More marvelous Midwestern shenanigans

Continued from previous thread (please finish first before using this new one)

Nothing in Bay City, OP?

OP is that tramp Cecile r2. She was run out of Bay City and is now looking for a benefactor in one of the other Marvelous Midwestern towns.

R3 She'll chase after anything in pants!

[QUOTE]Nothing in Bay City, OP?

Let Liz Matthews (Audra Lindley version) and Ada Davis handle OP.

I feel like Solita today. Or did she end up the good one?

I still love that last scene of Michelle Forbes (on a plane?) contemplating a cigarette.

I will always cherish the line a British stage director had in a scene with Solita:

“Yes, Solita, you WERE the best English speaking actress in Venezuela. Before all the men and the cigarettes, that is.”

I think that Martha Byrne is absolutely gorgeous and the only real Lily

Super sad about her another of the million reasons I hate social media

I wanted to find whoever called themselves "Solita Carrera" on that Jossip Carolyn Hinsey thread. That bitch was my PEOPLE!

Martha Byrne’s Lily was a chubby cheeked Jersey princess with a retainer.

What would SHE know about taking care of Holden, Dusty and Damian? Equally chubby Andy Kavovit’s Paul was more her speed.

I'm the poster who wrote that Lily thought of Craig as a father, the closest she had after Martin killed himself.

Another poster accused me of conflating actors and characters.

To that, I say, "Der."

All the other Lilys were more attractive than Martha Byrne especially Noelle Beck.

It's always Lily! Lily! Lily!

What about me?

Heather Rattray was my favorite Lily. I started watching ATWT regularly on the day Lily and Derek's cabin burned to the ground. Lily went away to the plastic surgery convent and when she came back, she was played by Heather Rattray. Heather was essentially my imprint Lily.

We should do a which version did you prefer, where you pick your favorite recast, for instance:

Which Mindy was your favorite?

Which Vicky/Marley was your favorite?

Which Jamie Frame?

Which Phillip Spaulding?

And to give the Mary Stuart troll some red meat, which Patti Tate?

Etc... etc.. etc...

Mindy-Kimberly Simms.

Vicky/Marley-Anne Heche

Jamie-any of them except Laurence Lau

There’s only one Philip.

And let’s add another couple of these:

Who were favorite Tom Hughes and Margo Hughes?

Hillary and Gregg hands down

Krista and K. Simms practically played two different characters

R17, me?

OP,

I had an above-ground swimming pool. I was the epitome of Bay City society.

Does that count for nothing?

A thread of suggested thread titles?

Vicky/Marley = Anne Heche

Mindy = Kimberly Simms

Philip = The Pendulous One

Jamie = Richard Bekins (even though I wasn't watching then)

Margo and Tom = Ellen Dolan and Scott Holmes

All of you Bay City types will have to wait your turn!

Here are some more:

Which Rachel?

Which Iris?

Which Liz?

Which Donna?

Which Ed Bauer?

Which Alan-Michael?

Which Craig Montgomery?

Which Dusty?

[quote]“Yes, Solita, you WERE the best English speaking actress in Venezuela. Before all the men and the cigarettes, that is.”

The thing that never worked for me about the Solita storyline is that it was written for a 50 or 60 year old woman. And that line above sums that idea up well.

However, Michelle Forbes was 22 years old (born January 1965) when she started on GL in October 1987. She might have passed for late 20s, maybe early 30s, but just barely. But no way was she playing 50 years old, let alone 60.

So, all this talk about a late 20s actress being the greatest English speaking actress in Venezuela who had had too many men and too many cigarettes just didn't ring true. It would be a very appropriate for Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard, however.

FYI: Kim Zimmer was only 32 years old when she started playing this storyline. And even she would have been too young to have convincingly played this story of an aging actress.

Liz, you're right.

I think Sonni was supposed to be mid-30s at least. I had no idea Forbes was so young when she was cast - she definitely seemed to be playing a thirtysomething.

But those lines were definitely wack, regardless of her age. Though I think that was strike dialogue, wasn't it? That whole Sonni/Solita story during the strike was being made up as the sub writers went along.

How quickly you have all forgotten about me. I replaced that vinegary Helen Wagner for a couple episodes in 1988.

That BITCH who replaced me had better refill my hard candy dish!

Don't forget about ME!

Santa Barbara- who was your favorite?

CC

Kelly

Mason

Joe

Sophia

Santana

Gina

^actor to play the role

This is not a Santa Barbara topic.

I loved the Sonni/Solita storyline. It was probably about the end for my watching the show due to college and working P.T.

R39 Betsy was the Earth-2 Lisa.

Michelle Forbes looked like she was going to snap in half some days.

WHERE was her Emmy?

Kim Zimmer sat on Michelle’s Emmy submission tape and broke it with her fat ass.

There's really only one burning question that must be answered on this thread.

Who was YOUR favorite Sampson Girl?

R31 read the room (the title is ambiguous)

This is only for classic p&g soaps (aw, atwt, gl, sft, edge of night, some queen will add more like texas but you get the gist)

There may already be a current Santa Barbara thread. If not, I’d encourage you to start one.

[quote]This is only for classic p&g soaps (aw, atwt, gl, sft, edge of night, some queen will add more like texas but you get the gist)

You didn't mention Somerset or Lovers & Friends/For Richer For Poorer

It's also OK to mention The Doctors, Love of Life, etc. since those are kinda orphan shows.

Apparently our constituents from Bay City want to be mentioned more often!

What was the restaurant on GL that everybody went to in the 80s? AW had TOPS, As the World Turns had the Mona Lisa…

I remember on one episode of ATWT, somebody said. “Ley’s go to the Mona Lisa” and Bob was all, “Good choice!” It’s like where the hell else were you going to go? It’s the only set.

I will say Santa Barbara probably has more commonality with the P&G shows than the Bell,/ABC shows, or DAYS.

It was created by the Dobsons. Pam Long was one of the headwriters and Patrick Mulcahey wrote for years for the show.

Mary Ellis Bunim (ex-ATWT EP) was one of the EPs. John Conboy and Paul Rauch were also EPs, and both helped to get the show cancelled with their heavy handed production (like they both did at Guiding Light).

Jill Farren Phelps’ reign of terror began at Santa Barbara.

Multiple P&G actors ended up on SB (Nic Coster, Judith McConnell, Lenore Kasdorf, Frank Runyeon, Justin Deas), and several ex-SB actors ended up on GL and AW as Friends of Jill (Marcy Walker, Marj Dusay, Deas)….

I know it isn’t part of the P&G stable, but I am always less bothered seeing a Santa Barbata post here than one about All My Children or something.

Imagine being a 22 year old Michelle Forbes and having Kim Zimmer coming after you every day, both on screen and off. And that was from Day One.

At least Cynthia Watros (born 1968) was 26 when she started on GL in November1994 and had six months to get settled before having to contend with Zimmer who came back as a ghost in May 1995.

R42 I think it was Towers - the nicer one. Or Company, for the more working class crew.

Another World had Tallboys then Tops. I think there was something else before Tallboys, but I'm not sure what it was.

When Douglas owned the restaurant on ATWT, was that competing with the Mona Lisa? Or did Lisa turn the restaurant into the Mona Lisa after Douglas died?

I think l'Auberge was in there somewhere. I remember Brian Bancroft mentioning it.

Also Top of the Tower in the early days of Rachel. I assumed that later became Tops.

Didn't Mitch have a nightclub for a while? I think Rachel sculpted a mobile for it.

I miss Wired For Sound.

Tallboys was the longest running of the Bay City restaurants

L'Aubergere was also there.

And Smiley's Diner figured prominently for a while.

I liked to look at all parts of Tony Reardon.

The Mona Lisa was formerly Caroline’s.

Diana McColl’s restaurant Diana’s was dormant for awhile after the Mona Lisa opened. I think Kirk bought it and renamed it Ellie’s when he married Ellie.

I hated the Mona Lisa, it looked like a bunch of Party City crap thrown together.

Tallboys was destroyed when Felicia and Wallingford drove a semi truck through it.

I loved the Pelican Club on AW. That's where Sharly got to do her thing. I forgot about The North Woods Inn.

[quote]Didn't Mitch have a nightclub for a while? I think Rachel sculpted a mobile for it.

It was called The Connection. I don't remember if we actually saw anybody dancing in it.

I think when all the P&G soaps changed their openings, theme songs, and dropped the "the" from Edge & GL, each P&G soap also got a disco as part of the P&G Makeover Package.

Wired For Soubd was part of Trish’s (and Vanessa’s?) restaurant The Copper Kettle or The Copper Lantern, in Springfield.

Wasn’t Oakdale’s Diana’s on a yacht? Maybe docked at the Oakdale Yacht Club.

Oakdale also often mentioned Foxwood Lodge and an inexpensive motel during the 1980s.

Tom and Margo often ordered in from Pampered Palate.

Where the fuck was The Supper Club? Bay City, Springfield or Oakdale?

Guiding Light had the Blue Orchid, too.

I think 22 In Venezuelan years = 50 in American years. 🤣

Michelle didn’t look or carry herself as a 22 yr old. And damn she went toe to toe with Zimmer. She absolutely deserved an Emmy. She was as good on GL as she was when she was nominated for a Primetime Emmy.

Oh yes, the Blue Orchid. Warren's place.

There is no evidence Kim went after Michelle Forbes personally. They did not get along, but that was partly due to Michelle being overworked and not used to it. She’s said the role nearly killed her.

lol, R52. But you could barely tell as the Mona Lisa set was so dark you needed a flashlight.

I thought the Mona Lisa was a silly name. In the GL opening, everyone complains that it isn't the first shot of a disco, before the karate kick, and I think there was a disco ball in it. P&G knew how to bring in those young demos. Sandy Cory got a perm on AW. I'm not sure if any guys on ATWT or GL got perms.

[quote] Sandy Cory got a perm on AW

Chris Rich got a perm because Tony Geary on GH had a perm. AW insisted on it.

All the soaps were doing everything they could think of to replicate the success of GH in 1980-81. Love on the run stories. Sci-fi tinged stories.

FYI, Wayne Northrup also had a bit of a perm when he started as Roman on Days in fall 1981. Not as full a perm as Tony Geary, but still, Wayne's hair was curlier that it would be a few years, and decades, later.

The black guy with the saxophone on gl owned heartbreakers and then the blue moon.

