THEATRE GOSSIP #579- Falling Into the Orchestra Pit of Data Lounge

And DLers don't need fat suits

Okay, that's a pretty good title.

Thank you.

I’m rooting for the queens who have Gypsy tickets to actually see the show tomorrow!

For 35 years the words "There is no understudy, monsieur - the production is new" were spoken on the Majestic stage. Maybe the building remembers.

R4. But WHO will they see tomorrow.

It sure was nice hearing C-list actor's backstage take on that tortuous production of Jesus Christ Superstar in the last thread. I'd seen the director's production of it in London at The Lyceum and that was extraordinary, so I expected a reworking of that production. Instead, she turned it into a mash-up of Rent and West Side Story. I felt bad for everyone in that cast.

And I appreciate my post about Manoel inspiring a title!

Hmmmm....nice job of putting the link in the previous thread.

Úyu.

And now for a moment of... GYPSY!

Previous thread.

R7- don’t feel bad for me! I enjoyed all 5.5 months of that run. I was on Broadway! Living the dream! Performing on Rosie twice and at the Tonys. Only thing I didn’t get to do was a recording and the Thanksgiving Day parade! The director was a force and inspiring to work with even if the final product wasn’t to the critics’ liking. We did have our fans though and that helped.

Hudson? That no talent scag? Why not get the original? I could sing the shit out of that score!

I haven't heard the word scag in 40 years.

Swept Away sails off into the sunset today.

R11 JFC at least give us a warning.

R11-Jesus, people actually PAID to see that? She doesn't have a clue what the song is about. And to think I wanted to see her as Dolly Levi!

I have a bootleg audio of the last performance of Merman's GYPSY on Broadway. There are so many lines that she nails (because they were written for her.) Can't imagine Audra can do the same. The show zips along with incredible energy, Merman is tops, and the orchestra is on fire.)

Best Mama Rose I ever saw was in a community production in Birmingham Alabama a number of years ago - and I saw Tyne, Bernie, Patti, and Imelda.

Posters like r19 demonstrate why there are different opinions on the same performances. I suspect “nailing” a line means playing it forcefully, with no consideration of character or subtext. And Audra is never going to do that.

[quote]I suspect “nailing” a line means playing it forcefully

Sorry, r21, that isn't what it means. It means delivering the line successfully.

If you trust the material, the character and subtext comes through without trying.

Audra would never deign to "nail" a line. She is totally above such everyday vulgarities. She is our queen, and we are her subjects.

Did Gypsy go on today?

I thought " Nailing a line" had something to do with cocaine, which is appropriate for a theater thread.

[quote]If you trust the material, the character and subtext comes through without trying.

You have to understand the material first, r23.

Best Mama Rose I ever saw was Beth Leavel. Brilliant.

And Merman famously did not understand the material. According to Sondheim:

[quote] She said, 'Yeah, yeah, but you know that stuff where she stutters and goes mmmomma, mmmomma, is that on the upbeat or the downbeat?' ' Mr. Sondheim told her that it did not matter: she could sing it either way.

Well...

R25-It did.

I believe nailing it means “getting it right.” If Audra isn’t nailing it, it means she’s getting it wrong. And how does that men Merman didn’t understand the material r29? She just wanted clarity for the number.

r30, is that Kaye Ballard? It's dreadful.

Sondheim liked to make fun of Merman, but he well knew that much of the initial success of Gypsy they owed to her. I often wonder who they might have hired to replace her if she had been forced to withdraw right before the opening? What star of the time could have filled her shoes? She was easy to caricature, but there were many reasons she was a big star and box office draw.

They could have got her Call Me Madam understudy, r34.

The idea of a Mary Martin or Carol Channing-led Gypsy is not a pretty one.

Horn? When did I eat horn?

r33 It's Tony winner Beth Leavel.

I always thought that if Martin could ever have accessed what Jung would call her shadow—the barely adult mother who abandoned her child to be raised by grandparents so she could pursue show biz, the calculating crypto-lesbian who married a man to manage her career and provide “wholesome “ cover, the “sweetheart “ who had her husband do her dirty work in getting rid of people she didn’t want to work with—if she acknowledged these parts of herself and could have had the guts to display it onstage, she might have been an interesting Rose. Channing had the smarts to know what it would take to play Rose, but didn’t have the right skill set to do it.

Mary Martin was actually a fascinating Sabina in a TV version of The Skin of Our Teeth in the 1950s, mustering similarly mean-spirited and self-absorbed qualities like those you mention, r39. She was a far more adept and varied actress than the one we remember now.

I sincerely wonder if she ever considered playing Rose. Probably not, as having just played a young postulant on Broadway, winning the Tony away from Merman, she knew no one would have ever gone for it. Oh well, our loss that she didn't.

Both Martin and Channing could have played Rose...Martin COULD have channeled that steeliness but it would have been a stretch for her, having to subdue her natural urge to "twinkle" and be charming.

Channing's Rose would have been hysterical. Not appropriate but it would have been a hugely entertaining musical COMEDY. Rose as a funny monster.

But the thing about Rose, as Angela Lansbury understood and proved, is that she can "twinkle" and be charming. Until June leaves. Mary Martin might also have given the character an arc with some variation.

Bernadette was closer to the real Rose Hovick and Annie Oakley. But...the shows were written for brash Ethel.

Eeeek, that Beth Leavel clip is atrocious.

Miss Lavin has left the theatre.

Bye bye, dear Linda Lavin.

I saw her in... FOLLIES... of course!

She had possibilities.

Well, another possible Audra standby bites the dust…

Martin thrived by knowing her lane and staying in it. It was one thing to play Merman's role in ANNIE and Channing's in DOLLY, but was wise not to venture into heavier dramatic roles. (It's amusing to think of a opposite switch—Merman playing Nellie Forbush or Channing playing Maria Von Trapp.) Can't see her as Rose, but I'd sure like to see her try.

[quote]R40 Mary Martin was a far more adept and varied actress than the one we remember now.

She was Elia Kazan’s initial choice for Blanche. Tennessee Williams wanted the English Pamela Brown, and Irene Mayer Selznick wanted Margaret Sullavan.

Williams said of Sullavan, “I kept seeing her with a tennis racket in her hand, and I had the distinct feeling Blanche had never played tennis in her life.”

Swept Away is dead to me.

R20, my almost-best Madam Rose was in a community production on the North Shore of Long Island about 15 years ago. (Always go see any production of Gypsy you can is my motto!). I’ve remembered it since, for the Herbie (from the original onward, I’d seen ‘em all), a golfing buddy of a buddy of mine, became my “third-favorite Herbie,” and the Tessie Tura was brilliant, had really been around the block numerous times. And how could you not like a Madam Rose who sang every song standing sideways center-stage looking to her left out to the house, her left arm straight down and her right leg tapping time with the music. Terrific! She could not be more a star in amateur theatre, Bless Her Heart.

I always thought Merrick liked the Gypsy Rose Lee memoir and wanted to do it as a musical, certainly tailored for Merman. She was the biggest star. If he could get her to do it he had his show. But what if he had a thing for, say, Delores Gray or Lisa Kirk. Would either have left such a stamp on the role we’d be talking about a portrayal of Madame Rose all these years later? I don’t think so. And today there’s no need to play Madame Rose as Merman did. I’ve seen many take on the role. Read the memoir. For me the best Rose, closer to as written in the memoir, has been Bernadette Peters.

I had no idea Linda Lavin was 87. Bless her.

R54 Given her highly-publicized (within theater circles) tempestuous relationship with her own pushy stage mother, Dolores Gray would've been an interesting choice. She certainly could've handled the score easily and, like Peters, had an innate sex appeal that makes you believe this woman could've been something.

R56, Dolores replaced Angela in the London production. She sang the hell out of it.

R57. Dolores also played Rose at Papermill and did a summer stock tour.

The real Rose Hovick appears as a guest contestant on an old episode of the game show I've Got a Secret. Look for it on youtube. She was nothing like Bernadette Peters. Nor Ethel Merman, for that matter.

R59, Yet Peters and Merman, according to DL, were exactly right for the role solely because the real Rose was white...

Oh, wow, thank you R57 and R58! I should've known that she had tackled the role at some point.

The London GYPSY that starred Lansbury and (later) Gray was originally planned/pitched with Stritch as the proposed Rose. No dice with the money-men.

R62, thank goodness sanity prevailed

R62 Stritch never got over it though.

Bitter about that to the end!

[quote] Stritch never got over it though.

She never got over any role that was denied her. She went on and on about not getting Dorothy in The Golden Girls right up until her death

Stretch had a smash hit sitcom in the UK…no further comment 👻

Rosie O'Donnell would be the perfect Rose if the director interprets her as a psychotic loon who has totally overestimated her own talent and lives life as a megalomaniacal tyrant.

R67 instead of singing “Small World” Rosie could recite a dramatic poem about how guns stole her “yellow”

If Stritch was in Golden Girls it would have turned into an all female Who’s Afraid Of Virginia Woolf.

More a lesbo Delicate Balance poly arrangement.

Hilarious how DLers throw out random names and say so-and-so "would make a great Rose." No they wouldn't.

Amazed that so far nobody has mentioned that Sondheim and Laurents allegedly wanted Judy Garland to play Rose in the movie of Gypsy.

R72 - now THAT would have been fascinating casting.

I know theatre advertising wasn't as sophisticated back then, but, ooof, an interesting choice for the Angie Gypsy production. A tiny snippet of Rose's Turn out of context looks... demented.

I think it's a fucking GREAT commercial, r74.

Dear, departed Linda does Roses!

(I hate the lighting cue... is this how it was always staged in that revival with the lights dimming to black on Rose before she's even finished the final note?)

She hurts my ears. I see none of the genius she was supposed to display in that.

I feel like the Gypsy producers could get a ton of press if they could stage a Rose reunion with Bernadette, Patti, Tyne (maybe even Betty?) all invited to the same performance of Gypsy and, of course, taking photos together backstage with Audra.

