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Luigi Mangione retains high-powered New York attorney; faces 2nd degree murder charge

Luigi Mangione has retained a high-powered New York attorney to represent him as he faces a second-degree murder charge in the death of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, CNN has learned.

Karen Friedman Agnifilo will represent him in New York. Friedman Agnifilo previously worked as the chief assistant district attorney in the Manhattan District Attorney’s Office under Cyrus Vance Jr. for seven years and is a veteran with deep experience in New York City’s criminal justice system. She has worked in private practice since 2021.

“She’s got as much experience as any human being, especially in the state court,” one longtime New York prosecutor told CNN. “She knows every corridor, every judge, every clerk in the courthouse.”

Friedman Agnifilo, who previously served as a CNN legal analyst, declined to comment.

Mangione’s new attorney will be taking on his case as investigators have amassed new evidence in recent days, with police telling CNN this week the 3D-printed gun he had on him when he was arrested matches the three shell casings found at the crime scene in Midtown Manhattan. His fingerprints also matched those investigators found on items near the scene.

The fingerprint and firearms disclosures come as authorities dig into Mangione, who remains in custody in Pennsylvania on gun-related charges as he fights extradition to New York. As of Friday, however, there were indications Mangione “may waive” his extradition next week, according to Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg.

Pennsylvania state Judge Dave Consiglio denied Mangione bail on Tuesday related to both state dockets, saying he would remain at the Huntingdon State Correctional Institution.

Mangione is also facing four other charges, including one count of forging a document and criminally possessing a firearm.

His attorney in Pennsylvania has declined to say if Mangione’s prominent Baltimore family is fronting his legal bills, though Thomas Dickey told CNN this week members of the public had offered to contribute.

A representative for Friedman Agnifilo declined to comment on who is paying his legal fees.

With Mangione fighting extradition, a Pennsylvania court has given him 14 days to file for writ of habeas corpus – putting the burden of proof on those detaining the person to justify the detention – and a hearing will be scheduled if he does.

Pennsylvania prosecutors have 30 days to get a governor’s warrant, which New York Gov. Kathy Hochul said she will work with prosecutors to sign and Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro “is prepared to sign and process … promptly as soon as it is received.”

Dickey has denied his client’s involvement in the killing in New York and anticipates he will plead not guilty there to the murder charge, among other counts. Mangione also plans to plead not guilty to Pennsylvania charges related to a gun and fake ID police say they found when they arrested him in Altoona, Dickey said.

The suspect appeared to be driven by anger against the health insurance industry and against “corporate greed” as a whole, according to an NYPD intelligence report obtained Tuesday by CNN.

“He appeared to view the targeted killing of the company’s highest-ranking representative as a symbolic takedown and a direct challenge to its alleged corruption and ‘power games,’ asserting in his note he is the ‘first to face it with such brutal honesty,’” says the NYPD assessment, which was based on Mangione’s “manifesto” and social media.

Along with a three-page handwritten “claim of responsibility” found on Mangione when he was taken into custody, investigators are looking at the suspect’s writing in a spiral notebook, a law enforcement source briefed on the matter told CNN.

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by Anonymousreply 206December 20, 2024 10:47 PM

GOOD!!!

I am praying that he is acquitted of all charges.

Go, Luigi!!

by Anonymousreply 1December 14, 2024 2:52 AM

How is it only second degree?

by Anonymousreply 2December 14, 2024 2:53 AM

That's exactly what I was wondering, R2.

It was clearly pre-meditated.

That's an automatic First Degree Murder charge.

But I'm glad he's only charged with 2nd Degree.

by Anonymousreply 3December 14, 2024 2:57 AM

Wow. She’s incredibly smart and competent. Very smart choice.

by Anonymousreply 4December 14, 2024 3:00 AM

I hope he only serves 10 years. Too hot to be locked up too long. What I don't get is why he chose the CEO of UHC. He didn't have uNited health insurance. Maybe an ex was also screwed over? I still think it's likely he is schizophrenic. It's sad when it happens to very intelligent people because of how it manifests.

by Anonymousreply 5December 14, 2024 3:02 AM

R3vperhaps something in his past points to the crime being at least partly a crime of passion, if with some premeditation.

by Anonymousreply 6December 14, 2024 3:02 AM

In New York there is really no 1st degree murder. It was a charge that carried a death sentence. NY abolished death penalty but never renamed 2nd to 1st

by Anonymousreply 7December 14, 2024 3:04 AM

What is the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder in New York or most places?

by Anonymousreply 8December 14, 2024 3:06 AM

Come again, R7??

by Anonymousreply 9December 14, 2024 3:24 AM

I think R7 means that a charge of 1st degree murder carried a death penalty in New York. Given that the death penalty was abolished in New York, effectively there is no difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder in New York. Accordingly he's charged with 2nd degree.

by Anonymousreply 10December 14, 2024 3:29 AM

Wait how is this not 1st degree murder? He intended to kill him.

by Anonymousreply 11December 14, 2024 3:33 AM

Actually I understand it better now. Nevermind.

by Anonymousreply 12December 14, 2024 3:34 AM

Luigi Mangione, the suspect in the shooting death of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, is fighting his extradition to New York City, where he'll face a murder charge in the Midtown Manhattan killing.

The 26-year-old Ivy League graduate appeared for a hearing on Tuesday at Pennsylvania's Blair County Courthouse where his lawyer told the judge that Mangione was contesting his extradition.

Mangione, who was arrested on Monday on local charges and later arraigned, made a bail request, which the judge denied during the hearing.

The suspect will remain at Pennsylvania's Huntingdon State Correctional Institution as the extradition proceedings play out.

Thomas Dickey, Mangione's lawyer, told reporters later on Tuesday that Mangione will plead not guilty to all the charges in Pennsylvania.

In an interview with CNN on Tuesday evening, Dickey also said that he anticipates Mangione would plead not guilty to the murder charge in New York, and that he hadn't seen any evidence that officials in New York "have the right guy."

