Do you find the whole Vatican thang creepy?

I was raised Catholic. It's not so much creepy as just... awful and weird. But to an outsider I could see how it's creepy. Catholics really are pagan-like, ritualistic, theatrical, superstitious and, well, backwards. There's clearly a gay aesthetic to it all even while they're condemning homosexuality.

I think it is interesting

Because you aren't Catholic, R2

It always seemed so culty to me. I've heard so many people say "well, I'm Catholic" as an excuse/reason/explanation for so much stuff. Like it's a conversation ender.

But there seems to be a lot fewer assholes in Catholicism than in mainline Protestant churches - don't get me started on the Evangelical ones, those are all bat shit crazy.

They seem to take things with a grain of salt and have a good sense of humor about it. I'm sure there are some hard-core strict ones - or maybe I've just met culturally-Catholic people.

The idea of this elected Bishop of Rome to guide you and tell you what to do just feels icky to me. And that you should follow him over your own politicians or instincts.

But not my circus, not my monkeys.

Catholics are diverse, even the practicing ones. There's a huge difference between someone who leads a secular life but was raised in Catholic schools and takes comfort from rituals like the rosary or confession, and hard core holy rollers raised in a different denomination who convert later in life because they see Catholicism as the most conservative/traditional form of (right-wing prosperity gospel) "Christianity."

R5 - Yeah, I've noticed a lot of Republican officials convert to Catholicism. It's so weird. Uh - Newt Gingrich - those two previous divorces, divorcing your cancer-ridden wife in the hospital to marry your younger colleague you were cheating on her with - I don't think that gets magically washed away because you became a Catholic.

JD Vance turned Catholic too. Not that I think either one of them has a religious bone in their bodies - but I don't get the conversions.

Contrast JD Vance -- Protestant-raised conservative who converted later in life -- with Joe Biden, who was raised Catholic.

I'm a lifelong atheist, but I have always found Catholicism intriguing and kind of mystical with all of its rituals and ceremonies. I love visiting the Vatican and all those grand old cathedrals. Obviously creepy things happen within the Church, but it's the same in every other religion and institution. There will always be people abusing their power.

For whatever reason, DL is a hub for Catholics and fellow travelers. I don’t get THAT.

R8 - nah - they don't get the free pass because 'all religions do it'. The sheer scale of some of Catholic church's wrongdoings and abuse is just off the charts. Some of that is because of its very size around the world - but also because of how cozy the Catholic church is with foreign governments and leaders.

They had hundreds of thousands of abuse claims and cases - they knew about it for decades if not over a century and just moved the priests around and had them pray (prey is a better term).

The Catholic church forced young women into lifetime servitude in Magdalene laundries, making money off their labor and selling their children out into adoption.

The Vatican Bank has been the subject of a lot of corruption, money-laundering and illegal activities with their real estate holdings.

No other church or denomination comes even remotely close to what they've done. Of course, the wealth, size and power of Catholic Church allows that to happen more readily - but it is definitely not the same as other denominations or other religions.

I like the ceremony, the architecture and even some of the elements of the hierarchy. But in a broader sense (and I'm talking out of my ass here), I kinda feel like it's the final form of the Roman bastardization of Greek cultural elements like temples and gymnasiums where philosophers would speak & teach, the antithesis of an earlier progressive educational system based on truth, rationality, and debate. They subverted positive attributes of ancient culture to instead build a system of orthodoxy, control and good old exploitation. Gnostics tried to salvage some of that ancient attraction towards science & religious/philosophical fellowship within a true brotherhood, but they were shut down early on for obvious reasons. So mankind, especially the church, continues to grapple with anti-intellectualism and homophobia, even if the boldface exploitation has at least somewhat waned. Gorgeous vestments though.

R4, we're like the Brits and their royal family. We generally ignore the pope. I started paying attention to Francis, when he pushed us to be better persons to the poor, to migrants, and the environment. I loved it when he said, "Who am I to judge?" about gay priests.

Long ago I came to terms with being a gay man, so I ignored what popes said about same-sex desire and sex. I believe that if there is a God, God has more important concerns than with the man I have consensual sex with or what man I fantasize about when I jerk off.

BPC, I love you. You said it best.

Too tired to respond about being a Catholic, right now.