The Gilded Age Season 3 Viewing Thread: Part 3

Well, someone's got to break the ice, and it might as well be me. I mean, I'm used to being a hostess, it's part of my husband's work. And it's always difficult when a group of new friends meet together for the first time, to get acquainted. So I'm perfectly prepared to start the ball rolling. I mean, I-I have absolutely no idea what we're doing here. Or what I'm doing here, or what this place is about, but I am determined to enjoy myself. And I'm very intrigued, and, oh my, this soup's delicious, isn't it?

When is Foghorn Leghorn making her return?

Right now, I’m at the Sargent & Paris show in the Met—seeing the real deal reminds you how weak the tv show is.

OP

Thank you for the continuation.

I keep seeing in the previews on YT that Bertha BEGS MARION for some shit?

Is the Season end cliffhanger going to be about Daddy'd Railroad Shares?

R3 how long will it run? I was thinking of traveling to NYC in a few months to see it and see a couple of shows too.

Closes on Sunday. I believe the next stop is Paris.

I'm just bored by Larry and Marian at this point. It seemed inevitable at first, but now it just seems mindless and the worst kind of frauish reasoning. They're young. They're pleasant. They're attractive. They get along fine, and the wedding would be beautiful. But really, so fucking what? There doesn't seem to be anything in particular that would make them want to spend their lives together, forever. And it's going to become completely stupid if Bertha, who doesn't particularly want this marriage, is left to beg Marian to forgive her son (for nothing, really). I mean, I get this show is primarily for fraus, even more than us, but still, aren't the fraus bored by this whole thing?

It would be more interesting if Marian realizes, yeah, this whole thing has been just kind of wrong, but still winds up in business with Larry's father cause of those shares. I think she was supposed to be a more independent woman and a more independent character, somewhat to the aunts' horror, and this could get her back to that.

R8 I am remembering the comments made by the showrunners when Matthew died in DA. They said that they felt they'd exhausted the storyline and there was no more drama to infuse it with. So they killed him. (Also because Dan Stevens wanted out. He didn't feel challenged enough.) The whole "happily ever after" doesn't make for a good story line. So now they injected some drama in Marian and Larry's story. I have to wonder how they resolve it because either one or both of them have to be written out at some point. Think about it. Let's say for purposes of this discussion, Marian and Larry go through this agonizing period towards reconciliation. Then there's a wedding...then what? It's already a struggle to keep things interesting. I suspect, Marian will leave. One way or another.

[quote] They get along fine, and the wedding would be beautiful. But really, so fucking what? There doesn't seem to be anything in particular that would make them want to spend their lives together, forever

It’s because they are cardboard characters. Just generic “nice young people.” No personalities. Just plot vehicles.

Larry is about to butt heads with his father ans Marian is about to become rich again.

All kinds of options there.

Who knows, maybe Marion exits pursued by a bear?

Regarding Marian, they could take a page from “The Forsythe Saga” and have her get involved with someone like an artist or architect, someone society considers distinctly “unsuitable.” Then he jilts her for a married woman, Marian discovers that her worthless railroad shares are anything but, and becomes (like June Forsythe after she’s jilted) a wealthy eccentric bohemian, who backs daring young artists and founds a home for pregnant single women.

You can see threads of some of these ideas in various subplots already, the problem is that when a series is written season to season, when it could end at any time, it’s hard to plot out an interesting long term story for each character, the way you can in a novel. So instead they run from one invented crisis to another.

I rather like the idea of Marian becoming Bertha's daughter in law and butting heads with her.

For a look at the real Gilded Age: in NYC for two more days, or in Paris this fall.

I highly recommend it.

Another week, another record beat.

[quote]Season 3 is now outpacing Season 2 by 25% in viewers, while every episode of the third season has delivered audience growth. The Season 3 finale is scheduled to air Aug. 10.

If we're voting for Marian or Larry to be ousted, I vote for Marian.

Preferably by a flying leg o' mutton sleeve!

They've had a wedding, so they won't need one for awhile. If they're going to follow soap opera conventions, there should be arrival of mysterious (and possibly evil) relative---perhaps even an evil twin, someone should develop amnesia, and a murder trial (John Adams' death would be handy).

I still can't believe Merritt Wever was only in it for one episode. Bring her back!

Love it r18. In fact, how about if there's a secret sister, the one Ada and Agnes never discuss, and she's been living in the attic all this time.

And then one day ... she comes downstairs! (or maybe, she's been sneaking out, like the murderous bitch she is, killing random homos in the street with her weird little carriage.)

[quote]Who knows, maybe Marion exits pursued by a bear?

Thanks for the laugh.

You can be sure I'll be back in S4 to stir some shit!

Maybe Marian should get a job as a prostitute at the Haymarket.

Marian is not leaving, R9. The show is basically told from her point of view.

r24, I think that was the notion in S1 but is no longer true. Marian's role seems quite diminished to me this season....though maybe with the last episode that will change.

