Midwestern Monticello madness!

Previous thread here

Originally, Beth's disappearance and return was going to be tied to the Infinity story. Remember, she agreed to be a part of them if they kept Lujack safe. Largo thought he converted her.

Also, the original plans, and I know this personally, was to bring Lujack back in 1991 tied to Infinity. Here was the plan- Infinity was angry Beth betrayed them. They staged Lujack's death as payback. Beth "died", so Infinity let Lujack rot in a jail somewhere. Lujack is taken care of by an Infinity stooge. They bring him a newspaper. He thinks Beth is dead. He sees her wedding pics to Phillip. Shocked, he makes plans to escape and return to her. Then, they were going to take months to revisit this, giving Beth and Phillip some time together off camera, and seeing if Judi would return. When Judi said no to returning, it was dropped, and the Nick twin story hatched. I think Vincent hasn't shared this story because it involves Judi saying no to returning to the beloved role. This is why he acts like he doesn't have any memory of the story details, but does say they originally wanted Lujack back.

Pam Long was reportedly on board at one point, then didn't want Beth's return tied to Infinity. Once she was gone, the possibility of Infinity coming back, briefly, was open again.

Thanks for the details r2. It sounds like a storyline more appropriate for Days than Guiding Light.

R3 Infinity wasn't going to be around long. It was just a way to bring Lujack back, and he died because of them so it made sense to tie them to his return. Roger's return was more unbelievable. Lol

What did they say about Roger surviving the fall and where he was? Wasn't it that he was working with the CIA?

Yes, Roger was with the CIA.

The Infinity storyline FELT like it went on for infinity.

The timeline lines up for Judi and Vince's returns.

Vince first appeared as Nick on July 16, 1991.

Judi's first appearance as Pauline on AW was July 18, 1991, having left Days in February 1991.

So, sounds like P&G was lobbying for her to return to GL or to join AW and she finally opted for AW,

[quote]The Infinity storyline FELT like it went on for infinity.

In Infinity storyline was the most un-GL-like storyline I ever saw on the show.

Cloning Reva and Josh using doctored shaving cream to become obsessed with Annie both felt more realistic than Infinity.

The Dreaming Desth storyline was no prize, either. What was Pam Long smoking?

[quote] Josh using doctored shaving cream

After shave.

The Dreaming Death storyline was just a copy of the acclaimed Lassa Fever storyline Doug Marland had done on GH in 1978, with a few details changed.

It brought action to the hospital, brought Jim Reardon to town and killed off Lesley Ann.

Hmmmm I am a little surprised Judi didn’t return. She’s never said they asked, and no one leaked she was asked. But it fits. There’s no way they even dreamed of bringing Lujack back without Beth, and Judi as Beth. Even if they dropped Lujack coming back on their own without knowing Judi wouldn’t return, they would have wanted Vincent’s Nick and Judi’s Beth together. Such a shame. The timing was absolutely perfect. Judi seems to be one of the few people to have a very negative experience at Guiding Light, and Judi is not a controversial person who is known to be difficult. Quite the opposite.

Infinity was definitely one of the all tome worst GL stories.

Along with Sampson Girl and that whole Maryanne Caruthers mess.

What your favorite opening and theme song from a PG soap?

The best one of all time- My Guiding Light from 83-85. It was beautiful, grand, sweeping. Great Visuals went with it. It sold the show well.

I loved “The World Turns On and On” theme from 1981-1993 on “As the World Turns”. YEAH, the visuals may have looked as expensive as “Pigs in Space” but I loved it.

I was surprised when Alan Locher asked Judi if she watched Beth Chamberlin in the role and she said only once or twice (Judi, really? No one believes that), and she was playing a different character (Lorelei). She also admitted to being a little jealous, or protective, because she created the role and, while they were all laughing, it seemed like she basically said she felt she was Beth and didn’t want to see anyone else playing her. She then added Beth Chamberlin was great.

Judi came across like Kimberly McCollough who plays Robin Scorpio on GH.

They both originated the roles and feel/felt very protective of the character. Neither wanted/wants to play the character anymore but neither wants anyone else to play the character either. .

[quote] The Dreaming Desth storyline was no prize, either. What was Pam Long smoking?

My grandmother freaked out when they killed-off Hillary Bauer. She had been hoping for a pretty recast.

So Evans went from a sexually abused character on GL to playing a sexually abused character on DOOL.

And James Rebhorn played abuser Bradley Raines on GL to abuser Henry Lange on ATWT.

Rebhorn had been in just about everything, from soaps to small roles in feature films. When he turned up as Bradley I was already wondering where I'd seen him before. Good character actor.

[quote] The Dreaming Death storyline was no prize, either. What was Pam Long smoking?

I suspect that was forced on her by the network. It was radically different than the stories she had a bigger hand in writing.

The time traveling painting was a bridge too far. I stopped watching. Since the characters didn’t act like themselves anyway I saw no point. Then I heard Harley, a character that I disliked because they shoved her down our throats and she became a sanctimonious bore, was going to have SUPERPOWERS, I was glad I checked out. Though, apparently, the show wasn’t all that bad from ‘06 to ‘08 when I started watching it again knowing Phillip was coming back. I felt the show was very good the last year.

I’m not familiar with Evans character on DAYS. Was she abused as a teen/child?

I think Judi felt insecure to play Beth again and didn’t want to tarnish the beloved memories the fans had of her time on the show. Wouldn’t it have been a shocker for her to return in time for the wedding?

Adrienne (Judi's original DAYS character) was in many ways a Beth retread.

Paulina was her first non-suffering character.

Aren’t all soap characters, especially females, suffering? Even the villainesses suffer.

Breakdowns (descriptions) for soap characters are always "charismatic, ambitious, vulnerable, beautiful/handsome, charming, strong-willed, loving but will fight back when pushed especially when it comes to family."

It's never "boring. short. unattractive. dull. listless. acne prone.' annoying."

[quote] I’m not familiar with Evans character on DAYS. Was she abused as a teen/child?

Yes, Adrienne Johnson's story was that she ran away from home because her father, Duke, was abusive. Adrienne showed up in Salem looking for her brother, Steve Johnson (aka Patch). She wanted Steve's help to save their mother. When pervy dad found Adrienne, he beat and raped her. Adrienne found a gun and shot Duke dead, then blocked the event out. Steve initially took the rap for his sister.

Vincent must’ve been very special to Judi since she absolutely lights up when he’s around. She took a pic with he and Grant years ago on the DAYS set. They seemed happy. Then, they had those very awkward Locher Room interviews where Judi seemed completely uncomfortable with Grant, Krista, and Michael. Strange.

R19 do you think that’s really true, that deep down Judi doesn’t want anyone playing Beth, yet doesn’t want to revisit her? Though, that ship has sailed completely even if they brought back GL.

We've hashed the whole Judi/Beth thing out in several earlier threads. I can understand why she felt a bit proprietary about Beth - she created that character and went through some intense storylines.

Judi apparently fell out with a number of people at GL during her time there, so her experience there was soured a bit, likely the source of her discomfort in those Locher Room interviews w/the other Four Musketeers.

Judi had previously done a Locher Room with Vince and was perfectly comfortable with him.

It was the Four Musketeers gathering in the Locher Room where she was so clearly uncomfortable. But she di ease up a little bit toward the end. Not much but a little.

In that Four Musketeers gathering, Judi also indicated she hadn't followed the character of Beth once Beth Chamberlain took the role. Judi was surprised to know that Phillip and Beth had children together., saying something like, "Oh she had kids?"

I know P&G updated their openings in 1981 but “The Edge of Night” should never have changed that moody opening they used until about 1975.

R32 Which I think is absolute bullshit. She had to have followed her. I’m sure she at least read the soap publications.

I have to disagree, R33. This is a fabulous theme, mysterious and energetic:

Not bad r35 but I prefer the one at r33.

I like to theme that had lyrics.

R37 Wasn't that the closing theme?

Because I'm a dork, every time I go to Cincinnati, I hum that theme whenever I see what I call "The Edge of Night Building." It's still there.

R32 Barbara Crampton in her Locher Room interview didn't even know Guiding Light was cancelled. She seemed genuinely surprised when Alan told her the show wasn't stilll going.

EON is one of the only daytime soaps that, with a few teaks, could have been a fun prime time series in the 2000s-2010s,

People used to create fake opening credits for a reimagined series and post them on YouTube.

R35 I love that clip and that version.

Especially because Geraldine is on that clip with her fabulous fucking glasses. LOL

R41 Honestly, the concept could be used today. The networks all love their cop and law shows.

I'm either barking up the wrong tree, or bringing up the obvious, but did Judi & Vincent ever hookup in real life?

I tried watching this on YouTube. It sucked. It's like the main story is putting on some play. It won't stop.

For GL, I loved the theme from the late 70s, the one that was on for most of the 80s, and the "Hold On To Love" theme.

I really only ever liked the "As The World Turns On and On" theme for ATWT.

And I love the AW theme from the 70s. I still giggle at whoever said: when Vicky Wyndham farts, it sounds like the theme song to AW.

I know most of you do NOT like this theme, though I think it's kinda funny.

R44 I don't think so. Judi was dating GL's producer for most of her time there, which led to some of the tensions with costars.

*I should say, one of the producers (John Whitesell?) not the executive producers. Who was Gail Kobe, I think, for some of her run on GL.

[quote]one of the producers (John Whitesell?)

director

John Whitesell’s brother was the first husband of that whore Lauren Sanchez.

Yes, John Whitesell, and he was NOT at all good looking or hot. Judi was too goody for Vincent.

R40 Please say you’re joking. Please.

donald may as adam drake

I am serious r51. She was married to him when she started fucking Jeff Bezos.

[quote]Please say you’re joking. Please.

No. They were casually talking about the show, and then Barabra asks "so who's playing the part of Mindy today?". She seemed shocked and then admitted she had not kept up with developments in daytime.

She is one actress who has a varied career outside of the genre, so perhaps she never watched it again.

R54 But, it made international news. It was talked about extensively and 60 minutes even did a piece on it being canceled as it was that big of a deal. She’s in entertainment so she should have heard Guiding Light was canceled. I’m sure every major star heard the news since it was big showbiz news.

I mean, does Victoria Wyndham know about Beyond the Gates? My point is, some people can't be expected to know everything, I guess.

Yes, John Whitesell was, shall we say, not a looker.

Which must have fed resentment of Judi.....or a possible belief from costars that Judi got so much attention - and the show's first ever Emmy award for acting - because she was fucking the director.

John nor Judi controlled the Emmy process nor Beth’s immense popularity, so I don’t think that was it. Beth was a major, popular character that was going to get a lot screen time due to that and Pam Long.

Keep in mind that Judi was 18 years old when she was cast as Beth. GL was her first major acting job. She won her daytime Emmy at age 19, just a few days shy of her 20th birthday.

Moving to NYC to join GL was her first time away from her family for any significant period of time. She had never seen snow before moving to the East Coast from California.

She likely viewed 30-year-old John Whitesell as a father figure, at least when they were first getting together. She likely also needed guidance and mentoring which Whitesell was probably happy to provide.

Beth was one of Pam’s favorite creations and hated how they wrote her when she took maternity leave.

John Whitesell's gay younger brother, Christopher, was a writer for multiple soaps over the years, including AW, ATWT, GL, GH and Y&R.

His most recent stint was serving as co-HW of Days with Gary Tomlin from 2012-15.

I wanted to add there is zero doubt Pam had complete say so in how Beth was written out in 1986.

To clarify, because I think some posters have misunderstood:

I wasn't saying that *I* believed what I posted at R57. But I've heard the gossip numerous times over the years that her relationship with Whitesell generated some resentment and/or that was the trigger, specifically, for conflict with Grant, Krista and Michael.

R63 I think the general consensus is you’re correct. Judi got more attention from the director,and it wasn’t always good attention. We all know her screen time was due to popularity. John couldn’t tell Pam to write more or less for Beth.

Another rumor is since Judi might have been asked back to GL by P&G in ‘91, that she was offered another P&G show, AW, in order to allow her a fresh character and show to eventually bring her back as Beth later on. That tracks for me. I DO think that was the original plan after she said no in ‘91. Give B & P time off screen happy, then bring Beth back to see Nick. Alas, 99 HW and EP changes later, changed that. Plus, I think everyone knew AW was ending a few years prior and she wanted to stick it out. Either way, timing wasn’t right.

would CBS have advertised Judi's return as the REAL Beth is returning?

R65 No, lol, but it would’ve been huge news.

So, timeline if I’m hearing this correctly:

Late 90 or early 91:

P&G asks Judi to return to GL. She declines, so they make a deal with her to give her a role on AW with the understanding she’ll return to GL once they’ve played out Nick’s return with Alexandra/Mindy, and given Phillip and Beth time to be happy off screen.

Mid-90s:

GL goes through major behind the scenes turmoil. Multiple plans are scrapped, including possibly Judi’s return.

97-ish:

After all the turmoil at GL, and Judi being happy at AW, and knowing it is ending, she decides to stay on until the end. GL doesn’t want to wait on her, so they ask Beth Chamberlin to return as Beth because Grant has already returned as Phillip.

I think this is extremely likely how things played out.

I looked up Evan’s online and my god, she had a really rough few years in 2019-2020.

What did her son die of?

Actually, I think it was Judi's weight gain that nixed her return as Beth. That was mid 90s, correct?

I think they were waiting on Judi which is why Chamberlin never returned for Lillian's breast cancer story or to see Nick. The prices are falling together.

R67 No one knows.

I have to say, I've been on soap boards since the AOL days and posted here since around 2010 or so, but I have *never* before heard any of the chat about Judi being invited back to GL in 1991. Not ever.

I'm not saying it's untrue, but I've never heard a peep of it before.

I know Grant has been quite clear over the years in his preference for Beth Chamberlain. Of course, Grant and Judi had something special on screen. Beth C came very close to it and they had their own great chemistry, but it wasn't quite the original flavor.

I think Beth Chamberlain was one of the better soap recasts.

Did Draper Scott ever get his ass eaten?

Beth C and Rick Hearst were both phenomenal.....from around the same era.

