The Gilded Age Season 3 Viewing Thread: Part 2

That episode moved like molasses.

So disappointing after last week's good episode.

The only thing fun was more Ada vs Agnes sniping. And, Alarm Clock Jack. And, some gorgeous costumes.

And, I really, really do not need to see ANY more plotlines involving the Russell servants.

Just. Do. Not. Give. A. Fuck.

Some old queen on the Gilded Age Facebook group proposed that Anderson Cooper have a role in the upcoming episode. When virtually no one wanted that, he started interrogating them and called them stupid.

I just know he’s a member here.

In some ways the trailers were better than the episode. The wedding happened and the only interesting points were the nasty sisters of Bertha and the Duke.

Aunt Monica did Gladys no favors with her new sister-in-law by putting in her head that Gladys might kick her out.

Now that alarm clock Jack has almost as much money as Aunt Ada, he’s a good match for Marian monetarily if in no other way.

If my sister invited me to her daughter’s big wedding at the last minute, I’m afraid I should find myself otherwise engaged.

Is Larry really a cad?

If Larry is a cad, they’ve given us no hint.

I was really expecting to see Aunt Monica entering the church in Bertha's dress with big side panels of a contrasting fabric. Otherwise, how the hell would she fit into one of Bertha's castaways?

Also, half expecting to hear a chorus of nuns singing "How do you solve a problem like Gladys?" as she marched down the aisle.

Dreadfully written episode considering all the stakes.

Of course, the logical path now for AC Jack would be to open his own shop/lab and invent other things. And with his money and success and good looks he'd have no trouble acquire a wife and new friends. I don't see why we should be worried about him even if he only gets half of the $600,000, a huge sum in the 1880s.

That scene between the chef and the housekeeper was beyond lame and unnecessary. Sudden high drama from two minor characters we've never been lead to care about.

The Russell’s chef is the most unconvincing character on the show. He barely touches the food, never talks about it, and now only uses his giant mouth to seduce the tiny housekeeper. They both sound too monotonous as well, like they don’t believe the lines they’re speaking.

Can you blame them, r11? I wonder that about most of the actors in the show.

Well, it's a pay check and you get to hang around with each other.

I don't know ElderLez/r4.

He was my footman, and now he's my husband! Isn't that fun!!

No, it's kind of weird and annoying, actually. Honestly, we don't know how to treat you, so I think we'll just avoid you.

The trailer suggests that Bertha gives Oscar a large sum of money to invest. You in danger big Bertha.

Monetarily only for sure R13!

I've seen Morgan Spector on stage, but he never looked as good as he does in GA.

I’d like to see his dick in my mouth.

Farmiga's daughter is even homelier than she is.

They’re actually sisters.

Gladys is 30. Divorced. In real life.

This all takes place in the 1880's? So was there a financial crisis with lots of bank failures?

There were frequent financial panics. That’s why they invented the Federal Reserve in 1913

Jack's share was $300,000 in the 1880s.

In 2025 that amount would be close to $10 million dollars.

Panic of 1893

It Trump told us that era was the greatest economic period in our history, until he came along. Tariffs and wealth for everyone!

I’d loved to meet any of his h.s. teachers…

[QUOTE] Farmiga's daughter is even homelier than she is.

Taissa Farmiga has a daughter?

Hector is much better-looking than Gladys, something I’d like at least someone to mention on the show. She’s in a looks-discordant relationship and is now going to be dicked down by someone who is out of her league, looks-wise. Farmiga is not an attractive woman (unlike her older sister who has an inherent sexiness).

The poster assumed Taissa was actress Vera Famiga’s daughter, but they are sisters with a 20+ year age difference.

Has it ever been explained to us what was so special about AC Jack's clock patent to be deserving of $600,000?

friction, pallets, something about rollers.

Oh honestly who cares r28. We're in the money!

R27 $

So, is that it for Merritt Wever's Aunt Monica? Finally a fun character (even without ANY background buildup) and I believe she's done.

Hopefully, r31, but honestly, relatives have a habit of lingering, like a bad stain.

I want some picture of Bertha’s pre-Russell life from Monica. I want Monica to drop at least a little tea.

I thought it would be interesting to insert pieces of Consuelo Vanderbilt's real-life description of her impending marriage to the Duke of Marlborough here. Even though they both were in love with others, the marriage was by then a fait accompli and his proposal took place in Newport.

"It was in the comparative quiet of an evening at home that Marlborough proposed to me in the Gothic Room, whose atmosphere was so propitious to sacrifice. There was no need for sentiment. I was content with his pious hope that he would make me a good husband and ran up to my mother with word of our engagement. There was no time for thought or for regrets. The next day the news was out, and a few days later Marlborough departed to see something of a country he even then announced he would never revisit. There was in his sarcastic comments on all things American an arrogance that inclined me to view his decision with approval. When I broke the news of our engagement to my brothers, Harold observed, "he is only marrying you for your money," and with this last slap to my pride I burst into tears. It was obvious they would have preferred me to marry a compatriot, but unable to speak of the emotional turmoil I had so recently experienced I could not enlighten them.

"Ordering my trousseau, always an exciting event in a girl's life, proved of slight interest since I had very little to say about it, my mother not troubling to consult the taste she claimed I did not possess. The marriage settlements gave rise to considerable discussion. An English solicitor had crossed the seas with the declared intention of "profiting the illustrious family" he had been engaged to serve devoted a natural talent to that end. Finally the settlements were apportioned in equal shares at my request.

"As the wedding approached there came presents My mother had forbidden me to receive any gifts from my Vanderbilt relatives and I felt hurt and pained when I was made to return them without excuse or thanks. My grandmother was the only Vanderbilt whom I was allowed to visit, and the only one invited to my wedding, but she naturally refused to come to the ceremony from which her entire family was excluded.

"I sent the morning of my wedding day in tears and alone; no one came near me. A footman had been posted at the door of my apartment and not even my governess was admitted. Like an automaton I donned the lovely lingerie with its real lace and the white silk stockings and shoes. My maid helped me into the beautiful dress, its tiers of Brussels lace cascading over white satin. A bouquet of orchids that was to come from [the Duke's estate] Blenheim did not arrive in time. I felt cold and numb as I went down to meet my father and the bridesmaids who were waiting for me. My mother had decreed that my father should accompany me to the church to give me away. After that he was to disappear [as her parents were now divorced]. We were twenty minutes late, for my eyes, swollen with the tears I had wept required copious sponging before I could face the curious stares that always greet a bride.

"As I followed my lovely bridesmaids I remembered to press my father's arm gently to slow his step. Marlborough, with the best man, his cousin Ivor Guest, was waiting for us. The usual hymns glorifying perfect love were sung and, when I glanced at my husband shyly I saw that his eyes were fixed in space. "

[quote] ...homelier...

Taissa with modern-day hair and makeup is a nice enough looking woman.

If you say so, R35.

Stop picking on Taissa!

She's not and never been presented on the show has being a world-class beauty.

They wanted Twink Clock’s patent because he invented the alarm clock and it doesn’t require any oil to work.

I hope Jack keeps Oscar away from his money.

I think Taissa is very pretty in an unconventional way. She's unique.

Can you imagine two vultures getting together like Mrs. Fish and Mrs. Winterton? OMG.

I'm definitely upset with Bertha. Disliking her more and more. But she did say one true thing which makes her driving ambitions seem less superficial and driven by vanity. She said there was a direct connection between Social status and Business interests. She was right. George knew it too. However. If my finances were as thin as George's seem to be in this gamble he is taking with the railroad, and then he is on the the front pages for the opulent wedding of his daughter to the Duke, I would not loan him a cent if I was a bank. Nor would I as an investor want to give him money as he squanders it away on his/his wife's extravagant tastes.

R1 I agree. Episode 3 was really good, probably the best of the season. Episode 4... not so much.

R10 and R11 I agree. What was the point of that scene? Two minor characters I don't really care about.

If this show doesn't win the emmy for costume design then I don't know what.

I cannot believe they cut from the sad wedding to the ship. BAH! So many opportunities for fresh interactions at the reception/party. Gladys freezing out Bertha. Larry taking note. Auntie M stirring it up. Bertha forcing her son on an heiress while Brooke watches. Mrs. Fish and Nathan Lane's character gossiping. Oscar picking a waiter. So many lost opportunities.

Who is Brooke, R45?

Brooke Astor—duh

Julian basically stole the whole thing from Consuelo. On more injury for the poor thing.

