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Why did Hollywood choose Audrey Hepburn instead of Shirley Jones for My Fair Lady?

I understand them wanting an established star for My Fair Lady and that’s why they passed on Julie Andrews.

But Shirley Jones was probably close to being on the same level as Audrey Hepburn at the time? She was already famous for Oklahoma, Carousel, and The Music Man. She also won an Oscar for Elmer Gentry.

She could actually sing. But could she do two different accents? She arguably could have been a better Eliza Doolittle than Audrey, no?

by Anonymousreply 157September 11, 2025 10:58 PM

No..

by Anonymousreply 1September 6, 2025 11:41 PM

OP, what a question ! I don't even know where to begin...

by Anonymousreply 2September 6, 2025 11:42 PM

If Shirley Jones couldn't even manage a halfway decent Mainer accent in "Carousel"--from a state in her own country--how the hell was she going to do a Cockney accent AND a posh British accent in MFL?

by Anonymousreply 3September 6, 2025 11:48 PM

Are you HIGH, Clairee?

by Anonymousreply 4September 6, 2025 11:50 PM

OP I think I love you.

by Anonymousreply 5September 6, 2025 11:51 PM

Shirley Booth would’ve been memorable as well.

by Anonymousreply 6September 6, 2025 11:52 PM

What about Shirley Hemphill?

by Anonymousreply 7September 6, 2025 11:58 PM

Shirley MacLaine?

by Anonymousreply 8September 7, 2025 12:05 AM

What am I, chopped liver?

by Anonymousreply 9September 7, 2025 12:06 AM

Shirley Feeney!

by Anonymousreply 10September 7, 2025 12:06 AM

Surely you can’t be serious.

by Anonymousreply 11September 7, 2025 12:10 AM

Shirley, you can't be serious

by Anonymousreply 12September 7, 2025 12:11 AM

Shelly (Shirley) Winters

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by Anonymousreply 13September 7, 2025 12:15 AM

Why did they choose Shirley Jones instead of Audrey Hepburn for The Partridge Family is the real question.

by Anonymousreply 14September 7, 2025 12:17 AM

Audrey Hepburn was the second choice after Ethel Merman turned it down,.

by Anonymousreply 15September 7, 2025 12:18 AM

Thank you, OP. I'd like to know why they didn't pick Lotte Lenya!

by Anonymousreply 16September 7, 2025 12:20 AM

I think Lena Horne or Debbie Reynolds would have killed it.

by Anonymousreply 17September 7, 2025 12:24 AM

What about Mitzi Gaynor, OP?

by Anonymousreply 18September 7, 2025 12:26 AM

Or Jane Powell.

by Anonymousreply 19September 7, 2025 12:26 AM

How about June Allyson?

by Anonymousreply 20September 7, 2025 12:28 AM

Nancy Davis!

by Anonymousreply 21September 7, 2025 12:30 AM

Was Betty Hutton considered?

by Anonymousreply 22September 7, 2025 12:31 AM

Shirley Jone's pre- AND post-training Eliza made Dick Van Dyke's Cockney in "Mary Poppins" seem like Gielgud's Hamlet.

by Anonymousreply 23September 7, 2025 12:35 AM

Doris Day would have been ideal, and she was as big at the box office as Audrey.

by Anonymousreply 24September 7, 2025 12:37 AM

The producers knew they'd lose a fortune from her costumes because she was married to Jack at the time and he just couldn't resist going out in them.

by Anonymousreply 25September 7, 2025 12:39 AM

Fuck all of you.

Forever.

by Anonymousreply 26September 7, 2025 12:40 AM

Betty Grable turned the role down after arguing with Cecil Beaton over his insisting on long dresses.

by Anonymousreply 27September 7, 2025 12:40 AM

Norma Zimmer was available.

by Anonymousreply 28September 7, 2025 12:44 AM

Hear me out… Zasu Pitts!

by Anonymousreply 29September 7, 2025 12:50 AM

Why wasn’t Marjorie Main considered?

by Anonymousreply 30September 7, 2025 12:54 AM

Shirley Jones would have been so wrong.

Apparently they didn't think Julie Andrews was beautiful enough nor a big enough star.

