More marvelous Midwestern shenanigans

Continued from previous thread (please finish first before using this new one)

Nothing in Bay City, OP?

OP is that tramp Cecile r2. She was run out of Bay City and is now looking for a benefactor in one of the other Marvelous Midwestern towns.

R3 She'll chase after anything in pants!

[QUOTE]Nothing in Bay City, OP?

Let Liz Matthews (Audra Lindley version) and Ada Davis handle OP.

I feel like Solita today. Or did she end up the good one?

I still love that last scene of Michelle Forbes (on a plane?) contemplating a cigarette.

I will always cherish the line a British stage director had in a scene with Solita:

“Yes, Solita, you WERE the best English speaking actress in Venezuela. Before all the men and the cigarettes, that is.”

I think that Martha Byrne is absolutely gorgeous and the only real Lily

Super sad about her another of the million reasons I hate social media

I wanted to find whoever called themselves "Solita Carrera" on that Jossip Carolyn Hinsey thread. That bitch was my PEOPLE!

Martha Byrne’s Lily was a chubby cheeked Jersey princess with a retainer.

What would SHE know about taking care of Holden, Dusty and Damian? Equally chubby Andy Kavovit’s Paul was more her speed.

I'm the poster who wrote that Lily thought of Craig as a father, the closest she had after Martin killed himself.

Another poster accused me of conflating actors and characters.

To that, I say, "Der."

All the other Lilys were more attractive than Martha Byrne especially Noelle Beck.

It's always Lily! Lily! Lily!

What about me?

Heather Rattray was my favorite Lily. I started watching ATWT regularly on the day Lily and Derek's cabin burned to the ground. Lily went away to the plastic surgery convent and when she came back, she was played by Heather Rattray. Heather was essentially my imprint Lily.

We should do a which version did you prefer, where you pick your favorite recast, for instance:

Which Mindy was your favorite?

Which Vicky/Marley was your favorite?

Which Jamie Frame?

Which Phillip Spaulding?

And to give the Mary Stuart troll some red meat, which Patti Tate?

Etc... etc.. etc...

Mindy-Kimberly Simms.

Vicky/Marley-Anne Heche

Jamie-any of them except Laurence Lau

There’s only one Philip.

And let’s add another couple of these:

Who were favorite Tom Hughes and Margo Hughes?

Hillary and Gregg hands down

Krista and K. Simms practically played two different characters

R17, me?

OP,

I had an above-ground swimming pool. I was the epitome of Bay City society.

Does that count for nothing?

A thread of suggested thread titles?

Vicky/Marley = Anne Heche

Mindy = Kimberly Simms

Philip = The Pendulous One

Jamie = Richard Bekins (even though I wasn't watching then)

Margo and Tom = Ellen Dolan and Scott Holmes

All of you Bay City types will have to wait your turn!

Here are some more:

Which Rachel?

Which Iris?

Which Liz?

Which Donna?

Which Ed Bauer?

Which Alan-Michael?

Which Craig Montgomery?

Which Dusty?

[quote]“Yes, Solita, you WERE the best English speaking actress in Venezuela. Before all the men and the cigarettes, that is.”

The thing that never worked for me about the Solita storyline is that it was written for a 50 or 60 year old woman. And that line above sums that idea up well.

However, Michelle Forbes was 22 years old (born January 1965) when she started on GL in October 1987. She might have passed for late 20s, maybe early 30s, but just barely. But no way was she playing 50 years old, let alone 60.

So, all this talk about a late 20s actress being the greatest English speaking actress in Venezuela who had had too many men and too many cigarettes just didn't ring true. It would be a very appropriate for Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard, however.

FYI: Kim Zimmer was only 32 years old when she started playing this storyline. And even she would have been too young to have convincingly played this story of an aging actress.

Liz, you're right.

I think Sonni was supposed to be mid-30s at least. I had no idea Forbes was so young when she was cast - she definitely seemed to be playing a thirtysomething.

But those lines were definitely wack, regardless of her age. Though I think that was strike dialogue, wasn't it? That whole Sonni/Solita story during the strike was being made up as the sub writers went along.

How quickly you have all forgotten about me. I replaced that vinegary Helen Wagner for a couple episodes in 1988.

That BITCH who replaced me had better refill my hard candy dish!

Don't forget about ME!

Santa Barbara- who was your favorite?

CC

Kelly

Mason

Joe

Sophia

Santana

Gina

^actor to play the role

This is not a Santa Barbara topic.

I loved the Sonni/Solita storyline. It was probably about the end for my watching the show due to college and working P.T.

R39 Betsy was the Earth-2 Lisa.

Michelle Forbes looked like she was going to snap in half some days.

WHERE was her Emmy?

Kim Zimmer sat on Michelle’s Emmy submission tape and broke it with her fat ass.

There's really only one burning question that must be answered on this thread.

Who was YOUR favorite Sampson Girl?

R31 read the room (the title is ambiguous)

This is only for classic p&g soaps (aw, atwt, gl, sft, edge of night, some queen will add more like texas but you get the gist)

There may already be a current Santa Barbara thread. If not, I’d encourage you to start one.

[quote]This is only for classic p&g soaps (aw, atwt, gl, sft, edge of night, some queen will add more like texas but you get the gist)

You didn't mention Somerset or Lovers & Friends/For Richer For Poorer

It's also OK to mention The Doctors, Love of Life, etc. since those are kinda orphan shows.

