Katharine Hepburn’s hatred of Meryl Steep

Katharine Hepburn is mostly forgotten with anyone under aged 60. Meryl Streep will still be an institution 100 years from now.

Kate was a well known bulldagger dyke. Meryl probably turned down Hepburn's quavery advances early on in her career... and thus the vow for vengeful anihilation was made.

Katharine, herself, wasn't even close to the being the most memorable Golden Age Actress. Nevermind her four Oscars.

She was never close to The Being.

Meryl wouldn't lick her dry crusty twat.

When they were nominated against each other for the Oscar it was Kate who won, so she had the last laugh.

Hepburn’s criticism was pretty mild. She said the same thing (tick, tick, tick) about her niece’s performance in Guess Who’s Coming to Diner.

She said Glenn Close had no business walking around barefoot on stage with those “big, ugly feet.”

Harmless bitchiness.

They’re both legends. There is no need to pit one against the other because one doesn’t appeal to you.

Hepburn played the same character her entire career. Jealousy. Pure and simple. Her range ran the gamut from A to B.

Also, I love Dietrich but she was rather ugly, really.

If there EVER was an actress of whom "tick tick tick" could be said, it was K. Hepburn.

I'm with R7. This is stupid. They both have their positives and negatives. They also have a lot in common. Example: both are impressively proficient at their craft but wildly overrated. Both also have undeserved Academy Awards.

OP- I don't care what this dues paying member of DAUGHTERS OF BILITIS has or had to say about Meryl Streep

Katharine Hepburn was a snob. Katharine Hepburn spent enormous energy maintaining her fake persona, so much for so long she believed it was true.

Oh, Kate.

Her whole shtick as an actress can pretty much be reduced to this long-ago SNL skit with Martin Short as her distant cousin who worked a hot dog cart.

I do wonder which Streep movies besides Prada we’ll be watching in thirty years. Her dramatic films are already mostly forgotten.

Not even comparable. Hepburn and Dietrich (and Davis) were all from an entirely different era of acting, style and technique-wise. Not to mention what audiences wanted/liked. And what worked for the screen then.

And Streep...realism? LOL!

Death Becomes Her could have just a little staying power for all of its camp.

But you’re right R14, overall. Most younger movie fans would never opt to sit through the entirety of Sophie’s Choice or Out Of Africa (with Meryl as its white colonizer heroine)

R1 is dangerously delusional! Someone call a doctor!

Streep, Hepburn, Davis, etc -- they'll all be remembered in the same breath many years from now. Celebrities don't stay current; only the contemporary ones have real fans. And fans all die. As do the stars and the memories.

So true, R18. A young person listening to me talk about Madonna would be equivalent to my ‘80s teenage self listening to an old person talking about Dinah Shore.

[quote] A young person listening to me talk about Madonna would be equivalent to my ‘80s teenage self listening to an old person talking about Dinah Shore.

So many here don't understand that. We're further from Madonna's debut in 1982ish than we were from the bombing of Pearl Harbor in 1941 at the time Madonna debuted.

[quote] Marlene Dietrich spent her last days writing Ugly and Pig on photos of Streep.

This made me laugh out loud. I could totally see Marlene doing that, drunk in bed in Paris.

Hepburn, Dietrich, Davis, Crawford, Gable, Cooper, Bogart, John Wayne, etc., were all Golden Age superstars whose larger than life personae shown through with every performance and movie audiences ate it up. If ever they played against type, as Gable had done as a song & dance man in Idiot's Delight, it usually flopped with their fans.

Respected actors like Paul Muni and Fredric March were known for their versatility and ability to disappear in their roles, but in doing so, they never developed a superstar persona like their peers above.

Meryl Streep is like the Paul Muni of actresses. She disappears in her roles, but could one actually describe the Meryl Streep movie star persona? You can impersonate Hepburn, Davis, Bogart, but Meryl Streep? I think that bugged a lot of Old Hollywood types who bristled at her being hailed as the best of her generation. But I do find much of her earlier performances to be very technical and studied, so maybe Hepburn's criticism was valid.

Davis had more range than Hepburn. And Davis wasn't afraid of looking absolutely hideous if the part called for it. Baby Jane, for example. No other major actress of that era would've dared to look and act as grotesque as Davis did in that role.

