Yet more marvelous Midwestern shenanigans

Continued from prior thread

I'll be around......any guys just wanna hang out and do, uh, guy stuff.....I'll be in the trees behind Tops. Looking for one.

Daddy's getting ready for yet ANOTHER trip to Palm Springs!

I thought a little royalty might class up this thread.

R3 Hiya Iris!

How many husbands did Ada go through?

Which Hudson was best in the sack?

Nick, R7.

John Hudson has serious sizemeat. He fucked Sharly silly!

I always wanted to rim Michsel Hudson, though. I bet he’d giggle like a girl.

Michael annoyed me. He was always disapproving of Donna’s antics. You married the bitch, asshole; you knew she wasn’t Pollyanna!

When the show paired him with Stacey Winthrop they were a vortex of dullness.

I started paying attention to AW on Memorial Day, 1986. My mom had it on and Vicky and Marley were having some sort of party. I came in on a scene where Vicky and Nancy got into a brief cat fight because of Jake and Vicky cheating on Marley. I guess it was a wedding shower for Marley

I was weirded out as Vicky had her hair pulled back tight and looked like a literal egghead. And Nancy had a long face so they looked surreal. The full episode is included.

R8 That Mark Mortimer certainly got my juices flowing!

I liked Kevin McClatchy as Nick, but then again I liked him a lot on GL too. That was one that both GL and AW let go....he was very talented.

In R12’s posting Schnetzer’s bare feets git MY juices flowing.

Ellen Wheeler did look a bit like a Conehead, didn't she?

I preferred original Nick (Justin Chambers, CK model and future Dr. Alex Karev)

When they brought in Mark Mortimer, I was like holy fuck. He was a gorgeous, gorgeous man. Kevin McClatchy was an FOJ and resembled Kale Brown in a way, but Mark Mortimer got those gears grinding.

I wonder how far all these Midwestern towns were from one another.

[quote]When they brought in Mark Mortimer, I was like holy fuck. He was a gorgeous, gorgeous man

And a terrible, terrible actor.

[quote]And a terrible, terrible actor.

I never watched soap operas for the acting. There were a few good ones, despite everything being stacked against a good performance, but they were rare. If the "actor" can convince me they're the character, then their job is done. If they're pretty - all the better.

Kevin McClatchy still looks good these days. I think he's a professor now.

He was in a gay short film that was wonderful.

It’s FINALLY summer in Bay City.

Excuse me while I take a dip in Iris’s (above-ground) pool.

There's a cognac called Prince Hubert de Poulignac.

Stop splashing, Elena!

R19, once upon a time it was intimated that Oakdale, Springfield, and Monticello were located near one another. I always thought Bay City had to be relatively close too. Not sure about Henderson. They all seemed pretty far from Houston.

It’s almost summer. Will Andy Dixon be life guarding at the country club again this year?

If the Bauer barbecue is too dull, why not try the Hughes’s Fourth of July party on the patio?

On the Illinois—Michigan border

Kevin McClatchy played a virulent racist on GL.

The Bauer barbecue will not be dull this year. Reva‘s breaking out the red dress and she’s promising to rival the fountain scene.

Would you all like a song?

*clears throat*

[quote] If the Bauer barbecue is too dull, why not try the Hughes’s Fourth of July party on the patio?

Have YOU ever tried to eat a hot dog boiled in vinegar?

Vinegary Nancy spends the entire party critiquing that tramp Kim and her hostessing skills.

I love Kim!

Hi... God. It's uh... me...

R27, tsk tsk… Andy worked at the Oakdale Yacht Club

Did they really have hunky young Douglass in love with grandma Kim? Seriously?

Why not? Kelly Nelson fell for me!

Noler, Mr. McCord told you and Gracie to stay out of that secret room.

India is now the Prime Minister of Andorra? Cool!

All of Iris's swanky New York friends (who fly to Bay City to hang out with her instead of summering in the Hamptons or Newport for some strange reason) will be entertained by Donna and Cecile doing their version of Cole Porter's Friendship. There won't be a dry eye at the overground pool.

Iris is quite concerned about the upcoming hurricane season and fears her balcony hydrangeas in Boca will bear the brunt.

Wasn't the pool originally installed to give Dennis a safe exercise program for his heart condition? For all I know Dr Russ Matthews suggested it. Or maybe it was some other temporary resident of Bay City doctor.

I don't remember how Dennis's heart issues were resolved, unless one counts his sexual relationship with Countess Elena, still played by Pickles. She'd opened an art gallery and had hired the "geeky Dennis with glasses" for a summer job. I love that actress. Maeve Maguire ticked all the right boxes but was more bland and fragile.

Shortly after, the handsome new Dennis arrived. Jim Poyner I think.

I'll look him up. I remember him as short. Recast again, can't remember who - oh yeah the actor who played gay on AMC.

Must be sentimental youth speaking but Poyner was my favorite Dennis.

Me again...

My brief research rabbit hole led me back to The Another World Homepage. Every soap needs a site like that one.

Cool quote from Mike Hammett, the original Dennis. I'm guessing many of you have already seen it. I know I have but so long ago I'd forgotten.

I was delighted to have Dennis Carrington back on screen. I always liked his character.

Chris Bruno was certainly lovely to look at. But he was not Dennis Carrington Wheeler.

And Dennis' friendship with Jamie was largely ignored.

Russell Todd was never really Jamie for me, though he was also nice eye candy.

I’ve told this story before but so be it…it fits this thread.

I was around 12 and auditioning for stuff. I screentested for ATWT as Lisa’s doomed kid Chuckie Shea-Fulton later said on The David Susskind Show he was known on the set as “Upchuckie.” They went with an adorable towhead blond child who was gone within months. I also had an audition for AW. I went to the ad agency which is where the auditions for the P&G soaps were usually held. Benton & Bowles, maybe? I walked into a room and was greeted with a warm handshake by Constance Ford. I had watched the show with my mom so I knew what she looked like. I remember she wore a man’s button down shirt. I remember her saying “Hiya” exactly like Ada would say to other characters on TV. The rest is a blur. I do remember walking out of that room with the very nice feeling that Ford had treated me like a fellow actor, not a kid. I thought maybe I got the job. I was told it was for a quickie replacement. The next day my mom told me she got a call from my agent-the agent for the kid playing Dennis was playing hardball in contract negotiations and so they were using that popular tactic of calling in actors to replace him. Oh well. But that memory of Constance Ford looking me dead in the eye and saying “Hiya” is a pretty nice souvenir.

R46 Wow! That's amazing.

If I remember correctly, Chris Bruno had tested for the role of Sam originally (they went with Danny Markel). They liked him so they brought him on as Dennis. He was too young to be Dennis.

So cool r46!

[quote] Constance Ford. I had watched the show with my mom so I knew what she looked like. I remember she wore a man’s button down shirt.

My friend's Mom, actually a family friend, named Peggy was a highly successful and respected local real estate agent. She looked and dressed like Ada. Had the same no nonsense attitude but was warm as well. AW was immensely popular then and people joked her success was owed to being like Ada.

Lots of hot men on AW (including a few of the Jamies and, dare I say it, even Mac) but I think two of my favorites were Tom Eplin and Richard Burgi. Both captured the hot bad boy thing quite well.

Espy was my masturbation episodes.

R46, I was recently at the Paley Center and was watching the episode of ATWT surrounding Chuckie's paternity and Claire finding out and falling off the wagon. They shouldn't have killed off that character. Lisa could have used another son.

It’s odd that they killed Chuckie off, I don’t think it really fueled any story-he died and that was the extent of it .

r30 Pack up all your cares and woes, Therèse.

R5, I swear I remember her as a kid saying that line.

Lemay wrote in 8 Years that she stole the scene with that one line; he was right.

R46 did you ever get any roles? Won’t ask which in respect to your privacy.

R56, no principal roles on the soaps but a lot of commercials and theater work (one play on Broadway and several regional theater productions). I did a lot of bg work as a Pine Valley HS student on AMC in the early 1980s and a few days on ATWT as an Oakdale High student. I remember Christian LeBlanc comparing himself to Michael E. Knight and me and a fellow bg friend looked away and rolled our eyes.

I do remember one day on GL doing bg in Central Park when Beth was doing a clown routine. It was a really cold day out there and a little bg girl was upset because it was so cold and she had to stand outside for a long time. That sucked. I vaguely remember Grant Aleksander being there, too. His pendulous dong was no doubt covered by underwear, long johns and jeans that day, sorry.

Heavy duty Carhartt pants, no doubt. That pendulousness needed protection and support!!

Thanks R46. Fascinating to learn how many moving pieces there are (or were) to an episode.

