‘Golden Girls’ Creatives Spill the Tea

This confirms to me that Bea's hatred of Betty had to do with something Betty did and that Bea never got over. They used to walk arm and arm on set and hand in hand to lunch every day. That's not the behavior of two women who can't stand each other. Bea started calling Betty a cunt and Marsha told her to "get over it", but get over what exactly? Sounds like something specific happened and Bea started hating Betty around season 4.

I totally think Betty let Bea motorboat her once and then put the kibosh on it and Bea was hurt. Also nice to know that Deena Freeman, the off-brand Didi Conn who played the second Kate Zbornak, was in the audience.

Who’d have thought there would be a need of an “off-brand Didii Conn” but R2, you nailed it - that’s exactly what Freeman was. I remember her playing Cousin April for a season or so on Too Close For Comfort.

R3 I never thought there would be a need for an off-brand Meg Foster but grateful there was!

"Betty told me I could play with her titties. Then she took them away. CUNT!!!"

This story is like the Datalounge Pentagon Papers.

There are clips on Youtube of Betty being fun on the set, jokingly teasing Bea after flubbing a line and talking to the audience during filming. Bea didn't seem amused. (Though the audience loved it.). In the article at OP, one of the panelists seems to be referencing this YouTube clip when he talks about Betty breaking character.

I think Betty nailed it when she said that she was always sunshine and giggles, and that seemed to annoy Bea. Maybe Bea saw Betty's behavior as attention-seeking and possibly even fake. And maybe she thought that Betty was kissing up to the audience for popularity. And possibly it happened too many times on a bad day.

Gonna see if I can find a video of this somewhere so I can see the whole panel discussion.

I wish they would have invited Lynnie Greene, who guest starred as "Young Dorothy" in a few episodes. She copied Bea's body language, gestures, and speaking style perfectly. She's also shared some tidbits in a podcast before, such as Bea being in a bad mood when she had to play Sophia's mother in a flashback. Lynnie suggested that she was upset at having to wear aging make-up, Then her mood got worse when someone bumped her wheelchair into a wall.

[quote] I think Betty nailed it when she said that she was always sunshine and giggles, and that seemed to annoy Bea. Maybe Bea saw Betty's behavior as attention-seeking and possibly even fake. And maybe she thought that Betty was kissing up to the audience for popularity. And possibly it happened too many times on a bad day.

Uh, if you're an actor and on set or in public, that's what you do. Bea was a capital C you next Tuesday and we all know it.

I can't really pick a side in the Bea-Betty war.

R10 it really is the gay Sophie's Choice, isn't it?

[quote] She's also shared some tidbits in a podcast before, such as Bea being in a bad mood

So it was a day ending in “y.”

Is creatives a word we are going to have to put with for some time?

The pathology of Bea’s hatred of Betty is more than I ever imagined. It always seemed like one of those shred of truth things that became exaggerated for affect through the years. But, wow, it sounds like Bea was obsessed.

Calling up a “Golden Girls” producer years after the show ended to say “I just saw that cunt Betty White at the grocery store. I’m going to write her a letter” is not the behavior of a mature, sane, stable woman in her 70s.

To be that deranged and angry over a former coworker who simply annoyed you is baffling. Meanwhile, you’ve had a wildly successful, multi-award-winning career on stage and screen that at least 99 percent of performers would envy.

I used to adore, Bea. But in retrospect she sounds so pitiful and petty.

Plus, Bea was credited first and, I assume, she was paid more than the other ladies. (I have never seen their salaries discussed). Yet, Bea was still bitter as ever.

They even gave Bea a small piece of the show to keep her for the seventh season. That’s unheard of and a gesture none of the other women were offered. And still, all Bitter Bea could do is bitch and complain.

I think her husband dumping her for another woman permanently broke Bea’s brain.

I hope her kids are enjoying the spoils of her career.

"Betty cheated on me with that gum chewer Kristy McNichol! CUNTS!!"

R16 They did give her a small piece of the show but never intended to pay her. They lied to her so she would stay for season 7. She had to sue them for the money. I think it was worth 4 million dollars.

Marc Cherry has spoken about the feud between Betty and Bea and, frankly, I think he has more insight than a lot of these other writers because when you hear his commentary, you can see that he understands BOTH women at a fundamental level and he approaches both of them with genuine empathy and emotional intelligence. He was recently on that Golden Girls podcast that Jennifer Simard has with some horribly annoying shrieking man. That annoying host aside, it was very interesting hearing Marc Cherry's insights on the show and on the girls.

[quote]“The show would have continued after seven years,” she shared. “Their contracts were up and … the executives went to the ladies, and Estelle said, ‘Yes, let’s keep going,’ and Rue said, ‘Yes let’s keep going,’ and Betty said, ‘Yes, let’s keep going.’ And Bea said ‘no fucking way,’ and that’s why that show didn’t continue. …

Honestly, Bea was right. The show had run its course by then. Plus Estelle's problems were getting worse. Her decline was VERY noticeable on the last two seasons of Empty Nest. There's no way they could have done more than one more year on Golden Girls.

My gripe is that they all knew Bea had to be dragged into doing the last two seasons, even testing other actresses and doing episodes without her, so they could have chosen to wrap things up in a much better than how they did.

Bea and Betty co-hosted a Disney anniversary celebration during the shows first season (which I taped and watched over and over religiously as a kid). I doubt Bea would have consented if she hated Betty that much at that point. Especially since Rue and Estelle weren't even invited.

Love the Golden Girls Deep Dove podcast. The hosts are fun and Jennifer is hilarious.

