Holy Crap! Europe is overloaded with tourists!

You say Europe and then speak about Italy. Why not say ITALY is overloaded with tourists?

Europe is a continent.

Going to Europe during the summer months is amateurish.

EUROPE IS A CONTINENT.

Because he didn’t just name Italian cities, r1. Barcelona is in Spain and Paris is in France —which are both in Europe.

The amount of money that tourism brings to Italy must be astronomical. Tourists are EVERYWHERE in Italy. It's not just a few cities, it's really just about every city, the towns, the coasts, the islands.

He’s naming the cities that always attract ridiculous amounts of tourists. Is he new to earth?

PS all those cities are Mediterranean. Funny how people flock to those and not the Anglo parts lmao

I’ve been to Europe often throughout my life. I’ve never seen as many tourists as I’ve seen post-pandemic.

It’s nuts how everything is just jammed with tourists.

[Quote] You say Europe and then speak about Italy. Why not say ITALY is overloaded with tourists? Europe is a continent.

You seem to have a reading comprehension problem

I hear Romania is the new “must see” place

R9 again. Non-Anglo

Honestly, European cities just run together. With globalization, they all look alike. The magic is gone.

How are Asian cities doing? I want to try Africa but haven’t a clue where to start

[Quote] again. Non-Anglo

What else is “Anglo” except for Great Britain?

R11 that’s actually very false. Spoken like the uneducated person you are.

[Quote] EUROPE IS A CONTINENT.

Thanks, Capt Obvious!

R12 retarded question. Every city you named is from Mediterranean land. None from Anglo or Scandinavian.

Go in November. The weather is cooler and more condusive to exploring and fewer other tourists. But there is no time in Europe when tourists aren't a hindrance.

Just landed in Helsinki. Huge crowd at the airport and huge line at my hotel check-in. Visiting several Scandinavian cities, so we shall see.

[Quote] retarded question. Every city you named is from Mediterranean land. None from Anglo or Scandinavian.

What’s wrong with that? They are European cities. I’m sorry I havent been to every European city.

What I do know is that, compared to my previous travels, I’m seeing bigger tourist crowds in the cities I been to.

If I mention London and Oslo, will you suddenly say “you didn’t go to Greece so your insight is wrong!”

I do want to see the Baltic cities but do I really need to see another palace, church, garden, blah blah blah?

How about Starbucks, KFC, and McDonalds?

R18 nothing wrong with it but they aren’t the same as places like Poland and Scotland.

The typical spots are always overloaded. Paris, Rome, Venice, London (for the Yanks who can’t handle a foreign language at all), and the castle parts of Bavaria. People go where they can Instagram their face next to a landmark. You see it every summer. Hordes of fannypack Yanks shouting in English about the train to the Eiffel Tower, or how much something costs in “real money.”

They never go to rural Norway, or Graz, or Malta, or Vitznau. Their friends have never heard of it, and there was never a Disney movie filmed there.

Yokels.

[quote] I do want to see the Baltic cities but do I really need to see another palace, church, garden, blah blah blah?

Yes. Record video so that if you don’t enjoy it at the level you should while you’re there, you can do so watching afterward.

They have discovered Sicily because of The White Lotus. Before COVID, it was Iceland. Where will it be next?

Enjoy yourself r17. I think you will and feel the urge to return.

I love Scotland r21 but I am biased as it's part of my heritage. Poland is too homophobic.

[quote]I love Scotland [R21] but I am biased as it's part of my heritage. Poland is too homophobic.

Have you been to Poland? How were the people homophobic to you?

There was a time those cities and countries would be grateful for the tourist dollars. Now they hate us all.

r22 Or maybe those countries culture are boring?

The first two weeks of September in less touristed regions of Italy like Liguria, Puglia, or Sicily are absolutely gorgeous. And hardly any tourists.

Poland is great. And much better if some Americans are afraid to go there because Dan Savage tweeted “Poland = Mali”.

R25 Please don’t be one of those dolts who wanders around Scotland saying “I’m one-quarter Scottish, if you go back eight generations!”

R28 You’ve never been, so how would you know?

I love how r22 and his ilk think all Americans are all yokels. There are plenty of educated and cultured Americans who travel throughout Europe.

There are also plenty of European yokels in Europe.

People are a lot alike in a lot of places.

Are they predominantly American tourists? Or are they other Europeans?

Probably a lot of Europeans who might normally visit the US are staying away.

(Also, why does everyone go to Barcelona? I liked it, but there are plenty of other European cities that are just as impressive and don't get as much traffic.)

Too many summer tourists in Greece.

Is it SUCH a gay thing to shit all over certain places in Europe (that nobody else has a problem with) because they're just not fabulous or la-di-da enough for the "discerning" gay.

"Oh, Barcelona. Well, it's alright. I guess. "Florence? I went a couple of times and it was alright, I guess. Rather common in places, I thought."

That is 100% right out of Priss Gay Stereotype 101.

Outside of the Nordic countries, I think visiting Europe in the summer is not wise. Crowds, unexpected heat waves with NO AC, prices are higher - long lines for everything.

April/May or Oct/Nov is best. Except for Nordic countries - they only have like 8-10 weeks of good weather anyway.

If you are going to do one European vacation, which many people do, of course you are going to go to the big, touristy cities. Really, fly to Europe and go to rural Norway instead of somewhere you have heard about your whole life?

With that said, it is more crowded. Recently went to Bologna where I went to grad school, it was absolutely packed. The shop keepers said it was the new flights from the cheap European airlines.

I've been to Poland and the people we met were lovely

R38 - there have been cheap airlines in Europe for 25 years now. I don't think there's all of a sudden more flights to Bologna. Unless there's been some sort of resurgence in Bolognese.

What about Nice? And the Isle of Greece?

R17 I hate to be that person but just to save you the embarrassment of being corrected by a local - Helsinki is not a Scandinavian city. Finland is a Nordic country but is not Scandinavian.

It literally doesn’t matter, r42.

Really? "Literally"? It probably literally doesn't matter to you R43 but I know from experience that it is important to the Finns.

I assume that you're one of those people who thinks that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are part of the country of England?

You're a fool for going to Italy in the middle of summer, OP

R43 Better have a beefy ass, because he's a complete shit-for-brains.

R32 While there are plenty of educated and cultured Americans travelling in Europe - and indeed on this thread - some of your compatriots, especially on this thread, really do reinforce the stereotype of the clueless American tourist bumbling his way around the world with no idea where he is, shouting to make himself understood and complaining that the Starbucks tastes different and not understanding the currency and who cares about the differences between countries?

Scan upwards here and you'll see a few classic examples.

Happy trails - travel is my passion and I can't get enough of it.

I flew into Helsinki, rented a car, and set out to drive up Western Finland to Oulu. Spent a couple days in Tampere and almost a week in and around Jakobstad before reaching Oulu. My Swedish is pretty good so I felt comfortable in the Swedish speaking west coast (though everybody told me that I had a strong Stockholm accent). Not to worry, almost every Finn speaks understandable English. I encountered no Americans after I left Tampere and a few tourists from other Nordic countries. But we tourists were not many at all.

This was one of the most relaxing true vacations I’ve ever taken. The museums I visited were uncrowded albeit smallish. I saw incredible scenery — rivers, lakes, the sea, ancient ruins, small towns — that I hope to remember forever. I left the rental car in Oulu and took a train back to Helsinki, spent a couple nights there before flying home. I had been to Helsinki many times before, and Turku twice, but this time I got a real feeling of acquaintance with Finland. Highly recommend.

March in Paris is perfect for hours of brooding in a café.

[quote] Have you been to Poland? How were the people homophobic to you?

Nope. Homophobic democracy does not get my gay money.

I don't go to Florida either.

I only singled out Poland because it came up in a post including Scotland, three of my grandparents were born there. If it went as homophobic as Poland I would reconsider visiting my ancestry.