In New York, an arrest warrant obtained by Business Insider shows that Mangione faces a second-degree murder charge in connection to the fatal December 4 shooting of Thompson, a 50-year-old father of two from Minnesota. That charge carries a maximum sentence of life in prison.

[bold](A charge of first-degree murder is reserved for those accused of killing a law enforcement official or witness of a crime, or for when a murder is committed during the commission of another high-level crime, including robbery, rape, or kidnapping.)[/bold]

Mangione also faces four other charges related to the killing of the insurance CEO: two counts of criminal possession of a weapon in the second-degree, one count of second-degree criminal possession of a forged instrument, and one count of criminal possession of a weapon in the third-degree.

A gun found on Mangione matched the three shell casings found at the site of the shooting, New York Police Department Commissioner Jessica Tisch said in a press conference on Wednesday.

Tisch added that the suspect's fingerprints also matched those found on a water bottle and snack bar wrapper discarded near the crime scene.

During Mangione's Monday arrest in Altoona, Pennsylvania, officers found a three-page handwritten document "that speaks to both his motivation and mindset," Tisch said at a press conference on Monday.

An internal NYPD report obtained by The New York Times gave the clearest view of the potential motive yet. Based on the so-called manifesto that was discovered, Mangione "likely views himself as a hero of sorts who has finally decided to act upon such injustices," the NYPD report said, as reported by the Times.

Mangione "appeared to view the targeted killing of the company's highest-ranking representative as a symbolic takedown and a direct challenge to its alleged corruption and 'power games,' asserting in his note he is the 'first to face it with such brutal honesty,'" according to the NYPD report by the department's Intelligence and Counterterrorism Bureau, the Times reported.

In a statement to BI, representatives for Nino Mangione — a Maryland state legislator and a cousin of Mangione's — declined to comment on the news of Mangione's arrest.

"Unfortunately, we cannot comment on news reports regarding Luigi Mangione," the statement read. "We only know what we have read in the media. Our family is shocked and devastated by Luigi's arrest."

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by Anonymousreply 13December 14, 2024 3:37 AM

I hope he has a team of several good attorneys - yes it's good to have prosecuting experience, but it depends on what type of cases she tried.

There are many different divisions - homicide, fraud, sexual assault - and then there's the lowly trial bureaus of simple crimes.

Just because she worked there doesn't necessarily make her a good defense attorney for a murder trial.

by Anonymousreply 14December 14, 2024 3:41 AM

[quote] I hope he has a team of several good attorneys

I'm hoping that there's some massive fundraising going on for his legal defense.

Luigi MUST be acquitted!

by Anonymousreply 15December 14, 2024 3:27 PM

R15 - his family has a lot of money and the article does state that the public wants to contribute to the fund.

I'll chip in.

by Anonymousreply 16December 14, 2024 3:31 PM

Oh I’m sure his “high-powered” attorney will get him off. It’s not like there’s film of him doing it or anything.

by Anonymousreply 17December 14, 2024 3:35 PM

I’m with co R2. It was premeditated.

by Anonymousreply 18December 14, 2024 3:37 PM

Some of you post as if he is sane. You realize he is a very sick fellow. I don’t think you want him out and about killing peooke who happen to piss him off- maybe even for good reason.

by Anonymousreply 19December 14, 2024 3:41 PM

Maybe we can just put him on the street and shoot him?

by Anonymousreply 20December 14, 2024 3:41 PM

With this type of juice behind him, at the most, he'll get put in minimum security, easy-peasy, golf-playing, tennis-playing kind of jail. His hole would be in no danger of being violently passed around unless that's what he's into.

by Anonymousreply 21December 14, 2024 3:49 PM

What I like about this is that she sounds like a no-nonsense procedural defense attorney. This will keep the noise out of the trial, allowing the larger discussion on health insurance company murder to happen in the public sphere where it can make more of a difference.

by Anonymousreply 22December 14, 2024 3:58 PM

The best he will get is a judge who feels sorry for him if the defense pleads insanity. No matter how good the lawyers, you don't get off scot-free when there's actual photographic evidence as well as fingerprint and shell casing matches.

by Anonymousreply 23December 14, 2024 4:00 PM

He needs to do this during the trial:

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by Anonymousreply 24December 14, 2024 4:47 PM

I am going to find him innocent if on jury

by Anonymousreply 25December 15, 2024 1:53 AM

Jury will acquit for sure.

by Anonymousreply 26December 15, 2024 2:04 AM

For those asking about 2nd degree vs. 1st degree murder. Some states define 1st degree murder as:

1. Multiple killings (more than one person killed, e.g., Post Office-type killers who kill co-workers)

2. Killing someone with special status like a judge or a police officer (can be just one person who got killed).

So: it's not only about pre-meditation.

by Anonymousreply 27December 15, 2024 2:08 AM

He's screwed and I don't mean his spine. The prosecution has so much against him in addition to the fact that the cold-blooded execution he carried out on someone he didn't know makes him a danger to society. And I don't think he'll be in prison very long 'cause I don't think he'll survive the living conditions.

by Anonymousreply 28December 15, 2024 2:25 AM

If OJ can get acquitted for a double murder, than Luigi has a chance.

by Anonymousreply 29December 15, 2024 2:58 AM

R29 But there wasn't video of OJ actually murdering people. If there had been, I'm sure the verdict would have very different.

by Anonymousreply 30December 15, 2024 3:00 AM

A snowball's chance in hell R29 Simpson's trial was about proving guilt. We already know that Luigi is guilty of executing Brian Thompson.

by Anonymousreply 31December 15, 2024 3:12 AM

We know that Luigi executed Brian Thompson. We don't know that he's guilty of doing so.