It certainly sounds like they were on friendlier terms when the show began, but something happened down the line to exacerbate Bea’s animosity. Maybe it wasn’t even one big thing, but a bunch of little things that added up over time, like Betty’s joking with the audiences.

Rue speaks at Bea's memorial service and says "cunt."

[quote]I never thought there would be a need for an off-brand Meg Foster but grateful there was!

[quote]—Kay Lenz

You need to back right the fuck off, bitch

R24 - that's hilarious. Never seen that before. Thanks for sharing. Are there additional remarks from Rue at that memorial service? It seems like she was maybe a hostess for the evening?

Do the writers reveal whether Bea went to a Del Taco or an El Pollo Loco on her way to work the morning of the 'incident?

R14 Bea's letter to Betty:

Dear CUNT,

I saw you at the grocery store the other day eating a grape in the fruit section. That's stealing! I knew you were a two-faced thief! Expect a visit from the cops this evening. Don't drop your soap in prison! Hahahahaha!

Sincerely,

Your little Beasy

I enjoyed the clip at R24, especially the PETA rep, but why would Rue tell that story that she told? It doesn't make Bea look good. I'm guessing Betty wasn't in attendance. It would have been upsetting for Betty to hear that.

Betty always struck me as passive-aggressive. And bitchy. But passing off her bitchiness in “jokes”.

Bea always struck me as too direct. I can’t imagine Bea having much patience for that Betty’s … shtick. Drunks don’t have a lot of patience and get annoyed very quickly.

But, look, who cares? The show is joyful and hilarious.

R27 El Pollo Loco is peruviano, not mexicano or even cubano.

Wait, some people aren't absolute best friends with their coworkers? Weird.

Ed Asner and Ted Knight didn't get along on Mary Tyler Moore. Jimmy Walker didn't seem to get along with anyone on Good Times. Richard Dreyfuss didn't get along with Bill Murray on What About Bob? and Robert Shaw on Jaws. People often forget that tv and movies are illusions.

R2 Betty: "No more motorboating for you Bea. 36 times was enough!"

Bea: "You CUNT!"

Don't they say that the real Betty was Sue Ann Nivens.

I thought we were talons g about gays in the workplace? Not B-list actors.

*talking

r37 Did you read the title of this post? You thought it was about gays in the workplace?

[quote]I can't really pick a side in the Bea-Betty war.

Team Bea.

X-over mix

It's just about going to work for as long as you can stand it. When it's time to leave, it's time to leave.

Sometimes your co-workers really are cunts.

I love Rue.

I heard from a reliable source that Bea was pissed that Betty won the Emmy for best actress in a comedy series first in 1986. Then, Rue won the same award in 1987. Bea won in 1988 along with Estelle as best supporting.

R43, Rue said that.

Bea was a weirdo on so many levels. Betty was indeed a cunt though.

Bea seemed like a deeply unhappy person. Who the hell knows what her demons were.

Bea met Angela Lansbury, in "Mame", on Broadway. She was deeply wounded; she desperately wanted to play "Mame". Although she and Angela were very close friends. Angela said Bea never got over losing the part.

Didn't Bea hate Estelle too?

I think that Bea probably had to put up with a lifetime of bullying. First because she was tall (that's rough on girls and young women). Then because her face didn't meet the conventional standards of beauty.

Then when she went into acting, she was in a career that prized women's looks over their talent. (You could argue that any profession does this, but acting is more blatant about it.). In an interview, she became angry when she spoke about how Tallulah Bankhead once told her that Bea's lack of stage presence was due to her bone structure.

On the Golden Girls, a lot of the writer's jokes attacked Bea's looks. She complained to the writers about it. There were jokes about Rose being dumb and Blanche being promiscuous, but the jokes didn't phase the actresses because Betty and Rose were the complete opposite of their characters. But the jokes about Dorothy's looks couldn't be shrugged off in the same way.

Then her character's main trauma was being left by her husband of 35 years due to infidelity. In real life, her husband left her after about 28 years and two adopted kids. He was married to his next wife within a couple of years, and he had a baby with her at around 60 years of age.

R49, I thought I read Bea was brutally raped and that is why she couldn't have children of her own.

Mary Tyler Moore said that Sue Ann Nivens was the character that was most like Betty. I know they were all stage actresses, but I always felt Rue was the true stage-trained actress of the bunch. When she tried not to break character, she would do certain poses/acting discipline exercises to keep her composure. She also looked out for Estelle in scenes and would literally direct her on camera to help her finish a scene. She was not above laughing when Estelle went off-script while Bea always looked pissed as hell. The one time I can recall Bea laughing was during the ep Even Grandmas Get the Blues when Blanche was discussing having a baby. I also noticed Bea would always look at Betty when Estelle ad-libbed. So, they had some sort of comradery.

As for the Betty/Bea rumors, I suppose Bea didn't care for the way Betty would ham it up in between scenes, not out of envy, but because she seemed to be more of an introvert. I can recall a couple of scenes where Betty's personality would pop up during a scene where she'd add a little move or expression that was not in the script and Bea would look surprised yet smile. This was throughout the entire seven seasons, so, if the rumor is they had a fallout during the series, I didn't notice any change.

Bea's ex-husband Gene Saks left her for a blonde woman named Keren. Maybe Bea was triggered by Betty's fake blonde hair and was having traumatizing Vietnam flashbacks every time Betty was around.

Simone Griffith who was on Bea's short-lived sitcom Amanda's, said that Bea didn't speak to her much on the show and she believed it was because she looked a lot like Gene's new wife. That's from Jim Colucci's book Golden Girls Forever. Simone was a guest star on The Golden Girls playing one of Stan's girlfriends (the writers were really trying to piss be off weren't they?) but she said Bea was very nice to her.

