Elon Musk calls homelessness a ‘lie’ and ‘propaganda'

He looks so good in that picture. So well rested.

[quote] Trump, meanwhile, says people experiencing homelessness should be forced into treatment or mental institutions “or face arrest.”

This, coming from a Real Estate Developer.

That's the reason I hate real estate people with he heat of 10,000,000 suns!

They're so fucking EVIL and GREEDY.

Sub-human creatures.

[quote]Influential billionaires and right-wing think tanks have been advancing legislation that criminalizes homelessness in Congress and at the Supreme Court, “and they all share this backwards, incorrect view that if we punish people enough, they will choose not to be poor,” according to Jesse Rabinowitz, campaign and communications director with the National Homelessness Law Center.

Jesus Fucking Christ.

The GOP played better chess art the Federal level (thanks, Manchin and Sinema!) and the Democrats didn't take care of the problem (much of it caused by Reaganism) on the local and state level in places like California, so now they're going to get mowed over by the inhumane GOP and these poor people are going to suffer. The homeless-industrial complex is a real thing. Money didn't solve the problem, so now people are going to get forced into institutions that will abuse the living fuck out of them. What a fucking mess.

Most people don't care about the preceding details. They just want the problem solved and don't have time to care about the facts.

If you have ever wondered why Oligarchs are bad?

THIS is why.

They're just evil and rotten to the core.

This is also why we need their heads on PIKES.

Oligarchs and Trump's entire public career depend on being the asshole who is willing to "go there". This is why the right for people to be an asshole, even on the micro-level with bullshit "free speech" crap, is defended more than any other.

Sure, Elon. It keeps getting worse because so many people aspire to be homeless.

Go look in the mirror freak...

How long before Musk & co seriously suggest that it might be a good idea to line homeless people up against a wall and shoot them all?

Not too long, r8.

[quote] How long before Musk & co seriously suggest that it might be a good idea to line homeless people up against a wall and shoot them all?

Or gas chambers, R8.

This is the EXACT same contempt that Hitler had for Jewish people.

He uses the same language about the homeless that Hitler did about Jews. And then what group is next?

We are entering dangerous territory right now.

Instigated by the richest man in the world, who is advising the most powerful man in the world.

He also owns a space company, a car company, and one of the largest media platforms on the planet.

He's up to no good, that's for sure.

And the possibilities are limitless.

[quote]This is the EXACT same contempt that Hitler had for Jewish people.

Not exactly. It's closer to the reasoning they used to clear out mental institutions with cold, clinical euthanasia, seeing these people as defects or freaks of nature to be exterminated. Their brand of anti-semitism was seeing Jewish people as a vermin race of impure blood, that was to be mariginalized, round up, and exterminated.

[quote] as a vermin race of impure blood, that was to be mariginalized, round up, and exterminated

Musk said...

[italic]“What you actually have are violent, drug zombies with dead eyes and needles and human feces on the street.”

The more money spent combating homelessness, “the worse it gets,”[/italic]

Sounds pretty close to Nazi language, to me.

He is pure evil. Satan is his Master. Does the Pope speak out about this vile man???/

someone please blow him away.

Musk is not totally wrong. The truth of the matter is that many homeless people are unable to care for themselves.

The liberal solution to homelessness - increased funding which doesn’t help with problem - overlooks the fact that the basis of this philosophy of problem solving is the protection of a fundamental right of self-determination; as in, classic libertarianism. This is why the problem is so overwhelming in California; because the state’s political culture and identity arose from laissez-faire social libertarianism.

The solutions which rightwingers like Musk are proposing, however, are not genuine. He is only proposing it because he knows it will never happen (“Let them eat cake.”) Because the solution he is proposing and the one which most European developed nations have, which is why they don’t have homelessness on this scale, is socialism. A comprehensive womb-to-tomb welfare state. Which libertarians like Musk will never agree to fund. “Socialism for thee, but not for me.”

[quote] Sounds pretty close to Nazi language, to me.

It does, but it's not EXACT. I'm not trying to be a cunt here, but we need to be precise in these comparisons or we'll be dismissed with the Trump Derangement Syndrome bullshit.

[quote]His campaign has promised to “end the nightmare” of the “dangerously deranged” with a plan to “open large parcels of inexpensive land, bring in doctors, psychiatrists, social workers, and drug rehab specialists, and create tent cities where the homeless can be relocated and their problems identified.”

This is by all accounts, a socialist solution. Most real socialists - not wokists - would agree that a mass government plan to relocate and rehabilitate homeless is necessary at this stage.