by Anonymousreply 32December 15, 2024 3:17 AM

actually, we do R32 and you double speak is sheer gobbledygook

by Anonymousreply 33December 15, 2024 3:30 AM

I am not surprised Karen Friedman Agnifilo is on this case. She is very competent and that's what this high profile case needs. I've been listening to her on podcasts for a couple years, she's brilliant

by Anonymousreply 34December 15, 2024 3:30 AM

Go for it

by Anonymousreply 35December 15, 2024 3:35 AM

UnitedHealthcare CEO killing suspect Luigi Mangione and Sean ‘Diddy’ Combs’ lawyers are married

by Anonymousreply 36December 15, 2024 4:19 AM

Maybe Luigi can share a cell with Diddy

by Anonymousreply 37December 15, 2024 4:20 AM

What happened to his previous attorney?

by Anonymousreply 38December 15, 2024 4:21 AM

He’s pleading not guilty, right? That’s going to be a stretch for her. I would think an attorney on this case would be trying to get a reduced sentence.

by Anonymousreply 39December 15, 2024 4:21 AM

I wonder what his psych evaluation will show. Surely they’ve tested him for drugs by now.

by Anonymousreply 40December 15, 2024 4:22 AM

“But will you represent a strapping young man of strong moral conviction like myself?”

by Anonymousreply 41December 15, 2024 4:23 AM

[quote] UnitedHealthcare CEO killing suspect Luigi Mangione and Sean ‘Diddy’ Combs’ lawyers are married

Diddy's attorney is a clown, almost shockingly bad.

by Anonymousreply 42December 15, 2024 4:36 AM

[Quote] Diddy's attorney is a clown, almost shockingly bad.

Good! Exactly what Diddy deserves.

by Anonymousreply 43December 15, 2024 4:51 AM

Doesn't he basically need to turn this into a media circus so that he can go for nullification? Is she the right type of lawyer for that?

by Anonymousreply 44December 15, 2024 4:53 AM

This entire case is reminding me of “Serial Mom”.

by Anonymousreply 45December 15, 2024 4:54 AM

In "Bernie," a movie about a real-life story, the prosecutor did a motion for a change in venue. Prosecutor felt he could not get a fair trial in the Texas town where the killing took place. Prosecutor got a change of venue and won the trial.

Usually, defense will move for change of venue, though.

by Anonymousreply 46December 15, 2024 4:56 AM

He planned it and shot the guy in the back. Hope he gets life without parole and his rich family spends all their money defending him.

by Anonymousreply 47December 15, 2024 5:08 AM

That is not how Datalounge determines guilt or innocence, R47. It is a complex algorithm tested and retested over a number of years.

by Anonymousreply 48December 15, 2024 5:33 AM

Pity Johnnie Cochrane is dead, he would have been great for this.

by Anonymousreply 49December 15, 2024 5:34 AM

[quote]What happened to his previous attorney?

I believe that guy is representing him on the Pennsylvania charges for now. He must not be licensed in New York.

by Anonymousreply 50December 15, 2024 5:36 AM

[quote]He’s pleading not guilty, right? That’s going to be a stretch for her. I would think an attorney on this case would be trying to get a reduced sentence.

On a case like this where there’s a huge amount of public support for the defendant, it would be foolish to not pursue a jury trial.

by Anonymousreply 51December 15, 2024 5:38 AM

Didn't some of the OJ jurors later on imply that they acquitted him because of all the racist shit done by LA cops for decades? I could see a similar thing happening here with regard to everyone hating insurance companies for denial of claims, especially if his lawyers are really good. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

by Anonymousreply 52December 15, 2024 6:14 AM

If the alleged perpetrator here had been the ‘Pat’ character from “Saturday Night Live,” there’d have never been support for doubt in the culpability of the suspect!

by Anonymousreply 53December 15, 2024 6:31 AM

^support for or doubt in…

by Anonymousreply 54December 15, 2024 6:32 AM

[quote]second-degree murder charge

Why is not being charged for first-degree murder? Didn't he allegedly write damning messages on the shell casings? I'm confroozed.

by Anonymousreply 55December 15, 2024 6:44 AM

^ *he

by Anonymousreply 56December 15, 2024 6:46 AM

I read somewhere that in New York, first degree murder is a high bar - killing a policeman, killing after a kidnapping or rape, killing a witness, maybe killing a child - I can't remember, but he didn't do one of the required things for Murder 1.

by Anonymousreply 57December 15, 2024 7:06 AM

I love this charming mix of people who do and don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

by Anonymousreply 58December 15, 2024 7:17 AM

R31, you’re an idiot. Please review the concept of jury nullification and understand that there are many, many people who do not wish to see this person punished AT ALL He stands a good chance of being acquitted, whether he is guilty or not.

by Anonymousreply 59December 15, 2024 8:09 AM

Good reference, R45.

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by Anonymousreply 60December 15, 2024 8:16 AM

R52 Perhaps if a jury is emotionally inclined to vote a particular way then they might look for something to come up at the trial to give them a kind of 'permission' to do so: not an expert but at OJ's trial that might have been the tapes of the cop using racist language, then the glove which didn't fit created just enough reasonable doubt.

So the defence here needs to find something to give the jury that same kind of permission? Presumably without trying to deny that Luigi fired the gun.

by Anonymousreply 61December 15, 2024 8:20 AM

She resembles his mom. I am sure he’ll be comforted by that.

by Anonymousreply 62December 15, 2024 8:25 AM

Jury nullification is a possibility but, if implemented by the jury, it is against their oath and duty as jurors. There is no legal recourse against the defendant or jury, but the jury is violating the law. It is not ok. As to charges, the state can refile once they get their evidence together. It may be a starter charge.

by Anonymousreply 63December 15, 2024 12:19 PM

What are they going to refile? The charged the highest possibile offense (which includes any lesser charge).

by Anonymousreply 64December 15, 2024 12:24 PM

I should hope he at leasts will admit guilt, right away. Anything else would be cowardice.

He committed the deed, for whatever ideology or motivation, now be a man and face the consequences.

by Anonymousreply 65December 15, 2024 12:30 PM

at least*

by Anonymousreply 66December 15, 2024 12:30 PM

[quote]Oh I’m sure his “high-powered” attorney will get him off. It’s not like there’s film of him doing it or anything.

