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Why do gay men in general (and Dataloungers in particular) have such special fondness for celebrity women who are huge messes?

I'm not sure why they are so particularly endearing to us, but they are. Impossible mess Liza Minnelli gets tons of affection here, even more than someone more productive and successful in her later years than Streisand. Britney Spears is loved for being a giant mess, and so is brenda Divkson (although no one in the universe seems to be paying her attention outside of here).

Weirdly enough, though, I've notived gay men who preemptiveely announce they are giant messes are not much liked, like Daniel Levy and Billy Porter.

by Anonymousreply 19September 11, 2025 12:21 AM

I don’t. Queen Bey is everything.

by Anonymousreply 1September 10, 2025 3:30 AM

Because they remind us of ourselves

by Anonymousreply 2September 10, 2025 3:32 AM

Somewhat related thread.

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by Anonymousreply 3September 10, 2025 3:47 AM

I think it's because they embody the feminine and the masculine paradigm in a way that many gay men empathize with. Many, if not all of these women—despite having feminine traits and being women—simultaneously exhibit a sort of recklessness that is associated with masculinity and coded as such. A lot of gay men usually have at least one female cultural figure like this in their lives; we're attracted to them like moths to a flame because we see ourselves in them and understand their plight in some way.

She might be a controversial one, but my personal favorite "hot mess" has always been Courtney Love, who I think is a perfect example of this on both an aesthetic and personality level. She has always had an affinity for extremely feminine aesthetics, but oftentimes crossed with some sort of disorder—the vintage dresses were beautiful but ragged, and she went heavy on makeup but it was always a bit smeared and unkempt looking. There was a recklessness about her even in the way she presented herself, despite it coming in a feminine package. On top of that, her personality was boisterous, loud, and aggressive (stereotypically masculine) in a way that most women simply are not. Throw in all of her drug problems and personal drama, her alternately sad/wrathful song lyrics, and you have a perfect example of an extremely conflicted, chaotic figure who succinctly expressed rage but also had a profound vulnerability and sensitive side. Women like this speak to us in a way no one else really can.

by Anonymousreply 4September 10, 2025 4:08 AM

We identify with their struggles and they ours.

by Anonymousreply 5September 10, 2025 4:12 AM

Ha ha ha! I’ll say, r5!

by Anonymousreply 6September 10, 2025 4:15 AM

I lure them into the park at night and feast on their blood.

by Anonymousreply 7September 10, 2025 4:17 AM

Stephen Miller, is that you at r7?

by Anonymousreply 8September 10, 2025 4:23 AM

Read “how to be gay” by David Halperin

by Anonymousreply 9September 10, 2025 4:35 AM

We are masters at the cultivation of articulated rage, and many of us see them as great mouthpieces for it.

And Courtney Love is wicked smart on levels that typically cause men's balls to shrink.

by Anonymousreply 10September 10, 2025 5:03 AM

Courtney Love is a paranoid junkie.

by Anonymousreply 11September 10, 2025 5:19 AM

R4’s intellect is sexy.

by Anonymousreply 12September 10, 2025 5:23 AM

I don't undershtand

by Anonymousreply 13September 10, 2025 2:28 PM

Messhes

by Anonymousreply 14September 10, 2025 9:40 PM

[quote] Read “how to be gay” by David Halperin

I already know how to be gay, thanks.

by Anonymousreply 15September 10, 2025 10:02 PM

Mine is D Baby - commemorating fallen urban soldiers and tapping a sip out on the graves of her dead homies. It’s so sad! 😞

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by Anonymousreply 16September 10, 2025 10:07 PM

Judy was one of the most talented singers ever. She also had a lot of pain and struggle throughout her life. Despite that, she had a good heart, which is hard to encounter in Hollywood. At a time when gay men were oppressed beyond belief, they identified with her struggles, and she theirs.

by Anonymousreply 17September 10, 2025 10:11 PM

Because Brandi Granville’s face has been overtaken by “parasites”.

by Anonymousreply 18September 10, 2025 11:47 PM

Apparently the OP is unaware of the pattern of artistic talent, in fine arts or popular arts, often being accompanied by social or psychological imbalances or just plain purposeful joie de vivre carried too far.

As for divas, a diva is a diva and the concept of "mess" is just my first statement taking things to the "great artist + great personality + dedication to performance art as a lifestyle" level. And women simply do it better, and take advantage of the perquisites and bigotry left to them in order to do it.

The are divine monsters. They MUST be Cleopatra as Godzilla.

We certainly don't want to fuck them.

by Anonymousreply 19September 11, 2025 12:21 AM
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