I have several friends who have been to Poland. They see their remaining Polish relatives as extremely racist and homophobic.

Many North Americans of Polish ancestry are well known for their racism and homophobia.

r42 Don't even bother, these things don't matter to most here, they call Melania Eastern European all the time.

They love lecturing us on how to divide our regions based on their outdated Cold War views, but they'd probably bite my head off I referred to Washington as a Midwestern state, even though everyone there speaks English and shares mostly the same culture with all other states.

r51 What country are you from??

You were expecting them to explore Ukraine, perhaps?

I think it's rural Poland (and rural Hungary, Slovakia, etc.) that are very conservative and homophobic. Warsaw would be totally different. Rural people are conservative and homophobic just about everywhere.

R22 Malta?!

Malta is the EU’s shithole. There is no reason to visit Malta, unless you’re a poor Brit on a package deal.

Do they give a big greasy breakfast?

Even in Italy in the summer there are regions not that full, i was in Umbria two years agor at the end of July, beggining of August and it was mostly empty with the minor assumption of Assizi. Dozens of gorgeous, hilly towns with lots of art, good food and great views. In more than one place we had the museums mostly to ourselves.

Conversely went to Florence last November and it was packed tourist hell.

^exception, not assumption

I just spent two weeks in Greece. Fly into Santorini or Mykonos, stay 1-2 nights to take the obligatory photos, and then take a ferry to a smaller island without an airport. The food is great (honest and simple), the prices are good, and it’s easy to find a beach without crowds - with a little adventure, you will have beaches to yourself. This style trip is good if you want to relax. You know, take a break.

France has dozens of fascinating cities that are not overrun with foreign tourists. All of them have interesting museums, beautiful architecture, good food, gardens, patisseries, etc. Paris is so fucking overrated it's ridiculous.

I'm spending my summer in the mountains around the Balkans. Beautiful and not crowded at all.

R6, since when was Paris on the Mediterranean? And WTF are the "Anglo" parts of Europe?

Bloody Americans.

[quote]I just spent two weeks in Greece. Fly into Santorini or Mykonos, stay 1-2 nights to take the obligatory photos, and then take a ferry to a smaller island without an airport

Or don't. Go where you want to visit, not to a place for no better reason than to take an "obligatory" selfie in front of something "iconic," while whining, "It's sooo crowded."

A selfie is a selfie is a selfie, and unless the person looking at it is on the photo, he has already moved on, the thin wedge of white stucco and blue sky in the background having gone quite unnoticed.

I completely agree, 62. But you have to fly in to somewhere, so I am saying, if you must ….

I did have one night in Mykonos (can’t avoid due to flight) and the “people watching” was fantastic. I got pizza because I knew the Greek food would be terrible.

The selfie shit is beyond annoying. Instagram is one of the worst things that has happened to our society imho.

I do not understand this endless need for a selfie. I've perhaps taken 2 in my lifetime and have no desire for any more. I don't need a picture of myself to show that I was someplace to remember/document it.

I've had an instagram account for 6+ years. It has 10 or so pix of my dogs. Unless you are an OF 'model' advertising your hourly rate, I see no need for an Insta feed full of nothing but you doing things.

And don't get me started on the people who need to take a picture of what they are served in a restaurant....

[quote]And don't get me started on the people who need to take a picture of what they are served in a restaurant....

These people should be shot.

Honestly, at this point tourism is so blown up that the best time to see Rome or Paris or Barcelona is as off-season as you can get. It’s so overrun in the summer and there’s a 1 in 4 chance of a punishing heatwave.

We did a January getaway to Paris and while the outdoor scene was badly missed, we had an enchanting time otherwise and there was so much more room to move in general.

Also for a spacious and remote European summertime experience, if you just want escapist scenery and don’t require much amusement: the eastern edges of the Northwestern peninsula of Iceland. After three days up there I came away feeling so peaceful and inspired.

Global warming is really affecting Europe. The weather has been unbearably hot all summer. Don’t think it will get cooler in future years.

I found remarkable solitude and stark natural beauty in Patagonia. Much more so than even the most far-flung parts of Norway or Iceland.

But it's not Europe.

[Quote] Are they predominantly American tourists? Or are they other Europeans?

Depends on where you go. Florence, for example, was full of American tourists, while Milan had mainly European tourists.

While the big cities are tourist hell, the small cities usually don’t have that issue and can be pleasant to visit. That said, they don’t have as many things to see either.

Americans are still better tourists than the Chinese.

At least we generally wait in line, obey the No Smoking signs, and don't shit in the lavatory sinks.

Now, my well traveled friends are turning to the Balkans—Serbia, Bulgaria, etc

Chinese are pigs. Yeah, go ahead and call me racist. They are PIGS. There are signs outside the Louvre in Mandarin instructing them not to piss and shit on the museum grounds.

PIGS.

[quote]Now, my well traveled friends are turning to the Balkans—Serbia, Bulgaria, etc

Gorgeous countries. Surprisingly high quality of life.

R75 I was in Basel and Lucerne some years ago, just as the Red Devils were starting to discover the Alps in large numbers. All of the public toilets had this laminated sign - presumably provided by the canton health authorities - depicting a person standing on a toilet and defecating from an upright position. It had a big red "x" over it. The caption below was printed only in Chinese. I don't know what it said, but it told me all I needed to know.

At the Rheinfall, there were similar signs tacked to the railings that depicted not chasing the swans, not smoking, and not throwing trash into the falls. Again, only in Chinese.

In Lucerne, you saw why the signs were necessary. The Chinese tourists would CHASE the swans on the water's edge and try to grab them to take photos and rub them for luck or some Confucian bullshit. I guess swans are a good omen in China, and worthy of animal abuse. Cops and locals were nearby to tell them to stop.

r77 they are a menace everywhere they go.

R78 Worse in Hong Kong. They stay in the cheapest hotels, and steal everything that isn't nailed down. Towels, bedsheets, the steam trays at the breakfast buffet. I thought that was just a Homer Simpson joke, but I no-shit watched a Mainlander pick up the entire tray of scrambled eggs and carry it back to her table.

They go to Europe for photos - usually shoving their way to the front of any crowd - but they go to Honkers to SHOP. They load up on perfumes, electronics, couture, etc.

Same thing you see when Brazilians come to Miami with five empty suitcases.

[quote] All of the public toilets had this laminated sign - presumably provided by the canton health authorities - depicting a person standing on a toilet and defecating from an upright position. It had a big red "x" over it.

I went to a college with a substantial international student population, which is where I first learned that many cultures in Asia and India will stand on the toilet to squat and 💩.

[quote] I no-shit watched a Mainlander pick up the entire tray of scrambled eggs and carry it back to her table.

Whoa, it's like the travel version of Sows At The Trough!

R80 Or the green room at "The View."

r31

[quote]Please don’t be one of those dolts who wanders around Scotland saying “I’m one-quarter Scottish, if you go back eight generations!"

I don't dispute that this happens (nor do I do it), as I've run across the complaint frequently; but I'd like to better understand this sentiment by natives of a country (it seems to happen in all countries) who are evidently dismayed by the pride visitors take in their ancestral link to the country. The natives don't want to hear about it because, what?, (a) it's boring; (b) the visitor seems to expect special treatment; (c) the frequency of its happening eats up too much of life; (d) I don't care about my native country, why should you?; (e) all of the above; (f) other (specify)? I'd think it would be a refreshing step up from the likes of, "Nice day, isn't it?" and "Could you tell me where the nearest public restroom is?".

My one relevant personal experience with this was at a cathedral in East Anglia where I had asked a passing ecclesiastic about a particular item in the architecture, and he followed his answer with a discerning look and a question, " . . . Was your family perhaps from around here . . . ?" On learning my surname (which has a specific association with the lay of the land there), and that they had emigrated several centuries ago, he said, "Oh, yes--we still have many of that name here. Welcome back!" This was very charming and memorable to me and seemed agreeable to him, hence my mystification that others don't have this cordial and mutually pleasant attitude.

