Provincetown…over!

No, OP, you've got it backwards. It's not because anything is overpriced, it's because most gays are in fear these days. They won't go to these gatherings and risk becoming a target of Trump. And now it's gone too far because it's beginning to affect Pridefest.

The current politics may be a factor, but rent-seeking culture always consumes itself eventually.

We’re going for Family Week. I wouldn’t be surprised if all of Cape Cod is taking a 10 to 20% hit, hordes of Canadians normally vacation “down” on the Cape, plus among us Americans there’s a general slight pulling back from discretionary spending.

Ptown has become extremely expensive over the past 20 to 30 years — that part didn’t happen suddenly. It’s a place with unique geography and cultural appeal… and understandably fierce zoning laws. What’s already been built is pretty much what will be built.

The stock market has taken a hit and many federal workers have lost their jobs. Maybe people just don’t want to spend money on an expensive vacation.

R3, you sound correct

It's become insanely expensive. Eating, drinking, sleeping.

And overrun by drag queens. Drag this, drag that, drag everything.

There is still some building going on - the VFW lot and a lot behind Mac's Seafood - both are a mix of market based housing and very expensive condos, Just what the town needs; more rich second home owners. There's a very high end hotel project also being developed. Part of that development will be a marina for luxury boats and ships. Older houses are being bought up, renovated in gray, and sold to the highest bidders. Usually rich A-Gays as second homes. The business interests of Provincetown wanted more, more, more, and bigger and better, including cruise ships. They've learned nothing from Key West. They got what they wanted and Provincetown is the worse for it.

There is no affordable housing for the people that serve your food, serve your drinks, clean your bathrooms, and change your beds. Artists can no longer afford to live here.

Real estate is through the roof and beyond all reality. Also beyond the means of the middle class.

People are claiming a European vacation is cheaper.

Provincetown is now a playground for the very rich. The quaint fishing village full of artists and quirky people no longer exists, except in small pockets of people barely hanging on.

And then there are the people that buy their expensive house or condo in a fishing village and then complain that the fisherman make too much noise when they go out to sea in the morning. They're confused about who was there first and already there when they bought. But they have money so they usually get their way.

It used to be a family atmosphere. Now it's all business. Progress, I guess.

Great link, OP you fat idiot.

I was only there once, for an AA "round-up" the weekend after Labor Day, probably 30 years ago. I knew it would be expensive, but the traffic! I couldn't believe it.

Once was enough.

Who drives to Ptown? You take the ferry.

R9 is severely geographically challenged. If you're coming from the south, you drive up, numb nuts.

R10- I don't know about Provincetown but SHE thinks New York is OVA!

You mention news stories but don't link anything. People have been saying that P'town was over for at least 20 years and some how it survives.

The mass tourism areas of Cape Cod like Hyannis or Buzzard's Bay are probably more vulnerable to declines in Canadian tourists.

R10 you sound VERY suburban. Anyone who knows enough to avoid sitting in Route 6 gridlock from May through September takes the ferry, no matter which direction they’re coming from.

And you sound like a VERY waspish cunt r13. I just know we’ll get on.

I only wish I were as sophisticated and worldly wise as you, R13.

We only have the best boys here at DL!

You just know you'll get on the ferry, r14?

R12, how about contributing instead of complaining?

This wasn’t hard.

it would be nice if it weren't so expensive

I sound suburban you say, R13? Ha! I'm living in Manhattan for the past 30 years. That's strike 2, you dumb fucking cunt. Don't go into the prediction business. You suck at it.

And you’re the dumbass who pays to own a car in Manhattan, R19.

I don’t get the “bad water”? I 🥰 Provincetown

According to the Town of Provincetown’s website, the only ferry service to P-town is from Boston.

Who, coming from RI, CT, or NY or points west would take the time it takes to drive there, pay $40 or more per night to park in Boston, and then take the ferry instead of flying to Logan and taking a water-taxi to the dock or taking a train or bus to Boston’s South Station and walking a couple of blocks to the ferry piers? Either would add at the very least two hours travel time each and cost a lot more than driving.

Flying from NYC to Provincetown is possible but pricey: $500-plus now, more in high season during the summer.

I believe there are some sewage problems, R21, especially in the summer when DL fave Andrew Sullivan starts unloading her enormous deuces into the already overtaxed sewer system.

R23 = The Ghost of Ehrenstein

I've been going since 1986 and the town has absolutely changed. It's much older and wealthier now. In the 80s and 90s, you could go for a night or two and stay at The Gifford House for peanuts. Now every place is a 5-night minimum and hundreds of dollars every night. So there are far fewer young gays and that's a problem.

But it's still one of the greatest gay places in the US - maybe the best. And the beaches are gorgeous and there's still lots of silly charm.

And now there are more sharks in the water!

I should have also added that many B&B's are being bought and converted to single family homes. The B&B's that remain - and some restaurants - are being swallowed up by hospitality conglomerates. The conglomerates are also buying up small motels and hotels. All these changes are adding to the increased expense of visiting Provincetown.

And the drug culture is massive, which doesn't help.

I mentioned a marina and used the word "ships"; what I meant was yachts. Yachts. They are building a marina for rich people that can park their yachts here while they stop for dinner or a stroll down Commercial Street.

It's big business here. If it ever was one big happy gay and lesbian and artist and weirdo family, it no longer is.

MY husband and I used to go to Provicetown every single summer up until 2017 when we went to Europe for our 20th. When we were feeling fancy during our week stay, we would eat at Joon Wine bar on the east end, sit at the bar and have dinner. We'd start by sharing their duck sliders, which we loved and which were about $15 for the appetizer. Now when I look, they are $30. Everything is much more expensive.

Can people tell me about Herring Cove, is it still there? The last time we were there, so much of the beach had eroded. And I read somewhere they were not going to save it. Is that indeed the case? Has the dick dock washed away?

The ferry?! As someone living south of Massachusetts, I’ve only ever arrived in P-Town on Cape Air or by private plane.

Well you best stick to your private plane, dear.

Cape Air no longer flies in and out of Provincetown in the off season and may be - I stress may be because it's being negotiated as we speak - ending ALL service to Provincetown.

The rest of us will have to depend on the ferry and Route 6.

Strike 3! You tedious, insufferable twat aka, R9, R13, R16, & R20. FYI, there are these places where you can rent a car, and split the cost with a group of friends.

Tell us, did your parents have any children who lived? I'd say keep your mouth shut before you make a fool of yourself, but we're way past that now.

R31 I’m not the person you are attacking but I have to say, your level of venom and anger on a message board with absolute strangers is totally uncalled for and in very poor taste. There’s no reason for such vitriol - you don’t prove a point, you just make yourself look poorly. Take a deep breath and relax.

R29 = why Ptown sucks now

R28 here, I forgot to add that in all those years we went, we always rented a car and drove up from NYC. But then one year we took a train to boston and then the Ferry to PTOWN and thought, why in the hell haven't we been doing this all along? The drive from NYC can be anywhere from 6 hours to 10, depending on traffic and it is not relaxing. And the train from Penn Station to Boston was super easy, you walk a bit to the Ferry, and then boom, you're in PTOWN. You arrive in the same time as "the best cast scenario" driving and you arrive less stressed out.

R33 NAILED it.

Last winter, a firm bought the Provincetown Inn in the far West End. They already owned 4 other motels/motels in town. At the same time, they purchased the old Bill White's Motel, on the Route 6 rotary near Herring Cove Beach. The new owners bought the former Bill White's Motel with the express purpose of converting it to worker housing.

But having a large % of hotel/motel rooms in a resort town owned by one entity does not bode well for lower prices any time soon.

And before any of you queens jump on my shit, I'm specifically referring to hotel/motel rooms, not guest houses or boarding houses.

Last winter [2024] I called the Brass Key to reserve a room for a week on summer. The lowest available rate was $1,000 a night. Insane.

(And I’ve never noticed the drug culture when I’m there.)

The current hot drug in Ptown is Eliquis, R37.

That should give you some hint of the town's current clientele.

Never been.

I still love Ptown but won’t be going until the orange one is gone. I think most Canadians feel that way about traveling to the USA at this point. We’re sick of being antagonized for no reason.

R28

Herring Cove info below.

You'll be happy to know that the Dick Dock is still there and as active as ever. Still below the Boatslip where one can sip on $15 watered down drinks on lazy afternoons after the beach.

Working people and artists are being pushed to live on boats in the harbor during the summer months, when apartment rentals jump to 4 or 5k a month.