Apparently our constituents from Bay City want to be mentioned more often!

What was the restaurant on GL that everybody went to in the 80s? AW had TOPS, As the World Turns had the Mona Lisa…

I remember on one episode of ATWT, somebody said. “Ley’s go to the Mona Lisa” and Bob was all, “Good choice!” It’s like where the hell else were you going to go? It’s the only set.

I will say Santa Barbara probably has more commonality with the P&G shows than the Bell,/ABC shows, or DAYS.

It was created by the Dobsons. Pam Long was one of the headwriters and Patrick Mulcahey wrote for years for the show.

Mary Ellis Bunim (ex-ATWT EP) was one of the EPs. John Conboy and Paul Rauch were also EPs, and both helped to get the show cancelled with their heavy handed production (like they both did at Guiding Light).

Jill Farren Phelps’ reign of terror began at Santa Barbara.

Multiple P&G actors ended up on SB (Nic Coster, Judith McConnell, Lenore Kasdorf, Frank Runyeon, Justin Deas), and several ex-SB actors ended up on GL and AW as Friends of Jill (Marcy Walker, Marj Dusay, Deas)….

I know it isn’t part of the P&G stable, but I am always less bothered seeing a Santa Barbata post here than one about All My Children or something.

Imagine being a 22 year old Michelle Forbes and having Kim Zimmer coming after you every day, both on screen and off. And that was from Day One.

At least Cynthia Watros (born 1968) was 26 when she started on GL in November1994 and had six months to get settled before having to contend with Zimmer who came back as a ghost in May 1995.

R42 I think it was Towers - the nicer one. Or Company, for the more working class crew.

Another World had Tallboys then Tops. I think there was something else before Tallboys, but I'm not sure what it was.

When Douglas owned the restaurant on ATWT, was that competing with the Mona Lisa? Or did Lisa turn the restaurant into the Mona Lisa after Douglas died?

I think l'Auberge was in there somewhere. I remember Brian Bancroft mentioning it.

Also Top of the Tower in the early days of Rachel. I assumed that later became Tops.

Didn't Mitch have a nightclub for a while? I think Rachel sculpted a mobile for it.

I miss Wired For Sound.

Tallboys was the longest running of the Bay City restaurants

L'Aubergere was also there.

And Smiley's Diner figured prominently for a while.

I liked to look at all parts of Tony Reardon.

The Mona Lisa was formerly Caroline’s.

Diana McColl’s restaurant Diana’s was dormant for awhile after the Mona Lisa opened. I think Kirk bought it and renamed it Ellie’s when he married Ellie.

I hated the Mona Lisa, it looked like a bunch of Party City crap thrown together.

Tallboys was destroyed when Felicia and Wallingford drove a semi truck through it.

I loved the Pelican Club on AW. That's where Sharly got to do her thing. I forgot about The North Woods Inn.

[quote]Didn't Mitch have a nightclub for a while? I think Rachel sculpted a mobile for it.

It was called The Connection. I don't remember if we actually saw anybody dancing in it.

I think when all the P&G soaps changed their openings, theme songs, and dropped the "the" from Edge & GL, each P&G soap also got a disco as part of the P&G Makeover Package.

Wired For Soubd was part of Trish’s (and Vanessa’s?) restaurant The Copper Kettle or The Copper Lantern, in Springfield.

Wasn’t Oakdale’s Diana’s on a yacht? Maybe docked at the Oakdale Yacht Club.

Oakdale also often mentioned Foxwood Lodge and an inexpensive motel during the 1980s.

Tom and Margo often ordered in from Pampered Palate.

Where the fuck was The Supper Club? Bay City, Springfield or Oakdale?

Guiding Light had the Blue Orchid, too.

I think 22 In Venezuelan years = 50 in American years. 🤣

Michelle didn’t look or carry herself as a 22 yr old. And damn she went toe to toe with Zimmer. She absolutely deserved an Emmy. She was as good on GL as she was when she was nominated for a Primetime Emmy.

Oh yes, the Blue Orchid. Warren's place.

There is no evidence Kim went after Michelle Forbes personally. They did not get along, but that was partly due to Michelle being overworked and not used to it. She’s said the role nearly killed her.

lol, R52. But you could barely tell as the Mona Lisa set was so dark you needed a flashlight.

I thought the Mona Lisa was a silly name. In the GL opening, everyone complains that it isn't the first shot of a disco, before the karate kick, and I think there was a disco ball in it. P&G knew how to bring in those young demos. Sandy Cory got a perm on AW. I'm not sure if any guys on ATWT or GL got perms.

[quote] Sandy Cory got a perm on AW

Chris Rich got a perm because Tony Geary on GH had a perm. AW insisted on it.

All the soaps were doing everything they could think of to replicate the success of GH in 1980-81. Love on the run stories. Sci-fi tinged stories.

FYI, Wayne Northrup also had a bit of a perm when he started as Roman on Days in fall 1981. Not as full a perm as Tony Geary, but still, Wayne's hair was curlier that it would be a few years, and decades, later.

The black guy with the saxophone on gl owned heartbreakers and then the blue moon.

Rod Arrants also got a perm as Travis on SFT, right around the time of Luke and Laura.

I don’t know if it was a perm or natural, but Stephen Yates’ Ben McFarren repped that era on GL.

