Worst Stage-to-Film Musical Ever

Into the Woods comes to mind.

There were a lot of problems with Les Miz, but I still enjoy it. Eddie’s lament brings me to tears. Anne’s performance was great.

Can someone who has seen them both tell me—

Yes, Ben Platt is not convincing as a teenager in Dear Evan Hansen. That did not stop Grease from becoming a semi-classic. If you overlook this,, is the movie version a close representation of what it was like on stage and, if so, why was one so praised and the other so reviled?

This is a list of musicals that aren’t exactly great to begin with. Popularity very seldom equates to quality.

Cats

Thread closed.

R3 GREASE is satire, so it could get away with that.

DEAR EVAN HANSEN was trying to be all serious and genuine.

That's the difference.

R5 I am hanging my head in shame for not including Cats.

'A Little Night Music' on film was as I recall passed over in silence in later life by Sondheim. He wasn't over-enamoured even of the first 'West Side Story' on film, so 'ALNM' must really have failed hard.

“The Great Waltz” (1972) based on the 1934 stage musical is worse than any of these. What a stinker!

Gypsy, Les Miz and Hello Dolly are all wonderful films and do not belong on this list

Everyone always cites “The Producers” for this, but I quite enjoyed the movie.

How is Cats not on your list?

A Chorus Line. In a musical about dancers, you never see Audrey Landers actually dance. And in at least one group number, she disappears completely. They were too cheap to hire a body double.

And Cassie comes across as horny more than wanting to perform. “We made a lot of music dancing you and I.”

They had no excuse considering Fame pulled off both a movie and a tv show about performing.

I agree with R10. Gypsy and Hello, Dolly don't belong on this list. Especially Dolly- it's like the Sound of Music and WSS, it needed open space to add depth to the plot. But Kismet, Annie, Paint Your Wagon, 1776, and A Little Night Music. A lot of films fail because the songs suck. Dear Evan Hanson- one memorable song please? Rent- tragically one famously bad, self pretentious song. And Nine. I like " Be Italian" but once that Dean Martin sort of chestnut is done nothing else stands out about that film except what a waste of excellent talent for crap. Even Fergie deserved better. I also think that Funny Girl would suck if it were not for Babs and Wyler. The music is far stronger on the stage.

And Mame's biggest problem wasn't Lucy- although she and her ego helped. Mame's biggest problem is finding a personality as charming, quick witted, and forceful as Russell but lovingly played, and directed by a better director than Gene Saks. People loved Lucy as a physical and sometimes witty woman. But she was no Mame. A better director, Angela, Bea, and better costumes and arrangements and we would talk about Mame in a very positive way today.

Cats is the worst. Some of these movies are just dull and lifeless, but Cats is so awful that it's mesmerizing. You watch the film and just remain in awe that these people, generally all of them respected professionals in their fields, made a deliberate choice to do whatever they're doing. It's like the filmmakers are actively trying to find new ways for a film to be awful, and boy do they succeed at it.

I'll stand up for Nine, which is not a very good movie, but has great production values and a few fine performances. I think R14 gets it right: the songs just aren't memorable, and even some decent staging can't make up for that. (Almost every Broadway musical that succeeds on film has at least one song that breaks through outside of Broadway, which is one of the reasons why Kiss of the Spider Woman will probably fail.)

I always think "Grease" gets away with the older actors because it is a memory piece. There's no "realism" requires. It's a bunch of guys looking back on what once was. "Dear Evan Hansen" is supposed to be realistic and of its time.

For a while, someone had put "A Little Night Music" up on YouTube in ten or so parts. I watched it one Sunday afternoon. Jesus, it's tedious. That gets my vote. Of course, I kinda-sorta like "A Chorus Line." It might help that I am pretty unfamiliar with the source material.

I don't think it was a stage show, but I had a music teacher in Junior High school (in the 80s) who would force us to watch "Song of Norway" with Florence Henderson in class the week before Christmas break. Even then I knew it was a really lousy, boring movie. But our teacher loved it. Or at least loved that it was long enough to kill a week's worth of lesson plans.

Song of Norway but no one has ever been able to sit through it awake.

