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Mame, The worst musical film . Ever.

It's on TCM now. Not even Robert Preston could save this from that frog-voiced, mugging, miscast Lucille Ball. It's terrible. As Little Glory would say, "It's ghastly! Simply ghastly!"

by Anonymousreply 330May 3, 2025 4:52 PM

Really, OP? I think you'll find your opinion is a distinct minority around here... At least among those here who've even heard of this film.

by Anonymousreply 1April 27, 2025 8:00 PM

The material was creaky by 1974 and that was emphasized by the casting of a creaky leading lady.

by Anonymousreply 2April 27, 2025 8:02 PM

Jane Connell was robbed of an Oscar!

by Anonymousreply 3April 27, 2025 8:04 PM

OP, I know you feel alone in this moment, but many of us have lived through what you're experiencing now.

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by Anonymousreply 4April 27, 2025 8:06 PM

At the start of filming, Lucille invited Jane over for dinner. Gary was sitting there eating lobster and Lucille told her that the two of them would just be having leftovers.

by Anonymousreply 5April 27, 2025 8:07 PM

R5 Because Gary talked her out of serving the lobster.

by Anonymousreply 6April 27, 2025 8:08 PM

I like it. Bea and Jane are great and I don't think Lucy is the Trainwreck everyone says she is. It's not a great movie musical but it's not the worst.

by Anonymousreply 7April 27, 2025 8:11 PM

Now just wait a goddamn minute! This Lucy dame and I are going to have it out!

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by Anonymousreply 8April 27, 2025 8:12 PM

star

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by Anonymousreply 9April 27, 2025 8:14 PM

Thank you, r8.

by Anonymousreply 10April 27, 2025 8:14 PM

[quote] I like it. Bea and Jane are great and I don't think Lucy is the Trainwreck everyone says she is. It's not a great movie musical but it's not the worst.

R7 Exactly how i feel. I adore it. A ridiculous, campy romp.

by Anonymousreply 11April 27, 2025 8:17 PM

Did she sing it as written? I hope so.

by Anonymousreply 12April 27, 2025 8:18 PM

Oh god. I just saw an episode of “Good Times” last night on TVOne that featured Jane Connell. It was the episode when Thelma writes a play that’s going to be produced (despite that talent never being mentioned before or after) and Connell spends the whole episode saying, “Mr. Nicholson suggests this change” and “Mr. Nicholson wants you to change this” and she must say it 50 times. Terribly written role and this was AFTER “Mame”.

And of course she is playing Sybil Gooley in the “All in the Family” episode when Edith is nearly raped.

by Anonymousreply 13April 27, 2025 8:19 PM

I wonder how Madeline Kahn would have fared as Gooch in this disaster. I guess she would have stolen scenes from Lucy which is why she was fired.

by Anonymousreply 14April 27, 2025 8:22 PM

it would have been better with Barbara Cason as the rich bitch

by Anonymousreply 15April 27, 2025 8:26 PM

I don't think Lucy's voice suits the score.

by Anonymousreply 16April 27, 2025 8:30 PM

Barbara Cason

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by Anonymousreply 17April 27, 2025 8:31 PM

There's only two reasons to watch this abomination, Bea Arthur, who steals every scene she's in, & to watch Lucille Ball make a complete fool of herself.

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by Anonymousreply 18April 27, 2025 8:33 PM

I was NEVER in the chorus!

by Anonymousreply 19April 27, 2025 8:35 PM

MY song!

by Anonymousreply 20April 27, 2025 8:36 PM

Thanks r17!

by Anonymousreply 21April 27, 2025 8:43 PM

godDAMN but I want those pink lounging pajamas she’s frolicking in at r4!

i want to be BURIED in them! OPEN CASKET!

by Anonymousreply 22April 27, 2025 8:47 PM

I didnt realize that Andy Garvey was Mame's nephew.

by Anonymousreply 23April 27, 2025 8:49 PM

It would've been better with Helen Lawson.

by Anonymousreply 24April 27, 2025 8:50 PM

This topic is pretty well exhausted.

by Anonymousreply 25April 27, 2025 8:52 PM

It was huge. HUGE, I tell ya!

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by Anonymousreply 26April 27, 2025 8:52 PM

"This topic is pretty well exhausted."

So was Lucy. That was the problem.

by Anonymousreply 27April 27, 2025 8:55 PM

Dreadful.

by Anonymousreply 28April 27, 2025 9:12 PM

R25. As is your attitude.

by Anonymousreply 29April 27, 2025 9:23 PM

“Cut!”

“Get me a cigarette. Get me two!”

by Anonymousreply 30April 27, 2025 9:27 PM

I was molested by a cool rider.

by Anonymousreply 31April 27, 2025 9:33 PM

The ONLY movie version of Mame to watch, is the version with Rosalind Russel. Superior in every way.

by Anonymousreply 32April 27, 2025 10:01 PM

R32. Except that wasn't a movie version of "Mame." That was "Auntie Mame"; two separate things.

by Anonymousreply 33April 27, 2025 10:05 PM

The old, tired Lucy.

by Anonymousreply 34April 27, 2025 10:22 PM

I rather liked the picture, actually.

by Anonymousreply 35April 27, 2025 10:50 PM

It needed someone younger and more glamorous...like little Suzanne Cupito.

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by Anonymousreply 36April 27, 2025 10:58 PM

Lucy was the worst part of the film, but she wasn't the only bad thing. Neither Patrick was well-cast. The sets were lousy. The new orchestrations and musical direction were lacking (could "It's Today" be taken any slower???). And ultimately the direct is at fault for the total lack of energy throughout the film. It's hard to be screaming, "Live! Live! Live!" when you're in a wheelchair, attached to an IV line.

by Anonymousreply 37April 27, 2025 11:04 PM

YOU BLOW THE SHIT RIGHT OUTTA MY ASS... MAME

by Anonymousreply 38April 27, 2025 11:05 PM

A few challengers for worst movie musical of the Mame era:

the aforementioned Lost Horizon

Doctor Doolittle

A Little Night Music

Goodbye Mr. Chips

Star!

by Anonymousreply 39April 27, 2025 11:07 PM

Also John Huston's Annie and Sydney Lumet's Wiz

by Anonymousreply 40April 27, 2025 11:10 PM

The editing is a big part of the problem. Gene Saks was thinking too much like a stage director, leaving huge gaps for laughter and applause. It slows the pacing down.

by Anonymousreply 41April 27, 2025 11:13 PM

[quote]Doctor Doolittle

DOLITTLE, as in "do little" -- get it?

by Anonymousreply 42April 27, 2025 11:36 PM

R39 you forgot At Long Last Love

by Anonymousreply 43April 27, 2025 11:38 PM

I was a boy when a lot of those musicals came out. I love musicals and I thought they were God awful even as a child. Though I would like to give Goodbye Mr Chips another look simply because I remember Peter O'Toole being very wonderful. Star didn't even make it to the suburbs where I lived that's how bad it was. I love the lp I thought it was pretty terrific. Then I got to see the movie much later and I couldn't believe it was as bad as everyone said it was. Anyway it produced a great soundtrack album and souvenir book.

I saw Mame at Radio City and it's as though it was so horrible that they did it on purpose. You can't try to make a good movie and come up with that. The same with Lost Horizon. It's as if literally everybody in pre-production meetings was saying let's make a truly horrible movie musical. I mean was anybody looking at the dailies? Of course there are the people who think both of them are good movies and they really enjoy them and God bless them.

by Anonymousreply 44April 27, 2025 11:55 PM

The movie version of Mame has permanent place in my heart and I can watch it on an endless loop. My mom took me to see it in 1974 in Brooklyn. I was just a little kid and still remember that day like it was yesterday. It also lead to my interest in musical movies and musical theater. No I'm not a crazy theater queen but I do work in the entertainment industry on the finance side of the business. I've had a great career and met many amazing and famous people yes even Angela Lansbury many times but I never mentioned this movie to her. So thank you Lucy, Bea and Robert. I'm surprised it hasn't been remade. It's a great vehicle for some female star.

by Anonymousreply 45April 28, 2025 12:15 AM

Did Lucy get all of Jerry Herman’s pauses in the right places?

by Anonymousreply 46April 28, 2025 12:32 AM

Goodbye, Mr. Chips doesn’t really deserve to be mentioned with the other disasters. O’Toole gave a touching performance (different from Donat’s equally fine non-musical) and, while the score never really lifts, the school anthem is sweet and genuine (though I doubt a boys school would have “fill the world with love” back then), and Petula Clark is charming and moving by turns, and making her a music hall performer who can appreciate Chips’ qualities and life works for me. Sian Phillips (Mrs. O’Toole at the time) was droll playing an invented figure out of Beardsley and Firbank. It is a fair criticism to suggest the film didn’t need the songs, though it seems like a natural property for such adaptation. Am I right that John Mills did a stage version of the musical in England?

by Anonymousreply 47April 28, 2025 12:45 AM

My guess is that Mr. Chips still has some charms, r44. I think its main problem was that it was such a small story to musicalize.

by Anonymousreply 48April 28, 2025 12:46 AM

In Goodbye Mr Chips I hated the way Petula Clark was killed .

by Anonymousreply 49April 28, 2025 12:49 AM

Man of La Mancha

And it was so compelling on stage.

by Anonymousreply 50April 28, 2025 12:49 AM

OP, you'll find that while your view on Mame was fairly common 50 years ago. In the years following its release, saner heads have prevailed! Mame has been reassessed by a new generations who have appreciate it for the flawed masterpiece that it is. The biggest problem with Mama was a public who refused to allow Lucille Ball to play a New York sophisticate. They didn't want her singing Bosom Buddies with Bea Arthur, they wanted her working on a chocolate assembly line with Viv Vance. But with time and distance, critics throughout the world have reclaimed Mame for the warm and wonderful piece of family entertainment that it is. This does not mean that I am looking at the film through rose-colored glasses, and they primarily begin and end with Kirby Furlong! Where was Robbie Rist or Johnny Whitaker or even Brandon Cruz! Any of them would have been eons better than Kirby. Also, Jane Connell was way too old to be playing Gooch! Though, I think Madeline Kahn wasn't right for the part, certainly a younger musical theater trained actress such as Michele Lee or Beth Howland would have been terrific.

