Employed, but Living in a Shelter

This sounds very simplistic and I might get a nipple torn off, but if you can’t afford to live somewhere why would you?

People are crazy to have to put up with that. Re-locate. It might be hard, but, this is not worth it.

NYC ain't all it's cracked up to be.

[quote]if you can’t afford to live somewhere why would you?

Because that's where the work is.

But if you can't afford to live there on the wages they pay you, that kinda defeats the purpose, right?

Even Queens is expensive now.

The answer used to be “well then move out to Jersey and commute in on NJ Transit or PATH.” But that is expensive… and NJ rents have shot up a lot in the past decade as well. And Brooklyn is even more insanely expensive compared to itself 10 years ago.

There are no easy answers for people working in Manhattan and making less than $75K and having no $$ support from family.

why should they move. If there family and history is in NYC. its appalling housing is not being built. Scott Galloway is on a jag about this lately. Says it really must be a major democratic platform - AFFORDABLE HOUSING on a massive scale.

True r7. Even Jersey City and Hoboken would be rough on less than six figures these days, it's that insane.

I get the allure of NYC but if your housing exceeds your pay it's impossible.

Sadly R8 it is not a winning issue among voters. It’s the ultimate drawbridge syndrome— most of those who have housing they can afford, DO NOT want to help others make it. Because it’s a case where a lack of affordable housing helps those in houses maintain their high property values.

Roommates

In the 1950s and 60s, major projects were built to be affordable housing. Crime became an issue but the city needs to revisit this. This should be a part of the Dem platform. I think it’s gotten so bad that even the NIMBY types see the need for more housing.

I know a few people who are in their 30s and still have roommates in Bushwick Brooklyn.

I guess they are saving money....they can't move when they save up enough

R9 it’s insane. Jersey City NJ…. average 2BR rental today is $3500! In Jersey City! If you want the lower-crime areas that’s more like $4K.

A friend of mine I've known since college is living with a roommate in Astoria, they're both in their forties. I would seriously be re-thinking my options if I were still living like that in my forties.

These homeless snobs can't live in a shithole tuna can in the Bronx?

maybe they should stop calling these "homeless" shelters and call them SROs and dorms and charge nominal fees and require the tenant to hold a job most of the year. And a grace period if he loses the job. And otherwise stay out their hair. It could be charity housing or socialised housing. Not "homeless housing". they aren't homeless- that is their home.

if the person can't hold a job and is destitute, they could go to a "homeless shelter". If they can hold a job, it's low income SRO. Give the people their own room. Give a small family 3 rooms. nominal rent.

in Switzerland rents are high but people who can't work for one reason or another end up on a kind of dole or welfare and get a liveable subsidised apartment. They can live there for decades. they aren't slums. It's cheaper for the cities to do this than to deal iwht homeless and OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive services to the homeless.

So what’s more unaffordable- NYC or LA?

At least LA has sunshine and nice weather year round, too.

I agree that is insane. Also 50,000 is the most I ever made in one year.

If they could work it out, 3-4 of them could live together in an apartment.

That said, a homeless shelter doesn’t cost anything so they save that money.

$50k doesn’t go very far in NYC

Moving to any place that’s cheaper would also lower their income. They would likely have to buy a car and start paying rent a utilities.

It’s ultimately not cheaper to move elsewhere

Some have been doing this since the 80s.

Poughkeepsie

R22, you need a car in LA, that’s why it loses.

R25 That's not true. They could easily afford an apartment in say, Chicago, on $50,000 a year. And their income would absolutely not be lower for the same job, nor would they need a car.

I don't feel bad for any idiot that chooses to live in a homeless shelter just so they can stay in NYC unless their career absolutely requires it. You can get a $50,000 job anywhere in the country.

[quote]Because that's where the work is

I'm sure there are some (museum work immediately comes to mind), but what jobs at that NYC specific but pay that low?

I once overheard a man on the phone saying he knew of a person who lived in san fran and he was renting a room in an apt where everyone was a uber driver

I assure you this is false. NO ONE earning 50K a year is living in a fucking homeless shelter unless they lack all imagination. I've made less than that most of my adult life living mostly in Manhattan.

If only there were a way to free up some buildings for affordable housing.

so, R32, the Times is lying?