Air b and b has virtually destroyed the year round rental market, because why rent a studio for 2k a month /12k a year, when you can rent it for 4k a WEEK may-October and then leave it empty for the winter.

This summer is gonna be a mess. Everyone is assuming that there isn’t going to be a problem with the J1 visa kids who come in to live 4 to a room for the summer but given our new national policy towards immigrants I’m not so confident things will work out

I would also put this town at the top of the list for a domestic terrorist attack.

[quote]I still love Ptown but won’t be going until the orange one is gone.

Of course, I understand your feelings, but do you actually think you would feel unsafe in P-Town because of P-Town, or would have less of good time there than in the past because of him?

R43

R40s reluctance to visit Provincetown is because they are Canadian, not that they feel unsafe. Canadians are staying away for other reasons.

At least the hot Easter European fliers manning the bike transfers remain. They know what we like to see and one of them would show is cock for $20 bucks.

Y'all may not be able to afford P-town, but you felines desperately need to go on vacation somewhere, stat.

Is this is what happens when poppers are outlawed?

Meow.

Nobody goes there anymore , it’s too crowded

Thanks, R44. I didn't get that, and I can certainly understand why no one from ANY other country would want to visit anywhere in the U.S. while Trump is still in power.

[quote]At least the hot Easter European fliers manning the bike transfers remain.

Of course, I know what you're referring to, but why do you call them "fliers" and "bike transfers?"

There’s always Saugatuck.

P-Town started crumbling away as soon as Ruby's shut down.

The Eastern European Boys drive the pedicabs. Shirtless. With gorgeous bodies. They know who their customers are and know how to attract business and a bigger tab (the pedicabs do not have a fixed cost as cabs do.)

Some are a bit homophobic though, so beware. Even if they advertise the goods, doesn't mean you get any. Or even have the right to touch the goods.

And others, well, if the price is right they'll do more with their dicks than just show them.

Well, at least your car can have a lovely place in Ptown.

Parking spaces go upwards from there to $100k.

And a few years ago a two-car garage went for over $300k. It's being used as an office.

400,00+ for a 200 square foot condo!

R50 - Saugatuck is such a disappointment - VERY small town, 1 gay bar complex - with little else. Only a handful of decent restaurants. It sucks - AND it's not cheap anymore either.

Take Provincetown and reduce it by 90% - and it's not really walkable - you need a car to get around. Look, it's OK - but it's not in the same league as Provincetown.

People need to stay away instead of spending more and more for the same stuff each year.

The town also has a really bad meth problem and many of the hot spots in town are run by guys with active addictions. I won’t say which but you might be able to guess.

Bearweek in Sitges is the cheaper alternative to Ptown Bearweek.

Which town, R57, P-town or Saugatuck?

Harder to guess w/o saying which seaside resort or referencing either the post above yours or the thread topic

Ptown

R58, I enjoyed Sitges when I was there, I must say. Obviously you have the cost of getting there. It reminds of what PTOWN used to be because you still have a mixed gay/straight town. The Gay scene is very lively and all of the beaches are open and accepting. The beaches range from family, to mixed, to mixed nude to gay nude to gay fuck beaches.

R52. My friend and I shared one of those bikes with a funny old queen. He was hitting on that manly smelling bike rider the entire time. But he was kind enough to pay for our ride so we let him have his fun.

He offered the guy $20 to see his cock. Rider countered with $40, but no touching. Flashed it quick and got his money.

Most just flirt and leave it at that.

I've recently run into comments like R43 's in other forums as well, and I think the posts are insincere. They make it sound like Canadians are overreacting out of fear for their safety.

Hey R43 and other trolls, the Canadians are staying away because they're boycotting the US, because the US elected a xenophobic criminal who has been demonizing Canada, threatening to invade it, and imposing tariffs on imports from Canada. They are staying away because they don't like the US, not because they're afraid. They are offended at our behavior and think it is wrong and immoral. They are disgusted, not frightened.

ugly water?

too many massholes in p-town.

Where are the gay fuck beaches in Sitges? Google Earth coordinates please.

R66 it is Playa del Hombre Muerto which you can google earth yourself. I'll link a description of it below instead. It's supposedly the World's Oldest Gay Nude Beach. Scroll down to Playa del Hombre Muerto in the article. I went to Playa Blamins when I was there, which is a nude beach as well, even though it's about 50%. You don't have to go nude, but you can enjoy those who do. Sitges has a fun, easy going campy gay feel to it. It's not too over the top but for for a vacation. That's what reminds me of Ptown with a lot less attitude and better food. We stayed at the Hotel Calipolis, which isn't necessarily a gay hotel, but it might as well be. Nice hotel, and the best breakfast buffet I've had anywhere in a long time. It just as everything.

If some of you bitter queens are representative of the Ptown demographic it sounds like hell on Earth.

I remember PTOWN being, because of the dearth of options in the pasty looking crowd, that the most basic attractive guy becomes like an Adonis by the end of your week-long stay. An actual attractive guy is like a God stepping down from Mt. Olympus. You have a lot of jacked bodies with even more jacked up faces.

OP, is fried food supposed to sound bad?

I’m staying home with my canned goods.

R2 How can that make sense? The apartment I rent is 300 years old.

It's delicious but notoriously cheap and a great way to hide bad or inexpensive ingredients r70. Restaurants always fry up their old stuff. So the last thing you really want to have to pay a lot of money for is fried food as the OP suggests happens in Ptown.

R73 They make chowder out of the old stuff that's why it's so good.

Going on vacation to be around a large number of other gay men is something I grew out of, thankfully. I loathe crowds of any sexuality and prefer quieter vacations in sleepy beach towns. I invite who I want and we cook, get dinner catered or go out to a regular local seafood place. Come home, sit on the deck and listen to the ocean and stargaze. I use to love running around with the gay pack but I would be so miserable doing that now. The last time I went to PV, the whole thing gave me a headache. Gross beach. Pesky peddlers. Strippers. Shitty drinks. Food poisoning. And dizzy queens acting like silly magpies. The one thing I loved were the shows at the Palm. Great performers. As you can imagine, I am an eldergay at 58.

r40 We do feel that way about going across the line to shop, do business or vacation. We don't hate America so much as the Orange Shitstain's retarded Muskesque 25% tariffs. Also COVID is still around, the Avian flu is a thing and the measles/various other diseases the Unvaxxed Imbeciles are spreading all make us think staycation.

R67 that beach looks hideous.

Well, I’m sure John Waters is looking forward to spending the summer there with less poors.

He used to be so cool.

[italic]fewer[/italic] poors, r78!

R3 You are 100% correct. It's hitting all of the Cape, not just Provincetown.

One friend of mine lives on Martha's Vineyard year round. For the past decade or so, she has taken a short part-time job from January - April working for a local, very popular hotel processing on-line reservations for the Spring - Summer. Their season usually starts Mother's Day weekend and ends around Columbus Day in which the hotel is 100% booked. She has always said the majority of their guests are from Canada, as well as NY-NJ-CT.

Usually, by the end of January, all the tourists coming for an extended stay (a week or longer) are booked - they picked their weeks. By the end of February, every weekend is filled (you have to book Friday - Monday there during 'the season'). By the end of March, all the left-over weekdays (Tues-Thurs) are booked. In April, it's 'the left-overs' : whatever one-nighters or so fill the calendar, usually guests who don't realize they should've called earlier. By April 15, she's done with her job as the whole summer is booked for the hotel.

I was talking to her last night, and she said business is off about 30 - 35%. She's never seen anything like this. The owners have been calling around talking to other hotel owners and B&B owners - same thing all over the island and even on Nantucket. They called the Steamship Authority - best barometer to check because everyone makes car reservations as early as possible to bring their cars over. SSA said they're down around 30 -35 % as well, They still have plenty of availability for May - July.

It's unheard of - something the island has not seen in decades.

As a side note, another friend of mine is the manager of a local 'summer theater' in the MA / RI area. He's been there 20 years. Premium subscription packages (best seats/ highest prices) went out back in February. Usually by now they're getting about 75% of these renewals in, with another 10% returned in April; whatever is not renewed by then, they are able to sell to new premium subscribers. Again, most subscribers for these premium packages are yearly tourists from Canada, as well as CT-NY-NJ (subscriptions are passed from generation to generation - some subscriptions are left in 'the will').

This summer ? Renewals are around half of what they should be. They're scratching their heads wondering if it's the line-up they chose for the summer (all light-weight musicals, as usual). But now they're realizing it's a change in tourism all over the region and most Canadians have not renewed - not the line-up for the season (I told him about my friend on MV, which gave him a big sigh of relief).

