Yet more marvelous Midwestern shenanigans

Continued from prior thread

I'll be around......any guys just wanna hang out and do, uh, guy stuff.....I'll be in the trees behind Tops. Looking for one.

Daddy's getting ready for yet ANOTHER trip to Palm Springs!

I thought a little royalty might class up this thread.

R3 Hiya Iris!

How many husbands did Ada go through?

Which Hudson was best in the sack?

Nick, R7.

John Hudson has serious sizemeat. He fucked Sharly silly!

I always wanted to rim Michsel Hudson, though. I bet he’d giggle like a girl.

Michael annoyed me. He was always disapproving of Donna’s antics. You married the bitch, asshole; you knew she wasn’t Pollyanna!

When the show paired him with Stacey Winthrop they were a vortex of dullness.

I started paying attention to AW on Memorial Day, 1986. My mom had it on and Vicky and Marley were having some sort of party. I came in on a scene where Vicky and Nancy got into a brief cat fight because of Jake and Vicky cheating on Marley. I guess it was a wedding shower for Marley

I was weirded out as Vicky had her hair pulled back tight and looked like a literal egghead. And Nancy had a long face so they looked surreal. The full episode is included.

R8 That Mark Mortimer certainly got my juices flowing!

I liked Kevin McClatchy as Nick, but then again I liked him a lot on GL too. That was one that both GL and AW let go....he was very talented.

In R12’s posting Schnetzer’s bare feets git MY juices flowing.

Ellen Wheeler did look a bit like a Conehead, didn't she?

I preferred original Nick (Justin Chambers, CK model and future Dr. Alex Karev)

When they brought in Mark Mortimer, I was like holy fuck. He was a gorgeous, gorgeous man. Kevin McClatchy was an FOJ and resembled Kale Brown in a way, but Mark Mortimer got those gears grinding.

I wonder how far all these Midwestern towns were from one another.

[quote]When they brought in Mark Mortimer, I was like holy fuck. He was a gorgeous, gorgeous man

And a terrible, terrible actor.

[quote]And a terrible, terrible actor.

I never watched soap operas for the acting. There were a few good ones, despite everything being stacked against a good performance, but they were rare. If the "actor" can convince me they're the character, then their job is done. If they're pretty - all the better.

Kevin McClatchy still looks good these days. I think he's a professor now.

He was in a gay short film that was wonderful.

It’s FINALLY summer in Bay City.

Excuse me while I take a dip in Iris’s (above-ground) pool.

There's a cognac called Prince Hubert de Poulignac.

Stop splashing, Elena!

R19, once upon a time it was intimated that Oakdale, Springfield, and Monticello were located near one another. I always thought Bay City had to be relatively close too. Not sure about Henderson. They all seemed pretty far from Houston.

It’s almost summer. Will Andy Dixon be life guarding at the country club again this year?

If the Bauer barbecue is too dull, why not try the Hughes’s Fourth of July party on the patio?

On the Illinois—Michigan border

Kevin McClatchy played a virulent racist on GL.

The Bauer barbecue will not be dull this year. Reva‘s breaking out the red dress and she’s promising to rival the fountain scene.

Would you all like a song?

*clears throat*

[quote] If the Bauer barbecue is too dull, why not try the Hughes’s Fourth of July party on the patio?

Have YOU ever tried to eat a hot dog boiled in vinegar?

Vinegary Nancy spends the entire party critiquing that tramp Kim and her hostessing skills.

I love Kim!

Hi... God. It's uh... me...

R27, tsk tsk… Andy worked at the Oakdale Yacht Club

Did they really have hunky young Douglass in love with grandma Kim? Seriously?

Why not? Kelly Nelson fell for me!

Noler, Mr. McCord told you and Gracie to stay out of that secret room.

India is now the Prime Minister of Andorra? Cool!

All of Iris's swanky New York friends (who fly to Bay City to hang out with her instead of summering in the Hamptons or Newport for some strange reason) will be entertained by Donna and Cecile doing their version of Cole Porter's Friendship. There won't be a dry eye at the overground pool.

Iris is quite concerned about the upcoming hurricane season and fears her balcony hydrangeas in Boca will bear the brunt.

Wasn't the pool originally installed to give Dennis a safe exercise program for his heart condition? For all I know Dr Russ Matthews suggested it. Or maybe it was some other temporary resident of Bay City doctor.

I don't remember how Dennis's heart issues were resolved, unless one counts his sexual relationship with Countess Elena, still played by Pickles. She'd opened an art gallery and had hired the "geeky Dennis with glasses" for a summer job. I love that actress. Maeve Maguire ticked all the right boxes but was more bland and fragile.

Shortly after, the handsome new Dennis arrived. Jim Poyner I think.

I'll look him up. I remember him as short. Recast again, can't remember who - oh yeah the actor who played gay on AMC.

Must be sentimental youth speaking but Poyner was my favorite Dennis.

Me again...

My brief research rabbit hole led me back to The Another World Homepage. Every soap needs a site like that one.

Cool quote from Mike Hammett, the original Dennis. I'm guessing many of you have already seen it. I know I have but so long ago I'd forgotten.

I was delighted to have Dennis Carrington back on screen. I always liked his character.

Chris Bruno was certainly lovely to look at. But he was not Dennis Carrington Wheeler.

And Dennis' friendship with Jamie was largely ignored.

Russell Todd was never really Jamie for me, though he was also nice eye candy.

I’ve told this story before but so be it…it fits this thread.

I was around 12 and auditioning for stuff. I screentested for ATWT as Lisa’s doomed kid Chuckie Shea-Fulton later said on The David Susskind Show he was known on the set as “Upchuckie.” They went with an adorable towhead blond child who was gone within months. I also had an audition for AW. I went to the ad agency which is where the auditions for the P&G soaps were usually held. Benton & Bowles, maybe? I walked into a room and was greeted with a warm handshake by Constance Ford. I had watched the show with my mom so I knew what she looked like. I remember she wore a man’s button down shirt. I remember her saying “Hiya” exactly like Ada would say to other characters on TV. The rest is a blur. I do remember walking out of that room with the very nice feeling that Ford had treated me like a fellow actor, not a kid. I thought maybe I got the job. I was told it was for a quickie replacement. The next day my mom told me she got a call from my agent-the agent for the kid playing Dennis was playing hardball in contract negotiations and so they were using that popular tactic of calling in actors to replace him. Oh well. But that memory of Constance Ford looking me dead in the eye and saying “Hiya” is a pretty nice souvenir.

R46 Wow! That's amazing.

If I remember correctly, Chris Bruno had tested for the role of Sam originally (they went with Danny Markel). They liked him so they brought him on as Dennis. He was too young to be Dennis.

So cool r46!

[quote] Constance Ford. I had watched the show with my mom so I knew what she looked like. I remember she wore a man’s button down shirt.

My friend's Mom, actually a family friend, named Peggy was a highly successful and respected local real estate agent. She looked and dressed like Ada. Had the same no nonsense attitude but was warm as well. AW was immensely popular then and people joked her success was owed to being like Ada.

Lots of hot men on AW (including a few of the Jamies and, dare I say it, even Mac) but I think two of my favorites were Tom Eplin and Richard Burgi. Both captured the hot bad boy thing quite well.

Espy was my masturbation episodes.

R46, I was recently at the Paley Center and was watching the episode of ATWT surrounding Chuckie's paternity and Claire finding out and falling off the wagon. They shouldn't have killed off that character. Lisa could have used another son.

It’s odd that they killed Chuckie off, I don’t think it really fueled any story-he died and that was the extent of it .

r30 Pack up all your cares and woes, Therèse.

R5, I swear I remember her as a kid saying that line.

Lemay wrote in 8 Years that she stole the scene with that one line; he was right.

R46 did you ever get any roles? Won’t ask which in respect to your privacy.

R56, no principal roles on the soaps but a lot of commercials and theater work (one play on Broadway and several regional theater productions). I did a lot of bg work as a Pine Valley HS student on AMC in the early 1980s and a few days on ATWT as an Oakdale High student. I remember Christian LeBlanc comparing himself to Michael E. Knight and me and a fellow bg friend looked away and rolled our eyes.

I do remember one day on GL doing bg in Central Park when Beth was doing a clown routine. It was a really cold day out there and a little bg girl was upset because it was so cold and she had to stand outside for a long time. That sucked. I vaguely remember Grant Aleksander being there, too. His pendulous dong was no doubt covered by underwear, long johns and jeans that day, sorry.

Heavy duty Carhartt pants, no doubt. That pendulousness needed protection and support!!

Thanks R46. Fascinating to learn how many moving pieces there are (or were) to an episode.

Pine Valley HS…

Did you ever make it to Pine Manor?

That koo koo Tim Will who always called Anna Stuart Anna Banana is a nut. He auditioned for roles and never got them.

Remember the name Edward Trach, the executive in charge of production for all the P&G shows? He must have seen some things.

Ariana, The Early Years

She’s posted some cool clips from her time in Oakdale and Bay City.

Was on the AW website (which is very good and very complete) and happened to see this from L. Virginia Browne (not sure if she's still around or not). L. Virginia Browne was headwriter of AW from 11/80 to 11/82.

"I was replaced by Bob Soderberg in 11/82. Even though I had already left to do Guiding Light with Doug Marland in late 81 or early 82 (can't recall) AW continued to use my story lines & bible and so continued my headwriting credit until 11/82.

Christopher Schemering wrote a book called the "Soap Opera Encyclopedia" and, in it, he says that I took over Guiding Light and it then went into a "slump." I was pretty darned surprised as, within four months of becoming head writer, I had raised the ratings by two full points and our position from 8th to 3rd. In fact, the folks at P&G filled my office with flowers to congratulate me. Ken Fitts (a P&G exec) said he hoped we'd be working together for years. The VERY NEXT DAY, Allen Potter, the executive producer, announced he was leaving to be replaced by Gail Kobe and she fired me -- the very next day after receiving all those flowers and wishes for years and years of working together. And then they continued to use my bible for 9 more months and kept my name on the credits as headwriter for that long.

That story, i.e. the flowers and the firing the next day, has become part of soap folklore. I've even had individuals tell it to me but ascribe it to various different writers. I sent Chris a note (along with copies of the network ratings sheets) and he wrote back and apologized, saying he would update and correct the info in his revised edition. Sadly, Chris then suddenly passed away and never did make the revision, so that mis-information stands in what is considered by many to be a very reliable book.

As for AW, I was supposed to write Texas and was shifted, at the very last minute, to AW, which I had never once seen before being handed the assignment. I spent a week-end in a NYC hotel watching old tapes (those old, huge Beta tapes, I think), boxes of them, to catch up. And, as I posed your question to my former assistant head writer Linda Hamner (with whom I still am friends and still write with from time to time), she reminded me of one story. I guess AW must have gotten a great deal on a crate of baby-crap colored brown mugs. And, as a result, they installed them in EVERY kitchen. Ada had them; so did Mac and Rachel. When Jamie married Cecile, they had them. Even Joey and Sandy had them in their decidedly down-scale apt. You could never do a "cup-to-cup" scene cut (made famous by Gloria Monty of GH) because everyone had the very same cups. Years later I tuned in and there they were, those same cursed mugs. I swear, they must have bought a thousand.

I've kept up with some of the folks from AW. Warren Burton (Jason) has carved out a great career doing voices for video games. Richard Bekins (Jamie) is much in demand on Broadway (He was in "Love, Valor, Compassion" the year it won the Tony) and regional theater as well as regular and frequent performances in the "Law and Order" shows. I ran into Chris Rich a few weeks ago at the mall and met his new wife and twin babies, as well as his daughter with Nancy Frangione (the second Cecile). He's doing well on "Reba," as you probably know. James Horan (Denny) lives nearby and produces local theater as well as acts in them. For a bit of trivia, in the film "Gods and Generals," Richard Bekins, James Horan and Warren Burton all had roles.

And, again, great work on your site. I know the Soap Net cable network is running AW (or will be soon) but decided to start in 1987 which I think is doing the show a great disservice as it will miss all the wonderful shows written by Harding LeMay, whom I believe was the show's best writer ever.

Take care, Virginia."

[quote]L. Virginia Browne was headwriter of AW from 11/80 to 11/82.

L Virginia was headwriter until November 1981, Then playwright Corine Jacker took over as HW for a year -- November 1981 to November1982.

Harding Lemay wanted to break up Pat and John Randolph's marriage in 1975.

He originally planned to do that by having Pat keep the secret that their son Michael was gay. However, P&G and/or NBC nixed that idea.

So, Lemay changed the plot and had Pat keep the secret that their daughter Marianne had had an abortion. The keeping of that secret is what led to the end of Pat and John's marriage and John eventually marrying Olive Gordon.

The person who got Marianne pregnant was a college student named Chris Pierson, who was played by a young Stephen Yates. After the six-month gig as Chris Pierson was over, Yates moved to GL to play good guy Ben McFarren for six years. After he left GL, he returned to AW, this time playing Jamie Frame for two years.

R64 I took what I posted at R63 directly from this page at the AW website - it was confusingly written.

Was Jacker the one who wrote the Pie Lady?

r63/r66 Thanks for posting that link.

The header for her entry, written by the AW HomePage site owners, has the correct information:

[quote]Virginia Browne (Headwriter, 1980-1981), September 2005

But the body of the text has incorrect information, which means that Browne who got the dates wrong in her letter .

[quote]With a period where Corrine Jacker filled in as temporary writer during the writer s strike, using Browne s bible], L. Virginia Browne was headwriter from 11/80 to 11/82. I was replaced by Bob Soderberg in 11/82. Even though I had already left to do Guiding Light with Doug Marland in late 81 or early 82 (can't recall) AW continued to use my story lines & bible and so continued my headwriting credit until 11/82.

Show may very well have used some of Browne's story projects and given her some sort of credit onscreen. Corine Jacker was listed onscreen as HW.