*piss Bea off

Bea was an incredibly immature and unpredictable woman and was probably responsible for several unsolved murders in the greater Los Angeles area.

I don’t think Bea fucked anyone after her husband dumped her.

That explains all of her rage.

R16- Beatrice Arthur was a DYKE so I don't think the fact that her husband left her was SO heartbreaking.

Betty White might have acted all sweet on camera and in front of the studio audience but we all know in real life she was totally like her character Sue Ann Nivens on the Mary Tyler Moore Show.

R54 LOL. Bea and and her accomplice Angela.

Bea must have had some qualities since Angela loved her.

Bea also sort of looked like Angela's husband.

R56 Bill Macy said Bea didn't want to continue doing Maude because she was shattered after her husband left her for a younger woman.

I think Bea was probably bi.

All women I've met who came from theatre were bi.

Plus, in Hollywood, everyone fucks everyone. It's very incestuous.

[quote]I thought I read Bea was brutally raped and that is why she couldn't have children of her own.

When Bea was in the Marines during World War II she had a horrible case of veneral disease that took a while to clear up. That may have left her infertile.

[quote]Bea met Angela Lansbury, in "Mame", on Broadway. She was deeply wounded; she desperately wanted to play "Mame".

Bea was a Vera, not a Mame. And she was neither a Sally nor a Phyllis.

Why would a woman put up with a bitter, nasty woman like Bea?

r49 Estelle was terribly afraid of death, and Sophia is at the butt of a death joke nearly every episode.

Was Estelle good on Empty Nest? I stopped watching after Kristy McNichol left. The series should be on DVD by now. There should also be a magnificient Golden Girls boxset.

*magnificent

Why can't we edit our posts and correct spelling mistakes? DL, it's not 1995 anymore!

*box set

*R63 and R64

I'd orgasm if I saw both Betty and Bea at the grocery store at the same time!

R59, yes, but wasn't that a result of the rape?

In regards to Betty...

Better to be a Sue Ann Nivens than an Ellen Harper Jackson.

Estelle...

She was terrified of death so I'm glad she had the dementia so she never realized when she was going out.

Where did the "Bea was raped in the Marines" story come from?

I’ve only read it on here. Probably the same loon who keeps saying that Stan and Dorothy lost their first baby to explain away the reason was in his 20’s when they had been married for 38 years..

R70, R71, I read that about Bea some years ago and it wasn't here.

I don’t know why people find this so amazing. There have been plenty of nasty cunts and assholes every place I have worked who don’t realize what actual bitches they are, and you just have to learn to ignore or tolerate it and go about getting your work done. TV shows are no different

Everyone is lying about the Bea/Betty feud. They are desperately trying to keep us from knowing the truth which was revealed a few times but the gatekeepers always take us back to the same stories of Bea came from theatre and Betty from tv and bla bla bla...

Marsha Posner Williams said "these two couldn't warm up to each other if they were cremated together." Oh really? Is that why they were often seen arm and arm on set? Is that why Bea would take Betty's hand every day and go to lunch with her? Is that why according to Bea's son Matthew Saks, they commuted together during the first few seasons because they lived close to each other? Is that why on the Merv Griffin Show in 1985, Bea sat next to Betty and held her hand? Is that why in the 30 minute version of the interview, Bea and Betty couldn't stop touching and teasing each other in a sweet way? Is that why Bea is sitting next to Betty and touching her in every interview The Golden Girls gave during the first 3 seasons? Is that why there's a picture from the 70s of Bea, Betty and Jean Stapleton sitting at a table and laughing? Is that why Betty repeated in interviews and her book Betty White In Person that she and Bea had been friends for years before Golden Girls? Is that why Bea took the role of Dorothy knowing she would have to work with Betty 5 days a week, possibly for years? BECAUSE SHE HATED HER???

No, what they are desperately trying to bury is the fact that Estelle started having memory problems in season 4. This was confirmed by Rue during an interview (the one where she's lying down) and Betty made fun of Estelle. This enraged Bea to no end because Bea became very close to Estelle. If the producers had admitted this before Betty died, it would have ruined Betty's image of being "America's Grandmother", a title given to her by Joan Rivers I believe. Betty became like a mascot after all the GG women died and she was the only one left. She was our sweet little nana and was making the industry big bucks. To learn that she made fun of poor little Estelle would have destroyed her image. The producers still lie about it because if they told the truth, they would have to admit that they lied the whole time.

Now, Stan Zimmerman who wrote the book "The Girls: From Golden To Gilmore" said that he noticed that Betty was making fun of Estelle and initially was mad at her but then realized later on that she was actually trying to take the attention away from Estelle and put it on her. Bea probably didn't understand that. This is why starting season 4, she became obsessed with calling Betty a cunt (for making fun of her struggling friend) and Bea never sat next to Betty again in interviews or award shows. Rue was always sitting between them.

Bea didn't start GG hating Betty. She knew Betty didn't come from theatre and knew about Betty's bubbly personality. They ran in the same circles in the 70s, went to parties together and were friends. But Bea thought Betty was making fun of Estelle and that was it. She lost it and never forgave Betty for that. Betty said in interviews that she didn't know what she ever did or that her positive personality made Bea mad sometimes. I don't believe that either. Betty knew what the problem was. How do you not ask someone who used to be your friend why they now hate you? Betty knew.

The video below is an example of Betty making a joke when Estelle was being awkward at 1:40.

People are complicated.

Actors are insanely insecure most of the time.

Consider: Bea was the top-billed star and Betty won the Emmy for GG before her. That had to hurt.

I also always got the sense that Betty seemed to joy her life, and Bea didn’t sound like the happiest person. It can bring out the worst in many to see others who seem to be thriving more than them.