But the role should have gone to Julie. IMHO the only other person right for the role was Petula Clark.

by Anonymousreply 31September 7, 2025 12:57 AM

Judy Garland was seriously considered for the role before Warner's nixed the idea. She had strong support from George Cukor, whom Judy had trusted since the MGM days. Judy had completed "I Could Go on Singing" the year before, and the overwhelming reception for that picture encouraged the studios that big musicals were in! Luckily for Judy, her television show was taking off at the same time production was underway for "Lady" and the paycheck was bigger.

by Anonymousreply 32September 7, 2025 12:58 AM

They need to revive it again on Broadway for Billy Porter.

by Anonymousreply 33September 7, 2025 1:03 AM

Turn it in O.P.

by Anonymousreply 34September 7, 2025 1:08 AM

R32 Get back to us when you know what you're talking about. I Could Go on Singing with Judy's last feature film and it wasn't a success either at the box office or with the critics

"The role of the mother is more than sticky. It is down-right disagreeable—arrogant, egotistic and selfish to an extreme. But Miss Garland tries to play it with that sort of intense solicitude that is not only patently synthetic but also betrays atrocious taste. Furthermore, she overacts badly when she sings out her heartbreak in the song,-"NYTimes

by Anonymousreply 35September 7, 2025 1:09 AM

My favorite scene from ICGOS, Garland shows her skills and range as an actress, mostly in one take.

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by Anonymousreply 36September 7, 2025 1:22 AM

The producers got the wrong Hepburn.

They should have gone with Katharine Hepburn for the lead in My Fair Lady

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by Anonymousreply 37September 7, 2025 1:28 AM

Talulah Bankhead was robbed of this role.

by Anonymousreply 38September 7, 2025 1:46 AM

R35 I'm pretty sure R32 was just kidding, going along with several of the previous silly casting suggestions in the post.

by Anonymousreply 39September 7, 2025 1:47 AM

While younger than Audrey Hepburn, Shirley Jones had Patrick a couple of years before and had already begun to look matronly, aside from likely problems she'd have had doing the accent.

It should have been Julie Andrews. Then, now, and always.

by Anonymousreply 40September 7, 2025 1:53 AM

Lucy had just perfected her cockney accent when Gary talked her out of it.

by Anonymousreply 41September 7, 2025 1:54 AM

Shirley can sing, but she can't act for shit.

by Anonymousreply 42September 7, 2025 2:05 AM

Ahem.

by Anonymousreply 43September 7, 2025 2:06 AM

I loved the original cast recording with Julie Andrews and as much as I like the score, the pairing of Rex Harrison and Audrey Hepburn in the movie always leaves me cold. Old but gentlemanly and respectful Col. Pickering would have made a better love interest.

by Anonymousreply 44September 7, 2025 2:07 AM

Leslie Caron would have nailed it.

by Anonymousreply 45September 7, 2025 2:08 AM

Yeah, Leslie Caron would have been a good choice, never thought of that before. But again, Rex Harrison was just too creepy by then.

by Anonymousreply 46September 7, 2025 2:11 AM

r28 wins the internet!

Thanks for making a Boomer spit out my drink.

by Anonymousreply 47September 7, 2025 2:18 AM

Lucille Ball was asked to star, but Gary talked her out of it.

by Anonymousreply 48September 7, 2025 4:36 AM

Leslie Caron is lovely, but she couldn’t play a Brit and had a smaller voice than even Audrey.

What about Lesley Ann Warren?

I think Audrey is fine. Julie would have been as antiseptic as she usually is.

by Anonymousreply 49September 7, 2025 4:53 AM

Other than Julie Andrews, this is the only actress who would have been right for the part. Her voice would have worked, it wasn't as great as Julie Andrews, but she was a better actress.

Watch from 1:32 and imagine her as Eliza with Professor Higgins. Of course she never would have been considered, especially in 1964 before the success of "Downtown" but it would have been interesting to see her in that role, if not on film then on Broadway.

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by Anonymousreply 50September 7, 2025 4:53 AM

And I don’t think any of them would have had chemistry with crusty old Rex. If they wanted a romance (instead of just capturing Rex’s legendary performance), they could have cast someone younger.

by Anonymousreply 51September 7, 2025 4:55 AM

We’re Sally Ann Howes and Samantha Eggar considered?

by Anonymousreply 52September 7, 2025 4:56 AM

Warners needed a massive star to offset the huge budget. Audrey delivered

by Anonymousreply 53September 7, 2025 4:57 AM

Diahann Carroll would've been perfect for the role!

by Anonymousreply 54September 7, 2025 4:59 AM

R53 Audrey looked like a million bucks.

by Anonymousreply 55September 7, 2025 5:01 AM

Petula Clark would have been great. r31. But in 1963, she was virtually unknown in the USA. She did Finian's Rainbow in '68 and Goodbye, Mr. Chips in '69 but by then she'd had 15 consecutive Top 4o Billboard singles, starting with 'Downtown' in early '65.

by Anonymousreply 56September 7, 2025 5:06 AM

R56 That's why I wrote: "Of course she never would have been considered, especially in 1964 before the success of "Downtown"

by Anonymousreply 57September 7, 2025 5:13 AM

The main problem with Audrey Hepburn in MFL is Marni Nixon’s dubbing. A terrible choice

by Anonymousreply 58September 7, 2025 5:23 AM

Wasn't Lucy offered the role?

by Anonymousreply 59September 7, 2025 5:33 AM

The main problem with Audrey in My Fair Lady is that she could not balance the broad Cockney comedy with character depth or coherence. Marni Nixon was the least of her troubles. Though perhaps if George Cukor had bothered to do more than point the camera vaguely in the direction of the actors while he had a little nap, her performance could have been properly modulated.

by Anonymousreply 60September 7, 2025 5:52 AM

Cecil B. DeMille considered Audrey Hepburn for the role of Nefretiri in "The Ten Commandments" but he decided that DL fave Anne Baxter would wear the Egyptian costumes better.

