How many close friends do you have?

It kind of depends on what you mean by "close." People define it differently.

I wonder if many Dataloungers consider Datalounge a close friend.

Does Chaturbate count?

Most people’s friends are probably AI now.

I'm ashamed to admit that I have zero friends.

Not a lot of people with friends here....

It depends on your definition of "close friends"!!

I have college& Grad school friends that are like family, men& women from Wall Street who became great friends. I was not an easy person to know back in NYC, cut-throat, mean, grudge against the world.

My neighbors from La Jolla, my closest friends ever. They have put up with me since 1995-96, and when I had my car accident, they jumped in right away& took care of the children, animals and the home until I got better.

My mussy is more popular than I am.

None. I have a few people from school that I could "reach out to" in certain circumstances, but I actually have no close friends.

I have a lot of acquaintances.

I have one close friend I could confide most anything to. I’m pretty close to my brother and consider him a friend.

I had one friend of 30 years from college who I considered a close friend, but she kind of ghosted me. That’s been very hurtful, but I’ll deal with it. It’s weird because our friendship was very low maintenance— we live far apart, so mostly communicated by text and phone. But she just stopped responding.

Like R6 said, it depends on what you mean by close friends. I have 2 friends from childhood that are still my very closest friends. They are literally like family to me. I have a number of friends that are people I originally met either from work or through people that I knew through work. I routinely have lunch or dinner with 8 from that group, however I'm really much closer to 3 of them. There is an expanded number of people connected to that group that I see a few times a year at parties. We would refer to each other as friends, but we don't travel together or see each other for months at a time. I had one other very close friend that died of cancer several years ago. I tend to think of myself as not having a particularly large number of friends because my parents were VERY social and I am not. They would have parties with 75+ people at a time. There were over150 people at my sister's wedding and most of them were friends of my parents (it's okay, my parent's paid for it). They were freaking out about having to trim it down and not including some people. I don't have nearly that many acquaintances let alone friends. Looking at this poll on DL, I guess I'm not as introverted as I thought.

I would say at least 6-8 - maybe more. More people confide in me than I confide in them - but I can think of at least 6 who know where my bodies are buried and I know where theirs are. Those are REAL friends.

The moment you display genuine interest in another person - his history, his interests and passions- he will quickly want to be your friend. (Because that curiosity is so rare in our times). The question is, do you want to be HIS friend?

What I look for in friends. Intelligence. Empathy. Lively sense of humor. (One of the most important qualities) . Someone who is not judgmental. Someone who does not feel the need to compete with me in every aspect of life. At least some shared interests. Sensitivity. Vulnerability. Loyalty. Although everyone I consider a friend does not share these characteristics in equal measure, they will all have the majority of these characteristics. I try to be this kind of friend to them as well. If I meet people who don't have these characteristics I will treat them with consideration, but I won't "pursue" them as in seeking out opportunities to be in their company.

When I was in the process of retiring from a long-term job and moving back to the west coast, I held a party for my friends, while my sister was visiting me. Her comment after the party was, "How lucky you are in your friends". And she was right. I have been very blessed with the high quality of my friends through the years.

I'm staying at a shared AirBnB and there are probably a dozen young, early 20s people here. They're interacting in the same loud, shallow glib "let's crush beer and pussy" type way with fucks sprinkled into every sentence. No regard for anyone else sleeping.

They're about nothing but themselves and sensation in the moment. I'm sure that's very fleeting friendship and when life gets hard I can't imagine any of these people being there for another.

I think the lonely population would have thrived better in the days of decorum, propriety, gentle and learned men. Or maybe they would be sifting brandy alone by the fireplace and having duels, who really knows?

I have 7 close friends. Two I see all the time. The other five I text (semi) regularly and see when one of us is in the other's city.

They are all like family to me and even if we don't speak for months and months, I love and adore them.

I also have a bout ten other "good" friends. People I care about, but don't keep in regular contact with.

[quote]It kind of depends on what you mean by "close." People define it differently.

True. I would say about 15, true friends where we know each other's qualities and faults and have a real understanding and appreciation of one another, would not hesitate to offer help, and love being on each other's company.

There's more to the definition of course, and hopefully you love your friends for who they are and for their differences and quirks, each on his own scale with no uniform rating system.

I always hesitate when people measure friendship by "being there when things get tough" or "would he accompany me to my colonoscopy and see me home safely?" or would he install tile in bathroom tests. Those measures often sound as though the tester is only too happy to cut off friendships that are not sufficiently transactional/reciprocal. Friends are what they give to you and everyone had their own strengths and weaknesses in that respect, generous in their own individual ways. Standardized tests don't work.

I’m an absolute extrovert and have loads of friends, probably about 10 I’d say are close. I totally agree about men losing friend networks, especially as my circle ages. I’m often surprised at how friends (often straight men) can’t actually have a conversation. They’ll give me a monologue on their life, but don’t ask any questions and struggle to maintain a conversation. It’s frustrating / weird / surpassingly consistent.

I wouldn't count them among my friends, R15, but I certainly know many men of whom for whom conversation is limited to recounting parts of a life monologue and scattered truisms.

It's a sort of conversation you would hear at the annual garden party at the big boss's house: "married...two kids...wife is Ginnie, yeah, that's right from Accounting...live over in Crestwood...bought about 25 years ago...best thing we ever did...yeah, well none of us are getting younger, right?"

I have about 6-8 people that are friends I consider family, so therefore define as close. The friendships span 30-50+ years. But also I am very close to several cousins, and have been for my whole life. They were my very first friends, and have been so always. I consider myself lucky.