Was Lucy a little long in the tooth for the lead role? Maybe, but you have to admit the makeup, camera and lighting people did their work and made her look decades younger than her age. In It's Today Lucy doesn't look a day over 27 at least! Also, Lucy's excellent physicality and countenance gave the feeling of a much younger woman.

by Anonymousreply 51April 28, 2025 1:13 AM

Michele Lee? God only one of them, Ball or Lee, would have made it out of production alive.

by Anonymousreply 52April 28, 2025 1:16 AM

R41, exactly. When Bea Arthur makes her first appearance and speaks her guest line, it’s just dead air onscreen for several moments after.

by Anonymousreply 53April 28, 2025 1:20 AM

R50, it sure doesn’t help that Sophia Loren was not a singer and talks her way through the songs.

by Anonymousreply 54April 28, 2025 1:21 AM

R51 no—it was shit then, and remains shit to this day. So shitty that no one has bothered with any reassessment you claim to write of. From shit to shinola.

by Anonymousreply 55April 28, 2025 1:23 AM

Lucy was a good ten years too late to do Mame. Angela never would have gotten the part either at that point. Streisand would have gotten first dibs, then it would have been passed on to Shirley Maclaine, Liza, maybe even Liz Taylor.

Bea only did it because her husband was involved as director and guilted her into doing it as payback because they moved out West so she could do Maude. He was pissed because he was a HUGE deal in the NYC theater scene and didn't want to leave.

The movie musical Bea should have done was reprise her role in Fiddler on the Roof.

by Anonymousreply 56April 28, 2025 1:27 AM

R49. SPOILER ALERT!

by Anonymousreply 57April 28, 2025 1:27 AM

Petula Clark received good reviews for both Mr. Chips and Finian's Rainbow.

She probably would have been better than Julie Andrews or Audrey Hepburn in My Fair Lady.

by Anonymousreply 58April 28, 2025 1:37 AM

I am old and I will always love Lucy.....so I can take it.

Her scenes with the Upsons are fun.....and her scenes with the older Patrick when she lets him know how she really feels about what he has become have some bit and truth.....

And except for a few of the costumes - Lucy looks great.

Tell that broad to get her ass on that moon!!!

by Anonymousreply 59April 28, 2025 1:43 AM

bitE and truth......

by Anonymousreply 60April 28, 2025 1:44 AM

Mame is pretty bad but hardly the worst. CATS, MAN OF LA MANCHA, SONG OF NORWAY and many others are far worse.

by Anonymousreply 61April 28, 2025 2:59 AM

R58. Pet Clark was a serious contender to play Neely O'Hara. No. Really. She was.

by Anonymousreply 62April 28, 2025 3:15 AM

Song of Norway

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by Anonymousreply 63April 28, 2025 3:27 AM

R63. Mrs. Brady was a shit singer. I'm glad I put Drano in her coffee before her big Christmas Morning solo...

by Anonymousreply 64April 28, 2025 4:29 AM

Mame was a shitty musical to begin with, but it did give us one of the all-time great torch songs.

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by Anonymousreply 65April 28, 2025 4:41 AM

Pia Zadora would've made a better Mame!

by Anonymousreply 66April 28, 2025 7:15 AM

[quote]R56 Lucy was a good ten years too late to do Mame.

Far worse is the fact that she can’t sing, and croaks her way through the songs (?)

by Anonymousreply 67April 28, 2025 7:34 AM

In his scathing review of the movie, Rex Reed wrote of Lucille Ball, "Cut her in half and count the rings!"

by Anonymousreply 68April 28, 2025 8:20 AM

R44 here.

I've written here before that when I saw Mame at Radio City it was a Sunday afternoon. We waited on line for hours and got in and the place was packed. Imagine watching this thing with almost 6,000 people. Like being at an eagerly awaited public execution. I might as well have been a victim at the Spanish Inquisition. But and this is a very big but the audience enjoyed it immensely. They were singing and clapping along with the title number laughing throughout and even giving individual numbers applause. Then the movie went into general release and took a header off a cliff. Lucy never recovered.

You want an open casket wake? Watch Lucy singing It's Today on youtube.

by Anonymousreply 69April 28, 2025 8:54 AM

The film version of A Chorus Line is pretty dreadful. The only saving grace is Vicki Frederick and her amazing head of hair.

by Anonymousreply 70April 28, 2025 12:37 PM

R51 is either being ironic or delusional. This was an absolute turkey and I didn't first see it until a decade or so after it was released.

I'm guessing that during its Radio City run, it got the old Lucy fans who would watch her trying to deliver Chekov or Becket and therefore cheered on her attempt at singing---basically the old queens here who behave as though she was a great actress rather than a coarse B-movie filler.

by Anonymousreply 71April 28, 2025 12:44 PM

R41 And there was so much of it!

by Anonymousreply 72April 28, 2025 1:34 PM

[quote] Her scenes with the Upsons are fun....

In what way?

by Anonymousreply 73April 28, 2025 1:38 PM

I saw it the summer of the year it came out, at a big, old movie theater at the beach in Maine. There was a fairly decnt crowd there (it was the only movie in town and people went to whatever was playing), but I don't remember their reaction to the movie. It ws pretty strange for 15 year old me to see an approximately 50 year old pregnant woman singing "What do I Do Now?"

by Anonymousreply 74April 28, 2025 1:54 PM

[quote]Petula Clark received good reviews for both Mr. Chips and Finian's Rainbow.

"Finian's Rainbow" (directed by Francis Ford Coppola) is an underrated musical, and one of my favorites. Incredible score, and I loved three of the four main performances. The weak link is Tommy Steele, who hams it up as (and is MUCH too tall for ) Ogg.

by Anonymousreply 75April 28, 2025 1:56 PM

Unlike a lot of people I don't think the movie would have been improved a lot with Angela Lansbury. I didn't see her in the stage version but I did her on stage. Only one time, in Gypsy. She was great in it. But the movie of Mame was not well made, anyway. They got all kinds of things messed up. Angela would have been a much better Mame, of course, even if she was ten years older by that time--she was still young. But I don't know if they could have gotten people to go to it. She wasn't a box office draw, in movies. Anyway, I don't actually think even she could have saved this turkey. Not even Rosalind Russell could have. Angela always regretted publicly that she wasn't cast but she didn't realize how lucky she was.

by Anonymousreply 76April 28, 2025 2:05 PM

R75 The score and cast are good (and you're right about Tommy Steele) but they should have found a director who understood how to film a musical. From what I remember it wasn't a big budget, but I still think it could have been a lot better.

One thing I didn't get (but I saw this years ago, so I might be forgetting something). In the opening credits, why did Fred and Petula come from Ireland by way of the west coast, and travel across the US to get to a state in the south?

by Anonymousreply 77April 28, 2025 2:12 PM

[quote] I didn't see her in the stage version but I did her on stage.

Oops. Haha.

by Anonymousreply 78April 28, 2025 2:14 PM

[quote]why did Fred and Petula come from Ireland by way of the west coast, and travel across the US to get to a state in the south?

They got directions from the Von Trapps.

by Anonymousreply 79April 28, 2025 3:02 PM

Yeah, it sucks, but John Huston's Annie and Sidney Lumet's The Wiz are incredibly bad.

I don't mean just misguided, they are inept and poorly done.

by Anonymousreply 80April 28, 2025 4:07 PM

I blame Bernadette! She didn’t play the part, or sing, as written.

by Anonymousreply 81April 28, 2025 4:13 PM

Oh Jesus, I forgot about Man of La Mancha.

I will say that one of the reasons we Generation Joneses went nuts over Rocky Horror in the late 70s was that for many of ud it was the first GOOD new(ish) movie musical we'd seen, and we could see it in the theater instead of on TV chopped up with commercials.

by Anonymousreply 82April 28, 2025 4:36 PM

Xanadu wasn't too good, either, except about 5 or 10 minutes with Gene Kelly dancing with ONJ. And then there's Grease 2.

Grease (#1) was really horrible, too, in my opinion, though it seems to have become a "classic," now.

by Anonymousreply 83April 28, 2025 4:44 PM

And there's At Long Last Love, and one From the Heart.

by Anonymousreply 84April 28, 2025 4:46 PM

R82 Man of La Mancha is pretty much for James Coco’s Chubby Chaser Fan Club.

by Anonymousreply 85April 28, 2025 4:46 PM

The remake of State Fair (1962) directed by Jose Ferrer...it was not good, but it's like a masterpiece compared to Mame.

by Anonymousreply 86April 28, 2025 4:49 PM

Meh…

by Anonymousreply 87April 28, 2025 4:51 PM

Another bad musical is Paint Your Wagon.