Rod Arrants also got a perm as Travis on SFT, right around the time of Luke and Laura.

I don’t know if it was a perm or natural, but Stephen Yates’ Ben McFarren repped that era on GL.

Oakdale’s geologist/surveyor Brad Hollister/Peter Brouwer seemed to have a perm, or at least curly hair.

Of course, Henderson’s Travis Sentell/Rod Arrants had a perm.

Santa Barbara hadn’t premiered yet during the perm era

Wyndham had a perm!

Brad Hollister was hideous, like a 70s porn star on the skids.

Wasn’t he supposed to be ATWT’s new leading man?

Josh has curly hair......down THERE.

The vinegary Helen Wagner had a perm.

Peter Brouwer cruised me relentlessly at our local D’Agostinos in Murray Hill but his perm was a turn-off. Dennis Parker also cruised me big time at the Foodtown a few blocks north and certain alarm bells rang out for me so I didn’t think it worth the risk taking a tumble with him. The AIDS crisis was very much a concern back then.

Brad Hollister looked like he stepped out of a Joe Gage movie.

Dennis Parker had a 50 load weekend. Several times.

Ironically, the Dobsons were far more successful creatively with GL and ATWT than they were (IMHO) with Santa Barbara.

The show tried to be bigger than life and it got out of control.

But watching their stories play out in Springfield and Oakdale ... that was just the best.

Who got Santa Barbara all the Best Show Emmys? Dobsons or Pam?

The soap podcast mentioned in an earlier thread had a little snippet of the Roger/Holly rape scene (a Dobsons story) in the last episode.

Ms. Jamey Giddens is on the new podcast episode! GET IT GWORL

From what everyone says about Rita, she must've be very popular. I wish they'd have brought her back.

The hall of mirrors episode with her and clown mask Roger was fucking 🔥. So well done in every way. Top notch soap opera. Wow. It won GL the Emmy for best show, correct? If not, nothing came close to beating that.

GL's emmy...

For quite a while after that win they had that emmy slowly spinning on a turntable during the closing credits.

R81 I loved that. GL was so petty, they wanted to rub GH's nose in that win.

I loved it too. For the same reason. Nyeh nyeh nyeh

I didn’t watch GL when I checked the Guiding Light 50th anniversary book by Christopher Schemering out of the library but when Soap Opera Digest covered the 50th, I loved the article and wanted to learn more. It was a great book and I learned a lot about a show I wished I’d been watching all along. So many moments.

And they had a photo of one of the Chippendales who guested on the show. I remember his name was Scott Marlowe and he was hot as fuck.

Was he related to Hugh "Now Liz..." Marlowe?

I was watching a first season episode of “Maude” and Lee Lawson, who played Bea Reardon on GL, was on it only she didn’t look that old. I watched GL after the Reardons were gone except Chelsea. Did they age Lawson up?

That’s a particularly ugly episode of “Maude” too.

WHY were the Chippendales on Guiding Light?

Lee Lawson was only 39 when she started playing Bea!

[quote] WHY were the Chippendales on Guiding Light?

Was it during the Marland era?

R 77, Jill knew how to work the Emmy system.

A producer at Y&R knew too; that's how Kristoff, Shemar, and Christian all got nominated the same year.

It kind of backfired when Shemar won.

R89, no that was Pam.

Good podcast so far though the host is really focusing on AMC and Agnes Nixon overall.

There was a snippet in this week's episode about Tamara Tunie's time on ATWT. Very good bit about representation and how Jessica's family was being presented on screen. Worth a listen.

The first Santa Barbara Best Show Emmy was during the Dobson’s tenure. They were locked out of the show by NBC/New World and JFP took over the show before the Emmys.

It led to the fun, Soapdishesque moment when Bridget bumrushed the stage to accept the award and make a comment about being removed from the show, while JFP fumed behind her.

R93, that bum-rush never gets old!

JHFC Jill was FUMING! She looked like Brent/Marian! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

She DID look like Marian Crane!

I know I’ve told this before, here I go again:

I attended GLFC luncheons and she would show up dressed as a security guard and flank herself in front of the dais.

I thought that was the entire point of Marian's look, that it was a backhanded homage to JFP.

Someone at GL at that point had a serious bone to pick with her.

While the Emmys have honored Anne Heche, Julianne Moore, Jerry verDorn, David Canary, Kim Zimmer, and many other worthy actors, the outfit has also honored...well, I just don't want to name names.

But we know who they are.

And then, there's the list of folks who never won or were even nominated for certain roles -- McKinsey, Maureen Garrett, Grant Aleksander.

Ask most actors who they like on other shows -- or even their own -- they can't hold a decent conversation.

[quote]I attended GLFC luncheons and she would show up dressed as a security guard and flank herself in front of the dais.

Why would JFP show up dressed as a security guard? What's the point? To be incognito while in the crowd?

I don't think I've ever seen JFP wear anything other than black. So, a gray or navy secuirty guard outfit might be an interesting change.

she got incredibly lucky when SB needed a producer they bumped her up from the music department.

she went on to have long runs at GL (killed Maureen), AW (killed Frankie), went to OLTL (fans joked she'd kill Nora).

Went to GH; it became the Sonny Carly Jason Sam show. The Q's decimated. Mob rules.

Then, to Y&R because MAB, TPTB felt, needed replacing.

I've never liked a single show she has helmed (while she helmed it).

JFP always seemed to have a quota-only 2 women over35 were allowed to have a front burner storyline under her leadership. The rest were sidelined, dropped to recurring, or killed off.

Re: perms

It looks to me like Larkin Malloy (EON’s Sky Whitney) was given a perm in the summer of 1983.

Here’s a better shot of Sky’s perm from the same episode.

R99, I think she was trying to be incognito to listen to what fans were saying, etc.

The uniform was dark — probably navy blue or black. She is a short woman with very dark hair (cut pretty short at least then). I assumed she got the uniform from GL’s costume department.

PS - those luncheons were otherwise security-free.

Larkin looked ridiculous with that perm

That perm was quite trendy in the early 80s, especially 1983.

Go to a gay bar, you'd see it everywhere. Larkin just seemed to be following the crowd by getting it, even though, in hindsight, yes it looked ridiculous.

Her tenure under GL was hugely successful, but I’m not sure if it was due to the writers (they, at one time, had a who’s who of HWs writing the show all at the same time such as Long, Curlee, James Reilly, Loraine B to name a few, or her “guiding” things. It’s shocking the ratings took a long time to start catching up to the quality, then we all know the bad luck that hit in mid-92.

Why were the Dobson’s locked out at SB? I know it has probably been discussed a million times, but I’m relatively new to these threads.

They totally made Marian after Jill. I thought that was Frank Beaty up there as Marian it was uncanny!

I’ll add, in a just world, GL wouldn’t have lost those key players in key roles in ‘92 and the ratings would’ve IMO put the show a solid top 3 because it was headed that way. The show was finally getting a lot of buzz and attention it richly deserved.

Mike Poirier has penned an article about a behind the scenes mystery involving an Edge of Night writer. It’s posted on Connie’s/Marlena’s site and contains an intro written by Sharon Rose Gabet.

Mark Faulker (how I miss his EON homepage!) appears in the comments.

I really enjoyed Mike’s recent article about Capitol.

I’ll forgive Mike/Connie/Marlena for misspelling Procter & Gamble.

Alan Feinstein had a perm on The Edge of Night in the mid-70s.

[quote]Why were the Dobson’s locked out at SB? I know it has probably been discussed a million times, but I’m relatively new to these threads.

Essentially, it was a dispute over creative control. Dobsons thought they had full creative control since they had created the show, but they had sold a share of the show to production company New World Pictures.

Dobsons wanted to fire HW Anne Howard Bailey. New World wouldn't allow it as Bailey's contract stated only NBC could fire her.

Add into the mix the fact that NBC wanted to own Santa Barbara, much like ABC owned its soaps. NBC was in talks to somehow buy show from New World.

End result, in Oct. 1987 New World wouldn't let the Dobsons on the lot, which was the NBC lot in Burbank if I recall correctly. Same lot where Days shot. Lawsuit ensued. Two years later the lawsuit settled and the Dobsons were allowed back on the shot and returned as EPs.

Plenty of articles out there going into the details. Easy to google them.

Whom did they lose from GL in 1992 besides McKinsey?

[quote[Whom did they lose from GL in 1992 besides McKinsey?

Sherry Stringfield and Kimberly Sims. All three gone in the space of three months over summer 1992.

Then in January 1993, JFP killed of Maureen.

Reading the Texas book now.

Interesting thus far but JFC, there's a few proofreading errors on, like, EVERY page.

R114 All three were in huge front burner stories playing absolute pivotal roles. All three were most viewers favorites in their roles and all three were at the height of their popularity.

That wasn’t the only bad luck to hit GL in 1992, and then 1993. GL had a truck load of bad luck thenthat was mind boggling when you think about it. Just a few ex: Curlee was being edged out as HW. Many of those other great writers left to HW other soaps with Reilly being one of the most high profile when he resuscitated Days. They lost the best Hart to a hang gliding accident mere months after taking the role. Like Sherry, Nia Long had Hollywood calling and left short of her contract. It is painful to remember how good it was, how it was getting even better, had all the cylinders firing at full speed, then BAM into a wall.

Actually, GL lost those three leading ladies in the space of seven weeks.

Kimberly Simms' last air date was June 26, 1992.

Sherry Stringfield's last episode was August 3, 1992.

Beverlee McKinsey's last episode was approximately August 19, 1992.

I had the same thoughts, R113.

Sherry stayed longer than her contract, I believe, to help the transition. No matter. She wasn’t replaceable with Liz. Simms wanted a shorter contract. They said no. She likely would’ve ended up staying long term had they given it to her. Bev was, sadly, done. IDK if another HW or EP could’ve persuaded her to stay.

What does it say about an EP who loses three of her top leading ladies in the space of 7 weeks?

Only one departure was inevitable -- Sherry Stringfield was determined to get to Hollywood ASAP.

The other two could have been prevented if the show had allowed more flexibility in the contract and in the working conditions.

Oh please. Bev McCunty bitched about everything in every soap job she ever had. A constant complainer.

R115 You can also add to the bad luck Grant needing to leave n 1991 due to his parents dying so close together leaving GL without one of its popular supercouples.

[quote] You can also add to the bad luck Grant needing to leave n 1991 due to his parents dying so close together leaving GL without one of its popular supercouples.