I agree about some American compatriots but let's not kid ourselves that other countries don't have their own boorish tourists. Brits, yikes. Chinese, appalling.

^^Germans, when they've been drinking. Holy shit.

[Quote] Now, my well traveled friends are turning to the Balkans—Serbia, Bulgaria, etc

Many say, however, they aren’t ready for a mass or tourists yet. There aren’t enough quality facilities, restaurants, hotels

This thread has really brought out the prissy, Midwestern pedants.

OP, aren't you of course one of the tourists overloading Europe yourself?

You're part of the problem you diagnose.

[quote] Many say, however, they aren’t ready for a mass or tourists yet. There aren’t enough quality facilities, restaurants, hotels

Are they going to build more hostels, like the movie “Hostel”? Travel to Eastern Europe would be like Deliverance.

Skip Europe.

Try Asia, Africa, and South America.

You can thank me later.

[quote] Try Asia, Africa, and South America.

And be eaten or sacrificed to their pagan gods?

[quote]...but I'd like to better understand this sentiment by natives of a country (it seems to happen in all countries) who are evidently dismayed by the pride visitors take in their ancestral link to the country. The natives don't want to hear about it because, what?, (a) it's boring; (b) the visitor seems to expect special treatment; (c) the frequency of its happening eats up too much of life; (d) I don't care about my native country, why should you?; (e) all of the above; (f) other (specify)? I'd think it would be a refreshing step up from the likes of, "Nice day, isn't it?" and "Could you tell me where the nearest public restroom is?".

R82: Mostly (a). It's a fucking bore if you live in a place like Ireland or Italy or Germany to have your cities flooded with American tourists who think they have brought a gift to "their ancestral land" in the form of themselves, eager to embrace their quaint fucking cousins living in stone houses, maybe under thatched fucking roofs, hoping for an inviattion to enhjoy some home cooked corned beef and cabbage or gabagool.

The Americans never understand that talk of genealogy about people the American visitors never knew let along their Irish barman or taxi driver couldn't give a fat fuck about. Or prattling on about the St. Patrick's Day parades back in the States or the most famous pizza parlor in Toms River, New Jersey as if these things were somehow of interest to the natives who have heard it all (in one ear and fast out the other) a thousand times from someone really talking, as if to a class of slow and unruly 9-year-olds.

If you're an American who strikes up a genuine conversation with a real Irishman, or real Italian, or true Scotsman, at some point they will probably indicate some degree of curiosity about what brought you there to be, by chance, in their company. That's the time to say, "I've always been curious to visit, in part because some of my ancestors immigrated from here a century ago, so that pushed it up the list a bit."

*The Americans never understand not to talk about genealogy as their intro...

Some tips for Irish-Americans visiting Ireland

No one wants to go to the US especially our neighbors to the north who would normally visit places here. Thanks Orange man.

If a foreigner traveled to the U,S. and said they had ancestors who were Americans, they would be warmly embraced.

At least with NYC, tourists generally sticks to areas where NYers can avoid—Times Square, Statue of Liberty, etc

I hate that restaurants in Europe now expect tipping because of stupid American tourists actually demanding to give tips

R95: Not if they fucking unloaded with this important news to every taxi driver, waiter, barman, hotel desk clerk, car rental agent, and stranger at the next table at a cafe.

Context, R95. You wouldn't get a stranger's hug straightaway and an invitation to tell your tale to every stranger you encountered, "let's dit down then so we can have a proper listen to you -- and spare us no detail now, we want to know everything about those American ancestors of yours!".

[quote]No one wants to go to the US

Tell that to the hordes of migrants who are coming in daily.

Well, the poor ones want to come to the US, not the ones with money

When I traveled a million years ago, it was a great delight to “blend in” with the locals.

Visit out of the way hill towns in Italy only reached by the bus (what an experience that trip was! The drive was fabulous!) or traveling across the south of France on a train (gorgeous!) or hopping a crappy ship transport in Naples.

Those are great memories I have. Also being the only American in customs at some tiny airport near Toulouse. That was wild. At the time, my Italian was passing so I was able to explore more than I could otherwise.

I loved exploring off the beaten paths. And I have always wanted to visit Romania, Poland and Estonia.

Maybe one day.

Europe is overloaded with tourists!

And Hell's Kitchen is full of whores!

I want to go on a Baltic cruise. That way I can see all of them in one trip.

They're all over NY and LA r100

r91 Thanks! Yes, I see: It's the babbling presumption and self-importance of insensitive tourists. Bummerville!

The poster who suggested visiting Europe in the dead of winter has some good advice. It's not as crowded then. Summertime is a clusterfuck now.

[quote]If you're an American who strikes up a genuine conversation with a real Irishman, or real Italian, or true Scotsman,

So there are fake ones?

[quote] No one wants to go to the US

The US got 74 million visitors last year, more than any other country except France or Spain.

Let's see this year's numbers in 2026.

[quote] Enjoy yourself [R17]. I think you will and feel the urge to return

I’m curious as to what you are implying.

Winter may be too cold to enjoy Europe. Consider spring or fall

Gee....everyone kept saying Italy's tourism would tank with the election of Meloni....

[quote] Winter may be too cold to enjoy Europe.

The average high temperature in January in Lisbon and Barcelona is 59. In Rome, it’s 55 and Athens it’s 56. I suppose if one lives in South Florida it may seem too cold.

I’d love to go to Venice, maybe even in the off season but I’m afraid of serial killer dwarves.

That's always a problem, r114. Even in the off season you have to watch out for those killer dwarves.

The other benefit to Venice in Winter is that it doesn't smell as bad.

R116 is a another person who has never been to Venice.

“ No one wants to go to the US”

Who cares. We are hundreds of millions. We entertain ourselves. We create our own forms of music. We invent our own sports. We write lWe keep ourselves happily entertained with just our domestic market. So if the world doesn’t want to come visit, we will be just fine.

Run along R117 - try and get a response out of someone else if that's how you get your kicks.

Nice Isolationist post R118. No wonder Trump was elected.

Venice in the winter can be very, very wet. The vaporetto stops can be closed due to flooding, San Marco Square floods, and the people there seem to be in piss poor moods when it’s like that.

R96- That’s not true- Throngs of them go to the Museums.

The museums in NYC are always crowded with tourists.

R121 yes the rain is a pain. However like NYC in winter, Venice smells much better. I went to NYC once in August/September and it reeked of piss, dog shit and various rotting vegetable / uncollected garbage smells. December/January only for me now with an added bonus if it snows (it doesn't snow where I am) - although not for another couple of years until your post-Mussolini era.

In my youth I spent quite a bit of time in Northern Italy skiing and pretending to learn Italian - the canals were decidedly less "fragrant" out of season.

[Quote] The museums in NYC are always crowded with tourists.

Yes, another place most NYers don’t go to that often

[Quote] I went to NYC once in August/September and it reeked of piss, dog shit and various rotting vegetable / uncollected garbage smells.

It’s true that that’s the smell of NYC in the summer. That smell, however, may become a thing of the past as the city is installing a new garbage bin system.

[quote]I hate that restaurants in Europe now expect tipping because of stupid American tourists actually demanding to give tips.

Where?

I only notice a shift toward tipping as a customary practice in some touristic grounds zero in some popular destination cities. In the 14thC restaurant where Cervantes drank in the shadow of the cathedral, you can see that the waiters at the outdoor tables are accustomed to tipping, but two blocks away in a restaurant not 100% filled with tourists that's not the case. In the streets in the very picturesque center of the center, the ones where tourists are busier posting selfies than eating or drinking at their sidewalk tables, you can see that tipping has become customary for the tourists and waiters. But this is limited to that frenzied "Rome in 72 Hours" mindset where tourists conquer one city before setting off for the next with their lists of Top Five Experiences or Top Five Must See Places in X city. You can certainly find examples of businesses where tipping has become customary practice, but only in restaurants frequented almost exclusively by tourists, probably expensive, probably overcrowded and hurried, and probably of mediocre quality in food.

