Reservations at the Mona Lisa: more marvelous Midwestern moments

[quote]Do send along missives from Monticello, Oakdale, Springfield, Henderson, and all nearby towns. Aunt Liz will be waiting to spread the news!

Thanks for starting the new thread.

And thanks for saving me some work. I can't wait to start spreading the news!

Prior thread, btw:

YAY!

[quote]Nancy Hughes, wearing Eau de Vinegar

Eau de Vinaigre

I'm not sure that THE Donna Love would have worn a Simply Barbara; she would have stayed with the major houses.

Wow, Linda Purl looks AMAZING. Who’s her surgeon?

The Mona Lisa was so cheap looking, it looked like a bunch of Party City streamers thrown over the Memorial Hospital cafeteria set with the lights turned down.

Lisa McColl kept plugging up the terlets at the Mona Lisa.

I used to have a cassette tape of Eileen Fulton singing “Maybe This Time” live at a NYC nightclub and it was HILARIOUS. That cassette was apparently making the rounds via show queens, many of whom had no fucking clue who Eileen Fulton was but thought her rendition was campy as hell.

(whispers) Maybe this time…I’ll be LUCKY…maybe this time…he’’ll stay…Maybe this time…for the FIRST time…he won’t just…HURRY AWAY!”

Think the type of phrasing as displayed by The Sweeney Sisters on SNL. Only Fulton’s phrasing was unintentionally hilarious. And the final bars going from her chest to head voice was the ultimate kicker.

Why did they get rid of Diana’s? I started watching “As the World Turns” a year after the 30th anniversary which was celebrated at Diana’s but when I started watching, everything centered around the Mona Lisa.

Everybody knows that after 1988, it was all about Barbara Ryan Originals.

Poor Santa Barbara didn’t stand a chance against GH and a weakened GL. I heard it was good- it had two of GL’s best HWs.

SB was fun with a lot of good comedy. Justin Deas was a riot.

Did Deas’s Tom Hughes have a humorous streak or was it all serious?

He was the most humorless of all the Toms, along with Margaret Colin as the most humorous Margo. They went up against Mr Big - played by the dwarf who went on to play Wallingford on AW.

My Tom will forever be Gregg Marx's sexy ass.

The hottest Tom^

But even Dot Boy Walton was Tom for a time.

Pussycat!

Tom Pelphrey getting raves for his new show.

How hard would it have been for ATWT casting to find an actual Amerasian actress to play Tom’s daughter Lien? Was it intentional that both actresses who played her (Chinese-American Ming Na Wen and filipina Lea Salonga) had 100% Asian facial features? It totally diluted the issue of what Amerasian chikdren faced when coming to this country. Lisa’s initial discomfort with her made little sense because Wen looked Asian and nothing else. Set aside the fact that she looked Chinese and not even Vietnamese. I guess Lindsay Price would have been too young to have first played her but there must have been SOMEBODY. I guess Doug Marland didn’t care to wait to find the right one? Anyway, that always irritated me.

Are these the groups you hate most r19?

Fuck off, R20. I guess there had to be at least one of you out there who would respond like this.

Bye, Hortense.

I think the Lien story was one of Marland's rare missteps. I never cared much for the character or story - nothing to do with her Asian background, but that story came literally out of nowhere. And initially the character was just kind of a whiny simp. No chemistry with Paul or Andy.

While Marland did most youth stories well, he really struck out with Lien (and with that whole terribly stereotypical story with Lauryn Hill).

Certainly in 2025 casting someone who wasn't part Vietnamese in a role like Lien would cause controversy.

If Marland wanted to give Tom a child, Tom could have fathered a child when he was on drugs in the late 60s, or maybe in the early 80s, when the character was out of Oakdale for several months before Justin Deas took over.

Didn’t Hogan Sheffer want to give Bob a previously unknown child from his ex-wife Sandy? The story was going to be that Bob spent a night with Sandy after she left Oakdale in 1979 and before he married Kim.

I was lukewarm to Lien but loved seeing Ming Na Wen’s career do so well afterward.

The oriental girls on days of our lives are different kinds of Chinese.

I didn't like Lien at first, but I really started liking her a lot once they paired her with Duke. Michael Louden really seemed to loosen Ming-Ma up, and their chemistry was very good.

I LOVED Michael Louden and was sad to hear of his early death. He could have gone far.

I really liked duke. Like as much as I liked Holden.

Oriental? Okay. And r19 has an illness and should be pitied. I used to like the Hortense Troll and gave it so many WWs on other threads. Defended it. Now I feel dismayed and ashamed.

Can we call this a bit of a bender? I can forgive that.

This is giving me a headache. I'd rather play bridge with Cecile!

21 years and 2 days ago, Barbara said, "So Long, Suckers!" and shocked the courtroom with an impromptu defenestration.

Tom Pelphrey had something special when he debuted on GL. He was the son Reva always should have had.

Ellen Dolan sings!

The recent Locher Room with Texas actors Michael Woods, Harley Kozak, Terri Garber and Tina Johnson was fun. Woods said he got canned later on from ATWT because of some contract issue?

Stumbled upon a Law & Order episode on Hulu-“Snatched”/Season 4/Episode 13-and Special Guest Stars are Ellen Parker, Marie Masters and, in a surprisingly large role, Judson Mills.

Judson Mills was Michael Weatherly before Weatherly existed.

Not really, r35. Mills appeared on World Turns in 1993, a year after Weatherly debuted in Loving.

ok but I find they resemble each other. is that all right with you?

I thought Judson Mills was the Temu Jimmy Wlcek....?

....and they were all variations of the original Hot Stable Boy character, Holden.

Holden --> Linc --> Hutch --> Mike Kasnoff

A shout out to Search from the folks at Edge and Secret Storm end credits to brighten your Sunday.

Interesting to see Bethel Leslie's name as writer for Secret Storm. I know she was one of the Maggies on The Doctors.

She had a lot of writing and acting credits. I seem to remember her writing some episodes of Family.

r37 Michael Weatherly and Judson Mills look nothing alike to me. It never occurred to me that that's what you meant.

Those end credits would have been from September 1971 if it was mentioning Search's 20th anniversary.

Bethel Leslie was listed as a writer in the Secret Storm credits alongside her brother Warren Leslie.

I always get Zina Bethune and Bethel Leslie mixed up. They had stupid ass names back in the dark ages.

Bethel Leslie? I don't know her.

I grew up with Lydia Bruce, and she was "my Maggie," just like Jada Rowland was "my Carolee," but after Retro TV, I preferred Bethel Leslie and Carolee Campbell in those roles.

Bethel had a certain fabulousness. Lydia was fine but I really enjoyed Bethel's take on Maggie too.

[quote]This is giving me a headache. I'd rather play bridge with Cecile!—Ada

Keep [bold]my[/bold] Cecile’s name out of your pussy-eating mouth. She’s mine.

Bethel Leslie was a prolific character actress before moving behind the scenes on soaps. She was really good on the classic westerns like Gunsmoke and Wagon Train. Her characters always had an edge and she played them well.

“I don’t even know who these people are…”

R48 YOU get a kick in the cunt!

I wonder if Paul Rauch ever invited Irene, Connie and Geri Court over to his place to play poker, drink Schlitz, crush the cans on their head, and talk about broads, the NFL and cars.

Man, how I’d have LOVED to see a Connie/Geri/Irene threesome! Carpet’s a munchin’!!!

R52, I bet he’d also ask Susan Flannery over if she was in town. Rauch did prefer blondes.

Can we discuss The Secret Storm here? It's not a P&G soap. As a youngster I remember a young prominent couple dying in a plane crash and a prominent older woman dying of a beain tumor.

When I hit puberty I had raging crushes on David Ackroyd, Gary Sandy, Dan Hamilton and several others.

My father's family knew Madeleine Sherwood.

R55 That’s frowned upon.

As long as this doesn't become a Secret Storm thread, go ahead R55. We also talk about the Doctors here, those are both honorary P&G shows.

R55 Madeleine Sherwood. A bitch! I met her outside of the Guiding Light studio in 1985 while she was doing a role there. She couldn’t have been more nasty! Asked her for an autograph and she said no, I don’t do autographs. Just a nasty old bitch. Rest in hell!

Are you really coming for Sister Woman?

Our beloved Tommy Pelphrey on CBS Mornings this morn. He’s still hot! Oh my.

Sounds right r58. My family hated the old bag. I couldn't watch The Flying Nun without my grandfather grumbling about that nasty little witch. Then she turned up on The Secret Storm trying to be an Ada type. Imagine the uproar.

I was probably too young to ever see The Secret Storm.

I vaguely remember Love of Life. Mostly that the woman who was the lead eventually showed up on GL as Sarah Shayne.

I remember more about The Doctors. My mom watched that one.

Yes

The main character from LOVE OF LIFE became Reva's mother

Her nasty sister played by Tuddi Wiggins was younger, prettier, and a lot more fun

I think Love of Life and Secret Storm were produced by the same production company. Both shows were very PGesque, but were willing to push the envelope a little bit more than the conservative PG would allow on their shows.

Funny thing is, I saw Kim Zimmer's FB account the other day where she posted a photo of her own mom, and that woman and Audrey Peters looked like they could be twins, or at least sisters.

Kim was the weirdest looking leading lady of aĺl the soaps but ATWT was always known for UGLY leading ladies and beautiful men.

Kim Z kinda looked a lot like a few women I actually knew.

I knew two moms of friends of mine that looked and acted so much like Kathryn Hays (as Kim Hughes) that it was a little unsettling.

Kim was gorgeous in the early GL days. Stunning.

Kim Z always looked like someone’s Midwest mother to me, even in the 80s. She just exuded frau energy.

How is Kim’s battle with the titty cancer? I don’t follow her on social media.

Oh crap! Donna Bridges AW bench has been destroyed. Damn those vandals!

[quote]I knew two moms of friends of mine that looked and acted so much like Kathryn Hays (as Kim Hughes) that it was a little unsettling.

Did they also call others “toots”?

Kim was decidedly not frau looking until she had her 2nd baby. Then, yes, she looked like a Midwest ho wife.

Springfield was in the Midwest!

That slut of Springfield scene gets me every time.

It was really, truly a classic scene.

I don't think I ever realized before that Kim had been on GL for maybe 7 or 8 months at this point.

The truly ugly Kathryn Hays was once married to Glenn Ford. Making the truly ugly Kathryn Hays a major character helped kill ATWT.

I have little to no patience with ATWT fans.

I dislike ATWT fans.

I agree with Chris Goutman. They act as if they own these threads. I'm glad he fucked them over in the last episode.

Nothing makes me happier than knowing Scott Defrietas is seen as the ugly man he was. The 1980s opening theme was like the muppets PIGS IN SPACE and it only got worse. Blob Hughes. Most unattractive man on any soap.

However - Lisa should have had more at the end.

These threads have been rather cordial so I don’t understand the turn they suddenly took.

I think the Slut of Springfield scene should’ve ended a hair sooner with Reva just bawling into a heap of tears instead of taking off the rest of her dress. The scenes with them, and others, before this were equally intense and a bit uncomfortable. This, and MANY Roger, Holly, Rita scenes were some of the most intense scenes I’ve seen on soaps.

[quote] These threads have been rather cordial so I don’t understand the turn they suddenly took.