Yeah, Judi's son died (reason unknown, though OD is a likely guess) and then she had COVID and fell off a horse and broke her back or something like that. It was a few years of hell for her.

Beth Chamberlin is a great actress, but she didn't get Beth. She just wanted good juicy storylines.

Beth chamberlin should get hired away by body and soul.

I liked Beth C. as Beth, as written by Pam Long. Thought she was a fantastic recast.

The Beth that returned in 1997, as played by Beth C., was like a completely different character.

One of the great mysteries to me was why Beth did not return to help her mother during Lillian's breast cancer storyline. Yes, she would have run into Nick while in town, but the Beth Rains the Pam Long created and wrote would not have absent during her mother's time of need. All the subsequent writers failed to capture the subtle essences of Beth.

R77 I think it was written as some bullshit like she was on probation in AZ so she couldn't come to Springfield. * eyeroll*

The Beth that came back in 1997 was changed, for sure.

I can sort of see how Beth would have become jaded if she and Phillip split up. I didn't have a huge issue with Beth in 1997ish. I mean, Pollyanna Beth didn't have a long shelf life, I think, and it made Phillip/Beth scenes more interesting.

I didn't care for the whole Lorelai thing. But I could have dealt with almost anything EXCEPT for Beth fucking and marrying Alan. That, I could not understand or ever accept.

R74 The cause of her son's death is public information and is at the L.A. County Medical Examiner's website.

Sadly, as expected. I think the soap mags/sites just agreed not to say anything publicly.

It's very sad and a lot of young people everywhere have been killed by fentanyl.

Somebody on the other thread, and in other threads past, have commented on how ATWT in the 80s would fade to commercials with no music. It was a minor thing but I loved it and how it distinguished it from other shows.

I wish there was a way to watch the Serena Faraday story from EON and the Jingles the Clown story on “Somerset”.

Hell, I’d even like to see that gothic “Lisa at the inn” story from As the World Turns.

I am currently engrossed in the Summer of 1966 Search for Tomorrow. It's good stuff and they manage to do a lot in 15 minutes. The Patti/Andrea/Len Whiting story is the big focus right now. I do love the little snippets of Stu and Marge, who just had a new baby, and serve mostly as recap, but they're great characters. The Andrea Whiting character is also very good.

Larkin died on September 29, 2016 from complications of a heart attack, suffered five days before on his 62nd birthday.

Mrs. Goutman, Marcia McCabe was dining with Larkin when he had his fatal heart attack. She witnessed him croaking.

No wonder she was a drunk

The Willows storyline (and several 1979 ATWT episodes) are on You Tube. It’s hard to follow it because they aren’t numbered.

Thanks, R88!

I want to see more Jingles The Clown.

I think soaps could've done more stories like Jingles and Brent/ Marian instead of Eterna, Ice Princesses, Clones, Aliens, Demon Possession.

Brent / Marian worked because the acting was phenomenal( it drove Frank Beatty insane much like Sonni/Solita drove Michelle Forbes insane). That's too notch writing when your actors are struggling mentally to play the character. Brent as Marian could be hilarious, intentionally, and terrifying. His murder of Nadine, their confrontation, is hard to watch because Brent is legit scary and Nadine's slow realization that she's in mortal danger is so well written and acted.

I was upset when he killed Nadine.

I thought Frank went insane because he was in love with Rick Hearst.....not because of the demands of the role.

R35, that opening reminds me of the penthouse that Draper and April lived in (I guess today they'd be called "Drapil"). The elevator door opened right into the apartment; CBS Sunday Morning made a big deal about a set on the Gates doing that.

Today's the big day; I wish them well.

R92 That's rumor. He's said the intense emotions he had to play, the darkness, took its toll on him mentally.

I never liked Nadine, but her death was brutal.

Beaty was in unrequited love. He loved Rick Hearst and it was not returned. Alas, the crazy.

I saw some GLs you YouTube from summer of ‘86- Judi Evans was styled A LOT like they eventually styled Beth Chamberlin circa ‘97 onward. You could definitely see the resemblance there. I did a double take. They even had Judi dressed like they dressed Beth C.

Wasn’t Nadine just killed off and her body never discovered or anything as she was leaving town?

R97 They eventually found it I believe. Brent was brutal. They should’ve brought Brent and Annie and Sonni back as recasts, if anyone could’ve filled their shoes. I don’t count that one Annie with boring Sygney. I mean, they kept Sheila and Phyllis around for the Bell soaps and it works.

That fat bastard Laibson didn’t like Jean Carol so he killed her off.

I didn’t like her, either. I didn’t like her acting.

I liked Jean Carol but she was better in small doses.

100% they should've brought Sonni back when Annie as played by Watros was gone. Or legit recast Annie.

Sonni could've caused all sorts of mayhem with every one thinking she was cured. GL always lost most of their great actors to prime time. Shows like YR kept most of theirs.

It would have been something if Josh and Reva had confronted Annie in the asylum, and the psychologist there was none other than Sonni.

R103 I love your idea! Too bad the writers didn't care about GL history. Imagine! GL could've had a permanent Shelia/Phyllis thing going. Sonni could've been psychologically manipulating Annie!

I'm trying to think who might have made a good Sonni recast.

R105 Maybe an unknown since she was an unknown.

Anyone think of someone who could've been a good Sonni recast around 1999-ish? Aunt Liz?

Facially Sydney Penny would have been similar, but she is way shorter than Michelle is and also way younger than Robert Newman or Kim Zimmer (who played her mother on SB).

Jordana Brewster looks a lot like Michelle now, but again, much younger.

We need an actress who would stay on soaps like K Brown as Shelia or whatsherface as Phyllis.

Susan Walters, currently Diane Jenkins on Y&R, would have been able to go up against The Kimmer and hold her own if they had brought back Sonni in 1999.

She had the soap experience having been on Loving as Lorna Forbes. However, at that point Susan was living in LA and working fairly steadily in prime time. So, I don't know if she would have wanted to return to soaps and to New York in 1999.

What about Finola Hughes?

R110 She was based in LA, BUT to go toe to toe with La Zimmer? Maybe.

She was in New York by the late 90s, on AMC.

OH OH OH OKLAHOMA where the wind comes sweeping down the plain.

Lisby had the weirdest name. Lesby. Was she?

Didn't watch TEXAS much except to notice Paige's character evolve.

When Y&R decided to bring back Diane Jenkins in 2001, bringing back the previous actress in the part (whatever her name was) did not receive any serious consideration because Michelle Stafford would have eaten her alive. Susan Walters was considered a strong enough actress to go up against Stafford and thus she was cast.

I see no reason Walters couldn't have gone up against Zimmer.

Yes, Finola would’ve been perfect.

I actually think that lookswise, Marie Wilson might have been good as Sonni.

She sucked as Meg on ATWT, though.

Whoever would have had to be able to go toe to toe with Zimmer and hold their own. Few can. Imagine a lesser actress as Sonni or Annie? It would've collapsed storywise.

Signy would have made a better Sonni than she did Annie

We lucked out having Michelle and Cynthia opposite Kim.

I am shocked Kim hasn’t done more guest appearances. She can cry like no one can. She’d be fantastic on L&O- any of them. She’d be fantastic in a movie role where she played a bit, though pivotal, part where she had to cry a lot. What a waste. She’s also a great comedic actress.

Interesting bit of news about Victoria Platt, who played Vicky Spaulding on GL and married fellow GL star Terrell Tilford.......

She and Terrell got divorced and she just got married to a female WNBA coach (!)

R121. stories like that give me hope the pendulous one will get a divorce at 65 or 66 or however old he is and propose marriage to me.

I'm not into size but I just don't want to use his real name in case he has a google search on himself. (Probably doesn't).

There's gay, bi, tri, and actor; actors can be attracted to ANYONE.

R121, she's wearing WHITE!!!!!

I was 15 when I started watching ATWT and even then, I preferred the vets. I was weird that way. I had nothing against the teens and Marland gave them all pretty good stories but I just loved the older characters.

I got a kick out of Lisa. Eileen Fulton wasn’t the best actress but I thought she was fun and loved how she always started her sentences with “now”…. “Now, Lucinda…” or “Now, now. Bob…”

I only know Terrell Tilford from his OLTL stint. Terrible actor but good looking guy.

R123 😆

[quote] stories like that give me hope the pendulous one will get a divorce at 65 or 66 or however old he is and propose marriage to me.

He knows you're out there waiting for him.

You and your cavernous-enough hole that can accommodate his pendulosity.

R127, I WISH!

Seriously, I have my own pendulousness waiting for him.

[quote]I was 15 when I started watching ATWT and even then, I preferred the vets.

R124 I was like that when I started watching Guiding Light in the late 70s (although I was younger than 15). I really loved Alan/Elizabeth/Justin/Jackie storyline. Roger/Holly, Ed/Rita (LOVED Rita). Ross/Carrie. The Dobsons and Marland were really great writers.

But then Kelly Nelson and Tim Werner appeared and I really wanted to be the meat in their sandwich...

r124, my favorite Lisa is Lisa ON THE WARPATH! (4:42)

I thought you all needed a little pick me up from the one, the only...

I’m watching The Traitors, and one of the contestants keeps calling Ivar Mountbatten “Iva,” which makes me think of Iva Snyder, who was so good at lying she would make an awesome Traitor.

Cecile? Is she here?

Quick, everyone hide. Turn off the lights!

I think early Nola would have been a better Traitor because she was a sociopath.

You've all forgotten me?

You've turned me into a suburban JOKE!

Maureen,

If you were a tad more interesting, we might have fetched you and your car from the ditch.

I liked Maureen but she suffered from turtle-face.

huh.

Maureen was a case of you don't know what you got until it's gone.

Though, she was so dowdy. You finally saw sparks with her and Roger, then you saw how great an actress she was in her best story- the affair. I think, after seeing how great she was during those final weeks they should've given her a "can come back from the dead" exit. Or kept her on. She really showed something special those final weeks.

Parker was saddled with Peter Simon’s drippy, mopey Ed as her husband. I don’t understand the logic behind replacing Mart Hulswit with him. Yes, Hulswit wasn’t 25 and he was chunky-but you could see why Holly and Rita were drawn to him-he seemed like a protector.

Simon’s Ed was weak and wimpy, replacing him with Van Vleet didn’t improve matters.

Maureen Bauer was so fucking BORING! Is it any surprise that the focus group wanted to off her?

Only aware of bits and pieces-Was Draper Scott on the 'The Doctors' a 30 min soap?

Draper was on The Edge of Night

There was a reason why in the opening credits the image of Ed and Maureen was a photograph and not a moving picture (e.g. Vanessa opening the door; Harley dancing). They were supposed to be the STABLE couple of the show.

Maureen died; Buzz came on shortly thereafter.

Do the math. A longtime GL cast member was cut so that TPTB could bring on a person they used to work with. For the next 16 years, we were subjected to Buzz's hammy over the top style instead of there being a warm, loving matriarchal figure.

The focus group didn't want to off Maureen; the producers did to make room for Santa Barbara actors.

I watched GL for about a year in 1988-89. I only stopped as I got a part -time job. When I started, there was every indication that Maureen and Fletcher would have an affair but it kind of fizzled. Maureen and Ed separated anyway.

[quote]For the next 16 years, we were subjected to Buzz's hammy over the top style instead of there being a warm, loving matriarchal figure.

And Justin Deas got rid of (gave to the movers) the three Emmys he won for that role of Buzz when he and his wife moved to a smaller apartment.

Likewise, he threw away the two Emmys he won for Santa Barbara.

R147 What an ass! He could've auctioned them for charity, or not submitted himself. Jerk.

If I knew what Ellen Parker was capable of acting wise I would've been Team Maureen before they killed her off. The real kick in the teeth was the lack of bringing back her family for the funeral. We got a "Bye Annabelle and Tony. See ya, Bea!" screamed out the front door.

[quote]The real kick in the teeth was the lack of bringing back her family for the funeral. We got a "Bye Annabelle and Tony. See ya, Bea!" screamed out the front door.

Well, problem was Lisa Brown was on contract at ATWT, Michael Tylo was on contract at Y&R and Greg Beecroft was apparently turned off by daytime after his very brief role as playing Duke Lavery on GH in 1990.

Meanwhile Harley Jane Kozak had moved on to prime time and big screen movies as had Michael Woods.

Jill Farren Phelps seemed to have a quota of no more than 3 women over 40 with a storyline on her shows. Every other older woman was killed off, written off or reduced to recurring appearances at the holidays.

thx R143-It's all coming back to me now. "Edge of Night' oh yes.

The dude that played Draper now works as a ticket taker in a baseball park.

I’m sure ATWT would have lent out Lisa Brown for a day, and Kassie DePaiva hadn’t started at OLTL yet, so she was probably available.

Despite her resting bitch face I liked Maureen, I just think GL never knew how to write for her. When she broke up briefly w/Ed when Holly came back she was exciting. Her friendship with Roger had potential.

The thing is, with Parker's theater career she probably would have been willing to go to recurring if they needed to loosen up money for other actors. GL needed that talk-to character and it suffered by not having one again.

“My Girl” had come out the year before, with Anna Chlumsky, Macaulay Culkin and DL fave Jamie Lee Curtis.

Were they trying to emulate that story with Michelle Bauer-motherless girl coming of a age with a clueless father?

Can you imagine JFP as the Executive Producer of As the World Turns?

She would have introduced a new mob family and had Nancy, Lisa, Lily and Ellen shot to death in a hostage situation at Memorial Hospital, , as punishment for their portrayers bitching to Soap Opera Digest for not having a storyline.

Then she would have had Kim and Bob recast and played by Robin Mattson and Jed Allan, and had Tom and Chris Hughes murdered by the mob.

Not Nancy, Lisa and Lily!

JFP would have killed off that hussy CZP.

Was Justin Deas hammy as Tom on ATWT? I remember watching it some when I was a kid (loved Margaret Colin as Margo)) but done remember any hamminess. When did that start? On Santa Barbara?

R159 I asked my mom and she said yes he was. She couldn’t stand him.

He was definitely hammy on SB.

He and Zimmer didn't work great together on GL in part because their respective HAM! performances canceled each other out.

Zimmer was nowhere near as hammy. She could be, but he was hammy 90% of the time.