Doubt Patti would agree to it, though, given her ridiculous bitterness over Bernadette getting the role before her.

Nope.

R74, I used to be friendly with Maureen Moore, who was Dainty June in the Lansbury revival and stood by for Bernadette in 2003. I deliberately went to see her go on, and she was utterly amazing. Went back afterwards and said, “You did the demonic doll dance that Angela did!” (which you can see in the commercial, right at “Everything’s Coming Up Rose!”, where she puts her hands up like she’s impersonating Baby June… a brilliant choice, because her Rose is regressing… starts out saying she could’ve been better than Louise, bumps and grinds, and ends up acting like a seven year old kiddie star.)

When I said that to Maureen, she said, “Sam Mendes wouldn’t rehearse me, so I basically stole some things from Bernadette, a LOT from Angela, threw in some of my own ideas, and a couple of moments that I lifted from Tyne. If you’re stuck with a stage manager who gives you the blocking but no direction, you’ve got to resort to petty larceny.”

She was also the best Norma Desmond I ever saw in the original production, when she stood by for Elaine Paige. She got it all right; the sexiness, the insanity, the vocals, and the pathos. Most of them only got two or three of those elements.

I think Sam Mendes not rehearsing Maureen is the reason why she was a brilliant Rose (and she was).

Sad that Maureen Moore never got a chance to star in her own show.

Many years ago, I worked on a new off-Broadway musical in which she was cast as one of the leads, but she left after the first week because IIRC she was cast as a replacement Constanza in AMADEUS. She seemed very sweet and genuine, lots sweeter than the cunt who replaced her.

R82 what was the show?

By all accounts, everyone who ever worked with Maureen loved her. She’s very much like Bernadette in that way.

R80 - Ha! That's great. Love her resourcefulness, though, hate that Mendes wouldn't rehearse her. Asshole behavior.

r84- I don't think it's his job to rehearse the understudies. There's usually a resident director to do that. And as was said, it sounds like she did well on her own.

Afterr seeing Bernadette do Rose's Turn on the Tony's, I really didn't want to see her do the show (I thought she was working SO HARD, it was uncomfortable) so I second acted it when Moore was on for her, and I have to say it's still my favorite Rose's Turn ever. Simple and she just belted it to the back wall. Perfect.

Please tell me that at least Maureen Moore married some billionaire businessman and has some wonderful children.

Every Rose seems so controversial (other than maybe Merman and Lansbury).

I’ve constantly heard both love and hate for Bernadette, Tyne, Lavin, Lupone, and McDonald

Christ, even I'm getting tired of Gypsy talk. Can we get some tea on the incoming shows? Is the dead guy show going to be this year's "Fun Home" and "Band's Visit" and sweep? Has Maybe Happy Ending run out of marketing steam? Will SMASH crash? Will BOOP poop? What have we heard? Who will survive?, Jake or Denzel? Can George Clooney act on stage?

And, most importantly, who's playing all the ghosts in Lincoln Center's Ghosts??

While, I've never had the privilege of seeing her perform, I've heard nothing but superlatives about Maureen Moore, her talent and how she frequently outshone the performer she was standing by for. There is something seriously wrong with the business when no producer, casting director agent or Maureen herself could not have found a way to get her a role that could make her a star. Sounds like she was a star anyway. I will say it speaks well of Bernadette Peters to have someone that good standing by for her.

Merman. I’ve only heard the closing night bootleg. She was legend for hit and miss nights, where she’d just phone it in. But on this night, she’s an absolute sensation. When I listen, I’m blown away by how FUNNY she was (it’s a hell of a book) and what a terrific dramatic performance she turns in. And of course, she blows the roof off the place.

Lupone. Jesus, was I disappointed.. She missed the humor and played it like a steamroller, like…well, like Patti. No nuance, no character growth. Just energy. She was exhausting to watch. She can belt to Mars, but she cannot act for shit. And she hasn’t been funny since “Anything Goes.” She actually started laughing maniacally during Roses Turn. Which, sure, a character choice. But a LAZY one — and one not at all supported by her …”characterization.” She basically just played herself. And we’d seen it all before. Plus, a. weird production. The smock!

Tyne was fine. Funnier than Lupone but not a third of the voice. Another sheer steamroller performance. Her Louise, Maureen Moore, was terrific. The production was on fire. The chorus and entire company were something. But this is the production that was originally offered to Liza. Allegedly. Also allegedly, when Liza sent her salary demand to the Weisslers, they were, allegedly, so shocked they never even responded. And went with Tyne instead. And we were all denied what was sure to have been the greatest musical comedy performance of our time. Not kidding. Liza would have burned it DOWN.

Peters!! Peters was a revelation. Funny, sexy, with a vulnerability that made Rose seem human (instead of the steamrollers we usually get). I saw her a few times and, like a true professional, she was always growing in the role. A revelation. Cast against type, she was refreshing and genuinely moving. She was saddled with a lousy production, but with great co-stars. She was my favorite Rose.

Until now. Audra is the most dynamic Rose I’ve ever seen. She is nailing the humor, the drama, and the music. She can’t belt. But we knew going in that we weren’t getting Merman. I’m not sure where Audra found this character, but she is thrilling. THRILLING.

We go into GYPSY knowing what to expect. I know this show better than any other show. And I was on the edge of my seat. I was laughing and applauding — and gasped more than once. It’s entirely surprising, fresh, tight, with an absolute star performance at its center. .

[quote]Her Louise, Maureen Moore

Oh dear, r92.

Crista. Crista Moore. Yes. My bad.

Speaking of, is Crista Moore still working?

Maureen...

Did Linda ever bless us with her Dolly, her Mame or her (pardon the expression) Fanny?

I'm shocked Linda never played Joanne in a major revival of Company.

A Little Night Maureen

[quote]I'm shocked Linda never played Joanne in a major revival of Company.

If only the Mr. Burt Reynolds Dinner Theatre had hung on a bit longer ....

R91, Maureen is one of the most talented ladies out there, but she had a melt/breakdown while standing by for Ebersole in Grey Gardens and I don’t know if she’s worked since. She’s married, no kids, and lives in CT.

She SHOULD have playing Adelaide in the Jerry Zaks Guys & Dolls. She apparently gave a brilliant series of auditions, but Zaks suddenly became convinced that Christine Ebersole was the perfect choice. Christine came in three times, and each time gave a worse audition (I was the audition reader for the last one. It was like she didn’t want to be there… at that time, she was convinced she was going to be a sitcom star). Then Jerry went to see Nick & Nora and fell in love with Faith Prince. Faith got a nose job, lipo and maybe a chin implant, and walked off with a Tony.

I never understood the acclaim FP got for that performance. I thought it was a giggly, “winky”, lowest common denominator kind of stock performance. I saw Victoria Clark go on for her and she blew Faith out of the water.

The only two things I ever thought she was really good in and didn’t use her trick voice were “A Man of No Importance” and “A Catered Affair”.

She was (IMO) rotten in “Bells Are Ringing”; not her fault - it was horribly directed, and “Little Me”. And starred in the hands down WORST play I’ve ever seen on Bway, “What’s Wrong with This Picture?”

[quote]r101 = but she had a melt/breakdown

That's sad. I hope she's okay.

I can see how Ebersole would look good on paper as Adelaide or Mame, but in practice...not so much. I can speak first hand about Mame.

What about Faith in The King & I?

I saw Maureen Moore as first replacement Fantine in Les Miz and she was great. There's a bootleg video out there of her and Dale Soules both on for the leads in Grey Gardens and Maureen is even better than Ebersole. Bernadette thanked her in her Tony speech for Song and Dance because Maureen went on quite a bit very early in the run and, when I saw her, got a standing ovation at the end of Act One from an audience that grunted and whined when it was announced she would be going on.

Somebody mention Dale Soules?

TRIVIA today’s kids need to know:

Lee Remick’s standby for WAIT UNTIL DARK was a performer named (for some reason) Dixie Marquis.

Carol & Dixie

Dixie in The Detective which starred Lee...and Sinatra.

[quote]I suspect “nailing” a line means playing it forcefully, with no consideration of character or subtext. And Audra is never going to do that.

No, if anything, Audra would go to the opposite extreme and play all of the subtext on the top. Like she did in PORGY AND BESS.

R96 - thanks for posting that. I'd never heard any of Maureen's Rose. She sounded GREAT. Also, God damn, was the music direction in the Bernadette revival sublime, or what? I assume Bernadette had something to do with her longtime MD, the recently departed Marvin Laird, being hired for this production. But, whatever the obvious connection to the leading lady may be, he proved himself a perfect choice. Whatever that production's faults, it's hard to deny that the 2003 production had the best sounding orchestra of all the revivals.

R99 - Also, damn, how did I never make the connection between that NY Opera Night Music and Maureen Moore, the "legendary understudy"? Until now, I didn't realize I HAD seen Maureen perform (via this recording.) She is an exquisite Charlotte -- absolutely nailing the part. A talented lady, for sure.

I love hearing about these great understudy performances. It generally takes a great deal of talent to fill that job and, as we know, with so little recognition. I was initially disappointed to find that Sarah Paulson was out of Appropriate the night I attended the show. If I recall correctly it was the first (perhaps only) performance of the Broadway run that she missed. Tina Benko, her understudy, was brilliant. You'd have thought she'd been playing the part 8 times a week for months. She was so in sync with the cast in a really substantial leading role.

I was similarly hailed.

That’s interesting that Ebersole was almost Adelaide. Also interesting that Faith Prince had surgery to look better for the role.

She doesn’t seem the type who would care about such things

I've never before heard that story about Faith Prince having plastic surgery to look better for the role of Adelaide, and it sounds very suspect to me.

I was aware that Faith had all that surgery, but I would question whether it was all done to audition and prepare for G&D. I wonder if some of it was done just before Nick & Nora.

R110. Sarah got sick after the Tony's so Tina got to go on a few more times. She's a brilliant actress.