And Stanwyck didn’t care how many people called her a dyke when she went from western to western in the 1950s.

Meryl on Bette...

Stars are stars for a particular aspect, Streep like Daniel Day Lewis is a star because of her 'acting' and the preparation/research/technique she utilizes is what makes her a star. Like Day Lewis, inevitably the press done on Streep before every film she is promoting invariably touches on her acting. The acting in and of itself becomes the 'star' quality. I would contend that watching Streep act is as hypnotic and appealing to the viewer as Bogart, Monroe or Grant's lauded charisma, you can't take your eyes off of her. Whether or not her performances are realistic or emotionally effective to audiences to another story, but her 'acting' is hypnotic in and of itself.

Thank you R24. Stanwyck beats them all as far I'm concerned. But the real difference between Streep and Hepburn is the ability to dive into the character and create a different person. I love Hepburn, but it is always- really- what would such and such be liked if they were Hepburn. Davis and Streep have far more in common because Davis could get down and dirty in her roles. I agree with R22 that Streep is very much like Paul Muni. R1 if your generation forgets Hepburn then your generation is full of idiots. You see there were movies made before 1980. They may act different but they can still create art. Perhaps your generation doesn't care enough about anything to invest the time to really watch great films by Davis, Hepburn, and Stanwyck. But Streep- who be remembered a100 years from now- according to you-watched and studied all of them. And we still talk about Chaplin, Gish, Buster Keaton- and they are way over 100 years ago.

I don’t know if this sister of SAPPHO is hated Meryl Streep but I do know she disliked Jane Fonda.

I like her sister Audrey better. And I think Audrey is more known now than Kate is.

R8, Hepburn acknowledged this multiple times in the few interviews she gave. She never held herself up as a great actress. (“A dessert, not the meat and potatoes of a production.”) She over praised Tracy but she wasn’t wrong about him coming off as more authentic.

*rant below not directed at r8* She helped Angela Lansbury land State of the Union and she went out of her way to highlight Judy Holliday‘s talent in Adam’s Rib because she was not a sure thing for the movie version of Born Yesterday the year before it was made. She also praised Vanessa Redgrave endlessly.

She was prickly, but she was also kind and generous. I think a lot of people here don’t realize the discipline, need for privacy and loyalty she learned from her upbringing. She was an atheist, but she loved humanity and would always stop on the side of the road to help someone with a flat tire. Can you see Meryl Streep doing that? Maybe, she seems like a very nice lady too.

Spence once humiliated me at a dinner party by telling me to, “take that feather out of your ass while you’re at it!”

It hurt, but he was right and I would suggest that many on this thread do the same.

Kate made one great film. Her performance in “The Lion In Winter” is the perfect fit for her detached demeanor.

Her performances in Long Day’s Journey and Bringing Up Baby were also very fine.

She’s merely serviceable in the rest.

Davis made several great films: All About Eve, Now Voyager, Of Human Bondage, Baby Jane, Dark Victory. I’m not a Davis fan, per se. But she delivered time and again.

Stanwyck is the greatest film actress. In my opinion, of course. She straddled westerns, noir, dramas, romantic comedies,, silents, suspense (Sorry Wrong Number, a great one — but The Locked Door is better, suspense wise. And a lot more fun), even sang a bit (Lady if Burlesque, Ball of Fire). She’d have been perfect for Mildred Pierce, as she was for Meet John Doe, Miracle Woman, . Double Indemnity, Ladies of Leisure, Stella Dallas, Baby Face and The Lady Eve. The last two are absolute perfection. And I’ll go to my grave saying she was robbed when she wasn’t cast in On Golden Pond. She would have been spectacular— none of Kate’s hammy blathering. The slap alone. And she’d have won her competitive Oscar.

Leigh was very, very good. Waterloo Bridge is really something. And, of course, Streetcar.

Garland remains supremely underrated as an actress. Check out The Clock, Fir Me And My Gal, and A Star is Born.

Signoret, Page, Maggie Smith were brilliant. Ingrid Bergman was a very, very fine actress.

But Katherine? Give me Audrey Hepburn before Kate.

Streep is staggering. I’d rank her alongside Stanwyck. I wouldn’t put Kate Hepburn near any of the women I mentioned.

Streep’s greatest role is Sophie’s Choice. But what she does in Bridges of Madison County is some of her best work. The film is terribly marred by the conceit of her kids discovering who she was. But she’s really terrific.

