How is it that lesbian bars don't exist and they're actually dying?

Having a woman-only bar has become very controversial in certain noisy circles….

Everybody fears gay men because that's what they see more as a threat around them.

Given how common certain people think lesbianism is, shouldn't we be absolutely indundated in lesbian bars and lesbian spaces?

What happened?

Don't straight women not want to be bothered by men hitting on them when they go to bars?

They should go to lesbian bars instead. That would be a win-win, I'd think.

Lesbian bars should be extremely popular right now!

What gives?

As a lesbian that frequents gay man bars, they are more fun and honestly I feel safer in those spaces. I am welcome and have no fear. At the lesbian bars- there are always straight guys roaming around looking for me there. At lesbian bars guys actually pick up on me-wtf, it sucks. At straight bars you catch that straight guy eye but they're less likely to advance but not at the lesbo bars. I told one guy why are you talking to me and he said why are u gay... again wtf...and let's not even talk about the MTF trans that just eyeball the hell out of you. I grew up a certain way and can look through an unwanted advance but damn it sucks giant balls .lol... I've had great times at girl bars and as an older woman try to connect with the young ones and tell them my story and want to hear theirs and those times are good but for the most part males make it an uncomfortable space.

R6, that sucks. I'm sorry your spaces have become less safe for you.

R6 KNOW your place. Don't come over here and tell us what to do or how to feel.

It's not our fault that lesbian bars are filled with straightmen, straight women and all sorts of drama. That is NOT the fault of gay men.

R8, she is responding to a question asked on this site.

No need to be an asshole.

Gay male bars are increasingly full of straight people too.

R9 that is NOT the fault of gay men.

She can go fuck off.

Actually gay bars in small and medium sized cities are dying too. I was never much of a drinker, but during my twenties, and even into my thirties, gay bars were where I found my peeps. That was before the internet, but the nice thing about bars was that you were forced to talk to the person you planned to take home, at least for a few minutes, before you left the bar together. The hope was that starting into the person's eyes could help in screening the serial killers.

[quote]At the lesbian bars- there are always straight guys roaming around looking for me there.

WHAT??? As a gay man who has been to lesbian bars, I thought they HIGHLY discouraged men in there. Even as a gay man I felt like I was getting the evil eye of why are you here.

r9 You're responding to the OP who I've narrowed down is either one of the following:

1. An angry bisexual man who has been constantly rejected by women because he's bisexual. And a cunt.

2. An angry straight man who has been constantly rejected by women because he's ugly. And a cunt.

3. An angry gay man who has been constantly rejected by everyone ever for being a cunt and blames his mother for bestowing upon him so many unlikable cunt genes.

4. The straight Croatian who was rejected by a lesbian and would get into sparring matches with LipstickLesbian for being weirdly obsessed with lesbians. He was red-tagged a few months back for being a cunt.

Either way. OP is just baiting lesbians on here for our attention. Because he's a sad and lonely bitter cunt.

I remember LipstickLesbian and her various spats with posters, but I have no memory whatsoever of a straight Croatian.

R6 I am sorry this happened/happens to you :-(

R10 go play in traffic, you raging CUNT.

I don't know why the bars died. The weekends in Columbus, Ohio used to be crazy. At least 6 gay bars and a couple lesbian clubs: Tradewinds, The Eagle, The Garage, Herbie's, Wall Street, Summit Station, The Grotto... where did everybody disappear to?

I have read that the decline in lesbian bars was/is mostly due to lesbians being less likely to spend money going out drinking than other demographics.

Social life has changed. You young people are unaware how big the desire was to actually meet up and talk and laugh with friends before WhatsApp and social media. You met to catch up - now you don't need to. That's a big factor. (I think it's getting a renaissance but meeting is more of a treat than something you do. Then: COVID. The restrictions changed our behaviour. Then of course, sex: it all has moved to apps so this incentive is gone too. And it's not just lesbian bars. In the medium to respectable sized city where I live in Germany, another gay cafe closed, which now leaves one. In total, and this has a very mixed attendance. Oh and another factor in Germany is inflation. Everyone is holding their pennies together.

r14 See the below thread. It starts at 202. I'm 209 and 215 in that thread. I'm also going to self-correct. He wasn't red-tagged (at least not on that account).

