The “Work” Offered to Aging Female Oscar Winners

You forgot G.

G is not an "aging female Oscar Winner"

Because Meryl Streep grabs all the 55+ roles.

As I have said about every actress who complains about this: you have the money and you have the connections. If it’s not working for you, then YOU need to work it. Jane Fonda whining because she’ll never work again? You’re a nepo baby. Help yourself by figuring it out.

One reason is, i think, an absolute lack of serious films, with roles for older women (and men). Movie making in Hollywood is increasingly formulaic and risk free, just remakes and action movies. There is a couple of prestige projects that escape this, mostly for Oscar season, but they are rare which means the roles for older women is rarer still.

And even then, You only have to look of some of the trash that is now being nominated to best picture to see this tendency.

I don’t begrudge older women who want to work being part of this, as otherwise they wouldn’t be able to do anything.

Doesn't it depend on the actress? Meryl, Sigourney, Frances, Helen Mirren and Isabelle Huppert are more dignified and are not going to do some crappy comedy about seniors at a camp with fart jokes.

Whereas the others have no shame (including Jane) and will do anything low-level and commercial to make a buck.

The same thing happened to Hollywood that is happening to the news media. Giant corporations have bought up businesses that used to be owned by people who had a love for the movies (or journalism). Now they are revenue cogs run by strangers.

First you're another sloe-eyed vamp, Then someone's mother, Then you're camp!

There is no reasonable construct for "nepo hag" that is convincing, R4. Although you're funny.

Actors act. And most are not in a position to push their dream scripts, if they have any. Even the ones with enough sway and determination to secure films don't do it for long periods of time. Or with lasting success.

Burt Lancaster, Kevin Costner, Mel "Sugar Tits" Gibson, Orson Welles, and Barbra Streisand are a few examples.

Brad Pitt, Will Smith, Drew Barrymore, Sandra Bullock, Reese Witherspoon, Adam Sandler, George Clooney, and Viola Davis now have production companies. Are you overwhelmed by their results? Sandler has sustained the most success, for Jebus' sake.

There are always the witch and evil stepmother roles in Disney's latest CGI remake of one of its films!

One of Diane's pre production films "Constance" had director Mark Pellington attached- he is not A list, but a solid director who does well with suspense/thrillers which is what this one was. It sounds like it has potential and I wonder if it will get made- It requires an aging/elederly woman-

He directed the Laura Linney/Richard Gere Mothman Prophecies-

[quote]Because Meryl Streep grabs all the 55+ roles.

This was probably the case 15-20 years ago, but Meryl hasn't released a film since 2021, and her next movie is a sequel to The Devil Wears Prada, which never was going to go to anyone but her. She's not taking roles from Glenn and Sigourney anymore. The roles just aren't there for women in their late seventies, and never really have been.

I don't expect her to start doing crap like 80 for Brady, but the truth is that we will probably never see another great Meryl Streep performance again.

R12=Glen Close

Someone needs to do a parody movie called "The Purple Ladies' Wine 'n' Book Club at the Tuscany Big Fat Wedding" and shoehorn every aging actress into it.

You're an idiot, R13, and it's not just because you can't spell.

It’s not limited to female stars. Al Pacino and Robert deniro have taken a lot of forgettable things in the last 20 or so years. John Wayne was similar in the later part of his career.

[quote]we will probably never see another great Meryl Streep performance again.

Some of us are still waiting for the first.

Meryl is in her own category which clearly drives jealousy. She will be A+ list for as long as she wants to work.

Remember when Anjelica Huston set off a firestorm by stating she didn’t want to do film at all if the options were shit like Poms?

Nice R19- Angelica was right. No shade against Diane who I love even more than Angelica. But she was right and I admire her honesty.

Pay their bills, live their lives, OP.

Keaton was the best part of The Young Pope in 2016.

I wish she had done more television. She would have been terrific as a Law and Order prosecutor.

Would The Substance be considered a throwback to the golden age of hag horror?

I don't know, r23. Demi isn't a hag and had to be made up like one.

Stick your ugly head up up my taut and toned Gucci covered ass, Mickey!

And I HATE your name.

AND I HATE YOU!!!!

You beast.

I liked Book Club (the first one, at least).