It's going to be a very tough summer tourist season EVERYWHERE. But this is what America obviously wanted, otherwise we'd have President Harris in the White House.

Shit's getting too expensive. $1000 a night for a hotel room in Provincetown is absolutely ridiculous.

Good info, R80. I will add that Martha’s Vineyard bookings are also likely affected by last year’s ferry work action where the ferries were not operating on a normal schedule and people were getting stuck there.

It’s a huge choke point.

R81 - I'm seeing quite a few for $350-$450 per night. Still a lot more expensive than what it used to be. $1000 night isn't common.

But point still stands - add in airfare for two, two $128 ferry tickets, 6 nights - you're well over $4000 already for a week visit - and that's without meals or drinks or entertainment yet - so closer to $5500 for a week. And that's not even a really nice hotel - more on the average side. Yes, that's for a couple, but damn.

You could easily have a nice week in Europe for the same price.

I

I miss the quieter Provincetown of up till, say, the late ‘90s. Yeah, I’m old now. But it still had a bit more of its pre-social media bohemian, underground, and small-stores aesthetic compared with now.

I’m glad for everybody who still visits, owns and/or otherwise enjoy themselves there. I just wonder if the aging gay demographic buying everything up, is made up very much of extended family or children who’d be interested in carrying on and maintaining those properties in the next 10, 20 years? There are going to be a lot of single or paired Boomer and Millennial gays aging out, and maybe becoming unable to age in place or without assistances.

Perhaps then the town will transition into a next phase, with the artists types or former native-born families moving back in. Once you can get there (yes, by the ferry preferably and nicely), it is magical fun to experience at least once or more times. I’m just unsure if the younger gays will embrace all that commuting, spending, time, interest and money there collectively in the decades to come (?).

Has Marc Jacobs been completely rinsed out of PTown’s hair or does he still have a home there? I know his store closed a while ago - even though a wing of the library was named after him.

Goodness r75 sounds boring and pretentious. So delicate that they can’t bare to vacation near a crowd and instead must be in some sleepy straight beach town to fit in with the other mummies and eat bland food. What a treat, but at least he can feel above the gays.

I stayed there a couple of times the better part of 40 years ago and enjoyed it enough. It was a couple of small hotels and mostly slightly shabby guest houses/B&B's. It was a fairly diverse mix of locals/permanent residents, holiday people who spent much of the season there, and visitors from near and far (I met a good many from California, so e of whom I would later encounter in farther afield parts of the world.

I'm not a sun and sand and sip drinks sort, which colored my opinion, but it was a pleasant place to relax for a week, find some favorite spots to eat, and meet a few new people.

Reports and images of the place in more recent years suggest it's much more expensive and engineered and hierarchical. For $500 to $1000 a night, there are endless places I'd rather be than watching A-listers and A-list wannabes sort themselves in order of presumed importance.

While you, R86, sound like an insecure relic.

I don't think it will ever be "over." We Can't afford Ptown so for the past decade we go to Wellfleet for a week and drive up to have at least one dinner at the Lobster Pot, a drink or three at A-House, and a walk through the village. I love it even though the water is full of sharks and too cold to swim. You can go to First Encounter Beach on the bay side where the water's warmer and too shallow for Great Whites. Wellfleet is boring but on the corner of the street to our cottage is the PB Boulangerie which always has a crowd of people getting fresh pastries and boil in bag things like Beef Bourguignon. Love the Cape and even with the high prices you can usually find a place to stay that won't break the bank.

Back in the day (80s and 90s) it was still quaint, and specialized. P-town was never attracting 'everybody' (except for maybe day-trippers) in the gay community, but for the wealthy gays who could afford it and keep it exclusive (almost secluded) community for the gay community. But since the turn of this century, the younger gay generations who inherited that wealth have plenty of other options and don't need to go to an 'exclusive' gay area to enjoy their summer. And the more of the mixed-crowd heading to the tip of Cape Cod, the more the real estate has been gobbled up and has become even more unaffordable to most.

I highly doubt it's because gays are fearful of being rounded up by Trump.

It's a combination of other issues (many caused or made worse by Trump) such as an uncertain economic situation and boycotts from Canadian visitors.

Is Fire Island still the place to go for NYC boys?

R86 If your lucky, you may get old one day too.

-R75

R93 - I'm only a few years younger than you and I still enjoy PV - as do many gay men, some of whom are significantly older than 58.

peddlers are unfortunately all over Mexico - I agree that they are tiresome, but there's still a great vibe in PV and a lot of choice of very good restaurants and entertainment, which is rare for most beach communities.

Food poisoning isn't common - PV's water is filtered and treated and many hotels and restaurants have their own additional filtration, so something else strange must have happened to you. Not saying it can't happen outside of the city - I have heard stories in the all-inclusives and other places far north, but it is definitely not a common ailment.

58 is not that old either. I think you may have gone at the wrong time - you couldn't pay me to be in PV during Christmas/NYE, Easter, Bear Week or any other party week. It's way too much - but I think your criticism of PV is a bit over the top and not a common experience.

Young gays are going to be young gays - along with the best and worst of what that brings. Don't feel like you have to compete or participate.

[quote]For $500 to $1000 a night, there are endless places I'd rather be than watching A-listers and A-list wannabes sort themselves in order of presumed importance.

There is some of that in Provincetown, but I would say it's a small part of the total experience, and easily avoidable.

A-listers and A-list wannabes? Tell me you’ve never been there without telling me!

First of all, lots of people who vacation in Ptown stay to themselves. They go for bike rides, find small places for meals, etc. Aside from from tea at the Boatslip, it’s not a scene.

I know during certain theme weeks it can be more of a scene but when I’m there people are just being themselves.

R96 - for me, most theme weeks are to be avoided - anywhere - Ptown, Palm Springs, Wilton Manors, PV - prices are higher, it's harder to get the accommodations or reservations you want, everything is significantly more crowded to the point of being uncomfortable and not relaxing.

Maybe 20-30 years ago these weeks were better but many of them have become a victim of their own success.

I remember Provincetown in the 70s and early 80s, as a child.

R94 Lately we've enjoyed Sayulita and Punta Mita. We like beach service without being jammed together with people like Los Muertos in PV. And we're not fans of club music, disco remixes and or techno. I went to PV for 25 years. Back when Blue Chairs was the only spot. Now the only beach club I enjoyed from recent memory (5 years ago) was Saphire(?). Had a lovely European vibe and more comfortable chairs. I totally agree that PV is a great place for people of all ages. Just not for me and my husband. Been there done it. I may be called a pretentious snob but we are at the point where we like to rent villas on the beach in the Caribbean with a staff. We've worked hard for many years and are now able to do what we want. Say hi to Diana and Christine (Party! Party!) for me. Both great ladies.

R99 - I get that. Agree that Saphire is a more low-key club except the pool is not heated, which really sucks. It can get VERY cold - even with the daily sunshine.

They've toned down the music a bit at Mantamar, but it was over the top for far too long there.

Zona Romantica has been a victim of its own success - it is only so big and it keeps getting more and more crowded with no place to build except up.

I still enjoy the varied nightlife - which is so much broader than any other gay destination I can think of. There are now what 3 or 4 places doing nightly entertainment? And thankfully a lot more options than just drag.

Act2's director died and it lost some of its quirkiness, but is still fine. Plus there are plenty of great restaurants and bars - I'm past the club stage in my life, but I appreciate that it is there and close by.

Ptown has a decent job with entertainment but not nearly enough. Wilton Manors and Palm Springs for some weird reason have almost nothing - some sporadic events, but not multiple venues with multiple acts a night. It's a shame and I don't understand why they don't have more of it. Although PS downtown theater is re-opened, that will bring something to downtown again.

And Ptown's restaurant scene is...lacking.

I live in Chelsea. The last thing I need is a gay vacation.

[quote]I live in Chelsea. The last thing I need is a gay vacation.

That joke would have been funny 25 years ago or so, but how gay is Chelsea anymore?

Does John Waters still say "I don't think anything's changed here"?

I was in Provincetown a few weeks ago for a weekend, so very off-season and not inundated with the tourism that posters are complaining about. I was looking for a place to kick back but the spa I tried had a bathing suit policy and honestly wasn't much of a spa anyway; certainly didn't have much of a gay male vibe when I was there. Any recs? I get up to boy beach occasionally for the day, but I'll park at the Herring Cove lot and walk up rather than try to find parking in town and then walk through the tide marsh. So I mainly avoid the crowds.