If I was forced to choose between sitting through the Lucille Ball Mame or Peter O'Toole Man of La Mancha in the theater again, I'd chose Mame.

This is DL so I voted for Mame...but Cats and Dear Evan Hansen were pretty bad, too

The absolute bottom-of-the-barrel worst is "Top Banana."

R3 I believe I understand your actual question. Dear Evan Hansen was adored on Broadway because attendees were willing to overlook the creepy plot and it translated better in an intimate setting. The movie highlighted everything wrong with it, from the creepy plot to its creepy lead actor to not translating to the big screen at all. So it went from winning Tonys to being openly reviled.

The Producers

A lot of stage musicals were adapted into films in the early talking picture era and many of them were weak. Many cut songs from the original score and substituted new songs.

It was popular and a huge hit, but the film of South Pacific must have drained most of the magic, mood and charm and emotional power from the original show. There's an old black and white kinescope of a duet from the show with Martin and Pinza that's better by far than anything in the entire film, so than kind of gives it away. It must have been an amazing show.

R21 I posed the original question, and, yes, you are the first to try to answer what I asked. I began by conceding that Platt looked too old but wondered if the movie was otherwise an accurate recreation of what was on stage. Still not sure why a “creepy plot” was accepted on stage but not on screen.

By the way, much as I hate to say it, because it is one of my favorite musicals and perhaps my favorite musical performance, but, by the time of the movie and particularly in close-up, Robert Preston might actually be a little too old for Harold Hill, especially opposite Shirley Jones with Ronnie Howard as her brother. Talk about a generation gap!

R25 He was only in his early 40s.

Maybe Warner Bros should have cast Troy Donahue!

I see R22 has made R11’s point.

R25 it might sound patronizing, but possibly theatergoers and critics are more likely to overlook the inherent difficulties within Evan Hansen’s storyline than the general moviegoing public.

Movies that take place in the real world tend to have to seem realistic, while on stage you can get away with a lot, and you can certainly get away with a character being a different age than the actor. Although wasn't Ben Platt younger when he did it on the stage, anyway?

As for Grease, Travolta was around 23 when he made it. That is hardly an unusual age to play a high school kind, then or now. ONJ managed to look young, we all knew she wasn't, but it didn't seem to matter. We remarked on how old some of the actors were, but to be honest I didn't even like Grease so I didn't care. I thought it was a shitty movie musical. But I still saw it 2 or 3 times, because different friends kept going and asking me if I wanted to go. It was the kind of thing you didn't mind seeing again because it wasn't that hard to sit through and had entertaining moments. Sometimes movies are hits because they're the cultural phenom. of the moment. I'm not sure how many people I knew actually loved it.

*high school kid

Pssst!

I’ve never seen “Grease.”

Not sure why.

[quote]I didn't even like Grease so I didn't care. I thought it was a shitty movie musical. But I still saw it 2 or 3 times, because different friends kept going and asking me if I wanted to go. It was the kind of thing you didn't mind seeing again because it wasn't that hard to sit through and had entertaining moments. Sometimes movies are hits because they're the cultural phenom. of the moment. I'm not sure how many people I knew actually loved it.

Yes, GREASE was the highest-grossing film of 1978, but it also became very popular on home video when it was finally released on VHS in 1990.

Thus, for its 20th anniversary it was re-released in theaters in 1998 and afterward a 20th Anniversary Edition VHS followed.

The DVD release was in 2002 and in 2006 a Rockin' Rydell Edition DVD came with a black Rydell High T-Bird jacket cover or a white Rydell "R" letterman's sweater cover or a Pink Ladies cover.

So, the movie wasn't just a flash in the pan in '78.

In fact, the stage show gets mounted annually by high schools and community theater (abroad, too, and in various languages) because the movie is still widely popular.

R16 is correct the stage version is introduced as a 'high school reunion' event that everyone is appearing at least 10 years or more after graduation.

Les Mis is a metric nightmare, r10.

Paint Your Wagon with Lee Marvin and Clint Eastwood will always be high on this list.

Man of La Mancha was so bad that James Coco lost 100 lbs so as not to be recognized after its release.