R16

Same this side of the pond. Online took over a lot.

Heterosexual women and gay men (half the population) don't fetishize lesbians-- so NO it is not everyone who fetishizes lesbians. Stop saying everyone when you mean heterosexual men and bisexuals.

You know what, I did some more digging (beyond DL...don't ask) and OP is the straight incel troll who was red-tagged 2 years ago. He would constantly make misogynistic posts thinking DL is a "safe space" for hating women because it's mostly gay men, here. Below is a link to some of his best work where he posted a postmortem photo of Bianca Devins who was murdered by an incel.

OP likely has a shrine in his basement to Elliot Rodger. He's a psychopath who hates women which is why he's targeting the lesbians of DL. He is not a gay man. Punch and delete immediately.

R6 seems fos to me. Like some scary pretend post on tumblr.

[quote]KNOW your place. Don't come over here and tell us what to do or how to feel.

Lesbians are and have always been welcome on DL.

R18 is it really that true? When I'm busy during the week I don't socialize online with friends. I might occasionally send a voice message commenting on something or other, or if we haven't seen each other in a while, asking how they are and suggesting plans to meet up. I DO need to talk and catch up with them.

I think the difference is it's easier to socialize casually with strangers online now. THAT'S why people are going out less. But the friends that you know? Of course we still meet up.

Thank you r2 4th. Lesbians have always been welcome here.

Lesbian exclusive bars usually fail because they don't make any money. Nursing one beer all night doesn't pay the rent. And then there's the drama.

Gay bars have dried up mostly because you don't need to go out to fuck. You can find love now on any mobile device. The days of cover charges, bad drag shows and 12 dollar well drinks in plastic cups are pretty much over.

My favorite Boston bar is long gone but the A-house in Ptown still manages to exist. The Pied Piper had been going forever and is now closed.

Of course gay men and women still exist, they just do other things. The world has evolved and moved on.

Sad!

[quote]But the friends that you know? Of course we still meet up.

r25 Nah. We're DMing each other funny relatable reels on IG because we all work from home now and no longer have the energy to put on pants and go outside.

Attempts to do so will be made and swiftly abandoned over the slightest setback.

Gay male apps, spaces, events, bathhouses are not in existence due to annoying straight people visiting or using-- although the revenue might help a little. It is because gay men put in the work. Why do lesbians feel like they are owed lesbian bars when many simply don't go (or they don't spend a lot of money at the establishment)? Many lesbians admit after they are coupled up they tend to be home bodies. Either way many lesbians just go to gay male bars which is fine anyways.

r4 Why would a straight women want to be hit on by women??

because all the under 25 lesbians identify as transmen or nb pansexual queers now. under 30 maybe. i think women are a lot less likely to stand out against group trends and with an adjacent identity to lesbian existing that is more fashionable and maybe less controversial (assuming lesbian identity can be interpreted as trans excluding) it makes sense to me.

What is it with all these lesbian threads lately? Got a problem, OP?

R28 I hate this trend of glorifying or at least advocating for introverts or introverted behavior online. No it's not wrong to be a little shy and to feel socially inept sometimes and not feel like going out, in fact I tend towards it, but lately on sm I see alot of videos outright glorifying not wanting to have social interactions at all and bristeling at the idea of **GASP** going out and dealing with people...newsflash dumblefucks: THAT'S NOT HEALTHY. These are the same people that are on all kinds of medications because they feel lonely and empty because THE INTERNET doesn't fill the void.