Watch Deas’ scenes from ATWT on You Tube. He’s shouting to the rooftops. I actually think he was more subtle on Santa Barbara. He was an odd choice for Tom Hughes.

I would have licked Coop's shitter.

Coop was so hot. I may be in the minority , but he and Beth were a great couple. They worked.

Justin Deas may have been an OTT actor but he was perfect as Keith on”Santa Barbara”. He and Robin Mattson as Gina were hilarious and fun which is why it made no sense to have Gina go blind and reform her with none other than Lujack himself, Vincent Irizzary.

Irizzary is another one, like Martha Byrne, who disappointed me by being such a Right Wing stooge.

Omg I watched the spoof Guiding Plight the cast did. It's genius. The fake commercials are hilarious. This is better than SNL any day, or even Soap Dish.

R168, is it on YouTube? Please share if you are able.

R169 Type in Guiding Plight into the search bar on YouTube. It pops right up. It's brilliant.

December 1988 ATWT.

This was definitely one of the quieter and boring periods of Marland era ATWT - but interesting to see.

Martha is still playing Lily here. Quick glimpse of Hank Eliot, as well as Richard Burgi as one of the Harrington brothers (I remember little about that story).

I'd forgotten that Cal was Rod/Josh's father.

GASP! That episode also lists someone named Betty Low as playing Nancy!

Was Helen out of vinegar for those episodes?

Helen was walking toward Colleen Zenk’s dressing room, to confront her again for her trampy ways, when she tripped on a cord, fell, and broke her ankle.

She told the producers she wouldn’t sue if she got a storyline. That’s why they had her teaching illiterate Lauryn Hill to read, and had poor Dan McCloskey diagnosed with Alzheimer’s.

Colleen was hardly trampy.

Mark P was sticking it in anything with a pulse. As was Michael Swan.

Felicia Minei Behr died.

Bye, Felicia.

Felicia had success at AMC, but she was a disaster at ATWT. Bye, Felicia.

FMB did bring back Scott DeFreitas, and the episodes dealing with Kathy Hays’ 25th anniversary were strong. The rest of it was meh.

The question is will Martha appear on The Locher Room tribute to FMB?

If I remember correctly, Dr. Eve Guthrie was the one who came out of the OR to inform the gathered family that GL’s Maureen had died. I always thought it could’ve prettily easily been explained that Roger had Eve fake the death and had Maureen whisked off to some private hospital or whatnot. He could’ve been pulling strings to keep her away from Ed.

Yep, r180, but they never seemed to even contemplate it. They bring everyone else back from the dead- Beth and Reva twice!

FMB liked me - she really liked me!

I could see them doing that with Maureen but would she have left Michelle?

R183 Yes, in a coma.

My problem would be would Roger really let Michelle think her mom was dead?

I always thought they could have brought her back as a twin that Bea either give up for adoption or didn't know she had. The twin could have been the extreme anti-Maureen - from the opposite side of the "tracks".

R186 But the void left was her warmth, moral center.

I'm watched the 1992 Daytime Emmys recently. Judi Evans gave Maeve Kinkaid an enthusiastic standing Ovation when she won. So, she didn't have an issue with her.

Not at all P&G, but damn, I wish any soap anywhere was as well written and pulling from history as this was.

R189 I didn’t recognize any of those actors. What was the show?

R190 EastEnders.

Just a very well written and acted scene. Imagine Nancy Hughes giving everyone a stiff kick in the ass before she died and you'll get the idea.

I'm watch Dynasty for the 1st time(we were a CBS soap family) and There is a character named Phillip Spaulding lol

I happened to see a post on Reddit about two years ago about Sherry Stringfield. When I searched her name afterwards, a lot of posts came up about her. All fairly recent. It seems a lot of people got into ER during Covid who hadn’t watched the initial run. Of course, they were floored when she left the show suddenly. They asked if it was a huge deal because they were devastated as she was a fan favorite. The replies were all “OMG was it ever a huge deal.” Many said they cried when she left. Many had huge crushes on her from reading the many posts.

It brought me to DL and the many discussions about Sherry leaving her roles just as they were red hot- Guiding Light (top 3 or 4 during summer ‘92) NYPD Blue (#1 show), ER ( #1 show and cultural phenomenon). Rereading their reactions brings me to my being flabbergasted she left two back to back #1 shows. She left behind a literal fortune. As they said on Reddit, she won the lottery twice, and threw away her tickets on purpose.

I wanted to add there were dozens of Sherry Stringfield threads. They could not get over her leaving. Someone would post in 2020, then each year until a few months ago. Each poster would come jaw on the floor asking “WHY” 🤣

A huge Blind Item from Enty I’d never heard of was mentioned. It said Noah Wyle sexually harassed her/ was unpleasant towards her on set which caused her to leave and ER covered it up because the show was so huge. Many, and I agree, don’t believe it for many reasons. Sherry is tough, for one.

I’d forgotten how popular her character was and how huge the ratings were when she left, and then returned.

R189, what would be a P&G equivalent? Bert telling off her family and tossing her prosthetic leg at them before hobbling up the stairs?

R195 Yes, that would have been a good example!

I think the Capwell dinner on SB came close to that kind of vibe. A good character driven moment.

Next Wednesday (3/12) the guests in The Locher Room will be Suzy Cote (Samantha Marler) and Jocelyn Seagrave (Julie Camaletti).

Is Suzy Cote a lez? Morgan mentioned it.

Not sure....I don't remember Morgan saying that but I suppose if she is, she'll discuss it in her episode.

R185, Roger had done worse.

R194, that's awful if true; but didn't Sherry have a habit of walking off hit shows? NYPD BLUE.

R201 I’m not being rude, but the poster spelled out how she left a red hot GL, where her character was pivotal in the hottest storyline, and not one but two #1 rated primetime shows, both were cultural phenomenons, with ER being so huge, and her character was so popular, she left just as they negotiated gargantuan raises guaranteed for 5 years. She walked away from tens of millions. Maybe even over $100 million. She did it knowing her career was DOA for years due to a non-compete clause.

I do NOT believe for one second she left over something Noah did. Sherry is tough. She spelled out why she left- she didn’t want that life.

R200 Hang it up, honey.

R203, dear God, was Charita talented to pull that off.

It’s unfortunate Charita died when she did. I bet Bert would have had amazing scenes in the early 90s with great grandson Alan Michael; Blake, who was raised for a time as her granddaughter; and Bridget.

And she would have kicked Ed and Lillian with her good leg for hurting Maureen.

R205 Not Lillian, but Ed for sure.

Charita was a very good actress. She had presence. Her void was felt for sure.

Stringfield’s reason at the time for leaving ER was that she wanted to be with her boyfriend more.

R207 She did say that, but she also said the work schedule was too intense, and she realized it wasn't for her. I think she'd have been happy doing character work instead of lead, which is a shame. She had something huge to land two huge roles back to back.

It's bonkers any way you look at it. Bonkers. It's almost incomprehensible.

Very interesting......this has to be better than that Andy Cohen abortion from a few years ago.

R208 A weekly show like ER has a schedule that probably makes a soap schedule look like a part time job in comparison. As much as Katie Heigl annoys the shit out of me I'd probably go mad if I was working 18 hours a day 7 days a week too, for ten months of the year or something like that.

Interesting that Sherry left and returned.....never really watched ER so don't know if her schedule was less crazy the second time around?

Surprised Locher hasn't asked her to come onto the Locher Room yet. (Or did he and I just forgot?)

R210 There’s no doubt he’s asked her on. It’s surprising she hasn’t gone on. She seems like she’d be fun. He may have a hard time getting her. She has no social media that I’m aware of.

I want to personally write Mary Kay Adams and plead for her to consider an appearance. Beg, even.

Sherry was scheduled to be on the Locher Room tribute to Michael Zaslow, but pulled out the day of the tribute.

If I recall correctly, she was also supposed to appear on another GL group interview. Maybe the Jerry Ver Dorn one. But she cancelled at the last minute.

Sherry is still unreliable. Jeezus

Sherry’s weird.

Sherry hated Juliana Margulies, who basically hazed other women on all her sets. So she left but then came back to ER when Juliana left. It was always the plan when she negotiated her first exit.

R216 Sherry ain’t letting anyone push her around. I say that’s false.

Going back to the start of this thread, what kind of character was Raven on “Edge of Night”? Was she just there as a romantic lead or did she get to take part in the mystery and crime stories?

R218, there’s a ton of Raven/EON on YouTube. Raven is a great character who really runs the gamut. I’ve been watching 1982/1983 for the first time.

Mark Arnold donated all of his episodes to a man with a great channel. (Link Below)

Charita Bauer must have had a great, dry sense of humor. There’s a great story (I can’t remember the details, but I bet someone here will) about her making a snarky backstage comment about a child actor.

I remember a Jerry verDorn interview where she said something about Sherry Stringfield walking away from ER, etc. I think he stopped himself mid-comment, but the subtext was that he liked her but thought she was nuts to deuce.

*he said something…

Who remembers the prime time “Guiding Light” TV movie where they took a Mary Higgins Clark novel and shoehorned GL characters into it?

The Cradle Will Fall

Wasn't Lauren Hutton the star? Leslie Ann was there but I don't think she opened her mouth. How much later did she die of The Dreaming Death?

I didn't mean to imply Leslie Ann was the only one there but her presence surprised me.

I remember The Cradle Will Fall. I was young and came unglued that Cedars didn’t look the way it did on Guiding Light.

Mary!

It came out in 1983. Youtube has it.

Raven was a stupid name for a soap character. There, I typed it,

Raven was a more interesting character before they turned her into a romantic lead. Some of her best scenes were with Geraldine. Also, Raven was a self-given nickname. Her real name is Charlotte.

Geraldine Saxon came across as such a bull dyke. So did Ada Hobson. They could have been scissor sisters.

I loved both of those characters, dykes or not.

Me too. And Holland Taylor as Denise Cavanaugh was delicious in her all too brief stint.

R219. the ONE tape he didn't was the climax of the story where Nancy was held at the plastic surgery clinic against her will.

There's audio and there's enough to bring back the memories but I soooo wanted to see that whole thing. Brilliant story.

Just posted on YT: a quite odd black and white home movie of the GL set in 1980. Who knew Dr. Whatsername played the piano?

Millette Alexander became a concert pianist after she left GL.

Millette Alexander is still with us. I’ve begged Alan Locher to get her on his show but he isn’t interested.

How old would she be? I kind of remember her. Sarah... what was her name? Didn't some nasty older guy nearly murder her?

She was a pretty, older lady, reminded me of my Dad's sister, but they had a bit of a Kim Hunter in Planet of the Apes look in the upper lip.

She’s in her 90s. Sara was one of the show’s main heroines before the Dobsons took over. She was friends with Mike and Ed, had a relationship with Justin, and married Roget’s father. Her son TJ was played by Kevin Bacon.

She’s one of those soap characters who dominates the show’s storylines for years, then disappears, rarely referenced again.

Millette Alexander was once married to Oscar Hammerstein II’s son.

Locker’s a fool. She must have tons of interesting stories to tell.

Sarah McIntyre was Tim aka TJ Werner’s mother. Tim was played by Kevin Bacon and, I think, Chris Marcantel? He was a wuss and an alcoholuc and they quite rightly wrote him out.

She was the Gail Adamson Baldwin of Springfield.

I loved them both.

She did a hilarious turn in Guiding Plight where Sara's voice overs were heard by everyone.

Unfortunately Alan's interest is limited to people he worked with or actors/performers he himself likes.

Adam came to Springfield after Roger came back from the dead-did he mention Sarah? I can’t remember.

Another actress that I begged Locher to get is Beulah Garrick - Mrs. Renfield. She’s 103!!! Still alive. She has long outlasted Nola & Quint. When she was 101, I saw an article in a Long Island newspaper about her and she still had all her marbles and a great memory. She loves talking to people. Locher was not interested. Such a wasted opportunity. I can’t post the article for some reason but looking up Beulah Pollock East Hampton Star should bring up the article.

I loved her r244. Like the actress who played Bea Reardon, she appeared in commercials that aired during the CBS soaps before appearing in them.

Is there no other soap blogger we can get to do a podcast or video chat?

Let's try to persuade someone here...

R244 how do you know Locher?

I don’t know personally know Locher. Thank god. He’s annoying. lol I contacted him through Facebook and his youtube pages.

Locher created a wonderful thing for old soap fans. I try not to say mean things, but he has zero soap knowledge, except for a tiny bubble from a certain time frame and certain soaps. He's interviewed some fascinating people, legends of the genre, but he couldn't properly interview any of them, even the ones he had a good relationship with, because of his limited understanding of the genre in its entirety.

Locher doesn’t do his homework. Quite often, he doesn’t even know the basics of some of his guests. His response is always “someone in the chat will tell us”. Idiot.

Alan should have a cohost for interviews he doesn’t know well

Who in the soap press could do it?

Jonathan Reiner, who worked at Soap Weekly. He was a guest on one of his shows last year.

Excuse me, Soap Opera Weekly.

WHET Michael Logan?

Good question R255. I think he's been retired for a few years.

Anybody watch GL when Jobeth Williams was on? My grandma knew she'd make it big.

Many think she was robbed of an Oscar nom for Poltergeist. I agree. Her scene when Carol Anne's spirit goes through her is masterful.

She was the heart and soul of Poltergeist. She nailed every scene. The scene in the kitchen where she shows the chair moving on its own to her husband is hysterical. Her reaction is perfect.

Queen Logan still posts on 'x formerly known as twitter.' I do not do the twitter, so don't follow.

His handle is: TVGMLogan.

Queen Logan is still around. He queens from time to time.

In the 80s, his column, Logan’s Outtakes, in “Soap Opera Digest” always mentioned his wife. I was 15 and fell for it.

The same author of the Ryan's Hope book has published a book about Texas.

r262 Thanks for letting me know about the Texas book. I just ordered it. Can't wait to read it.

Now, I really wish someone would do a similar book about Edge of Night. So few people from that show still alive . . .

I always remember that Michael Logan wrote in his column that he preferred little Robin Scorpio on GH when she was in a coma.