Generally: in Portugal, Spain, Italy, France, Scandinavian countries, no; in Germany, Czech Republic, Austria, Hungary, yes, as examples, but with modest tipping of a Euro or two, maybe 5% or10% to reward a sympathetic waiter for making space for you where there was none, for good recommendations, for especially thoughtful service.

R126, yes, in European touristy areas, restaurants now assume tips

What are the "Anglo" parts of Europe, r7?

They "expect" tips now because there are more payments by card and the card readers now give the customer the "option" of a 5, 10 or 15% tip. The solution is to pay cash.

Mind, this isn't the case everywhere. While they have picked up this habit in Athens, it's still not spread to Thessaloniki or Cyprus, two places where I've been recently.

Hungary and the UK automatically add a "service charge" to the bill, and have done so for years.

Tipping is common in restaurants in the south of France.

[quote]yes, in European touristy areas, restaurants now assume tips

Absolutely, R127, in some cities, but only within the most touristy of tourist areas from my experience -- the restaurants where every seat at every table is filled with someone speaking a language other than the local one. There is little evidence of tipping becoming some kind of foreign vice spilling over into parts of the city even a block away from the tourist path. At least for the people living in those cities, tipping remains uncustomary.

I only go to Europe/UK now off season. Halloween time is perfect, less people and its not stiflingly hot.

The point of tips in the US is that waitstaff get paid crap. In Europe they get paid a living wage

Why do so many European cities have graffiti everywhere. Lisbon is the worst

R99- You mean ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

Arm sleeve tattoos are at epidemic levels in europe

Ex-Pat here. I live in Florence. There are always tourist here, but they stick to a very small concentrated area. That's why it seems to be a so dense with tourists. It's easy enough to avoid them if you stay out of that area. American tourism is actually way down. There have been articles about it. The dollar is super weak as well, so American's money is not going as far as it used to. I hear a lot of other Europeans here at the moment. There are Americans, just not as many.

[quote]Why do so many European cities have graffiti everywhere. Lisbon is the worst

Graffiti is part of the culture. It is as ancient as the Romans themselves. It is an Italian word after all - it means scratches. I like it, to a point. Although I prefer street art to graffiti.

R11 couldn't be more wrong. That is definitely America with the globalization. That is why, try as I might, for a country as big as the United States, I can only think of maybe six cities that I would even care to visit. Everything else is the same. Whereas Italy, a country just a little bigger than Florida, I can easily come up with a list of 10 places I love to visit, all different.

I am headed to see the Pet Shop Boys in Lucca tomorrow and headed to Cinque Terre the following week for a couple of days.

Ah…Lucca.

R135- To me

Tattoos are GRAFFITI

r134 The point of tips as far as the tipper is concerned is and has always been to recognize the quality of service received (not to address economic inequities). Europeans in particular seem to have this delusion that American tipping is some sort of conscious attempt by the tipper to engage in a grass-roots socio-economic program to save waitstaff from destitution. Nope: What's on the tipper's mind at the time of tipping is only: Good service, bigger tip; bad service, smaller tip.

[quote] The Americans never understand not to talk about genealogy as their intro...

I would never do that. If I ever visit Ireland I will start a conversation by relating how my Finnish-American mother hated the Irish because they would beat up the Finns on the docks of Duluth Minnesota where her dad worked as a stevedore. Then I would ask directions to the mass cemetery where Catholic nuns buried 800 murdered babies.

I kid. Ireland is now more advanced than the U.S. so I would just offer up a "top o' the mornin' to ye!" and ask them if they believe in leprechauns and how I know 'craic' means a good time and not cocaine.

Europe is over

I don’t recall Italian restaurants in touristy areas mainly serving only pizza and pasta. That’s got to be the American tourist effect

My condolences, OP.

I've written this before but when I was in Europe in the 90s I could go anywhere without waiting on lines or making reservations. I recently wrote about my stupendous visit to the Villa Borghese. Just walked in. Vatican Museum with the Sistine Chapel. Just walked in. Uffizi Gallery no line. Eiffel Tower just bought a ticket and walked in like you see in Funny Face. La Cappella degli Scrovegni to see the Giotto frescos in Padua walked in and spent as much time as I wanted to. I think it was August or September? Maybe Paris was May. I don't remember but it was just a case of doing what I wanted to do that day without waiting. Not being brushed up against other people. I don't think I'm going back.

So your commenting even though you haven’t been there in over 25 years? That’s not worth a piss.

R147 It's worth knowing for the contrast to what's happening now.

Same concept as "history." You know.

R102, whores in flip-flops, you mean! And when a few get taken by their sugar daddies to Europe in the summer they behave abominably.

I was recently in Scotland and it was overrun with Americans. They are loud, but most were friendly and well-meaning.

What surprised me was the percentage of MAGA I encountered. Those people have no shame and are actually proud of the state of their country. I had one brag to me that Trump's tariffs are brilliant and if countries like Canada "can't pay" then it shouldn't be a country in the first place. I did the old smile and nod because I didn't feel like arguing with a hick while enjoying the Highlands.

R135, I thought that honor went to Athens, the Newark of Europe.

I love the looking down at "hicks" while in Scotland. Scotland!

[quote] I want to try Africa but haven’t a clue where to start

Capetown

R153 Marrakech also works

R158 you have no knowledge with which to draw a contrast other than gossip here. Piss poor.

Post when you’ve seen the change yourself.

R148. ^^

Zanzibar

R155, R156 I'm not who you think I am. I didn't make the original post. I was just defending it, since I found it interesting/informative.

It wasn’t but fair enough.

I live near a tourist-y area in the US--it's overloaded with tourists this year, as well.

They should required a separate visa to see the High Line and Little Island.

I love all the "America is fascist now. I'm not going as long as Trump is there!" Bitches, I'm about to get on the PCH and cruise to San Luis Obispo for a pool party/barbecue at a friend's house. Fuck all you bitches, there is nothing like this anywhere else.

R162 You think there’s no one else living like you?

Of course other countries have trash.

r163 doesn't understand the assignment.

R162 Hope you don't mind going into the fields to pick the fruit for your strawberry daiquiri when all the farm workers are deported.

Nah r165. I'm leaving soon. Have a nice day.

[quote]I've written this before but when I was in Europe in the 90s I could go anywhere without waiting on lines or making reservations. I recently wrote about my stupendous visit to the Villa Borghese. Just walked in. Vatican Museum with the Sistine Chapel. Just walked in. Uffizi Gallery no line. Eiffel Tower just bought a ticket and walked in like you see in Funny Face. La Cappella degli Scrovegni to see the Giotto frescos in Padua walked in and spent as much time as I wanted to.... Not being brushed up against other people. I don't think I'm going back.

The first time I went to Rome it was the same. In another century, because of my work I could just show up unannounced and talk my way into almost any building or private house wherever I travelled. It was easy then. It's not easy now, there are crowds everywhere, for anything seriously popular tickets must be bought seriously in advance, guards and porters don't just open the door and let you wander about. But it doesn't make amazing and beautiful things and places less amazing or less beautiful, it just takes more forethought and longer lines. The experience of stumbling into an empty Galeria Borghese without a reserved ticket or the Uffizi are gone (the Borghese has half a million annual visitors, the Uffizi more than 4 million), but the art in them isn't diminished by the additional effort to see them.

Travel has become a huge fucking deal, and at times a real nuisance to have to plot in advance details that would be better plotted out day by day in your two weeks in Rome, but for the big sites that's exactly what you have to do, to not do is to risk not being able to see places you would sorely like to see. Touristic massification it is called, which encompasses overbooked museums and over abundant AirBnBs that change the nature of historic city centers for the worse.