Some of us are tired of being given time-outs for not sucking ATWT ass

Nobody is getting time outs here for not discussing liking a particular show.

If you're a mentally ill person talking about clogged toilets, snatches being eaten or naming some random soap fans from other boards here like any of us give even the tiniest fucks about them, then sure, you might get a time out.

R83 smells like paresan cheese under her tits

I see “Guiding Light” discussed here much more than “As the World Turns”. I don’t get it.

Dumb Donna Shallotpeel’s bench was torn down. Linda Dano had her dog shit on it before the ax was taken to the bench. lol

Did someone say snatch??? Yum yum yum!

What is going on here?

Ignore these assholes and let’s get back to discussing our Marvelous Midwestern towns.

I stumbled on this clip the other day. It’s the 30th anniversary episode of ATWT, but the beginning of the clip includes a brief segment from CBS This Morning about the anniversary. Helen, Don and Doug Marland are interviewed together. You can see how much Helen and Don appreciated Doug.

What storyline would you have given these AW characters in the 90s, when they were either written out or saddled with terrible stories:

Iris Jamie Sharlene Rachel Dennis

For Iris:

This would involve some retconning, but after Iris left Texas, she got involved, again, with Robert Delaney and got pregnant and had a daughter who would come to town and be every bit Iris, Jr. Meanwhile, Iris is sleeping with a young Playboy type. I would basically tell GH's David Hamilton story with Iris and her daughter, and this playboy. He's sleeping with both of them, the daughter kills the guy, and Iris takes the fall to protect her daughter.

For Rachel:

Instead of Justine, what if Spencer's ex-wife, Carl's ex, and Ryan's Mother was Pamela Davis Harrison - Rachel's half sister? Instead of being crazy, give her an edge and make her Rachel's rival.

For Jamie/Dennis:

Have them fighting over the same woman.

I think Sharlene was pretty busy during the 90s, from Sharly to the crazy shrink, I think her name was Taylor.

I put Sharlene in there because I hated the crap they threw at her when Anna Holbrook returned to the show.

I would have had Dennis develop feelings for his close buddy Jamie.

It could almost be the Otalia story before that was a thing.

I would have Carl Hutchins get pushed out of the window at Tops, miraculously survive, undergo brain surgery and his entire memory is wiped a la Regarding Henry. Rachel finds herself falling for this new version of Carl much to Mac and Ada’s distress.

[quote]I would have Carl Hutchins get pushed out of the window at Tops, miraculously survive, undergo brain surgery and his entire memory is wiped a la Regarding Henry. Rachel finds herself falling for this new version of Carl much to Mac and Ada’s distress.

While Carl and Rachel certainly had chemistry, I never bought that she would fall for him, not after all the villainous things he did to the Cory family in the 80s.

So, a redemption story of some form was needed. Whether they discovered a brain tumor had caused all his criminal activities or his entire memory wiped out, whatever it took to redeem the Carl character before going on this romance with Rachel.

Don't think Mac or Ada would have much to say about this unless it was through a seance. Mac died in 1989 and Ada died in 1993. Neither were around when Rachel was falling for Carl.

They’d have recast Ada with Rebecca budig no doubt.

Otalia! GL was getting good IMO a year before and up to when it was canceled.

ATWT was solid, too.

I'm sure this has been covered already, but I was sad to learn today that Martha Byrne is MAGA

How are GH and BTG not canceled with ratings at or lower than GL, ATWT, AMC, OLTL had when they were canceled? All soap demos for 18-49 are below 0.3.

I started watching GH when Rory Gibson took over the role of Michael, and I am enjoying the show much more than I would have thought.

A “who killed?” story about started last night, and I have often been a sucker for those. The victim is one of those people who really needed to be killed.

I hope the show won’t be killed anytime soon.

[quote]How are GH and BTG not canceled with ratings at or lower than GL, ATWT, AMC, OLTL had when they were canceled? All soap demos for 18-49 are below 0.3.

Most of the viewership has moved to streaming, which barely existed 15 years ago. So, this is really comparing apples to oranges. Totally different situation now as compared to 2009-2011.

Days does very well on Peacock. GH does very well in Hulu. Both are frequently in the Top 5 Shows on those sites.

The Nielsen ratings you are seeing reflect primarily older viewers who likely don't even know how to stream a show.

I watch GH on Hulu every weeknight after 8:00. My computer 🖥️ screen is 24” so I really enjoy watching it. I’m also watching OG Law and Order. I’m at the beginning of season nine. I wish they hadn’t fired Claire or Logan. I can’t stand Rey.

GH is awful. Really all the soaps are terrible. Nothing like they used to be. I find them cringe now. It makes me sad.

No, none of the soaps is as good as they were in the 1980s. They've got less budget and less time to shoot them. Back in the day, Days was often shooting until midnight coaxing the performances out of young performers like Bo and Hope.

But of the five daytime shows currently on the air, I enjoy GH and Beyond the Gates the most.

[quote]How are GH and BTG not canceled with ratings at or lower than GL, ATWT, AMC, OLTL had when they were canceled? All soap demos for 18-49 are below 0.3.

A few reasons.

1) "Linear" Viewership is down across all network programming. The audience is divided between streaming, premium, and basic cable channels, as well as the internet and phones. The "Big 3" networks and basic cable are not the only game in town for original programming anymore. More people are watching YouTube videos than the top network primetime shows.

2) Soap budgets are a fraction of what they used to be. I read somewhere that Days is produced for $400,000 a week, with GH and YR produced for not much more than that. The big three soaps, YR, GH, and Days, used to have enormous (for soaps) 7-figure budgets per week. We've all heard the stories about primetime cuts. They're only experiencing, now, what daytime has been going through for years.

3) Days, GH, and now BTG are huge successes in streaming. Streaming also allows networks to target ads to specific audiences in ways they can't on network, which brings in more ad revenue.

4) Salaries are down in daytime. BTG is a new soap; those actors probably make slightly above scale. Clifton Davis is probably working for insurance. Over at GH, Frank Valentini is known for being a budget master. There are a few actors over there doing well, but most aren't making the kinds of salaries that soap stars used to make. Even the crew and writers have voluntarily taken cuts to keep these shows on the air.

5) Big Pharma keeps daytime and primetime afloat, especially in daytime, where the target demos are 25-54 and 50+. Those folks are prime Big Pharma age.

My guess is GenX is the last big soap generation. After we die out, these shows are gone. Some older millennials may have watched Passions when they were kids, but they didn't stick with soaps. Southern high school-educated white women and black viewers appear to be holding on, but even those numbers aren't what they used to be.

Soaps need to stop pretending their characters are uber rich. They don’t have the budget anymore to build sets like the Cory Mansion or the Springfield Country Club. It all looks very amateurish and cheap.

The Kiriakis and Dimera mansions on DAYS and the Quartermaine mansion on GH are embarrassing. These people are supposed to be uber rich, but their homes are decorated by Wayfair or Ashley Furniture.

I believed that Lucinda Walsh, Alan Spaulding and Iris Wheeler were rich. I don’t believe that Tracy Quartermaine or EJ DiMera are rich.

It’s a symptom of a bigger problem, they simply don’t have the budgets they used to have, but they’re trying to fill the same amount of time.

GH today could never do an episode like ATWT’s 30th anniversary episode-they don’t have enough money to have all those contract players and returning cast members in one place at one time.

[quote]I believed that Lucinda Walsh, Alan Spaulding and Iris Wheeler were rich.

Was it Iris' above-ground pool that convinced you?

Lol no, but her 80s penthouse did.

One of the reasons why I had so much difficulty with GL-The Peapack Years was that the Spaulding Mansion didn't look right. It was like they didn't even try.

Sept 3 marked the 74th anniversary of the debut of Search for Tomorrow.

[quote] Joanne Gardner Barron Tate Vincente Tourneur

Oh, THAT old cunt.

September 4, 1981: The interlocking rings opening of Another World, which debuted in 1966, aired for the final time.

Rachel versus Cecile. Two great scenes. The only bad thing is the hairstylist who gave Victoria Wyndham that hairdo, which aged her too much.

Rachel had a lot of bad hairdos over the years, that one being one of the worst. So unflattering.

Cecile should have slept with Mac or Steve Frame. Rachel would have lost it.

Has Victoria Wyndham released a statement yet about Shallotpeel’s Another World bench being destroyed by hoodlums? Such a tragedy! Tom Llamas covered it on NBC news last evening. A gofundme has been set up.

I don’t see any aggression from ATWT fans here. GL seems a slight favorite FWIW.

I think the reason many people discuss the same topics over and over is we have new posters and we get new insight into different stories. Sometimes it’s easy to forget some details and an experienced poster can add them.

We've had AW, Edge and Search threads cycled in here, but those shows have been off the air longer, so they don't get as many threads as GL or ATWT, for sure.

Connie Ford fans. Here is Connie being fabulous in the TV Show "Way Out"

Anf for fans of Rose Perrini... Kathleen Widdoes in "Way Out"

Connie Ford was a great snatch eater! She KNEW how to eat a great snatch.

I am a P&G fan down to my bones, but I also agree with R100 — GH has been a fun watch for me this past year or so.

One storyline I would have wanted to see is Lisa at The Willows Inn. Doug Marland created that story.

Oh, and Jingles the Clown on “Somerset”.

Jingles the Clown FOR SURE! I wish more soaps did that type of story. It wasn’t supernatural. It was interesting, well written, and scary. Brent/Marian on GL was similar.

Part of me wants GH canceled before it overtakes GL as the longest soap in history.

In the last thread there some mentions of Sofia/Sophia Landon Geier — her real life was so very soapy. As much as I loved to loathe Diane Ballard, my heart breaks for Sofia.

The Willows storyline is (was?) on You Tube.

Did Mike or Nancy Karr ever cheat on each other? What about Bill and Martha Marceau?

What do you think would have happened with ATWT if Doug Marland hadn’t passed away?

I think he would have left the show by 1995, when the budgets were really getting squeezed and the outside influence increased.

Where would he have gone next-GH? AW? Maybe Bill Bell would hire him for Y&R when he retired?

Doug at AW would have been interesting, though he would have needed the right EP there to support him.

I think by the time 1995 rolled around and MADD was in charge, he would have been disgusted with the interference from the network(s) and from P&G, and he probably would have retired.

I could see Doug going to GH after Claire Labine left, or maybe working on Y&R when Bill Bell stepped down. But I think he would have retired by 2001.

Doug wouldn’t have worked at AW. He hated women in charge so he would have never gotten along with Terri Guarnieri, JFP or Charlotte Savitz.

No to both couples R128

I can’t even recall the hint of infidelity involving any of them.

The soaps should have had more of that.

R132 That's why I said he'd need the right producer. Maybe after Laurie Caso was bumped from his role, he could have gone to AW with Doug.

If Ed Trach had still been in head of production at P&G, I have no doubt he would have moved Marland over to AW in 94 or 95.

Ed championed the soaps and kept P&G shows on track throughout the 1989s, taking over as head of production following Bob Short's retirement in 1982. .

However, Ed Trach retired in early 1993 and things quickly began to fall apart with the P&G shows. A worthy successor was not found for Trach. Kenneth Fitts had the job for a few years, then MADD became P&G's head of production in 1996. Neither could hold a candle to Trach.

MADD really did oversee the dissolution of all the shows. The 2 remaining shows died a slow death after she left.