R102. Plenty gay enough.

[quote] It's not because anything is overpriced, it's because most gays are in fear these days.

Complete nonsense, R1.

We get it.

I think it’s spelled OVAH

$9 for a basic ice cream says it all.

Mark Cortale, who's been producing for years some great entertainment in Provincetown, lost the lease at The Art House. The owners want to open a bar/restaurant in the space - as if Provincetown needs another mediocre bar/restaurant.

So the town is losing a great venue for real entertainment. He's still going to produce some shows at Town Hall, but that self-selects for much bigger artists to fill that space. Every summer at The Art House there was incredible talent and shows - people that were very, very good, but not big enough to fill Town Hall. It was a great place to discover new talent at affordable ticket prices. Gone now.

That talent vacuum will unfortunately be filled with more and more drag shows with more and more drag queens. 5% talented, 5% mediocre, and 90% shit. Plenty of vacationers - and residents - would like to strangle RuPaul.

So among other things, Provincetown is losing great entertainment. More of the magic that made the place so special gone.

R109, I completely agree with you about the idiocy that has happened with The Art House. And I wonder when/if the space is going to be reconfigured as planned, because that didn't happen last season, even though Cortale had already been thrown out.

What is going on at the crown and anchor?

[QUOTE] That joke would have been funny 25 years ago or so, but how gay is Chelsea anymore?

It's still more gay than Peoria.

R109 - that's sad - and I'm with you about the drag shit.

There were a lot of good older drag (Varla Jean) who were really talented and had good original new hour long shows every year. They seem to be overshadowed by 5th place Drag Race winners with not as much talent or wit.

But I assure you - the drag stuff is EVERYWHERE now. God - it has taken over so much - drag brunch, drag dinner, drag tours, etc. I'm glad they're able to make money and have more venues - but it's inescapable. Too much of a good thing for sure.

And too many really FAT/obese middle-age to older drag queens squeezing themselves like sausage into these costumes who are out of their breath just getting up on stage.

Once saw Varla Jean Merman perform there, and she was fantastic! I was quite surprised how butch and manly she was outside of her "work clothes".

We go every summer and the housing prices have gotten insane. My friends say that flying to Hawaii or Europe is cheaper so have started going there instead

R109-Isn't Cortale the asshole who's re-opening the Laurie Beechman Theatre in that shit restaurant on 42nd Street?

No, R116. You are extremely confused -- aside from being a bitchy asshole.

PTown used to be a pretty low-key place for NY and New England gays. Unpretentious and laid-back. Not all that expensive. Sadly that has all changed.

Provincetown has been very expensive for as long as I can remember. I distinctly recall looking into vacationing there in the mid 1990s, which would have been my first trip there, but as I researched places to stay etc., it seemed so expensive that I decided I could go to Europe for about the same amount of money. Which is what I wound up doing.

I have been to P-Town many, many times since, partly because I've been lucky to find affordable places to stay, and have come to love it. But it ain't cheap.

Define "ugly water."

[quote] So delicate that they can’t bare to vacation near a crowd

Oh, deah!

Please. My parents went to Ptown in the 50s when it was an “arts colony,” an early taste of Laguna in the 60s. They complained back then, too…

[quote]My Aunt Edith from Harwichport

Oh, deah yahself, Aunt Edith.

It's Harwich Port.

Datalounge thinks every tourist spot in the US is funded by Canadian travelers

R111

[quote]What is going on at the crown and anchor?

Drag Queen Central. They used to have good talent in season as well, but owner/management changed. And not for the better. They're trying to cater to a younger crowd, but stumbling along. They kicked out the entertainment institutions.

Also, no one should be surprised if it implodes.

R125 - looks like the have the same acts booked every week through mid-September. And yes - primarily drag queen shows in the evening - plus a drag queen brunch! How original!

I'm sorry but Anita Cocktail as a drag name is just as corny, basic and groan-inducing as it sounds. Zero effort at all. It's so stupid, it offends me.

Smell her! Er, him! They?!

Dear Aunt Edith would go down to New Bedford quite often in the summer, telling people she liked swimming in Clarks Cove. What she REALLY liked was swimming in all that Portuguese cock. She couldn't get enough of it, they would fill her every orifice. She was known as "The foda-se buraco of New Bedford."

We went to Ptown every year for about 15 years, renting a house with friends. It was always a lot of fun but, as others are saying, it kept getting more and more expensive. And doing the same shit - beach, tea, drinks, dinner, drinks, bars...was getting monotonous. Finally one of our group insisted we'd could do Spain for cheaper and have a much better time. So we did that for a few summers and it was fantastic. Sitges, Malaga, San Sebastian, Barcelona, Madrid, Valencia. We ate and drank like kings on every trip and yes it was cheaper. The guys were hotter and nicer too.

For the last couple of summers, we've rented a house on Mt Desert Isle in Maine. So much more our speed.

Though I do miss Ptown of yore. But that's part of a world that's been decimated by capitalism. Oh well.

The Gifford house is apparently the hottest spot in town nowadays.

oh please don't start sending this garbage to my Maine

I had many epic visits to Ptown but even in my prime 20s and 30s couldn’t handle more than about four days. I still go to the Cape every summer but stay elsewhere and spend a day or two in Provincetown. That’s enough.

I have a hot, sexy friend who used to offer 'erotic' massage around the country, and then settled in P-town about 15 years ago on his mid 20s. He figured he had it made as a masseur, rented a spot on a busy street, found an apartment to live in, and discreetly offered 'erotic massage' along with legit massage. Charged top dollar. As summers went by, he was cutting way back on 'erotic massage' - the gay community was no longer as interested as they once were. Times changed. He's still open, still hot and sexy for someone in his early 40s, still successful enough to keep his business going and living year round (alone now) in P-town. But - as he says - the community has changed.

R132 - I'd say that's about the right amount of time for me in ANY gay destination - 4 nights and I'm done.

Which is more over-priced: Ptown or Fire Island?

[Quote] I still go to the Cape every summer but stay elsewhere and spend a day or two in Provincetown. That’s enough.

What are some other good towns to stay in?

Anyone been to Ogunquit in Maine? Is it comparable?

R123 Hey, smartass.

Harwich Port (also spelled Harwichport) is a small affluent seaside community and census-designated place (CDP) situated along the Nantucket Sound in the town of Harwich in Barnstable County, Massachusetts, United States.

Arr-witch? Or not ye?

R136 Brewster.

R133, how would I look up your friend when I'm in P-Town this summer? Where does he advertise?

I spent my first 20 years spending each summer on the cape. In North Eastham. It's just a little above the elbow. It was the most beautiful spot in the world. With one of the most beautiful beaches. Coast Guard Beach. They had strict building regulations and the coast guard owned most of the land around our house. We would go to PT once or twice during the summer. It was a time when parents could let their kids run free and they could go eat and drink. I love the cape but mostly for memories. All my changes are there. I went back a few years ago and it was disappointing. Everything is better when you're young though.

R136 I'm not the poster you are asking, but Orleans and Welfleet are nice towns to visit, too (albeit expensive) and near Ptown.

No love for Eastham, R143?

Watch out for the lace curtain Irish up Cape.

Orleans borders North Eastham to the South and Wellsfleet to the north. We used to get our school clothes at world of watson's in Orleans because we wouldn't be home in time to do it. Of course those were the days when a salesman came in measured you and then your mother pointed to the things she wanted and would come pick them up in a few days all in your size. Back in the day there was no cable and you got next to no TV stations. So it was nights out on the deck, lots of card and board games. Walks. Bird watching. It was a great place to spend your summers as a kid.

Some of us had to work all summer — do chores

If I flew economy (I wouldn't because I'm old, but let's say I'm young) to Barcelona ($600, nonstop), take the train to Sitges, stay in a nice hotel for around $2000, why go to Provincetown? If you share the hotel room, you'd be looking at MAX $2000 for a week in September. Beautiful weather, beautiful men, great food.

And it could be done for much less.

Can't you stay in a motel in Truro or something?

Oh god. I've forgotten about Truro.

[quote]Anyone been to Ogunquit in Maine? Is it comparable?

R137. No, there is no comparison between Ogunquit and Provincetown. Ogunquit is a nice small town. Maine can be quaint, scenic and laid back, but it's an entirely different destination, feel, vibe, size and experience compared to Provincetown. Going to Provincetown is like going to a big Broadway hit show. Going to Ogunquit is like attending a small community theatre. Each has its place, but there really is no comparison.