R261, she really does exist

[quote]his column, Logan’s Outtakes, in “Soap Opera Digest” always mentioned his wife. I was 15 and fell for it.

Rock Hudson was married to a woman. So was Leonard Bernstein.

Is that Christian Bale in OP’s pic???

But r266 weren’t they prominent celebrities who needed to pretend to be straight as part of their celebrity?

I love both Reiner and Logan. They’re the real deal.

I met Logan at a Paley Center event. He was so friendly and nice.

So far the Texas book isn't on Kindle. Alas.

Michael Logan possibly being a heterosexual has me SHOOK.

Logan took so many digs at the stars back when TVGM was the only mainstream pub that covered soaps; the shows were held hostage by him.

But they went back to him every single time. I'm not saying Marcy Walker didn't trash B&B -- she said something about if she thought she were 'going back to soaps' she'd have stayed in LA, done B&B and hoped nobody watched as opposed to going to NY and taking on the role of (the disastrous) Tangie Hill on GL.

Logan printed it. He had every right too but I'm sure many actors feel there's an understanding of what's on and off the record. 100% her fault. So, who does she talk to a few years later when she reprises Liza? Yep. Logan.

Now, we have actors on twitter saying all kinds of stupid stuff. Like Kate Mansi telling fans who don't like Kristina to fast forward.

There IS no soap press anymore. There's only reposting and praising of BTG.

JoBeth Williams is in this clip.

I’m a journalist.

La Logan walked so Nelson Branco could run.

I can't believe Moo Moo Hinsey is still standing.

R275. The print edition of Digest is dead and they have the audacity to put out special issues that are 90 to 95% reprints of past special issues from only a few years ago.

What does that current All Time Couples issue tell us that we don't know or haven't read 1,000 times before.

Caroline's column is passe - who even bothers to read it when there are a zillion opinions out there on social.

Steve, Bradford, Maurice...others all have their own channels and platforms to promote themselves and the genre.

It's been said before and I'm sure this take is as fresh as stale chewing gum but.....that Carolyn Hinsey gossip thread when she was fired years ago is still a hoot and a half.

Digest ran a nasty operation and that thread exposed a lot

The whole industry learned what a hell hole it was

The little people got their shots in

You all sound fat.

[quote]Caroline's column is passe - who even bothers to read it when there are a zillion opinions out there on social.

Carolyn.

Here's the Jossip column from August 2008 on Carolyn Hinsey's firing if anyone wants to revisit it.

Both Carolyn and Stephanie are cunts. Stephanie sure slept around.

R281 wow, quite a stroll down memory lane!

The one person I know who actually admitted posting in that thread was Alan Carter, who used to work at Digest and then worked for one of the LA TV stations for years.

I'd all but forgotten the rumor about Ricky Paull hooking up with Rick Hearst.

And reply 167 in that Jossip thread is almost definitely Marlena Delacroix.

Oh my, at 248. Missed this one before.

[quote] Tom Eplin also cruised men. Think shower in locker room, "flash with clear intent", verbal follow-up. This would have been back when he was still fine (around the time of his AW debut). Upstate New York.

352, one of many under the hood gossip bits about Hillary Bailey Smith over the years.

[quote] yeah, i liked hillary smith too when i was in high school and watching her on ATWT. then i was 'lucky' enough to interview her for the mags and she was…abrasive. And then once i saw her comraderie with CH (Cat Hickland) I knew who and what she was.

That Jossip thread got over 2,000 responses. As more and more fans learned of the thread's existence, some of those posts got really outrageous. Hard to believe them.

But those early responses -- the first 600-700 -- when it was just a thread with soap reporters and Digest employees posting, are some nice insider gossip.

898 on that thread, a poster named "Donna Love" - not sure if it's true but it's a fab story

[quote] Back in 2002 Joan Collins joined the cast of GL for a limited run under much publicity and a hefty salary. Well, Joan had it in her contract that she had press approval regarding who could interview her. Collins' representatives spoke to Paul Rauch, GL's EP at the time, to figure out the publicity schedule. Rauch listed off a number of people to speak to and Joan did all the press like the pro she is. The one person Rauch didn't recommend: Carolyn Hinsey. To everyone's surprise, Joan had a sit down with Hinsey and within 10 minutes shattered Hinsey's fragile self worth, Joan's opening line to Hinsey: "Well you're certainly not Beth Chamberlin are you dear?" The next day a bottle of Dom Perignon was waiting for Joan in her dressing room from Paul Rauch with a simple tagline on the card: "Well Played"

I know I commented on that thread a few times : )

R287 you're right, once it really became a fan pile-on it sort of got tedious, but there's real dirt in the first chunk of replies.

R262, thanks for posting. I’d been waiting for that book but didn’t know it had been published.

I ordered a copy, but do wish it was on Amazon.

I read the Ryan’s Hope book twice. I also really loved the One Life to Live oral history.

I wish there similar books on GL, ATWT, EON, etc.

r290 I ordered my copy on Amazon yesterday. It's due to arrive on Thursday. I'll be posting a review of the book soon since Texas was one of my favorite shows.

Here's the page on Amazon.

Video of SFT backstsge in 1966. Further evidence of Mary Stuart dripping with cuntiness,

Didn't Mary Stuart say in her book that she liked booze and pills? She sort of had that "look" like she was a heavy drinker.

Mary is so cunty you can tell even without sound!

I love the "CBS eye" drapes.

Does anybody have a link to thread referenced above? The search function here displays endless results and I have no idea what the correct one is.

Imagine if Helen Wagner had joined SFT, after she got demoted to recurring on ATWT in the early 80s, as Jo’s long lost cousin or something. Mary and Helen would not mix well together, that’s a lotta cunt for one soundstage.

David O’Brien was so dreamy. I can’t work out if he was a bottom or a top.

Was the CBS version of Search for Tomorrow much better than the NBC version?

I only have vague memories of it in the '70s, but remember it was good.

They tried to modernize it on NBC with the flood storyline, and the Miami Vice-style opening the same year it was cancelled.

Isn’t it Mary Stewart??? lol. Imagine what that cunt Mary Stuart would have done if anyone, while she was still alive, made the faux pas that GL made after she croaked. Mary Stewart.

Eau de Helen - smells like vinegar, mothballs and old lady pee.

Alan’s posted a lovely solo photo of Bev McKinsey and one with him and Judi Evans in front of the old GL studios on West 26th Street in the 1980s.

Watching a season 2 episode of The Love Boat with Stephen Schnetzer playing the French boy toy of 26 years older Cyd Charisse.

If you watch just fast forward through Charo’s off key warbling accompanied by an imitation of a seizure and the antics of an 8 year old Corey Feldman.

Oops! R302 here. I should have watched to the end before posting. Not a boy toy! He was her son.

Oh well.

Where's my boa?

R303, you're not the first to make a wrong assumption.

When Cecile came back to Another World in the 90s, they should have had her sleep with Matthew. Then we would have had some great scenes with Cecile, Rachel and Donna..

the chemistry among Donna and Rachel and Cecile and Vicky (Heche) and Iris was fantastic.

the women were so strong on that show; the men after Watson and Nic Coster and Reinholt and Bekins ... not so much.

I'm busy reading my Texas book. I'm about halfway through. It's 375 pages and is fascinating. Turning out to be a real page turner for me.

I was a big Texas fan, so know the storylines and characters that are being mentioned. Reading this is bringing back lots of memories.

But even for those who never watched the show, it's fascinating to read for the behind the scenes happenings and decisions that affected what we saw on screen. Needless to say, there were so many major missteps happened in the first year. This show was a maser class in what NOT to do when launching a soap.

The author got many interviews including with co-creator Joyce Corrington, writer Patrick Mulcahey, actors Pam Long and Kin Shriner, among others. Also got Scott McKinsey to comment on his mother's experiences.

However, I was disappointed that, of the actors who are still alive, neither Jerry Lanning (Justin Marshall) nor Carla Borelli (Reena) agreed to be interviewed. They were the breakout characters in my opinion and the ones whose experience I most wanted to read about. But the other actors had fascinating insights.

I'll report more later

I'd love to read it but I'm really all about ebooks these days.....hopefully it will eventually come out that way

I also wish the Texas book was available in a Kindle edition.

I bought the physical copy and splurged on the handbook.

The content of the book is great, but the construction isn’t. My copy has a defect on the front and back covers.

R308, do any bad decisions stand out? Any surprises?

[quote]the women were so strong on that show; the men after Watson and Nic Coster and Reinholt and Bekins ... not so much.

I think that's largely correct for 1980 and onward, but I think Schnetzer was good and Eplin, though not the greatest actor, was very charismatic.

I remember liking the original Willis but that could have been teenage hormones.

The original Willis was hot. Whatever happened to that actor? Isn’t Willis the one who blackmailed his sister Sharlene for being a hooker?

Yes. He was vile.

I was too young for the first Willis, so Leon Russom is the only Willis I knew. He came across as kind of a sad-sack. The first Willis seems to be much more intriguing and sexy. For some reason, Jacqueline Courtney didn't want to play Alice and Willis

Why didn’t they have Chris Robinson play a recast Willis Frame, instead of the newly created Jason Frame?

John "Jerry" Fitzpatrick was hot as hell. Had a smoldering sexuality that turned on this pubescent boy long before he understood what it meant.

According to Harding Lemay's book, his firing had nothing to do with his talent or performances. He was fired because of his behavior backstage, although Lemay didn't spell out specifically what he did.

From Lemay's book, I thought he was the one with the drinking problem or was that Nicholas Coster?

He definitely looks like he could be related to George Reinholt.

r319 Lemay's book never said it was Nicolas Coaster who had the drinking problem. But from the clues dropped, it was obvious it was Coaster.

There was absolutely no mention of John Fitzpatrick having a drinking problem.

According to the Texas book, Beverlee McKinsey took an instant liking to Pam Long. In early 1981, Pam did her screen test with Beverlee and after they finished, Beverlee announced they should keep the camera rolling. She took Pam into the corner, gave her a few pointers and they came back to do the screen test again.

Pam's second try at the screen test was far superior to the first one. No question about that. However TPTB were still leaning toward giving Patricia Kalember the role of Ashley. Beverlee got wind of this and went to TPTB and essentially said, "No, Pam Long is Ashley Lindon." And thus, Pam got cast in the part.

Then two years later, Patricial Kalember would be cast as the protagonist . Merrill Vochek, on the newly launched soap Loving.

But if it weren't for Beverlee, Pam Long might not ever had gotten her start in daytime.

When Texas went to cast its romantic lead, Alex Wheeler, the first love of Iris, the show specifically wanted somebody new. they did not want to cast a known soap actor. So, when Bert Kramer auditioned, he impressed everyone with his swagger, his masculinity and his presence.

And Kramer was very impressive in his initial episodes. Super impressive. You understood how Iris could fall for Alex, especially thanks to the flashbacks of their initial courtship they created.

However, after a few weeks, Alex Wheeler was much less impressive. He lost his swagger and his confidence. Bert Kramer was having trouble keeping up with the pace of daytime. He came from movies and prime time and just couldn't memorize so many lines each day.

Although the book makes no mention of it, there have long been rumors that Kramer had a drinking problem.

Whatever the reason, Kramer went up on his lines often, requiring multiple takes of a scene.

This did not go over well with Beverlee McKinsey who always came to set knowing her script backwards and forwards. She got all her scenes in one take. The more Kramer flubbed his scenes, the less enamored Beverlee was of him.

Eventually, Beverlee went to the producers and writers and got them to agree to only put Iris and Alex in scenes together once a week. The rest of the time, Iris said to be was out shopping or Alex was at work.

And of course, they killed Alex off once his contract was up.

Very interesting, Liz.

That puts the knowledge that Pam created Alexandra for Beverlee into some new context.

Beverlee didn’t have to be such a cunt about everything. Yet she was.

I tried watching the Suzy Cote/Jocelyn Seagrave thing but I died of boredom about 20 minutes in 💀

R325 is possibly the trill who constantly criticizes Beverlee ‘s work ethic. The Texas book asserts the exact opposite from every source.

[quote][R325] is possibly the trill who constantly criticizes Beverlee ‘s work ethic.

r325 is our resident psycho troll, Spicen, who adores criticizing Beverlee, among other things.

Best not to engage him at all. Best to put his posts on Ignore (click the third button to the right under his post; the one with the slash through it) and then all of Spicen's posts will disappear. This thread becomes a much nicer place once you do that.

The Another World Home Page has a nice section on Texas. That web site is such a great resource for a big Another World fan like me. Do any other soaps have a comprehensive website devoted to them?

R329 You've never heard of Queen Jason?

He runs the Jason47.com website devoted entirely to Days of Our Lives. Seriously. It's encyclopedic.

R330 Thank you! I never have heard of him or the site. I was a big fan of Days until the late 80s or so.

[quote]The content of the book is great, but the construction isn’t. My copy has a defect on the front and back covers.

My hardback copy of the Texas book also has a couple of slight defects on the front and back covers.

It's a print on demand book. Back pages of my book indicate it was printed on the same day i ordered it.

Print on demand books have a long history of having defects, especially on the covers.

R332/Aunt Liz, thanks for the explanation. I figured it had something to do with the glue used.

Texas has an interesting writing history.

Show was created by Joyce and John William Corrington, novelists and screenwriters who had come to great acclaim in the soap world for HWing Search for Tomorrow from 1978-80. They are the ones who created Travis Sentell and added a bit of adventure to the show.

P&G and NBC then offered them the chance to create their own soap. They pitched Reunion, which was set in post-Civil War New Orleans. Network didn’t like that, but wanted to get in on the Dallas bandwagon, so pushed them to create a Texas-based show.

The first five weeks of Texas were aired as part of the 90 minute Another World. Those five weeks of story and introducing the characters were quite strong and had lots of location shoots.

But by the time Texas spun off to become its own show on August 4, 1980, the Corringtons were five weeks into the story, the scenes shot on location had run out and the story was already beginning to meander. Thus, the “official” launch of the show proved to be rather weak.

And of course, the show launched against Luke and Laura going on the run, which didn’t help matters. NBC had high expectations for Texas and wanted the show to deliver.

By the end of December 1980, NBC fired the Corringtons as HW and Paul Rauch as EP due to the low ratings.