Did he make the right decision by going with campy Ann's performance? Or would Audrey have brought more sophistication to the role?

by Anonymousreply 61September 7, 2025 7:56 AM

I can't imagine Doris Day or Mitzi as a cockney.

by Anonymousreply 62September 7, 2025 8:49 AM

Why was My Fair Lady so expensive, even the titles looked cheap.

by Anonymousreply 63September 7, 2025 9:04 AM

They had to pay for the rights.

by Anonymousreply 64September 7, 2025 9:20 AM

[quote] Shelly (Shirley) Winters

My Fat Lady

by Anonymousreply 65September 7, 2025 9:37 AM

If they didn't cast Julie Andrews because they wanted a big box office star, why would they cast Petula Clark?

Even Julie was better known than Petula Clark.

by Anonymousreply 66September 7, 2025 10:53 AM

I don't think Petula was the right type, and her attempt at a movie career fizzled a few years later.

by Anonymousreply 67September 7, 2025 11:10 AM

I don't think Petula could convince Karpathy she was a princess.

by Anonymousreply 68September 7, 2025 11:22 AM

[quote]But Shirley Jones was probably close to being on the same level as Audrey Hepburn at the time?

Are you daft? Not even close to Hepburn's level. She was never a major movie star.

by Anonymousreply 69September 7, 2025 11:37 AM

[quote]Though perhaps if George Cukor had bothered to do more than point the camera ... her performance could have been properly modulated.

Proper modulation by the director is extremely important.

by Anonymousreply 70September 7, 2025 11:38 AM

Why wasn't Shirley Jones cast in Sabrina, or Charade? Or The Nun's Story? Missed opportunities!

by Anonymousreply 71September 7, 2025 11:40 AM

What I really don't understand is why Gordon MacRae wasn't cast instead of Rex Harrison.

by Anonymousreply 72September 7, 2025 11:41 AM

CBS head William S. Paley made an arrangement where CBS would finance the original Broadway production in exchange for the rights to the cast album (through Columbia Records).

Warner Bros. then purchased the film rights from CBS in February 1962 for the then-unprecedented sum of $5.5 million (equivalent to $57 million in 2024) plus 47.25% of the gross over $20 million. Paley added a condition to the Warner contract that ownership of the film negative would revert to CBS seven years following release.

In spite of her success playing Eliza Doolittle on Broadway, when Jack L. Warner acquired the film rights he replaced a then-unknown-to-filmgoers Julie Andrews in the role with Audrey Hepburn. Alan Jay Lerner broke the news to Andrews when she had moved to his production of Camelot: "I so wanted you to do it, Julie, but they wanted a name."

With a production budget of $17 million, My Fair Lady was the most expensive film shot in the United States up to that time.

MGM underbid Warner for the film rights. It would have been Arthur Freed & Vincente Minnelli's Lerner & Loewe bookend to GIGI.

by Anonymousreply 73September 7, 2025 11:55 AM

Who would MGM have cast?

by Anonymousreply 74September 7, 2025 12:27 PM

I think by that time the studio had no more contract players and independent companies were hiring out the backlot and stages.

by Anonymousreply 75September 7, 2025 12:38 PM

[quote]Who would MGM have cast?

Boring old Kathryn Grayson.

by Anonymousreply 76September 7, 2025 12:45 PM

Word on the street is that it was to have been Sophie Tucker until Cecil Beaton expressed objections.

by Anonymousreply 77September 7, 2025 12:52 PM

I would have sued when they skipped me but I had a fist up my cunt at the time.

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by Anonymousreply 78September 7, 2025 1:07 PM

R59 see R48.

by Anonymousreply 79September 7, 2025 2:22 PM

What about Mary Tyler Moore ? She could sing (?), she could dance, she could do an accent...maybe.

by Anonymousreply 80September 7, 2025 2:28 PM

[quote] ...controversy swarmed over Hepburn being cast as she too, apparently believed that Andrews, who originated the part on Broadway, should have respired the role of Eliza Doolittle in the film, but was told by Warner that had she turned down the part, the next actress to be offered it would not have been Andrews but Elizabeth Taylor, who wanted it desperately. In addition, Shirley Jones was also one of the actresses in line for the role as well had Hepburn turned it down.

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by Anonymousreply 81September 7, 2025 3:06 PM

[quote] Shirley can sing, but she can't act for shit.