In this era of work and political correctness, an older, an older lesbian who regularly frequents a lesbian bar would probably be labeled an alcoholic or an alcoholic in denial. Socially, lesbian bars are on the wane, while gay/lesbian AA meetings continue to thrive. You can download the Pink Cloud app—the first 90 days are free—and it will show you that there are gay lesbian LGBT-based AA meetings everywhere.

work = woke-ism

Has the DL become infested with lesbo trans obsessed cunts? They are spamming this GAY MAN'S space with their fucking bullshit day in day out

[quote]No it's not wrong to be a little shy and to feel socially inept sometimes

r33 That is not what being an introvert is, at all. We do socialize when we want to. We just rarely want to because our social batteries drain faster. In short, 90% of the time, we don't be wanting to be bothered.

Introverts have always existed, the social media have just created a platform for like-minded individuals to gather and be entertained over shared experiences and thoughts. That's it. There really is no need to pathologize it.

Here's another I find funny and relatable. Because it's true as fuck.

^*the internet and social media

[Quote]Lesbians are and have always been welcome on DL.

We have some laid back lesbians on here who like to hang out and participate. Not a problem. But this new influx is here for one reason only and that is to push their anti-T cult. Who the fuck do they think they are. They are worse than the prancing ponies.

Today, women only spaces have to include men dressed as women. We cannot have lesbian bars anymore. This wasn't the case when I started dating in 1997.

R37 it shouldn't be pathologized, but it shouldn't be celebrated either, at least in those cases where it means rarely if ever going out and being socially phobic as many of the videos portray.

It's not wrong to push yourself a little to be more social sometimes. Hell half the time I have to do it myself, and almost always I end up being happy I did. That's all I'm saying.

[quote]It's not wrong to push yourself a little to be more social sometimes.

r41 I disagree. Pushing yourself to be social when you don't feel like it is also not healthy, I'd argue. Because then you're associating socialization with obligation as opposed to leisure.

It makes it a chore and, subsequently, generates a negative feedback loop of always seeing socialization as a task so you never get the opportunity to build an organic desire to socialize for your own enjoyment and on your own time.

Go sit on a wooden shoe, you cunt R15. Your gaping asshole would probably swallow it right up

Atlanta used to be chock-a-block with lesbian bars. Now there's only one left, that I know of.

R17 yes because lesbians are C H E A P !!!!

THey try to use coupons for cocktails

[quote] Lesbians have always been welcome here. Lesbian exclusive bars usually fail because they don't make any money. Nursing one beer all night doesn't pay the rent.

This has to be the most hilarious sequence of three sentences written on here.

Switching gears slightly.. Women focused bars might have an upswing for the queer crowd. LA just added The Ruby Fruit. Google lists it as a lesbian bar.

As of this summer Long Beach has Watch Me! Sports Bar, "California’s first sports bar dedicated to women's sports". Surely a lesbian magnet. I think it narrowly lost the title of first women's sports bar in the US by one opened in Portland OR.

WTF is the Queer crowd, R47? It sounds like a money loss

How can a think "not exist" and, at the same time, "be actually dying"?

^thing

the queer crowd is the 28% of Gen Z that identifies as LGBTQ. 1/2 of that group are bisexuals.

We definitely have way fewer spaces for various members of the LGBTQ+ community than we did 20, 30 or 40 years ago. And lesbian bars have been hardest hit - less than 20 in the entire country.

Social media, apps and the like had an impact for sure. Why go through the hassle of shopping at the meat/fish market when you can order in?

The younger generation seems to be more integrated with straight culture and is able to socialize and hook up in mixed venues.

Another thing that's really impacted various gay/lesbian bars is how astronomically high commercial rent prices have gone. So many bars were situated in downtown areas, and as people moved back to cities, condos were built, and rents/prices surged, a lot of bars were pushed out of the areas where they'd thrived for years.

Trans people clashing with all-male bars has shut down at least a dozen spots across the country (I believe the Wrangler in Denver was one).

Social media for sure has played a role in all these bars closing and few opening but it's not the only reason.

[quote]Your gaping asshole would probably swallow it right up

Homophobia now allowed on the gay website if it's typed by some blue haired fat lesbo marinating in her own personality disorder

R42 I mean, yeah, that's were we disagree. I feel that way of thinking is very representative of our times. And I don't think it's a good thing. People pushing themselves (again, only when they might be unhappy about some aspect of their lives) can be very good indeed.