A couple of people above mentioned At Long Last Love, but I'm in a tiny minority that likes that movie.

by Anonymousreply 88April 28, 2025 4:53 PM

Paint Your Wagon stunk. Clint made Lucy sound like Judy Garland

by Anonymousreply 89April 28, 2025 5:20 PM

[quote]and one From the Heart.

I like One From the Heart, r84.

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by Anonymousreply 90April 28, 2025 5:25 PM

Lucy would have been great in HELLO, DOLLY!

by Anonymousreply 91April 28, 2025 5:46 PM

r91 But Walter Matthau was fine in the role.

by Anonymousreply 92April 28, 2025 5:54 PM

Call me a Big Ol' Mary, but I really like Mame and especially the big number at the grand house with all the men in riding costumes. It still gives me a thrill.

by Anonymousreply 93April 28, 2025 6:15 PM

You’d fuck a horse in a barn, wouldn’t you?

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by Anonymousreply 94April 28, 2025 6:19 PM

Smarty r92! 😀

Dolly Levi would have been perfect for Lucy in 1968. The character is a schemer like Lucy Ricardo etc. and doesn't need to be a great singer.

Lucy was in fact included in Ernest Lehman's initial list of casting options. For Dolly, Lehman considered Lucy, Julie Andrews (probably trying to replicate his hit with her on Sound of Music ); Elizabeth Taylor, Maureen O'Hara and Carol Burnett. Crossed out on his list was Doris Day, who must have turned him down. Written in as an afterthought were Angela Lansbury and Deborah Kerr.

Lehman's list of Vandergelders is just as interesting: Jimmy Stewart, Rex Harrison, Richard Burton, Jackie Gleason, and Alec Guinness.

For Irene Molloy, Lehman considered Yvette Mimieux, Liza Minnelli, Mary Tyler Moore, Maggie Smith, Sally Ann Howes, Lee Remick, and Jane Fonda (!).

by Anonymousreply 95April 28, 2025 6:34 PM

It would have been better with Shelley Hack R66!

by Anonymousreply 96April 28, 2025 6:41 PM

[quote]Lucy would have been great in HELLO, DOLLY!

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by Anonymousreply 97April 28, 2025 6:41 PM

Lucy as Dolly and Gale Gordon as Vandergelder. Just imagine!

by Anonymousreply 98April 28, 2025 6:43 PM

Talking about movie musicals, are Footloose and Flashdance considered to be musicals? They have singing and dancing, but none of the leads sing any songs.

by Anonymousreply 99April 28, 2025 6:46 PM

They're movies featuring people on screen dancing not singing, r99. Musicals have people on screen singing.

by Anonymousreply 100April 28, 2025 6:55 PM

R99 really?!

by Anonymousreply 101April 28, 2025 6:56 PM

I liked Goodbye, Mr Chips......especially Petula Clark and Sian Phillips [then Mrs. Peter O'Toole]: "Oh, darling, I adore early English perpendicular."

The scenes when O'Toole & Clark are falling in love in Greece are beautiful...as is the song.

And of course London IS London!

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by Anonymousreply 102April 28, 2025 7:18 PM

Lucy croaking out the songs in her elderly, cigarette-ravaged voice was painful to hear.

by Anonymousreply 103April 28, 2025 7:20 PM

[quote]“Cut!”

[quote]“Get me a cigarette. Get me two!”

Right away, Miss Ball.

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by Anonymousreply 104April 28, 2025 7:26 PM

Ann Margaret tested for Irene Molloy. Her screen test was up on YouTube for a bit.

by Anonymousreply 105April 28, 2025 7:35 PM

R83- Grease (1978) was a fun B movie 🎥 musical but Can’t Stop The Music (1979) and St Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band ( 1978) really were HORRIBLE.

by Anonymousreply 106April 28, 2025 7:35 PM

Tommy

by Anonymousreply 107April 28, 2025 7:39 PM

[quote] I've had a great career and met many amazing and famous people yes even Angela Lansbury many times

MARY!-est sentence of the month!

by Anonymousreply 108April 28, 2025 7:41 PM

One of the weirdest things about the movie for me is the actual house they used for the Beekman Place apartment set. It was designed to look like a fucking mausoleum, so the scenes of people wildly having fun there look like they're in a horror movie.

by Anonymousreply 109April 28, 2025 7:43 PM

Song of Norway

by Anonymousreply 110April 28, 2025 7:44 PM

[quote]R95 For Irene Molloy, Lehman considered Yvette Mimieux, Liza Minnelli, Mary Tyler Moore, Maggie Smith, Sally Ann Howes, Lee Remick, and Jane Fonda (!).

I read that Ann-Margret really wanted that part. I don’t know why Gene Kelly went for an unknown instead. I’m not an AM fanatic, but she can sing and dance.

by Anonymousreply 111April 28, 2025 7:46 PM

[quote] Paint Your Wagon stunk. Clint made Lucy sound like Judy Garland.

And Lee Marvin made Clint sound like Risë Stevens.

by Anonymousreply 112April 28, 2025 7:47 PM

[quote]r107 - Tommy

Tommy was nominated for best picture. You may not like it, but it's not a bad movie.

by Anonymousreply 113April 28, 2025 7:50 PM

She would have been perfect with an age-appropriate Dolly, r111.

by Anonymousreply 114April 28, 2025 7:53 PM

R108 I was the asst. to the second barista who made cappuccino on the MSW.

Be careful!

by Anonymousreply 115April 28, 2025 7:55 PM

I liked it r113. I threw it out there to see what others thought

by Anonymousreply 116April 28, 2025 7:59 PM

[quote]Ann Margaret

Oh, dear.

by Anonymousreply 117April 28, 2025 8:00 PM

No you didn’t R116

by Anonymousreply 118April 28, 2025 8:01 PM

It's such a shame that Judy Garland wasn't in good enough shape to do the original Auntie Mame on Broadway and then the film. She would've been absolutely perfect if she'd been able to stay off the pills and keep her shit together.

by Anonymousreply 119April 28, 2025 8:09 PM

Don’t you think the concentration of people who know Ann-Margret auditioned for a supporting role in HELLO, DOLLY! is probably higher here than anywhere else in the universe?

by Anonymousreply 120April 28, 2025 8:16 PM

If the moon shit electricity, civilization would survive another 20,000 years. But it doesn’t, so we won’t.

by Anonymousreply 121April 28, 2025 8:16 PM

Far be it from me to hold up Clint Eastwood as a singer, but pitted against Lucille Ball he wins hands-down. His voice is untrained, but musical.

by Anonymousreply 122April 28, 2025 8:17 PM

He's no Lee Marvin, r122.

by Anonymousreply 123April 28, 2025 8:19 PM

He's not even a Pierce Brosnan!

by Anonymousreply 124April 28, 2025 8:21 PM

[quote]R119 It's such a shame that Judy Garland wasn't in good enough shape to do the original Auntie Mame on Broadway and then the film. She would've been absolutely perfect if she'd been able to stay off the pills and keep her shit together.

Conversely, she should have leaned into her addiction and done Mary Tyrone, Blanche Dubois, Martha in VIRGINIA WOOLF, etc. Why not? At least it would have been truthful.

Perhaps she could even stretch herself to sing alcoholic Birdie in Blitzstein’s opera REGINA.

by Anonymousreply 125April 28, 2025 8:31 PM

Don't forget "At Long Last Love," another now lamented misunderstood "masterpiece." Another badly sung, acted, directed, and costumed cinematic turd.

by Anonymousreply 126April 28, 2025 8:47 PM

Judy Garland as Martha in Who's Afraid Of Virginia Woolf. Can you even imagine how insane that would've been?

by Anonymousreply 127April 28, 2025 9:01 PM

I read that Judy was approached with a major revival of THE SHANGHAI GESTURE, with Liza to play heroin addict daughter Poppy.

The new songs wouldn’t come together, though.

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by Anonymousreply 128April 28, 2025 9:03 PM

The Little Prince (1974)

by Anonymousreply 129April 28, 2025 9:10 PM

MARTHA …….. Judy Garland

GEORGE …….. Henry Fonda

NICK …….. Clint Eastwood and/or Burt Reynolds

HONEY …….. Connie Stevens*

——————————-

* Please Note: Miss Stevens must wrap production by May 15, as she is to go into “My Fair Lady” immediately after.

by Anonymousreply 130April 28, 2025 9:17 PM

Connie got the part, but for Eliza, George Cukor also considered newcomer Donna Douglas.

by Anonymousreply 131April 28, 2025 9:36 PM

Typical Cukor and his blonde casting couch...

by Anonymousreply 132April 28, 2025 9:42 PM

I saw “Mame” at the historic Ohio Theatuh as a 9-year old in 1974. The mood was joyless and funereal as we exited, but I recall, and gave credit to our packed house that stuck it out. I never realized that Patrick Labyorteaux was the swearing grand nephew in the closing scene prior to watching on TCM. Why did they cast that blank slate tubby boy as young Patrick?!

by Anonymousreply 133April 28, 2025 9:58 PM

Frankly, other than Robert Preston the entire movie was miscast!

by Anonymousreply 134April 28, 2025 10:36 PM

Do you like gin, Mamie?

Love I it!

Great - after dinner we'll get out the cards and have a game!