We were also told that previous alarm clocks were unreliable.

[quote] Nor would I as an investor want to give him money as he squanders it away on his/his wife's extravagant tastes.

You don’t loan money to Russell personally. You invest it in a business enterprise which has its own finances . It is separate from his personal assets, even if he controls it or owns it.

R50 I would be concerned that his extravagant lifestyle put him in debt. If he has to go into debt, get a loan, to finance his lifestyle, the debt load would make him a bad business risk. But what do I know.

[QUOTE] Brooke Astor—duh

Why would Brooke Astor — someone who wasn’t born until 1902, mind you — be at a wedding reception taking place in 1883?

Don’t come for me, bitch.

Again: who is “Brooke”?

I once met Consuelo Vanderbilt, and yes, I may have made a few false assumptions and even a few faux pas.

But come on, Consuelo is a boy's name, isn't it?

Oooh! A love a good cat fight.

Caroline! Come here. You won’t want to miss this!

Alva had a best friend, a woman named Consuelo and she named her daughter after her best friend. Alva was Southern. The wedding invite HBO pictured was for 1884.

Didn't Brooke inherit a ton of railroad certificates when her dad died? That could be a pot point in her new Russell relations.

The character’s name is Marian Brook. Not “Brooke.”

She WILL BE. Brooke Astor.

Which Astor was on the Titanic? Was it Agnes's friend Lina's invisible hubby?

Nevermind. I just learned that John Jacob Astor IV who died on the Titanic, was the son of the Mrs. Astor in Gilded Age.

Sad episode, really.

The wedding dress was beautiful, if a little overwrought.

Some of the flowers were a bit much. But they had to fill her out in some way, I suppose. She has no womanly body.

I presume everybody will change for the reception?

Happy for Jack. That poor woman, nutty husband and all.

The Duke behaved well towards Gladys.

Alva Vanderbilt has the face of a junkyard bulldog

Alva Vanderbilt or J. Edgar Hoover?

[QUOTE] I presume everybody will change for the reception?

There isn’t going to be a wedding reception portrayed on the show. We already saw Gladys and Hector on their wedding night at the end of last night’s episode.

People, try to remember that this is fiction, based VERY loosely on historical characters.

Pics please r65.

Hey, it's the 1880s. There ain't a lot of options for "candids"!

But did the wedding have a cash bar?

I think they probably blew the budget on the flowers and such for the wedding and couldn’t afford to also show us an over the top reception location. Shame, that. I would have liked to have seen more of Monica.

I knew the Duke wasn't royal ("noble, not royal" per Bertha).

Me, from the other thread, in response to a poster who clearly doesn't understand the difference.

Thank you Bertha for clarifying that point.

The view from the cabin looked quite chintzy as well.

It's sweet that people are worried about Jack losing his money. Things haven't changed much for the working class in this country (most Americans are never going to be a millionaire).

[quote]The Russell’s chef is the most unconvincing character on the show. He barely touches the food, never talks about it...

He's no Mrs. Patmore, that's for damn sure !

But there is something rather attractive about him.

Yes, R65. I realized that after I had written my post about it.

So then I didn’t completely like the church outfit Bertha was wearing. She has worn better for afternoon tea!

I did love Agnes’ purple number. Just stunning.

It was a mistake not to show the wedding reception or at least make the entire wedding an entire episode.

R75 That would have been way too costly for the production. They would have blown the whole budget for the rest of the season.

I read somewhere that 1,000 people were invited to the church. So if there was any kind of reception I doubt it would include all 1,000. I also think that since this happened in the afternoon, there was probably a late breakfast served for the wedding party and an intimate group of guests before the ceremony. In any case I think a a champagne toast was all anyone could expect. After all. They're not Italians.

According to Google:

Based on historical records and descriptions, a society wedding feast in 1884 could have included: Cold Meats: Roast game, poultry, ham, tongues, potted meats. Seafood: Lobster salads, chicken and fish à la Mayonnaise, oysters or clams depending on the season. Pastries and Puddings: Italian creams, various cold sweets, cakes, and iced desserts like sherbet or ice cream. Savories: Game pies, savory jellies. Drinks: Tea, coffee, and wines were common.

I just cannot see the Russells attempting to feed 1,000 people so maybe they had a separate list for the reception.

Meh, just a few cold cuts, a little bread, a buffet, it's all doable. At least back in Albany. Oh well.

Oh, and I did suggest a cash bar to defray expenses, but my lord, the looks from Bertha and the Duke's sister, well, I wouldn't want to see that again, let me tell you.

It was also odd that having no plans to show a reception, they had the scene with the chef tending to all of the food he had prepared.

Was $600,000 realistic in that age? It seemed like an astronomical number for a patent in 1893.

fish à la Mayonnaise? Barf

The episode could have been much better---a full reception, with lots of gossip and spectacle. They could have saved Gladys' deflowering for another episode.

Sometimes it's the budget. If they'd had a scene with a full blown reception with hundreds of extras milling around plus cast members with speaking parts, plus the sets, it would have cost a fortune. They had to make a choice. . I suspect there will be other lavish scenes in future episodes. They had their big scene at the church. It was very dramatic. Mrs Fish and the former Lady's maid showed their propensity for pettiness and gossip and we saw the cracks in Mrs. Astor's facade. There would have been just more of the same. So the reception was redundant.

Nice photoshoot

Jacobson looks strikingly like her mom in some of those photos.

Everybody looks great. Don’t like what Denée is wearing, tho.

Everything you want to know about shooting this episode

“You can have the reception scenes, or the subtle, nuanced Andrea Martin. Decide..”

Why does Oscar never have anything to do?

I think Gladys was very good in the scenes with the duke. She claims she is sad because she wants to marry for love, yet every time Bertha reminds her what she will get from this marriage, she smiles. It's obvious she actually wants this deep inside.

The actress is quoted as playing Gladys as if she always knew that in the end her duty would call—the intransigence was for effect.

[quote] Two minor characters I don't really care about.

Fellows did this with Anna and Bates on Downton Abbey. No one I knew GAF about these dull characters but Fellows just kept putting their drama front and centre.

Anna and Bates were used often and sometimes unwisely. But I have to say that I will never forget Anna’s rape scene and how inevitable and scary it was for her and the audience. It something that has been seared into my memory? Particularly when the man slaps her before raping her.

R83 see R76

Except Anna and Bates were well-established within the first few episodes as characters with personalities and back stories. Not so the fat chef and mousey housekeeper.

In Downton, Anna and Bates were my least favorite storyline, although I didn't mind Anna on her own. But Julian Fellowes managed to really flesh out the downstairs staff. Mrs. Hughes and Carson. Tom Barrow. O'Brien, and her bar of soap, and the seamstress who rescued the ridiculously sad Mr. Molesley. Dr. Carson may have been a second tier character but we knew him. And Mrs. Patmore and Daisy. Not to mention the scandalous footman Tom Barrow had a crush on. And I loved the lady's maid and butler who worked in the Dower House.

How ironic that the wedding was actually filmed in Albany.

The wedding was beautifully lit. I really enjoyed observing all the older costumes that are no longer relevant today, like white bridesmaids dresses, and only greenery along the aisle. Larry's weeding attire made him look like a dweeb.

Wever gave the Coonster a run for her money. You can't but love her, she has such a delightful wholesome presence.

Clock Twink saying he wanted to continue working as a servant was such a wish fulfilment moment from Fellows, implying all servants in actuality really do enjoy working for their masters. I also hated how Larry took half of the buyout. Fucking rich people, man.

I love Bertha's affected way of saying "romance" the way that's reserved for "Romance languages" today, with emphasis on the second syllable. I did not love her telling the servants to help out whenever they can. Give them a raise or hire more people, lady.

The gorgeous painting behind Peggy during her speech was Fitz Henry Lane, surely? Those soothing soft pastels made me swoon.

Even though it was blurry, I loved the reactions to Gladys' sad face when she was walking down the aisle. Bertha was the only one smiling.

This might have been posted already, but Ahlers will be acting opposite Meloni soon.

r97 That was so good. I also loved the fade-out on Gladys' face at the end, so sad.

RO-mance is perfectly acceptable in the languages context.

That Morgan is not straight, is he? He's so hot in these promotional photos in modern high fashion, but no 100% straight man poses like that. And it doesn't quite cross into Walton Goggins parody territory, but almost.