We're a pitiful bunch.

There's something sweetly honest about the fact that 0 friends is winning the poll above.

I have lots of aquaintences. For survival.

Not sure I'd trust them.

Do husbands and brothers count?

I was always one to have one or 2 close friends at most and no other friends. Maybe workplace friends you'd occasionally go for drinks after work but nothing serious. Quality over quantity for me.

Six or seven maybe? I have HUSBAND and 3 of his, one was a nextdoor neighbor straight guy his whole life since childhood. He's become my close friend now too.

Husband has 3 of mine, 2 since high school. Another is an older gay gentleman. polite but direct.

For everyone reading this thread, please remember the old saying : "In times of trouble, you will know who your real friends are."

In the past five years in my times of trouble with suffering through the pandemic, the loss of my elderly father and others during the pandemic, the loss of a job because of the pandemic, and currently a 3 month laborforce interruption at my place of employment (I am part of management, not on the picket lines), my 'closest friends' really rose to the top : 3 female friends all around my age (early / mid 60s) who actually took time out of their busy lives to check on me and see how I've been doing and how I can help. 3 friends who I have known since high school (40+ years ago). I realized these were the three who are my closest (especially this summer as I was navigating the strike). All three were at the ready if I needed something - even to just go out that night and talk (and one of them is in the midst of planning her daughter's wedding which is happening in a few weeks). Not one said, 'Tonight's not good - how about next week?' They did say, 'Let me make a few calls to rearrange a few things and I'll get back to you' and sure enough they did get back within an hour and said, 'All set. Where would you like to meet ?" I will be forever grateful to each of them.

None of my male friends - especially my gay male friends - who I have always supported through times of trouble by checking in on them and seeing how I could be of help and support (through job losses, acrimonious divorces, partnership break-ups, business failures, deaths, mortgage foreclosures, etc.) All they offered me in my times of troubles over the past five years was a robotic "Sorry to hear that" and the conversations turned back to them. I've learned - boy have I learned! I learned how to say in a robotic voice, "Sorry to hear that" next time they call me with their latest tales of woes, and no longer ask, "How can I be of help ? What do you need at this time ? Do you want to meet up for dinner so we can talk ?" I learned. "

I thought I had many close friends until I read a post on DL about one-sided friendships. When I stopped reaching out, I stopped hearing from quite a few of them. It was eye-opening and a little sad.

You can lose close lifelong friends in bad ways and it is really hard.

I lost 2 friends to meth and one died in an accident. Then you can have a really close friend, but they may be 2,000 or 3,000 miles away. That makes it hard.

Replacing a long-time friend is almost impossible.

Luckily, I still have 3 super close friends left - but only 1 lives in the same city. As you get older, sustaining deep friendships or developing new ones becomes harder - and studies have shown that.

A lot of people in the business and entertainment world throw around 'friend' really loosely - but we know it's all for business and for them to get ahead/contacts to make things happen. It's not friendship. And I hate that celebrities talk like that - 95% of them do.

Trump, Martha Stewart are huge examples of this - in reality, very few people like them outside of what they can do for them.

I have sufficient.

I don’t know, I think Martha seems pretty realistic about her “friendships.”

I think she’s aware that she’s a pretty intense and introverted (dnd somewhat solitary) person. Her Netflix doc is a great watch.

She might not be beloved by fellow famous people, but I think she’s admired and respected by people with half a brain. The more “warts and all” she presents herself, the more I like her.

I think a lot of people feel this way about her, which I imagine she finds very surprising. Most of her life she seemed to think she needed to be perfect to be accepted.

Yes, I’ve thought about this way too much.

R28 - she still throws around 'friend' way too easily, when it is a social or business acquaintance.

Barbara Walters was also one of those types - any person she had more than a 5 minutes conversation with, she proclaimed she was friends with. That's the type I'm talking about. It's like having a 1000 friends on Facebook - no, you don't.

For some people, that's enough. But for more sensitive and deeper people, friendships are really meaningful, deep and rare. People approach the idea of friendship so differently and yet they get confused with each other.

And, as with everything in a materialistic society, the 'more' you can show you have or state that you have - the better person you're perceived as being. Which we all know is horseshit.

I agree with you, r29. I suspect even some people on this thread use the term “friend” when I would use “acquaintance.”

Mind you, acquaintances can be great. They are the work friends, the friends-of-friends with whom we spent most of our thirties going to happy hour and brunch!

I can’t imagine having eight close friends. But then I’m a chilly bitch.

Between people moving, dying and acting abusively, not many. I'm in my 60s and people just don't interest me enough to try to make more friends or join groups to socialize. I did try to do volunteer work for a gay and lesbian senior organization during the spring, but I didn't like the vibe, for the most part. I have always been an introvert, conscientious, very interested and curious about life. I never found most people interesting, funny or nice, and this seems to have increased with age. The only thing that has changed is that I've accepted this completely, appreciate the value of these traits, and focus on the good memories.

The fit for tat, "there for me in times of trouble" seems a very specific test that few will meet. I have friends who would be very little comfort if I told them about a breakup or some trying time. Some of them are the same who went out of their way to make me feel welcome and included in their lives and circles of friends when I moved to a new country. They helped me in all kinds of ways, but I know if I were to invite them to lunch and give a sad story, they wouldn't be of great help in that respect.

Friends are what they give you. Their generosity and other traits are specific. Some are hugely generous in strange and wonderful ways, but few and roundly and equally generous in all things. How could they be?