Some of the best lines from the play were left out!

by Anonymousreply 135April 29, 2025 1:29 AM

Barbra probably didn't want that cheap whore Annie Margaret to steal her thunder.

by Anonymousreply 136April 29, 2025 1:40 AM

OP, the movie and Lucy's performance have many tremendous flaws, but it's simply not true that Lucy "mugs" through it. If anything, one of the big problems is the opposite: She plays much of the role with a somewhat tired "grande dame" affect, not enough life and youth and personality.

by Anonymousreply 137April 29, 2025 1:42 AM

R8 I never miss a Liv Ullmann musical!

by Anonymousreply 138April 29, 2025 1:43 AM

R126 It's been mentioned a couple of times.

by Anonymousreply 139April 29, 2025 2:16 AM

R130 Henry Fonda was first choice and was offered the part of George in the original Broadway show but his agent turned it down. When he heard about it, he fired his agent.

I can't see Juidy Garland in the role of Martha at all. Maybe that's supposed to be a joke.

by Anonymousreply 140April 29, 2025 2:20 AM

Edward Albee wanted Bette Davis as Martha. That would've been perfect since Bette pretty much WAS Martha IRL.

by Anonymousreply 141April 29, 2025 2:28 AM

I tried to watch it. But I couldn’t take her hoarse voice and had to stop watching. She just sounded so bad.

by Anonymousreply 142April 29, 2025 2:35 AM

OP Actually Scorsese's New York NY is worse. I couldn't make it to the end. In the first 5 minutes you want Minnelli to run away from De Niro. He's not the least bit charming or sexy. And over the next 90 minutes they're yelling, screaming and whacking away at one another. It's exhausting and not the least bit entertaining.

Also, unwatchable and therefore worse than Mame is Peter Bogdanovich's At Long Last Love; it's embarrassingly bad and for the most part the acting is like something out of a mediocre high school production.

Ditto Xanadu which is headache inducing.

In comparison to all of the above, Mame seems professionally made

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by Anonymousreply 143April 29, 2025 2:45 AM

[quote]R140 I can't see Judy Garland in the role of Martha at all. Maybe that's supposed to be a joke.

It’s easier to picture after you’ve heard her drunken memoir recordings.

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by Anonymousreply 144April 29, 2025 3:02 AM

r143 I saw New York New York in its original release version. Supposedly it was 2 hours and 35 minutes, but I swear whatever I saw was much longer.

by Anonymousreply 145April 29, 2025 3:02 AM

R144 there's a recording of Ura Hagen doing Martha and her drunk scenes sound very much like those Judy recordings

by Anonymousreply 146April 29, 2025 3:34 AM

I think the problem with Xanadu is that it's so damn dull.

by Anonymousreply 147April 29, 2025 3:37 AM

It’s dull and ONJ couldn’t act worth a damn.

by Anonymousreply 148April 29, 2025 3:50 AM

[quote]Mame has been reassessed by a new generations who have appreciate it for the flawed masterpiece that it is

Only in your I Love Lucy fever dream. No one has reassessed except for those who say it's possibly worse than when it came out.

I like Goodbye, Mr. Chips. I didn't see a reason to update the timeline to the Second World War. But I love late Victorian, Edwardian, and WWI stuff.

I don't like Man Of La Mancha, but I didn't like the show either. But Peter O'Toole elevated every movie he was in.

[quote]Angela would have been a much better Mame, of course, even if she was ten years older by that time--she was still young.

Angela Lansbury looked old from the time she hit 25. And it showed up on screen. Rosalind Russell was too old. Mame was 35, tops. As with Rose in Gypsy, they keep casting women too old for the movie versions. What works on stage from a distance, never works in movies. Maggie Smith would have made an outstanding Mame. The movie still would have sucked because the musical mostly sucks, but she would have been great.

As for Judy Garland as Martha, it may have been thrown out there as a joke, but there's a real good chance she would have killed the part. You don't have to consider her problems with addiction to see her in the role. I never heard any of those tapes, but she proved her acting chops many times. If you can't see her as a love-starved, raging harridan with a very fragile core, you have a serious lack of imagination. Don't get me wrong, WAOVW is a phenomenal movie, and the cast is outstanding. But if were entertaining some alternative casting, Garland would have been a interesting choice.

As for Dolly? How old is she supposed to be. Streisand doing a Mae West imitation was cringeworthy. Shirley MacLaine and Debbie Reynolds were probably also too young. If you don't have a be a great singer, did anyone consider Ava Gardner?

by Anonymousreply 149April 29, 2025 3:55 AM

Angela Lansbury looked old from the time she hit 18.

FIFY

by Anonymousreply 150April 29, 2025 4:04 AM

R145 - NY, NY was later extended yet another 10 minutes a few years after its release.

There was an elaborate "Happy Endings" number near the end that was reduced to about a minute or two during the original release, but years later Scorsese got the number restored to the intended length.

Now the movie runs (some would say limps along) 163 minutes.

by Anonymousreply 151April 29, 2025 4:18 AM

[quote]r149 As for Dolly? How old is she supposed to be. ... If you don't have a be a great singer, did anyone consider Ava Gardner?

I've always thought Dolly was living by her wits because she didn't have the luxury of relying on her looks. I think the role was originated by Ruth Gordon, who's no knock out.

I'd think Ava Gardner at any age is probably too beautiful for the role.

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by Anonymousreply 152April 29, 2025 4:18 AM

You're correct, r152. She opened on Broadway. Shirley Booth did the role on film.

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by Anonymousreply 153April 29, 2025 7:29 PM

[quote]As for Judy Garland as Martha, it may have been thrown out there as a joke, but there's a real good chance she would have killed the part.

If she had held on a little longer, how about Marylin Monroe as Martha? And it would have great if she could have teamed up with Jack Lemmon again, in "Days of Wine and Roses".

by Anonymousreply 154April 29, 2025 7:30 PM

^ Marilyn

by Anonymousreply 155April 29, 2025 7:31 PM

R154, I hope you're joking, because the idea of Marilyn Monroe (of all people!) as Martha in Virginia Woolf is beyond ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 156April 29, 2025 8:35 PM

R149 Judy Garland didn't have the right toughness for either Martha or Helen Lawson she was too tremulous and vulnerable.

by Anonymousreply 157April 29, 2025 8:59 PM

Marilyn Monroe was too attractive for Martha, who was a slovenly frump.

by Anonymousreply 158April 29, 2025 9:02 PM

R158 In 1966 Liz Taylor was too attractive for Martha. It was a shock when she was cast.

Albee wanted Bette Davis. And Uta Hagan played the role on B'Way and she was no beauty either.

But Taylor gained 30 pounds for the role and wore makeup designed to age her and gave a performance that was unlike anything she had done before.

by Anonymousreply 159April 29, 2025 9:47 PM

The salt'n'pepper hair helped.

by Anonymousreply 160April 29, 2025 9:50 PM

Yeah, Ava Gardner probably isn't a good choice. I was thinking of her in Night Of The Iguana. She was a "broad" in that movie, but yeah, still too pretty.

No one jumped on Maggie Smith for Mame? I still think that would have been a great choice.

by Anonymousreply 161April 29, 2025 10:30 PM

She'd recently done Travels With My Aunt, r161.

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by Anonymousreply 162April 29, 2025 10:32 PM

Which was just on TCM, R162. She was great in that movie.

by Anonymousreply 163April 29, 2025 10:35 PM

I read a press release in 1985, r163. They were going to renovate the Wiltern Theatre in LA and turn it back into a theatrical venue. The plan was to open with Maggie in Auntie Mame. They renovated the theatre but it's not used for theatrical productions. It's too bad that fell through.

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by Anonymousreply 164April 29, 2025 10:44 PM

[quote]In 1966 Liz Taylor was too attractive for Martha. It was a shock when she was cast.

Liz Taylor could do slovenly and unattractive, Marilyn couldn't.

by Anonymousreply 165April 29, 2025 10:46 PM

I never like anything LB did except for ILL. She's not a good actress, and that movie especially was not a good fit. She was simply too old, and they did the whole thing in soft focus which was horrible. Ironically the Auntie Mame version with Roslin Russell is one of my all time favorite movies, and I thought she was amazing in it. She's one of those tired old popular actors that was given roles well beyond her range - like the number of songs Frank Sinatra sang that he completely ruined. Stay in your lane and thank the Universe you were given the chance.

by Anonymousreply 166April 29, 2025 10:54 PM

I think Monroe was very shrewd about her image. When she finally produced her own movies, she chose to play gentle, winsome characters.

I don’t see her wanting to play a bloodthirsty barracuda like Martha.

Was NIAGARA the only time she played a villain?

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by Anonymousreply 167April 29, 2025 10:57 PM

R167, she also played the bad gal in Don't Bother to Knock

by Anonymousreply 168April 29, 2025 11:08 PM

She wasn't bad, r168, she was disturbed.

by Anonymousreply 169April 29, 2025 11:20 PM

"I'm sorry I was ever part of this movie."

"IT WAS A TOTAL HORROR!!!!"

-Bea being interviewed about Mame

by Anonymousreply 170April 29, 2025 11:20 PM

R164 made that up.

by Anonymousreply 171April 29, 2025 11:27 PM

R164. Nice to see Randy Rainbow sold out...

by Anonymousreply 172April 30, 2025 12:16 AM

R169 ...she was just drawn that way.

by Anonymousreply 173April 30, 2025 12:31 AM

[quote]Liz Taylor could do slovenly and unattractive,

Preaching to the choir.

by Anonymousreply 174April 30, 2025 12:35 AM

[quote]Liz Taylor could do slovenly and unattractive, Marilyn couldn't.