A Cry In The Dark, Kramer, Prada, Iron Lady (there’s a scene where she’s caught talking to her husband, long dead, and the subtlety in her eyes is brilliant), Silkwood, Africa, Postcards. It’s an embarrassment of riches.

Whatever.

Bette Davis could out act all the chicks in this thread.

Bette was very versatile in her movie roles, r34, but she couldn't do comedy to save her life.

Some people would call All About Eve a comedy and Bette ruled supreme with that performance.

Streep hasn't been interesting since Prada. She impersonates her roles now, it's all "Great Lady of Acting" schtick. She let the hype get to her. And it turned off audiences. Iron Lady and Julia Child are dramatic Tracey Ullman sketches. Don't even get me started on making Florence Jenkins an unsung hero. Talk about not even getting the joke. Most of her acclaim was due to a general laziness from critics and Hollywood who have never been keen on casting AARP actresses in lead roles.

Hepburn may not be the best actress, but she knew how to pace herself and how to milk her icon status. She was a beloved icon and still winning oscars in her 70's. You were never told to accept her the way you were with Streep. I also found a classiness to her in how she handled things.

Meryl meanwhile is on camera giving the finger to the audience at an SNL anniversary special and showing up as a part of an entourage to the Grammys last year for no reason and engaging in showmances with Martin Short. She's plunging into stunts, something Dunaway has too much class to even do.

[quote]Some people would call All About Eve a comedy

And most people would call it a dramedy, r36.

[quote]I also found a classiness to her in how she handled things.

Katharine Hepburn was the Holy Grail for Datalounge eldergays: A mid-century New England WASP. Bigger than God and Jesus put together.

She was a lecherous hag as she got older, it wouldn't shock me if she made a play for Meryl.

R21

After a few glasses of Champagne she was on a roll. She read tons of Newspapers and magazines and after she scribbled her "comments on them she stuffed them in an evnvelope and sent it to her daughter.

BTW.Even tough she hated Liz because of some overlapping of lovers, she called everybody she still knew in Hollywood and told them to show up for Taylors AIDS charitys.

My favorite Kate movie is SUMMERTIME. She was very touching and vulnerable as the lonely spinster looking for love in Venice. No mannerisms or high handed soliloquies, just acting.

r41 Dietrich had a vicious sense of humor. She also hated fraus. She could've been on DL.

Hepburn's best film is actually "Alice Adams." She's also excellent in "Long Day's Journey into Night," "Bringing Up Baby," and "Adam's Rib."

She's too mannered in "The Lion in Winter."

Let's not forget Kate in The Philadelphia Story, a truly iconic performance.

Not yet mentioned but also unforgettable in Little Women, Holiday, Woman of the Year, The African Queen, Adam's Rib, Pat & Mike and Desk Set.

The biggest problem with Streep is that so many of her movies have not aged well. Even when she's terrific, the films themselves often become less and less interesting as time moves on. She's so enjoyable in "Julie and Julia," but the parts with Julie are almost unwatchable.

Of her films, the ones i predict people will still likely watch in the future are: "Sophie's Choice," "Silkwood," "Ironweed," "The Devil Wears Prada," and "Adaptation."

But several of the others, even when she delivers superb performances, just are not very watchable now: "The French Lieutenant's Woman," "Out of Africa," "The River Wild," "Kramer vs. Kramer," "Music of the Heart," "The Iron Lady." "Postcards from the Edge" is still fun to watch, and she has a few superb moments in it, but she's miscast--she was too old for the part, and she just never seems like the sort of person who would ever have substance abuse issues.

[quote]"Postcards from the Edge" is still fun to watch, and she has a few superb moments in it, but she's miscast--she was too old for the part, and she just never seems like the sort of person who would ever have substance abuse issues.

That's what I've always thought. She was 50 and looked it, her character was supposed to be about a decade younger. And you just can't picture Meryl as a junkie.

Shirley Maclaine, however, was perfect.

Sorry I meant she was 40 and looked 50, she looked too old.

I know Mike Nichols was done with Melanie Griffith after Working Girl, but I think she would have been great as Suzanne Vale. She was age appropriate and nobody would have a hard time believing her as a recovering addict/daughter of a movie star. In her lane, Griffith was quite good.