[quote] I don't think it was a stage show, but I had a music teacher in Junior High school (in the 80s) who would force us to watch "Song of Norway" with Florence Henderson in class the week before Christmas break.

It was very much a Broadway musical, and quite popular in its day.

I loved Cats. I get why most didn’t but it was a jolt of whimsy and joy at a time when I desperately needed it. Yes, it was bizarre, but it just worked for me.

I appeared against my will.

The Producers is just dull. It’s flat and, worst of all, boring.

La Mancha is dreadful.

The less said about Maje, the better.

But all three I mentioned robbed the pieces of their fun.

But Dear Evan Hansen? It was like a colonoscopy (prep included) without post-procedure high. In the case of Dear EH, the film accidentally revealed the terrible flaws in a largely undeniable show. Just garbage.

The only reason La Mancha doesn't top this list is that very few have seen it and Cats and Song of Norway were left off.

Dear Evan Hansen is a case study in how a theatrical acting style doesn't translate well onscreen. The end of "For Forever", where they're watching Platt in awe as he sings, is like something out of a parody.

"Dear Evan Hansen" is basically a young adult version of "No Man Of Her Own" aka "While You Were Sleeping."

Where would the American musical theater be in the 21st century without shows aimed at kids?

Mama Mia.... the only musical film cast with actors who can't sing or dance.

I LOVE “Dear Evan Hansen” — I laugh my ass off every time. It’s a fuckin’ riot. Ben Platt is TERRRRRRRRRRIBLE and I live watching the vessels in his neck POP during his songs. His performance is SO overwrought. I’d be willing to bet he gave himself hemorrhoids from singing like that. It’s easily one of the worst performances in a musical I have ever seen.

Bunny Campione

Reefer Madness the Musical.

So bad, it's good

Lady in the Dark (1946).

[quote]Paint Your Wagon with Lee Marvin and Clint Eastwood will always be high on this list.

The Simpsons thought so, too. 😂

[quote]"Dear Evan Hansen" is basically a young adult version of "No Man Of Her Own" aka "While You Were Sleeping."

No, it was MRS. WINTERBOURNE (1996) with Ricki Lake, Brendan Fraser, and Shirley MacLaine that was a remake of that.

[quote]Mama Mia.... the only musical film cast with actors who can't sing or dance.

Hardly the only one, and most of the musical performances are fine. It's "Mama Mia," not "Sweeney Todd," speaking of casting two stars who couldn't sing at all.

OP = James Corden

Others have already mentioned it, but "Gypsy" is a wonderful movie, except to old theater queens still complaining that Ethel Merman wasn't cast. Merman never clicked in movies, except when she played a harridan in "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World." And even though much of Rosalind Russell's singing in "Gypsy" is dubbed by Lisa Kirk, Roz did a hell of a lot more of her own singing than Audrey Hepburn did in "My Fair Lady." Also, I've seen "Gypsy" on stage many times, and no one has ever been a better Louise in the dressing room scene than Natalie Wood.

Man of La Mancha isn’t as bad as some of these but I hate that they truncated songs as well as Sophia Loren doing that talk/singing thing through her songs. Joan Diener may not have been a box office name but that voice of hers…

R26 My point was that age will sometimes be overlooked. I do not want Troy Donahue. In fact for me this may be the indispensable musical performance. Craig Bierko, Matthew Broderick, Hugh Jackman, I don’t care—if it is not Robert Preston, it is not really The Music Man. And 180 degrees off-topic, I think the reason the movie works so well is because it finds the exact correct degree of theatricality for a Broadway-to-musical film, in sets and performance style—not realistic but also not overly broad. I could do without the spotlight effect at the end of a few scenes, but otherwise a model adaptation.

Hello, Dolly. What a tedious, overblown mess. Streisand is totally miscast doing some ridiculous Mae West imitation, Crawford seems like a coked-up retard, and Matthau wants to be in another movie. Sometimes less is more.

I agree that Man Of La Mancha is bad, but I always find O'Toole and Loren watchable. Les Miz and Gypsy don't belong on the list.

I didn't even know Dear Evan Hansen was a movie.