Oakdale’s geologist/surveyor Brad Hollister/Peter Brouwer seemed to have a perm, or at least curly hair.

Of course, Henderson’s Travis Sentell/Rod Arrants had a perm.

Santa Barbara hadn’t premiered yet during the perm era

Wyndham had a perm!

Brad Hollister was hideous, like a 70s porn star on the skids.

Wasn’t he supposed to be ATWT’s new leading man?

Josh has curly hair......down THERE.

The vinegary Helen Wagner had a perm.

Peter Brouwer cruised me relentlessly at our local D’Agostinos in Murray Hill but his perm was a turn-off. Dennis Parker also cruised me big time at the Foodtown a few blocks north and certain alarm bells rang out for me so I didn’t think it worth the risk taking a tumble with him. The AIDS crisis was very much a concern back then.

Brad Hollister looked like he stepped out of a Joe Gage movie.

Dennis Parker had a 50 load weekend. Several times.

Ironically, the Dobsons were far more successful creatively with GL and ATWT than they were (IMHO) with Santa Barbara.

The show tried to be bigger than life and it got out of control.

But watching their stories play out in Springfield and Oakdale ... that was just the best.

Who got Santa Barbara all the Best Show Emmys? Dobsons or Pam?

The soap podcast mentioned in an earlier thread had a little snippet of the Roger/Holly rape scene (a Dobsons story) in the last episode.

Ms. Jamey Giddens is on the new podcast episode! GET IT GWORL

From what everyone says about Rita, she must've be very popular. I wish they'd have brought her back.

The hall of mirrors episode with her and clown mask Roger was fucking 🔥. So well done in every way. Top notch soap opera. Wow. It won GL the Emmy for best show, correct? If not, nothing came close to beating that.

GL's emmy...

For quite a while after that win they had that emmy slowly spinning on a turntable during the closing credits.

R81 I loved that. GL was so petty, they wanted to rub GH's nose in that win.

I loved it too. For the same reason. Nyeh nyeh nyeh

I didn’t watch GL when I checked the Guiding Light 50th anniversary book by Christopher Schemering out of the library but when Soap Opera Digest covered the 50th, I loved the article and wanted to learn more. It was a great book and I learned a lot about a show I wished I’d been watching all along. So many moments.

And they had a photo of one of the Chippendales who guested on the show. I remember his name was Scott Marlowe and he was hot as fuck.

Was he related to Hugh "Now Liz..." Marlowe?

I was watching a first season episode of “Maude” and Lee Lawson, who played Bea Reardon on GL, was on it only she didn’t look that old. I watched GL after the Reardons were gone except Chelsea. Did they age Lawson up?

That’s a particularly ugly episode of “Maude” too.

WHY were the Chippendales on Guiding Light?

Lee Lawson was only 39 when she started playing Bea!

[quote] WHY were the Chippendales on Guiding Light?

Was it during the Marland era?

R 77, Jill knew how to work the Emmy system.

A producer at Y&R knew too; that's how Kristoff, Shemar, and Christian all got nominated the same year.

It kind of backfired when Shemar won.

R89, no that was Pam.

Good podcast so far though the host is really focusing on AMC and Agnes Nixon overall.

There was a snippet in this week's episode about Tamara Tunie's time on ATWT. Very good bit about representation and how Jessica's family was being presented on screen. Worth a listen.

The first Santa Barbara Best Show Emmy was during the Dobson’s tenure. They were locked out of the show by NBC/New World and JFP took over the show before the Emmys.

It led to the fun, Soapdishesque moment when Bridget bumrushed the stage to accept the award and make a comment about being removed from the show, while JFP fumed behind her.

R93, that bum-rush never gets old!

JHFC Jill was FUMING! She looked like Brent/Marian! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

She DID look like Marian Crane!

I know I’ve told this before, here I go again:

I attended GLFC luncheons and she would show up dressed as a security guard and flank herself in front of the dais.

I thought that was the entire point of Marian's look, that it was a backhanded homage to JFP.

Someone at GL at that point had a serious bone to pick with her.

While the Emmys have honored Anne Heche, Julianne Moore, Jerry verDorn, David Canary, Kim Zimmer, and many other worthy actors, the outfit has also honored...well, I just don't want to name names.

But we know who they are.

And then, there's the list of folks who never won or were even nominated for certain roles -- McKinsey, Maureen Garrett, Grant Aleksander.

Ask most actors who they like on other shows -- or even their own -- they can't hold a decent conversation.

[quote]I attended GLFC luncheons and she would show up dressed as a security guard and flank herself in front of the dais.

Why would JFP show up dressed as a security guard? What's the point? To be incognito while in the crowd?

I don't think I've ever seen JFP wear anything other than black. So, a gray or navy secuirty guard outfit might be an interesting change.

she got incredibly lucky when SB needed a producer they bumped her up from the music department.

she went on to have long runs at GL (killed Maureen), AW (killed Frankie), went to OLTL (fans joked she'd kill Nora).

Went to GH; it became the Sonny Carly Jason Sam show. The Q's decimated. Mob rules.

Then, to Y&R because MAB, TPTB felt, needed replacing.

I've never liked a single show she has helmed (while she helmed it).

JFP always seemed to have a quota-only 2 women over35 were allowed to have a front burner storyline under her leadership. The rest were sidelined, dropped to recurring, or killed off.

