Far-right populists top polls in Germany, France and Britain for the first time

I sweater gawd, late stage capitalism betta not create a world wide holacaust. I’m a bit nervous based on white people’s past history.

Late stage capitalism necessarily leads to one of two outcomes - fascism, or a communist revolution.

Capitalists will always choose fascism, which requires scapegoats. They need the masses to keep their guns aimed at each other so they don't get turned on them.

S'why historically liberals have always sided with fascists against leftists in these times.

R2 Gobbeldygook. doesn't even make sense.

This is what happens when you let illegals in and then give them free food, hotels, and health care while citizens are struggling to pay rent and groceries.

What happened to the good old days of letting them in and saying, "you're on your own...get a job".

Late stage capitalism is not a thing. It’s the new queer thrown around by communist-loving academics who never leave their ivory towers.

In 2024, a Wall Street Journal writer complained that “Our universities teach that we are living in the End Times of ‘late capitalism.’”[16] Chine McDonald, the director of the British media-massaging thinktank Theos argues that the reason why so many people these days are preoccupied with the “end times”, is because “doom sells”: it caters to deep psychological needs that sell a lot of books, movies and TV series with apocalyptic themes.[17] Reality may also hit people in the eye. Thus, according to PNAS, there is scientific evidence that exposure to brutal images (such as horrific violence in Gaza, Ukraine, and the United States) is independently and significantly associated with stress symptoms and poorer functioning.

The idea of "late capitalism" was never accepted by the majority of social scientists, economists and historians, for five kinds of reasons:

It was considered that the expression was tinged with illiberal political biases about capitalism, and/or because it is unknowable or uncertain whether capitalism is "on its last legs", or "if and when it will end". The German-American economist Hans Philip Neisser, a lecturer at the New School of Social Research, stated in 1954 that "The vital power of all civilizations and all economic systems some day declines and comes to an end. At what point will the free enterprise system definitely reach its old age? I do not know of any scientific way to determine this moment in advance.”[19] The unresolved questions were: "late" in what sense? In comparison to what? How do we know? What could possibly replace capitalism? The liberal economist Paul Krugman stated in 2018 that "I’ve had several interviews lately in which I was asked whether capitalism had reached a dead end, and needed to be replaced with something else. I'm never sure what the interviewers have in mind; neither, I suspect, do they."[20]

Exactly, R5. Nonsense language that no one listens or relates to.

LePen is going to take France. Macron pushing Palestine was the final nail in the coffin for his flailing administration. Meanwhile actually Nazis will take over Germany. Make it make sense. Is the UK going to lose Labour again?

R7, it looks like it.

It’s strange. Now that the numbers are in their favor a lot of right wingers in Britain are saying Farage has gone soft. They want mass deportations. Farage knows the number of deportations they’re expecting just isn’t possible.

There was a massive protest over the weekend in London.

Oh, look! Another thread brought to you by our long ignored far right troll! How much are they paying you per word or is this just labor of (degenerate) love?

What R4 said. Unfettered immigration from Muslim countries has caused chaos in all of these countries. These people do not assimilate; you assimilate to them. They’re destroying the specific cultures of these regions and the native populations are sick and tired of it. Who can blame them?

R8: Possibly it's about sending the message "We don't want you!" as an asylum destination?

I believe you r10. I do think we have a very different situation here in the U.S. in that I don't think our overwhelmingly Hispanic immigrants are trying to change the culture at all. But big waves of Muslim immigration in Europe do seem to create much bigger cultural challenges. And I do believe that is the primary reason for the rise of these right wing populist movements there.

It’s not, r12. It may contribute but is not, I live in Portugal and last week for the first time the far right party was on top or the polls for the first time. We have no significant muslin emigration. Also, see Brasil circa Bolsonaro, again no muslims of note,

Whatever about late capitalism but to me one major cause was the 2008 financial crisis, which impact led to this. The costs were borne by the common people while banks, fincial institutions and corporations got away free. Even most of the hate against emmigrants is because of the tought “they are taking our jobs”.