For most of my life I had 2-3 close friends and a sprinkling of casual acquaintances, but in the last few years my social network has just crashed. People turned mean and crazy. Or maybe they were always like that and my standards for acceptable behavior have changed. I don't feel lonely, just relieved to not deal with people who leave me feeling confused and stressed out.

The other thing that complicates things for gay men and lesbians - is that we can't just be open to everyone and know not everyone will like us or want to be around us because we are gay.

Perhaps it is less with younger generation - but mark my words - once your straight friends marry and have kids, you will be a distant memory, no matter how accepting they are.

Most gays have been raised with having a guard up - for good reason. Then gay men being close friends with gay men - sometimes that can be messy with potential feelings or competition. Don't get me wrong - I have gay male friends, but I'm just saying it is a bit different.

There is this social expectation or thought that if you have a LOT of friends - then you are a great person and you are very happy and fulfiilled. I hate that perspective.

We are social creatures and we do need each other - but your worth and 'goodness' is not defined by the quantity of 'friends' you can count.

The people who are like that typically will have some anxiety about being alone or some other fucked up neurotic tendency that you don't notice for many months.

We all have different definitions of what constitutes a close friendship.

For example, my partner and I have had some guys we have considered close friends for more than 20 years, but over the last year it has become apparent to us that they were never really friends. We were just people with intersecting social needs.

So I’m not sure we are all counting the same way.

I have always had a handful of close friends but as I get older, much older, scary how much older, they're starting to die. I've lost three really good friends in the last three years (all to cancer). At this rate, I won't have any friends -- or at least, I won't have an old friends.

I can, and have made, some new friends.

But you can't make old friends. And that makes me very sad.

Do frenemies count?

JD Vance has entered the chat.

What about rivals?

Do kids count? Because my three kids ARE my BEST friend - and I am THEIRS!

No, seriously! I'm not just a cool mom, I'm also their best friend.

I was there from the beginning of their lives and nursed them through each illness and failure/success. Unlike Heather, who THINKS she's my daughter's best friend cuz they've been in the same school since Kindergarten. You know what Heather? We can CHANGE SCHOOLS - and she won't remember you AT ALL. Stay in your fucking lane BITCH - this is MY daughter! I am her only best friend!

Whoo - where was I? Oh yes, I think kids count.

[quote]For most of my life I had 2-3 close friends and a sprinkling of casual acquaintances, but in the last few years my social network has just crashed.

This has sort of happened to me over the past five years, but for me it is by design. I used the Pandemic as a great tool to reassess all my 'friendships' and see which were worth keeping and which were not. I dropped three 'close friends' .

Two were very needy and the conversations were all about them.

One was a friend of 40 years, a married woman who would talk about her miserable marriage (no kids) and try to convince herself it was actually a happy marriage. Every conversation was like this and got worse over the years. I realized at every breakfast, lunch or dinner we'd meet up at, she never asked anything about me or my life. Never. Once the pandemic hit, I stopped going to restaurants. She reached out a number of times between 2022-23, and I told her I was not ready to return to restaurants yet ( a lie). I have not heard from her since, and I'm all the better for it.

Next up was a friend of 30 years - a gay male in his 50s who was a perpetual victim all his life. Everything bad which happened to him was everyone else's fault - everything good was because of him. I put up with his crap because I felt bad for him (he went through friends like I go through underwear). Again, zero interest in me / my life when we met up for dinner. Last I spoke to him (2022-23) I told him I'd be in touch once I returned to restaurants. Again, all the better for it.

The next was a very good friend I adored who -unfortunately- lost his job in the pandemic (construction manager) and turned to alcohol. Severely. There was nothing anyone could do to help since he wanted no help. I couldn't put up with that (I don't drink, no one in my family or other friends drink) so I had to end that friendship as I had no experience in handling it. I blocked his phone number so I wouldn't have to wake up to his drunken calls and texts during the night. I hope he's well.

I had three very close friends during my life. One I knew since kindergarten, one since age 12-13 from my block, and one since college. I had other close friends but over the years they fall by the wayside and life gets in the way, so that we end up only do the Christmas card exchange thing.

The college friend slowly drifted away over the years, especially after his third marriage and moving 3000 miles away. The one I knew since age 5 I had a falling out with in my late thirties because he kept making up obvious bullshit lies and attempting to play head games with me. The one friend I knew from age 13 I am still very close with, and we talk on the phone or text at least once a week, and while we no longer live in the same city, make an effort to see each other at least 4-5 times a year.

There are also a lot of party people with party friends - for drinking, drugs, sex - I see a lot of that in the gay community.

It's not really friendship - it is company while you're out on your party, drug or sex conquests. It's circuit queens without the circuit parties, which I presume are pretty much dead.

Interesting that most people who have terminated friendships have done it for the same reason: the friend didn't ask about them, didn't seem interested in them, only talked about themselves.

I don't remember a time in my life when so many people seem so totally self-involved and believe that a friendship consists of taking about only their lives, no one else's. No questions asked.

Many reasons for this but I think part of it is social media, where the interaction is essentially between you and a non-human: your screen. And covid has had an impact I don't think most people still understand: it drove so many people inward toward either self-discovery (good) or self-obsession (not so good). And by far, by far, most of it was the latter.

R44 - you teach people how to teach you. If you're a good listener AND you don't offer up a lot about your life, someone has to keep the convo going with something. Yes there are self-absorbed people - but you allow them to be. You have to call them out on it - "you haven't asked a single thing about me or my life tonight". That usually stops them cold and changes their behavior. They don't realize it because you allow it.