There's a fun thread on the Broadway subReddit of best backstage drama. My favourite so far:

[quote]According to Sheryl, on opening night, Michael Bennett gave each of the “Dreams” a gift (Jennifer got Tiffany diamond earrings and Sheryl and Loretta Divine got brass belt buckles.)

Thanks for that link, R116. It includes a terrific summary of the debacle that was the 1997 Broadway revival of ANNIE, much of which I would say was the responsibility of that putz Martin Charnin.

R101 knows where the bodies are buried.

r101, don't be shy.. tell us what you know

The King & Faith

I ended up reading that backstage drama thread ... man, Sophia Anne Caruso really shot herself in the foot there.

R120, what accent is Faith using?

[quote]Amazed that so far nobody has mentioned that Sondheim and Laurents allegedly wanted Judy Garland to play Rose in the movie of Gypsy.

She was 40 at the time, so she would've been age-appropriate, unlike the many actresses who've portrayed her.

Garland would have been phenomenal in the film of GYPSY, and since I'm pretty sure the filming took place shortly after the triumph of her Carnegie Hall concert and the tour of that show, I'm surprised Jack Warner didn't say "all is forgiven" and hand her the role. But I guess he was quite a stubborn and ornery bastard.

Thanks for the link, R116. There’s some great gossip in there.

R124

I thought the story was no one would insure her

Sheryl Lee and Loretta were the standouts for me. I thought the show improved greatly when Holliday left.

OMG! Wicked made over $5 million last week!!!

Marc Platt and Stephen Schwartz hit a home run with the movie version. There's never been a movie version of a musical that helped a stage show to this extent. And they still have Pt. 2 next year to keep the money rolling in.

[quote] Sheryl Lee and Loretta were the standouts for me. I thought the show improved greatly when Holliday left.

But no one cared.

Holliday so dominated that she became the reason to go.

‘Wicked’ Has Highest Grossing Week in Broadway History

Wicked brought in a staggering $5 million last week, marking the highest weekly gross in history for any Broadway show.

That total, which was accumulated across nine shows last week, rather than the typical eight, is also a record for the show, which has been running on Broadway since 2003. The musical brought in $2 million more than the prior week and had an average ticket price of $290.61.

Many shows broke box office records last week, including The Outsiders, which broke the box office record for eight shows at the Bernard B. Jacobs Theatre for the tenth time. The musical brought in just over $2 million, with an average ticket price of $239.96. Elf The Musical also broke the box office record at the Marquis Theatre with a gross of $2.2 million.

I can take or leave A Christmas Carol (depending on the version), so I watched my DVDs of The Life and Adventures of Nicholas Nickleby over a few days this Christmas. It is *still* the best thing I've ever seen on any stage (I saw it in New York at the Plymouth in one day for the then-shocking price of $100 -- for eight hours of theater). Sadly, the filmed-for-television version is kind of a mess -- too many close-ups, odd editing choices, bad chapter breaks, etc. -- but, happily, it has the original staging and cast in all their glory. I started counting cast members who have since died but quickly stopped -- too sad, and it's ultimately a joyous show. (Hi, Valens, if you're still here!)

Now watching the 2008 TV version of Little Dorrit (it's on the Roku Channel). Also enjoyable, with lots of British actors I love.

Long ago, Broadway producers used to worry that the movie version would steal customers from the play, so they would stipulate that it not be filmed until the Broadway production closed. Now, the movie "Wicked" works as p.r. for the play and vice versa; at its peak, it seems the brand itself can't be over$old.

Regarding Annie, Joanna Pacitti went on to compete in American Idol but was disqualified for already having a record deal or something like that.

R130 I bet the producers of Gypsy are beside themselves that they were shut down for the biggest week

R132, the same thing happened with the movies of CHICAGO and even PHANTOM. Not really news at this point.

r131 (and everyone), that TV version of Little Dorrit is truly brilliant and what a cast. Enjoy!

Garland was also very much wanted to take over MAME after Lansbury. Another brilliant idea, but the producers couldn't trust her reliability. Probably a smart move. As for Rose, she would have been great, but would she have been a box-office draw?

r135- No the same thing did not happen for Chicago or Phantom. Wicked just set the Broadway record with $5 million for a 9 show week.

I looked it up. Chicago's average weekly gross in the year after the movie opened was $572,000. For Phantom, it was $722,000. Not exactly $5 million. So yeah, it's news.

R137 maybe Gary would have talked her out of it!

I think when Judy dropped out of AGYG as Ethel's vacation replacement it finished any chance she might have had in doing a book musical on Broadway. Can't blame the producers of Mame for not casting her.

Had no idea that ^^^ was the case.

There's a classic mlop post about Linda Lavin. mlop gets her dates all wrong, wanders off in the story that recalls JoAnn Worley giving mlop Linda's skirt, and refers to the country of Whales. Another poster suggests she give her bong another rinse through the dishwasher.

I just heard an interview with Nancy Olson, who seems to have specialized in standing right beside important entertainment events. She was (as movie and theatre queens but no-one else will know) Betty Schaefer in the movie of Sunset Boulevard, but I didn't know she went on to marry Alan Jay Lerner.

She said when they were writing MFL the creative team were stumped for a while on how to write a "tell us you're in love without admitting you're in love" song for Higgins. When the others left for the day, being a good wife she offered to get tea and cake for the dejected Lerner. As she came into the room with the tray, he said, "You're very pretty, you know." She said, "After all these years of marriage you've just noticed that?" He replied, "No, but I guess I've become accustomed to you." They looked at each other, eyes wide as they both saw it, and he hit the typewriter while she ran off to phone Fritz to come for dinner.

I'm sure there are people on here who already know that, but I offer it as a little New Year bonbon for anyone who didn't.

[quote]Garland was also very much wanted to take over MAME after Lansbury. Another brilliant idea, but the producers couldn't trust her reliability. Probably a smart move. As for Rose, she would have been great, but would she have been a box-office draw?

It should be incredibly obvious to anyone with a brain that trusting Garland in 1961 to be able to get through a movie shoot and give a brilliant performance as compared to being able to consistently show up and perform for eight shows a week on Broadway are two entirely different things. note remotely comparable. And if you're asking if Garland would have been a box office draw in the movie of GYPSY in 1962, that's an extremely stupid question.

I assume r141 meant that Judy might have subbed for Ethel Merman in the 1966 AGYG revival because Judy was at the height of her MGM film stardom during the original run.

But by 1966 Judy was certainly in no shape for 8 performances a week of a strenuous musical like AGYG or Mame. She barely had 3 years left to live and looked it.

I have never heard or read that Judy Garland was ever considered as a vacation replacement for Ethel Merman in either the original production or the 1966 revival of ANNIE GET YOUR GUN, and that sounds like nonsense to me.

Merman writes about it in her book. Judy was to sub for her during a six week vacation from the original production. Judy backed out and Merman's standby covered her vacation instead.

[quote]r144 = she went on to marry Alan Jay Lerner

Who *didn't*?

[quote]Merman writes about it in her book.

I don't remember that in her book.

Hard to believe MGM would have given Judy Garland prime time off to star in a Broadway show between 1946-49.

Though Judy Garland laid down the tracks for the movie version of “Annie Get Your Gun,” she never felt comfortable with the idea of playing an aggressive tomboy hoyden, and felt completely miscast. Producer Arthur Freed assured her people just wanted to hear her sing the terrific score, but she worried that she couldn’t carry it off. The hiring of Busby Berkeley to direct was merely the last straw as he was her least favorite director.

I received my tickets for the 2025 season of Encores! yesterday, and apart from moving curtain up to 7:30 (making it easier to get post-show reservations in that neighborhood) they replaced “The Wild Party” with “Wonderful Town,” which they did back in 2000 with Donna Murphy and Laura Benanti.

Since they must already have someone in mind, do we think it’s Sutton Foster they have lined up as Ruth in hopes of another Broadway run (sorry if this was discussed upthread already)?

I don’t believe Judy ever did a Bway show- night after night of doing a musical.

It’s hard for anyone to just start doing that when your life has been movies and concerts. Bette Midler did it for Dolly but anyone else?

And I meant to add in post 152 that all the bad associations with the movie would surely have precluded Garland even considering doing it onstage.

[quote]Hard to believe MGM would have given Judy Garland prime time off to star in a Broadway show between 1946-49.

In her book, Merman says Garland was hired to replace her "as a warm up for the film version, in which she was to play my part."

[quote]In her book, Merman says Garland was hired to replace her "as a warm up for the film version, in which she was to play my part."

That doesn't make any sense. As it was, she was in no shape to make the movie because of how overworked she was.

And I could be wrong, but I don't believe it's correct that Merman took a six-week vacation during the original run of ANNIE GET YOUR GUN.

Merman said she had two weeks vacation toward the end of her two-year contract with “Annie,” and spent part of that vacation in the hospital for minor surgery. Then Rodgers asked her to sign for another year, and she negotiated an additional six weeks of vacation to precede her third year because she was “bone tired” and wanted to spend time with her family. That’s when she said Garland was hired to replace her.

Merman's vacation replacement...

R158-Did Ethel play Miss Hannigan?

Mae Barnes, Lola Falana, Louis Gossett Jr , America Be Seated, 1964 World's Fair

Fifi

That Reddit thread WAS fun, but the problem with that Subreddit is that 90% of its regular posters are young teenage girls and 20-something and early 30-something women. Nothing wrong with that. Women are the backbone of theatre audiences and, let's be real, there wouldn't be an industry without that audience. But, yeah, they're all young women and so their idea of a "vintage" story will be the one about the 1997 Annie revival. Now, if that Subreddit were crawling with caftan-wearing eldergays it would REALLY juicy.

Patti and Nicole getting plastered on New Year's.

[quote]Did Ethel play Miss Hannigan?

Ethel Merman IS Annie

I'm there too bitch at r164!

There's just something about Cele Escola that I don't "get" ... or want.