[quote]With a period where Corrine Jacker filled in as temporary writer during the writer s strike, using Browne s bible],

Ahh, interesting. There was a 3 month writers strike in 1981. The is the first time I've ever heard that Corine Jacker was the scab who HW the show during the 1981 strike. Apparently, she did a good enough job, they brought her back as HW when the strike was over.

Never knew that before.

So odd that P&G would hire L Virginia Browne for Guiding Light. Another World collapsed in the ratings during her tenure -granted, this was at the peak of Luke and Laura, but Guiding Light held its own against GH during this time, unlike Another World.

And her writing was not exactly critically acclaimed, either. Then again, her scripts were a masterpiece when compared to Corinne Jacker.

[quote]And her writing was not exactly critically acclaimed, either. Then again, her scripts were a masterpiece when compared to Corinne Jacker.

Browne left the show in decent shape with the return of Steve Frame and relaunching the Steve-Alice-Rachel triangle, adding Mac to the mix. She had Cecile marry Jamie and later start an affair with Sandy Cory.

But yes, Brown was infinitely better than Corine Jacker

And yes to r67, Jacker introduced the character of Henrietta Morgan who was baking pecan pies.

GL was seen as a hipper show. GL was also left with a better foundation. Plus, GH was very bad in many aspects. GL benefited from channel switching because it was good.

What was the Pie Lady story?

R68 Thanks for the clarification.

I can totally understand why AW hired Corinne Jacker, hoping that lightning would strike twice by hiring someone outside of the soap world. They paired her with Robert Cenedella, but I guess he wasn't enough to help her navigate writing a soap opera full-time.

I do wonder if PG ever approached Marland about writing AW, since he had written the show with Lemay, especially right after he left GH. Which PG show was in worse shape in the 80-82 timeframe? AW, GL, or ATWT?

AW was in the worst shape.

GL was in great shape, the Dobsons had modernized it, and you can see why P&G wanted to move them to stodgy ATWT-they wanted them to do to Oakdale what they did to Springfield.

80-82 saw GL in the middle of one of its golden eras.

I can’t see Doug Marland and Paul Rauch working well together on AW in the early 80s.

Who killed Carolyn Crawford? I was home from school in the summer of 1992 but had to go back and the last episode I saw was Darryl pursuing blonde a terrified Frannie on a ski gondola.

Didn’t that story run extra long as Marland was hospitalized for a period in 1992 before dying in early 1993?

I don't think Marland's gay sensibilities and Rauch's quasi-soft porn 70s sensibilities would have mixed at all.

According to Soap Central:

"Carolyn was killed by George Jessup. Murder was ordered by Anthony Harper and Gavin Krueger."

The plan had been to make Darryl the killer, but somewhere about 2/3rds of the way through either Marland, P&G or CBS decided to change their mind as they didn't want to ruin a popular character.

Unfortunately, the audience was bored shitless by the end and it kinda ruined interest in his character anyway. Plus there were rumors that Smith was a pain in the ass and didn't get along with several costars, but it wasn't much longer after that when both Smith and Mary Ellen Stuart were off canvas.

Smith?

Rex Smith (Darryl)

Henrietta was played by Michele Shay who I gather was a great theater actress. I remember her work on AW, however, as being embarrassingly theatrical. She spoke reeeeaaaaslllly slowly, dragging out every word. She played her like a space alien who was just getting used to the language.

Henrietta Morgan was the wife of police officer Bob Morgan.

When AW introduced Henrietta, she was trying to start a business selling pecan pies and other pies.

For a while there, AW mentioned pecan pies so often, I found myself buying a pecan pie on several occasions in the grocery story.

In addition to being very slow moving, the Carolyn Crawford story added a bunch of minor characters who were suspects-in addition to the three listed in r81, there was Dana, Darryl and Carolyn’s surrogate, and her husband; Vicki Harper, Anthony Harper’s wife, who looked like Carolyn; Arthur Claiborne, Carolyn’s attorney; etc.

All of these characters were added to a very bloated cast, a year after ATWT had done another mob story (Brock Lombard).

Gavin Kruger had been talked about for months, the show was setting him up to be a new villain, but he was bland and it went nowhere.

Mary Ellen Stuart was also lacking in charisma, and she couldn’t anchor this story as a result.

I think that was also a problem at GL during this time-many stars lacked something and couldn’t anchor a story like Rusty, Rose (who ironically went on to have a very successful career), Samantha, Beth Chamberlin (though she had charisma out of ass when she returned in the late 90s.

Did they ever explain why Darryl changed his name from Harry to the infinitely dorkier Darryl?

Yeah, the 2nd Pam Long regime was very bad at writing for, casting, whatever.....compelling new characters. Sonni was pretty much it.

Beth C had a tremendous amount of expectations aimed toward her the first time around as everyone wanted her to be Judi Evans II. I think later on she was able to make Beth more her own. Of course some of the later Beth stories were truly terrible but I never had an issue with Beth C.

[quote]AW was in the worst shape.

Harry Must Die and the fallout from that story, Rachel sleeping with and getting pregnant by Mitch and the Mitch "murder" was good, but they couldn't sustain it.

I think the biggest mistake was bringing Steve Frame back from the dead and trying to redo that triangle. The Hathaway family didn't seem to catch on. I think this was also during the time when someone gave Rachel that awful haircut that aged her 20 years.

[quote]The Hathaway family

Halloway family

I forgot about Merideth and Blake (first one). Just blah actresses. I think they just got lucky with Michelle Forbes. She seemed ehhh at first. Can you imagine if they’d cast a subpar or average actress against Kim? The story would’ve flopped.

Pam was very smart bringing back Roger/Holly and making Blake their daughter, then recasting. Was Betty Rhea out for a year or two? Starting in 89 the casting for Guiding Light really got superb. We actually lucked into Roger coming back because they had originally asked him to come back as Alan and he said no, but he would come back as Roger. So I guess it wasn’t Pam‘s idea.

Beth Chamberlin was ok at first, but she needed a new haircut and stylist. Her hair needed to be blonder. She was more compelling in the later half of her first run. Her reading Roger for filth at her wedding to Phillip was the Beth we needed. She delivered. I’m not sure why they didn’t have Beth confront Roger more. They had chemistry and Beth WAS smack in between Alex and Mindy. It is a shame her stories largely sucked and they de-Beth’d her upon her return. Beth Chamberlin really shone then. She was much more beautiful, a very good actress, and had charisma.

[quote]Halloway family

Thanks Nancy

Getting rid of the Halloways was a good thing. I didn't mind First Aid Kit though.

I liked Kit and adored Miranda.

Rest of them did little for me.

Wish both Kit and Miranda had stayed longer.

In 1987, Soap Opera Digest did one of their regularly featured show critiques and this time it was AW. They gave a short summary of what had been right and wrong with the show in the present and the past. They mentioned a new family that was written in and discontinued within three weeks, maybe early 80s. The last name was Wylie.

Okay, Miranda as well. She had unrealized potential.

But the rest of them ate the show. I'd spent time in Europe and when I returned it didn't feel like AW anymore. I want to say they were part of the 90 minute expansion but I'm not sure.

According to the Another World homepage, there was a hristine Wylie character on for about 6 months in 1982. She dated Jamie Frame.

Her mother Patricia Wylie was on for about 2 months during that time too.

There's also a seemingly unrelated minor character named Douglas Wylie who was an assistant at an art gallery for about two years, 1977-79.

Wasn't Miranda suppused to be the new Iris?

A Rachel rival for sure.

Yes, with Iris headed off to Texas, Miranda Bishop was set up to become the show's new Iris. They even had Miranda living in Iris' house.

Bev left AW because it was a new show or quit?

Bev originally was planning to leave Another World when her contract was up. P&G threw a lot of money at her (along with the promise of shorter hours) to go to Texas.

and it started as... TEXAS starring BEVERLEE MCKINSEY

I love you Donna…

So, did PG keep the $ flowing for Bev at GL?

Didn’t she join GL for health insurance, her husband was dying?

Beth Chamberlain had a far deeper speaking voice than Judi Evans and it took me a long time to get used to that.

According to the Texas book, Beverlee got a sweet deal because Rauch and the Corringtons wrote her into the show (Texas) without negotiating first. They came to her after the fact, and she had them over a barrel and worked out a great deal for herself with star billing. Good for her. Apparently, she was planning to leave Another World at the end of her current contract.

Beverlee was an intelligent lady and read her contracts. It seems that she was quite professional. I heard that she and Michael Zaslow had some issues dating back to "Love is a Many Splendored Thing," but they managed to work together on "GL" despite whatever those past problems were.

I wish there were tape available of her playing Emma Ordway.

Idk go back and watch some of Judi’s scenes. She could have a low sultry voice.

They should have made Beth C’s hair shorter and more blond.

Chris Robinson is DEAD to me!

Chris Robinson's story is kinda sad. He had 9 kids but I'm not sure ANY of them were talking to him at the time he died.

Didn’t he go broke trying to speculate on Beanie Babies?

R113 Yes.

Julianne talking about Kathryn Hays......❤️ 😭 ❤️

Sounds like AW botched its 20th anniversary. They got Jacqui Courtney back as Alice, they poached Taylor Miller … and they did nothing with them. Courtney said Alice was now relegated to saying, “You look tired, you should go to bed.”

Wasn’t AW negotiating to get Beverlee back in time for the anniversary ,but she went to Guiding Light , so they pivoted to bringing Jacqui Courtney back?

They never should have recast Sally with Taylor Miller. They should have tried to convince Mary Page Keller to at least stay until Thomas Ian Griffith’s contract ended and had Catlin and Sally leave together.

AW also botched up Sharon Gabet’s character, Brittany, by pulling a huge bait and switch. Brittany was supposed to be a deaf mute and then she became a man hungry vamp who spoke and heard everything - how did they even explain that? Gabet was unhappy and left when she was able

AW didn't do anything that I can remember for its 20th, but they marked the 25th on air in 1989.

Beverlee was already back at GL for several years when they did the 25th anniversary, so her participation was never an option. I believe they already had Carmen Duncan in as Iris by then.

Douglass Watson died just before the anniversary, I believe? Or right after? Aunt Liz will know specific dates better than I.

[quote] Didn’t she join GL for health insurance, her husband was dying?

That seems to be as good an explanation as any. In that 1982 Canadian interview she was done with daytime and wanted to do other things. But her longtime partner/husband was dying and she went back to daytime on GL. He died in her first year at GL (her scenes were played by Lydia Bruce for a few weeks.)

AW observed its 20th anniversary in May 1984 by bringing Jacqueline Courtney back as Alice and then giving her nothing to do. Reportedly, the show had been trying to lure Beverlee back, but then she went to GL in February 1984, so they pivoted to Jacqueline who had been fired from OLTL when Paul Rauch joined as a producer in August 1983. (Reportedly, Rauch demanded she be fired before he would start the job).

Taylor Miller didn't come onto AW as Sally until July 1985, about a month after Mary Page Keller departed. By the time she got there, Jacqueline Courtney had already left again.

For the 25th anniversary in 1989, AW did the Bravo 25th anniversary party, bringing back past cast members for a visit. Yes, Douglas Watson died about a week before they were to film the 25th anniversary shows. They were mysterious about his absence from the Bravo party, but then about three weeks later killed Mac off and did his funeral, again bringing back past cast members.

Carmen Duncan joined the show as Iris in October 1988, so she was already there when they did the Bravo 25th anniversary party.

Incidentally, it was Cecile (Susan Keith) who first pitched Cory Publishing doing a magazine called Bravo. That was in summer 1980. I got a chuckle out of them retconning show history to make Bravo to be 25 years old in 1989. But it was a good excuse for the show's 25th anniversary party.

R121 Thank you for the specifics, Liz! I knew your eavesdropping would come in handy!

BRAVA

If Beverlee came back to AW in 1984, I could see them phasing out Donna or making her into more of a heroine. Donna was very much like Iris in those days.

Yikes! Thanks for catching that Nancy. And you're not even a P&G star!

Brava was SORASed. I thought it was Janice who came up with Brava. What kind of magazine was Brava, anyway? Was it like Vanity Fair?

Yes, apparently Janice did pitch the idea of Brava when she got a job at Cory Publishing. That allowed her to interact with Mac regularly and eventually lure him into marriage.

Soon after, Cecile (Susan Keith) took over as editor of Brava. During this time period, Cecile was working with Pat Randolph and routinely taunting Pat about her age and being single since the divorce from John. This taunting contributed to Pat's drinking problem as well as Phillip Lyons (Robert Gentry) defending Pat against Cecile.

Brava was discussed as being a woman's aspirational magazine aimed at upscale women and upscale wannabes.

Iris was a socialite when played by Beverlee McKinsey. When Iris returned to Bay City in the form of Carmen Duncan, she was a corporate executive -- something Bev's Iris would never have done.

Duncan's Iris started a companion magazine to Brava called Sophisticate.

Wasn't Cecile also spiking Pat's drinks with vodka?

[quote]Wasn't Cecile also spiking Pat's drinks with vodka?

I'm sure that was just a misunderstanding. Like, how she "supposedly" got Jamie hooked on drugs.

I really liked Chris Robinson as Jack Hamilton on B&B. Stephanie definitely made the wrong choice there.

McKinsey truly was a cunt! Poor Vivian. And the GL actors who lost income because Bev chose to be a cunt.

Jack Hamilton enjoyed motorboarding with Sally Spectra.

I loved how these shows took place in small towns in the beginning but later were supposed to be these huge cities by the 80s The view of Oakdale from Lucinda’s office in Walsh Towers looked more impressive than Manhattan. Yet just down the road was rural Luther’s Corners.

Same with Springfield, which was all rustic looking with the lighthouse and then suddenly had huge towers and skyscrapers.

AMC was the worst offender. This picturesque, Peyton Place-ish little town in Pennsylvania had a fucking skyline by 2000.