The first rumors of cancellation for GL started in 1993. Not major rumors. And obviously nothing happened, but there was an awareness within the industry that without Ed Trach there, P&G shows were vulnerable.

Also, CBS first allowed its affiliates to air GL at 10 a.m. rather than 3 p.m. in 1993, a sign the network didn't have as much faith in the show as it had when Trach was in charge.

And when flagship station WCBS moved GL to 10 a.m. in 1995, that was a giant red flag trouble was ahead for GL.

R138 Yes, something happened between 1992 (when CBS made a big fuss over GL and even had a big special to mark its 40th anniversary on TV) and 1993 (when a few local affiliates dropped GL and a number of other ones moved it to 10 am).

Marlena de LaCroix has lost the plot. Her latest column, a review of BTG, contains numerous errors and the outdated term “transsexual.” She reuses that word on Facebook again (both times referring to Maya on B&B).

Maybe her dead beagle is typing up the damn “column” these days. Where’s an Editor (MIMI!!!) when she’s needed?

I loved Marlena's columns in the 1990s and 2000s. She was so thoughtful and insightful.

That said, these days, her column just comes across as sad. It seems completely out of touch. And it has been for almost a decade. It now reads like a relic of the past. Unfortunately, its also written like a relic of the past, which is part of the reason its seems so out of touch. It reads so 90s rather than 2020s.

Also lots of factual mistakes that are so easy to check. One should never underestimate the value of a good editor.

Isn’t Marlena de LaCroix begging for money on Gofundme? She’s a whacko. Has Mimi Torchin donated yet???

I thought the “soap press community” would’ve rallied around her.

Nope. She’s extremely disliked.

Maybe Alina can cover her rent next month.

How much had the GoFundMe raised?

What was the problem with many of ATWT’s legacy children?

Yes, we got Tom, Katie, Chris, Luke, Faith, Casey, Parker, Paul, Emily, Alison, and others until the end.

But we lost Frannie, Sabrina, Andy, Duke, Lien, MJ, Aaron, Abigail, Adam, Betsy, Dani, Lucy, Bianca, Teddy, Bonnie, et al.

And what was the point of giving Lisa long-lost son Scott, who was played by three sexy actors, if not to do much of anything with him? He’d been forgotten for a decade when the show ended.

$1030 of $3500 needed.

It’s sad. I hope I don’t fall for a beagle scam in my golden years.

[quote] Nope. She’s extremely disliked.

Sadly I think over the years she's alienated everyone around her.

Feels like that happens quite a bit in the soap world.

It was an issue with the writers, r145.

One thing Days of Our Lives does well, is keep the legacy offscreen characters alive. Characters will discuss these characters; they’ll talk about visiting them, the Hortons have their Christmas ornament tradition, etc.

ATWT should have done more of that. I was surprised when Nancy Hughes died and Chris Hughes told Katie about Bob’s long dead sister, Susan. But I can’t really recall the legacy characters discussing the characters from the past once Goutman showed up.

It's amazing how much goodwill the Hortons' Christmas ornaments has garned over 60 years. At some point, though, that tree's gonna topple over.

The issue with the Scott Eldridge character was that Joseph Breen's HIV status leaked to the tabloids, and ATWT fired him not long after. Which made what was a very promising story come to a grinding halt.

The tepid recasts that came after that just never did the role or its potential justice, and ATWT was a sloppy mess for most of the decade after Marland died, so unfortunately Scott was one of the casualties.

I liked the Scott recasts. Christopher Cass was hot, and Doug Wert schemed well with Carly.

Doug Wert - makes me EXTREMELY moist down there.

Anonymous? I know it’s you, Nancy! Your moistness smells vinegary. Bob thought you made fish’n’chips for Penny’s visit!

R149, that surprised me as well.

N Wasn’t Penny still dealing with fallout from that when the series opened? Something like she heard Nancy say,, “Why did it have to be Susan??”

Wow. So Nancy was the original Beth Jarrett.

Susan would have never fallen for a man who came back from the dead.

Nancy was a tough cookie. When she came back in 1985, it was implied in a few scenes that she was going to be the mother in law from hell to Kim, but that never materialized.

Helen was born to play a vinegary old bitch. It would have been fun to watch her cunt her way through Marland’s Oakdale, telling off hussies and tramps like Emily, Barbara and Susan, and giving unsolicited advice to people like Lucinda and John.

"Nancy was a tough cookie."

I just watched an episode from '85 where she went ballistic on Frannie for missing her fitting for a bridesmaid's dress for Kim and Bob's wedding. Barbara yelled at Frannie, too.

Susan would never have skipped her bridesmaid's dress fitting.

I was a lesbian who drowned myself because I knew you’d never accept me, Mom!

Website linked below indicates Susan was "killed in a freak accident while diving into a swimming pool during a violent thunderstorm."

Buck would never have dived into a swimming pool during a thunderstorm.

We'd love to see Nancy Hughes and Beth Jarrett in a Vinegar-Off.

Who can be more judgmental and withholding?

Who can lay guilt trips better?

Who is the bigger bitch?

I was pushed.

I smelled vinegar before I went under…

Nancy would win.

Beth was a quitter.

You guys make a fan of ole Nancy, but was she any worse than Mary Matthews or Bert Bauer? Mary was smothering, needy, and totally fake. Bert was a fishwife until her uterine cancer.

Out of all the classic PG matriarchs, Jo Tourneur, Nancy Karr, and Ada Hobson are the only ones who are reasonable.

At least Mary picked up some new summer clothes for twins on occasion, during which Jim stayed home alone and drank.

Nancy’s (daughter’s) BFF Ellen was grandmother to quads. Nancy sent ONE gift for all four of them. She then wrote daily anonymous poison-pen letters to Sandy, Mary, Joyce, Kim and Dead Jen. The stationary always smelled vinegary.

Ada and her dishrag RULED. **snap!!!**

Nancy and Geraldine were aces.

Jo sat around waiting to be held at gunpoint, kidnapped, or lose a family member.

Actually, Nancy could talk a gunman down just with her vinegary chiding.

Hey! I was the CLASSY one!

[quote]At least Mary picked up some new summer clothes for twins on occasion, during which Jim stayed home alone and drank.

I think Mary Matthews worked the twins into every conversation she had from 1970 forward, regardless of whether the twins were actually mentioned in the dialogue of that day's script.

Bert could be a real B. Seriously.

[quote]Jo sat around waiting to be held at gunpoint, kidnapped, or lose a family member.

That's why they called it Search for Tomorrow. Jo was searching for the next disaster.

Susan Hughes didn’t drown. She was struck by lightning while swimming.

Miss Locher has managed to track down Finn Cater for an interview. She seems nice, and sane too!

Didn’t Finn have drug and arrest problems? Did Miss Locher (that’s crazy) ask her about that?

[quote]Valerie Ames

That's Valerie Hill Ames. I didn't include her, but she was nothing but class, no matter how trashy her stepchildren got, especially that Amy.

Does Locher go to the same lip injector as Laura Ingraham? Both have the same frozen, half-grinning, always open perma-pout.

Finn Carter’s solo interview with Alan this past week was interesting. No surprise that Liz Hubbard was not happy with her being cast as Sierra. She didn’t think she was convincing as a half-latina who grew up in a Central American country. Locher, of course, didn’t follow that up by saying something like “Well, Mary Beth Evans didn’t exactly look like she was half-latina. She looked more like a Betsy.”

Finn seems to be a bit crazy (a touch of the Anne Heche twitches) but her emotion when she spoke about Scott Bryce was very real and moving.

Did Finn comment on her MAGA ex, Michael Swan?

Can we talk about character ages?

I was just watching a 1989 episode of AW where they were celebrating Felicia's 40th Birthday. Would you assume that Felicia, Donna, Rachel, and Iris are all the same age or within a couple of years of each other?

Rachel was still old enough to get pregnant in 1999. Let's assume she was 50, so it sort of lines up that she and Felicia are the same age. I'm confused about Donna. Wasn't it established that she was 16 when she had Marley and Victoria?

How does Cecile fit? I always assumed she was Jamie and Dennis' age, but they seemed to have played her older in her later appearances.

Donna was 16 when she had Vicky and Marley, which would have made her 35 or so when Vicky arrived in 1985.

Jamie and Dennis were 18 or so in 1978, when they were SORASed, so Rachel and Iris would have been in their mid 40s in 1985, or around 8-10 years older than Donna.

I think Felicia is older than Donna but younger than Rachel and Iris.

But….it was established later on that Rachel and Michael went to high school together, I believe, when they had a brief flirtation? So was Michael older than Donna?

I believe Cecile was a couple of years older than Jamie and Dennis, probably around 22 or so when she arrived in 1979. She came to Bay City because her offscreen relationship with Phillip ended.

That said, figuring out the ages on Another World is especially tricky, because they seem to have de-aged Dennis and Jamie later on to connect them to Vicky and Marley.

I've said it before, but (two networks be damned), a Mary Matthews-Nancy Hughes-Bert Bauer-Jo (insert last name here) bridge game would be interesting to watch.

Iris was about a decade older than Rachel when she first appeared on screen in December 1972,

When Carmen Duncan took over the role, Iris was deSORASed to about Rachel's age.

I can buy Michael being older than Donna, even if it's only a couple of years. That might have been part of stable boy's appeal.

In reality, Anna Stuart is about a year-and-a-half older than Kale Browne, and David Forsyth is more than a year older than Anna.

Alice Matthew was supposed to about 17 when AW debuted in 1964,

AW Home Page lists Alice's birth year as 1946,

AW Home Page lists Rachel's birth year as 1947. Rachel would have been about 20 when she debuted in March 1967.

Miss viki’s scripts make me read them.

When they recast Cecile with Nancy Frangione, they also SORASed the character.

Susan Keith was born in 1959, making her 20 when she started on AW in 1979 as Cecile.

Nancy Frangione was born in 1953, making her 28 when she started on AW in 1981 as Cecile.

"Did Finn comment on her MAGA ex, Michael Swan?"

Nope. I was hoping for some dirt.

I listened to Finn up to the point she talked about Peter Boynton and then lost interest.

I guess her TV sister Martha didn't pop up to say hi.

I think Alan and Martha are on a break. Notice that she didn’t use his forum to promote her MAGA book.

Lisa Brown posted anti-Trump messages on Facebook daily until she got sick. I wonder what she thought about her MAGA trash “daughter.”

R191 she probably made those posts with gingjvitis Byrne in mind.

I know a lot of soap people are MAGA, but I find the Martha Byrne thing curious because it seems like everything that happened to her husband happened during the first Trump administration.

I haven't really been following it lately, but I don't recall reading that Trump has pardoned the guy or anything.

R193 she’s a typical white woman who took on the politics of her husband. It’s a tale as old as time.

She's a loser

Anybody know what Liz Hubbard’s politics were?

I'd like to believe her age came with wisdom

Brown may have disagreed w/Byrne politically but they were still pretty close. Byrne was at Brown's funeral.

R193 Dump hasn't pardoned Byrne's husband. He's in federal prison in Michigan (FCI Milan) with a release date of 9-18-2026.

