How extreme car dependency is driving Americans to unhappiness:

That's not really brand-new information, is it? Everybody in any worldwide metro area knows this for decades. Writing about the solution that works - now that would be nice. Besides needing their car, people are also adverse to change. So any effort setting up a new system that decreases the dependency on cars is stifled by people affection for car. In reality people don't hate the car, they hate the traffic. So getting people out of their car is a huge problem.

The weather was a little dicey this morning, so I decided to take the bus to work. For me, it is quite literally door-to-door service. It picks up about a half block away from my door and drops off maybe three steps away from my work. It takes ten minutes max. Every time I take it (inclement weather or my car is getting serviced,) I think "Why don't I do this every day? It could save me a ton of money and stress."

Then I look to see how much a monthly pass is . $86. Then I look at the schedule. Today, I'll have to wait around an extra half hour at work to get home.

Right now, I pay $12 a month to park at my company's garage about three blocks from my office. (It does annoy me that they own the space, but I still have to pay) During nice weather, I do like the morning walk. I also like leaving work when I feel like it for a doctor's appointment or whatever.

I'm really torn.

It's the only way U.S. Americans can get away from their living situations- just drive around and around. That's why they freak when gas prices climb.

I'm trying to think of something really good about America today.

Seriously. Coming up with things like the scenery and the lucky geopolitical situation. And that's about it.

What do you think is truly good about our country?

Someone is ALWAYS over analyzing and bitching. Just live.

America is really good at defining what's cool, telling compelling stories, and giving people a sense of possibility so they try things. There's also less control over which spaces belong to which people, who's qualified to give an opinion and who isn't, and general access to things. They can also be damned good at teamwork once they finally agree on something.

R4 = typical self-loathing liberal.

And you wonder why Democrats are unpopular.

I like this quote from the studies' author.

[quote] “The study doesn’t call for people to completely stop using cars but the solution could be in finding a balance. For many people driving isn’t a choice, so diversifying choices is important.”

Why I root for transit options. In the name of getting a few cars out of the traffic flow too.

My city made the mistake of turning all the old railroad track lines to walking trails and what they should have done is turn them into a subway line with walking trails on top.

Suburban sprawl is why we’re so heavily dependent on personal vehicles for transportation.

If you want to see how suborn sprawl has ruined a city look to Philadelphia.

I watched [italic]Who Framed Roger Rabbit[/italic]. I know what those nasty car companies did to US urban planning.

I love driving.

I don't live in a city. You cannot take a day trip to a nearby city or the ocean or hiking trails in all seasons on fucking public transportation, which I loathe, by the way. If you're in a city, fine. Otherwise no one wants to wait for 30 minutes to an hour for a bus or walk 30 minutes to a train, to go somewhere. I love getaways on the weekend--day trips. I need to get away from the town where I both work and live. My car represents freedom.

And even if I want to visit the cemetery to tend to some flowers on my parents' grave, I need a car. There's no other way to get there, and I need to carry the tools in my car. I'm not going to take the shuttle that only leaves at certain hours of the morning to the fucking supermarket. I can go any time in my car.

The car shit is a big reason why I live in Europe now. A car payment and gas money is like lighting money on fire in places where the public transport is decent. I rent and taxi as needed, and it works out just fine.

R13, I want to say, the problems are not caused by people like you. Small towns and rural areas are probably the prime examples of drivers who need and continue to need their cars. I see the problem more being a metro problem, big cities, their residents who all drive, and commuters. They are the problems and for those we need solutions.

I think the most exciting idea I have heard lately is the 15-minute city. It's a city planning concept that tries to build everything desirable within 15-minute walking reach for a resident. It would mean that the residence, the workplace and the "third place" in peoples' life can be walked to within 15 minutes. It takes a lot of money to rebuild suburban neighborhoods to that concept. It's likely a generational effort. But I could see big payoff for that concept.

R15 Thanks (I'm R13). As for the 15-minute city--while practical, I happen to see a lot of older, inform people where I work and I don't think some of them could walk 15 minutes anywhere. They're dependent on cars (some people have lung, heart, or back issues, but it doesn't make them unfit to drive). They all can't carry weight, either. They or a relative being a driver is a great convenience to them.

It's an interesting idea. It might be confining, though, for some people to live 15 minutes away from everything. How do you regularly get away and see new things? But on the other hand, it can have advantages.

We purposely chose to live in a liberal urban environment, close to public transportation and near a great mix of retail, restaurants, grocers, recreation, water, and services within 2 miles. My husband and I will walk up to those 2 miles (25 minutes) to go to dinner or shop and are amazed at our friends who will drive 3 blocks to go to McDonalds, etc. Yes, it takes longer but we are much happier only using the car once a week or less. We're in better health. And we look years younger than our age (DL catnip). The car is 5 years old and has only 25K miles on it, mostly road trips. Our biggest car expense is insurance and annual maintenance.

It never ceases to amaze me how much reportage there is about America in the British press.

You’ve even got people like Louis Theroux doing most of their reportage here, always about weirdos, extremists or poverty. The British public seems to eat it up.