The problem is, who is paying for it?

A lot of homelessness we see nowadays is a direct consequence of closing of mental institutions.

…and no, it does not sound like Nazi language. I suggest some of you actually acquaint yourself with what Nazi language sounds like. The language some liberals use to endorse medically induced gender transition in children is much closer to Nazi language than anything Musk said above.

Yes, and you can't re-open these institutions without some guardrails for humane treatment of these people. It's been so long, we forget how bad things were in these places. America is really bad at caregiving at the government-sponsored level and are really good a silo-ing themselves from things, so I am just assuming these poor people are going to be exposed to a chamber of horrors.

Too much discussion about homelessness centers around single mentally-fucked drug addicts, and not families facing homelessness. The zombies in San Francisco are not the average homeless person in this country.

[quote] He is only proposing it because he knows it will never happen

People like you really annoy the fuck out of me, R15.

You don't know WHAT will happen or won't happen, so stop speaking as though you are the know all, end all, be all of predicting the future.

You don't know SHIT.

This is an entirely different ball game from what this country has had to deal with before.

It's even different from Trump's first term, because Musk was not a co-President with Trump from 2017-2021, as he is now.

And Trump was also not beholden to Musk, as he is now.

Elon Musk is THE DEVIL. He is EVIL INCARNATE. Even worse than Trump.

And by putting him in such a position of power, Trump is inviting a "Force" that he will not be able to control.

So kindly SHUT THE FUCK UP with your "oh, pooh. it'll never happen!" bullshit.

You don't know JACK SHIT.

Homelessness is caused by overconcenration of wealth in people like Musk. It's actually a mathematical expectation you can have of oligarchy. Those shanty towns surrounding south American cities didn't just happen. They were made to happen by people like Musk and Trump.

And criminalizing them has never worked.

Afrikaans Musk would know a lot about shanty towns.

The closing of mental institutions being cited as a reason for increased homelessness overlooks several facets

#1 the American justice system with its emphasis on incarceration has created an entire class of people who are prone to homelessness

#2 the elimination of uncomplex, low-paying labor like manufacturing by exporting it overseas has removed an important source of sustainability for many Americans

#3 the rising cost of living and America’s failure to build adequate housing out of the self-interest of existing property owners (NIMBYism). We have a housing crisis because the haves have created one. Again, this is libertarianism, in which the right of the individual, the property owners, eclipsing the right of the community to have access to necessary resources and opportunities.

MSNBC host Joe Scarborough on Tuesday slammed “progressives” for backing “laws that allow homelessness” as he reacted to Daniel Penny’s not guilty verdict.

Penny, a 26-year-old Marine veteran, was acquitted of criminally negligent homicide by a Manhattan jury on Monday in the death of Jordan Neely on a New York City subway last year.

After Neely, a 30-year-old homeless street artist who struggled with mental health issues, allegedly began acting erratically on a subway car, Penny grabbed him from behind and took him to the floor in a chokehold that lasted several minutes, according to witnesses and video footage.

“The fact that some progressives have said, basically, ‘Let’s pass laws that allow homelessness,’” an incredulous Scarborough said Tuesday morning during “Morning Joe.”

“You look at San Francisco, you look at Los Angeles. As we’ve said all along, there’s nothing compassionate about that. There’s nothing progressive about that, leaving people with mental health problems on the street, no!”

“The mental health system in this country, again, it’s just grossly insufficient,” Scarborough said. “Whether you’re talking about New York, whether you’re talking about Florida, whether you’re talking about California, you have people walking about on the streets that have mental health issues.”

Scarborough argued the US needs to invest more in mental health resources.

“We need to spend more money as a society taking care of those who have mental health challenges and not just say, ‘Yeah, you can live on the streets,’” he said. “Bad things happen.”

The problem is when we start investing in taking care of people's mental health, the solutions oftentimes get dismissed as "woke". Even here.

America doesn't want to be a collectivist society, and probably never will. These are the consequences. We must love one another or die.

[quote] Elon Musk is THE DEVIL. He is EVIL INCARNATE. Even worse than Trump. And by putting him in such a position of power, Trump is inviting a "Force" that he will not be able to control. So kindly SHUT THE FUCK UP with your "oh, pooh. it'll never happen!" bullshit. You don't know JACK SHIT.

Elon Musk is no different than any other wealthy man who has had the emperor’s ear.

