THEATRE GOSSIP #588: The "Pointless Bitchery! The Datalounge Musical" Edition

Here's the old thread.

I feel bad for Jinx. She wanted this moment to transition her into more theatre roles but she’s not really being taken seriously in these reviews

Variety loved Jinkx:

"Monsoon is a triumph. Broadway should be honored to have her gracing the boards, as she is sure to be canonized as one of the all-time comedy greats. She makes a meal out of a cameo role, which the creative team have wisely expanded. It’s a great piece of progress to have a trans actress and drag queen on Broadway playing a role that is neither explicitly trans nor a drag role. Monsoon helps prove that while she can bring her identity and artistic skills to a part, she need not always or only be a reflection of herself on stage. She is an extremely talented, versatile performer with the ability to play a wide range of roles — and to play them very well. "

I saw the wokified Peter Pan on tour last night. I've had enough reinvention for the next decade.

I think "sweaty" is the perfect adjective for this Pirates! In all of its connotations.

I Am 63 Going On 30

Wouldn't it be a kicking the rubber parts if Pierce won the Best Actor In A musical Tony?

[quote]"Monsoon is a triumph. Broadway should be honored to have her gracing the boards, as she is sure to be canonized as one of the all-time comedy greats. She makes a meal out of a cameo role, which the creative team have wisely expanded.

Ruth in PIRATES has never been a "cameo role," so I guess this reviewer doesn't know what that word means. And the role hasn't been "wisely expanded" for this production, it has been very unwisely expanded, with an unwanted and unnecessary song thrown into the middle of Act II from another G&S operetta.

Reactions to Thread #587:

As an actor myself, I would consider Betty Boop to be a much more challenging role than Rose in Gypsy. “Emoting” is much easier than the kind of comedy Boop requires. Plus, originating a role has challenges that a role in a revival simply doesn’t have.

It’s awful Audra’s father in law died, but thousands of people bought tickets to see her in the show which has been marketed as “Audra Gypsy.” Some probably traveled long distances to see her. My mother-in-law died 19 years ago. She was a wonderful woman and it was sad she went in her early 70s but I was shooting a TV show at the time and there is no understudy in TV and film. I went to work through the tears of the loss. Also- Vanessa Hudgens went on in Grease Live immediately after her father died.

R - 104- Heather Headley and Jennifer Holliday would be equivalent names. Jennifer Hudson and Cynthia Erivo would be bigger names.

Mercedes Ruehl won a Tony and Oscar in the same year.

I’m fine with Oh Mary winning Best Play (I loved it and Cole) but for me, The Hills of California was the best play I saw this season.

These theater novices get to play Roxie and they won’t give me a shot at Amos. I’ve auditioned twice and have a TV following as well as substantial theater credits.

R - 209- I disagree. The swing bit and the Ziemba ballet were equally as good. Contact was a fantastic night out.

I’m impressed with Sadie Sink. Not many Broadway Annies go on to have the career she’s having.

The Merman bootleg is much better than the Audra one. Better sung. Better acted. Better orchestra too. Audra pushes and acts each word one at a time when they are meant to be spoken/sung in one phrase. And I saw Audra live in previews with the build up.

Wouldn’t Jellicle Ball be good on the Cabaret set?

How can someone “miss” an Auschwitz reveal even if it made sense artistically? Like “It was such a better night on the town when there was a swastika at the end?”

R - 319- Sutton Foster as Rose. It’s happening.

I wish I could see Eva in Cabaret. I liked her so much in The Great Gatsby. A likable Sally would be nice.

Wasn’t Friedman’s production of Merrily a critical hit in London? If so, why shouldn’t she get some credit for the Broadway production?

To be fair to Lindsay Mendez, she was the only Tony winner of the three stars when Merrily opened. She wasn’t a total nobody.

Winning a Tony is nice but it doesn't automatically make you a "somebody".

For every person who knows who Lindsay Mendez is, there are probably 2000 Groff fans and 20000 Radcliffe fans.

And, that's being very generous to Lindsay.

I’m underwhelmed.

And apparently in the wrong thread.

R9 Mercedes Ruehl did NOT win a Tony and Oscar in the same year.

She won her Oscar in 1992, the year after she won her Tony.

Anyone know what G&S song from The Mikado has been given to Jinx for an "11 o'clock number"? I think it might be "The Moon and I" but that would be a shame.

Alone and Yet Alive from the Mikado

Wait, Rupert Holmes re-wrote approximately HALF of the lyrics to PIRATES?

Hard. Pass.

There's enormous love and respect for David Hyde Pierce in the theatre community. Don't be surprised if he grabs that Tony from the young kids.

Thanks, r15!

I'm confused. A recent podcast predicted Cole Escola as a front runner for the Best Actor Ton nomination. And also Jinkx Monsoon as Best Actress. Wiki calls Jinkx as a drag queen—ie biological male. What's the difference? .

If Gypsy wins at the Tonys, they may try to extend it after Audra leaves by replacing her with LaChanze.

I'd love to see Heather Headley replace Audra.

Will The Mikado ever be done again? The whole point of it as a satire is to have white people playing Japanese. It's part of the satire. It is also one of the great musical theater pieces. The score and book or among the greatest.

Are.

You’re not the one who’s confused, R19. But I digress.

If a critic calls Ruth a cameo he is a complete idiot and should not be reviewing even community theater.

The Ruth of my heart is Patricia Routledge who I saw twice at the Delacorte. I didn't even know who she was. And it was a total who is this person?! moment.

Billy Porter as Rose.

If Audra isn't selling tickets in Gypsy than LaChanze and Heather Headley sure as hell won't.

Pirates is a mess. I saw it this week and I enjoyed the first act but the second act is boring as hell. Only DHP deserves accolades, the rest is an ugly mess of new and old, very ugly sets and costumes and frenzy choreography.

[quote]It’s awful Audra’s father in law died, but thousands of people bought tickets to see her in the show which has been marketed as “Audra Gypsy.” Some probably traveled long distances to see her. My mother-in-law died 19 years ago. She was a wonderful woman and it was sad she went in her early 70s but I was shooting a TV show at the time and there is no understudy in TV and film. I went to work through the tears of the loss. Also- Vanessa Hudgens went on in Grease Live immediately after her father died.

Audra's absences for the death of her father-in-law were scheduled and announced some time in advance, and presumably everyone who had bought tickets for those performances was notified a.s.a.p., and people who wanted to buy tickets for those shows after the absences were announced were informed that Audra would not be appearing on those dates. So the issue is not with those scheduled absences but with her other, unscheduled absences, including the three other shows she missed in that same week with no reason for her absence given.

P.S. I know at least one person here reported incorrectly that the cast album for Audra's GYPSY was going to be on the Ghostlight Label, but now it has been officially announced that it's being released by "Arts Music and Octoverse Media," which are part of Warner Music Group.

Robbie Fairchild is in the new Amazon show Etoile. So is his ex, Tiler Peck. All that's missing is the chorus boy who Robbie cheated with.

No love for Clooney and Groff.

Here she is, boys! Let the bitching commence.

I thought it was Robbie’s understudy in American in Paris, Ashley what’s his name, that he cheated with.

Supposedly the break up with Tiler was ugly.

None are in the main cast or recurring in Etoile.

R4 what did they alter/add?

R34. According to IMDb both are in 6 out of 8 episodes. I didn't say they were in the main cast but they were both featured in episode one.

I really hate the non-gendered categories of the OCC awards. Why didn't they just double the number of performers then? So many worthy people get left off when you combine them.

r22, the Trump Center for the Performing Arts will host an all-white Mikado with original lyrics (including the n word in "My Object All Sublime") for your anti-woke wanking pleasure.

[quote]If a critic calls Ruth a cameo he is a complete idiot and should not be reviewing even community theater.

I must say, I had a similar reaction.

No thank you, r38.

R31,

Megan Hilty also left out of the OCC nominations.

What in the world did that critic mean by his/her use of "cameo" to describe Ruth's role?

Maybe they were going for "supporting".

R41. She's not the only one.

The term "cameo" was originated by producer Mike Todd for his 1956 film of Around the World in 80 Days, which featured many (over 40, I think) star actors and actresses in brief surprise appearances throughout the film. Why he chose the word cameo I'm not sure, but I do remember cherishing the souvenir book from the film's original showing, which my parents bought me and which I still have, that has little caricatures of each actor drawn in a cameo brooch like setting.

You really don’t know why he chose cameo?! 🧐

Mike Todd produced The Swing Mikado (all black cast) on Broadway.

*Hot Mikado on the heels of the swing version.

R45 the OED apparently says it predates Todd—

…it just became a common movie term after he used cameos as part of the publicity campaign.

Groffsauce & MAGA cunt interview up now.

[quote]I thought it was Robbie’s understudy in American in Paris, Ashley what’s his name, that he cheated with.

Ashley Day, now married to Adam Kaplan.

So Tiler is a dude and Ashley is a chick?

Tiler Peck is a woman. She and Robbie were married. Then he started fucking boys, including Ashley Day.

Tiler had no tits & no hips, right? That’s all that would (might) make sense.

What kind of suck parent would name their some Ashley Day—he appears to have married his gay twin.

* sick

Or

sucky

Fairchaild has a nice scene in Episode 1 of Étoile, basically reacting to another character telling a long-winded story. Is Peck playing the dimwit ballerina? She’s not bad. Terrible show, though. I seriously doubt it gets a Season 2.

Mercedes won the Tony in 1991 and the Oscar for the year of 1991 which is what I meant.

Which is how no one, anywhere, defines “the year X won an Oscar.” Simply put, you failed. A better actor would know better.

DL loves to put some correction up on people

R59 Hmmmm...I didn't know actors were required to take "Awards and Who Won Them!" classes in acting school.

Who the fuck cares? She won a Tony and an Oscar within a year's time.

[quote]Tiler Peck is a woman. She and Robbie were married. Then he started fucking boys, including Ashley Day.

I think Robbie was gay and closeted long before that and the marriage was just a cover.

The guy pings to high heaven!

Apparently, everyone in the ballet world knew Robbie was a repressed gay except for Robbie and Tiler.

What a great way to end the week!

Such a curse you bring to the thread, r64?

R61 Stigle —it was in response to a prior post with the historic list. Someone wanted to do a re-write. Go bitch there.

Stifle*

[Quote] The Merman bootleg is much better than the Audra one. Better sung. Better acted. Better orchestra too. Audra pushes and acts each word one at a time when they are meant to be spoken/sung in one phrase. And I saw Audra live in previews with the build up.

Audra’s performance is so different from previews. I ignore any reviews of her that are based on previews

[Quote] It’s awful Audra’s father in law died, but thousands of people bought tickets to see her in the show which has been marketed as “Audra Gypsy.” Some probably traveled long distances to see her. My mother-in-law died 19 years ago. She was a wonderful woman and it was sad she went in her early 70s but I was shooting a TV show at the time and there is no understudy in TV and film. I went to work through the tears of the loss. Also- Vanessa Hudgens went on in Grease Live immediately after her father died.

Audra seems to be a better person that both you and Hudgens

R69 What a stupid comment.