R46 I’m glad you mentioned “Ironweed.” It may make the list of the ten most depressing movies ever made, but I love it—I also love the novel and the others in the Albany cycle. Nicholson is, of course, the core of the movie, but Streep does fine work, especially in the scene in which she runs into friends from her debutante days and tries to explain herself by saying she’s been touring Europe, playing classical piano concerts. It’s hilarious and heartbreaking at the same time. And Streep draws in the ghosts of days at Vassar to show the devastation of Helen.

Ironweed is no Dragon Seed.

I don't care what this lifelong subscriber to THE LADDER has or had to say about our dear Mary Louise Streep.

[quote]r49 I think Melanie Griffith would have been great as Suzanne Vale. She was age appropriate and nobody would have a hard time believing her as a recovering addict/daughter of a movie star.

I simply don't like try-hard Jamie Lee Curtis... but when I was reading that novel I imagined her in the role.

Ya know. Mike Nichols directed Postcards right after directing Working Girl. How much of the movie Suzanne Vail was Carrie Fisher? and how much of it was based on Nichols' experience having just directed Melanie Griffith?

The Gene Hackman character might have been based on Nichols himself.

From 1938 to 1940, Katharine Hepburn went trough what was the most pivotal phase of her career – being declared box office poison, leaving Hollywood and moving back east, finally making it big on Broadway and then returning triumphantly, very much on her own terms, to making films.

During this period, she made only three films – Bringing Up Baby, Holiday and The Philadelphia Story – in retrospect, one of the most remarkable hat tricks pulled by any actor from Hollywood Golden Age. All these films were romantic comedies, in all of them she played privileged New England heiresses who looked and sounded like Katharine Hepburn – or, as people like to say, she “played a version of herself” (well, not exactly, but never mind). They all costarred Cary Grant, two of them were directed by George Cukor, her go-to collaborator.

Yet – Susan Vance, Linda Seton and Tracy Lord are three distinctively different characters. They look differently (ok, it has something to do with the fact that these films were made in three studios - RKO, Columbia and MGM – but still). Each has her own speech pattern, disposition and posture. But more significant – they had vastly diverse takes on Life, motivations and approaches. Put these three in the same room and they will have nothing to do with each other.

The main purpose of acting is not necessarily to show of the skills (which too often translate to “being chameleon-like”) of the actor but to best serve the character one is playing in the context of the vehicle one is in. And Hepburn did just this, brilliantly, in these three films as she did in Little Women, Alice Adams, quite a few of her films with Tracy, The African Queen, Summertime, Suddenly Last Summer and Long Day’s Journey into Night. And if it pleases you – The Lion in Winter.

She did OK.

I’m not sure why some of you think Streep’s legacy will last 100 years from now. Most people have never even seen Sophie’s Choice. For instance, on Letterboxd it only has about 7k user reviews. The film of hers most people have seen is Mamma Mia! (which has 278k reviews). If she’s remembered at all, it’ll be as a mediocre singer.

Meryl Streep is similar to Whitney Houston. Impressive in her day but with a mostly mediocre, disposable catalogue. For all of her so-called hits, Houston will be remembered for her performance of the national anthem. She hit a lot of impressive notes in a lot of not very memorable songs. The same is true of Streep.

[quote] Meryl Streep is similar to Whitney Houston.

And they both agreed: CRACK is WHACK!!

Kate and Meryl have one thing in common, and that is that they are both nauseatingly overrated.

[quote] Meryl Streep is similar to Whitney Houston. Impressive in her day but with a mostly mediocre, disposable catalogue. For all of her so-called hits, Houston will be remembered for her performance of the national anthem. She hit a lot of impressive notes in a lot of not very memorable songs. The same is true of Streep.

This is a perfect comparison, and I agree. Whitney's discography is mediocre; most people only remember "I Will Always Love You" and her rendition of The National Anthem. She was always a singles artist celebrated for her vocal prowess but never known for delivering a classic album that stood the test of time.

The same is true with Meryl. Most people remember the accents, mimicry, makeup transformations, and technical aspects of her performances, while the movies are never celebrated as classics. I would say her legacy will be similar to Laurence Olivier's, but Olivier did a ton of theater along with films, which cemented him as one of the greatest actors of his generation. His film legacy is mostly forgotten.