I remember that Betty wrote in “Here We Go Again” that Estelle was the only cast member to congratulate her on her Emmy win. Rue must have been resentful also.

Or more like Rue knew Bea was pissed and decided to not make it an issue on the set.

Bea did the Tonight show a week or two after the Emmys, (with Bill Cosby guest hosting) and Betty winning was never mentioned. Instead, they talked about how Bea's dress was something she had worn before.

Bea shit on Betty’s dressing room floor. That’s what I remember.

Does anyone believe that Bea would have been truly happy if she won the Emmy first or would she have found something else to be miserable about?

r50 - I feel like some of this is fan fiction you've imagined. You're not alone. On Golden Girls Facebook and Instagram groups and Subreddits, people often cite that scene and others as showing the actresses "ad-libbing" or "breaking character and laughing", but I'm quite certain we've heard from writers and producers on the show in the past... (someone better researched than me check me on this)... that no such thing happened. The girls apparently deeply respected the writers and didn't ad-lib whole scenes. And while the ladies may have genuinely been "chuckling on the inside" at each other's very funny line-readings, in scenes like that, they were ACTING as though they couldn't stop laughing (their 'breaking into laughter' was supposedly literally in the stage directions of the scripts... some of which have been auctioned off over the years.)

Sorry to piss all over your parade, but it just kinda grinds my gears when folks just make this stuff up in their heads and assume that their interpretations of the situation must be fact.

R80, I don't seek out Golden Girls sites, nor do I read Facebook, I'm just a mere viewer. That being said, I can discern when Rue is guiding and directing Estelle to get her through a scene like in "Dancing in the Dark."

I can tell when it's the actor vs the character. Betty became Betty a few times when she played Rose. Not in dialogue but with her expressions and yes, it was intentional on Betty's part.

I never implied they ad-libbed entire scenes but if you think that scene in" Even Grandmas Get the Blues" when Estelle says, "Maybe the National Enquirer will pay for it." is fake laughing that's your prerogative. Watch that scene and then go watch the obvious fake laughing early on in the first season when Dorothy and Blanche can't stop laughing at Rose's musings. It's like night and day.

Lastly, I don't have a parade on which you can relieve yourself and you really should learn to shift gears in a smoother manner, but I am entitled to my observations without you accusing me of making "this stuff up."

r81 I just started watching Dancing in the Dark, and you're absolutely right. It's subtle, but Rue clearly nudges Estelle to remind her to shake her purse.

R81 - you're 100% right about Rue's subtle guidance of Estelle. It's a lovely thing and I think either she or a writer for the show confirmed that in a talk back several years after Estelle had passed. But, yes, the "Maybe the Enquirer will pay for it" scene was written as-is and, yes, these women were the best of the best, so they were capable of making a scene like that feel spontaneous and improvised or that they were laughing out of character.

But, you're also correct that, as the seasons progressed, their performances became less stagey and more natural (in their own always-heightened Golden Girls way.) I think what you're really witnessing is the continuing evolution of their performances, their undeniable chemistry and their incredible comic instincts... plus a looser, more natural performing style. There was a writer for GG who used to post on the very popular FB group "You're Cuter Than an Intrauterine" that confirmed they weren't actually breaking up during that scene and that every line was written as-is. They also confirmed the same thing about another scene a lot of people think was improvised and that the actors were genuinely breaking character and laughing in -- the on in which Rose tells of the Great Herring War. I think the writer even posted pics of the script showing that to be the case. I can't remember who the writer was. It wasn't Marc Cherry... someone less well known, but who worked on the show for at least a couple of seasons.

Everyone is lying about the Bea/Betty feud. They are desperately trying to keep us from knowing the truth which was revealed a few times but the gatekeepers always take us back to the same stories of Bea came from theatre and Betty from tv and bla bla bla...

Which one shot JR? Or was it JFK? There’s your answer

This thread is full of nuts—bizarre

Who is supposedly lying about it?

I know someone who worked on the show. They had/have positive opinions of all the actresses but acknowledge Bea and Betty had friction but that they also would routinely have lunch together.

[quote]Everyone is lying about the Bea/Betty feud. They are desperately trying to keep us from knowing the truth

MARY!!!!!!!!

[quote]This thread is full of nuts—bizarre

Okay, okay. Take it easy.

R85 Would you have lunch every day with a coworker you couldn't stand? Lunch for me is a time to get away from coworkers I don't like. I don't want to see their faces for an hour while I'm eating my sandwhich. Bea INSISTED on going to lunch with Betty every day and if they were in their bathrobes in the evening, Betty had to walk in front of Bea (some kind of OCD ritual) and then Bea would get up and they would both go to the dining room and sit next to each other. This was confirmed several times by Rue. What kind of feud is that?

This is an interview from 1987 and they say they never ad-lib. Also, Bea is sitting next to Betty, and grabs her hand at 1:43 and Betty starts laughing. I can't hear what Bea says to Betty. Does anyone know?

I'm genuinely asking, R88, are you on the spectrum? I don't mean it as an insult. I know that some "grey" areas are difficult for some folks on the spectrum to understand. The idea that there was a multi-decade conspiracy to create some false narrative about Bea's prickliness toward Betty seems believable to you? What do you think, when Rue and Betty were still around, they regularly met up with the former GG writers to cleverly come up with ways to plant these seeds for YEARS? Girl... come on, now.

