Sweet Charity (1969)

"Rocky Horror" is one of the few screen adaptations of a stage musical that' actually works. I'd argue the Russell-Wood "Gypsy" is another.

OP “Full on hippie” had taken off in CA by 1965, first in SF and certainly by 1966. Read the essays in Didion’s 1979 “The White Album” mostly magazine pieces first published in the mid-60’s.

It never got made into a movie musical, justifiably, but Jerry Herman’s “Mack and Mabel” has some great songs and the worst book imaginable.

R1, I think the "Rhythm of Life" number in the Broadway show was staged as if the chorus what used to be called "beatniks" in thrall to "Big Daddy," who is presented as the founder of a religion founded on jazz.

The original Broadway production was conceived as a wonderfully wacky and satiric cartoon with highly stylized and minimal sets.

The movie OTOH with its inevitably realistic settings and locations often becomes maudlin and and simply too real. OP, as you mention, those few musical numbers were wisely shot by Fosse to be performative and escape the ordinary realism of the rest of the film.

I think t's impossible from valley of the dolls sounds like there's gotta be something. Can anyone else hear it?

No, R5. The tempo and some of the syncopations are similar, but the time signature and the melody of the two songs are very different.

R2 Popism: The Warhol Sixties! does a really good job of describing how the whole aesthetic morphed from beatnik to hippie. Everything changed aesthetically very quickly in 1968 but this movie doesn't really reflect any of that change.

The “Rhythm of Life” sequence seems to understand the counterculture about as well as the sitcoms of the time did, which is not very well.

The basis for the original Broadway production, Fellini’s “Nights of Cabiria”, is perhaps my number one film of all time. The sequence where she hides overnight in the closet is very similar, right down to the pratfalls, in both films.

I absolutely love this movie, OP, which is odd, because although I am a musical theater lover, I can count on one hand how many stage-to-screen transfers I enjoy. More than that, I prefer the movie over the stage show.

It is very, very maudlin, much to it's detriment, but so is the source material, Nights of Cabiria (that film being even darker). The scene when she goes to apply for a job and they think it's a setup joke is humiliating, but she's such a sport for going through with it. I've felt that way when I knew I was underqualified at a job interview. That scene is not in the stage version.

And the ending is a heartbreaker. I liked the moving of Where Am I Going to the end after Oscar walks out, and she tries to save face when calling her friends back at the Fandango.

This used to be my go-to "break up" movie I'd watch and sob to when my man done me wrong. But now, as a grownup, I see it as a truly optimistic ending about a person finding their INDEPENDENCE. And that to me is the greatest part of the story, and the best possible payoff.

I saw a local theater production of Sweet Charity in the spring. I know the endings in the show and movie are different, I prefer the movie when he walks out on her at the JP. But the production I saw, man, the Oscar was so good I burst into tears when he dumped Charity.

I actually PREFER the movie over the show, because it cuts a lot of the fat in the score (unfortunately also sacrificing "Baby Dream Your Dream," which would've been a showstopper with Chita Rivera and Paula Kelly. I like "My Personal Property" much more than "Charity's Soliloquy" etc.

And Fosse is at his choreographer genius best here. Even my friends who hate musicals recognize "Big Spender" and "Rich Man's Frug" as high pop-art.

[quote]The “Rhythm of Life” sequence seems to understand the counterculture about as well as the sitcoms of the time did, which is not very well.

The number is a satire of the counterculture, a joke song about a religion based on jazz. ("And the voice said, 'Daddy, there's a million pigeons waiting to be hooked on new religions....")

R10, I agree with much of what you wrote, but "My Personal Property" is a replacement for "You Should See Yourself," not for "Charity's Soliloquy," even though the latter was also cut from the movie (wisely, as it would never have worked in a movie).

Another vote for “My Personal Property”.

The movie ending of “Charity” very closely aligns with the ending of “Nights of Cabiria” with the young people giving her hope.

But the ending of “Cabiria” makes me bawl like a baby.

I just wish Fosse had not kept pausing “I Love to Cry at Weddings” as it kills the flow and it’s such a fun song.

I saw the movie before I saw the show. I had liked My Personal Property OK until I heard You Should See Yourself which I like a lot better. I hate that they cut Charity's Soliloquy. Maybe, as some said above, it was wise for them to do so but I just hate it when they cut memorable numbers from movie versions like they did with Class or especially When Velma Takes the Stand in Chicago.