Pine Valley HS…

Did you ever make it to Pine Manor?

That koo koo Tim Will who always called Anna Stuart Anna Banana is a nut. He auditioned for roles and never got them.

Remember the name Edward Trach, the executive in charge of production for all the P&G shows? He must have seen some things.

Ariana, The Early Years

She’s posted some cool clips from her time in Oakdale and Bay City.

Was on the AW website (which is very good and very complete) and happened to see this from L. Virginia Browne (not sure if she's still around or not). L. Virginia Browne was headwriter of AW from 11/80 to 11/82.

"I was replaced by Bob Soderberg in 11/82. Even though I had already left to do Guiding Light with Doug Marland in late 81 or early 82 (can't recall) AW continued to use my story lines & bible and so continued my headwriting credit until 11/82.

Christopher Schemering wrote a book called the "Soap Opera Encyclopedia" and, in it, he says that I took over Guiding Light and it then went into a "slump." I was pretty darned surprised as, within four months of becoming head writer, I had raised the ratings by two full points and our position from 8th to 3rd. In fact, the folks at P&G filled my office with flowers to congratulate me. Ken Fitts (a P&G exec) said he hoped we'd be working together for years. The VERY NEXT DAY, Allen Potter, the executive producer, announced he was leaving to be replaced by Gail Kobe and she fired me -- the very next day after receiving all those flowers and wishes for years and years of working together. And then they continued to use my bible for 9 more months and kept my name on the credits as headwriter for that long.

That story, i.e. the flowers and the firing the next day, has become part of soap folklore. I've even had individuals tell it to me but ascribe it to various different writers. I sent Chris a note (along with copies of the network ratings sheets) and he wrote back and apologized, saying he would update and correct the info in his revised edition. Sadly, Chris then suddenly passed away and never did make the revision, so that mis-information stands in what is considered by many to be a very reliable book.

As for AW, I was supposed to write Texas and was shifted, at the very last minute, to AW, which I had never once seen before being handed the assignment. I spent a week-end in a NYC hotel watching old tapes (those old, huge Beta tapes, I think), boxes of them, to catch up. And, as I posed your question to my former assistant head writer Linda Hamner (with whom I still am friends and still write with from time to time), she reminded me of one story. I guess AW must have gotten a great deal on a crate of baby-crap colored brown mugs. And, as a result, they installed them in EVERY kitchen. Ada had them; so did Mac and Rachel. When Jamie married Cecile, they had them. Even Joey and Sandy had them in their decidedly down-scale apt. You could never do a "cup-to-cup" scene cut (made famous by Gloria Monty of GH) because everyone had the very same cups. Years later I tuned in and there they were, those same cursed mugs. I swear, they must have bought a thousand.

I've kept up with some of the folks from AW. Warren Burton (Jason) has carved out a great career doing voices for video games. Richard Bekins (Jamie) is much in demand on Broadway (He was in "Love, Valor, Compassion" the year it won the Tony) and regional theater as well as regular and frequent performances in the "Law and Order" shows. I ran into Chris Rich a few weeks ago at the mall and met his new wife and twin babies, as well as his daughter with Nancy Frangione (the second Cecile). He's doing well on "Reba," as you probably know. James Horan (Denny) lives nearby and produces local theater as well as acts in them. For a bit of trivia, in the film "Gods and Generals," Richard Bekins, James Horan and Warren Burton all had roles.

And, again, great work on your site. I know the Soap Net cable network is running AW (or will be soon) but decided to start in 1987 which I think is doing the show a great disservice as it will miss all the wonderful shows written by Harding LeMay, whom I believe was the show's best writer ever.

Take care, Virginia."

[quote]L. Virginia Browne was headwriter of AW from 11/80 to 11/82.

L Virginia was headwriter until November 1981, Then playwright Corine Jacker took over as HW for a year -- November 1981 to November1982.

Harding Lemay wanted to break up Pat and John Randolph's marriage in 1975.

He originally planned to do that by having Pat keep the secret that their son Michael was gay. However, P&G and/or NBC nixed that idea.

So, Lemay changed the plot and had Pat keep the secret that their daughter Marianne had had an abortion. The keeping of that secret is what led to the end of Pat and John's marriage and John eventually marrying Olive Gordon.

The person who got Marianne pregnant was a college student named Chris Pierson, who was played by a young Stephen Yates. After the six-month gig as Chris Pierson was over, Yates moved to GL to play good guy Ben McFarren for six years. After he left GL, he returned to AW, this time playing Jamie Frame for two years.

R64 I took what I posted at R63 directly from this page at the AW website - it was confusingly written.

Was Jacker the one who wrote the Pie Lady?

r63/r66 Thanks for posting that link.

The header for her entry, written by the AW HomePage site owners, has the correct information:

[quote]Virginia Browne (Headwriter, 1980-1981), September 2005

But the body of the text has incorrect information, which means that Browne who got the dates wrong in her letter .

[quote]With a period where Corrine Jacker filled in as temporary writer during the writer s strike, using Browne s bible], L. Virginia Browne was headwriter from 11/80 to 11/82. I was replaced by Bob Soderberg in 11/82. Even though I had already left to do Guiding Light with Doug Marland in late 81 or early 82 (can't recall) AW continued to use my story lines & bible and so continued my headwriting credit until 11/82.

Show may very well have used some of Browne's story projects and given her some sort of credit onscreen. Corine Jacker was listed onscreen as HW.

[quote]With a period where Corrine Jacker filled in as temporary writer during the writer s strike, using Browne s bible],

Ahh, interesting. There was a 3 month writers strike in 1981. The is the first time I've ever heard that Corine Jacker was the scab who HW the show during the 1981 strike. Apparently, she did a good enough job, they brought her back as HW when the strike was over.

Never knew that before.

So odd that P&G would hire L Virginia Browne for Guiding Light. Another World collapsed in the ratings during her tenure -granted, this was at the peak of Luke and Laura, but Guiding Light held its own against GH during this time, unlike Another World.

And her writing was not exactly critically acclaimed, either. Then again, her scripts were a masterpiece when compared to Corinne Jacker.

[quote]And her writing was not exactly critically acclaimed, either. Then again, her scripts were a masterpiece when compared to Corinne Jacker.

Browne left the show in decent shape with the return of Steve Frame and relaunching the Steve-Alice-Rachel triangle, adding Mac to the mix. She had Cecile marry Jamie and later start an affair with Sandy Cory.

But yes, Brown was infinitely better than Corine Jacker

And yes to r67, Jacker introduced the character of Henrietta Morgan who was baking pecan pies.

GL was seen as a hipper show. GL was also left with a better foundation. Plus, GH was very bad in many aspects. GL benefited from channel switching because it was good.

What was the Pie Lady story?

R68 Thanks for the clarification.

I can totally understand why AW hired Corinne Jacker, hoping that lightning would strike twice by hiring someone outside of the soap world. They paired her with Robert Cenedella, but I guess he wasn't enough to help her navigate writing a soap opera full-time.

I do wonder if PG ever approached Marland about writing AW, since he had written the show with Lemay, especially right after he left GH. Which PG show was in worse shape in the 80-82 timeframe? AW, GL, or ATWT?

AW was in the worst shape.

GL was in great shape, the Dobsons had modernized it, and you can see why P&G wanted to move them to stodgy ATWT-they wanted them to do to Oakdale what they did to Springfield.

80-82 saw GL in the middle of one of its golden eras.

I can’t see Doug Marland and Paul Rauch working well together on AW in the early 80s.

Who killed Carolyn Crawford? I was home from school in the summer of 1992 but had to go back and the last episode I saw was Darryl pursuing blonde a terrified Frannie on a ski gondola.

Didn’t that story run extra long as Marland was hospitalized for a period in 1992 before dying in early 1993?

I don't think Marland's gay sensibilities and Rauch's quasi-soft porn 70s sensibilities would have mixed at all.

According to Soap Central:

"Carolyn was killed by George Jessup. Murder was ordered by Anthony Harper and Gavin Krueger."

The plan had been to make Darryl the killer, but somewhere about 2/3rds of the way through either Marland, P&G or CBS decided to change their mind as they didn't want to ruin a popular character.

Unfortunately, the audience was bored shitless by the end and it kinda ruined interest in his character anyway. Plus there were rumors that Smith was a pain in the ass and didn't get along with several costars, but it wasn't much longer after that when both Smith and Mary Ellen Stuart were off canvas.

Smith?

Rex Smith (Darryl)

Henrietta was played by Michele Shay who I gather was a great theater actress. I remember her work on AW, however, as being embarrassingly theatrical. She spoke reeeeaaaaslllly slowly, dragging out every word. She played her like a space alien who was just getting used to the language.