Gotta say, even though I'm not a big Cynthia Nixon fan, her two big scenes last week, telling off the phony medium and informing AC Jack it's time to move on, were better acted AND WRITTEN than anything they've ever done before on the series. The Jack scene in particular was just so real and tender and intelligent and made us understand something more of the upstairs/downstairs relationship that the series had never before nailed. I wonder who wrote it.

So is Marian Edith or Lady Mary?????

Marian = Mary

Gladys = Edith

r25 I agree, those two scenes were pure magic and honestly not something I expect to see when I tune into this show.

I know people mostly didn't enjoy the charlatan arc and were glad it ended abruptly, but Cynthia acted the shit out of all those scenes.

I wholeheartedly agree R25. Marian was the original star and the bridge between the old money and new money. Now she’s just an annoying background character that no one cares about.

Bertha and Agnes are the true stars.

Marian could be what Edith really should've been, and it would actually right a wrong. They made the stupid decision to marry Edith off in the same dull way that fraus think is the happiest ending possible. It was stupid and useless, and having Marian have a stupid, useless marriage would have the same effect.

If on the other hand they decide, no, Marian is actually going to go in a different direction, that could actually be a lot better, for the character but also for the show.

Interestingly, two of the major characters in TGA Season 3 (Cynthia Nixon and Audra Macdonald) are giving terrific performances, while in the very same year, they are bombing in other projects (Cynthia = And Just Like That, Audra = Gypsy). It may be the writing, or more likely, the direction, but it's easy to see that without these two strong elements, a performance can go off the rails.

Agnes has even less to do than Marian so I think some of you old bitties are just engaging in your usual elderly diva worship.

Marian doesn’t have to be the star of the show for the show to be told from her point of view. She is literally the narrator of the show. The show is not told from Bertha’s point of view. Nor is it told from Agnes’ point of view.

Marian is the only character with a a window into all of the worlds explored her. She is the common thread. She isn’t leaving.

IMO Agnes has devolved to being not much more than comic relief.

Right now, Agnes is little more than the Countess Dowager for this show.

Except without all the juicy lines I ad-libbed.

*biddy

Agnes has never had a plot line about her and has become a completely unnecessary character. Fellowes is afraid to make her the conservative bigot that kind of woman would have been in historical reality. Just my opinion but having a character like Agnes interact as she does with Peggy, as an equal, sweet as it may be, just goes too far from NY society life in the 1880s. I do wonder if the series had been conceived and produced by an American, it would have taken this route.

In British historical TV now there's the mixing of people of all colors but those series don't pretend to be about class and race structure. Unless, of course, it's Bridgerton which is taken as a fantasy.

R37 never met JP Morgan’s personal librarian and chief acquisition agent.

Morgan's librarian Belle da Costa Greene was a Black woman who famously passed as white. And Morgan didn't hire her until 1905, 21 years after The Gilded Age is set. I suspect she also didn't hang out at JP Morgan's home as Peggy does at Agnes' brownstone.

Personally I think there are too many wimmin in GA. Marian, Agnes, Ada, Bertha, Gladys, Gladys sister-iin-law, Lady Sarah, Lina Astor, Mrs. Fane, Mrs. Fish, Mrs. Winterton, the downstairs people,, at the Van Rijns and the downstairs people at the Russells. And then there's Peggy, her mother, and Felicia Rashad's character. Then they kill off gratuitously, the one Gay man who cared about Oscar, now the only Gay man among the first tier of actors. Larry Russell, George Russell, and the interchangeable cast of men who are not regulars, Peggy's father and her doctor love, and her former employer are not critical to the storylines. They have to write out a woman...or two...or three. SOMEONE HAS TO DIE!!!!

R40, maybe Julian can do a Moldavian Massacre

I read "The Glitter and the Gold," Consuelo Vanderbilt Balsan's memoir. The Kindle version is on Amazon for $15.99.) Her writing is better than expected from a key player of that era. I definitely recommend it as a sidepiece to "The Gilded Age," as it's obvious the screenwriter used it as a primary reference tool. There are real life women with the names "Bertha," "Gladys" and "Russell" (though not of those portrayed in the show) and Consuelo doesn't spare her aggressive and dictatorial mother Alva, while lionizing her beloved father W.K Vanderbilt Pulled from her journals, Consuelo's sophisticated and unpretentious style is a real page-turner as she details the period during which she lived in glowing and concise terms, though there is little reflection on her marriages - the first one to the Duke of Marlborough and the second and last to the handsome and (less) wealthy textile heir Jacques Balsan. She was the most beautiful of the "Dollar Heiresses" and the book tracks her life from the Industrial Age to the the beginning of the Second World War.