I prefer southern Maine to the Cape.

And by the way, R137, both Provincetown and Ogunquit have their gay clientele. But the scope, size, age of the people and overall energy is like night and day. It's not even like Ogunquit is like a mini-me Ptown. It's just different. Ogunquit is probably considerably less expensive without requiring a mandatory, multi-night stay. Here's the comparison between the two: Would you prefer to go Christmas shopping in the hustle and bustle with the surrounding lights and action or would you rather see a few people at a couple of shops in your small town square and that's it? Provincetown isn't even comparable to Fire Island. In Provincetown, you walk Commercial Street and the surrounding guest houses. In Fire Island--at least in the Pines, there aren't even any streets--it's boardwalks with houses tucked away. It's just an entirely different experience. Both are great, but they are vastly different--and very expensive.

The beaches are accessible in all three places, but more accessible in Fire Island and within walking distance. Ogunquit is a driving town, so you drive to the beach. The beach in Provincetown is a long walk outside the center of town, so you'll have to drive or take a pedi-cab.

r136, Dennis, Brewster, Harwich, Chatham, Orleans. No gay scene but within an hours drive of Ptown. Eastham, Wellfleet and Truro are closer but have limited places to stay and restaurants.

Ogunquit does have the Ogunquit Playhouse. It's not like it was in its glory days, with the big stars and beautiful sets (I saw a few of those shows when I was a kid). But it still is a beautiful summer theatre with nice grounds.

With the recent death of Pauline Fisher, the owner of MAP, a piece of Provincetown is definitely lost. I remember she’d make all her money after the tea dance. My boyfriend and I would go in there lit and buy up stuff. It was a great store with cool pieces. Where else could you buy a necklace made by Pulitzer Prize winning author Michael Cunningham? She was a Ptown staple for 30 years.

Pauline was the most recent of a string of unexpected and grim deaths to hit the community this past year.

This past fall a beautiful young modelesque woman who bartended at the red inn shot herself after a sudden descent into mania

A couple months prior to that a beloved young man who was a classical flutist and dog walker was found dead in his back yard apparently of a drug overdose.

Over the summer another young artist died of a rare and aggressive brain cancer

Strangest of all one Wednesday night with no warning the Ukrainian boy toy turned husband of a local hard partying billionaire allegedly barricaded himself in a room of one of thier houses and slit his own throat

There are many who question whether or not this was actually suicide. Especially since the husband, after finding the body, decided to manage the shock by taking a swim fully clothed in the ocean at 4 am. But he’s a billionaire and nobody dares say anything aloud in town

It’s a dark place at times

R157 "... a beloved young man who was a classical flutist and dog walker was found dead... "

Were they rescue dogs?

I met Eric, the gay flutist, when I visited in 2019 and he was the sweetest man. So sad.

that last one is scary, R157.

R75 Round these parts 58 is a twink

R157 at least give us a name, or some info to search on. If it were that dark…we’d know about from the news…

"With the recent death of Pauline Fisher, the owner of MAP, a piece of Provincetown is definitely lost. "

OMG, this is r129, I had no clue Pauline died. Wow. How awful. When in Ptown, I'd be in Map several times throughout the week and would drop money I didn't have on her stuff. She had a brilliant curatorial eye and was always fun to talk to and gave GREAT advice on looks, where to get swift vintage, etc. She actually talked me out of buying a $300 wallet at her place when she took a look at my beat up Paul Smith one and encouraged me to find a tailor to restitch it. Which I did. Still have that thing in my back pocket.

She takes a massive piece of Ptown's soul with her.

Seriously, I'm bummed. RIP Pauline. :(

So bummed. Yet you had no clue she was dead. 🧐

Up yours, R164, for that evil, gratuitous comment. This person who died was not a national celebrity, so it's perfectly understandable that R163 might not have known of the death.

"So bummed. Yet you had no clue she was dead. 🧐"

something tells me you vote Republican.

The Provincetown Tennessee Williams Festival just announced that this coming festival would be the last.

And that happens in the off-season. Everything is just too damn expensive for the festival to endure.

I attended the festival in 2022 after not having been in P-town since 1997. The town still has its charms, but it's now old gay money. And not the interesting rich gays. Corporate homos, big-firm lawyers, sleepy retirees. So the bohemians and artists and locals who made the place special and charming have been priced out and won't soon return. I enjoyed my time there well enough, but I get my fill of boring rich gays (and straights) in Manhattan; don't need to travel a distance to have that experience. Won't be returning anytime soon.

My husband and I enjoy walking the cemetery which is filled with 18th century dead children and 80s/90s AIDS victims.

Like so many other places, gay and straight, Provincetown’s success made it too expensive for the people who made it successful.

Dead children? Tell me more.

Talk about a gratuitous comment —-> R168

The problem is - once these places are gone - what do you replace them with? You can't.

Property is too expensive everywhere and it takes 50-80 years to create a town and atmosphere like this.

God dammit - GAYS create these fabulous vibes and locations and then the people who HATE US want to move in and leech off of the fun and vibes we create.

Same with gay urban areas and Pride parades.

R157 These types of things happen everywhere, all over the world, every day.

r172, my sense is that Ptown is as gay (or gayer) than it's ever been. It's just for gays with more money now.

R173 the year round population here is teeny tiny. I’ve lived in many big cities and never had 5 members of my social circle die suddenly within a year, three violently. Have you?

[R175] sounds like jessica fletcher better don a speedo and plan a road trip!

R172: There are many resorts that have gone through cycles of success, decline and then success, again. Sometimes it's the same clientele, sometimes it changes more than just generationally. Many regional resort towns declined in the 50s and 60s but many came back from the 80s onward---people took the opportunity to go further afield with more affordable air travel and interstates. Rehoboth is a good example. Saugatuck is another. They're nothing like Ptown but they don't have to be. There are some Florida panhandle towns that once were popular with artists and after a spell, became popular again in the 90s onward and draw a lot of gay visitors.

I've done a lot of international travel but couldn't be bothered to go to Spain or to some cliche resort in Mexico, so I'm happy to explore other places in the US.

R177 - I don't know what you're talking about. Saugatuck is too expensive as well. And it outlives its charms in less than 48 hours - there's really not much to do there, at all.

Outside of your examples from the 80s - 40 years ago - what new towns / getaways are being revived in this decade? I can't think of any. Maybe Missouri Ozarks - but no thanks.

[R157] Wow, that story about the Ukranian boytoy is scary! I have friends in Provincetown and haven't heard anything about it. Do you have any more info?

any pics of the Ukrainian boytoy?

Provincetown summed up in one pic.

R157 sounds like Ryan Murphy working on some new material, typing from his Ptown Widow's Walk.

"Maybe Missouri Ozarks -."

If you want to be around drunken MAGAts at their most obnoxious and most volatile, the Lake of the Ozarks in Missouri is the place you want to be, especially on a hot summer weekend.

Boats + liquor + MAGAts = hell on earth.

R183 - I don't disagree - I'm just saying - what other areas are making a come-back / resurgence the last 10-15 years that weren't already one time popular or already on the upswing?

I can't think of any.

Gay destinations tend to be at the Land's End or the middle of nowhere in a desert somewhere - just so we can be left alone to enjoy ourselves - Ptown, Key West, Palm Springs. Scan the map and find out the outermost part of any territory, that is probably where you'll find the gays.

R181 and others:

I've been to Ptown at least two dozen times. I've been to the Boat Slip Tea Dance exactly once.

No one forces you to go clubbing and drinking. No one will force you to P&P. Ptown is what you make it. If you want to make it about P&P, drag queens and racking up milky loads at the Dick Dock, Ptown will accommodate you. If you want to avoid all that shit and relax and unwind, it's quite easy to do as well and no one will ever criticize you for it.

You're missing out r186. I am not a big partier either, but nothing beats the last 20 minutes of the Boat Slip Tea Dance drunk on planter's punch.

I can buy meth in Boston so much cheaper!

My husband and I, who have only been to Ptown in the Summer, actually went to Halloween there one year. It was actually a lot of fun. It was definitely more subdued and brought out more the artistic creative types Ptown was more known for. I made up our costumes, it was the first and only time we've ever dressed up togetgher. We had matching track suits, new balance and fannypacks, with leather harnesses on and ball gags, and chokers. We were "Sex Tourists." The town shuts down that weekend after Halloween with the restaurants using their supplies down. We literally got served the last pancakes of the season at Cafe Heaven.

r148 how many people would you be sharing a room with, or are you taking the cost of air out of your max spending limit of 2k? If it's only one roomie and you include the air in your budget, that leaves $400 for a week of food, drinks, entertainment and transportation. Are we saying that is realistic?