Her father died unexpectedly during the run of 110 in the Shade, which is nearly as demanding a role as Rose. He died on Sunday April 29, she performed on Tuesday May 1, canceled Wed and Thursday, then was back on May 4. Maybe she learned something.

Dead Outlaw is a lot of fun. I do not think it will beat MHE. Now that I have seen them all, my vote would be for MHE.

[Quote] [R69] What a stupid comment.

And yet it’s the truth

Those were purposely ALL BLACK Mikados which were done as stylized versions. Don't be so stupid R38 though you clearly don't have to try. Gimmicks like Merrick's all black Dolly. A minstrel show. Clearly you are gunning for a woke all white Porgy and Bess.

I have to decide between Purpose, Dorian G., John Procter for a brief NY visit. Thoughts? Currently leaning toward Purpose. I loved Appropriate last season (same playwright.)

Is the bootleg of Audra’s Rose’s Turn from previews? I don’t remember her acting being that bad when I saw it in previews.

Merman played GYPSY as written. Audra plays GYPSY (and I saw it last week) as a Greek tragedy.

I don’t think The Mikado will be done again.

[Quote] Is the bootleg of Audra’s Rose’s Turn from previews? I don’t remember her acting being that bad when I saw it in previews.

Yes, it’s from previews. Considering it’s only an audio how can you even tell how she’s acting?

[Quote] Merman played GYPSY as written. Audra plays GYPSY (and I saw it last week) as a Greek tragedy.

Audra was able to mine it for more emotion and depth than Merman. It certainly has characteristics of a Greek tragedy.

And, yeah, I really believe you saw it last week

[quote]Considering it’s only an audio how can you even tell how she’s acting?

I can tell how Murray Head is acting on Jesus Christ Superstar, and how Jeremy Irons is acting when he sings "Be Prepared" in The Lion King. In fact, the latter is my favorite performance of his.

[quote]I think Robbie was gay and closeted long before that and the marriage was just a cover.

No shit, Sherlock! No one in the world who's familiar with the situation suggests any other reality.

[quote]Audra was able to mine it for more emotion and depth than Merman. It certainly has characteristics of a Greek tragedy.

If that's what you think, you have as little understanding of the show as Audra does.

[quote]And, yeah, I really believe you saw it last week.

I'm not the person you're calling a liar, but on that person's behalf.....up yours.

Well, this thread got insufferably bitchy real fast.

As most Theatre Gossip threads do, r84.

If one thinks Merman did it as written, that is the mark of limited acting ability. An actor’s job is to bring more to the character than the page. Of course, this was a woman whose concern was whether Rose’s nervous breakdown should happen on the upbeat or the downbeat.

[quote] I have to decide between Purpose, Dorian G., John Procter for a brief NY visit. Thoughts? Currently leaning toward Purpose. I loved Appropriate last season (same playwright.)

I loved Appropriate. Purpose is no Appropriate. Go see John Procter.

A friend was a substitute usher at Gypsy earlier in the week. 900 in the audience in the vast Majestic when it had opened as a sellout. How long can they run? Maybe they are selling out on weekends.

[Quote] If that's what you think, you have as little understanding of the show as Audra does.

And you’re the Grand-Poobah of understanding Gypsy.

[Quote] I'm not the person you're calling a liar, but on that person's behalf.....up yours.

The reason he is claiming to have seen Gypsy last week is because he was previously criticized for commenting on it based on seeing it in previews. If he hated it so much, do you really think he went back last week?

Audra finds motivations for Rose that are right there in the book but I’ve never seen any other Rose find. THAT’s what so incredible about this performance. She emphasizes certain words and phrases that allow her to portray Rose a completely different way—far more sympathetic, far more maternal. It’s an extraordinary moment in theater

To be fair, Bernadette and Audra found similar paths, though Audra is indeed more maternal and Peters was more about her own emotional pain from being abandoned. Patti really didn’t do it for me, all rage and sass and pouting.

When does JUST IN TIME open? Apparently, they had their opening night party a few nights ago.

From Reddit, even more FOH uselessness this time from the Majestic:

[quote]A few younger girls in our section wouldn’t stop talking so a man leaned over to ask them to be quiet. These were not children, they were in their tweens at least and far old enough to know how to behave in public. All of a sudden, their mom stands up and just starts screaming at the man, and then her husband LEAPT OVER THE ROW, reared back, and slapped the man so hard it reverberated. Then grabbed him and started shaking him. The kids were yelling “dad stop!” and all of us were trying to get security’s attention. It was horrifying. Security barely even blinked?! They slowly came over and took away the man who got assaulted (while the rest of us tried to tell them what actually happened and beg them to take out the assaulter). The husband grabbed his wife and kids and fled the theatre, probably because he realized all of us were about to make statements. This was barely into the second act, and was during the horn part of the show so it was louder and they didn’t stop the show. It was WILD. All of us were pretty shaken for a good 10-15 minutes after.

[quote]UPDATE: to answer a few questions. We DID try to do something. The Majestic is very large as Broadway theatres go, and it was the last few rows right side orchestra under the overhang. So not in the front middle where everyone could see. We tried to talk to security and they just left and didn’t ask any of us what happened or what we saw. No one went after the man, and they just moved the guy who got assaulted over to a new seat (which again, wild). I was super disappointed in security for their lack of action and zero follow up. I plan on contacting the theatre and giving seat numbers!

" I plan on contacting the theatre and giving seat numbers!"

Snitch

Wrong, r90. I'm the person who saw GYPSY last week, but never posted that I saw it in previews. Because I didn't.

Good for you, R96. There are people here who have nothing better to do with their time than to try to keep tabs on who posted what previously, what they're posting now, if there's a pattern, etc., etc. And they're often wrong.

[quote]If one thinks Merman did it as written, that is the mark of limited acting ability. An actor’s job is to bring more to the character than the page.

That's all semantics. An equally fine definition of good acting is for the performer to bring out whatever is in the writing according to the what the writers wanted, rather than adding a whole bunch of subtext that's not there or "reinterpreting" the lines and the songs to "make the role their own."

[quote]Of course, this was a woman whose concern was whether Rose’s nervous breakdown should happen on the upbeat or the downbeat.

You know, two things can be true at the same time. Even if many people would agree that Merman didn't mine the role of Rose in particular for all of its inherent drama, as succeeding Roses such as Lansbury and Daly and Lavin did, that doesn't mean the bizarre, ridiculously over-the-top performances of "Rose's Turn" by Audra (and by Patti LuPone before her) are in any way praiseworthy or even acceptable. And yes, to anyone who prefers Audra's recorded performance of that number to Merman's, I would say they don't understand that an emotional breakdown in a musical (or a straight play, for that matter) should not look and sound exactly the same as an actual emotional breakdown in real life, which is a truly horrifying thing. In my opinion, an actor should never actually lose control on stage, because that's not acting, it's something else.

P.S. As I think most of us know, Sondheim was insulting and dismissive of Merman because she nixed him writing the music for GYPSY as well as the lyrics, so though I'm sure there was some truth in what he said about her, there was also a lot of exaggeration and unnecessary bitchiness.

[quote]And yes, to anyone who prefers Audra's recorded performance of that number to Merman's, I would say they don't understand that an emotional breakdown in a musical (or a straight play, for that matter) should not look and sound exactly the same as an actual emotional breakdown in real life, which is a truly horrifying thing.

Because it can't possibly be that someone can have a differing opinion. No, it must be that they just don't understand something properly. I bet you're the same fool who made the 'wrong-headed' comment about anyone having a different opinion too.

“ there was also a lot of exaggeration and unnecessary bitchiness”

Can there be unnecessary bitchiness?

R99, why do you dog me for saying that "no one can have a differing opinion from mine" when that's not true? The truth is that sometimes when people express an opinion, I can see and understand their point even if I disagree with them, but other times, I just can't understand where they're coming from. And I express myself accordingly

For example, if you disagree with my statement that an emotional breakdown in a musical (or a straight play, for that matter) should not look and sound exactly the same as an actual emotional breakdown in real life, then not only do I disagree with you but I can't understand how you can feel that way, and it seems to me you don't understand how "Rose's Turn" is meant to be performed -- i.e., in the style of Merman or Lansbury or Daly or Lavin or Peters, not in the "style" of Lupone or McDonald. And despite your comments against me, I find it hard to believe that you never use similar language when you express your opinions and disagree with others.

Tedium abounds.

R75: I didn’t care for APPROPRIATE which I considered a weak, lazy play which became a hit last season due to the starry cast and some very effective theatrical tricks at the end. So toe my recommendation with a grain if salt.

But I thought JOHN PROCTOR IS THE VILLAIN is a well-written, well-observed play, eautofully structured, which builds to a cry of protest in the last scene. The play is well-acted by a terrific ensemble, all taking place on a fine, detailed set.

Good theater.

This week ...

MONDAY -- Smash performs on Today, Jonathan Groff is on Live with Kelly and Mark, Lawrence Hilton-Jacobs (Jason's Lyric, playing in Brooklyn) is on Sherri Shepherd, and Cole Escola is on Stephen Colbert (Colbert may have more stage guests this week; his Tuesday-Thursday shows are TBA)

TUESDAY -- Erika Henningsen is on Today (She's officially there for The Four Seasons, but maybe Just in Time will get promoted)

WEDNESDAY -- BOOP! performs on Today and Bill Burr is on Kelly Clarkson

THURSDAY -- Sarah Paulson and Wendell Pierce announce the Tony nominations on CBS Mornings and Maybe Happy Ending performs on Today

FRIDAY -- Death Becomes Her performs on Today

Do all the shills on this site who bash shows -- the AUDRA/GYPSY thing is beyond tedious -- in order to try to influence word of mouth or Tony voters really think that works? It's so obvious ('I hated Appropriate but John Proctor., etc..."). I know everyone's freaking out because the nominators soon meet, but keep the lunacy out of here, and just get back to gossip.

My understanding, R105, is that Datalounge's repeated calling out of "Boris" on DL posts in Trump's first term tilted the 2020 election to Biden. So, yeah. Datalounge is kind of, sort of powerful.

And that power will be used, this week, to tilt the Tony nominations based on the conversation here about Audra/Gypsy.

I think there are maybe 8 Tony voters around here. At least three are on time out for 48 hours.

She´s playing it for sympathy?

Yes, and in operatic voice....

Hate watch away!

fix those janky teeth

r101 Seriously, re-read your own post. You claim to not have a problem with people having differing opinions and then, in the same post, say anyone who disagrees with you on Rose's Turn simply doesn't understand how it's "meant to be performed". Your opinion is not fact.

Also, dear god, the absolute tedium of a world where everything must be done the same way.

So a poster here was actually claiming that that guy on the right in r109 was once a working rent boy? People actually paid that for sex? Are we sure it wasn't actually more of a sexual version of a protection racket?

Richard Lawson, the critic-at-large at Vanity Fair, weighs in with his Tony nomination predictions here. He expresses his opinion that Audra and her singing voice weren’t “a great fit” for Rose. He predicts Nicole Scherzinger will win. His predictions are about a half hour into the podcast. I suspect Lawson is a DLer although of course he’ll only admit on air he’s a Redditor.

Keep my brother's name out of your fucking mouth, r113!

Patti was just a neurotic mess as Mama Rose. Her Rose’s Turn was like Norma Desmond’s mad scene.