She's a Karen!

by Anonymousreply 67December 15, 2024 12:37 PM

Hello, stochastic terrorism defence incoming.

by Anonymousreply 68December 15, 2024 12:42 PM

“It’s not like there’s film of him doing it or anything.”

In the age of CCTV and YouTube, people seem to think there has to be a video. In fact, most cases are proved by technically circumstantial evidence. In any event, there is an already widely circulated photo of him pointing the gun at the victim’s back.

by Anonymousreply 69December 15, 2024 12:46 PM

She looks like Susie Green from Curb Your Enthusiasm - and looks like she has the same toughness.

She’ll probably be calling the guy who was killed a

FAT FOUR EYED FUCK

by Anonymousreply 70December 15, 2024 1:01 PM

Time to touch some grass, r70. That was fuckin' weird.

by Anonymousreply 71December 15, 2024 1:02 PM

R71- Do you mean smoke 💨 pot or go outside and touch some lawn?

by Anonymousreply 72December 15, 2024 1:09 PM

"Touch grass" is a slang phrase that basically means "go outside and experience the real world." It's often used humorously or sarcastically to suggest that someone is spending too much time online and needs a break from the digital world.

Think of it as a lighthearted way to tell someone to disconnect from their screens and reconnect with reality, literally and figuratively.

So, if someone says "touch grass" to you, they're playfully suggesting you get some fresh air, sunshine, and maybe even a little dirt on your hands. 😉

by Anonymousreply 73December 15, 2024 1:10 PM

R65 He'll have to plead not guilty if he wants his day in court, which I'm pretty sure he does. He might try some version of 'I killed him but it wasn't murder'.

by Anonymousreply 74December 15, 2024 1:13 PM

The manifesto seems problematic. I want him free but I do think he's painted himself into a rather difficult corner.

by Anonymousreply 75December 15, 2024 1:28 PM

[quote] want him free but I do think he's painted himself into a rather difficult corner.

Why? So he can continue to kill anyone he deems unworthy of life?

by Anonymousreply 76December 15, 2024 1:34 PM

We know what you're doing, r76. Go back to your Fox News.

by Anonymousreply 77December 15, 2024 1:36 PM

What is it about this suspect that makes you think it is right wing to deplore him. You are deeply stupid.

by Anonymousreply 78December 15, 2024 1:37 PM

Apparently NY attorneys think 'extreme emotional disturbance' might be a runner. Importantly this defense can be used even for a premeditated and planned crime. He will have to lay out all the facts leading up to the fatal act to show what created his state of mind, which will give ample opportunity to put the health insurance industry on trial in turn and turn the focus to where he wants it to be.

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by Anonymousreply 79December 15, 2024 1:40 PM

No, you are deeply stupid. You can both deeply deplore murder while understanding why we did it.

Now run along to Fox and Friends. I'll be here when you try this again.

by Anonymousreply 80December 15, 2024 1:41 PM

There really is no deeper form of stupidity than implying someone is right wing just because he has a different view from yours that you can’t refute. Any review of my posting history would reveal I loath the Republican Party. Don’t accuse me of being something I’m not just because your tiny, filthy brain is overtaxed

by Anonymousreply 81December 15, 2024 1:47 PM

Set up your posts better then, r81. Read the fucking room.

by Anonymousreply 82December 15, 2024 1:52 PM

I’ve read the room. And it is stupid and degenerate. What obligation do I have to do someone of your stupidity and foulness?

by Anonymousreply 83December 15, 2024 1:54 PM

And there we have it: boiled down for all to see. If you hate us all so much, you can always click off. Either way, fuck off.

by Anonymousreply 84December 15, 2024 1:56 PM

Just because he may be right, doesn't mean he should be free. He should have the courage of his convictions and stand by a conviction. If he wanted to be a martyr for this cause, let him be. He will be celebrated as such and we maybe thanking him later as the start of a crusade, some reform, much bigger than him. But he did hunt down a man and kill him in the middle of the street.

by Anonymousreply 85December 15, 2024 1:56 PM

Nobody but dumb kids on TikTok think he shouldn't pay for his crimes.

by Anonymousreply 86December 15, 2024 1:58 PM

R94. And you are free to do the same. Your bloodthirsty foulness and stupidity won’t be missed.

by Anonymousreply 87December 15, 2024 2:03 PM

Take pills for that delusion, love. You must be so frustrated that your propaganda is being countered so soundly.

by Anonymousreply 88December 15, 2024 2:05 PM

He looks swarthy and sexy in that photo at R79. Do me hard, vigilante bro.

by Anonymousreply 89December 15, 2024 2:15 PM

I’m not sure I’d want a Karen to defend me. Many people find them off-putting.

I suppose if you can’t afford a Chad . . .

by Anonymousreply 90December 15, 2024 2:19 PM

The United Healthcare CEO was a killer, too. And the worst kind.

"Just following orders."

by Anonymousreply 91December 15, 2024 2:26 PM

In NY 1st Degree murder is for especially heinous murders

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by Anonymousreply 92December 15, 2024 2:29 PM

[quote] The United Healthcare CEO was a killer, too. And the worst kind.

Our healthcare system kills people, but that is a collective responsibility . It’s wrong to blame the people who administer that system for its flaws. It’s too easy. We are all to blame.

by Anonymousreply 93December 15, 2024 2:34 PM

Nah, we've all been worn down by their messaging (and messaging like yours) and many attempts we've made to fix this with the Clintons and Obama. People have to live their lives. Nice try, r93.

by Anonymousreply 94December 15, 2024 2:36 PM

So why stop with the CEO? Why not kill everyone who works in health insurance? And everyone who works for the fossil fuel industry. And everyone who works for defense contractors. And everyone who works for chemical companies?

by Anonymousreply 95December 15, 2024 2:39 PM

Oh, fuck off, with your histrionics. We're immune.

by Anonymousreply 96December 15, 2024 2:45 PM

The mark of a keen mind.

by Anonymousreply 97December 15, 2024 2:48 PM

You’re the one engaging in histrionics with all your armchair revolutionary rhetoric. If you’re not willing to pull the trigger yourself and pay the consequences, you’re just a bloviating hypocrite.