I hate driving. Always have, though I grew up associating it with free movement and even sexual freedom as a teenager, so it had its plusses. But driving was never the pleasure for me that it is for so many Americans, and over the decades I came to like it less and less. I don't have the American "road trip!!" bug and would always rather fly or take a train. I've lived in places in the U.S. where a car was absolutely necessary - no taxis, no buses, no trains anywhere near -- and I adapted but it brought no pleasure. More often I lived in the center of large cities and loved not having a car.

Moving to Europe I haven't had a car or driven in 7 years and not once have I missed it. But to look at various American Expat discussion groups, it's a different story. So many people planning to.immigrate are stupidly dead set on bringing an oversized car or huge truck to the pre-Medieval streets. Nevermind the very considerable costs, it's clearly some part of their identity that they won't compromise, regardless of the coats and headaches and lack of need. It's something they won't shed (I wonder how many if these same people last more than a year or two, if they are the ones for whom the US is always "home" no matter how distant. The idea of needing a car is simply a foreign concept for someone who lives and works in a big city, except a good number of Americans who think it's all worth it for trip to Costco or the idea of a road trip they never seem to take.

I haven't driven a vehicle in over 20 years.

[quote]You’ve even got people like Louis Theroux doing most of their reportage here, always about weirdos, extremists or poverty. The British public seems to eat it up.

The Americans eat it up, too. Maybe not on a scale that impresses Americans, but enough to make a smaller media market seem larger

I don't drive. Never have.

I have always lived in cities and most of my adult life in Europe, so I got along fine. I would walk everywhere.

But now that I'm back in the States for a while, I walk a mile and a half to the supermarket or to a cafe for coffee every morning. 2.5 miles to get into town. I'm fine with it. People think I'm crazy.

Mass transit is a communist plot.

Real Americans don't take mass transit.

Haven’t owned a car in over twenty years, before then I only used it once in a while. I hate car oriented existences.

I’m inheriting property in Arizona and I’m planning on selling it all sight-unseen when the time comes

R23, well, good for you as dying by gun fire and by auto accident are two of the most common forms of death in the US

[quote]Dee Plorable. Nothing comes between me and my vehicles,, except guns

As if the elite lefties are ever going to give up their cars. And walk. And take public transportation.

[quote] My car represents freedom.

Cars really are freedom coded in America. I get it. I love a day trip or exploring or going down to the beach or something. Very fun. But in my city? Nothing feel less like freedom between 3pm-7pm than traffic!

Also, I'd hate a long commute and it would take the pleasure out of it. After many years in a walking city, I'm like, please tell me y'all get out of these metal tins once in a while. It's just not conducive to community and what people will tell you they enjoy about cities if you ask them.

Nothing says freedom like the "fuck you" money I have from savings on gas, car payments, insurance, and repairs/maintenance.

Wow R7, you really are a piece of work, particularly after living through this election in which MAGAts bitched about literally [italic]everything.[/italic] Despite the fact that the economy is booming in every quantifiable measure, you'd think we were in the midst of a depression; in surveys leading up to the election, half the electorate claimed unemployment has never been higher when in reality it has never been lower, that Biden and the Democrats brought this country — and frankly, the world — out of a once-in-a-century pandemic to an American resurgence in which our economy was the tent pole holding up the planetary economy, and MAGAts bitched about inflation yet refuse to acknowledge that half of inflation came from corporate profit taking; and despite the Democrats' candidate offering concrete policy solutions to complex problems arising out of our out-of-control oligarchy, they chose the criminal con man who waved his arms and promised magical solutions only to say mere days after the election that the problems are harder to solve than he imagined, so we can all just shut up about it now.

And then consider what President Musk intends to do regarding immigration: mass deportation of the folks who make everyday life easier and better for everyone, which will result in higher prices bringing roaring inflation back, shortages of goods and services, and economic decline... except for those high-paying American jobs requiring advanced skills, where we're going to throw the borders open to anyone who can undercut a working American, all in the name of corporate profiteering. Or how about his plans to cut a third of the Federal budget, which will of course come from the social safety net, Social Security and Medicare, and not our out-of-control and ballooning military budget, half of which goes to corporate contractors who overcharge us by a factor of at least double for services that should be (and were) the responsibility of the government, like SpaceX and Starlink. Gosh, I forget who owns those...

It's been amusing (in a tragic way) when folks like you come along, or when Trump expresses his confusion over the fact that there have been no protests and no violence (aside from the terrorism of Trump supporters trying to assasinate Trump, Trump supporters plowing through crowds of people celebrating New Years, and Trump supporters blowing up Elmo's Cybertrucks in front of Trump hotels) since the election. What you and he don't realize is that liberals have concluded that the fight is over and we're just going to have to go through some very, very bad times before the American people wake up to the actual causes of our problems and society's ills. Personally, I'm hoping we avoid the extinction level event Elmo fantasizes as a cultural reset. And he should, too, because if it comes, it's ultimately going to be his head that rolls upon the drop of the guillotine after millions, perhaps tens of millions, of Americans suffer the same or worse.

I am going in 50 years old and I have never owned a car in my life. I’ve never needed to own one - I’ve rented when necessary. It’s a huge relief not to have to worry about everything that comes with car ownership.