P&G should have immediately transferred the Corringtons back to Search for Tomorrow to keep the excitement in that show going. Instead, they had a year off, then finally became HWs of GH in 1982, shortly after Laura disappeared in the fog on the docks. Later they moved over to Capitol and then OLTL.

The Corrington’s replacements as HW were Dorothy Ann Purser and Sam Ratcliffe, while Gail Kobe moved up from producer to become EP.

However, shortly after Purser and Ratcliffe were named HWs, the Writers Guild of America went on strike for 13 weeks. So, of the nine months Purser and Ratcliff were HWs, they were on strike for a third of that time.

Back in fall 1981, Paul Rauch brought in playwright Corinne Jacker to be HW of Another World, hoping to duplicate the success from a decade earlier of playwright Harding Lemay becoming HW of AW.

At the same time, Texas EP Gail Kobe did something similar. While on a plane trip, she read a novel published in 1969 called "Professor Wilmess Must Die" (very similar name to AW's "Harry Must Die") by a novelist named Paul Rader. She liked it and through the author had a good sense of storytelling. So, she hired Rader, who have never written for a soap ever before, much less been a HW, to be Texas' new HW starting in September 1981.

The previous writers Dorothy Ann Purser and Samuel Ratcliffe were fired although Ratcliffe was later brought back to assist Rader in the HW duties since Rader was new to soap writing and being an HW. Later Gerald Flesher was brought in to help Rader as HW.

Rader proved to be a better fit for Texas than Jacker was for AW. Rader is the one who beefed up the Wheeler Family, bringing in Grant Wheeler's children Mark and Brette Wheeler, along with his estranged wife Judith.

He also gave Ashley Lindon a trouble-making sister, Allison, and a 10-year-old brother, Gregory, who would later be revealed to be her son.

He also put Lurlene and Ruby together as roommates, creating daytime's answer to Lucy and Ethel and one of Texas' most popular duos.

He also wrote the Hitopah storyline, which was inspired by Raiders of the Lost Arc, which had come out in summer 1981. All the soaps were doing sci-fi and fantasy storylines following the success of the Ice Princess storyline on and Hitopah proved to be one of the better of those storylines.

Rader could have very easily continued as HW when his year long contract was up, but it was not meant to be.

By late summer/early fall 1982, Gail Kobe sent NBC and P&G officials a long-term story projection for Texas written by an anonymous writer. The consensus was that it was a fantastic story project full of heart and excitement. They thought the person who wrote it should become the new HW of Texas.

Kobe then revealed the story projection had been written by actress Pam Long, who had been on the show as Ashley Lindon since March 1981.

Pam had often stopped by Kobe’s office, offering speculation on where she thought some storylines were going and suggestions on how to improve other storylines. So, after a year and a half of hearing Pam’s ideas, Kobe got her to write the long term story projection. Pam wrote a 250-page projection.

Interestingly, Patrick Mulcahey also submitted a long-term story projection for Texas at this point. Mulcahey got his start in soaps writing for the Corringtons on Search and then moved over to Texas with them. He departed Texas soon after the Corringtons did, but P&G liked him and convinced him to go to GL to work with Doug Marland. Then after Marland quit GL in summer 1982, Mulcahey wrote his long-term project for Texas.

Once everyone agreed to installing Pam as HW, Kobe then assigned her secretary, Carolyn Culliton, to work with her, to help her get the scripts properly formatted, as well as keeping up with things like actors’ guarantees for number of shows each week, actors’ vacations, etc. She also helped with the breakdowns.

Thus, the joke became that Texas was being written by an actress and a secretary, but it was completely true.

On a side note, Carolyn Culliton started as Paul Rauch’s secretary and then became Gail Kobe’s secretary when Rauch was fired as Texas EP. Carolyn also helped open the door for her husband, Richard, a playwright, to get into writing soaps. Texas was the first soap Richard Culliton ever wrote for.

After 4-6 weeks as HW, Pam left for maternity leave, writing Ashley out by having her swept away in a flash flood. Once Pam returned from maternity leave, the plan was to reveal Ashley was being held captive in a remote cabin. So, Pam’s intention was to continue acting on the show as well as being HW.

But NBC cancelled Texas, the final episode airing on Dec. 31, 1982. Pam’s scripts only aired for about 4 months. Kobe then was moved over to GL as EP, bringing along both Cullitons as writers. And Kobe was impressed enough by what Pam Long did as the Texas HW that she invited her to come over to be HW of Guiding Light, with Pam’s first scripts airing in late May 1983.

Thank you, Liz! We can ALWAYS count on you for the best eavesdropping and gossip!

Not to cast aspersions on AuntLiz but isn’t all this in the just-released book?

[quote]Not to cast aspersions on AuntLiz but isn’t all this in the just-released book?

Yes, that's where I was reporting the information from. Been reporting it all weekend long as I read the Texas book. I knew few others here were going to read the book since there are only a handful of Texas fans here. But I tjought I'd share the information that might be of interest.

Sorry to have offended you by reporting that information.

The losers at SON are discussing the Texas book.

Speaking of books, did anyone else read the Megan McTavish memoir I read today? It was called something like "Tap Dancing in a Cuisinart," and now I can't find it. It's especially notable IMO for her opinion of Agnes Nixon.

Here r341. If you hate Agnes, Felicia Behr and Jill Farren Phelps, you’ll find a lot to like here. She also trashes Lucci, Geary, Roscoe Born, Julia Barr….it’s a hatchet job on many of the sacred cows of ABC Daytime.

Thank you so much, r342.

Thanks to author Tom Lisanti for all the time and love he put into getting those Texas interviews and then compiling it all into a book. Bravo!

If Tom isn't already s DataLounger posting on these soap threads, he should be!

Thanks for letting us know Megan has written a autobiography.

Now I've got something to read for tomorrow. Can't wait!

McTavish is a whacko. Crazy cat lady.

WOW, is that Megam McT book for real? She'd be sued many times over if it ever got published!

It is indeed a hatchet job on many ABC actors but the two scintillating bits of info from her GL time are:

- Maureen Garrett was partnered with Mimi Torchin for a time

and

- An interview Jean Carol gave a soap mag mentioning Megan was the reason Megan decided to kill off Nadine

Frank Beaty's meltdown is also mentioned.

AuntLiz, you didn’t offend me, I just think what you’re doing is tiresome. Let everybody buy the damn book.

I don't find it tiresome at all. Thanks, AuntLiz.

Focus on the real enemy, the asshole who posts about clogged toilets, snatch eating, piss facials, and Doug Marland’s toes.

And the biggest asshole of all-Jill Farren Phelps.

R319, I think Nic was the one with the booze problem as Lemay said he and the actor were pals.

OG Willis was HOT; you could see his wheels turning in every scene.

I agree about Schnetzer and Eplin; Schnetzer is a good guy, a sweetheart. I only met Epilin once briefly and can't form an opinion.

I am blessed (cursed?) with an incredible memory; watching AW during Lemay's reign was a treat.

I will hear NO slander and NO hatefulness against our dear Aunt Liz!

I mean, she is a gossipy old bitch but still, she's OUR gossipy old bitch!

Speaking of Aunt Liz, I rewatched Mac and Rachel’s double wedding the other day. Ada was in a dress. Liz complimented her on the dress and said the two of them should go out bar hopping to meet men, which made me LOL.

I’ll spread my legs

R354 wait....is that just a random declaration or is it in connection with a previous post? LOL

When oh when will there be a book about MEEEEE?

Mark Dobies, who played Noah, one of Reva's many loves on GL, has died. He was 65.

It sounds like he had some sort of longterm illness.

Alan Locher just posted it on his FB page.

[quote]I only met Epilin once briefly and can't form an opinion.

I've only ever heard three things about Eplin:

1) He fucked everybody and was messy about it

2) His agent negotiated a sweet pay-or-play deal for him during his final P&G years

3) I heard that he did not like Jensen Buchanan

Don't forget Tom gave Soap Digest editor Stephanie Sloane herpes, per the Jossip thread.

Dobies played closted gay on OLTL.

RIP

I always thought Mark Dobies was handsome. If Reva needed a non-Josh partner I would have vastly preferred Noah to Buzz or (((shudders)) Jeffrey O'Neill.

And he could act, unlike the shirtless dude who rescued Reva when Annie made Reva's plane crash.

R358, I'd heard 1 and 2, but never 3

Jensen did a few ATWT episodes and then was off to play the under-developed Melissa on GH.

There was a day when Vicky was still on ATWT and overlapped onto GH; kingdom come came down as there was no overlapping back then. They had to recast Jensen on GH for one day. The woman they got, I thought, was actually much better.

Eplin was on the news out in LA during the fires in January; he was just this regular guy with a hot blond woman as his g.f. or wife.

I can imagine Stefanie was quite the envy of all the editors and colleagues in the soap press once she and Tom were an item.

But...be careful what you wish for.

Tom had sizzling chemistry with Anna Stuart

R342 Is that the whole book? I'm intrigued by McTavish's description of Robin Matson (a slithering, devious actress!). But no other details about her. I'm not surprised about Lucci being vain and intensely insecure about her age, but otherwise, she sounds like a mostly agreeable person to be around.

r365 The Megan McTavish book was book proposal written in 2012 with samples of the the various chapters. Presumably, if the proposal had been accepted, she would have expanded each of the chapters with more details..

Let’s not derail this thread by talking about McTavish’s book. She has her own dedicated thread.

McTavish got her start acting on the soaps at GL and wrote for GL for about two years in the mid 90s. She's the one who did the Brent Laurence/Marian Crane story. And she does talk about that briefly in the book.

Below is the link to the thread about her book.

I was reading Parker Posey’s memoir, “You’re On An Airplane” today. She doesn’t go into detail about her time on ATWT but she does have a few good snippets. She says that when she got there, Colleen Zenk went up to her and said, “Be careful who you tell things to here. The walls have ears”. Funny thing is this was during the “everybody in Oakdale eavesdrops” era. Art imitated life.

She also says they asked her if she would mind getting out of her contract early to make way for Holden in a coma. And she says how nice and handsome Henley was.

Who were the snitches on the ATWT set? I bet Lisa Brown was one of them.

R370, I want to say Martha Byrne just because I hate her MAGA ass now.

Oh my! The harpies over at SON are ganging up on stupid Dumbass Cuntatellall. She’s so god damn dumb! In the biz Vee is leading the charge against Cuntatellall. Fun stuff.

Carly Tenney lived on the SFK eavesdropping porch.

R368 Mostly true but she was HW for just a little over a year - from mid 1995 to October 1996.

R370 It was long alleged and rumored that HBS and CH were horrible on OLTL and reported shit to the magazines all the time in the 90's.

HBS once said you will either love her or hate her

I know of very few soap stars who had a story like Jensen Buchanan's.

She had it all and ultimately she destroyed a man's life and pretty much her own.

(she still has LOTS of money thanks to the rich guy she divorced and reportedly lives a quiet life in coastal WA.

Yes, HBS was horrible to a few people on ATWT too, and she and CH egged each other on at OLTL.

R377, So I say she was a SNITCH! (HBS)

Send her to the glue factory!

The Locher Room with Jocelyn Seagrave and Suzy Cote was more interesting than I thought it would be. I knew Seagrave would look as lovely as she did on GL, just older. Cote was the surprise, she looks way more appealing now than she did back then, maybe it’s the blonde hair. I actually thought if there ever was a GL reboot Samantha Marler and Julie Camiletti woudn’t be half bad Springfield matriarchs with teen kids. And Dylan fathered them all, haha.

Anybody seeing Kim Zimmer in The Trip to Bountiful this week in Raleigh? Has she done Driving Miss Daisy yet?

I seem to remember going to a buffet-style restaurant called Bountiful.

Kim being interviewed on local TV in Raleigh. It’s disconcerting, seeing Reva looking like a grandmother.

Good for our beloved Kim Zimmer for persevering! She looks like a grandmother because she IS a grandmother. She kicked cancer in the ass! You go Kim!

I wonder who the lady in Raleigh's brothers were/are? Did they play young Shayne?

Some people age differently than others. Lucci looks like she did when she was perpetually 35 year old Erica Kane -- just older.

Others morph into looking older; some spirits are different. People who don't age much on the outside can age on the inside and vice versa.

If Kim weren't wearing lipstick and dangly earrings she'd look like a man.

She’ll always be the loudmouth crowning herself the Slut of Springfield in the fountain, throwing mousy Samantha Marler out of her car before she drives off a bridge and into the water.

Kim looks better than the aged Dolly did in the clone storyline.

So when Reva came back to GL, did they ever explain what caused her to drive off the bridge?

They knew at the time it happened she was having post partum depression or mental health issues.....a few months after Shayne's birth.

I thought Pat Falken Smith and L. Virigina Browne were unsuccessful in their attempt to take over GL after Doug Marland quit in frustration.

Then, this writer from Texas comes on and I thought, well, I'm not holding out much hope.

Ha!

What did I know! Pam Long soon became one of my top three all time soap writers in short order. I do wish she'd kept Hope and Amanda and brought Elizabeth and Rita back.

Teen Reva was the highlight of the clone storyline.

Hot Dr. Michael was the highlight of the clone Reva story.

I just finished the Texas book — loved it, wish there was more.

Harley Jane Kozak casually mentions that she had negative experiences at GL. Michael Woods mentions hating his story at GL…

I would love to hear more about the behind the scenes goings-on at GL.

That would be an interesting topic - which actors hated which of their storylines

R394 I really wish someone would do this style of book that Lisanti has done with RH and Texas (also how the OLTL book was done years ago) with GL and ATWT.

I got the title already-Shit We Hated.

I prefer Prunes and Peg Legs-Life in Oakdale and Springfield

I have a few questions regarding Texas, etc. I’m betting people here (hi, Aunt Liz!) can help.

In the book, Pam Long makes one little subtle jab at Jay Hamner. I’d love to know more about their relationship.

Speaking of Hamner, is he related to Earl/Scott Hamner? Also, there’s a woman referenced in the book with the surname Hamner (I can’t remember her first name). I think she was a writer or an exec. She’s not interviewed. Is she related to Jay?