by Anonymousreply 98December 15, 2024 2:50 PM

Ad hominems, anyone?

by Anonymousreply 99December 15, 2024 2:51 PM

R95, the CEO was a symbol of a larger problem, obviously. The CEO was beholden to a board of directors who only care about a bottom line. Therefore the CEO had to come up with ways to maximize profits. And I am sure a good number of those ways cost people their lives. But what Luigi did was what you call taking the message directly to the man. And maybe when you put these CEOs back in touch with their humanity, out of a literal fear for their lives, maybe they will enact policies that are more in line with their humanity. Or we'll all be screaming "You're NEXT!" and hanging up the phone.

by Anonymousreply 100December 15, 2024 4:14 PM

So we use violence to get the policies we prefer? That’ll work out well in a deeply divided country with more guns than people.

by Anonymousreply 101December 15, 2024 4:24 PM

[quote] Take pills for that delusion, love. You must be so frustrated that your propaganda is being countered so soundly.

Haha. Countered? You haven’t even attempted that.

by Anonymousreply 102December 15, 2024 4:34 PM

R101, how do you think the fucking country was founded? The freaking national anthem is about a battle for godsake. America LOVES violence. And we haven't had any real violence over ideology for a long time. I would call January 6th, stupidity, not ideology.

by Anonymousreply 103December 15, 2024 4:46 PM

I'm sure, r102. I'm sure.

by Anonymousreply 104December 15, 2024 4:52 PM

Gaining independence from an empire in the 18th century required violence, so let’s use violence to settle health care policy today! What a compelling argument.

by Anonymousreply 105December 15, 2024 5:25 PM

Well, the January 6 cunts are about to get pardoned, so...

by Anonymousreply 106December 15, 2024 5:30 PM

R105 is like one of those of the last 35 years who will tell you what will absolutely NOT work when it comes to health coverage but gives absolutely no ideas as to what might work.

You never know r105, maybe a couple more heads on pikes just might work. And you can’t for sure say it wouldn’t.

by Anonymousreply 107December 15, 2024 6:10 PM

No—I can’t say for sure that killing insurance executives in the streets won’t “work,” but I can say that even if it does work, deadly violence in not my idea of a good way to enact change, nor is a bloodbath likely to only kill the people you want to see dead.

by Anonymousreply 108December 15, 2024 6:19 PM

And the pearl clutchers shall lead them.

by Anonymousreply 109December 15, 2024 6:23 PM

R103 And you think Luigi's actions were smart?

by Anonymousreply 110December 15, 2024 6:29 PM

Not meaning to play devil's advocate in a cruel way, but there may be a need for some form of rationing, when it comes to healthcare. There's an effort underway now by Stage 4 breast cancer patients in England and Wales to get a reversal in their refusal to approve a drug called Enhertu, which can give a few more months of life. (It's legal in the U.S. and in other places in Europe, even Scotland).

I'm not sure what other rationing methods are used there, but another well-informed person I follow has Stage 4 colon cancer, and he's English, his wife Japanese, so he had a choice of countries for treatment. He said Japan is 10 years ahead of England in cancer treatment, and 5 years ahead of the US. And Japan has the best or second best healthcare system in the world, according to some lists.

Anyway, the US has good quality healthcare available, if you can afford it. Often dictators and other extremely wealthy people will come to the US for their cancer treatment at M. D. Anderson, Mayo, and other top notch centers. It has just chosen to use money as a way to ration care, in many cases, and that's an ethics problem. But however you do it, rationed care will leave some people out. And you have to ration it somehow - all people can't have every possible treatment in every case. We already outspend every country in amount spent per person.

by Anonymousreply 111December 15, 2024 6:41 PM

* "legal" was the wrong word to describe Enhertu in countries where it's commonly used and even paid for by insurance companies. It's "legal" in England but NHS won't pay for it.

by Anonymousreply 112December 15, 2024 6:44 PM

One of the reasons we outspend other countries on healthcare is the enormous insurance infrastructure (not only those who work for the insurers, but also those who work for medical providers whose jobs consist of interacting with insurers) and its profits. Very wasteful.

by Anonymousreply 113December 15, 2024 6:46 PM

Kinda crazy that there's a massive military infrastructure that's the envy of the world in the US, but not one for the sick. It's a matter of will, plain and simple. No world salad will excuse it.

by Anonymousreply 114December 15, 2024 6:49 PM

The doctors in the American Medical Association geared up long ago to oppose single payer. I think it was Harry Truman who advocated for it (1948-1952) and then even Richard Nixon proposed it in the late 60s. It took Lyndon Johnson twisting every arm in Congress to get Medicare passed in 1965.

So there's the original sin in this matter. I think Obamacare went a long way towards fixing the problem, but Trump and crew will probably abolish it, if not Medicare, Medicaid, the VA healthcare system, etc.

Unfettered capitalism is brutal.

by Anonymousreply 115December 15, 2024 6:55 PM

* I got the dates wrong. "Harry S. Truman, the 33rd president of the United States, proposed a national healthcare plan to Congress in September 1945, just weeks after World War II ended."

by Anonymousreply 116December 15, 2024 6:59 PM

Congress blocked it in 1950

by Anonymousreply 117December 15, 2024 7:16 PM

My point r108 is, whether you are with it or not, you take full advantage of living in a country that has used violence at almost every turn to advance itself and that whole heatedly embraces violence. You’re basically Carmela Soprano bemoaning violence yet going shopping anyway with all the ill-gotten money.

R110 I never once said that. I do find it fascinating considering most people don’t seem to be passionate about anything anymore accept themselves. I guess it takes crazy.

America is the richest country in the world. Every single citizen could have access to the best healthcare, if that was important. But it’s not.

by Anonymousreply 118December 15, 2024 7:56 PM

Lawyer is married to Diddy's lawyer

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by Anonymousreply 119December 15, 2024 7:59 PM

[Quote] And we haven't had any real violence over ideology for a long time. I would call January 6th, stupidity, not ideology

[Quote] And you think Luigi's actions were smart?