Before Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?, when did Liz Taylor ever play slovenly and unattractive in a film?

by Anonymousreply 175April 30, 2025 12:45 AM

“Mame” cries for a more creditable remake, even if it’s with stunt casting and presented on Thanksgiving.

by Anonymousreply 176April 30, 2025 12:51 AM

It would be good with age apropos casting with Beyoncé or Adele. Maybe even the “Wicked” girls.

by Anonymousreply 177April 30, 2025 12:59 AM

1985, r171... it was in Drama-Logue.

by Anonymousreply 178April 30, 2025 1:03 AM

Lucille Ball definitely could act when she was younger. She just didn’t seem to think she had to act in Mame. She basically just played Lucy with a brown wig.

Only a gravel voiced Lucy in that wig with her facial skin clipped back and seen thru a greasy lens was just pathetic. I actually feel kind of sorry for her because of the humiliation she went through… but she brought it on herself.

by Anonymousreply 179April 30, 2025 1:41 AM

[quote] I can't see Juidy Garland in the role of Martha at all. Maybe that's supposed to be a joke.

Judy Garland could have been amazing in it. But you’re right, Judy’s distant cousin, Juidy, would have been lousy.

by Anonymousreply 180April 30, 2025 2:27 AM

r180, I saw Juidy in Antigone and she was marvelous.

by Anonymousreply 181April 30, 2025 2:30 AM

[quote] Before Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?, when did Liz Taylor ever play slovenly and unattractive in a film?

Yes. It came later with the likes of X, Y, and Z.

And even later John Belushi characterized what everyone was thinking.

by Anonymousreply 182April 30, 2025 4:32 AM

If there had been one titled-

Joanie Love Chaci- The Musical

That would be the worst musical film ever.

by Anonymousreply 183April 30, 2025 4:41 AM

I saw At Long Last Love twice at Radio City. Why? Because it had a gorgeous production design and beautiful photography which movies no longer had and it was wonderful looking at Radio City. Unlike Mame which looked like dog poop on a NY street. Lucy's Santa mask made her look like she was in a slasher film. The second time I saw ALLL there it had been cut. I have no idea why. Word was already out that it was a turkey and they cut a song I actually liked a duet for Cybil and Madeline "I Loved Him."

by Anonymousreply 184April 30, 2025 8:55 AM

Chachi!

by Anonymousreply 185April 30, 2025 11:24 AM

I don't know why Lucy never remade the movie 'Hello Dolly' in the early 80s after her success with 'Mame'.

by Anonymousreply 186April 30, 2025 12:09 PM

R152, R153 Tornton Wilder's original version was called The Merchant of Yonkers. It starred Jane Cowl as Dolly. That was in the 1930s. Tom Ewell played Cornelius. TW revised it as The Matchmaker in the 1950s. It played the Edinburgh Festival and in Europe for a while before coming to Broadway. (Sam Levene played Vandergelder in the European production). Arthur Hill played Cornelius. the screen version (since she wasn't a movie star, at the time).

Garson Kanin said Spencer Tracy and Katharine Hepburn offered to co-star with Gordon in a film, since they felt she was so good in the part (and she was not a film star at the time).

by Anonymousreply 187April 30, 2025 3:49 PM

[quote]Garson Kanin said Spencer Tracy and Katharine Hepburn offered to co-star with Gordon in a film, since they felt she was so good in the part (and she was not a film star at the time).

It worked for Judy Holliday.

by Anonymousreply 188April 30, 2025 3:58 PM

Yeah I mean they offered to play Vandergelder and Irene Malloy, so the film could be made with Gordon as Dolly.

by Anonymousreply 189April 30, 2025 4:16 PM

Katharine Hepburn was way too old to play Irene Molloy by the time the film of THE MATCHMAKER was made, and would arguably have been wrong for the part even if she were much younger.

by Anonymousreply 190April 30, 2025 4:24 PM

R190 Hepburn was too old for a lot of her parts. She was too old to play the part she played in The Rainmaker. Too old to play the athlete she played in Pat and Mike (she was in her mid-40s).

by Anonymousreply 191April 30, 2025 4:31 PM

R190 Anyway the point is, these two people were the ones offering their friend a chance to have a movie version of her performance (no one else was).

by Anonymousreply 192April 30, 2025 4:35 PM

Whenever anyone says Oh, So-and-so would have been a great Martha! I ask if so-and-so could do these scenes.

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by Anonymousreply 193April 30, 2025 7:59 PM

or this

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by Anonymousreply 194April 30, 2025 8:02 PM

[quote]*I* could!

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by Anonymousreply 195April 30, 2025 8:04 PM

r190, I'm going to guess that that poster is confusing Judy Holliday for Gordon. Ruth wasn't a film star per se, but she'd done films. She played Mary Todd Lincoln in Abe Lincoln in Illinois in 1940. She played Dolly on TV in 1954.

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by Anonymousreply 196April 30, 2025 9:35 PM

Myrtle Fargate, again?

Always picking on poor Mary Todd Lincoln…

by Anonymousreply 197April 30, 2025 9:52 PM

R193 So are you saying only Elizabeth Taylor could do those scenes?

by Anonymousreply 198April 30, 2025 10:02 PM

Thanks, R196, I had no idea there was a TV version of THE MATCHMAKER with Ruth Gordon.

by Anonymousreply 199April 30, 2025 10:03 PM

No, R198, the poster in question did NOT say that only Elizabeth Taylor could do those scenes. My interpretation of what he wrote was that many of the actresses suggested for the role of Martha could probably not play those scenes as well.

by Anonymousreply 200April 30, 2025 10:04 PM

Watching this now. Thanks to you bitches.

by Anonymousreply 201April 30, 2025 10:14 PM

R196 No one could confuse Ruth Gordon and Judy Holliday.

In the book, Tracy and Hepburn, Garson Kanain (who was married to Ruth Gordon), said that, after seeing their friend Ruth in The Matchmaker, Spencer and Kate offered to play in a film version, if only that would get it made. It had zero to do with Judy Holliday appearing in Adam's Rib (in 1949).

Before the 1960s, Ruth Gordon was an occasional supporting actress in films. She was a stage star. I don't see what's hard to understand about this. That's why Shirley Booth did it on film. She was an Academy Award winner and well known after winning an Osacr.

by Anonymousreply 202April 30, 2025 10:14 PM

I read that Lucy and Bette Davis, among others, did that temporary facelift thing where the skin was pulled back with elastic straps and then the straps were covered with a wig. It sounded quite painful.

by Anonymousreply 203April 30, 2025 10:18 PM

Patrick certainly is a plump little boy.

by Anonymousreply 204April 30, 2025 10:22 PM

"Why don't you do it as a movie?" Spencer said casually.

"I certainly would love to, but who's do it with me? It's bound to be an expensive picture and I'm not a movie star."

"I am," said Spencer, "And so is Zasu Pitts, here. And we've got an idea. We'd like to do it with you. How about that?"

Ruth's lips parted. Her eyes widened. She could not speak. Spencer went on.

"I could play that guy, couldn't I? Vandergelder? And she'd be marvellous as the milliner. And you play your part. Who'd turn it down?"

What made the proposal so astonishing was that two great stars were offering to play supporting roles for someone they admired.

Ruth was in tears.

--Garson Kanin, Tracy and Hepburn

by Anonymousreply 205April 30, 2025 10:29 PM

Aaron Sorkin needs to do a sequel to Being the Ricardos about the making of Mame. I’m sure Nicole would be up for it.

by Anonymousreply 206April 30, 2025 10:37 PM

R113, Ken Russell’s Tommy was not a Best Picture nominee. Though Ann-Margret was nominated for Best Actress.

by Anonymousreply 207April 30, 2025 11:17 PM

I don’t think Judy Garland would ever have played someone as vulgar as Martha. I agree she had the potential to be brilliant in the role but I don’t think she would’ve had the courage to do it.

by Anonymousreply 208April 30, 2025 11:21 PM

I was molested by Virginia Woolf.

by Anonymousreply 209April 30, 2025 11:24 PM

You have to remember that we're seeing Elizabeth Taylor's performance after the fact. There was a lot of surprise when she was cast.

The role of Martha originated with Uta Hagen, one of the great stage actresses. Casting Liz Taylor in the role seemed to be a joke to many.