I dislike Musk but I personally don’t see the devil in a man who wants new ways to help and rehabilitate the homeless.

I see the devil in the man who allows this to happen to please wealthy donors.

[quote]new ways to help and rehabilitate the homeless

He doesn't. He just has the balls to say he wants them to go away.

R21 "The zombies in San Francisco are not the average homeless person in this country."

I'll take your word for it, but I've lived in SF for nearly 40 years (vast majority of my adult life) and that accurately describes the bulk of our homeless here. They are not, for the most part, families that had medical bills or some bad luck. They are mostly drugs addled zombies. That's based on what I see on a near daily basis.

[quote] I personally don’t see the devil in a man who wants new ways to help and rehabilitate the homeless.

We see through your 1%er AGENDA.

You're just terrified, because the more horror stories that come out about the extremely wealthy in this country, the more it will spawn people like Luigi Mangione, to be moved to action.

You'd better be terrified.

That genie isn't going back in the bottle.

The people are coming for the wealthy, and it's going to get UGLY.

And there are more of us than there are of them.

I left SF in 2018, but I came back after COVID for a visit and was astounded at how bad it had gotten. LA is the same. I will say, however, that if there's a kid involved in a homeless situation in SF, the response is RAPID.

R31 Like I said, the zombies in San Francisco are not the average homeless person in this country.

And billionaires hoarding money has nothing to do with the problem. I hope the fools who elected Dump soon realize that many of them are in the crosshairs too. Billionaires despise them at the core and only use them to gain more wealth and power. That’s Russia. That’s what they want the US to become.

R32 I am a Berniecrat who was a college Marxist.

I am not agreeing with Musk. Musk is agreeing with us. This is the socialist solution to combatting homelessness. The imposition of mass socialism at the expense of individual liberty for the collective good. That is what socialists really want. Killing individual CEOs merely affirms the importance of the individual over the collective.

You're on another universe if you think Trumpists are going to implement a humane social system for the mentally ill when he can't even manage to give a decent Thanksgiving dinner to people who paid for it. Jesus.

R11 is right. Mental institutions were where Hitler started the genocide. He didn't move on to Jews till he'd wiped out quite large numbers of people with disabilities and mental illnesses. After all, it costs the state money to keep them alive yet out of everyone else's way. Same argument as we see here.

But isn't the biggest demographic among homeless people women over 50? I mean, obviously, as we know from the GOP, they're useless too, but they're not exactly drug-raddled zombies threatening the fabric of society. The husbands who battered them, or ran off with the 25 year-olds and tied up all the assets, are the ones doing that.

The fastest growing demographic facing homelessness are the elderly, women in particular. They do not have mental health issues. They are powerless against the neoliberal behemoth that creates (and worships) multibillionaires.

Let’s see… what have billionaires and corporations done to help the ordinary people in the US… they’ve shipped manufacturing jobs overseas (to make more money for shareholders), they’ve lobbied for deregulation so they can do things like push OxyContin on the masses (to make more money for shareholders), they’ve kept the price of medications artificially high (to make more money for shareholders), they literally control who lives and dies by insurance (to make more money for shareholders)…

[quote] Mental institutions were where Hitler started the genocide. He didn't move on to Jews till he'd wiped out quite large numbers of people with disabilities and mental illnesses.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

We have a winner!

And if you don't think that other marginalized groups in this country won't follow, then you clearly aren't paying attention.

We haven't even touched the tip of the iceberg.

Wait until the Christofascists and Project 2025 lunatics get on board with Musk and Trump.

The Holocaust will pale in comparison.

Once again, people are not paying attention to the WORDS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF THEIR MOUTHS.

We are paying attention to the words coming out of your mouth. You Godwin everything which is why no one takes you seriously anymore.

This is what people are failing to understand: neoliberalism and capitalism require homelessness. Homelessness is an example of capitalism decadence. A society so decadent to can turn its cheek to the suffering of its fellow man.

A Democratic Party that embraces neoliberalism is not a Party committed to fighting homelessness.

[quote] Elon Musk calls homelessness a ‘lie’

Just think about this for a second, and try to make it make sense.

I am homeless. If I get arrested or kicked out of the hotels I stay in based on some new anti homeless laws I WILL follow in Luigi’s footsteps and make sure my last day on earth has a “positive impact”

R39 many of my neighbors living in the motels as well are older or injured folks with medical debt

[quote]This is what people are failing to understand: neoliberalism and capitalism require homelessness. Homelessness is an example of capitalism decadence. A society so decadent to can turn its cheek to the suffering of its fellow man.