In the hilarious comedy “Horny Cats,” Jane Fonda, Dyan Cannon, Liza Minelli, and Candice Bergen star as four lifelong friends who embark on a wild 10-day cruise for single seniors. Their mission? To find love and a bit of mischievous fun. Jane Fonda delivers a memorable performance, including a cheeky nude scene where she boldly bares her breasts to seduce the charismatic Michael Caine, playing a wealthy retiree in a wheelchair. Get ready for laughter, love, and a dash of daring escapades!

They can't stand not working. It takes a strong person to walk away from the business, and pursue other goals in life.

I remember when Glenda Jackson quit to become a politician saying, "I can't just play the Nurse in Romeo and Juliet for the rest of my life" (or words to that effect).

Yet she came back and to great acclaim, r28.

There’s always Harry Potter . . .

[quote]Meryl is in her own category which clearly drives jealousy. She will be A+ list for as long as she wants to work.

Meryl will be considered one of the greatest actors ever for the rest of her life, and probably beyond. But that won't make her A+ list forever, at least in the way that it matters. Great roles for people as they reach their eighties are rare, and eventually her best roles will be character parts.

Meryl has already played Aunt March (a part Hepburn famously turned down). She's almost to that point already.

Young people go to movies far more than older people do. What are the kinds of projects starring old people that younger people would want to see?

[quote]What are the kinds of projects starring old people that younger people would want to see?

June Squibb's 40-Load Weekend.

Jessica Tandy had several good roles later in life. The opportunities are there if you’re good!

And HBO

“I want her to know it was me.”

I always think many people have a strange idea of what being an Oscar winner means... they seem to think if you get an Oscar, you're somehow like a "made man" in the Mafia, and you should be guaranteed good work for the entire rest of your career.

That's just never, ever been how it works.

[quote]they seem to think if you get an Oscar, you're somehow like a "made man" in the Mafia, and you should be guaranteed good work for the entire rest of your career.

Would you like fries with that?

They may not all be Oscar winners but Jennifer Lopez, Aniston, Bullock, Witherspoon, Kidman are still playing single women living in the city or mothers to toddlers or teens when they’re all old enough to play grandmothers.

So there’s lots of roles.

You must be talking about 70-80+ year olds.

[quote]why do these solid actresses, who need neither the money nor the humiliation, do it?

Not all of these women want to be JLo pretending to be a 60 year old hooker or Nicole Kidman pretending she’s a kindergarten mother.

I think these Oscar winning actresses pretty much play themselves and that works when they're the lead. The film is often a vehicle for them. So of they are then a supporting player they are too well known to disappear into that character.

[quote]Diane Keaton’s death brings to mind the dear woman’s later filmography

Good fucking Lord. A gen-u-wine sob sister.

There aren't that many good roles for women over 60, they take what they can get. Remember all the "hag horror" films?

r39 it looks ridiculous. Nicole Kidman was playing the mother of a five year old in that HBO thing she did a while back, and the kid was supposed to be her biological child. Currently on The Morning Show, Reese Witherspoon is playing a character who should be 20 years younger than she actually is.

There are tons of older actresses who get great work. The trouble for Diane is that she had no range. She always played Diane Keaton.

[quote]Young people go to movies far more than older people do.

No one goes to movie theaters anymore, babe.

It’s true that older actors are expected to play the old hits. If they did a completely new character, audiences don’t absorb it as easily. I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing because audiences just want a good movie.

Unfortunately the mainstream films for elders like 80 for Brady are hideous.

Meryl and Sigourney (who is having a renaissance) have Ripley and Miranda, who are great characters.

I would love to see Sigourney play Ripley one more time. She's in amazing shape for her age, she could still do it.

Helen Mirren...I remember about 15 years ago when she made a TV ad for Wii Fit. She got $250,000 for that.

I LOVED the Wii Fit.

[quote]I would love to see Sigourney play Ripley one more time. She's in amazing shape for her age, she could still do it.

She most likely is. She just talked about it last week. She’s had meetings with Disney for it.

[quote] I think these Oscar winning actresses pretty much play themselves and that works when they're the lead. The film is often a vehicle for them. So of they are then a supporting player they are too well known to disappear into that character.