R165, Merman annoys me

Who is the hottie next to Nicole at r164?

Garland had no box office clout in the early 60s. I COULD GO ON SINGING, CHILD IS WAITING, GAY PURR-EE, were all flops. JUDGEMENT AT NUREMBERG was a hit, but not because of her.

R169, I believe her bf

Garland's box office clout in GYPSY would almost certainly have been greater than in those other movies you mentioned, for obvious reasons.

Garland could never have done the Bway show. She didn’t have the discipline

I am surprised LuPone would invite a Trumpster (I have read the video is from LuPone's apartment)

Anderson Cooper mentioned on the NYE special that they were going to Lupone’s party afterwards

Audra was not invited

r163 But that thread didn't specify it was meant to be about "vintage" gossip. And this thread is crawling with caftan-wearing eldergays, so where's all the juicy vintage gossip then?

The idea of constant hookups among the Beauty and the Beast cast intrigues me.

You into beastiality?!🤬

Ethel's vacations documented on IBDB

I can't help but think that Patti's sudden support of Nicole is merely a slap in the face to Audra for supporting the Hell's Kitchen lady.

R181 LuPone is amazingly petty and I think u are right.

I think it’s interesting her former BFF Mia Farrow was nowhere to be found at the NYE party

R182-Maybe because it wasn't held in the Connecticut woods?

LuPone's embrace of Nicole is being masterminded by some of the SUNSET producers and press team to get voters to forget she's a Trumper. It may work.

I am not sure it has been established for certain that Nicole is a Trumper. As far as I know, she hasn't been clear on that subject.

Nicole is from Waianae, on the west side of Oahu. Many native Hawaiians live there, and lately, it's becoming a Republican stronghold. FYI, Tulsi Gabbard is also from Waianae.

Nicole Scherzinger seems like a person who would take satiric imitation as a compliment, that can be amusing at parties.

[quote] —Jennifer Holliday , legend!

Nowadays, Jennifer Holliday sounds like me imitating Jennifer Holliday.

[quote] Can't imagine Audra can do the same.

You have a very limited imagination. I can't believe someone would even suggest that Merman is in league with Audra McDonald. Sondheim said Audra's voice was "one of the glories of American theater."

Miss Merman will see your Sondheim, r189, and raise you a Porter, a Berlin and a Styne.

Merman always displayed the nuance of a foghorn

You didn't hire Ethel for nuance, r191. Her style was broad strokes.

[quote]R124 I'm surprised Jack Warner didn't say "all is forgiven" and hand her the role. But I guess he was quite a stubborn and ornery bastard.

A STAR IS BORN was not a financial success. Why should he throw good money after bad?

And few had patience for Garland’s fluctuating weight and shooting availability, which had made that film hell for everyone.

[quote] Miss Merman will see your Sondheim, [R189], and raise you a Porter, a Berlin and a Styne.

They didn't live to know Audra McDonald. No way would they have preferred Merman's voice to McDonald's. Merman was loud and clear which was its own advantage for utilitarian purposes but she was not like Streisand, Garland or McDonald.

You're *such* a little fangurl, r194.

Audra is a fine performer but, despite all those ridiculous Tonys, she's no Merman.

Merman is a legend and a real star.

Audra is...Audra. Talented but not dazzling. She's not a "Star". No one is seeking her out to headline in films. No one is doing Audra impressions. If Audra did a Disco album, absolutely no one care enough to even make fun of it.

Ironically, Audra is a bit....vanilla. Like a lot of her contemporaries like Sutton.

[quote] Ironically, Audra is a bit....vanilla. Like a lot of her contemporaries like Sutton.

She doesn't have contemporaries and Sutton Foster is certainly not one. You have an obvious bias. Those Tonys are a reflection of her distinctive talent as well as of the respect and admiration she commands.

[quote][R135]- No the same thing did not happen for Chicago or Phantom. Wicked just set the Broadway record with $5 million for a 9 show week.

You have to keep in mind that Broadway shows grossing over $1 million weekly is fairly recent and now very common.

Only WICKED, PHANTOM, and LION KING were doing that ten years ago, but no show was grossing close to $2 million, never mind $5 million.

20 years ago, absolutely no show was grossing over $1 million when the CHICAGO and PHANTOM movies came out.

In other words, inflation and soaring ticket prices.

[quote]No one is doing Audra impressions.

Because no-one can.

R198, what you say is true, but in those days you didn't have to sell your car to buy a ticket.

R200 Because no one wants to. #Yawn

[Quote] Merman is a legend and a real star. Audra is...Audra. Talented but not dazzling. She's not a "Star".

If Audra existed in that time of Bway legends, she would absolutely be one. If Merman existed now, no one would be doing impressions of her either.

Call me crazy, but when I think of great acting, whether someone is impersonating them or not doesn’t even factor in.

[quote]No one is doing Audra impressions.

Because no one in the audience would know who it was supposed to be and, outside of Broadway, only gay men would know if the impersonator said the name. Unlike........

The replacement Gypsy has been found!

Does Audra have much of a presence in London? Has she ever helmed a show there? I ask because I met a British actor i(mostly movies) n his mid-30s . I told him several weeks ago that I was about to see Audra at the New Yorker Festival, He had never heard of her. I was shocked.

She played the Palladium in 2022, which was broadcast in May this year. She did the R&H 80th anniversary special last year, which was broadcast this year. Maybe your friend is just out of the loop.

Sure, R208. She’s merely “talented”.

Here she is at the London Palladium. A star.

r209 - as someone who saw (and remembers) Audra Ann as the Ayah in the Secret Garden, you don't need to convince me. If I have a diva, she's the one.

Sorry, R 208. I meant that for R203. Referring to Audra as merely “talented” is to dismiss one of the artists of our time.

Certainly, she has 6 Tony Awards. Whatever. But they’re in the four different categories, lead and featured/supporting in both musicals and plays.

She’s every bit an actress as she is a singer — and, while that was clear in her performance as Billie Holiday, it’s even clearer in GYPSY. After seeing it (and I see it again mid-January), I knew I was seeing someone who was not only a star, not only an artist, but a great artist.

Does anyone do impressions of Meryl Streep? Does that make her any less of a legend?

Audra was scheduled to do her Billie Holiday play in London but got pregnant. The run was cancelled.

Agreed, r211. I have yet to see Gypsy, as I had tickets for last week. But I am regularly astonished by her intelligent, unexpected choices - the drunken entry in Lady Day and her truly ethereal last moment, her fierce knitting during New Music in Ragtime, her closing line of Ohio State Murders. She’s the real thing.

But that red dress at r209!!! Way too tight.

I'm a major admirer of both Merman and McDonald, but comparing them is pretty silly. They bring very different things to the table. Both are 1-of-a-kind careers, unparalleled by any of their peers'.

Just as it's impossible to imagine Merman in anything by LaChiusa or Guettel, it occurs to me to ask -- has McDonald sung anything by Cole Porter? Tellingly, the great Barbara Cook's vast repertoire included (as far as I know) exactly one Porter song -- "I've Got You Under My Skin," which she couldn't quite bend to her purposes.

[quote]I can't believe someone would even suggest that Merman is in league with Audra McDonald.

And I can't believe that you or anyone else would even compare these two, as they are so vastly different in terms of voice type, style of acting, etc. Comparing Ethel and Audra is even sillier than comparing apples to oranges, it's more like comparing apples to lamb chops.

I'm with R216.

I remember Audra on one of those Sondheim celebrations where the gimmick was that “Steve” chose each performer’s song. He gave Audra some patois tropical number and I remember her rolling her eyes when she introduced it.

Who exactly is Patti inviting to her parties?

Audra regularly comes to Ptown each summer. The year she was very pregnant, the fullness, richness, the power of her already amazing voice -- all those hormones, I guess -- was absolutely insane. The greatest concert of my life. Each song was a feast, and she has never sounded better. It was all the more hilarious because at the outset she talked about how she had to pee constantly so Will was on "stand by." So occasionally, she would suddenly say, "Will -- time to get out here" and she would waddle off to pee and he'd offer a song. Heaven. She's a legend for a reason. She always works for her audience.

It continually amazes me that so many people apparently do not understand how vastly less expensive theater tickets were in days gone by, and why, therefore, comparing the weekly grosses of shows today with shows 20 years ago is pretty much a waste of time.

Classy Audra story, R218. She hated it so much that she included it on her HAPPY SONGS album.

R219 He occasionally shows up in my Instagram feed as a suggested thirst trap. I've also seen him advertise on Rent Men. He's a whore, darlin'.

Patti knows that the silver fox breeds twitter randos and she doesn’t care. She’s actually nicer to generous tops than you would think!

R223, the guy with the white hair?

R216, excellent analysis

I guess it should come as no surprise that Patti might be chumming up with Sherzinger and supporting her publicly to reduce the chance McDonald walks away with another Tony for what Patti likely perceives as her role.

Reading this almost incomprehensibly stupid discussion in which someone is asserting that the number of queens attempting to impersonate a performer is what defines them as a star or "just a talented performer" brings to mind Fran L's assertion that AIDS took not only the most talented artists, but the discerning audience that supported them.

*

^^^^Well, R227, I think the point here is that there have always been some stars, especially in the old days, who like Merman became stars partly because they were so special, so distinctive, so immediately identifiable in terms of their personalities, voices, body language, looks, etc., But there has also always been another type of star -- Meryl Streep is a prime example -- who are more chameleonic, less quirky and distinctive, and create completely different characterizations for their various projects.

So these are two very different types of stars, but in my opinion, one type is not "better" than the other.

Pettiness among leading actors is totally fabricated. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have an Oscar to accept.

Whose will you be accepting this time, Joan?

R231 Well, I have reached out to that lovely bald actress with a bone through her nose. I hope to hear from her soon!

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1974, "Find Your Way Home" opened at the Brooks Atkinson Theatre.

Stars who are idiosyncratic get mimicked-- Merman and Channing are prime examples.