The alternative is another ridiculous word, the staycation, or the advice of idiotic 22-year-old travel influencers, who blow into Florence and publish a list of "5 Alternatives to Overcrowded Florence": "Don't pay an arm and a leg and book tickets months in advance for the crowded Uffizzi, instead go to the Hzero model train museum where you can pay €12 and walk straight in!" Well of course you can walk straight in, it's a model train museum, but is that why you came to the epicenter of Renaissance art and architecture? The too cool for school approach of laughs at the idea of going any place popular, instead suggesting some alternative that isn't remotely in the same league.

Sometimes you have to dig in and book the tickets in advance and face some lines and inconvenience. That's no reason to keep me at home, however, I try to balance out the very popular with more obscure places and things to see. It's different than it was in the late 1980s, but so is everything.

Zzzzzz🥺

R167 The fuck outta here with that white nonsense. "Because of your work," you could barge into any building or private home? Who the fuck are you? Batman? The Fire Marshal?

You sound as full of shit as your own impacted colon.

Ex-Pat in Florence here again. Social Media has played a HUGE part in what we are seeing now. Tourist will traipse through town and go to the same four places and take a photo. Here, it's all'Antico Venaio sandwich shop that is now all over country and breaking into the United States market. There are a dozen good sandwich shops but because that has been posted so many times on Instagram, there is a line 25 deep on each side of the street for their shop. There are four restaurants overbooked, again because of Instagram. People are sitting at home looking at all the vacation posts and saying - "I want to go to there." There are a ton of beautiful places in Italy - Forti Dei Marmi, Viareggio, Rimini, Gaeta and dozens of others. But because people post on their social Venice, Rome, Florence, Cinque Terre, Amalfi, Sicily (Taormina), Capri and Como, those are the places tourist go. Puglia is becoming that as well with it's i trulli.

[quote]The point of tips as far as the tipper is concerned is and has always been to recognize the quality of service received (not to address economic inequities).

It's the same here. But the tip is exactly that - a symbol. So if the service was beyond you leave a euro or two. If a restaurant I know squeezed me in at the least minute, I tip 5 euros maybe. It's the size of the tip, the mandatory minimum of 20% of a tab that is alarming to Europeans. When you have a bill of $200 and you are tipping $40 on top of that, that is a HUGE amount and definitely feels like you are helping to pay for the waiters rent. And in America they ask for tips where no real service was given, and it's just part of someone's job to hand you a coffee. And on top of that, the restaurant is pooling all of the tips to tax them when they are usually skimming off the top. Tips ARE wages, reported as wages in the US.

R170 You used to be called Pat?

Are you Julia Sweeney? If so, how am ya? I thought you were dead, luv!

Well--nothing is the same any more, anywhere, even in the US, beaches require reservations, and parking is costly, and a lot of places are now "locals only." The days are gone (at least where I am) where you just decide to go to a beach, pay a small fee in cash, and enjoy the day. And everything is much more crowded, and on the beach you hear a lot of languages so you might as well be abroad.

🧐even in the US, beaches require reservations ¿Dónde, puta?

I adore Europe, France.

R173 I don't speak Spanish so I had to look that up.

Where? This summer in New England a lot of beaches have started requiring that you pay in advance online or make a parking reservation. There are no longer any people taking money at a booth. There are a lot of locally owned beaches around here. They also charge a lot more than they used to. Some have reduced the size of their parking lots. it used to be just go early and pay your 2 or 3 bucks, whatever.

Parking fees or town fees do not = paying for the beach.

Beaches are otherwise free in every coastal state in the USA; in most states as a constitutional right.

R176 That's just technical BS. In Mass. towns like Beverly Farms and Manchester-by-the-Sea have private town beaches, heavily posted, residents only, "no drop-offs," and checking for stickers. They aren't the only ones. If you don't live there, how are you going to use the beach? Walk in three miles?

And yes, for all intents and purposes, parking fees do = paying for the beach, since if you don't live near the beach, you really can't go, can you? Wingaersheek Beach in Gloucester is several miles from any major road, for ex.

The state beaches that charge fees are also "free" but if you aren't living/staying within walking distance, what's free about it?

Grow up.

Wouldn't the fees cover some kind of maintenance?

[quote] even in the US, beaches require reservations

[quote] This summer in New England a lot of beaches have started requiring that you pay in advance online or make a parking reservation.

[quote] In Mass. towns like Beverly Farms and Manchester-by-the-Sea have private town beaches, heavily posted, residents only, "no drop-offs," and checking for stickers.

That’s funny how R172 makes a broad claim that beaches in the U.S. require reservations, but when challenged keeps reducing the scope, first reducing it to New England and then just to specific towns in Massachusetts. It would have been better to have stated initially that he knew of towns in Massachusetts that required reservations, instead of stating “the U.S.”.

I know that Connecticut beaches charge exorbitant amounts for parking, like $100 for nonresidents.

Yes, the beach is free but the towns do everything they can to keep out nonresidents

We have to charge. Otherwise we'd have all of Bridgeport and New Haven here. Good lord.

R162 you've never left your beloved country, have you? You can jump on a yacht anywhere with a coastline.

Otherwise you're right - there's nowhere quite like the USA. Enjoy your fascist dictatorship. Your capital punishment shared with just a couple of other undemocratic shitholes. Absence of universal healthcare. The undemocratic electoral college. Massive student loans for a shit education. Elementary school mass shootings because of the freedom to bear arms.

Have a nice trip on the boat, you fuckstick.

R182 And he's not even on a boat! Driving up the road to a barbecue! Wow - can't do that anywhere else.

Mighty impressive R162 USA! USA! USA!

[quote]Here, it's all'Antico Venaio sandwich shop

I remember when only Florentines knew about that place. You could just walk up and get a sandwich and a glass of wine and leisurely hang out on the sidewalk and there'd be maybe five other people. Tourists wouldn't even know how the place worked or how to order.

r182/r183 are just the life of the party!

R185 Perfectly confirming what I said.

You fascists are nothing if not predictable.

R95 you would be hard pressed to find anybody proud of being of USA descent these days - I know that that is probably a shock to you.

You do know, don't you, that Americans anywhere on the planet other than the USA are considered "foreigners"? Of course you don't, bless your simple American heart.

This is why we laugh at you.

r186/r187 you post the same shit in every thread, you really need to get some new material. Yeah, you hate Americans. Great. We don't care. What a miserable cunt you are. And now Americans are all "fascists?" Ok.

I don't think all Americans are fascists, I don't believe most Trump voters actively believed they were opting for fascism, if they even understood what it is.

There is no question in my mind that the USA is moving toward traditional right wing fascism. As a longtime friend I wish you the best. I feel you can beat it.

[quote]I don't believe most Trump voters actively believed they were opting for fascism, if they even understood what it is.

90%+ of people using the word fascism in recent years clearly don't understand the meaning of it.

Like they don’t understand the word “socialism.” They equate it with communism.

[quote]Like they don’t understand the word “socialism.”

You can tell who are the people who don't understand the meaning of socialism. They're the ones saying that real socialism has never been tried yet, that the Nordic countries are socialist, and that Social Security and Medicare are somehow examples of socialism.

[Quote] Here, it's all'Antico Venaio sandwich shop

I was wondering why the lines went down the block for that sandwich shop near my hotel in Florence. TikTok, of course

[Quote] You can tell who are the people who don't understand the meaning of socialism. They're the ones saying that real socialism has never been tried yet, that the Nordic countries are socialist, and that Social Security and Medicare are somehow examples of socialism.

They are examples of workable socialism, a.k.a, Democratic Socialism. Basically, capitalism with a very strong safety net.

[Quote] I don't think all Americans are fascists, I don't believe most Trump voters actively believed they were opting for fascism, if they even understood what it is.