Yes. AMC was my second thought when reading r134's post. My first was of AW in the 1980s when Steve Frame returns and comments about how Bay City has grown.

And early in Marland’s reign on ATWT, Lisa and Frannie are visiting the soon to be opened Caroline’s and Lisa comments on how Oakdale has really changed.

Springfield got big but then shrunk down again.

Why, it reminded me of a little town in New Jersey.......

Why did Oakdale have a yacht club? Where were these yachts cruising?

This is pretty much what I pictured Oakdale being like while Lisa was causing havoc.

As a very young child I remember getting ATWT confused with reruns of Father Knows Best.

If I had noticed that Father Knows Best took place in a town called Springfield I might have confused it with The Guiding Light.

While I understand that the shows were just keeping up with the times, I think they lost something special when the model became Dallas/Dynasty instead of Peyton Place.

I didn't know Beverlee hosted the Daytime Emmys....or maybe I did but I forgot it.

From the people listed as nominees, that would have been the 1980 Daytime Emmy awards.

Wikipedia has a write up of the 1980 awards and mentions Susan Seaforth Hayes and Ed McMahon as hosts. Does not mention Bev.

So many lesbians in Supporting Actress that year!

Did anyone watch GL when Murray Bartlett was on? He played Cyrus Foley from 2006-cancellation. Didn’t he end up getting thrown off a cliff by Phillip? And did anyone think he’d hit the big time ( he won a Primetime Emmy)? I’m watching him on Nine Perfect Strangers now so I thought I’d post about him.

"While I understand that the shows were just keeping up with the times, I think they lost something special when the model became Dallas/Dynasty instead of Peyton Place."

I think Marland's ATWT did the best job of keeping a foot in both camps, slowly integrating the Snyder family while simultaneously turning up the glamour for beloved female vets. How I loved to watch Kim, Lisa, Barbara, and Lucinda swan around in their furs and jewels!

Maybe r148. To me it felt like a device, an escape hatch. Other soap writers do it. One day those two realities are extreme ends of the same community. Then they are not the same community. Then they are even farther apart. Then someone can walk bnetween the two.

Not complaining. Just saying Marland wasn't above using soapland clichés. We would not be faithful viewers if we didn't expect them.

Lemay was the better writer.

R147 It was Cyrus Foley's foster brother, Grady Foley, who got pushed off a cliff to his death by Phillip.

As for Murray Bartlett's acting, I don't think he really got much notice until he did the HBO series "Looking" in 2014, In between GL and that series, I happened to see him in a gay indie film called "August" (2011) and saw quite a bit of potential ;-).

R150 Ahh thank you. I’ve seen him in a few things before Guiding Light like Sex And The City, which has had quite a few GL stars on it. Murray didn’t get the notice his GL colleague Tom Pelphry received, but Murray has more Primetime Emmy noms and an actual Primetime Emmy.

Speaking of SATC, it was fun to see Scott Bryce (in the opening scene of episode 1), James Goodwin, and John Bolger in their appearances.

Poor Goodwin being known as the guy with a small dick.

Murray was front and center in the Last Of Us episode many critics say is one of the best TV episodes of all time. It earned him an Emmy win.

Murray was pleasant on GL but nothing that would really make you think he had it in him to deliver some of his later award winning performances.

He was somewhat effectively paired with Marj Dusay's Alexandra as her younger escort - I believe they were married for a short time, and then Cyrus got involved with Harley before Beth Ehlers left the show.

At the end I think the writers were just plugging Cyrus in anywhere and everywhere.

This was a hot scene, though - the fun starts after 5:00......

They obviously made "Remy" (LSV) wear another pair of briefs under those green boxers, so his BBC wouldn't be flopping around or visible when wet. boo hiss

[quote]They obviously made "Remy" (LSV) wear another pair of briefs under those green boxers, so his BBC wouldn't be flopping around or visible when wet. boo hiss

Maybe if they let his BBC fly free, the show would still be on the air today.

They should have had Remy's big BBC slam Cyrus....it would have been far more entertaining......

Oh, if only I'd thought to protest in Cincinnati: "P&G, Show Us the BBC!"

Those who go way back- what were the reactions to the P&G makeovers of the opening credits for all the shows in 1981?

I got my tambourine and booty shorts and shook what the good lord gave me to our new theme!

Ah, the divine disco version of GL theme songs!

I liked AW’s 1981 credits.

I always found the music and the announcement in ATWT’s 1981 credits to be a little creepy.

The GL disco theme was appropriate for the show at the time, but I much prefer the revised version from 1983.

That Henry Chamberlain sure knew how to pleasure Kelly Nelson!

Most of the updates were crap except for GL which really needed one. But I agree with r162 thathe '83 version was one of its best.

It's cheesy as hell, and didn't happen until 1987, but I've always had a soft spot for "You Take Me Away to Another World."

My favorite soap openings are Guiding Light’s 1991 opening with the lighthouse; Another World with “You Take Me Away to Another World;” and the 1990-95 ALL My Children opening, with the photos of the cast flying onscreen.

I loved all of GL's openings from the Ritournelle one to the lighthouse one that started circa 1990/1991.

Well, I should say I liked the 1983-1985ish version of the GL opening with the dark background and gold lettering. When they went to a faster arrangement of that song.....the blue sky, aerobics bouncy version, I looooathed that version.

[quote]Those who go way back- what were the reactions to the P&G makeovers of the opening credits for all the shows in 1981?

AW should have never moved away from the interlocking rings and their classic theme. One thing I've always respected about Days is they never got away from the hourglass and Mac Carey's intro.

R88, frannie was involved with Larry McDermott around this time and the show had to get away from "Larry" and "Harry" references.

It would sound comedic.

Kim: "Bob, how can Frannie choose between Harry and Larry?"

I get that r168, but why “Darryl?” The character was supposed to be sexy. Darryl is not a sexy name; that’s the name of a fat, bald, unemployed forklift driver.

Another World in the 1970s opening swept me in to well, another world.

All time favorite

I also liked GL disco, Savannah (prime time), GL late 85 early 86 before twangy version.

Y&R and disco Edge of Night

It’s THE Guiding Light.

R172 Don't you start, kiddo.

The disco ATWT theme I loved because the show was so great back then.

The theme change in the early 90s timed with Marland's passing so I never cared for it.

GH's late 70s and 80s theme is a classic b/c the show was so great; especially 1978 - 1983.

The original Texas theme seemed to “borrow a tad too much of “I Can See Clearly Now.” I liked the second i e which was also used as the jingle for an insurance company.

I loved “The World Turns On and On”, the ATWT theme from 1981-93 but I can see people not liking it originally after 25 years of the same theme song. The original theme was good. I can’t say I liked anything after 1993 though. “Jelinda’s Theme” was too weak for me but the themes they used in later years were generic and unmemorable. Although there was that sepia-toned opening that ran for a short while on later years with a tune that recalled “The World Turns On and On” somewhat.

Trent Dawson lived in Morningside Heights in Manhattan during the time I was living there. ( As did Rosa the cook.) I was behind him in line at Chipotle once and so I struck up a conversation. He wasn’t exactly hiding as he was wearing an As the World Turns t-shirt. He was very friendly. He was with a young woman who had also been on the show as a stalker of Holden. This was late 2008. I saw him around several times over the next few years.

[quote] “The World Turns On and On”, the ATWT theme from 1981-93

I think that was the one we called PIGS IN SPACE

R177 I’m shocked Trent married a woman.

at some point almost every PG show was as bad as dialogue and plot in porn. I'm trying to think of the most egregious examples. any takers? anything involving a cave in bad weather is a good start.

R180, what years are you referring to?

Can anybody help me here? Back in the late 70s, my siblings and I would always catch the end of “Guiding Light” and there was a blind girl on it named Eve, I think. But one day we caught a soap on a different channel and it was much racier than GL and it had a couple in bed and the had a scene I’ll never forget where a crazy woman with a knife burst into what looks like a break room - were they nurses? And starts threatening them and they try to stop her and she ended up stabbing one of them. This would have been 1979 and it doesn’t seem very P&G I guess it may have been GJ but could anybody name the story or characters?

We decided that we preferred GL and its softer feel.

Ugly little Evie? Rita's sister? The blindness sounds familiar. I remember she sort of went mute during her last days on the show. We'd see her but she never had anything to say.

Just saw this - I still remember Cynthia Gibb from SFT.

She looks quite good, I must say.

R183 I suspect it was GH but couldn't say what the storyline was. I was watching GL!

Evie was the luckiest soap character ever. Homely little whiner gets handsome Ben.

Well, at least the second luckiest. Plain Beth Raines got the gorgeous, pendulous jock of all time.

Surely I deserve a mention for rewards above what I deserved?

Blind Evie was so homely. And the actress was terrible. Did she even act ever again after GL?

The soaps just loved a plain virgin girl, with beautiful men WAY out of her league fighting over her maidenhead.

It made the dumpy fraus at home think they had a chance too.

Lily Walsh, Beth Raines, Jennifer Horton, Trisha Alden, Cricket Blair, Marley Love-all examples of this trope.

I wouldn’t put Beth in that category. Beth was pretty, had a nice body, big boobs, and was written to be very beautiful. There were times Judi Evans could look really beautiful or dowdy depending on how the styled her. But she was definitely at least a league above a Lily Walsh.

Saint Beth of Raines, beautiful? How positively ludicrous.

Beth did have huge tits

[quote]The soaps just loved a plain virgin girl, with beautiful men WAY out of her league fighting over her maidenhead.

It made the dumpy fraus at home think they had a chance too.

Lily Walsh, Beth Raines, Jennifer Horton, Trisha Alden, Cricket Blair, Marley Love-all examples of this trope.

Let’s not forget the epitome of the frumpy frau landing the hot guy - Tracy on Y&R. That heifer looked 45 when she was in her early 20s.

Yeah, Beth Raines does not belong in that category. And that’s especially true with her from 1997 forward. But even in the 80s, Beth’s looks could pull good D.

R194 Ambassador Bull Moose Von Halkein?

Lesbian Mary Kay Adams India character totally wanted Beth’s tits!

I wonder if Beth's birth control methods allowed The Pendulo... Philip to give her a tit fuck

India always projected “Pheeelleep, let me have St. Beth for myself”.

The only way Lily Walsh was getting the dick she did was if the closest Wal-Mart was 3 hours away.

I take it you mean the Martha version. Yeah. Now that I think of it, she wasn't a whole lot better than Evie Stapleton. Looking at sisters Evie and Rita together was almost cruel to that Grey? actress who played Evie. Lenore Kasdorf was one of the great beauties of daytime. And that drip was her sister.

Jack Betts has died. For P&G he played Louis St-Georges on AW. Probably better known for playing Ivan Kipling on OLTL. He was 96.

Evie stapleton sounds like Kimberly McCullough

Mike Hammett (Dennis Carrington) sounded like Martha Byrne's Lily.

Vanessa used to call her "little Evie"

so bitchy

Janet Grey fell off the face of the earth according to someone who knew her at Gl.

r204 I thought he'd died years ago.

Louis was Cecile’s father and Felicia’s ex-husband. They should have given him a son that could be a love interest for Donna or (later) Iris, when Cecile was terrorizing Bay City and Majorca.

WHET Brytni Sarpi?

R209 She's not on any of the shows we discuss here. Look for the Port Charles or Genoa City threads.

Thanks R210 . That was intended for Genoa City.

Fair enough, here's the GC thread

Jack Betts has died and I am now observing thirty days of mourning.

But back to P&G shit-just watched Alan’s Texas video. Man, it sounds like those Texas/Another World summer houses in the Hamptons were a blast. Who was fucking who? I bet Randy Hamilton would let Kin Shriner rim him.

It’s summertime! Now is when all the younger cast members get the spotlight. Which young actor will get a rote, boring storyline that showcases their limited acting skills?

Ok, I during kid. ATWT and GL had some pretty good summer romance stories in the 80s. AW had some lame ones especially around 1986.

AW’s teen storylines were lame and derivative.

They sent them all to New York just a few months after The Four Musketeers went there on GL. A few years later, Josie and Reuben fled Bay City for New York and it was a blatant rip off of AMC’s Jenny and Jessie storyline.

Ha ha. Location shooting in NYC when all they had to do was open the studio doors.

Kelly Nelson was all for the bolder holder swimsuits!

Kelly's slab needed extra support.

Phillip's slab needed *hydraulic* support.

AW brought in gorgeous Hank Cheyne aka Garcia and did very little with him. Just a paint by numbers romance and that was it.

I hate to pick on AW, but even though it had young characters, you never think of it having a "teen scene" the way GL and ATWT did. Shoot, even SFT seemed to do better in that regard.

[quote]AW brought in gorgeous Hank Cheyne aka Garcia and did very little with him. Just a paint by numbers romance and that was it.

He was supposed to be Donna Love's triplet, stolen away by Reginald so he and Marissa could start a new life.

At least that's certainly what the writers were hinting at, until they changed their mind, likely in response to casting Brand New Sexy Donna, who was just five years older than Hank Cheyne. Thus the two would not have been believable as mother and son.

Just saw this photo today on FB. Joel Crothers certainly was cute in his twink days (this is from Dark Shadows, well before he was on Edge of Night.)

He's got a proto-Bomer thing going on.

Joel drank down ALOT of cum.

Don't forget about me!

Glad Chris Bernau found a better toupee by the time he got to GL in 1977.

Twink? Crothers was already a handsome and furry MAN of 25 when he started on DS. And the AI manipulation of that photo is just kinda weird.

Even at age 18, when he appeared in an episode of the Zane Grey Theatre with Miss Barbara Stanwyck, he looked more jock than twink. So good-looking.

R227 I'm sorry, I didn't know that photo had been manipulated, I would not have shared it had I known.

I found it on a DS Facebook page and trusted its source. Sorry.