But ultimately, Mame wins. It is truly dreadful and there's nothing that can redeem it. At least Dolly has Louis Armstrong.

Mame was a tremendous embarrassment. I’m so sorry I did it. Fuck you, Gene Saks!

How did Cats not make the list?

[quote] Fuck you, Gene Saks!

And she probably did because she was married to him for 28 years.

To be fair, Bea Arthur was nominated for a Best Supporting Actress Golden Globe for MAME.

Lucy wasn’t entirely responsible for Mame’s faults. Part of the problem was Gene Saks’ direction. He was thinking too much like a stage director, leaving huge pauses for laughter and applause. That might be okay in a crowded theatre of fans, but it made the pace drag terribly. A tighter editing job could’ve fixed this to an extent.

Mame absolutely can't be the worst considering how much joy it's brought to DL. It wouldn't be DL without an annual Mame/Lucy thread.

Truth be told, Vivian Vance should have played Mame with Eve Arden as Vera.

[quote] It wouldn't be DL without a monthly Mame/Lucy thread

FIFY

I love Peter O'Toole and Sophia in Man of La Mancha R55. I once had the privilege of talking to him about it just one on one a few months before he passed away. He was wonderful man! That laugh! He also loved doing that movie even though he was dubbed. I love to watch it too. For some reason I always cry.

"I am no one and nothing, I'm only Aldonza the whore"

The 1932 Wheeler & Wolsey version of [italic]Girl Crazy[/italic]. It has a few nice moments, but it's a poor representation of the stage show.

The 1931 [italic]Fifty Million Frenchmen[/italic], not because it's not sufficiently entertaining but because they cut all the stage show's music.

[quote] The 1932 Wheeler & Wolsey version of Girl Crazy. It has a few nice moments, but it's a poor representation of the stage show.

How would you know? Were you taken as a eight-year-old to see it, so you're now 101?

You're really Eva Marie Saint, aren't you? Oh Ms. Saint, I loved you in "North by Northwest"...

There are a LOT of choices but even so there’s just no topping Mame.

I’m interested in hearing from eldergays. They used soft focus on Lucy in Mame. What did that look like on the big screen?

Hideous. I saw it in the movies. The first few times, I thought I had gunk on my contacts.

Oops. I meant the first few times Lucy appeared on the screen. I only saw it once in the movies. I will watch it when a viewing is announced on DL, so I can watch with you all.

r67 Some of us can read and study the scores of shows, Dear.

R32 Yes, that's what I don't understand. I think those of us who were teens or in our early 20s in 1978 went to see the film for various reasons, and even returned, but didn't think it would be some classic for all time. It was the junk food of the moment, there were some songs from it on the radio, it was heavily promoted, but we KNEW THAT.

All these kids today who think it's a classic...that just makes me laugh, or it makes me kind of sad. It's not an immortal classic, even as camp.

[quote] I’m interested in hearing from eldergays. They used soft focus on Lucy in Mame. What did that look like on the big screen?

Well, I was 15 or 16 when I saw it, so I'm not sure I remember. I guess it looked EXACTLY THE SAME as it does on a TV screen.

Hamilton

Cats (2019) was so trippy, so fucking bizarre, for me there was a train-wreck fascination to it. I wasn’t bored. Ok, so the THC edible helped.

Dear Evan Hansen on the other hand was both dull and cringeworthy.

Has anyone mentioned The Wiz?

Annie?

Rock of Ages?

Nine?

...and Wicked.

R78, Rock of Ages was TERRIBLE

"At Long Last Love" is one of the most dreadful movie musicals of all time, but it wasn't a stage adaptation.

I couldn't even watch "Mame" and I Love Lucy!

Sweeney Todd. Visually it's brilliant as you'd expect from Tim Burton and the supporting cast is very good - Alan Rickman, Timothy Spall and Sacha Baron Cohen. But why are Todd and Mrs Lovett so dead-pan in their delivery? It made no sense and emphasized the vocal shortcomings of the two leads.

[quote]R14 A better director, Angela, Bea, and better costumes and arrangements and we would talk about Mame in a very positive way today.