I’m also wondering if Michelle Poteet Lisanti is related to author Tom Lisanti.

Thanks so much!

I haven’t watched much Texas, but boy the book made me nostalgic.

Isn’t her name Linda Hamner?

I bet Jay cheated on Pam. He was a looker back in the day.

[quote]In the book, Pam Long makes one little subtle jab at Jay Hamner. Speaking of Hamner, is he related to Earl/Scott Hamner?

His name is Hammer, not Hamner.

Another World Home Page's Texas section lists a Linda Hamner and a Gary Hamner as writers on Texas.

Linda Hamner and Gary Hamner are also both listed as writers for Another World in 1980 and 1981.

No idea if Linda and Gary are related, but it certainly seems like a possibility.

Jay Hammer lack of participation in the Texas book seemed odd. Given how talkative Jay can be about his time on GL, seems like Jay would also have been talkative about Texas. And yet he wasn't. However, he was only on the show for 6 months.

Speaking of odd, it was also strange that the book barely even mentioned when Jay took over the part of Max Dekker. And barely touched on Max being killed off.

And Pam Long didn't even mention meeting the father of her children on Texas.

[quote]In the book, Pam Long makes one little subtle jab at Jay Hamner. I’d love to know more about their relationship.

That jab was so subtle, I don't even recall what she said. Please refresh my memory.

Have any of you watched Guiding Light (Sentiere) Soap Talk on YouTube?

Holy shit it goes where Alan Locher dare not. It's in Italian, but translated to English.

I watched the Beth Chamberlin one. Found out a lot of things I never knew. Very dishy. I'll get to that later.

Just watched Frank Beatty on there. About his breakdown, he didn't want to get into it much, except he said he was very stressed, working a lot, had a relationship issue and had a nervous breakdown on set. He said it was about Jesus and God. It was spiritual. It led him away from "That lifestyle" and on a path to God he's still on today. Hmmmm. He said GL offered him another year, but he declined due to not wanting a certain lifestyle.

He said he and Rick were soulmates on the show, and he'd seen Rick on GL a year before and said that's what he wanted- to be a thoroughbred actor like Rick, and they stayed friends after, and until this day, but said they haven't spoken in a long time. He watched Rick and Sonia on the Locher Room.

So in other words - he was in love with Rick, lost his shit, found Jesus and went ex gay.

Still watching Frank Beatty- he now says he regrets not staying in GL because they were going to rehabilitate Brent using Abby the Amish girl. He said they never approached him after to come back which, at times, he would have. He again says he was still in touch with Rick ( he says mostly Rick). He says he was practicing Buddhism after that. He mentions RicK A LOT and how they were still in touch, so Idk WTF went on, or what he still wanted to go on. R406 I'm not so sure, now. Watching further he just was very lost and his breakdown, which Megan McTavish says flat out he was bipolar, scared him.

He just said he's in a relationship with a woman. He's also wanting back in acting.

I'm surprised Frank Valentini hasn't created a role for him.

[quote]So in other words - he was in love with Rick, lost his shit, found Jesus and went ex gay.

From everything I've ever heard about Frank Beatty, that's what happened. Interesting to hear that Frank is essentially verifying that all in this on the show. Of course without saying the word "gay"

Is there a link to this video on YouTube?

The Pam Long/Jay Hammer thing is weird. She took his name professionally, then later said they were never married. Odd. Maybe they were married but got an annulment so in her eyes they were never married?

The jab she took at Jay in the book is that she said he did romantic scenes with his watch on and wore socks in bed.

I’m reading the Texas book now and I don’t believe her when she says she never knew why they killed off Jay’s character. Granted, she was not the headwriter when that happened, but after becoming the headwriter and being in a relationship with Jay and getting along so well with Gail Kobe, she never asked??? I don’t believe it.

Beth Chamberlin had a surprise guest- John Driscoll. Not looking as good, but I'd still do him. He adored Beth C and vice versa.

That channel has a lot of clips not found on YouTube, and even the actors had never seen. One was of Beth C as a Beth lookalike in 1986 as Lillian was looking for Beth when she was kidnapped by Professor Blackburn. Surprise person Beth C shared a scene with!

You people not posting links to the YT Sentieri channel are worse than Hitler.

Beth Chamberlin

Frank Beatty

Beth Chamberlin- There was a lot I will forget. She originally auditioned for Mindy, then Blake (?), but they called her back for Beth. Beth was supposed to be in a cult. Her audition was Beth trying to be deprogrammed. P&G nixed that idea. I’m sure Pam Long was furious because Beth says she had very little time to come up with an alternate story for Beth’s return. The cult story sounds like it would’ve been fantastic. Fucking P&G. She didn’t like the Beth kidnaps Alan and Gus storyline. She thinks if Beth isn’t with Phillip she should be with Rick or Coop. She looked FANTASTIC! The best she’s looked in years, and she’s always been a knockout.

Frank Beatty- yikes, it does sound like he ran from a gay life. I think Rick Hearst helped him along with that if you read between the lines. Megan McTavish explicitly said Frank had a full on bipolar episode during filming, became incoherent, stripped all of his clothes off, and ran into the NYC streets naked. He just says he had a nervous breakdown during filming. He mentions Rick Hearts about 99 million times, though. His biggest regret was not saying on GL. If he shaved his white beard, and dyed his hair, he still looks great.

They had the balls to ask Frank what happened when he had to be replaced. Damn. Alan wouldn’t even come close to that.

These people ask better questions and show good clips.

Beth Chamberlin’s video is new and she looks 35, but not at all plastic. Frank’s is a year old.

So, Frank went ex-gay? I bet he was on drugs, too. I think Rick Hearst had a hand in helping Frank go ex-gay.

Beaty, not Beatty

R419 You wasted a post on a “t”? Who cares. He’s a nobody.

r419 is Nancy Lee Grahan who clearly forgot to sign her post.

Do better, Nancy.

Thanks for posting the Frank Beatty video. Wow. Alan Locher could only dream of asking such direct questions.

My read on it is that Frank probably didn't identify as gay, but he was clearly in love with Rick Hearst.

I suspect that it was Frank realizing exactly how much in love with his "soulmate" Rick Hearst that he was that pushed him over the edge and causing his nervous breakdown. And along with that realization that he was in love with Rick may have come the realization that would mean he was gay.

If Rick Hearst stayed in Frank's life, which he clearly did, that suggests that Rick let him down gently. Or he set some kind of boundaries around their friendship/relationship.

I'm not sure I would call Frank an "ex=gay" because I don't think he was ever truly out as a gay man. I'm not saying he had never dabbled in the gay scene; he may very well have. But I'm not seeing him as an out and proud gay man like say Ben Hendrickson, Tuc Watkins or Paul Anthony Stewart was in 1995.

Also, I didn't hear the word "lifestyle" used by Frank. Maybe I missed it, but I don't think so.

i did hear that his breakdown turned out to be a religious experience for him. And that Jesus was involved. People can have a religious experience without it being connected to being ex-gay. Around the same time Frank was having his breakdown, Vince Irizarry was having a breakdown of sorts and also found God.

[quote]I’m also wondering if Michelle Poteet Lisanti is related to author Tom Lisanti.

No idea if they were related. He certainly doesn't make mention of it in the book.

My understanding is that Lisanti is her married name and Poteet is her maiden name. So, even if they are related, it would likely be by marriage, not blood.

Given the Michelle Poteet Lisanti was HW of Days of Our Lives in 1981, prior to Pat Falken Smith returning as HW, I think he would have mentioned it in his introduction.

I mean, if his sister-in-law or cousin-in-law or aunt or whoever, was the HW on a show he was not watching while he was devoted to another NBC show, it just feels odd.

Maybe Frank had an existential crisis realizing he was possibly gay, which caused him to shun acting on it if he couldn’t have Rick? If I was a betting man, Frank has absolutely dabbled with men. I also think drugs were involved. I also wonder if he is bipolar. Extreme highs and lows. Maybe he has a “girlfriend” now (who hysterically lives in France) because he’s going into acting. Megan McTavish said she couldn’t write fast enough for him because of how wonderful he was with her material. And he was. They showed a montage of Marian and I’d forgotten some of it was actually very scary and dark for daytime. It was thrilling. The way they would light Marian made her extra frightening.

If Frank has stayed for another year, the proposed redemption storyline with Abigail could have been really interesting. And I have no doubt Frank could have pulled it off. He was quite talented.

However, Rick Heart left the show in June 1996, so if Frank had stayed in order to be close to his "soulmate," they would have only had four more months together.

^Rick Hearst

Why did Rick leave? He had plenty of good story, and the show was decent in 1996 from what I remember.

R423, I agree. Often though when surnames are identical there will be included a parenthetical stating no relation.

“ The jab she took at Jay in the book is that she said he did romantic scenes with his watch on and wore socks in bed.”

I believe that the mention is capped off with a chide of how that is something that no Southern man would do.

Back in the day, Jay could keep his socks, watch and hat on for all I care, as long as he came to bed! 🍆

[quote]I believe that the mention is capped off with a chide of how that is something that no Southern man would do.

Maybe that's a Texas thing. I'm from the South and I've never heard that before. I thought it was strange that Pam mentioned it.

I've had my socks on plenty of times while having sex. My watch too. But not my hat since I rarely wear a hat.

[quote]I've had my socks on plenty of times while having sex. My watch too.

Gurl.

[quote]Why did Rick leave? He had plenty of good story, and the show was decent in 1996 from what I remember.

Rick Hearst could have stayed at GL for the rest of his life if he wanted. They would have built the show around him if he wanted. He could have been the male lead and collected more Daytime Emmys than Tony Geary.

But he'd been at GL for six years and wanted to try his hand in Hollywood. That's why Kim Zimmer left in 1990. That's why Grant Aleksander left at the end of 1984.

Rick Hearst was involved in one of those MLM schemes. My sister got involved, met him and all. I think they were selling some powder BS. Very skeezy. He's gay gay gay!

Rick is not gay.

I'm all aflutter imagining Rick Hearst and the Pendulous one doing all sorts of things to each other

R436 Grant would allow looking, but no touch. Imagine if he’d been on the show when Frank Beaty was on. Poor Frank would still be in Arkham.

R436 True. Many have been transfixed by the pendulousness. But look, do not touch!

hmm... will this be good?

I wonder if David Gregory ever took JWS's Speedo surprise?

R439? Could it be bad?

If loving it is wrong I don't wanna be right.

I just don't think he will ask good questions based on other interviews and reviews here

There is potential for this to be with JWS and David Gregory reuniting.

However, given Locher's aversion to asking anything controversial and his seeming inability to ask deep and provocative interview questions, I won't have high expectations for this.

I always thought the way to rehabilitate Brent was to have his alter ego Marian raped (Marian was groped and Brent was molested as a child), and have him realize what he’d done, realize he became the monster that hurt him.

Frank and Rick would certainly have made a pretty couple.

In that Jossip thread mentioned not long ago, a rumor about Rick H and Ricky Paull Goldin was also mentioned......

Frank's Emmy nom was for his scene excoriating his sister for not helping him when he was molested. He should've won hands down. Nobody was better that year.

Megan T said she wrote big stories, and that was certainly true of this story. She went BIG and it was worth it.

Jerry verDorn beat out Frank Beatty for the supporting actor Emmy that year. I watched Jerry's reel recently and he submitted scenes that they say Emmy voters love with a variety of comedic and dramatic scenes. I was rooting for Frank to win that year and thought how could he not win? As much as I love JvD, Frank Beatty deserved that Emmy hands down.

R427, he had been on the show for about 7 years and had won a Daytime Emmy.

He'd worked mostly non-stop since his debut.

I think he wanted to give nighttime a shot.

He did the obligatory 3 episode arc of Beverly Hills 90210 (what daytime alum wasn't on that show?) then, an episode of Maggie Winters, the short lived Faith Ford post-Murphy Brown series.

Nothing hit so he went to Y&R as recast Matt Clark, then, Whip to B&B, then, to GH as Ric.

Some soap stars leave daytime and hit big or work regularly after soaps and some come back to soaps for the paycheck and the stability.

Personally, I would found it difficult to leave GL in 1996 - Hearst left not long after Grant returned as big brother Phillip. Michael Dietz took over as A-M after he and Lucy wed but he didn't bring much to the role.

I can't believe GL didn't bring ONE of the A-M's back when Phillip and Harley were paired off. Beth and A-M added to that would have made a great quadrangle.

Could be that Grant's return meant that for budgetary reasons, Hearst wasn't going to be renewed at his same rate or get a pay raise.

And while the Brent/Marian story had some power behind it, the actual Alan-Michael/Lucy story was the cure for insomnia, so RH probably felt like he'd been written into a corner. He'd kind of done it all - two really great pairings with Blake and then Eleni. And other than the Brent/Marian story, GL was still floundering at that point - it had really went off the rails in the final days of JFP and the show was trying hard to reset.

Yes, the Brent/Marian story would have really worked if A-M and Lucy were an actual super couple, or even a popular couple. Sonia Satra acting was distracting and was insanely bad next to Rick and Frank (and Justin Dees). There was so much potential on GL during 1995/96 it was unconscionable it wasn’t better. Speaking of, Megan Mc didn’t say anything about La Zimmer in her book. Hmmmm.

What we saw from Megan McT was a proposal and probably focused on AMC to gain interest - but I have no doubt she would have written about La Zimmer in a complete book.

R451 Yes, she was an AMC fanatic from day one. I wonder if she would really ever give 100% to any other show. She certainly knew the show’s history better than most. So she un-abortioned Erica’s fetus? And we all knew Lucci was likely a huge egotistical cunt, unlike Zimmer who was happy to let herself go, but why did TPTB allow it?

So, who on GL (or any P&G show) likely had facelifts? Not Zimmer. Bev? Yes. Maureen? Maybe. Beth C? No, but lots of Botox for awhile.

Beth Chamberlin grew better and better looking. She was always a beauty, but by the time her and young Coop hooked up, she was, what, mid-40s, and her body looked AMAZING. Perfect. Not to mention her face was flawless. I tried looking for the YouTube vid of them in bed but cannot find it.