He has an appeal pending and has hired a different attorney who specializes in federal appeals. Meanwhile, his name is also on a list with the DOJ requesting Dump to commute his sentence, so it would appear he's asking for his sentence to be reduced rather than go for a pardon. One thing, however, is that according to DOJ procedure, commutation generally doesn't move forward until all court challenges have been been completed, so if this administration goes by that, then that would mean nothing would be done on that front until the current appeal has been heard and decided upon.

And to answer your other question. Yes. Byrne's husband was arrested and charged during Dump's first term by his team at the DOJ back in 2020.

Liz was on OUR side.

One of Martha’s closest ex-friends and co-stars told me that she waited until Liz passed to go full-on MAGA. Most of the cast and crew have had enough.

Goutman knew about Byrne’s priorities which is why he lowballed her and never let her come back at the end.

[quote]Dump hasn't pardoned Byrne's husband. He's in federal prison in Michigan (FCI Milan) with a release date of 9-18-2026.

As slow as the appeals process can be, it may be that his release date may arrive before the appeals court hears the case and makes a ruling.

I guess you guys are going to have to call me Rose, because I don't understand how being arrested by Trump's DOJ and not pardoned by Trump in his second term equates to full-on MAGA.

I get wives taking on the politics of their husbands, but this doesn't make any sense, and her husband seems shady as fuck.

They played around a lot with Tom Hughes’ age. David Colson was born in 1941; Tom Tammi, in 1945; Justin Deas, 1948; Gregg Marx, 1955; and Scott Holmes, 1952.

The Toms before Deas seemed like they could be Bob and Lisa’s brother, not their child.

She’s full-on MAGA. Please read her statements about Kirk, and how she supported his views on “indoctrination of kids in schools” and “traditional marriage.”

My friend from ATWT says former hair and makeup at ATWT are livid. She HAD lots of gay friends and coworkers.

Van Hansis follows Noelle Beck on socials, not Martha! LOL

Omg she posted a picture of herself with Charlie Kirk yesterday on X! What an asshole, she owes her career and notoriety to gay men like Doug Marland and Bob Calhoun, and she attaches herself to that. What a bitch.

[quote]My son Max heard you Charlie. My other children loved listening to you. You were the free speech hero they were longing for!! You changed the world for our youth.

Dear sweet baby Jesus. 😱

Okay, she's officially dead to me now. That bitch.

I’d pray for her kids to be gay or trans but why subject them to her hate?

Rose is turning over in her grave!

Finn Carter is a mess! The Locher Room has not gotten any better in 5 years! Oh please - Finn Carter was the FIRST person in soap history to be an extra and then get a contract??? False! Miss Locher needs to hang it up. Come back when you can state facts.

Heather Rattay wouldn't pull this shit.

You'll be happy to know that Noelle and her husband are blue.

R207 JHFC.

What is it about Charlie, Martha, that you admired? Him saying gays should be stoned to death, women belong only in the kitchen (get your fat ass there), Blacks should be slaves again? Huh, bitch?

R203 She and hubby also donated to Dump's 2024 election campaign and went to his inauguration. He was awaiting sentencing at the time and had to get special permission from the judge to travel to Washington, D.C. He also requested permission to travel to Florida to meet with the Pipe Hitter Foundation, which Martha has been involved with since his arrest and conviction.

So we all thought she was Lily, but MB was more like trashy, dumb Rose.

Politics aside (and Martha’s are gross) that shade of hair only R206’s post is frightening.

On the flip side, could Noelle Beck look any better than she does in R212’s post?

Damn — two sides of a coin.

I loved Noelle Beck on Loving, so I was glad when she became Lily on ATWT. I also liked Heather Rattray in the role.

I never really liked Lily #2 very much.

When I was watching ATWT, Julianne was my favorite younger actress on the show, but a close second was Melanie Smith as Emily. I thought she was fantastic-sexy and a lot of charisma. I know she did a few things after she left, but I really thought she’d be a big star.

I think that should be MB's new name. The Second Lily.

The fact that I can remember Lucy Deakins' name but not where I left my glasses should either delight or terrify me, and I'm not sure which.

Melanie Smith in "Step Counts":

R218, I thought she'd be big, too. Like, movie star big. Talk about having IT.

The Second Lily’s MAGA loving antics are making one of Chris Goutman’s controversial decisions, while leading a fading ATWT, seem sound in retrospect.

I couldn’t agree more — Melanie Smith sizzled and was THE Emily. (I also liked the woman she replaced.)

Happy Heavenly birthday to our resident toilet clogger - Ms. Eileen Fulton! Hope you’re clogging up the toilets in Heaven, darling.

Personally, I really liked Beck in the role, and thought it was really classy of her to offer to step aside after they knew ATWT was canceled in case they had a notion to play MAGA Martha to the end as a farewell to fans. .. Laughing now, because apparently, no one did. Good.

[quote]The Second Lily’s MAGA loving antics are making one of Chris Goutman’s controversial decisions, while leading a fading ATWT, seem sound in retrospect.

Had the Second Lily gone ultra conservative by the time Goutman let her go in 2008?

MAGA wasn't a thing at that point, but the conservative mentality was. Did she turn ultra conservative because of her cop husband? Cops tend to be very conservative. They had been married for 14 years by the time she last aired on ATWT.

R227 Possibly, but she came from blue collar NJ roots, so that may have already been part of who she was.

Sarah palin was tea party at that time.

I think referring to MB as Lily #2 is appropriate since she’s so..shitty.

Number Two and Dump. Not sure I could handle both at once.

Lily 2 had me deported when she heard Mother call me pussycat!

Lily always made sure her sisters stayed the hell outta the country so she could remain an only child!

And she framed Will for killing Rose. Just sayin.

I didn’t watch GL much during his run, but I watched enough to recognize Tom Pelphrey’s talent. I’m glad he’s getting good roles and recognition. He was excellent on OZARK and on the new show, TASK.

R234 He really was one of the last good new characters on GL.

The writing for him though...

I recognize that Tom Pelphrey is a talented actor, but I never especially liked the Jonathan character. Never did anything for me. Wasn't that attractive. Had a crass personality. I never sympathized with his background. Didn't like the fact they were doing a two first cousins in love story.

But Pelphrey did have good chemistry with La Zimmer. Their scenes were really the only thing I enjoyed about the Jonathan character.

The writing for Jonathan finding out about Reva and that whole thing playing out was amazing. Zimmer had to actually fucking ACT for the first time in years.

But the blond sap playing Tammy (Springfield's own Penny Pingleton) killed any interest I had in their pairing, and once Jonathan was involved with Tammy and Lizzie, that writing was really blah and dumb.

I give him credit for trying. I try to imagine his charisma in an era of better soap writing But I agree with r237 and r238. Obviously with r235 as well.

The writing throughout the David Kreizman HW tenure was lackluster.

Never understood why Ellen Wheeler kept him on for five years when his writing was mediocre at best. He must have come cheap.

[quote] He must have come cheap

How often was that the case?

I think that Tammy went to AMC after GL ended, like a few other actors did. She was a dud there, too.

Ellen Wheeler herself came cheap. Thus, the killing of GL.

Not a Wheeler fan but at least she did sorta kinda give a shit.

Goutman checked out long before the ax fell. To have ATWT go from where it was in 2003 to where it landed at the end was just sad.

but Jeffrey Meek Jeffrey Meek Jeffrey Meek...

This is going to sound like a defense, and maybe it is, but I don't think anything could have saved ATWT and GL. I think PG wanted out, and CBS wanted something cheaper and "in house." I think both Goutman and Wheeler did all they could do to keep the lights on for as long as they could have. Despite what some fans may think, none of these people set out to destroy a show; there are too many jobs at stake to just come in and say, "Let's dismantle this institution."

Were some bad choices made? Sure, but sometimes in soap opera writing and production, people take a shot, and sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.

True enough R246. Once MADD was gone I think that was a big signal P&G was done with it all.

I can't disagree r246. But at times it felt like self-sabotage. Maybe Wheeler deserves more credit than I give her. At least she tried for a decent finale, unlike Goutman.

GL may have looked like public access at the end but as I'm sure I've said here many times before, I could at least recognize the characters at the end.

Most of ATWT had been recast with ABC stars and only Bob/Kim, Lucinda, John and a few others gave me any emotional resonance at the end. So much time in that last year had been wasted on dumb nonsense.

I will never ever ever ever ever ever forgive Wheeler for Peapack. That was her idea. She owns it. Worst soap opera idea, ever. Wheeler was the worst EP in soap history, easily.

Looking back it was sad how many of us were grasping for any little crumb of hope, especially with ATWT and were dashed at every turn. I give Wheeler credit but it was a rough ride.

I remember when a soap insider scooped a new GL opening (after the grand theme with Joan Collins) and predicted the end was near.

The same was happening with ABC alternatives. There was no place to go.

It’s Winter 1993.All three P&G shows are in upheaval or about to enter upheaval.

AW lost its head writer of 4 years at the end of 1992, and has a big target on its back now that NBC’s other low rated soap (Santa Barbara) has been canceled, at the time the much cheaper to produce Today show is rebounding from a ratings slump.GL is reeling from the departure of three leading actresses and is about to controversially kill off the show’s matriarch. ATWT in short order is about to lose Doug Marland, Michael David Morrison and Joseph Breen in rapid succession, and has unsuccessfully recast the pivotal role of Margo.

If you were an executive at P&G or the networks, what would you do to get these shows on track?

AW -- Hire back Harding Lemay as HW. Or at least hire Harding Lemay to write a long term story Bible for the subsequent HW to follow closely.

GL -- Hire back Kimberly Simms. All she wanted was a raise or a shorter contract. JFP offered neither. Bring Maureen Bauer back from the dead by revealing Roger had whisked her away right after the car accident. Agreei to whatever terms Beverlee McKinsey demanded in order to come back

ATWT -- Prepare to be super-fucked with Marland's death. Maybe approach the Dobsons about returning now that Santa Barbara has been cancelled. Maybe approach Pam Long about taking over as HW. Maybe approach Harding Lemay about taking over as HW since his style was close to Marland's style.

Tom Pelphrey was electric with Zimmer. True, she had to step up her game after phoning it in for awhile.. He it a fire under her. I like him and Tammy. It reminded me of Lujack/Beth BUT she was NO Beth, though with him, she worked.

I think the last year of GL looked amazing at times. The directing was steady so the outside shots actually looked good. There were so AMAZINGLY cinematic scenes like Olivia professing her love to Natalia in a gazebo in the middle of an actual blizzard. It was STUNNING. Beautifully shot.

What could have saved GL? I agree with r253, Hire back KS at ANY cost. That would’ve been #1. I don’t think Bev could be gotten but I would have thrown the moon at her. Maureen back from the dead, too. That one would’ve been EASY!!!!!! Yet, they didn’t. Beg Pam Long to come back. Bring back Lujack and Beth. I think VI and BC would’ve had HOT chemistry.

This is more controversial:

Recast Blake.

I was one of those who wanted Maureen Bauer dead. Dead dead. She was so boring! Jesus Christ. If killing Boreen Bauer killed GL, the show deserved to die. Boreen’s death opened up so many great storylines and performances.

R255 Did it, though? Buzz took over after that. I, too, thought Maureen was boring until her friendship with Roger. Then after they killed her, I finally realized how important she was. Or maybe it was Ellen Parker’s scorching performance that made me take notice. They really underused her severely with that acting talent.

[quote] Boreen’s death opened up so many great storylines and performances.