Take your own advice, R31.

As Winston Churchill or Abba Eban (sources vary) once said, "You can depend on Americans to do the right thing. After they've tried everything else."

In urban areas, living with a vehicle can be difficult: expensive to insure, expensive and hard to park, easily damaged or stolen.

In rural areas, living without a vehicle can be impossible: there are few, if any, alternatives.

You libbies better keep your gay hands off my monster truck.

not having modern trains should be one of our most extreme national scandals

R31 Shut up, Jan.

R36 We know you think you'r a comic, but don't quit your day job.

And so? The wealthy libs drive their enormous SUVs, hands off their Range Rovers and GLS 450s.

Another issue with public transit is having to be around people no one wants to be around. So many trains in the Bay area were like traveling on lunatic asylum circus trains. Clean that shit up and maybe more people won't consider having to take public transit a "last resort" kinda thing.

[quote] the greatest country on earth

People sound so dumb when they say this. Just say you've never travelled.

Well you're not going to catch me totally slagging off the US. It's provided well for a lot of people, relative stability (historically), wealth, whatever you want to point to

America has a lot to its credit but school shootings and the healthcare problem make it impossible for this to be the best country. Sorry!

I really enjoy driving and have two cars, but yes there needs to be a balance. I cycle to/from work most of the time as well as the shops and the pool. I enjoy cycling as much as driving, more so when the weather is right for it. I use my car when the weather is really bad or when I have to go a really long distance (30 km plus) or carry a something heavy/ bulky

[quote] It's an interesting idea. It might be confining, though

R16, I don't take the 15 minutes very literally. It may be more minutes or fewer in reality. And I don't believe the concept tries to remove cars altogether. Everybody can keep their cars for whatever they need or want it.

But the concept provides an offering for not needing the car that much or that often anymore. A concept that tries to eradicate something by 100% is doomed to fail in my opinion. People just have too many different needs. Every concept to resolve big city problems can only reduce certain issues, not completely resolve.

I wouldn't say that the 15-minute-city concept resolves for everything. There is still the question on how to handle out of towner commuters, people who come to the city for shopping, entertainment or work. But it's a good start to make suburban areas more livable.

R15, for a time in the 1960s my family lived in one of those isolated suburban communities - sprawling ranch styles on large lots - nothing within walking distance. All made worse by a maze of cul-de-sacs, circles, crescents, anything but streets.

But nearby was a similar subdivision with public pedestrian walkways that were a direct bypass of the labyrinth of cul-de-sacs. Huge difference. Commercial areas weren't hidden at the end of a maze. On a map, these areas weren't all that far away as the crow flies. It feels close to your 15 minute plan.

Retrofitting the community in my first paragraph with common footpaths would make a huge difference.

[quote] My car represents freedom

My bike does the same, but better. No insurance or parking issues. Gas is well, free. Nothing more freedom than free

[quote] Another issue with public transit is having to be around people no one wants to be around

You poor, pitiable thing, you

May you never encounter a distracted driver while you're on your paper routes, R46.

[quote] I don't take the 15 minutes very literally.

I do. Everything but the train station (a bit farther) and the airport is a fifteen minute walk from my doorstep, including my doctor, dentist and ophthalmologist

[quote]You poor, pitiable thing, you

Typical.

Meanwhile:

r48, papers are oddly delivered by cars now, dipshit. and yeah, bicycle fatalities are high, but automotive ones are higher

Good luck out there, R51. Remember to wear your helmet.

A lot of unnecessary car travel (and greenhouse emissions) could be eliminated if employers allowed more people to work remotely.

"having to drive for more than 50% of the time for out-of-home activities is linked to a decrease in life satisfaction."

Sometimes you even have to tell people that your ride's not yellow. It gets monotonous AF especially when you have to do it for work in a traffic-heavy urban city.

I don't want to live 15 minutes away from any of those WEF twats. I'm good.

I agree that traffic makes people insane. Don’t even get me started.

I work in another state, so I need a vehicle to drive into the office. Taking the bus is a two hour commute EACH WAY. Ridiculous. By car, it’s a 20 minute drive under the right conditions.

When I was living in Europe, I loved being able to ride my bike nearly everywhere and hop on trains to take “road trips”. It was so much fun for me. Freedom to travel without worrying about where to park.

There’s nothing like that here. It’s all busses. We don’t even have a subway system. And the hills are very steep. It’s hilly without bike paths. Some areas don’t even have sidewalks.

So you’re sort of stuck needing a vehicle to get around which means traffic is a nightmare. I fucking hate it.

I enjoy car trips, but driving on a daily basis and owning a vehicle---I gave that up 18 years ago. You save a small fortune, get lots of incidental exercise and read on long commutes rather than getting frustrated in traffic. People like the perceived independence of driving, but if you could measure (and now you can) the actual experience of driving they would be surprised at how it affects them. I grew-up in a suburb that had access to public transit and we actually used it when I was a kid. I enjoyed having a car but I also enjoyed not having to use it for every little thing.

Living in NYC, for example, can be liberating because you don't have to deal with owning a car. But you do have to deal with the subway system.

And the people in it….

