Why is Haiti such a violent basketcase?

Yeah, actually there is something different. “The revolution was the only known slave rebellion in human history that led to the founding of a state which was both free from slavery (though not from forced labour) and ruled by non-whites and former captives.”

They also suck at cricket.

Here you go OP.

It’s not surprising that you don’t know this, OP. It’s not like they rush to highlight the largest slave revolt since Spartacus in history classes. Nobody likes to talk about it.

Some say it's the vodou...

Horrible, horrible viscous dictators (Papa doc, Baby doc). Completely exploited and destroyed the natural environment to sell minerals to other countries, violent oppression which included the use of the military “ton-ton” Mavyret” which not only gunned down people in the streets, but killed nuns and aid workers, made people dig their own graves before killing tyem (beheading was a favorite) and even forcing fathers to rape their daughters if they did’t want them to be killed. Oh yeah, the dictators essentially looted the treasury and left no money for the populace (including foreign aid). Absolutely the most tragic situation and destruction of a kind gentle people.

P.S. I know all this because my dad worked in a development bank in the region, and would come hope weeping and shaking. Awful.

Inbreeding? it's an island, after all

Is that what happened with Brexit?

OP is a fucking moron

This probably falls into the category of “things that are best not discussed on here”.

I don’t know the answer to the question, OP. But it is shockingly poor, just compared to the other poor countries in the Caribbean and Latin America.

What r3 said. I think history classes do a better job nowadays talking about Haiti. The truth is, the US South was terrified of slave rebellions in the 19th century due to what happened in Haiti. A lot of former slaves immigrated to Louisiana and spread ideas.

It's easy to make Haitian Canadian friends in Montreal. So many emigrated here for the French. Such a sad story from what seemed like so much promise once they revolted.

And the landscape has been so abused, so much soil erosion. Take a look.at the island of Hispaniola, shared by Haiti and the Dominican Republic.

The border seems so clearly delineated by the lack of vegetation on the Haitian side.

[quote]ruled by non-whites

I meant to write: take a look at a satellite image

Haiti is poor for the same reason Sicily is poor. Foreigners stole all the money and raped the land spawning a class of home grown criminals ready to take over as soon as the foreigners left.

I just finished The Anatomy of Giving. There seems little hope for poor nations to actually benefit long term from billions in aid.

#1 reason is the environment

Haiti is in a rain shadow. The Dominican side of Hispaniola gets all the moisture. This makes agriculture harder.

The farmland of Haiti was the richest in the world. The French made a killing off of growing sugar. But the agricultural practices depleted the soil of nutrients. After Haiti became a republic, people continued farming, albeit on a small scale. It was not profitable and it was not good for the land. The Santo Domingo/Dominican Republic side under the Spanish was always more of a cattle ranching based economy. It was never intensively farmed for cash crops like St. Domingue.

It’s absurd to say that they couldn’t grow crops there. Sugar was the reason for the slaves in the first place.

The soil was depleted of nutrients by the nineteenth century due to intensive farming practices. This is common knowledge. It's a tragedy.

I was there in mid 1970s. Compared to now, Haiti was thriving.

We started with the main market and the toured the outskirts up on the hills. We bought paintings and souvenirs from the locals.

Lotsa fun. So sad to see what it has become.

R21, did you check out any vodou (I find it fascinating)?

r21, what was the food like?

The Hotel Olofsson just burned down. Gang violence. I flew to Port-au-Prince in the 70’s with friends from Pan Am and stayed there. It’s chaos now.

No US airlines are allowed to fly there due to the excessive violence.

It does have a wretched history. Unfortunately, it also now has a relentless determination to punch itself in the dick over and over and over again.

How it all ends, I'm guessing some kind of exhaustion. Until then, I suspect nobody is going to solve shit.

The plagues and earthquakes didn’t help.

If you're so concerned with Haiti, then give to my charity. I lived there for months and even made a documentary!