Re: perms

It looks to me like Larkin Malloy (EON’s Sky Whitney) was given a perm in the summer of 1983.

Here’s a better shot of Sky’s perm from the same episode.

R99, I think she was trying to be incognito to listen to what fans were saying, etc.

The uniform was dark — probably navy blue or black. She is a short woman with very dark hair (cut pretty short at least then). I assumed she got the uniform from GL’s costume department.

PS - those luncheons were otherwise security-free.

Larkin looked ridiculous with that perm

That perm was quite trendy in the early 80s, especially 1983.

Go to a gay bar, you'd see it everywhere. Larkin just seemed to be following the crowd by getting it, even though, in hindsight, yes it looked ridiculous.

Her tenure under GL was hugely successful, but I’m not sure if it was due to the writers (they, at one time, had a who’s who of HWs writing the show all at the same time such as Long, Curlee, James Reilly, Loraine B to name a few, or her “guiding” things. It’s shocking the ratings took a long time to start catching up to the quality, then we all know the bad luck that hit in mid-92.

Why were the Dobson’s locked out at SB? I know it has probably been discussed a million times, but I’m relatively new to these threads.

They totally made Marian after Jill. I thought that was Frank Beaty up there as Marian it was uncanny!

I’ll add, in a just world, GL wouldn’t have lost those key players in key roles in ‘92 and the ratings would’ve IMO put the show a solid top 3 because it was headed that way. The show was finally getting a lot of buzz and attention it richly deserved.

Mike Poirier has penned an article about a behind the scenes mystery involving an Edge of Night writer. It’s posted on Connie’s/Marlena’s site and contains an intro written by Sharon Rose Gabet.

Mark Faulker (how I miss his EON homepage!) appears in the comments.

I really enjoyed Mike’s recent article about Capitol.

I’ll forgive Mike/Connie/Marlena for misspelling Procter & Gamble.

Alan Feinstein had a perm on The Edge of Night in the mid-70s.

[quote]Why were the Dobson’s locked out at SB? I know it has probably been discussed a million times, but I’m relatively new to these threads.

Essentially, it was a dispute over creative control. Dobsons thought they had full creative control since they had created the show, but they had sold a share of the show to production company New World Pictures.

Dobsons wanted to fire HW Anne Howard Bailey. New World wouldn't allow it as Bailey's contract stated only NBC could fire her.

Add into the mix the fact that NBC wanted to own Santa Barbara, much like ABC owned its soaps. NBC was in talks to somehow buy show from New World.

End result, in Oct. 1987 New World wouldn't let the Dobsons on the lot, which was the NBC lot in Burbank if I recall correctly. Same lot where Days shot. Lawsuit ensued. Two years later the lawsuit settled and the Dobsons were allowed back on the shot and returned as EPs.

Plenty of articles out there going into the details. Easy to google them.

Whom did they lose from GL in 1992 besides McKinsey?

[quote[Whom did they lose from GL in 1992 besides McKinsey?

Sherry Stringfield and Kimberly Sims. All three gone in the space of three months over summer 1992.

Then in January 1993, JFP killed of Maureen.

Reading the Texas book now.

Interesting thus far but JFC, there's a few proofreading errors on, like, EVERY page.

R114 All three were in huge front burner stories playing absolute pivotal roles. All three were most viewers favorites in their roles and all three were at the height of their popularity.

That wasn’t the only bad luck to hit GL in 1992, and then 1993. GL had a truck load of bad luck thenthat was mind boggling when you think about it. Just a few ex: Curlee was being edged out as HW. Many of those other great writers left to HW other soaps with Reilly being one of the most high profile when he resuscitated Days. They lost the best Hart to a hang gliding accident mere months after taking the role. Like Sherry, Nia Long had Hollywood calling and left short of her contract. It is painful to remember how good it was, how it was getting even better, had all the cylinders firing at full speed, then BAM into a wall.

Actually, GL lost those three leading ladies in the space of seven weeks.

Kimberly Simms' last air date was June 26, 1992.

Sherry Stringfield's last episode was August 3, 1992.

Beverlee McKinsey's last episode was approximately August 19, 1992.

I had the same thoughts, R113.

Sherry stayed longer than her contract, I believe, to help the transition. No matter. She wasn’t replaceable with Liz. Simms wanted a shorter contract. They said no. She likely would’ve ended up staying long term had they given it to her. Bev was, sadly, done. IDK if another HW or EP could’ve persuaded her to stay.

What does it say about an EP who loses three of her top leading ladies in the space of 7 weeks?

Only one departure was inevitable -- Sherry Stringfield was determined to get to Hollywood ASAP.

The other two could have been prevented if the show had allowed more flexibility in the contract and in the working conditions.

Oh please. Bev McCunty bitched about everything in every soap job she ever had. A constant complainer.

R115 You can also add to the bad luck Grant needing to leave n 1991 due to his parents dying so close together leaving GL without one of its popular supercouples.

[quote] You can also add to the bad luck Grant needing to leave n 1991 due to his parents dying so close together leaving GL without one of its popular supercouples.

That was sad, but at the same time......

Pam Long, for all her great pluses, was never good at equally balancing the show, and I know Grant also left because he felt very fried after five years of nonstop front burner story.

So with Beth/Phillip, Rick, Reva (and soon after Josh) all gone, there was suddenly room for a lot of other characters, which is why we saw a lot of great story emerge for all of the cast.