As far as the film version of Sweet Charity, I think some of the film's esthetics have not aged so well especially the constant zooms and the freeze frames. In the 60s everyone seemed to be going cuckoo with the in and out zooms. I think the films that refused to follow that trend like TSoM look far more sophisticated and classic nowadays.

R16, the movie is too long as it is. Losing those numbers doesn't hurt it but putting them in would have made the movie drag even more.

What about Shirley vs Gwen?

R16, You Should See Yourself and Charity's Soliloquy are kind of redundant and don't move the plot forward.

"You Should See Yourself" is a great song because it encapsulates a major point of the story: That Charity so badly wants someone to love her that she is willing to delude herself as to a man's true nature. "You should see yourself in my eyes," she sings -- just before the guy she's singing to steals her purse and throws her into a lake in Central Park.

"My Personal Property" is a nice, fun song but it really doesn't illuminate the character at all, and reportedly it was written to get money from the NYC tourism bureau!

Charity's soliloquy would not have worked in the movie because Charity sings it as direct address to the audience. You could argue that's also true of "I'm a Brass Band," but some people feel that number doesn't really work in the movie, either :-)

R3 I have that on a playlist along with Something Better than This lol

“I’m tissue paper on a comb!” is an inane lyric.

No it isn't, R22. The lyric lists all different types of music, from "the bells of St. Peter's in Rome" to "tissue paper on a comb." Sorry if you don't get it.

Like the person above, who posted that "The Rhythm of Life" doesn't understand the counterculture, whereas the real problem is that person doesn't understand the song.

You can see Gwen doing "I'm a Brass Band" and "If My Friends Could See Me Now" from The Ed Sullivan Show on YouTube.

Friends.

[quote]“I’m tissue paper on a comb!” is an inane lyric.

Silly you.

I never saw SC on stage until the 1985 revival with Debbie Allen. So much better than the movie. And funny! The movie is too depressing. They should have gone with the happy ending. But I do love Paula Kelly.

[quote]It never got made into a movie musical, justifiably, but Jerry Herman’s “Mack and Mabel” has some great songs and the worst book imaginable.

Same goes for "Chess."

I get that the resolved the whole point of Soliloquy with two or three lines from Charity's girlfriends but I still miss it. And I'm with R27 that the movie is seriously depressing. I don't know how the show ended originally but I liked the way the finished it in the Cristina Applegate version where she tells Oscar, "Up yours!" It's not a happy ending but it's a happier ending than the movie.

What’s the original ending of the Broadway show?

Gwen picks herself up out of the lake and says "did you ever have one of those days?" Ruth Buzzi runs onstage in a fairy princess costume and says that Tonight will be the night. She turns around and she has a sign advertising a new TV show. Charity says at least she didn't get tattooed this time and repeats the same dance she did at the beginning. Then a sign comes down saying "She lived hopefully ever after." Curtain.

The Applegate production was amazing. She really proved herself. I saw Molly Ringwald do it regionally as well—also very good.

Christina Applegate should have had a much bigger/better career, but she's had a lot of health issues.

Christina Applegate was terrific and I love that they put Charity's Soliloquy back after cutting it for the 1985 revival. And she was dancing on a broken foot! Very enjoyable production but Denis O'Hare could have brought it down a notch.

Yes, the ending of SWEET CHARITY in the original Broadway production was quite a lame ending to an overall terrific show, and definitely had to be rewritten for the movie (and for revivals).

It is also boring onstage.

Rhythm of Life with Sammi Davis and a very young Ben Vereen was phenomenal. I just think it was a little too much for its time. There is no choreographer since Foose who could fill the entire screen with dancers

I think the thing about SC is that, cinematically, it is so rooted in the 1960s. Never really blunt enough with Charity being basically a prostitute and my all-time favorite tell is the zoom-out camera work. First Charity is in a close-up and then the camera pulls away about 100 yards as she stands there with one hand stretched upwards and feet splayed.

As somebody mentioned above, the film versions of SC and “Nights of Cabiria” have a similar ending. In SC, Charity sadly sits on a bench in the park and a bunch of hippie kids (including Bud Cort) walk by and wish her peace. And Charity starts to smile.