And they convince the general population the homeless deserve it because Judeo-Christian America needs their heaven/hell narrative. They did it to us with AIDS.

[quote]But isn't the biggest demographic among homeless people women over 50?

• Approximately 61 percent of people experiencing homelessness identify as men. For every 15 women who experience homelessness, 24 men do.

• Despite representing a smaller share of overall homelessness, homelessness among people identifying as women is on the rise. Homelessness among women increased 12.1 percent since 2022 and 11.4 percent since 2015. his increase is most prevalent among individual women.

• Since data collection began in 2015, gender-expansive people (transgender people, people who are not singularly male or female, and gender-questioning people) have experienced alarmingly fast increases in homelessness – especially compared with cisgender people. Since 2015, transgender homelessness increased 217 percent (compared to 14.5 percent for cisgender people).

Where's Luigi when you need him???

What’s wrong about bringing back mental institutions for the very disturbed? And rehab for the addicted? Is living and dying on the streets a better alternative? Or getting choked to death on a train because you went psychotic?

Read the thread, r50. Nobody's saying it's necessarily wrong, but they will be inhumane concentration camps with poor service and Americans are grotesquely fine with that.

There is a TON of information out there on the causes of American homelessness, its demographics, its complex mix of people who could get their lives back together with 6 to 12 months of bridge assistance.. and people who cannot and never will.

Musk’s rhetoric on this is flat wrong, it’s fucking enraging and it’s highly disturbing. He’s playing to his fanboys with this wildly inaccurate take, which was his prerogative when he wasn’t preparing to take charge of chunks of the US government.

Building the institutions easy. Who the fuck do they think they're going to get to work in them. We have more people in prison than any other society, mainly of the same type who in their mental illness violated some law or other and we can't keep the prisons staffed. Are they just planning on expanding the prison industrial complex by criminalizing homelessness creating an even larger hell of incarceration with even less staffing and mental health treatment?

Remember that Elon grew up in a country that vilified an entire race of people and kept them under the white man’s thumb for a century. It’s easy for him to look at those with different circumstances and needs as less than human.

They didn't just do that, R54, they did crazy shit like make up fake countries (look up the Transkei and Ciskei), sectioned people off by race, and created areas for mixed race children of the white folks (look up District 6). The rot is verrrrry deep with those Afrikaners.

More… here’s a good fact based site for the homelessness epidemic in the US.

The more money spent combating homelessness, “the worse it gets"

Like gym membership.

He has enough money to end world hunger.

I hope a reckoning is coming.

R58, he has no duty to end world hunger.

Nobody does. How nice for all of us.

The comment at R28 made me think of this old political ad. I'm going to post it here for the young'uns who have never seen it.

BTW, it was only aired once. People were so freaked out by it that it was never shown again.

Didn't Jesus feed the hungry when he was on earth?

Republicans love Jesus, until it's actually time to act like Jesus, then it's just lip service.

One would think that as the co-chair of The Department of Government Efficiency, Elon would leverage the existing partially privatized penile system to get rid of ALL the homeless and provide more money making opportunities for companies that run private prisons, instead of trying to make re-education/concentration camps fashionable, again.

"Here’s an EBT card for all your motel, food , Methadone, and Narcan needs for the next 3 months, go to rehab or you’ll get sent to jail for being homeless, if you accept this offer."

I for one welcome our autistic South African Hitler

Ironic coming from a drug addict.

From r56's link:

[quote]72% of people experiencing homelessness were individuals, while the remaining 28% were part of households with children.

WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN has backfired.

This guy feels no compassion for humans.

Newsom clears out the drek.

"The governor's office did not respond to a request for comment about where the homeless people would go once the encampments were cleared."

Musk isn't an elected official. Newsom is.

R64 Hitler was probably autistic so you can just say “South African Hitler.”

[quote]The more money spent combating homelessness, “the worse it gets,” according to Musk.

At least as far as recent efforts go, Elon Musk is correct:

"Multiple state agencies spent nearly $24 billion on housing and homeless programs in the first five years of Gavin Newsom's governorship, but the number of people without homes continued to grow, rising by 20% to more than 180,000 in the most recent federal count in 2023."

Just like the laundries, R20?

Let’s face it. History has taught us that if there is any opportunity for abuse of others who are vulnerable, madmen will line up for the job and abuse away at will. Who else will sign up for these jobs, if not the worst of the worst? A long chorus line of Daniel Pennys is what we will get, and the rest of America will ignore the atrocities of it makes their dreary commute a bit breezier.