Here's the other part about being gay / lesbian and general friendships - I've noticed a lot of straight people (usually white) seem to want or be able to get along with either side of the political spectrum. "Oh we just don't talk about that".

I don't feel like I have the privilege of doing that when one side wants to take away our rights. I cannot tolerate being a friend with someone who votes for a party that is willfully malevolent towards anyone other than rich white people. That cuts out almost half the population in the US - including FAMILY.

[quote] None of my male friends - especially my gay male friends - who I have always supported through times of trouble by checking in on them and seeing how I could be of help and support

This is terrible. I'm sorry you had that experience with male friends.

I have a “friend” of over 30 years who never returns calls or texts me. If I text her, she doesn’t respond. These are just silly “I hope you are watching White Lotus!” type texts. So, not me being woe-is-me.

We live on opposite coasts, so we don’t have too many chances to get together. About the time I completely give up, she’ll come out of the woodwork. It’s very frustrating.

I think I’m truly going to give up this time. Feeling connected on a regular basis is the whole point of friendship. If you can’t send a 10- second text every couple of weeks, what’s the point? I don’t expect to blow up her phone.

I have had rough spots in the past— and so has she. But it’s been over 20 years since I tried to “lean” on her for anything. I think she still holds it against me.

Whereas she got involved with a married man, then a scam artist who had ALL the red flags. She’s had legal issues. When these situations inevitably fell apart, I helped her through it. So I’m not sure why she’s decided I’m the one who needs to be avoided.

I have a cute younger friend named Lucas whom I met at my place of work (he had a part time job there a couple of summers ago). He's 30 years younger and somewhat socially awkward. He tries hard to be personable and caring, but he's not quite cutting it. I think he wins people over with his handsome face and nice body (and he's 6'2"). His full time job is a High School History teacher. He's an only child, and comes from an Italian family who came to America shortly before he was born. So we'll meet for dinner a few times a year, and I know he's trying hard to be polite and do the right things in a social setting.

We take our seats, the water is poured and before we order drinks or open the menu he says, "So how's your job ? How's your sister ? How's your dog ? In that order." LOL! It's like he's giving me a class assignment - go up to the head of the class and tell me 'x,y, and z' - in that order.

I respond, "Job is going well, sister is doing fine, and the dog is a little troublemaker. But enough about me, Lucas - tell me about what's been going on with you" ... because I know he's dying to talk all about himself. And he does - for the next two hours. "OK, here's everything from A to Z..." and I swear he memorizes important and not so important events in his life alphabetically. He's too adorable.

Now I'll admit I don't pay attention to everything (and I get nervous - what if there's a quiz at the end?) and my mind starts to wander and I think my eyes glaze over. But he's such a fine specimen in front of me, I don't care. I like to look at his face and sculpted arms under his clothes and wonder - why isn't he gay ?

In the parking lot he gives me his 'bro hug' and says, "Love getting together with you and catching up. We really got to do this more often." I'm tempted to say, 'No three times a year is more than enough'. I just smile and say, 'You bet!'

He tries, he really tries.

I have found that a few people have come in and out of my life: we were close friends in our 20s, then drifted apart, ran into each other in our 40s, became close friends again... then drifted once more... but if I ran into him now, in my 60s, I'd love to pick up where we left off. Not all close friends stay with you all your life, but for someone who really has been a close friend, there's always the possibility of reigniting the friendship just as it was.

When a "close friend" relationship becomes too one-sided, it's time to either cut it off or minimize the connection.

The over 10 people scare me.

Who has over 10 "close friends?" Even if that were possible, which I don't think it really is possible to be genuinely "close" with that many people, it sounds absolutely exhausting. .

To R49- my East Falls and Roxborough childhood friends are all like that, we can pick up a conversation from 25 years ago& talk about the neighborhood& people. We all knew each other, good or bad and we all went to St Bridget's grade school or Mifflin public school.

R50, it took me a long time to figure this out and to just let it go. I perseverated on it all daily & felt a lot of pain wondering why she wasn't contacting me. I knew this wasn't healthy. I finally decided to block her so she couldn't contact me and the pain left within a day. We had been friends for over 25 years. I focus on the good memories and wish her well. Amazingly, I seldom think about her now.

There is a lot to be said about accepting the truth about a situation, taking some form of control, and moving on.

Sometimes people switch to other priorities or people in their life, and basically ignore those that were either important or heavily involved in their lives. For the most part, I see them as just selfish people who I am better of without in the long run.

I have10 very close friends. I actually am not great at making "social" friends. So I have the opposite problem of many.

[quote]I thought I had many close friends until I read a post on DL about one-sided friendships. When I stopped reaching out, I stopped hearing from quite a few of them. It was eye-opening and a little sad.

You definitely need to be careful if people never initiate conversation--- you don't want to be oblivious and force your presence upon them---but some people are more passive or more busy. If they respond at length and with enthusiasm that means something. But, correctly, you should not build your life around them.

I have lots of people with whom I'm friendly. But for decades I've had the same 3 close real friends. True blue friends who will stop whatever they are doing, come or from wherever they are, if I need them. I would do the same for them. 2 of them I've known since 1st grade in 1959. The third is the youngest and the father of my 2 godchildren, and unarguably the one I'm closest with.

I've always been saddened by anyone I met who didn't have any close friends. Someone they could count on through thick and thin. If you have 1 true blue friend you have to treasure that friendship because true blue friendships are not easy to obtain. Sadly, most people these days are only out for themselves and have little or no time for anyone else. And many who claim to be your friend are only around for whatever benefit they can gain from the association.