None of her previous films indicated that she could tackle the role of Martha.

by Anonymousreply 210April 30, 2025 11:31 PM

At Long Last Love was recut by Bogdanovich before his passing. It's on Blu-Ray and it got good reviews when released.

by Anonymousreply 211April 30, 2025 11:48 PM

Yes I have not seen ALLL since I saw it at Radio City. I heard it had been recut. Unfortunately by the time I got a bluray player it was sold out and used copies are going for a lot of money. To be honest the audience at Radio city seemed to enjoy it. At least it was not restless as it was at 1776 which seemed to drag on forever. I mean we are talking about an audience of thousands of bored people. I mean(I know I am going to be flamed for this)but who wants to be trapped in the chamber of the continental congress for more than two hours with a bunch of Broadway hams? And I say this as a boy who played the obc constantly before the film came out.

by Anonymousreply 212May 1, 2025 12:07 AM

I thought people liked 1776. Every 4th of July, people online post about how it’s time to watch it.

by Anonymousreply 213May 1, 2025 12:21 AM

I think 1776 is one of those shows that really works better onstage—being in “the room where it happened,” so to speak. Plus, while some of the actors with film experience (Daniels, da Silva) know how to adapt their performances from the distance of the stage. Others, like Ron Holgate (who won a Tony onstage), alas, do not.

by Anonymousreply 214May 1, 2025 12:31 AM

R35 is Desi Jr., always trying to placate The Monster at home.

by Anonymousreply 215May 1, 2025 12:49 AM

Ok Queens stop with the acronyms "I never like anything LB did except for ILL" half the time I have no idea what you are talking about. The theater Queens on other boards do the same thing and most of us are like "huh" wtf?

by Anonymousreply 216May 1, 2025 1:01 AM

I remember Lucy had "Funny Girl" lined up as her next major movie musical after 'Mame'. Desi talked her out of it.

by Anonymousreply 217May 1, 2025 1:36 AM

R216 Thanks. It drives me crazy.

by Anonymousreply 218May 1, 2025 1:45 AM

I love Ralph Burns' orchestrations/arrangements of the music and background score in the movie. The opening titles by legendary Wayne Fitzgerald are an art deco feast, and Burns' adaption of Jerry Herman's original score underscores them. I think I'll go listen to it now. Bye, loves!

by Anonymousreply 219May 1, 2025 1:50 AM

Who doesn't love an art deco feast starring Lucille Ball in her 60s?

by Anonymousreply 220May 1, 2025 1:52 AM

The opening titles really are fab. And ditto the orchestrations. I love them, especially for “Loving You,” the song Herman wrote for the film.

by Anonymousreply 221May 1, 2025 2:03 AM

Lucy wanted to replace that moon number with "I am the Queen of the Gypsies!" But thankfully Gary talked her out of it.

by Anonymousreply 222May 1, 2025 2:07 AM

And by the way, whose idea was it to have Paul Zindel write the screenplay?

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by Anonymousreply 223May 1, 2025 2:10 AM

Another by the way...why didn't Robert Preston (from Newton, Massachusetts) have a southern accent?

by Anonymousreply 224May 1, 2025 2:11 AM

I remember the audience at Radio City Music Hall bursting into laughter at the ridiculous shot of Mame and Young Patrick perched on the Statue of Liberty crown spires during “Open a New Window.”

by Anonymousreply 225May 1, 2025 3:27 AM

I’ve never seen the film version of SSS. But if it’s anything like M - hard pass. I gave up at the Christmas number. The whole thing, it wasn’t very interesting. It seemed to activity repel my interest. Plus that horrible, talentless, fat little boy…I just couldn’t.

I was alive in 1974, I was 8 years old. I saw Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore, The Poseidon Adventure and The Towering Inferno. But I didn’t know anything about this Mame movie, I think, until my gay cousin mentioned it a few years later lamenting how awful it was and that they put Vaseline on the lens when shooting LB. Wasn’t BA already on Maude when this came out?

by Anonymousreply 226May 1, 2025 3:55 AM

R297. That Myrtle Lum person is nothing but a low class carnival sideshow. She and Kitty Shea and Kelly Cole must leave my son Lincoln alone!

by Anonymousreply 227May 1, 2025 5:05 AM

>>I’ve never seen the film version of SSS

What is SSS?

by Anonymousreply 228May 1, 2025 5:45 AM

It may be "1776."

by Anonymousreply 229May 1, 2025 6:05 AM

That is a new level of stupid DL code.

by Anonymousreply 230May 1, 2025 8:50 AM

[quote] Wasn’t BA already on Maude when this came out?

Maude debuted in 1972. Wasn't Gene Saks once married to Beatrice Arthur?

by Anonymousreply 231May 1, 2025 9:07 AM

I thought M was better than HD but not as good as S satrring JA. My favorite m is possibly AAIP with GK and LC, directed by VM.But I'm also a sucker for any FA mjusical, such as TBW or SS, both co-starring CC.

by Anonymousreply 232May 1, 2025 11:20 AM

If you start doing “teams” like in the tennis threads—I’m outta here.

by Anonymousreply 233May 1, 2025 11:26 AM

In 1977, Lucy had an idea to re-do the musical 'Sound of Music', with Lucy playing Maria and Gale Gordon as 'The Captain'. She asked Vivian Vance to play the Barronness. Both Lucie and Desi Jr were going to play 'all the kids'. One her way to the studio to present her proposal, EVERYONE talked her out of it.

Thank You, everyone.

by Anonymousreply 234May 1, 2025 11:47 AM

I mean, physically she’s very impressive. She has the moves, she can still dance and is totally committed to the musical aspect, bless her.

by Anonymousreply 235May 1, 2025 11:50 AM

a Fatty Arbuckle musical fan?

by Anonymousreply 236May 1, 2025 11:56 AM

[quote] She has the moves, she can still dance

She can still dance, yet she was never a dancer.

by Anonymousreply 237May 1, 2025 12:01 PM

People have justifiably forgotten THE PRODUCERS. A mediocre musical turned into a worse musical film.

by Anonymousreply 238May 1, 2025 12:14 PM

I thought she was a dancer. She did Wildcat on B’way. Wasn’t she originally a chorus girl?

by Anonymousreply 239May 1, 2025 12:24 PM

No, she wasn't a dancer. She got by as a chorus girl, but that could mean various things, in those days. Movement. Yes, she danced in Wildcat but Vivien Leigh danced in Tovarich, too, and she wasn't a dancer. Lucy certainly was not known for it.

by Anonymousreply 240May 1, 2025 12:32 PM

(She also sang in Wildcat, but that didn't mean she was a singer.)

by Anonymousreply 241May 1, 2025 12:33 PM

But I guess "she could still dance" is true, since she danced, in her life. It just sounded like something she was known for, like Ginger Rogers or someone like that.

by Anonymousreply 242May 1, 2025 12:35 PM

Has anyone mentioned 60s model sensation Twiggy in "The Boyfriend", yet?

by Anonymousreply 243May 1, 2025 4:24 PM

Our high school did a better version of The Boyfriend.

by Anonymousreply 244May 1, 2025 4:28 PM

Lucille was graceful and could handle basic ballroom but she wasn't a dancer-dancer.

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by Anonymousreply 245May 1, 2025 4:50 PM

[quote]r239 = I thought she was a dancer. She did Wildcat on B’way.

The *real* dancing in Wildcat was done by the pros.

by Anonymousreply 246May 1, 2025 4:56 PM

the one I can't get through despite the star power is Thoroughly Modern Millie.

by Anonymousreply 247May 1, 2025 4:57 PM

But you could always depend on Julie for a good soundtrack, r247.

by Anonymousreply 248May 1, 2025 5:00 PM

It's good on weed r247

by Anonymousreply 249May 1, 2025 5:01 PM

Lucy might have carried it off if they'd made it even 6 years earlier. She managed to somehow carry off Yours, Mine and Ours in 1968.

by Anonymousreply 250May 1, 2025 5:01 PM

[quote]It's good on weed

What isn't?

by Anonymousreply 251May 1, 2025 5:05 PM

I don't think so, r250. The casting of Angela in the Broadway show turned Mame into a true triple threat role. Every Mame since then seems to lack a threat...or two. Look how much dancing she did...

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by Anonymousreply 252May 1, 2025 5:07 PM

R250: Completely different kind of film. No singing.

by Anonymousreply 253May 1, 2025 5:15 PM

[quote]I’ve never seen the film version of SSS.

SSS? Will you please just stop it?

by Anonymousreply 254May 1, 2025 5:51 PM

I don't think much of Angela Lansbury's singing either.

by Anonymousreply 255May 1, 2025 5:51 PM

I'm a big fan of it, r255. To each his own.

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by Anonymousreply 256May 1, 2025 5:53 PM

[quote]I don't think much of Angela Lansbury's singing either.

Front page news!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 257May 1, 2025 6:10 PM

[quote]Look how much dancing she did..

Where, R353? I just see a lot of fancy pageant walking. TBF I didn't watch the whole thing.

by Anonymousreply 258May 1, 2025 9:42 PM

Her big three are It's Today, Mame and That's How Young I Feel, r258. Don't expect a Music and the Mirror from her. But it *is* at an impressive level considering the added vocal and acting demands of the role.

Juliet dances up a storm, but her voice and persona don't match the level of her dancing.

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by Anonymousreply 259May 1, 2025 10:16 PM

Angela Lansbury was good in roles like Mame and Gypsy through sheer hard work and stage presence. She really wasn't the type for Mame or Rose. But she made you believe she was. She was a good character actress, she sang pretty well, in a charming way, and she danced well. She had comedy timing, but wasn't herself a comic actress, like Rosalind Russell or even Ginger Rogers (the London Mame). Just my opinion.

Lucy did not have the class ot the style or something, to pull off Mame, which is sort of in the high comedy style. There really isn't a single role in Mame or Auntie Mame she was right for. (Besides being too old, and her voice was shot, and she'd recently broken her leg in a skiing accident.) Lucy liked to challenge herself, and she seemed shocked that just pushing herself to do this role didn't work, in the end.

by Anonymousreply 260May 2, 2025 12:22 AM

No one seems to have mentioned that original director of Mame, the movie, was George Cukor. He would have directed it if Lucy had not broken her leg, causing a delay which made him unavailable. Or so I've read. I don't know what that would have changed. Cukor usually did a great job, but once in a while he messed up. He wasn't like William Wyler who hardly ever made a bomb.

by Anonymousreply 261May 2, 2025 12:27 AM

^^^^ Tell us about it!

by Anonymousreply 262May 2, 2025 12:40 AM

^^How old was George when he made that one, though?

by Anonymousreply 263May 2, 2025 12:42 AM

With George directing and Madeline Kahn in supporting it could have been a funny movie. (Although you might not have had Bea, since her husband wouldn't have been directing).