Debilitating mental illness is the stye no one wants in their eye, hence everyone will shut their eyes tightly, before they easily manage to look the other way.

It’s been this way since the advent of time, and no one will change it or even try to, at least in a highly regulated & humane way.

Yes. r71, just like the laundries in Ireland. And Ireland freed itself from its other coloniser, The Catholic Church, as a result of the exposure of the laundries and orphanages and schools and rectories. And thank fuck for that.

It's no accident that divorce rights, abortion rights, and marriage equality are all very popular in the Republic in the wake of what has been exposed. The place has terrible infrastructure and has a long way to go, but you have to remember there are fewer people in Ireland than in the five boroughs of NY, and there's a lot of recent and inter-generational trauma to work through. Will be interesting to see what this is all like in 50 years, and that's before we even talk about unification, which is too off topic for this thread.

[quote] History has taught us that if there is any opportunity for abuse of others who are vulnerable, madmen will line up for the job and abuse away at will. Who else will sign up for these jobs, if not the worst of the worst?

This isn't a problem in Nordic countries or other more collective societies like The Netherlands, Switzerland, and Germany. This is the price paid for so-called individualism.

This is what the Dems get for acting like the *insane* housing prices + lack of mental health care coverage + lack of worker protections and full-time secure employment weren't a problem that required immediate attention. They didn't want to create deterrents to commercial investment in real estate or build truly affordable rental units and then control prices because it would mean stepping on the toes of developers. So they put a bandaid on the situation in most large cities, paying above market value to cover "emergency" rent for homeless people for a a fee months to a year, but there was no way to keep them off the street after that because even if they got a job and took their meds, they were still totally priced out of the market. They could have made homelessness their #1 campaign issue in 2020 and blamed Trump for the prices pf housing skyrocketing, but they chose to talk about "racism" instead.

That’s rich coming the DOGE man who wants to fire millions of federal workers and cut Medicare and Social Security for the elderly. In a just world this clown would wind up living in a cardboard box under the 405 Freeway.

[quote] He is pure evil. Satan is his Master. Does the Pope speak out about this vile man???/

MUSK (not Trump) is the anti-Christ.

What is the date for Musk's defenestration?

[quote] …and no, it does not sound like Nazi language. I suggest some of you actually acquaint yourself with what Nazi language sounds like.

No. But thank you, Ma'am.

[quote]Building the institutions easy. Who the fuck do they think they're going to get to work in them.

Don't look at us.

It sounds like the disappearing administrative middle class will be turned into nurses, prison guards, and hospital attendants.

Homelessness and addiction are separate but sometimes related problems.

[quote] And Trump was also not beholden to Musk, as he is now.

On his first day in office, Trump could direct the FBI to arrest Musk, file any number of federal charges against him and imprison him indefinitely. Then he could move to nationalize Musk's empire through federal forfeiture penalties. Who would oppose him?! He just might not be smart enough to do it.

[quote] This is the socialist solution to combatting homelessness.

No it’s not.

[QUOTE] America doesn't want to be a collectivist society, and probably never will. These are the consequences. We must love one another or die.

If they wanted a collective society they should have limited immigration a long time ago and maintained the common American culture. Now there is zero appetite among the public to extend benefits to other cultural groups in the US that people feel they have zero in common with, and may not be pulling their own weight.

R83 has a point. Socialism works homogeneous societies like the Scandanavia where people are on the same page culturally, economically.

In diverse countries, everyone hates each other, so it doesn't work as well.

R93 almost has it right, but needs to replace "immigration" with "slavery"

White subcultures hate each other, too. Americans need to get out more.

R19, no, the Nazis scapegoat minorities and that's what you're doing with trans people. Picking on a minority that makes up less than 1% of the population to feel better about yourself

R83, there was never a "common American culture"

You gotta love old queens like R19, who have absolutely no use for children, until it comes time for them to be used as pawns in their anti-trans crusades.

R88 there actually was one, but once these massive waves of Hispanics started hitting the country in the 90s and beyond, it began to fail.

R90 we are not allowed to talk about the idea that the Hispanic inflow hasn't been a positive for the culture or country, or public behavior and standards. Be gone!

You mean the 90's, when most Americans were turning their backs on gay men who were dying of AIDS in droves? Nostalgia sure is one hell of a drug!