Henrietta Morgan was the wife of police officer Bob Morgan.

When AW introduced Henrietta, she was trying to start a business selling pecan pies and other pies.

For a while there, AW mentioned pecan pies so often, I found myself buying a pecan pie on several occasions in the grocery story.

In addition to being very slow moving, the Carolyn Crawford story added a bunch of minor characters who were suspects-in addition to the three listed in r81, there was Dana, Darryl and Carolyn’s surrogate, and her husband; Vicki Harper, Anthony Harper’s wife, who looked like Carolyn; Arthur Claiborne, Carolyn’s attorney; etc.

All of these characters were added to a very bloated cast, a year after ATWT had done another mob story (Brock Lombard).

Gavin Kruger had been talked about for months, the show was setting him up to be a new villain, but he was bland and it went nowhere.

Mary Ellen Stuart was also lacking in charisma, and she couldn’t anchor this story as a result.

I think that was also a problem at GL during this time-many stars lacked something and couldn’t anchor a story like Rusty, Rose (who ironically went on to have a very successful career), Samantha, Beth Chamberlin (though she had charisma out of ass when she returned in the late 90s.

Did they ever explain why Darryl changed his name from Harry to the infinitely dorkier Darryl?

Yeah, the 2nd Pam Long regime was very bad at writing for, casting, whatever.....compelling new characters. Sonni was pretty much it.

Beth C had a tremendous amount of expectations aimed toward her the first time around as everyone wanted her to be Judi Evans II. I think later on she was able to make Beth more her own. Of course some of the later Beth stories were truly terrible but I never had an issue with Beth C.

[quote]AW was in the worst shape.

Harry Must Die and the fallout from that story, Rachel sleeping with and getting pregnant by Mitch and the Mitch "murder" was good, but they couldn't sustain it.

I think the biggest mistake was bringing Steve Frame back from the dead and trying to redo that triangle. The Hathaway family didn't seem to catch on. I think this was also during the time when someone gave Rachel that awful haircut that aged her 20 years.

[quote]The Hathaway family

Halloway family

I forgot about Merideth and Blake (first one). Just blah actresses. I think they just got lucky with Michelle Forbes. She seemed ehhh at first. Can you imagine if they’d cast a subpar or average actress against Kim? The story would’ve flopped.

Pam was very smart bringing back Roger/Holly and making Blake their daughter, then recasting. Was Betty Rhea out for a year or two? Starting in 89 the casting for Guiding Light really got superb. We actually lucked into Roger coming back because they had originally asked him to come back as Alan and he said no, but he would come back as Roger. So I guess it wasn’t Pam‘s idea.

Beth Chamberlin was ok at first, but she needed a new haircut and stylist. Her hair needed to be blonder. She was more compelling in the later half of her first run. Her reading Roger for filth at her wedding to Phillip was the Beth we needed. She delivered. I’m not sure why they didn’t have Beth confront Roger more. They had chemistry and Beth WAS smack in between Alex and Mindy. It is a shame her stories largely sucked and they de-Beth’d her upon her return. Beth Chamberlin really shone then. She was much more beautiful, a very good actress, and had charisma.

[quote]Halloway family

Thanks Nancy

Getting rid of the Halloways was a good thing. I didn't mind First Aid Kit though.

I liked Kit and adored Miranda.

Rest of them did little for me.

Wish both Kit and Miranda had stayed longer.

In 1987, Soap Opera Digest did one of their regularly featured show critiques and this time it was AW. They gave a short summary of what had been right and wrong with the show in the present and the past. They mentioned a new family that was written in and discontinued within three weeks, maybe early 80s. The last name was Wylie.

Okay, Miranda as well. She had unrealized potential.

But the rest of them ate the show. I'd spent time in Europe and when I returned it didn't feel like AW anymore. I want to say they were part of the 90 minute expansion but I'm not sure.

According to the Another World homepage, there was a hristine Wylie character on for about 6 months in 1982. She dated Jamie Frame.

Her mother Patricia Wylie was on for about 2 months during that time too.

There's also a seemingly unrelated minor character named Douglas Wylie who was an assistant at an art gallery for about two years, 1977-79.

Wasn't Miranda suppused to be the new Iris?

A Rachel rival for sure.

Yes, with Iris headed off to Texas, Miranda Bishop was set up to become the show's new Iris. They even had Miranda living in Iris' house.

Bev left AW because it was a new show or quit?

Bev originally was planning to leave Another World when her contract was up. P&G threw a lot of money at her (along with the promise of shorter hours) to go to Texas.

and it started as... TEXAS starring BEVERLEE MCKINSEY

I love you Donna…

So, did PG keep the $ flowing for Bev at GL?

Didn’t she join GL for health insurance, her husband was dying?

Beth Chamberlain had a far deeper speaking voice than Judi Evans and it took me a long time to get used to that.

According to the Texas book, Beverlee got a sweet deal because Rauch and the Corringtons wrote her into the show (Texas) without negotiating first. They came to her after the fact, and she had them over a barrel and worked out a great deal for herself with star billing. Good for her. Apparently, she was planning to leave Another World at the end of her current contract.

Beverlee was an intelligent lady and read her contracts. It seems that she was quite professional. I heard that she and Michael Zaslow had some issues dating back to "Love is a Many Splendored Thing," but they managed to work together on "GL" despite whatever those past problems were.

I wish there were tape available of her playing Emma Ordway.

Idk go back and watch some of Judi’s scenes. She could have a low sultry voice.

They should have made Beth C’s hair shorter and more blond.

Chris Robinson is DEAD to me!

Chris Robinson's story is kinda sad. He had 9 kids but I'm not sure ANY of them were talking to him at the time he died.

Didn’t he go broke trying to speculate on Beanie Babies?

R113 Yes.

Julianne talking about Kathryn Hays......❤️ 😭 ❤️

Sounds like AW botched its 20th anniversary. They got Jacqui Courtney back as Alice, they poached Taylor Miller … and they did nothing with them. Courtney said Alice was now relegated to saying, “You look tired, you should go to bed.”

Wasn’t AW negotiating to get Beverlee back in time for the anniversary ,but she went to Guiding Light , so they pivoted to bringing Jacqui Courtney back?

They never should have recast Sally with Taylor Miller. They should have tried to convince Mary Page Keller to at least stay until Thomas Ian Griffith’s contract ended and had Catlin and Sally leave together.

AW also botched up Sharon Gabet’s character, Brittany, by pulling a huge bait and switch. Brittany was supposed to be a deaf mute and then she became a man hungry vamp who spoke and heard everything - how did they even explain that? Gabet was unhappy and left when she was able

AW didn't do anything that I can remember for its 20th, but they marked the 25th on air in 1989.

Beverlee was already back at GL for several years when they did the 25th anniversary, so her participation was never an option. I believe they already had Carmen Duncan in as Iris by then.

Douglass Watson died just before the anniversary, I believe? Or right after? Aunt Liz will know specific dates better than I.

[quote] Didn’t she join GL for health insurance, her husband was dying?

That seems to be as good an explanation as any. In that 1982 Canadian interview she was done with daytime and wanted to do other things. But her longtime partner/husband was dying and she went back to daytime on GL. He died in her first year at GL (her scenes were played by Lydia Bruce for a few weeks.)

AW observed its 20th anniversary in May 1984 by bringing Jacqueline Courtney back as Alice and then giving her nothing to do. Reportedly, the show had been trying to lure Beverlee back, but then she went to GL in February 1984, so they pivoted to Jacqueline who had been fired from OLTL when Paul Rauch joined as a producer in August 1983. (Reportedly, Rauch demanded she be fired before he would start the job).

Taylor Miller didn't come onto AW as Sally until July 1985, about a month after Mary Page Keller departed. By the time she got there, Jacqueline Courtney had already left again.

For the 25th anniversary in 1989, AW did the Bravo 25th anniversary party, bringing back past cast members for a visit. Yes, Douglas Watson died about a week before they were to film the 25th anniversary shows. They were mysterious about his absence from the Bravo party, but then about three weeks later killed Mac off and did his funeral, again bringing back past cast members.

Carmen Duncan joined the show as Iris in October 1988, so she was already there when they did the Bravo 25th anniversary party.

Incidentally, it was Cecile (Susan Keith) who first pitched Cory Publishing doing a magazine called Bravo. That was in summer 1980. I got a chuckle out of them retconning show history to make Bravo to be 25 years old in 1989. But it was a good excuse for the show's 25th anniversary party.

R121 Thank you for the specifics, Liz! I knew your eavesdropping would come in handy!