It's easier when they're actually trained actresses who can play a wide range of parts, like Meryl Streep and Glenn Close and Maggie Smith. It's harder when they're mostly famous for just playing one persona, like Julia Roberts.

Most of Meryl's work doesn't have legs.

Prada and Death Becomes Her are the two that have become most remembered by the general public. But her heavy hitting stuff like Sophie's Choice, Silkwood, Out of Africa, French Lieutenants Women, Bridges of Madison County have been largely forgotten.

Dunaway, Keaton and Fonda have resonated with the public in a much more personable way. With Meryl, it's like you're constantly being told how great she is.

It’s true. Common folk look at Faye Dunaway and see themselves reflected as if she were kin.

[quote]Dunaway, Keaton and Fonda have resonated with the public in a much more personable way.

Faye Dunaway has resonated with the public in a personable way?

Faye Dunaway. Personable.

Amazing.

R28 plus Glenda Jackson went back to the theater after her self imposed political exile to do Albee and Shakespeare, winning a Tony and another Emmy for a British film as a woman suffering from Alzheimer’s. She would not have been caught dead doing some of the dreck Keaton, Fonda and Field have done. There’s work for actress’s in all mediums in the 80ish age range, but you have to go where the quality work is. Not a few actresses focus on the theater instead. Helen Mirren has seem to overcome this, and by and large doesn’t do crap.

[quote]Faye Dunaway has resonated with the public in a personable way?

Mommie Dearest is a beloved classic in the gay community. Constantly quoted, constantly performed in drag shows. People will be dressing up as Faye's interpretation of Bonnie Parker for Halloween or the latest model will be synthesizing shades of it for the next photo shoot.

No one's doing Kramer vs. Kramer drag shows or wearing Florence Foster Jenkins costumes this year.

I know this is supposed to be a gay site, but with the hetero housewife bent some of these threads take, I'm starting to think it's becoming more I Village by the day.

[quote]R5 One reason is, i think, an absolute lack of serious films, with roles for older women (and men).

Agreed.

I did notice that LET THEM ALL TALK had some good roles for older actresses. It was a pleasure to watch them.

[quote]Dunaway, Keaton and Fonda have resonated with the public

Nice try, Faye. Meryl is hip with kids. No one remembers Dunaway. Fonda is a joke known for a Netflix series and Diane’s obituaries label her the woman from “The First Wives Club.”

Helen Sharp is out of the loony bin.

[quote]Meryl is hip with kids.

And Gloria Estefan is huge with the under 30 crowd as well!

I think it’s fair to say all ages know her because of her movies and years of being in the public.

I’m enjoying committee work and am copying down your ideas.

R55 seriously believes that because there are still elderly drag queens in Palm Springs who dust off their "Don't Fuck With Me, Fellas!" routine they've been doing for decades, this means that Faye Dunaway is beloved, even more than Meryl Streep. That doesn't make her beloved, that makes her a camp figure.

Dunaway still garners some respect from those who remember her because she starred in three undeniable classics, but her persona on screen was always cold as ice and her persona off screen was that of a holy terror who should be avoided at all costs. Those aren't characteristics of someone who resonates in a personable way.

It isn't straight women who think this way, it's anyone who has an ounce of common sense. If Dunaway were that beloved by the public, she wouldn't have been relegated to little-known, low-budget productions decades ago. (The star of her next one? Kevin Spacey).

If you're a stage actress like Jessica Tandy, you can go back to the stage where there are heaps of good roles in the canon for women aged 55-to-death, and where actors of both genders of that age are respected. If a good movie role comes up you can take it, but you can reject boring frau stuff because you've got better things to do.

That's why all those British dames are still cropping up in (largely good) movies almost to the end of their lives. The UK and Ireland also do seem to make a lot of smaller, quality films and series that feature older women in leading or prominent roles.

[quote] If you're a stage actress like Jessica Tandy, you can go back to the stage where there are heaps of good roles in the canon for women aged 55-to-death, and where actors of both genders of that age are respected.

There's just not nearly as much theater work in the US the way there used to be in Jessica Tandy's day.

[quote] She always played Diane Keaton.

So very wrong.