Briefly yes. I didn't love her but she served a purpose that was lost, forever, when she was gone. I missed old turtle-face.

[quote]I don’t think Bev could be gotten but I would have thrown the moon at her.

Did they offer her helicopter rides to work?

[quote]Buzz took over after that.

Buzz added absolutely nothing to the show in my opinion. I never cared for the character. Never cared for Justin Deas' hammy acting style, even if it did win him Emmys which he subsequently trashed during his most recent move.

I liked Justin on ATWT. Was luckwarm to him on Santa Barbara (but so many former actors where miscast/misued on that show). Actively disliked him on GL.

I only liked him as Keith on SB.

I liked him as Keith, and as Bucky when I started watching old Ryan's Hope. He didn't really feel like Tom Hughes, and Buzz...meh.

If I recall correctly, Justin Deas got in trouble with the IRS over not reporting some income on his tax returns.

He had to pay a huge penalty/fine to the IRS as well as the back taxes.

He only took the job at GL in 1993 to pay off the IRS.

Maureen’s storylines were mostly about Ed being unfaithful to her, and her reaction to it. Otherwise her role evolved into the town matriarch, and eventually Roger’s only friend. There were other stories they could have done with Maureen-for example, when she came to Springfield she had gone through a bad divorce, and she bonded with Ed over that.

I think Ellen Parker blew everyone away with her performance in her last days on she show. Finally, she had material worthy of her talent. But the show wanted (needed?) her gone, so they axed the character.

To add insult to injury, they gave Maureen a lame funeral (we didn’t see any of the Reardons or Bauers besides Ed, Michelle and Bridget-couldn’t they have asked Lisa Brown to appear for a day?). Then the story went around that Maureen was killed off to free up the budget for Justin Deas. It just made fans angry all around.

JFP said on the Locher room GL needed "A" talent. I guess she might have meant A Martinez, who I would have welcomed with open arms, but I guess that was her rationale for bringing over all the SB talent.

Already on the show were: McKinsey, Zaslow, Garrett, Peter Simon, Maeve, Jerry verDorn....and she needs "A" talent.

Dear Irna in heaven.

There were much better Toms. one in particular who needs no introduction on this thread. From an old entertainment family.

[quote]I guess she might have meant A Martinez, who I would have welcomed with open arms, but I guess that was her rationale for bringing over all the SB talent.

At that point, A Martinez was on LA Law.

GH finally lured him back to daytime in 1999, casting him as a back from the dead Roy DeLuca. I thought A was fantastic on GH, had nice chemistry with Jackie Zeman. But then somehow JFP misused his character, tried to pair him with Jensen Buchanan.

The Santa Barbara actors were talented. The problem is the characters were ill -defined (Marcy Walker’s Tangie), devoured the show (Buzz), or were a recast for a actor that had better material (Marj Dusay).

Judith McConnell would have been a much better Alex than Marj in my opinion.

A was so hot in She Devil, prancing around almost naked. He was still quite attractive on OLTL. He could have been great with Dorian.

[quote]Judith McConnell would have been a much better Alex than Marj in my opinion.

The irony of that statement is that Judith McConnell was brought onto AW in 1980 to essentially be the new Iris, when Beverlee McKinsey was spun off to Texas.

They even had her Miranda Bishop living in Iris' old house.

And Judith was one of many actresses on a list of candidates to replace Beverlee. I think unfortunately the timing was off....she wasn't free from SB until after GL had already moved forward with a recast.

Supposedly Robin Strasser was about to have talks w/GL about Alexandra and when she gave ABC a courtesy call to let them know, they decided they wanted her back as Dorian on OLTL.

Keeping Maureen on, especially after seeing Ellen Parker‘s acting talent would have been riveting television. She could’ve gone scorched earth on Ed. Imagine with Roger’s help.

[quote]And Judith was one of many actresses on a list of candidates to replace Beverlee. I think unfortunately the timing was off....she wasn't free from SB until after GL had already moved forward with a recast.

Beverlee McKinsey's last show aired in August 1992.

Santa Barbara's las episode aired in January 1993.

Marj Dusay debuted as Alex in September 1993.

I stand corrected, as Miss R272 has indicated.

GL’s trouble was having JFF as EP. I believe this caused a cascade of bad things:

Bev leaving

Kimberley leaving

Pam Long or Dobsons not coming back

Maureen killing

Buzz and Tangie

Possibly not having Vincent play Lujack and bringing Beth back because Beth C wasn’t A list.

Not recasting Blake after seeing Liz didn’t have IT.

Is there a definitive list of the ladies who were considered or auditioned for the Alex recast? Over the years, I've heard that besides Marj Dusay, the casting pool included Robin Strasser, Judith McConnell, Susan Seaforth-Hayes, and Lara Parker. I feel like I'm missing some names.

JFP never would have allowed Bridget Dobson to step foot in the GL studio.

R276 That’s the point. She caused so much bad shit for GL.

Robin Strasser would’ve be fire as Alex. Too bad they did a courtesy call! I always heard Robin was a GL fan and wanted to work on the show.

Strasser had issues at every single job.

JFP tried to get Barbara Rush to fill in as Alex while they found a permanent recast.

She opted to go to AMC to play Nola Orsini instead. Nola was the mother of Tad Martin lookalike vintner Ted Orsini.

Not FIRED at Alex. FIRE as in great!

Sorry that was poorly worded.

I was one of the people rooting for Marj to be cast as Alex.

I thought she was fantastic as Myrna Clegg on Capital. Loved her too brief stint on Santa Barbara.

And Marj was great in the role for the first few years, especially when she had Vince Iriizarry to ground her. By the time Paul Rauch was there as EP, Marj starting to go a bit over the top. I was really amazed the directors didn't rein her in .

Then when she came back from playing super over the top Vanessa Bennett on AMC, she just continued playing it over the top and nobody ever stopped her. She wasn't just going over the top, she was playing it about 10 feet off the ground.

R275 There was a list published in Soap Opera Weekly around the time that the shocker news of Beverlee's departure hit the magazines.

I remember there were 10 names on it.....I think because Bev told Michael Logan "I can think of 10 actresses who could play her."

Marj, Judith and Robin were all on that list, I think....I can't remember who else.

I liked Marj and Liz Keifer initially.

But I think the writing after the first year or so sucked for both of them, and especially after McTavish and then Brown and Esensten came along.

Marj Dusay was the recast queen.

Hell, Marj Dusay wasn’t even the first one to play Blair’s mom.

Jane Elliot was in the conversation to play Alex.

I just think neither were right for the roles with Liz being the worst. Blake needed to be played by someone heft. I guess Sherry was too good and versatile. Liz also wasn’t anywhere near the actress Sherry was. Liz seemed out of breath a lot of times and come to think about it so was Marj.

Can't imagine Jane E as Alex but that might be my limited imagination.

While I didn’t regularly watch GL, if I caught Sherry Stringfield, Mary Kay Adams, or Kristi Ferrell, I’d keep watching. I started following ATWT again when MKA joined there.

R288 Sherry was something to behold. No one has the line delivery that Sherry does. Her way with dialogue was art. MARY! She was dynamic as hell. Since she torpedoed her huge career it is a shame she didn’t just come back to GL. To me, her loss was bigger than Bev’s.

R289 is right except for the Bev comment.

But I also loved Mary Kay Adams as India. Loved when she SCREAMED after getting fucked by Phileep. So voluptuous.

One of my favorite India scenes is when Warren Andrews tied her up with xmas lights and then pluggged them in.

Sherry was gone from ER for less than 5 years before she returned, yet it seemed like an eternity. She was completely wasted upon her return and she lost a lot of spark.

It was a true disappointment to see India go all fat and domestic with Dory.

Melanie Smith was only a year younger than Liz Keifer. She would have been fun as Blake.

I wanted to say one more thing about Sherry’s acting (she should have gotten a Daytime Emmy). She would always switch up the way she spoke depending on who she was speaking to. It was subtle, but noticeable. She’d switch it up dozens of times in one scene. Liz Keifer is a fine actress. She was not right to follow Sherry.

India was best when she was up against women. Her and Reva’s scenes are sometimes hard to watch they were so cutting. Sadly, Beth largely ignored her put downs. I wonder why Pam wrote it that way? There are a lot of very cutting things Beth could’ve said to her. She could have destroyed India with pointing out how much Phillip loved her and not India. But she didn’t.

India was obviously a good fuck.

Jane may have also been on the consideration list for Alex but in late 1992-early 1993 she was in talks to go to ATWT. This was the story Doug wrote where I believe Jeanne Cooper was to have played Jane's mother.

That story, sadly, died with Marland and never played out.

Wow! 50 new comments today! Must have been an eventful day on these shows. I’ll have to check my vcr.

[quote]I’ll have to check my vcr.

Hope they didn't have any news pre-emptions in your area. Otherwise you're fuck out of luck. Unless one of your friends also recorded the episodes and is willing to lend you his/her tape.

Damn that Watergate!

R293 YES!

Does anyone think one of the reasons Beth was not brought back to get with Nick or Lujack is because JFP felt Beth Chamberlin wasn’t A list? Why would they not bring her back for Lillian’s cancer story? I realize they wanted Phillip/Beth to be living happily ever after BUT they knew Phillip was never staying away since he was a Spaulding so that meant the popular Beth was also not staying away. It’s a soap. Tearing a part a popular couple is their bread and butter. Aunt Liz, care to weigh in?

You can't just bring characters back that easily. There's money, scheduling, how they'll fit into the overall current canvas, and the biggest reason, network approval. Getting the network to sign off on character returns, especially if the return will pull focus from other actors who are valued by the network or were part of a story they don't want to revisit, is hard.

I think in the early part of the 90s, there was probably no interest in bringing Beth or Phillip back because their characters had been featured so heavily in the years prior, and when Nancy Curlee was writing GL she was trying to pull in the ensemble of characters that maybe hadn't had as big of a story as Reva/Josh, Phillip/Beth, etc.

However, I will always think it was such a missed opportunity to not have Phillip and/or Beth see Nick and see his resemblance to Lujack before Nick left the canvas in 1996.

If you're trying to make Alan-Michael the focus, bringing back Phillip changes that dynamic. If Harley is the new lead heroine, you don't bring back another classic lead heroine, unless her last name is Zimmer, which may bring back lapsed viewers.

JFP was had been ousted from Santa Barbara in 1990 after the Dobsons won their legal battle allowing them back into the studio.

In the year prior to JFP's arrival, GL lost five of its major actors -- Kim Zimmer, Robert Newman, Grant Aleksander, Beth Chamberlain and Michael O'Leary

So, when JFP arrived as EP at GL in spring 1991, she really had a lot to prove about her talent and her abilities as an EP. And rebuilding a show that had just lost five of its main characters was no small task. But she set about to do this by focusing primarily on the existing characters on the canvas, doing things like moving Ross Marler from supporting character to a lead character. She also brought in a few new characters like Eleni to really stir things up with the existing ones.

As we all know, she did a fantastic job with that rebuilding and refocusing. Got great acclaim. Marlena de la Croix did a hugely complimentary column which JFP framed and put on her wall.

JFP was very resistant to letting any of those five actors return since she had so successfully rebuild the show without them. But with Luke and Laura set to return on GH in October 1993 and the network demand she somehow counterprogram that return, JFP decided bring back Robert Newman. JFP knew him from his short stint on Santa Barbara in 1995. And of course, she also got Marcy Walker to join the show as Tangi Hill at the same time. Josh and Tangi were her answer to Luke and Laura.