I went there

What Went Wrong

1. Authoritarianism Turned to Total Paranoia

• Papa Doc Duvalier (1957–1971): Ruthless dictator who created a reign of terror via the Tonton Macoute militia. While tourism continued under his rule, internal stability was illusionary.

• Baby Doc Duvalier (1971–1986): Took over as a weak, corrupt playboy. His regime was propped up by foreign aid but hollowed out internally. His greed, mismanagement, and repression caused massive unrest and brain drain.

2. Collapse of Institutions

• Education, infrastructure, healthcare, and agriculture were all gutted. The Duvaliers enriched themselves but left no durable national systems behind.

• After Baby Doc’s fall in 1986, Haiti saw repeated coups, weak governance, and a nearly non-functional state.

3. Environmental Catastrophe

• Severe deforestation (Haiti is now over 98% deforested) led to soil erosion, crop failure, and vulnerability to hurricanes.

• Urban overpopulation and lack of rural opportunities increased the pressure on Port-au-Prince and created slums.

4. Economic Dependency and Exploitation

• Haiti was pushed toward dependency on foreign aid and IMF programs that enforced austerity and trade liberalization.

• This undermined local agriculture (e.g., U.S. subsidized rice undercut Haitian farmers) and increased poverty.

5. Natural Disasters

• Hurricane Jeanne (2004), the 2010 Earthquake, and others devastated an already fragile country.

• The 2010 quake killed over 200,000 and destroyed government buildings, worsening the power vacuum.

6. Foreign Interventions and Exploitation

• UN peacekeeping missions (like MINUSTAH) were controversial—introducing cholera in 2010, for example.

• NGOs often operated as a shadow government, leading to fragmentation and miscoordination.

7. Gang Rule and Political Chaos

• In the 2020s, gangs now control large parts of Port-au-Prince and the countryside, filling the power void left by the collapse of the state.

• The 2021 assassination of President Jovenel Moïse left the country in a lawless, leaderless freefall.

⸻

⚫ Summary: Why It Fell Apart

Haiti’s descent wasn’t due to any one event, but a slow collapse caused by authoritarian kleptocracy, international exploitation, environmental degradation, and repeated shocks from which it never recovered. The allure it had in the 1970s was fragile—built more on myth and momentary stability than on enduring foundations.

This is one big reason not included in r30's ChatGPT list

They were fucked from independence by this tremendous economic burden. They should have to the a French to fuck off. Much of the ecological devastation that followed was due to an attempt to pay off this freedom debt

Seems like they have received billions and billions and billions of dollars from countries all over the world. All kinds of foreign aid. I can’t speak to what happened in the 1700s but I can tell you that in the 1900s and the 2000s, somebody over there has been getting billions of dollars. How was all of that money used?

Welfare queens, yeah yeah.

Im a native floridian (we didnt used to be this bad!) and Ive lived around worked with Haitians many times. The one thing I could never understand is how they could be so damn arrogant coming from a shithole country with zero to offer the world .The men are unbelievably haughty and treat their women like shit. Wich doesnt make sense considering its the women who work 2 jobs and the men dont do jack shit . Not all Haitians are like that of course,but enough of them to be a cliche for a reason .

Pretty sure that’s the whole Caribbean. Batty boy!

Too much voodoo.

[quote]Horrible, horrible viscous dictators

Oh, dear.

I blame Deb Messing.

[quote]The soil was depleted of nutrients by the nineteenth century due to intensive farming practices.

Over two centuries ago. Soil depletion can be reversed in a decade.

Haiti has always been a rough place but lately it’s even worse. A violent and lawless region. Somalia of the Caribbean.

Charity can’t fix this.

Voodoo can fix it.

R35 sometimes all you have left is your culture.

R32, have you heard of the Duvaliers?

Historical events created an event cascade from which Haiti didn't recover. However, Today! there has been an underlying cause that prevents any positive development. There are simply too many people for so few resources. Haiti has sort of a Mad Max world where the most powerful, audacious gangs prey on poor.