I think older women take these crummy roles because they love the work, no matter how trifling the project. We know Keaton had other interests and didn't need the money, it seems reasonable to assume she continued to act because she loved doing it.

I. Am being BLAKCL ISTED from Hollywood because of my AGE and THE BELLS!

I agree, r12. The longest Meryl ever went between nominations was 5 years until recently. She hasn’t been nominated since 2017.

Meryl’s in her late 70s and has three Oscars. She isn’t trying to give the performance of a lifetime at this point. She’s doing projects that she thinks are interesting to keep her occupied and to stay connected with people she likes working with.

You know Meryl would roll naked through a pool of mustard to get another win.

France’s McDormand ties Hepburn with the most Oscar’s for an actress and bests Meryl with Best Actress trophies.

I wish Meryl would get more politically active. Her acceptance speeches where she trashed Dump were some of her best work.

Sarah Lancashire was a much better Julia Child than Meryl, who wanted to ensure that beings on Jupiter could see her performance.

France seems to value aging actresses more than other countries. Good example is Francois Ozon's latest film, WHEN AUTUMN COMES, with lead roles for Josiane Balasko (aged 74) and Hélène Vincent (aged 81).

But then, the French still like to see movies that aren't predictable franchise superhero blockbusters.

[quote]Good example is Francois Ozon's latest film, WHEN AUTUMN COMES

I think you mean When Fall Is Coming

It’s nice gay men have interest in elder actresses, when in reality they have no elderly female friends.

What are you talking about?

[quote]You know Meryl would roll naked through a pool of mustard to get another win.

Shut up! That's MY next movie!

Meryl did too many biopics. She played everybody but the Virgin Mary and Lassie.

[quote] Keaton was the best part of The Young Pope in 2016.

I did a rewatch of that back in May around the time of the conclave and during the rewatch, I felt she was the best part of it.

I’m hoping the Meryl-Sigourney film gets made, because the press tour will be legendary. Plus they are the two best film actresses IMHO. They have so many great films.

[quote] the Virgin Mary and Lassie

Porn please.

The film industry is an artistic enterprise but it's first a BUSINESS. The profits from one film help support the artistic endeavors that rarely see huge box office.

People want entertainment to escape their lives - light hearted, funny, touching. Stuff that makes you feel good.

Aging female actresses ALWAYS complain about the work over the age of 40 or 50 - but they NEVER mention how much work they got over other actresses when they were young because they were hot and sexy.

It's not a fair world and there is no conspiracy. You want to work - there's PLENTY of work in theater and TV. But no - you HAVE to do FILMS because you're a STAH!

That's the problem - they want only the prestige product (film) and be special. It's not about work - it's about their ego 99% of the time.

[quote]I’m hoping the Meryl-Sigourney film gets made, because the press tour will be legendary. Plus they are the two best film actresses IMHO. They have so many great films.

Would the James Kirkwood estate allow a movie version of Legends?

Even Julia is DOA

The freefall of auteur driven sophisticated cinema this fall at the box office in the wake of pics by Derek Cianfrance, Darren Aronofsky, Ronan Day-Lewis, Benny Safdie and Kogonada continues with Luca Guadagnino’s After the Hunt which in its weekend 2 expansion from six NYC to LA theaters to 1,238 theaters isn’t wowing with a $1,2K theater average and $1.6M second frame.

The domestic box office gross endgame for this Amazon MGM Studios movie is $5M and God knows, it didn’t cost that much to produce with Julia Roberts and Andrew Garfield starring.

At 38% on Rotten Tomatoes with critics, and 35% with audiences, nobody is buying this psychological thriller about sexual politics at the university level.

As always, Amazon can absorb the cost in a way that other motion pictures distributors cannot with a parachute for this film on Prime Video.

[quote] It's not a fair world and there is no conspiracy. You want to work - there's PLENTY of work in theater and TV. But no - you HAVE to do FILMS because you're a STAH!

[quote] That's the problem - they want only the prestige product (film) and be special. It's not about work - it's about their ego 99% of the time.

I agree very much with you.

I respect Jessica Lange quite a bit for taking roles in Ryan Murphy's projects in old age because his writers genuinely wrote very good roles for her which allowed her to shine. She did not treat the parts, even though they were in television miniseries, as if they were beneath her.

