The gay community is exploding

Are you the OP of that Reddit thread too?

Exploding? Because of a reddit thread?

OP is still a virgin.

Oh, henny. You'll have to do better than that, OP. This is the Datalounge.

[R2] The gay community is splitting over the definition of sex and sexuality. If gay men can't properly define the definition of homosexuality or even gay, how can they protect their rights? Can a man be homosexual or gay and still sleep with ftms or cis women? What does this mean for gay rights as a whole?

[R3] You can call me an incel. I'm sex-negative.

R5, the whole thing is so stupid.

You can be gay and sleep with women. Many have

R/askgaybros is a cesspool of emotionally-stunted sad sacks. 1000s of threads that are basically "why did this one guy on Grindr decline to fuck/date me?".

R6 even after coming out? Couldn’t you statement be used to prove that homosexuality is a choice?

Some random observations:

- There is no gay community. There's a gay population. The community is a myth, although there are pockets of it.

- The gay sensibility as we knew it is going the way of the dodo. All things must pass. DL is a bit of a time capsule of that sensibility. Many of the things the collective DL culture hates are a function of this changing sensibility. It's bittersweet, but many of the things we latched onto as a supposed "gay culture" were in reaction to a more homophobic world.

- Younger people are more ok with sexual fluidity and don't have the issues with vaginas that previous generations have. Misogyny is more of an eldergay thing.

But the last assumption is based on the idea that society will always have a favorable or tolerant view of homosexuality. I think that this could lead to problems down road?

If sexuality is fluid then shouldn’t people choose to be straight? Should the government have the role of monitoring the promotion of homosexuality in media to prevent people from identifying as LGBTQ? Should gay adults be around children as it would influence them to consider homosexuality as an alternative option? Would it be in a nation’s interests to clear gay presence from public life?

This land us in new territory that could to some terrifying results.

According to straight men - a single bicurious thought once in your life makes you FULLY homosexual so just think of bisexual men as lying gays.

[quote] I think that this could lead to problems down road?

Who said advocacy, awareness, and codified protections should stop?

[quote]If sexuality is fluid then shouldn’t people choose to be straight?

Really? Really? People are works in progress, and we've known sexuality is a spectrum since Kinsey put the idea forth in an scientific, peer-reviewed environment.

[quote]a single bicurious thought once in your life makes you FULLY homosexual so just think of bisexual men as lying gays

And what happens when an effeminate man or gay man has a sexual relationship with a woman in the gay community? Gay men, especially older gay men, just can't compute this shit and do the same thing.

R9 👏

Everything R9 wrote is true.

It’s been interesting to see this debate take hold in Radical Faerie spaces and communities. There are older “male homo essentialists” who have built up a myth and mental universe in which men who are erotically attracted to men are special treasures in this world and superior to the general population. This gets dressed up in “woo” language but it’s the feeling.

Then there are younger generations who are bringing trans/non-binary and female allies into the space, wanting more emphasis on safety and inclusion, and not at all “male homo essentialists” in their thinking.

The former built these communities, but increasingly, the younger ones are the ones doing the dishes and cleaning the bathrooms while the older ones are sliding towards elderly or already there.

Do not let activists on greater social media or on here confuse you. Gay is not going anywhere. If you actually interact with Gen Z in real life, you'll see that while there is an increase in otherwise "straight" people doing the trans stuff on the apps, there's still tons of gay men that age that want nothing to do with "fluidity" or anything of the sort. Pussy is as disgusting to them as previous generations because homosexuality is something we're born with. They're not as vocal about it, but talk to them and look at what they actually do.

Also, I think a lot of the non-binary, gender -picking, straights pretending to be queer, etc. is a fad and will not survive the coming tough times ahead. It's a game for the spoiled and mother nature is about to have her revenge for decades upon decades of excess by humans. But even if I'm wrong about that, gay men will still be around as a unique subset. Nothing will destroy us or stop future generations of us from liking men and not women sexually. Not Trump. Not activists of any sort. Nothing.