She has a Best Supporting Actress Oscar, so they must have thought more highly of her acting back then.

by Anonymousreply 82September 7, 2025 3:21 PM

In 'artford, 'ereford, and 'ampshire, 'urricanes 'ardly hever 'appen!

by Anonymousreply 83September 7, 2025 3:24 PM

R73 Vincente Minnelli was still offered the film by Warner. It was really his, if he wanted it.

But he overplayed his hand, demanding more money than Warner was offering, and something like final cut. Negotiations bogged down, and Jack Warner decided to offer it to George Cukor (who hadn't had a real hit for about 10 years), much to the shock of everyone. Cukor agreed to the terms.

I remember something I read that Minnelli said years later. He was asked how his version would have been different. He said it would have had more color, for one thing. (I agree, many sets seem to be deliberately lit/painted in neutral tones.)

by Anonymousreply 84September 7, 2025 4:05 PM

Streisand was offered the role, but she wanted to play Fanny Brice, instead.

by Anonymousreply 85September 7, 2025 4:05 PM

R81 In that poster Rex Harrison looks like some evil sunburned devil preying on ivory-skinned innocent Audrey.

by Anonymousreply 86September 7, 2025 4:36 PM

After many viewing over the decades it is time to admit that Audrey Hepburn was indeed the right choice.

by Anonymousreply 87September 7, 2025 6:12 PM

[quote] He said it would have had more color, for one thing.

Vincente Minnelli was obsessed with bright colors, so that's pretty much to be expected. But I actually like Cukor's muted tones for MFL, and how the Ascot scene was famously done only in gorgeous black, white, and grey clothing. It evoked the Edwardian era beautifully.

by Anonymousreply 88September 7, 2025 6:23 PM

Vincente would have wanted to cast his daughter!

by Anonymousreply 89September 7, 2025 6:26 PM

[quote] After many viewing over the decades it is time to admit that Audrey Hepburn was indeed the right choice.

I don't see this as supportable since not only did she not sing the role but the voice they used to dub her voice (marni Nixon's) did not seem plausible as emanating from Hepburn. Even as a child I could tell she was dubbed in ehr singing.

What always strikes me as so poignant is that Hepburn loved to sing, and is enchanting in Funny Face when they used her actual little scratchy voice because she's so expressive. Marnie Nixon's voice is glorious, but it's not very expressive--the only time it really worked for me when dubbing someone else is Deborah Kerr in The King and I (since Kerr plays the character of Anna with so much reserve).

by Anonymousreply 90September 7, 2025 6:27 PM

R82 — At a time when the Academy membership was made up almost enirely of straight men, the Supporting Actress category wasn’t taken all that seriously. It might feature a good character performance from a Jo Van Fleet or Claire Trevor or Thelma Ritter, but it was just as likely to find a pretty and promising new girl in town like Grace Kelly or Terry Moore in the lists merely for being competent but fuckable.

1960 was interesting because two actresses — Shirley Jones and Janet Leigh both had roles that completely fucked with their prevailing images as girls-next-door. Of the two, Leigh gave what was by far the better performance, and she was always a better actress that Jones. But “Psycho” was the kind of violent, overtly sexual and perverse phenomenon that Hollywood didn’t want to encourage, so honoring it with Oscars was beyond the pale. So Jones won for condescending to play a whore who walks around in a full slip in “Elmer Gantry,” a performance that looks absurd now in a movie that was overrated even then.

While Leigh’s way of connecting to lonely Norman Bates in “Psycho” — which dooms her to a horrible death — still has power and poignance today.

by Anonymousreply 91September 7, 2025 6:33 PM

I wish it had been Hepburn (with a better vocal match)—and Peter O’Toole.

by Anonymousreply 92September 7, 2025 6:38 PM

I agree with you about the 1960 race, R91, but I strongly disagree with the way you characterize the Supporting Actress category of the time. Jones is actually an outlier. Yes, Grace Kelly and Terry Moore got nominated in the early 1950s for minor work, but the vast majority of nominees are character actresses like Mildred Dunnock, Lee Grant, Marjorie Rambeau, and Maureen Stapleton. The post-war winners are mostly talented actresses doing character work or movie stars in the ascendant: Anne Revere, Anne Baxter, Celeste Holm, Claire Trevor, Mercedes McCambridge, Josephine "Bubbles" Hull, Kim Hunter, Gloria Grahame, Donna Reed, Eva Marie Saint, Jo Van Fleet, Dorothy Malone, Miyoshi Umeki, Wendy Hiller, Shelley Winters. The 60s are framed by bad 'new young thing' winners Shirley Jones and Goldie Hawn, but they weren't the norm.

by Anonymousreply 93September 7, 2025 6:48 PM

[quote] At a time when the Academy membership was made up almost enirely of straight men

What does this mean? Women weren't academy members? There weren't any gay men in Hollywood?

by Anonymousreply 94September 7, 2025 8:52 PM

Shirley Jones obviously got the Oscar for playing WAY against her usual type, which is often the stuff of Oscars.