I read "The Glitter and the Gold," Consuelo Vanderbilt Balsan's memoir. The Kindle version is on Amazon for $15.99.) Her writing is better than expected from a key player of that era. I definitely recommend it as a sidepiece to "The Gilded Age," as it's obvious the screenwriter used it as a primary reference tool. There are real life women with the names "Bertha," "Gladys" and "Russell" (though not of those portrayed in the show) and Consuelo doesn't spare her aggressive and dictatorial mother Alva, while lionizing her beloved father W.K Vanderbilt Pulled from her journals, Consuelo's sophisticated and unpretentious style is a real page-turner as she details the period during which she lived in glowing and concise terms, though there is little reflection on her marriages - the first one to the Duke of Marlborough and the second and last to the handsome and (less) wealthy textile heir Jacques Balsan. She was the most beautiful of the "Dollar Heiresses" and the book tracks her life from the Industrial Age to the the beginning of the Second World War.

The Industrial Age started many moons before she was ever conceived of.

But R44 I was only off by about a hundred years!

[quote]Fellowes is afraid to make her the conservative bigot that kind of woman would have been in historical reality.

As opposed to the Episcopal Abolitionist, she was? Only the South had Slave Owning Jesus churches. Southern Baptists, Southern Methodists, Southern Presbyterian and those Church of Christ poor churches for Snake Handlers and Pentecostals.

Rich Anglicans were the beginnings of churches that believed that freed slaves had souls.

There was no fear in making Agnes a rich, abolitionist.

What was interesting is that she is not a SEGREGATIONIST.

Yeah I don’t understand this insistence that ALL northern white women in that time period were all conservative bigots on race.

I say de facto, you say de jure.

R46: She doesn't want any non-rich people of any color on her block other than servants. She's not a prohibitionist which would suggest she wasn't obsessed about immigrants or Catholics the way that many in her class were.

[quote] Some people just have specialized knowledge that you or I don’t [R593]. Maybe the poster works in costume design for a living. Or is an antique dealer who specializes in clothes. Personally I find it fascinating.

Duh, elderlez. What's funny is dropping such knowledge into a DL thread with no context or explanation. It's not a bad thing, it's fascinating, but funny with no context.

Everyone on DL is some ¥ expert ¥

It’s in the homo genome LOL

I am taking to my bed until Sunday's episode.

[quote] She's not a prohibitionist which would suggest she wasn't obsessed about immigrants or Catholics the way that many in her class were.

Or bitch won't give up her gin, more like! Oh well, I tried to save this house from perdition.

Is this the week Leslie “hucka the bejeepers” Uggams shows up??

R54, yes, it is, and I’m sure she will deliver a patter song from The Pirates of Penzance with the same clarity and precision like she did with “June Is Busting Out All Over.”

R55, well June's on Ozempic now and so far she lost 30 pounds. So Leslie can fuck off.

While I think there's a lot to criticize about this show, the Oscar character has turned into a more nuanced, interesting guy than expected. On the face of it, he just seems like your average spoiled, clueless douche, but his downfall and the ways he has (or hasn't) coped makes it one of the more interesting storylines.

Maybe John Adams will leave all his money to Oscar.

I think there's been a missed opportunity on this series not featuring any characters who are servants to the wealthy Black characters. Now, there's some potential for some rare complex story-telling.

Not that the series needs still more characters, but I just wish that had been an aspect from the beginning instead of now introducing more wealthy Blacks like those played by Phylicia Rashad and Leslie Uggams.

"complex storytelling"?!?!?!?

In a Julian Fellowes show??!?!?!?

Oh, my sides....

Tonight's episode is the start of the end for Nathan Lane's character. Ward McAllister was pretty much entirely ostracized from society after publishing "Society as I Have Found It" in real life (which the trailer for tonight has shown will come out in tonight's episode), although in actuality it did not come out until 1890, which was after Mrs. Astor moved uptown and built her famous ballroom which would only hold 400 comfortably (McAllister and Mrs. Astor together drew up the list of the 400 who would be invited to big events there, which everyone longed to be on).

R61: WE can only hope. He's annoying character with all that stereotypical Southern bullshit.

Well, SOME of us/WE love our Foghorn Gayhorn!!!!!

One of the few real delights of this clunky show!

10 minutes in. Where is the commentary?

Anybody live streaming?

Quarter over, anu updates?

Oscar's breakdown and the reactions of his family was so fucking sad and tragic. And Gladys actually seems happy with the Duke!

I think Agnes suspects something about Oscar and John. And the Streepling definitely knows. Aida is too oblivious.

Why would Foghorn Leghorn write a book about these people and expect nothing to change.

It was all there on Baranski's face. I think Aida gets it, too.

I’d like a butler named Hefty

r60, I sad: ".....some potential for some rare complex story-telling...."

I think we agree.

We get to know the white people's servants. Why don't we get to know the Black people's servants? Which might even break through this series' cliches and predictability.

I told you Agnes was wise enough to realize what was really going on with Oscar. She just chose to ignore it like Hyacinth did with Sheridan.

Jack is back!!!!

Cynthia Nixon reunited with Lisa Gay Hamilton who played her upstairs neighbor on SATC.

Whoa!

I'm assuming George lives since Bertha has her ball.

[quote] Why would Foghorn Leghorn write a book about these people and expect nothing to change.

That's exactly what happened in real life. Ward McAllister really did write a book called "Society as I Have Found It" and was excommunicated from high society as a result.