No one mimics Mary Martin. Does that make her less of a star?

Find...

Tyne sings Rose's Turn

[quote]No one mimics Mary Martin.

CHITA RIVERA on RITA MORENO — Diva on Diva

(with Sammy Davis, jr and Liza!!!)

^^^That's my point, 234. It doesn't make her less of a star. FWIW, I've seen and heard Marty Martin mimicked quite well by a few performers -- but it's worth noting that they were all women :-)

Sadly, Broadway doesn't produce legends anymore. Bway isn't part of pop culture any more

Not really true, R240. Broadway is still a significant part of pop culture, though a smaller part than in the early and mid 20th century. And the huge success of the WICKED film is only going to ensure that Broadway will maintain a strong foothold in pop culture.

All of that is a separate issue from whether or not Broadway produces legends anymore, which is a more complicated discussion.

And the huge success of the WICKED film is only going to ensure that Broadway will maintain a strong foothold in pop culture.

Not really…

[quote] And the huge success of the WICKED film is only going to ensure that Broadway will maintain a strong foothold in pop culture

Not sure the successful film will cause people to pay $300 for a Bway ticket...

In that case, R243, you're ignorant in general and also specifically ignorant of the fact that the Broadway production of WICKED grossed about $5 million dollars last week. Which is unheard of even in recent times at inflated prices and even during the holidays, and therefore must mean that a very large percentage of those WICKED tickets sold for $300 each or more.

That Tyne clip helped me remember how good she was. I put that Turn as second only to Lansbury's.. (Didn't see Merman.)

Someone ask Theoni V. Aldredge why Tyne is wearing that outdated flapper dress and pearls in 1939?

Tyne acted the hell out of the role, but her singing was only adequate. Lansbury could do it all.

Yes, Tyne is indeed fantastic in that clip. I think her only miscalculation is that the speaks rather than sings a few lines in the "Why did I do it?" section and after that, but otherwise it's a great performance. And major props to her for maintaining the "thousand/bows and" rhyme, which even Merman didn't do :-)

[quote] Tellingly, the great Barbara Cook's vast repertoire included (as far as I know) exactly one Porter song -- "I've Got You Under My Skin," which she couldn't quite bend to her purposes.

Cook was not a fan of Porter's. She said so once in an interview, without actually naming him, when asked whether there were any famous composers whose songs she refused to sing. It was clear that she was talking about Porter.

And she got the chins she deserved.

"Not a fan" and "refused" make it sound as if Cook hated Porter, which I doubt. I imagine that she simply realized that his songs were by and large uncongenial *for her as a performer*.

r246...

[quote]Gypsy Rose Lee made her debut in burlesque in Kansas City in 1929. Within two years she was the headliner at Billy Minsky's Republic Theatre on Broadway.

Right, I believe the show takes place from the early 20s to the early 30s.

[quote]r247 = Lansbury could do it all.

Don't forget her high kicks in Together. Angie was an actress who sang...*and* danced. Because of her, Mame is a triple threat role and nobody since has been able to navigate it as successfully. They're always missing a threat...or two.

I loved MAME as a kid but fear that if I watch it now, the book will seem as stupid as Hello, Dolly’s does

MAME's book just doesn't hold up, r255. I've known that since I worked on a production in 1985. Hello Dolly *does* hold up if you can successfully capture its whimsical charm. It goes back to the original properties. The Matchmaker and Auntie Mame are very different in tone and style.

I'm sure we could all name several Cole Porter songs, especially his ballads, that would have been very well suited to Cook's voice and style, even while agreeing that many of them would not have been.

She does Let's Do It quite charmingly.

[quote]R257 I'm sure we could all name several Cole Porter songs, especially his ballads, that would have been very well suited to Cook's voice and style

This one is so beautiful.

I'll take Frances' first recording...

[quote]They're always missing a threat...or two.

Or like Lina Lamont --- all three!

R239. There was a very funny (I thought) number on one of the Forbidden Broadway albums that had Ethel Merman and Mary Martin do the counterpoint duet “An Old-Fashioned Wedding” (from the Granny Get Your Gun revival). The Merman was very good, but very much in keeping with the imitations done by hundreds of gay men and straight women, though the performer did capture some of Merman’s less well-known idiosyncrasies of phrasing, rhythm, and intonation in very canny ways. But the Martin was even more impressive, because Martin is so less frequently imitated and was less in the public eye in later years (no doubt “down” in Brazil with Janet), other than the occasional Tonys appearance. The performer captured Martin’s recognizable vocal quality (a bit nasal, “sunny,” “girlish), the leap from alto to a soprano an octave higher (more operetta), and some of the Texas vowels that show up from time to time. Martin’s instrument was always variable in technical skill (and by “Jennie” and “I Do, I Do,” you can hear her straining for notes—was she a smoker or just out of practice by then), but, at her best, her singing had a warmth, depth, and heart Merman’s clarion voice only occasionally touched. Martin was a gifted actress—I read somewhere that Kazan thought of her for Blanche du Bois (Williams thought of Lillian Gish—neither would have gotten the range of Blanche, but you can see which parts of Blanche would have succeeded with—Martin the flirt and Gish the spinster).

[quote]r262 = and Gish the spinster

Lillian was capable of Camille...hardly a spinster.

We're talking about Lilian Gish in Camille now??

Audra owns the role of Camille.

[quote]r262 Williams thought of Lillian Gish

That’s a dreary idea. Lillian Gish was 54 when STREETCAR opened. Any drop of sex appeal she ever had was long since dried up.

I do think she was underused in that era, though.

Predictions for 2025.

[quote]1. Ticket Prices Will Continue to Rise. The Broadway League recently released eye-watering numbers for ticket sales during the week of Christmas, and I fully expect that the week of New Year’s Day will prove just as bountiful once it concludes on Sunday the 5th. While the top earners are all playing to capacity (and in some case, over-capacity) houses, the giant total numbers are undoubtedly boosted by another factor: record-high ticket prices. Yes, Wicked brought in over $5 million last week, but the average paid admission to get into the Gershwin Theatre was $290.61—the very highest on Broadway. Theater tickets are beginning to surpass airfare to many destinations, with premium tickets well into the business class range. The most expensive ticket on Broadway last week was the Kit Connor-led revival of Romeo + Juliet at $974.50.

The name I read that Mr. Williams originally submitted for Blanche was Pamela Brown. She was an English actress and I don’t know how she got on his radar. She played Gwendolyn in “The Importance of Being Ernest” on Broadway in early 1947. Maybe he saw that?

R223, could you please post a link to the white haired thirst trap/ male escort on IG? The X link isn’t working for me, most likely because I deleted it months ago. Thanks,

I gotta say seeing Tyne Daly in the clip above, she doesn’t seem very good to me, rushes through the lines, though I remember liking her the night I saw her in it.

Prefer Roz Russell, frankly, even with Lisa Kirk dubbing her high (or was it low?) notes.

Also Russell had that fabulous Orry-Kelly outfit in dramatic black and white. Why do all the Rose’s look so dowdy in “Rose’s Turn”? Gypsy has been making money hand over fist and has presumably been giving her mother some, is perhaps supporting her by this time, so why wouldn’t she be dressing better? Wearing a chic, drop dead oitfit would be more theatrical.

Catherine O'Hara can do ANYONE.

Even The Streep.

Or, if not O'Hara then Andrea could do them.

Her divine take on Bernie.

Ethel Merman's "Wake Up and Love Me."

We were there!

On the Broadway/Reddit community, there's an interesting post about producer Garth Drabinsky. While it certainly rings true, somebody thought it was written by ChatGPT. Given the lack of real gossip on this site lately, perhaps we should consider some ChatGPT-generated posts.

Well, I followed through, and here's some ChatGPT -generated Broadway gossip:

1. The “Moulin Rouge!” Drama

Everyone’s talking about Moulin Rouge!—but not just the show. Rumor has it, there’s some major behind-the-scenes tension between the lead cast members. Word on the street is that two of the stars (both major heartthrobs) have been at odds ever since a particularly flirty on-stage number got way too real off-stage. It’s been a slow burn, but don’t be surprised if someone swans off to greener pastures soon.

2. Broadway's New Golden Age?

The Tony-winning show Hadestown might be a huge hit, but insiders have revealed that some of the production team has grown frustrated with how much the show’s composer, Anaïs Mitchell, is taking the credit for the success. They’re saying the orchestrators and the choreographers are doing just as much to keep the show fresh—and Anaïs is riding high on the acclaim a little too much for their liking.

3. "The Phantom" Reboot—A Love Triangle?

There are whispers that the casting process for the upcoming Phantom of the Opera reboot has led to some interesting dynamics behind the scenes. A source (who loves a good cocktail) claims that the lead male role is down to two suitors: one a seasoned star with a reputation for being a bit of a diva, and the other a much younger, very ambitious actor who has already made some waves on the Broadway scene. There’s talk of a very unresolved love triangle brewing, with a lot of passive-aggressive tension and whispered conversations at the bar. Who’s going to get the role—and who’s going to be left out in the cold?

4. Broadway's “Bad Boy” Back in Town

One Broadway veteran, known for his good looks and bad-boy charm, has been seen around town recently with a mysterious new man—and people are already gossiping about whether he’s back on the market or if he’s really found someone who can tame him. Known for a string of flings with younger actors (and maybe some not-so-young actors too), sources say he’s notorious for playing with hearts, but he’s never had any problems landing a great part. Sigh—he’s definitely someone to keep an eye on.

5. The Hairspray Shake-Up

The revival of Hairspray on Broadway was supposed to be a lighthearted, feel-good affair, but backstage there’s been nothing but tension. A few months into the run, a major shake-up occurred when a lead actor was suddenly replaced, allegedly after a very public outburst during a rehearsal. The replacement came with a lot of drama—rumors swirl that the star was “acting out” because of a secret relationship with one of the understudies. Did jealousy rear its ugly head in the dressing room? Well, let’s just say some of the chorus members were whispering about things getting a little too close for comfort.