[quote] This is what the Dems get for acting like the *insane* housing prices + lack of mental health care coverage + lack of worker protections and full-time secure employment weren't a problem that required immediate attention. They didn't want to create deterrents to commercial investment in real estate or build truly affordable rental units and then control prices because it would mean stepping on the toes of developers.

[quote] So they put a bandaid on the situation in most large cities, paying above market value to cover "emergency" rent for homeless people for a a fee months to a year, but there was no way to keep them off the street after that because even if they got a job and took their meds, they were still totally priced out of the market.

R73 NAILED IT!

I've been saying this all along.

REAL ESTATE PEOPLE ARE THE PROBLEM!!!!

Homelessness was never a problem when housing was still affordable.

It's only in the past 25 years when housing prices started to skyrocket, that it corresponded to a rise in homelessness.

Real estate speculation, house flipping, real estate commissions, corporate purchasing of housing.... ALL OF THIS is the reason why housing has become unaffordable and why homelessness is an epidemic.

No amount of government task forces or committees on "solving" the homelessness crisis will fix the problem.

REAL ESTATE PRICES MUST COME DOWN.

Period.

"Multiple state agencies spent nearly $24 billion on housing and homeless programs in the first five years of Gavin Newsom's governorship, but the number of people without homes continued to grow, rising by 20% to more than 180,000 in the most recent federal count in 2023."

One of the most superficially obvious pieces here is that the US needs more housing. But this is the ultimate "drawbridge syndrome" where those who already own homes (including predatory corporate investors/slumlords) DO NOT want more housing built to enable others to become homeowners.

[quote] One of the most superficially obvious pieces here is that the US needs more housing.

WRONG!!!!!!!

We don't need more housing.

Build more houses, the corporations, house flippers and foreign investors will STILL buy up all the available housing and either sell or rent THOSE NEW HOMES at exhorbitant prices.

Real estate investors are like a fucking monster with an insatiable appetite. Build more, and they will keep buying more.

They have the money to buy. Regular people DO NOT.

What we need are PRICE CONTROLS.

END OF STORY.

We need to keep flippers, foreign nationals, corporations and hedge funders from buying real estate. Period.

These fuckers need to start meeting some Luigi Justice.

THIS is the real solution to the housing crisis.

"Deed Restricted" properties that put a cap on the price of a home.

We need more of this across the country, but I have not ever heard even ONE politician talk about this.

Why?

Because none of them have the guts.

It would solve both the homelessness crisis AND the affordable housing crisis.

The Corporate Dems would ensure anyone pushing this would get primaried hard.

Hell, look how much of a hard time the supposed "Squad" got here. We've all been trained to fall in line with the top-down messaging.

There is a story in today's St. Louis Post Dispatch of a 250 unit low rise housing project just north of downtown St. Louis called Cambridge Heights, completed in 2010. It replaced a high-rise, 751 unit public housing project that was built in 1952 called Cochran Gardens.

The new development is not even 15 years old and 75% of the units are vacant and boarded up because the St. Louis Housing Authority lacks the funds to do even the most basic maintenance, including cleaning and repainting the units when old tenants move out.

In suburban St. Louis, there is a 1800 unit single family home development called Glasgow Village, built between 1951 and 1956. These are small bungalows, averaging about 900 square feet with 3 bedrooms and 1 bath with basements. At one point, 98% of the housing stock was owner occupied. Now 600 of the units are currently empty and boarded up and will probably have to be torn down.

So, the housing stock is there. What isn't available is the funds to maintain these low income units. If rents are restricted to 30% of a tenants gross income, which probably barely covers the principal and interest on the construction loans, the money for maintenance, repairs and capital has to come from somewhere. And until that question is answered, there's going to be housing shortages.

[quote] This is what people are failing to understand: neoliberalism and capitalism require homelessness.

You got that wrong. It's Socialism that requires poverty including homelessness because if everyone was middle and upper class Socialism would cease to exist.

Socialism isn't a binary, on/off thing.

California has so far spent 24 billion dollars to allegedly combat homelessness. Is everyone here happy with this investment?

I will throw fuel on the fire. Late stage capitalism, post industrial rich countries, have arrived at a moment where some feral children are growing up without ethics, moral compasses, and life skills. They CANNOT manage much of anything. They were not taught by parents and teachers - and society at large - how to live safely and be well fed and have good hygiene and basic civil behaviour to be able to function - in a nice apartment building, in a secure job, etc.

This thread is one of the best discussions I’ve seen in 2024. No trolls, difference of views and opinions, but a healthy and informed debate.