That was sad, but at the same time......

Pam Long, for all her great pluses, was never good at equally balancing the show, and I know Grant also left because he felt very fried after five years of nonstop front burner story.

So with Beth/Phillip, Rick, Reva (and soon after Josh) all gone, there was suddenly room for a lot of other characters, which is why we saw a lot of great story emerge for all of the cast.

Bringing Beth back, with Lujack or Nick, would've been blockbuster.

I think Pam balanced the show just fine. I think TPTB dictated more Beth and Revs as they were popular, and both in supercouples.

I bet if Rick Hearst asked for a shorter contract term during negotiations, JFP would have accommodated him. And if Michael Zaslow had said he was burned out and needed time off, JFP would have accommodated him.

There was always a thread of misogyny throughout Jill’s tenures on various shows-she always seemed to have a lot more problems with her actresses than her actors.

Did her male "friends" fuck her? If they did was she wearing a paper bag over her face?

Jill for sure hated other women.

I think most female producers had to play in what was a man's world and could be very abrasive as a result. Nice likely didn't win any battles.

Based on that Texas book, Gail Kobe was quite a handful.

[quote]Did her male "friends" fuck her? If they did was she wearing a paper bag over her face?

Kale Brown did. And he did it so well, he became her boyfriend. That's why Kale moved to OLTL to create the role of Sam Rappaport, causing AW to kill off Michael Hudson.

When JFP moved to GH, Kale followed her. ABC wouldn't let her cast him on GH, but he could be heard in scenes set in the hospital making announcements on the loadspeaker.

[quote] making announcements on the loadspeaker.

Freudian slip!

[quote]I think Pam balanced the show just fine. I think TPTB dictated more Beth and Revs as they were popular, and both in supercouples.

I recall an article in one of the soap rags in the late 80s asking why Reva and Phillip were constantly front burner while so many other characters remained in the background, including Ross.

Pam Long took full responsibility and said she just always saw so many stories she wanted to write for Reva and Phillip. She didn't make any apologies about it or say she would try to write more for the supporting characters.

Ross Marler was was so seldom used during most of the 80s, especially under Pam, I kept wondering why they kept him on contract. Only real storyline he got under Pam was dating Lillian's sister Calla and then being made Dinah's father and he was essentially a supporting character in both those storylines.

It wasn't until JFP took over that Ross back a front burner character.

Guiding Light did allow Nia Long to film Boyz In The Hood. Quite shocking as she was in the beginning of a big story.

There was no keeping either her or Sherry, sadly.

GL was snake bit starting in 1991. Who put a curse on them? 😂

All writers and producers have their favorites, and actors who follow them from show to show - if they're available. I always found that to be an unfair critique of JFP. As to whether or not she hates women, who knows? I think women in general have a difficult time in entertainment, whether in front of or behind the camera.

R130 Beth, and to a lesser extent but still quite a bit, Mindy were on 4 days a week in front burner stories. Maybe Reva, Phillip, Beth had so many others in their orbits Pam knew she could weave them into their stories? So many of Pam’s characters survived to the end I’m surprised she didn’t come back to write for the show, but she didn’t.

Doug Marland and Agnes Nixon were both pretty good at keeping the entire cast engaged. Even if a character didn’t have a storyline of their own, they were used often enough that you didn’t think of them as being sidelined.

There were episodes in Oakdale, in which 32 characters had a speaking part, mainly exposition through gossip at either the Mona Lisa or the Snyder Farm Kitchen and Eavesdropping Porch.

I loved that, R135.

I started watching the show when Lily found out Iva was her biological mother. Eileen Fulton was coming back from a vacation so they used some time at the Mona Lisa for characters to catch Lisa up on recent events. It was very helpful. This was also the episode when Tonio and Meg got married.

It was also helpful as that was the summer of Ollie North’s hearing which pre-empted shows for what seemed like a month. Remember? Every show on every network was off. Then the following summer was the writer’s strike which derailed a lot of storylines.

[quote] GL was snake bit starting in 1991

Summer 1992. It had a good 18 months, a year of that was perfection.

Then the three departures listed above, then Maureen was killed off, and a year later the show was a sloppy mess and something called Tangie Hill was supposed to be captivating us all.

[quote]and something called Tangie Hill was supposed to be captivating us all.

and something called BUZZ COOPER and Tangie Hill was supposed to be captivating us all.

Fixed it for you.

[quote] Only real storyline he got under Pam was dating Lillian's sister Calla and then being made Dinah's father and he was essentially a supporting character in both those storylines.

Calla was such a dreadful bore. Being hung up on Ross seemed to be her modus operandi.

I was surprised to learn in the Texas book that Lisby Larson's character there was a linchpin of the show and more exciting.

Lisby's Paige Marshall was infinitely more exciting than Calla Matthews. I was constantly amazed at how boring Calla was giving how fascinating Paige was.

But boring Calla also gave birth to the super-boring Jesse Matthews.

Lillian and Beth should have been saying nightly prayers of gratitude they were not as yawn inducing as Calla and Jesse.

R139 oh yes Paige was a pretty significant character. I never really watched GL so I don't recall seeing her in anything else.

Lisby... quite an odd name.I hated the daughter and uncle Simon

Wasn’t one of Calla’s big storylines that she had genital herpes?

^ syphilis.

Jesse should have been a villainous character.

While Calla (and especially Jessie) was boring she served some storyline purpose… her exe (Walter) had given her an STI which caused her to distrust men, and subsequently browbeat Jessie. Mainly, I believe, they served as a major red-herring for the mystery surrounding Vanessa’s and Ross’s child.

Calla was also a social climber with sometimes humorous results including being Alexandra’s personal assistant, trying on Alex’s clothes, etc.

The character of Jessie was originally intended to be India. I’ve always wondered if Mary Kay Adams auditioned and if her glory upended Long’s original idea.

In summer 1984, Mary Kay Adams and Kristi Farrell both auditioned for the role of India Raines. They were both superb in their auditions and screen tests. Betty Rae and TPTB liked them both but obviously had to chose one.

So, TPTB decided to create a new character for Kristi Farrell to play -- Reva's never before mentioned sister Roxie.

Meanwhile, TPTB decided that Mary Kay had a bit more glamour and sophistication than they had originally envisioned for Beth's cousin, India Raines. So, they changed to role to India von Halkein, making her Alexandra's step daughter who was out for revenge against her step mother.

Then a year later, they would bring Beth's cousin to town in the form of Jesse Matthews.

Betty Rea knew what was up!

Farrell would’ve been spicier as India Raines, though change the name. That character needed something added to it.

R140 Lillian and Beth were never yawning inducing. Beth had some edge, a great portrayer, and top stories. Lillian was fine, too.

There's no way Lily would pull the prime cock she did. No way. Not with Martha playing her.

I always wondered why it wasn't Mindy, instead if Beth, who all the men fell in love with. But Judi could look very pretty, had big boobs, and Beth was very intelligent. Mindy was a spoiled bratty princess. Until Simms. Beth Chamberlin's Beth was definitely a person all the men would want. Similar to Emily on ATWT.

ATWT was the show where you could really tell gay men were in charge.

Holden and Dusty looked like they stepped off the set of a Falcon video shoot.

R151, you’re totally right about that.

I know I am/was in the minority, but I was all about Andy and Paul (Kavovit).

I did not know the actress who played Lacey Bauer has died.

I don't remember her and I should

R153, that’s sad — thank you for posting.

Very unpopular opinion: I liked Lacey Bauer.

R154 not really, she was on for about two months tops and then got written out.

R154, she was a very petite blond — was around in 1987 for the 50th — I think she went up in the hot air balloon that Alan-Michael arrived in.

Who was she? A cousin?

Johnny Bauer's sister I think.

Ok thanks

I remember she had really big eyes. I guess Lacey was meant to be a younger version of Mindy only she was a Bauer. And I think it was mentioned on screen that she was an Olympic gymnast hopeful.

By August 23, 1983 Edge of Night’s Cliff fell prey to the perm trend while Gavin sported a fresh cut that looked great and Sky’s perm was already being tamed — Monticello may have had bipolar stylists.

GL was getting a good teen scene there in ‘87, but then wrote out Dinah, Lacey, and Cam. All that was left was Harley and Alan-Michael. I wonder why? Did we really need more Rusty and Rose? Boring asf. Frank? Couldn’t act for shit.

GL was trying to recreate the Four Musketeers with Dinah, Cam, Lacey and Alan-Michael.,

They were no Philip, Beth, Rich and Mindy.

Am I correct in remembering that Harley Davidson Cooper’s name was heard for a long time before we met the character? Then she went into labor and we didn’t see her again for a while?

I actually did not like it when Stringfield replaced Elizabeth Dennehy as Blake. Not like Dennehy was a power actress but I didn’t like Blake overnight becoming such a bitch and sleeping with Alan-Michael.

R163 They didn't write out Cam, he was still on for several months, maybe almost a year after Harley arrived. As R164 said they had a bit of a Harley/AM/Dinah/Cam story - but they did write out both Cam and Dinah once it was clear that Harley and AM were the story.

R166 It was jarring at first, especially because if I remember the recast happened not too too long after Blake and Philip's aborted wedding and Roger Thorpe's return.

R166 Sherry was so green at first, but damn did she catch on quick. I didn’t like her at first. Within 6 months she was on fire and got better and better. She could do such complex emotions so easily. Such a shame she threw her very successful career away.

"Nothing says lovin' like a Spaulding in the oven!"

R169, my friend and I still quote that line to one another!

I remember Stringfield’s arrival (her was much longer in her first episodes) and the physical change from ED was jarring, but boy, she quickly became Blake/Christina.

Her HAIR was much longer…

I’m glad they made Blake bad. Sherry did bad, but complex, expertly. But when they made Blake more complicated, Sherry nailed it. Such a great actress. Another one who deserved an Emmy. On ER, her character was supposed to be the calm, cool one, so even though she was nominated for 3 Primetime Emmys, winning was a bit difficult for her given her character’s traits. She deserved to win for S2, though. I think many thought she was robbed.

I remember the huge buildup for Gavin Kruger on ATWT. His name was mentioned for months by Lucinda. It seemed he was going to be some sort of high finance European tycoon in the James Stenbeck mold. But they cast a boring Dutch actor who was gone within a matter of months and replaced him with a boring cookie cutter American who was many years younger. And I think he lasted a year or so at most.