Good episode. Poor Peggy. She doesn’t stand a chance against the snobby and gossipy Phylicia Rashad.

And poor Mr. Russell. I assume Clay is behind it?

I’m glad they efficiently dispatched the Clock Twink buying a house and Marian finding out Larry was innocent in one scene.

I wish I could say the same about the leaking maid storyline which was way too many scenes and completely ho hum. Even Bertha was bored by it.

Not sure how they pull the ball off but I never underestimate Big Bertha.

I don't think there was one moment tonight that rang true. It's all such badly written afternoon soap opera.

Actually, r80, the assassination attempt against George Russell was much like that against the industrialist Henry Clay Frick in his office in downtown Pittsburgh in 1892 by the anarchist Alexander Berkman.

HBO would be wise not to kill off George, people are still pissed they did that to Joel.

And yet R80 you watch it every week.

R83 has never heard of the term, "hate watch".

TGA manages to be a show that you can love to hate.

Though, there are times it's just a show you hate and you're tempted to stop. Fortunately, Uncle Julian manages to write a decent episode once or twice a year that manages to pull us back in.

While there are those who felt the same way about Downstairs Abbey, I managed to watch the first season but then stopped because it was just boring and stupid.

Also boring...people who make the same lazy/boring comment on EVERY thread who think they're being oh so clever.

No. They're not. Just boring and redundant.

I saw a trailer for a new HBO series coming in September, Task with Mark Ruffalo. I think he's a good actor, I'll give it a whirl.

Nixon was especially good tonite. The old maid scene was very touching. Although I'm surprised she didn't push the writers for a scene where Agnes tells Oscar she's gay, too!

I'm paralyzed. They absolutely cannot kill George!

Is Russell more of a Gould or a Frick. Make up your mind, Julian.

It was very convenient for John Adams to have sister in whom he confided every last thing. That moved things along efficiently.

Methinks Marian’s crying out “I’ll do anything for you!” In the trailer was to Larry and it concerns what she thought were worthless railroad stocks.

I've noticed in episode 6, when Baranski was filmed in bed with her long-haired wig, she's looking more and more like Carly Simon as she gets older -especially in this series.

Who got shot right before George? I looked away at something and didn't catch it. Was it the butler?

R93. I think it was his secretary or some other office underling.

Seventy years after Ward MCAlister, Truman Capote does the same thing to his "swans"? Didn't that silly little queen read history?

OK, this is weird and kind of funny. I'm watching the show on HBO Max, and it's in spanish. I tried changing the dubbing to english but it stays in spanish. I had to change the language to "English with Audio Description." Is this happening to anyone else?

I'm with R91.

R96 Yes!!!! It happened to us, too!!!

We couldn't get rid of the damn audio description even though we clicked it to off!!!

Yeah, what if Marian’s “worthless” railroad bonds blow up into the biggest power move of the season? Picture this. Those bonds turn out to cover prime land George Russell desperately needs. She holds the cards, not George.

Now add Larry into the mix. He’s grown up fast—he’s sharp, fair, and he’s not afraid to ask “What’s in it for me?” I’m betting he sees Marian’s upside and quietly guides her toward leasing the land instead of selling it cheap. That means steady income, real influence, and zero need for Bertha’s approval.

Imagine Marian becoming the new social magnet. People flock to her because she’s genuine. She didn’t claw her way up. She just stayed true to herself. Meanwhile Bertha loses her grip. Agnes has to swallow her pride. And the whole “old moneys. new money” game gets flipped on its head.

R96, R98 - It's some kind of streaming mishap that's specific to GA, not any of the other programming on Max. Change the language to Latin American Spanish. It'll start playing in English again.

Larry made $300k off the Alarm Clock Jack deal...he has his own money already.

Everybody wants those railroad bonds to be a plot point but...is Uncle Julian really clever enough to bring that back as an actual plot point?

If he does, it's because he visits here or has minions who do.

Incorrect, R100.

I don’t live in GA, & it happened to me as well.

I attempted to switch it to Spanish, in the settings, & it still did not work.

R102 "GA" refers to "Gilded Age" not George.

Or, so I assume.

GEORGIA!!!!

Yes, my recap was in English, but then the show was dubbed in Spanish. I also figured out that I could switch it to Spanish. I live in Valdosta, Georgia.

I’m glad I wasn’t the only one with the Spanish glitch! I was going crazy.

Just a couple more thoughts about the previous episode, before I switch gears to the latest one.

I loved the parallel of Sarah and Rashad, two women from two totally different backgrounds across the ocean, using pretty much the same talking point against women's suffrage. Also, Bertha leaning in slightly at dinner to try and hear the fallout from Gladys telling off Sarah was everything.

And this closing shot of Gladys finally in her own (blossoming) garments again, standing as a diving line between her husband and Sarah. Seconds before that, Sarah was actually looking away, which was even more poignant.

*dividing line

Did you see Agnes' moment of clarity towards the end of Oscar's breakdown when she clocks what's going on? Great acting by Baranski.