[quote] So Jones won for condescending to play a whore who walks around in a full slip in “Elmer Gantry"

The movie takes place in the 1920s. What should she have worn? It seemed appropriate to the character and period, to me.

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by Anonymousreply 95September 7, 2025 8:59 PM

There's a new version in the works-

it's called

My Fair HOMOSEXUAL starring Timotee Chalamet.

by Anonymousreply 96September 7, 2025 9:04 PM

[quote]But I actually like Cukor's muted tones for MFL, and how the Ascot scene was famously done only in gorgeous black, white, and grey clothing. It evoked the Edwardian era beautifully.

I always found the Ascot scene rather strange. It is so stylized and deliberately stagey looking. Almost cartoonish. Completely at odds with the film's general art direction.

Actually, I think I would have preferred if the whole film had been designed that way.

by Anonymousreply 97September 7, 2025 9:32 PM

R46 Leslie Caron has a French accent! I suppose they could have said Eliza lived in Paris as a child.

by Anonymousreply 98September 7, 2025 10:53 PM

Audrey was a 9+ our of 10 as far as I'm concerned. So the singing voice doesn't match her speaking voice, so what. When the movie was made, that was par for the course with most musicals. If they had found a better match for her voice she would have been a 10+. And she should have been nominated and won the Oscar over Julie's Poppins, which is not a acting feat.

by Anonymousreply 99September 7, 2025 10:58 PM

^^^Yes—though it should be remembered, The Sound of Music opened during the voting period, and reverse Norbit, probably clinched it for Julie.

by Anonymousreply 100September 7, 2025 11:56 PM

Shirley Jones had that smarmy, swinger thing going on, with the crazy eyes, looking at every man, woman, child, and aquarium fish as if she wanted desperately to fuck It. But you say she could act?

by Anonymousreply 101September 8, 2025 12:19 AM

Watch the 1938 film, Pygmalion, with Wendy Hiller as Eliza. She *was* nominated for an Oscar for Best Actress. She gets the lower-class flower girl part of the characted right, and the princess part right. Audrey Hepburn works hard, but as the slum girl, she seems a little too cute and soft. When you see Julie Andrews, she gets some of Hiller's weariness and cynicism into it. I don't think it's one of Audrey's best performances, but she's okay. Also, she's on the verge of looking a little too old for it.

by Anonymousreply 102September 8, 2025 1:00 AM

I agree that Wendy Hiller is superb, as is Leslie Howard, but I don’t think anyone, not Hiller, not Shirley Jones (!!), maybe not even Julie herself, could have acted I Could Have Danced All Night as enchantingly as Hepburn does.

by Anonymousreply 103September 8, 2025 1:09 AM

I'm sure Julie coiuld have, with Cukor directing her, and the enchantment would have included her own voice. And she was closer to the right age.

by Anonymousreply 104September 8, 2025 1:21 AM

I saw “My Fair Lady” as a kid and even then Hepburn seemed like an odd choice, probably too old for the part. She’s too winsome for the flower girl. I can picture Andrews doing it on stage, but I’m less sure she could have done it in the film—also, too old for the flower girl by that point.

R91: Hooker or slatternly roles are Oscar gold, especially if they were “against type”. Donna Reed, Dorothy Malone (although she wound up in a bunch of whore roles), Shirley Jones. More mature character actresses like Jo Van Fleet also s did ok with these roles, too. These roles also worked for best actress: Liz Taylor, Jane Fonda.

by Anonymousreply 105September 8, 2025 1:27 AM

Has any golden age actress played more hookers than Shirely MacLaine? Some Came Running (Oscar nomination), Irma La Douce, Sweet Charity.

by Anonymousreply 106September 8, 2025 1:30 AM

Hepburn was only six years older than Andrews. Why is no one fussing that Rex Harrison is way too old for either of them?!

by Anonymousreply 107September 8, 2025 1:39 AM

Has any golden age actress played more hookers

Garbo played three I can think of and maybe more - Camille, Mata Hari, and Anna Christie.

by Anonymousreply 108September 8, 2025 1:44 AM

R107 Because Higgins doesn't have to be young. It's not a romantic comedy. I always thought Rex looked the same for years, anyway. But Eliza probably wouldn't have been a single girl at 35. It's not that bad that Audrey's a little bit old, but because I'm a big classic movie fan, I'm just aware of it, having seen all her movies of the '50s and knowing she's ten years older in the movie. Harrison would have been a better age if they'd filmed it in the '50s, too.