I never really understood the anti immigrant movement in the US. It’s almost all Hispanics and they share the cultural values of the majority of Americans. A lot of paranoia about the replacement theory which turned into a joke. Hispanics are becoming reliable Republican voters not the Dem voters the MAGAs feared. Also immigrants here don’t get the help they get in Europe.

That is interesting r13, and as indicated I'm not European so I can't pretend I have any idea what is really happening on the ground there. I will say we kind of went through this in the early years of the Tea Party. Weirdly, it began as an upsurge as much about the Big Banks as about government or all the other fuckery it turned into. But the thing is, it very, very quickly abandoned any interest in the banks and the rich and became a total wingnut nightmare, hating pretty much everything EXCEPT the rich fuckers that caused the problem in the first place. And eventually it all turned into the Trump Cult, or maybe just got folded into the Trump Cult. That's what I fear will happen there as well, but you all have a very different history than we do. We have always had this weird thing in the U.S. that capitalism is kind of a religion, more than just an economic system. So maybe you won't do every stupid thing we've done these past few decades.

I don’t know what Europe considers to be far-right. It seems like if you use “far” for anything, it’s inherently relative to something else. Obviously, the center in the U.S. is to the right of Europe’s center.

[quote] I do think we have a very different situation here in the U.S. in that I don't think our overwhelmingly Hispanic immigrants are trying to change the culture at all.

Right, that’s why everything is automatically offered in Spanish instead of other languages. The US needs to make English the official language. The US is the only country that doesn’t have one. Language integrates people.

[quote]I don’t know what Europe considers to be far-right.

Open a history book, you lazy moron.

[quote]It’s almost all Hispanics and they share the cultural values of the majority of Americans.

They absolutely do not. The only link they do have is to the Republican Party due to cultural conservative religious views. Other than that it’s all third world rubbish.

[quote] Right, that’s why everything is automatically offered in Spanish instead of other languages.

What exactly is offered in Spanish that isn't also offered in English? What have you, personally, suffered in the United States from only speaking English? Isn't this 100% an invented trauma and nothing real at all?

And r19., what exactly do you think the immigrants from Mexico and Central America DON'T share with the rest of us? And don't say they don't love everything that every dumb fuck in Alabama loves, cause neither do the rest of us.

Hispanic families are either Catholics or evangelicals. They usually are hardworking and usually follow a patriarchal family structure. Yes, some migrants are criminals and involved with gangs. How is that so different from MAGA? By the second or third generation that are usually completely integrated in US society like other immigrant groups before them.

Yeah, and it doesn't even take that long r21. This silly idea that everyone comes over the border saying the rosary and praying that all them homos go away is moronic. The truth is even back home there's a wide variety of opinions, and a lot of time people are grateful to get away from the fucking barrio and the fucking village and the fucking priests and pastors for once. And of course, there's always been patriarchy in theory and patriarchy in practice, and they never have some 100% overlap. And of course the same goes for religion. The idea that people who have trekked thousands of miles away have never, ever considered that maybe the old ways ain't perfect is silly on the face of it.

They come here overwhelmingly to work, and to whatever extent possible to fit in, and not get thrown right back out of the country (increasingly difficult). Very few are here to revolutionize the place and make everything just like it was back home. Overwhelmingly, they don't give a fuck about that and just want a goddamn job, a goddamn home, and as few fuckers chasing them down the street as humanly possible.

[quote] It’s not, [R12].

It is, R13.

Been to Paris lately? It’s lovely walking through metal detectors with machine guns in front of your face just to enter a shopping center due to Muslim terrorism. It’s certainly not due to shoplifting Parisians.

French culture is also being turned upside down due to Muslim immigrants forcing their ways into existing communities, all because of the do-gooder leadership employing the Euro version of “woke” to devastating effect.

I’m surprised it took them this long to rebel. It’s an absolute mess and Germany isn’t far behind.