BRAVA

If Beverlee came back to AW in 1984, I could see them phasing out Donna or making her into more of a heroine. Donna was very much like Iris in those days.

Yikes! Thanks for catching that Nancy. And you're not even a P&G star!

Brava was SORASed. I thought it was Janice who came up with Brava. What kind of magazine was Brava, anyway? Was it like Vanity Fair?

Yes, apparently Janice did pitch the idea of Brava when she got a job at Cory Publishing. That allowed her to interact with Mac regularly and eventually lure him into marriage.

Soon after, Cecile (Susan Keith) took over as editor of Brava. During this time period, Cecile was working with Pat Randolph and routinely taunting Pat about her age and being single since the divorce from John. This taunting contributed to Pat's drinking problem as well as Phillip Lyons (Robert Gentry) defending Pat against Cecile.

Brava was discussed as being a woman's aspirational magazine aimed at upscale women and upscale wannabes.

Iris was a socialite when played by Beverlee McKinsey. When Iris returned to Bay City in the form of Carmen Duncan, she was a corporate executive -- something Bev's Iris would never have done.

Duncan's Iris started a companion magazine to Brava called Sophisticate.

Wasn't Cecile also spiking Pat's drinks with vodka?

[quote]Wasn't Cecile also spiking Pat's drinks with vodka?

I'm sure that was just a misunderstanding. Like, how she "supposedly" got Jamie hooked on drugs.

I really liked Chris Robinson as Jack Hamilton on B&B. Stephanie definitely made the wrong choice there.

McKinsey truly was a cunt! Poor Vivian. And the GL actors who lost income because Bev chose to be a cunt.

Jack Hamilton enjoyed motorboarding with Sally Spectra.

I loved how these shows took place in small towns in the beginning but later were supposed to be these huge cities by the 80s The view of Oakdale from Lucinda’s office in Walsh Towers looked more impressive than Manhattan. Yet just down the road was rural Luther’s Corners.

Same with Springfield, which was all rustic looking with the lighthouse and then suddenly had huge towers and skyscrapers.

AMC was the worst offender. This picturesque, Peyton Place-ish little town in Pennsylvania had a fucking skyline by 2000.

Yes. AMC was my second thought when reading r134's post. My first was of AW in the 1980s when Steve Frame returns and comments about how Bay City has grown.

And early in Marland’s reign on ATWT, Lisa and Frannie are visiting the soon to be opened Caroline’s and Lisa comments on how Oakdale has really changed.

Springfield got big but then shrunk down again.

Why, it reminded me of a little town in New Jersey.......

Why did Oakdale have a yacht club? Where were these yachts cruising?

This is pretty much what I pictured Oakdale being like while Lisa was causing havoc.

As a very young child I remember getting ATWT confused with reruns of Father Knows Best.

If I had noticed that Father Knows Best took place in a town called Springfield I might have confused it with The Guiding Light.

While I understand that the shows were just keeping up with the times, I think they lost something special when the model became Dallas/Dynasty instead of Peyton Place.

I didn't know Beverlee hosted the Daytime Emmys....or maybe I did but I forgot it.

From the people listed as nominees, that would have been the 1980 Daytime Emmy awards.

Wikipedia has a write up of the 1980 awards and mentions Susan Seaforth Hayes and Ed McMahon as hosts. Does not mention Bev.

So many lesbians in Supporting Actress that year!

Did anyone watch GL when Murray Bartlett was on? He played Cyrus Foley from 2006-cancellation. Didn’t he end up getting thrown off a cliff by Phillip? And did anyone think he’d hit the big time ( he won a Primetime Emmy)? I’m watching him on Nine Perfect Strangers now so I thought I’d post about him.

"While I understand that the shows were just keeping up with the times, I think they lost something special when the model became Dallas/Dynasty instead of Peyton Place."

I think Marland's ATWT did the best job of keeping a foot in both camps, slowly integrating the Snyder family while simultaneously turning up the glamour for beloved female vets. How I loved to watch Kim, Lisa, Barbara, and Lucinda swan around in their furs and jewels!

Maybe r148. To me it felt like a device, an escape hatch. Other soap writers do it. One day those two realities are extreme ends of the same community. Then they are not the same community. Then they are even farther apart. Then someone can walk bnetween the two.

Not complaining. Just saying Marland wasn't above using soapland clichés. We would not be faithful viewers if we didn't expect them.

Lemay was the better writer.

R147 It was Cyrus Foley's foster brother, Grady Foley, who got pushed off a cliff to his death by Phillip.

As for Murray Bartlett's acting, I don't think he really got much notice until he did the HBO series "Looking" in 2014, In between GL and that series, I happened to see him in a gay indie film called "August" (2011) and saw quite a bit of potential ;-).

R150 Ahh thank you. I’ve seen him in a few things before Guiding Light like Sex And The City, which has had quite a few GL stars on it. Murray didn’t get the notice his GL colleague Tom Pelphry received, but Murray has more Primetime Emmy noms and an actual Primetime Emmy.

Speaking of SATC, it was fun to see Scott Bryce (in the opening scene of episode 1), James Goodwin, and John Bolger in their appearances.

Poor Goodwin being known as the guy with a small dick.

Murray was front and center in the Last Of Us episode many critics say is one of the best TV episodes of all time. It earned him an Emmy win.

Murray was pleasant on GL but nothing that would really make you think he had it in him to deliver some of his later award winning performances.

He was somewhat effectively paired with Marj Dusay's Alexandra as her younger escort - I believe they were married for a short time, and then Cyrus got involved with Harley before Beth Ehlers left the show.

At the end I think the writers were just plugging Cyrus in anywhere and everywhere.

This was a hot scene, though - the fun starts after 5:00......

They obviously made "Remy" (LSV) wear another pair of briefs under those green boxers, so his BBC wouldn't be flopping around or visible when wet. boo hiss

[quote]They obviously made "Remy" (LSV) wear another pair of briefs under those green boxers, so his BBC wouldn't be flopping around or visible when wet. boo hiss

Maybe if they let his BBC fly free, the show would still be on the air today.

They should have had Remy's big BBC slam Cyrus....it would have been far more entertaining......

Oh, if only I'd thought to protest in Cincinnati: "P&G, Show Us the BBC!"

Those who go way back- what were the reactions to the P&G makeovers of the opening credits for all the shows in 1981?

I got my tambourine and booty shorts and shook what the good lord gave me to our new theme!

Ah, the divine disco version of GL theme songs!

I liked AW’s 1981 credits.

I always found the music and the announcement in ATWT’s 1981 credits to be a little creepy.

The GL disco theme was appropriate for the show at the time, but I much prefer the revised version from 1983.

That Henry Chamberlain sure knew how to pleasure Kelly Nelson!

Most of the updates were crap except for GL which really needed one. But I agree with r162 thathe '83 version was one of its best.

It's cheesy as hell, and didn't happen until 1987, but I've always had a soft spot for "You Take Me Away to Another World."

My favorite soap openings are Guiding Light’s 1991 opening with the lighthouse; Another World with “You Take Me Away to Another World;” and the 1990-95 ALL My Children opening, with the photos of the cast flying onscreen.

I loved all of GL's openings from the Ritournelle one to the lighthouse one that started circa 1990/1991.

Well, I should say I liked the 1983-1985ish version of the GL opening with the dark background and gold lettering. When they went to a faster arrangement of that song.....the blue sky, aerobics bouncy version, I looooathed that version.

[quote]Those who go way back- what were the reactions to the P&G makeovers of the opening credits for all the shows in 1981?

AW should have never moved away from the interlocking rings and their classic theme. One thing I've always respected about Days is they never got away from the hourglass and Mac Carey's intro.

R88, frannie was involved with Larry McDermott around this time and the show had to get away from "Larry" and "Harry" references.

It would sound comedic.

Kim: "Bob, how can Frannie choose between Harry and Larry?"

I get that r168, but why “Darryl?” The character was supposed to be sexy. Darryl is not a sexy name; that’s the name of a fat, bald, unemployed forklift driver.

Another World in the 1970s opening swept me in to well, another world.

All time favorite

I also liked GL disco, Savannah (prime time), GL late 85 early 86 before twangy version.

Y&R and disco Edge of Night

It’s THE Guiding Light.

R172 Don't you start, kiddo.

The disco ATWT theme I loved because the show was so great back then.

The theme change in the early 90s timed with Marland's passing so I never cared for it.

GH's late 70s and 80s theme is a classic b/c the show was so great; especially 1978 - 1983.

The original Texas theme seemed to “borrow a tad too much of “I Can See Clearly Now.” I liked the second i e which was also used as the jingle for an insurance company.