They were opting for white supremacy. The way to operationalize that was fascism

R148 here. My point was that it was a great relaxing vacation to do what you wanted when you wanted according of course to their hours. Now I don't know if I remember correctly but a while ago I looked at La Cappella degli Scrovegni on line(when we were in Venice we felt like doing it that day) but not only do you have to reserve a time but there is a time limit. I was like huh? I did have the experience of seeing the Mona Lisa and it was so packed it was downright unpleasant. If most places are like that now despite the reservations you are only getting a partial experience without being able to spend the time soaking it all in without hordes of people around. Well in Florence at least there is the Bargello. Don't know if even that has suffered the same fate.

I met Irish cousins online. When I went to Ireland they truly treated me like family. I learned so much about our shared ancestry from them and I got to see the old houses where everyone lived and the graveyards where they are buried.

I'm welcome back anytime. Don't be afraid of the old country and don't be ashamed of your country or your background.

R196: I was at the Bargello about a year ago, on an October weekend, and there were few visitors (despite the streets in the tourist core being thick with visitors.)

Ugh, I don't even like spending the day with my cousins in THIS country. A big draw for international travel is that it gets me thousands of miles farther away from them for a short while.

[quote]Ugh, I don't even like spending the day with my cousins in THIS country.

I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

R200 If you can't name the tramps, drunks, boors, and bores in your own family, then I'm afraid it's YOU.

Every family has obnoxious people. Every family has an addict. Every family has a dirty uncle. Every family has drama. If you look around and see nothing but responsible Lutheran types, then congratulations, you're the loser. They all talk about it after you leave.

R197 reminded me of this classic scene from National Lampoon's European Vacation.

R202 Love those Germans. But their words don't match the subtitles.

Wer zum Teufel waren die Lauten? ("Who the Hell were the loud ones?")

Ich weiß es doch nicht! ("I don't know!")

What is it with gay men and Florence? I'm included in this too - I've been there several times and I love it. Just something about that city that attracts gay tourists.

Venice gets 250,000 visitors a day but has a population of 50,000!

I recently went and tourists were like roaches. That said, it was so much cleaner and neater than in the past. Seems that the tourist tax is helping.

[Quote] I was at the Bargello about a year ago, on an October weekend, and there were few visitors (despite the streets in the tourist core being thick with visitors.)

That’s a fantastic museum but few tourists have the time to fit that in too

Try Hamburg - the Venice of the North!

Except, you know, without all the stuff!

Venice has become Disney world. Everyone’s a tourist. Lots of gondolas everywhere. Does anyone actually live there??

Yes, it’s still gorgeous but it seems to exist only for tourists

[quote]What is it with gay men and Florence?

We just loved the way she talked back to George Jefferson.

Venice took a very long time to take this step which results in some real revenue.

I only wish the fee were more (with lowered fees for students. And further, that some of the money would be targeted to expanding the housing stock, ensuring it remains a place for Venetians to live or reclaim from AirBnB.

The population of the city is currently 49,000; in the 1950s the same area had a population of 175,000.

Apologies for the Gemini AI synopsis but it the most concise description I found:

[bold]In 2025, Venice is implementing a tourist tax, the Venice Access Fee, for day-trippers on specific dates between April and July. The fee is €5 if booked in advance (at least four days before) and €10 if booked later or upon arrival. This fee applies to the historic city center, Giudecca, and San Michele. Here's a breakdown:

What it is: A fee for day-trippers entering the historic center of Venice on designated dates.

When it applies: On 54 dates between April and July, primarily weekends.

Fee: €5 if booked at least four days in advance, €10 if booked later.

Who pays: Tourists not staying overnight in Venice.

Hours: 8:30 am to 4:00 pm on the designated dates.

[quote]Exemptions: Those staying overnight in the municipality of Venice (though they still need to request an exemption) and other specific categories like residents and some students.

Why it exists: To manage overtourism and generate revenue for the city.[/bold]

Yes they were talking about that many many years ago. I wonder why it took so long. People who made money off the day trippers? And yes you are right. Much too little. It should be a whole lot more.

It's a too common thing in cities that have huge members of visitors relative the population. Mayors, elected officials, city councils, chambers of commerce, tourist promotion boards are not easily persuaded to an argument for "let's reduce the numbers of visitors but improve visitor experience." improve per visitor spending at higher quality restaurants and hotels and local merchants. It will pay off in the end."

Its one case where I agree that "less is more" it's the way to preserve cities with local residents and not sell out the identity, the character, the specialness of a place -- and still take in money by encouraging richer visitors to make a week of it instead of a harried afternoon of it.

More cultured visitors don't want 800 tacky shops selling cheap plastic gondolas. They know not to eat at the restaurant with the owner's brother outside with a menu to shove in your hand as you pass by -- they look up the place that is most recommended locally, to taste the best of local food. They will pass by the tourist trap restaurants The want to see art and antiques and artisan's galleries and take some a couple expensive things that couldn't be found, exactly like,in another city. They may take a specialty private tour from an art historian and then will buy an expensive exhibition catalog.

The commercial interests overlook quality of life for their cities, believing that bigger numbers always mean better for the city.

[quote]More cultured visitors don't want 800 tacky shops selling cheap plastic gondolas.

They should have just one big one in Venice. Something like South of the Border in South Carolina.

[quote] Something like South of the Border in South Carolina

That place still exists?

[Quote] More cultured visitors don't want 800 tacky shops selling cheap plastic gondolas.

I bought a paper gondola kit!

My God, some Italian men are just stunning. Not all of them—and when they get older, they chub out—but the ones who are stand among the most gorgeous I’ve ever seen.

It’s the mix with the darker moors of North Africa that created the Italian look

R212, the tacky tourism has been around for decades - it's not what is causing the tourist overload in cities. I'd say the problem is more the huge increase in the "cultured tourist" type (or the tourist who thinks he or she is cultured) who searches online forthe "authentic places where locals go". These are especially the "city break" types.

My partner (travelling for work) was just on a train between Prague and Vienna where there was a "cultured tourist" type couple from England who were "doing" a day and a half in each of Budapest, Prague and Vienna by train. It's these short break "cultured" tourists who are causing the numbers to rise and the streets to become clogged. They were very excited and kept trying to talk to her because she fulfilled their stereotype of the cultured, polyglot, cosmopolitan Central European, especially badgering her for "local" restaurant recommendations because they wanted to avoid "tourist traps", while overlooking the fact that to the locals in the "authentic" restaurants they are tourists.

[quote] and when they get older, they chub out—but the ones who are stand among the most gorgeous I’ve ever seen.

I don’t know if I agree with this exactly. Italians are built different. They aren’t cornfed, so as they grow older they remain pretty svelte. I am not saying they are tip top shape, but several of them still have the lean bodies they had in their 20s. Trust me I see them in the locker room everyday. They don’t have pecs. The average weight is beteeen 150-170. Me on the other hand, having spent my adult life in Chelsea, NY and working my body everyday to where I have residual pecs, arms, and legs, I feel like a beast of burden here. And on a side note, I don’t think they have sweat glands either. And on the flip side between the cigarettes (now ecigs) and coffee culture, don’t be surprised if more than a few of them have breath is strong enough to peel the bark off of a tree.

Well if you were from another country would you come to the US on vacation knowing that they are in the middle of becoming a theocracy arresting strangers off the streets while wearing mask and diapering them to other countries without even seeing a judge?

[quote] "authentic places where locals go". These are especially the "city break" types.

My friend lives in Venice and got so tired of people asking where the locals like to eat, where do they go, that she started recommending the McDonalds on the mainland. She tells them it’s full of locals and you won’t see a single tourist.

Sadly, your friend is probably correct.

[quote]It’s the mix with the darker moors of North Africa that created the Italian look

DNA testing has proven this false. Only about 2-3% of Southern Italians and Sicilians have North African blood, according to test samples. The Moors were more of a ruling class and didn't mix much with the locals. Think the British in India.

[quote]My God, some Italian men are just stunning. Not all of them—and when they get older, they chub out—but the ones who are stand among the most gorgeous I’ve ever seen.

You've never been to Italy.

There are sooo many older men in great shape. And who are well dressed and groomed.