by Anonymousreply 109September 8, 2025 1:49 AM

It’s not exactly a romantic comedy but I certainly think there is meant to be attraction between Higgins and Eliza. Otherwise, why is he so defensive about his bachelor status throughout? Why could she have danced all night?One of the reasons the film Pygmalion works so well is that Hiller and Howard are in the same age range.

by Anonymousreply 110September 8, 2025 1:57 AM

Remember that Shaw himself insisted the Eliza ends up with Freddie -not Higgins. To Eliza, Higgins is more of a father figure -a grand, larger-than-life hero as she always wished her own father to be. She is emotionally immature (and lord knows he is) and really only sees relationships in a parental sense. In Shaw's afterward it's clear that Eliza tries to mother Freddie, and she drives him away. The musical adds the bit about the slippers at the end to suggest that Eliza comes back. The original play ends with her walking out after he tells her to run various shopping errands for him.

by Anonymousreply 111September 8, 2025 2:17 AM

Elizabeth Taylor really wanted it. (big star, huge)

by Anonymousreply 112September 8, 2025 2:18 AM

Wasn’t it the movie Pygmalion that changed the ending to what we now know—and wasn’t Shaw himself the lead adapter of that screenplay (with an Oscar displayed on his mantel to boot)? Does a young woman really want to dance all night—with her father??

by Anonymousreply 113September 8, 2025 2:26 AM

Audrey was delightful in My Fair Lady.

by Anonymousreply 114September 8, 2025 2:52 AM

By Jove, I think she's got it!

by Anonymousreply 115September 8, 2025 2:57 AM

R111 The scene with the slippers was also the ending of the 1938 film.

by Anonymousreply 116September 8, 2025 3:00 AM

I never thought Janet Leigh was particularly Oscar-worthy in Psycho. She steals some money, she drives a lot, there are a lot of reactions shots, a couple of short dialogue scenes, a longer scene with Perkins, then she gets stabbed to death.

by Anonymousreply 117September 8, 2025 3:02 AM

[quote] Shirley Jones had that smarmy, swinger thing going on, with the crazy eyes, looking at every man, woman, child, and aquarium fish as if she wanted desperately to fuck It.

Oh, I'll never the way she eyefucks Pert Kelton and Little Ronnie Howard in "The Music Man," like she wants to do them both at once in the parlor, and then bring in Amaryllis.

by Anonymousreply 118September 8, 2025 3:14 AM

How would Elizabeth Taylor been as Eliza? Could she have pulled it off in 1964?

And about Freddy: did they ever consider Robert Goulet?

Why did they go with someone who audiences had never heard of and had to be dubbed?

"On the Street Where You Live", no matter what you think of it, really was the most commercially popular song of the show, I'm surprised they didn't go with a star.

And although Stanley Holloway was perfection with a capital "P"....it would have been great to see James Cagney as Doolittle.

And: would Cary Grant have been a better choice as Higgins?

by Anonymousreply 119September 8, 2025 3:40 AM

Liz was actually very good with accents and impressions. She would have had to be dubbed, like Audrey, but she would probably have done a great job with the role.

by Anonymousreply 120September 8, 2025 3:45 AM

At least she was English.

by Anonymousreply 121September 8, 2025 3:47 AM

Technically I guess ET she was English but she only lived in England until she was 7. Her parents were American and she grew up (after age 7) in LA. Her phony English accent wasn't very good, either.

by Anonymousreply 122September 8, 2025 3:53 AM

Shirley Jones??? What are you on, OP?

by Anonymousreply 123September 8, 2025 3:54 AM

Her phony English accent wasn't very good, either.

R122 = Joan Collins.

by Anonymousreply 124September 8, 2025 3:54 AM

R124 Haha!

by Anonymousreply 125September 8, 2025 4:22 AM

Why do people think Julie Andrews would have been so great as Eliza and better than Audrey Hepburn? Have they ever seen a Julie Andrews film?

by Anonymousreply 126September 8, 2025 4:26 AM

Would Robert Goulet have fucked for roles? I’m sure George Cukor tested thoroughly for the part

by Anonymousreply 127September 8, 2025 4:30 AM

R126 Maybe because she could do this...

(Show Me)

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by Anonymousreply 128September 8, 2025 4:32 AM

R126 And this:

(Wouldn't It Be Loverly)

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by Anonymousreply 129September 8, 2025 4:40 AM

Damn -Julie really was great in that role. It makes me nostalgic for the days when musicals had actual 32-bar songs with melodies and (gasp) harmonies!

by Anonymousreply 130September 8, 2025 5:08 AM

I have an Aunt Shirley in Jersey City.

by Anonymousreply 131September 8, 2025 5:09 AM

I think some of you will be shocked by how the play "Pygmalion" by GBS actually ends:

HIGGINS [rising in a fury] What! That impostor! that humbug! that toadying ignoramus! Teach him my methods! my discoveries! You take one step in his direction and I’ll wring your neck. [He lays hands on her]. Do you hear?