I was surprised when she won a Tony for that.

Audra is going to win the Tony because she’s likeable.

She IS Audra.

What’s regarded as effective or good dramatic acting in a musical has changed so much over the past 65 years. Comparing what Audra’s doing with what Ethel Merman did in the same role is a pointless exercise.

And I’m finding the new recording to be absolutely thrilling. While listening, I was struck by the fact that this is, of course, the first Broadway revival since Laurents’ death, and that the new (unexpected and surprising) line readings might be more down to Wolfe’s direction than anything, free to do what he wanted without risking the book writer’s wrath as Sam Mendes experienced. The slight gap after ‘Well, someone tell me, when is it my turn?’ - gorgeous.

I know this makes me a bad theatre gay, but I never usually visit ATC, but often see it mentioned here. Was a little bored waiting at the optician this afternoon and started browsing ATC for the first time in years. I am 100% convinced some of you post there. I mean, the Jonathan Groff and Nicole S. thread alone -- it's filled with bitter Boomers who are "over" Groff and who loathe being considered part of "the gay audience" that Groff refers to. It's too funny.

[quote]You claim to not have a problem with people having differing opinions and then, in the same post, say anyone who disagrees with you on Rose's Turn simply doesn't understand how it's "meant to be performed". Your opinion is not fact.

Yes, that's right, it's my opinion that anyone who thinks "Rose's Turn" should be performed as if the actor/singer -- not only the character -- is literally having an emotional breakdown, with lots of screaming and crying rather than singing, doesn't understand how that number in particular and musical theater in general (and any kind of theater in general) should be performed. I don't know why you find that phrasing so offensive, and again, I would be very surprised if you yourself have never used similar language.

[quote]Also, dear god, the absolute tedium of a world where everything must be done the same way.

A typical straw man argument. Merman, Lansbury, Daly, Lavin, and Peters each performed "Rose's Turn" in their own way, but their performances were within the range of solid musical theater acting with controlled technique, as opposed to the bizarre, self-indulgent, reckless performances of LuPone and McDonald.

You're beyond help. If any particular role were actually meant to be performed a particular way it'd be locked into the rights - as happens with A Chorus Line.

You guys want Gypsy in amber…like an extinct insect. Sad last days indeed.

Also r120:

[quote] How do I know that no cast album of GYPSY has yet been recorded? Because I know people who would absolutely know if it had already happened, aside from the fact that such things are usually announced via press release. But if you'd like to believe that the cast album has already been recorded in secret, and no word of it has yet been publicized, be my guest

[quote]You're beyond help. If any particular role were actually meant to be performed a particular way it'd be locked into the rights - as happens with A Chorus Line.

You really are a straw man, aren't you? As I just wrote above, ALL of the Broadway Roses except for McDonald and Lupone managed to perform "Rose's Turn" in their own way but all with control and solid technique, as compared to the lack of control, shouting, and self-indulgent overacting of M and L. No matter how many times you try to rephrase that as my saying "there's only one way to perform the number," it's just not true, so stop distorting my meaning.

[quote]You guys want Gypsy in amber…like an extinct insect.

No, NO ONE wants that. See above.

We’ve all seen many Gypsys, We all sick to fucking death of Gypsy,

This is exactly why I give the highest kudos to Audra for performing Gypsy like I’ve never seen it before.

[Quote] Merman did it as written

So did Audra. Not a word by changed but the characterization was completely different. Both totally acceptable.

[Quote] No, NO ONE wants that.

Yes, all the decrepit “Merman sang it right” BS is from those who want to keep Gypsy in amber

r124 First of all, that's not how you use 'straw man' at all. Secondly it's not a straw man argument when I'm using your own words. You said

[quote]doesn't understand how that number in particular and musical theater in general (and any kind of theater in general) should be performed

There's no rephrasing, no interpretation, it's exactly what you said. You are not the supreme arbiter of how theatre "should be performed". Again, direct quote.

The fact that you can't even defend your own words but instead try and pretend the argument is about something else should give you pause.

[quote]So did Audra. Not a word by changed but the characterization was completely different. Both totally acceptable.

Exactly, r125, thank you.

Jesus, seriously enough you demented queens. The Audra argument has been done to death. This isn't gossip, it's lunacy. Go argue on some stupid kiddie chat room/board/reddit.

You are relentless, R127, but also disingenuous. For the last time, yes, it's my opinion that "Rose's Turn" should not be performed as if the actor/singer, rather than the the character, is actually having a breakdown onstage. As I've noted repeatedly, of all the Broadway Roses I've seen -- that is, everyone except Merman -- only McDonald and LuPone gave uncontrolled, self-indulgent performances of the number. So in my opinion, all of the other interpretations were acceptable and laudable, but those two are/were not. That is my opinion, and if course people are allowed to disagree, but I'm sure many people don't disagree.

And yes, it's a quintessential straw man argument to say that the comment "'Rose's Turn' should not be performed in a uncontrolled way with lots of shrieking, sobbing, and shouting instead of singing" is equivalent to "'Rose's Turn' can only be performed one way, or in certain specific ways." If your understanding of what "straw man argument" is different, then your understanding is incorrect.

The one unforgivable way of playing Rose is what Midler did. She is not a freaking dreamer with a heart of gold.

xactly, R77. Audra seems to Emote. Every. Word. As if all is Holy Writ. Madame Rose can be Too Dramatic.

Nevertheless, you can't buck a nun.

Remember the old days, when these threads always came back to "Follies"? Now they always come back to Audra. I know that this, too, will run its course, but it can't happen soon enough.

One can only hope.

Weak objections don't count in the theatre, it's hysterics or nothing.

Noel Coward, "Star Quality" @3:05

Merman created Madam Rose in a role written for her, in a show that had a few good roles for others in her cast. The show closed. Time passed. Eventually, to not duplicate a Merman performance, other actresses mined the role for inherent drama, or were so directed. And enough with all the chatter about Rose’s closing number. It’s just a big song for the star, imagining herself as a star performer. Stop with all the emotional breakdown shit. Just do the end as written, get to the joke, the bit with the stole and end the damn show. Rose and Louise exiting together can be quite poignant.

R133, come sit by me!

Leave it to Wayman Wong at ATC to post with an atrocious pun about Groff, Jeremy Jordan, Aaron Tveit and Darren Criss every time one of them so much as farts.

WHET Karen Olivo? Is anyone else shocked that she kept her promise to get out of Broadway and NY forever?

r130 Finally, you accept that's your opinion and not "how that number in particular and musical theater in general (and any kind of theater in general) should be performed".

And since you really need everything explained - you can call someone's argument a straw man. You don't call the person a straw man. Unless you want to look like a fool.

Speaking of Groff, wtf with the Variety feature with Nicole Scherzinger? I was surprised to find it the most embarrassing and shallow of the five interviews.

Karen Olivio 'keeping her promise' not to return to Broadway is like saying I'm keeping my promise of not fucking Aaron Tveit.

a bouquet

Karen Olivo:

[quote]And like, I’m trying to spend my time figuring out how I can be a better human, rather than how can I sing eight times a week. What role could be better than the one that I’m creating right now?

Darren Criss talks too much, is too in love with the sound of his own voice and rather a pretentious twit.

And sly little Cole seems to know it, though he never lets on.

Fun mash-up atR144, Bernadette comes out of it wonderfully, makes me remember how much I liked her in the role.

Roz Russell had the best “Rose’s Turn” costume —you can’t do better than Orry-Kelly.

[quote]You can call someone's argument a straw man. You don't call the person a straw man.

You are right about that. When one refers to a "straw man argument," it means the person who's making such an argument constructs out of straw a statement of opinion that's very different from the opinion that the person with whom they're arguing actually stated. For example, if Person A says "I hate Chinese food" and then someone else responds "You hate all food that's not American because you're closed-minded," that's a straw man argument because Person A never said they hate all food that's not American.

So "straw man" does indeed refer to the argument, not to the person making it. I called you a "straw man" because you kept making that kind of argument, so in a sense you're turning into your own straw man argument, but my usage was not technically correct :-)

[quote]WHET Karen Olivo? Is anyone else shocked that she kept her promise to get out of Broadway and NY forever?

It must be about time for the new and improved Karen to come crawling back to Broadway.

Wayman invents puns as he's whacking off.

Gypsy is one of my favorite musicals (if not THE favorite) and even I am sick of hearing about it.

Also: if an actor can find a legitimate new interpretation of a great role, then kudos to them but in reality, many of these classic roles are well mined...there IS no new way to play them, at least in a way that makes any goddamn sense. Sometime's there's really only ONE way to play a role (though it can be tweaked).

It's really annoying when you go to famous works with iconic lines and moments made famous by (probably) the original actor and the current actor chooses some bizaare interpretation of that iconic line so they're seen as original and "not copying". And, 99 times out of a hundred, that stupid actor has just destroyed the line and the moment because the original brilliant choice WAS the correct, best choice! And, probably the one the author intended.

Actors tend to be a bit stupid. But, not usually as stupid as directors, most of whom started out as actors as well.

John Proctor is going to clean up when the production rights become available to be performed after its Broadway run. It's the type of show that regional theaters and community theater and academic theaters will just devour. Timely script with lots of good roles for young women. Kimberly Belflower is gonna make bank.

r148 Okay, now I see - you're just incapable of ever admitting you made a mistake. That genuinely explains so much.

Audra is giving one of the finest performances in memory. I’d genuinely rank it alongside Cherry Jones in The Heiress and Doubt, Redgrave in Long Days Journey, Lange in Long Days Journey, Lansbury in the same role, Gleason in Into The Woods, Holliday in Dreamgirls, Cariou in Sweeney, Peters in Night Music, and Jones in Fences. Her performance is staggering, surprising, funny, and deeply moving. I’ve seen it twice and cannot wait to experience it again.

PLEASE STOP WITH FUCKING GYPSY.

[quote]Holliday in Dreamgirls

Holliday's performance consisted of one big number.

R151, case in point, just watch all the different replacement versions of Popular on YouTube, none of which rival the original. They think that over-doing it somehow makes it theirs.

Would just like to point out that no one on this board used to revere Merman…until Audra opened in Gypsy!

Before that it was always ANGIE, ANGIE, ANGIE! and whether you saw her on the pre-Broadway tour or on Broadway or at the state fuckin’ fair!

An unusual combination, but kinda wish I could be there.

FOLLIES anyone?

I’ll take Mame for $600, Alex.

I saw Dreamgirls with several different Effie's and thought Jennifer was the worst. I would rather have seen Sheryl Lee win the Tony that year. Or Loretta who wasn't even nominated. I thought Dreamgirls worked better without Holliday.

R146: I just can’t believe he’s an Emmy, Golden Globe, SAG and soon to be Tony winner.

He's *this* close to a Sarah Siddons, r163.

Has Glenn Close seen Sunset?

Yes, R165, and here was her reaction after the show.

Girls, girls -- all of these arguments about "Gypsy" will be permanently laid to rest when my definitive film portrayal of Rose finally comes to fruition.

It will be an Oscar battle for the aged.

Ages. Sorry.

Very mixed reviews for Just in Time.

r118

Those pauses are awful—and there are tons of them Some People & Rose’s Turn. Totally sucks the momentum and energy out. Sondheim would have put the kibosh on them on Styne’s behalf.