That whole scene was amazing, I'm surprised there was just one additional scene with Marian in his room later on and then they dropped it. Guess there wasn't enough time, what with all the other insanity going on.

The point is, the whole family now knows Oscars double life.

Prediction, Agnes pushes him to marry and provide a van R heir.

Prediction: Agnes runs for President ! Move over Hillary and Kamala !

The Spanish thing was happening in NY too. Maddening, or as my tv would say, enloquecedor.

Not just GA. I'm in Houston and had to watch it with audio description. I heard later that if you switched to Spanish Latin America you got English.

I can’t believe Uncle Julian did the tired ‘bury your gays’ trope.

So many things running through Agnes' head at once upon realising her only son was [italic]that,[/italic] i.e. any parent's worst nightmare. No doubt she immediately started thinking where she went wrong in his upbringing and what she might have done in the past to deserve such cruel fate. Maybe the priest could help, probably also ran through her mind. No grandchildren, that much is certain by now.

All in all, what a disaster for poor old Agnes.

Phylicia Rashad is fun to watch here. The cuntier she gets, the more her eyes light up.

That lady who gave her the Peggy goss was cunty as well, living for every moment of that revelation. Had the Mona Lisa smile at the very end as well, after Rashad had already stormed off. Loved her little rhodochrosite neck broach.

*brooch!

^That was no lady. That was Uggams!

I’m in AJLT, and we had no Spanish issues.

Leslie posted about it on Facebook last night!

When Armstrong was reading Ward's book, she said there was something in it about Oscar that she didn't understand. That could have been either the gay part or him getting scammed.

Loved seeing Lane act opposite Coon, but why wasn't it a bigger deal when Bertha came over to the Van Rhijns? Wasn't that a whole plot for two seasons? Guess we're past that now.

Livingston Manor and the date 1750 were mentioned twice, both times quite awkwardly. Groundwork for the next season?

Very unnatural not to ask for the details on what she “didn’t understand” about Oscar.

Marion’s father was not a railroad man. He was known for marrying beneath his class and squandering his inheritance. While it’s possible that the “worthless” railroad stock might turn out to have some value, it is very unlikely to be of decisive importance to Russell.

R122. Looks like Mrs Astor has accepted Bertha so everyone else will follow.

The question of Bertha’s place in society has been long settled. Now she is hosting Mrs Astor’s ball, has founded the Metropolitan Opera and is the mother of a Duchess.

When Larry was moping around about Marian I thought he should immediately go over to Alarm Clock Jack's new house and fuck him.

They would both feel better.

I have a feeling they're going to leave us with a whopper of a cliffhanger.

The weirdest scene last night was when Bertha invited Ward McAllister to her house simply to tell him she was going to host the final ball of the Newport season and allow divorced women to attend, but she was not going to let him attend. Why would she have told him about letting divorced women in, then? The writers were just having her deliver plot exposition for no reason.

I wonder if it was just to deliver the “cruelest” insult; to be more socially unacceptable than a divorced woman had to have an especial sting.

I assume Agnes was primed for her realization about Oscar by the coded insinuations in the McCallister book that she had just read. Has anyone read the real book? Are there gay references in it? I don’t think Agnes cares about the fact that Oscar is gay. I think she’s worried about scandal and realizing that other people are going to put two and two together because of the book.

Oscar will need to turn the property over to his mother who will donate it to Ms. Foster of the historical society and then she’ll be a patron again.

What would someone like Agnes call us back then? Perverts, inverts, deviants, sodomites? "Homosexual" only appeared in German print for the first time 14 years earlier, so I doubt it made it to America yet.

I fear for Oscar if Agnes ever gets angry with him and lets one of those out, it's going to be so hurtful. I kinda wanna see it, though.

Lord Douglas, of course!

Ohh, foreshadowing! As they taught us in 9th grade…🫣

[quote] I assume Agnes was primed for her realization about Oscar by the coded insinuations in the McCallister book that she had just read. Has anyone read the real book? Are there gay references in it?

There's actually very little gossip about particular people in the real Ward McAllister book, despite what the show said. Most of it is innocuous and ridiculously fussy: all about the proper way to chill wine and what his favorite quadrilles played at balls are. he was much mocked in the book reviews for his persnicketiness about such trivial things.

What he actually got in trouble for was explaining in what chapter what the coasts of everything in high society were--you weren't ever supposed to talk publicly about the prices of things if you were from that caste.

Money, money!

The Weimar Germans were more upfront.

[quote] What would someone like Agnes call us back then? Perverts, inverts, deviants, sodomites? "Homosexual" only appeared in German print for the first time 14 years earlier, so I doubt it made it to America yet.

It really didn't have a term as an identity category in popular discourse until the Oscar Wilde trials several years later. You would be more likely called an Unspeakable or a sodomite. In medical discourse you'd be more likely called a Uranian--but even there they would talk more about the act itself ("Uranian love") rather than as an identity category.

[quote] The weirdest scene last night was when Bertha invited Ward McAllister to her house simply to tell him she was going to host the final ball of the Newport season and allow divorced women to attend, but she was not going to let him attend.