LIZA [defiantly non-resistant] Wring away. What do I care? I knew you’d strike me some day. [He lets her go, stamping with rage at having forgotten himself, and recoils so hastily that he stumbles back into his seat on the ottoman]. Aha! Now I know how to deal with you. What a fool I was not to think of it before! You can’t take away the knowledge you gave me. You said I had a finer ear than you. And I can be civil and kind to people, which is more than you can. Aha! That’s done you, Henry Higgins, it has. Now I don’t care that [snapping her fingers] for your bullying and your big talk. I’ll advertize it in the papers that your duchess is only a flower girl that you taught, and that she’ll teach anybody to be a duchess just the same in six months for a thousand guineas. Oh, when I think of myself crawling under your feet and being trampled on and called names, when all the time I had only to lift up my finger to be as good as you, I could just kick myself.

HIGGINS [wondering at her] You damned impudent slut, you! But it’s better than snivelling; better than fetching slippers and finding spectacles, isn’t it? [Rising] By George, Eliza, I said I’d make a woman of you; and I have. I like you like this.

LIZA. Yes: you turn round and make up to me now that I’m not afraid of you, and can do without you.

HIGGINS. Of course I do, you little fool. Five minutes ago you were like a millstone round my neck. Now you’re a tower of strength: a consort battleship. You and I and Pickering will be three old bachelors together instead of only two men and a silly girl.

Mrs. Higgins returns, dressed for the wedding. Eliza instantly becomes cool and elegant.

MRS. HIGGINS. The carriage is waiting, Eliza. Are you ready?

LIZA. Quite. Is the Professor coming?

MRS. HIGGINS. Certainly not. He can’t behave himself in church. He makes remarks out loud all the time on the clergyman’s pronunciation.

LIZA. Then I shall not see you again, Professor. Good bye. [She goes to the door].

MRS. HIGGINS [coming to Higgins] Good-bye, dear.

HIGGINS. Good-bye, mother. [He is about to kiss her, when he recollects something]. Oh, by the way, Eliza, order a ham and a Stilton cheese, will you? And buy me a pair of reindeer gloves, number eights, and a tie to match that new suit of mine, at Eale & Binman’s. You can choose the color. [His cheerful, careless, vigorous voice shows that he is incorrigible].

LIZA [disdainfully] Buy them yourself. [She sweeps out].

MRS. HIGGINS. I’m afraid you’ve spoiled that girl, Henry. But never mind, dear: I’ll buy you the tie and gloves.

HIGGINS [sunnily] Oh, don’t bother. She’ll buy em all right enough. Good-bye.

They kiss. Mrs. Higgins runs out. Higgins, left alone, rattles his cash in his pock

by Anonymousreply 132September 8, 2025 6:15 AM

[quote] When you see Julie Andrews, she gets some of Hiller's weariness and cynicism into it.

When and where did you see Julie Andrews playing Eliza?

by Anonymousreply 133September 8, 2025 6:37 AM

R129 So charming.

by Anonymousreply 134September 8, 2025 9:27 AM

[quote] Leslie Caron has a French accent! I suppose they could have said Eliza lived in Paris as a child.

She does?? I never noticed that.

by Anonymousreply 135September 8, 2025 3:28 PM

Was Vera Lynn too old by then?

by Anonymousreply 136September 8, 2025 9:20 PM

Was Vera Ellen too thin by then?

by Anonymousreply 137September 8, 2025 9:39 PM

What about Vera Hruba Ralston? Or Sonya Henie? Could it have been turned into a skating picture?

by Anonymousreply 138September 8, 2025 10:23 PM

[quote]Or Sonya Henie

And they could have cast Sonya's ex-boyfriend Liberace as Henry Higgins!

by Anonymousreply 139September 8, 2025 10:43 PM

Can’t stand Shirley. Screeching creature.

by Anonymousreply 140September 8, 2025 11:30 PM

[quote[Was Vera Lynn too old by then?

She was too old by the time of the 1938 movie of "Pygmalion."

Vera Miles might have still been young enough, though.

by Anonymousreply 141September 8, 2025 11:53 PM

Shirley Jones just wasn't on Audrey's level in terms of sophistication, charisma, or European je ne sais pas

by Anonymousreply 142September 9, 2025 12:18 AM

Audrey was the epitome of sophistication. Shirley Jones seemed common.

by Anonymousreply 143September 9, 2025 12:29 AM

Because Ethel Mermaid wasn’t available.

by Anonymousreply 144September 9, 2025 12:34 AM

In the original film Freddie is such a goof you couldn't imagine Eliza being with him in a million years. Now Jeremy Brett... I love Wendy Hiller(I Know Where I'm Going is one of my favorite films) but not in this. She has nowhere near the radiance Eliza needs for her transformation as a 'consort for a king.' Howard has nowhere near Harrison's bite, edge and energy and Cukor directs the tea party fabulously. Hepburn wears that stupendous costume it does not wear her. And her delivery is perfection. She deserved the Oscar for that scene alone. (Andrews for Sound of Music.) That costume is one of the great theatrical costumes and no one but Hepburn could wear it and get away with its absurdity and striking beauty. Get the 50th Anniversary bluray (not the one before it) or the 4k. The opening titles are beautiful but sadly the photos are 5th generation from the original camera negative so they don't shine as they should. Too bad nobody could find Beaton's original photo negatives and recreate it as they do the printing of the titles.