Next one back was Michael O'Leary in spring 1994.

Grant Aleksander left in 1991 because he needed time away to grieve his parents deaths. But when he was ready to return to acting in 1993, he went to AMC instead, playing Alec MacIntyre, who bedded Haley Vaughn and her mother at the same time. No idea if Grant approached GL when he was ready to return to acting before going to AMC, but I suspect JFP would have been resistant to letting him return

Kim Zimmer made it clear she wanted back in, -- even was on some talk show dropping not so veiled hints she wanted back -- but JFP absolutely refused. Ultimately, she agreed to let Reva come back as a ghost for a short arc in May-June 1995. I suspect that refusal to let Zimmer come back may have been a main reason JFP was fired around the time. The first thing the next EP did was sign Zimmer to a long term contract.

As for Vincent Irizarry's return in July 1991, that was already in the works when JFP arrived. According to Vince's Locher Room interviews, that return was almost a year in the making. I suspect it was P&G and the network that ultimately decided Vince should play a new character rather than a back from the dead Lujack. JFP may have weighed in on it when she got there, but the decision was made above her.

[quote]JFP knew him from his short stint on Santa Barbara in 1995.

That should be 1986. Sorry for the typo.

I wasn’t watching GL during the Reva clone story as it sounded ridiculous but it seemed like many said the ending of the story wasn’t all that bad.

[quote] And rebuilding a show that had just lost five of its main characters was no small task. But she set about to do this by focusing primarily on the existing characters on the canvas, doing things like moving Ross Marler from supporting character to a lead character. She also brought in a few new characters like Eleni to really stir things up with the existing ones.

Sorry to disagree but a lot of what you're talking about in that particular paragrah was the work of the writers - Nancy Curlee and Stephen Demorest. It was starting to be implemented even before JFP arrived.

She certainly had a stronger hand in the show once she arrived, but a lot of the ways the chess pieces were moved around - getting Mindy away from Roger, developing and introducing Hart, Julie, Bridget, and Eleni - was the work of the writers, to better utilize the people already on the canvas.

I don't know if Vincent I's return was in the works already before JFP arrived or not. I think talks were happening at the network level early that year, but JFP was probably there at the time the contracts were signed. Was she at SB when he was a few years earlier?

JFP was at Santa Barbara when Vincent was there. He was hired around the time the Dobsons were locked out and she took over.

[quote]Sorry to disagree but a lot of what you're talking about in that particular paragrah was the work of the writers - Nancy Curlee and Stephen Demorest. It was starting to be implemented even before JFP arrived.

That's a good point that was more the writers than JFP who were refocusing the show other characters. Thanks for pointing that out. Although we know from subsequent shows that JFP has a strong hand in the direction and focus of the writing.

Now that you've pointed that out, I recall there was an interview where JFP claimed credit for that refocusing. Or maybe it was in the Marlena de la Croix column where Marlena gave credit to JFP for the refocusing on supporting characters. Wherever it was published, that's likely where the idea first entered my head.

Grant was great as Alec on AMC. He had great chemistry with Olivia Birkelund (Arlene) and their sex scenes were hot. I always hoped AMC would bring his character back, especially when they brought back his son, Jamal.

Thanks, Aunt Liz. When Kimberley left as Mindy, and they fucked up the recast, plus with the show in turmoil in 1993, that really would have been a great time to bring back Phillip and Beth. It would not surprise me if JFP personally nixed that idea. It would’ve been blockbuster. On another board a long time ago there was an insider who said Judi Evans was approached to come back as Beth in 1990 and was going to first appear AT THE WEDDING of Phillip and Beth as a ratings surprise. Beth would STAY while Phillip went to prison. In comes Nick and fireworks. He’s first with Mindy, but he and Beth grow closer and this brings up all the past with Beth “taking” Phillip from her.

Vince said in a Locher Room interview that he accompanied Harley Kozak to the Santa Barbara cast Christmas party.

Vince and Harley were friends from their time on GL. Harley went directly from GL to Santa Barbara, where she played Mary Duval, paired with Lane Davies' Mason Capwell.

Vince said at the party, some of the SB executives said they would be happy to have him join the show at any time. The exec could have been the Dobsons, Could have been JFP. Or someone else.

Not sure if this was the Christmas 1985 party or the Christmas 1986 party.

The Dobsons were locked out in October 1987.

Vince debuted as Scott Clark in November 1987, so yes, the Dobsons were most likely involved with the casting. The role seemed to be created specifically for Vince. He played the part until October 1989.

It was on Santa Barbara that he met Signy Coleman who he would marry in 1989 and have a daughter.

Is there a female co-star Vince didn’t hook up with. Oh yeah, dykey Mary Kay Adams.

They first put his character on Santa Barbara with Robin Mattson, which was odd.

R312 Marland would’ve wrote the crap out of that story!

Why do you all hate me so much? I stayed until THE END. I let them pair me with bad hair-dye Frank. I managed COMPANY! I had three children I never saw!

[quote]I had three children I never saw!

And you didn't even know who fathered two of them.

Beth and Lujack were extremely popular so bringing them back, or Nick and Beth(and eventually Lujack), would’ve been a very smart move so of course Jill said nah. Stubborn bitch.

I don't like to bash actors but Liz Keifer brought nothing. She was average/ blah which is something you don't want in soap actors.

Liz was nothing special. Very blah.

What about Cali Timmons as Blake?

Liz was cast because she had a similar look to Sherry.

I remember when Liz first appeared she was acting a LOT like Sherry. She'd kind of copied her mannerisms, etc.

Her casting was also announced a really long time before Sherry's last scene, I think....at least 4 months or so, if not more.

Liz first episode

R325 Immediately. No. Just no.

Cali Timmons got screwed on Another World. She was a much better Paulina than Evan’s and had much better chemistry with Tom Eplin.

Eplin and Timmons should have been a super couple.

For a while there, it looked like they were going to pair Cali's Pauline with Russell Todd's Jamie. But then they put Jamie in the orbit of Anne Heche's Marley, which was a pairing I loved.

R323 Which was a mistake. Sherry looked nothing like Elizabeth Dennehy. GL really fucked up the recasting of Blake, Alex, and Mindy pretty epically. What was Betty Rea smoking? Was she giving all the good ones to ATWT?

[quote]GL really fucked up the recasting of Blake, Alex, and Mindy pretty epically. What was Betty Rea smoking? Was she giving all the good ones to ATWT?

And the person who ultimately decided on each of those recasts was none other than JFP. No telling who Betty may have recommended. JFP may have had her own ideas.

I don't think they went through Betty Rae for the Alex recast. I think that was all JFP.

R331 Don’t make me hate her anymore than I do. I’m well past a thousand suns.

I am surprised JFP didn’t hire Carrington Garland as the new Mindy. She hired her at Santa Barbara as Kelly, and she was quite good, holding her own against Roscoe Born and Marcy Walker. She would have been an improvement over Barbara Crampton or the other Mindy recast.

Crampton looked like an old bag.

What outstanding new talent did JFP actually bring onto GL? She brought in lots of people who had already made a name for themselves on other soaps. But who did she bring onto GL who was truly talented and new to soaps?

Only two people I can think of were Cynthia Watros and Frank Beaty. They were hugely talented.

Superficial post but JFP gave me Wanda Holloway vibes.

She didn’t really bring any new talent to GL, come to think of it, r335. Melina Kanakaredes was a Calhoun hire. Most of the actors who came on GL at this time had appeared on other soaps-Mark Derwin, Melissa Hayden, Rick Hearst, Liz Keifer….

JFP reminds me of Joyce DeWitt, r336, especially in the clip above of Bridget Dobson at the Emmys shoving past JFP to give her speech. JFP has steam coming out of her ears, like Joyce when Suzanne Somers or Three’s A Crowd is brought up.

Better comparison than mine r337

R335 Huh. You’re correct. As soon as she left GL started having a shit ton of future stars hitting almost all at once-Hayden, Taye, Tammy Blanchard, Brittany Snow, Jesse Soffer, Bethany, Laura Bell Bundy, Lindsay McKeon, Matt Bomer to name a few.

[quote]Most of the actors who came on GL at this time had appeared on other soaps-Mark Derwin, Melissa Hayden, Rick Hearst, Liz Keifer….

None of those were JFP hires except Liz Keifer.

All the rest were there before JFP got there.

JFP also gave us Sonia Satra as Lucy Cooper.

I wouldn't classify Sonia is super talented, but she was adequate in the role.

Perhaps I didn’t phrase my sentence correctly. When I wrote “at that time” I was referencing the period between the summer of 1990, when Zimmer left, to 1993, when Maureen died. The only newcomer from that period that seemed to make an impact was Melina, in my opinion.

Melina was an exceptional find.

I understood what you meant r337, r342. I agree Melina was the only complete newcomer to soaps who was on GL during that time who had any major impact on the show.

Melina was hugely talented and went on to do great things.

And she was there before JFP. Robert Calhoun is the one who hired her.

[quote]I am surprised JFP didn’t hire Carrington Garland as the new Mindy. She hired her at Santa Barbara as Kelly, and she was quite good, holding her own against Roscoe Born and Marcy Walker. She would have been an improvement over Barbara Crampton or the other Mindy recast.

As much as I liked Barbara Crampton as Trista Evans on Days and Leanna Love on Y&R, she was horrendously WRONG as Mindy. She didn't audition for the part. JFP called her up begging her to take the part. At least that's what Crampton said in the Locher Room.

Carrington Garland would have been far better as Minday than Crampton. Of all the Kelly Capwell recasts, I liked Carrington the best.

But why didn't she show go after Krista Tesreau to come back as Mindy?

In 1993, Krista had just completed a role on Santa Barbara and would ultimately be (mis)cast as Tina on OLTL. in July 1994. Why didn't GL come knocking?

I don’t think I would’ve predicted that Frank Grillo would be one of the GL alums with a successful career after soaps.

Melina was exceptional.

R341 Were you being facetious? Sonia might as well have been another dud Mindy. Imagine a truly dynamic actress in that role during Brent/Marian!

R346 Frank Grillo and Wendy Moniz go in R339 post. There were so many hot actors who came to GL AFTER JFP. She is a demon.

R345 Mindy had evolved beyond what Krista could do. She was never a great actress. I can actually see why going back to the original was not the right move. Bringing Krista back as an older Mindy worked, though.

I’ll add, I think Beth evolved past Judi. Not her capabilities just..it’s hard to explain.

[quote]Cali Timmons got screwed on Another World. She was a much better Paulina than Evan’s and had much better chemistry with Tom Eplin.

Chacun à son goût. I thought Timmons was a snooze and Evans and Eplin were spectacular together. They should have been endgame.

[quote] Evan’s

Evans.

No, r347, I truly meant it and always felt she wouldn't last long in daytime . She starred in primetime, kind of a dud show though. I think it still airs on one of those Mesothelioma channels.

Sonia Satra was the weak link in that storyline but I never disliked her or her character. To me it felt like she wasn't ready, she hadn't figured out how to connect with the audience.

Many uncharismatic actors have been surprisingly good after a few years as supporting players.