Elizabeth Dennehy and her blonde perm gave off way too much of a Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction vibe.

"I'll bake a cake."

LMAO

Eleni: What kind of a woman would sleep with a man and both his sons?

Blake: Me!

(and Reva, of course)

Sherry and Melina, two future primetime stars, going at it. You can see why both were bound for it. I hated Eleni’s accent, though. It worn thin after awhile. Melina is gorgeous. So is Sherry.

R175 Maureen Garrett is so fucking good. She has “it”. She has chemistry with everyone. Her and Sherry were especially great together.

I remember when they brought Roger back after a decade. Alex and Fletcher were on that island and Roger was wearing a mask and being all mysterious. And then one day the episode opens with Roger fishing on the beach with no mask and it was like, “Oh, I guess it’s Roger.”

But when he was revealed in the church, Holly’s reaction was fantastic.

R175, R176 those clips are gold. Thanks so much for posting!

R178 — you nailed it; especially your insights regarding Maureen Garrett.

R179 That last scream of hers should be as iconic as the Fountain scene is for Reva. It was so guttural. R180 Maureen G was a very pretty woman. Very elegant. I love the way she moves. She flows. She’s such a good actress her comments to each actor in that scene is different based on her relationship with them. That may seem small, but it is certainly not. Her inflections change depending on who she’s talking to. She always looks classy. She seems like a movie star. Seriously. She has that quality.

And Garrett says she would show up at the studiio in her country lesbian clothes and they’d have to femme her up.

They should have Maureen G play Carrie Coon’s mother in something. They’d be a great mother-daughter match.

R182 I don’t see it. I don’t see how she could ever be butch. Then she’s an even better actress than I thought! If I were a lesbian, hot damn she’d be one helluva catch!

The show and/or Melina wisely dialed down the accent after a while.

A great scene between Garrett and Liz Keifer - I think this was in the first year Keifer was on.

I liked some of LK's time as Blake but they definitely made her way too sympathetic too soon, mostly to push the Ross/Blake coupling.

Here's an un-glam Maureen, but she still looked pretty great 5 years ago.

I'm old enough to remember complaints about her being too plain after the original blonde bimbo Holly. All soon forgotten with her natural charisma and superior acting ability .

I’m a lezzy and I’d totally eat out Mo Garrett!

I want Rick Hearst inside me quite deeply.

Damn, Jerry looks good and is fucking fabulous here.

Jon Hensley is almost 60 and still looks damn good.

[quote] Jon Hensley is almost 60 and still looks damn good.

MAGA Martha Byrne could play his mother at this point and it would look believable.

That looks like the headshot Hensley was using when he was hired for a recurring role on B&B ca. 2012.

Alan Michael landed in a parachute from a plane. He didn't ride in the hot air balloon.

Pam knew how to introduce characters

The dumbass stupid cunt CuntMessaDumbassatella git reprimanded at SON. The dumb bitch is demented.

Jennifer Ashe on DL fave Kathleen Widdoes

[quote]Alan Michael landed in a parachute from a plane. He didn't ride in the hot air balloon. Pam knew how to introduce characters

Yes, Alan-Michael did arrive in Springfield on July 4, 1987 by parachuting into the Bauer Barbeque, but that was not Pam Long's doing. The HW at that point was Joseph D. Manetta and Sheri Anderson.

Pam dido't return as HW until September 1987. One of her very first episodes introduced Harley Davidson Cooper going to the hospital in labor, about to give birth to the child she would give up for adoption (Susan/Daisy).

Incidentally, A-M wasn't the first character ever introduced by parachuting into a family event. That distinction goes to Eden Capwell on Santa Barbara. When Marcy Walker debuted as Eden on SB in September 1984, the Dobsons had Eden parachute into her father's birthday party. However, she overshot the Capwell estate and landed in the next door Lockridge estate instead.

R198 I still wish some of those episodes from Sept. 1987 were on YT. The first weeks Long's work were shown were SO good.

I can't help but think that Pam's work started airing a little bit earlier than when we saw her name on the credits.

Let's face it, 1986 was a tough year for GL fans.

Sure, we had the awesome returns of Peter Simon, Chris Bernau, Robert Newman, and Grant Aleksander but the writing was ... not good.

I think it was June, 1987?

We saw Josh and Reva in Vanessa's backyard. The fountain was there, but it was dry. There were a bunch of leaves. I remember watching those scenes, thinking this is Pam. I wonder if she's back.

Pam hit the ground running. The introduction of Sonni drove a wedge between Josh and Reva. Alan was hiding that Josh was Marah's true father. Gosh, there was a scene between Alex and Alan. Don't ask me how I remember this dialogue...Alan blasting Alex, saying that if the truth came out about Marah he'd go to jail. "I broke the law! And Marah's really daddy is back at Lewis Oil! We know what sweet revenge those savages are capable of!:

Alex: "WE'LL FIND A WAY TO KEEP THE DAMAGE DOWN. We're not going to lose our company to the likes of Reva Shayne!"

FIRE. We were spoiled!

Was that when the opening theme was really crappy?

Some really nice photos on the Locher Room social media pages of a few actors from circa 1986.

R200 She might have had some input in a few bits of story before she officially was credited for matrial (Sept 1987).

I know the 50th anniversary stuff was playing out in June and July and that stuff was pretty lame and tepid, sadly.

*material

Cleveland Amory's TV Guide Review of The Edge of Night.

Cleveland Amory was an old cunt.

R195, that’s right. Then Lacey climbed into a hot air balloon (the Bauer BBQ was at Johnny’s flight center that year) and it wound up becoming untethered… did she float up into the Springfield sky with AM or with Cam?

Lacy flew away with Cameron.

The one I can't believe who never came back on was a teen Stacy Chamberlin (AKA Kelly Louise Reardon), Nola's daughter.

Seeing how badly they screwed up Anthony aka J Chamberlain as a character, perhaps that's a good thing.

Was on a retro TV Facebook site and saw this

1986 was not a great year in Springfield. Soap Opera Digest said GL had gotten pretty disappointing in 1986 in their year end issue. And SOD was baffled that the writers award went to the GL team after mistakenly being given to YR at the Daytime Emmys.

Wow! Look at those 1969 ratings at r210.

Nothing but P&G shows at the top of the list.

Most of 1986 was not great, though bringing back Chris Bernau, Peter Simon and of course His Pendulousness were all good moves in the right direction.

Wasn’t GL’s1986 Writing Emmy for shows Pam wrote in 1985?

R214 I think GL was very good up until summer of 1985. That’s when Pam took her leave, but she is still credited as HW for all the hated Infinity story. Maybe she was having a hard time late in pregnancy? Making Kurt and Mindy this super couple, or trying to, was not wise. I guess she knew Vincent was leaving so there would be no Lujack/Beth.

But why WHY actually kill kill Lujack? She wasn’t headwriting when they “killed” Beth, but the HW left the door wide open for her return. I’ll never understand that.

R215 I’ll never understand why Pam didn’t leave the door open for Lujack’s return is what I meant. Did Pam leave the door open for any character she killed to return besides Reva?

Pam left on maternity leave in late December 1985/early January 1986. When she left, her co-HW Jeff Ryder took over as HW for about six months when he was replaced by Mary Ryan Munisteri and Ellen Barrett.

When Pam returned from maternity leave, P&G asked her to go to Search for Tomorrow to see if she could save the show. She was there as HW for the final six months, but couldn't save it.

Jeff Ryder was a NBC daytime executive who knew Pam from her time as an actress on Texas. In fact, Ryder was one of the ones who had to give his approval for hiring Pam as HW of Texas. After he left NBC, Ryder joined Pam on GL in late 1984. Pam and Ryder were co-HWs on GL throughout 1985.

I attribute much of the mess that was beginning to happen on GL starting in late 1984 -- including killing off Hillary Bauer rather than just sending her out of town -- to network interference and/or Ryder's ideas.

I would say that many of the disappointing 1985 GL storylines -- including the colossal mess that was Infinity, the less than stellar introduction of Kyle Sampson and the subsequent Kyle and Reva parachuting into the Mennonite community in a direct rip off of the movie Witness, the rushed Mindy-Kurt romance and subsequent wedding on location in time for November sweeps, the disappointing music career storyline for Lujack and so much more -- were due to Ryder's ideas or network interference or some combination of the two.

As for killing off Lujack, Pam said in an interview years after killing off Lujack that she was a young and green writer in late 1985 and believed it when actors said they were done with daytime. Thus she killed Lujack off in a grand November sweeps storyline. She said in that interview that is she could do it over again, she would have left the door open for Lujack to somehow return, just in case Vince Irrizarry changed his mind.

R217 She killed him in December, technically. Remember how Nick had “Dec 4th” issues?

R214, if the clip is to be believed, Pam won the DT Emmy for writing the country club dinner between Kyle and the Lewises in which red wine was spilled, prompting Vanessa to remember she caused Reva's miscarriage. (She saw blood in the snow...ewww.)

Reva went on off: "HB! How can you say that! Our baby was a MIRACLE! Vanessa, your baby is alive and laughin' and breathin' ... and MY baby is dead because YOU KILLED IT!"

Across town, the verdict in Lujack's trial for killing Andy Ferris was handed down. Beth got hysterical. India quipped over Beth's histrionics: "I've seen more compelling drama on reruns of Perry Mason!""

Last story was Rick in Alaska yelling at some day player Betty Rea find hooker who knew about Roxie.

I thought ATWT had a strong chance. Margo v. Babs.

Let’s talk about Brent/Marian. I think that was the best soap plot in all history.

R219 Didn’t Beth accuse Alexandra of lying on the stand?

R220 One of them for sure.

I'm not sure how much Pam was actually involved in writing in the Fall of 1985. It didn't feel like her writing. Ex: The writing for Beth seemed off. She was one of her favorites, and protected her fiercely.

It's shitty P&G shifted Pam over to SFT, when GL was suffering, and already was dropping hard in the ratings. Yeah, let's take the show that was top 4/5 against heavy competition, and take away its HW when it started to suffer creatively and in the ratings. Make it make sense. SFT was already gone gone gone.

I think part of the issue was that Pam was pregnant, and that was not something most writers or producers ever did in those days. If it were 2025 and not 1985 Pam would have had a case against P&G, but when she took a leave from GL they sort of had the right to decide to hire a new HW. Which they did.....and did......and did.......and did, until Pam came back in 1987.