R83 - totally agree. Maggie Smith was also up for anything.

There are between 200 and 300 Hollywood films made each year - take away action, cartoons, horror, teen flicks, superhero films - and there's not a ton left for a mature actor of either gender.

Limited series is so much more satisfying - gives the director enough time to develop the characters and plot instead of having to edit a grand idea down to 120 mins or less.

Sometimes you need to find a lovely, suspenseful television series to do. It pays well and barely have to work.

In the '80s, Jane, Diane, Meryl, Sissy, Jessica, Glenn, Sally, Kathleen, Sigourney, Susan, Jodie, Goldie, etc., had their pick of roles because the studios were creating movies for women and about women. Those types of movies have migrated to cable television and the big studios are more interested in blockbuster films than non-profitable women's pictures.

Now that all those women are seniors (save the departed Diane), if they wish to continue to work, they need to check their egos at the door and tackle character parts or roles that aren't the leads. Their time has come and gone.

R86 - yes - and it's not like they would be regulated to guest star status on The Love Boat like in previous generations.

The difference is between stars and actors. The people who like to act, work. The people who like to be stars have a tough time of it eventually.

Many actors just want to be stars - but none of them admit it.

[quote]The difference is between stars and actors. The people who like to act, work. The people who like to be stars have a tough time of it eventually.

I think people like Meryl and Sigourney and Glenn are ones who want to work. They’ve never really embraced the “star” aspect of the business, although they enjoy the benefits of it.

R85 and alleged sexual assaulters will kiss your hand daily!

When you consider how few actresses, talented and otherwise, get cast for a part at any time in their careers and how much getting a foot in the door in showbusiness has to do with any number of circumstances which have nothing to do with talent (i.e. family connections, school connections, friends etc.) any notion of "unfairness" in terms of anything related to showbusiness is absolutely ludicrous. Elder actresses complaining about the paucity of roles for women their age must be completely oblivous to the fact that they are already among the .000000001% of the population of actresses who have been able to make a living as an actual actress.

[quote]Even Julia is DOA

Julia hasn't been bankable since the early 2000's. She has coasted on her 90's status for ages now. She's racked up plenty of flops.

[quote]I think people like Meryl and Sigourney and Glenn are ones who want to work. They’ve never really embraced the “star” aspect of the business, although they enjoy the benefits of it.

Meryl loves being the deity of her industry. Don't kid yourself that she doesn't.

[quote]Julia hasn't been bankable since the early 2000's. She has coasted on her 90's status for ages now. She's racked up plenty of flops.

Meryl’s been coasting on her ‘80s performances for decades as well.

[quote]Meryl loves being the deity of her industry. Don't kid yourself that she doesn't.

I’m sure she enjoys that status. But she didn’t seek it out. She has decades of acclaimed performances that brought her that status. She’s not JHo who’s 60 years old and desperate to be taken seriously despite flop after flop after flop.

[quote]But she didn’t seek it out.

She hired a publicist after graduating from Yale.

There are actresses who don't have publicists.

Bette Davis jumped right into tv movies in her old age and did some good ones.

[quote]There are actresses who don't have publicists.

Name them.

Angelina Jolie

Judy Davis

Jane Curtin

Karen Allen

Charlotte Rampling

Meryl has always played the game of pretending to be above the superficial level of fame, but you don't get the kind of coverage she does without PR. Jane Alexander called her out on it when Meryl first started and tried to act like it was a fluke that she got the cover of Time Magazine. She loves the attention.

Jamie Lee is another one that plays the same game.

R90 - that is particularly true for the 'beauty' actresses. I would say Meryl and Glenn and Kathy Bates are character actors who have such a wider appeal.

I remember Diane Lane bitching and moaning about lack of roles for women over 40 - and she's definitely one of the beauty actresses I'm talking about. They hit a wall with their age then they bitch that they're only casting younger actresses - when THEY were the younger actresses being cast because of their looks a few years ago. Mariska Hargitay is on this full-bore publicity machine to get ANYTHING other than her 25 year role and law & order - but it ain't happening.

There's so much ego - I can pretend to be this person better than everyone ELSE can pretend to be this person. There are only so many actors who really bring something extra to the role - and those work non-stop if they want.