Just how insufferable is Darren Criss' Tony acceptance speech going to be?

[quote]Okay, now I see - you're just incapable of ever admitting you made a mistake.

Seeing how I began my post with "You are right about that" and ended it with "my usage was not technically correct," the fact that you interpret all that as my being incapable of ever admitting I made a mistake is truly bizarre and makes it clear that your hatred for me and/or my posts overwhelms whatever cognitive thinking and reading comprehension abilities you may possess.

[quote]Her performance is staggering, surprising, funny, and deeply moving. I’ve seen it twice and cannot wait to experience it again.

You'd better get there soon....

R171. I'm guessing he'll make Adrien Brody seem humble.

I never saw Angela in Gypsy but her album never did it for me...she's too English to be Rose.

I'll always be Team Merman.

And, I also adore Roz. The movie IS really great!

Going by the London cast album Lansbury was “too English to be Rose”? Compared to those cockney newsboys she sounds like Marjorie Main.

Never look back, r176.

[Quote] Those pauses are awful—and there are tons of them Some People & Rose’s Turn. Totally sucks the momentum and energy out. Sondheim would have put the kibosh on them on Styne’s behalf.

The pauses are thrilling. Audra is at the top of her craft—a pause can bend the meaning of a phrase to accentuate, to shade—she’s able to find a Rose I’ve never seen before yet completely relevant and perfect for the show around her. She is the greatest Rose I’ve seen, and I’ve seen many. Never have I seen anyone make the words more meaningful and alive.

Nope. Those pauses are not the writers’ intent. At all. It is the performer, in conjunction with the creative team, being unable to execute moments as they are intended.

Can you imagine pauses in “Being Alive?” Or “Wait?” Indulgent and wrong. Would have never been allowed if any of the writers were still alive.

Cole Escola really played Darren Criss because they only talked about MHE for about 30 seconds.

I kept thinking throughout the entire interview, “WHET Chris Colfer?” Such a lovely young man.

R180, what about the mandatory pauses in Pinter? Or Mamet?

Yes, as intended by the author.

R86- totally disagree. The job is to play the role, not overact. If you trust the material, the job is easy.

And responding to an earlier post, the job of playing Rose isn’t to mine it for emotion and depth. It’s to play the part and allow the story be told. Of the two bootlegs, Merman’s acting is much better than Audra’s.

By the way, I’ve always thought that if an audience is thinking “wow, this is great acting,” the actor hasn’t done their job. If the audience isn’t wrapped up in the story, the actor has failed on some level. Gypsy is a well written piece. An exciting story. All that is needed are actors who enter on cue and say/sing the words.

[quote]Gypsy is a well written piece. An exciting story. All that is needed are actors who enter on cue and say/sing the words.

Having seen Betty Buckley's version, I have to disagree. She sang the hell out of the score, of course, but her acting was what you described. She said the words. Period.

I did not see Buckley’s performance so I cannot comment.

You either got it or you've had it. And boys we've had it.

Hi dolls!

Just left a small weekend trip to NY

I saw Sunset Blvd. I saw it in London, Nicole still sings better than most, the performance was mannered, but the audience had a great time. Andrew Lloyd Webber came out on stage. I would still vote for her over Audra.

The Last Five Years. I didn’t get the Nick Jonas hate. Was he the most amazing thing ever? Of course not. Was he terrible? No. It reminded me of when the elder gays would wax poetic about the Kenley Playhouse or some other stock theatre where a famous person would do a musical. To me it was no different than “David Cassidy in Joseph, 3 weeks only!” He sang well enough and I wasn’t disappointed in what I saw.

Old Friends. I saw this in London too. Bernadette sounded better than she has in some time, and took much less risks vocally (which was a great thing)

It’s such a good show for people who love Sondheim (which I do, so I had a blast again)

Were there pauses? Different phrasing? Was it all sung exactly as written? Would Sondheim have allowed it were he alive? Let’s dig deeper, old friends.

I think Criss has a lot to worry about from Jordan and Groff, Tony-wise.

I haven't seen such a pitched battle of the caftans since the great Antigone dispute of 407 BC.

Saw DEAD OUTLAW and was completely delighted. Kudos to book writer Itamar Moses and director David Cromer. I went in knowing almost nothing about what I was about to see and left smiling. (And Andrew Duran is hot, even stiff.)

It is an axiom on the Datalounge that most men are hotter when stiff.

Bravo, R180.

Some day, will they rename a theater the LuPone? How does that happen? Because whatever you make of her, you'd think there would have been a Merman Theater or a Mary Martin Theater.

R196, do you want to try that again with some clarity?

No, cunt, I don't. Fuck off, you bitter old slag.

R45 What a wonderful memory. There are memories people have of attending the theatre/movies that I find fascinating. You made the list!

pause

Because whatever you make of THEM, you'd think...

A bit fixated, R201. Metamucil might help.

[quote]I kept thinking throughout the entire interview, “WHET Chris Colfer?” Such a lovely young man.

He's now an award-winning children's book author and in a 12 -yr relationship with Will Sherrod, and actor/producer

^an...

[quote]Will The Mikado ever be done again? The whole point of it as a satire is to have white people playing Japanese. It's part of the satire. It is also one of the great musical theater pieces. The score and book or among the greatest.

Yes, after "Pirates" they are redoing "The MIkado" with this song added to the second act.

r203 Another gay guy dating a mirror image of himself

Dead Outlaw vs. MHE is also a good competition. And I think Jordan is getting the TONY for best actor in a musical. They have to reward that snooze fest somehow.

Surprising how much talk there is about who's going to win a Tony, given after the actual winners are announced those same people will be insisting (correctly) that the Tonys are irrelevant and meaningless

I think MHE will prevail. OUTLAW offends some sensitive folk.

Frances Joe is going to have the same advantage in his Tony category Kara Young had last year. The play is going to be televised on PBS during the Tony voting period. Nobody is going to forget him.

^Jue.

He doesn’t need PBS to win. He’s the best thing around this year.

I didn't see Yellowface. Is Jue's performance as flashy as Young's?

In The Mikado the N word is used. It is in the late 30s film by the Doyly Carte. I saw it at MOMA. Maybe it has been bleeped out on DVD.

By the 50s they were no longer using it in their recordings. It's in the song I've Got a Little List one of the most famous songs from the show.

Francis Jue was so bad in the awful Soft Power.

Shut your trap, R202. That other post made zero sense without R201's correction.

[quote]Francis Jue was so bad in the awful Soft Power.

You seem to be in the vast minority with your opinion of his performance.

Who would have thought that Sheryl Lee Ralph would end up having a much bigger career than Jennifer Holliday?

My understanding is that Jennifer Holliday didn't have a bigger career due to a lack of professionalism and discipline.

Holliday had mental health issues and moved back to live with her mother in Houston for about a decade after Dreamgirls. That effectively killed her career.

r216 You'd have to be an utter simpleton to not be able to work out what r196 was saying. So, thanks for outing yourself I guess.

Was this mentioned elsewhere? Upthread? The previous thread?

If yes, my apologies.

[quote] The pauses are thrilling. Audra is at the top of her craft—a pause can bend the meaning of a phrase to accentuate, to shade—she’s able to find a Rose I’ve never seen before yet completely relevant and perfect for the show around her. She is the greatest Rose I’ve seen, and I’ve seen many. Never have I seen anyone make the words more meaningful and alive.

I legit can't figure out if this is a parody or not.

R214, I don't think there's been a performance or recording of THE MIKADO featuring Gilbert's original "N-word serenader" in nearly a century.

I share the disappointment that we're unlikely to get a full-scale MIKADO any time soon because of present-day sensitivities. Yes, as has already been noted here, Gilbert was sending up not the Japanese but the Japonaiserie-obsessed Brits of his day . . . and yet that layer of the satire has surely not been foremost in audiences' minds for quite some time, so I do understand why contemporary viewers might find it puzzling if not downright "cringe," especially with non-Asian performers.

Perhaps this analogy would help -- more than once in the past few decades, the adjective "niggardly" has been mistaken for a derivative of the N-word. It decidedly is NOT, etymologically speaking -- and yet, since it's not exactly in regular use nowadays, one can hardly blame people for being taken aback or even offended by it.

Groff review in NY MAGAZINE

Groff doesn’t channel Darin one iota, which I found problematic.

[quote]Groff doesn’t channel Darin one iota

Which is intentional.

Anyone know who Isaac Oliver is and how he came to co-write the lame book of Just in Time with Warren Leight?

And, r227, I guess, intentional or not, realizing how different Groff is from Darin, it seems to have been a brilliant idea to establish Groff is playing himself, not Darin, right from the top of the show.

So it's really just a Groff concert where he sings Darin songs?

I wish there were reviews or something like that where I could actually read about the show and see what it's like. But maybe I'll just sit here and guess.

[Quote] Nope. Those pauses are not the writers’ intent. At all. It is the performer, in conjunction with the creative team, being unable to execute moments as they are intended. Can you imagine pauses in “Being Alive?” Or “Wait?” Indulgent and wrong. Would have never been allowed if any of the writers were still alive.

You seem to have no concept of how theatre works. No, not every production is the same, exactly how the authors apparently intended. Even the authors understand that, for a work to live on, it has to mutate and stay with the times, No one demands to know what Shakespeare intended.

My God, who’s want to sit through yet another “Being Alive” or “Wait” that sounds exactly like all the other ones? We want to be surprised each time, led on a new journey.

Audra does exactly this. That’s the mark of a supreme actress.

Nicole S certainly doesn’t act anything at all “like the authors intended,”. Why does she get a complete pass and Audra get the rage?

[Quote] I legit can't figure out if this is a parody or not.

Yet we al legit know you’re an idiot

[Quote] Nope. Those pauses are not the writers’ intent. At all.

So?

When authors wrote something nearly 100 years ago and they’re all dead, I don’t particularly care what they intended.

[Quote] By the way, I’ve always thought that if an audience is thinking “wow, this is great acting,” the actor hasn’t done their job. If the audience isn’t wrapped up in the story, the actor has failed on some level. Gypsy is a well written piece. An exciting story. All that is needed are actors who enter on cue and say/sing the words.

If that’s all that’s needed, no one would be doing Gypsy because we would all hate it. Every production would be the same. Every Rose would be the heck. Heck, anyone could play Rose. It would be the new Chicago, where they’re at the point they’re randomly picking people on ten street to be Roxie.

Is the Rocky Horror revival going to have this much scrutiny?

[quote]I wish there were reviews or something like that where I could actually read about the show and see what it's like.

Who is this comment aimed at?

[quote]When authors wrote something nearly 100 years ago and they’re all dead, I don’t particularly care what they intended.

You might feel differently if you had enough talent to write something yourself, but I doubt that's the case.

Hello, daddy!

R237 Rocky Horror is a show that frequently gets fucked up because dumb young actors want to put their mark on their performances and make it "original" with unique interpretations and it pretty much always sucks.

Really, just listen to the soundtrack (yes, the SOUNDTRACK to the film) and figure out a way to just do Tim Curry...that's all we want in the first place.

But if you just want Tim Curry why not just go to a Picture Show screening instead?