I thought Pam was there at the end of SEARCH (later in 1986 -- not 1985)

I don't think Alex lied on the stand; she came clean to try to save BRANNNDONNNN!

Cynthia Dozier (Sp?) played Alicia Rhomer (sp?), the reporter who covered the trial.

She yelled at a camerman before a live take and then when she went live she dropped her voice, acting all concerned "Hello..."

Funny.

Wow, the episode R224 posted is also the one with a dedication to Charita Bauer.

Nancy looks extra vinegary there, r226. Probably because that tramp Joyce Colman is too close to her.

Sorry, technical issues.

Here's the ATWT image R226 was referencing.

Sadly, it looks like We Love Soaps is now offline......including the archive of all its content.

Pam just took a leave. She was still HW of GL, but her name wasn't used because it wasn't her material, correct? She never left as in wasn't employed by them. I guess since P&G were technically her employers they could move her wherever, but it was a bad decision to not let her come back to GL instead of trying to get her to save Search since GL was approaching a huge milestone 50th anniversary, and it was suffering badly. Summer and Fall of 1986 wasn't terrible, but Lord 1987 was until Pam came back.

That's sad to hear. Lot of good content over there. We Love Soaps used to be my first stop in my daily web surfing.

But Roger clearly got burned out about a decade ago and just completely abandoned the site at that point.

Much of the content should still be available on the Wayback Machine.

[quote]Pam just took a leave. She was still HW of GL, but her name wasn't used because it wasn't her material, correct? She never left as in wasn't employed by them.

Yes, Pam was on maternity leave the first few months of 1986, but still employed by P&G. So, when she was ready to come back to work, P&G asked her to go to Search instead.

However, after Search was cancelled at the end of 1986, apparently Pam was unemployed for 6-8 months until she returned to HW GL. Her first episode aired on Sept. 10, 1987.

I'm not sure when she left in 1985 but the show went from really solid to....Infinity and Sampson Girl really quickly.

Seems like there was a lot of network influence then too, I remember after Reva jumped off the bridge she was supposed to be in a "Beauty and the Beast" story with a homeless guy who'd end up being Cain (played by Jerry Lanning) but they scrapped that and made Cain crazy instead.

When Alan first came back things looked promising but by late 1986/early 1987 the show was spinning its wheels. Philip was in a chemistry free relationship with Chelsea and Josh and Reva were pictured when SOD called GL the most disappointing show of 1986.

Fuck, the budget for this episode is probably what a year of GH costs to make.

Way to go,P&G. Don't allow the great HW of your marquee show, which was declining rapidly, to return to right the ship quickly. No, send her to a DOA show instead. Genius! Then, take an additional half year to bring her back! Brilliant. Damage was done. Ratings never really recovered.

Was Pam Long responsible for the flood storyline on “Search for Tomorrow”? Soap Opera Digest praised it and said the story was good as were the practical effects. They acknowledged the gambit almost worked but it was a little too late for Henderson.

GL may not have been so great in 1986-1987 but “As the World Turns” sure was with the Douglas Cummings mystery, the Tad Channing murder, the gradual introduction of the Snyder clan, “Who is Lily’s mother?”, the 30th anniversary, and the dramatic return of James Stenbeck.

I still think CBS had some of the strongest shows.

Yes, ATWT from late 85 through early/mid 88 was on FIRE.

R236 Exactly, all the more reason to get GL’s great HW back, so viewers don’t tune out for another soap after the red hot ATWT. They didn’t, and viewers did.

Good point r238, especially since GH was in a rebuilding phase in 1987 with the departure from of Gloria Monty and Pat Falken Smith, while OLTL was peaking around that time as well.

Bringing Pam and the characters she wrote in 1983/84 when GL shot to the top of the ratings may have helped GL rebound.

If you can't tell, I was also the OP of the Retro TV Listings post. Just found that page on Facebook.

It's mostly nighttime stuff but a few soap things.....including this one.....another ATWT ad

I don't remember a thing about this one

R239 OMG their decision looks worse and worse. What dumbasses were running P&G? Did they hate Guiding Light? It was heading towards its 50th, yet they didn’t feel like its plummeting ratings and quality weren’t a red alert to get Pam back to follow surging ATWT? Especially if GH was having issues. Huge mistake. Huge.

CBS had a love hate relationship with ATWT and GL. They really wanted those shows to be all youthful like GH and the Agnes Nixon shows, and they spent most of the last 25+ years of those programs trying to make those shows more hip, which only succeeded in chasing away the existing viewers.

R243 I disagree to an extent. Guiding Light was first to very successfully make the show hip and bring in popular young actors. Marland started it in 1980, and Pam took the ball and ran to further ratings gold with the Four Musketeers. Then Marland did the same for ATWT. Both shows successfully avoided being seen as old after that. By then, those other shows weren’t exactly youngins. I think the only shows that were truly seen as for the young crowd after that were DAYS and BB. Days, especially. By the late 80s the others seemed to be on equal footing as far as perception, to a degree. Guiding Light had a really great young group in the late 90s/early 00s, so many of whom went on to primetime/movie stardom.

In the 80s both shows did great in the ratings IDK why P&G treated them the way they did.

P&G behaved like a boss who doesn’t know anything about the business they’re in, but still insists on providing their wrongheaded feedback on the work being done.

For example-look at what happened when they insisted that CBS move Edge of Night in the early 70s from its late after timeslot, to keep it in a block with their other shows. The ratings plummeted because they lost their audience.

P&G were, let’s say it out loud, the Trump of daytime TV. Loud and opinionated but incompetent.

They royally fucked Guiding Light in 1986. It never recovered ratings wise. Went from a perpetual top 4/5 show, to a perpetual #7/8 even when the show was amazing from 1988- 1992.

I think part of that loss was that 1986-87 was the first round of affiliates dropping GL. So it really never could go back to #1 or #2.

In 1993, a chunk of stations pushed GL to mornings, which really started the slow death rasp for the show.

I didn't know affiliates were dropping it that early.

There was a batch of them all owned by the same company that dropped them circa 1986, if I remember right. Mostly mid sized or smaller markets but still made a dent. It had nothing to do with the storylines but I believe it was something about time slots for talk shows....this was really when the whole Oprah vs everyone else competition was heating up.

Almost all the ones that dropped GL or pushed the show to early morning timeslots in 1993 were BIG markets. All CBS owned and operated stations. The fact that it survived until 2009 after that is a bit of a miracle.

Helen Wagner died on this date in 2010 (15 years ago).

I’m still mad they didn’t pre-tape a final scene for Wagner to hold in reserve just in case.

Flags were lowered at vinegar manufacturers nationwide.

I don’t get the “vinegar” comments associated with Wagner.

R252, I’m right there with you — what a nice bookend that would have provided. (I have to say, though, I didn’t hate the globe as much as most.)

R254 A few threads ago the comment was made about how stern and prissy Wagner was, and then someone said her perfume was vinegar, or something like that, and it sort of stuck.

This could have been any number of writers but was likely either Mary Ryan Munisiteri or Joseph Manetta.

Such a waste - Jerry Lanning wasted on a cardboard villain. And I forgot entirely that Claire was ever in a Reva story.

You look up the word “vinegary” in the dictionary, and there’s an image of Nancy Hughes looking at someone with disapproval.

I wish Alan had been able to interview Helen for the Locher Room. She would have told him off for getting his facts wrong.

R257, if I remember correctly Cain dropped Claire off the bridge that Reva-bend was housed under. I think she landed on her head and suffered from brain damage that could only be rectified by Keir Dullea… in the meantime, she couldn’t clear her exe Dr. Rick of some kind of malpractice. I think Claire the. Fell in love with the droll doctor and they exited Springfield together.

When the train crash happened - unleashing Cain and other carnies on Springfield - was there a connection to Dinah?

Ah yes, Keir Dullea, gone tomorrow! I'd forgotten he was on GL.

Such a waste of Jerry Lanning's talents to have him come on as crazy Cain.

Of course, this all happened while Pam was on maternity leave. She would not have let her former leading man be used so poorly.

I suspect, Pam originally intended to pair Zimmer and Jerry Lanning in a romantic situation. And that somehow evolved into Crazy Cain while she was away from the show.

Don't forget, while Pam was off on maternity leave, show also changed EPs -- Gail Kobe was shown the door in March 1986 and Joe Wilmore came in.

I know apparently Pam had conceived Billy Lewis with Jerry in mind. Cain played very differently at first so you could tell it was one of those "writer or producer has changed and this story is being wildly retconned" moments.

"You look up the word 'vinegary' in the dictionary, and there’s an image of Nancy Hughes looking at someone with disapproval."

The best Nancy Hughes moment ever was when John Dixon barged into Bob and Kim's library and loudly announced Julie Wen-DELL's abortion. Nancy's jaw dropped to the floor, and she LITERALLY clutched her pearls!

Whatever became of the actress that played Donna on AMC aka Billy Clyde Tuggel's speed bag?

died in 2019

[quote] Much of the content should still be available on the Wayback Machine.

Wayback Machine is part of the Internet Archive, which is also in danger.

Oh, how 1984., r268.

Control history and rewrite history as needed to suit our political purposes. .

That's too bad. Thanks, R267

What happened? Did we run out of material from 1987 to talk about? Let’s start over in the 70s then.

[quote]Did we run out of material from 1987 to talk about? Let’s start over in the 70s then.

How many times did Walter cry into the scarf?

Rita McLaughlin Walter suffered no fools. Vinegary, hard candy sucking Helen Wagner was not a fan.

She dead too

I would like some more stories about behind the scenes cuntiness, please!

The Queen of Cunt was old Irna.

Crazy Irna! “Retired” (fired) to go write her memoirs which never materialized.

I was only a teen but thought Jerry Ver Dorn was quite handsome as Ross.

Jerry ver Dorn was very sexy when the Blake/Ross story started. I remember Soap Opera Digest suggesting he do a calendar at the time.

Jerry definitely pushed all my daddy buttons.

Ross Marler first came to Springfield in March 1979 to act as Roger Thorp's defense attorney when Roger was charged with raping his wife, Holly.

Ironic to think with the beginning that Ross would end up dating Holly and marrying Blake.

They should do a biopic about Irna Phillips called ‘Guiding Light’.

I like it r282. And different chapter titles could play on the names of her other soaps.

Opening credits to GL in June of 1989.

That look on Sonni’s face…

That peppy version of the GL 1983 theme was godawful.