It was to let Nathan Lane know that his time is up.

He had to get back to Cathedral City….

Confirmed bachelor proceed and followed by an extra second pause and said ditto voce

EW: The moment is the first time we've seen Oscar even hint at his sexuality in his mother's presence, acknowledging the charade they both participate in to keep up appearances. As he escapes to his rooms upstairs, the camera lingers on Agnes' face, a thoughtful and pensive look that suggests she knows exactly what he means.

"She finally has to admit something that she never wanted to even consider because it's so taboo," Baranski tells Entertainment Weekly. "It would be so horrifying to her. And yet, when he plays out that scene and goes up the stairs a broken man, it's heartbreaking for me to realize that he can't speak to me about it."

"She's so far from her own child in terms of understanding and empathizing," Baranski continues. "It is just the horror of it — he has lived with this probably his whole life, and I can never speak to him about it."

"There were just many emotions, but a profound sense of sadness that it cannot be spoken of," she reflects. "And we don't speak of it when he leaves. We don't even lift our eyes. I remember putting a letter back in an envelope. Marian goes back to sewing."

Drama!

IRL, families saw their sons & brothers go about their business. Just because it didn’t have a noun doesn’t mean it wasn’t fappening.

The Ward McAllister book is freely available, if you can stand it. And honestly I think it will be interesting to some, if you really, really want to know about fashions and decor and foods and wines of the late 19th century high society. And some people do, not being snarky, it's an interest.

I was bouncing around, and I'm bored and weirdly fascinated by how obsessive he is about shit. But that of course is why he became the person he was, and the role he had. I agree there's no real scandal, like none, at least that I've found. The anecdotes are mostly people being pompous (though Ward of course doesn't get that), or kind of assholes, or sometimes a little clever, but nothing anybody could really be scandalized about.

I agree with r134 the scandal was admitting how much money people were spending on frivolous bullshit, and it was all very easy to satirize. As a group, they really do come across as fools in this book, but inadvertently. I do hope everyone involved with making The Gilded Age read it, because it really does have a ton of little details and things they should know, and also does have a whole attitude that an influential segment of that society would have about how to do things.

[quote]It was to let Nathan Lane know that his time is up.

She knew he already knew quite well. Earlier in the episode Bertha had been to the meeting at Ada's and Agnes's house where they all decided they were going to permanently freeze him out.

I fear for Oscar if Agnes ever gets angry with him and lets one of those out, it's going to be so hurtful. I kinda wanna see it, though.

Agnes wouldn't do that. She's not a monster.

Christine Baranski was great last night silently reacting to Oscar's meltdown. She now has admitted to herself that he was in love with John Adams, and that unlike Marian she greatly disapproves of it, but she also showed you she immediately realized she was not going to risk pushing things any further.

In Maurice, the Cambridge tutor advises his students reading Plato to “omit a reference to the unspeakable vice of the Greeks”

Blake Ritson was very good in this episode

I thought that the scene of Oscar’s breakdown was one of the strongest of the series so far, well written and excellently acted, especially by the three women, who managed in their separate ways to get across the idea that they knew exactly what his outburst meant and then immediately recalibrated to smooth it over, explain it away and put it out of mind. Of course Agnes can’t do that, this is yet another blow to her view of the world. Oscar is lucky he doesn’t have the sort of mother and aunt who would immediately consult a doctor and lawyer to have him declared imcompetent and locked away somewhere.

I’m keen to see what sort of life Clock Twink will make for himself. Thought their choice of a new home for him was right on — Victorian luxe indoors to our eyes, but a fairly narrow rowhouse on a street of upper middle class homes. I bet he could rent that building for a few thousand a year, and hire a butler and maid/cook for little money too. But what kind of society will he try to enter? Lots of potential for next season.

As handsome as the good doctor is, Peggy never had a chance against his dragon of a mother, and he doesn’t strike me as enough of a renegade to ‘forgive’ her and marry her come what may. She’s better off though she may not think so. The question is whether the editor will separate and/ or divorce his wife for her. Is she enough of a renegade to marry him when her mother and father would object to that as strongly as the doctor’s mother has objected to Peggy?

I like Marian and Larry as a couple, they’re attractive and grounded and intelligent. Assuming they marry next season will they spearhead a new younger, racier generation of NY bluebloods in society? It’s an idea with possibilities.

Mr. Fortune was a creep trying to go with her to Philadelphia when she didn’t want him to. Peggy deserves better.

[quote] The question is whether the editor will separate and/ or divorce his wife for her.

I doubt it. T. Thomas Fortune was an actual historical figure, and never divorced his wife after they married in 1878.

R130 Why would Oscar have to turn over the Livingston Manor house to Agnes?

Peggy with a crusading editor would be more interesting than Peggy with some tiresome Society Doctor and tiresome Society family that she's "supposed" to be with.

Similarly, Marian and Larry are a crashing bore together. Both of them should find somebody more interesting rather than just mindlessly falling into some dullwitted marriage that has been plotted out for them.