Only if you aren’t intelligent enough to find fare ls at less than $1600.

R162 you can learn who it is if you ask around in Provincetown a bit. It didn’t make the news because it was declared a suicide.

With zero investigation.

Despite the fact that slicing your own throat open with a hunting knife is virtually unheard of outside of people suffering from extreme psychosis which this young man was not.

But problems like this tend to go away when you’re the Scion of a household name type of fortune

You can give a last name —it’s ok. Really.

[quote] and racking up milky loads at the Dick Dock

I resemble that remark!

r172 the problem is that P-Town needs another nice good sized hotel. There is just no where to stay with based on the demand unless you want to shell out loads of money.

Piratejenny1 - what was the original question/story? I had that poster blocked, but I’m curious about what you’re referring to.

r196 Ha! I was gonna do you a solid and cut and paste since I happened to be on the site but it seems I have the same person blocked over their tennis commentary. ;)

Cruise ships stop in Provincetown?

Ptown is a magical place. So sad that what started out as a refuge for gays has now become out of reach for so many.

I go every year but this will likely be the last. I’ve been lucky because a lady always rents me a room in her guesthouse and has kept the price low over the last 5 years. Friends says trying to find anything now is crazy expensive—and has been mentioned on this thread—flying to gay areas in Europe over the same time is way cheaper.

No. Cruise ships do not stop in Provincetown.

Ahem.

Thanks, R201. I once took a cruise that stopped in P-Town. R200, why did you post that without bothering to check it out in about 15 seconds through Googling?

R200 is the person at parties who tells you they know for certain you are wrong, when you’re the subject matter expert lol.

The cruise ships in R201’s link are not those that overwhelm towns and cities with thousands of daily visitors. And if they even stop in Provincetown, I’ve never seen them in the five summers I’ve lived full-time here

Yes, there are daily ferries from Boston that bring a few hundred day trippers but nothing large and overwhelming.

Dude, you said cruise ships don’t stop in Provincetown. Maybe stop digging?

R204, I was on a very large Norwegian Cruise Lines ship that stopped in Provincetown on the way to Halifax as part of one of those cruises that used to be run by Rosie O'Donnell and her then partner. Because the water in the bay there is so shallow, the ship had to anchor out past the breakwater, and passengers were transported to the dock by tender. I don't know how often ships of that size stop in P-Town, but I can tell you that it has happened at least once, so I assume a lot more than once.

Also, R204, I don't know why you even brought up the ferries, because obviously that's a completely different subject.

R204 I too live there and the cruise ships are a well known thing. These was just one docked on Macmillan pier last week.

FUN FACT: The Pilgrims first landed in present-day Provincetown, but they found it insufficient (limited farmland, scarce fresh water) and moved on after about a month, eventually settling in what would become Plymouth, but not before first drawing up and signing the Mayflower Compact.

In fact, the whole New England settlement was a fluke, because they were initially aiming for Jamestown, Virginia, and were blown off-course.

Little known fact: PnP was originally Pilgrim n Play.

Those pilgrims sure loved the Dick Dock.

We stopped there on a Seabourn cruise.

Not sure why anyone would think big ships didn’t call there. It used to be a Navy base.

An old cruise ship docked all summer in Ptown as a giant motel could relieve some of the price pressure and let average young gays with average salaries go up and enjoy the town. It would probably be a very hot fuck fest, too.

[quote]FUN FACT: The Pilgrims first landed in present-day Provincetown, but they ... moved on after about a month

So, cruise ships have a long and rich history in Provincetown.

And it would supply the flabby rich fucks who can now enjoy the town the chance to oogle some genuine eye candy.

One of the attractions of a classic seaside GAY resort is a gorgeous parade of young men. Europe still has Sitges and the rather skanky Canaries for average young men to enjoy themselves and get laid. Ibiza is really quite pricy now.

First of all, R213, the word is ogle. But also, why would a docked cruise ship used as a hotel necessarily cause any significant increase of the amount of "eye candy" in the town? If cute young twinks can't afford to stay there now, they probably couldn't afford to stay on a docked cruise ship. Anyway, people who want to see eye candy in P-Town should go during circuit party week.

r214 I can smell your cunt.

are you being obtuse. I just gave a thought experiment. however. P-Town has an extremely limited number of hotel, inn, and short-term rental rooms—some estimates put it around 1,500–2,000 rooms total, many at luxury prices. Adding 1,000 rooms on a docked cruise ship in July and August increases capacity by ~50%, which is huge in such a tight, high-demand market.

High-end B&Bs and boutique hotels would be affected most. If the ship offers mid-tier or upscale rooms, they’d directly compete with $500–$1,200/night stays. Owners would likely have to offer perks or reduce prices.

Short-term rental hosts (Airbnb/VRBO) might drop rates. Especially those charging top dollar for small, poorly maintained units would lose out if tourists have the option of cruise-ship lodging with amenities.

Provincetown in July and August is prohibitively expensive for many younger or working-class gay men. A typical 3-night stay with lodging, food, and travel can run $2,000–$3,000—putting it out of reach for most outside the affluent urban elite.

A cruise ship’s pricing could undercut that: If HALF the rooms on the ship are priced between $150–$250/night, suddenly a long weekend in P-Town becomes $450–$750 for lodging, even cheaper if shared. That’s Sitges/Torremolinos money, not Fire Island/P-Town money.

PTown has turned in a sort of St. Tropez - old and rich.

[quote]High-end B&Bs and boutique hotels would be affected most. If the ship offers mid-tier or upscale rooms, they’d directly compete with $500–$1,200/night stays. Owners would likely have to offer perks or reduce prices. Short-term rental hosts (Airbnb/VRBO) might drop rates. Especially those charging top dollar for small, poorly maintained units would lose out if tourists have the option of cruise-ship lodging with amenities.

Oh, right -- just the way that the TREMENDOUS increase in the number of hotel rooms in Manhattan over the past decades have significantly decreased room costs. If you really believe what you wrote, I would say you're the one who's obtuse, or maybe naive is the better word. Anyway, it's an academic argument, because I very much doubt any kind of large cruise ship will ever be allowed to dock permanently in P-Town for use as a hotel.

P.S. As I have done many times in the past, I'll be staying in P-Town for a week in August at a bed and breakfast for just over $250 per night, including taxes and other fees.

The thought experiment, R216, won’t fly. Ships need power onboard, supplied either from shore (as at cruise terminals) or from the engines. Engines pollute. They won’t be polluting a national seashore and there are no underwater extension cords that could handle the load. A ship anchored offshore would still need the holding tanks emptied, fresh water, fuel, and provisions. Some of that could be supplied by tenders if done at anchor but most of it needs to be done at a dock.

The closest pier that could handle a cruise ship is in Boston. That means it needs a crew to navigate, not just make up the beds, and not just a crew but an American crew as it would sail from one US port to another. Which means the Coast Guard, Homeland Security, the USPHS and the Mass Depts of Environmental Protection and Public Health get involved for starters.

After all that remember that cruise ships need passengers onboard spending money to make money. One’s fare isn’t all the cruise line gets. If all the passengers are onshore sunning themselves by day and slutting themselves by night, they’re not gambling in the casino or buying drinks and trinkets and God forbid, “art” onboard. Also, security nowadays means no guests and certainly no overnight guests. Passengers only.

I dunno: buy some land and open a campground? It won’t be a cruise ship that brings the prices down.

yes it was just a thought experiment. sheesh. I'm sure most of PTown is fine with its current wealthy vibe but it's not true to its roots as a genuinely bohemian enclave.

r217 I get your point but Manhattan isn't a fair comparison given the number of business visitors

Thanks for that dose of reality, R218.

R220, what does the number of business visitors as opposed to tourists have to do with it? THEORETICALLY, if the number of hotel rooms increases vastly over a relatively short period of time, as it has, one should expect at least some degree of a drop in room prices, regardless of who's staying in those rooms and for what purpose. But, of course, that has NOT happened.

[quote] what does the number of business visitors as opposed to tourists have to do with it?

Because business travel to New York specifically, is often a necessity and its cost is factored in to the price of doing business. If hoteliers in New York were solely reliant on the tourist trade their room rates would come down.