So true r94. It's like Uncle Julian's ability to deal with servant stories completely evaporated when he crossed the Atlantic. And there's so much potential there, precisely because of the difference between England and America. In Britain, certainly then, you're just born into a class and you deal with it. America has this whole other level of being technically all equal (ha, but still that's the dream) and you're supposed to be upwardly mobile and all that. It creates these obvious tensions.

I love Alarm Clock Jack, but the truth is he'd work just as well as a clerk in Mr. Russell's office, who finally gets to show he's something more.

I'll take Ginger any day over some of Ru's other pets, like Mistress, Kandy, Jorgeous and Gottmik

R103 Jesus Bertha, give it a rest!

You go gurl!

Rashad is bringing alot to the show this season and I can't wait to see Leslie Uggams.

Rashad is bring high cunt and I’m totally here for it. I love the AA storyline this season. It’s surprisingly nuanced.

r101 He's straight, he just knows he's hot, that's why he poses that way. I've read on Reddit once he was a notorious pussy hound in college, his dorm room pretty much had a revolving door for the fraus.

The J. P. Morgan actor made me laugh chewing the scenery in Russell's office. "This is developing into a full grown PANIC! I'm spiting all over your office once per sentence for emphasis! Wake UP man! Can't you contrast my mood from my single previous scene on the show!? This is SERIOUS BUSINESS STUFF! MONEY PROBLEMS!" lol

Are we absolutely certain that Taissa Farmiga is Vera Farmiga’s sister?

^spitting

R110, Taissa is her daughter AND her sister…

I thought Farmigas are of Ukrainian, not Appalachian descent, R112.

Ask your doctor if Farmiga is right for you.

R113 Sigh, typical "new" DL poster.

R113 - Mrs Fish

Farmiga was raised Pentacostal. Her parents converted from Eastern Orthodox. She probably knows a lot about crazy.

If she only knew what to do with it...

Those of you enjoying the new AA storylines - you don't feel it's compromised by the ridiculous interchangeable candy-colored dresses and hats the characters are constantly wearing? I'm not saying they need to be in grey rags, I get that they're wealthy and of an upwardly mobile class, but a little reality there would be welcome.

This is an example of why The Gilded Age has never won any Emmys for Costume Design.

And if they dressed them in more somber, dull, subdued, sober, austere, really, pick an adjective, clothes we would be complaining that they weren’t dressed as magnificently as the white people, with their colors and fabulous silks and patterns.

Why wouldn’t they dress wonderfully? They certainly had the means to do it. The clothiers for the community, presumably, had access to the same patterns and textiles that others had. 🤷🏻‍♀️

R119, you seem like a stealth…something. Nice attempt to start something. We don’t take that kind of bait on these threads. I’m sure you’re more successful in other threads.

It may interest you to know that many top dressmakers of the day were African American. Mary Todd Lincoln's is one of the notables. in the late 1860's she continued to dress society matrons. And Jackie Kennedy's wedding dress was designed and made by a well established African American designer. So the women who are dressing the AA high society ladies are also probably dressing some of the Park Avenue crowd. A well known "secret." One of the producers of Gilded Age is an African Professor of African American History based at Emory University in Atlanta. If you watch the after show comments you will see her.

R88, I think Gladys smiles because she’s spent her whole life mirroring her mother. Her only purpose is to be what Bertha wants her to be. Her own father won’t stand up for her. When she struggles to tell her new husband that she’s frightened about sex and won’t mind putting it off for the night, he doesn’t pay any attention because no one ever pays attention to what she says.

Well, Gladys has that huge chunk of cash she controls, Lady Sarah Cuntchill and the Dewk have to be nice to Glad. If Glad gives birth to some sons, the Dewk and his cold fish sister are fucked. Pity Lady Sarah Cuntchill couldn't look for her own rich geezer, like Bertha's maid.

Actually, I was a little unclear on that r124. So did the Duke get a big chunk of money for marrying her, but also she gets a lot on top of that, so that she isn't completely at his mercy? Wasn't sure what exactly happened in that meeting.

It’s called a dowry. 🥺

yes, thank you r126, what exactly was the dowry arrangement?

The bride’s family pays the groom a sum.

Anyone know what Mr. Russell decided to give to the Duke and Gladys? Anyone have an idea of the specifics? What was the arrangement?

[quote] Hector is much better-looking than Gladys, something I’d like at least someone to mention on the show. She’s in a looks-discordant relationship and is now going to be dicked down by someone who is out of her league, looks-wise.

Honey, this isn't Fire Island, or your high school.

Try to grow up a little.

[quote] So did the Duke get a big chunk of money for marrying her, but also she gets a lot on top of that, so that she isn't completely at his mercy? Wasn't sure what exactly happened in that meeting.

The Duke received a large dowry from George. They've not said how much it is on the show, but the real life inspiration for the marriage on the show was the wedding of Consuelo Vanderbilt to the Duke of Marlborough in 1895. In that marriage, the Duke was given a dowry from William K. Vanderbilt of $2.5 million, which in today's dollars would be the equivalent of nearly $100 million.

George had given Gladys quite a lot of money on top of that for her own. the Duke of Buckingham wanted the money for himself, but Bertha told him they would share the money--what's Gladys's is the Duke's, in a theoretically happy marriage. However, in actuality the Uk passed the Married Women's Property Act in 1882 (before the wedding on the show takes place), so Gladys actually owns that money given to her by her father outright. if she and the Duke divorce, it is hers. But George would never get the dowry back.,

thanks r131.

Panic over money never gets old, never fails to entertain. Gotta have leverage over others. We're such a basic ass species.

I fear that the writers will have Jack Clock Twink somehow lose his money through some shady investments or gambling it all away. I guess he could invent more.

Well, hopefully he's not quite that ridiculously stupid r134.

[QUOTE] Honey, this isn't Fire Island, or your high school. Try to grow up a little.

Your trollina is showing dear. You type uggo.

Carrie Coon scored an Emmy nomination for White Lotus.

I think she’ll win, R137. Her monologue in the season finale was exquisite.

And once again The Gilded Age isn't even nominated for Best Costume Design, r120, r121, r122.

I think the white women are dressed ridiculously, too. It's fine to take liberties with the period but this designer is way out of control.

Nope—not even close.

Katherine LaNasa

Alarm clock Jack needs to watch himself around Oscar. Oscar will be drawn to him....

Believe it or not, IRL Oscar is married to the actress who plays the Duke's sister. And they have 3 kids!!!

Okay, I can't say I'm totally shocked r142. But I have to ask, are there any actual gay actors on this very gay, gay, gay show, or as usual is it all straight people but the occasional storyline?

Doug Sills is way gay

[quote] But I have to ask, are there any actual gay actors on this very gay, gay, gay show, or as usual is it all straight people but the occasional storyline?

Not a one.

So a couple of old queens and lesbos. Well, okay, I guess that's what we get.

Well, so be it. But you know what, can we at least delve a little more into the actual gay relationship between Oscar and John Adams? And the gay world that did in fact exist in New York, even in the 1880s.

I am way more worried about Larry than I am about Oscar. Oscar needs to make good. He is digging himself out of a catastrophe. Larry is feeling very pleased with himself for having used Jack to grab $300,000 . I know Larry was able to open doors and put Jack's invention in front of potential investors Jack had no way of getting to. But now, he has Jack's trust and his admiration. And if Larry tells jack he is onto some other good deal, Jack will listen. After all. $300,000 is a lot of money in 1884. In f act, I have to wonder if Larry may want to help dad out by investing in his railroad dream?? If I were advising Jack, I would tell him to save 2/3 of the money...not in a bank, and use the other 1/3 to set himself up in a studio where he can experiment and invent other stuff. Jack has a very good mind and he likes to tinker.

R147vhere. Jack could easily subsist on $900 a year for himself to live off of while setting up his own studio. Interesting. I wonder if at some point George Russell will find something Jack can do for him.

I hope Jack manages to hold on to his money, but I'm just not buying this whole idea that he has been horribly cheated because he ONLY got $300,000, an enormous sum in those days as everybody acknowledges. And really, I think it's clear that without Larry, Jack would have wound up with much, much less. I suspect he was ready to settle for $600 and was pretty shocked when that wasn't what Larry was talking about.

Yeah, I hate that they’re gonna take all of Jacks money away somehow.

Easy come, easy go. That idiot Larry will probably have something to do with that. Or the equally idiotic, vainglorious Oscar.

It sucks.

Don’t go there, show, please.