Bingo r10. That is the reason for this. The Left created a fucking MESS with Muslim immigration, far too many were let in. Going right wing is not the answer but the population has had enough.

I've posted this before, but if Muslims were lily white Anglo Saxons the Western Left would tell them all to go fuck themselves as they (rightfully) do with fundamentalist Christians, who are also intolerant, backwards Medieval assholes. But since Muslims are mostly brown people, nobody wants to be called racist.

Spain too R13? WOW. And the UK wants Farage? So France, UK, Germany, and possibly Spain will all have far right governments? That is utter insanity.

[quote]Spain too [R13]? WOW. And the UK wants Farage? So France, UK, Germany, and possibly Spain will all have far right governments? That is utter insanity.

And what's the alternative?

I would be curious, and this is not doubting anybody or anything, but outside Paris and from what I've heard Marseilles, is there a big Muslim impact on France? In other words, is this concentrated in the big cities, or more widespread than that?

I was going to type up something else but I don't see how anybody couldn't see this coming. England covered up grooming gangs for decades just because they happened to be Pakistani. And they're still protecting them. The neoliberal left and right are symbiotic with each other. Right wingers pay lip service to deportation while keeping quiet on the businesses importing slave labour. And lefties make them look good by acting like pure cancer. Trump and Clinton are both on the Epstein list. All parasites on their thrones.

R25, Portugal and Spain are two different countries…Portugal has a centre right government right now but it’s getting more extreme to compete with the extreme right party that is leading the poll. Spain has a fragile centre left government, one of the few in Europe.

R23, speak of France all you want but you cannot use Muslim immigration has the major factor to the ascension of the far right when it happens in countries where it isn’t an issue. I’m don’t say it isn’t a contributing factor.

[quote]speak of France all you want but you cannot use Muslim immigration has the major factor to the ascension of the far right when it happens in countries where it isn’t an issue. I’m don’t say it isn’t a contributing factor.

In Italy, it has been more about migrants from Sub Saharan Africa. Italians do not want them in their midst. Italy has been able to manage the Muslim situation better than France.

Italians don't tolerate Muslim bullshit, partly due to their history with Muslims.

^True

Michigan is well on its way to becoming the new France.

[quote] I do think we have a very different situation here in the U.S. in that I don't think our overwhelmingly Hispanic immigrants are trying to change the culture at all.

Sombreros, Taco Tuesdays, and mariachi bands are firmly entrenched in the American common culture. The language issue is a big one, as American English speakers are similar to people in other places where maintaining the common national language is big deal.

You sound like a complete twat r34. You should work on that.

What language issue? People in the US speak English. Immigrants speak their own language along with some English but in a generation or two, that changes. Many people with Hispanic heritage no longer know any Spanish. For example, JLo. Among the problems the US faces, it’s about problem 647 on the list.

My bff's parents came here from Puerto Rico, and they made sure their kids learned no Spanish at all.

They didn't want their kids to be different than other kids.

English is, in fact, the official language of the United States.

R28 has no idea what neoliberalism even is. Somebody’s been drinking the Bernie KoolAid.

Wow, a lot of storm front posters in this thread. Let's start with "why is Spanish offered so much in schools?" How about the fact that the entire Western Hemisphere other than the US, Canada, and Brazil, speaks Spanish as their first language. and we share a 2000 mile long border with Mexico. which is our LARGEST trading partner.

Muslims in Europe come in many different flavors and have many different histories, speak a variety of different languages, and their relationships with their host countries have different tensions depending on how they arrived, how they were treated, and so forth. They are not monolithic, and it's a sort of deliberate ignorance to put them all in the same basket as though they were.