R118 I was asking a question.

by Anonymousreply 120December 15, 2024 8:14 PM

[quote] My point [R108] is, whether you are with it or not, you take full advantage of living in a country that has used violence at almost every turn to advance itself and that whole heatedly embraces violence. You’re basically Carmela Soprano bemoaning violence yet going shopping anyway with all the ill-gotten money.

One of the dumber arguments I’ve ever read on Datalounge.

Violence if the past justifies any violence today? Rubbish.

by Anonymousreply 121December 15, 2024 9:06 PM

^in the past

by Anonymousreply 122December 15, 2024 9:15 PM

R111 decisions on drug approvals for NHS patients in England are made by NICE (National Institute for Health and Care Excellence), which is a public body attached to the Dept. of Health. Its committees of relevant experts, practitioners etc make decisions on new treatments based on the number of QALYs (Quality-Adjusted Life Years) the treatment is expected to gain versus the cost. They at least consult widely, including people living with the disease in question, and are not responsible to shareholders. They tried to negotiate the price of Enhertu down but Big Pharma wouldn't budge and so it was deemed non cost-effective.

NHS patients have the right to receive drugs recommended by NICE if their physician deems it appropriate.

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by Anonymousreply 123December 15, 2024 10:18 PM

Right now they are approving Ozempic on the NHS only for the most obese patients:

by Anonymousreply 124December 15, 2024 10:20 PM

No one gives a rat’s ass about your shithole system. This is about OUR shithole system. Capice?!

by Anonymousreply 125December 15, 2024 10:22 PM

R125. Fair enough, all that consultation sounds really tedious and time-consuming when AI tools can do the job instead, right?

by Anonymousreply 126December 15, 2024 10:26 PM

No. Because that’s not how it works for over to 85% of Americans, at a minimum.

Do your research before you argle-garble internet propaganda.

by Anonymousreply 127December 15, 2024 10:32 PM

I don't need to do any research to know you're dripping cunt, yankee.

by Anonymousreply 128December 15, 2024 10:34 PM

But you remain ignorant—you will always be able to fall back on that.

by Anonymousreply 129December 15, 2024 11:26 PM

[quote]He might try some version of 'I killed him but it wasn't murder'.

He had it coming

He had it coming

He only had himself to blame!

by Anonymousreply 130December 16, 2024 3:03 AM

Michael Moore Says He Will Not “Tamp Down” or Condemn Anger Stirred by Luigi Mangione:

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by Anonymousreply 131December 16, 2024 4:10 AM

R121, it’s not a silly argument. You are just being a hypocrite. Violence has been and will always be a part of the human experience - man against man. Nation against nation. Human beings are not peaceful creatures, at least it’s not in our nature to be. You come from a privileged place of never having to traffic in violence for survival - because someone else did it for you. But that’s not the way most of the world lives. Most of the world has a front row seat to the violence that goes on between men on a daily basis.

But America cut its teeth on violence - and not that long ago. And just because we’ve outsourced it to other areas of the globe to protect our citizens from its taint, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen today. It’s in our Nation’s DNA. You see it in how we treat each other. It’s why, even despite being one of the richest nations, we are the most violent of the first world nations.

And r120 I know you were asking a question. And I answered it. I don’t know how you got your question from what I originally stated.

by Anonymousreply 132December 16, 2024 8:34 AM

Hear what Mangione’s New York attorney told CNN before she was retained as his attorney

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by Anonymousreply 133December 16, 2024 10:35 AM

[quote]A charge of first-degree murder is reserved for those accused of killing a law enforcement official or witness of a crime, or for when a murder is committed during the commission of another high-level crime, including robbery, rape, or kidnapping.

“Reserved” HA. I mean...splitting hairs BUT I guess it's not that big of a deal

by Anonymousreply 134December 16, 2024 10:42 AM

Meanwhile the media still don't have the first clue what to do with the growing Cult of Luigi. In a desperate attempt to make Brian Thompson into a more sympathetic victim they're now comparing him to John Lennon. I wonder if that will work?

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by Anonymousreply 135December 16, 2024 12:12 PM

It is a silly argument. Borderline insane. It boils down to “violence is justified because it is human nature to be violent.” I am not a hypocrite for rejecting that. Nor am I “privileged” for never having had to engage in violence “for survival.”

by Anonymousreply 136December 16, 2024 1:28 PM

This morning on CNN, before talking about the story, host Sara Snyder said this new attorney of his has been a long-time legal analyst for CNN, and is no longer with the network since taking the case this weekend. She introduced their new go-to legal analyst, the handsome Joey Jackson (who has filled in before) and jokingly told him they hope that if he ever decides to take a high-profile case, he'll let them know in advance. Sounds like they were unprepared for Karen Freeman's sudden departure this weekend.

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by Anonymousreply 137December 16, 2024 1:37 PM

[quote]In a desperate attempt to make Brian Thompson into a more sympathetic victim they're now comparing him to John Lennon. I wonder if that will work?

We really need to be reminded of Brian's contribution to popular music before continuing any comparison.

by Anonymousreply 138December 16, 2024 1:54 PM

R138 It all went sharply downhill after he married his wife Paulette.

by Anonymousreply 139December 16, 2024 2:19 PM

Jesus f Christ it's Capisce.

And if anyone pronounces the g in his lawyer's name it is in the NY legal system that they will 100% get a first degree murder conviction.

by Anonymousreply 140December 16, 2024 2:33 PM

If my boyfriend's name was Luigi, I'd have to call him Lou or something. I couldn't deal with saying Luigi all the time and dealing with all the follow up questions,. Imagine, hearing everyday " yes, he's Italian, yes, like Chuck, no he doesn't play the trumpet, Italy, yes, I know, maybe one day...". Say it out loud "Luigi", the mouth has to do a lot of work just to get it out. It's annoying.

by Anonymousreply 141December 16, 2024 2:49 PM

This murder caused Anthem who was shitting a brick after the assassination to cancel its absolutely insane policy to its time limited anesthesia coverage.