I remember the Duke's sister from the live action Beauty and the Beast remake. She played the Enchantress and I thought she was quite beautiful.

[quote]And once again The Gilded Age isn't even nominated for Best Costume Design

Maybe because its not eligible for this past season ? That would do it.

Some of the items that they are wearing are actual vintage pieces like the purple bathrobe Bertha wears the the night before the wedding.

[quote] I wonder if at some point George Russell will find something Jack can do for him.

Or vice versa.

FrockFlicks has done a number of write-ups about The Gilded Age. This one is a review of how clothes are used to express individual characters. While many "interpretive" choices were made the real gowns of that era were often garish and ugly.

I can pretty much guarantee that any time a gown shows up on the show looking authentically period, it's from a rental house and not designed for the series.

I will say I was disappointed in Bertha's wedding attire. I expected so much more from her.

I looked up bustles and apparently we will have to put up with them for a while longer. I just do not get it.

r157 Co-sign everything you wrote. I actually laughed out loud when Agnes/Ada told Marian she looked beautiful, when her rear looked like a baboon's ass in that bustle! I guess things look more and more alien and inexplicable to us, the further back we go in time.

[quote] when her rear looked like a baboon's ass in that bustle!

I will not be truly happy unless I live to hear Mrs. Fish say that about somebody.

Bustles didn't disappear until 1889-1890. Their shape changed considerably from year to year, beginning in the early 1870s.

Do the Bustle! Hit Parade of 1884

Bring back the bustle!

Christine Baranski will be sitting in The Elms of Newport on August 7 as a guest to 'have a conversation' about The Gilded Age (the lecture is already sold out). It's being described this way:

"During our conversation, we will learn about Baranski’s connection to the real Gilded Age, as well as what it is like to play the character of Agnes, a strong New York matriarch with a sharp wit. The discussion will also include highlights of Baranski’s career and her thoughts on the importance of the arts."

Last week, at Marble House, actor Sam Waterson was the guest to 'have a conversation' about the 50th Anniversary of the movie 'The Great Gatsby', which also celebrated the centennial anniversary of the novel.

[quote] "During our conversation, we will learn about Baranski’s connection to the real Gilded Age, as well as what it is like to play the character of Agnes, a strong New York matriarch with a sharp wit. The discussion will also include highlights of Baranski’s career and her thoughts on the importance of the arts."

"Looking back, I sure have played a lot of piss-and-vinegar-y bitches. And, the arts are really important. The End."

R164 Can't stop laughing !

Although at this point, she may end with:

"How many of you here were shocked to learn my fabulous co-star Audra MacDonald's revival of 'Gypsy' is closing much sooner than planned ? Raise your hand....okay, looks like no one. I saw it and it was horrible. On a brighter note, I'm sure she'll be here in a couple of weeks to be a guest since she has this big gap in her schedule from now through Columbus Day. Please, be gentle with her. She has a fragile ego."

[quote] Clock Twink saying he wanted to continue working as a servant was such a wish fulfilment moment from Fellows, implying all servants in actuality really do enjoy working for their masters.

I wonder if Fellowes will ever realise that servants don't generally like or even respect their masters. If he ever does, it'll be a bit of a "Santa isn't real" moment.

Well the guy said he never had a home or a family before and this was t he closest he had to that. I get that. He is facing a huge transition. I think he would be wise to take it slow and educate himself about money and business. And no, neither Oscar or Larry are reliable. I would ask the footman guy who is leaving service to go back to his wealthy daughter. He needs common sense advice too.

[quote]I wonder if Fellowes will ever realise that servants don't generally like or even respect their masters. If he ever does, it'll be a bit of a "Santa isn't real" moment.

That's one of (the many) things that made Gosford Park so brilliant: the way the servants gossiped about & privately trashed the upstairs people, like they were forced to deal with a bunch of overgrown babies

Let us not forget that the basic story was by Robert Altman and Bob Balaban, with Fellowes just a co-screenwriter with Altman.

I like the inherent contempt of the Upstairs when servants licked the silver in Gosford Park.

But looking at it from another point of view, it was a generational thing too, with the servants. The older servants seemed grateful to be in America, in NYC, with food and lodging and a modest allowance. Most of them, not all, were uneducated, probably illiterate. Jack represented the aspirational, adventurous younger generation. He was smart. Even the former Lady's Maid, Mrs. Winterton, wanted more. I thought Fellowes did romanticize the servant class, but he also was showing that they were not all of one mind. Some resented the upstairs people and gossiped about them, others didn't want to "get above themselves" and then there were those who intended to figure out a way to move up in t he world. Jack's a funny sort. I think when he first started tinkering with his clock, he never imagined he'd become a wealthy inventor. Bet it didn't even cross his mind. He just wanted the clock to work.

We're at the 'midway' point of this season - episode 4 out of 8. Remember when network TV would air 8 episodes of a show and call it a 'miniseries' (not a TV series) ? Shrinkflation has even hit television !

My husband and I have developed a bad haircut of saying “cock” every time mentions a clock while watching the show.

^ or habit even

Excuse my French

What this show gets totally wrong is that servants at this time worked all the time, it was a very hard life. None of the servants in this seem to even break a sweat.

R176 If you paid attention, you would have heard Alarm Clock Jack tell Oscar he has a sweaty ballsac.

I imagine Oscar breaking the 4th wall to look at the camera with a smirk after hearing R177.

I imagine Oscar breaking the 4th wall to look at the camera with a smirk after presenting hole...

And the character Oscar and Lady Sarah are married IRL?

Too lazy to look - when are new episodes released?

I loved the moment of Bertha, mother of a Duchess, talking with food in her mouth.

R181, 9 pm Eastern time.

R181 now

Poor Gladys, stuck in dreary England with its lack of electricity, mouse infestations, and crappy soup. Imagine leaving behind Gilded Age New York for this shit!

I thought this was another great episode. Again, they squeezed in alot but it never dragged. George is over it!

The costumes and cinematography are first rate.

I like this series QUITE a lot. Fuck the haters

Mr, Merrick---engaged once, but it didn't work out. I wonder if he's a friends of John Adams.

The Duke's sister seems intent on destroying Gladys. She seems quite odd in her intense relationship with her brother.

Larry knows about "men, if you fancy".

I wonder if the spirit medium will become a regular. I half expect Andrea Martin to burst into some sort of song parody.

Bertha looks like a penguin in Newport. Aurora sems like the only one not in a shade of white.

Lots of foreshadowing---Maud Beaton's re-appearance, George's confrontation and threat, Agnes' interest in Jack's fortune, and the secret about Larry that we had been promised the Streeplet would learn this week.

We heard last episode Enid Turner Winterton's husband is dying. I wonder if she'll be interested in trying again for George Russell?

I feel a season of ACUTE MALONCOLIA coming on

Macolonia

R190, If she inherits Winterton's fortune,, she can bring a nice dowery to George. Bertha will be absolutely apoplectic.

Dowary?

Doughry?

Dowry!

Poor Aurora. Kelli O'Hara is quite good.

I think Bertha's maid is the spy.

Who ever it is knows about Mr. Russell's business plans too. So I think it might be the housekeeper.

R197. Good point. She said her husband has 'the means' to pay for his lengthy stay in the Looney bin. But does he?

After last week's Hymen Sacrifice, this was a nice set-up for the end of season cliffhanger.

It seems that Lady Cunt is unaware of the financial agreement and financial power that Gladys has regarding the estate.

Maude Beaton has returned, and when people return in a Baron Fellowes of West Stafford DL written the return as supercharged plot devices. I stand by my prediction that Agnes gets her money back in the final episode or the first episode of Season 4

I'm still very deeply worried about AC Jack. I have a bad feeling that he is going to be parted from his money. It is the equivalent of about $10 Million in today's money.

Why did George tell Bertha he would not be there when she returned from England? It seems to me if he was pissed off about the situation, Bertha's willingness to go over there and support her daughter would have eased his mind.

Loved the look of terror on Bertha's face at the end. She knows if George divorced her she's finished. Move over, Aurora.

So happy the bitch Bertha finally got her comeuppance. That's what happens when you ruin your daughter's life. Good riddance bitch.

Is alarm clock Jack gay now? He seemed intrigued with the drag queen. Maybe he'll hook up with Oscar?

R189 That was refreshing. At least he isn't a bigot. He is quite accepting of alternative lifestyles, as they were back then.

R186 I agree. Much better episode than the previous one.