R353 I’ll just say it was unfortunate she was one of the main stars in that blockbuster story. Her acting next to Rick and Frank’s was amateur hour. I’d love to get bitchy Megan McT’s take on her acting. Now, if MELINA was in that story instead????????!!!!!!!!! Can you IMAGINE?

Can't agree more r354. Melina projected every emotion on her face before she even opened her big mouth. I say that with admiration.

I've been watching General Hospital for a couple of months. Yesterday, Monica died. She's the Port Charles equivalent of whom, Rachel Cory? Kim Hughes?

Beloved but not really the center of the show. Formerly somewhat acerbic and a grey character.

Maybe Donna love? Vanessa chamberlain?

How about Holly? Monica and Holly were both introduced in their shows in the '70s, weren't pure as snow in the early days, and had a complicated history (including a legacy child and perpetual chemistry) with a man who raped* and later tried to kill her.

*GH downplayed this (to the point where Monica later told Alan he "practically" had to rape her when describing their sex life circa 1979-80), but since Alan & Monica were my favorite characters in the '90s, I'm glad things happened the way they did.

Monica was an acerbic, comedic sort of villainess during her first decade on the show. She mellowed in the early 90s, when she remarried Alan and her sons were SORASed, but there was still a hit of an edge there.

Vanessa Chamberlain seems like an appropriate comparison, or maybe even Lisa from ATWT.

I kicked Monica Quartermaine!

Viki Sleestak is available to play both of Bert’s legs in the GL reboot!

Monica and I could be.....friends.

Ladies!

Hillary Bauer here. HELLO!

I would love to see footage of Marsha Clark playing Tina Lord. I can’t imagine her playing a character like Tina.

I wasn’t even a big watcher of GL or OLTL, but I did catch a couple of episodes with Marsha Clark as Tina and OH MY it did not work.

I saw one or two episodes on OLTL. Were there more? Loved Krista Tesreau as Mindy but she was badly miscast as Tina. Clark made her look good.

Am I the only one who liked the character of Hillary Bauer as played by Clark on GL?

Hillary was alright - they just should have made her a lesbian. She had no chemistry with men.

I don't remember much about Hillary.

Did Bert kick her with her good leg, too?

Hillary (when I started watching) was hopelessly in love with best friend Kelly Nelson (the best friend trope was well-done under Marland), while dating sexy lawyer Derek Colby. Derek really cared for Hillary.

Hillary was also comedic in her misadventures with co-worker/roommate Katie Parker.

Later Hillary had flirtations/romances with Jim and Fletcher (and maybe Tony?).

I had a boy crush on Derek!

Amanda (Amanda Bearse) on AMC was the ABC Daytime version of Hillary. She, too, was hopelessly in love with a boy who would never be interested in her so perhaps she should…uhh…explore other options.

Were any Bauers left by the time GL ended?

R373 Of course!

MARSHA wasn't that bad. Many viewers were quite upset at her demise of Dreaming Death. Monkey -Ann too. Then they turned poor Floyd into a nutcake killer.

Hillary made it through Dreaming Death — it was an explosive music box that took her out.

At the end, Rick and Ed were still on the canvas, and Michelle returned for the last several weeks.

R274, you're spot on.

Jill can't work with someone unless she's already worked with them.

GL managed to thrive after Pam left in late 1990 or early 1991.

But by 1993, the show was a mess. Zimmer was ready to come back. Luke and Laura were on their way home to GH; GL could have had Zimmer for the asking. But noooooooooooo GL had to have Tangie.

Pinch-nose from AMC was the worst Ed Bauer. I think Margo from ATWT was still playing Maureen then.

And what was up with that? She leaves one P&G soap to go to its closest sister soap?

Not that I am complaining. I preferred turtle-faced Maureen and kinda left when she died.

There was 3 years between Maureen and Margo for Ellen Dolan.

Richard van Fleet's Ed and Dolan's Margo had a showdown in the cabin over Ed sleeping with Claire when they thought Moe and Flether were dead.

It was standard soap opera yelling and screaming and screaming and yelling.

Such a contrast to the understated Emmy-winning Parker, whose Maureen was just GUTTED by Ed's romp with Lillian.

There no Reardons brought back for Maureen's funeral; not even Beah. CRIMINAL. No Mike or Hope or Rick. Hope should have come on and remained in the house to help raise Michelle and emerged as the new Bert as that role was taken from Maureen when she died.

BUT I will say that the episodes were otherwise brilliantly done. I felt like I was a burial and "time after" (as my late mother would say) when everyone gathered back at the Bauer home.

Vanessa was a vision in all white, and 'bitch' Vanessa was alive and well when Holly (girl, get some help) brought Roger's flowers to the burial. There was NO WAY Vanessa was going to let Ed see a card from Roger on flowers at his wife's grave. She snatched the card and tucked it in her purse.

"Maureen will know," Vanessa sneered at Holly.

It can't be a coincidence that Buzz came on right after Maureen's death. The matriarch of GL was sacrificed for money for scene stealing scenery chewing Buzz who stuck around to the finale.

^

there WERE no Reardons...

Beah = Bea

sorry for typos

Richard van Vleet was a truly awful Ed.

Stories from fellow actors at both AMC and GL suggest he was a smug asshole - and you could tell what a asshole he was when he appeared on the Locher Room, so I tend to believe those stories/that gossip.

When Richard Van Vleet was announced as the new Ed, I was excited. He was so dreamy handsome! I had always liked him as Chuck on AMC. Always wished the show had given him more to do and moved him out of the orbit of the Donna Beck creature.

I thought RVV would be perfect as Ed, so imagine my surprise when he proved to be a horrible recast. Within just a few episodes, it was obvious this wasn't working. His Ed was arrogant and superior. He lacked any empathy. Didn't seem connected to any of the other characters, not even Maureen.

I'm just amazed he last the two years of his contact. I figured the show would replace him after six months. I guess Gail Kobe didn't want to admit she got it wrong.

Ellen Parkers version of Boreen is classic. No wonder the focus group wanted her dead.

If only they knew Ellen’s acting prowess. She knocked it out of the park- grand slam. Tina did a great job, too, but no one touched Ellen’s performance.

They knew Ellen was a strong actress. The only other time she had good material was when Ed cheated on her with Holly. That was the problem with Maureen, her only storylines were reacting to Ed’s infidelity.

They could have other things with her-he could have started drinking again. We could have met her ex-husband. She could have had an emotional affair with Roger.

R388 Ed cheated with Holly while Ellen played Mo?

If Ed can cheat on (and beat on) sweet Leslie Jackson, he can cheat on anyone. Ed has fucked everybody, that's why Mike was Bert's favorite - even though he had premarital sex and HAD to get married.

Yea r389. They slept together in 1989 when Holly returned to town.

Well, Mo didn’t go off the deep end like she did with Lillian nor was Holly vilified like Lillian.

Hold up. Ed actually beat women? There’s a lot to add that. I do not know then. He was pretty vanilla when I watched the show.

Funny, for some reason I didn't think Holly and Ed slept together in 1989, I thought they came close but not quite....but clearly the video at R391 shows otherwise.

How could any writer justify Ed beating somebody??

R392 I meant there’s a lot I didn’t know about him. Wow Ed was something else.

[quote]How could any writer justify Ed beating somebody??

It was back during the times when soaps weren't afraid to push the envelope and get their main characters messy.

John Dixon raped Kim on ATWT in the 70s when they were married, and they eventually developed a friendship of sorts.

Men were just raping and raping in the early days of soaps.

[quote]Men were just raping and raping in the early days of soaps.

Those tarts were all asking for it. Begging for it.

Didn’t John Dixon also rape the Dee with the awful beauty mark above her lip?

Yes , it was marital rape, written by the Dobsons. They had previously done this story with Roger and Holly on GL, and with Mary and Mark on Santa Barbara.

So Mike Bauer was the stud and Ed Bauer was the wifebeater?

The way I understand it, Ed started changing shorty after Mart Hulswit replaced Robert Gentry, and became a heroic character when he married Holly, unaware that Christina (Blake) was Roger’s daughter.

Bert kicked me!

It was 40 years ago this Fall when Douglas MarlaNd started writing “As the World Turns”.

40 years?

Pussycat!

Kathryn Hays was 51 when Bob and Kim married. I remember thinking they seemed so old. Now I’m 51.

Was Kim supposed to be a few years younger? I though they said she was in her late 40s when she was pregnant with Chris.

Were there stories that Marland just finished up quickly before going into his own? I know he was able to develop the Lily adoption story from the Sierra story. But surely he must have quashed some storylines?

He got rid of everything McColl, R409. Wisely.

There were several characters that were dumped in 1985 on ATWT, either by Marland or his immediate, credited predecessors.

Lyla’s sister Maggie was married to Steve’s cousin Frank, and they adopted a child-they left around that time.

Paul Stewart’s illegitimate British son Lord Marrkham left town with Marisa Tomei’s Marcy. That character should have been Dan’s son-Dan fled to the UK In the early 70s to keep Emily from Susan, before returning to town played by John Reilly.

Most of the existing teen set was dumped, except for Dusty, Lily and Frannie.

He got rid of all the Lowells, Cassens, and most of the Stewarts. He also brought in the Frames, I mean, the Snyders.

I don’t even remember the Lowells and Cassens.

Why didn’t Jennifer Ashe reprise the role of Meg when they brought the character back in the 2000s? Was she even asked?

Weren’t the Snyders just Oakdale’s answer to the Reardons, whom Marland also created?

Why didn’t they put Lillian with Ed later on?

[quote] Why didn’t they put Lillian with Ed later on?

And let a hussy win the love of a man who belonged to another woman? I mean, can you imagine?

[quote] Weren’t the Snyders just Oakdale’s answer to the Reardons, whom Marland also created?

Yes.

Though the Snyders were supposedly drawing more from Marland's own family.

I guess this is an unpopular opinion, but I loved the introduction of the Snyders, because fresh, unrelated blood-- and lots of it-- was desperately needed on ATWT. The Snyders gave characters like Frannie, Lucinda, John, Lily, Craig, Sierra, Tonio, and Emily a chance to really shine. And boy, did they!

The Snyders were overall a positive add to ATWT, but a.) their relationships were too incestuous; b.) trying to turn Josh Snyder into a hero and making him interact with Iva was odd (especially how her family bullied her into accepting him); and c.) I wish Lisa Brown had been given an opportunity to show her comedic skills, like she did as Nola on GL. Iva was a sad sack.

Lisa was wasted on ATWT.

R421, NOW ya tell me?

Lisa was wasted on ATWT, R421? Come on. Sure, Nola was fun, but on ATWT Lisa Brown gave one of the finest performances ever seen on Daytime. There's just no comparison.

R423 I don’t think many would agree. Maybe I’m wrong. Nola was ultra popular because of Lisa’s performance.

Btw- I think Beth Chamberlin was a very sub-par actress. She never truly inhabited the character of Beth. She reacted. She chewed the scenery. But she never ever had a handle on the character like Judi. Ex: Judi always reacted to India with indifference. Beth Chamberlin would’ve been all over the place. Judi’s Beth had the upper hand. Beth’s Beth didn’t even when the writing said she did like with Olivia.

I felt that Beth Chamberlin was the version of Beth that emerged after all the shit she had gone through. Beth and Judi were playing the character at two different stages of life.

R425 It wasn’t consistent. Even when they wrote Beth as stronger Beth C’s performance didn’t change much.