Was Daniel Pilon difficult or weird on the set of Guiding Light? I am reading a book a book about the history of “Dallas” ( he played Jenna’s Italian ex-husband Naldo), and both Patrick Duffy and Morgan Brittany said they weren’t sure if he was Italian or American because he stayed in-character at all times.

I became hooked on soaps while watching Matthew and Josie’s summer love story on AW. It was in August of 1988. I liked it from the first episode, well before I had any knowledge of the history between their families.

I liked Matthew and Josie’s romance, but they needed a Liza Colbyish bad girl to come between them.

R230, is the story where they met on a phone chat line?

R229, I’d love to know more about Daniel Pilon’s time on GL too.

It was common knowledge at the time that Daniel Pilon was French-Canadian. Duffy and Brittany sound like idiots if they said they didn’t know if he was Italian or American. LA airheads with no curiosity to just ask around about him,

Since we don't have a Santa Barbara thread, I'll mention the passing of Joe Marinelli here (he was on GL briefly).

His portrayal of Bunny (and once, Bunny as Joan Crawford) on SB was quite something.

Santa Barbara ... not much action

I seem to remember something, either as gossip or possibly even something printed in Digest or Weekly, about Pilon being quite an asshole on the set of GL. He was sort of the Jon Lovitz "I! Am! an ACTOR!" character to all his costars.

Which, as you might imagine, did not go over well.

When Another World was good, it was good. It also could suck. When Sven kidnapped Rachel Corey we all thought she was a goner. Olive Randolph was after Dan Shearer and tried to kill his wife Susan by burning the house down. John Randolph died trying to save her. Shocking! A few years later, their daughter, Julia, got her throat slashed in some NYC hotel. AW would kill off legacy characters quite frequently. I stopped watching in the mid eighties. About 10 years later I caught an episode and Rachel was still on and she had a twin sister. The show was beyond bad at this point.

[quote] When Sven kidnapped Rachel Corey we all thought she was a goner.

There were rumours going around my high school she would be killed and emerge as a new character on For Richer, For Poorer, or whatever it was called by then.

[quote] Olive Randolph was after Dan Shearer and tried to kill his wife Susan by burning the house down. John Randolph died trying to save her.

No. Very gay and British in real life Dan had already moved on from Frigidity Personified Susan and was all set to shack up with Alice Ii - that Harney woman with the big blonde hair.

Olive tried to burn Alice. It's on YouTube. "GOOD BYE ALICE!"

Then john dies trying to save her.

The best Olive scene was when Evan tries to kill John and John ends up shooting Evan. Poor John. Olive goes nuts and screams her infidelities. Effective creepy music. I think the audio is around somewhere.

Alice! Yes, the blonde with big hair who cried all of the time. She was annoying. Then there was the backwoods girl Blane who was after Jamie and the Corey money. She was a good villain for a while but then changed a became a bore.

Correction, R239-Brian Murray, who played Dan Shearer, was actually South African. But he did spend several years with the RSC in England where he was in an acclaimed production of King Lear starring Paul Scofield.

Thanks r241. I believe his husband posted here. You? Much better actor than AW gave him a chance to be.

Daniel Pilon was a terrible actor.

I wasn’t married to him, R242, but was in a relationship with him for several years. Talented and very charming man but…uhhh…very difficult to be around. Self-involved to an extreme-yes, I know, an actor cliche but still.. I was with him at the tail end of his time on AW. When he guested on GL a few years later he told me the Grant Aleksander story which I “introduced” here on DL-when Grant walked on set, he strolled over to Brian and Chris Bernau (and maybe Ben Hendrickson?) and said “Chris, man, I’m beat, just coming off a long night at The Mineshaft, I’ll be napping in my dressing room.”

Grant would’ve made a billion $ as a porn star. Lol

Thanks r244.

And yes I know actors

DANIEL PILON was straight. Was fucking a female actress friend. Greek woman. Beautiful. To be fair she took it too seriously. She had a worse time with Adrian Paul. Attempted suicide.

Pilon's brother Donald is somewhat of a legend in Québec cinema. I think he's still alive. Daniel died of cancer years ago. Don't get me wrong. He wasn't a bad guy.

Within that small community of Quêbecois actors it was well-known that Jean Leclerc hated Daniel Pilon. Both were handsome as fuck in person. I could see why my friend Alaxandra went for Pilon.

Leclerc was gay of course. Big time alkie. Nice when he was sober. I think he's still alive with the same partner, out in the country, near the American border.

There was no way GL would allow Daniel to stay in the pivotal role as Alan. His acting was shit. Next to Zim Zimmer, Michelle Forbes, Robert Newman, Grant Alexander, Michael Zaslow, Maureen Garrett. No way.

Grant and his pendulousness is a DL classic.

There was a 'fight' scene between Phillip and Alan-Michael (Carl) on GL circa 1988; AM thought Phillip had bedded Harley (he hadn't).

Grant, I could tell, was using stage combat to push Carl around without really hurting him.

I know everyone always talks about the Phillip and Rick friendship, but I always liked watching Phillip protect AM from Alan's abuse.

Pilon's sole strength on GL was that he really, somewhat magically did look and sound a lot like Bernau. But it wasn't enough. He was very different as an actor.

Alice Barrett aka Frankie Frame is talking to Locher next week.

Pilon was serviceable as Alan. I didn’t mind him. But there was a scene in with Michelle Forbes he was so bad in she almost laughed. Maybe she did. I think the majority of the time he was pretty decent. I almost would’ve preferred him over RR.

Daniel Pilon was adequate as Alan, but he certainly didn't have that spark that Chris Bernau did.

Pilon was excellent as Max Dubujack on Ryan's Hope. Really had that spark in that role, so it was surprising that he didn't have it when playing Alan.

At the time, I kept wondering if he was holding back. Pilon knew from the get-go he was a temporary sub, so he didn't want to commit the ultimate offense of outshining the actor he was subbing for.

For whatever reason, he failed to really take off in the Alan role.

As for Ron Raines, he was playing a completely different character who happened to have the name Alan Spalding.

Who could have played Alan instead of Pilon or Raines?

Maybe Pilon would’ve been the better choice given what AuntLiz said. Maybe he was holding back? Maybe he just wasn’t into it since he knew it was only temporary? At times he was very good. He had a few scenes with certain characters where he really shined, but mostly next to powerhouses on GL mentioned above his acting was very “soap opera.”

Was Bernau’s death sudden?

R253, I couldn’t agree more, Aunt Liz — Ron Raines’s Alan was not the same character. People loved him and I think he’s a great actor, but it was not the same character at all. I felt similarly about many of the characters on ATWT who were brought back under Hogan Sheffer (Craig, Meg, Dusty).

My strongest memory of Pilon’s Alan is when Alan was faking paralysis. He’s in the wheelchair, and someone who suspects he’s faking (Harley? Nadine?) jabs him in the leg with a huge hat pin.

R256 It seems so. I don’t think they thought he was going to die. They expected him to come back.

Bernau left GL in 1988 and died in June 1989. I think there's always been an assumption he had HIV/AIDS so I don't think he was expected to return.

R259 Then Pilon should’ve given his all. Maybe they would’ve hired him. He may have thought he was temp, but if he would’ve given it his all he wouldn’t be the first temp to earn the job.

Actors get to sick to work and have to have subs all the time. That' standard in the world of soaps.

I'm sure when Bernau got too sick to work in June 1988, they all assumed he'd bounce back and be back at work.

It's doubtful Bernau ever said he had AIDS. And likely no one in charge ever officially said AIDS, but probably whispered it. Reportedly, Bernau was open with his castmates about being gay, so in 1988, it would be natural for the castmates to assume it was AIDS.

Pilon was Alan for more than a year, right?

According to Soap Opera Central, Pilon played Alan regularly for a year, and then did several one-day returns.

[quote]Daniel Pilon (July 25, 1988 to June 23, 1989; August 28, 1989, September 21, 1989, January 16, 1990)

Didn’t he come back for those one offs because of Beth returning from the dead?

That was sad. The music! Ugh.

Is Jill Farren Phelps going to be a guest on the Alice Barrett Locher Room interview?

Yes r267, with Ellen Parker, Genie Francis and Robin Strasser.

They’re going to take turns beating her with a bag of oranges, for charity.

Here is a clip of Daniel Pilon returning for a one off. Great episode all around- Alan has been implicated in taking money for Beth’s ransom. This is after they found out it was staged and Beth wasn’t alive. Phillip wants to hurt Alan deeply. So, he offers Roger VP of Spaulding in front of Alan. Alan is shaken. As they leave Alan tells Phillip both Roger and Blake know Beth isn’t in that coffin and implores Phillip to open it.

Bonus- a good Sonni/Maurreen scene and Big Billy lecturing Lil Billy about bullying.

It’s sadly not the full episode.

R268 wins the award for one of the all-time best replies on a Marvelous Midwestern thread. 🏆

This is the culmination of the Beth is alive scam with all our favorites (Rick, Sonni, Roger, Phillip , Blake, Bradley) there to see Beth’s imposter Dana. Great episode all around.

Daniel Pilon was definitely on for a few weeks during this.

Last 5 seconds Beth is shown by a campfire to actually be alive.

The final episode of Another World - June 25, 1999.

Aired 25 years ago today.

[quote]Aired 25 years ago today.

Thanks for the reminder. But it was 26 years ago today.

Is this from the Contessa?

The chick who's WAY too attached to the P&G soaps. Like, seriously, she scares me.

Maybe r275 but she also knows her stuff.

Bernau WAS Alan Spaulding. He loved Phillip beyond measure. He was changed by Hope (the show should not have lost her ESPECIALLY after Alan Michael came on and especially when he was hospitalized).

Bernau often paused before he, as Alan, would answer a question. He sized up every situation he was in.

Two scenes he did with Beverlee really stand out in my mind.

They meet in Alan's office after he's been dethroned, May 1988; she asks him what he's going to do. The man has NOTHING at this point and he says, "I don't know. I haven't made my mind up yet." And it sounds like a threat. Like this isn't over. Brilliant.

Another time he and Alex are yelling at each other at the country club; he warns Alex not to blab that he lied about Josh not being Marah's father. "Marah's REAL father Josh Lewis is back at Lewis Oil! You know what sweet revenge those savages are capable of!"

Alex: "We'll find a way to keep the damage down. Our company will survive the likes of Reva Shayne!"

Electric. Fire. And we were spoiled with fantastic performances every day.

Today, we have the unending saga of Aristotle who gives a flying fig!

Donna Cuntessa can only be trusted 1/4 of the time. She’s a whacko. And a cunt. A nasty cunt at that. She lies. Ask Melissa. Linda Dano, who never says anything bad about anyone, cannot stand Donna Bridges!

I liked how Bernau was written to love his adopted son more than his bio son. Yes, he loved Phillip beyond words. Did anyone ever think he was jealous of Beth? Phillip’s love of Beth was actually all consuming. It is what made them a super couple. When Bernal’s Alan was taken to task by Judi’s Beth, you could sense 1) He knew she was very intelligent and tough, 2) he knew she loved Phillip 3) he knew Phillip loved her far beyond him. He knew Beth was always going to win. When he could, he took the chance to take her out, but only when it was a sure thing like her going missing. Am I wrong?

YOu may be on to something R279.

Pam wrote complicated characters including MALE characters.

We'd never get a scene like this on today's soaps.

I haven’t seen the explanation of Beth’s 1986 kidnapping played out in 1989. Damn. This was good shit. Pam did her homework. I’m convinced Pam secretly wrote Beth’s “death” now. Beth was taken by Professor Blackburn who shot Phillip in front of her. That was the last we saw Judi’s Beth. This re-enactment shows Beth was dragged to a boat shed, was going to be raped (again), and decided she would beat Professor Blackburn to death with a boat ore. Intense. Beth Chamberlin did a fantastic job. Beth remembering the assault then pounding the ore down until in breaks,, then seeing the actual murder, was well done. Beth was traumatized into dissociation. All around great writing and acting by everyone. I’d been looking for this for so long.

Here it is.

[quote] Ask Melissa. Linda Dano, who never says anything bad about anyone, cannot stand Donna Bridges!

oh shit. I had no idea.

Donna B was gossipgrrrl in the early days of DL soap threads.

I am upset now. sorry. i should have known.

she didn't like me. i accused her of creating pissing contests but I respected her.

The GL stylist during 88-90 was terrible. They styled the beauty out of Beth Chamberlin and damn near made Sherry Stringfield dowdy sometimes. Reva didn’t look especially dazzling either. Whomever it was did an all around terrible job.

Is that Susan Moore?

R280 wow

R283 Donna gossips, but it is almost always wrong gossip. lol She thinks that because she knows someone who worked at SOD 20 years ago, she is an insider with all the gossip. She’s a nasty old cunt. Very vicious.

Yeah, they really made Beth look like a country bumpkin when Beth Chamberlin, a beautiful woman, started playing her. Super Long dishwater blond mousy hair, horribly cut and styled, with clothes that Judi’s Beth would never even wear. WTF. I saw a 1990 clip and the even made Maureen Garrett look terrible. Whoever took over in 1991 started getting it right

Pam got lambasted for writing scenes where men showed affection to each other. Which was mostly unjustified criticism......

.....though there WAS the one scene with Philip and Rick......was it a teddy bear? stuffed elephant? Something where Philip gave the stuffed animal to Rick and quite a few people made comments that it seemed very romantic.....

[quote] Yeah, they really made Beth look like a country bumpkin when Beth Chamberlin, a beautiful woman, started playing her. Super Long dishwater blond mousy hair, horribly cut and styled, with clothes that Judi’s Beth would never even wear. WTF. I saw a 1990 clip and the even made Maureen Garrett look terrible. Whoever took over in 1991 started getting it right

That was a terrible style era. At ATWT that was when they had Kim wearing those "Who Shot The Couch?" blouses dresses. Just the loudest prints and patterns, all country influenced. I'm surprised the sets weren't filled with Longaberger baskets.