[quote]They're not as vocal about it

And that's the generational difference right there. Just because you're not into vaginas doesn't mean you need to fucking announce your absolute disgust with them. I think these men would even put it the way you did, saying "pussy is disgusting". There's no need to be nasty if you're not into something. It's taking on the behavior of straight homophobes to do so.

[quote]Nothing will destroy us or stop future generations of us from liking men and not women sexually.

Certainly not, but how it's expressed as a culture, both internally and externally, has and will change.

Sorry — I think these men WOULDN'T even put it the way you did*

The Great Debate gay vs really gay vs bi vs queer is not something the sane part of the country sits around and discusses weekly like we at DL or some other on line forum do. They just don’t give a shit because they have important things to think about,

Sometimes it’s just a blow job. And many a man will have stuck his dick into a glory hole for a nice blow job that has absolutely no attraction to other men sexually or as far as romance.

This is why CDC has never used gay or queer to describe anyone . This “men who have sex with men” was being used in one form or another decades before1981.

The only thing that counts is what you do.

I think if you look closely enough, if the truth was actually accessible, the percentage of 100% straight men is about the same as 100% gay men. EVERYONE else is somewhere in between.

If you look at the data less than 2% identify as gay men in the US. Most straight men have never had sex with another man . Most Bi men likely have had sex with a woman. But BIs in the US——about 4% and that includes men and women.

You could look closely enough at the data that exists but you didn’t.

R19

That assumes everyone is telling the truth, R20, and there's a lot of baggage around that. Hell, people won't even tell pollsters the truth about voting for Trump, as we learned.

R21 poll after poll showed trump with the lead. The Dems and GOP international polls showed Trump with the lead.

Those that posted that fact on DL were called Boris and told to go back to MAGA land. Or we were told that it’s far too early for polls to count and Trumps lead would turn into a Biden then Harris win.

Noting in life is 100% perfect. The argument to not listen to polls comes down to “they are not 100 % perfect” or it’s people not liking what the polls show.

With GenZ more Trans than Gay men. Trends do change and the professional surveys can catch the trends.

“ internal” ^

R16 has it right. Straight people have the agency to express instant horror at being accused of same-sex attraction on an hourly basis - It's pretty much the source of all comedy acts. Gay men who have the same horror of hetero sex just say it less - but vilified more than, especially, fragile hetero women who spend all day asserting their straightness and rejecting men who can't validate their fragile femininity if men are slightly less than Neanderthal. And This is where the incels come in unfortunately.

Straight women's (and mens') absolutism is culturally accepted; gay peoples' is the same (but rather more likeable). Sex is absolutely not fluid. I've never met a bi-person, nor a gay man who would even consider pussy. It's, dare I say, "natural"?

Absolutism is not the property of straights.

R24 has never met a bi man that would consider pussy :-)

I feel like there’s a bit of hostility throughout that thread towards gay men who are 100% gay. Some of us are “gold star”, which I don’t think is some sort of badge, or bad thing either. It is what it is. And it doesn’t make us misogynistic - I’m just not sexually attracted to women. I don’t actively hate women because I’m not attracted to them - that’s a ludicrous assumption. We all like what we like. I agree that the notion of a gay “community” doesn’t really seem to exist the way it used to. Even in my small community I don’t see the big gatherings you once saw. PRIDE is about anything but “gay”, now, so I don’t even see local gay men support local PRIDE events the way they once did. I don’t know why we as a society care so much about who people have sex with, though. I really don’t care about the sex life of my straight neighbors, and I hope they don’t care about mine. Live your life.

R14- That Non-binary designation is very WOKE to me.

It sounds like someone who’s in another dimension.

The explosion if you want to see one is found with the GenZ. Gay and Lesbian have remained pretty stable in terms of % a small tiny rise in %.

The real increases are found with the B and Q the +++ and the T.

We are only guessing what the future holds.

R24 I did consider re-punctuating (or bracketing) to make the two mutually exclusive (as they are in real life)- but honestly didn't think anyone on this site would even notice. Well done.

Still never met a 50/50 bi-sexual. EVER. Porn stars on meth and gay for pay instabros don't count.