6. “The Cher Show” Cast Drama

The Cher Show might have closed its Broadway run a while ago, but the gossip still lingers. One performer, who was initially the darling of the show, was seen having a huge falling-out with one of the producers. Word on the street is that it had to do with unfortunate costume choices and a jealous rivalry between two of the actresses vying for the coveted spotlight. The drama was so intense that the producers reportedly tried to cover it up by casting a new understudy—but even the understudy ended up spilling the beans in a recent tell-all. Seems like not all the Cher characters were getting along!

7. Hamilton’s “Ghost” Returns?

Could Lin-Manuel Miranda be plotting a return to Hamilton—but not in the way you think? Some insiders are teasing that Lin’s ghost is haunting the production in a surprising new way. Apparently, he’s been casually meeting with creatives about taking a more active role in the direction of the national tours—especially with rumors of some cast members not living up to the level of excellence that the original production set. People say it’s a matter of time before Miranda makes a dramatic appearance on stage again, much to the dismay of the current stars who may not be too keen on sharing the limelight.

8. Bette Midler’s Last Hurrah on Broadway?

The ultimate Broadway diva, Bette Midler, has been quietly talking about stepping away from the spotlight after her “Hello, Dolly!” run, but sources say she’s eyeing one last show—and it’s going to be a big one. Though nothing is confirmed, insiders have hinted that she’s been holding secret meetings with some major producers about starring in a Broadway-bound musical that would require a lot of fabulous costumes and even more drama. Will this be the grand finale we’ve all been waiting for?

any clue who the "bad boy" described in r276 is? Has to be a middle aged gay actor with a few Broadway credits.

[quote]Everyone’s talking about Moulin Rouge!

Wrong right off the bat.

Saw Sigourney in The Tempest in London. She might have been good in another production but Jamie Lloyd's minimalism does neither she nor the play any favors.

[quote]Because no one in the audience would know who it was supposed to be and, outside of Broadway, only gay men would know if the impersonator said the name.

Apparently R205 has never heard of The Good Fight or The Gilded Age. Not everyone knows Audra McDonald can sing, but you bet your ass most people know who she is.

They don't know her name. They would like, " Oh, that's her?"

[quote]Saw Sigourney in The Tempest in London. She might have been good in another production but Jamie Lloyd's minimalism does neither she nor the play any favors.

That Sigourney Weaver's a sweet girl, but she really shouldn't go without makeup.

Wasn't Bette talking about wanting to play Mame? If so, I'm up for it.

I don’t understand the point of Signourney doing this.

1) a celebrated, honored career in the twilight

2) a critically panned performance in a small, London theatre that will be the memory of her stage career.

R284 Bette turns 80 years old this year. Her sliding down a staircase bannister at 80 years old nightly, at the Winter Garden theatre would be considered elder abuse

Vanessa Williams' mother has passed away at 85. Very sad news.

R282, if people knowing someone's name is the criterion for fame, you're Very 20th century. Unless you're Taylor Swift, Beyonce, a sports star or an influencer nobody will know your name, because nobody commits anything to memory any more.

They will all have recognition, but it will be, "Oh, you know, the one who was the mother in The Gilded Age", or "The one who's married to Ryan Reynolds"--it won't be by name unless you strike an actual fandom, aka online stalker community where they also know the star's first pet and mother's middle name. Boomers and Xs don't have the storage capacity any more, and the young ones know they can google everything so they don't bother to learn anything. (In case you haven't noticed this.)

Granted, not many people beyond Broadway would recognise an *impersonation* of Audra (though she does fill places like the London Palladium and the biggest hall in the Sydney Opera House without difficulty), but it's because unlike Merman she hasn't done movie musicals and TV variety shows. That's the only reason Judy, Ethel, Carol Channing and Liza were readily recognisable. The same people who wouldn't recognise an impersonation of McDonald wouldn't recognise same of Verdon, LuPone, Peters or Cheno either. Everyone and his dog would recognise an impersonation of Idina Menzel because of Frozen, but most people would join John Travolta in not having a clue what her name is.

Just for good measure, I wouldn't recognise an impersonation of Taylor Swift, either, not because I haven't seen her but because she's too bland to caricature.

[quote] Saw Sigourney in The Tempest in London. She might have been good in another production but Jamie Lloyd's minimalism does neither she nor the play any favors.

Let me guess--she wore a black nightgown splattered in blood...

She’s saving that for Calpurnia in her upcoming production of Julius Caesar.

What is this about tension backstage at the Hairspray revival?

WHAT Hairspray revival?

Can’t you tell that chat was all generated about old shows? Not fresh material!

Do they not teach reading comprehension in schools anymore?

The Drury Lane is hardly "a small, London theatre"..

r293 Sigourney is probably wishing it was

It's almost a week old, but I think posters will enjoy this Guardian article about her and Jamie Lloyd.

[quote]Perhaps the most damning line last week – and I agreed with every syllable – came from the critic Fiona Mountford in the i: “Unforgivably, this is theatre as those who don’t go dread that it will be”.

And the Lloyd gimmick this time round?

[quote]In The Tempest, Lloyd’s attempt at minimalism means that his actors aren’t even provided with props essential to their plot twists. A group of buffoons are distracted from treason by a wardrobe full of flashy clothes – but you wouldn’t know this, if you’re struggling with the language, because the characters are reduced to miming their discovery of empty air. Perhaps, like his actors, this emperor has no clothes.

Poor Sigourney! What a humiliation. Luckily for her, Maltby didn't mention how she was also dismissed (during rehearsals) from a Circle in the Square MACBETH way back in 1982.

A clip of Bernie from waaaaay before her ingenue days is making the rounds on social media.....

R287 sad news. I like VW and I know she was very close to her mom.

Good ole Sigourney Weaver had the distinction of being the first person to lose the Oscar twice in one evening. Usually if nominated in both categories, the person won for supporting.

Julianne Moore later did the same thing when she lost for the Hours and Far From Heaven

Scarlett Johansson just did it with Marriage Story and Jojo Rabbit.

But Weaver was the first when I bested her!

Is The Tempest Jamie Lloyd's first flop?

Depends

Geena dear, Sigourney didn't achieve the "distinction" you mention until later that evening, when Jodie Foster won for THE ACCUSED. Nice try. Should I call MENSA?

I can't say I enjoyed Wild Party, but I certainly appreciated what everyone was doing up there (including the designers). I certainly remember Toni Collette's Broadway *star* wattage.

R298 don't forget me in 1993!

Nominated for Best Actress ("Remains of the Day") and Supporting Actress ("In the Name of the Father").

But lost to both Holly Hunter and Anna Paquin from "The Piano."

I know trigger warnings get mocked on here, buuuut... trigger warning: Linda Lavin's widow shares details on her last moments. It's quite emotional.

R304 what a bizarre thing. Has another spouse of a dead minor celebrity ever filmed a video of a play by play for how dead minor celebrity died?

[quote]Linda Lavin's widow

Oh, dear.

Yes, the video is somewhat grandstand-ish, but he seems sincere.

Norman took a wife?

Just a few hours until the last performance of the Elf engagement. Tomorrow, Suffs and Back to the Future wrap with their matinees.

I have a question people here might know the answer to.

Judith Light was the first to win 2 consecutive Emmys (for OLTL) back in the 70s.

Then she won two consecutive Tonys for the same category (supp actress in a play), in the early 2000s.

Does Light hold some type of distinction for having done this? Has anybody else done this twice or more?

**(should read) first to win two consecutive DAYTIME Emmys.

Do you think Patti LuPone will get a Kennedy Centers Honor next year?

R312, does she even qualify for one?

[quote]The Kennedy Center Honors are annual honors given to those in the performing arts for their lifetime of contributions to American culture.

The White House gets a say in who is named for a KCH..you be the judge. On the other hand, Trump himself could not care any less.

He'll probably give himself one.

The greatest entertainer evah! King of the hill. Top of the heap.

Bernadette will get one before Patti does. If Patti ever does.

I don't know why the Kennedy Center Honors have been so stingy in honoring Broadway artists in recent years, not only performers but writers, composers and directors, too. Stephen Schwartz, for example would have been a prime candidate this year, considering the huge success of Wicked.

And if that's true about the WH having a say in who's honored, I'd like to see documentation on that assertion. I highly doubt it.

If you don’t get that KCHs are somewhat tailored to the “taste” of the incumbent —then I can’t help solve for your basic ignorance. Try Google…

Kid Rock, this is your time!

Dump had nothing to do with the celebrities honored at the Kennedy Center the last time he spent 4 years meandering around the WH. Why would he care now?

I really don’t think Patti will get one. Too many enemies

[quote]Kid Rock, this is your time!

And Scott Baio, Kevin Sorbo, Antonio Sabato Jr. and The Village People.

r322 Don't forget me!!!!

Laura Osnes, come on down!

Laugh, you fools, but you got it wrong!

Enjoy your "woke-ness" because you haven't got long.

Sorry, R325, but anyone using the word "woke" must be immediately kicked in the balls.

Inflation has not gone up nearly 10 times. Chicago made almost $600,000 per week that year. That does not compare to $5 million now. At all. So many idiots in this thread,

Also- just because prices go up, doesn’t mean people will pay them. Making $5 million in a week is record setting no matter how you look at it.

I have a feeling that Audra McDonald will get a KCH before Patti. She's won more Tonys.

R288- I’m on the Audra isn’t a star boat but she did B&B movie and SOM TV broadcast.

KCHs are only given to people willing to attend the ceremony. It's possible that some of these non-recipients just aren't interested.

Also, some celebrities won't attend if there's a president in office they dislike. Mel Brooks was offered it several times when Bush was president, but turned it down. He said, "I didn't like what they were serving for dinner."

You made that up^

Streisand held out until Obama

I thought Streisand got it under Bush, no?

No, she purposely held out until there was a Dem president. It happened in 2008, the first year of Obama’s presidency

2009 was the first year of Obama's presidency.