Beth’s style might’ve worked when she first came back after 3 years with Neal, but after she regained her memory she should’ve regained her fashion sense. They really short changed Beth Chamberlin’s beauty.

Thanks for posting, R265.

I always loved that melancholy version of the theme.

Why did GL bring Brandon Spaulding back to life in 1984 only to kill him a month later?

And why did GL go to the trouble of giving Brandon a daughter with his mistress, Sharina, but then not do anything with that newly revealed daughter, Victoria?

Yes, I know that 14 years later, they brought on Victoria's daughter, also named Victoria, but barely gave her anything to do and ultimately wrote her off. She was the Valerie Spencer of GL.

[quote]he didn't want to commit the ultimate offense of outshining the actor he was subbing for.

I don't know what you are talking about.

Wasn’t that Brandon/Sharina story ended prematurely in 1984? i thought I read that. Soaps were very weird about interracial romance back then.

The Brandon/Sharina thing did end suddenly, and after we met Alex's sister we never heard from her again.

A weird retcon, much like the change-o presto to Amanda becoming Brandon's daughter instead of Alan's daughter.

[quote]like the change-o presto to Amanda becoming Brandon's daughter instead of Alan's daughter.

How did they explain that? Did it make any sense at all?

Not really, R297. It was one of the stupidest mistakes ever made by GL and a huge slap in the face to the legacy of Douglas Marland. And Toby Poser was horrendous casting as Amanda.

They de-SORASed ger as well, by quite a bit.

It was really a dumb story. If they wanted to recast her, they could have done so without the BS of a retcon.

Who was writing at the time of the retcon?

Megan McTavish is the one who brought Amanda back to Springfield.

R298, I couldn’t agree with you more. People loved Toby Poser, and I’m sure she would’ve been great as a different character, but what a slap in the face to viewers like me who loved Amanda and Kathleen Cullen.

I enjoyed Toby Poser a lot. She was a nice addition to the show. And a good actress.

She just shouldn't have been cast as Amanda. She was another one of these actors who was essentially playing a new character who happened to have the name of someone already known in Springfield.

Show should have brought back Kathleen Cullen, who should never have been let go in 1983. And show should have honored Amanda's history, not rewritten it.

Find another place for Toby. Perhaps she could have been another offspring for Alan from some one-night stand he undoubtedly had over the years. Or from one of Brandon's one-night stands.

R304 agree. I liked her, but she wasn't Amanda.

Even if Kathleen Cullen wasn't available or for whatever reason they didn't want her back, they could have cast a more mature actress who at least somewhat resembled her.

Amanda should have been brought back sooner, in addition to being a Spaulding she had ties to Ross and Josh.

Amanda working as a madame with a stable of whores was absurd.

Who could have played Amanda in the 90s?

I agree that Amanda should’ve been brought back sooner. I also thought Ben Warren should’ve been Ben McFarren.

Toby Poser could’ve been Rita’s daughter. Gus also could’ve been Rita’s child.

Linda Dano got such a kick (she laughed SO hard) listening to the story about how 2 fans found the AW bench and took a shit on it! True story.

For whatever reason TGL wanted nothing else to do with Rita, which I find strange, but some shows are funny about their history.

What is the AW b

Who could have made a good Amanda. ...

as she was originally conceived. ..

maybe one of the MJs from AW?

R309 They were supposed to bring her back in 1987-ish. I think the actress said no so they scuttled it.

R289, Alan Michael had had enough of Phillip trying to protect him from Alan (who WAS after his son's trust fund.)

Alan-Michael said to Phillip: "You want to be my daddy. Go be a daddy to your own kid. Meredith's."

Then Phillip blocked AM from leaving the room just by towering over him.

Kinda sorta homoerotic but still, a great acting scene.

Lenore Kasdorf was let go from Santa Barbara in 1987, she was written out right around the time the Dobsons were locked out of that show.

Imagine if she had returned to GL in 1988, around the time Holly returned. Although I think it Peter Simon’s Ed would not have felt like Rita’s husband.

Carl Evans was so fucking sexy and hot. Yes, Rick Hearst was an improvement, but both were effective and hot. Carl was masterbate material. His scene with Sherry Stringfield’s Blake were HOT. It took him to another level. AND He had sexual chemistry with Beth Chamberlin’s Beth.

Carl was boyish and sexy.

Rick, from day one, was more like a man.

I wish Rick could’ve come on as one of Alan sons from an affair. And we could’ve kept Carl. So sexy.

Between 1980 and 1984, GL changed a ton

They never should have lost Rita, Amanda, Hope or Hillary

Did Hillary have fans?

Hillary came across as too manly.

Well yes, r320, if you’re comparing her to Alan, Henry and Kelly.

Hillary should’ve been recast.

GL changed a lot but stayed great save for maybe 6 months which it was still decent. 4 HWs and it had no effect on quality or ratings as the show was top 4 (2, 3, 4, 5 on any given week in 4 years).

Did AW ever recover after the LeMay peak? Or was it all downhill once he left?

I still think Olivia should have been revealed to be Ed and Rita's child, wrapped up in the San Cristobel mess.

R323 Ratings wise- no.

R324 Yes. They missed the boat with Rita’s potential kids. I guess they figured GL had more younger viewers since Pam’s tenure and didn’t think she’d add much to the show.

R325, we asked a focus group and they said no to Rita's kids.

Man, 41 years later and I could slide Hillary in there.

Should have stopped Hope.

Marsha DID give us the Guiding Plight.

does anyone know or weigh in on if this is Beverlee in Barbados at about 52:42.

You can't really see her face; if they were going to fly her to Barbados, I'd think they would want to show her.

forgot link

For the poster who said Carl was "masterbate" (sp) material.

R327 Yes, that was Beverlee and the actress playing her sister.

Apparently that scene went sort of haywire because it was super windy, and they had to get the ashes scattering shot while they were still there, so it was filmed from a distance.

R329 Autocorrected to that spelling which made me doubt myself.

If I was at that game, I'd ask Carl and Grant to sign their jockstraps for me.....

Carl was a cute young man. I loved him. Reminded me of a high school crush Mario. Decent soap actor. Rick Hearst was probably the definitive adult Alan Michael. The other one was dud.

Where was Hope? So Elvira Brady Bunch became Miss Piggy. So what? She was never all that. There were TONS more underemployed soap actresses, with a lower body quotient to that TONS, who could have easily handled the role.

The Bauer hatred by later PTB is what killed this show. Same for their other shows. It's a P&G problem.

Why did Carl leave the show. He was numero uno on my "wish I could blow him" list for Springfield. And then he was gone.

R334 He didn't know of your yearnings. If only he had!

I agree about Carl Tye Evans.

I went to a GL luncheon when he was on (probably his first year). He was dating Martha Byrne and brought her with him the event. He was even hotter in person.

Martha was getting knobbed by Carl? How unfair.

By the time he left, his character and Sherry Stringfield’s were getting into a relationship. He had a shower fantasy about her and JHFC he was so fucking sexy. Off the charts sexy. His body, the way he just devoured her. Really hot. R334 Hell yes! All day!

MARTHA BYRNE was getting that? Life is so unfair.

God, I wanted Grant -- or Phillip -- to be my older brother; someone to chase away the bullies and slip me 20 dollar bills.

Carl and Sherry had great chemistry. She had chemistry with everyone.

R329 That’s an photo from the Alan Locher collection, right? Locher is SO annoying!! He has to call everyone ‘my friend’. My friend Carl Tye, my friend Grant, my friend Terrell, my friend Kim and on and on. Why does he have to make sure we all know that he has friends? It’s so irritating.

[quote] someone to chase away the bullies and slip me 20 dollar bills.

That's not what I wanted Grant to slip me.......

R342, ha!

I suppose I walked into that.

or backed into it.

R329. not that this is a compliment to Alan, but Ryan Murphy did the same thing at the Globes in an acceptance speech. "My friend Matt Bomer," etc.

Being in show biz and around the actors is difficult. They're so damn personable and charming.

But, generally, I don't think they know how to be true friends. Or parents. or partners in relationships. They should just be kept in storage until they are rolled out and make another movie or TV show and then go back to some private waiting room.

On Alan’s Threads page there’s a lovely photo of Kristi Ferrell, Larkin Malloy anc Kim Zimmer at an anniversary party for GL in 1987.

Kristi turned out to be koo koo crazy.

I've been watching some The Edge of Night, Rexford Clinic storyline. Chris Goutman was smoking hot - distractingly hot. Also, Ann Flood is a beautiful woman. The story is pretty good, too, and features guest star Doris Belack.

The Rexford Clinic was a thrilling story; I will never forget watching the climax at 4 PM ET in Boston, I think on the New Hampshire affiliate.

Slesar was brilliant.

The Rexford Clinic was absolutely one of Edge's best storylines. Led into the Sky Whitney/Jeff Brown saga.

It was Ann Flood's last major storyline on Edge but she was fantastic in it. Was disappointed that she didn't get another storyline after her amazing performance. Brilliant to cast Doris Belack in that role.

Agreed about the Wexford Clinic story and about Chris Goutman being hot. Lucky Marcia McCabe getting the Goutman cock for decades before they split.

Chris G definitely was hot in the late 70s. BDF for days.

And not sure if Kristi was crazy, but she was definitely struggling with a coke addiction.

And Marcia wasn’t the only one getting Goutman cock!

Yesterday was Guiding Light's 73rd anniversary (on TV).

It will be 90 years since its radio debut come 2027.

Do we have video of the former Goutman hotness?

R341, in fairness, those people probably do consider Locher a friend. I mean, they worked together for years.

Personally, I don't think Goutman was ever all that hot, but you can see him at age 24 in his very first (uncredited) screen appearance in "The Doctors," episode September 7, 1977 (Doug Marland).

He's an underfive playing "Stuart March," who shows up to walk his sister "Mary Jane" (Katherine Glass) down the aisle at her wedding to "Tom Carroll" (Jonathan Frakes).

He enters the scene just before the 4 minute mark. Lots of 70s hair.

He was handsome, for sure.

Goutman and Mark Pinter both had a similar sort of handsomeness and charm in that era. It's very leading-man-of-the-local-theater vibe. But charming.

From both his turns on Texas and Edge of Night, Goutman seemed perfectly at ease playing the charming, suave guy who could snap at the smallest thing and turn into a monster.

When did Craig Montgomery stop being such a cad? Was that a Marland thing, a Sierra thing?

Marland made Craig a hero and Barbara a bitch.

He was brilliant.

Bryce always played Craig is sympathetic though.

I wanted Marland era Craig inside me quite deeply. Those lips......

Martha Byrne's husband finally reported to federal prison yesterday: FCI Milan in Michigan (classified low security).

That's the same prison they sent Billy McFarland (Fyre Festival). I am not very familiar with what Michael McMahon has been accused of, but that prison is said to have good facilities and is well-staffed, with almost a country club vibe.

Well, Byrne can content herself that the Big Beautiful Bill will pass.

And she can be the soap opera poster child for The Banality of Cruelty.

FCI Milan isn't on the list of "country club" federal prisons, but it is low security. It does receive chatter from people familiar with the place about it being a facility where they send a lot of sex offenders. One guard refers to it as a "chomo yard" (child molesters). Also, a lot of contraband to be found (per another guard), probably because it is low security. During COVID it got press about the high rate of infection due to it's "open bay" dormitories of bunk beds for half the population where there are 74 men to a room. See photo.

My guess is, he'll apply for early release in six months (after 1/3 of his sentence is served) and try to get some deal where he's sent to a halfway house or under home arrest for his remaining 12 months. Of course, he's appealing and Martha wants everyone to send cards and letters to Dump for a pardon. The other two defendants tried with him were sent to FCI Allenwood in Pennsylvania, also low security.

Not one of the remaining soaps on the air had a 4th of July setting today and it was completely ignored altogether except for one (I think it was DOOL). Oh how I miss 4th of July soap episodes of yore featuring young men lounging by the pool in Speedos and flip-flops.

Remember the 4th of July when Frannie ran from Casey’s embrace only to be captured by Marsha Talbot?

My family started a 4th family get together because of the Bauer BBQ.

Julian McMahon - who got his start (or at least his US start) on AW, has died.

I loved the Bauer BBQ. Did Pam start that? It seems that the first one was somewhere in those 80s years.

Very hot on Another World. He was considerably bulkier on Nip Tuck but still sexy. RIP.

We never got to see Bert in a swimsuit

Bert seems like she'd prefer to go skinny-dipping.

With the prosthetic leg as a floatie

[quote]Bert seems like she'd prefer to go skinny-dipping.

Only if her buddies Nancy Hughes and Joanne Tate Tourneur joined her.

Nancy Hughes doesn’t like to get her hair wet.

Nancy left the skinny dipping to hussies like Kim and Ellen.

ewwww. the pool smells like vinegar!

Nancy judged Bert for having that young Dr. Nelson sitting on the patio in *clutches pearls* just a swimsuit.

Ellen was a miracle mom who gave birth to a son older than her.

Why did Irna age Ellen the way she did? At the start of the sixties, she was Penny’s age, in her early 20s. By the end of the decade, she was the mother of 30-something Dan.

R381, she was a single-minded evil genius who wouldn't even address the performers by their real names. She also enjoyed belittling the actresses in her charge, enjoyed making them feel plain and ugly.

As the World Turns suffered the most from her whims and unpredictable wrath.

Poor Ellen went from being Penny's contemporary to Nancy's.

R382 She loved GL the most, reportedly.

I never knew that r384. It's easy to go down rabbit holes, though, and find great tidbits.

Just now I was reading about the creation of AW and find some of what is written hard to fully believe. Perhaps AW was supposed to have a more feminist slant but it didn't come to full fruition until Lemay took over. By then all the women had decent work.