Bars are dying in general arent they?

Why are lesbos so cheap?

As R47 mentions, ruby fruit in LA is a women / trans / gender fluid focused bar, and is busy every time I go past it in the evenings, seems to be a good model for a successful bar that embraces some changes in how LGBTQ people socialize. Very mixed crowd.

As regards gay bars being invaded by straight people, the solution seems to me to be having gay porn on screens in the bars, and a darkroom seems to be a good deterrent lol.

As for some of you, you can’t blame trans people for every single imagined problem you have or you see, get a fucking grip. If you don’t want gay bars to close, attend them and spend some money there occasionally, it’s good to get away from the keyboards and be sociable.

The LGBT+ bar in my neighborhood is like sitting what I imagine must be very similar to a psych hospital's emergency room. The saddest part is it's just no fun. Joyless and creepy young people.

It sounds like you'd fit right in, R58

LGBTQ+*

No actually R59 my generation knew how to havre fun. Most of us wouldn't trade it for all the righteous indignation in the world.

We did too R61. Yours sounded pretentious and like a bore and you all looked really old too

Straight men don't love the lesbians who are commonly patrons of lesbian bars. Straight men like hot, straight women who happen to have sex with each other. Sure, maybe there's a smattering of women who look that type at some lesbian bars, but it's not the norm. Straight men have never frequented lesbian bars en masse (or really at all) because they "love lesbians."

Straight men like lipstick lesbians, not butchies.

Having bars cater to "trans" isn't going to create a diverse "queer" gay or lesbian crowd because historically since year one tranny bars exclusively attract creepy "straight" tranny chaser guys who wouldn't be caught dead in a gay bar!

The trans don't go to bars to meet other trans! It's sad and hilarious people don't know this fact!

By the way, Miss OPEE

Either lesbian bars don't exist

Or they do and they are dying

It can't be both.

[quote] The trans don't go to bars to meet other trans! It's sad and hilarious people don't know this fact!

Trans women want to meet straight dudes or dudes that like trannies.

[Quote]The trans don't go to bars to meet other trans! It's sad and hilarious people don't know this fact!

Only "sad" and "hilarious" to the freaks who got had by the anti-T cult. Log off X and get a fucking life.

There is no "anti-trans" cult. There are people who believe in science and biology and people who don't.

[quote] There is no "anti-trans" cult. There are people who believe in science and biology and people who don't.

If this were true R69 we would have a lot of science and biology related threads that didn’t concern trans people. But we don’t. Instead we get thread after thread, day after day, always the same shit, you weirdos are obsessed. And it is cultish.

[quote] If this were true [R69] we would have a lot of science and biology related threads that didn’t concern trans people

Oh is that the way it works?

Yea actually R71 it is. If you’re saying those commenters primary interest is science and biology, then this site would be teeming with science/biology based threads. But those are vanishingly few. However we do have a tonne of anti trans threads, the logical deduction is that you weirdos are only concerned with being anti trans, and your supposed scientific interests are just a false touchstone. It’s like the way you’re all also supposedly concerned with women’s rights, yet before you losers came along the only threads about women’s rights were about whether or not female tennis players deserved the equal pay as the men’s for fewer sets (spoiler alert, DL consensus was no, altho I said yes). You’re disingenuous, in the most transparent way.

Youre an idiot. No one said it was their "primary interest ". R72.

To try to convince people that a biological man is a woman doesn't work on anyone but the batshit insane. Go peddle your nonsense elsewhere.

It's a cult. You people have been fucked with by Russian disinfo. You are in the same boat on this with Trumptards. Leave DLers alone.

[quote] There is no "anti-trans" cult. There are people who believe in science and biology and people who don't.

R73 that’s what the above means sorry.

[quote] Go peddle your nonsense elsewhere.

Take your own advice x.