R336, holy shit, you’re right!

How weird that I got this all mixed up!! I mist have considered when it was televised vs when it was actually bestowed

Here she is boys...here she is world...here's Connie!

Random thought - I remember when Ann Margret fell of a stage in Vegas and broke her face.

Hmmm. I don't know if this counts but I remember a onetime popular thread about Ann Wilson crashing through a stage. Fiction, but inspiring.

Congestion pricing starts today. It took long enough. If it reduces the amount of fucking tour buses in midtown then it will be worth it. With prices the way they are on Broadway I doubt the $9 will make a dent in theatergoers’ budgets.

R288 "The same people who wouldn't recognise an impersonation of McDonald wouldn't recognise same of Verdon, LuPone, Peters or Cheno either. Everyone and his dog would recognise an impersonation of Idina Menzel because of Frozen, but most people would join John Travolta in not having a clue what her name is."

You couldn't be more wrong.

If you're talking about just any random moe off the street, no, they're not going to probably recognize any impersonation of any of those mostly theatrical stars, including Menzel who you say WOULD be recognized due to Frozen but....she's just a voice. It's a cartoon. So, Joe Blow isn't going to recognize anyone doing a physical impersonation of her.

And, a successful impersonation is based on one of two things (or both): does the person look like and/or sound like the star being impersonated.

Now, if you're talking actual fans of musical theater, (which there are many) then someone doing a good impersonation of all these possiibilities could probably recognize them if the impersonator had any talent for it. People still go see productions of Forbidden Broadway and enjoy such impersonations all the time.

The only one I'd argue that would be tough would be.....Audra. Not because she's untalented but she doesn't have ANYTHING unique to snag an impersonation on. She's an attractive woman with an amazing voice and a very talented actress but she's not blessed with an unusual look, style, voice, or personality.

Verdon had a look and that wavery voice and those Fosse moves; Lupone is the braying fishwife; Peters is America's kewpie doll; Chenoweth is a perky chirpy little country gal; Menzel is exotic ethnic with the braying voice...all of them got something to play with or at least a key role or two or three you can emphasize. What are you going to do, to "do" Audra? Go on stage eating a Chipotle bowl? Not show up for your performance? She's got all those Tonys but they're mostly for revivals. She originated Sarah in Ragtime but that's not really an "aha!" moment for anyone trying to entertain an audience with an Audra impersonation.

Again, Audra is super talented and has a lot of fans. Gorgeous voice. Strong actress (really, she's probably the best thing on The Gilded Age, acting wise). But, despite all that and all those Tonys and other awards and success, she's never quite ascended to icon status. She has no "hook" other than being very very good.

R338 how weird. I just watched that movie for the first time last night. It’s on the Criterion channel. It certainly is unique!

Connie interview...

[quote]The only one I'd argue that would be tough would be.....Audra. Not because she's untalented but she doesn't have ANYTHING unique to snag an impersonation on. She's an attractive woman with an amazing voice and a very talented actress but she's not blessed with an unusual look, style, voice, or personality.

I think the way in which Audra very frequently switches back and forth between an operatic soprano sound and a raw belt sound is very unusual if not unique, so any successful vocal impersonation of her would have to include that.

Are Carol & Hugh a couple??

Connie was bald in her second Sam Fuller movie!

R346. Wouldn't surprise me at all.

Connie was a spectacularly great Julie in Showboat at Lincoln Center.

[quote]r347 Connie was bald in her second Sam Fuller movie!

Why don’t you SHOW IT? [italic]Show it all!

[Quote] The only one I'd argue that would be tough would be.....Audra. Not because she's untalented but she doesn't have ANYTHING unique to snag an impersonation on.

Basically, she doesn’t have a schtick

[quote]Basically, she doesn’t have a schtick

You gotta have a gimmick........ Bernadette plays kewpie doll ( a few years younger she could star in Betty Boop) and Patti is unintelligible.

Yeah, Audra’s career certainly has been limited by her lack of “a schtick.”

R354, actually, her career flourished because she doesn't have a schtick. This is specifically why she can play Rose without most people even blinking an eye

DL faves Barbara Cook and Margaret Hamilton(!) played alongside Connie in that revival of Show Boat.

Isn't it interesting how Magnolia's two solo are a reprise, and an interpolated period song?

R356 Barbara Cook complained that during that show she realized what a bad role Magnolia is. She is the “lead” but everyone only cares about Julie (who gets the best numbers)

That Cook/Powers SHOW BOAT recording, though incomplete, was the one most of us eldergays grew up with and adored. I still listen to it. And it's still my preferred version, even more so than the thorough 2 CD version John McGlinn did with opera singers Frederika Von Stade and Teres Stratas.

They were no Renata Tebaldi.

She makes a guy feel good.

Orchestra

À propos the McGlinn SHOW BOAT, EMI actually paid Judy Kaye to sit in a London hotel room, ready for action if Teresa Stratas cancelled.

R362 I would have preferred Judy Kaye to Stratas

My favorite Julie is Lonette McKee

McKee was gorgeous on stage, as, of course, was her amazing voice

Looking at McKee's Wiki, she's only done sporadic work in TV and film

Towers' performance of "Bill" got encore after encore in its early performances in New York. By the time it toured (I saw it in Detroit) the encores were built in, and audiences expected to keep calling her back.

Stratas is fine in the songs on the McGlinn SHOW BOAT, if you like that kind of voice in the role, but I really don't like her delivery of the dialogue.

African-American cotillion ball sequence being shot for The Gilded Age today and tomorrow up in Sleepy Hollow. Wouldn’t Audra McDonald be in that? I wonder if she’ll be in Gypsy tomorrow night.

I know it's more opera than theatre, but I LOVED Teresa Stratas in Weill's 7 Deadly Sins. She sings it exquisitely.

R368. They might start very early and shoot Audra's stuff first so she can get back to the city by late afternoon.

Gypsy is dark on Mondays so Audra wouldn't have to be back in town until late afternoon on Tuesday.

I’m aware of that, R371, which is why I only asked if she’d miss tomorrow night’s performance.

Reading us fundamental. Look into it.

With this mixed-race cast of "Gypsy", is it time to say what type of milk Caroline the Cow makes?

As played by S Porkalob: 2% (Moo-Moo. Moo.-..) As played by Alice Ripley and Emily Skinner: Half & Half As played by Marin Mazzie: Mothers As played by that kind young man who wrote "Brave New World, and played the lead in "Toxic Avenger": Sweet Acidophilus Produced by Elon Musk: 1% (With added Vitamin K, and none for you) Produced by Garth the Drab.: Skim.

Not Boq. He is lack-toes intolerant.

Yes, I've become my Dad. Pull my finger.

Apropos of The Gilded Age I hear from insiders that Julian Fellowes has been even more impossible to deal with this season and won't take writing advice from anyone. Many of the producers are hoping this will be the last season.

Curious if anyone has read the well-reviewed and bestselling novel The Frozen River by Ariel Lawhon.

I think it's about a midwife in 18th century America. I bought it for a week's business trip with lots of train time and down time. Hoping for the best. Looks promising but you can never tell with bestsellers, I find.

Ooops, sorry, meant that for our book thread.

R368 and R372

I wasn't criticizing your original post. I was only clarifying your vague wording.

Not sure why it was necessary for you to be a cunt about it.

Julian Fellowes is the luckiest twat who ever lived. He's a hack writer who had the very good fortune to have Altman as a director on his only hit. Altman is well known for using his screenwriter's work as a general guide for actually filming. The actors and Altman create the final product. But, the ghastly Fellowes got the Oscar while Altman never won a competitive Oscar. Downton Abbey is ridiculous crap (but proof that Gosford Park's greatness had to have had come from someone else than Fellowes) and every other piece of Fellowes writing is shit. Not surprising he's being a prat on The Gilded Age which is more ridiculous trash.

How can you forget Julian Fellowes Broadway Musical landmark "School of Rock -- The Musical."

R379 I'm blessed. I've managed to avoid seeing it. I have however suffered through his lousy book for Mary Poppins.

[quote]African-American cotillion ball sequence being shot for The Gilded Age today

There were no "African-Americans" in the 19th century.

Fuck you, R381. I was there!!!

Quiet, Aunt Di!

R377: Totally agree with you. I don’t really care when Audra may or may not make her way back to NYC but the absolute unnecessary and unwarranted cuntitude of R:372 was breathtaking even for the cunts of DL.

[quote]Reading us fundamental. Look into it.

You might want to look into spelling.

[quote]r364 McKee was gorgeous on stage, as, of course, was her amazing voice

I love this:

I agree that McKee is gorgeous and has a beautiful voice. But this current trend of casting black actresses as Julie in Show Boat makes no sense, since she is supposed to be passing as white.

Oh Jesus Christ "current" ? McKee first played the roll forty fucking years ago.

Lonette McKee performs the best rendition of Bill I've ever heard. I know, it's one of my favorite songs ever written and I've heard many renditions.

[quote]McKee first played the roll

Dinner or Parker House?

in the pit

Anybody know who will be replacing Caroline Bowman when she leaves SB for SMASH? She'll be on as Norma this Sunday with Mandy on for the rest of the week while Nicole is on vacation.

[quote] I agree that McKee is gorgeous and has a beautiful voice. But this current trend of casting black actresses as Julie in Show Boat makes no sense, since she is supposed to be passing as white.

McKee is light skinned so could pass as white. She was perfect casting.

She coukd pass for Cuban in the film Cuba. But as white? No.

On stage, she can certainly "pass". She's very light skinned and she's perfect for the role.

Trying to suggest the role shouldn't be played by a black actress is ridiculous...especially in this day and age.

I think you should write Lonette a strongly worded letter, r394. That might make you feel better.

But not if she's black – black

Good one R390, maybe it's time for me to stop posting in the morning.