And of course - must be the fault of the "young". All those oh-so-young actors being cast as Frank.

[Quote] You might feel differently if you had enough talent to write something yourself, but I doubt that's the case.

I’m sure you’re up all night wondering what Sophocles intended

[Quote] You might feel differently if you had enough talent to write something yourself, but I doubt that's the case.

If I’m dead and actors are still performing my works, I don’t care how they perform them

R242 No, old actors also do this..."mustn't sound ANYTHING like an original/famous performance!" "Must make it unique and nothing like the original!"

Even if it's a stupid interpretation.

Look, writers (or at least good ones) write characters to have certain rhythms and they write lines to have a specific emphasis. Changing those rhythms and removing the correct emphasis just fucks up the intent.

My favorite is when dumb actors will lose a major laugh in something because they fuck up the emphasis and timing because they're so terrified someone will accuse them of "stealing" from someone else.

I always like the example of Bette Davis and her performance as Regina in the film of The Little Foxes where she was accused of "copying" Tallulah Bankhead's highly acclaimed original stage performance. Davis would always reply with "I didn't copy her brilliant performance. My performance can only be considered to be similar to hers because we both correctly interpreted the material and played the role as it was written."

And, it doesn't mean a very good actor can't find a new/fresh take on material...but, they seldom do. And, if they do, they usually figure out a clever way to still retain the right cadence and meaning.

The critics love Dead Outlaw while the audiences are more lukewarm about it.

Yes, R246, Jesse Green raves. And what he calls (as if it’s a good thing) the “lack of pathos” and what Sarah Bahr, when reviewing it off-Broadway for the Times, referred to as DEAD OUTLAW’s “mischievousness,” may pinpoint why some audiences come out of it scratching their heads though they’ve been entertained with a singular and grotesque story.

What the critics see as admirable was the one thing that kept this good show from really reaching me — it’s lack of heart. I’m not saying it should be gooey and sentimental at all, but it needs more than nearly a minute of silence contemplating poor McCurdy’s fate, as effective as that moment is.

I couldn't care less about McCurdy, which is why I actually enjoyed it more AFTER he died.

[quote]Is the Rocky Horror revival going to have this much scrutiny?

It won't unless Sondheim had anything to do with the original production.

r231

Having been employed on Broadway since the 80s, I know very well how the theatre works.

[quote] Yet we al legit know you’re an idiot

I’m not perfect, but I can spell.

The comment at r230 was meant for r229

[quote]Weak objections don't count in the theatre, it's hysterics or nothing.

Ain't that the truth. Many theatre people seem to believe that every show or performance is either marvellous or dreadful. Perhaps it's a consequence of seeing every show under the burden that you have to go backstage after and give a friend your opinion.

In fact, bell curves being what they are, the truly marvellous and the truly dreadful, combined, comprise at most 10% of all shows and maybe 15% of performances. For a serious, theatre-loving critic, the everyday problem is how to appraise a show that is, give or take a few moments or a single performance, the same standard as pretty much everything else you've ever seen. You do it because you're seeking the visceral hit that comes with catching the rare piece of dazzling brilliance. (You also have fun with the equally rare total car crash, where analysis is useless and you might as well just be witty.) Sure, criticism is subjective and one critic may love something another does not, but most of them would agree that, unfortunately for theatre people and the effort they put in, most of what they see lies somewhere between "mediocre" and "really quite good".

[quote]Rocky Horror is a show that frequently gets fucked up because dumb young actors want to put their mark on their performances and make it "original" with unique interpretations and it pretty much always sucks.

The original Rocky Horror, on stage as well as on film, was directed by a distinguished director of straight as well as musical theatre with a real bent for Expressionism. After launching Rocky Horror, Jim Sharman returned to Australia, where he was THE master director of the plays of Nobel prizewinning novelist Patrick White (who dedicated a book to him), and equally brilliant with Brecht and Weill. He went on to direct several classic operas. He never tried to repeat Rocky or anything like it. He also didn't case dumb young actors in the first place.

If you put someone of similar stature in charge of it today, you'd either get a whole new reading, or variations on the Tim Curry performance that would give you new thrills. If you're going to redo an icon, even a comic one, you should treat it with the seriousness due an icon. Its in-your-face campiness was outrageous in the 70s, but making it more campy now, because you can, is just predictable. Let's hope that's not what happens.

Oops "cast", not "case".

Will the positive reviews for REAL WOMEN inch it closer to a Best Musical nomination?

R256: I think it will get a nomination and then close shortly after the Tonys.

Does DEAD OUTLAW have anything this funny in it?

No, but Dolores Gray would have made a good corpse.

Jonathan Groff doing Just in Time was a major misstep for him. He should have used the success of Merrily We Roll Along to book a streaming show on TV. Instead, he chose to do a cheap Bobby Darrin tribute show, which is just a glorified Vegas revue you could have seen at the Sands hotel back in the 1980s.

Better than the Sands…Caesar’s quality he is.

[quote]Look, writers (or at least good ones) write characters to have certain rhythms and they write lines to have a specific emphasis. Changing those rhythms and removing the correct emphasis just fucks up the intent. My favorite is when dumb actors will lose a major laugh in something because they fuck up the emphasis and timing because they're so terrified someone will accuse them of "stealing" from someone else.

R245, you really nail the problem with so many new interpretations of famous roles. On the one hand, nobody wants carbon copies of the original performances, but on the other hand, if actors in revivals feel they MUST find "new" line readings simply to avoid sounding like the roles' creators, even if that means destroying comic or dramatic moments, that's just stupid. Because sometimes there really is only one best way to say a line or deliver a monologue as it was created by the writer.

[QUOTE] What the critics see as admirable was the one thing that kept this good show from really reaching me — it’s lack of heart. I’m not saying it should be gooey and sentimental at all, but it needs more than nearly a minute of silence contemplating poor McCurdy’s fate, as effective as that moment is.

Are multiple people posting this same sentiment on these threads or is it just you again and again? I feel like I’ve read this exact same thought 4-5 times now.

R263, I'm guessing it's the latter. And if several critics see the tone of DEAD OUTLAW as a plus, maybe our poster should consider that an entirely valid opinion even if it's different from their own.

[quote]I feel bad for Jinx. She wanted this moment to transition her into more theatre roles but she’s not really being taken seriously in these reviews

Hey, don't jinx Jinx!

Transition! Ha-I see what you did there

I just went on TodaysTix to pick up a ticket for “Just in Time” and whaddya know? No tickets on offer. I gather it’s in a relatively small venue and I suppose they are reserving seats for Tony voters until the voting deadline. Irritating though.

Because all of 83 people in NYC voluntarily use TodaysTix.

Did these Dead Outlaw critics see the same show I did? I thought some of the performances were weak and found the score to be a little uneven. There’s not a lot of heart in the story and the narration makes it feel like a Wikipedia article rather than a Broadway show.

R269, DEAD OUTLAW received mostly rave reviews both off and on Broadway, so maybe you should just accept that, yes, the critics did see the same show you did, and they just honestly like it a lot more than you do. FWIW, I disagree with your comments about "weak" performances and an "uneven" score.

[QUOTE] Did these Dead Outlaw critics see the same show I did?

Are you the same poster saying this multiple times across multiple threads? The lack of “heart” is the common bond in each post so I’m thinking it really IS you.

Thanks, R271. And for what it's worth, when I saw and loved the show Off-Broadway, it never occurred to me that "lack of heart" was an issue. I think the tone of the show is just fine.

I hope the sound design at the Longacre is a lot better than it was at the Minetta Lane, because the lyrics downtown were just a blob of sound.

Dead Outlaw is overrated.

[quote]I hope the sound design at the Longacre is a lot better than it was at the Minetta Lane, because the lyrics downtown were just a blob of sound.

Another experience I did not share. And seeing how that was an Audible production, poor sound would have been a surprise, indeed.

R259 I'm workin' on that for ya!

I want to see that *one* show on The Great White Way that’s too understated!

For the person contemplating whether or not to see PURPOSE or JOHN PROCTOR:

I loved PURPOSE. Want to see it again.

Haven't seen this production of JOHN PROCTOR but did attend a reading of it several years ago. I'm assuming that major rewrites have occurred since that reading, cause what I heard was a fine, passable play, but nothing special, certainly nothing to merit the reviews the show has been getting. So I am looking forward to seeing what it has become, but I've a strong feeling I'm still gonna prefer PURPOSE.

That said, Kimberly Belflower is going to make bank from this show. And already has. The play has been doing the college and regional circuit since before the pandemic.

Jinx Monsoon and Bernadette are being submitted as featured actress in a musical, not leading lady. I don’t think Bernadette will be nominated. Oddly, she’s only been nominated one time for a Sondheim show (Sunday in the Park, twice if you count Gypsy) she was snubbed for Into the Woods and Follies.

Oddly or obviously? 🧐

" Gypsy" is NOT a Sondheim show.

I don't think Jinkx will be nominated because she's not very good in the part.

Anyone predicting any surprises and snubs later this week?

I think Lea Salonga will be nominated and, maybe, Beth Leavel.

Does Jinkx consider themselves a drag queen or trans? (Wiki calls Jinkx a drag queen.). If a drag quuen, how can Jinkx be nominated as a Featured Actress?

Putting the Audra Arguing aside for a moment, how much can professional revivals fiddle with a musical's score? Because there's a lot in this Gypsy's score that's different -- the last third of All I Need Is The Girl, who sings what line in Mr. Goldstone, the Minsky section of Gypsy's Strip and probably some smaller tweaks along the way. Do the producers and creative team have to get permission to alter the original score? How does that work? Does the score reviser get credit for their work? (I've only listened to the recording online; I haven't seen the production or its Playbill.) Could they put back songs that were originally cut? (I've always wanted to see Momma's Talkin' Soft staged).

An enigma wrapped in a riddle…

R260 Not sure why Groff doing the horribly titled Just in Time is a mistake...it's selling out and he's getting strong reviews personally and it's very likely he'll get a Tony nomination. And, as the only star, he's being well paid. Even if it only lasts 6 months or until January, it'll be seen as a personal hit for him and proof he can carry a show on his own.

R285 Jinkx was "genderqueer" for quite a long time but just very recently said she's full on transgender and will medically transition.

I think it wise of her to go Featured, where she has some small chance of a Tony nomination (Leading was not gonna happen) but even though I'm a huge fan of hers, and only judging by the clips, she seems miscast and lackluster in this stupid Pirates show.

R286, your question unwittingly brings the discussion into an area all the "We have to follow the creators' INTENTIONS!" fundamentalists are unprepared to explore.

The fact is that the text and score of GYPSY have changed in each incarnation, including the 3 B'way revivals directed by Laurents himself. Which of these is the "correct" version that reflects those set-in-stone intentions?

Many wonderful actors routinely ignore stage directions in order to find a way into the role that feels authentic to them, just as many wonderful opera singers decline to listen to recordings of their roles while they're preparing them. Parroting someone else's inflections and phrasing is, for them, the death knell of any hope of spontaneity or individuality in their own performances. Other performers study recordings and draw inspiration from them. Neither approach guarantees -- or precludes -- a great rendition.