Who could have played Vera otherwise?

by Anonymousreply 264May 2, 2025 12:42 AM

[quote]Lucy liked to challenge herself,

Not really, r260. Her doing Mame was pure ego. If she liked to challenge herself there wouldn't have been a Life With Lucy.

by Anonymousreply 265May 2, 2025 12:49 AM

Ginger...tried. Lansbury she *wasn't*.

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by Anonymousreply 266May 2, 2025 12:54 AM

Lucy wanted to remake 'A Star Is Born' in 1976, with Desi. Somehow, Jon Peters talked her out of it. I'm glad he did.

by Anonymousreply 267May 2, 2025 12:54 AM

R265 Whatever. I guess you and I think differently. Wildcat...a Broadway musical, at age 50, she was sick most of the time she was doing it, lost 40 pounds.

I think a lot of the physical comedy she did on her shows was about challenging herself. It probably looked easy, to you, I don't know. But if it wasn't a challenge, what was it?

by Anonymousreply 268May 2, 2025 12:55 AM

R266 I don't know what you're talking about. It ran 14 months in the West End. There was a command performance for the queen. Big hit for Ginger.

by Anonymousreply 269May 2, 2025 12:58 AM

Of course she loved to be challenged at the comedy style she excelled in, r268, that was her comfort zone.

She did Wildcat less as a challenge than a fresh start. And I'm not saying it wasn't a challenge. However, as a non-singer, non-dancer and a heavy smoker she was unable to meet the challenge. Plus, it wasn't a good show.

by Anonymousreply 270May 2, 2025 1:16 AM

Madeline Kahn as Gooch would have been wonderful.

Connell didn’t really have much of a screen presence.

by Anonymousreply 271May 2, 2025 1:17 AM

R269 they like any musical in the West End 😵‍💫

by Anonymousreply 272May 2, 2025 2:38 AM

Also, r272, the cast recording was never released.

by Anonymousreply 273May 2, 2025 2:42 AM

R270 It became her comfort zone, it didn't start out as her comfort zone.

by Anonymousreply 274May 2, 2025 2:44 AM

R270 And she also did some specials later that were outside her usual comfort zone, plus let us not forget Stone Pillow. Not to mention Mame. How was Mame in her comfort zone?

by Anonymousreply 275May 2, 2025 2:49 AM

Lucy rarely challenged herself. She portrayed basically the same character in all her series, with the same schtick. She hired the same writers forever. Her sound guy had been with her so long that he was nearly deaf. Her specials paired her with Bob Hope, etc. The one exception was the awful "Lucy in London" that attempted to make her "mod".

by Anonymousreply 276May 2, 2025 2:57 AM

They told her at John Murray Anderson's drama school that she would never make it in show business and she had no talent. She didn't let that stop her, and was determined to show them they were wrong about her. I don't know if that's considered challenging oneself. Or being the first female head of a studio. That might be considered a personal challenge to some people.

by Anonymousreply 277May 2, 2025 3:07 AM

[quote]How was Mame in her comfort zone?

I didn't say it was, r275. I said her doing Mame wasn't about challenging herself it was about her ego. Lucille was perfectly at home in light or bittersweet dramas going back to her RKO days. She just wasn't extraordinary in them.

by Anonymousreply 278May 2, 2025 3:08 AM

[quote]The one exception was the awful "Lucy in London" that attempted to make her "mod".

Quite a few of the classic Hollywood generation of stars totally embarrassed themselves in the late 60s trying to appeal to the young generation. Frank Sinatra covered the Fifth Dimension and went on tv wearing a glittery jacket that looked like it came from Sly Stone's closet, for example. It was just cringe-inducing to see the older generation trying to be hip and cool with the young sixties generation who were all about the Beatles and the Rolling Stones.

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by Anonymousreply 279May 2, 2025 3:08 AM

I didn't say it was, [R275]. I said her doing Mame wasn't about challenging herself it was about her ego.

R278 I can't imagine how you would know what her motivation was for doing Mame. Did she tell you?

by Anonymousreply 280May 2, 2025 3:11 AM

R278: She was a rather passive studio head---Desilu was basically a rental lot and she hired Herb Solow to develop pilots. She was not a great actress---she relied on schtick throughout her career and had a grating voice that just got worse with time. Even Ann Sothern, a better actress and someone who could sing, was not someone who could carry an A picture on her own.

by Anonymousreply 281May 2, 2025 3:13 AM

[quote]That might be considered a personal challenge to some people.

Of course it is, r277. But that wasn't something Lucille chose to pursue as a challenge. It was thrust upon her, she met the moment...and she hated it.

by Anonymousreply 282May 2, 2025 3:14 AM

R282 You're right. Somehow Lucille Ball started out with very little in life, went to New York several times and lived on her own as a teenager, eventually went to Hollywood, started out as a chorus girl, graduated to supporting parts, then leads, became a star, decided to try TV at around 39, became one of the biggest TV stars of all time, made more movies, did a Broadway show, had two more successful sitcoms, won Emmys, etc.,--- all without ever challenging herself.

by Anonymousreply 283May 2, 2025 3:20 AM

And running a studio--she didn't have to do it, she accepted the challenge. Nobody held a gun to her head. BUt again, I guess she was just so good at everything that nothing was a challenge to her. Amazing.

by Anonymousreply 284May 2, 2025 3:23 AM

Well I think you’re ALL wrong! After all, Lucy DID get a Golden Globe nomination!

by Anonymousreply 285May 2, 2025 9:36 AM

From Judith Crist’s 1974 New York Magazine review:

[quote]And the whole bit [Gooch’s pregnancy], ultra-magnified on screen becomes a bit tasteless, particularly since Patrick, played as a small boy by a small boy named Kirby Furlong, is a midget version of Archie Bunker. The resemblance is uncanny and unsettling.

by Anonymousreply 286May 2, 2025 9:49 AM

The movie sucked and Ball is a second rate actress who is canonized by pathetic people who think bits lifted from old movies (the conveyer belt at the chocolate factory) or vaudeville (getting drunk from patent medicine) are comic genius.

I remember watching the film for the first time (and the only time I got through most of it) many years after its release. I obviously must have been doing something better in 1974 when it came out. It was obviously bad---Lucy being permitted to sing, a rather old fashioned tale turned into a musical full of forgettable music, Lucy doing her "young lady" schtick, Robert Preston doing a hammy Southern accent. The whole thing would have been truly camp if it had not been so dull. I later found out that Jerome Lawrence was a childhood friend of one of my aunts. Perhaps when it premiered as a play it didn't seem like one of his lesser efforts.

by Anonymousreply 287May 2, 2025 10:22 AM

R287 I know it’s fun to be a contrarian, but you’re wrong. She was a great comic actress and is recognized as so by other comedians.

by Anonymousreply 288May 2, 2025 10:52 AM

I'm surprised we didn't end up with Gale Gordon as Beauregard.

by Anonymousreply 289May 2, 2025 2:22 PM

[quote]I can't imagine how you would know what her motivation was for doing Mame. Did she tell you?

Someone is allowed to have the opinion that Lucy was delusional and definitely let her ego get in the way when she took on the movie of MAME, especially given her age at the time and the fact that, throughout her career, she had gotten a lot of comic fodder over the fact that she couldn't sing. (Though her inability to sing may have been somewhat exaggerated on I LOVE LUCY, for example, it still was a basic fact.) Throw into the mix the fact that Lucy's singing was sometimes dubbed in films and TV appearances when they wanted her to sound good, plus the fact that she experienced great vocal difficulties during her run in WILDCAT, which further damaged her voice, and I think the opinion that her decision to play Mame in the movie was much more about ego than it was about "challenging herself" is a reasonable opinion that is likely shared by many people.

I would view STONE PILLOW as a good example of challenging herself, but not MAME.

by Anonymousreply 290May 2, 2025 2:46 PM

Look. She was wonderful, funny, great in I Love Lucy. Some of the episodes still stand up and are still funny. But I can't name a picture where she was memorable or good.

by Anonymousreply 291May 2, 2025 6:27 PM

Lucy was good in The Big Street and Easy to Wed

by Anonymousreply 292May 2, 2025 6:43 PM

[quote]Someone is allowed to have the opinion that Lucy was delusional

No, no one should be allowed that opinion since 'delusional' is one of the most over-used words on this forum, probably tied with 'amazing'. Both words have lost all their meanings due to over-use, and can't be taken seriously in 2025.

by Anonymousreply 293May 2, 2025 8:47 PM

Lucy was also excellent in STAGE DOOR. It's a small role, of course, but she was perfect in it.

by Anonymousreply 294May 2, 2025 9:53 PM

R293, I'm sorry if the word "delusional" triggers you, but my point is that Lucy thought she could carry off the role of MAME despite the facts that (1) she was way too old for it, and (2) whatever little singing voice she ever possessed had become even worse over the decades due to smoking, age, and probably a few other causes. So you can substitute for "delusional" whatever other word you think describes that state of mind.

by Anonymousreply 295May 2, 2025 9:56 PM

R293 Yeah, what R295 said, Miss Bossypants!

by Anonymousreply 296May 2, 2025 10:02 PM

Jerry Herman was appalled by the idea that Lucy would be Mame on screen but he claimed that the Warner producers thought they had a presold hit on her name alone. I have no idea how she got the part. Did she own the rights? Did Warner really think she was the best choice? None of it makes any sense.