I loved “The World Turns On and On”, the ATWT theme from 1981-93 but I can see people not liking it originally after 25 years of the same theme song. The original theme was good. I can’t say I liked anything after 1993 though. “Jelinda’s Theme” was too weak for me but the themes they used in later years were generic and unmemorable. Although there was that sepia-toned opening that ran for a short while on later years with a tune that recalled “The World Turns On and On” somewhat.

Trent Dawson lived in Morningside Heights in Manhattan during the time I was living there. ( As did Rosa the cook.) I was behind him in line at Chipotle once and so I struck up a conversation. He wasn’t exactly hiding as he was wearing an As the World Turns t-shirt. He was very friendly. He was with a young woman who had also been on the show as a stalker of Holden. This was late 2008. I saw him around several times over the next few years.

[quote] “The World Turns On and On”, the ATWT theme from 1981-93

I think that was the one we called PIGS IN SPACE

R177 I’m shocked Trent married a woman.

at some point almost every PG show was as bad as dialogue and plot in porn. I'm trying to think of the most egregious examples. any takers? anything involving a cave in bad weather is a good start.

R180, what years are you referring to?

Can anybody help me here? Back in the late 70s, my siblings and I would always catch the end of “Guiding Light” and there was a blind girl on it named Eve, I think. But one day we caught a soap on a different channel and it was much racier than GL and it had a couple in bed and the had a scene I’ll never forget where a crazy woman with a knife burst into what looks like a break room - were they nurses? And starts threatening them and they try to stop her and she ended up stabbing one of them. This would have been 1979 and it doesn’t seem very P&G I guess it may have been GJ but could anybody name the story or characters?

We decided that we preferred GL and its softer feel.

Ugly little Evie? Rita's sister? The blindness sounds familiar. I remember she sort of went mute during her last days on the show. We'd see her but she never had anything to say.

Just saw this - I still remember Cynthia Gibb from SFT.

She looks quite good, I must say.

R183 I suspect it was GH but couldn't say what the storyline was. I was watching GL!

Evie was the luckiest soap character ever. Homely little whiner gets handsome Ben.

Well, at least the second luckiest. Plain Beth Raines got the gorgeous, pendulous jock of all time.

Surely I deserve a mention for rewards above what I deserved?

Blind Evie was so homely. And the actress was terrible. Did she even act ever again after GL?

The soaps just loved a plain virgin girl, with beautiful men WAY out of her league fighting over her maidenhead.

It made the dumpy fraus at home think they had a chance too.

Lily Walsh, Beth Raines, Jennifer Horton, Trisha Alden, Cricket Blair, Marley Love-all examples of this trope.

I wouldn’t put Beth in that category. Beth was pretty, had a nice body, big boobs, and was written to be very beautiful. There were times Judi Evans could look really beautiful or dowdy depending on how the styled her. But she was definitely at least a league above a Lily Walsh.

Saint Beth of Raines, beautiful? How positively ludicrous.

Beth did have huge tits

[quote]The soaps just loved a plain virgin girl, with beautiful men WAY out of her league fighting over her maidenhead.

It made the dumpy fraus at home think they had a chance too.

Lily Walsh, Beth Raines, Jennifer Horton, Trisha Alden, Cricket Blair, Marley Love-all examples of this trope.

Let’s not forget the epitome of the frumpy frau landing the hot guy - Tracy on Y&R. That heifer looked 45 when she was in her early 20s.

Yeah, Beth Raines does not belong in that category. And that’s especially true with her from 1997 forward. But even in the 80s, Beth’s looks could pull good D.

R194 Ambassador Bull Moose Von Halkein?

Lesbian Mary Kay Adams India character totally wanted Beth’s tits!

I wonder if Beth's birth control methods allowed The Pendulo... Philip to give her a tit fuck

India always projected “Pheeelleep, let me have St. Beth for myself”.

The only way Lily Walsh was getting the dick she did was if the closest Wal-Mart was 3 hours away.

I take it you mean the Martha version. Yeah. Now that I think of it, she wasn't a whole lot better than Evie Stapleton. Looking at sisters Evie and Rita together was almost cruel to that Grey? actress who played Evie. Lenore Kasdorf was one of the great beauties of daytime. And that drip was her sister.

Jack Betts has died. For P&G he played Louis St-Georges on AW. Probably better known for playing Ivan Kipling on OLTL. He was 96.

Evie stapleton sounds like Kimberly McCullough

Mike Hammett (Dennis Carrington) sounded like Martha Byrne's Lily.

Vanessa used to call her "little Evie"

so bitchy

Janet Grey fell off the face of the earth according to someone who knew her at Gl.

r204 I thought he'd died years ago.

Louis was Cecile’s father and Felicia’s ex-husband. They should have given him a son that could be a love interest for Donna or (later) Iris, when Cecile was terrorizing Bay City and Majorca.

WHET Brytni Sarpi?

R209 She's not on any of the shows we discuss here. Look for the Port Charles or Genoa City threads.

Thanks R210 . That was intended for Genoa City.

Fair enough, here's the GC thread

Jack Betts has died and I am now observing thirty days of mourning.

But back to P&G shit-just watched Alan’s Texas video. Man, it sounds like those Texas/Another World summer houses in the Hamptons were a blast. Who was fucking who? I bet Randy Hamilton would let Kin Shriner rim him.

It’s summertime! Now is when all the younger cast members get the spotlight. Which young actor will get a rote, boring storyline that showcases their limited acting skills?

Ok, I during kid. ATWT and GL had some pretty good summer romance stories in the 80s. AW had some lame ones especially around 1986.

AW’s teen storylines were lame and derivative.

They sent them all to New York just a few months after The Four Musketeers went there on GL. A few years later, Josie and Reuben fled Bay City for New York and it was a blatant rip off of AMC’s Jenny and Jessie storyline.

Ha ha. Location shooting in NYC when all they had to do was open the studio doors.

Kelly Nelson was all for the bolder holder swimsuits!

Kelly's slab needed extra support.

Phillip's slab needed *hydraulic* support.

AW brought in gorgeous Hank Cheyne aka Garcia and did very little with him. Just a paint by numbers romance and that was it.

I hate to pick on AW, but even though it had young characters, you never think of it having a "teen scene" the way GL and ATWT did. Shoot, even SFT seemed to do better in that regard.

[quote]AW brought in gorgeous Hank Cheyne aka Garcia and did very little with him. Just a paint by numbers romance and that was it.

He was supposed to be Donna Love's triplet, stolen away by Reginald so he and Marissa could start a new life.

At least that's certainly what the writers were hinting at, until they changed their mind, likely in response to casting Brand New Sexy Donna, who was just five years older than Hank Cheyne. Thus the two would not have been believable as mother and son.

Just saw this photo today on FB. Joel Crothers certainly was cute in his twink days (this is from Dark Shadows, well before he was on Edge of Night.)

He's got a proto-Bomer thing going on.

Joel drank down ALOT of cum.

Don't forget about me!

Glad Chris Bernau found a better toupee by the time he got to GL in 1977.

Twink? Crothers was already a handsome and furry MAN of 25 when he started on DS. And the AI manipulation of that photo is just kinda weird.

Even at age 18, when he appeared in an episode of the Zane Grey Theatre with Miss Barbara Stanwyck, he looked more jock than twink. So good-looking.

R227 I'm sorry, I didn't know that photo had been manipulated, I would not have shared it had I known.

I found it on a DS Facebook page and trusted its source. Sorry.

Was Daniel Pilon difficult or weird on the set of Guiding Light? I am reading a book a book about the history of “Dallas” ( he played Jenna’s Italian ex-husband Naldo), and both Patrick Duffy and Morgan Brittany said they weren’t sure if he was Italian or American because he stayed in-character at all times.

I became hooked on soaps while watching Matthew and Josie’s summer love story on AW. It was in August of 1988. I liked it from the first episode, well before I had any knowledge of the history between their families.

I liked Matthew and Josie’s romance, but they needed a Liza Colbyish bad girl to come between them.

R230, is the story where they met on a phone chat line?

R229, I’d love to know more about Daniel Pilon’s time on GL too.

It was common knowledge at the time that Daniel Pilon was French-Canadian. Duffy and Brittany sound like idiots if they said they didn’t know if he was Italian or American. LA airheads with no curiosity to just ask around about him,

Since we don't have a Santa Barbara thread, I'll mention the passing of Joe Marinelli here (he was on GL briefly).

His portrayal of Bunny (and once, Bunny as Joan Crawford) on SB was quite something.

Santa Barbara ... not much action

I seem to remember something, either as gossip or possibly even something printed in Digest or Weekly, about Pilon being quite an asshole on the set of GL. He was sort of the Jon Lovitz "I! Am! an ACTOR!" character to all his costars.