Morgan Spector is so sexy

Does Morgan do a lot of voiceover work? His voice is very distinctive; sounds like I've heard it elsewhere before and I've only even seen him on this show.

Fortune was ready to throw it all away for love, ready to pry his way right in lol! Great messy scene. Peggy and the doctor handled it well.

The last scene with Bertha was my favorite so far in the entire series. The sheer terror on her face was worth it.

[quote] I like this series QUITE a lot. Fuck the haters

In fairness, it has gotten much better of late.

[quote] Larry knows about "men, if you fancy".

That struck me as an anachronism. Would anyone in that society openly express an interest in the homosex in mixed company? Would anyone casually suggest it as an option to a business partner?

R211 Is Larry gay?

Whores don’t count as mixed company.

R211, the Haymarket wasn’t technically a brothel, but it was where people went to meet male and female prostitutes (and opium dealers). So it is an appropriate question under the circumstances.

Claybourne should stick to roles where he takes his shirt off to distract from his acting.

I didn't look at it as anachronism, I think Larry was just showing off to Jack, acting worldly. He's enjoying his role as mentor to this babe in the woods. But I did love it when Jack refused to drink with that loose woman. His eyes may be agog, but he's not entirely gullible.

Why do I feel like Jack is going to be gently pushed out of the nest by the Aunties. For his own good, of course.

That's what I thought too r216. This is Larry saying, hey, welcome to the real world. We don't tell the poors about it, cause they can't handle the truth, but at little places like this we can afford to be more blunt about what we want and not worry about what the servants are thinking. The danger for Jack is he's really not part of that world. He's got the money but nothing else, and I assume he'll be reminded of that sharply at some point. And while we're worried about Larry and Oscar, I wonder if Maud is the real danger here. The thought of some newbie wandering around with a ton of money has got to be catnip to that bitch.

Jack needs invest in some NYC real estate asap.

R219 I was just about the post the same thing. I’ll feel better when he buys a piece of property where he can have a repair shop in the front, a workshop for inventions in the back and apartments to let above.

Great Panics arrived in1884,1893 and 1896….much money was lost by many people.

Yup exactly r219/r220. Before it's too late. And I think this was the age when everybody started to want a thousand new little gadgets. Including the old adage "build a better mousetrap." Pay attention, Lady Cuntington. Just cause your family goes back to the 1600s doesn't mean your mousetrap has to.

R219, I'll help him

My guess is Oscar teams up with the whore to get the money back. She obviously doesn't have it so she was working with someone who double-crossed her.

Can't wait for that cunty brit to get taken down. There's some weird shit there. The Duke should have gently set her up in a dower house on the property instead of letting her act like the wife.

The cook and maid are the new Bates couple? Or will it be Larry and Marion?

The Duke’s sister reminds me of Mrs. Danvers in Rebecca.

Bertha is coming for her, R225

I really hope the duke’s sister is murdered in a horrific fashion and no one gets blamed because everyone hates her.

I don't hope the duke's sister is murdered, but I do imagine one of the many, many enemies she's certainly made in her cuntish life will come back to haunt her, probably working through Gladys to fuck her up in some way.

She has my empathy.

I liked the scene where Marian gave Peggy a hard time about traveling with the married former boss. It was a good scene with Agnes clueless what they were talking about.

I am glad they figured out how to make England interesting by Bertha coming to kick some ass, because the actress playing Gladys is not very dynamic.

The Larry stuff is intriguing, but it's clear that they are just coming up with some temporary drama on the way to his marriage to Marian, which is inevitable for the show.

Are we to believe that Oscar has already made money in the stock market, when it's erratic at best for the time? That aspect seems superficial (what exactly does he do or invest in?) but maybe he will get the money back.

They keep telegraphing that poor Clock Twink does not want to leave "home," but I hope they don't have a newly wealthy man being a lowly house staff for much longer. It makes no sense other than for a TV show. It would be great if they gave him a whole new life.

Poor Debra Monk is saddled with that awful character and only gets maybe 2 or 3 lines a week. I hope they pay her well.

Jack sings!!

The duke's sister would never in a million years have kept the dinner placards to place her in rank above her sister-in-law the new Duchess. That's simply not done in the Victorian period, and she would of course have known that because she's spent her entire life in the aristocracy, Had her brother not switched them and she kept to the same placement she wanted (in a more important person than Gladys), she actually would have lost face with the other aristocrats they were entertaining for not following the rules. I was surprised Fellowes allowed that in the screenplay.

The analogy to "Rebecca" is a good one, and really all she needs to do is to snap at the sister within the hearing of others, "I am the Duchess of Buckingham now, and I outrank you" to get her to shut up. Surely there must be a dower house on the property, and since the Duke's parents seem to be dead she could easily be shunted off there.

One thing that's interesting to me is that the Duke so far is not being portrayed as a bad person other than because of his greed. Apparently in the trip from NYC to the UK on their honeymoon, the real Duke of Marlborough (his historical analogue) was very mean to Consuelo Vanderbilt (Gladys's real-life counterpart) and told her he only married her for her money and thta he was going to keep up having an affair with the woman he really loved. But so far ex ept for being greedy this Duke does not seem to be a bad guy.

I thought that was Andrea Martin!

What made you think that?😵‍💫

This Duke is a punk. He's weak and allows Sister to rule over him. He doesn't fear or respect Gladys, maybe he feels a little bit sorry for her. But he has to know he will lose face if he doesn't get his sister under control. No one expects much from the American duchess, but she should at least not be treated unkindly by that shrew while her own husband remains a spectator.

Agree mostly r233. I'm not sure the Duke is such a good guy, but I do think he wants this whole thing to be as pleasant as possible for everyone, under the circumstances. I think he's just taking Bertha's advice to not be a complete dickhead and maybe his wife will like him enough that her money becomes their money, as marriage is supposed to work in those days.

The sister of course is fucking with all of that, being a stupid battering ram, and I suspect at some point brother is going to have to slap sister down, maybe literally.

MARY! Thread closed. Please don't tell me this one is straight. Evah.

he LOVES being objectified, like a lot of male actors

To whom are you referring, r239?

Who do think 🧐

I got nervous as soon as Larry mentioned gambling to Jack. Please be careful with your money, Clock Twink! I could same the same for Ada and that charlatan.

Love the actor playing Merrick, but he pronounced "Sistine Chapel" like he saw the words for the first time in his life in the script he was given. Still, would like him inside me, deeply. It's so attractive, the way he stands up to George.

I'm sure it's been brought up already, but Bertha was wearing a different outfit when she came home from Mamie's party. I wonder where she changed. Speaking of, Mamie without a hat or any other hair decorations looked like a '50s housewife.

Was hoping against hope we'd see more of Merritt Wever but alas, she vanished into thin air with nary a goodbye.

Peggy with two gorgeous guys fighting over her. Ain't that the dream, eh?

Very clever blocking with that amphora behind Lady Cunt Sarah's head, making her look like Satan incarnate. The absolute gall of her bossing around the "Yank" who just saved her from destitution, I can't. Oh, just you wait 'till Bertha gets there, bitch.

Gladys needs to grow a fucking spine. She’s had Bertha as a role model after all.

came home from Mamie's party. I wonder where she changed.

Doesn't Bertha have a house in Newport? I just assumed she stayed overnight hence the change in clothing.

Agree r243. It's tough. I know Gladys is young and inexperienced and out of her depth, but even she knows that the Duke's sister is being a crazy bitch, and firing Gladys' maid without even telling her is wildly aggressive. It's not easy but I hope she doesn't just wait around until Mummy shows up and solves everything.

One thing I loved about last week’s wedding episode was seeing how well cast the Russell footmen were — they all had well-developed, shapely calves. There’s nothing worse than seeing spindly-legged extras wearing white silk stockings in a period drama.

It looks like Marion gets on a high horse next week about her fiancé being a habitue of the Haymarket Club. How tedious. She should be glad he’s not a mamby-pamby momma’s boy. There’s no evidence that he has bedded the prostitutes at the club, but if he has, she should be grateful he knows his way around a woman’s body, he’s more apt to give her a hot honeymoon night. Stupid bitch.

I’m afraid Jack will become a dissolute wastrel. The vast amount of money he has coming his way has stunned his makeshift family into uneasy silence which will become distance. And it’s a rare young man who can resist the blandishments of Manhattan’s plush fleshpots. I hope his own good instincts or someone in his life can give him good advice. I’m afraid he’ll be forced to quit as footman, expected to make a place for himself among the professional middle class if not the upper class.