You have to be willing to assume the risk of accidentally killing somebody every time you drive a car. And you have to decide, whether or not it's worth it. I need to go to CVS and even if I kill a toddler on the way, it's absolutely worth it.

r15 That's a great concept. Unfortunately the reality is that the majority of Americans are extremely overweight and a 15 minute walk for a healthy person becomes a treacherous hour plus journey for the obese. For the sake of realism, included in my calculations are a probable emergency bathroom stop and a snack break at Dunkin' Donuts. Subtract 10 minutes if the box of munchkins is consumed concurrently with the explosive diarrhea.

R60 Oh come on CVS, isn’t worth taking out the Dalai Lama.

[quote]Living in NYC, for example, can be liberating because you don't have to deal with owning a car. But you do have to deal with the subway system.

When you take public transportation you have to deal with all the riffraff pieces of shit you would never normally get within a hundred paces of but thats life. The NYC subway is so convenient and gets you places fast, and it covers the whole city. It's the only place in the US where you can really live a normal life without a car. Even thought there are big public transportation cities in a few other American cities like SF and Chicago you still really need a car to get around.

And of course nearly everywhere else in the US is totally impossible or at the very least a nightmare to live in if you don't have a car. CT, for example, would be impossible.

You don't need a car in Chicago unless you live far inland and you wouldn't want to do that. You deal with plenty of riffraff on the road.

But the riffraff isn't in your personal space.

This is one of the reasons why, when I was stationed in W. Germany, I realized that America is decidedly [bold]not[/bold] the best country in the world.

You can get to damned near anywhere in Europe in a bus or on a train.

And don't give me that line of bullshit that America is so much bigger, yada yada yada. We had the national will to build the interstate highway system. If we could do that, we could lay tracks next to every one of those highways to start, and then start to lay them next to the smaller roads.

We need bullet trains like they have in Japan. But as long as the oil folks have so much power in this country, it's never going to happen (sigh).

R65: They're on your bumper or nearly smash into you. That's close enough.

R52, it’s the law. I do

[quote] Unfortunately the reality is that the majority of Americans are extremely overweight and a 15 minute walk for a healthy person becomes a treacherous hour plus journey for the obese

I’m officially obese and I walk more than a half hour every day. They sound like professional victims

[quote] But the riffraff isn't in your personal space.

You sound very very precious

R26, a lot of "elite lefties" in big cities do walk. Part of the reason why New York City has low obesity rates. People walk a lot.

R50, now do all the people killed in car accidents

Glad I live in the dc metro area. Decent subway and walkable in dc proper.

R39 probably drives a gas guzzler and voted for Trump "because gas prices are too high"

I always assumed people in NYC are thin because all the rats and fumes and general filth kill New Yorker's appetites, plus all the walking, and subway stairs.

Walking in New York is part of the fun of it all. You see so many fascinating people and characters.

R31, except MAGAs like you think America sucks and we need to vote GOP to make it better.

R74 I do not drive. Never have. But do go on.

R75, now do all the filth and opioids in the red states.

As if I go to red states, R79.

“The greatest country on earth”, R31? If it ever was, it certainly isn’t now.

You’ve never left your hallowed USA, have you?

Dumb article is dumb. Of course it’s from that rag The Guardian.

R73, and all the violence.

Don't fetishize Europe, both the UK and Germany are hot messes, the UK growth goes backwards, probably because Putin and oligarchs are not propping London up anymore, and Germany just isn't the same Germany anymore, they seemingly do random stupid things like let in millions of islamists immigrate, then go back to burning coal, WTF

"How extreme cat dependency is driving Americans to unhappiness"

I moved from NYC to a small southern town. I was determined to find a neighborhood where I could walk to Coffee shops, restaurants and bar. We have one car that my husband drives to work (40 min away) but it’s a pretty drive in the country. I work from home and walk for my daily needs. Since moving to the area they also opened a full service grocery store and more cool bars. We use the car for weekend roadtrips. So happy with this situation!

Which is what to do with American car dependency, R84?

Is it all the Europeans’ fault that most of you can’t walk 100 yards without a break?

R51 You ride a bike in rain, snow, and bitter cold? Good for you. I love my heated car seats on a freezing cold morning.

I bike in the rain. I walk when it is VERY cold as my breaks freeze. Yes, i walk. I’m sure I’m not as comfortable as you in your heated seats, but I’m totally fine. And I get the 8,000 steps in easily every day.

R66 it’s not just oil, it’s the automotive and airline industry that has a vested interest in not building trains. Geographically, America would be perfect for high speed trains. But it’s never happened.

I live in Italy. Florence to be exact. I work in Rome. That’s like Boston to New York. My commute is 1 h 20 minutes and about $20. The fastest train in the states would be 3 hours 30 mins. I used to live in NYC and travel by train home to Pittsburgh when airfares were over $500. That would take10 hours. The same distance here, say Milan to Rome, takes under 3 and again is about $45.

There is no reason in 2025 there isn’t a train from coast to coast in say 8 hours other than the airline and automotive industry not wanting it.

Then drive yourself to happiness!

Agree, r90.