I used to be always jealous of groups of gay men who met regularly and seemed to have fun together until I realized that they were frequently a cauldron of envy, gossip and indifference. In many ways they resemble groups of females where the cuntery is ongoing. In straight guy groups the men don't seem to be as neurotic about each other.

R58, that's true. Especially for the "A" gays who are part of the scene. Those friendships won't last. I'm glad the gay men I know are not like that.

[quote]Who has over 10 "close friends?"

I'm hardly a huge extrovert but I can count that many close friends. (Not am I remotely a scene queen who chases the appearance of popularity; and a majority of my close friends are not gay.)

In part, it's due to what R49 describes, the ability to instantly fall back in with friends despite time and distance. It's not as though I can step out into the street and run into all 10+ close friends within a couple of city blocks. There's no Central Perk for that sort of coincidence.

Some years ago I moved to another country and my closest friends are now divided more or less by halves. My friends of decades (from university and soon after) are on one side of an ocean, and my newer friends are on another. Then there are friends I made here who are away travelling or working in other countries and will be, probably a few years or more. I have to contrive ways to see distant friends and to keep some level of communication with the distant ones do that we're not starting over from nothing when we do see one another.

Communication and keeping up takes various forms depending on the person and where they are, but more than that it's that quality of close friends that makes it work. It's the sense of never having enough hours in a day to talk and enjoy the company of your closest friends that's the glue, and it's a special sense of intense connection that in many cases happened within hours of having met. My closest friends are the people I can just start talking with in our own language and the chronologies eventually fall into place for those that I don't see locally and often.

[quote]In straight guy groups the men don't seem to be as neurotic about each other.

There's an epidemic of male suicide and unaddressed male mental illness. I wouldn't be so envious of straight men, they're just as neurotic but in a different way. Gay men are bitchy to one another, straight men beat their wives and go on shooting sprees.

I only have about two, and I was devastated the other day to learn that one is permanently moving to Germany. I honestly felt like a had a knife in my heart when I found out.

I agree that it is possible to have ten close friends even though I don't think that is typical. It's hard to pick an exact number at which the claim of close friendship becomes ridiculous---certainly before you reach 20.

I had a close friend but he was toxic that I have known for 30 plus years. However, toxic and he is no longer a friend. After that happen, I felt freedom and then remorse. I thought about contacting him and decided it was for the best to leave it be.

At this point, zero close friends with a handful of friends. I'm okay.

I think some of us have different definitions of close friends. I define it narrowly as someone I would tell me darkest secrets to, usually someone I have already established that level of trust and intimacy with. They"re the people I tell everything to and don't hold back with. The first ones I'd call with news of my terminal diagnosis or lottery winnings. The most trusted confidants.

I have a very large circle of friends that I've known for years, some for decades. If I threw a party, they'd all make the guest list. They're all on my Christmas card list. I love all of them and consider every one of them a friend; I would do anything for them at a moment's notice. But the number of them that I truly consider "close friends" of the sort I described above is a very low, single digit.

My best friend died recently. I don't have any close friends now except for my spouse and family, which I'm ok with. I do have friends, just not close ones.

I can see having ten people you would feel comfortable sharing very intimate information with.

I feel comfortable sharing personal info with many because I don't have anything to hide. That doesn't constitute "close friends" though. Close friends in my book are those who tolerate the differences with you, who are available when you need them and who show you appreciation for having you in their lives. I'm lucky to have 2 of those.

I lost two of my closest friends (the ones who knew my deep dark secrets) in my late 30s. One died of AIDS, the other was murdered.

I have one close friend from childhood remaining, and I count my husband and my brother as close friends as well.

Honestly AI will end up being everyone's bestie

Plus our AI fleshlight lover.

There will be fights and endless incriminations between both, which will end up in tears, reboots, trash can binnings and cancelled subscriptions

Then the cycle will begin again

My brother is a narc so no he’s not a friend.

Be careful what you tell these 'close friends' in confidence. When they have a little too much to drink, all bets are off - trust me, I have had that experience with a 'close friend' at a holiday dinner.

As others have pointed out, people have different definitions of what a close friend is. To me, it would be impossible to have 10 close friends, because if giving your all to a friendship is what makes it close (my definition) you simply wouldn't have time to devote your all to so many people. There'd be nothing left for yourself.

I was texting with a 55 year old friend (more of a let's grab lunch every couple of months) last night. 'Jay' moved to ME from RI over the weekend, so I wanted to know how the move went and wish him luck on his new venture (he starts a big job at a new company next week). He told me the move didn't go as smoothly as he was planning.

He had 3 close friends who he believed he could depend on to help him with the move (basically packing up his apartment with him and helping him load up his UHaul over the weekend). He'd been planning this with them for a month, since he accepted the job offer. He lives in a 2 br apartment, beautifully furnished with a 'cook's kitchen' so he had a lot to pack up (starting with all his small appliances in the kitchen). No small task.

His best friend 'Ken' from high school (been friends for 40 years) accepted an invitation to P-town for the weekend instead, claiming he 'completely forgot' this was the weekend Jay needed him to help out and pack for his move. Just completely forgot when he got the last-minute invite on Wednesday.

His close friend 'Alex' ghosted him the whole weekend. No return calls or texts. As of last night, still hadn't heard anything. They've known each other for decades. And his third close friend 'Bobby' kept making excuses and telling him he was 'running late' and he'd be there in an 'hour' and ended up never showing all weekend. His excuse was 'he had a family emergency' (even though he has no family relations in America - they are all in his native India).