R25 ^ R29 was for you btw

R29 talk about changing the goal posts to suit the narrative. Now you go from bi—-which means sex with man and woman—-to 50% 50% even split between love of men and women.

Most BIs , as far as what I have seen, not all but most, are sex addicts more than 50% 50% of anything.

Although on DL we have a 100% gay man who married and fucked a female for 3 years. So I guess 100% is a relative term for some. So who knows?

R29 "Now you go from bi—-which means sex with man and woman—-to 50% 50% even split between love of men and women.

Most BIs , as far as what I have seen, not all but most, are sex addicts more than 50% 50% of anything".

Surely bis are doing both? There's a clue in the prefix- bi - for binary? Split between 2? 50/50 (regardless of the number of occasions) ? And who said anything about "love"? That's a dirty word...

But definitely agree with you on the second point!

(But Still never met one outside porn-world)

It's like none of you know what anecdotal means. Your personal experience does not necessarily reflect what's going on in the wider world.

R33 give us the t then

[Quote] even after coming out? Couldn’t you statement be used to prove that homosexuality is a choice?

There is a full continuum of sexuality. “Gay” is a proclivity, not something set in stone from which no one must ever deviate.

Our erasure still stands: if you want dick you're a woman; if you want pussy, you're a man. All gay men are trans women; all lesbians are trans men.

We have spoken!

I feel so erased!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I stick a shampoo bottle up my ass, am I still gay? A bottle isn’t a penis after all

R38 is it a Hers shampoo bottle?

R39, no a Costco sized Dove shampoo

Nothing says mentally un-sturdy like r36.

Will the explosion continue once science determines why babies are born less than heterosexual and whatever reason they find can ”be fixed”. Then being born gay in the future would be a true choice.

That topic would be worth a few DL threads.

The actual battle is between the people who just want a quick fuck or a quick blow job and move on with their day versus the people who want everyone to be culturally gay.

The people who want everyone to be culturally gay want to increase their numbers for obvious reasons and there is value in that. The people on the other side don't want to conflate sexual acts with other parts of their lives - a quick blowie between two consenting adults is just a quick blowie and not a lifestyle choice.

It's a battle that can't be won.

Exploding? At my age it’s more like a dribble.

The gay community has never been a monolithic one. And if you want the community to be unified, unify it. Decrying an explosion is hardly improving things.

The Under-45s will adjust their sexual identity according to the latest political climate.

Mhm.

R22, that's not true that young people are more likely to identify as trans than gay

"There are very few gay people, and I'VE decided that most gay men are bi. = I'm ugly and fat and no one likes me or wants to fuck me.

"It's hard being a gay (white) man. = "I'm the type who wouldn't find it easy to be anything anywhere, and life is hard for everyone, most having it harder than you."

"I'm depressed and lonely." = Despite informnation and help everywhere, I don't bother trying to work on myself to make me fit company for others."

"I have a lot of love to give." = Love is transactional and I have a lot of love I want to take."

"The world is against gay people." = "Still, largely, yes, and I can choose where and how I live, unlike the majority of gay men in the world, but I am staying where I am in misery."

R48 Gallup 2023,

Gallup who have been doing these surveys for a long time have more trans than gay in 2023 for GenZ. Now it’s not a lot more but it is more.

You can look it up yourself.

I wonder why you didn't take the time to reference your claims if you're so goddamned invested in them, r50.

Took me 30 second to prove r50 was lying.

Source.

And I wonder how you can engage in a discussion and be so unaware of the data? R51

Friend I have mentioned the Gallup survey for 2023 especially the GenZ figures a lot,on DL. This time I gave you the benefit of the doubt, I assumed too much.

No, you failed to mention the explosive growth in bisexual claims that dwarf the growth in trans AND gay claims. You're manipulating the data to fit your agenda.

R52 proved me lying :-)

Did you even read what you posted? GenZ

Gay 2.6%

Trans 2.8%

You must have never taken a stats class, or you'd know what statistically significant means, r56.