Lansbury’s face was just not attractive enough to stare at in close up for two hours.

Now that's the truth, to face and deal with, if you want to survive.

Cats. The 1998 film is horrid.

R84 and onscreen she's not a leading lady. Bedknobs and Broomsticks was a Mame audition and she didn't pass. She also wasn't able to convey a love for children. Maybe it was the British frostiness.

[quote]Hamilton

Saw the tenth anniversary screening of 'Hamilton' at the weekend. Liked and admired it a lot, if falling short of love. There are some stunning sequences, and LMM is clearly some kind of genius. For me it wasn't the 'worst' of anything.

Angela Lansbury wanted the part of Milady De Winter in The Three Musketeers. She didn't understand why Lana Turner, who couldn't play it the way Angela knew she, Angela, could, was cast instead of her. She was cast in a smaller, much duller, role. It just shows she didn't really get it. She wasn't ever going to get the lead in a big picture at MGM, over Lana Turner, one of their biggest stars and a huge box-office draw. In the '70s, when she was middle-aged, and not even yet the popular star of a hit TV show, Hollywood was not going to build a big musical around her. She was delusional.

The Wiz wasn't mentioned because people who's seen it tend to block it from their memory.

[quote] They used soft focus on Lucy in Mame. What did that look like on the big screen?

As I recall she was photographed through several layers of greased burlap.

Light the candles/Get the ice out/Roll the rug up/It's today

What's today, exactly?

The Wiz is very beloved in the black community.

The movie?

The 1950s show, Hazel Flagg, was made into a Dean Martin-Jerry Lewis movie, Living it Up (1954).

The female lead role in the show (played on stage by Helen Gallagher) was changed to a male to accommodate Jerry Lewis. Songs from the show like "Every Street's A Boulevard in Old New York" were used in the film, which was updated from the 1920s to the 1950s. Sheree North reprised her role from the show in the film.

Not on the list but Flower Drum Song was a decent stage show but a miss mosh of a movie. Too bad because it had some good songs.

r91, it literally looked like they smeared Vaseline on the camera lens.

Hair.

It captured the zeitgeist of the era like nothing before it but the film limped in about a decade too late.

Still, it was well cast... I'd genius, genius across the Atlantic Sea with John Savage until the troops came home.

R92- what monolithic bullshit told you that the Wiz is loved in the black community- what ever that means? R55- In defense of Hello, Dolly: I think Babs is a terrible actress except for four films: Up The Sandbox, Funny Girl, What's Up, Doc and Hello, Dolly. Why? because in Dolly she can't be Babs. There is nothing there that gives her the look at me pull that Wyler gave her. Kelly isn't interested in her feelings or ideas. He is trying to make people forget Carol Channing, and as long as Babs isn't doing a Channing act he is happy. This leaves Babs out on her own. She is not miscast, but she had to work hard which meant creating a character of her own- which she does to remarkable ends. She isn't doing Mae West- no sexuality is involved. She is doing a young widow from Hester Street trying to make a living who suddenly realizes that she is in love again. Of all her soundtrack recordings this the best one because there is no look at me vibe- just straight forward singing. Walter isn't happy but they have great chemistry. Babs didn't want Armstrong originally- she thought they were exploiting him. But he adds a great deal of class and polish near the end of the film. Babs may have felt miscast but that is only because the film doesn't shine on her but on the story. It's a far better show on screen then on stage. And that gold dress by Irene Sharaff is so beautiful it should be in a museum.

R97 I disagree. I loved the movie Hair. Milos Forman's vision was a completely different concept from the stage musical. The creators HATED it. But the original concept was already dated by 1979.

It's built a small but loyal cult following over the years.

Please, R98. You're a total Babstan. She imitated Mae West's style of speech. Ridiculous to say she didn't. To throw in some nonsense about sexuality is deliberately missing the point. She's Babs playing something, but it's not Dolly Gallagher.

Characters matter. On stage, Dolly is a middle aged Irish widow. Changing the character to 20something from Hester Street doesn't work. You never believe she found love again with a 50 year old curmudgeon with whom she has zero chemistry. If anything, you suspect her motives are purely financial. She creates a character that doesn't fit the material. It's the definition of miscast.