I liked Beth Chamberlain.

Lisa Brown was exciting when she first came to ATWT as Iva. She was a bit trashy and there was a mystery as to why she'd been been away from her family....and then of course the whole push/pull of the Lily story.

But once that reveal happened, there wasn't a lot for her to do. And I think they made Iva a sad sack to be the opposite of the manipulative Nola, but it wasn't as fun to watch, for sure.

The Snyders were way too incestuous, and I think they sort of ate the show. I understand that's not popular.

I think the Snyders should have been poor relations of the Hughes family, which tied them to the show's core family. Grandpa Hughes was a farmer; the Snyders could have been descendants of one of Grandpa Hughes' siblings.

Iva, as Lilly's bio mom, was great, but Josh's stuff was too much, and then he married her sister.

Then Seth would have been fucking his cousin. And his cousin.

Would it hurt to find a date/spouse/sex partner outside the family?

Holden , Caleb and Seth were all married/involved with Angel.

Holden and Caleb were both married/involved with Lily. Holden slept with julie, who married Caleb.

Iva dumped Kirk who married Ellie. Craig dated Ellie and Iva.

Emma and Iva dated John Dixon.

Iva raped Josh, who gave birth to Lily. Josh then married Meg.

Meg and Lily were both involved with Damian and Dusty.

[quote]Iva raped Josh, who gave birth to Lily.

Oh, dear.

We weren't that woke in Oakdale!

Back in the day, my friend and I always referred to her as “Downtrodden Iva”. She got rejected by Steve Andropolus, had her rape and pregnancy scandal exposed, then fell for a gay guy. I don’t remember any of her other big story arcs.

Did any of you use to post as Little Miss Seattle? I always enjoyed her musings.

I loved the Snyders. I loved their kitchen. I loved their stories.

Funny how the Snyder kitchen remained more or less the same despite moving studios and years of cutbacks to where ministers living room.

[quote]I loved the Snyders. I loved their kitchen. I loved their stories.

I loved their eavesdropping porch.

[quote]Funny how the Snyder kitchen remained more or less the same despite moving studios and years of cutbacks to where ministers living room.

Hard to fit all that into a room at the Yardley.

To where NOBODY had a living room.

The Snyders absolutely ate the show. It became way too much. Has a family ever dominated a show like them?

I liked Beth Chamberlin, too. She was absolutely gorgeous, probably one of the most gorgeous actresses in daytime, and her turn on Law and Order: SVU is very memorable to their fans. She didn’t understand Beth. Her acting was very standard soap opera actress. When her and Phillip were getting back together and he was going after Gus and Harley, her lines were of a strong Beth but her delivery left her looking weaker next to Philip and Olivia. If her dialogue would have been delivered differently Beth came out on top with both. Beth C’s line delivery left her looking weaker.

Speaking of Beth, Maeve Kinkaid was definitely not someone who gave her grief over winning her Emmy. When Maeve won in 1992, Judi gave her an enthusiastic standing ovation and was shown beaming as she was giving her acceptance speech.

Whoever was casting GL and ATWT in the mid 90s to the end rivaled Betty Rae. They found some great talent.

What I miss about watching these shows was the history. It was nice to see a scene with Lucinda and Lily in 2005 and remember their story and the big revelations several years earlier. I miss that.

I liked the Snyders when it was just Emma and her kids, but when they started bringing in all those other relatives, it was a bit too much.

I didn’t really watch for years until the Nuke storyline brought me back. Even then, I pretty much just watched that storyline, and any scene with the veteran actors I’d remembered.

I adored Beth Chamberlain in her 1989-1991 run, when Pam Long was writing her.

Didn't especially care for her when she returned in 1997. Seemed like she was playing a different character than the one I'd come to love in the 1980s.

Only time I really warmed up to Beth C was during that period when the show had Beth paired with Bill Lewis. Of course, that was back in the day when Daniel Cosgrove was still hot and a good pairing. Can't say the same for him these days (check out his recurring role on GH).

Lisa McColl - stop plugging up the toilet! What do you eat????

Hey Linda, ain’t it a kick in the cunt that these queens have abandoned Bay City (again).

R440 Beth and Coop were great together. Beth was Beth again.

I’ll never forgive them for having Beth get pregnant by Alan not once but TWICE aaaaaand have his baby. Disgusting.

Anybody remember Daphne and that fruity French guy on AW? She was gorgeous-I think she was a model from Poland.

R443 Yes, I think that was probably the worst thing GL ever did.

No way would Beth have ever slept with Alan. Never, ever, ever, ever, ever.

R445 It’s infuriating. I refuse to believe it’s canon.

I had to forget it ever happened when Grant/Phillip returned. There's no way he would have accepted that.

[quote]No way would Beth have ever slept with Alan. Never, ever, ever, ever, ever.

Who wrote it?

R448 Not sure. Was the first pregnancy in 2007 or 2008?

Beth and Alan’s daughter, Peyton, quietly vanished after Phillip returned. She was literally never seen or mentioned again.

I think that nonsense was a Dave Kreizman special.

What happened to William Bell Sullivan who played Gary Swanson - Sherry Stringfield's lover, partner in crime, and sometimes her abuser in the early '90s?

I noticed that before soaps he was in a few action movies, and also played Deke on Days of Our Lives for a while in the mid '90s. He was very suave and good looking, with a dark energy that worked well for soaps.

R452 He was sexy. Again, wouldn’t have worked with Liz Keifer.

R452 He was very sexy! I'm pleased to find another person who actually remembers him. I thought I was the only one!

This may be controversial but I always thought, when Beth married Jim and was Susan’s (Brittany Snow) stepmother, that it should have been revealed that Jim was molesting her. Or had a story where Lizzie had a friend who had been raped/molested by her father. It would’ve given Beth some great story mining history AND allowed Brittany Snow, who had already shown she was a great young actress, some material to shine.

Liz Keifer tried hard to have the same effortlessly marvelous quality as Sherry.

Ellen Holly shows up a minute into in this video as Judge Francis Collier, and steals the scene from "The Fifth Blake".

Somebody get this white bitch out of my face!

Ugh, I loathed Eve Guthrie. All the personality of a wet dishrag.

Eve Guthrie was boring but beautiful.

She pronounced Maureen dead. I always wanted it to be that Eve, in cahoots with Roger, had a comatose Maureen spirited away from Springfield to some private care facility where Roger was paying for her care in hopes of curing her.

Roger the serial rapist?

Or Maureen could have been injured/paralyzed in the car accident , instead of dying, and sued for custody of Michelle.

This would have created all sorts of conflict. Vanessa and Roger could support Maureen, perhaps with Bea coming back as well.

Holly could support Ed with a returning Claire and Rick. Beth could show up in town to support Lillian, who would be called to the witness stand.

To this day I do not understand the backlash of killing off “Boreen” Bauer. She was DULL. She was boring. She served no purpose. Thank you, focus group for getting it right!

r386

"Holden! Holden! Holden, Monica Lawrence is mounted and she's ready to ride."

Yes, r462, as you have whined 962 times over the years.

[quote] Holden! Holden! Holden, Hank Elliot is mounted and he's ready to ride

Well, my fantasy, anyway

Geraldine Court article. Interesting read.

Note: There were multiple pages, and they have uploaded out of order. Sorry.

^ I had her.

...

Larry Bryggman is attending? I can’t imagine him putting up with Miss Locher’s nonsense.

The buried lede is that Colleen and Hillary will be on the same Locher Room episode!

I hope Hillary reminds Colleen of what a hussy the vinegary Helen Wagner thought she was.

Wasn't Hillary the cuntessa delle tutte cuntesse, no matter where she worked?

Hillary is like Crystal Chappell. Drama followed them wherever they went. Troublemakers.

I remember she was a bossy bitch when I served on the Best Actress Daytime Emmy blue ribbon judging panels. She made her presence very much felt in that room.

I remember many horse comparisons when she was on OLTL.

[quote] Wasn't Hillary the cuntessa delle tutte cuntesse, no matter where she worked?

I know she came to blows with an ATWT costar during her time there.

But her rumored shit stirring was at OLTL with a certain blonde who was a schemer on and off screen.

Wasn’t HBS Marland’s mole on the ATWT, telling him what the actors were saying, just like John Wesley Shipp and Marsha Clark on GL?

I wonder what vinegary old Helen Wagner thought of Colleen Zenk and Hillary beating the crap out of each other. I hope she pulled those two tramps aside and told them this is OAKDALE, not a female mud wrestling pit.

Ladies, this is Oakdale WENDY'S...R478!

Lort! HBS was that unhinged? How’d she get work?

GL’s Tom Pelphrey is getting good reviews for HBO’s Task. On his 2006 Emmy win video on YouTube Frank Beatty (Brent/Marian) supposedly commented on it saying he noticed Tom on Ozark, was floored by him, looked him up, realized they had GL in common. He really seems to think Tom’s talent is uber huge ( I do, too).

I'm surprised that Pelphry isn't a movie star by now, but I think he still will be, sooner or later.

Pelphrey needs a breakout role. He is getting noticed, and Task will help, but if he gets a break out role I believe he will be a huge movie star.

What did Vinegary Helen think about Terri Colombino cheating on Artie with Austin Peck? Hussy 2.0!

Tom P should be in a movie with fellow P&G alum (and Oscar winner) Julianne Moore.

I remember Hilary said in an interview once. People either LOVE ME or HATE ME- No in between. I appreciate her honesty anyway.

So that Barbara/ Margo stuff carried over into real life?

Parker Posey says Zenk told her to be careful what she says as the walls have ears. HBS was gone by then so I wonder to whom Zenk was referring.

Wasn’t there also an issue between HBS/Margaret Reed too, or was it Colleen and Margaret?

[quote] So that Barbara/ Margo stuff carried over into real life?

Yes. HBS said some nasty things about Colleen and Mark Pinter and push came to shove.

Seriously, R486?

OOPS!

Seriously, R485?

R485 And P&G Oscar winner Allison Janney!

Yes! Julianne and Allison play lesbians and Tom is their son!

Like The Kids Are All Right.....but then not.

R493 YES!!!!!!!

I watched ATWT occasionally and found it interesting but it never captured me like GL. It, along with Y&R, are the only other soaps I found watchable. I enjoyed ATWT and Y&R, but honestly the Snyders were too much, and I could never get into Bob and Kim (or Bert or Henry on GL) and the same ol same ol stories on Y&R grew tiresome.

R494 I oughta kick you with my good leg.

Or have Rita do it. Her knees haven't been together since 1978......

Which P&G characters needed to be kicked with Bert Bauer’s good leg?

R496 Beth, for taking all of Springfield’s hot dick.

There were a few heinous hussies here in Oakdale who could have benefited from a good kick!

And I'm the equine who can do it.

Anyone got any oats? My feedbag is empty.

Nancy hated Bert for always calling her “Trudy.” Meta hated Bert for making Papa’s funeral all about her.

BERT. PAPA. WTF?

GL sounded as trashy as an Oklahoma morning on a MAGA ranch.

All those Krauts! If Nancy smelled like vinegar, did Bert smell like sauerkraut or cabbage?

Bert, Papa, Meta, trudy

These people sound old, smelly, and ugly!

No wonder why my MY show was created!

R503, yes, dear, the untalented actors had to start somewhere.