Even the Highlands are not safe!

I agree. I can't be arsed with it. My mum gets a bit lonely so I sometimes take her places at the weekend. I live in the UK and I took her to our nearest coastline. Feels like every mfer had the same idea, it was bedlam. Could barely get parked and almost every cafe, pub and restaurant was packed to bursting point.

The Dutch and Germans have always visited the UK coastline (as I understand ours is a lot more interesting than theirs), but I swear every second car had a NL/DE registration plate.

We keep being told the economy is a mess and inflation is through the roof, but people seem to be falling over themselves to spend their money regardless.

R223- I agree . Southern Italians cluster with Greeks and Spaniards.

[Quote] DNA testing has proven this false. Only about 2-3% of Southern Italians and Sicilians have North African blood, according to test samples. The Moors were more of a ruling class and didn't mix much with the locals. Think the British in India.

Well, just plain old blackie blood then

Well it seems rather coincidental that the people in countries near Africa look like a mix of Whites and Blacks…

[quote]I'd say the problem is more the huge increase in the "cultured tourist" type (or the tourist who thinks he or she is cultured) who searches online forthe "authentic places where locals go: These are especially the "city break" types.

[quote]...on a train between Prague and Vienna where there was a "cultured tourist" type couple from England who were "doing" a day and a half in each of Budapest, Prague and Vienna by train.

R218: What you describe is certainly a problem. I live surrounded by it and this type of thing isn't doing anyone any favors, save the airlines and AirBnB scum. Almost without exception, the first question is "OMG, you live here! Tell me all the cool places to eat and drink and see the real city." They want everything reduced to "so what are your top bars/restaurants/hidden secrets..."

But even with all the affectation and balls in the world, "doing" 3 cities a day-a-half by train, or even a walloping 1.5 days in each city...you can call yourself anything, but you pretend to be a traveller driven by culture with that kind of farm herd tourism with a hot prod chasing after one's ass.

Who wants those people? Maybe the tour guided with the umbrellas aloft, leading a group of 75 people? The Central Station guild of 2.5/3 (by a huge stretch) hoteliers? The greasy gyro and pizza restaurants (because pizza is the universal)? In the democracy of money, few cities discourage any visitors. But there's not a lot of money or other benefit to be gleaned on part either of the tourist or of "tourist-facing businesses."

R220 has never been to Sicily

Oooops that post R231 was meant for R229

[quote]Well it seems rather coincidental that the people in countries near Africa look like a mix of Whites and Blacks…

Well it seems that science doesn't lie.

[quote]Well it seems rather coincidental that the people in countries near Africa look like a mix of Whites and Blacks…

Sicilians look like Bernadette Peters (Bernadette Lazzara). I wouldn't call her black, would you?

Stop. Now. Please.

As much as the locals might complain, the locals are a huge part of the problem as well. There are a ton of people, who as as soon as they are able to scratch together a down payment, buy an apartment and turn it into a "Holiday Home." The locals all want to cash in on the easy money of the high turnover tourist dollar. Some can make an entire going month's rent in for days on the same place. When I was looking for a place to live in Florence Italy, I must have seen about 30 different places. You need a long term rental contract to be able to claim residency. Most places only offered at most a year and half, or month to month, or were a holiday home, or only wanted students who would be leaving in 6 months. If you walk up and down my block see you building after building with Holiday Home signs. Luckily the family who owns my apartment is an old Florentine family that only wanted long term renters. But the locals are the ones really selling out their own city. You can't do that then complain about over-tourism.

^four days...

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

I see Muriel's one-sided war with the Daily Mail is still raging.

An American teacher’s Italian holiday turned into a waking nightmare after he was knifed in the throat during a shocking broad-daylight attack on a train in Milan.

Nick Pellegrino, 29, a Staten Island-born Catholic school coach now living in San Francisco, was ambushed by two migrants while traveling through San Giuliano Milanese.

He says he narrowly escaped with his life after losing more than a liter of blood in the horrific attack on Tuesday.

The pair, believed to be North African, stabbed him in the neck with a 5-inch blade, snatched his gold crucifix and luggage, and vanished – leaving Pellegrino slumped in a pool of blood on the platform.

'With these very loose, lefty immigration laws, these immigrants come into these countries and they're running amok, trying to murder people,' he told the New York Post in a phone interview from his hospital bed. 'It's a playground for terror, for the vicious.'

'It's f**king crazy,' he added. 'I know America has a big immigration problem, but it is worse here.'

Onlookers recorded him begging for his life rather than helping him. It took 15 minutes for help to arrive.

Other countries are terrible. I agree with the victim that the violence by the immigrants is worse there than in the U.S.

I'm sure that the Italians appreciated his editorial on their immigration policies. There's nothing like being lectured to by an American on how things could be done better.

He's blaming "lefty immigration laws"? Italy's government is hardly left-wing.

I wonder what the police version of the attack on this Pellegrino is.

[quote]I'm sure that the Italians appreciated his editorial on their immigration policies. There's nothing like being lectured to by an American on how things could be done better.

The Italians sure would appreciate what he said and be in complete agreement. Lefty immigration policies are why Meloni won. Italians are sick of this shit.

....

R236, lots of measures are being taken against these Airbnb-style holiday homes that you mention. In Florence, for example, the key lockboxes that litter the place have been banned.

These "holiday homes" are not really owned by ordinary locals, though, but by companies.

[quote]I wonder what the police version of the attack on this Pellegrino is.

What are you insinuating?

R245 you think that Meloni is a lefty? You have no idea, do you? She's far right.

[quote]you think that Meloni is a lefty? You have no idea, do you? She's far right.

Bless your heart R249.

Read again what I wrote.

I wonder if anyone here knows what Meloni's immigration policies actually are.

The left allowed 10s of thousands of migrants into the country. Meloni was voted in to stop that.

The guy who was stabbed seems like a real asshole. Plus the whole part about Jesus saving his life—Pleeeezzze

[quote] The left allowed 10s of thousands of migrants into the country

That many? Wow.

R254 Because you're stupid, you'll never understand the impact even that number would have on a country of less than 60 million.

"One such turning point was the arrival of over 10,000 migrants in a single week on the island of Lampedusa last September—a number nearly double Lampedusa's tiny population of around 6,000. "

And of course the actual numbers over the years were 100s of thousands.

[quote]The guy who was stabbed seems like a real asshole. Plus the whole part about Jesus saving his life—Pleeeezzze

The asshole is you.

The migrants started as women who were mercilessly raped by ISIS. Then migrants came via boat because of civil wars and such.

Keeping them out would have been certain death for them. You can’t pretend you’re Christian and then keep out desperate people

R257 There are plenty of wealthy nearby countries that could accept them. Why Italy?

He’s kind of a cute hunk- the guy who was stabbed.

God, yes, the experience must have been horrible (though the details are vague on the assault), but he sounds like a big Mary rolling around the platform screaming I dont want to die Lord! And feeling the blood gush out with each heartbeat! Nobody does snark like the Daily Mail (which has an axe to grindrs in this story).

More importantly, i do have an photo in the same exact restaurant he is drink Aperol.

Ack R250! My apologies - I'm the one who has no idea.

[quote] but he sounds like a big Mary rolling around the platform screaming I dont want to die Lord! And feeling the blood gush out with each heartbeat!

They absolutely go from that sort of display in Sicily.

Wearing a big gold crucifix may have made him a target.

“Tourists go home”: Inside the angry protests on Spain’s holiday islands

[quote] They absolutely go from that sort of display in Sicily

This was in Milan.

The display came from the American in him, not from the Italian.

"Five countries in Europe that I would never spend another Summer..." - Luke Patrick Travel Stories

1. Croatia - too expensive

2. Spain - too hot to enjoy anything

3. Finland - too much daylight

4. Italy - too crowded

5. Belgium - bad all year around

6. Switzerland - You can't afford it

7. Austria - They're all cunts

[quote] 7. Austria - They're all cunts

Actually, most Europeans are cunts.