R55 reread the thread I already pointed out that the explosive growth in the LGBTQ+++ has come from BIs, the largest group, but also significant increases in the T and the others like the ++

You can't conclude anything that you want us to from this, r58. The growth in G and T is not different in a statistically significant way. It's essentially the same.

R57 I said larger. Nothing else. And 2.8 is larger than 2,6.

I could have said the exact same or smaller but then I would be wrong. At least you found the data and now are better informed.

I am informed that you wanted the data story to tell us to be scared of Ts causing the gay population to implode, and that's clearly not the case.

R61 No I am not making any point about the T except that in Gallup 2023 there were more T and G. As opposed to previous surveys where there were more G than T.

You can claim this is an unimportant temporary glitch not a long term trend and you might be correct.

But that does not change the fact that 2.8 is larger than 2.6. Or that BIs are by far the largest single group.

Again, you don't understand what statistically significant means in this context. 2.8 and 2.6 are essentially the same here.

And you are now denying that 2.8 is larger than 2.6. Just the fucking way Gallup shows it.

Maybe you should be writing Gallup and telling them that 2.8 % and 2.6 % are the exact same.

No, I'm saying nobody with any training in statistics can draw the any conclusions they can take to the bank when the numbers are that close.

Also:

Another way to say it is there's no way numbers that close can prove a hypothesis that there are more trans than gay Gen Z people.

And that's before we get into the bi stuff, but this is already long-winded enough given you don't understand how stats work when it comes to drawing conclusions.

[Quote] The gay community is exploding

Really?!?!? Can I get video? Oh happy day!

[quote]Then there are younger generations who are bringing trans/non-binary and female allies into the space...

No, they're really just blindly jumping on the "queer" bandwagon because the trans movement has bullied them into a whole bushel of beliefs. They are only acting in a performative manner, they aren't doing much of purpose other than accidentally.

Like the other poster said, there are "populations", but the insistence on some cohesive "community" has always been a myth.

[quote]No, they're really just blindly jumping on the "queer" bandwagon because the trans movement has bullied them into a whole bushel of beliefs. They are only acting in a performative manner, they aren't doing much of purpose other than accidentally.

Are we supposed to just trust your judgement on this one?

R68, the "trans movement" isn't bullying anyone but transphobic conservatives sure are. Why do you care how people identify? Mind your own business

R66 I draw no fucking conclusions.

Unlike you I am not invested in any way in this trans business. And I don’t give a shit if there are more T or more G or more Q than anything else. I think this fixation on labels or how people want to self-identify is silly. I just don’t care.

But I do understand that many like yourself have strong opinions about how people self identify and specifically the trans issue.

You're a lying sack of shit, and you and I both know it. We're done.

It’s hard to infer much from data on % of transgender people when the survey questions could shape the outcome and the questions could be anything from “Do you identify today as a completely different gender from the sex-assigned gender you were born with” to “do you ever feel even just a little bit non-binary deep down inside.”

T vs percentage of LGB means nothing. T is not sexuality. It’s fashion / appearance.

[quote]Are we supposed to just trust your judgement on this one?

Yes.

Any man who thinks pussy is 'disgusting' is really dealing with something other than being gay.

I'm not into pussy, but I don't retch at the sight or thought of it. Some of you are in middle school still.

^ Do you feel the same way about straight men who go on and on about how disgusting homosexuality is?

Incel: involuntary celibate

Yes R77, it's not rocket science. These men clearly have issues outside of being straight. Were you thinking that's a trick question of some sort?

OP, did you mean 'imploding'?

Lots of pearl-clutching queens in misogynistic arrested development around here with trans people and vaginas. We're not being erased. We're just not the centre of attention anymore and have to share the spotlight now. It's actually a GOOD thing, as it comes from not dying in droves anymore and having codified rights. Get the fuck over it.

Blowed up good.

have to share

Just who says that? The tranny vagina crowd? You must be a tard and troll.

Why must there be iron-clad definitions for everything???

One ironclad definition is "Women don't have a penis"

I'm sure there are others!