I get that, R223. But with thousands of new hotels being added to Manhattan over the past decades, and continuing to be added, shouldn't there STILL theoretically be a drop in room rates, simply due to the laws of supply and demand? Maybe, POSSIBLY there will be a drop in Manhattan and elsewhere because so many people from other countries hate Trump (and by extension the U.S.), and they just don't want to come here right now. Some people have already predicted that this will happen in P-Town due to fewer visitors from Canada, and in fact, some people seem to think it has already started, but I honestly don't know.

Friends that own a condo in Provincetown that they use in the off-season and rent out in season, told me yesterday that their bookings for the summer are already 50% less. They generally have the entire season booked solid by now.

I should ask him if they have adjusted their prices to compensate, and what they know of the nationalities involved.

Just anecdata, I know, but I've heard similar from other friends in town.

[quote]anecdata

Brave new world, that has such words in it!

anecdata [ an-ik-dey-tuh, -dat-uh, -dah-tuh ]

noun

[italic]Anecdotal evidence; information or evidence based on reports of individual cases rather than systematic research or analysis.[/italic]

Ah the rarely seen plural.

I like this "anecdata": it's in the best tradition of portmanteaux and the like.

sounds like the side room in a german progressive dance club

R226 substitute 4th grade English teacher 1963 shows his chops. Impressive.

TIL about anecdata.

Anecdata is so much better than anecdotal. Can we get a "The More You Know" rainbow for this?

You should Google oogle.

Can we provide verificatia of anacdata?

way too expensive and not enough places to stay

Where are all the hot bicycle men from, that take you to your accommodation late at night?

Bulgaria mostly

"AnecdatIA" on Datalounge!

It's changed, but I still love it. This summer may be our last because the prices are getting ridiculous. When it was more affordable, there was a greater, warmer sense of gay energy and spirit. Now you can feel the subtle undertow of classism everywhere. I also agree that the loss of the Broadway performers at the Art House is a huge loss. All the RuPaul's drag race stars hold no interest for me. I really miss some of those performers. Who can forget Patti LuPone running up and down the aisle doing "Trouble" from Music Man. Yes, Seth is a ridiculous narcissist, but there were some great nights in that place. The city should build a theater to support that.

[quote]hordes of Canadians normally vacation “down” on the Cape, plus among us Americans there’s a general slight pulling back from discretionary spending.

That aged like milk.

I heard the same thing about Puerto Vallarta... the gays are tiring of it, a feeling powered by the high cost of it nowadays. We always move on.

I remember sleeping with Tom Chase, Chip Arndt from the Amazing Race, and an anchor from the CBC in Ptown over the years. Good times!

This was one of the sluts I came upon last summer in P'town. A very amenable fuck, I gotta say.

[quote]yes it was just a thought experiment. sheesh. I'm sure most of PTown is fine with its current wealthy vibe but it's not true to its roots as a genuinely bohemian enclave.

There are no more bohemian enclaves in the US. All gone.

R239

Eventually, Rudetsky might have taken down The Art House all by himself. What an insufferable twat. A lot of natives - because we had seen so many shows that he took over and ruined - were avoiding any shows in which he was "interviewing."

If you'd seen an artist sans, and then with Rudetsky, you learned you were going to The Rudetsky Show and there was no point in going to see the artist any more. Was a shame. He ruined so many performances.

I guess unknowing tourists were still going. Unless they knew of Rudetsky and his history with The Art House.

(Many friends were among the "back-up" singers for Lupone's "Trouble." They said she was a sweetheart, which is different than her DL reputation.)

R240 So Ptown is straight now?

[quote]We always move on.

Where have we moved on to? What's the new US destination? It's no longer Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Palm Springs....

r100 ptown restaurant scene is lacking compared to what? name the resort town that has better, you pretentious twat.

[Quote] So Ptown is straight now?

Honestly, it does seem to be getting more and more straight

[Quote] ptown restaurant scene is lacking compared to what? name the resort town that has better, you pretentious twat.

Yes, in most resort towns, the food is bad but it’s rather shocking that a resort town populated with gays would have such terrible food

Who goes to P-Town for the food?

I go to P-Town for the dick and the fabulous milky loads.

I guess we have to finally head over to Rochester, NY, though the garbage plates might be a challenge to get through.

I personally love Rochester. I’d love for it to become a gay Mecca

Yes, one would think that the restaurant scene in a town full of gays would be better, but it's a town geared towards tourists, not foodies. Friends that owned a place and tried to elevate the scene gave up because the people that came in to eat were more interested in burgers, fish fries, and lobster rolls. Nothing wrong with that at all, so they went back to serving what the public wanted.

And prices are ridiculous. Who the hell wants to spend $50 on a steak entree? (I'm not questioning all the costs involved in getting that steak to your table. That's another thread.) There’s something to be said for the “out on the town restaurant experience on vacation”, but you can also go around the block to Stop and Shop, buy a $15 rib eye, and go home and grill it at your vacation rental.

Having said all that, for a special occasion, Ceraldi’s is excellent but VERY pricey. Michael Ceraldi used to have “Dalla Cucina” on Commercial Street in the spot that “404” and Chesters” was years ago. It was one of the most authentic Italian Restaurants ever. Just superb. He closed it down and I don’t have inside info as to why (Prices? Reservations? Money?) and went on to open a smaller place in Wellfleet. I suppose the building rental cost, at least, is lower in Wellfleet.

That’s a huge problem in Provincetown; building rental costs. All part of the real estate circus, here. It’s hard to open a store or restaurant and make any money. Not impossible, as some have been successful, but difficult.

In that building’s (404 Commercial) latest incarnation we got “Strangers & Saints”, where the food was never good enough to put up with the arrogance and attitude of the owners. It was a place for A-Listers, and A-List wannabes. It’s gone now.

The Mews has always been a stalwart but about three years ago - maybe four - the “original” chef left and the menu and food went down hill fast. Then Ron, the owner, decided to expand the restaurant and had to close down for the duration. In the meantime he opened a pop up in an empty restaurant down the block (it’s been too many different restaurants over the years to bother listing) and midway through, got a new chef. Outstanding, and The Mews seems to have recovered its reputation. Now, his original building isn’t yet finished and he had to close down the pop up, so they’re in limbo.

Ross’s Grill isn’t bad and has a great location on the water.

Front Street has a great reputation and I have no idea why. It’s as pedestrian as any other restaurant that’s geared towards tourists. When your menu is that extensive, that many pages, that many options, you can’t expect any one particular dish to be that good.

Other restaurants come and go and the older restaurants that have been visitor favorites have changed owners and the quality changes up and down often.

Keep to your favorites. Again, it’s a town for fun and the beach and the bars and the drag queens. Not for foodies.

And, yes, the town is getting “straighter”. No doubt about it. Assimilation has its drawbacks.

This is all just personal opinion. YMMV.

AH. I forgot "Victor's". Worth a visit now that the drama has lessened. Small plates. Good food.

Is Joon still there for dinner and Cafe Heaven still there from breakfast?

The Cape and P-Town in an MGM Traveltalk, 1942.

R255

Yes, and Yes.

But where have the gays moved on to? Inquiring minds want to know.

The Red Inn (or called something like that, near the West Side) is supposed to have good food but I’ve never tried it

The Red Inn is a beautiful setting on the water, but relies on it's reputation, and doesn't try very hard. It's very expensive for mediocre food. Service can be chilly, both food and drinks.

If a restaurant can be impressed by itself, that's The Red Inn.

Worth a visit anyway, if for nothing other than the ambiance.

OVAH!

In the olde days (the 1990s) we'd stay every summer at the delightfully primitive Capt. Jack's Wharf and dine at nearby Gallerani's (sp?). Heaven!

The Red Inn is one of the very worst restaurants I've ever been to, and I love to eat out. It wasn't the food, although I don't remember it, but the disorganization and dreadful service.

Ciro & Sal's for Italian

Liz’s Cafe has a great brunch.

Cafe Heaven is good too.

The worst nearly every time is Bubala’s. My friends always meet there when we go for our annual week to Ptown.

Only once was the food ok. Every other time, it’s just terrible

I used to love Lorraine’s, but after moving around all over town for years, I heard it finally closed. I went to PTown just about every summer from 1998-2016. 2017 for our 20th we traveled to Europe and never looked back. We live in Europe now. The cost of living is so much less for amazing food here, I don’t think I could bring myself to pay those prices there for middling meals.

Before it became Bubala's, there was another restaurant there. IIRC, it was the Seaview Inn. Good basic comfort food with an emphasis on seafood, moderate prices. There was another basic but good restaurant on Bradford Street, cannot even remember it's name, located where Mussell Beach is not located. Again, basic food, decent prices. And right down Bradford Street was Carreiro’s Tip for Tops’n Restaurant, always crowded for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Why can't these types of places survive in today's Ptown?