Isn't it much more likely that Bea was a complicated woman who could, no doubt, contradict herself and, at times, enjoy her co-star's company and others gave Betty the coldest of shoulders? Bea was a heavy drinker who held grudges just like Patti LuPone does. And, as many of the writers have noted before, despite the steely Dorothy exterior, she was probably the most sensitive and most easily bruised of the girls. Betty was a tough cookie and could take things on the chin. Bea bruised and took things too personally at times and often didn't get Betty's lighter touch. Betty was a capital-E entertainer, Bea always thought of herself more of a legitimate actress.

If this really is too challenging for you to grasp, okay, enjoy your conspiracy theories, I guess.

Don’t believe the video! Believe the random shut-in making endlessly long posts.

R90 No, I'm not on the spectrum lol. And this is not a conspiracy, it's about protecting the reputation of Betty White who became a bigger star after the death of the GG women than when she was on GG. What the writers and producers of the show have said about Bea and Betty is true. Bea did come from theatre and Betty from tv, Bea was introverted, Betty extroverted and on and on. But, in my opinion, they left out the true reason behind Bea's hatred of Betty which is that Betty was making fun of Estelle starting in season 4 and Bea never forgave Betty for that.

Before season 4, Bea and Betty were friends. You don't hold hands with someone you don't like. You don't go to lunch with someone you don't like 5 days a week. If you can't understand that, then you're on spectrum. It doesn't make any sense. This doesn't mean that they had an easy friendship. Nanette Fabray once said that Bea was her good friend, but a difficult friend and that if you love someone, you accept certain things about them, that you wouldn't normally accept. I'm sure Bea and Betty had issues and frictions before season 4 but I do think their friendship ended because of Betty's behavior towards Estelle starting in late 1987, early 1988.

Correction: Season 4 started in 1988 so Bea and Betty's friendship definately ended in 88-89.

*definitely

Betty White didn’t need protecting. Everyone knew she had an edge to her in real life. She wasn’t playing against type on MTM.

R95 An edge, like she could tell dirty jokes, but not make fun of her co-star who had dementia.

No one cared—then, or now.

Side note: David Hartman holy shit that's a blast from the past and he's still alive at 90.

R97 Is living under a rock. People still care about GG 33 years after it went off the air.

Satire! You’re good—have you thought of sitcom writing?

You're right. I made up the story about Bea hating Betty because of Estelle. But it's because I didn't think you were ready for the real truth. They have been lying to us big time about the Bea/Betty feud, but the truth will be hard for you to accept. Here goes: Back in the 70's Betty joined a UFO cult. She spent all of her money on books, tapes, courses and building a spaceship. When GG started, Betty didn't have any money left. All she had was her house and pets. Betty wanted out of the cult because she realized they had been lying to her about the existence of planet Clitoria but they wouldn't let her go unless she gave them 1 million dollars. So Betty asked Bea for the money because she knew Bea had a lot of money from Maude and she was very frugal. Betty promised to pay Bea back as soon as she made enough money from GG. Bea eventually accepted because she trusted Betty and knew the show would be a huge success.

Three years later, Bea was still waiting for her money and was getting very impatient. On top of that, she learned that Betty had joined another UFO cult and had been wearing a blonde wig on the show to hide the fact that her head was completely shaved. One day, Marsha Posner called Bea and asked her why she seemed so stressed and angry at Betty and Bea said: " I saw that cunt at the grocery store! She runs away every time she sees me because she owes me a million dollars!! Cunt! Cunt! Cunt! I'm going to write this cunt a letter asking for my money! She drives around town with her new yellow Lamborghini and poodles, she had her house renovated, she throws sex parties and invites Rue and Estelle but not me. Bitch! Give me my money!" Marsha told Bea to calm down and that she had a plan. She told Bea to pretend like she wanted to leave the show. They would never let her go and instead would offer her more money. She could then recuperate the money she lost with Betty. Bea thought Marsha was a genius and she ended up making 10 million dollars more in the last 3 seasons thanks to Marsha's plan.

Bea never spoke to Betty again.

Makes more sense that way.

[quote]Bea was an incredibly immature and unpredictable woman and was probably responsible for several unsolved murders in the greater Los Angeles area.

And all these murders had one thing in common: all the victims had been viciously slapped to death with a 10-inch oblong object.

Bea's favorite word was cunt. She even called dogs she didn't like cunts.

@6:50

R54 They are reopening the OJ Simpson case. New evidence points to Bea Arthur.

R105, this makes sense, I also believe that there was recently announced a 'major breakthrough' in the Zodiac Killer cases and when you look at the available sketches, it sure looks like Bea...

Bea was a cu$$!

My Disastrous Evening With Bea Arthur

By Patrick Hinds from his book "Failure Is Not, Not An Option."

"When it was announced that Bea Arthur would be coming to receive an award from Emerson's Musical Theatre Society, Ellen Marsh, my best friend and the president of the Emerson Musical Society, knew I was the obvious choice to be Bea's host and guide for the weekend."

"Bea was flying into Logan Airport on Friday evening where I was to meet her and take her to her hotel."

"There was Bea Arthur walking through the door into the terminal."

"I could tell right away that she was in no fucking mood."

"By the looks of her this had been a particularly rough journey. The internet tells me that she was 5'10 but she loomed much larger in person. She was dressed head to toe in sweats and seemed to be wearing a powder white wig that had twisted up on her at some point in the flight without her noticing. All in all she looked a bit like a particularly pale and grumpy Andy Warhol on stilts after a long night at Studio 54."

This was in 1999. He had roses for her but she didn't accept them and told him "what the fuck are those?" lol. She kept calling him Peter instead of Patrick. When she got into the limo she was angry that there was no bar in it. After 10 pm Bea was hungry so they stopped at Pizzeria Uno restaurant because it was the only one with a bar. Bea ordered straight vodka. He felt like she would have liked him better if he had been rude to her. Bea didn't like kiss asses.