[quote]So she un-abortioned Erica’s fetus? And we all knew Lucci was likely a huge egotistical cunt,

McTavish suggested that it was Susan Lucci who was pushing for Erica to have a male child. So didn't elaborate on that. Presumably if she had gotten the book deal, McTavish would have spilled all the tea about that and how they came to unabort her fetus.

John Driscoll was smoking hot for a while - really buff - when he was in that story with Beth C.

I always thought Driscoll was gay, but he got married and probably has kids and I think is in the military.

Hmm.

Grant, Frank, Driscoll... we'll never know for sure who is, who isn't. Just lots of speculation.

Driscoll was on the Locher Room with his kid about 8 months. Talked about his wife, how they met, married, etc.

I met him when he was on Y&R. Didn't ping at all.

[quote]Jerry verDorn beat out Frank Beatty for the supporting actor Emmy that year. I watched Jerry's reel recently and he submitted scenes that they say Emmy voters love with a variety of comedic and dramatic scenes. I was rooting for Frank to win that year and thought how could he not win? As much as I love JvD, Frank Beatty deserved that Emmy hands down.

Yes, Frank should have won in 1996. But Michael Sutton was also nominated for his excellent turn as Stone on GH. As I recall, they were most favored to win. However, Sutton should have been in the Younger Actor category since he was just 24 when he played Stone's death scenes.

Anyway, it could have been that Beaty and Sutton cancelled each other out and the statue ended up going to Jerry ver Dorn, who had just won Supporting Actor the year before.

It was Frank’s Emmy. He had extraordinary material and was perfection.

Grant has never been rumored to be gay. I thought Driscoll was gay, too. He’s very conservative, so perhaps he is closeted. Frank is definitely gay.

Driscoll was absolutely smoking hot, which made he and Beth work so well- both were peak hot for their ages. They were beautiful together.

Driscoll pinged to the heavens to me when he was on GL, but if he was, he was/is in deep denial about it.

I remember being surprised Jerry won a second time, really thought either Frank Beaty or Michael Sutton would win.

Why did the Snyder adopt Iva? Didn’t they have enough kids?

Was it just as lazy of a plot point as it sounds to make Lily and Holden not related?

I hated that they made Iva and Josh both adopted children, clearing the way for Meg/Josh and Lily/Holden relationships.

Josh should have been a villain, and his murder would have been satisfying-they could have brought Fichtner back as an identical character or twin or something.

Lily and Holden should have remained with Dusty and Emily, respectively, always looking longingly at each other.

I thought it was inappropriate that Meg married her sister’s rapist, and that the rest of the supporting ended up supporting this. It always made the Snyders seem gross to me-there was way too much incest in that family and I could never move past it.

And the worst part was that they pressured Iva into being the maid of honor, R463! God, how I wanted her to tell them all to fuck off.

R462, the story was that a farm family in the area, the Carpenters, hit some very hard times and could not afford the farm or child so the Snyders took her in. This was created because Holden and Lily were a couple. Holden was originally supposed to be paired with Emily.

R462, I have a unique memory in that I recall minutia. Plus, thanks to YouTube, I have probably rewatched it a few times.

After Iva opened up to Emma about Josh and what happened, Emma told Iva that she owed HER a big apology and explanation.

Emma revealed after she'd given birth to Seth the doctors told her she'd never be able to carry another baby. (Seth must have WRECKED Emma's insides; that boy was HUGE!)

So, Emma and Harvey adopted Iva. Then, they learned Emma could have more babies and along came, in order, I believe, Caleb, Ellie, Holden, and Meg. (Or maybe Ellie came before Caleb?)

I'd pay 50 bucks a month if a streamer picked up old ATWT GL AW EDGE and Search episodes.

The Doug Marland, Pam Long, and Henry Slesar eras were gold. I grew up on Lemay in the 1970s of AW. Why they didn't promote his return more in 87 or 88, I'll never know.

I forget about the Carpenters! Iva's dad was Jared Carpenter.

I think the info I recall about Emma not being able to have another baby might be true, too.

R466 I’d split the cost with you.

Was GL still good after Marland, and before Long? Its ratings were still top 4/5/6.

R469 Anyone?

In the first 3-4 months after Marland's last scripts aired in late Septmeber1982, the show still seemed in decent shape. Marland had created good characters and left plenty of storylines for the show to play with. I still felt satisfied as a viewer.

By February 1983, things were slowly unraveling. We were almost 6 months from Marland's last scripts and show seemed to be lacking focus. We hand Grant on, but show wasn't really giving Phillip anything to do. Meanwhile, show seemed to be relying way too heavily on Quinton's popularity to carry it through this rough patch. They stretched out Quinton's adventure on Tanquir against Cyrus Crocker (Benjamin Hendrickson) seemingly to kill time.

And there was a mystery woman in the attic at Quinton's house who was finally identified as Mona Enright. I forget what her connection to Quinton was, but given that she was killed off, it must not have been terribly important, despite months and month and months of build up.

And Mark Evans (Mark Pinter) was skulking around being nefarious, wasting his sex appeal by making him villainous.

When Pam's scripts finally started airing in late May 1983, it was clear pretty quickly that she had a good vision for the show, something that had definitely been missing. .Show had gone through three HWs between Marland and Pam and none of those three really understood his vision for the show or were able to continue it.

Ironically, Pam didn't understand Marland's vision for the show either, but instead just remade the show with her vision. Unfortunately, a large percentage of the beloved Marland characters,.and Dobson characters from before that, were sacrificed in order to implement Pam's vision.

Thank you, as always, AuntLiz!

I second that. Always a pleasure, AuntLiz.

Was the Tanquir stuff on location? GL did location shoots very well.

The Tanquir material on GL was all shot in studio.

Incidently, the kingdom of Tanquir was first created by the Texas writers in 1980. Then GL writers picked up Tanquir again in 1983.

Then in November 1984, Cecile left Cass on the docks in Majorca as she sailed off with a Prince of Tanquir.

Did someone say Cecile?

Is she here? Quick, hide me.

You just never know when Cecile is going to pop up. Always watch your back, Donna.

And my man....and my wallet!

[quote]Cyrus Crocker

Silas Crocker

I miss Ben Hendrickson.

Ben Hendrickson's first soap role came on Texas in 1981, playing the villain Chris Shaw for 13 weeks, until Shaw as killed off sparking a murder mystery storyline.

Then he moved to Springfield, playing Quinton's arch nemesis Silas Crocker for 9 months in 1982-83. Silas Crocker was killed off 42 years ago today -- March 31, 1983.

Then in fall 1985, he started playing Hal Munson on ATWT. Munson was recurring for a long time until Marland had woven him onto the canvas so tightly, show had to give him a contract.

The highlights of the eras in between Doug and Pam gave us Company; I think Pat Falken Smith had a run-away house crash into Bea's boarding house. I remember Ross laughing and telling her she now owned it.

And, yes, Phillip was aged. I can't believe Grant was ever a fat kid. Whoever bought him weights should get an Emmy.

Schemering called Aleksander's Phillip "flamboyantly alienated," great description!

Pam held onto SOME of what Marland had created; she botched Vanessa her first go-round but she was solid in 1987.

She kept the Spauldings, and people can say what they want about the Bauers but Charita got sick and died and Don Stewart left over his contract.

That said, I might not have killed Hillary, and I certainly wouldn't have written out Hope.

A highlight of Pam's second tenure was Phillip taking Spaulding away from Alan, highlighted by Amanda's all too brief return. WHY didn't they keep her?

I also give Pam props for bringing back Roger and Holly.

R482 The show needed a villain, and Pam was very smart to reach into the show’s history. It was VERY smart bringing Roger back from the dead. The material from that alone paid off to infinity.

Speaking of Infinity, Pam is listed as HW during that stinker, but it did have some moments and adventure. Kurt and Mindy were so forced on us. That wedding should have been Beth/Lujack.

Kurt Corday was only on the show for a little over a year. Arrived February1985. Married Mindy in November 1985 in big lavish wedding shot on location. Killed off in April 1986

They really misfired with Kurt and Mindy. They were ok. They were NOT big, lavish, expensive location shoot material. Alexandra would’ve made that Beth and Lujack’s wedding. WHY did they do this with Kurt and Mindy? Incidentally, this was Sarah Michelle Gellar’s soap debut.

Ben Hendrickson was as queer as the day is long!

When Chris Bernau got too sick to work in summer 1988, GL invited Michael Zaslow to play Alan.

Zaslow, who was writing for AW (although on writers strike at the time), declined the offer, saying it would be too perverse for him to play Roger's sworn enemy. Show brought in Daniel Pillon to play Alan for a year.

But somewhere along the way, Zaslow said he'd be willing to return to the show as Roger. That's what started the ball rolling for Roger's return in Feb 1989.

It was brilliant. What a shame about Bernau. He had “it”. I can’t imagine his Alan ending up with Beth, either.

Lots of things happened post 2000 or so that I can't imagine Bernau's Alan or McKinsey's Alexandra doing.

[quote] Ben Hendrickson was as queer as the day is long!

We all knew that.....but I remember the various magazines talking about vacations where Ben and Scott Holmes went together.....wonder if it was just friends or if they were fucking around?

Is the actor who played Sky still alive?

Yikes! We missed an important anniversary!

April 2 was the 69th anniversary of the debut of As the World Turns and Edge of Night.

He died in 2016, R491.

R490 That’s like asking if Frank Beaty would go on vacation with Rick Hearst without trying to suck Rick off.

R494 Not now, Frank has a long distance “girlfriend”.

One of my local radio stations was mentioning announcements that happened on April Fool’s Day. One was the cancellation of Guiding Light. The morning show DJ said, “The devastating news of the cancellation of Guiding Light.” And he went on for a bit on it, making some light hearted jokes about the cancellation.

That dumb Cunt Cuntnessdumbassatella over at SON is verklempt over the April Fool’s Day axing of GL. Dumb bitch never saw it coming. lolololol Stupid cunt.

Thanks R493.

Justin Deas was the only straight leading man Hillary Bailey Smith had on ATWT.

Scott Holmes gave off narcissistic dom top vibes in his Locher Room appearance. I thought he was just being an asshole but this kinda puts that into a whole new light.

He was rather unpleasant in that interview, R499. Chewing gum, constantly looking sideways, glancing down at his watch... I mean, if you don't want to do it, just don't do it.

I never liked Scott Holmes, such a comedown from Gregg Marx.

R500 Agree. I was always neutral on him, though he did good work in the scenes after Margo's rape and during the Casey stuff.

But I much preferred Gregg Marx.

R491, sadly no. Larkin Malloy passed away in 2016.

What actor could have replaced Marx in 1987, instead of Holmes?

Bradley Lockerman who was on Capitol for a couple of years as "Zed Diamond." He's the same age as Gregg Marx and became available from that soap in1986. He was subsequently hired by General Hospital in 1990.

I forgot about him r505. He managed to make that horrible alien storyline work on GH solely because of his talent.

Lockerman would have been a much better Tom. Also on my list: Casey Biggs, who later played Fenno in the last days of RH; Stephen Yates, who was wrapping up at Jamie on AW; or, if he hadn’t still been in prime time at the time, James Read.

Tom was one of those characters that was hard to pin down, even though he had been on the show for his entire life. I think Scott Holmes was a miscast, and they should have found a more leading man type.

What about Randy Hamilton, who played Rikki Dekker on Texas, or Michael Woods from multiple soaps?

Greg Beecroft would have been an interesting choice, although I don’t think Ellen Dolan would have worked as Margo with him.

Scott really was so milquetoast. He was never offensively bad in that Susan-Batten-IS-Connor! sort of way, but.....just an odd choice. Then again, ATWT had some bad casting in that era, not sure if Betty was focusing on GL at the time? Mary Ellen Stuart was a dreadful Frannie, and some of the younger characters landed like a wet lump of papier-mâché.

"Mary Ellen Stuart was a dreadful Frannie..."

I disagree. I thought she was very good at giving us a more "grown-up" and less neurotic Frannie. I really loved her Frannie with Sean (Courtney's brother), but they stupidly got rid of him and brought in the universally-loathed Darryl. Poor Mary Ellen Stuart was a good actress, but she's not a miracle worker. Nothing could save that storyline, and it just went on and on and on...

Agreed -I thought Burke Moses was so sexy as Sean. She had good chemistry with Ed Fry too.

R511 I liked her a lot in her role on GL but she didn't do it for me.

I liked the actress who played Sabrina (Claire something) and wished she'd also played Frannie.

Ed Fry would have made a good Tom.

He would have, R514.

Why did Gregg Marx leave such a plum role?

Good question.

Mary Ellen Stuart was a pleasant romantic heroine but nothing more. Her range was very limited. I dug her wardrobe, particularly that suede jacket with tassels. Sorry, I forgot if they brought on another actress to play Sabrina (Claire Beckman) around the same time Stuart was there? They did, right? Because Stuart was not equipped to play Sabrina, too. Anyway I think whoever they cast as Frannie should have had the capability to also play Sabrina. AW, of course, did that horrible thing of having Marley and Vicky played by two different actresses at the same time. That was unforgiveable. Especially with Ellen Wheeler back to playing Marley opposite that helicopter crasher.

Soap Opera Weekly did a column on all three major ATWT recasts that came online at the same time-Ellen Dolan; Heather Rattray; and Mary Ellen Stuart.

They loved Dolan as well as Stuart, liking Dolan a shade more. They did not care for poor Heather Rattray, although I think the problem there was Marland tried to pull a Barbara Ryan and turn make Lily tough and bitchy when she returned to Oakdale. Suddenly, Lily was an aggressive, hard nosed businesswoman who bought Craig’s company; attempted to steal Sean from Frannie; and secretly told Hal about Barbara’s knowledge of Adam’s paternity, causing the Munson marriage to break up and causing Barbara to leave Oakdale. When Holden came back a few months later, Lily started to resemble the character Martha Byrne played.

Rattray has the same face as Heather Tom!

R504, Bryan Cranston was in for Tom. Marland had written for him as Doug on Loving.

I think he would have been an infinite better choice. But it might have derailed him from the path his career took

[quote]Why did Gregg Marx leave such a plum role?

In an interview someplace Gregg Marx said when his contract came up for renewal, he missed California and wanted to go home. Show producers said they would give him 9 months off. It he wasn't ready to come back after that, then they would recast.