Laurents himself said that he wrote stage directions for Merman that any real actress would have broken a pencil crossing out. Lansbury, Daly and LuPone all performed Rose in their own ways, even with the original bookwriter directing -- there are many routes to an interesting result when the material is this good.

One shudders to imagine many of the posters here as stage or music directors. Would you just play the Merman bootleg at rehearsals and instruct the Rose to copy it? Does your Rose have to sing every number in Merman's keys?

Why would Jinx be nominated for lead when her role is basically a cameo, or so I heard.

I’m sorry but I didn’t care for Beth Leavel.

I know she is an industry darling, but she mugged her way through Ladies Who Lunch when I saw Old Friends Saturday.

I much preferred Barbara Walsh from 2006. Even Patti was much more restrained.

Jink is terrific in Pirates, and it's definitely a supporting role, not a cameo.

r290 They'd play the Merman bootleg on opening night

Groff is overrated. His two back-to-back Broadway vehicles required little to no emotional depth on his part.

R295 Have you been to space?

[quote]Jinx Monsoon and Bernadette are being submitted as featured actress in a musical, not leading lady. I don’t think Bernadette will be nominated. Oddly, she’s only been nominated one time for a Sondheim show (Sunday in the Park, twice if you count Gypsy) she was snubbed for Into the Woods and Follies.

It's wild to me that Bernadette was not nominated for Into the Woods. Probably her most iconic performance along with Dot. I wonder if she was submitted as Lead or Featured actress. I could see an argument for either. If it were Lead, I would still have awarded Joanna Gleason for her luminous Baker's Wife, but, still...

R291 Because she was billed over the title. The Tony rules are/were that if you're over the title, you're a Lead and under the title, you're in Featured. Which is why Tom Bosley and Dick Van Dyke and Barbara Cook all won Featured Tony Awards despite the fact they're playing leading roles in their respective shows (Fiorello, Bye Bye Birdie and The Music Man). Which is quite stupid. To get out of getting put into a category you don't belong in, you have to ask the Tony Awards to change you into the correct category.

The stupid cameo thing came from a stupid review that didn't seem to understand that a cameo is a very brief role performed by a name star. Jinkx plays Ruth in Pirates, which is a fairly substantial supporting role that's been beefed up a bit for this new version by giving her a song from another Gilbert & Sullivan show.

[quote]I’m sorry but I didn’t care for Beth Leavel. I know she is an industry darling, but she mugged her way through Ladies Who Lunch when I saw Old Friends Saturday. I much preferred Barbara Walsh from 2006. Even Patti was much more restrained.

Interesting! I have never seen Beth in person (just on TV performances), but looking forward to catching her in Old Friends next month. Do you think this mugging is just trademark Leavel or is it as much due to the direction? I ask, because, frankly, I think the British are often terrible with Sondheim and retreat to their baser 'Carry On' / Pantomime instincts when performing musical COMEDY. You saw plenty of that in the broadcast version of Old Friends. I'm still planning on seeing it in person because... well.. Sondheim, Bernie, Lea... why not?

R297. Seriously?

People in reviews shouldn't qualify for Tonys. They are just standing there singing few old songs.

That's ludicrous, R295. He brought tremendous feeling and humanity to his MERRILY performance -- a major reason (to my mind) why the revival went over so well.

Calm your Sicilian tits, Patti / R300. I wasn't suggesting you shouldn't have been nominated. I just was surprised that Bernadette wasn't also nominated.

Also, you got a hit show and a cute husband out of Anything Goes, so just... let it go.

[quote]People in reviews shouldn't qualify for Tonys. They are just standing there singing few old songs.

I always find definitive "should" / "shouldn't" statements about entertainment awards shows a bit unnecessary. It's art, entertainment, culture, commerce. It's all subjective. It's not a points-driven Olympic sport with judges and referees. I have zero issue with Tony voters nominating Bernadette if they just want to show a beloved, still thriving elder stateswoman of the musical theatre some nomination love -- especially as it very well could be her last major Broadway performance.

Bernadette did the show as a favor to Steve, r297, and wasn't going to be in it for long. I seriously doubt she expected a nomination.

R293 for the Tonys, anything not leading by definition is supporting. There is nothing else— you could have one scene or one song and you are supporting…dem’s da rules.

[quote] Even Patti was much more restrained.

Now THERE'S a sentence you don't hear every day!

For what it’s worth I saw a piece on the recording sessions of Gypsy in which they called out they were returning to the original orchestrations. I’m not a Gypsy expert but just thought I’d throw this into the mix.

[quote]Now THERE'S a sentence you don't hear every day!

I know Patti (sometimes, rightfully) gets shit for being OTT, but... the two times I've seen her on Broadway, she was not. I've seen clips over the years, of course, but my first time seeing her live on Broadway was the Company revival and then, this season with Mia. I had major misgivings about that Company revival, but I thought Patti outclassed everyone in that cast and I was surprised at how much she underplayed things. I figured, with so many years of Joanne under her belt (going back to the Neil Patrick Harris version), she'd either be walking through the role or chewing the scenery by the time I saw her late in the final run. She was doing neither -- not even in Ladies Who Lunch. She was giving an absolutely captivating, surprisingly measured performance and she had such unforced command over the audience.

And, the play with Mia was hardly a masterpiece, but, again, her performance was really nicely calibrated. I expected the play to just be a campy over the top experience, but was also pleasantly surprised.

R286, I would have thought the answer to your question is obvious, but: Yes, the producers and creative team of a revival have to get permission to alter the score (or book) of any show that's not in the public domain, whether that permission comes from the creators (if they are still alive) or their estates/representatives or whoever licenses the shows for performance.

[quote]One shudders to imagine many of the posters here as stage or music directors. Would you just play the Merman bootleg at rehearsals and instruct the Rose to copy it? Does your Rose have to sing every number in Merman's keys?

To repeat, this is a very annoying straw man argument, because NO ONE is suggesting that a performance in a revival should be a carbon copy of the original performance, no matter how iconic. Would you people please stop arguing with an opinion that no one is expressing? Aside from being so annoying, it's a huge waste of time.

Except for Gypsy (and Audra’s incredible performance) and Nicole S’s performance in an otherwise lackluster Sunset Blvd, for me, this has been such a bland season.

I am not excited to see much else, no matter what the reviews.

R312, if those are the ONLY two performance you have admired this season, you must salivate over VERY BIG performances and have no appreciation at all for a more subtle performance style. I'm guessing you don't even bother to see non-musical plays, because they're generally too subtle for you, but if that's case, you're missing a lot of real quality writing and acting.

R313, I’m just saying it was a boring season, plays and all. Yes, even with all the wonderful subtlety

Just FYI I’m the guy that talked about a lack of heart in a couple of posts about DEAD OUTLAW. But I’m not R269, and in fact I liked the acting and thought the score was good, if not first rate.

That's pretty much a repetition of what you posted previously, R314. I disagree, and I think many critics and audiences have been very happy with several of the non-musical plays that opened on Broadway this season.

Wasn't Bernadette long out of Into the Woods by the time the nominations were made? I'm sure it also played into not getting nominated.

And haven't we been all over this before?

[Quote] I disagree, and I think many critics and audiences have been very happy with several of the non-musical plays that opened on Broadway this season

If they can afford the tickets, that is…

“ I’m sorry but I didn’t care for Beth Leavel…..I much preferred Barbara Walsh from 2006.”

Hi, it’s Year 2006 here. I’ve killed Beth Leavel and have teleported the 2006 version of Barbara Walsh to present day. I assume this is what you wanted?

[quote]If they can afford the tickets, that is…

I wasn't thinking of GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD LUCK or OTHELLO when I noted that critics and audiences have been very happy with several of the non-musical play productions this season.

[quote] Jinkx plays Ruth in Pirates, which is a fairly substantial supporting role that's been beefed up a bit for this new version by giving her a song from another Gilbert & Sullivan show.

It really hasn't been that beefed up. In fact, they cut the duet "Oh, False One, You Have Deceived Me" entirely. They also didn't use "It Really Doesn't Matter," which was added (from Ruddigore) to the 1980 Public Theater version. To make up for those losses, Jinkx gets "Alone, and Yet Alive" from The Mikado, which she sings in Act 2 (quite poorly). Like most of the changes, it doesn't work and slows the proceedings down to a crawl.

R321 Thanks for the intel about the Ruth changes. Yeah, watching those clips of Jinkx, she seems really bored by it all. (And, I say that as a fan of hers). It's really a terrible show for her; I know it's been a dream of hers to star on B'way but...I wish she'd waited for a better show. Though I guess if it manages to sell tickets, it'll be good for her long run and hopefully she'll get a better opportunity next time.

I don't really understand this production of Pirates. It seems really stupid. And, cheap.

Was anyone really crying out for a cheaply re-imagined production of Pirates of Penzance?

I don’t know, R303. George Rose won Best Actor in a Musical for playing Doolittle in a revival of My Fair Lady in 1976, after winning the Drama Desk for Featured.

Must’ve been the billing.

R302, and that’s basically what Jesse Green said in his Just In Time review.

As a longtime admirer of the Merrily score, I was surprised how deadly it was on stage when I saw Maria Friedman’s production in the West End, which was pretty basic. Everyone was so unlikeable and one-dimensional, the book is terrible. I thought, the problem with this is there’s no one to root for, which never seemed particularly evident to me from listening to the OBC. It lacked any warmth whatsoever.

The triumph of the NY revival was the casting of Groff and Radcliffe. They’re inherently likeable performers and Groff really endears himself to an audience.

Jonathan Groff has taken a page out of Liza’s playbook and created his own version of The Act.

Don’t be silly, R305. She ORIGINATED the role on Broadway. She recorded the OBC. She even came back and performed the role for the PBS recording of the show.

I was there. It was a snub. But I knew when I saw the show in November 1987 when it opened that Gleason would win the Tony. She was witty and clever and effortlessly musical and there was incredible pathos when she died. It was a terrific production and Peters was wonderful in it. Her transformation was of course great because she genuinely is such a goddess. But I’m sure she knew it was Gleason’s moment.

R317, only by about 7 weeks.

I like Groff onstage, know him casually (and really like him) b,ut haven't hankered for an entire evening of his singing. Hope I'll change my mind if/when I see the show.

Also, Ramin Karimloo isn’t the young Kevin Kline.

Just sayin’.

R328, I like him too but find his singing incredibly boring

As someone who likes Bobby Darin’s singing and has several of his old recordings, I was struck by Jesse Green’s comment in his review of “Just in Time” that Groff has a better, more beautiful voice than Darin had.

But how did Darin intend his songs to be sung? And what was his opinion on pauses?

So the NY Times has a review by Houman Barekat from the Theatre Royal in York, England, of Beckett’s KRAPP’S LAST TAPE, in a production starring and directed by Gary Oldman, with a set designed by Oldman himself.

At 50 bleak minutes, the limited engagement (until May 17) has sold out the 750 seat theater for the run. Barekat gives it a respectful review but seems bemused by the fact that it’s a (relative) commercial success, with a brisk business in signed posters and t-shirts in the lobby.

But the single fact that surprised me in the piece was the news that Gary Oldman lives in Palm Springs. Palm Springs? Gary Oldman? Have any Palm Springs-based DLers spotted Oldman at the supermarket or (more likely) a local liquor store?