She didn't want Louis Armstrong in the movie because she didn't want to be upstaged in the best and most famous song in the show.

But she's not the only problem as I pointed out.

R99 - count me in as another fan of the movie Hair. I never saw the stage show but I love the movie.

Couldn't sit through Man of La Mancha

r98, not too tough to Google, birdbrain.

And another

R98:Everything you say is true—and yet, and yet, she is still the most enjoyable thing in this spectacle, including, however it got there, her duet with Armstrong. Since she was already so miscast, the thing to do was make Vandergelder younger too—and with some sex appeal, so their romance seems believable instead of just mercenary.

Sorry, that should have been everything R100 said about Dolly is true.

[quote]Since she was already so miscast, the thing to do was make Vandergelder younger too

Definitely! This would have made the film more believable.

Obviously, there are examples of stage musicals that made enjoyable films - as long as you didn't see the stage production first.

Hello Dolly, Hair, Gypsy, and The Wiz all have legions of fans, who were introduced to the movies first and didn't have the stage productions to compare them to. Even A Chorus Line is an enjoyable enough film for those who never had the opportunity to see the original musical, (they would have no idea that changing the meaning of "What I Did For Love" was heresy to the entire concept of the musical).

But then there are movie-musicals that are awful whether or not you saw the origin material: that probably goes for Mame, Evan Hanson, and for me, Mamma Mia was an okay stage musical turned into a dreadful movie-musical, yet I believe it turned out to be Meryl Streep's highest grossing film Internationally.

But tell me OP, was Vivian Vance a musical? Did I miss it? (actually, it sounds like a great idea). Maybe it could star Toni Collette?

Nine owns this thread. Fucking awful

Who on earth was thinking “Let’s make a Daniel Day Lewis musical”?

And going on about creating a special number for Kate Hudson like they were getting fucking Callas to the screen. Cellulite flapping in the breeze as she “sang”

Chicago and Into the Woods aren’t much better either. Rob Marshall is a hack.

R108, actually, The Wiz is not a very good stage show and the movie bears no resemblance to it. The stage show was a flop when it began and then they began a radio campaign using Ease On Down The Road and then, the black audiences made it a hit.

I stumbled across the movie version of the The Fantasticks on cable late one night. I find the musical to be vaguely charming when staged well, but the movie drained any possible enjoyment from the experience.

O'Toole's make up was poor, but his lip-synching to Simon Gilbert's voice was spot on.

[quote]creating a special number for Kate Hudson

Poor Kate. That number was a total homage to her mother.

I saw The Wiz on its Chicago stop during its national tour. I was in college and one of the forms was going. We sat in the balcony of the Shubert (IIRC). It was pure pleasure with a great cast—the Dorothy was a young woman named aren Woods and she shook the rafters with “Home.” No one mistook it for great art, but it was an immensely entertaining show. I saw the film when it came out, at a matinee in our suburban movie house. I found it dour and lifeless—more Orwell than Oz.

Renn Woods was in the movie Hair and sang the solo part of Aquarius. Awesome.

[quote] I saw The Wiz on its Chicago stop during its national tour. I was in college and one of the forms was going.

Forms? Was Chicago in the UK, back then?

What about Paint Your Wagon, and Finian's Rainbow? They were both awful movies, as far as I'm concerned.

I love "Finian's Rainbow."

Still trying to figure out why they come to the US from Ireland, and they start in California and move their way east across the country to get to the Deep South.

r119 They didn't have Google Maps back then.

R120 And the captain of the boat from Ireland probably got lost.

When I saw Finian's Rainbow as a kid I was annoyed that Fred Astaire had this big dance with the chorus and his 4feet were cut off in the shot. More recently I read that wasn't intentional and somehow the movie has been restores and you can see his steps. All the time I just thought it was Coppola being a lousy director.

*His two feet, not his 4 feet.

[quote]R115 Renn Woods was in the movie Hair and sang the solo part of Aquarius. Awesome.

MISS Betty Buckley’s voice is shoehorned into some of “Hair,” as well.