USAID conducted a study back in the 90s, where they calculated all the calories of the food grown in Haiti, subtracted food exports and added imported / donated food. The total calories were then divided by the population of Haiti. The result was daily insufficient calories for Haitian, even controlling children and elderly. Attempts to send more food resulted in theft by gangs and attacks of warehouses by starving people.

Like the rest of Carribbean (and much of Central America) the solution is emigration.

That sounds about right R45 and soil replenishment generally requires leaving the land fallow, which they can’t afford to do given the starvation issue.

Emigration to where? Your backyard? Well thanks for taking them in R45!

They were forced to pay reparations for freeing themselves from slavery and isolated from trade for hundreds of years. Try reading a book about it.

I'm in Florida, R35. I don't get that impression, but I don't socialize with Haitians much, more interacting at stores.

There’s a large Haitian community in New York. My impression is most emigres are ambitious and well educated. But that may just be the type of people I associate with.

That’s an accursed part of it all too. The Haitians with education and skills and non-criminal career ambitions have long since fled. Nearly all of them.

Haiti is what’s left.

Half a million Haitians on Temporary Protected Status are getting shipped back by Trump and Kkkosplay KKKristi starting in September, so they'll either sink or swim once they're back home. Maybe they can start to revive the country.

I find Haitian culture and history very interesting.especially Vodou. I’d love to visit but do worry about safety

We have a lot of Haitians in Canada and they’re great people.

Official information at DHS.gov. (27 June, 20025). [my emphasis]

"After conferring with interagency partners, Secretary Noem determined the conditions in Haiti no longer meet the TSA statutory requirements. Secretary Noem has determined that, OVERALL CONDITIONS HAVE IMPROVED to the point where HAITIANS CAN RETURN SAFELY HOME. She further determined that permitting Haitians to remain temporarily in the United States is CONTRARY TO THE NATIONAL INTEREST of the United States. Haitian nationals returning home are encouraged to use the USCBP "CBP Home App" to report their departure from the U.S."

[quote]Secretary Noem determined the conditions in Haiti no longer meet the TSA statutory requirements. Secretary Noem has determined that, OVERALL CONDITIONS HAVE IMPROVED to the point where HAITIANS CAN RETURN SAFELY HOME.

If ICE Barbie has determined that conditions have improved, then why hasn’t the FAA dropped its ban on flights to Haiti? Maybe DOT Secretary “Real World” Duffy should be asked for an explanation?

Oh who fucking cares R48 ??? It has nothing to do with history and everything to do with national character . On the opposite side of their island is a prosperous country . How do you explain that ? French reparations ? When does one stop blaming events from centuries ago ? After the earthquake they had untold BILLIONS given to them. Where is the money ? What did it do for the people ?

That’s an interesting point, r57. Is there any place on Earth that has not been violently colonized by other people?

Is it only colonialism since 1492 that has no statute of limitations?

Must Turkey give back Istanbul back to the descendants of those who lived in the Byzantine Empire?

Obviously the Haitians are subhuman, misogynistic, arrogant, smelly, lazy, corrupt, ungrateful, incompetent, and non-white, the sort of creatures who deserve to burn in hell for all eternity for what they did to that poor island and its biome. I’m glad I can come to DL and meet with like minded souls!

It wasn’t colonialism R58, they had to give the whole wealth of their nation away including destroying the land for 140 years straight and it only ended after WW2.

After WW2, were any other countries obliterated but came back from it, r60?

WW2 was 80 years ago. It’s time to stop making excuses for perpetual failure.

I’d like it if our country would bring in more Haitians and less Indians. They actually speak one of our official languages already and don’t smell

R62 you sound young and sheltered. I am glad I will be dead when all the world experiences the environmental collapse Haiti currently suffers from. When you get to experience it give a thought to this thread.