Which, as you might imagine, did not go over well.

When Another World was good, it was good. It also could suck. When Sven kidnapped Rachel Corey we all thought she was a goner. Olive Randolph was after Dan Shearer and tried to kill his wife Susan by burning the house down. John Randolph died trying to save her. Shocking! A few years later, their daughter, Julia, got her throat slashed in some NYC hotel. AW would kill off legacy characters quite frequently. I stopped watching in the mid eighties. About 10 years later I caught an episode and Rachel was still on and she had a twin sister. The show was beyond bad at this point.

[quote] When Sven kidnapped Rachel Corey we all thought she was a goner.

There were rumours going around my high school she would be killed and emerge as a new character on For Richer, For Poorer, or whatever it was called by then.

[quote] Olive Randolph was after Dan Shearer and tried to kill his wife Susan by burning the house down. John Randolph died trying to save her.

No. Very gay and British in real life Dan had already moved on from Frigidity Personified Susan and was all set to shack up with Alice Ii - that Harney woman with the big blonde hair.

Olive tried to burn Alice. It's on YouTube. "GOOD BYE ALICE!"

Then john dies trying to save her.

The best Olive scene was when Evan tries to kill John and John ends up shooting Evan. Poor John. Olive goes nuts and screams her infidelities. Effective creepy music. I think the audio is around somewhere.

Alice! Yes, the blonde with big hair who cried all of the time. She was annoying. Then there was the backwoods girl Blane who was after Jamie and the Corey money. She was a good villain for a while but then changed a became a bore.

Correction, R239-Brian Murray, who played Dan Shearer, was actually South African. But he did spend several years with the RSC in England where he was in an acclaimed production of King Lear starring Paul Scofield.

Thanks r241. I believe his husband posted here. You? Much better actor than AW gave him a chance to be.

Daniel Pilon was a terrible actor.

I wasn’t married to him, R242, but was in a relationship with him for several years. Talented and very charming man but…uhhh…very difficult to be around. Self-involved to an extreme-yes, I know, an actor cliche but still.. I was with him at the tail end of his time on AW. When he guested on GL a few years later he told me the Grant Aleksander story which I “introduced” here on DL-when Grant walked on set, he strolled over to Brian and Chris Bernau (and maybe Ben Hendrickson?) and said “Chris, man, I’m beat, just coming off a long night at The Mineshaft, I’ll be napping in my dressing room.”

Grant would’ve made a billion $ as a porn star. Lol

Thanks r244.

And yes I know actors

DANIEL PILON was straight. Was fucking a female actress friend. Greek woman. Beautiful. To be fair she took it too seriously. She had a worse time with Adrian Paul. Attempted suicide.

Pilon's brother Donald is somewhat of a legend in Québec cinema. I think he's still alive. Daniel died of cancer years ago. Don't get me wrong. He wasn't a bad guy.

Within that small community of Quêbecois actors it was well-known that Jean Leclerc hated Daniel Pilon. Both were handsome as fuck in person. I could see why my friend Alaxandra went for Pilon.

Leclerc was gay of course. Big time alkie. Nice when he was sober. I think he's still alive with the same partner, out in the country, near the American border.

There was no way GL would allow Daniel to stay in the pivotal role as Alan. His acting was shit. Next to Zim Zimmer, Michelle Forbes, Robert Newman, Grant Alexander, Michael Zaslow, Maureen Garrett. No way.

Grant and his pendulousness is a DL classic.

There was a 'fight' scene between Phillip and Alan-Michael (Carl) on GL circa 1988; AM thought Phillip had bedded Harley (he hadn't).

Grant, I could tell, was using stage combat to push Carl around without really hurting him.

I know everyone always talks about the Phillip and Rick friendship, but I always liked watching Phillip protect AM from Alan's abuse.

Pilon's sole strength on GL was that he really, somewhat magically did look and sound a lot like Bernau. But it wasn't enough. He was very different as an actor.

Alice Barrett aka Frankie Frame is talking to Locher next week.

Pilon was serviceable as Alan. I didn’t mind him. But there was a scene in with Michelle Forbes he was so bad in she almost laughed. Maybe she did. I think the majority of the time he was pretty decent. I almost would’ve preferred him over RR.

Daniel Pilon was adequate as Alan, but he certainly didn't have that spark that Chris Bernau did.

Pilon was excellent as Max Dubujack on Ryan's Hope. Really had that spark in that role, so it was surprising that he didn't have it when playing Alan.

At the time, I kept wondering if he was holding back. Pilon knew from the get-go he was a temporary sub, so he didn't want to commit the ultimate offense of outshining the actor he was subbing for.

For whatever reason, he failed to really take off in the Alan role.

As for Ron Raines, he was playing a completely different character who happened to have the name Alan Spalding.

Who could have played Alan instead of Pilon or Raines?

Maybe Pilon would’ve been the better choice given what AuntLiz said. Maybe he was holding back? Maybe he just wasn’t into it since he knew it was only temporary? At times he was very good. He had a few scenes with certain characters where he really shined, but mostly next to powerhouses on GL mentioned above his acting was very “soap opera.”

Was Bernau’s death sudden?

R253, I couldn’t agree more, Aunt Liz — Ron Raines’s Alan was not the same character. People loved him and I think he’s a great actor, but it was not the same character at all. I felt similarly about many of the characters on ATWT who were brought back under Hogan Sheffer (Craig, Meg, Dusty).

My strongest memory of Pilon’s Alan is when Alan was faking paralysis. He’s in the wheelchair, and someone who suspects he’s faking (Harley? Nadine?) jabs him in the leg with a huge hat pin.

R256 It seems so. I don’t think they thought he was going to die. They expected him to come back.

Bernau left GL in 1988 and died in June 1989. I think there's always been an assumption he had HIV/AIDS so I don't think he was expected to return.

R259 Then Pilon should’ve given his all. Maybe they would’ve hired him. He may have thought he was temp, but if he would’ve given it his all he wouldn’t be the first temp to earn the job.

Actors get to sick to work and have to have subs all the time. That' standard in the world of soaps.

I'm sure when Bernau got too sick to work in June 1988, they all assumed he'd bounce back and be back at work.

It's doubtful Bernau ever said he had AIDS. And likely no one in charge ever officially said AIDS, but probably whispered it. Reportedly, Bernau was open with his castmates about being gay, so in 1988, it would be natural for the castmates to assume it was AIDS.

Pilon was Alan for more than a year, right?

According to Soap Opera Central, Pilon played Alan regularly for a year, and then did several one-day returns.

[quote]Daniel Pilon (July 25, 1988 to June 23, 1989; August 28, 1989, September 21, 1989, January 16, 1990)

Didn’t he come back for those one offs because of Beth returning from the dead?

That was sad. The music! Ugh.

Is Jill Farren Phelps going to be a guest on the Alice Barrett Locher Room interview?

Yes r267, with Ellen Parker, Genie Francis and Robin Strasser.

They’re going to take turns beating her with a bag of oranges, for charity.

Here is a clip of Daniel Pilon returning for a one off. Great episode all around- Alan has been implicated in taking money for Beth’s ransom. This is after they found out it was staged and Beth wasn’t alive. Phillip wants to hurt Alan deeply. So, he offers Roger VP of Spaulding in front of Alan. Alan is shaken. As they leave Alan tells Phillip both Roger and Blake know Beth isn’t in that coffin and implores Phillip to open it.

Bonus- a good Sonni/Maurreen scene and Big Billy lecturing Lil Billy about bullying.

It’s sadly not the full episode.

R268 wins the award for one of the all-time best replies on a Marvelous Midwestern thread. 🏆

This is the culmination of the Beth is alive scam with all our favorites (Rick, Sonni, Roger, Phillip , Blake, Bradley) there to see Beth’s imposter Dana. Great episode all around.

Daniel Pilon was definitely on for a few weeks during this.

Last 5 seconds Beth is shown by a campfire to actually be alive.

The final episode of Another World - June 25, 1999.

Aired 25 years ago today.

[quote]Aired 25 years ago today.

Thanks for the reminder. But it was 26 years ago today.

Is this from the Contessa?

The chick who's WAY too attached to the P&G soaps. Like, seriously, she scares me.

Maybe r275 but she also knows her stuff.

Bernau WAS Alan Spaulding. He loved Phillip beyond measure. He was changed by Hope (the show should not have lost her ESPECIALLY after Alan Michael came on and especially when he was hospitalized).

Bernau often paused before he, as Alan, would answer a question. He sized up every situation he was in.

Two scenes he did with Beverlee really stand out in my mind.