[quote] [R130] Why would Oscar have to turn over the Livingston Manor house to Agnes?

My guess is he'll do that to square accounts with his mother, since he lost her entire fortune when he was scammed.

I know Oscar feels guilty, of course, but really Agnes is not exactly suffering. She's rich people "poor," living in the same big mansion she's always lived in waited on by the same servants. I hope Oscar doesn't feel the need to give her some other house that she probably doesn't even want.

I have no idea exactly where inside her Nixon reached to deliver that spinster talk scene with Marian, but she needs to keep reaching there. Unreal, one of the best actors on this show somehow.

The spy thing was so predictable and a waste of time.

R155 Uh, Cynthia Nixon is a terrific actress. Always has been. She's been endlessly snarked on, here at DL, mainly for her wife and her politics and some of her public utterances but as an actress, she really is the real deal.

TGA and Uncle Julian, fucked up by trying to include too many servants and I'm especially looking at the Russell servants.

They aren't needed as major characters. The only servants they should have developed as any kind of character should have been the van Rijn household which is really the center story for the show.

For the Russells, I would have had George's valet and Bertha's ladies maid developed as being useful minor support and the butler but there was ZERO need to ever really have much to do with cooks and housekeepers. They should have been very minor day players we might see a couple times a season, and briefly.

One funny thing last night when the Scooby Doo Servants were confronting Frenchie the Maid was one of them gasping, "you did this for a mere $40?!?!?"

Uh, $40 was a LOT of money in 1884. And, since she'd been leaking her tittle tattle for months, the Frenchie Maid must have quite a lot of money put away. No one of that class would poo poo $40.

R157, and been so since childhood.

R156. Absolutely. What purpose did it serve? And it was so quickly solved.... They have enough plots going on, they do not need to keep adding bs stories.

It was the French maid?!

Boy, was I schooled!

I thought the gasp was how well it paid. I thought the mere part was rehearsed, but they were expecting a lower amount and the $40 had to be wrangled in.

R154, it’s not about the money per se. it’s about the standing. If Agnes can’t be a patron representing an historic family, she’s no one of importance in her society. But Oscar giving her the cottage to donate doesn’t just pay her back and restore his standing, it removes the suspicions about why HE has the cottage. I’m sure John Adams expected to be older when he died and then, as now, old people are ignored. But he died young so it’ll be the topic of a lot of gossip.

Was the gunman hired by Clay? An anarchist like in the Frick case? Or hired by Bertha, glad that her financial problems have been solved and preferring certain widowhood to possible divorce?

Gladys: The first LI Lolita

Bang, bang!

According to a US inflation calculator, $40 in 1884 equates to around $1300 today. Buying power and real income was probably stronger then too, so that money could go far.

R162, I think that back then two people from the same social class could get away with being “very close friends.”

Within the universe of the show it was scandalous enough that John Adams didn’t list Oscar in his will and instead left it to his sister to give to Oscar.

When they call John's cottage a cottage, is it a cottage like all the houses in Newport are cottages, grand fucking Mansions?

[quote] When they call John's cottage a cottage, is it a cottage like all the houses in Newport are cottages, grand fucking Mansions?

Probably not, at least not on that scale. The biggest and most stately Newport mansions (The Breakers, Rough Point, Ochre Point, Seaview Terrace) were on a ridiculously large scale because the actual new money families of the Gilded Age (the Vanderbilts, the Goelets, the Bradleys) were trying to outdo one another. They wouldn't have gone to somewhere like Livingston Manor which by then was not as fashionable.

Moreover, we've been told the show's John Adams is from the old Boston Brahmin family which also gave us the US presidents John Adams and John Quincy Adams. They were not new money, and so would not have wanted to live on that kind of ostentatious scale.

It's probably much, much larger than what you or I would ever call a cottage, but the fictional Bertha Russell or the real Alva Vanderbilt would likely think it was small.

Thank you r168. Illustrative.

Oh, I think the woman who played John's sister and the sceene she was in was another great moment in acting.

How much more could she have conveyed to Oscar that everyone in the family knew about John, and she was particularly fond of her brother, to the point that she was his in-family confidant and knew everything.

Agnes needs to have a talk with Nancy Adams Bell (Kate Baldwin).

She made me cry. She deserves an Emmy for guest artist.

r170, I agree Kate Baldwin was exvellent.

I keep hoping they'll bring in another excellent stage actress, Marin Ireland, for one of these parts. She played a one-shot small but crucial role in Feud: Capote vs. the Swans as the publisher Katherine Graham, Capote's guest of honor for his famous Black and White Ball, and she was the best thing in the whole miniseries, even though she appeared for only about two minutes.

Dene Benton posted a sweet comment on social about how they start every season thinking it will be the last and how thrilled everyone is that the current season is such a success and they've been renewed. I'm glad HBO gave it a chance and now it's paid off. Emmys for everybody!