My question…..how far will Elon go? I have never been more afraid. And there’s been no “leader” in my lifetime who has terrified me more. Maybe Putin scares me as much, but he felt far away — Elon is right here. With no guardrails. My existential dread is rocking me since I heard “DOGE”. He wasn’t even elected but now he is controlling the levers of power. Did y’all read what McTurtle says? Without using these words, he says we are facing WW3.

So…..I might get high now. Thanks for listening, carry on.

24 billion didn't go directly to the homeless. At least 80% of that 24 billion goes to agencies to "administer" these funds, i.e. it funds the state government bureaucracy, their medical benefits and their generous pensions.

If 24 billion was handed directly to the homeless, most of homeless wouldn't be homeless.

R101 People like Ellen have very black and white thinking, to the point empathy is removed from the equation.

R90 and r91 = not true. Maybe you want to mythologize the past and pretend everyone was always the same. Kind of weird for a gay person, but....whatever

[quote] So…..I might get high now.

Elton John would like you to stop smoking pot, R104.

R6 100% agree. Whatever happened to empathy.

Deport this mutant.

R108, I saw that thread last night, what an ASS!!! And I’m a massive massive fan. But to Elton??? “Shut the FUCK UP right now. People are fucking *struggling* to cope bro. Plus you’re just wrong and you’re talking like a hypocrite . Stop “harshin’ my mellow”” — that phrase dials in to a very specific subgroup in our culture from decades ago lolololol. Only maybe one of you will remember this phrase I think.

Elton needs to get off my jock!!

If homelessness started with Ronald Reagan closing down mental health centers, isn't Musk on the right track by talking about opening them up again?

He’s a disgusting freak

If Elon and Trump are talking up putting homeless people in camps, then you know that any money put into this will end up in their pockets. They don’t care about benefiting others or making America great again, they just want more money and power.

Um, NO r112. Part of the problem is that the conditions were *horrid*. And Elon isn’t even TALKING about the conditions these people will be placed in, much less the staffers. Often only monsters are willing to work in such conditions, or desperate people, too few good/healthy/stabile people.

In other words…..would you like to be thrown into a “tent camp” if someone calls you crazy? No A/C? Primitive filth? Abuse? Violence? Rape? Murder? Does that sound fun to you? If not, please know, anyone could wind up in one, so that means you and me kid. I work with incarnated people. It can happen to ANYONE. So imagine yourself in Elon’s camp.

Thanks but no thanks. I’ll pass on his Auschwitz vision for the solution….😬

Trump will be building deportation camps! In New York!

[quote] If Elon and Trump are talking up putting homeless people in camps, then you know that any money put into this will end up in their pockets.

Makes you wonder where the 24 billion already spent in Blue California have gone then, because we know they didn't go to the homeless.

R62, when was the last time Jesus fed the hungry?

So why would you expect Republicans to?

[quote]The language some liberals use to endorse medically induced gender transition in children is much closer to Nazi language than anything Musk said above.

Thanks for sharing, Chaya. Now fuck off to Libs of Tiktok.

The USA awash with guns...where's the shooter when really needed?

R104 this is the movement that's taking power.

R103 and their numbers will explode with all of the should be abortions walking around. they'll make for good customers and slaves in the prison system.

There's a reason why the "socialistic" homelands of all these immigrant billionaires supporting Trump (Must, Adelson, Thiel) all have such a high proportion of public housing. The housing market does not work.

He has a fucking nerve, calling someone else a dead-eyed, drug-addicted zombie!

Musk is a douchebag.

He’ shorts ketamine for lunch. You REALLY think he knows anything about mental health ?

R90

Are you fucking serious? Latinos and Hispanics have been in the southwestern US for centuries - Spain and Mexico ruled Texas. In fact, we stole their land from the Mexicans. For decades, white Texas judges were called alcaldes and there was a lot of intermingling between the cultures, as there is now.

This has been a very successful affordable neighborhood in Austin for former homeless. I’d love to see it expand.

I've seen that video and love that model. I have no idea how it would scale, though.

I guess there just need to be political will - it may never scale up to thousands of residents in one location but separate locations may work.

Denver has been doing very well with its tent city parking lots.

Drug use and mental illness are highly interconnected but people want to believe they're separated and that drug users are just degenerates.

Are you being sarcastic, R131?