Let's face it - here in RI it was a beautiful weekend to end the summer. Weather was perfect and the sun was out every day. Who wants to spend a beautiful weekend packing up a second floor apartment going up and down steep stairs (it's a very old tenement house with no elevator) when it's not their apartment they have to pack up?

Jay learned his lesson - everyone - including your closest gay male friends' - is dependable until you need them. Rely on no one but yourself, and you won't be disappointed. If they want to stop by and pitch in for a while, fine. That's a welcome surprise. But never plan with them and depend on them with a job this big.

R74 - that sucks for your friend but, to be honest, expectations of multiple hours of manual labor, particularly packing or moving, is usually left in the dust by the age of 30 or 35.

That's when I stopped with helping friends move or pack - I will put in a donation for movers or packers, but I'm not throwing my back out or taking up an entire weekend over it. Let alone a holiday weekend.

Personally, I would find a request like that to be really off-putting - and I'm the same age as your friend. Expecting free manual labor from your friends has a shelf-life and it expired years ago.

R75 I agree with a lot of what you said (though at any age - even in your 30s - it's hard to get dependable friends to commit). I believe his friend Bobby is still in his 30s. They met at another job about ten years ago, and quickly became 'best friends', as Bobby was new to the country. Alex is maybe early/mid 40s (handsome guy with an incredible body).

Though I don't know the full dynamics, I'm not 100% sure Jay asked them outright for help. I do recall when he accepted the job towards the end of July, they did go out to celebrate (Jay's treat) and I was invited (but couldn't make it). Knowing Jay as much as I know him, I think he probably mentioned he had a lot coming up in the next month (finding an apartment in ME, breaking his lease here in RI, moving, etc) and knowing the other three (as little as I know them but I've been in their company) they all volunteered to help him pack up and move (maybe not realizing Labor Day was so early). I have a feeling Ken offered first and then the other two jumped in (probably after a few drinks and they were feeling happy).

So if he did ask for their help, they should have been honest with him five weeks ago and said, "I don't think I can help that weekend" or they should've never volunteered to help if they can't commit. Or simply say 'Let me check my calendar and I'll get back to you by the end of next week' - and then decide. If they said 'no' up front I know there would be no hard feelings - Jay would've arranged to hire movers for that weekend.

R76 - sounds like the plans weren't confirmed. It is one thing to have your friends over for a few hours - having 3 or 4 friends come over and unpack or pack for 2 hours = 6 to 8 hours or a whole day of time saved.

But to expect more than that at age 55 is a bad assumption. And I don't think it shows the friends in a bad light at all. He should have planned and packed a lot of stuff ahead of time.

I've had to move several times the past few years due to pandemic and new jobs - I always hired packers (via TaskRabbit or something similar). Yes it adds a few hundred dollars on to the move, but it makes it so much easier and less exhausting. Plus there's no half-assing the job - they are there to work. Unlike friends, who will stop to gab, play music, order food, etc.

It isn't something to lose friendships over. Waiting until the end and expecting your friends to do the majority of work is not a friend thing to do. I hope he can move on from this and not be bitter.

R74, while I winced in pain and disappointment reading your story of your friend's move and the trusted, closest friends who proved unreliable, I have to agree with R75.

When someone tells me they are moving I wish them good luck and tell them that I won't be of much use to them. I'm 65 and haven't relied on friends to move me for the better part of my life now. A few times a close friend has offered to come over to help pack some delicate things or to help sort boxes that go to charity or auction or wherever. I'm happy to do that much to help a friend, but I'm not about the load boxes and U-Hauls like I'm a longshoreman. That's too much to ask of a friend, and it's especially too much when you're 55-years-old and plan to ask your high school friends of 40+ years. That's just nuts. And if his apartment is beautifully furnished and outfitted with all the accoutrements of a proper chef's kitchen, a double-scold on your friend.

Hire some fucking movers like an adult. Round up some day laborers from Home Depot or some place to load the pre-filled and sealed boxes in U-Haul and repeat in his new location if he thinks that's such a fun idea. Movers are expensive for a reason. No one likes the actual moving part of a move. And the cost in his case is distrusting the friends he trused a week before, and being generally pissed off with them. You pay for moving one way or another, better to part with some money.

Yes, true close friends are people on whom you can rely...but that doesn't mean you can call on them to do ANYTHING for you: organ donation, "$100,000 no questions asked", criminal acts...and moving. Past the stage of moving a futon and some crates of books in college (dangling the promise of pizza), be an adult and realize it's not something you want to burden your friends with if you can possibly pay for a move or find a better solution.

Friends exist to surprise and delight and challenge and support and make fun of (only in love, of course), to support you emotionally or give you a kick in the ass when you need it. They don't exist to help cheapskate friends save a few bucks.

Your friend went a test too far and found out.

R78 - let's also not forget, what if some of the friends half-ass the job and don't pack well? Opening up your boxes that your friends packed and find shit broken, chipped, or shattered is going to leave you resentful. If it happens with a 3rd party mover - oh well, that sucks, but it happens.

I've never hired anyone from a Home Depot - although I know many people do. I just wouldn't feel good about having several guys who may or may not speak English very well in my house. And I don't know their names, IDs, phone numbers, etc.

I know the chances of anything happening are really low - but I have an unease about it. Wish I didn't.

R77 Again, I don't know all the dynamics of what went on between the three of them. But Jay seems rather reasonable and responsible. I'd doubt there was no communication and confirmations as the days got closer. I honestly think as they kept their eye on the weather forecast (which was originally a mixed-bag) they changed their minds P-town sound much better than schlepping boxes around an apartment).