And a special canine Emmy for Pumpkin.

r172 I recall creating the very first thread about this show on DL back in 2015 when Fellowes first announced his plans because it's my favourite period of American history, but there wasn't much interest in it. Even later in 2020 when it started production, the overall sentiment was that it would flop. This comment under an older Deadline article basically sums it up:

[quote]Good luck getting anyone under 90 to watch that.

And it's true it was briefly touch-and-go there after the first season and those early DL threads were brutally critical as well, but I'm so glad it has found its audience and is now thriving. The haters have moved on to something else, as they usually do.

Sorry, feeling a bit nostalgic after all the good news about the ratings, and the official subreddit I also helped set up gaining 10k members in like a week. There really is something to the rumour that the gay community's embrace of it made a difference back when its renewal looked bleak. Carry on!

Favorite!

It wasn’t exactly a high point in US History—1877-1910 left much to be desired.

Finale (Episode 8) Trailer.

It’s heartening that Clock Twink has a nice home. Excellent work by whoever built that set. He didn’t even look around much, he just trusted Marian.

And it looks like Clock Twink's got enough china, crockery and tchotchkes in that house to lure in a nice wife.

Some good things in this episode but also some really bad, namely the French maid as spy nothingburger.

But also all the lame drama of Marian breaking off her engagement to Larry based on utter hearsay when she's a smart liberal girl who empathizes with homosexuals. And she's been shown to be intimately close with AC Jack - who waited so long (how many months was Larry's trek to Arizona and back?) to inform her that nothing happened at the house of ill repute.

I doubt it was a "built" set; it's probably an actual historic house.

I know much of the van Rijn house is a built set and the Russell grand entrance hall.

Yes, wonderful seeing Kate Baldwin in that brilliant cameo as John Adams' sister. She had such a period look about her and was so affecting in her scene. I hope they find a way to bring her back.

I expect we'll see more and even bigger Broadway stars next season. How much do you wanna bet they bring in Bernadette Peters to play Lily Langtry?

Who played the woman trying to strongarm Agnes at the reception? She looked like a character actress from a century ago.

Lily Langtry wasn't 80 in the 1880s....

Marceline Hugot. Wonderful character actress

I was hoping Jack would have moved into a nice boarding house with Bernadette and the LuPone as the battling sisters who ran it.

Nathan Lane was funny in his Q & A with Vulture about the latest episode. He starts out by saying ‘Just my luck, I get written out when the show’s become a hit!’ And when he’s asked what it’s like to be hated (as his character) by some of the leading theatrical actresses of our day, he quips, ‘So what else is new?’

[quote] It’s heartening that Clock Twink has a nice home. Excellent work by whoever built that set. He didn’t even look around much, he just trusted Marian.

That house looked tired and dusty.

R187 I'm sure Jack will remove all that old bric a brac and paint all the walls grey, add pinspot lighting and some nice laminate flooring and smarten up the whole place for you!

R188, some track lighting would do. 💅🏼

Are you a Mark, Rick, or Steve, r189?

I loved the scene when Oscar angrily exploded at his family, a very rare moment of genuinely uncontrolled emotion in Julian Fellowes' world.

Chances are Jack’s house belonged to someone old. A house full of dead old guy’s stuff that nobody wants.

Ew.

Wait, does Nathan read DL? He mentioned Ahler as Clock Twink in his Vulture interview! Is that from some place else? Anyway, hi Nathan!

How many of you here have had their curiosity ignited, or their passion for history, of all sorts, reignited as a result of this show?

That’s the wonderful thing about series or film’s depicting period pieces, in they may spark an acquaintance or reacquainting with learning.

I had only superficially been knowledgeable about the tycoons of the 1800s in America, however, due to this series, I’ve delved deep into historical facts, in order to know more about how our country came to be.

Clock Twink’s new house is an interior from a house in Troy/Albany. R180 is right. They used a lot of Troy last night. The only exterior “set” is the street between the two main houses that was built on the old Empire Boardwalk set.

[quote]I expect we'll see more and even bigger Broadway stars next season. How much do you wanna bet they bring in Bernadette Peters to play Lily Langtry?

[quote]Lily Langtry wasn't 80 in the 1880s....

Never fear! I can step in for Bernadette.

No, R195. The TGA exterior 61st Street set is out in Old Bethpage on Long Island. The Boardwalk Empire set was built in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. I know this because I’ve worked on both.

Me, r194! I’ve been reading about old mansions and families and heiresses. I tried reading the McCallister book, but I couldn’t do it.

I read Matthew Josephson’s The Robber Barons when I was in high school. The industrialist heroes of the Gilded Age are very interesting.

Oh sorry, R197, an actor on the show told me it was the same location! Sorry!

Kathy Geiss!

“Clock Twink” migrated to DL from Louisa Jacobson’s Instagram. He was originally known here as Alarm Clock Jack.

[quote] The industrialist heroes of the Gilded Age are very interesting.

"Heroes"?

There's a reason why they were called robber barons...

The phrase Gilded Age is biting sarcasm, not hero worship

R194 YES! I go down Wikipedia rabbit holes during and after each episode. It's very fascinating.