The first wave of Gen X was conceived to this music - one more indignity we had to suffer. Alone.

[quote]I saw the film when it came out, at a matinee in our suburban movie house. I found it dour and lifeless—more Orwell than Oz.

Diana Ross was much too old to play Dorothy, but that wasn't the biggest problem with her performance. She's just so dour throughout. She weeps her way through the entire movie.

R116. Should be dorms—blame autocorrect and my slipshod proofing

I'm not a huge fan of the casting of Barbra as Dolly Gallagher Levi, but I've always thought:

1) She does give it a good go

2) Walter Matthau is also miscast, but he just seems painfully constipated during the entire movie

3) Barnaby, Cornelius, Irene Malloy and Minnie Fay grin and overdo it so broadly that it's like they're injecting Joker Venom and sniffing coke simultaneously

4) The original Broadway show already had a terrible case of the corny-cutesies (e.g. "the celebrated half a millionaire"), which comes off as even more dated and nauseating offscreen, and which makes the dialogue much more tedious and so the film seems even longer than it is.

5) Gene Kelly was absolutely the wrong person to direct this

Too bad Vincente Minnelli wasn’t given the chance to direct Hello Dolly.

Minnelli got his chance to direct Babs in her next movie musical.

[quote]I'm not a huge fan of the casting of Barbra as Dolly Gallagher Levi

"Gallagher" was dropped for the movie. She's referred to only as Dolly Levi.

I think that Shirley Booth in “The Matchmaker” was prime Dolly. The movie that became the musical that became a movie musical. Oy vey!

All the casting and performances in The Matchmaker—Booth, Paul Ford, Anthony Perkins, Shirley MacLaine, Robert Morse—are so much better than Dolly.

Too bad Shirley Booth was too old by the time Hello, Dolly! was filmed. She could sort of sing…about as well as Carol Channing, maybe.

Ruth Gordon won a Tony for her Dolly in the original production. Robert Morse was in it, as well as Arthur Hill.

Hello, Dolly! is good, even Jerry Herman came to love it.

But then there's Song of Norway. Truly, absolutely the worst.

Also, Babes in Toyland, anyone?

Is Babes in Toyland terrible? Yes. But the version with Laurel and Hardy AKA March of the Wooden Soldiers will always have a place in my heart. Thanksgiving Day escape as a kid.

[quote]Hello, Dolly! is good, even Jerry Herman came to love it.

Sondheim loved the awful movie of Sweeney Todd.

R134. Gordon did not win—she was so sore about it, she wrote about it decades later in one of her memoirs. And Carol Channing said Gordon didn’t crack a smile once when she attended Hello, Dolly!

You have to see the uncut directors cut of the Fantastiks R111. It's very different. I spent a whole evening once with Joey McEntyre talking about it. It was one of the few film musicals with live vocals filmed on the set. All the actors wore ear plugs for the music playback. A new tech at the time. By the way, Joey is a great guy and very sexy up close and personal. We had to climb these rickety stairs together and his butt was right in my face! I could have charged admission from teenage girls lol

[quote]I think that Shirley Booth in “The Matchmaker” was prime Dolly. The movie that became the musical that became a movie musical. Oy vey!n

Technically, it was a play by Thornton Wilder called "The Merchant of Yonkers" (based on an old German play called "A Day Well Spent"), that Wilder later revised as "The Matchmaker," which was adapted into the musical that became a movie musical.

Even more technically, the German play (1842) was Austrian and it was a musical adaptation of a 1835 English play by John Oxenford. "On the Razzle" (1981) by Tom Stoppard was a non-musical adaptation of the Austrian musical, and the Scottish composer Robin Orr adapted "On the Razzle" into an opera in 1988.

Re Dolly.

The original Broadway show already had a terrible case of the corny-cutesies

Can you imagine how cutesy Carol Channing would have been in the film? You should watch her in the TV pilot she made. She is unbearable.

Channing's TV pilot is on YouTube. It was produced by Desi Arnaz. "Unbearable" describes her performance perfectly. It's shocking how bad she is and how inane the script is. Totally unwatchable.