He saw her again a few years later in New York and she was very nice to him.

Patrick was probably referring to this wig.

And yes, she does look like Andy Warhol on stilts.

Wow that was a bad wig!

"Betty, get the fuck off my cloud!!!"

R90 Seek help

Why does every other famous mean drunk get a flamethrower from DL, but Bea gets excuse after excuse? Was it because she was somewhat tolerable the few times she was sober?

This isn't TEA.

That pickle-kisser Jim Colucci documented this story a decade ago in his exhaustive history of The Golden Girls.

And Betty was telling these stories even before Bea died.

[quote]Patrick was probably referring to this wig.

It looks like it's from the same Korean wig store as the cheapo white wigs they made poor Estelle Getty wear throughout the series and that screamed "fake."

Bea was a drunk. No one working on Golden Girls ever said it. Betty, Rue and Estelle never mentioned it. Only people outside of Golden Girls said that Bea was a drunk.

I had an alcoholic uncle who was a gentleman when sober and a vulgar idiot when drunk.

I'm sure Bea's drinking got worse during the Golden Girls time. It probably explains her "moods."

From season 5 you can definitely tell the effects of her heavy drinking. She was looking rough and clearly dealing in her performance. She did say in an interview that there was “way too much drink” in that period.

I can’t believe that awful wig, what on earth was she thinking, what was she wearing it?

[quote]I can’t believe that awful wig, what on earth was she thinking, what was she wearing it?

"Hic!"

"Get me another vodka goddammit!"

I bet Bea came to work drunk more than a few times, verbally attacked Betty (miserable drunks don't like happy people) and then sobered up for the taping in front of the audience. I mean Matthew Perry was able to deliver great performances on Friends while being high most of the time.

I've never heard anything about Betty making fun of Estelle because of her dementia. Rue McClanahan seemed to be the nicest of the four, and I doubt she would be okay with Betty making fun of Estelle, but they were friends until the end. Rue often said that Bea and Betty didn't get along due to a clash of personalities, and Bea's own son denied that Bea disliked Betty; she just didn't like the Betty White persona (always upbeat and funny).

There doesn't appear to be a single incident or set of incidents that caused the rift, just two very different people working alongside each other for years.

[quote] From season 5 you can definitely tell the effects of her heavy drinking. She was looking rough and clearly dealing in her performance.

Dialing it in? She was sleepwalking through the last three seasons. It wasn’t even the same character. Strong, commanding Dorothy became a mumbling shut-in with no life.

The garbage writers like that fat, ill queen Marc Cherry certainly didn’t help but it would be a challenge to find a lazier and unengaged performance than Bea’s on “Golden Girls” those last three miserable seasons.

What an ungrateful bitch.

R122 The three last seasons were great and I thought Bea was at her best.

Bea Arthur, drunk on set?? Maybe....who knows? You don't have to be drunk to find a cheerful (or phony) co-worker annoying as hell. A crippling hangover will make you hate EVERYONE.

Feud never happened.

R121, no one (credible) said Betty made fun of Estelle.

Sometimes when Estelle blew her lines, Betty would turn it into a joke for the studio audience. It infuriated Bea, who thought it was making fun of Estelle, while most thought she was trying to deflect from Estelle’s memory problems.

R125 Don't give me any ideas! I swear I don't have time for another on-set drama centered on crass old biddies!

This strange looking queen, Larry Randolph, described Bea very well:

"She is such a hot and cold woman. Sweet, rude, loving, hateful, all in a breath."

Bea definitely doesn’t sound like someone you would want in your life. Imagine the drama of never knowing what kind of mood she would be in.

R129 All the legendary stars were also mercurial bitches.

Bea Arthur. Ethel Merman. Bette Davis. Joan Crawford. Stanwyck. Pickford. Stritchie.

Don't forget Dietrich. She was a bitch supreme, but a fabulous one.

Talented but insecure human women in extraordinary circumstance’s. I might demonstrate similar behaviors.

Rue, Bea and Betty in the 70s.

Bea: "Rue, I love you now and always will. Betty, I love you now but one day, I won't be able to stand you anymore and will call you a cunt."

R133: It's more like: "Betty, I love you when I only have to see you a few times a year. But if I had to work with you daily for months and years at a time, I would hate it, and then I would hate you."

R134 Betty always claimed that she and Bea had been friends for years before the Golden Girls. They probably saw each other more than a few times a year.

If anyone hasn't purchased Golden Girls Forever: An Unauthorized Look Behind the Lanai by Jim Colucci yet, I highly recommend it.

Vivian Vance and William Frawley worked together for ten years and no one really knows what their feud was about, in any detail. They just hated each other.

Colucci's book was good, but it missed a few episodes. Did they even cover Empty Nest? I don't think Rita or Paul Dooley were interviewed.

Betty's last days. Getting old sucks doesn't it? I hope she died with a kitten or puppy in her arms.

[quote] Getting old sucks, doesn't it?

I think when you make it to 99 it's more like something amazing. She was "getting old" for about 30 years.

Was the failed Empty Nest spinoff worth examining?

Examinng how, R141? Like how is it that Rita Moreno is not remotely funny? How can Rita Moreno not pronounce the name Dorothy properly?

Betty being naughty.

I'll try to post the link again.

We can't post Youtube shorts here?

[quote] Colucci's book was good, but it missed a few episodes. Did they even cover Empty Nest? I don't think Rita or Paul Dooley were interviewed.

Rita is a cunt and rightfully embarrassed by the entire thing as she couldn’t remember any of her lines. Paul probably barely remembers doing it. He’s had such a long career. It was a paycheck.