And by the way Roz was asked who of the young female musical stars of the era should get the lead in the movie musical and she said Cher. Not a perfect choice by any means but who else could have done it who had name value?

by Anonymousreply 297May 2, 2025 10:24 PM

Cher wasn't yet a movie star in 1974, she was a TV star and a recording artist, but anyway that sounds way out there.

by Anonymousreply 298May 3, 2025 12:33 AM

The '70s were definitely not an Auntie Mame sort of era. Espeicially in the musical world. Cher?

[quote] Not a perfect choice by any means but who else could have done it who had name value?

Not perfect choices either, but Shirley MacLaine, Liza Minnelli or Debbie Reynolds would have been no crazier choices than Cher

by Anonymousreply 299May 3, 2025 1:08 AM

Maggie Smith would have been a great Vera Charles.

by Anonymousreply 300May 3, 2025 1:09 AM

And Ruth Buzzi would have been a good Gooch.

by Anonymousreply 301May 3, 2025 1:15 AM

[quote]And by the way Roz was asked who of the young female musical stars of the era should get the lead in the movie musical and she said Cher. Not a perfect choice by any means but who else could have done it who had name value?

An all black version with Diana Ross. It probably would have been a million times more entertaining than the Babs version.

Diana Ross was no Pearl Bailey. She would have been fundamentally wrong for the role, but her sheer tenacity could have made it work..

by Anonymousreply 302May 3, 2025 1:19 AM

The Babs version of what?

by Anonymousreply 303May 3, 2025 1:35 AM

R303 My bad. Confusing Herman's Mame with Dolly.

by Anonymousreply 304May 3, 2025 1:41 AM

Diana would have sang the shit out of "If He Walked Into My Life"

by Anonymousreply 305May 3, 2025 1:43 AM

The plot of Mame makes no sense if the characters are black.

by Anonymousreply 306May 3, 2025 1:47 AM

How old is Mame supposed to be, anyway? In her 30s?

by Anonymousreply 307May 3, 2025 1:52 AM

R299, the idea of Debbie Reynolds as Mame in the movie never occurred to me, but she actually might have been very good in the role if she had been well directed.

by Anonymousreply 308May 3, 2025 1:54 AM

Not in 1974

by Anonymousreply 309May 3, 2025 1:56 AM

[quote]The plot of Mame makes no sense if the characters are black.

Especially the scenes set in the South, at the Peckerwood plantation. Can you imagine?

by Anonymousreply 310May 3, 2025 1:58 AM

R310 Never thought of that! But, yeah,

I was thinking more about Patrick going to exclusive schools and becoming a "one of the most Babbity little snobs on the Estern Seaboard."

by Anonymousreply 311May 3, 2025 2:04 AM

R306 If Audra wins the Tony for 'Gypsy', I have a hunch she will be in a revival of 'Mame' next.

As for 1974, Ann Margret or Shirley Jones (fresh off of her run on 'The Partridge Family') could have been better than Ball.

by Anonymousreply 312May 3, 2025 3:24 AM

If Debbie could do Irene on Broadway then I'm sure she could handle Mame on screen .

by Anonymousreply 313May 3, 2025 4:07 AM

Well, except that she’s dead.

by Anonymousreply 314May 3, 2025 9:59 AM

I'm laughing picturing Ann Margret bumping and grinding as Mame.

by Anonymousreply 315May 3, 2025 10:18 AM

Debbie Reynolds (who I suggested, originally), Shirley Jones (can't picture that. Might as well have cast Doris Day)...it's more and more obvious why Lucille Ball was cast. She was one of the biggest stars in the world, or at least the US. I mean Angela Lansbury was not cast because she was not going to bring the customers in. Too bad most of the youngish big stars who could sing were wrong for the role (Julie Andrews IS Mame!).

by Anonymousreply 316May 3, 2025 10:23 AM

[quote]I mean Angela Lansbury was not cast because she was not going to bring the customers in.

But if the producers were smart, they might have looked back to Yul Brynner in THE KING AND I and Robert Preston in THE MUSIC MAN. Neither of those actor could have remotely been considered big box office stars, but the producers knew that they would be so great in their roles on the big screen that they would BECOME stars, which is exactly what happened. And both of those films were huge hits.

by Anonymousreply 317May 3, 2025 1:49 PM

[quote]I'm laughing picturing Ann Margret bumping and grinding as Mame.

Exactly ! And that is what's missing from Ball's 'Mame'. She's not entertaining enough on screen, and for a comedienne, she doesn't bring any sense of fun and excitement to the role. She's way too dry and dull. She really missed the spirit of Mame Dennis.

by Anonymousreply 318May 3, 2025 2:12 PM

Lauren Bacall as Mame? She croaked her way through musicals as well as Lucy.

by Anonymousreply 319May 3, 2025 2:27 PM

Barbra Streisand considered Mame, but Jon Peters told her she couldn’t play anyone over 30 because she’s so young and sexy.

by Anonymousreply 320May 3, 2025 2:27 PM

R320 The rumor always was that Herman wanted Streisand in his movie, but she came across as too young. (She was only 32). And she had already received criticism for being 'too young' in 'Hello Dolly'. It's too bad she didn't do it in the early 2000s when she was in her late 50 s/ early 60s.

by Anonymousreply 321May 3, 2025 2:33 PM

R321, maybe you dreamed that, but I can't believe Jerry Herman ever wanted Streisand for the MAME movie. He co-wrote the damn thing, so he of all people would understand that the story absolutely does not work if the character of Mame doesn't come across as a rich, sophisticated WASP. If the role were played by someone who's obviously Jewish, the whole thing would fall apart.

by Anonymousreply 322May 3, 2025 2:57 PM

[quote]Debbie Reynolds (who I suggested, originally), Shirley Jones (can't picture that. Might as well have cast Doris Day)...it's more and more obvious why Lucille Ball was cast. She was one of the biggest stars in the world, or at least the US. I mean Angela Lansbury was not cast because she was not going to bring the customers in.

You have to remember too that "Yours, Mine and Ours" was a huge surprise hit and that probably was a factor in casting her in Mame. Yes it was 6 years prior, but they probably thought she'd still bring in an audience.

by Anonymousreply 323May 3, 2025 3:09 PM

R322 You need to brush up on your Jerry Herman history.

He offered the movie to Streisand once again in the late 90s, but this time for an ABC TV movie he struck a deal with. He wanted her to star in the film, and she was able to negotiate directing and co-producing with him, as well. He was fine with it, agreeing she was more suitable for the role in her mid/late 50s than 30 years earlier. At some point, she no longer wanted to star (just direct and co-produce with him) - but she thought Cher should star (Cher was interested and ABC was interested). He was indifferent to Cher as 'Mame', but trusted Streisand's opinions and gave it a green light.

However, as time dragged to get the project in front of the cameras (ABC postponed it from the 2001-02 season to 2002 -03 season), Herman decided he was going to revive it on Broadway instead, along with 'La Cage' and 'Hello Dolly' - starting in 2004. He canceled the TV movie project, and set his sights on the Broadway revival for late 2005 . After he had his troubles and box office disappointment with the 'La Cage' revival in 2004, he canceled both 'Mame' and 'Hello Dolly'. That was the end of 'Mame'.

Years later, when asked about the 'Mame' TV movie starring Cher, he claimed he was 'dead set against' the idea of Cher playing 'Mame', and wanted Streisand only. He claimed that's why he pulled the project from ABC (had nothing to do with his planned revival). Cher denied this, and said Herman was excited about her starring when she initially met with him and Streisand.

by Anonymousreply 324May 3, 2025 4:15 PM

Lucy had extreme Tv exposure for many years, she won Emmys, etc. Here's Lucy ran from the late 60s to '74. She was arguably the most famous woman in the world at the time.

Yul Brynner...he was not cast opposite nobody, his costar was Deborah Kerr, a very big name at the time (top-billed).

Robert Preston was a name everyoine knew even if he hadn't become a big star in the movies...he'd been around since the 1930s. The Music Man on stage was an extreme hit, well-publicized. On the strength of it he was even cast in a movie lead 2 years before The Music Man film--The Dark at the Top of the Stairs.

I don't know how Lansbury stacked up to them, but it was not a given that she was going to be cast in the show--didn't she have to audition several times?

by Anonymousreply 325May 3, 2025 4:17 PM

Nunsense.

by Anonymousreply 326May 3, 2025 4:43 PM

I would say Lansbury was at least as well known as Robert Preston before she did MAME and before he did THE MUSIC MAN. And yes, I know Deborah Kerr was a big star. I think the hesitancy in casting someone who wasn't already a big movie star in the film of MAME was that the title character is really the whole show, so you couldn't balance the casting of a non star by putting bigger stars in other roles such as Vera, Beau, or Gooch.

by Anonymousreply 327May 3, 2025 4:45 PM

[quote]The Music Man on stage was an extreme hit, well-publicized.

The cast album was one of the biggest selling cast albums in history.

by Anonymousreply 328May 3, 2025 4:50 PM

The 70s were kind of different. Big musicals based on Broadway shows were no longer a big thing. As I said, Robert Preston in The Music Man was very highly publicized, was the hottest ticket in New York and ran for several years, it was the second My Fair Lady. Preston was on the cover of Life Magazine. The Music Man film was only five years after the show debuted and only a little time after it closed. Preston had been a sensation in the show and people anted to see why.

This was not the case with Mame, which was something like a decade after the show opened, and it was no longer a hot property and not a title that was on everyone's lips at the time.

by Anonymousreply 329May 3, 2025 4:51 PM

*wanted to

by Anonymousreply 330May 3, 2025 4:52 PM
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