Is this place still open?

R269

Yes. The Canteen.

I ate there, and of course, at the A house

R268, you must be going back over 30 years ago because Bubala's has been there forever it seems now. Mussell Beach too.

I liked the A House

In the mid 90s at the Post Office Café I had a lobster Caesar salad with the best croutons I've ever eaten. Doesn't seem to be on the menu anymore.

You remember croutons from 30 years ago? Those must have been some amazing croutons.

Croutons are never amazing

Croutons? You would remember croutons and not the cock you sucked before lunch?

[Quote] ptown restaurant scene is lacking compared to what? name the resort town that has better, you pretentious twat.

Key West, Aspen, Honolulu, Asbury Park

[Quote] That joke would have been funny 25 years ago or so, but how gay is Chelsea anymore?

It's not gay anymore and hasn't been a gay hotspot for over a decade. Weed shops, the homeless, the homely, kids and straights proliferate

Canteens food is so heavy I can’t eat there more than once a season. Good if you wake up with a bad hangover craving something greasy that will put you right back to sleep

Best lobster rolls from days maker which is just down route 6a in truro

Truro is also where all the locals get the best breakfast sandwiches at salty market

In town best breakfast sandwiches are at far lands in the winter , pop and Dutch in the summer

Best burgers are from the mean burger stand in the aquarium mall food court across from spiritus

This might be heresy to say but twisted has better pizza than spiritus and is open jut as late

For food try sals or ciro and sals. The pollo ala vodka there is my favorite

If you want a cheaper lunch there is market in the bike shop on Brad or on the way to the beach that sells made to ord sandwiches or under 10 dollars

Vorelli restaurant on commercial is one of those places locals go to for the first time after living there 10 years saying “how did I not know about this place” it’s not fancy but it has intimate booths and a dirt cheap lunch menu try the Boursin burger with a side of potato salad

Nothing beats lizes for lunch

Rosie’s for Mexican.

Grab and go if you need something healthy and Les face it after a week of New England comfort food, you probably do

R248 Why do you say this?

Something tells me that R280's post would be useful if it had punctuation and capitalization.

R282 . I typed it fast while in line at Cumberland farms, cunt. if you’re SO massive a cunt that you can’t accept good informed advice when it contains typos you don’t deserve the benefits you might enjoy by taking my suggestions.

Enjoy your substandard but grammatically flawless lobster rolls

That must have been one hell of a long line at Cumberland Farms, R283.

Is that Portuguese bakery with the fried dough still there? I wanted the owner in me quite deeply.

It actually was, r284

Yes r285 and yes Chuck is a stud

Yes it’s expensive but so are all resort locations- especially those in high demand. More rich people plus supply and demand. But it’s still beautiful (National Seashore is spectacular, houses beautifully maintained- lots of entertainment and places to eat- not all are expensive.) There are many lovely places to vacation in the Northeast, but not necessarily with large crowds of gay young men. Almost all the beautiful resort settings world wide have become available to only those who can afford them.

OVAH!

R244, I strongly disagree with your bitchy comments about Seth Rudetsky. Yes, when he does a show with, for example, Audra McDonald or Patti LuPone, it's going to be a different kind of show than when they appear on their own in concert. The Seth shows have a lot more Q&A with the stars, but some of us LOVE that -- and every show of his that I've seen has also included lots of singing by the stars as well.

You bitches complaining about the quality of the food in P-Town are so fucking pretentious. There are lots of excellent restaurants there -- including the Lobster Pot, which is decidedly NOT the kind of tourist trap one might assume. Many of the great places have been mentioned above, but I don't think anyone has yet mentioned Fanizzi's, which I have loved for years.

Is Lobster Pot where the menu probably hasn't changed since the 1960s? I don't mean that in a bad way; but, I've never seen "Clams Casino" anywhere else.

We stay down in Wellfleet at the end of Lecount Hollow Rd. for a week every year and go into PTown once or twice to eat at the Lobster Pot and stroll along Commercial Street. Wellfleet's only 15 mins from PTown and you fall asleep at night listening to the waves crashing on the beach. Heaven.

Is Lobster Pot where the menu probably hasn't changed since the 1960s? I don't mean that in a bad way; but, I've never seen "Clams Casino" anywhere else.

Really? Clams Casino is a dish I've seen offered in quite a few restaurants in New York and elsewhere over the years.

Yes, right next to the beef Wellington, Waldorf salad and baked Alaska r294? You must only frequent carpeted, velvet curtain fancy establishments with negro dishwashers.

Do you ask for the Angie Dickinson in Palms Springs too?

R13 is Hyacinth Bucket.

A local told me when their high school teams play out-of-town, the students are asked if they're gay.

R297 there is no Provincetown high school. Not enough students, they are bussed out to a district high school in Naussett I believe

Yes, R298, I believe that started several years ago. There is still an elementary school in P-Town, but not a high school. Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but whatever.

There are too few students in most of the Cape for multiple high schools.

There are just 1 or 2

But why are there enough students for an elementary school in P-Town, but not for a high school there? Do all or many of the kids' families move away when they graduate elementary school, for some reason?

That’s a pretty normal model in many parts of the US.

For example, I live in a rural area. We have our own elementary school then there is a regional high school that draws from four towns. That allows for critical mass necessary for sports teams and to offer a range of courses.

I should add that his model is becoming increasingly common as birth rates have declined.

In fact, a neighboring town that has long had their own high school closed it last June and is now funneling their students to the regional high school.

You can imagine how enrollment in Provincetown schools has declined as it’s rarer for families to be able to afford to live there.

[quote]You can imagine how enrollment in Provincetown schools has declined as it’s rarer for families to be able to afford to live there.

And not only that, I'm sure there are lots of people who have no interest whatsoever in living there year round, whether or not they have children.

Elementary schools tend to be smaller. A few elementary schools will send their kids to one, larger high school

It’s too desolate in the winter for many families to stay in Cape Cod year round.

Yes, R306, that's what I meant.

My first trip to Ptown was in 1982.

There were still plenty of people who lived there year-round. There were plenty of fishermen's families, many Portuguese, and many of the motels/guest houses and restaurants were family owned, sometime for generations. The Bradford House on Bradford Street was owned by the Downey family, and the Best Western Chateau on the outskirts of town was owned by the Gordon family.

Now, that's all changed, and not for the better. Way too much gentrification and economic stratification. Beware: middle class, keep out!!!!!

The fact that this thread evolved into a conversation about the school system is all the proof one needs to verify OP's title.

Perhaps a live cam at the Dick Dock would be more to your prurient liking, R309.

The lack of families - and thus children - has nothing to do with the off-season. It's because there's no housing that is affordable for families. Even if they manage to find jobs, there's no place to live.

Most have to move up Cape - and some have to move OFF the Cape - to find affordable housing, and commute to their jobs in Provincetown.

If you live there year-round, the best season is the off-season, by the way. Three and four jobs in-season just to survive is no fun. And those year-round residents that don't have to work enjoy the relative solitude; there's plenty to do, but the crowds are gone.

The full-time-resident (that is, year-round) population of Provincetown is about 3,700 people vs. up to 60,000 people in the summer, more than a few of whom are gay and/or childless. There’re just not enough kids.

It's always funny when "locals" complain that seasonal people ruin their tourist towns because they buy up everything and real estate becomes progressively more expensive, yet it's the locals who SELL their properties for big bucks who are very much a process of that gentrification process.

Same thing in poor, urban neighborhoods that get gentrified. No one forced Momma and Daddy to sell their bungalow that's been in the family for 60 years since Grandad bought it for $10k, to that rich gay couple eager to remodel it after dropping $500k for it.

R313 many times it's because the property taxes have become unaffordable

It’s not simply selling homes, but the use of second homes as passive income streams via air b and b that has eviscerated Provincetown’s culture

If you are a landlord with a one bedroom apartment , you could rent it on a one year lease for 2000 a month, or you could rent it for 2-4k a WeEK from may-October.

Of course every property owner chooses the second option and as a result no renters can find year round or summer housing.

Since all workers are renters, they would need to commute here to work during the day and then drive back up cape at night

No one in their right mind wants to work in Provincetown for the summer if they are t going to also live there, because the whole point of working in ptown is so that you can LIVE there. The work in Provincetown Sucks-peole are rude and demanding and don’t tip very well.

The killer was air b and b. The town should have acted sooner to limit the number of liscences for short term rentals in the town.