But who knows ? I've been in similar situations in the past for very important happenings and learned my lessons - do not depend on friends. I don't think Jay will hold a grudge or be bitter or end the friendships, but I also think he's happy he's now a few hours away from them at this time.

I think it's a hell of a lot easier to say you have a larger number of close friends if you stayed in one place growing up and didn't move much in your life.

There are a lot of people - particularly straight people - who haven't moved more than 10-15 miles away from where they grew up.

That's not me at all - my parents moved us around a lot due to careers/separations - the longest I've lived anywhere was 9 years in a condo in a huge city from late 30s to 40s. Usually it's 4 years or less.

Family and friend support is a great thing - but the idea of never moving anywhere new in your entire life is just so foreign and limiting for me. I can't imagine it. And I would have to think many of those people are terrified at the thought.

Well over a hundred!

[quote]I think it's a hell of a lot easier to say you have a larger number of close friends if you stayed in one place growing up and didn't move much in your life.

[quote]There are a lot of people - particularly straight people - who haven't moved more than 10-15 miles away from where they grew up.

I can see that it would definitely be a factor, R81...for some people. If you stayed in the same place all of your life, particularly if it's a small town, it would seem more likely that you might have those friendships that date to elementary school years. What would be the chance of adding to that circle as an adult in a place where the population is comparatively static?

The kid whose parents move him around often has to start over again, and again being the strange new kid in a school where everyone seems to know everything about everyone else. He has to form friendships, often within existing circles of friends, only to have to do it all over again in a couple of years. He's much less likely it would seem to find himself in adulthood with many close friends from elementary or high school years.

On the other hand, I have a number of friends who, in their 20s or 30s, travelled everywhere, learned a few extra languages, went to parties, cleaned up after tsunamis, worked at strange jobs, fucked everyone, befriended even more people. and who have circles of close friends (active and inactive) by the scores, across continents. Of course at some point it's impossible to maintain contact with many other friends when many are equally in motion, and these friends will admit that often the closeness of their relationship was entirely down to the situation. But something about moving from country to country made them adept at the making of friends, it made them attractive to others as potential friends, it even made them adept at falling back into lapsed friendships when they cross paths in some unexpected place. The people who thrive upon moving and making friends and making them quickly and with some level of profundity are a special breed, but I have known a (very) few people who managed this jumping from school to school.

I've nothing like the gregarious people I just described, but I have made more friends by moving than by staying in place.

R74 -- I have several very close friends but I wouldn't dream of asking them to help me move. I might ask them to come by for moral support during the day if they wanted but to ask someone to not only perform manual labor but to also risk breaking or damaging furniture etc, that's just not right -- to me, it's Jay who wasn't a good friend, not the others (although they were pretty damn shifty about it.)

As someone mentioned, if a friend is moving and they're not in great financial shape, I'm happy to contribute toward professional movers -- in fact, for a friend who recently moved and who has no money, I paid half of the fee, and his other friends paid the rest (we're not totally selfless, the guy is an amazing cook and we all expect a number of great dinners...).

Really curious about the ages behind these answers.

When I was under 30 I'd easily say "more than 10." I'd name the guys I went to bars with and 2 or 3 people from college.

Now, well north of 50, I recognize that people naturally drift apart, the person you were at 25 is not the person you eventually become, and a lot of water under the bridge often means a few knives in your back that you weren't expecting.

R85 - exactly - or not just knives - life circumstances. How realistic is it to expect your circle of friends in your 20s to still live in the same place 20 years later? Zero.

Plus people partner up and their partner becomes the #1 - you start to get sidelined, which isn't really inappropriate, it just is what it is.

Maintaining friendships takes a LOT of work. If you think of someone - my advice is just to text or post something on social media - it will make their day and they've probably have thought of you recently too.

The days of making your friends help you with moving are over when you're past 30. Same with expecting your friends to pick you up at the airport, which is best left for close family i.e. your husband. A new friend recently asked me if I'd pick him up at LAX when he was coming home to WeHo from NY. I live in Silver Lake, at the other end of town. I was like, are you nuts?

[quote]A new friend recently asked me if I'd pick him up at LAX when he was coming home to WeHo from NY. I live in Silver Lake, at the other end of town. I was like, are you nuts?

I can understand this response to a 'new' friend as you pointed out. But how about a long-time friend whom you consider a 'close friend' ? Would you still ask him if he was nuts ?

For me to do a favor like this (old or new friend) I wouldn't mind if it was once in a great while (once every fifteen months). But if it became constant every time he traveled, I would definitely say no. That's what Uber is for these days (and before that, cabs).

[quote]Jay learned his lesson - everyone - including your closest gay male friends' - is dependable until you need them. Rely on no one but yourself, and you won't be disappointed. If they want to stop by and pitch in for a while, fine. That's a welcome surprise. But never plan with them and depend on them with a job this big.

As most of the posts above indicate, he should probably learn not to use friends opportunistically. It sounds, based on the description of his apartment, that he has the money for a professional mover. Expecting your friends to help you move makes no more sense than expecting them to do your laundry. In fact, it makes less sense because people don't usually injure themselves doing laundry. Even in my 20s, I would be reluctant to get involved in a friend's move.

To amplify on the post, if being a friend means that you will help with a well-off friend's move when you are in your 50s, I think pretty much all of us are friendless.

I think it's ridiculous to expect a "good friend" or even a family member that is not traveling with you or moving with you to help you move or pick you up at the airport after 50. We are all too old for that and know better.