I haven't really met any friendly Europeans, to be perfectly honest.

Most of them are stand-offish, provincial, nationalistic, closed minded, and very far up their own asses.

There's a real "we're the best" mentality that permeates every part of Europe, which is actually very annoying.

But no doubt, even in a continent of cunts, some are at the top of the CUNTING heap.

From what I hear, Austrians, Swedes, Norwegians and Dutch are at the very top.

[quote]Actually, most Europeans are cunts.

[quote]Most of them are stand-offish, provincial, nationalistic, closed minded, and very far up their own asses.

Not my experience. Provincial? Nationalistic? "We're the best"? Where did you encounter significant numbers of people expressing those sentiments?

I’ve never encountered a European who was “nationalistic”, r270. Nor any who were as arrogant as Americans.

Even people who had met a lot of other Americans were kind to me. The “worst” treatment was just asking me over and over how anyone with a brain could vote for Dumbya.

The fuck if I know! I’d also like answers to that question.

Of course, there have been bratty kids, but they’re just bratty kids. The same all over.

R270 An American calling Europeans provincial? Funny.

Coastal, educated Americans tend not to be provincial. Unfortunately travel has become much less expensive so Europe has seen more flyover types in recent years.

This guy says that Belgium, Denmark and Luxembourg are the most unfriendly countries in Europe.

The most unfriendly place I've been has to be Sweden. I had several experiences where service staff really seemed like they didn't want to get bothered by anyone even though it's literally their job to help people. I got sighs, eye rolls and even got told to shut up.

I've had lovely times in Denmark and Sweden, the people are wonderful.

Customer service is a very cultural experience. Not everywhere is like America where a service person will jack you off just to leave a positive survey. We take customer service very seriously - and most of it is extremely fake. Most countries are not up to faking it. They take other matters like universal health care very seriously, as they should.

[quote] Customer service is a very cultural experience. Not everywhere is like America where a service person will jack you off just to leave a positive survey. We take customer service very seriously - and most of it is extremely fake. Most countries are not up to faking it. They take other matters like universal health care very seriously, as they should.

Oh, please.

In Japan, they can do both at the same time. One doesn't have to come at the expense of the other.

It takes just as much effort to be rude, than it does to be polite.

There's no excuse for being a cunt, when you work in customer service. None at all.

So get over yourselves.

Austrians - like most Europeans - are only really cunty to people who never bother to learn the basics of their language. How many of you even know what language they speak in Austria?

I would bet my mama's fart meds that all of you dicks who think Europeans are rude have interacted with them solely in English.

r280 Austrians are just cunts. Period. It has nothing to do with language.

[quote]The most unfriendly place I've been has to be Sweden. I had several experiences where service staff really seemed like they didn't want to get bothered by anyone even though it's literally their job to help people. I got sighs, eye rolls and even got told to shut up.

I found the staff at restaurants, hotels, shops, bars, and museums in Sweden very helpful and nice, without exception.

I never put too much trust in the opinions on national or local courtesy and habits unless the opinion is from someone who has travelled a lot and also spent a lot of time in the city or country in question. It's too easy for reviewers to simply rehash old saws.

[quote] Austrians are just cunts.

True. The Sound of Music was a whitewash. Herr Zeller is closer to the truth. Also, look at how they tried to keep Klimt’s portrait of Adele Bloch-Bauer.

Maybe it's you, not them, R270.

Ever considered that?

R2 nailed it. Last year I did a Europe trip in some random week in October, it was fine. Don't go to popular tourists destinations in the summer or you will be surrounded by other tourists.

From what you hear, R270 - so you haven't actually visited Austria, Sweden, Norway or the Netherlands to form your opinion that they are all cunts?

R279 you prove my point. Different culture, different experience. But I never said it was impossible. My point is different countries place different value on customer service. And if you think you’re going get the same treatment in America everywhere else, you’re in for a disappointment. Britain is notorious for their horrible customer service.

Just stay home.

[Quote] The Sound of Music was a whitewash.

Apparently the real Maria was a cunt. She owned a ski resort in New England and many say she was a total cunt

I don’t care how the natives act. How often do you even come in contact with them except when you’re buying something

r289 I've heard that as well. I know people who had dealings with her back in the day and they all said she was a nasty old bitch.

I see - so because one person was not particularly pleasant, the entire population of Austria is awful?

You're not especially bright, are you, R289?

r292 dear, I've been to Austria several times. Believe me, they're cunts.

Germans, on the other hand, have been lovely in my experience. I've also been all over Germany several times and they couldn't have been lovelier to me.

BTW German men are FREAKS in bed. Surprisingly sensual.

R293 Ach, aber du kommst nicht aus Österreich! Sie können Ihr Gesicht nicht von Hundekot unterscheiden!

Blöder Amerikaner!

What r295 wrote:

"Oh, but you're not from Austria! They can't tell your face from dog poop!

Stupid American!"

CHARMING.

R296 Don't blame me for saying it. Blame yourself for BEING it.

In almost every case, when a European is rude to an American tourist, it's because the American started it by being boorish, crude, or just a lousy guest. Too many fanny-pack assholes treat Europe like some fucking theme park. But it's someone's home, with cultures and histories dating back thousands of years. Those aren't Disney employees you're insulting. They're ordinary Europeans, and you're a guest in their town.

[quote] Too many fanny-pack assholes treat Europe like some fucking theme park

But the whole world IS our theme park!

Like the "It's A Small World" ride at Disneyland!

r297 I can assure you I am none of those things.

What's interesting is that there's such a stereotype of what an American tourist is from so many of you. Yes, the provincial American rube tourists in fanny packs are certainly numerous, but there are also many American tourists who are polite, cultured, respectful and educated. It really says a lot about you that you only encounter the rube Americans.

R299 I'm not European. I'm an American who spends a lot of time in Europe.

R293 it's always funny when some old American queen is come undone - they always resort to calling someone "dear". Why is that? Did mommy teach you that?

Americans looking to relocate.

The only two places where people have consistently been rude to the point of making generalizations are Paris and Barcelona. By people i mean restaurants, shops and hotel staff, who job is just to provide good service and be cicil.

[quite]Yes, the provincial American rube tourists in fanny packs are certainly numerous, but there are also many American tourists who are polite, cultured, respectful and educated.

The later go unnoticed because they don't draw attention to themselves. The former can't help but draw attention, decked out in clownish shorts and super casual clothes and floppy hats and giant white sneakers, totting huge water bottles. They often announce make loud announcements as though they were the soul guests at a wax museum, observing how everything is so funny and odd and different.

Of course it's natural to draw comparisons between your own experience and the place to which you've traveled, but the score keeping gets absurd sometimes, as though it's the strangest thing in the goddamned world that coffee shops don't open at 6 in the morning, or that they don't serve coffee in giant mugs. It's not really observation, it's the constant totting up of scores.

Very few Europeans routinely assume all American travellers are idiots and clowns, but they have see enough of the range of American tourists to recognize the loud, clownish sort. Even then, I have almost never see anyone be demonstrably bad or impolite to tourists; on rarest occasion direct or short maybe (after answering a question well and repeatedly).

No one expects Americans to have be fluent in the language of every country they visit or for their clothing to blend in perfectly or for them to know a great deal about another nation's history. They don't expect that a tourist will never have a dumb question; I think people in most places are sympathetic to pointing someone in the right direction or explains how a menu works.

The loutish Americans though cry for attention more than help, they want someone to listen to their story about Cowlick, Minnesota and its Dairy Queen with the soft serve ice cream and do they have soft-serve in Lisbon?. Who gives a fuck, unless you're in the midst of a long mutual conversation?

R304 How’s the day drinking coming, dear? 😘

Girls girls! You're all uncultured, provincial cunts!!

I’ve been all over Europe and never found any group particularly rude. Even in Paris, I was baffled why Americans call Parisians rude