The laziest way they can keep the Clock Twink in the show is for him to lose all his money. Perhaps gambling. Perhaps a swindle. Perhaps just bad investments. I hope they don’t go there.

I got a bad investment for him!

Nobody makes a day trip to Newport.

[quote]The Larry stuff is intriguing, but it's clear that they are just coming up with some temporary drama on the way to his marriage to Marian, which is inevitable for the show.

They're like the new Lady Mary/Matthew. I wonder which one they'll kill off (the Streeplet?) so they can get a couple of seasons out of the mourning widow/er.

I could see a storyline in which AC Jack falls apart because he no longer fits into either world; I remember reading where Thomas Jefferson's cook (one of the Hemings) ended up drinking himself to death because he got his freedom (he's the one that brought back the recipes from France), but couldn't exist outside of the only world he knew.

[quote]One thing I loved about last week’s wedding episode was seeing how well cast the Russell footmen were — they all had well-developed, shapely calves.

r246 I've noticed that as well. Might be padding, but maybe not.

This one might be my favourite footman. Works for the Russell's and I'm certain you've all noticed him after three seasons – he was the one closest to Gladys when she appeared on top of the stairwell, finally ready to get married. He looks so crisp and struts so faggily with his perfect nose high in the air, I feel represented by his mere presence.

I think Jack is smart enough to avoid the obvious, like Haymarket wimmin. and the gambling tables. I worry it will be someone he trusts "like family" who will mess him up and I am looking at the kitchen servant who was involved with the seance. She had a problem earlier in Season 2 didn't she, stealing from the house, and owing someone money?

I hope clock twink Jack becomes an Edison like character. There certainly plenty of examples of extraordinary social mobility at the time.

I hope they don't just send Jack back into poverty, as if that's just the way of the world. Uncle Julian shouldn't be a lazy bitch about this. He really should try to explore that subtle difference between class in England and America. Yes, we both very much have it, but in the U.S. there is always this feeling that we're not supposed to have it, that anybody with a little pluck and a little effort can make it into any class. England, certainly Victorian England, didn't think like that at all, but we did. But at the same time, it is a big stretch to go from poor to rich. There are clear tensions and problems, and I hope they don't just take the easy route and try to keep Jack poor rather than thinking through what it's really like for him to gradually lose his old life and never be quite right for his new life.

Of course, I think that started out as the central premise, with Bertha versus Agnes, new rich versus old rich, but they seem to have completely lost sight of that. Maybe with Jack they can try again and mean it.

Jack will hopefully be tight with his money. He didn't jump into conversation with the showgirl when offered. He also knows that Oscar was scammed so he will be extra careful I feel. His storyline has a lot of potential but losing all his money is just too depressing for viewers.

[quote] I'm sure it's been brought up already, but Bertha was wearing a different outfit when she came home from Mamie's party. I wonder where she changed.

She would have changed to traveling clothes after the party inside her Newport "cottage." It would take about a day to get back to New York from Newport back then, so it would have not been considered the thing to travel in her party clothes.

How long would a voyage from NYC to England been at that time?

7-10 days.

Didn't Bertha say she would arrive in England before Larry got to Arizona?

Uncle Julian ALWAYS chooses the laziest/stupidest choices for plotting.

Frequently borrowed from other films, shows, books...well, maybe not books. Uncle Julian isn't very literary. He certainly isn't very historical.

And, I don't get the "this season is so much better!"

If anything, the plotting is clunkier than last season.

But, Uncle Julian likes a huge cast and 20 different plots...it means he can just jump from one to another when the writing proves too taxing for his limited talents.

Google AI says:

In 1885, traveling from New York City to Arizona would have been a significant undertaking, taking weeks rather than days or months due to the nascent state of transportation infrastructure across the vast American expanse.

Here's a breakdown of the likely modes of transport and associated travel times:

Trains: While a burgeoning network of railroads existed, transcontinental travel by rail was still relatively new, and journeys could be lengthy. Cross-country train trips could take weeks. Tracks in the American West were often poorly laid, leading to lower average train speeds compared to their European counterparts.

Wagons/Stagecoaches: For portions of the journey not covered by train, travelers would likely have relied on covered wagons or stagecoaches. Travel by covered wagon across the continent, such as on the California Trail, could take four to six months prior to the completion of the transcontinental railroad in 1869. While the railroad improved some travel times, stagecoaches still served many areas and were a slower alternative to trains.

Combination: It's likely that a combination of these methods would have been employed for a journey of this distance, switching between trains and wagons as needed depending on the specific destination in Arizona and available infrastructure.

Challenges and considerations

Travel in 1885 presented numerous challenges beyond the time commitment:

Rough terrain and conditions: Roads were often unpaved and difficult, especially outside cities.

Safety concerns: Travelers faced the risk of encountering bandits or hostile individuals, particularly in less populated areas. Health risks: Exposure to varied climates, unfamiliar foods, potential diseases, and limited access to reliable medical care could significantly impact a traveler's health.

Expense: Long-distance travel, especially by rail or stagecoach, could be costly, making it inaccessible to the poor.

^ Well, he got you to watch every episode while complaining about how bad the show is

shrugs. It's a fun "hate" watch. Though, these last two episodes have really tested my loyalty; I thought they were both pretty bad. The pacing is terrible.

What's fun about the show:

Ada and Agnes bickering.

Mrs. Fish

Nathan Lane as Foghorn Leghorn

The hope that Railroad Daddy might get naked

And, I'm invested in Alarm Clock Jack. If Uncle Julian does something stupid with this plotline (and he probably will) it WILL be over for me.

^that & "How Much More Annoying Can Cynthia Nixon Be? Tune In & Find Out!" Personally, I'm rooting for Oscar to go all Lizzie Borden on her ass

It's unlikely Mrs. Fish would ever have spoken so openly so as to chastise Mrs. Astor, who was basically the capo di tutto i capi of New York society during her lifetime.

Ada/Cynthia Nixon is one of the best things in the show.

Interesting character and a terrific performance.

I think Nixon, Kelli O'Hara and Audra McDonald are doing the best acting on the show.

Baranski, Lane and Ashlie Atkinson are having the most fun, by hamming it up.

Everyone else is...eh. They're either not good actors or they're good actors with badly written roles.

I agree that Cynthia Nixon is doing great on this show (while being fucking annoying on AJLT). I think being forced to play a character who, oh no, doesn't think exactly like Cynthia Nixon at her dingbat worst is actually working great for her.

Here's the full video of Ben Ahlers singing the Sailing song from A NEW BRAIN. He has a beautiful voice, but someone needs to dress him. That t-shirt...oy.

R265 The real Mamie Fish didn't take much guff from Mrs. Astor. She was also one of the Queens of Society and she was notorious for speaking her mind and being much more of a free spirit.

Despite the name being awful, the Fish Family was a very old and valued society name in NY society.

That's the problem with TV stardom as a famous character...it pigeonholes you.

People who've seen Cynthia Nixon on stage know she's a very talented actress but if you haven't, then she's just annoying Miranda. Doing The Gilded Age was a smart move on her part. Shows her range.

She’s just been cribbing off her earlier Emily Dickinson performance.

R271 Shrugs. So?

Actors have a palette to work with, even good ones. Maybe Ada and Emily are similar shades of mauve but...who cares?

And, about 12 people saw that film..

A palette? A really good actor would have a cost of many colors, at least. LOL

coat*

What is the snooker like game the gentlemen play ?

Has Bertha always walked like a truck driver, or was it something in the sea air?

I hear she used to be a stevedore r276. I imagine it's difficult to lose that walk once you acquire it.

Just a few thoughts after catching up on the last two episodes:

Poor Gladys! I think she is beautiful, albeit a little weedy. I’d love to see her triumph in England. Even if she doesn’t like the hot duke, I want her to find happiness in bed and in society.

Has any one pointed out that the Duke’s sister (Hattie Morahan) is Oscar’s real-life partner? It’s a shame that she doesn’t have more to do in the show. The snobby, battleaxe sister is such a stock character, which any number of British actresses could portray. It’s a bit regrettable that she doesn’t have more to do, because she is a wonderful actress in everything from Jane Austen to Ibsen. I do like the harsh barky tone she has adopted for this part though!

Mrs Fain really needs to get a bit more spirit of she is going to survive in society as a divorced woman. Hopefully Bertha is going to remember that she was helped by Aurora as she climbed the social ladder. Bertha needs to be given some redeeming characteristics and helping Aurora could be one of them!