To the extent I would feel any responsibility for getting the friend from the airport, I would pay for his or her cab. Picking them is a round trip, plus any possible waiting time.

[quote]As most of the posts above indicate, he should probably learn not to use friends opportunistically. It sounds, based on the description of his apartment, that he has the money for a professional mover. Expecting your friends to help you move makes no more sense than expecting them to do your laundry. In fact, it makes less sense because people don't usually injure themselves doing laundry. Even in my 20s, I would be reluctant to get involved in a friend's move.

I think many here are being a bit tough on Jay. I sincerely doubt he asked them - that's not his personality. That's not opportunistic

If his 'close friends' are volunteering to help him pack and load up the truck on a 3 day weekend, why would he refuse their help ? Geez. I'm sure he was happy with their offer. If they didn't mean it when they volunteered, they shouldn't have volunteered - there are way too many people like that in the world. I've heard it myself over the years when someone would say about another person :"I volunteered to help but I didn't think she'd take me up on the offer..." Then why volunteer to help ? If you have second thoughts about it - understandable. But let him know ASAP. Don't ghost the person, don't say you forgot and made other plans the day you're supposed to be there, and don't keep promising 'be there in an hour' when you have no intention of being there at all.

Okay - but that is not how your original post read and it sounds like you are speculating about how the situation arose and how badly the friends mishandled it.

Even if they did offer, I would have found it hard to accept their offer at that age and with his income. There are some things that are just too much. People have often offered things to me I didn't feel comfortable accepting.

[quote]For me to do a favor like this [collecting an old or new friend) at a distant airport] I wouldn't mind if it was once in a great while (once every fifteen months). But if it became constant every time he traveled, I would definitely say no. That's what Uber is for these days (and before that, cabs).

People seem to thinks that friends are people who will do ANYTHING for you.

Sometimes ANYTHING means the equivalent of a face slap, a reality check. Friend to friend.

"NO! Have you lost your fucking mind? Are you bringing me a present of a suitcase filled with gold ingots? Because if not, friend, take a fucking cab or an Uber or an airport shuttle bus like anyone else does. And as your friend, I'll try to forget that you had the nerve to ask me this."

R95 I can top that. We have a "friend" who thinks she is a better friend than she is. Anyway, she always asks us to borrow a car when she is visiting in LA. No, we don't have an extra car laying around. Not to mention, the liability if we did! So, that would mean us doubling up or one of us taking Ubers, which should be her. The answer has been NO but I think she's crazy to ask.

My 3 true friends are a gay man, a straight woman, and a straight man. I call them my fag, my hag, and my stag.

Sometimes people offer things and you're not sure whether to take them are their word or not. In Jay's case, I would have suggested a specific task, but only if they had confirmed that it wasn't an inconvenience. Sometimes a last minute "job" is also an opportunity to say a final farewell. For instance, in Jay's situation, I might have said something like, "it would be super helpful to have another set of eyes on me as I'm packing up and making recommendations about what I should save and pack, and what I should toss. I also have a few cute items that I thought might go nicely in your apartment(s), but of course, I'd like you to have a look at them before they just show up on your doorstep".

R98, no, no, no, no, no. Moving is not an activity friends need to be a part of in any way, certainly after about age 30 as others have said. Moving is between oneself and one’s paid movers, period.

r24 Thanks for the well-told and interesting information; but if you please could you give just a little more data (and sorry if I overlooked anything)? Are you a male or a female? The helpful female friends, did they only come over, talk to you, and say gentle things, or did they do further actions? The male so-called friends, did you propose actual things for them to do, or could they have construed it that you just wanted to have someone there to cry into your beers with? Needless to say, all sorts of people act in all sorts of ways; but by and large women are always available to talk (especially with other women), while by and large men are more comfortable with doing specific focused actions to help out (and are often uncomfortable with the prospect of wide-ranging and open-ended "there, there" type conversations about feelings).

They're all are dead. The pitfalls of being old.

[quote] A new friend recently asked me if I'd pick him up at LAX when he was coming home to WeHo from NY.

I've found Uber to be a very good friend.

R100 I'm male. The three female friend made time for me (individually, not as a group) and as I said, we went to dinner or coffee or breakfast and just talked about what was going on in my life at first since I was having the troubled times (and then I asked what was going on with them, of course) . Sometimes they just nodded their head, sometimes some uplifting advice, when my dad passed from Covid we shared some great memories of him, etc. Overall, it was nice just to be with them for an hour or so and leave knowing someone cared. It was such a welcome relief from "Oh, sorry to hear that. OK, I gotta go now. I'll touch base with you later."

Zero.

[quote] I can understand this response to a 'new' friend as you pointed out. But how about a long-time friend whom you consider a 'close friend' ? Would you still ask him if he was nuts ?

You better believe it. I would never think of inconveniencing another person with an airport pick-up in a monster city like LA, why should they? That would take 3-4 hours our of their day. To me, that's unconscionable unless they're coming home from burying their mother or something or some such tragedy. And then, only this time.

None of your beeswax!

Many centuries ago when I was still in my 20s, a friend asked me to help her and her husband move from one apartment to another. I got there early morning and they were having breakfast and feeding their baby. Nothing was packed, they hadn't rented a truck yet and they were arguing with each other about just about everything. We were at it until midnight or later I can't remember, but I can remember that was the day I thought to myself, NEVER AGAIN. And never again it was.

I've heard similar stories of people soliciting moving help but making no effort to prepare or organize.