This is what kills communities. People who have roots in a places can’t afford to live there so they leave or end up on the margins. So many large cities are just full of greedy people. This is why so many places have lost all vibrancy and warmth.

When r32?

And if it was recently did you ever struggle? Please tell us how you managed. It could be helpful.

R36 Perhaps if a person lives in a rent-stabilized or rent-controlled apartment and/or has roommates and is careful with their other expenses, it might be possible.

I'm certain there are apartments cheaper in some parts of the Bronx (and not just the South Bronx). Also, there are parts of Brooklyn far out that used to be inexpensive - such as Canarsie - and looking online just now, I see apartments available there for 1500/month, or out in Marine Park. . I think that most of the people we are reading about living in shelters cannot imagine living far out in the boroughs and commuting by subway for an hour or 1 1/2 hours each way every day. Just for fun, I brought up zillow apartments for rent NYC. It seems that 3-4 thousand a month is pretty standard. But there still quite a few apartments listed at under $2000/month, in many different parts of the city, which surprised me. In theory, someone earning $50,000/year ought to be paying $1600/month rent - but the 1/3rd of income devoted to housing has always been hard to obtain in NYC.

You have to prove 40 X earnings.

Also, if you put in an application, does the landlord call your employer ever to verify your job, earnings etc?

^^^Don't you mean 4X?

No, 40.

Article to explain

You also have to come up with deposit, first and last month rent.

Heck, even people with high paying jobs may have a tough time coming up with all that.

Sorry, EL @ R41. I was confusing that with the adage that you're only supposed to spend a quarter to a third of your monthly income on rent. I didn't even think of yearly income.

Thanks for the article!

If you are paying more than 50% of your income on rent, then it's hard to make ends meet. Let's say you are making $50,000, and your take home pay after taxes, SS, etc is $30,000, and you pay $2K a mount on rent, that $24K a year just for rent. How do you live on only $6k a year, or just $500 month for food, clothing, commute, etc?

You get out and move somewhere that's sane.

That is why so man y have roommates. Preferably 3 people in one apartment.

I just had a thought -- maybe all these (I assume) guys think they're going to famous actors someday. I guess that's one explanation for why someone would do something this ridiculous.

r48, your assumption that someone earning $50,000/year is only going to take home $30,000 is a bit off the mark. It would be closer to $38,000, possibly even $40,000. A person would still be hard put to do anything but survive on a fairly simple level on the remaining $14,000-16,000/year, but it could be done. However, I was thinking of $1500/month apartments for those $50,000 earners. That would be $18000/year leaving quite a bit more for living expenses other than housing. ($20,000 or so). But people have to hustle for cheaper apartments in NYC. Of course, everyone is looking for a deal.

Thanks for explaining the 40X rule above. It's a little confusing on the face of it, because it sounds as though you need to earn 40 times the rent of the apartment PER MONTH. That would be insane. However, to prevent heart attacks and sticker shock, apartment costs are always expressed in rent/month, whereas salaries are almost always expressed as dollars/year, so there is something of a disconnect.

Ive lived in NYC for twenty-three years, but would never stay here if I made less than mid six figures. It doesn’t make me happy to say that. I romanticize a cheaper version of this city where artists and creatives could easily live and do their work, but sadly that version of the city is long gone. It’s way too hard to exist here unless you have a really strong income.

You single gays need to find those with rent controlled apts and try to get adopted by them so you can inherit their apts!

There is no doubt that NYC , particularly Manhattan, is a city where a comfortable life is only possible for the rich. I was glad to have lived there in my early-mid-20s, when walking up 4 flights of stairs with arms full of grocery bags or dragging down a heavy bag of laundry to a laundromat didn't seem so onerous. I could handle it now for a week, but any longer and I'd be a pretty sad camper. Wealthier people have much more spacious apartments, in-house appliances, elevators, air-conditioning, and lots of amenities taken for granted among the middle class in other parts of the country. They're not constantly battling with the city and have the money and energy to take advantage of the multitudes of cultural offerings - theater, dance, opera, museums, etc. Those who are not wealthy live challenging lives in the city. But there are some for whom only the constant energy of life in NYC will do. Any other spot would seem horribly dull and unlivable.