Bringing Beth back, with Lujack or Nick, would've been blockbuster.

I think Pam balanced the show just fine. I think TPTB dictated more Beth and Revs as they were popular, and both in supercouples.

I bet if Rick Hearst asked for a shorter contract term during negotiations, JFP would have accommodated him. And if Michael Zaslow had said he was burned out and needed time off, JFP would have accommodated him.

There was always a thread of misogyny throughout Jill’s tenures on various shows-she always seemed to have a lot more problems with her actresses than her actors.

Did her male "friends" fuck her? If they did was she wearing a paper bag over her face?

Jill for sure hated other women.

I think most female producers had to play in what was a man's world and could be very abrasive as a result. Nice likely didn't win any battles.

Based on that Texas book, Gail Kobe was quite a handful.

[quote]Did her male "friends" fuck her? If they did was she wearing a paper bag over her face?

Kale Brown did. And he did it so well, he became her boyfriend. That's why Kale moved to OLTL to create the role of Sam Rappaport, causing AW to kill off Michael Hudson.

When JFP moved to GH, Kale followed her. ABC wouldn't let her cast him on GH, but he could be heard in scenes set in the hospital making announcements on the loadspeaker.

[quote] making announcements on the loadspeaker.

Freudian slip!

[quote]I think Pam balanced the show just fine. I think TPTB dictated more Beth and Revs as they were popular, and both in supercouples.

I recall an article in one of the soap rags in the late 80s asking why Reva and Phillip were constantly front burner while so many other characters remained in the background, including Ross.

Pam Long took full responsibility and said she just always saw so many stories she wanted to write for Reva and Phillip. She didn't make any apologies about it or say she would try to write more for the supporting characters.

Ross Marler was was so seldom used during most of the 80s, especially under Pam, I kept wondering why they kept him on contract. Only real storyline he got under Pam was dating Lillian's sister Calla and then being made Dinah's father and he was essentially a supporting character in both those storylines.

It wasn't until JFP took over that Ross back a front burner character.

Guiding Light did allow Nia Long to film Boyz In The Hood. Quite shocking as she was in the beginning of a big story.

There was no keeping either her or Sherry, sadly.

GL was snake bit starting in 1991. Who put a curse on them? 😂

All writers and producers have their favorites, and actors who follow them from show to show - if they're available. I always found that to be an unfair critique of JFP. As to whether or not she hates women, who knows? I think women in general have a difficult time in entertainment, whether in front of or behind the camera.

R130 Beth, and to a lesser extent but still quite a bit, Mindy were on 4 days a week in front burner stories. Maybe Reva, Phillip, Beth had so many others in their orbits Pam knew she could weave them into their stories? So many of Pam’s characters survived to the end I’m surprised she didn’t come back to write for the show, but she didn’t.

Doug Marland and Agnes Nixon were both pretty good at keeping the entire cast engaged. Even if a character didn’t have a storyline of their own, they were used often enough that you didn’t think of them as being sidelined.

There were episodes in Oakdale, in which 32 characters had a speaking part, mainly exposition through gossip at either the Mona Lisa or the Snyder Farm Kitchen and Eavesdropping Porch.

I loved that, R135.

I started watching the show when Lily found out Iva was her biological mother. Eileen Fulton was coming back from a vacation so they used some time at the Mona Lisa for characters to catch Lisa up on recent events. It was very helpful. This was also the episode when Tonio and Meg got married.

It was also helpful as that was the summer of Ollie North’s hearing which pre-empted shows for what seemed like a month. Remember? Every show on every network was off. Then the following summer was the writer’s strike which derailed a lot of storylines.

[quote] GL was snake bit starting in 1991

Summer 1992. It had a good 18 months, a year of that was perfection.

Then the three departures listed above, then Maureen was killed off, and a year later the show was a sloppy mess and something called Tangie Hill was supposed to be captivating us all.

[quote]and something called Tangie Hill was supposed to be captivating us all.

and something called BUZZ COOPER and Tangie Hill was supposed to be captivating us all.

Fixed it for you.

[quote] Only real storyline he got under Pam was dating Lillian's sister Calla and then being made Dinah's father and he was essentially a supporting character in both those storylines.

Calla was such a dreadful bore. Being hung up on Ross seemed to be her modus operandi.

I was surprised to learn in the Texas book that Lisby Larson's character there was a linchpin of the show and more exciting.

Lisby's Paige Marshall was infinitely more exciting than Calla Matthews. I was constantly amazed at how boring Calla was giving how fascinating Paige was.

But boring Calla also gave birth to the super-boring Jesse Matthews.

Lillian and Beth should have been saying nightly prayers of gratitude they were not as yawn inducing as Calla and Jesse.

R139 oh yes Paige was a pretty significant character. I never really watched GL so I don't recall seeing her in anything else.

Lisby... quite an odd name.I hated the daughter and uncle Simon

Wasn’t one of Calla’s big storylines that she had genital herpes?

^ syphilis.

Jesse should have been a villainous character.

While Calla (and especially Jessie) was boring she served some storyline purpose… her exe (Walter) had given her an STI which caused her to distrust men, and subsequently browbeat Jessie. Mainly, I believe, they served as a major red-herring for the mystery surrounding Vanessa’s and Ross’s child.