Meryl’s ability to do accents is what set her apart early on. She had a skillset that her peers did not. It’s simple.

No one gives a fuck about her stupid accents.

Get your tongue out of her ass.

R101, your insults are so tired. Does it give you life to constantly bash Meryl Streep, of all people? I hope you are getting enough sleep, eating well, and getting outside.

R96, Laurie Metcalf doesn’t have a publicist (now there is an actress who truly couldn’t care less about fame), and still gets good roles on stage and television because of her reputation, but I do think it’s a major reason why she doesn’t work more in film (unlike say, her peers Allison Janney and Ann Dowd).

Metcalf also was and remains much more a "theater first"/"theater bred" actress than Janney or Dowd, good as both have been onstage.

R98, In 1981, with two Oscar nominations under her belt (and 1 win for "Kramer vs Kramer"), an Emmy win for "Holocaust," and a Tony nom for "27 Wagons Full of Cotton," Meryl landed the covers of Time, Life, and Rolling Stone magazines, with Life hailing her as "America's Best Actress." "The French Lieutenant's Woman" had yet to be released, and "Sophie's Choice" was still a year away, but her PR machine was working overtime to convince us that she was the greatest.

I like Meryl, but the fake humility is laughable.

And I'm calling bullshit on the tired canard (perpetuated here by R3) that "Meryl gobbles up all the good roles." Leaving out 1-scene turns like EVENING and SUFFRAGETTE, I've listed her films from the last 25 years or so. How many of these support that idiotic statement?

In 2002, she had ADAPTATION and THE HOURS. 2004 brought supporting parts in A SERIES OF UNFORTUNATE EVENTS and THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE. 2005 brought PRIME. 2006, A PRAIRIE HOME COMPANION and THE DEVIL WEARS PRADA. 2007, supporting parts in DARK MATTER, EVENING, RENDITION and LIONS FOR LAMBS. Did she work a lot? Sure. But how many of those roles were first-rate leading lady ones? I'd say maybe 2.

In 2008, she suddenly became a bankable star with the massive success of MAMMA MIA!, and she also released DOUBT. The latter, I'm guessing, is one of two -- count 'em, two -- roles Streep got over the past 25 years that her detractors have in mind when they screech about her grabbing "all the good parts."

2009 brought IT'S COMPLICATED (a lead, but hardly one everyone else was dying to play) and JULIE AND JULIA (which Ephron probably wrote for her, and in which she was wonderful). 2011, THE IRON LADY, which wouldn't have happened without her. 2012, HOPE SPRINGS, which *might* have worked if Mike Nichols had stayed on as director, but I'd file it in the same category as IT'S COMPLICATED in terms of its allure for her peers.

2013, AUGUST: OSAGE COUNTY -- role #2 that has all the Streep haters in a frenzy. Though my dream casting for that part was Lily Tomlin, I take the minority view that Streep was unexpectedly superb in it -- larger than life, to be sure, but never asking for the audience's sympathy,

2014 brought THE GIVER (please) and INTO THE WOODS (in which she pleased nobodies like the composer and the director). 2015, RICKI AND THE FLASH -- who else was begging for that part?

2016, FLORENCE FOSTER JENKINS -- which of her peers do you imagine playing, and singing, this one?

2017, THE POST -- a terrific part, and she was superb in it, but I don't hear it named as one of those she "greedily" took.

2019, THE LAUNDROMAT (which no one saw) and LITTLE WOMEN (supporting). 2020, THE PROM (maybe this is "gobble #3"? but no one saw this one either) and LET THEM ALL TALK (pretty much ignored). 2021, DON'T LOOK UP (supporting, Netflix).

So, I repeat -- has she worked a lot, far more than most others of her generation? Sure. But how many of these were dream roles that Diane Keaton or Jane Fonda or Sigourney Weaver were gnashing their teeth about not landing for themselves? Please.

[quote]Meryl’s ability to do accents is what set her apart early on

She had lost it by Dancing at Lughnasa.

Laurie Metcalf also routinely works with:

Roseanne

Scott Rudin

Joe Mantello

So….idk

Roseanne = Canceled.