Has any NY director been given more opportunities to shine than Scott Ellis and yet consistently produces mediocre to bad work? I guess most of these opportunities have been with the Roundabout but what do they see in him?

[quote]I know it's been a dream of hers to star on B'way but...I wish she'd waited for a better show.

She seems to have been very well received as Mama Morton in CHICAGO on Broadway and as Audrey in LITTLE SHOP Off-Broadway. I can understand her wanting to have a success in a new production of a show on Broadway, but I agree with you, she should have been a little more patient and waited for a more suitable opportunity.

[quote]I don't really understand this production of Pirates. It seems really stupid. And, cheap. Was anyone really crying out for a cheaply re-imagined production of Pirates of Penzance?

No, but aside from everything else, the show is now in the public domain. It's perfect for the Roundabout, which loves to cut corners whenever and wherever they can

[quote]Has any NY director been given more opportunities to shine than Scott Ellis and yet consistently produces mediocre to bad work? I guess most of these opportunities have been with the Roundabout but what do they see in him?

I imagine he works cheaper than some of the others, which again makes him perfect for the Roundabout, with whom he has a long history. Also, he seems to be a nice guy who gets the job done without lots of offstage drama, and those qualities are prized by producers even if the result is artistically lackluster at best.

I stand by my post, r326.

[quote]And haven't we been all over this before?

Yes, r317, we have.

One last time ... these are the people eligible for Best Lead Actor in a Play

Troy Kittles, Home

Cole Escola, Oh, Mary!

Peter Friedman, JOB

Robert Downey Jr., McNeal

Daniel Dae Kim, Yellow Face

Jim Parsons, Our Town

Peter Gallagher, Left on Tenth

Kit Connor, Romeo + Juliet

Harry Lennix, Purpose

Jon Michael Hill, Purpose

Denzel Washington, Othello

Jake Gyllenhaal, Othello

George Clooney, Good Night, and Good Luck

Louis McCartney, Stranger Things: The First Shadow

Officially eligible for Best Lead Actress in a Play:

Sydney Lemmon, JOB

Mia Farrow, The Roommate

Patti LuPone, The Roommate

Laura Donnelly, The Hills of California

Julianna Margulies, Left on Tenth

Rachel Zegler, Romeo + Juliet

LaTanya Richardson Jackson, Purpose

Sarah Snook, The Picture of Dorian Gray

Sadie Sink, John Proctor is the Villain

[quote] Has any NY director been given more opportunities to shine than Scott Ellis and yet consistently produces mediocre to bad work?

I know, right?

Officially eligible for Best Lead Actor in a Musical:

Tom Francis, Sunset Boulevard

James Monroe Iglehart, A Wonderful World

Darren Criss, Maybe Happy Ending

Grey Henson, Elf

John Gallagher Jr., Swept Away

David Cumming, Operation Mincemeat

Nick Jonas, The Last Five Years

Jeremy Jordan, Floyd Collins

Ramin Karimloo, Pirates! The Penzance Musical

David Hyde Pierce, Pirates! The Penzance Musical

Jonathan Groff, Just in Time

Andrew Durand, Dead Outlaw

Officially eligible for Best Lead Actress in a Musical:

Sutton Foster, Once Upon a Mattress

Nicole Scherzinger, Sunset Boulevard

Helen J. Shen, Maybe Happy Ending

Katie Brayben, Tammy Faye

Megan Hilty, Death Becomes Her

Jennifer Simard, Death Becomes Her

Audra McDonald, Gypsy

Idina Menzel, Redwood

Natasha Hodgson, Operation Mincemeat

Jasmine Amy Rogers, BOOP!

Adrienne Warren, The Last Five Years

Robyn Hurder, Smash

Tatianna Cordoba, Real Women Have Curves

Everyone else is considered featured. We'll see how things go on Thursday.

Well who cares, R336? Who the fuck are you supposed to be? You “stand” by your post? O-kay. BP was tipped for a Tony nomination. It didn’t happen. Not sure what makes you an authority here.

Try metamucil.

It looks like Audra may be shut out of a nomination!

And, the ever gracious Bernadette, along with Joel Grey, presented the Best Actress Tony that year to Joanna Gleason. I don't think BP lost any sleep over not being nominated.

My goodness, r342, aren't you a grumpy Gus? LoL, see r317. We've had numerous discussions on this.

[quote] And, the ever gracious Bernadette, along with Joel Grey, presented the Best Actress Tony that year to Joanna Gleason. I don't think BP lost any sleep over not being nominated.

The award that should have been MINE. I was robbed. Everyone knows I deserved it more. Why have I always been victimized by this business?

This is a very lackluster year for the Tonys, save for Lead Actress in a Musical. Wildly, four or five of those eligible this year could have easily beaten last year's most undeserving winner, Maleah Joi Moon. And it's possible one or two of them won't even be nominated this year.

There's No Business Like Show Business!

Mia is funny. A Tony would be lovely after the Academy ignored her all those years while bestowing Oscar after Oscar on Woody.

[quote]As a longtime admirer of the Merrily score, I was surprised how deadly it was on stage when I saw Maria Friedman’s production in the West End, which was pretty basic. Everyone was so unlikeable and one-dimensional, the book is terrible. I thought, the problem with this is there’s no one to root for, which never seemed particularly evident to me from listening to the OBC. It lacked any warmth whatsoever. The triumph of the NY revival was the casting of Groff and Radcliffe. They’re inherently likeable performers and Groff really endears himself to an audience.

R324 - You and I had a VERY similar experience at Merrily. As someone who, also, knew the score, but had never seen a production, I enjoyed the revival for Sondheim's beautiful score and for that very winning trio of stars, but, yes, I agree that the book just doesn't work. It was an interesting concept to musicalize, but going in reverse like that was just THAT... more interesting than moving/involving/captivating. As a small example, I think Not a Day Goes By is one of the most gorgeous songs Sondheim has ever written. I knew it, of course, from the OBCR and from Sondheim tribute concerts over the years. So, when I saw it in the context of the show, I was surprised at how it went over like a lead balloon. I mean, because of the structure of the show, we see that character for maybe 1 minute of a scene for the very first time and then she immediately leaps into that incredibly emotional song. There were zero stakes and instead of it being incredibly moving, it felt silly and histrionic.

I agree, I think deep (and genuine) affection for Sondheim, the excellent cast and the chance to see Sondheim's most notorious flop finally find success perhaps made some audience members gloss over how clunky the show actually is. Still, as fine a revival as I think you could expect and I'm glad I saw it.

R342 seems perpetually unfucked. It might be time to hire someone, dear.

[quote]This is a very lackluster year for the Tonys, save for Lead Actress in a Musical.

You would describe the competition for Lead Actor in a Musical as "lackluster????"

[quote]I think Not a Day Goes By is one of the most gorgeous songs Sondheim has ever written. I knew it, of course, from the OBCR and from Sondheim tribute concerts over the years. So, when I saw it in the context of the show, I was surprised at how it went over like a lead balloon. I mean, because of the structure of the show, we see that character for maybe 1 minute of a scene for the very first time and then she immediately leaps into that incredibly emotional song. There were zero stakes and instead of it being incredibly moving, it felt silly and histrionic.

Maybe this is one reason why, in the original production, that song in its first appearance (in the divorce court scene) was reassigned to Frank at the last minute, and sung by Jim Walton. It's always been said this happened because the creative team soured on the actor who was playing Beth, but I think it's at least partly for the reason you mention: It's virtually impossible for whoever's playing Beth to make any kind of an impression with that number after we've just met her in a very brief scene in which she's very unhappy and unpleasant. So although handing the song to Frank instead of Beth robs her of her major musical moment, and Frank certainly has more than enough good songs to sing without it, I think a strong argument can be made that it should remain Frank's song.

[quote]Has any NY director been given more opportunities to shine than Scott Ellis and yet consistently produces mediocre to bad work?

Ooooh…me! Me! Me!

^^OMG hanging my head in shame. I meant “Rob ASHFORD!”

R352 in the first revisal in San Diego, the actress playing Beth was Marin Mazzie, so because of her strong voice, it didn’t matter that you didn’t care about Beth, it was more about a beautiful song sung well!

[quote] a small example, I think Not a Day Goes By is one of the most gorgeous songs Sondheim has ever written. I knew it, of course, from the OBCR and from Sondheim tribute concerts over the years. So, when I saw it in the context of the show, I was surprised at how it went over like a lead balloon. I mean, because of the structure of the show, we see that character for maybe 1 minute of a scene for the very first time and then she immediately leaps into that incredibly emotional song.

Except that it brilliantly pays off when Mary sings it in act 2.

Gypsy extends until October 5

Is there any chance whatsoever that this won't result in a series of boringly repetitive posts?

I admire their tenacity.

Grosses are out. Closing notices coming soon for Boop and Real Women Have Curves? Dead Outlaw better pray the reviews increase traffic.

“Smash” isn’t doing so hot.

Whereas Jonathan Groff is raking in the dough at over $900,000 last week, which must confound the naysayers here.

[quote]Is there any chance whatsoever that this won't result in a series of boringly repetitive posts?

Well, you've provided the perfect opening for that....

Anyway, do we have any reason to believe the box office take will increase enough to allow the show to actually run into October? I suppose they're counting on Tony nominations for a bump, but I'm not sure those noms will make a difference in this case as they would with a new musical. Obviously, both GYPSY and Audra are well known commodities, so people should have already decided whether they want to see the show or not regardless of the number of noms.

Good Night and Good Luck is making more money on Broadway than it did in theaters.

It will be interesting to see how the summer plays out with fewer tourists.

I thought Lily Rabe gave a fine performance in GHOSTS but she seems not to be eligible for a Tony nomination.

Is that because the Mitzi Newhouse theater has too few seats?

R362 Would you pay $900 for a movie ticket?

Yes, the Newhouse is considered an off-Broadway house. If Ghosts was eligible for Tonys, Lily Rabe would be front-runner for Best Actress.

Am I the only one here who finds Ramin physically unappealing in that cheap Pirates revival?

I'm with you, R367. His face looks a big haggard, plus I'm a tattoo hater, so there's that. Nice, muscular chest and arms, though.

As for "Not a Day Goes By" in Merrily, how would one explain the great emotional appeal the song has on the OBC (even for listeners who've never seen the show) when there's virtually no context for it dramatically?

That might suggest the song doesn't necessarily need a character singing it in whom the audience has become particularly invested, just a powerhouse performer to put it over.

It’s also the point of the show. You see a character at their low point, and then you slowly discover what brought them to that point. This happens in life all the time, and it’s one of Merrily’s strengths to dramatize those discoveries.

Good point, R370. And if Liz Callaway had been cast as Beth originally, I'm sure the song would have stayed with Beth and no one would have suggested it be handed to Frank instead.

How long is Audra committed to Gypsy?

Maybe they extended to October because she's gonna leave and they'll bring in a new Name that actually sells tickets to play Rose?

Or, they're counting on her to win yet another Tony she doesn't deserve and that will magically goose sales out of the 70% gutter.

R372 I think the extension is a gimmick, a sad marketing ploy to make it sound more interesting to TONY voters. Given the current BO, there is nothing that suggests that more people want to see the show.