Calla was also a social climber with sometimes humorous results including being Alexandra’s personal assistant, trying on Alex’s clothes, etc.

The character of Jessie was originally intended to be India. I’ve always wondered if Mary Kay Adams auditioned and if her glory upended Long’s original idea.

In summer 1984, Mary Kay Adams and Kristi Farrell both auditioned for the role of India Raines. They were both superb in their auditions and screen tests. Betty Rae and TPTB liked them both but obviously had to chose one.

So, TPTB decided to create a new character for Kristi Farrell to play -- Reva's never before mentioned sister Roxie.

Meanwhile, TPTB decided that Mary Kay had a bit more glamour and sophistication than they had originally envisioned for Beth's cousin, India Raines. So, they changed to role to India von Halkein, making her Alexandra's step daughter who was out for revenge against her step mother.

Then a year later, they would bring Beth's cousin to town in the form of Jesse Matthews.

Betty Rea knew what was up!

Farrell would’ve been spicier as India Raines, though change the name. That character needed something added to it.

R140 Lillian and Beth were never yawning inducing. Beth had some edge, a great portrayer, and top stories. Lillian was fine, too.

There's no way Lily would pull the prime cock she did. No way. Not with Martha playing her.

I always wondered why it wasn't Mindy, instead if Beth, who all the men fell in love with. But Judi could look very pretty, had big boobs, and Beth was very intelligent. Mindy was a spoiled bratty princess. Until Simms. Beth Chamberlin's Beth was definitely a person all the men would want. Similar to Emily on ATWT.

ATWT was the show where you could really tell gay men were in charge.

Holden and Dusty looked like they stepped off the set of a Falcon video shoot.

R151, you’re totally right about that.

I know I am/was in the minority, but I was all about Andy and Paul (Kavovit).

I did not know the actress who played Lacey Bauer has died.

I don't remember her and I should

R153, that’s sad — thank you for posting.

Very unpopular opinion: I liked Lacey Bauer.

R154 not really, she was on for about two months tops and then got written out.

R154, she was a very petite blond — was around in 1987 for the 50th — I think she went up in the hot air balloon that Alan-Michael arrived in.

Who was she? A cousin?

Johnny Bauer's sister I think.

Ok thanks

I remember she had really big eyes. I guess Lacey was meant to be a younger version of Mindy only she was a Bauer. And I think it was mentioned on screen that she was an Olympic gymnast hopeful.

By August 23, 1983 Edge of Night’s Cliff fell prey to the perm trend while Gavin sported a fresh cut that looked great and Sky’s perm was already being tamed — Monticello may have had bipolar stylists.

GL was getting a good teen scene there in ‘87, but then wrote out Dinah, Lacey, and Cam. All that was left was Harley and Alan-Michael. I wonder why? Did we really need more Rusty and Rose? Boring asf. Frank? Couldn’t act for shit.

GL was trying to recreate the Four Musketeers with Dinah, Cam, Lacey and Alan-Michael.,

They were no Philip, Beth, Rich and Mindy.

Am I correct in remembering that Harley Davidson Cooper’s name was heard for a long time before we met the character? Then she went into labor and we didn’t see her again for a while?

I actually did not like it when Stringfield replaced Elizabeth Dennehy as Blake. Not like Dennehy was a power actress but I didn’t like Blake overnight becoming such a bitch and sleeping with Alan-Michael.

R163 They didn't write out Cam, he was still on for several months, maybe almost a year after Harley arrived. As R164 said they had a bit of a Harley/AM/Dinah/Cam story - but they did write out both Cam and Dinah once it was clear that Harley and AM were the story.

R166 It was jarring at first, especially because if I remember the recast happened not too too long after Blake and Philip's aborted wedding and Roger Thorpe's return.

R166 Sherry was so green at first, but damn did she catch on quick. I didn’t like her at first. Within 6 months she was on fire and got better and better. She could do such complex emotions so easily. Such a shame she threw her very successful career away.

"Nothing says lovin' like a Spaulding in the oven!"

R169, my friend and I still quote that line to one another!

I remember Stringfield’s arrival (her was much longer in her first episodes) and the physical change from ED was jarring, but boy, she quickly became Blake/Christina.

Her HAIR was much longer…

I’m glad they made Blake bad. Sherry did bad, but complex, expertly. But when they made Blake more complicated, Sherry nailed it. Such a great actress. Another one who deserved an Emmy. On ER, her character was supposed to be the calm, cool one, so even though she was nominated for 3 Primetime Emmys, winning was a bit difficult for her given her character’s traits. She deserved to win for S2, though. I think many thought she was robbed.

I remember the huge buildup for Gavin Kruger on ATWT. His name was mentioned for months by Lucinda. It seemed he was going to be some sort of high finance European tycoon in the James Stenbeck mold. But they cast a boring Dutch actor who was gone within a matter of months and replaced him with a boring cookie cutter American who was many years younger. And I think he lasted a year or so at most.

Elizabeth Dennehy and her blonde perm gave off way too much of a Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction vibe.

"I'll bake a cake."

LMAO

Eleni: What kind of a woman would sleep with a man and both his sons?

Blake: Me!

(and Reva, of course)

Sherry and Melina, two future primetime stars, going at it. You can see why both were bound for it. I hated Eleni’s accent, though. It worn thin after awhile. Melina is gorgeous. So is Sherry.