[quote] Katharine Hepburn is mostly forgotten with anyone under aged 60. Meryl Streep will still be an institution 100 years from now.

Yeah, right. What products of pre-1926 popular culture do you regularly consume? And you’re right. Streep is huge among the under-30s.

I dare any of you to sit through Out of Africa.

Streep is truly the Helen Hayes of out age. One of the immortals!

And the average American has no idea who Helen Hayes is.

All fame is fleeting.

If you’re an actor who wants to be remembered, you need to be just good enough to be chosen by a director for a great film. In 50 years more people will probably be familiar with Kim Novak’s acting than with Streep’s because Novak was cast in Vertigo.

[quote] cs. I would say her legacy will be similar to Laurence Olivier's, but Olivier did a ton of theater along with films, which cemented him as one of the greatest actors of his generation. His film legacy is mostly forgotten.

Olivier was also a bit of a ham who couldn’t do a foreign accent at all

R59, that’s EVERYONE’S problem.

R55: Tracy Lord was from Mainline Philly, where Hepburn got her speech pattern while attending Bryn Mawr, so not New England. She's presented as having a connection to Quakerism. Her roles in Holiday and Philadelphia Story are actually pretty similar.

Kate often had a distracted quality when acting… as if still fixated on the various razzle dazzle starlet muffs she’d cleaned out with her tongue the night before.

Kate cleaned out her BFF Laura Harding's muff for 70 years.

I don't think Hepburn hated Streep, but I do think Hepburn was bitchy which is a bad look for people at end of life. She probably was jealous that Meryl was picking up Oscar nominations so quickly and threatened to surpass her in nominations.

By virtue of how many films she appeared in over multiple decades, Streep will be remembered the same as Hepburn and Davis. Even if it's primarily for The Devil Wears Prada, people will continue to watch Death Becomes Her, Kramer v. Kramer, and other films in her canon.

I do think no one will ever be as popular as these women, or have as much longevity, because the movie industry is rapidly falling apart. This is due to streaming, videogames, cartoons, and Marvel/DCU films that are completely forgettable.

Kramer v. Kramer was basically a Lifetime movie before Lifetime movies were a thing. All That Jazz should've won Best Picture instead of that shitfest.

Streep will outlive Hepburn because: 1) her films are in color 2) she never used the fake mid-Atlantic accent. Hepburn was great in her time, but her films will always feel much more dated than Streep's.

Hepburn had a ton more range compared to Davis, Hepburn was excellent in theatre, including Shakespeare and was superb in comedy. Davis never had comedic chops and never did anything of Hepburn's quality on stage.

Of actresses from the second half of the 20th century it will probably be Our Faye who will be best remembered as she appeared in multiple landmark films: Bonnie and Clyde, Chinatown, Network

Ms Hepburn was quite fond of me and wisely predicted I would be a star. Meryl was too homely Ms Hepburn's eclectic tastes.

Faye and Meryl will both be remembered for playing lady bosses in Network and The Devil Wears Prada.

[quote]R70 I don't think Hepburn hated Streep, but I do think Hepburn was bitchy which is a bad look for people at end of life.

Jane Fonda has frequently said that Hepburn did not like her, and flat out told her so the first time they met.

The old bat was something of a cunt - probably because she grew up with great (white) privilege and was never told no.

And how do you think Streep grew up? She got a PR agent after graduating Yale, which is almost unheard of for any rising actress. Not even Sigourney Weaver, who came from more wealth and privilege did that.

I also agree with Streep's dramas not holding up well at all, and they're barely even seen on TV. Bridges was a HUGE deal in the mid 90's, but now it's all but forgotten. Sophie's Choice is considered one of the greatest performances ever given by an actress, but it's been ages since it's been aired on TV (except maybe for a TCM academy award month once go around). For all the hoopla over how great a dramatic actress she is, her two movies that have legs are comedies (Death Becomes Her and Prada)

She's already been bested in Best Actress trophies. Frances McDormand has three for Best Actress (along with a fourth for producing) so she's tied with Hepburn with the most oscars, and second in Best Actress trophies. It took ages for Streep to win her second Best Actress oscar, and even then it was with the help of Harvey Weinstein. She's now in her longest drought for nominations since her career started.

Hate on Kate all you want, but it's not going to be Streep who will best her record.