It also brought forth an anger and discussion the likes of which has never been seen since decades of books and movies, news reports on the subject. So yeah this shooting worked. Sorry people who think this was murder was wrong and ignoring the murderer in a jacket and tie who celebrates murder at investor meetings with co- workers with cheers, yelps of joy and high fives. Unless you were joking which I hope you were.

As people pointed out the country formed and expanded in the crucible of murder and mayhem and to keep the country united the civil war caused such a terrible miserable loss of life. But these were wars you say. I'd say this is an important war caused by a system that is not broken but horribly corrupt with the ruling American corporations and bought off politicians buttressing it.

Where was Brian's arrest by law enforcement? Oh he works for a corporation and hands down the work to a 90% fallible algorithm and employees who have a quota for denials so that's ok.

by Anonymousreply 142December 16, 2024 3:06 PM

But where does it stop?!!! That's for God or whatever you believe in to decide. And if you don't believe in anything what does it matter?

by Anonymousreply 143December 16, 2024 3:10 PM

People call Luigi Lou if he wants them to.

by Anonymousreply 144December 16, 2024 3:12 PM

Has the humiliated jobless uninsured not getting her reward money nation-wide hated Nancy Parker made a statement yet?

by Anonymousreply 145December 16, 2024 3:24 PM

Documentary in the works:

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by Anonymousreply 146December 16, 2024 5:34 PM

OK, r136. There are 8 billion people in the world. You live better than 7.5 billion of them. You don't have the face the darkness of violence that MOST of the world faces at some point in their life, if not everyday of their life. - AND YOU'RE NOT Privileged? Ok sweetheart.

by Anonymousreply 147December 16, 2024 7:07 PM

Most of the world faces violence every day of their lives?

Sure.

[backs slowly away]

by Anonymousreply 148December 16, 2024 8:15 PM

Darfur!

Asshole^

by Anonymousreply 149December 16, 2024 8:17 PM

This will not only put Luigi on trial but it will be a nation watched trial for the whole health care corporate business of life and death decisions made by people and now computer programs who have no medical experience whatsoever and don't know what the hell they are doing except for making profits.

Thank you Brian Thompson for the ultimate sacrifice for the good of the nation. And a plus is that you had a cute assassin. Hot enough that many will be hoping for him having at least a hung jury and a good finger wagging and a hug.

by Anonymousreply 150December 16, 2024 8:35 PM

Darfur is not most of the world. And you’re getting pretty far away from “rich kid shoots CEO on streets of NYC.”

by Anonymousreply 151December 16, 2024 9:27 PM

Kyle Rittenhouse killed two people and is walking around free, trying to sell merch to the MAGAts. At least Luigi reminded us that the health insurance industry is filled with lying parasites ripping us off.

by Anonymousreply 152December 16, 2024 9:34 PM

Like we needed to be reminded.

by Anonymousreply 153December 16, 2024 9:34 PM

^ America is stupid and has the attention span of a gnat. Yes, they need reminding.

by Anonymousreply 154December 16, 2024 9:37 PM

The attention span of a gnat will apply to the reminder.

by Anonymousreply 155December 16, 2024 10:06 PM

Kids are walking out over this on college campuses all over the country before heading home to talk about Luigi with their families.

by Anonymousreply 156December 16, 2024 10:33 PM

Look at the high-powered snout on that one.

by Anonymousreply 157December 16, 2024 10:34 PM

CNN with a great deal of anger announced there was no memorial of flowers left where this guy was shot.

That's enormously interesting. Like NOBODY cared about this guy being killed? Like even those who were against it or United Health employees? So it's not just social media. Everyone didn't care.

by Anonymousreply 158December 16, 2024 10:54 PM

He’s from Minnesota. Memorials for crime victims are usually left by friends and family who are not in NYC.

by Anonymousreply 159December 16, 2024 11:09 PM

Health insurance company CEOs and their board members are directly responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands due to their arbitrary policies of delay and denying coverage. I have zero empathy when any of them become a target of an outraged public.

by Anonymousreply 160December 16, 2024 11:14 PM

R250 no one will watch, as no one will see it outside of the courtroom. You be.dumb.

by Anonymousreply 161December 17, 2024 12:57 AM

R150^

by Anonymousreply 162December 17, 2024 12:58 AM

I wish him all the best, I think he should do some time but not too much

by Anonymousreply 163December 17, 2024 1:12 AM

Life is short. ^

by Anonymousreply 164December 17, 2024 1:13 AM

[quote] Health insurance company CEOs and their board members are directly responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands due to their arbitrary policies of delay and denying coverage.

You forgot to paste the support for this astounding claim.

by Anonymousreply 165December 17, 2024 1:24 AM

You would think people against vigilante killing and his employees in NY would leave flowers.

by Anonymousreply 166December 17, 2024 1:31 AM

The elves come out overnight and steal the flowers at 54th and Sixth 1/2 Ave.

by Anonymousreply 167December 17, 2024 1:38 AM

R167 I was more sad about the demise of the Ziegfeld Theater than I was of this CEO.

by Anonymousreply 168December 17, 2024 2:17 AM

I read a report, Jailhouse source said none of his family has visited him in jail

by Anonymousreply 169December 17, 2024 2:30 AM

There are a million people out there who want to adopt him, fuck him, or have his babies (or all 3). Who needs the Mangiones?

by Anonymousreply 170December 17, 2024 6:37 AM

They should have a seat tester for choosing a jury. Check to see if the chair is wet after showing a photo of the defendant.

by Anonymousreply 171December 17, 2024 6:49 AM

R158, if they’re so upset why didn’t CNN leave them themselves? They’re such phony little shits.

by Anonymousreply 172December 17, 2024 6:50 AM

GOP is scared. Expect off the charts trolling.

by Anonymousreply 173December 17, 2024 7:58 AM

Oh, this heifer is on The Meidas Touch Network! Which means that she’s a grifter of sorts, just like the Meiselas Brothers.

by Anonymousreply 174December 17, 2024 1:10 PM

Everybody shows that full length picture of him in his cell but no one mentions he pissed his pants which is so obvious. Think somebody here mentioned it on another thread.

by Anonymousreply 175December 17, 2024 1:44 PM

[quote]but no one mentions he pissed his pants which is so obvious

Why are you bringing up old stuff?

by Anonymousreply 176December 17, 2024 1:50 PM

Luigi Mangione was indicted Tuesday by the Manhattan district attorney in the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

Mangione was hit with multiple charges, including one count of murder in the first degree, in furtherance of terrorism, and two counts of murder in the second degree, one of which is charged as killing as an act of terrorism.