It's all about money. To deal properly with the homeless is hugely expensive. Drug treatment is time-consuming and very very expensive, and still the rate of recidivism is high. Mental health treatment it time-consuming, and very very expensive, and long-term stability or improvement is elusive. (Most people need life-long medications AND counseling). Building and maintaining low-income housing that provides even the tiniest bit of creature comforts (bathrooms, running water, heat in winter and cooling in summer, lockable doors, a tiny kitchen) is very very expensive. Someone above wrote that California has thrown 24 billion dollars at the problem. Well, that is a drop in the bucket. $100,000,000,000 (200 billion) would probably be needed.

I have written about this before. Years ago, cities all across the US had the solution for the mentally ill and the alcoholics. It didn't solve their problems, but it kept the people more or less invisible. It was a huge stock of single room occupancy hotels, which were, in many cases, built as nicer hotels in the 1880s or early 2000s, and fell on hard times in the great Depression. Yes, they were probably death traps (because of lack of sprinklers). Yes, their amenities were minimal, and conditions were subpar. But they rented for about $10/day, just about the right price for a wino or someone mentally ill on some sort of state dollars to be able to afford a place out of the weather. In some cases, these SROS were able to create enough stability that the tenants could get treatment for active TB, they could receive mail and get government checks, they could get hooked up with services. These sorts of buildings all started to dump out their tenants in the 1980s and 1990s hoping to catch a wave of urban revitalization and people wanting to live in the urban cores of cities - but there was no replacement for these thousands and thousands of rooms which housed thousands and thousands of people more safely than what they can have now on the streets. Without that massive housing stock (such as it was) or any move to replace it, I don't see how Musk is going to magically solve the homeless problem

There's still a lot of SROs in SF, but from what you're saying, there aren't enough. And/or perhaps that's why the ones who can't manage to get themselves through a doorway after the shoot up are the most visible.

Why do we care what the world’s richest man has to say about this problem?

We're forced to care. He's got a role in government soon.

R136

What R137 said, and I can tell you first hand that he has a very menacing, destructive influence wherever he goes. He is currently destroying the region east of Austin, as well as down near Boca Chica along the Gulf Coast. He comes in making all sorts of idealistic promises about an environmental paradise then trashes the beautiful and important Colorado River (not the main one - we have one here in Central Texas).

Years ago, a friend of mine who is a brilliant, PhD in Aerospace Engineering but also reads up and knows about many other things said the dumbest thing to me: “Sandra Bullock and her Hollywood friends have ruined Austin”, which couldn’t have been further from the truth. She opened up a couple of sweet restaurants and shops and doesn’t even live here anymore.

Elon Musk and all his tech bros? THEY are ruining Austin. And it will never go back to the laid-back, friendly, easy to navigate, filled with dives and cool nooks and crannies, environmentally-conscious city it once was. This is why everyone should care what his plans are because he just steamrolls over every municipality in his way.

My most fervent wish is that he falls in love with Palm Beach and moves there.

The Hermes store on South Congress was a sight to behold on my last visit to Austin.

This dude is seriously wanting us to bring back the guillotine.

I’ve been there, r140. Just waiting for the sign. Then we roll them.

Is this what the master race looks like. The one on the left hosing it down is Jewish.

it's not good to sit around looking for a silver bullet solution. i think mental health asylums are in theory a good idea but american culture is so punitive and cruel. in addition to housing access and affordability, access to drug and mental health treatment, etc. - our public education system is not preparing young people for professional life, personal financial management, or basically any kind of basic civic/adult life knowledge. when andrew yang was talking about setting up a basic federal checking account for every citizen through the post office - through which any federal entitlements, payouts, social security, etc. could be received by default for free. i wish we had something like that including cheap financial advisory services through which you would be referred to other government programs available to you based on your particular financial difficulties. a lot of people probably qualify for help they haven't even looked into getting because they're so demoralized.

Be the light you wish to see in the world, R141.

Just give them what they want, drugs!

Musk will be creating more homeless with his plan for “hard times ahead” and “austerity” to balance the Trump budget.

R121-Frightening info regarding Curtis Yarvin and friends. Thx for sharing. We are way past entering the twilight zone-we’re in it and I expect anything from these power hungry pricks.

[quote] History has taught us that if there is any opportunity for abuse of others who are vulnerable, madmen will line up for the job and abuse away at will. Who else will sign up for these jobs, if not the worst of the worst? This isn't a problem in Nordic countries or other more collective societies like The Netherlands, Switzerland, and Germany.

R72, are you saying this has never been a problem in Germany? What about the 1930s?

Germany has 75 years of track record after they denazified, dear.

Has Musk ever been to Soweto?