The 1983-1985 theme was a masterpiece in music and the montages they used.

That horrible 1987-1991 theme. My god…..

R284 or was it Solita?

R287 👏👏👏

R286, ironic as the show was on fire second half of 87 to imho early 1991

Reva said to Alex (looking out for Sonni) re: her interest in Will who had amnesia, "you seem awfully concerned about a man you barely know."

Alexandra: "Funny. I was just about to say the same thing to you."

I think that was Solita in that opening.

I'd almost forgotten about Meredith Reade!

I used to think Rusty was lowkey hot but he looks hideous w/ that mullet.

R272, God, how OLD are we?

I was a kid and I remember watching AW every day; pre-Lemay to post (and then I went over to GH).

Lemay wrote in his memoir he thought Walter had some kind of odd fetish with that scarf.

The number of times there were flashbacks to Liz picking up that statue and she started to club Wayne over the head.

Then, there was a day when the clip extended and Wayne stopped her at the last minute. Liz was innocent!

When the jury was ready to announce Lenore's verdict, Walter had the scarf with him in a manilla envelope, seemingly ready to confess to the murder if Lenore was found guilty.

Jury declared Lenore innocent. Everyone is jubilant. Walter accidently dropped the envelope on the floor and then it gets kicked around the courtroom by all the people moving about. Walter scrambled to retrieve the envelope before someone else picked it up and looked inside to discover the scarf.

Short clips: At the end of each one Solita and Reva face off. Really good.

Part 4 of Reva/Solita

Part 5 of Reva/Solita. Reva takes her to see Sonni. Both are so good.

What was the story of Will Breen? Did he become ex-gay or was he not gay/bi? Was he fired from ATWT or did he quit? IIRC, he had a beef with Doug Marland.

Frank Beaty allegedly became ex-gay. I don’t think Joseph Breen was ever gay.

Breen may be bi or it may have been a case of "fuck anything when I'm high" but he was married for years to Carlene Carter. I just learned by looking at the Wikipedia page that they were separated around 2018 or so and got divorced in 2020.

I remember Breen was supposed to be doing a documentary film about his life, but it got a pitiful amount of funding in a GoFundMe type situation.

Very sad how he got shunned by daytime. There's been others living with HIV or AIDS since, but all of them have stayed "in the closet" about it.

Breen had great chemistry with Mary Kay Adams. Liz Hubbard and Ellen Dolan-there was a bit of a flirtation between Margo and Scott when he came onboard. And his character gave Eileen Fulton her best storyline in years.

As a reminder, here is a list of all the P&G soaps:

Another World (1964-1999)

As the World Turns (1956-2010)

The Brighter Day (1954-1962)

The Catlins (1983-1985)

The Edge of Night (1956-1984)

The First Hundred Years (1950-1952)

From These Roots (1958-1961)

Guiding Light (1952-2009)

Lovers and Friends / For Richer, for Poorer (1977-1978)

Our Private World (1965)

Search for Tomorrow (1951-1986)

Somerset (1970-1976)

Texas (1980-1982)

Young Doctor Malone (1939-1960)

Breen had great chemistry with Michelle Forbes and Kimberley Simms.

May 4 was the 61st anniversary of the premier of Another World.

Debuted on May 4, 1964.

It’s THE Guiding Light

That dumb stupid Cuntessadumbassatella is driving everyone crazy onnthe various soap boards. The dumb cunt is as stupid as they come. Poor Erroll, having to deal with that stupid twat.

Breen had chemistry with hiv and aids.

Who wrote Nola’s movie fantasies? Was that Pam Long?

Doug Marland.

Pam long tried to continue doing the movie fantasies but was not very successful.

Were Nola’s movie fantasies popular? It seems like it would get on my nerves.

R308

I think they sound fun, R309. I doubt they were every week.

R309 They were. But they were not all the time. And they fit into story very well.

I almost remember bits and pieces of how Nola came to be. Lisa Brown was auditioning for another character, Morgan maybe? While she was wrong for that part they realized her talent and Marland wrote her in as the daughter at the boarding house where Roger was living. I think she brought Roger his meals.

Someone else probably knows this story in more accurate detail.

No idea how Lisa Brown got cast, but Nola and Bea were first introduced when Roger was hiding out at the boarding house.

Nola debuted on the Jan. 7, 1980 episode, while Morgan Richard didn't debut until April 8, 1980. So, it's possible Lisa Brown was originally auditioning for Morgan, but I doubt it.

I'm very surprised Zimmer hasn't made a career out of being a character actress. She can cry extremely well on cue which is huge. She can do comedy and drama. She can do intense or subtle.

Zimmer.....subtle? Well, yeah, but it's not her default setting.

R309 - I believe they were very popular. I was young, and didn’t know many of the movies they were referencing. But I liked them a lot. I think older viewers really loved them.

I know one fantasy played out as Nola was on the bus to leave town and get an abortion.

There was a Wizard of Oz one (unsure when that was).

As she and Quinton were getting together there was a Now, Voyager one (I assume this is when Bette Davis saw it and wrote Lisa Brown a letter saying 'Tell Nola she has IT!')

I remember one with sailors and John Wesley Shipp singing "Shipmates together, don't give up the ship..."

One of my favorite Sonni scenes — Josh sees her after thinking she had died.

The music and the direction, I believe, are stellar.

It’s also hard for me to imagine that this was shot in a tiny, probably basement, studio.

R318, the Wizard of Oz fantasy may have been the last one. It also may not have been written by Marland, but I’m not sure.

Nola had given birth to Anthony James but was perplexed about what name to give him (which tracks since both of her children, much like Michelle, had name changes)… she dreams of being Dorothy and trekking to the wizard for guidance. Along the way she meets familiar faces as the scarecrow, lion, etc who offer advice.

Connected to this story was a promotion where viewers could call in (I think a 1-900 number) to choose the baby’s name.

R320 Wow! What a find. Haven't seen that for eons.

A small snippet of what R321 mentioned

More Lisa

My young gayling self-had such a crush on Michelle Forbes.

Here’s some bts GL that was being filmed for a student’s school report.

My favorite part is Alexandra Neil’s comment at 21:15

Help Nola

Help Nola #2

Tony Reardon in uniform had my teenage hormones in overdrive.

I remember my mother letting me call to vote on the baby name. I voted for Anthony James but really wished it had been James Anthony.

Mike and Hope Bauer crossed over to As the World Turns for a year once. I would have loved to see a crossover in the 80s. Imagine the two poor Marland families, the Reardons and the Snyders, meeting and the split-screen when Nola met Iva.

Does anybody remember the order in which the Snyders were introduced? I know it was long ago. Was it Holden when he jumped down from the rafters or was Iva on before that? I would assume they were the first two and then Emma and Seth, then Meg ran back home one windy night and Caleb and Ellie were a couple of years later.

R331, I think that was Another World — maybe at the launch?

R332, I think you have it.

R333, now that I think about it, I think you’re right. It was some damn World.

[quote]Mike and Hope Bauer crossed over to As the World Turns for a year once.

Yes, it was Another World. Mike and Hope moved to Bay City for a year, from Feb 1966 to Feb 1967, according to the Another World Home Page.

Agnes Nixon was the HW of AW as well as GL, which was still 15 minutes at that point. So, it was easy for her to send Mike and Hope from Springfield to Bay City.

Mike came to work in John Randolph's law firm, but left when he found himself falling for Pat Matthews Randolph, John's wife.

R332 Holden was definitely first and I believe Iva was next, then Seth and Emma soon after.

It was Holden, then Emma, then Iva, then Seth, then Josh, and finally Ellie and Caleb.

Iva showed up in 1985 right after Emma. Meg showed up in January, 1986; and Seth showed up in the spring of 1986.

Yes, Emma was in the farmhouse kitchen when Iva reappeared after many years. It was a very upsetting reunion for both.

Iva’s hair and makeup in her first year on the show really suited her. She looked like a poor runaway ex-porn star. She looked more refined by the time she attacked Josh with the pitchfork in 1987.

R317, Nola's fantasies went back to movies that were about 40 years old.

I remember black and white movies being on TV Saturday afternoons when I was a kid.

Now, Nola's fantasies are over 40 years old.

So sad that she and Marland and Michael Tylo are all gone.

She gave a quote to one of the soap sites when Tylo passed away. She was gone not long after:

After a brief run as Lord Peter Belton on Another World in 1980, Tylo was cast as Guiding Light’s enigmatic Quinton McCord, a mystery man who employed pregnant Nola Reardon (Lisa Brown) at his home. Quint and Nola went on to become a dynamic supercouple, re-enacting classic movie scenes (including Casablanca) before making their way to the altar.

“With [head writer] Doug [Marland]’s words, Michael and I made magic together with Quint and Nola– I know it will never be repeated again on that scale,” Brown tells Soap Hub. “I’ll miss him.”

Still can't believe Michael and Lisa are both gone. So quickly for Lisa. Apparently they found cancer and she was gone within 2 months time.

ATWT should have brought a SORASed Matthew John Dixon back to the show.

As Iva and John’s son, he had ties to most of the characters.

I love listening to the cast recording of Best Little Whorehouse In Texas and hearing Lisa Brown on “Hard Candy Christmas”

Denise Alexander has died.

In addition to her roles on DAYS and GH, she was Mary McKinnon on AW.

Well that fucking sucks.

Denise Alexander was a great actress. Her character on AW, Mary McKinnon, was ill-conceived.

They ruined that whole storyline. "Mary/Marissa should have been more torn between Reginald and returning to the McKinnon family." Reginald and Marissa's son was supposed to be Marly and Victoria's brother, stolen by Reginald. Another World was going through some things between 82 and 88.

He was related to so many people they would’ve had to make him a monk or something. He was not viable to date most of the canvas who were his relatives.

When they brought Chris Robinson on as Jason Frame , it became ludicrous. Supposedly he had been in Bay City years prior and had worked for the Love family. In that timeline, he would have been in Bay City when Steve Frame was alive and in a love triangle with Alice and Rachel. Considering how greedy Jason was, why wouldn’t he have sought out his wealthy brother? They should have made him a recast Willis Frame.

I watched AW for a year before switching to ATWT. It was the year Cass was kidnapped by Cecile and Mitch came back and Reginald Love looked poised to be the Big Bad on the show but he only lasted two years. Oh, and the Sin Stalker.

I still think Seth Synder has serious sizemeat and I would gladly live on that wretched farm to ride it.