R33, I’m a DEVOTEE of TMTMS and have never heard that Ted and Ed didn’t get along. Quite the contrary, they were such good friends, the two and their wives vacationed together

R147 I'm telling you, they didn't get along. Ed thought that Ted wanted to be the star of the show. Research it. Ed did go to Ted's funeral in 1986 however.

Betty knew she was dying soon.

r145 I could see it fine.

R147 R33 I did research and confirmed that Ed Asner and Ted Knight had a terrible falling out over politics, with Knight badmouthing Asner in a press conference in 1982, which was widely reported on in the media, after Asner was elected president of the Screen Actors Guild and his show 'Lou Grant' was cancelled. Knight had joined a group headed by Charlton Heston called Actors Working for an Actors Guild (AWAG) which opposed Asner and the SAG board of directors. Asner was an outspoken liberal who said publicly expressing his political views was done as an individual, not in his role as head of SAG. His opponents accused him of politicizing SAG.

Asked if he had watched 'Lou Grant' Knight responded:

[Quote] I could never bring myself to watch the show because I know Ed's moves so well. I know everything he does so I could never give any credibility to anything that happened or get caught up in the story.

[Quote] When I watch a show, I want to be entertained. I don't want to be lectured, nor do I wish to be bored. I have peculiar tastes and viewing habits. So I never watched Ed at all. In fact, I don't watch that much television. I don't watch my own show.

Ted Knight was diagnosed with colon cancer months after TMTMS ended and died from it in 1986 at age 62.

Ed talks a little bit about Ted here at 4:15.

"He was paranoid and jealous of me."

I think the biggest sitcom feud ever was between Will Smith and Janet Hubert-Whitten. Will had her fired after 3 years on The Fresh Prince of Bel Air even though she was great as Aunt Viv and had her replaced with Daphne Reed. Janet spent the rest of her life blaming Will for destroying her career.

R153 Will and Janet had a sincere public reconciliation in 2020 and became personal friends.

R154 That's nice. But he did ruin her career.

[quote]Ted Knight was diagnosed with colon cancer months after TMTMS ended and died from it in 1986 at age 62.

So Too Close For Comfort was all a fever dream???

r156 Dates

R156 The show ended in the late 70s.

R156 After his initial cancer diagnosis in 1977, Ted Knight received treatment, and the cancer went into remission. He kept his illness private, went on to star in 'Too Close for Comfort' later renamed 'The Ted knight Show'. He was again diagnosed with cancer in 1985. Ten of the final episodes of the show were aired after his 1986 death.

From People Magazine, March 16, 2025:

[Quote] Knight was diagnosed with colon cancer shortly after Mary Tyler Moore ended. The cancer returned in 1985, and Knight died in 1986. He was 62.

I always hated Ted Knight

Maybe create a new thread for these off-topic discussions?

I find it very hard to believe that Will Smith would start a fight with someone.

r161 Maybe create your own?

This is a Golden Girls thread and they are terribly rare here.

Yes, we must protect it at all costs.

If Betty was such a cunt, others in the business would have come forward and said "Bea was right. Betty was a two-faced cunt." But nobody did. Betty must have worked with millions of people over the years but only Bea couldn't stand her. Oh, Sally Struthers said that Betty didn't want her to eat a cookie because she was too fat. Who cares. Everyone else only had wonderful things to say about Betty.

And speaking of being two-faced, Bea was classy in public but drunk and vulgar in private. She was also a liar. That's being two-faced. Her love Angela was a sweet little angel in public and a dirty girl in private. Also two-faced. Nothing wrong with that. Most people are two-faced hypocrites. Bea should have looked in the mirror once in a while.

R166, seek help.

Bea shit on Betty’s dressing room floor. Classy.

r168 / r78 Give it up, already

R110- I just pray to the Gods that it was not a RATTY Korean wig.

Bea never defecated on Betty's floor.

Mark Cherry made an appearance on the Golden Girls podcast and explained the origin of the story.

The cast had been given dressing rooms with private bathrooms, which could only be accessed from their dressing rooms. Once, upon returning from the weekend, Betty noted that someone had taken a dump in her toilet. She knew because the perp had failed to flush the toilet afterwards. She reported the incident because it meant that someone had been in her dressing room, which was a security issue. (Perhaps it was a housekeeping staffer.)

Cherry said that the press in another country twisted the story around (maybe even accidentally) and reported that the perp was Bea and the dump had been taken on the floor instead of the toilet.

Rita Moreno didn't forget her lines. She's not that bad an actress.

She said they kept re-writing the script all week, and everyone was working with material written just ten minutes prior. She had a miserable time with it, because they clearly didn't know what they wanted and it felt like a waste of her time.

I would like to hear how the Empty Nest spinoff (Golden Girls episode and all) came to be.

It seems they loved David Leisure enough to have him be the only actor they kept on. But how did the whole Weston family dynamic come to be?

R173, David Leisure was quite a cultural phenomenon at the time because of his appearance in Izuzu automobile commercials as "Joe Izuzu," who was essentially the same character he would play on Empty Nest. I recall my stepfather, who was a big car guy but NOT a Witt/Thomas/Harris sort of guy commenting to a friend that "Joe Izuzu" had gotten his own tv show.

I haven't thought of David Leisure in ages. Totally forgotten now.

David Leisure is queer. Not that it matters.

R176 He was married three times to women. What makes you think he's queer?

R172 = Rita Moreno.