“Cabiria” finds the heroine destitute and homeless , as Oscar has stolen her money and Cabiria has sold her home. She encounters a bunch of young Italian youth partying and their energy slowly has her smiling through her tears as she looks at the audience and smiles at us and nods at us good night. And I cry every time.

The endings of the Charities from 1966 to 2010.

I'm not a huge SC fan despite the fact the i was a HUGE Shirley Mac fan until I read 'Lucky Me' by her daughter. And to think Bob Fosse's next film was Cabaret, which imo is and was a masterpiece.

R39, Pauline Kael said that despite Cabiria's environment, it never changes her gullibility, which we finally see is her saving grace. Her walk was compared to Chaplin's and it inspired Charity's opening and closing dance.

I got to go to a one night only concert version with complete choreography of "Sweet Charity" where Debbie Allen, Donna McKechnie, Bebe Neuwirth, Chita Rivera AND Gwen Verdon shared the role of Charity. It was so cool. The scene where Charity was in the closet, Marla Maples as Ursula hit the door so hard Gwen who was hunched down actualy fell over and everybody gasped but she was fine.

I can only imagine that those of you who prefer the movie to the stage never saw the original Broadway production. Which was brilliant. Smart and sassy and never remotely sentimental or maudlin. And, of course those dances with Gwen and the comic timing of Helen Gallagher and Thelma Oliver (who?).

Wasn't there some hilarious review of Molly Ringwald as Charity that said her dancing resembled a frightened deer trying to jump over a snow bank?

If you saw the original Broadway production in 1966, you're around 80.

I'm 76, r46.

I saw the 1986 revival for Debbie Allen (although I saw it later in the run, with Ann Reinking, who was charming), and it had almost all the original staging and Fosse choreography, so I feel like i have a great idea of what the original looked like. The choreography for "Rich man's Frug" was almost exactly like that of the movie.

R44 R47, yeah but you look 45, right.

R43. And a chair poor John McMartin was sitting on broke. The most thrilling thing in that concert was Chita opening the show and everything she did after that.

I preferred Ann Reinking to Debbie Allen but I hated her wig. I also saw Bebe as Charity and, as usual, she was chilly.

Bebe seems like a bad choice for Charity but a good choice for either of the friends.

When I first watched it on home video, they kept the intermission which occurred during the stalled elevator scene. I thought that was strange place to have an intermission.

And not only did I see Gwen Verdon in SWEET CHARITY on Broadway, the following fall of 1967 I saw Chita Rivera as Charity in Boston (as a college student) in the national tour.

That original Broadway ending seems extremely anticlimactic.

Agreed, R54. It's as if they really had no idea how to end the show, so somebody -- presumably Neil Simon? -- came up with the joke about the good fairy, and they felt that was the best they could do.

I have very mixed feelings about the ending of the movie version. On the one hand, it is quite jarring that we suddenly are confronted with all these flower-children or "hippie" characters, when we have seen no evidence of such people for the entirety of the film up to that point. But on the other hand, the ending is bittersweet and moving, and it is modeled very closely on the ending of the source material, the movie NIGHTS OF CABIRIA. So I guess I have come to really appreciate that ending even if it is a bit jarring, for the reason I noted.

But in Cabiria the kids at the end of the movie are from the same group as the ones from the beginning of the movie who rescue her from the water or a similar group, so there is a connection. You're right that the flower children at the end of Charity seem disconnected.

I watched the movie again last night because of this discussion and found that I liked it a lot better this time than ever before. I think MacLaine is excellent in it, replicating some of Giulietta Masina's wide eyed innocence in the Fellini film without her hardness. And the dancing, hers and everyone else's, is really astounding.

I watched both endings and I still think the Christina Applegate version ending is the best of all, for our time.

I never thought the children at the beginning of Cabiria are the same ones at the end. The boys at the beginning look about five years younger than the ones at the end.

[quote]Bebe seems like a bad choice for Charity but a good choice for either of the friends

Bebe won the Tony for supporting playing "NIckie" to Debbie Allen's "Charity".

[quote] I have very mixed feelings about the ending of the movie version. On the one hand, it is quite jarring that we suddenly are confronted with all these flower-children or "hippie" characters, when we have seen no evidence of such people for the entirety of the film up to that point.

As with the "Rhythm of Life" members, the flower-children or "hippie" characters were introduced when Charity is in the real world. None of them would have been in her Dance Hall or a movie star's apartment where most of the show takes place.