I thought Nicole absolutely played Norma intended. The design and staging is different but she’s playing the character in a pretty straightforward way.

R236- each actress would naturally bring their own essence to the role without pushing.

R260- he’s done a streaming show. He wants to perform on stage. Good for him.

The Tony lead category for acting used to be called “Best Performance by a Broadway Star.” That is why the other category was called “featured,” not supporting.

R301- revues.

R306- There is no category for supporting

R321- how bizarre. “Oh False One” includes a lot of exposition needed for telling the story.

R324- theater isn’t a sport. Why do you need someone to root for? I mean, Rose is the lead in Gypsy but I wouldn’t say the audience roots for her.

Why isn’t Christian Borle ineligible for Best Actor in a musical?

How do people not understand Not A Day Goes By in Merrily?The whole point is to watch/hear this big emotional song and then yearn to know “how did we get to be here”? It’s the whole point of the fucking show and I find it fascinating and even more emotional as we power forward to the final/first song. I cry when they sing Our Time.

R360- Yep. I officially win that argument. People said Groff isn’t a name that sells at the box office. I explained his TV, film, and stage credits but people wouldn’t listen.

as intended

r374

I wonder if Gypsy and this production of Sunset will tour.

Gypsy won't tour.

Not a hit.

Needs some sort of name for a tour and no one wants to tour anymore.

All those kids are an expensive pain to schlep around.

R311, don't be disingenuous. It's annoying, and it wastes time.

Any number of people have suggested (here and elsewhere) that there is ONE and ONLY ONE way to do certain lines. For example: "It's really annoying when you go to famous works with iconic lines and moments made famous by (probably) the original actor and the current actor chooses some bizaare interpretation of that iconic line so they're seen as original and 'not copying'. And, 99 times out of a hundred, that stupid actor has just destroyed the line and the moment because the original brilliant choice WAS the correct, best choice! And, probably the one the author intended."

It was that kind of exaggeration coupled with fundamentalism coupled with immense presumption that my post was intended to slap silly.

It will be interesting to see how long the good box office for the stupidly named Just in Time and the bargain basement Pirates will last.

JIT has the advantages of a well liked star with a fanbase and a small house.

Pirates has 3 well liked stars and appears super cheap.

As Roundabout still has non-profit status I would think they'd be thrilled just to have the show make its weekly nut for the summer months and then close it in September to usher in the reign of the mediocrity known as Christopher Ashley. It will be interesting to see if he hires Scott Ellis for future projects.

Oh wait, isn't Ellis already lined up to direct those two sophisticated comic powerhouses Kelli O'Hara and Rose Byrne in Noel Coward's Fallen Angels next season?

I'm puzzled why so many of you seem to think a well-reviewed juke box musical about Bobby Darin starring a true Broadway leading man would have any trouble scoring big profits for at least as long as Groff sticks with it. The show seems tailor-made for the millions of fans who loved Jersey Boys and Beautiful. Once again, it's one of those Broadway musicals for people who don't like Broadway musicals. And a musical for your husband to enjoy.

[quote] [R321]- how bizarre. “Oh False One” includes a lot of exposition needed for telling the story.

I think you might be thinking of "When Frederic Was a Little Lad," which carries a lot of exposition? That is still in.

The other cuts include "What Ought We to Do?"/"How Beautifully Blue the Sky," a good chunk of the Act One Finale (which has been replaced by a rewrite of"We Sail the Ocean Blue" from HMS Pinafore), "No, I Am Brave," (which had one of my favorite sight gags in the Public version, where Linda Ronstadt was inches away from the Police Sergeant, and sings, "Sergeant, approach!") and I think "Sighing Softly to the River" was dropped (I don't recall hearing it), with an Act 2 finale rewrite of "He Is An Englishman" from HMS Pinafore interpolated, to include a heavy-handed message about immigration. The one addition that I enjoyed was the "Nightmare Song" from Iolanthe (aka "Love, Unrequited, Robs Me of My Rest"), which David Hyde Pierce sings, delightfully, to open Act 2. Pinafore's "Sorry Her Lot," added for Ronstadt, is not used. The songs that do remain from the original Pirates score are also heavily revised, many with new lyrics. "With Cat-Like Tread," which is fortunately left almost completely alone, save for a new meta verse about how the chorus is the same as "Hail, Hail the Gang's All Here," scored the biggest response of the night. In the spirit of things like The Hot Mikado and other Broadway jazz treatments of Gilbert & Sullivan, this New Orleans-set Pirates! is not a bad idea, and it's also not impossible to sit through (unlike say, Smash or Redwood), but I thought it took a show that needs to be fast, stupid fun with an effervescent score, and slowed it down to a point where I grew restless waiting for the plot to go through its machinations.

Paragraphs are your friend, r383.

Remember all those posts about “Audra is ruining her voice!”

Her voice seems just fine

Speaking of ruining voices, on YouTube you can now see the full Take Me or Leave Me from the pre-Broadway Rent in 1996. Idina Menzel's performance is so fresh and her reactions to Joanne so off-beat that it's far and away my favorite version. But the song is a fight, and a few times she shout-sings in a way that is consistent with the rock quality the show requires, but that does sound like a lot of vocal stress. Then there is another clip of her doing the same song 10 years later for a Rent reunion. In the interim she's been in Wicked, and the difference in her voice is significant--she can now sing the shouty bits just as well as the rest of it. So, meh, after presumably some years of doing it wrong she didn't destroy her voice, she just found out how to do it right.

No doubt Audra, with all her training and years of experience, already knows how far she can push it.

There were no reports of Julie Andrews ruining (or damaging) her voice during the run of Victor, Victoria.

R382 I'm not hugely surprised by JIT's success but it's largely due to Groff. If JIT had some minor name attached instead of Groff, I don't think it would have the same kind of box office.

Darin isn't totally comparable to the Four Seasons and Jersey Boys. He died very young and he had a pretty small span of hit years. If JIT is a musical for your husband who doesn't like musicals, then your husband would have to be in his 70s or 80s.

Jersey Boys is now 20 years old. A lot of the fans of the Four Seasons who helped make it a hit are now dead. If Jersey Boys debuted today, I'm not sure it would have the same level of success without a name attached...despite its terrific juke box score.

[Quote] There were no reports of Julie Andrews ruining (or damaging) her voice during the run of Victor, Victoria.

Because her high notes were recorded

Andrews was already struggling vocally before the show opened. You can hear the damage on recordings. And I saw her pre-Broadway and heard it firsthand.

[quote]I don’t know, [R303]. George Rose won Best Actor in a Musical for playing Doolittle in a revival of My Fair Lady in 1976, after winning the Drama Desk for Featured.

I always found George Rose underwhelming, including in "My Fair Lady," although I was pretty young when I saw it.

[Quote] Andrews was already struggling vocally before the show opened. You can hear the damage on recordings. And I saw her pre-Broadway and heard it firsthand.

It’s unclear if the show caused the damage or if it just exacerbated where her voice was headed anyway. She ultimately had nodes and had a catastrophic surgery that pretty much ended any more singing

George Rose turned down a supporting Tony nomination for My Fat Friend because his was a leading role then ends up winning a best actor Tony for his supporting role in My Fair Lady. That's always been a head scratcher.

[quote]I always found George Rose underwhelming

He was wonderful in Drood. That entire original cast was pretty wonderful.

Gold Derby chooses Tony Nominees.

NYT’s Jesse Green lists his choices for Tony nominations.

SHOCKER! Nicole S didn’t make his Best Actress in a Musical list!!!

Another huge and horrendous cut in the new PIRATES is the first verse of "Oh, Is There Not One Maiden Breast," a cut that renders the song nonsensical. As written, Frederic first extols the beauty of the maidens, but when they resist him, he turns the tables on them by jokingly asking if anyone among them with a "homely face and bad complexion" might love him. Without the first verse, there is no comic turnaround, and the whole thing falls flat because it makes no sense at all.

[quote]It’s unclear if the show caused the damage or if it just exacerbated where her voice was headed anyway.

If you listen to the recordings Julie Andrews made in the years prior to doing VICTOR/VICTORIA on stage, it's clear that her voice was already in very poor condition, I assume due mostly to the natural aging process.

[quote]I'm not hugely surprised by JIT's success but it's largely due to Groff. If JIT had some minor name attached instead of Groff, I don't think it would have the same kind of box office.

Thank you, Captain Obvious. JERSEY BOYS was a completely different situation, not comparable.

[quote]Any number of people have suggested (here and elsewhere) that there is ONE and ONLY ONE way to do certain lines.

Because there IS only one way to say CERTAIN lines, especially laugh lines. To give one example: In A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC, there's the moment where Fredrik introduces his wife Anne to Desiree, then Desiree introduces Fredrika to them both by saying, "And this is my daughter." Except the line has to be delivered as "And this is MY daughter" in order to get the laugh it deserves, because Desiree's making a joke on how very young Anne is. I have seen at least one production of the show where neither the Desiree nor her director understood this, so the actress said the line without stressing the word MY, and a wonderful laugh was lost.

I could give dozens more examples, but I don't have time for that and of course it would be overkill, so I hope I've made my point. BUT saying that SOME lines, especially laugh lines, in shows need to be delivered a certain way is still not the same as saying that anyone wants performances in revivals to be carbon copies of the originals. Again, it's a straw man argument, and I'm not being disingenuous.

Does anyone else think that Oh, Mary! is completely over-hyped? Best Play? Really?

[quote]If JIT had some minor name attached instead of Groff, I don't think it would have the same kind of box office.ney,"

Not to be confused with "Jitney," by August Wilson.

Does anyone think Cromer will get double directing noms on Thursday?

"Does anyone else think that Oh, Mary! is completely over-hyped? Best Play? Really?"

It is a sitcom script, stretched out to 90 minutes or so.

Did anyone see Betty Gilpin in Oh, Mary!? I love her. Or all three? Can anyone make comparisons?

One was white, one was black, one was butch.

I'm amused by remembering years ago when many on DL predicting a short and lackluster career for Groff. (Or a fate that included OnlyFans,) Ha! He's had a series of successes in almost all the media that most of his age would envy. I'm happy for him, even if he does risk becoming too full of himself.

Really? When did he become a movie star? Or a Tim Tok legend? Or a podcast leader? Or drop a summer hit?

That’s the media people his age envy.

But, R400, Desiree could say “this is my DAUGHTER” and still get the laugh.

r407 Given OnlyFans launched in 2016 - by which point Groff was not only well established but had done Frozen, Hamilton and Looking - I doubt your story

Though if he had done OnlyFans, the words short and lacklustre might well have popped up

I always mix up Pirates of Penzance with HMS Pinafore.

Which one has the cute song about Buttercup and which one hinges on someone being born on Leap Day?

Pinafore is Buttercup, Pirates is Leap Year.

R400, you exceeded overkill about 100 posts ago.

Aren't the Drama Desk award nominations today (4/30)?

Thinking Groff's number from JIT on Colbert last night must have sold a ton of tickets. It was perfect. It's going to run as long as he's willing to do it.

I loved that performance on Colbert and would love to see Just In Time.

Maybe he’ll win the Tony?

“JIT” is also something that Ken Jennings tries to makes happen during the Jeopardy Invitational Tournament.