I wish we could get something like that here. Right now, it’s just Amtrack, which has limited service AND uses freight lines. The passenger trains have to yield to the freight lines

A little tip to Americans here: The Guardian is the Left’s version of The Daily Mail in the UK. It’s a rag.

[quote] My commute is 1 h 20 minutes

Good lord. No thank you.

R86 here- I want to add that I see very few other pedestrians in my very walkable town. People will literally drive 2 minutes and park rather than walk 10. Our mayor has brought up the concept of a 15 minute city and some maga folk freaked out. So weird. But I encourage everyone who wants to explore their town/neighborhood to try and walk and see how far you can get. You might discover a cute coffee shop or bar within walking distance.

R88: Try driving in the rain with no visibility and people driving too fast for the pavement. Your attempt at smug comfort is a little weak.

R90 I don't understand why the oligarchs in general allow this. To prop up two industries? When the entire rest of the economy would save enormously? Faster cargo trains. Less traffic congestion, meaning faster and cheaper truck deliveries. Reduced business travel expenses. Same reason I don't understand why they don't want the government to run the post office like the military - when they'd all benefit hugely from cheaper and faster shipping. I think the elites don't mind spiting themselves just to refuse any luxury or mobility to lower classes.

[quote]There is no reason in 2025 there isn’t a train from coast to coast in say 8 hours other than the airline and automotive industry not wanting it.

Well, cost is a big reason. You're never going to convince Americans, the vast majority of whom would never use the system, that their taxes should be upped to pay for it. And the U.S. isn't very good at it, too boot.

Let private company do it then! Florida's Brightline is private and AMAZING for city to city travel.

r96, I don't. but you already knew that. but I bike when I can, as do my neighbors. and I don't have a car, nor will I. not everyone wants or likes the suburban lifestyle

again, these silly replies are all so zero-sum. you EITHER drive nicely in a car, OR you bike in the rain with no visibility and people driving too fast for the pavement. Nothing in life is that dead-set. god, people are so thick-skulled.

[quote]There is no reason in 2025 there isn’t a train from coast to coast in say 8 hours other than the airline and automotive industry not wanting it.

AMTRAK is a disgrace. The star of its expensive and primitive game, the Northeast Corridor route is frought with delays, it's a dark and filthy experience, and not exactly inexpensive enugh to make it an easy choice for everyone ($140 for a round-trip DC-NYC trip picked 6 weeks in advance, with many times already booked solid.) A trip, say, between NYC and Pittsburgh is crazy. There is one 11-hour overnight option involving a chaqnge of trains, and one 9.5hour direct option which is the same cost as the DC-NYC trip. The DC-NYC route is 204miles, NYC to Pittsburgh is 314miles. Luckily, PIttsburgh has train service. A great many large cities have nothing.

r101, it isn't a disgrace. people like you make the online world a silly and lie-filled hellscape

I ride the northeast corridor about once a week, usually from one large city to another and back in one day. it's not "dark and Filthy". and booking in advance it is MUCH less expensive than the tolls a car would endure for that stretch of road. pittsburgh is not northeast corridor, but you clearly already know that

R101 is delusional. I regularly ride the NE corridor. It's far more comfortable than any of the alternatives and generally runs on time.

True, R103. The secret is to take NE regionals and not Acelas, which come from far away and are often delayed (and ridiculously more expensive for the extra "speed" they provide).

I drive with my window down and my arm hanging out

[quote]I regularly ride the NE corridor. It's far more comfortable than any of the alternatives and generally runs on time.

But what are the alternatives, R103? Buses. Chinatown buses. Driving. Limo service. Shared car service. Flying.

Obviously Amtrak is the better of the available alternatives. But $140 round-trip DC-NYC for more than 6 weeks in advance is not that cheap. And 6 weeks out should be plenty of time to find a seat and get a decent price -- a price that should keep trains running on the half-hour, not half the trains full six weeks in advance for the third week in February. Given the choices I would take Amtrak every time -- or try to do. But it's not booking s trans-Atlantic cruise: you should be able to do it on short notice. The point is that comparing Amtrak to other passenger train service is not good, it's barely adequate if you're booking a 200 mile trip many months in advance.

The study was probably funded by NY Gov Kathy Hochul

[quote] The car shit is a big reason why I live in Europe now. A car payment and gas money is like lighting money on fire in places where the public transport is decent. I rent and taxi as needed, and it works out just fine.

I lived in San Francisco without a car. I was fine and I saved a lot of money.

Also lived in DC, no car. You need to figure out another way to get to Georgetown, though, because it's not on the Metro lines.

DC was a better place than SF to be car-less.

I like to perform oral sex in my vehicle

Whore

No other big country except China has high speed rail, it is not efficient at all, you need congestion and high density like Europe and Japan, stop the stupid talk and whining. Australia, Brazil, Russia do not have it.

Russia has trains though right?

R109: Georgetown is mostly for tourists at this point.

R106: You can always drive which involves traffic and lots of tolls.

I love driving and I love road trips.

[quote]You sound very very precious

I take the NY subway nearly every day of the work week. It's gross, but what else are you going to do?

I would like to delete drive-through services. They create fat, nasty, lazy people.