My interest in Clock Twink was never high, and it is not getting higher. And the storyline is odd. Is he really going to continue bringing Agnes her tea even though he is worth a fortune?

I'm wondering if Agnes asking how much Jack made in the clock deal might also be a preamble to asking for a return on her investment. I'm not sure she would go there, but given her financial situation, she might be tempted.

I can’t wait for Bertha to eat the Duke’s sister for breakfast.

The whole Fane divorce remains completely wrong-headed. Yes, a divorced woman is a scandalous thing, and it puts her in a terrible position in society. But, the idea that everybody would be fine with her husband and his little concubine (as in "he inherits our friends and lifestyle" or however she put it exactly) is ridiculous. And in fact, society would see Aurora as doing the right thing, trying to keep the marriage together despite him and even offering a quiet separation with no divorce. It's Charles and his mistress who would be seen as the stubborn, nasty villains in this whole piece. These are wives and widows. They would absolutely refuse to have anything to do with this openly adulterous new couple. In fact, I suspect he'd be the one being pressured constantly by his own family to stop this nonsense and at least maintain the illusion of marriage, even if the reality was over.

I love the Russels when they get along

I love the Russels even MORE when they DON’T

Russell!

R281, this whole divorce storyline seems to be projecting present-day social attitudes back into the 19th century. “Society” then was the only world controlled by women; they weren’t going to approve of a man summarily dumping his wife. In real life, the dreadful Mrs. Vanderbilt was divorced and kept her position.

Bertha in adversity is much more interesting than her steam-roller-powered ascent in society. Coon is at her best when she is insecure and fighting a seemingly lost battle.

Does it make me homophobic if I say that I really want to see Oscar get married to Turner (Mrs Winterton)? They were a great first-season double act, and I really want to see Oscar as the kept man of a fag-hag wife who knows he has Claybourne Elder in the background and is ok with it, because all she really wants is an old-money name to bolster her position in aociety.

[quote] In real life, the dreadful Mrs. Vanderbilt was divorced and kept her position.

For a year after she divorced William K. Vanderbilt, Alva was more or less banned from NYC and Newport society events.

She was only readmitted into society a year afterwards when she became remarried (to August Belmont).

300 grand would make Jack a wealthy man in those days. I felt happy for him.

me too

I enjoy the scenes with Cnythia Nixon and Christine Baranski, there's some acting chemistry there.

But the difference is the Alva Vanderbilt wanted the divorce, at least by the accounts I've read. She was unhappy in the marriage and finally found a way out through divorce and, quite accurate, accusations of adultery. Some say William Vanderbilt sort of helped things along by being more open with his affair, but still. Everyone knew Alva was unhappy, and it was Alva who decided to do something about it. That was scandalous, cause how dare she.

What society much preferred, and was perfectly happy to accept was exactly what Aurora Fane is offering, a separation without divorce, separate lives, tolerating the mistress but don't be so damn showy about it, and generally letting everyone keep up appearances. The most anyone would have to worry about is some agony about seating arrangements. And really, what the hell is the point of being a society hostess if you can't spend half the day agonizing about seating arrangements and managing awkward encounters?

The two Butlers need their own spinoff

I saw a continuity problem in the episode: Christine Baranski asks the head butler Simon Jones to find out how much Clock Twink Jack got for his invention and he could have told her then and there because we’d already seen him react with shock when he learned the amount in the kitchen. Why would he play dumb when asked a direct question? It’s more likely they scrambled the chronology of the scenes in post-production.

The Jack situation is an interesting one. I don’t see him being accepted in NY upper class society, which was still hidebound at this time. Though I’d hate to see him written out of the show, I think it’s more likely he would move to another city, maybe a more fluid one out west, where his wealth would be enough to allow him to crash high society.

If he stays in NY, I could see him somehow joining the upper middle income business-and-merchant class. He could also take the Grand Tour through Europe and come back a far more polished and sophisticated young man. But he would likely not go alone and he doesn’t have any single male friends of affluence except Larry, who will likely not expect to socialize with him anywhere but the Haymarket Club. Oscar wouldn’t befriend him except on the downlow if they shared sexual proclivities.

Plotwise, the Jack problem is an interesting one to explore.

just have russel lose his fortune already, instead of all the dire warnings of being over leveraged!

While I appreciate the opulence of the women’s costumes, the over-saturated and vulgar color combinations they give the characters of Marion, Gladys and Peggy are not period accurate, amd are hard on the eyes. The soft pastels in a monochrome look that Mrs. Fane wears are more what all the upper classes female characters should be wearing. I guess they think that would be too dull and they want us to think that Marion, Gladys and Peggy are in their own differing ways, renegades.

But the clashing colors, which were only really fashionable for a few years from the late 1860s to early 1870s, are really jarring and frequently ugly, despite the beautiful fabrics and workmanship.

i want to practice the homosex, where the man go up into the man, with morgan specter.

A Spector is haunting Europe.

R292. I thought the butler kept his mouth shut because he didn't feel it was his place to tell the nosey bitch and she should ask Jack directly.

Maybe Jack doesn't want to crash "High Society." Maybe he just wants a nice home and friends and a family. And maybe set up a studio where he can work on more inventions, because that seems to be what he really loves. He has earned the right to be comfortable and I truly don't believe he would feel comfortable dining with the Russells and the Astors.

R297 Exactly.

And, the Russells aren't based on ONE family. They stole a lot from the Vanderbilts, especially for Bertha and the wedding, but Railroad Daddy is very much NOT based on a Vanderbilt, but more on Jay Gould.

But, none of it makes much sense...the coming attractions make it look like Ward McAllister/Nathan Lane is getting banished this season even though that didn't actually happen until 1890 and we're supposedly in 1885 or so.

Well nobody feels comfortable in society r298! That's the whole damn point. I don't need a lot of layabouts feeling good about themselves! I need nervous ladies wondering when the axe will fall on them! (sadly, it might have to be my daughter, the silly bitch!)

So Truman Capote was really the re incarnation of Ward McAllister!!!

Why did Aurora go to the party when she knew she’d be shunned? She would not have made a scene, but Julian wanted drama, so off she goes.

[quote] She’s just been cribbing off her earlier Emily Dickinson performance.

They are similar characters. Why be different just for the sake of difference?

[quote] I saw a continuity problem in the episode: Christine Baranski asks the head butler Simon Jones to find out how much Clock Twink Jack got for his invention and he could have told her then and there

Or perhaps he did not want to tell her or wanted consult with The Clock Twink before telling her.

[quote] I don’t see him being accepted in NY upper class society, which was still hidebound at this time. Though I’d hate to see him written out of the show, I think it’s more likely he would move to another city, maybe a more fluid one out west, where his wealth would be enough to allow him to crash high society.

Why assume he would be interested in crashing high society? I imagine there were plenty of wealthy people who existed outside of that world. We have seen wealthy blacks . The Jewish bankers and other wealthy Jews of the time were excluded. Not everyone is Bertha Russell.

R302. Aurora didn't expect the Grand Cuntess Astor to be there. She didn't think Mrs Fish would have invited her if she was. I think she expected a certain amount of chilliness but she had Marian to talk to and Bertha treats her kindly. Poor Aurora is just trying to hang on to her old life.

But Mrs Fish told her she didn’t expect her to actually come. Not sure why she was invited then.

I once LOVED this show, however, last Sunday’s episode was the equivalent of eating cardboard.

Obviously, Bertha and the hubby are heading for divorce, & she’ll eventually marry the man she eye-fucked during the disastrous dinner.

Hopefully, the upcoming events from the divorce & Jack’s newfound cash will bring some more cuntery & bitchery to the show & make it interesting again. After all, that’s what television drama is all about, when watching a period piece. You want to watch intrigue & mayhem, while NOT living it in your real life.

Knowing Julian Fellowes, Jack will likely lose all of his money by letting Oscar invest it. Oscar's aunts will be upset and Jack will shrug it off, happy to remain a footman.

Remember when Tom Barrow tried to make money off the WW I effort buying stuff that would eventually hard to find with rationing? And it turned out to be some con artist who fleeced him and gave him fake goods? I really felt so sorry for Barrow. OTOH look at the house maid who became a secretary, left service and married a wealthy man.

It would be nice if Agnes gave Jack good advice on what to do with his fortune and how to adjust instead of sitting on her can and writing letters to her imaginary friends.