There are close-ups of her talking to the camera and spittle forms in her mouth. Yuck!

Here tis.

Michael Bennett said that in the few chances Channing got in TV or movies, she played to the balcony in every scene. He said it's no wonder she's adored by drag queens.

It’s a mess, but I still have a soft spot for A Chorus Line. I’ve seen it many times. I do fast forward through some bits. They should have cast a big star for Cassie—not that I can think of who could have played that role in 1985.

[quote]not that I can think of who could have played that role in 1985.

L*I*Z*A*

Yes she was 39 years old at the time but audiences would have overlooked it like they did Stockard Channing in Grease.

The problem is that once they signed Michael Douglas, they couldn’t sign any bigger names.

Dolly has to be played by an older woman. Doris Day would have been the obvious choice of a film star the right age who was a singer, and she could do comedy.

[quote] Viewing Lehman's list of casting options is interesting! For Dolly, Lehman considered Julie Andrews (probably trying to replicate his hit with her on Sound of Music ); Elizabeth Taylor (she couldn't really sing); Lucille Ball (see Mame ); Maureen O'Hara and Carol Burnett. Crossed out on his list was Doris Day, who must have turned him down. Written in as an afterthought were Angela Lansbury and Deborah Kerr. Lehman's list of Vandergelders is just as interesting: Jimmy Stewart, Rex Harrison, Richard Burton, Jackie Gleason, and Alec Guinness. For Irene Molloy, Lehman considered Yvette Mimieux, Liza Minnelli, Mary Tyler Moore, Maggie Smith, Sally Ann Howes, Lee Remick, and Jane Fonda (!).

[quote] It was director Mike Nichols who suggested Streisand as Dolly. Thornton Wilder himself described Dolly Levi in his play as “uncertain age; mass of sandy hair; impoverished elegance.” Streisand was hired as Dolly when she was 24 years old. She filmed the movie when she was 25 years old (note: Funny Girl had NOT been released, nor had her performance in it been lauded yet); Dolly was released when Barbra was 27.

I can’t think of any worse than Mame. Absolute torture.

It’s too bad Lost Horizon wasn’t adapted from a stage muiscal, or I’d say it was that.

Yeah I know there was a stage musical, but it wasn’t the same.

Doris Day would have been miscast as Dolly.

Lucy would have been wonderful as Dolly.

Liv Ullmann IS Dolly, Peter Finch IS Mr. Vandergelder!

[quote]Lucy would have been wonderful as Dolly.

Sure, and Desi would have made a great Horace.

[quote]Lucy would have been wonderful as Dolly.

Aside from her being completely wrong for the character and having zero ability to sing.

How is Lucy wrong for the character? And when could Carol Channing sing?

R158 There’s no historical evidence Dolly smoked four packs a day.

Wiki on Dolly Gallagher Levi: Dolly Levi is a "widow in her middle years who has decided to begin her life again. She is a matchmaker, meddler, opportunist, and a life-loving woman." She is from Yonkers, New York and was married to Ephram Levi, who dies before the events of the story. She is loud, brassy, and constantly meddling in others' lives. These qualities make her beloved by her hometown.

I mean, it reads like Lucy's bio.

Middle years was 40ish. Lucy was 60ish.

Wow, that Carol Channing pilot is godawful.

R161, actually, she was 50ish when they shot Dolly

A Chorus Line is dreadful. The pathetic attempts to flesh out the characters was an awful idea. Bebe had a nervous breakdown. Sheila had a kid. The addition of Zach's annoying assistant fangurling over Cassie. And, Audrey Landers did have a dance double. It was one of the Val's from Broadway. Maybe she was just used in the finale.

R164 Just curious. Had you seen the musical on Bway before seeing the movie?

R109, they didn’t set out to make a “Daniel Day Lewis musical” with Nine. Javier Bardem was originally cast but wisely bowed out.

R165. I did.

R153 Unlike Barbra Streisand.

R165 Then you validate my claim. Just about everyone I know who saw the movie of ACL but never saw the musical, at the very least, enjoyed it. They had no problem accepting the changes because they had no experience with the origin stories.

I hated the movie almost as much as you for the same reasons.