I’ve met people who seem to dress for driving - hair, makeup, and nails are on point and the clothing is strictly Dollar General pajama special. This cannot be good for their self esteem. Waddle out of the car. Move those bowed legs, Cowboy. You can lean on the counter.

I could not imagine not having a car and/or truck, we have both, what do you do when you have something big to carry or need something dirty like cement blocks? Or furniture etc that's small enough to take home with you? Or just not being able to get in the car and drive somewhere for myself and not on someone else's schedule.

R120: You rent a vehicle when you need one. How often do people haul cement blocks? I did it once decades ago for cheap bookshelves. I put them in my VW. I didn't need a truck. If I needed them now, I'd rent a truck for an hour from Home Depot. Your imagination seems a little limited.

[quote] Obviously Amtrak is the better of the available alternatives

It IS FUCKING BETTER THAN DRIVING, CUNT! WHY ARE YOU FUCKING POSTING ON THIS THREAD???

Amtrak is for poors.

R120, everything you want to buy can be delivered.

Walkable city here. We only have one car and I rent one once or twice a month when I need a truck or my own car for a few days. Still cheaper than another car payment.

Aren’t a lot of us working from home now, though? As one of them, I’m somewhat car dependent here in the suburbs and yet using it less than ever.

I live in both NYC and CT. I hate the subway but it's a necessary evil. The bus isn't much better. In CT it would be impossible to live without a car. I love grocery shopping and going to other stores and just throwing everything in the back and driving off. Unlike the agoraphobic, anti-social recluses who populate DL, I enjoy being out and about and doing my own shopping instead of having everything delivered.

Road rage starts here. I absolutely refuse to indulge in it.

Amtrak advocate R121 is not immune from road rage, and not a good reader. I wrote that I would always take Amtrak over driving. I hate driving. I also hate shitty train service. If you compare Amtrak to driving or any other available option, I will choose Amtrak every time. That doesn't make Amtrak great or even good. It's fairly miserable compared to train service in many other places. The US has more rail line miles than any other country but freight miles account for nearly all of those miles; but it's passenger service is miniscule and in quality, poor to just adequate.

The thing I am struggling with are the NYMBIs and local lobbyism. It's not that there aren't any ideas to make cities less dependent on cars. But everybody is just so opposed to any type of change.

My city wanted to establish bike lanes in some of our more dense neighborhoods. The outcry from local businesses and residents was just as fierce as the national outcry about everything Trump says. The pain points were basically two: Traffic would need to be slowed down and some street side parking would have been eliminated. That was enough to get out the pitch forks.

I'm struggling with your acronym for Not In My Back Yard, R130

Or were you referring to "Not Yard My Back In"?

And WTF is "local lobbyism"?

I don't want to fucking rent anything either, we do things just like that all the time, like five gallons of gas, I don't want that in the car, WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND? You make assumptions and are and arrogant cunt.

"Local lobbyism" = local business associations.

[quote]other than the airline and automotive industry not wanting it

The land that the tracks go on have to come from somewhere and the process of getting the legal rights to build a train through a town - any town - would be a fucking nightmare.

They do it all the time for new interstates.

Interstates have the political support that train lines won't.

R136, and I'd argue Interstates no longer have the support they had decades ago.

I take the Metro North between CT and Grand Central on a constant basis and it's always been gross. It stinks and you get some real riffraff and nutcases on there.

[quote]Interstates no longer have the support they had decades ago.

The took out mostly poor minority neighborhoods to build the interstates

R139, parks too. Robert Moses wanted one across Manhattan. Thankfully the brakes were already on in public opinion.

Robert Moses would've destroyed Manhattan, thank god his plans were rejected. The Village would've basically been bulldozed.

The paradigm has shifted. You don't physically have to leave home as much. You can buy stuff and have it delivered. Just about everything. Groceries, food, ice melt, dog food. We don't go to a "downtown" the way we used to. It's terrible in the sense that people aren't getting out together, both because it's extra effort and because lately, some of "getting out" has been scary. People's mental health ain't great. So why rebuild the infrastructure to fit a model that's not just changing but has already changed? My area has embraced traffic calming to the extent that it slows things down and saves lives. We still need better ways to separate vehicles from cyclists and cyclists from pedestrians, especially in crosswalks, but it's progress.

Vehicles will still be needed, but unless the US returns to the way it was pre-2020, people aren't getting to work the same way they used to commute. People aren't going out at night the way they used to party or go out to eat. There's a lot of people, relatively speaking, without near as much money to spend the way they used to and still want to, all of which leads to a decline in vehicle miles traveled. That's not coercion (Big Brother says, "You can't have a car") so much as economics ("I can't afford a car") when people are squeezed and new cars start around $25,000 or come with $700/$800 mo lease payments. The price of insurance is way up, too.

The problem, in that sense, is solving itself.

[quote][R136], and I'd argue Interstates no longer have the support they had decades ago.

They have been built. They aren't going anywhere. They don't need "support."

R143, there were plans for extensions that have been cancelled.

I think all these people living in the suburbs have no idea about the urban renewal going on in even smaller tier cities. There are a host of apartment buildings, condos and townhouses in my small southern city and more being built. People are walking (or ubering) to coffee shops and neighborhood restaurants and bars- college kids, young adults and retirees. Not everyone wants to live in a car dependent neighborhood.