Good thing his family can afford high-powered legal representation

by Anonymousreply 177December 17, 2024 10:57 PM

Is Mariska fingering herself over this "ripped from the headlines" fodder? Maybe it'll be a two parter or L&O crossover event!

by Anonymousreply 178December 17, 2024 11:17 PM

Will Luigi ever take the stand in his own defense?

by Anonymousreply 179December 17, 2024 11:25 PM

Luigi Mangione arrives at courthouse as hundreds of protesters gather outside to show support for alleged killer

by Anonymousreply 180December 19, 2024 2:26 PM

I doubt it, unless it's to demonstrate how crazy he is, a la a Perry Mason episode.

by Anonymousreply 181December 19, 2024 7:05 PM

Guys, the dailyfail rag mentioned DATALOUNGE!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 182December 19, 2024 7:45 PM

Another person on the discussion website called datalounge agreed, claiming Mangione was 'showing his tongue up into his upper cheek. Wisdom tooth pain or secret terrorist signal?'

by Anonymousreply 183December 19, 2024 7:47 PM

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 184December 19, 2024 11:07 PM

Interesting R184. From that article:

"One X user wrote: 'Luigi, pushing his tongue against his cheek means “contempt”! Which Means DISRESPECT! He sent a signal to ALL!'

Another person on the discussion website called Datalounge agreed, claiming Mangione was 'showing his tongue up into his upper cheek. Wisdom tooth pain or secret terrorist signal?'"

by Anonymousreply 185December 20, 2024 12:03 AM

[quote] Another person on the discussion website called Datalounge agreed,

DataLounge IS big!

by Anonymousreply 186December 20, 2024 12:12 AM

Why didn't The Fail quote R178 asking "Is Mariska fingering herself?"

by Anonymousreply 187December 20, 2024 12:53 AM

Fill me with your hot, creamy load, Luigi.

by Anonymousreply 188December 20, 2024 1:01 AM

[quote]the discussion website called Datalounge

They didn't even call us a gay site.

Are we going to get an infusion of newbies now?

by Anonymousreply 189December 20, 2024 1:11 AM

Does this officially make Luigi a gay icon?

by Anonymousreply 190December 20, 2024 1:59 AM

We're probably taking to actual Daily Mail reporters here on Datalounge, pumping us for details or whatever.

I thought I'd noticed some overlap.

by Anonymousreply 191December 20, 2024 2:08 AM

* talking (not taking)

by Anonymousreply 192December 20, 2024 2:09 AM

[quote] discussion website

Code language for "vile pit of trollery".

by Anonymousreply 193December 20, 2024 2:20 AM

[quote] DataLounge IS big!

It's the Internet that got small!

by Anonymousreply 194December 20, 2024 2:32 AM

FINALLY, some respect. (A mention in the UK Daily Mail.)

by Anonymousreply 195December 20, 2024 2:33 AM

DL is no longer the Christina Crawford of the internet!

by Anonymousreply 196December 20, 2024 2:35 AM

I want a reverse Kangaroo Court for Luigi. Where the jury knows he's guilty but each and every one of them declares him not guilty and acquit him anyways. Being partial or impartial is irrelevant if every single one of those people in that jury box have been majorly fucked over by our healthcare system.

I hope this sets a precedent and capitalism finally either dies once and for all or slowly begins to lose its vicegrip on the nation.

by Anonymousreply 197December 20, 2024 3:00 AM

Forgive my ignorance, but hasn’t she been on TV? Like on Law and Crime?

by Anonymousreply 198December 20, 2024 3:28 AM

Updated on: December 19, 2024 / 1:28 PM EST / CBS New York

OP and now he faces the death penalty

NEW YORK - Luigi Mangione is being charged with four federal crimes Thursday in the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

This is in addition to the 11 charges he faces in New York, including first degree murder in furtherance of terrorism.

The federal charges are significant because they open the possibility of him facing the death penalty.

by Anonymousreply 199December 20, 2024 9:53 AM

He shot him from behind like a bitch and then he hid.

I’m looking forward to this attorney trying to spin it any other way.

He’s getting life, folks.

by Anonymousreply 200December 20, 2024 11:44 AM

How convenient. Karen and her hubby can ride share to Rikers.

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by Anonymousreply 201December 20, 2024 6:37 PM

My bad it's not Rikers but The Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, New York. A notorious prison where people who are charged with federal crimes in New York are held while awaiting trial.

by Anonymousreply 202December 20, 2024 7:05 PM

[quote]Are we going to get an infusion of newbies now?

DL will sniff them out at a thousand paces, as with the Russian trolls. 'You type Daily Mail' will be the instant term of summary dismissal.

by Anonymousreply 203December 20, 2024 8:37 PM

r201 That's weirdly coincidental. It's almost like this CEO slaying, Diddy, and the NJ drones are coordinated distractions.

by Anonymousreply 204December 20, 2024 9:55 PM

[quote] Are we going to get an infusion of newbies now?

The DL newbie requirement is post a photo of yourself presenting hole. We will decide if you are deemed acceptable.

by Anonymousreply 205December 20, 2024 10:11 PM

I like Karen. She is very soft spoken. You can twl3l she is a shrewd bitch under all this seemingly quiet attidue

by Anonymousreply 206December 20, 2024 10:47 PM
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