I don't get the complaints about Nixon's portrayal of Aunt Ada and Emily Dickinson being the same. Aunt Ada is broadly comic, although she has serious moments, Nixon is playing her broadly, the goofy old aunt. He characterization of Dickinson was subtle, intense and dark. I was never much of a Nixon fan, but her work in A Quiet Passion was very impressive, very layered.

R311, good one

I would be completely unable to follow this slog without Mrs. Fish's commentary.

IMO Jack really needs to be careful of the cook or kitchen maid or whoever she is. Older woman who blurted out the amount of money he got for his clock. She's the woman who hooked Ada up with the psychic and the seances.

[QUOTE] I was never much of a Nixon fan, but her work in A Quiet Passion was very impressive, very layered.

I agree. Nixon is phenomenal in that film and should have been nominated for an Oscar.

The idiot who said that she had just carbon-copied that performance for her portrayal of Aunt Ada is an idiot.

Mrs fish is a real historical figure too!

Thank God this show has theater actors...they're the only ones capable of selling this bullshit. I thoroughly enjoy each episode, but only because of the performances, costumes and sets. The writing is ASS.

Well, SOME of the theater actors. I mean, several of them are pretty awful. Let's list them!

Jack Gilpin as the Russell's Cunty Butler...really awful voice and line readings

Patrick Page as the just fired Russell assistant, Clay....ditto. Wooden. Looks like a gay daddy body builder playing dress up.

Morgan Spector as Russell. Also ditto. Except a younger gay daddy body builder playing dress up.

The Power Twinks, Claybourne Elder and Ward Horton. I think "power twinks" describes them and their acting style appropriately.

And, honestly, even though everyone raves she's such a great actress, I still don't like Carrie Coon's performance choices as Bertha. Part of it is the bad writing, sure, but the voice she chose is stilted and wooden.

R319 I have to agree with you about Coons. It has only been in the last three episodes that she showed authentic emotions.

Jack saying, "no thank you," to the whore a drink gives me hope that he'll remain true to himself & keep his fortune intact. I also thought it nice that Larry brought him. Feels as though they'll continue to do business together. And one day, make love.

I LOVED how angrily Mrs. Russell has eating that cookie while complaining about the newspapers. That there is a woman who starves herself to keep her corset comfortable.

Me too, clearly hysterical

The fight at the train station felt like how fights on Carnival start.

That ending was high soap opera, you could almost see the ghosts of two women appearing in front of Coon's face – her sister, reminding her of her humble beginnings, and Aurora, whose ostracisation she just witnessed the day before, showing her where she might end up. George was her only anchor to the opulent present, and she just pissed him off. So good!

Someone should have slapped her

I’ll say!

[quote] Someone should have slapped her

Slapped Mrs. Fish.

Really, there’s a reason to in every episode.

I thought that was an excellent bit of acting, Bertha trying to process that George was so pissed he said "I won't be here when you get back!" But at the same t ime why would he say that? Was he pissed in general about the railroad stuff and the money crisis? His business in crisis and she's totally absorbed with her social mess. We know he was pissed off and feeling guilty about Gladys. But Did he mean he was leaving her because he was disgusted with her, or that he was leaving to go west to deal with his business crises?

I think he said “I won’t be here” because he knew he’d been called by Mr. Astor.

I wish he’d do pron

I doubt the Russells will divorce. JF knows that audiences tune in each week to see them as the 'power couple'.

Did poor Ada ever get Mr. Forte's pocket watch back?

The character Nixon is basing Ada on is Birdie Hubbard from The Little Foxes. For which she was awarded a (n undeserved) Tony.

The biggest continuity gaffe in that last episode was Larry's sideburns which had a life of their own scene by scene.

I do love Paul Alexander Nolan and I'm so happy to see him join the series though I really can't figure out where they're heading with him.

Before coming to NY he was a big star of Canada's Stratford Festival where he played many leads, including the best Tony in West Side Story I've ever seen (and I've seen a lot of them).

Ada is nothing like Birdie.

Did you see Nixon's Birdie, r337?

I saw her Birdie AND her Regina. Ada is not Birdie.

I actually think Nixon’s Birdie is one of the MOST deserved Tony Awards in the history of the award.

Because you’re so old and wealthy that you’ve seen every single nominated acting performance?

See how dumb your post sounds at the moment?

So those scenes in that meeting place were a very small part of the episode. I thought for a moment it would turn all tragic and dire and shit.

Bertha did ,ok terrified of what George said.

It looks like next week Bertha will help her daughter stand up for herself and her place in that house. Good.

I still don't think that's a great solution, if Gladys can only deal with life if Mom is around. Bitch needs to grow a spine, and a set of ovaries.

^Well, she'll probably make clear Unhappy Gladys = No $$. So that's how she'll beat the Duke & his troll sister into submission.

The money being offered to the Duke as part of the marriage deal was insufficient and the Duke was going to walk away. It was Gladys' allowance that tipped the balance and sealed the deal. Gladys needs to use that. Hopefully we get to see the sister cut off financially and humiliated.

Cynthia Nixon performance as Birdie was one of the best things I've seen her do and yes, she deserved the Tony for it. (I heard her Regina wasn't great) And yes, her Birdie is VERY similar to Ada.

Julian Fellowes usual insipid dribble underneath high production values. Even worst than DA is that is possible. What a hack. A common episode of All my Children or Another World made more sense.

Something like that

Nixon cribs all her character bits.

Look. I haven't seen Nixon in these plays. I never watched Sex and the City or any part of the sequel, and I am really enjoying her as Aunt Ada. I'm not watching this because it's high art. It's not fucking Shakespeare. It's entertaining. I'm loving the production values, the sets, and costumes and the characters. Oh. I enjoyed DA for the same reasons.

I wouldn't blame Nixon for keeping Birdie in mind as she plays Ada. She needs something more than the insipid dialogue and inane situations Fellowes gives her.

I wouldn’t say Nixon’s Birdie was like her Ada. Birdie is an abused wife, disappointed and beaten down by husband and son but still genteel. Nothing like Ada really.

I guess there will be a season 4 — this morning Deadline reports that the audience for “The Gilded Age” keeps growing — four million watched the last new episode within the first three days of streamimg.

A Ratings High!

[quote] Another week, another record viewership for HBO‘s The Gilded Age. Episode 5 of Julian Fellowes’ period drama, which featured Larry’s long-awaited by fans proposal to Marian, has drawn 4 million U.S. cross-platform viewers within its first three days of availability.

[quote] That is a new series high, eclipsing the previous one, set just a week ago by Episode 4 (3.8 million). It was accompanied by a new weekly viewership high for The Gilded Age on HBO Max, based on weekly viewing accounts, which also topped the record set last week

The ratings are the effect of Coons being on The White Lotus. People who hadn’t watched the show before tuned into to see Coons.

Sure, Bertha.

Coon. Just one coon.

Thank you.

I *hated* the Streepling at first, but she’s improved and I really like her character. I especially like the friendship between Marian and Peggy. Larry better not fuck up and make Marian sad!

[QUOTE] The ratings are the effect of Coons being on The White Lotus. People who hadn’t watched the show before tuned into to see Coons.

It’s COON. And you’ve been told this multiple times.

R357, I feel the same way. She has grown on me.

Ugh, I feel her scenes are the most insipid. Though I blame that more on Fellowes.

I do have to wonder what Meryl tells her about the show.

Meryl sends her “notes” on the family Slack thread.

These ratings are crazy, it's officially the Year of the Coon!

Maybe they can do a Meryl cameo? I could see her popping in for an episode as a real-life figure of the era.

Some facial prosthetics here and there... it could be done.

I have wished Madame Blavatsky would somehow show up (briefly, cause really a little goes a long way with that bitch), but I guess they already have Andrea Martin doing the fraudulent medium thing. But still, Madame Blavatsky was crazy and fraudulent on a whole other level. However, I think Meryl Streep would be all wrong for that cameo.

1883 is also a bit late for that, Blavatsky was famously busy scamming in India at that time.

After stinking up And Just Like That I wonder if Patti LuPone will play her great-great aunt, opera star Adelina Patti, in Season 3. Screw the age discrepancy-and the middle classes.

Marian and Mr. Russell will marry is my prediction. She was told by lawyer Tom Raikes that her father left her railroad stock in his name, but he insists it is “worthless.” She believes him and thus thinks she has no inheritance beyond just a few dollars, but plot twist! It will be worth a lot to George Russell.