[quote]Not everyone wants to live in a car dependent neighborhood.

Sure but the problem is that building a neighborhood where you don't depend on cars is literally illegal or utterly impossible in 98% of the country.

You don't need to build new neighborhoods. People need to move back to the abandoned town squares/ business districts and help with the re-gentrification. I guarantee there are apartments/ loft spaces/ homes for sale and at least one small business you can support/walk to without a car. As more people with money move back into town the more things will pop up. Thats what has happened in my small city.

Agreed. One city planning mistake was to zone cities where businesses, retail, entertainment and residences were planned to be in different neighborhoods. Nowadays cities try to reverse this by adding more residential spaces to their deserted downtown areas. It's a good start.

R143 They HAVE support: all the businesses that rely on them, are located on or near them, and all the businesses that rely on motor transport: shippers, drivers, gas and oil companies as well as all the cities and towns that rely on them to get goods in and move products out.

Not to mention that the cost of the interstate highway system was originally justified as a means to move large numbers of US troops to ports and air bases for rapid deployment overseas. They're not going to be used like that in the future (planners are always fighting the last war: we won't need to send a million troops to the UK to invade Europe again, hopefully) but the military will claim they're needed until kingdom come.

[quote]People need to move back to the abandoned town squares/ business districts and help with the re-gentrification

Except a majority of Americans are terrified of cities, no matter how safe and welcoming they are.

Witness all the lurid tales of violence and crime here on the DL. There is a whole industry devoted to making Americans terrified of going anywhere but their own living room.

I mean you’re right R150. That’s why gays and lesbians and historically led revitalization efforts in run down neighborhoods (see Williamsburg, Asbury Park, midtown Atlanta)

The real issue is public transportation kind of works in larger cities with people commuting in from the suburbs. They typically have train / bus schedules pretty much running within a 15 minute time frame between the hours of 5:00 a.m. and 9:00 a.m. .

The problem is routes outside of those time frames typically aren't good for things such as shopping, doctor appointments etc. The other problem is the trains and buses are typically overcrowded, and then there is the issue concerning people of dubious mental health status or criminal intent on transit.

Spontaneous trips for shopping going to the gym doctor appointments, veterinarian appointments etc all very hard to do on public transit outside of commuter schedules.

Public transit in NYC was built to do one thing - move workers into Manhattan to work. That's the only thing the money people thought was worth while. It's true everywhere in the US.

[quote] Everybody in any worldwide metro area

R1 Americans tend to assume that their experience is the default but no.

The town squares and business districts were abandoned for a reason: nobody wanted to live there or could. And in rural America, Flyoverstan is being depopulated. Kids with any skills or intelligence can't wait to bail out for somewhere they can make a decent living but also enjoy city life.

Sometimes gentrification works: Brooklyn comes to mind, Boston's South End was another success. But way too many attempts to repopulate rundown areas have failed - anyone buying a rowhouse in Baltimore these days? Thirty-forty years ago it was gonna be the next big thing. It's not. The city is back to trying to sell them for $1 if you'll put $100,000 into fixing it. It didn't work then and it's (so far, anyway) not working now.

R152 is also correct in that suburban access to central cities is fairly limited in focus. It made sense when everyone worked downtown to have the busses and trains funnel them in and out to a central location where they could then walk (or take a bus or metro) to work. But now a lot of the work/shopping/professional services are in the suburbs and those suburban train lines are only useful if the job is near a station on the line.

[quote]Except a majority of Americans are terrified of cities, no matter how safe and welcoming they are.

Of course. It's ingrained in Americans to fear cities and foreign countries.

A certain urban grit is tolerated by some younger Americans, but by the time the straight ones start marrying off, having kids, having the parents around for visits, many can scarcely flee the city fast enough.

I'm always amazed when someone from the U.S. posts a photo on social media from outside the U.S. how many comments from otherwise intelligent people are cautionary. "Be careful!" "Stay safe!" as if they were vacationing in Ukraine.

[quote]Witness all the lurid tales of violence and crime here on the DL. There is a whole industry devoted to making Americans terrified of going anywhere but their own living room.

Rightly and wrongly. Again, cities and foreign destinations are portrayed as horrifying. Though there is some truth only if you compare stats of many popular tourist destinations to the U.S. In Spain the murder rate per 100,000 is 0.68 compared to 6.38 in the U.S.; the rate of serious assault is 33 per 100,000 in Spain compared to 280 per 100,000 in the U.S. A national problem for the U.S. is portrayed as a worry for cities and foreign destinations. Stay home, indeed

The US had an insanely high amount of violent crime compared to other Western nations. The US is more like Latin America in that regard.

[quote] My car represents freedom.

[quote] Cars really are freedom coded in America. I get it. I love a day trip or exploring or going down to the beach or something. Very fun. But in my city? Nothing feel less like freedom between 3pm-7pm than traffic!

You don't really get it. I have no idea what's freedom coded or not in America. I just know that where I live (not in a city, like so many of you in this thread or on this forum) Many of you don't own a car, or a home. That isn't the norn in the majority of the country.