ATWT did have female doctors, like homewrecker Susan.

I once read somewhere-maybe here- that Patricia Bruder (Ellen) would hit on all the handsome young men on the show.

Has anybody else heard that?

Phillips killed off Liz Talbot on ATWT by having her fall up the stairs because she was mad at the actress for doing nudity on Broadway.

R385, what are some other things about the creation of AW that were hard to believe?

R386 Well that vinegary Helen Wagner wasn’t fond of Ms Bruder. She didn’t like hussies.

We know Kathleen Widdoes would pinch the guys and or flash her rack at them.

Widdoes flashes her boobs in the 1972 movie “Savages”. I guess that was her trademark.

I wonder if Widdoes ever flashed her titties at the uptight Ms. Wagner.

I guess once they got Ellen paired with David, there wasn't much else they felt they could do with the character. Bill Bell, who was writing the show with Irna, pretty much gave Ellen's storyline to Julie on Days of our Lives, but Julie was a bad girl and more sexual, which is why Julie didn't fall into the Ellen trap until much later.

I would have loved to have seen the early years of ATWT, even knowing how slow it proceeded. Phillips apparently used the 30 minute time slot to slow everything to a glacial pace. It also had more defined sets than other shows which, according to Mary Stuart, had suggestions of rooms and doorways rather than a fully-built set.

And to see Lisa come onto the scene in 1960 would have been great.

Nancy Hughes, who never got over Susan’s tragic pool-related death, refused to swim, let alone skinny dip.

R394: "I would have loved to have seen the early years of ATWT, even knowing how slow it proceeded."

The years I'm dying to see more of are the early 1970's. It makes me crazy that I can't watch Bob cheat on Jennifer with Kim, watch John manipulate the pregnant Kim into marrying him, watch Kim and John's miserable marriage, watch Kim and John's miserable divorce / custody battle...

Larry Bryggman and Kathryn Hays were two fabulous actors who always brought out the best in each other. And while he's often overlooked, Don Hastings made Bob Hughes the perfect "everyman" target of Dr. John Dixon's incessant needling.

A part of me just needs to hope against hope that those episodes are SOMEWHERE.

While I find the wrapping up of ATWT in its final year pretty unsatisfying, I did like that Susan Hughes did get a mention when Nancy died. Somebody came across a bronzed baby shoe and it was said that it was Nancy’s daughter Susan who had died in a swimming accident. So they even got her death right too.

I guess saying “struck by lightning” would have been too dramatic in the moment.

R397- I was a hardcore OLTL (and Y&R) fan as a 8-12 yo kid and never watched ATWT... I had some brief GL moments from always being bored with GH in the late 80's..

I have gotten to watch GL and ATWT on Youtube. and both are extremely enjoyable-

GL- in that 83-84 era and then the late 80's especially.. I really like the late 70's too..

ATWT- Clearly the late 80's but I have really grown to love the late 70's- Its really comforting. (cannot get into anything past 92-to the end

That being said- ATWT's finale was really awful in my opinion--I was just a very BASIC episode-- And that final shot of the spinning globe on Bob's desk.. In theory it's lovely, however it's execution was like a high school play. Just really underwhelming.

GL was unwatchable and I would not even go back and watch the Peapack era.. I found AMC's final bad as well.

But that ATWT finale- just a lousy sendoff.

That being said

I'm not even drinking^^ That being said? Sorry all-

I give the show credit. I'd like it even more if there had been return visits by Ellen and Penny.

the show went off 15 years ago and both women are still alive now.

I'm sure they could have gone on camera 15 years ago.

Except for Sheffer, the only time I enjoyed the show a great deal was under Marland. He was the best.

When I see clips of a younger Bob Hughes.....I'm like, damn daddy, I could get on that.

R401- He was HOT. Such a handsome face- In the Jeff Bridges vein. Classically handsome.

How does one fall UP the stairs?

R398, I totally agree. They had an opportunity to show the cast together one last time but instead they put them all in separate stories. For Christ’s sake, Bob was having a retirement party. They could have had the last half of the episode wrap up the stories and maybe create a new drama just to show that life goes on in Oakdale. It was lazy and slap dash.

R403, you’ve never tripped up the stairs?

R404- THAT IS IT! I could not my finger on what it was that was so ordinary about the finale- That is the key part. It was very much a run of the mill episode with characters going about their business- in their separate storylines. Nothing was exciting about it. I think that every finale of a soap should have some sort of exciting cliffhanger mixed in as well- there was just a bunch of happy endings.. I don't know- it was just -blah- But I was not a fan of the show, so I really have no right.

OLTL had many of the families together in the final episodes- even though the Prospect Park thing fucked everything up- it was like night and day.

Goutman was fried and angry and gave up on the show 2 years before it actually ended.

Whatever one might say about Ellen Wheeler's choices, she worked her ass off for GL until the bitter end.

GL was quite enjoyable the last year and a half.

Which couple had triplets?

I've been visiting the Paley Center and watching old ATWTs. I've been focused on the Claire Lowell/Michael Shea/Lisa/Baby Chuckie storyline. This was 1968ish. Ellen had switched to the bun, and Dan had been SORASed, but still didn't know that Ellen was his bio mother. Ellen decided to keep that a secret. Oh, and Susan wanted some kind of fellowship at the hospital, and David thought she should focus on Dan more.

While all that was going on, Ellen's mom, Claire (Barbara Berjer (AW's Bridget) was being lied to by bad ole Michael Shea. In the last episode I saw, she had just found out that Chuckie was indeed Michael Shea's son, and she started drinking again. Dr. Bob found her passed out with an empty bottle of booze. That was my cliffhanger until I can get back to the Paley Center.

Barber Berjer did a damned fine job. Her character was older than Michael's, and she had a bunch of insecurities about Michael and the lovely, young Lisa, but Shea somehow convinced Claire that baby Chuckie was really an Eldridge. I can't remember the Eldridge's dude's first name. Claire was content, but then overheard the shocking truth with organ music and everything. It was so good.

Nice little Q&A that Mike Poirier did with John Kelly Genovese/John K. Read

Thanks for posting that interview, R411. I couldn't agree more about the lack of class tension. No more pool boys, no more manicurists, no more desperate "strivers" like ATWT's Craig Montgomery or B&B's Brooke Logan... It makes for VERY boring soaps.

It's because TV has become so corporate. They think no one wants to see anyone who isn't rich......which, to be honest, may be true of younger people and their viewing habits.

Class tension is important, but the main problem with modern soaps is that they've stopped taking chances and have stopped being provocative. I understand the world has changed and sensibilities have changed, but there are ways to tell engaging stories that don't offend modern-day eyes. Also, develop some new characters, stop relying on the same five characters who drove story in the 80s and 90s to be your leads in the present day.

And stop keeping calcified relics like Lauren fucking Koslow and Josh fucking Taylor on your fucking show. Deirdre Hall can stay but not the others.

Soaps would work better if they went back to having more working/middle class stories and characters. It is hard to believe some of these characters are supposedly rich, when they either live in a hotel with the rest of the cast, or in a “mansion” furnished by Wayfair.

Days of our Lives appears to have no more than 6 sets, all of wish are cramped and cheaply decorated, and yet we are supposed to believe the DiMera and Kiriakis families are billionaires.

I have not watched soaps since 2013 since OLTL was done (2014?) Anyway Lauren Koslow was aging AMAZINGLY- Has she finally hit the wall?

OLTL and Y&R were my shows as a boy and young man.

[quote]stop relying on the same five characters who drove story in the 80s and 90s to be your leads in the present day.

I don't know what you are talking about.

Scoche?

Koslow is amazingly well-preserved. She looks great.

[quote] Class tension is important, but the main problem with modern soaps is that they've stopped taking chances and have stopped being provocative.

BTG has a degree of that element working with the "Eva Thomas" character, played by the amazing actress, Ambyr Michelle. What a casting find! Really love her. There's also her money-hungry mother, "Leslie," the show's lead villainess.

That soap is also featuring a homeless woman named "June" who will more than likely turn out to be the birth mother of the two children, now teenagers, who were adopted by the resident gay couple, Martin & Smitty, several years ago.

BTG has also been featuring the other two members of the singing group, The Articulettes, that the lead matriarch of the soap, "Anita Dupree," belonged to when she first started in show business. The fact that these two women were left in the dust and missed out on a life of fame and fortune after Anita went solo has played heavily in the story of the group's propsed reunion. The "Sharon" character is especially pissed over the direction her life took and has let Anita have it more than once. She's agreed to the reunion, but told Tracy that she intends to do something to make herself the star. This has been an entertaining story. (Yes, think Diana Ross and the Supremes.)

Tomorrow -- July 7, 2025 -- marks the 50th anniversary of the debut of Ryan's Hope.

In commemoration, Christian Slater will throw Ilene Kristen down a flight of stairs.

After posting the Ryan's Hope anniversary notice here, I decided to start a thread for the 50th anniversary.

Very clever r424. You should post that on the Ryan's Hope thread and see how many people actually understand the connection between the Christian Slater and the subject matter.

BTG is terrible.

My vote for sexiest Bay City actors ever: John Bolger (Gabe) and Robert Gentry (Philip Lyons) with a special mention to Leon Russom (Willis Frame).

John Bolger was so hot, and I was glad he had a second chance after being somewhat miscast as Philip on GL.

Who hasn’t rubbed one out while looking at John Bolger!

Do we think John Bolger had chemistry with Judi Evans?

[quote]My vote for sexiest Bay City actors ever: John Bolger (Gabe) and Robert Gentry (Philip Lyons) with a special mention to Leon Russom (Willis Frame).

Robert Kelker Kelly was the living, breathing embodiment of sex.

I also thought the last guy to play Dennis Wheeler was quite good-looking.

Mark Mortmer

Tom Eplin, depending on the day

Tomas Rivera (can't think of the actor's name)

Laurence Lau was good-looking

Back in December of 1991 my then future husband took me to a fancy dinner in NYC at The Sign Of The Dove. l looked up and almost fainted when I saw who our waiter was. Non other than Phililp Spaulding himself - John Bolger.

R430 I thought he did, but clearly not in the same way as Grant. But Bolger and MKA had chemistry off the charts.

The funny thing is, John was a good choice on paper for Philip if you took the idea that Philip was becoming more of a "Spaulding" very literally, that in Alan's absence he'd become more of the rich young man, the one who wrote a novel, etc.

But Grant definitely fit the concept of someone born a Marler, who was raised by different parents. He may have been surrounded by wealth but always had the conflict between that darker side, and the good Philip, the roots of where he came from.

I don't know if you could say it was really a miscast but more of a failed reconceptualizing of Philip, perhaps.

Oh yeah. I forgot about Bolger and MKA!

Yeah, I didn’t mention MKA because everyone thought they had chemistry. I’m on the fence about him and Judi. They certainly didn’t like Grant and Judi.

MKA had the most chemistry with St. Beth. I expected India to chow down on Beth’s snatch any minute.

Robert KK (Sam)- I really disliked him as an actor. Could not get over my feeling that he was not a giving actor. Glad when he left, horrified when they brought him back

Chris Bruno (Dennis) - Too bland...he had zero chemistry with the ladies...So far removed from the Dennis we grew up with

Mark Mortimer - Pretty enough but not really an actor. A useless part IMO

Tom Eplin / Good screen presence but I never found him to be sexy. I liked him best playing against Cali Timmins which was way too brief

Tomas Rivera (Tomas) - better than Mortimer but another part that did not bring anything to storylines

Laurence Lau - Bland Bland Bland...but he seems to be a nice guy...very wrong for the part...a bit asexual...no one ever reached Richard Bekins' level.

Robert Gentry was mentioned. I read a few months ago that he died. Do we know anything about his personal life. He started in soaps in 1966 yet I know so little about him. I presume he was gay and could not really talk to the daytime press about it. Another AW actor I've often wondered about was William Grey Espy (Mitch Blake) . Anyone has any info on those two ?

They missed an opportunity when Dennis came back to return Iris to her villainess roots-he could have started dating someone Iris didn’t find suitable-maybe Nancy McGowan or a previously unseen sister of Frankie’s.

Both gay r438. Espy is the hottest of all, to me. Another hot man was Clarice's brother Denny.

R439, how about bringing back Molly Ordway?

Yes r441-but I like the idea of bringing Nancy back, since that could reignite the Rachel/Iris feud. Also, Nancy and Vicky didn’t like each other so they could have conflict.

Makes sense r442.

Yes, it is strange that they did not bring back some members of those core families: Nancy, Peter Love, Sandy + Blaine, Michael + Marianne Randolph...I would have loved to see Pat Randolph move back to her family home and maybe Michael come back to Bay City as the gay man Harding Lemay intended him to be way back then. AW was one of the worst soap in using and respecting its history

I agree that Bill Espy was sexy when he first came to Bay City but as much as I liked Felicia he had zero chemistry with her. Felicia always seemed ill at ease in romantic pairings, kind of boring really especially paired with Lukas. Felicia was exciting as part of a pack of friends not as a romantic heroine. Espy worked best with/against Wyndham's Rachel and I was hoping they would eventually reconnect. They were quite popular as a couple, could it be that La Wyndham did not want to work with Espy again. I hated so much Rachel with Carl...

I would have been more open to Carl and Rachel if he hadn't had recent misdeeds when he and Rachel got together.

But it was very hard to swallow, despite the great chemistry between Wyndham and Charles Keating.

Plus the last few years of their story(stories?) were just.....as if a drug fueled monkey wrote them. (Or a gorilla, perhaps, the one that taunted Cass.)