[quote]I’d like it if our country would bring in more Haitians and less Indians. They actually speak one of our official languages already and don’t smell

The official languages of India are Hindi and ENGLISH. The official languages of Haiti are Haitian Creole and French. Please research before posting.

R54 No they're not.

DL or Stormfront?

[quote]Obviously the Haitians are subhuman, misogynistic, arrogant, smelly, lazy, corrupt, ungrateful, incompetent, and non-white, the sort of creatures who deserve to burn in hell for all eternity for what they did to that poor island and its biome. I’m glad I can come to DL and meet with like minded souls!

That's the intent of threads like this one.

Ask a question about why place X is the way it is, people then reply with actual history and facts, others say "no, it has to be something else" or "it must be cultural" and the downhill slide continues into blatant ignorance.

R68 It's people like you who are ignorant and racist. You don't think Haitians and other Black people can help themselves or are in any way responsible for their problems, backward cultures and mentality. You think Whites have an obligation to help them. That is the true definition of White Supremacy.

Haiti’s dirt poor but has a rich upper class that has robbed from the country.

Any place with such wealth disparities is unstable and has tons of crime

[quote]R68 It's people like you who are ignorant and racist. You don't think Haitians and other Black people can help themselves or are in any way responsible for their problems, backward cultures and mentality. You think Whites have an obligation to help them. That is the true definition of White Supremacy.

What is your problem, R69. Let's get something straight. You are in no position to tell me what I'm thinking, especially after the reply you posted. Maybe it's you, not me, that hold those beliefs since you stated them and I didn't. Next, please read the thread again from the top. Why aren't you going after the people who are clearly making offensive and stereotypical comments about Haitians rather than me, who simply pointed it out. Finally, I'm a Black man. Why the hell would I ever endorse or perpetuate White Supremacy in any form? I'm not a racist and don't post racist and offensive comments here or anywhere else. I'm aware of Haitian history and the current state of any nation cannot be thoroughly explained in a few words on an internet thread. There's always more to the story. So take all of what I said into consideration and reread R68 to see I'm not in any way the person you thought I was.

Each successive new government has begged for international humanitarian aid merely for the sake of looting it. You ought to check out Michele Duvalier's Facebook for some laughs.

I like how DL suddenly is supposed to care about misogyny. In the immigrant community, no less.

What country are you posting from R73?

And the United States of America is being dismantled by a fascist cadre that a hateful, deluded, racist minority were permitted to elect because of disaffected consumers. Inhumane concentration camps are being set up and undocumented aliens are being sent to distant countries and imprisoned or abandoned. Government propaganda, a rampant rape of resources, self-aggrandizement, graft, abuse of power, international crimes...

And ain't Haiti just the shit show?

Roxane Gay’s people are Haitian.

“ What is your problem … Let's get something straight. You are in no position to tell me what I'm thinking”

Girl, that’s DL’s bread and butter. We KNOW who you are, Ray Don.

[quote]And the United States of America is being dismantled by a fascist cadre that a hateful, deluded, racist minority were permitted to elect because of disaffected consumers.

The United States sending endless billion$$ of aid to failed countries like Haiti whose leaders do nothing but loot it all…is one of the reasons that fascist cadre got elected in the first place.

I’m HAPPY to send taxpayer money to Haiti!

Maybe Wyclef Jean can send some aid. He can ask Lauryn Hill to contribute.

It’s the national character? Now I’ve heard everything

You must be new to DL, r81. We use the same kind of descriptions for America now. UK after Brexit. Etc…..

R54 oh fuck off, please, with your Pollyanna Canadian BS. Some of them will be lovely, some of them will not be. Just like with every group.

[quote] Emigration to where? Your backyard? Well, thanks for taking them in [R45]!

r47 - I'd rather live near Haitians than KKK cosplaying MAGAs.

r30 - Please thank ChatGPT. Your assignment has been accepted because you foot-noted the AI.

R84 Be careful what you wish for.

R75 You just described the last 100 years of the American Empire.

Humans really have no memory whatsoever.

Calm down, R83.