France has the longest history with Muslims. Their challenges were self-imposed. No one demanded that the French take over and colonize large swaths of Northern and Africa with large populations of Muslims, but they did. When they de-colonized, they accepted large numbers of Muslim refugees from Algeria, Morocco, and Tunisia. By and large, the French were a more benign presence in Tunisia and Morocco, but they were a very brutal and oppressive force to the Algerians, and the war which Algeria fought to oust the French was bloodier, on both sides. When refugees from those countries came to France, they were not treated well. There were no real provisions made to help them adapt to French life and they were relegated to slums on the outskirts of the large cities from the very beginning. France is also rigorously secular in its school system and traditional dress was not allowed. So tensions were there from the beginning, and the situation has never really improved. My impression is that displaced Moroccans and Tunisians have done better in France than Algerians.

Britain's interactions with Muslims have also been self-imposed. Again, no one requested that Britain colonize large swaths of north Africa, the Middle East, and, most of all, the subcontinent of what was then India, but is now Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh - a colonization which brought tremendous wealth to Britain, while it impoverished the nations who were colonized. For example, India was considered the wealthiest nation on the planet in 1650 when the British showed up, and look what happened by the time the British left in 1950. However, Britain magnanimously offered these former colonies to become part of the Commonwealth, and British residency and even citizenship was offered to people from the Commonwealth. I feel certain that Britain never expected these people from the tropics to come in such numbers to a cool and rainy island - but so they did. Along with black people of various religious affiliations from Africa and the West Indies. 1/6 of the world's population lives in the subcontinent of south Asia, double the population of all of Europe. My impression is that Hindu Indians have established an uneasy but moderately civil relationship with the British in the face of a lot of racism. However, a portion of the Pakistanis have reverted to more fundamentalist schools of Islam, they feel unwelcome and some are guilty of very bad behaviors.

Germany had a very long relationship with Turkish workers starting in the 1960s. The Turks don't speak Arabic and they came to Germany for a better life and more economic opportunities. However, when the Syrian war came, Germany took in half a million Syrians, with almost no preparation, and the people who came were there out of desperation, not because they had any interest in learning about German culture or way of life. Trying to integrate them has been a huge challenge. Likewise with Sweden, which proportionally accepted even a much larger percentage of Syrians than the Germans. I would describe the effort as well-intentioned but poorly executed and the backlash has been severe.

It's the year 2025 and no gives a rats ass about what happened decades and decades ago.

[quote]Wow, a lot of storm front posters in this thread.

What posts specifically?

Poor Winston Churchill. "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

^ True. We should learn from the early Islamic conquests of Europe and expansion into the Balkans. The Umayyad conquest of the Iberian Peninsula. And the Umayyad Invasions of Gaul.....and etc.

r42, a few would be r10, r23, r24, and perhaps a few others.

r44. I notice you didn't mention the Goth invasion of Spain, The Huns invading all the way to the city of Rome. Nor did you mention the 8 Crusades that Christians visited upon the Middle East. Interesting the ways in which you chose to be selective.

And shall we mention the Germanic tribes of Angles and Saxons invading the Celtic population of Britain. Or the English invading Ireland? Or perhaps, we could mention the Swedes invading Russia in the 10 century?

How many of these wars and invasions used religion as an excuse to try to acquire additional lands and wealth?

r45 your whataboutism is tiresome.

You must be totally ignorant to not see the problems Muslims have been causing in Europe.

R45 = Why we lose elections.

Oh okay so because European tribes warred with other Euorpean tribes hundreds and hundreds of years ago the current situation with Muslims in Europe should not be discussed. Got it.

[quote][R42], a few would be [R10], [R23], [R24], and perhaps a few others.

^ The profound stupidity of menluvinguy is on full display with the above.

r 48 I would more readily accept what you said if you EVER used the words a small number, or a subset. But no, it's always THE MUSLIMS. Again, back to the monolithic damnation of a large group of people with different histories and different interactions with the local population.

In the US, Trump rode to power by condemning ALL immigrants from south of the border as murderers, rapists, thieves, and criminals. I'm sad that you can't see the similarity of language and the lack of nuance in your arguments.

Are Muslims who commit crimes deported? Can they be legally?