Nine months later, Gregg didn't want to return to New York, so Tom Hughes was recast.

In a different interview (one done many years after he left ATWT), Gregg hinted that he didn't feel comfortable being a heartthrob to so many people when he couldn't be open about being gay. HE didn't flat out say it in that interview, but strongly suggested it.

Marx said in another interview about a chance to take over Sam Rappaport on OLTL.

He got a voice message, or, I guess, an answering machine message from Hillary that said: "Thomas Christopher Hughes. You MUST come to New York and play with me..."

Alas, he turned that down or turned down the chance to find out.

R523 THAT would have possibly made that terrible story more palatable.

At that point, HBS wanted away from Bob Woods so I can see why she'd want to go back to a costar she worked well with and liked.

[quote] Rattray has the same face as Heather Tom!

Same face, similar voice.

And a fellow sufferer of Pinched Sphincter Syndrome, one assumes.

Re: Texas and the oral history book: I listened to an interview with Caryn Richman from a few years back. She mentions not having a lot of the episodes of The New Gidget and says that’s one of the few things she’s been in that she doesn’t have archived.

I wonder if that means that the entire run of Texas exists.

Yes, the entire run of Texas exists.

P&G started saving its tapes in early 1979.

Texas aired 1980-82. A episode here or there may be missing, but otherwise the entire run in saved.

In 2006, P&G even started making episodes of Texas, AW and Edge available on AOL. P&G released about a year's worth of Texas episodes before they shut down that operation. And unfortunately, the first year was far weaker than the final year and a half.

But it is out there.

R527 — Thanks, Aunt Liz. I wish it was all available (just as I wish all of the other P&G shows from 1979 on were available somewhere).

A year or two back Colleen Zenk said most of the P&G vaults got dumped after GL and ATWT were cancelled. Not sure if she knew something about it or whether she was guessing.

I wish they'd done what was done with almost the whole run of The Doctors.

What does “got dumped” mean?

Colleen has implied that P&G threw the tapes of all the old episodes away. Dumped them in the landfilll or perhaps dumped them in the Ohio River.

There is no proof that P&G has done that. This is just speculation. But the way P&G wanted out of the soap business, it wouldn't be outrageous to think TPTB at P&G decided to throw away all the old tapes.

That said, as recently as 2012, P&G was in a licensing agreement to sell DVDs of select episodes of GL and ATWT.

R531 It would be unbelievably outrageous if they destroyed all of the episodes they had of these iconic shows. Please tell me there’s no way they’d do this.

They had to know they were worth SOMETHING, didn't they? B&B has a thriving Youtube channel. Why throw money away?

Even IF P&G were holding out for a better streaming deal for their old shows, the years are passing; it's time to release them somewhere, somehow.

I hope Colleen was just speculating but nothing would surprise me. P&G washed their hands of GL and ATWT and dumping the tapes would be completely in line with the rest of their carelessness.

[quote] Even IF P&G were holding out for a better streaming deal for their old shows ....,

Any streaming deal would first have to take into consideration who's going to pay to have all the old episodes digitized to prepare them for streaming. (CBS didn't start streaming any of their last four soaps until mid-2007.) The CEO of the Retro channel addressed the subject in more than one interview and talked about the tremendous undertaking it was to get The Doctors digitized. Last year, when they finally finished what they had available, Retro (Get After It Media) produced a video on the subject. Not a simple process by any means.

Geraldine Court’s (Jennifer Richards, GL) longtime partner, Valerie, is speaking out about Don Stewart (Mike Bauer) not wanting to be paired with a lesbian. Douglas Marland had intended for Mike and Jennifer to be lovers. Don went to Allen Potter (GL producer) and told him that he will not work with a lesbian as a love interest. Potter agreed.

I guess that in that particular case, snatches were NOT eaten.

Don Stewart wouldn’t have cared if the lesbian in question were Maureen Garrett. He just didn’t want to be paired with anyone age appropriate.

Not long before Mike Bauer was written off my father took me to see him at a mall appearance (with EON’s Allen Fawcett.)

Don Stewart came off as very high on himself. For years my father would ask me what happened to the “jerk who flew his own plane?”

R537: "Geraldine Court’s (Jennifer Richards, GL) longtime partner, Valerie, is speaking out about Don Stewart (Mike Bauer) not wanting to be paired with a lesbian."

Link, please.

I’ve been watching Edge Of Night on YouTube — the comments on the episodes are a (sometimes hilarious, mostly painful) soap opera in and of themselves.

any actor outside of Eric Braeden who went to Bill Bell and said "I don't do this" was soon out of work, I suspect.

actors are hired to read lines and perform. They beat out other candidates for their roles who could have easily been chosen over them.

I don't get it.

[quote]P&G washed their hands of GL and ATWT and dumping the tapes would be completely in line with the rest of their carelessness.

In 1995, I was told by someone at PGP that the reason old tapes/episodes don't exist is because they taped over existing episodes for years.

[quote]In 1995, I was told by someone at PGP that the reason old tapes/episodes don't exist is because they taped over existing episodes for years.

Yes, that process is known as "wiping."

P&G did that routinely until 1979 when it began saving each episode of its shows.

What people are talking about in this discussion is the possibility that P&G discarded all those tapes its been saving since 1979. Nothing has been proven, but one person suggested P&G dumped the tapes in the river, likely the Ohio River.

On a related note, back in the late 1950s after the short-lived DuMont network went out of business, , DuMont officials order the tapes of all their old shows to be dumped in the East River in Manhattan. DuMont saw no value in holding onto those tapes since at that point, the concept of a re-run was in it infancy. Among the tapes dumped included many episodes of the Jackie Gleason Show features skits of The Honeymooners.

It seems so misguided to dump copies of shows regardless of the format, particularly since the 1980s.

You can’t believe what that drunk trollop CZP says.

Mary Martha Byrne's husband was finally sentenced today: 18-months in federal prison for each of the three counts he was found guilty of to be served concurrently. Reuters report at link.

I'm sure he'll appeal, but he'll have to make a case as to why he should be able to remain out of prison during the appeals process. So far the judge hasn't ruled on that matter for the other two defendants, who received their very similar prison sentences prior to this hearing today.

Come on DJT. Pardon the poor innocent guy. Martha contributed enough to the campaign.

I always had a feeling Byrne’s husband was guilty of SOMETHING.

He couldn’t have been that clueless as to what he was doing.

R550 I read quite a bit about the evidence the prosecution presented at trial, including excerpts. Even before the jury verdict came in, I reached the conclusion that they had him on 3 of the 4 counts, and that's exactly what the jury came back with. .. His biggest problem is that as soon as he discovered whom he was working for -- and that timeline was proven beyond a doubt -- he should have immediately gone to the authorities and told them. When he didn't do that, he allowed himself to become part of the conspiracy, which then meant he's also guilty of the same stalking and harassment charges that the people behind this are. In short, like you, the jury didn't believe his "clueless" act, and personally, I don't think it helped that the defense chose not to put him up on the witness stand to try to convince the panel otherwise. -jmho

I suppose we'll soon be considering the next focus of our next marvelous Midwestern thread.

It won't be little miss Martha, I can confirm that........

PS haven't heard this yet but this is part 2 of a soap podcast

part one was all about Irna Phillips.

R553 Just started listening and Barbara Ryan is part of a bit about catfights.....lol

R553, I listened to the first two episodes and really enjoyed them. I wish they were longer.

Aristotle DuPont @r45?

I was surprised at Scott Bryce's reply to Martha's Facebook post about her husband's conviction. Scott makes no secret of his liberal political views, so I was expecting him to give Martha some wishy-washy "thoughts and prayers" response-- if any. But no... He called her husband "a hero and a patriot".

All bow down to poor poor Martha. Poor Martha.

Pussycat!!

R557, Craig was the closest thing Lily had to a father after Martin Guest killed himself.

And he killed himself because of WHIT MCCOLL!

There's more to it than that, Mrs. Walsh

That dumb stupid Cuntmessa Dumbassatellall is wrecking havoc on twitter again by claiming to know all about Another World. Stupid cunt has been blocked by Eddie Drueding and many other worthwhile people. Dumb cunt.

Be quiet Lucy!

classic Lucy v Lisa

nearly 39 years ago!

this is why Scott stands by Martha:

Mark Twain once said, "The proper office of a friend is to side with you when you are in the wrong. Nearly anybody will side with you when you are in the right.".

He's a better man than I.

Has Van Hansis offered his support to Martha yet?

Bet Byrne feels Lily’s life was a breeze in comparison.

New thread for when this one is done.

Was Martha always right wing? She seemed close to Lisa Brown, who posted anti-Trump comments on Facebook until she died, and to Liz Hubbard , who I can’t see being a conservative.

Byrne said a couple years ago that Lisa Brown told Byrne that Byrne was a closeted Dem or something to that effect. But that would have been years ago when she was much younger. Gen X has been very disappointing.

Byrne is full-on MAGA.

Being married to an Irish NYC cop would tip one into MAGA territory. Victoria Jackson ended up with a cop too.

What is the story of Lisa, Lucinda, and Whit McColl? When I started watching, the very first episode I saw had Lisa going to Sierra’s to see her after Craig and Betsy’s plane went down over Greece. Lisa tells Lucinda she is sorry about Lily running off and Lucinda reminds her how Lisa once wished her nothing but the worst after what she did to Whit.

Also, was Whit somehow involved with the suicide of Martin Guest?

I'll be curious what the answer to R574 is. I started watching ATWT right around the time of the Tad Channing mystery and I could never quite understand the Whit McCall business was, or why Martin Guest's name kept being repeated.

From what I recall-

Lucinda was married to Martin Guest before she married James Walsh. Martin arranged for the two of them to adopt Lily, illegally.

Martin and Whit McColl were business associates. Whit learned of the illegal adoption, and Martin committed suicide (I believe Whit threatened to expose this?).

Years later, after Whit came to Oakdale and married Lisa, Lucinda arrived in town with Lily, intent on destroying Whit and taking over his business. When Whit was murdered, Lucinda was a suspect. After Whit’s death, Lisa and Brian McColl published The Argus, and Lucinda used the newspaper she took over from Whit, City Times, to compete with them. The City Times attacked Lisa and her family over the years-publishing sensational stories about the Whit McColl and Doug Cummings murders, as well as the scandal involving Sabrina Hughes’ birth, while writing flattering articles about James Stenbeck when he returned from the dead.

Byrne's been writing a book about all this. It looks like she even has the cover ready to go.

I wouldn't doubt she'll probably be sending copies to Dump's "Special Envoys to clean up Hollywood" -- John Voight, Mel Gibson and Sylvester Stallone -- to try to get a movie out of it. .. lol!

The irony about her "weaponized Justice Department angle" is that her husband was first charged by the Trump 1.0 Justice Department back in 2020.

And just last week, the Sentencing Memorandum that the government gave the judge was signed by Trump's recent appointee, John j. Durham, now U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of New York. Durham was one of the first judicial appointments Trump made after assuming office in January. It happened within the first 24-hours. The New York Times wrote then that "Durham's appointment reflects the importance of frontline prosecutors to the administration’s plans."

That Sentencing Memorandum requested far more jail time than the judge in the case gave Martha's husband. The government was seeking 87 MONTHS in prison and a $50,000 fine. The Obama-appointed judge ended up giving him 18 months and an $11,000 fine.

I don't understand the Martha thing. I don't care about the MAGA thing, a lot of soap people are MAGA or closet MAGAs, what can you do about that? However, didn't her husband's problems all begin with the Trump Justice Department?

It is sort of eerie how parallel Martha's life has been to MAGA Sami aka Alison Sweeney.

They both were young actresses who met and married cops. And both are apparently now very conservative.

Although I think Sweeney had MAGA basically burned onto her forehead since birth and Byrne seems like someone with liberal values who became converted by marrying that no-neck monster cop husband of hers.

I wonder if Jon ever slipped her the hot beef injection.

R578 Yes. As mentioned in R577, the initial arrest and charges against Martha's husband were brought by Trump's DOJ in 2020, then being run by Trump appointee, William Barr. The press conferences covering the arrest and charges were led by Assistant Attorney General for National Security John C. Demers, who was appointed to that job by Trump in 2017, and FBI Director Christopher Wray, also installed by Trump in 2017.

It strains credulity to think that chubby cheeked Jersey princess Byrne, as Lily, could land prime dick like Hensley, Bloom and Seganti.

Why waste time on that frigid pain in the ass when Melanie Smith’s Emily was also in Oakdale and always down to fuck?

There was a poster here who called her Martha "Gingivitis" Byrne.

Melanie could just stand there and be sexy.

She was sultry and demure at the same time; I'll never understand the casting of Menighan. She was all external and overacted everything.

R560 you are conflating actors and their characters.

Watch it, toots!

[quote] It strains credulity to think that chubby cheeked Jersey princess Byrne, as Lily, could land prime dick like Hensley, Bloom and Seganti.

LMAO, ain't that the truth

If Holden and Dusty were smart they should have gotten together with Casey Peretti to have a circle jerk.

When Holden and Dusty chased Lily she looked like she still wore a retainer. Ugh.

[quote]Byrne seems like someone with liberal values who became converted by marrying that no-neck monster cop husband of hers.

If a wife takes on her husband's political beliefs, that's on the wife and has nothing to do with the no-neck monster cop husband.

Oh dear. R589, Martha reminds me of dear Sally Kirkland in this photo.

Just darling.

Byrne was my Lily for years. I hated when she left and Heather Rattray took over.

So I’m disappointed in Byrne now. Ah well.

Menighan’s look was extremely jarring the moment she first appeared onscreen and continued to be for her entire run. She would have been OK as a new Meg or a new Ellie but Emily? Absolutely not. Horrendous casting, especially as a follow up to Melanie Smith who was such a perfect match physically to Marie Masters.

Going way way way back... my grandmother said baby Betsy looked like a chimpanzee.

Quick reminder, this is the new thread.

I liked Kelley M but I completely understand why people didn't take to her after Melanie Smith.

I liked her better than some of the later truly heinous recasts (crowned by Marie Wilson as Meg).

Watch

it

toots!

KIDDO!