[quote]2013, AUGUST: OSAGE COUNTY -- role #2 that has all the Streep haters in a frenzy. Though my dream casting for that part was Lily Tomlin, I take the minority view that Streep was unexpectedly superb in it -- larger than life, to be sure, but never asking for the audience's sympathy,

I don't hate Streep, but come on. This is the perfect of example of a role that another actress could have played much better, but Streep got the part instead based on reputation, and she failed to deliver. Meryl wasn't awful in it, but she was incredibly miscast, and if you think that Lily Tomlin, of all people, would have been the ideal casting for an Oklahoma matriarch when women like Sissy Spacek and Jessica Lange are right there, I think your opinion can be safely discarded.

Joan Crawford in Trog. No one wants to wind up like that.

If Joan Crawford had lived into the 80s she could have been a recurring guest star on Dynasty. She practicaly invented that style of acting.

Bette Davis did a lot of quality tv movies in the 70s and 80s. She didn't give a shit how she looked.

It isn't fair to say Meryl takes all the interesting roles. She's been advocating for stronger roles for women for over 40 years. Plus, she got more offers because she had was much more of a box office draw as she got older

R4 Jane Fonda DID do this. She was an co-creator and executive producer of Grace & Frankie.

Actors are allowed to just show up as well.

[quote] That's why all those British dames are still cropping up in (largely good) movies almost to the end of their lives

They do a lot of terrible work in TV and indie movies

Which among them does terrific work with kusturica and Marlon Brando and is the toast of Europe ?

They never would have been cast, because they are never cast anymore in movies, but there's no guarantee that Sissy and Jessica would have fared any better in August: Osage County.

R110, what exactly rules Lily Tomlin out in favor of Sissy Spacek and Jessica Lange? Jessica Lange's no more of a Southerner than Tomlin, and Tomlin would likely have been cooler, more restrained than Lange (whom I can also imagine enjoying in the part). Spacek might have been excellent too.

It's a great part, and like any great part, it responds to a variety of intelligent approaches. Deanna Dunagan was astonishing in it, of course, but the first time I saw the show on Broadway, it was her understudy Susanne Marley's first go at it, and she was quite good. And -- much to my surprise -- Estelle Parsons did very well by it as the first official replacement. (I didn't see Phylicia Rashad.)

"Safely discarding" others' views doesn't speak terribly well of your own ability to envision a range of people in a role. But look at me, expecting nuance on DataLounge, of all places.

R119, in your earlier post you characterized those who criticize Meryl as idiotic screechers and haters. Now, you demand nuance?

In fact, in that smug, long-winded diatribe, you unintentionally argue against Streep's greatness. Apparently so many of her roles over the past quarter century are inconsequential parts that no one else wanted in movies that no one saw. And yet, conveniently she's exceptional in everything role you actually judge, because in your eyes Streep cannot fail, others can only fail her.

That post is mostly the gushing of fangirl who refuses to engage critically with her favorite while engaging in irrelevant asides like noting that the director and composer of Into the Woods praised her performance. Astonishing that people involved a movie would praise an actor in it! That only happens on almost every other promotional tour for every film ever released.

Girls, girls, lighten up. You're both long winded so it's a draw.

I was thinking AOC will be helpful for young psychologists to understand a bad mother. It was a misfire due to the director but it's not the end of the world. It has some good bits.

Upon reflection, we can safely say that Julia's movie career is over. I don't know what she was thinking.

Also, Meryl is very funny on the new season of OMITB. She makes fun of doing accents and even imitated Rene Zellweger, who she has scenes with along with Dianne Wiest. They are all great. More celebration, please.

[quote]2017, THE POST -- a terrific part, and she was superb in it, but I don't hear it named as one of those she "greedily" took.

The Post is the one movie in recent years that I think Faye would have been perfect for. It called for an upper-class WASP elegance, and that was Dunaway's stock in trade back in the day. And even if she couldn't have done it, someone like an Ann Margret or Sigourney Weaver would have fit as well. You need a certain kind of style for that type of part.

With Meryl it came off like a frau who had money.

[quote] Jane Fonda DID do this. She was an co-creator and executive producer of Grace & Frankie.

And Grace and Frankie was a good sitcom.