Charles Keating was an incredible actor no questions about it BUT he was not Doug Watson as much as they tried to recreate the Mac/Rachel power couple. It's as if Rachel had to be with an older man again to be really happy, forget that Carl was a psychopath who tried to destroy many of her friends and family members. Obviously both actors enjoyed working together but did they have to play lovers ? Cringeworthy IMO

[quote] Felicia was exciting as part of a pack of friends not as a romantic heroine

She was great as the friend. If they didn't try so hard to couple her (and always eventually give up) she could have been more defined as the type who goes through men like Kleenex and then goes back to her friends with all her regrets. Being a romance novelist fits.

Loved her friendships with Cass and Wally but they should have been gay.

Was Carl the one responsible for putting Kathleen in a wheelchair? I started watching after Cass was kidnapped by Cecile but I guess Kathleen’s big thing was getting up out of her wheelchair at her aborted wedding.

Yes he was r449. Julie Osburn could play Miranda’s sister on And Just Like That.

Carl tried to murder Rachel and several of her friends

He would have made more sense with Donna, given their past, but by then I'd had it with the redemption of psychopaths.

They should have had Donna, Rachel, and Felicia team up to murder him and get off.

Several years ago, a poster here on these DL threads insisted that Robert Gentry has been a street hustler. One of his regular clients was a CBS executive. Their relationship progressed to the point where Gentry and the exec were exclusive. The exec arranged for him get the gig on GL as Ed Bauer.

Meanwhile, another poster here on the DL soap threads insisted the Billy Espy was not gay, but had commitment issues. Thus he was never in a long-term relationship with a woman.

[quote] Julie Osburn could play Miranda’s sister on And Just Like That.

She really could.

I remember those posts r452. More recent posts have quoted Linda Dano outing Espy.

Espy did not seem to have any problems kissing Rachel, Alice or Janice...maybe it was just a problem with Felicia...that does not mean he was gay...as for Gentry as a hustler it seems ridiculous to me...he was was too pretty to be a street hustler and surely would not have needed to stand on a street corner to hook up with 'clients'

VW always tried to justify Rachel and Carl, as Rachel was doing what Mac did for her. The difference was that Rachel was spoiled and jealous and was sending baby clothes to a woman who had just miscarried. She wasn't a sociopath trying to kill people. I get that VW wanted a story, any good story, but the Carl thing was too much.

Also, VW got that weird accent when she started acting with Charles Keating.

Wow, I've been here for a while and didn't remember the Bob Gentry rumor!

[quote]as for Gentry as a hustler it seems ridiculous to me...he was was too pretty to be a street hustler and surely would not have needed to stand on a street corner to hook up with 'clients'

Street hustler may have been the wrong term for what he was doing in the mid 1960 -- a very different time.

The point is, he was getting paid for his sexual services.

According to an eldergay I used to know who worked on soaps Gentry was apparently a teen runaway who had no problem in 1950s NYC finding a cheap place to live. He wasn’t a street hustler. He’d go to certain bars and develop a paying clientele there. One of his devoted regulars was a married CBS executive. The eldergay said to me “You know that number in Evita where Eva has different lovers going through revolving doors as she moves up the ladder? That was Bob.”

I'm now picturing Argentinian descamisados chanting Ed Bauer! Ed Bauer! Ed Bauer!" Or "Ross Chandler! Ross Chandler! Ross Chandler!"

He was hot enough to pull it off. And he aged well. By the time he hit AW as Philip (sp? I think it was more French at first) every gay viewer I knew was smitten. Then he had a long, complicated run on AMC and was fired too soon.

Too bad he was all wrong for Ed Bauer when he tried to reprise the role. For me, by then, I was still getting over Peter Simon replacing Hulswit. Don't even mention the guy from AMC - but he could have worked as a new character. Maybe even as Mike Bauer.

Hell. As a teen I used to wish my own father was more compassionate and understanding like Mac Cory. They did look alike.

Now all these years later, add a mustache and longer hair, and thirty more pounds, I could play old Mac myself.

I adored that character. A flawed but well-intentioned man and his family. He will always be the best soap patriarch to me. Doug Watson's death hit me hard.

Felicia was best when she was playing against someone outlandish like Cecile or Wallingford. I never liked her pairings with Mitch and Lucas, they were both dull.

I did like her with Patrick Tovatt (Zane), however.

I know they had to restructure the Red Swan story after Doug Watson died-what was the original story supposed to be?

I got hooked when Cecile was after poor Pat Randolph’s job. Then she started drugging her husband Jamie. God she was a real piece of work.

I got hooked on AW around the time Rachel was destroying Ted Clark. John Randolph was drinking then too.

I remember ATWT and SFT from toddler age. Also Edge of Night.

Edge and AW came on after school. My memories of Edge go way back to the original Phoebe Smith. Poor Martha Marceau tried so hard.

[quote]Felicia was exciting as part of a pack of friends not as a romantic heroine.

For a romance novelist, she seemed to be especially lacking in that department. But Linda Dano always seemed asexual, whether she was Rae on ABC shows or as Felicia. She was interesting and fun to watch, but very awkward in a sexual context.

Gentry must have had considerable sizemeat to command the attention he did from various powerful men.

William Grey Espy lives in Dothan, Alabama with his wife, Veda. They've been married for decades now, something like 35 years. The photo below is from 2019.

The story I read about him when Y&R wanted him to return for a few episodes during the "Jill is adopted" retcon is that they had a really hard time tracking him down. As I recall, Espy had moved back to Alabama after one of his parents was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, as there was a farm there to be run, so he took over doing that.

btw - During his original run on Y&R, Espy had a hot and heavy affair with castmate, Janice Lynde. I believe the show initially tried to keep it hush hush, because her character, Leslie Brooks, was supposed to be the shy, introverted, virginal Brooks sister, while his character was part of the young marrieds supercouple, Snapper & Chris, so Espy and Lynde's real life affair didn't jibe with those images.

So that settles it at least for Bill Espy...Wasn't Janyce Lynde on AW at the same time playing in this dreadful storyline involving Russ Matthews and her jealous manager, Jason Dunlap ? Another example of a strong actress riddled with an unimaginative storyline that the AW's writers were so good at. I always hated those characters who were singers on the show...Tracy, Melissa, Joe Morton, Ricky Paul Goldin to name a few. Those cabaret scenes were as exciting as dishwater and just halted the flow of the show.

R469 Excuse moi?

Here's a few tidbits about Robert Gentry: From a 1981 article

He was born in 1940 . At the time he started on AW as Philip Lyons (originally written for a French actor) he was 39 yo. Iris knew Philippe as an acquaintance from her days on the French Riviera and brought the gigolo to charm young and innocent Cecile de Poulignac (Susan Keith) so that she would loose interest in her precious son Dennis.

Bob grew up in Manhattan and was part of a nine children Catholic family. He said that it was definitely lower middle class. Growing up, he identified himself a lot like the characters of the Horatio Algers' books he read: impoverished boys and their rise from humble backgrounds to security and comfort through good works.

He had fond memories of his parents. His biological father was not present but his stepfather was wonderful and he got along well with his brothers and sisters, among them a musician, a truck driver, an army man.

Bob remembers himself as a tough kid and was part of a gang of smart alecks, stole bottles from trucks, played stick ball in the street and often got into some juvenile troubles. He loved his teen years

Bob attended New York University which he enjoyed and there decided to become an actor which he described as living a starving existence. He lived on the East side of Manhattan in a cold water flat which was where most starving actors with their dreams lived at the time.

He took acting classes at night. Irene Dailey (Aunt Liz) was one of his first teachers and they would later on share scenes on AW

Bob was fascinated by all that was underground, all that was unconventional. He loved to spend time in the subways to study people, bag ladies, strange and funny people and tried to incorporate what he saw in what he wrote.

One day, however, he was mugged at gunpoint. He was shocked thinking that it could have been all over in a second. 'The gun is in my mouth, and I thought, this is it...I got over it eventually but that kind of experience does affect you " When John Lennon was killed it reminded him of this incident and he was astonished that there was so little gun control.

Bob said that he was discovered by Dorothy Purser, then exec at GL and future Texas head writer. It is also at GL that he met Paul Rauch who would later hire him to play Philip on AW

Bob was married for seven years and in 1981 separated from his wife who kept their California home. While at AW he lived in a cozy Tudor-Styled building on Manhattan's East side. He is seeing a woman who also writes.

Bob is friend with Beverly Penberthy (Pat Randolph) and they worked on some independent projects together

He says: "I like my life very much right now. Things are really coming together. I'm very content. For the first time in my life, I am making a substantial amount of money that let's me have the freedom to write and do all kinds of things. I feel that my work is expanding and improving all the time - both creatively and physically. I believe that my writing as gotten better. as has my acting"

Robert Gentry died in 2022

As I recall, a poster here reported that Gentry was HIV positive and had several bouts where he was looking quite ill.

But he made it to 82.

[quote]Bob was married for seven years and in 1981 separated from his wife who kept their California home. While at AW he lived in a cozy Tudor-Styled building on Manhattan's East side. He is seeing a woman who also writes.

Sounds sort of like Raymond Burr's wife and son who died in a car accident before he found fame in Hollywood.

The Beverlee McKinsey interview on Canadian TV was yanked from YT but has resurfaced at this link....

Glad the interview is available once again. Thanks for letting us know.

Whoever posed it to Rumble got the date wrong. Said it is a 1980 interview. It actually occurred shortly after she left Texas in November 1981. So, it would be December 1981 or January 1982.

Good catch R475. That was definitely her farewell TEXAS interview, she didn't think she'd be back on daytime any time soon at that time.

She's delightful

R472, I’m the one who posted here I’d seen Gentry walking up Amsterdam Avenue in the mid 1990s and he looked extremely gaunt. A year or so later I saw him in the same neighborhood and he looked much better. I had suspected the AIDS cocktail had pulled him back from the precipice as it had done for so many.

A friend who worked on AMC told me he had a big thing for Robert Duncan McNeil who played Charlie. He went so far as to ask McNeil (who was straight) out to dinner a few times but McNeill gently declined. Sad.

[quote]Robert KK (Sam)- I really disliked him as an actor. Could not get over my feeling that he was not a giving actor. Glad when he left, horrified when they brought him back.

Danny Markel was the best Sam. And they got rid of him. Assholes.

Agree about Danny Markel. Thomas Gibson would have been great too but was only there as a temp

Brian Green was also the wrong actor to play Sam. He was obviously too gay to play straight Sam convincingly. And quite a boring and bland actor IMO

Brian Lane Green was a terrible choice for Sam. He reminded me of Don Scardino who played Chris Chapin years earlier. Both were so damn pasty white and bland. Awful casting.

David Oliver as Perry Hutchins was adorable, they should have kept him longer instead of killing him off.

Danny Markel was the hairiest Sam. AW should have kept him.

They really botched his role on ATWT, too.

Is there a role that was not eventually botched by the AW writers and execs ? Pathetic Cecile, Criminal Iris, Rachel's love for Carl, Jake raping Marley, Jamie the Doctor, Steven Frame resurrection and death, John Hudson's affair with Felicia...to name a few...

R485, sad to say you've barely scratched the surface.

They ruined Donna at the end, too. (Before she surfaced on ATWT)

The recast was pretty bad. Thankfully temporary.

I hated what they did to MJ.

WHET Beverly Penberthy's Gay Nephew?

R485 The disastrous recast of Sally with Taylor Miller thus blowing up Catlin and Sally, sending him off with Brittany.

Speaking of which, Sharon Gabet as Raven and paired with Larkin Malloy’s Sky? Hell YES!

Sharon Gabet as Brittany and paired with Thomas Ian Griffith’s Catlin? Hell NO!

[quote] The disastrous recast of Sally with Taylor Miller

I wasn't watching much then and seeing Miller talk about her upcoming role on the Today Show was no incentive. By the time I was able to tune in regularly again she was dying.

Jake raping Marley kinda made sense. What didn't make sense was Victoria falling in love with him, Marley becoming obsessed with him, and Jake becoming some upstanding guy in the final years. Not to mention, Donna becoming such a big Jake fan.

I liked Jake with Paulina-Cali Timmins’ Paulina. My interest in AW plummeted when Anne Heche and Cali left.

AW did Cali dirty. They could have had both Cali and Judi. Judi should have been a long-lost Matthews or maybe Kit Halloway.

How about Judi as Nancy?

Oh, that's good R495

Cali Timmons had great chemistry with Tom Eplin. Judy Evan’s had none.

I can't take credit r496. I read it on another board.

Since Kathleen and Jake were both in the cast at the time, Judy could have played Jamie’s ex-girlfriend, MJ McKinnon. With Heche leaving and Jensen Buchanan not successful in a double role, that might have given him a love interest.

I felt bad for Judi when they first brought her on as Paulina. They kept putting her in these skin-tight Paulina outfits, which didn't work.

Remember that awful actress who played Paulina's friend?

Judi BALLOONED up to like 400 lbs.

[quote]Cali Timmons had great chemistry with Tom Eplin. Judy Evan’s had none.

Judi & Tom were fantastic together and should have been endgame.

Don't call me Cupcake!

[quote]Jake raping Marley kinda made sense.

Not to me. I used to argue about this with Donna B. Shallotpeel back in the day. I just couldn't see Jake as a rapist. Still can't.

[quote] Donna B. Shallotpeel

Lol

You mean that dumb Cuntmessadumbassatellall? That Donna B? Stupid cunt! Linda Dano has ALOT to say about that stupid bitch!

[quote] Linda Dano has ALOT to say about that stupid bitch!

Do tell r507.

How could raping Marley 'kinda make sense' ? I NEVER enjoyed rape storylines on soaps...they have zero entertainment value and destroy the integrity of a character simply for shock value. I recently 'saw' (fast-forwarded most of it) Jerry Grove rape Clarice Ewing. It made absolutely no sense and it is usually a cheap ploy to get rid of a character or to give a storyline to a character that has no purpose. Have you ever seen a 'rape' storyline on AW that you found compelling and enjoyed ?