My real qualm with it and this is a big flaw in the work itself is how Pickering completely ignores Eliza in the return after the ball. It makes absolutely no sense for his normally considerate thoughtful behavior towards her from their first scene together when he gently offers her a chair. There should be a moment when he offers her his arm that she takes it and then he pulls it away to go back to praising Higgins but we don't even get that. Nice touch that she doesn't even kiss her father when he's about to get married. Oh another problem. When Harrison puts the teacup on his head at Ascott. I guess it got such a huge laugh in the theater they felt obligated to keep it in but it's silly and forced on film.

by Anonymousreply 145September 9, 2025 12:40 AM

Ascot

by Anonymousreply 146September 9, 2025 12:42 AM

Ethel and Danny Bonaduce should have done "Mame."

by Anonymousreply 147September 9, 2025 12:43 AM

It would have been better than the Lucy version, Susan!

by Anonymousreply 148September 9, 2025 2:13 AM

Hmmph! When I saw Wendy Hiller as Eliza in Pygmalion, all I could see was the cranky old grandma from Anne of Avonlea. She was an old lady when she was 26.

by Anonymousreply 149September 9, 2025 2:24 AM

Would this now be considered the story of a dirty old man who grooms a poor unsophisticated girl?

by Anonymousreply 150September 9, 2025 2:56 AM

It would be thought of that way because—Rex Harrison, the definitive Henry Higgins for many, is too old for the part!! I don’t think that would occur to anyone watching the Hiller/Howard Pygmalion.

I don’t think that is the only problem with Harrison. He seems to be going through the motions of what worked for all those stage performances, efficiently but having lost what Higgins might call an inner spark—a problem the movie as a whole suffers from a lot of the time, careful, tasteful recreation. The teacup, for example. Where was Cukor to say, this looks silly?

To me, the movie’s fresh elements are the supporting cast (Wilfred Hyde-White, Gladys Cooper, Mona Washbourne) but mostly and above all—Hepburn. I still think the best 1964 options might have been her with Peter O’Toole.

by Anonymousreply 151September 9, 2025 3:36 AM

Peter O'Toole was second choice after Cary Grant. But astonishingly asked for too much money.

by Anonymousreply 152September 9, 2025 6:52 AM

He & Audrey did “How to Steal a Million” together two years later, but it wasn’t a hit.

by Anonymousreply 153September 9, 2025 7:43 AM

How to Steal a Million, even with Wyler directing, was hardly the opportunity for the two of them that My Fair Lady would have been.

It does have, if what I have read is true, one of the saddest scenes ever. Charles Boyer has a long scene which is mostly exposition to Hepburn (I think). While filming, in Paris, he was called away from the set and took a phone call to hear that his son and only child had committed suicide in California after a painful breakup with his girlfriend. Boyer came back and finished filming the scene while making arrangements to return to the States.

A dozen or so years later Boyer himself committed suicide two days after his wife of 44 years died of cancer.

by Anonymousreply 154September 9, 2025 9:00 AM

"How to Steal a Million" is not a great film, but actually works as a pleasant light comedy, which is an accomplishment when you consider how bad most light comedies could be).

by Anonymousreply 155September 9, 2025 1:06 PM

Million is considered one of the last films of the old Hollywood system. The following year was Bonnie and Clyde. Interestingly that film as well as Virginia Woolfe were produced by old Hollywood studio head Jack Warner after he had done My Fair Lady and Camelot(if only Burton or O'Toole had done it. Harris is so mediocre.) His last film was for Columbia 1776 to which I wish he had added some Hollywood star power instead of just using the entire Broadway cast. He could have added some aging Hollywood heavyweights of which there were many at that time and livened things up a bit. These actors look as if they had just come off a very lengthy national tour. As much as I like William Daniels he had done the role a couple of 100 times too many.

by Anonymousreply 156September 10, 2025 4:35 AM

[Quote] She has a Best Supporting Actress Oscar, so they must have thought more highly of her acting back then.

What they were probably most impressed by was her turn as a prostitute which is a marked departure from the roles that she had played in musicals, Other than that her performance is entirely unexceptional.

by Anonymousreply 157September 11, 2025 10:58 PM
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