I would have very little freedom to go anywhere without an automobile. Also I don't understand how people can lug their stuff everywhere. Maybe you're just used to it. Maybe you always buy something you need, like a snack or water. I save a lot of money not doing that. Having a 12-pack of water in the car. And shopping at supermarkets and buying all my groceries for the week. Which don't cast a fortune at some small local shops. Having an extra jacket or sweater in the car. Or being able to leave my jacket in the car and not have to lug it around if I'm too warm.

It's much easier to make my own schedule. Going to somebody's wedding? I leave home when I want, leave the event when I feel like it. I don't have to depend on a city transportation system to take me anywhere. I own my wheels. Not being as dependent on an elaborate system is why I say it's freeing. You either get it or you don't.

*norm

The real thing is, I'm not much for seeing the same scenery often, yet, unlike many of you, I can't afford a big vacations involving flying and hotels.

I don't usually have a set destination when I relax. I prefer to explore. When you're taking buses or trains, it's to reach predetermined destinations. I live in a part of the country where there's a lot to explore, where there are mountains, beaches and lakes within a 1 or 2 hours driving distance. Going a lot of different places seems necessary for me to maintain my mental health. If I was living in a 15-minute pedestrian or bus-oriented place, without the ability to fly somewhere on vacation, I'd probably feel like killing myself. Cars do mean a sense of freedom for people who aren't well off. A lot of people don't realize this at all.

* I also live near a big city and have the option of driving or taking public transportation to it.

Exactly r158/r159

The old queens on here who only leave their hovels for more vodka and chocolate bars and stopped interacting with the world circa 1989 just don't get it.

[quote]I would have very little freedom to go anywhere without an automobile. Also I don't understand how people can lug their stuff everywhere. Maybe you're just used to it. Maybe you always buy something you need, like a snack or water. I save a lot of money not doing that. Having a 12-pack of water in the car. And shopping at supermarkets and buying all my groceries for the week. Which don't cast a fortune at some small local shops. Having an extra jacket or sweater in the car. Or being able to leave my jacket in the car and not have to lug it around if I'm too warm.

I live in Europe in the pedestrianized center of city of 1 million people. A car would be a burden to me, a huge pain in the ass. I have no real need for a car and like not having one. Lugging things about isn't a problem because the things I need are all ver close at hand. Within three blocks of my house are two large grocery stores, an organic grocer, a small specialty grocer of locally produced and luxury foods, three butchers, four sellers of seafood, two fruit sellers, two bakeries, a dry cleaners, two shops that sell ready made food to take home with menus that change daily, a wine shop, 13 coffee shops that also serve light food, even more restaurants, two general merchandise shops, three barbers... and two blocks further there is an enormous department store, the old-fashioned kind that has everything including a giant grocery store. In short all of these things are a five minute walk or less. People don't do all of their shopping at one place for a whole week, or store bottled water in their car. When you don't have to buy a week's worth of groceries at once, you can buy what suits you on the day. Stores don't have long lines and its a pleasant, efficient experience to pop in to the grocery by two of three items in five minutes -- no need to find a parking spot, and wander thrughout the store with a shopping cart as big as a car.

The best fruit is found from the fruit seller. The same with bread, meat, seafood... Most people do not buy huge bulk packs of maple syrup or paper towels or 50 lbs of dog food (though you can do, and have it delivered for free). They have apartment sized kitchens and usually no garage or basement or storage for bulk buying. 'Freedom' can as easily mean freedom from being tied to a menu designed a week ago, the abililty to take drinks or a meal with friends on short notice, to deciding to make a meal around someting that looks great in a shop.

Not haven't driven in my city for six years is liberating for me. All the things I could possibly need are within a 5 or 15 minute walk. Driving is highly restricted and would be a headache, not a freedom. If I travel elsewhere, I can rent a car on the occasion I want to visit several towns or cities not well connected by train or bus. Cabs are cheap. There not much reason to have a car unless one works at a great distance or travels frequently.

I understand what you describe, R158. I am originally from the US and know that in smaller cities -- for that matter even in some larger cities-- that public transportation is not especially pleasant or convenient or inexpensive. In the US, the majority of people think first of their car when setting out to do anything at all. Driving is the default. I've lived that, but now I'm delighted not to drive as it was something I never enjoyed. For me it's no hardship 'lugging' a small bag of shopping from the grocer two doors away or for spending twenty minutes and buying food from three, four, five shops. In a car that would be enormously awkward, on foot it takes no time at all and is pleasant. And if you want anything delivered, someone will bring it around to your house at the hour you like, no charge. It's a world apart from the American suburban model, but the carless model in a city center works fine.

[quote]I live in Europe in the pedestrianized center of city of 1 million people. A car would be a burden to me, a huge pain in the ass. I have no real need for a car and like not having one.

Yes because you live in Europe. It's a whole different story in most of the US.

I've lived in NYC for 35 years and loved not having a car like R162.

I retired to a very walkable town and now I can choose to walk or drive because both are easy. I love this even more for the reasons R158/R159 stated.

In other words, best of both worlds, and this is a nice way to live for most of us if we had the option.