Streep does have a record number of Oscar nominations, though, which must mean something...

Who cares if Meryl got a PR person? They all do. It's weird how much Datalounge is obsessed with denigrating her accomplishments.

Of her films, my favorites are The Deer Hunter, The Devil Wears Prada, Death Becomes Her, Defending Your Life, and It's Complicated, which even Quentin Tarantino loves. Movie goers love her.

How Katherine Hepburn got as far as she did is a mystery to me. She has one of the most irritating voices I've ever heard.

[quote]r81 How Katherine Hepburn got as far as she did is a mystery to me. She has one of the most irritating voices I've ever heard.

Her sister Audrey was an even bigger star, and helped her through some tough times.

Goddamn nepo baby.

To R67, with love.

[quote] Who cares if Meryl got a PR person? They all do. It's weird how much Datalounge is obsessed with denigrating her accomplishments.

It seems weird to you because you don’t know how to read. It wasn’t a criticism. It was a refutation of a factual claim In another post.

Happy 118th birthday, Kate.

Kate was originally offered the role of Alexis on DYNASTY. It’s tragic she declined doing the show.

R73: You're delusional. Hepburn couldn't play unsympathetic parts like Davis did and was unwilling to look grotesque. Hepburn plays flinty upper middle class New England women and does as much with them as a anyone could.

Streep had a supporting role in Deer Hunter. John Savage is more memorable in that film. Kramer v. Kramer is a notch up from Lifetime, but no classic. It's based on a rather slight, popular novel which usually is the easiest thing to adapt for film---a screenwriter has more latitude to develop character and scenes.

It's difficult to know what will be remembered from her ear--the blockbusters like Star Wars and the more recent franchises may linger longer in imagination, although they are a mixed bag. Still, I doubt that Harrison Ford and others who have done well in these genres will be remembered as a great actor.

[quote]It's difficult to know what will be remembered from her ear

Perhaps that particularly grainy, greenish lump of wax.

It also should be noted that Hepburn's senility was ongoing for longer than usually realized. She became accusatory and paranoid, always with that tone of hers. And she'd be okay and suddenly go off.

Bacall, a lifelong friend, quit visiting her because of how she got the treatment later in Hepburn's life. Hepburn accused her of theft or something.

TRUE, R88

Meant R89.

I think Hepburn in Long Days Journey into Night is one of the great screen performances.

Hepburn lacked tact. Not everyone was deserving of her forthrightness and rudeness.

Both Hepburn and Davis would be fun to have drinks with but after a few hours they’d be exhausting to be around. Especially Hepburn, with her big mouth.

R29- Rose you made the funniest comment on this thread LOL.

r89 She stole my Arby's Winter Tulip Tumblers! The nerve of that woman.

People write the most stupid things in books.

I thought Katherine Hepburn was someone who died about a hundred years ago.

Off topic, but I hate that the Hepburn-Tracy love affair bullshit hasn't been exposed yet. It's widely known she was a lesbian and he was gay and they bearded for each other.

I never cared for her much - she didn't have that much range and seemed like an aloof, preachy old money bitch.

Rosie Greer also loathed The Rock

Out of Africa, Sophie's Choice, The French Lieutenant's Woman, Still of the Night, Ironweed, She-Devil, One True Think, Music of the Heart, Suffragette, The Iron Lady, Florence Foster Jenkins, Plenty Still of the Night, The Post, Falling in Love, Marvin's Room, Heartburn, Ricki and the Flash, August: Osage County, Julie & Julia, Dancing at Lughnasa, Kramer vs. Kramer, Mamma Mia! . . . are best forgotten and are.

R99 I don't understand how they "bearded" for each other when the affair wasn't publicly acknowledged until around 1990 when Katherine's autobiography was released.

^ It was well know for decades. Closet case writer Garson Kanin outed them as a couple in his 1971 book.

Famous Kath[bold]a[/bold]rines:

Hepburn, Ross, Houghton, McPhee-Foster

Famous Kath[bold]e[/bold]rines:

Helmond, Heigl, Jackson, Kelly Lang

R103 I don't think the general publ8c knew about it when it was going on, which would be the purpose of bearding.

I think they loved each other, even if they may have had other things going on.

Basically, they both liked the pole AND the hole.

Don't think so, R106. At least not Heppy.

R14 is dangerously delusional!