I've only seen Lonette McKee in clips and excerpts online, but she seemed like such a gifted musical actress. I know this business is cruel and fickle, but any thoughts on why she didn't do more? If Wikipedia is to be believed, she's a theatre professor at a small college these days. Another one like this is Loretta Ables Sayre. Her Blood Mary in the LCT South Pacific revival was incredible and... then... nothing. It looks like she still works in Hawaii, so perhaps, in her case, she wanted to go back home and valued that more than a Broadway career.

She played Bloody Mary again at a regional theater in FL about 10 years ago.

My friends and I were introduced to and enamored of Lonette in 1976...

The best rendition I've ever heard of "Bill" is by Kate Baldwin. Truly rips your heart out. I wish I was clever enough to post a link but perhaps someone will.

[quote]On stage, she can certainly "pass". She's very light skinned and she's perfect for the role.

Agreed that McKee was absolutely perfect casting for that reason, on top of her beauty and talent.

[quote]Trying to suggest the role shouldn't be played by a black actress is ridiculous...especially in this day and age.

No, the role cannot credibly be played by a darker-skinned performer who is obviously African-American, because it's absolutely essential to the plot that everyone on the show boat is shocked when it's revealed that Julie is actually black -- or rather, as specified in the script, she is mixed race, having had a black mother and a white father (if I recall the script correctly).

R403, and McKee is light skinned so problem solved!

^^^^Yes, as previously noted, that's one reason why she was so perfect for the role.

[quote]R388 McKee first played the roll

[quote]R390 Dinner or Parker House?

Is it racist to suggest she’d make a scrumptious cinnamon roll?

Loretta Ables Sayre played Bloody Mary in the South Pacific reunion concert a few weeks ago.

The point is, in 2025 you can't have a white actress play that role. It's pretty unlikely we're going to see many more revivals of Show Boat anyway partly due to casting problems like this but it's also tonally a tough show to do now...and because of the huge cast, it's just too expensive to mount .

r409, there are millions more mixed-race people being born every day so I'm not sure your theory, at least on casting Julie, will hold in years to come.

Also, have to say, when you look back on some of the infamous past casting of mixed-race people who are passing as white, for example Jeanne Crain in the film Pinky, it seems just as dishonest. No way that girl was anything but whiter than white. I suppose with Ava Gardner and Susan Kohner you could almost believe one of their parents was Black.

Death Becomes Her canceled today's matinee due to illness. I know Megan has been out. Maybe there's a bug circulating backstage.

Been seeing Broadway shows since I was a kid. Never heard of cancelled shows. That's what understudies are for. So now instead of "The Show Must Go On"...it's just ahhh fuck it.

[quote] Death Becomes Her canceled today's matinee due to illness. I know Megan has been out. Maybe there's a bug circulating backstage.

but we won't go crazy about it because it isn't Audra and Gypsy

[quote] Been seeing Broadway shows since I was a kid. Never heard of cancelled shows. That's what understudies are for. So now instead of "The Show Must Go On"...it's just ahhh fuck it.

I wonder if the producers are realizing it's more profitable to refund tickets (so patrons have to buy more expensive tickets for future performances). than to exchange tickets.

r413 Because the "show must go on" bullshit didn't have any negative effects for performers and their health at all

I assume its more than just Megan Hilty who's sick

So, when it was Gypsy cancelling shows due to illness, there were posters suggesting that only Audra was ill and producers were lying that others were also ill to cover up for her, and even one suggesting the illness didn't even exist; but now it's another show everyone's suddenly sympathetic and understanding?

Megan is not a star on the caliber of Audra. She hasn't had the career, and she's never created a role in a successful show. They shouldn't be cancelling. The understudies should be going on. Something is off.

Someone on Reddit in the rush queue said they were told Jennifer Simard and Michelle Williams were both out, and they weren't sure if Megan would be in.

DBH canceled tonite. They had no problem putting understudies on for both leads a few weeks ago so it might be multiple absences causing the cancellations.

Lots of tickets available for Sunset Boulevard this week while Nicole is on vacation. I doubt it will continue without her.

I'm with you, R410. Vanessa Williams is only one other example of someone who might have been excellent casting as Julie in her younger days.

[quote]DBH canceled tonite. They had no problem putting understudies on for both leads a few weeks ago so it might be multiple absences causing the cancellations.

You're probably right. Thanks for the valuable reminder that both leads have already had understudies go on for them.

R423 Garth pursued her for the revival that Lonette McKee did, but she chose Kiss of a Spiderwoman instead.

She finally played the role in 2015 in a concert staging in New York and was….fine.

Thanks, R425. I actually saw that concert with Vanessa as Julie and had forgotten it, which I guess is not a good sign :-) Although I like her, Vanessa is not the most dynamic performer and needs to be carefully cast to come across well. But what I meant was that I think she's very credible casting for Julie in terms of it being believable that Julie has been passing as a white woman.

Earthy isn't in Vanessa's wheelhouse, r426.

While Vanessa is gorgeous, she doesn’t have that interesting a voice. McKee’s voice, on the other hand, is incredible

[quote]McKee’s voice, on the other hand, is incredible

Agreed, R429, and I think McKee's type of voice is just about perfect for Julie -- dare I say it, far more so than Helen Morgan, who had a VERY different kind of sound.

Just listening to Lonette sing "Bill" you can hear how she really brings a quality of singing taught by generations of Black women, which adds so much to the song and character. I've never quite heard that in other versions.

R399 Loretta Ables Sayre does a lot of work on TV. She turns up on those TV shows filmed in Hawaii all the time. She also does a lot of commercials here in Hawaii. And I believe she does a lot of voice-over work as well.

[quote]Just listening to Lonette sing "Bill" you can hear how she really brings a quality of singing taught by generations of Black women, which adds so much to the song and character. I've never quite heard that in other versions.

Well, I would say at least some of that quality was present in Lena Horne's renditions as well, even if they were Hollywoodized in "Till the Clouds Roll By."

I liked Ava Gardner's (cut) version.

Well, r434, it's Ava (not Annette) on the released soundtrack.

See...?

[quote]R411 Jeanne Crain in the film Pinky, it seems just as dishonest. No way that girl was anything but whiter than white.

There’s a great, really funny book about Hollywood stars titled GIRLS ON FILM.

Discussing these biracial roles, the author says, “Of course in these parts Hollywood would cast actresses like Jeanne Crain and Jennifer Jones, girls you be proud to bring to a KKK koffeeklatch. Had they been any whiter, they’d glow in the dark!”

Apparently for this Showboat discussion, “Black” means having a drop of Black blood.

It’s the 1 Drop Rule.

That rule is alive and well on DL

[quote]R434 I liked Ava Gardner's (cut) version.

Yes! It’s very personal and persuasive. I don’t know who coached her. I think Artie Shaw did some practicing with her when they were first dating. He insisted she could be a Big Band singer and that they could tour together. She was far from convinced, though.

It can’t be ignored that she’s incredibly beautiful here. I mean Wow… those closeups.

Speaking of Showboat...

Remarkable.

Is that her vocal?

So do you think WICKED will just close up and leave LA early?

[quote]R443 Remarkable. Is that her vocal?

Do you mean Ava Gardner’s? If so, yes, that’s her own singing voice. She insisted on recording her two numbers even though the producers were upfront about wanting to dub her from the start. Eventually the studio opted to dub Gardner with Annette Warren.

But then when it was time to release the movie soundtrack, they needed Gardner’s permission to insert the dubbed vocals on it, as her name would be on the record cover. And she politely told them to go to hell - so they had to use her voice on the album.

Haha.

But was that her vocal in the clip?

Yes. For that YouTube clip they just switched in Gardner’s singing from the record album.

Ava Gardner filmed her Show Boat songs singing to a playback of her own vocals. It stayed that way through one preview, then they cut Ava's voice and used Warren's tracks.

Here's Annette Warren's Bill. She's not nearly as expressive as Gardner. Note they bring in the orchestra under her second refrain. With Gardner it was all piano.

Vanessa WIlliams is someone who seems like she'd be much better than she actually is. She's always a disappointment on stage.

Sorry, Ava. This is how you do it.

I was supposed to have played Julie. Then they took my Light Egyptian makeup and slapped it all over Ava Gardner!

I have tickets to see the revival of ShowBoat referenced above

I hope it’s not a complete shitshow

I’m amazed how the Show Boat book has been hacked up so many times. No two shows are the same

Isn't SHOW BOAT in the public domain now?

Ah.....the 1927 version - subsequent versions are still under copyright.

Is the James Whale film from the 1927 version?

It’s so interesting how we all respond differently to individual singing voices - ie, what we personally find to be “the best.”

Helen Morgan is good with the emotion in the song’s second half, but I’m just not attracted to the sound of her voice. Whereas with Shirley Bassey I relax immediately and think, “Oh, yes.”

1935 - Miss Garland at 12.

(I don’t know if that’s her mom on piano.)

Would love to have seen what Lena would have looked like with Light Egyptian make-up. Probably not great. But she would have been a corker as Julie.

Is anyone else going to this revival? I have tickets for next Saturday and curious what this ends up looking like.

I’m hoping it’s like the Fiasco Into the Woods from a few years back.

[quote]Vanessa WIlliams is someone who seems like she'd be much better than she actually is. She's always a disappointment on stage.

Yes, at this point, I think it's fair to say that she's far better in movies and on TV than on stage, because her performance energy is generally not quite strong enough for the latter. I did think she was fine in her last Broadway show, POTUS, but that was basically a featured role as part of an ensemble cast.

I think the Whale film had a few changes in it - but was mostly the 1927 show.....they added some songs and deleted some others.

I do not remember a single thing about her Witch in Into the Woods (Ahmanson Theatre, 2002)

Yes, the Witch in INTO THE WOODS is an example of a role requiring talents and stage performance energy that Vanessa Williams does not possess. Leave it to James Lapine to miscast her so severely.

P.S. I didn't see her in KISS OF THE SPIDER WOMAN, but I imagine she was lacking in that role for the same reasons.