They meet in Alan's office after he's been dethroned, May 1988; she asks him what he's going to do. The man has NOTHING at this point and he says, "I don't know. I haven't made my mind up yet." And it sounds like a threat. Like this isn't over. Brilliant.

Another time he and Alex are yelling at each other at the country club; he warns Alex not to blab that he lied about Josh not being Marah's father. "Marah's REAL father Josh Lewis is back at Lewis Oil! You know what sweet revenge those savages are capable of!"

Alex: "We'll find a way to keep the damage down. Our company will survive the likes of Reva Shayne!"

Electric. Fire. And we were spoiled with fantastic performances every day.

Today, we have the unending saga of Aristotle who gives a flying fig!

Donna Cuntessa can only be trusted 1/4 of the time. She’s a whacko. And a cunt. A nasty cunt at that. She lies. Ask Melissa. Linda Dano, who never says anything bad about anyone, cannot stand Donna Bridges!

I liked how Bernau was written to love his adopted son more than his bio son. Yes, he loved Phillip beyond words. Did anyone ever think he was jealous of Beth? Phillip’s love of Beth was actually all consuming. It is what made them a super couple. When Bernal’s Alan was taken to task by Judi’s Beth, you could sense 1) He knew she was very intelligent and tough, 2) he knew she loved Phillip 3) he knew Phillip loved her far beyond him. He knew Beth was always going to win. When he could, he took the chance to take her out, but only when it was a sure thing like her going missing. Am I wrong?

YOu may be on to something R279.

Pam wrote complicated characters including MALE characters.

We'd never get a scene like this on today's soaps.

I haven’t seen the explanation of Beth’s 1986 kidnapping played out in 1989. Damn. This was good shit. Pam did her homework. I’m convinced Pam secretly wrote Beth’s “death” now. Beth was taken by Professor Blackburn who shot Phillip in front of her. That was the last we saw Judi’s Beth. This re-enactment shows Beth was dragged to a boat shed, was going to be raped (again), and decided she would beat Professor Blackburn to death with a boat ore. Intense. Beth Chamberlin did a fantastic job. Beth remembering the assault then pounding the ore down until in breaks,, then seeing the actual murder, was well done. Beth was traumatized into dissociation. All around great writing and acting by everyone. I’d been looking for this for so long.

Here it is.

[quote] Ask Melissa. Linda Dano, who never says anything bad about anyone, cannot stand Donna Bridges!

oh shit. I had no idea.

Donna B was gossipgrrrl in the early days of DL soap threads.

I am upset now. sorry. i should have known.

she didn't like me. i accused her of creating pissing contests but I respected her.

The GL stylist during 88-90 was terrible. They styled the beauty out of Beth Chamberlin and damn near made Sherry Stringfield dowdy sometimes. Reva didn’t look especially dazzling either. Whomever it was did an all around terrible job.

Is that Susan Moore?

R280 wow

R283 Donna gossips, but it is almost always wrong gossip. lol She thinks that because she knows someone who worked at SOD 20 years ago, she is an insider with all the gossip. She’s a nasty old cunt. Very vicious.

Yeah, they really made Beth look like a country bumpkin when Beth Chamberlin, a beautiful woman, started playing her. Super Long dishwater blond mousy hair, horribly cut and styled, with clothes that Judi’s Beth would never even wear. WTF. I saw a 1990 clip and the even made Maureen Garrett look terrible. Whoever took over in 1991 started getting it right

Pam got lambasted for writing scenes where men showed affection to each other. Which was mostly unjustified criticism......

.....though there WAS the one scene with Philip and Rick......was it a teddy bear? stuffed elephant? Something where Philip gave the stuffed animal to Rick and quite a few people made comments that it seemed very romantic.....

[quote] Yeah, they really made Beth look like a country bumpkin when Beth Chamberlin, a beautiful woman, started playing her. Super Long dishwater blond mousy hair, horribly cut and styled, with clothes that Judi’s Beth would never even wear. WTF. I saw a 1990 clip and the even made Maureen Garrett look terrible. Whoever took over in 1991 started getting it right

That was a terrible style era. At ATWT that was when they had Kim wearing those "Who Shot The Couch?" blouses dresses. Just the loudest prints and patterns, all country influenced. I'm surprised the sets weren't filled with Longaberger baskets.

Beth’s style might’ve worked when she first came back after 3 years with Neal, but after she regained her memory she should’ve regained her fashion sense. They really short changed Beth Chamberlin’s beauty.

Thanks for posting, R265.

I always loved that melancholy version of the theme.

Why did GL bring Brandon Spaulding back to life in 1984 only to kill him a month later?

And why did GL go to the trouble of giving Brandon a daughter with his mistress, Sharina, but then not do anything with that newly revealed daughter, Victoria?

Yes, I know that 14 years later, they brought on Victoria's daughter, also named Victoria, but barely gave her anything to do and ultimately wrote her off. She was the Valerie Spencer of GL.

[quote]he didn't want to commit the ultimate offense of outshining the actor he was subbing for.

I don't know what you are talking about.

Wasn’t that Brandon/Sharina story ended prematurely in 1984? i thought I read that. Soaps were very weird about interracial romance back then.

The Brandon/Sharina thing did end suddenly, and after we met Alex's sister we never heard from her again.

A weird retcon, much like the change-o presto to Amanda becoming Brandon's daughter instead of Alan's daughter.

[quote]like the change-o presto to Amanda becoming Brandon's daughter instead of Alan's daughter.

How did they explain that? Did it make any sense at all?

Not really, R297. It was one of the stupidest mistakes ever made by GL and a huge slap in the face to the legacy of Douglas Marland. And Toby Poser was horrendous casting as Amanda.

They de-SORASed ger as well, by quite a bit.

It was really a dumb story. If they wanted to recast her, they could have done so without the BS of a retcon.

Who was writing at the time of the retcon?

Megan McTavish is the one who brought Amanda back to Springfield.

R298, I couldn’t agree with you more. People loved Toby Poser, and I’m sure she would’ve been great as a different character, but what a slap in the face to viewers like me who loved Amanda and Kathleen Cullen.

I enjoyed Toby Poser a lot. She was a nice addition to the show. And a good actress.

She just shouldn't have been cast as Amanda. She was another one of these actors who was essentially playing a new character who happened to have the name of someone already known in Springfield.

Show should have brought back Kathleen Cullen, who should never have been let go in 1983. And show should have honored Amanda's history, not rewritten it.

Find another place for Toby. Perhaps she could have been another offspring for Alan from some one-night stand he undoubtedly had over the years. Or from one of Brandon's one-night stands.

R304 agree. I liked her, but she wasn't Amanda.

Even if Kathleen Cullen wasn't available or for whatever reason they didn't want her back, they could have cast a more mature actress who at least somewhat resembled her.

Amanda should have been brought back sooner, in addition to being a Spaulding she had ties to Ross and Josh.

Amanda working as a madame with a stable of whores was absurd.

Who could have played Amanda in the 90s?

I agree that Amanda should’ve been brought back sooner. I also thought Ben Warren should’ve been Ben McFarren.

Toby Poser could’ve been Rita’s daughter. Gus also could’ve been Rita’s child.

Linda Dano got such a kick (she laughed SO hard) listening to the story about how 2 fans found the AW bench and took a shit on it! True story.

For whatever reason TGL wanted nothing else to do with Rita, which I find strange, but some shows are funny about their history.

What is the AW b

Who could have made a good Amanda. ...

as she was originally conceived. ..

maybe one of the MJs from AW?

R309 They were supposed to bring her back in 1987-ish. I think the actress said no so they scuttled it.

R289, Alan Michael had had enough of Phillip trying to protect him from Alan (who WAS after his son's trust fund.)

Alan-Michael said to Phillip: "You want to be my daddy. Go be a daddy to your own kid. Meredith's."

Then Phillip blocked AM from leaving the room just by towering over him.

Kinda sorta homoerotic but still, a great acting scene.

Lenore Kasdorf was let go from Santa Barbara in 1987, she was written out right around the time the Dobsons were locked out of that show.

Imagine if she had returned to GL in 1988, around the time Holly returned. Although I think it Peter Simon’s Ed would not have felt like Rita’s husband.

Carl Evans was so fucking sexy and hot. Yes, Rick Hearst was an improvement, but both were effective and hot. Carl was masterbate material. His scene with Sherry Stringfield’s Blake were HOT. It took him to another level. AND He had sexual chemistry with Beth Chamberlin’s Beth.

Carl was boyish and sexy.

Rick, from day one, was more like a man.

I wish Rick could’ve come on as one of Alan sons from an affair. And we could’ve kept Carl. So sexy.