Have you noticed that in the last 10-15 years THEY (whoever THEY are) have been doing everything they can to destroy the positive image of the celebrities and tv shows from the past we used to love? Can't watch The Cosby Show anymore because Bill was a rapist. Can't watch Roseanne anymore because Ro's gone crayzay. The reboots of her show were horrible, unfunny and sinister and she now hates all of her former co-stars. Can't watch The Golden Girls anymore because Bea spent most of her free time calling Betty a cunt. Can't listen to Michael Jackson anymore because he was a child molester. Can't listen to Madonna anymore because she's an alien now. Can't watch anything with Kevin Spacey in it because he's a pervert. I could go on but you get my point. It's like they want us to detach from the past, realize that it was all a lie and embrace the shitty present its crappy, no-talent celebrities.

^^and embrace the shitty present and its crappy, no-talent celebrities.^^

R179 Because it's FUN to tear down a beloved celebrity. It makes a loser feel productive to cut against the grain, and be different.

Betty was funny.

R171 I always thought that the stars of a big hit show like Golden Girls would have big luxury trailers , like the women on Desperate Housewives had. Are personal trailers not that common for TV stars?

Sitcoms are filmed on a soundstage, so there are dressing rooms and not trailers.

Trailers are typically for shows shot on location.

Shows done on a soundstage have dressing rooms.

R148, I believe you! I’m just shocked I’d never heard it before. I never actually cared for Ted.

It depends on the studio and the series.

The Paramount lot is famous for sticking its actors in trailers between soundstages. The Star Trek casts had trailers, as did the Cheers actors, and this went on for years at a time. The lot has a few swanky bungalows, but those are all reserved for high-dollar production teams and writers' rooms. Ted Danson, Patrick Stewart, Kelsey Grammer, Andy Griffith, and those assholes from Wings all spent years in tinpot trailers stuffed down random alleys.

I'm pretty sure I've seen rows of white trailers outside of sound stages (or in another area, of their own) on the few times I've been in a movie/TV facility.

(With the stars hanging out there.)

Doing a show on a sound stage is such a privilege for actors. They aren’t setting up new locations and re-lighting each scene. They are not subjected to the weather.

I know an actress who works a lot in high profile projects, and I once asked her which she preferred, a sound stage or location?? And she looked at me like I was mad. She said she had spent the last three days, at the height of a heat wave, shooting scenes on a lot in Brooklyn, wearing a heavy overcoat and rubber boots. Stuff that is shot on sound stages gets done on schedule.

Location is fucking brutal. The idiot locals gawk at you. They have to clear the street and watch the weather. It's usually within the thirty-mile zone, so you have to drive yourself. And the crew goes out and gets drunk during union break, so it takes twice as long to get one in the can.

You never want to delay getting it in the can.

I haven't gotten one in the can for years.

What the fuck does any of this nonsense have to do with “The Golden Girls?”

Bea didn’t need to aim for the can when she shit on Betty’s dressing room floor!

She was headed for the can but she didn't make it.

2022 Closer Magazine article about The Golden Girls.

"Bea Arthur arrived at Estelle Getty’s 75th birthday party with a big plastic bag. “She beelined to Estelle and just threw this bag — a heavy one! — to me,” Richard Weaver, Estelle Getty’s longtime personal assistant, exclusively recalls to Closer. “Bea said, ‘Happy birthday, Ma. Here’s a [freaking] brisket.’ It was an inside joke because they’re both Jewish. She literally brought her a brisket!”

"On most days, Bea, Rue and Betty ate lunch together so they could rehearse over the meal. “Estelle preferred to go to her trailer to study her lines,” explains Dan Watt, Bea’s personal assistant for the last six years of her life."

"Bea could also be very generous. Because Betty was a huge animal lover, “Bea would have a Seeing Eye dog trained in Betty’s name for Christmas,” says Weaver. When Rue was despondent over her divorce, Bea sent her plane tickets and invited Rue to stay in her home while she recovered. Yet Bea’s closest Golden Girls friendship was with Estelle, who played her mother, Sophia on the show. “Bea lost her real mother during the taping of Golden Girls, and she looked to Estelle as a mother at that point,” says Weaver. “Estelle coddled her.”

"Bea repaid this kindness by standing by Estelle, who suffered from stage fright and sometimes struggled to remember her lines. “There was an insecure part of Estelle because she was up against these powerhouse veterans,” says Weaver. “Bea told me there were times that she would go to Estelle’s dressing room and help calm her down. That’s when Bea became the mother figure in their relationship.”

How did Estelle eat in her trailer when they didn't have trailers? Also, Bea said in 2001 during her Television Academy Foundation interview that she had just recently learned that Estelle was absolutely terrified during The Golden Girls. I guess Rue told her. But if Bea didn't know, then she couldn't have gone to Estelle's dressing room to calm her down.

So many mysteries surrounding GG.

[quote] "He was paranoid and jealous of me."

No one was jealous is Ed Asner whose politics came down to getting murderers like Mumia out of prison. He was a moron.

It’s interesting that the gay writers of The Golden Girls are now coming out and saying that the set was very homophobic and they had to stay closeted.

It's ironic.

Isn’t it?

Bea's 2005 interview with Emerson College. The man interviewing her is Bill Dana who played Uncle Angelo on The Golden Girls. Bea is a little hard to look at because she's so skinny but she already had cancer at that time and cancer will turn you into a walking corpse. Good interview though. Bea was friends with Bill and she's still a bit impatient with him during the interview. You can see Bea's hot and cold personality here. I can't imagine how she was with people she didn't like.

Bill "Jose Jimenez" Dana?

Yes R203.

Did Bea have the doo doo cancer?

R205 No, she died of lung cancer. She was a smoker.

Didn't all the GG's smoke? At least at the time the show was airing?

Bea, Rue and Estelle were all smokers.

Betty wasn't a smoker but she loved hot dogs and fast food in general. Maybe that's why she lived to almost 100.

Eat more hot dogs!