Is r352 Hank Eliot, Earl Mitchell, Barbara Ryan or Lucinda Walsh? The four of them seem like size queens.

R353 LOL. I'm mostly Hank with a little Lucinda thrown in!

Was it Iva or Denice Darcy who did pron?

Iva definitely did porn for Tad Channing. I believe Denise did , too-didn’t she kill Tad to keep Hal from finding out?

[quote]They ruined that whole storyline. "Mary/Marissa should have been more torn between Reginald and returning to the McKinnon family." Reginald and Marissa's son was supposed to be Marly and Victoria's brother, stolen by Reginald. Another World was going through some things between 82 and 88.

There was so much story potential with the introduction of Reginald Love. As you said, Mary/Marissa being torn between Reginald and the McKinnon family, Dona Love being revealed as having triplets with Scott LeSalle being revealed Marley and Victoria's brother.

I was really excited for all the possibilities for this storyline and couldn't wait to see how it would all play out. And then less than six months after the start of the story, all that was dropped. I just didn't understand it.

Normally when storylines get dropped abruptly, it's because of a change in headwriters. However, this was not the case at AW in 1986-87. Margaret DePriest took over as HW in March 1986 and stayed in that position until January 1988 when she was replaced by Sheri Anderson.

Sometimes, a new EP was kill a storyline that a previous EP has approved, but that's not the case her either. John Whitesell was the EP the entire time that Margaret DePriest was HW.

So, not sure why the Love storyline was altered to drastically after such a promising opening.

And yes, before anyone asks, the John Whitesell who became AW EP in 1986 was a director at GL from 1983-85 and at Texas 1981-82.

And yes, he is the same John Whitesell who Judi Evans was dating at GL. He is the one who reportedly was verbally abusive to her.

And John Whitesell’s brother Patrick is Lauren Sanchez’s ex husband, she left him for Jeff Bezos.

I wonder if it was because Anna Stuart left, Aunt Liz? I can’t imagine BNSD playing that effectively.

I've heard the reason they scrapped the idea of Scott LeSalle being Donna's son is because there was only five years age difference between Philece Sampler and Hank Cheyne.

Sampler was born in 1953, and this was 34 when she started as BNSD in February 1987. Meanwhile Cheyne was born in 1958 and was 29 by the time BNSD was cast.

And in case anyone is interested, Anna Stuart was born in 1948. So, there was a 10 year age difference between her and Hank Cheyne.

I remember after Hank Eliot was written out, Doug Marland says he stayed in touch with Brian Starcher on the hopes that he’d come back. Starcher has all of one other credit after As the World Turns (about 6 years after he left) so it’s not like his dance card was full.

Brian Starcher walked so Tuc Watkins could run/fly.

What does BNSD mean?

Brand New Sexy Donna R364 Philece Sampler after she took over the role from Anna Stuart. Anna is ORD

And no, I've never watched Another World

Oh, and ORD is Original Recipe Donna.

That Semple woman would have made an okay Nicole but was egregiously bad as Donna.

R364 Those names were just a funny little thing a few of us posters here came up with, talking about the original Donna and her replacement.

Hank Cheyne is so beautiful.

R367 yes, Philece was just terribly miscast in that role, may she rest in peace.

Anna Stuart really had that brittle bearing to be a rich girl. Sampler’s Donna Love was just too nice.

Anna Stuart actually likes Jill Farren Phelps. She had nice things to say about JFP last year at the 60th anniversary get together.

. Wasn’t Donna on the chopping block with Frankie Frame, and she was kept around because she tested better in one of JFP’s precious focus groups?

I kind of remember when Donna first showed up. I immediately thought that she was supposed to be some new version of Iris, but Anna Stuart went in another direction,, and it worked.

What was funny about the whole Mary McKinnon being alive storyline is that her son, Ben McKinnon, never bothered to come back to town to see his not dead mother.

61 years ago on Another World:

MAY 12, 1964 (EP. #7)

Pat and Tom greeted Missy near the bridge as they went to sit down on a bench that was in front of shrubbery. Tom told Pat that he has dinner once a month with his father, Ken. Pat refused to join Tom in speculating whether Bill and Missy were "making out," but was intrigued as Tom mentioned that Missy keeps male admirers who frequent the Kopper Kettle at a distance. Tom told Pat that he would like to host a small party consisting of them and two other couples at his parents' lake house during Memorial Day weekend so that they could swim, go boating, and play tennis. Pat worried about her parents' reaction to Tom's plans since it would be an unchaperoned party at a lake house out of town. Bill accused Missy of leading him on when Missy adamantly refused to have dinner with him, but Missy stated that she was used to eating alone at the Kopper Kettle because she gets free meals for working there as a waitress. Bill was somewhat mollified when Missy agreed to accompany him to the law library. Janet invited Ken to have cocktails, dinner, and an evening at her apartment alone. Ken tried unsuccessfully to placate Janet by revealing that it was the evening of his monthly dinner with his son, Tom. Janet sarcastically remarked that Ken had mentioned his son despite that Ken avoids discussing such matters with her. Tom assured Ken that he had no intention of marrying the girl that he has been seeing for the last several months. Ken agreed that Tom could have guests at the lake house should Ken and his wife decide against using it during Memorial Day weekend.

Another Sonni episode, not long after she arrived in town.

I don't remember some of these little bits of story - I'd forgotten Vanessa was in that close of a relationship with Alan, and also didn't have any memory of that insipid Rose being an addict.

Oh, that familiar music cue at the end 😭 😭 😭

Was this Jay's fisting hand?

The actress who played Rose surprisingly went on to have a pretty successful career. Her character was a dud.

The one who played Ruby on Texas?

As much as I adored Alexandra Neil as Ruby on Texas, I just despised the Rose character on GL.

GL had a slew of dull 20something and 30something characters in the late 80s including Rose, Johnny Bauer, Rusty Shayne, Chelsea Reardon, Meredith Reade. Probably a few others I have thankfully forgotten.

Does anyone know if AW just wasted the character of Joey Perrini or did his storyline just die because Ray Liotta wanted to leave?

Who was the day player secretary at Newman Enterprises in the late 80s? She would wear minidresses and knee high boots. Had a twang. Was the mane of the character Wanda?

[quote] GL had a slew of dull 20something and 30something characters in the late 80s including Rose, Johnny Bauer, Rusty Shayne, Chelsea Reardon, Meredith Reade. Probably a few others I have thankfully forgotten.

Which was part of what I always felt was a fair critique that Pam Long had issues balancing the show. She wrote great story for Reva/Josh and the Spauldings, but a lot of other characters sort of floated around aimlessly.

Nancy was not happy with Jennifer’s rudeness in the least, r379, and Kim was hiding from her. Nancy knew those tramp sisters were going to be nothing but trouble for her Bob.

The Lewis Oil secretary was named Wanda. Lewis Oil and Spaulding Enterprises seemed to have a lot more volatility around them than any other soap opera corporations. Every few months one of them was going bankrupt, replacing their CEO, or fighting off a hostile takeover.

[quote]Lewis Oil and Spaulding Enterprises seemed to have a lot more volatility around them than any other soap opera corporations. Every few months one of them was going bankrupt, replacing their CEO, or fighting off a hostile takeover.

That likely was a CBS idea. Y&R was having such success with its Newman v Jabot storyline that the network thought that business storylines could be continued across all its soaps. Business was always in the background of soaps until Bill Bell wrote a super compelling business story.

After that, business storylines began taking more prominence on soaps. Some shows more than others. Hell, these days, all Y&R seems to do is move from one business storyline to another. to another. None of them are terribly good, but that's what HW Josh Griffith keeps writing. .

LOL, R386. Probably nothing like DiMera and Titan in Salem!

Wanda

Wanda was great!

GL had some truly terrible characters and actors playing them in the late 80s. It is very surprising since Pam was writing and Betty was casting. Was Betty giving all the good ones to ATWT at the time? It seemed to be aside from Michelle Forbes on GL.

R377, that's some great Vanessa and Reva stuff there.

Pam really had a better handle on Vanessa the second time around.

R377 Michelle Forbes is captivating. (MARY!).

Watching her and Zimmer go at it was a treat. The acting was superb. The whole climax of that story with Reva breaking Solita to reveal she was Sonni to reveal she was Solita to reveal, no, she was Sonni, then the suspension bridge scenes (the ones MIchelle Forbes said almost broke her)!

Such a shame GL’s ratings were middling during that time.

Which brings us to Connor Walsh's chicanery.

GL's ratings were usually 6th or 7th place, occasionally tying for 4th or 5th in 1989 during the height of Sonni/Solita. It wasn't ever too far from 4/5 place (1 to 3 tenths). Not bad for having crawled out of the gutter that was 86/87. Ratings were good when Beth returned.

Does anyone have an interview with Forbes about her Guiding Light days? I can’t find any.

Donna Love’s first love interest on the show was Brian Bancroft, who said on more than one occasion that she reminded him of Iris. Her scheming against Sally Frame, her overprotective nature with Peter, and her frenemy relationship with Cecile were all similar to Iris’ stories in the 70s.

So many soaps added a rich Alexis Carrington type to their canvas in 1983/84–Cynthia on AMC; Lucinda on ATWT; Dina on Y&R; Gwyneth on Loving; Donna and Felicia on AW.

Cuntessadumbatelka is getting her cunt handed to her again at SON! The dumb bitch. Such fun! Cuntassdumbasalltella.

R396, you left out Estelle on. SFT, played by the lovely Domini Blythe. She was actually British like Alexis.

Wasn’t Catlin’s introduction a roll in the hay with Donna?

A literal roll in the hay, in the Love Estate’s barn? Or am I remembering wrong?

R396, I pre-dated Alexis, bitches!

I think Joan Collins told Soap Opera Weekly that Alexandra was inspired by Alexis not knowing that Alexis was inspired by Iris Carrington played by OG Alexandra, Beverlee McKinsey

Some funny bits here, and I loved Reva's punchline at the end.

Did anyone watch the Texas folks on the Locher Room? Caryn Richman always struck me as a JAP from Syosset, not a Houstonite.

R395, there are tons of 4 pp. interviews with soap actors in Digest from the 1980s and early 1990s; then, they dumbed them down to 3 pp. profiles that didn't go too in depth.

R403, I watched. I love Caryn Richman — she always comes across as genuine and interested. Kin seemed odd, but it may have just been his connection. I thought Wiggin, McCafferty, and Lisanti were great.