[quote] I never thought the children at the beginning of Cabiria are the same ones at the end. The boys at the beginning look about five years younger than the ones at the end.

I didn't mean to say they were the same, but the ones at the end are evocative of the ones at the beginning, similar environment, both "save" Cabiria, etc.

As a gayling seeing Sweet Charity on Broadway in 1966 I was totally surprised and charmed with the ending as staged. As I said upthread, the entire production was conceived by Fosse as a wacky (but very sophisticated) cartoon so the ending seemed appropriate.

Ruth Buzzi who played The Good Fairy, of course, gained fame on Laugh-In the following year and I could say I saw her when...

R58, but the hippies in the "Rhythm of Life" number in the movie are extremely cartoonish and stylized, whereas the ones in the final sequence of the movie are very realistic. So I still think there's a disconnect.

P.S., here's a fun fact: In addition to Bud Cort, one of the "flower children" who appear at the end of SWEET CHARITY is Kristoffer Tabori, who went on to become an actor and director of note.

[quote] I think it's impossible from valley of the dolls sounds like there's gotta be something. Can anyone else hear it?

R5 Yes, I hear the similarity.

The music for “There’s Gotta Be Something Better Than This” was composed by Cy Coleman by 1966.

The music for “It’s Impossible” was composed by Andre Previn and/or John Williams by 1967 (there are different attributions in the film vs. the soundtrack album). I think the lyrics are atrociously obtuse, like they were written by someone who had taken too many dolls. Maybe that was deliberate.

It’s a hands-down win for Coleman’s 1966 song, and it may have influenced whoever wrote the music for 1967’s “It’s Impossible.”

I was watching this once on DVD when my roommate wandered by. He recognized the “Rich Man’s Frug” sequence but had no idea what it was from. He said he’d been in a bar once and when the frug sequence came on the TV, everybody just stopped and watched it, mesmerized.

P.S., here's a fun fact: Ben Vereen is in “Rich Man’s Frug” and "The Rhythm Of Life" dances.

Lee Roy Reams is also in those numbers -- that's him with Ben Vereen in the image above.

[quote]Ruth Buzzi who played The Good Fairy,

A role many of us have taken on in our personal lives.

Fosse loved Ben Vereen.

Besides Suzanne Charny and her ponytail and Ben Vereen, are there any other recognizable dancers in the film? I like how one of the dancers is a bald ginger. He stands out because he looks so unique.

With Fosse's long history of choreographing Broadway musicals is it any wonder that all of the dancers in the Sweet Charity film had danced for him onstage? And certainly some who were in Charity onstage.

Charlene Ryan who was GoToHell Kitty in the original Chicago was in the movie and also in the original SC. She replaced Helen Gallagher as Nicki when Gallagher replaced Verdon. She also was Sheila in the first touring company of ACL. Bennett reportedly modeled certain parts of the character on Ryan. She was in Coco and since she was 6 feet tall, he used her height to great advantage.

Another fun fact. The old lady who wishes Charity a good morning is none other than Mean Mother Dexter Judith Lowry.

No offense to Helen Gallagher but I wonder why they didn't find a bigger name to replace Gwen. Charity closed two weeks after Gwen left.

The lead dancer in Rich Man's Frug on Broadway was Barbara Sharma.

Is Charny also one of the taxi dancers in the film?

Another dancer is Chelsea Brown who was on Laugh-in then emigrated to Australia.

Because in this thread, I rewatched it today. Sooo much dead space. The Vittorio episode is endless.

The musical numbers are great. But god, the movie drags.

[quote]No offense to Helen Gallagher but I wonder why they didn't find a bigger name to replace Gwen. Who would that have been, r72?

R77, who WASN'T a bigger name than Helen Gallagher.

Like who, r78?

"NBC Presents 'The Good Fairy'" made more sense in the mid 1960s, since it was a riff on the TV show "The Millionaire," which was about a rich man who would grant wishes. When I saw the show in 1986 I was only 20, and had never heard of that TV show, so i was very confused--it seemed like a desperate abbreviated way to end the show.

Obviously, there would be VERY few women to choose from who were equipped to dance, act, and sing the role of Charity and who were also "big names." Helen Gallagher has already played the title role in a Broadway musical, so she was a pretty big name. I don't remember why Chita didn't take over the role on Broadway, but I seem to recall maybe it was because she was doing it elsewhere?