Mine is "People can call themselves whatever they want. If it's a direct personal problem for me, I'll work it out with them directly like an adult."

Identifying as Trans is like piercing and ear gauges to gen x or tattoos to millennials. As soon as people grow up, need to get a job, fit in - that shit gets covered up, put away right quick.

R87, no it isn't. Conservatives said the same thing about gays. It's not true.

Support Dylan and Trans in Sports and Fuck Conservatives

^ Support scapegoating minority groups who make up less than 1% of the population.

R90 who won the election? And please the GOP milked the shit out of the trans issue as they should have.

Bill Clinton tried to warn the Dems and Harris but he said they did not listen.

R91, Daniel Cameron, Herschel Walker, and Tudor Dixon ran on transphobia. All lost. Cameron couldn't even win in a red state like Kentucky 🤣

Maybe you're young because you don't remember when gay marriage was extremely unpopular. People wanted Dems to throw gays under the bus

[quote]People wanted Dems to throw gays under the bus

Actually, it's off the rooftops.

R92 And today gay marriage is supported by “ over” 70% of the population, not sure what else in the country has support from over 70% of Americans,?

Yes I am old enough to remember Obama not supporting gay marriage. Then like the vast majority of Americans he changed his thinking, people do change their minds and thinking at times,

R94, yes, 70% of Americans support it now, but they sure as fuck didn't 20 years. Republicans FREAKED out when Massachusetts legalized gay marriage. They wanted to amend the constitution and abandoned their "states rights" stance because they wanted gay marriage to be banned across the country

Now is what counts unless you are doing a history paper. Surprise to many but Americans can and do change their mind.

And today gay marriage is one of the most popular issues in the country—-DL is sad and outraged,

^ Now is what counts? Yep, that's what people said about gays 20 years ago.

There is no "Gay Community," As a gay man for longer than most of you are old, I have no connection to Transgenders. They have fractured whatever community there once was.

[quote]And today gay marriage is supported by “ over” 70% of the population

Yet it's opposed by 54% of Republicans, who will control the Presidency, House, Senate and Supreme Court in a few short weeks.

Trans didn't "fracture" anything. You sound pretty fragile.

R99 this admin is not coming after gay marriage. That may make some happy and some sad on DL but this admin is not coming after gay marriage no matter how you feel.

R101, "the administration" doesn't have to do shit. The Supreme Court can overturn. The Court is filled with far right homophobes, many of whom were appointed by Trump

I don't think the "admin" is coming after gay marriage. But red states certainly will be. Whether the admin will lift a finger to impede them is an open question.

Porn is turning a lot of gay and straight guys into bisexuals.

Yes as R192 points out the Supreme Court is a different branch of Govt and not part of this admin..

And the SC is lost to Dems and progressives for decades to come. Most likely the rest of your life. The price of losing once again and this time 3-0.

^ ROFLMAO, no it isn't.

Sorry, the post at r106 was aimed at r104, not r105. Porn doesn't make people bi.

The reason we are lumped together is because of political reasons. LGBTQ+ has strong political influence. We need to embrace the coalition or be picked off one by one.

One of the big reasons the GOP has been going after trans is specifically to break up a solid LGBTQ coalition, which has historically voted Dem.

Asians, for example, aren't a monolith either but they've created a strong political presence by linking lots of different Asian American populations under one umbrella. Same with White, Black, Latino.

Why would the GOP going after trans break up the GLBTQ+++ coalition you describe as solid ? R108

Unless you are suggesting that many in the GLBQ+++ agree with the GOP on this trans and kids and trans and sports , trans and mental health issue.

^ They try to convince gays that the .6% of people who are trans are a threat to them, just like how they try to pit ethnic minorities against each other (Mexicans are stealing the black jobs!)

Thankfully, most gays are too smart to fall for this nonsense. Most of us voted for Kamala because we know that electing a felon and rapist won't "make America great again"

The OP's premise is stupid. Young gay males still exist and always will. I fear these other supposed trendy labels (QA+) are eating away at the straight demographics. Oh well..