I was stoked to hear about Lisanti’s current AW project.

Thanks for letting us know the Locher Room had done an episode related to the Texas book.

I just got through watching. It was great fun. Great to see the love and affection between the four actors in the interview.

Much of the interview covered things that were already covered in the book. But i did learn a few things:

1. It was NBC that recruited Kin Shriner to Texas from GH shortly after the show debuted. So, it was NBC paying Kin the big bucks (rumored to have been $1 million). NBC basically told the writers to work Kin into the show. Writers didn't put much effort into creating a storyline for him and his Jeb Hampton character just floated around from storyline to storyline for the year Kin was on. Jeb Hampton was never part of the show's original Bible. In fact, show creator Joyce Corrington has no recollection of Kin or Jeb Hampton when being interviewed for the book.

2. Tom Wiggins only took the part of Joe Foster, who kidnapped Elena Dekker because it was supposed to be a 2-3 week gig. But once he got there, he started flirting with Elena during his scenes, so writers started changing things around and kept him on. Joe was becoming very popular when Tom made the mistake of going to EP Gail Kobe to complain about continuity problems for the writing of his character. That led to a heated exchanged between Gail and Tom. A few weeks later Tom was playing his final scenes on Texas.

r406 was by me, AuntLiz. Accodiently posted comment too soon.

As r405 mentioned, the book's author, Tom Lisanti, said he is working on a similar book about Another World.

He said something about the 1978-83 period. So, not sure if the book is limited in scope to those five years -- which would also correspond to the period when AW feel for #1 in the ratings to #8 or #9. Or maybe the book covers all 35 years of AW and he just mentioned that 78-83 period as a counterpoint since Texas's existance fell during that period too.

Whichever the case, looking forward to seeing his AW book.

Now, if we could only get him to do an Edge of Night book and a Guiding Light book and a As The World Turns book . . .

Kin always had "old lady eyes"

Was that John McCaferty’s husband in the background?

I hope if Tom Lisanti writes an AW book that he hires an editor and proofreader. The Texas book was RIDDLED with errors.

Yikes. that's too bad R410.

Online journalism is rife with errors too; the attitude is oh, we can change it later; sometimes it's not.

Even Schemering had tiny errors; he called the Emmys the Emmies and his GL book had Little Billy Lewis born in 1985, not 1984.

Does anybody remember when Reginald Love first came on, he had that henchman Gomez? She was played rather well by Wanda DeJesus but one day, she was gone and replaced by another actress who was like ten years younger and not even the same ethnicity.

I barely recall Wanda DeJesus around that time.

What I couldn't get over was John Considine was Vic Hastings on AW and he was back playing Reginald.

AW GUTTED its 1970s history by the mid 1980s save Rachel, Mac and Ada.

Drove me nuts. We got a tiny bit of Matthews love in 1989 for the anniversary. I would have begged Penberthy to stay.

Between the spring of 1985 and the fall of 1986, Another World lost Sandy, Blaine, Liz, Alice, Sally, Brian, Clarice and Larry. Popular 80s characters like Carl, Kathleen and Cass also left the show. And popular characters like Donna, Jamie and Vicky all suffered from unsuccessful /questionable recasts.

Meanwhile, the remaining popular characters , like Rachel and Mac, were set to the side while the show experimented with stunt casting, bringing Sharon Gabet and Denise Alexander onto the canvas with ill defined characters.

In 1984/85, the show had been slowly crawling up to 8th place, beating Capitol. That came to an end during this tumult, and the show remained in the ratings basement for a decade.

It was like the exact opposite of what Doug Marland was doing at ATWT.

R413/kindred spirit, I thought I was the only one deeply annoyed by John Considine’s casting as Reginald Love. OK, it was years later and far be it for me to begrudge an actor work but Considine played Vic Hastings during AW’s Golden Age. I associated him with that in a significant way. It was sort of worse than Josh Taylor going from Chris Kositchek (a fairly prominent character) to Roman Brady (an extremely prominent character) on DOOL. That just smacked of lazy, crony-ism casting to me.

To me, Another World can be summed up in the following way:

1: Pre-Agnes Nixon

2: Agnes Nixon

3: Post Agnes Nixon

4: The Lemay Years

5: Rachel versus Janice

6: Felicia, Cass, Wallingford, and Cecile

7: The What the Fuck Years

8: Lemay Returns

9: Donna Swajeski and the remaining bits of Lemay's bible.

10: Doug Watson dies.

11: The What the Fuck Years Part Deux

12: JFP Jeannie Blinks the show into ER, NYPD Blue, and Melrose Place

13: The What the Fuck Years Part 33-1/3

14: Let's do Michael Malone's failed Bourbon Street pilot/Justine/Dark Shadows

15: The end.

They further got rid of the cast deadweights with the Sin Stalker storyline where they killed off or sent off characters they no longer wanted to write for -Maisie Watkins, Quinn Harding, Nancy.

Also, Considine had just exited Santa Barbara (where he briefly played CC’s brother and looked like Jed Allan’s brother) when he began as Reginald. I always saw him as CC’s brother, and while he was supposed to be a menacing, James Stenbeck/Stefano DiMera type, he didn’t feel intimidating.

And why would they need another character like that-Carl had just exited the show, and he seemed a lot more menacing.

R415, thank you.

I wish Doug had lived (duh!) and had gone back to AW circa 1992 when Oakdale had a zillion private jets, conglomerates, and too many runaway heiresses.

Unlike Bell, he needed to take a break from his show. Imagine if he had gone back to AW and brought back Liz, Pat, Alice, et. al.

The show might have lasted into the 2000s

Doug was always better at taking an existing canvas and knowing just what it needed.....but agree by the end of his time at ATWT he needed a fresh canvas.

I think the original plan for Reginald Love was to make him into a Stefano DiMera like character. Show's HW at that time was Margaret DePriest who had been at Days when Pat Falken Smith came back to show in 1981 and added the Brady clan and the DiMera clan.

As we discussed earlier, the original plan for the Love family seemed exciting and full of story potential with the introduction of amnesiac Mary McKinnon as Marissa LaSalle and Scott LaSalle as Donna's potential third baby.

But six months after introducing Reginald, the show changed direction and abandoned all the above mentioned potential. They made Reginald into a cartoon character, transformed Donna into a sex kitten with the introduction of BNSD, and left Scott LaSalle hanging with all his story potential dropped.

1993 would’ve been the perfect time for Doug to return to GL and keep it from slipping. AW had been low in the ratings for so long its cancelation was not a surprise.

I don’t think Doug and JFP would have gotten along. In fact, I think Jill’s face would have replaced Gloria Monty’s in the toilet in his bathroom.

JFP wasn’t long for GL at that point anyway. She likely would’ve respected him since he was a legend at that point.

Respect? From her? To his face maybe.

I'll put a photo of Jill above my toilet!

Jill didn’t move over to Another World until 1995. I think Doug would have excelled at Another World; I think he would have enjoyed writing for Donna, Rachel, Vicky, Felicia, Iris, Sharlene and Cass.

If the Dobsons didn’t loathe JFP ,and their settled Santa Barbara lawsuit didn’t give them fuck you money , they would have been great at GL with Patrick Mulcahey writing their dialogue. I would love to see them writing for Holly, Roger, Ed and Ross, 15 years latet.

Curlee should’ve stayed, but she was a writer during GL’s worse era- 86/87, and late 93/94. Maybe she was only good with other good writers,

Curlee was over rated. James E. Reilly was the genius behind the triumverate at GL.

R429 I do wonder if that’s true.

I don't think JER had much influence at GL. Curlee and Demorest seemed to be the captains of the ship.

Idk when he and Brodderick left the quality decreased..

Curlee never worked again after leaving GL. Demorest did but he never found any success after GL.

Curlee, Demorest, Reilly, Brodderick were Guiding Light heaven. I think together they were unbeatable. Reilly was ridiculous on DAYS.

I have been trying to dig up a bit of information about this soap opera produced by John Conboy and written by Sally Sussman called SECRETS or "Judith Krantz's Secrets" from 1992.

It was an American Canadian co-production, and filmed in Italy, but apparently it did not air in the States.

It stars Peggy Lipton and David Birney, and features Jamie Lyn Bauer, Timothy Gibbs, and Sherylin Wolter.

The only Canadian one I can think of had Kin Shriner for a while. Heavy German component. But some of the German accents were laughably bad like Benny Hill in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

Rituals

Wasn't Joanne Paah-floozie in that?

Kin was in the 1993 German soap filmed in Canada, It was called Family Passions.

Interesting. Family Passions also featured Gordon Thomson and Roscoe Born, and had Jorn Winther (AMC) as a director/producer and Thom Racina as co head writer.

I wonder if Gordon Thomson tried to suck off Roscoe.

No one could even fit me in their mouth.

Just saw a photo of Donna Swajeski, and she looks nothing like what I expected.

Fuck Donna and her Maga husband. i hope she got the face she deserved.

She looks like an American version of Edina Monsoon.

She's like an older, very swollen and toothy version of Lecy Goranson.

Who was the longtime announcer for AW in the 70s and 80s? He had such a distinctive voice but, unlike Dan Regent on ATWT, he never announced himself.

Bill Wolff r447.

I wish there was a site like Another World Home Page for GL and ATWT.

Donna Swajeski was awful. In so many ways. Yikes! She was scary looking. lol

I think what Nancy and Stephen brought to GL with Reilly was the historical accuracy. Probably, more.

It's odd about Jill; she does what everyone else does in this business. She hires her friends. Nixon brought Jacquie Courtney and George Reinholt over to OLTL after AW canned them.

That made headlines back in the day, but did people make the Agnes connection?

The thing about Jill is that I've never ever loved any show she's ever produced. She makes all these big changes, scores some Emmys, but the show is ruined in the process.

A cute little bit on Beyond the Gates today that referenced Jessica Griffin, Duncan and Shannon......

R451, I love that.

My mom watched AW for years. Could somebody please explain the whole Cecile and Alma terrorizing Blaine in the summer of 1982? I only got bits and pieces of it but I remember there were phone calls about a kitten and nightmares about a doll. I assume it was because Cecile wanted Sandy for herself?

I’m sorry but that’s really stupid, R451. So meta it’s vomit inducing. That kind of shit was fine on Santa Barbara from time to time, though.

I'm surprised P&G even acknowledged their past (extensive) history in soaps.