I did enjoy Calli Timmins and Tom Eplin together and thought that Judi Evans and Eplin worked well together also, much more so than Eplin and Buchanan (snooze fest). It remains a mystery why they decided to pair Paulina with Joe the cop...now THAT was some boring s**** not sure the actress herself would have been crazy about that pairing. There were many leading men during the last few years of the show who added zero energy to the show : Joe, Cameron, Gary's recast, Tito...all so bland and uninteresting.

of all the rape storylines that I can think of, Margo's was the best(I feel weird saying that a rape was best lol

Roger and Holly’s rape story was the best in my opinion, because it fueled storylines for years, and because the rape was never forgotten .

I hated when soaps would “reform” rapists, like Jake; Luke on GH; Jack on DAYS….Roger was never allowed to forget that he raped a woman, and neither was the audience.

Such an odd practice to reform a rapist , when the audience is mostly women. And women (Donna Swajeski, Pat Falken Smith, Anne Howard Bailey in the three examples I listed above) were usually the ones writing the rapist’s redemption.

R512, I agree with you about Roger, but his rape of Rita was basically forgotten.

[quote]How could raping Marley 'kinda make sense' ?

Based on where the story was and where Jake was as a character at that point. Jake was becoming more and more desperate. Everything was falling apart around him, while he desperately wanted to rebuild his life. Marley was over it and wanted to be gone; she'd had enough. She couldn't have kids, the battle for Steven was over, and she was done with Jake and his schemes. If you believe that rape is a crime of power and control, then Jake raping Marley made perfect sense. If Marley wasn't going to love him, then this desperate, desperate man would make her love him.

It was all there in the scene.

Who Shot Jake was a great story, but Jake's rape of Marley was one of the few times when rape wasn't used as Emmy bait or a Sweeps Stunt. It was a natural progression of a complex story. Then, years later, they just undid the whole thing.

R511 I agree, Margo's rape was very well done. As was the Casey euthanasia story.

[quote] I agree with you about Roger, but his rape of Rita was basically forgotten.

Didn't he also rape Peggy? Yes, as well done as the 1989-and-after Roger and Holly story was, it completely erased the end of Roger's first stint, where he really went off the deep end. (And then fell off a high cliff!)

R474 Just be very very careful about Donna Bridges and that Beverlee interview. Be very careful.

It looks like We Love Soaps has been rebooted.

Not sure all the historical content is there but several of the lists are there, including the polls for Greatest Actor and Actress.

I don't really remember this particular list but it has some interesting stuff about GL and ATWT for sure. Other shows too but just mentioning the "Midwestern" ones.

The daytime community must really hate Colleen Zenk. No emmy nomination for her Y&R role. She made it very clear that she wants an Emmy bad and was submitting her name.

R519 I think the Y&R crew is notoriously closed to outsiders and I'm sure they stuck with their "own" folks, the same handful that get a nomination every year for two or three decades now.

Colleen Zenk brought me back to soaps when she joined the cast of Y&R...As much as I tried to get into it, I was bored out of my mind. I never was a Y&R fan but what a big bland affair populated with generic looking models/actors and others who should have retired a long time ago (that is you Eric Braeden). It looked to me as if they were still stuck in those 1994 storylines, same characters playing pretty much the same repetitive storylines.

The Y&R cast must hate Melody Thomas Snott. 1 nomination in 46 years. lol

I wasn't about to let certain hussies be nominated on my watch!

Go suck a hard candy you vinegary old witch!

The position that Y&R is somehow behind CZ not getting a nomination doesn't really fly nowadays, because actors can self-submit. That's to avoid the politics implied above.

As a Y&R viewer, I would say CZ's best shot would have been "Guest Performer," since the category is designed for an actor in a specific arc with a beginning and an end. That's exactly what Y&R wrote for her - two times now. .. But for the record, I found her performance very hammy and exaggerated. I guess that goes along with her character skulking around Genoa City in bad wigs, glasses, and a silly beret. I was glad to see Ian Ward (Ray Wise) and "Aunt Jordan" exit. Their shtick became groan-worthy.

And just related to the Guest Performer category and Y&R, I would never choose CZ over Linden Ashby's stellar performance as "Cameron Kirsten" in Sharon Newman's drug-addled visions. Glad to see him in the category.

I thought CZ did some great work in the beginning but it went off the rails after a while and never came back.

Jordan didn't have to be a psycho.

She kidnapped baby Eve; you Newmans can't prove it.

It didn't have to be Criminal Minds.

Yes, the actors can self submit, but to get a nomination, members have to vote for that person. CZ is not well liked in the industry. She has a reputation.

What turned Barbara Ryan into a bitch? Was it her rivalry with Shannon over Brian?

R529, I think it was just James. Barbara realized that even if you come from a "good" family and have nice friends, they will be useless to you if a total psycho is coming after you and your kid. That hardened her, and made her think people were silly for caring about trivial stuff like, oh, Barbara fucking their husbands.

I think Brian breaking up with her was part of it.

Trying an Instagram link about vintage GL... Maybe it was still TGL? Wish me luck. Apologies if it doesn't work.

R531, yes, I remember it as being triggered by being dumped by a man. Not by anything to do with James.

And wasn’t it because Tom dumped her?

When Barbara turned into a bitch one of the first things she did was make Margo and Tom believe that Tom slept with Barbara.

Cal Randolph called Barbara out on her victim hood, I recall; then Brian dumped her for Shannon.

Doug Marland wrote Barbara as a royal bitch and Zenk ran with it.

She talked about it here with one of the soap sites when she joined Y&R.

Then she married the shit who played Brian

CZP’s off screen life was more scandalous that Bab’s on screen life.

That whackjob Cunttessadumbatella aka Onionpeel is a crazy old dried up cunt. Drives everyone nuts with her weirdness. Linda Dano blocked the old bitch on Facebook. lololololol

She certainly has a lot to say. Everywhere she goes.

Who is that Cuntessa that you are talking about ? Anyone knows what happened to Linda Dano"s podcast...there it was and then suddenly nothing...no goodbyes

You get off this thread right now, r539, you tramp, or I will have my granddaughter in law, THE OAKDALE CHIEF OF POLICE, arrest you and take you away.

We are here to talk about Oakdale and these other Marvelous Midwestern Towns, not to litigate and referee decades old disputes between two elderly shut ins!

Honestly, the way you go on and on….you’re almost as bad as that hussy Joyce Colman.

Joyce Colman.....THAT was a real hussy!

Only my former daughter in law Rita was a bigger slut.

R541 That poster is seriously mentally ill. I am one of many here who would recommend that you block that poster and enjoy the silence.

Donna Bridges. Worst soap cunt, ever! A vile human.

I never thought of Donna as a bad person, r545. What bothered me was her insistence that "Jake the rapist" made sense. No! Just no! Jake would never have raped Marley.

Who was the all time slutiest character on each P&G soap?

Howdy, R547!

Another World-Cecile

As the World Turns-Emily

Guiding Light-Reva

Surely I deserve a mention?

Emily’s tally-she fucked James, Holden, Craig, Brock, Paul, Gavin, Royce, Evan, Diego, David, Tom, Chris, Hal and Casey. I think I am missing someone.

Barbara’s tally-Tom, Steven, James, Gunnar, Brian, Tonio, Duncan, Hal, Darryl, Gavin, Evan, John, Craig and Henry.

Lisa-Bob, Bruce, John Eldridge, Tom Eldridge, Michael, Gil, Wally, Don, Grant, Bennett, Brad, Whit, Earl, Eduardo, Martin, Ralph, John.

Hearing about people - people that none of us here know or care about - from other soap sites is bad enough, but calling them by their real name in a post here is a bad idea.

Unless, of course, you actually want these threads to stop, want the moderators to resume deleting them.

We give less than no fucks who said what elsewhere. Want to debate that shit? Then go to THAT site and do it.

Lisa Miller was the original

Reva really didn’t ho around that much.

I’m sad to say but Beth was 1997 on racked up quite the body count but JHFC ATWT had some legit hos! 🤣 Emily is the slut of P&G.

HB's funeral. Was this the last time we saw Trish?

Trish made an appearance at Josh & Reva’s 3rd wedding in 2002 for GL’s 50th TV anniversary. I think that was the last time Rebecca Hollen appeared before its cancellation.

Who was the biggest ho on Search for Tomorrow? Stephanie? Liza? Sunny? Wendy?

It was Jo. They called her Jo the Ho.

Andrea Whiting was a great old cunt

Rebecca Hollen as Trish was instant conflict for Ross and Blake, age-appropriate and had tons of history.

Holly's brother Andy was married to Trish!

There were familial connections all over the place.

GL never should have lost Trish, Rita, Amanda, Hope, or MAUREEN!

R560, I couldn’t agree with you more! And weren’t Trish and Vanessa originally best friends?

Yes, that too, R561

Trish was the first Lewis to arrive in town. As I recall, she was a sorority sister of Vanessa's. Also the ex-wife of Holly's brother Ken

She was the ex pf Holly’s other brother, Andy, the one that stole Sara McIntyre’s files-the storyline that led to Rita leaving. Andy was physically abusing Trish from what I recall.

You're right r564. I got the brothers confused. Andy Norris rather than Ken Norris.

Oh geez. That whacko Cuntnessdumbatella is driving everyine nuts again with her gibberish. She’s a moron. This time its about Zaslow. Dumb cunt.

ORD and BNSD are being mentioned on the current GH thread.

I moved to Port Charles a while ago.....and Shady Lane lives here too, damn it! I can't seem to escape her.

R564, Andy Norris probably abused Trish off-screen before she arrived in Springfield. Onscreen (at least when played by Ted Le Plat) Andy was dating Katie Parker and physically abusing her. He was only dating her to have access to Sara’s office keys.

I’m not sure if the character of Andy had been onscreen in an earlier version, but this version was creepy. He was blackmailing many of Springfield’s citizens through what he read in their therapy files.

Katie was always unlucky at love and definitely suffered from battered women’s syndrome while they were together.

Who did Trish open the restaurant with, was it Vanessa? I think the restaurant was called The Copper Lantern or the The Copper Kettle, something like that… later Tony’s disco Wired For Sound was connected to the white table cloth restaurant.

Almost time for a new thread. Don’t forget to link it!

Was Wired For Sound Tony's place? I thought it was Company. Maybe he owned both?

Marland created Wired for Sound; that was Tony and Floyd's, I believe.

Company was created by Pat Falken Smith (she also created the Brady Fish Market and Kelly's Diner).

how old are we that we remember soaps from 45 years ago like they were yesterday?

Cecile is dead.

I hated Ada but was sad when she and Constance Ford died.

So Donna is really Babes mother.

I was never that impressed with Constance Ford's acting...she seemed to always be looking at cue cards.

[quote]I was never that impressed with Constance Ford's acting...she seemed to always be looking at cue cards.

In her final few years, she was using the cue cards regularly.

But in the 70s and early 80s, she didn't need them. Or if she did, she was very good about hiding she looked toward the cue cards.

[quote]Almost time for a new thread. Don’t forget to link it!

Someone needs to create that thread first.

R573, for real. I remember some of the old stories much better than I can remember what I did yesterday.

As I recall, Holly's mother Barbara Norris owned a restaurant called the Copper Lantern.

The Andy Norris character had been off screen since 1975, but Marland brought him back in 1980, early in his time as HW, to be a villain. Andy by this point, Andy was the owner of the Copper Lantern.

Trish Lewis, as Andy's ex, may have somehow been involved with the Copper Lantern when she first got to town, but that didn't last too long.

Tony's club was Wired for Sound. I believe it was adjacent to or in the back of the Copper Lantern.

When Marland departed and Pat Falken Smith took over, briefly, as HW, she immediately abandoned Wired for Sound and instead had a house fall off a truck in a lot next to the Reardon Boarding House. The house then became Tony's new club, originally called Tony & Company. Later shortened to Company.

Don't worry, pussycat. The new thread will be live soon.

New thread!

Is there really a pic of Cass in a Speedo?

And a few episodes with him filling it out nicely.

Oh, I remember it well.

I used to work on a highly rated soap and there was this one super couple that took looking at cards to an art level.

When one knew the red light was on the other, they'd be reading cards and when it was time for the other to say a line, that person was back on-camera, not looking at cards, and delivered the line beautifully. Vice versa. Lather. rinse. repeat. It was like watching a ballet -- they both supported each other yet were just out for themselves at the same time.

R587, I just listened to an interview with Lenore Kasdorf. She politely opined that it was hard to connect with Chris Bernau when filming scenes as he was looking over her to the Teleprompter.

R587 is Y&R. Not a doubt in my mind- And they are a show that always had cue cards when other shows had long done away with them- I think I know who the actors are as well.

R587 what’s the harm in naming names?

R589 here- I think it's Eric Braeden and MTS. (And I am a huge Braeden fan) So no shade.

God, I'd say Jeff and Penny (which they're not) but then I realized God bless her, Rosemary Prinz is still alive!

Jo and Stu! (Kidding)

They'd never have done it, but imagine if it turned out Jo & Stu were friends with benefits.

Barbara Berger played a totally fucked up neurotic character on As The World Turns. I think she eventually ran into the street on one of her tirades and was run over and killed by a car.

Then she became a less volatile character on The Guiding Light as Holly's mother. Back then Holly was a dumb doe-eyed blonde babe.

Viewers were not very welcoming of the new non blonde non sex symbol at first.

Barbara came back to GL in 1995 after she'd left AW and she reprised Holly's mom, whose name was Barbara!

I love how they got the OG Barbara back but they had to de age Amanda and hire Toby Poser (fine in another role) when they could have gone to Kathleen Cullen.

But how F A T would Cullen have been by then? She was already seriously into BLUBS territory by the time she left. I would have loved her back, or even a recast, if they had not retconned the character. It was stupid.

Remember, new thread here.

One more blast of mothballs and vinegar!

BUH

BYE!