I want to know what corner of Central Park she is in at the very last shot. I don’t recognize the building (probably long gone) or where it would be that it has a sign pointing to the Lincoln Tunnel. Central Park South maybe?

[quote]As far as the film version of Sweet Charity, I think some of the film's esthetics have not aged so well especially the constant zooms and the freeze frames. In the 60s everyone seemed to be going cuckoo with the in and out zooms.

I agree with your assessment, except you don't place the blame on the film's esthetics where it belongs, with Fosse. Don't get me wrong, I think he became a brilliant director. But to me, this movie, aside from a few of the musical numbers, it a total miss. The Rhythm of Life in the movie seems totally disconnected from the rest of the movie.

Janis Paige. Juliet Prowse. Carol Lawrence. They all played Charity at some point and all were bigger names than Helen.

And Gretchen Wyler!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Believe it or not there were still "clubs" in Times Square that featured Taxi Dancers (I think that's what those girls were called back then) who could be be bought for a dance (or whatever) during the initial run of Sweet Charity.

[quote]I want to know what corner of Central Park she is in at the very last shot. I don’t recognize the building (probably long gone) or where it would be that it has a sign pointing to the Lincoln Tunnel. Central Park South maybe?

After Charity meets the hippies and she responds positively to them wishing her love, she walks through the park and first encounters an old couple obviously in love, then looks up and sees a couple of birds flying overhead. Then she exits the park at what is pretty clearly the southeast corner -- you can barely make out the Plaza Hotel in the background, and even more clearly make out the marquee of the Paris theater. As she walks into the distance, the legend comes up on screen: "And she lived hopefully ever after."

Rita Moreno. In fact, Universal wanted her for the Chita part.

R88, if you're suggesting that Rita Moreno could have replaced Gwen in the Broadway production of CHARITY, I really don't think she would have wanted to play that kind of serious dance role eight times a week at that point in her career, and maybe not at any point in her career.

R83 Of course I place the blame on Fosse. I absolutely love his choreographies and the way he conceptualized his shows but I never loved the esthetics of his films, even his alleged masterpiece Cabaret which I thought was much more better on stage than it ever was on film.

R90, I can certainly understand if you don't like the changes that were made in CABARET from the stage to the film version, but as far as how well the film is directed, I think there's general agreement that Fosse did a masterful job. Can you explain what you don't like about his direction of the movie, and what you mean by Fosse's "esthetics?"

R90= Jill Haworth

Rita was almost a decade younger than Gwen or Helen and was already doing Damn Yankees in regional theater. Six years after Sweet Charity, she was doing The Electric Company by day and The Ritz by night. She could have handled it with no problems and she certainly had/has a bigger name than Helen.

I don't think doing DAMN YANKEES in regional theater is quite equivalent to doing SWEET CHARITY on Broadway. If Rita Moreno had had the ability and desire to do a major dance role in a Broadway show, I think it would have happened.

I don't think Rita could have even sung Charity, much less danced her.

R94, Chita, give it a rest.

Rita could never have gotten the soft side of Charity right plus she can't sing.

Rita could have played Charity and Marni Nixon's voice could have been dubbed over her.

They didn't give me the job because I am a LATINA!

MacClaine is terrific in "I'm A Brass Band"

Baby Spice totally ripped off Rich Man's Frug for her shitty single 20 years ago.

R97 and Gwen could? Rita has a good voice but it's hilarious that there's some high bar with Verdon signing.

It was said Gwen often dropped Where Am I Going? from performances because it was so hard for her to sing.

I would have loved to have seen it with Verdon because she had that great wistful sweetness to her that (at least on the OBC) does the part justice. No one else I've actually seen play that role has had that quality. I would have liked to have seen Christina Applegate play it, though,.

Don't forget that it was Jenna Elfman than Marisa Tomei *than* Applegate.

^ then *then*

R104 - yes Verdon had a lighter body than MacLaine who is rather bovine.

Did anyone see Sutton Foster play Charity off Broadway a few years back? I'm sure she got the whore part right.

I love Sutton. I would have loved to see that.

Sutton was horribly miscast as Charity. And it was an awful, dark, minimalist production.

So it was like Sweet Cabiria.

R110 Hi Deb! Sorry about Hugh