I know we're all supposed to be a global village and celebrate multiculturalism and diversity and everybody's the same and all that shit, but the reality is that some cultures just fucking suck. They're regressive and oppressive and at complete odds with Western ideals.

[quote]I notice you didn't mention the Goth invasion of Spain, The Huns invading all the way to the city of Rome. Nor did you mention the 8 Crusades that Christians visited upon the Middle East.

Gee...I didn't know those populations are still invading ...

Right now were talking about the year 2025 and Islam:

[quote]r 48 I would more readily accept what you said if you EVER used the words a small number, or a subset. But no, it's always THE MUSLIMS. Again, back to the monolithic damnation of a large group of people with different histories and different interactions with the local population.

The philosiphies, end goals etc. are all the same. Global caliphate. It's not like they make a secret of it.

Assholes like you give true liberals a bad name. We can see an oppresive cult and recognize it for what it is. I'm sure you don't agree with Christian Nationalists but it's basically very similar.

Of course I can see it, but how can a population of Muslims which are 15% or fewer in every country in Europe take over all the governments, and police all the non-Muslim people? That's illogical on the face of it. Under the most optimistic of outlooks for unchecked immigration and wildly high birth rates, Muslims could not possible reach 50% of the populations of these countries in the next century, but there is hand-wringing as though such a thing is imminent.

[quote]Of course I can see it, but how can a population of Muslims which are 15% or fewer in every country in Europe take over all the governments, and police all the non-Muslim people?

^ See what he does here?

Completely oblivious to and/or ignoring the following:

The BBC report on Macron's speech:

"While separatism implied Muslims living in a parallel society in France, "entryism means getting involved in republican infrastructure… in order to change it from the inside. It requires dissimulation… and it works from the bottom up," the official said."

"In a copy of the report published in Le Figaro newspaper, the authors identified the Federation of Muslims of France (FMF) as the main French emanation of the historic Muslim Brotherhood, which was founded 100 years ago to promote a return to core Islamic values."

"They said the FMF controlled 139 places of worship in France, with a further 68 affiliated – in all around 7% of the total. The organisation also ran some 280 associations, in sports, education, charity and other fields, as well as 21 schools."

"The aim of the movement was to set up "ecosystems at local level" to "structure the lives of Muslims from birth till death".

"[The movement's] officials, who are hardened activists, enter into a relationship with the local authority… Social norms – the veil, beards, dress, fasting - are gradually imposed as the ecosystem solidifies," the authors write."

People say it's racism z but it has both to do with race, it's about integration. It's the fresh off the boatness of first generations. Second, third generations adapt and mix in just fine.

But second and third generations feel unwelcome in countries they were born in, when people ask things like where are you really from? Telling them to go back is just wrong.

This is why immigration needs to have careful quotas. It's not race. They were bitching about Polish, Russian, Serbian and Ukrainian immigrants. It's about feeling connected to others.

Also this: "how can a population of Muslims which are 15% or fewer in every country in Europe"

They always do that: "We'll it's only 15% of the population" As if Muslims are evenly distributed throughout the country. They are not. They are most often concentrated in cities, where for instance where places like Tower Hamlets are 35% Muslim. Or Birmingham where it is 30 % of the population. It profoundly changes the culture.

Using R57's logic: Muslim Americans account for a small percentage of the total U.S. population, with estimates ranging from approximately 1.1% to 1.3%

And yet in , Hamtramck, Michigan, Muslims are the majority.

Below is a photo of the city council. Click on it. Note the diversity...

If they were all white male fundamentalist Evangelical Christians I wonder what R57 would have to say about it...

That’s a terrifying photo.

R36, Jennifer Lopez speaks Spanish fluently. She has multiple albums out that are primarily filled with songs written & sang in Spanish.

Most children of immigrants will speak fluent English by the time they hit 1st grade.

It’s absolutely idiotic to promote the idea that Hispanic immigrants shouldn’t teach their children how to speak, read & write properly in the language spoken at home by their parents.