R175 Maureen Garrett is so fucking good. She has “it”. She has chemistry with everyone. Her and Sherry were especially great together.

I remember when they brought Roger back after a decade. Alex and Fletcher were on that island and Roger was wearing a mask and being all mysterious. And then one day the episode opens with Roger fishing on the beach with no mask and it was like, “Oh, I guess it’s Roger.”

But when he was revealed in the church, Holly’s reaction was fantastic.

R175, R176 those clips are gold. Thanks so much for posting!

R178 — you nailed it; especially your insights regarding Maureen Garrett.

R179 That last scream of hers should be as iconic as the Fountain scene is for Reva. It was so guttural. R180 Maureen G was a very pretty woman. Very elegant. I love the way she moves. She flows. She’s such a good actress her comments to each actor in that scene is different based on her relationship with them. That may seem small, but it is certainly not. Her inflections change depending on who she’s talking to. She always looks classy. She seems like a movie star. Seriously. She has that quality.

And Garrett says she would show up at the studiio in her country lesbian clothes and they’d have to femme her up.

They should have Maureen G play Carrie Coon’s mother in something. They’d be a great mother-daughter match.

R182 I don’t see it. I don’t see how she could ever be butch. Then she’s an even better actress than I thought! If I were a lesbian, hot damn she’d be one helluva catch!

The show and/or Melina wisely dialed down the accent after a while.

A great scene between Garrett and Liz Keifer - I think this was in the first year Keifer was on.

I liked some of LK's time as Blake but they definitely made her way too sympathetic too soon, mostly to push the Ross/Blake coupling.

Here's an un-glam Maureen, but she still looked pretty great 5 years ago.

I'm old enough to remember complaints about her being too plain after the original blonde bimbo Holly. All soon forgotten with her natural charisma and superior acting ability .

I’m a lezzy and I’d totally eat out Mo Garrett!

I want Rick Hearst inside me quite deeply.

Damn, Jerry looks good and is fucking fabulous here.

Jon Hensley is almost 60 and still looks damn good.

[quote] Jon Hensley is almost 60 and still looks damn good.

MAGA Martha Byrne could play his mother at this point and it would look believable.

That looks like the headshot Hensley was using when he was hired for a recurring role on B&B ca. 2012.

Alan Michael landed in a parachute from a plane. He didn't ride in the hot air balloon.

Pam knew how to introduce characters

The dumbass stupid cunt CuntMessaDumbassatella git reprimanded at SON. The dumb bitch is demented.

Jennifer Ashe on DL fave Kathleen Widdoes

[quote]Alan Michael landed in a parachute from a plane. He didn't ride in the hot air balloon. Pam knew how to introduce characters

Yes, Alan-Michael did arrive in Springfield on July 4, 1987 by parachuting into the Bauer Barbeque, but that was not Pam Long's doing. The HW at that point was Joseph D. Manetta and Sheri Anderson.

Pam dido't return as HW until September 1987. One of her very first episodes introduced Harley Davidson Cooper going to the hospital in labor, about to give birth to the child she would give up for adoption (Susan/Daisy).

Incidentally, A-M wasn't the first character ever introduced by parachuting into a family event. That distinction goes to Eden Capwell on Santa Barbara. When Marcy Walker debuted as Eden on SB in September 1984, the Dobsons had Eden parachute into her father's birthday party. However, she overshot the Capwell estate and landed in the next door Lockridge estate instead.

R198 I still wish some of those episodes from Sept. 1987 were on YT. The first weeks Long's work were shown were SO good.

I can't help but think that Pam's work started airing a little bit earlier than when we saw her name on the credits.

Let's face it, 1986 was a tough year for GL fans.

Sure, we had the awesome returns of Peter Simon, Chris Bernau, Robert Newman, and Grant Aleksander but the writing was ... not good.

I think it was June, 1987?

We saw Josh and Reva in Vanessa's backyard. The fountain was there, but it was dry. There were a bunch of leaves. I remember watching those scenes, thinking this is Pam. I wonder if she's back.

Pam hit the ground running. The introduction of Sonni drove a wedge between Josh and Reva. Alan was hiding that Josh was Marah's true father. Gosh, there was a scene between Alex and Alan. Don't ask me how I remember this dialogue...Alan blasting Alex, saying that if the truth came out about Marah he'd go to jail. "I broke the law! And Marah's really daddy is back at Lewis Oil! We know what sweet revenge those savages are capable of!:

Alex: "WE'LL FIND A WAY TO KEEP THE DAMAGE DOWN. We're not going to lose our company to the likes of Reva Shayne!"

FIRE. We were spoiled!

Was that when the opening theme was really crappy?

Some really nice photos on the Locher Room social media pages of a few actors from circa 1986.

R200 She might have had some input in a few bits of story before she officially was credited for matrial (Sept 1987).

I know the 50th anniversary stuff was playing out in June and July and that stuff was pretty lame and tepid, sadly.

*material

Cleveland Amory's TV Guide Review of The Edge of Night.

Cleveland Amory was an old cunt.

R195, that’s right. Then Lacey climbed into a hot air balloon (the Bauer BBQ was at Johnny’s flight center that year) and it wound up becoming untethered… did she float up into the Springfield sky with AM or with Cam?

Lacy flew away with Cameron.

The one I can't believe who never came back on was a teen Stacy Chamberlin (AKA Kelly Louise Reardon), Nola's daughter.