Between 1980 and 1984, GL changed a ton

They never should have lost Rita, Amanda, Hope or Hillary

Did Hillary have fans?

Hillary came across as too manly.

Well yes, r320, if you’re comparing her to Alan, Henry and Kelly.

Hillary should’ve been recast.

GL changed a lot but stayed great save for maybe 6 months which it was still decent. 4 HWs and it had no effect on quality or ratings as the show was top 4 (2, 3, 4, 5 on any given week in 4 years).

Did AW ever recover after the LeMay peak? Or was it all downhill once he left?

I still think Olivia should have been revealed to be Ed and Rita's child, wrapped up in the San Cristobel mess.

R323 Ratings wise- no.

R324 Yes. They missed the boat with Rita’s potential kids. I guess they figured GL had more younger viewers since Pam’s tenure and didn’t think she’d add much to the show.

R325, we asked a focus group and they said no to Rita's kids.

Man, 41 years later and I could slide Hillary in there.

Should have stopped Hope.

Marsha DID give us the Guiding Plight.

does anyone know or weigh in on if this is Beverlee in Barbados at about 52:42.

You can't really see her face; if they were going to fly her to Barbados, I'd think they would want to show her.

forgot link

For the poster who said Carl was "masterbate" (sp) material.

R327 Yes, that was Beverlee and the actress playing her sister.

Apparently that scene went sort of haywire because it was super windy, and they had to get the ashes scattering shot while they were still there, so it was filmed from a distance.

R329 Autocorrected to that spelling which made me doubt myself.

If I was at that game, I'd ask Carl and Grant to sign their jockstraps for me.....

Carl was a cute young man. I loved him. Reminded me of a high school crush Mario. Decent soap actor. Rick Hearst was probably the definitive adult Alan Michael. The other one was dud.

Where was Hope? So Elvira Brady Bunch became Miss Piggy. So what? She was never all that. There were TONS more underemployed soap actresses, with a lower body quotient to that TONS, who could have easily handled the role.

The Bauer hatred by later PTB is what killed this show. Same for their other shows. It's a P&G problem.

Why did Carl leave the show. He was numero uno on my "wish I could blow him" list for Springfield. And then he was gone.

R334 He didn't know of your yearnings. If only he had!

I agree about Carl Tye Evans.

I went to a GL luncheon when he was on (probably his first year). He was dating Martha Byrne and brought her with him the event. He was even hotter in person.

Martha was getting knobbed by Carl? How unfair.

By the time he left, his character and Sherry Stringfield’s were getting into a relationship. He had a shower fantasy about her and JHFC he was so fucking sexy. Off the charts sexy. His body, the way he just devoured her. Really hot. R334 Hell yes! All day!

MARTHA BYRNE was getting that? Life is so unfair.

God, I wanted Grant -- or Phillip -- to be my older brother; someone to chase away the bullies and slip me 20 dollar bills.

Carl and Sherry had great chemistry. She had chemistry with everyone.

R329 That’s an photo from the Alan Locher collection, right? Locher is SO annoying!! He has to call everyone ‘my friend’. My friend Carl Tye, my friend Grant, my friend Terrell, my friend Kim and on and on. Why does he have to make sure we all know that he has friends? It’s so irritating.

[quote] someone to chase away the bullies and slip me 20 dollar bills.

That's not what I wanted Grant to slip me.......

R342, ha!

I suppose I walked into that.

or backed into it.

R329. not that this is a compliment to Alan, but Ryan Murphy did the same thing at the Globes in an acceptance speech. "My friend Matt Bomer," etc.

Being in show biz and around the actors is difficult. They're so damn personable and charming.

But, generally, I don't think they know how to be true friends. Or parents. or partners in relationships. They should just be kept in storage until they are rolled out and make another movie or TV show and then go back to some private waiting room.

On Alan’s Threads page there’s a lovely photo of Kristi Ferrell, Larkin Malloy anc Kim Zimmer at an anniversary party for GL in 1987.

Kristi turned out to be koo koo crazy.

I've been watching some The Edge of Night, Rexford Clinic storyline. Chris Goutman was smoking hot - distractingly hot. Also, Ann Flood is a beautiful woman. The story is pretty good, too, and features guest star Doris Belack.

The Rexford Clinic was a thrilling story; I will never forget watching the climax at 4 PM ET in Boston, I think on the New Hampshire affiliate.

Slesar was brilliant.

The Rexford Clinic was absolutely one of Edge's best storylines. Led into the Sky Whitney/Jeff Brown saga.

It was Ann Flood's last major storyline on Edge but she was fantastic in it. Was disappointed that she didn't get another storyline after her amazing performance. Brilliant to cast Doris Belack in that role.

Agreed about the Wexford Clinic story and about Chris Goutman being hot. Lucky Marcia McCabe getting the Goutman cock for decades before they split.

Chris G definitely was hot in the late 70s. BDF for days.

And not sure if Kristi was crazy, but she was definitely struggling with a coke addiction.

And Marcia wasn’t the only one getting Goutman cock!

Yesterday was Guiding Light's 73rd anniversary (on TV).

It will be 90 years since its radio debut come 2027.

Do we have video of the former Goutman hotness?

R341, in fairness, those people probably do consider Locher a friend. I mean, they worked together for years.

Personally, I don't think Goutman was ever all that hot, but you can see him at age 24 in his very first (uncredited) screen appearance in "The Doctors," episode September 7, 1977 (Doug Marland).

He's an underfive playing "Stuart March," who shows up to walk his sister "Mary Jane" (Katherine Glass) down the aisle at her wedding to "Tom Carroll" (Jonathan Frakes).

He enters the scene just before the 4 minute mark. Lots of 70s hair.

He was handsome, for sure.

Goutman and Mark Pinter both had a similar sort of handsomeness and charm in that era. It's very leading-man-of-the-local-theater vibe. But charming.

From both his turns on Texas and Edge of Night, Goutman seemed perfectly at ease playing the charming, suave guy who could snap at the smallest thing and turn into a monster.

When did Craig Montgomery stop being such a cad? Was that a Marland thing, a Sierra thing?

Marland made Craig a hero and Barbara a bitch.

He was brilliant.

Bryce always played Craig is sympathetic though.

I wanted Marland era Craig inside me quite deeply. Those lips......

Martha Byrne's husband finally reported to federal prison yesterday: FCI Milan in Michigan (classified low security).

That's the same prison they sent Billy McFarland (Fyre Festival). I am not very familiar with what Michael McMahon has been accused of, but that prison is said to have good facilities and is well-staffed, with almost a country club vibe.

Well, Byrne can content herself that the Big Beautiful Bill will pass.

And she can be the soap opera poster child for The Banality of Cruelty.

FCI Milan isn't on the list of "country club" federal prisons, but it is low security. It does receive chatter from people familiar with the place about it being a facility where they send a lot of sex offenders. One guard refers to it as a "chomo yard" (child molesters). Also, a lot of contraband to be found (per another guard), probably because it is low security. During COVID it got press about the high rate of infection due to it's "open bay" dormitories of bunk beds for half the population where there are 74 men to a room. See photo.

My guess is, he'll apply for early release in six months (after 1/3 of his sentence is served) and try to get some deal where he's sent to a halfway house or under home arrest for his remaining 12 months. Of course, he's appealing and Martha wants everyone to send cards and letters to Dump for a pardon. The other two defendants tried with him were sent to FCI Allenwood in Pennsylvania, also low security.

Not one of the remaining soaps on the air had a 4th of July setting today and it was completely ignored altogether except for one (I think it was DOOL). Oh how I miss 4th of July soap episodes of yore featuring young men lounging by the pool in Speedos and flip-flops.

Remember the 4th of July when Frannie ran from Casey’s embrace only to be captured by Marsha Talbot?

My family started a 4th family get together because of the Bauer BBQ.

Julian McMahon - who got his start (or at least his US start) on AW, has died.

I loved the Bauer BBQ. Did Pam start that? It seems that the first one was somewhere in those 80s years.

Very hot on Another World. He was considerably bulkier on Nip Tuck but still sexy. RIP.

We never got to see Bert in a swimsuit

Bert seems like she'd prefer to go skinny-dipping.

With the prosthetic leg as a floatie

[quote]Bert seems like she'd prefer to go skinny-dipping.

Only if her buddies Nancy Hughes and Joanne Tate Tourneur joined her.

Nancy Hughes doesn’t like to get her hair wet.

Nancy left the skinny dipping to hussies like Kim and Ellen.

ewwww. the pool smells like vinegar!

Nancy judged Bert for having that young Dr. Nelson sitting on the patio in *clutches pearls* just a swimsuit.