Book Club was silly, and made by her friend Redford, but Out Souls At Night, Youth and Moving On were good movies.

Even 80 For Brady moved along at a brisk clip and didn’t overstay its welcome.

Helen, I think you are vastly overestimating modern Faye's ability to play a believable woman. Streep was very good in that film and if it was her last nod it would be fine, but I don't think it will be her last. She generates deals very quickly.

Also discussed in the halls ... what happened to Jessica Lange? She came here, they spent a lot of money on her projects, and they were all a waste of money.

Google : Hagsploitation.

[quote]R112 If Joan Crawford had lived into the 80s she could have been a recurring guest star on Dynasty. She practically invented that style of acting.

Her daily drinking might render her uninsurable.

And god help any AA group she joined. (“I have encased the coffee and donuts in plastic, and rearranged them OVER THERE.”)

Up thru the 60s, I would say the big Hollywood Trifecta was Katharine Hepburn, Bette Davis, and Joan Crawford.

I'd say the modern day version is Meryl, Jessica and Diane, (I'm leaving out Jane because she pretty much disappeared after the 80s).

I'm leaving out G because, well, I think we all know the reason!

What do you all think? Should this be its own thread?

[quote]I'd say the modern day version is Meryl, Jessica and Diane, (I'm leaving out Jane because she pretty much disappeared after the 80s).

Viola is the modern day version of Meryl.

R120, straw man much? I wasn't arguing against criticizing Streep. I was saying that the idea that she's gobbled up every choice role for older actresses is stupid, and I went through her career to show it. At no point did I claim to making the case that she's the greatest actress of all time (though I'd argue that "If she's so great, why hasn't she been in more great movies?" is another stupid canard). But if you want to shrug me off as a fangirl instead of actually reading what I wrote, that's your prerogative.

Bye.

[quote]I'm leaving out G because, well, I think we all know the reason!

Glenn continues to get high profiled work, and has been nominated twice for oscars in the last seven years,

As much as I like Jessica and Diane, Glenn deserves to be up there more than them.

IMHO nobody can play crazy or play camp like Glenn.

Glenn Close and Tracey Ullman play two elderly movie stars who are clearly based on Bette Davis and Katharine Hepburn on Tracey's show from the 80s.

For the top 3 best living film legends, I might go with Meryl, Jane and Sigourney. I admittedly have a US bias, but those women are the top for great movies with the most impact over long careers. Diane Keaton was also in this group, and the wealth of love shown for her is a testament to that.

People here elevate Jessica Lange, but I don't connect with her outside of her campy stuff. She has some good films but not top drawer due to spotty career choices.

I haven't seen a bench of talent that can replace them, but I do appreciate Natalie, Julianne, Cate bringing up the rear. There's still institutional bias about elevating a person of color, but that's a whole other thread.

Viola wishes, but she has been given a lot of chances and I don't see it happening unless she connects with a series or miniseries. It is nice that gay men find these women fascinating because society often doesn't.

R127 here. The three listed are less my personal preferences, just the three I believe to be the most prominent and most likely to be remembered if there's still a movie audience 30 years from now.

Whether or not actresses like Glenn and Sigourney deserved Oscars (which I could name at least one film for each) is beside the point. It's BECAUSE they never won one. I think it unfortunate, but true.

Jane is sort of in the in-between decade. I think around the mid-80s, her name was no longer on the lists that started with Meryl, then continued with Diane, Jessica, Glenn, Sally, Sigourney, etc.

I'm looking at it purely from a business angle. A personal pick of mine would be Anjelica Huston.

[quote]Girls, girls, lighten up. You're both long winded so it's a draw.

If you think that was long-winded, I cut two whole paragraphs devoted solely to Ricki and the Flash!

I don't think Julia's career is over. Even in the early 2000s she couldn't have overcome the disastrous reviews for After the Hunt, and she's only two years removed from a romantic comedy that made $170 million. Put her in a typical Julia Roberts role and it'll make money. It doesn't even have to be good (and Ticket to Paradise was not).

[quote] Upon reflection, we can safely say that Julia's movie career is over. I don't know what she was thinking.

I never thought I would say this but Julia Roberts walked away with August: Osage County and Meryl was miscast.

Then again, she is a Georgia peach herself.