Seeing how badly they screwed up Anthony aka J Chamberlain as a character, perhaps that's a good thing.

Was on a retro TV Facebook site and saw this

1986 was not a great year in Springfield. Soap Opera Digest said GL had gotten pretty disappointing in 1986 in their year end issue. And SOD was baffled that the writers award went to the GL team after mistakenly being given to YR at the Daytime Emmys.

Wow! Look at those 1969 ratings at r210.

Nothing but P&G shows at the top of the list.

Most of 1986 was not great, though bringing back Chris Bernau, Peter Simon and of course His Pendulousness were all good moves in the right direction.

Wasn’t GL’s1986 Writing Emmy for shows Pam wrote in 1985?

R214 I think GL was very good up until summer of 1985. That’s when Pam took her leave, but she is still credited as HW for all the hated Infinity story. Maybe she was having a hard time late in pregnancy? Making Kurt and Mindy this super couple, or trying to, was not wise. I guess she knew Vincent was leaving so there would be no Lujack/Beth.

But why WHY actually kill kill Lujack? She wasn’t headwriting when they “killed” Beth, but the HW left the door wide open for her return. I’ll never understand that.

R215 I’ll never understand why Pam didn’t leave the door open for Lujack’s return is what I meant. Did Pam leave the door open for any character she killed to return besides Reva?

Pam left on maternity leave in late December 1985/early January 1986. When she left, her co-HW Jeff Ryder took over as HW for about six months when he was replaced by Mary Ryan Munisteri and Ellen Barrett.

When Pam returned from maternity leave, P&G asked her to go to Search for Tomorrow to see if she could save the show. She was there as HW for the final six months, but couldn't save it.

Jeff Ryder was a NBC daytime executive who knew Pam from her time as an actress on Texas. In fact, Ryder was one of the ones who had to give his approval for hiring Pam as HW of Texas. After he left NBC, Ryder joined Pam on GL in late 1984. Pam and Ryder were co-HWs on GL throughout 1985.

I attribute much of the mess that was beginning to happen on GL starting in late 1984 -- including killing off Hillary Bauer rather than just sending her out of town -- to network interference and/or Ryder's ideas.

I would say that many of the disappointing 1985 GL storylines -- including the colossal mess that was Infinity, the less than stellar introduction of Kyle Sampson and the subsequent Kyle and Reva parachuting into the Mennonite community in a direct rip off of the movie Witness, the rushed Mindy-Kurt romance and subsequent wedding on location in time for November sweeps, the disappointing music career storyline for Lujack and so much more -- were due to Ryder's ideas or network interference or some combination of the two.

As for killing off Lujack, Pam said in an interview years after killing off Lujack that she was a young and green writer in late 1985 and believed it when actors said they were done with daytime. Thus she killed Lujack off in a grand November sweeps storyline. She said in that interview that is she could do it over again, she would have left the door open for Lujack to somehow return, just in case Vince Irrizarry changed his mind.

R217 She killed him in December, technically. Remember how Nick had “Dec 4th” issues?

R214, if the clip is to be believed, Pam won the DT Emmy for writing the country club dinner between Kyle and the Lewises in which red wine was spilled, prompting Vanessa to remember she caused Reva's miscarriage. (She saw blood in the snow...ewww.)

Reva went on off: "HB! How can you say that! Our baby was a MIRACLE! Vanessa, your baby is alive and laughin' and breathin' ... and MY baby is dead because YOU KILLED IT!"

Across town, the verdict in Lujack's trial for killing Andy Ferris was handed down. Beth got hysterical. India quipped over Beth's histrionics: "I've seen more compelling drama on reruns of Perry Mason!""

Last story was Rick in Alaska yelling at some day player Betty Rea find hooker who knew about Roxie.

I thought ATWT had a strong chance. Margo v. Babs.

Let’s talk about Brent/Marian. I think that was the best soap plot in all history.

R219 Didn’t Beth accuse Alexandra of lying on the stand?

R220 One of them for sure.

I'm not sure how much Pam was actually involved in writing in the Fall of 1985. It didn't feel like her writing. Ex: The writing for Beth seemed off. She was one of her favorites, and protected her fiercely.

It's shitty P&G shifted Pam over to SFT, when GL was suffering, and already was dropping hard in the ratings. Yeah, let's take the show that was top 4/5 against heavy competition, and take away its HW when it started to suffer creatively and in the ratings. Make it make sense. SFT was already gone gone gone.

I think part of the issue was that Pam was pregnant, and that was not something most writers or producers ever did in those days. If it were 2025 and not 1985 Pam would have had a case against P&G, but when she took a leave from GL they sort of had the right to decide to hire a new HW. Which they did.....and did......and did.......and did, until Pam came back in 1987.

I thought Pam was there at the end of SEARCH (later in 1986 -- not 1985)

I don't think Alex lied on the stand; she came clean to try to save BRANNNDONNNN!

Cynthia Dozier (Sp?) played Alicia Rhomer (sp?), the reporter who covered the trial.

She yelled at a camerman before a live take and then when she went live she dropped her voice, acting all concerned "Hello..."

Funny.

Wow, the episode R224 posted is also the one with a dedication to Charita Bauer.

Now an HOUR!

Nancy looks extra vinegary there, r226. Probably because that tramp Joyce Colman is too close to her.