Being able to speak, read & write in multiple languages is an asset, not a deficiency.

I've read predictions from experts who write about mass migration due to climate change in our future. That clearly is not going to go well. I guess that will be the end of of it all. The last people fighting over scraps.

[quote] I've read predictions from experts who write about mass migration due to climate change in our future.

These are the idiots who want open borders. It’s an excuse to usher in the third world because colonialism.

[quote] Most children of immigrants will speak fluent English by the time they hit 1st grade.

We’re referring to Mexicans and no, they don’t. You have no fucking idea what goes on in this country.

r66 you are an idiot. I work in retail management. Most small hispanic children speak both english and spanish fluently and frequently translate for their parents. Hispanics are extremely americanized. They are nothing like Muslims.

[quote]filled with songs written & sang in Spanish.

R63, is English [bold]your[/bold] first language?

[quote] However, when the Syrian war came, Germany took in half a million Syrians, with almost no preparation, and the people who came were there out of desperation, not because they had any interest in learning about German culture or way of life.

Yeah, this seems to have been a real trigger for the anti-immigration upsurge. I'd be curious if Syrians are starting to return home. I'm sure Syria isn't exactly a great place but still, with Assad kicked out, the situation has changed a lot and people who really were fleeing for their lives I think would be able to return if they wanted these days.

R63 = Jennifer Lopez.

[quote] It’s absolutely idiotic to promote the idea that Hispanic immigrants shouldn’t teach their children how to speak, read & write properly in the language spoken at home by their parents.

Agree, this is a crazy idea. It's one thing to say that we need a common language and everyone in the U.S. should at least try to learn and speak English as a first or second (or third or whatever) language.

But the panic some people have if anybody ever speaks any other language, like they must be consorting with demons if they don't speak God's own language, is nuts. We should consider it a huge resource that so many people come here speaking other languages and do what we can to help their kids keep that knowledge. We run into practical difficulties of course with some languages, but for a major American language like Spanish, it makes sense to support bilingual education wherever we can.

I was in Walmart practicing my Spanish with a random Cuban guy and his family, and you can't even imagine the looks I was getting from the other (white) shoppers in the produce department. You'd have thought fire was blazing out of my mouth.

Same thing with the little convenience store up the road. There are some Mexican construction workers living tucked away in a hard-to-see nook in my neighborhood, and I started talking to them a few weeks ago when I was on my evening walk. One of them was in line waiting to pay and I chatted with him for a little bit, and the horrible old scraggly dude with a long gray beard behind him in line looked like he wanted to kill us. I turned to him and said, "I like to practice my Spanish," and he replied, "There's too damned many of them here already."

That's life in Deplorable Haven, FL.

R72 I live in a Trump voting town where at least 25% of the population is Hispanic. People here get along well. I think it depends on where you live.

For some reason, they feel like victims even though they are some of the wealthiest countries. And the Western Left thinks they are victims even though they are the richest and sovereign countries. The white leftists have many loose screws in their brains. Basically leftism itself is a mental illness.

I know all about the Spanish. It's the feeling of being left out, that's all. If they knew Spanish, it would be no problem.

We're doing more bilingual schools to bridge this gap anyway. The sad thing is, Spanish speaking Latinos are speaking the language of the European colonizers. The native languages and affinity for poetry are being lost. It's a good thing for Americans to learn French and Spanish, the other two languages on this continent. But those are European languages and the native languages are being forgotten.

People complain about the Aztecs doing sacrifices to their Gods but the Spanish Inquisition was burning people at the stake for heresy. Not a lot of difference really.

R72 Fun to learn a second language. But I suspect English will become our national language any day now. In which case, that should be a goal for all immigrants legal or otherwise.

The former Spanish colonies are a fucking basket case mess. They just didn't know how to do it like the English, for numerous reasons.

Spanish are far from blameless, r78, but the constant interfering in a lot of South American countries from the US (Chile, Argentina) in the 20th century did not help their current status.