[quote]To try to convince people that a biological man is a woman doesn't work on anyone but the batshit insane

You type autistic. Learn to manage your cognitive overwhelm when you are confronted by life's many complexities.

Once again, a reasonable discussion has been completely hijacked by a trans tangent.

Thanks Mao/r19. Goodness, the thread title. No wonder I didn't open it! I also really try to avoid dealing with trolls. I still have no idea what the seacow business is all about and I'm just fine.

R78 Seacow was a particular troll poster who started a lot of posts.....too long a history to detail here, but their stranglehold on the board seems to have diminished if not disappeared.

r40 Huh?? Gay male bars are full of women too. Legally nothing can be done unless it is a members only thing. Either way that isn't the reason lesbian bars don't exist.

So the lesbians on here want to ban anyone male from their lezzie bars but they want no doubt to continue waltzing into gay men's bars? Lol.

Gay men continue to go to gay bars regardless of annoying straight women going at the end of the day (unless they over run it ), so this idea a lesbian can't manage 5 men in a lesbian bar is ridiculous. It seems lesbians want to always blame an outside party for not being able to maintain a community.

r3 Most lesbians are actually bisexual and they rarely date women.

Straight men don't actually fetishize lesbians. Outside of porn and threesomes they don't think about lesbians-- whether those women are feminine or not. Lesbian culture only appeals to lesbians.

Either way to answer the OP, it is because gay men actually support gay male bars/groups. That is the only answer. It is not the responsibility of non-lesbians that you think fetishize you to support lesbian bars. You would complain if they did anyways and cry lesbophobia, appropriation, or fetishization.

R84 nails it.

Lezzies should cough up and spend in their bars if they care about having their own bars. They are businesses not charities.

Isn't Danny Thomas one?

You can only dance to Anne Murray, Melissa Etherige and Pink for so long until your legs give out.

[quote] Straight men don't actually fetishize lesbians. Outside of porn and threesomes they don't think about lesbians-- whether those women are feminine or not

Straight men think about porn and threesomes alot and both count as fetishization. And they absolutely think of them outside those two things, albeit in a sexual manner as well.

I think you have lesbians confused with gay men.

[quote] Trans women want to meet straight dudes or dudes that like trannies.

Not the “it’s MA’AM” and anime obsessed types.

It's been awhile since since I lived in LA where there were several lesbian bars. I stopped going because of the smoking ban, and the owner wanted to increase profits so she visited the gay bars and encouraged the trans folks to come to her bar. It changed the vibe completely. The trans basically took over the place and used the the restrooms as hook up spaces.

I think a big reason the lesbian bars went out of business was due to the Supreme Court legalizing gay marriage in 2015. It was amazing to see so many of my bar buddies start dating & then rush to get married. Others were in serious relationships and could finally get married. Many of my married friends had kids. It's hard to hit the lesbian clubs when you have toddlers at home. Now, almost 10 years later, I know about 6-8 of those 2015-2016 marriages that have ended in divorce.

You fucking liar R90. At least make an effort with your cult recruitment efforts.

R92, what are you talking about? Cult recruitment efforts? I shared my experience. Period.

The stereotype is that lesbians ae cheap and won't spend enough money and are also homebodies preferring potlucks.

Gay men are notoriously emotionally damaged drunks. However, notice over the past few years how many gay bars have closed as more young gaylings have decided that gay bars are passe.

R54 Well, everyone is different. I know that when I'm unhappy, it is best that I stay to myself until I get myself together. I'm not very pleasant to be around when I'm unhappy and I also don't like dragging others down into whatever I'm going through. I prefer to be around people when I'm at my best instead of sucking the energy out of the room because I'm down and don't really want to be there. But again, that's just how I am. YMMV.

Are we sure lesbian bars ever existed? Maybe they're just hypotheticals.

R96 I wouldn't know. I've never been to one. In fact I've only gone to one gay bar (Soho in Ferndale, MI). I got a drink and left after like 20 minutes. Actually, I can count on one hand how many bars, of all types, I've gone to in my entire life.

Going to nightclubs/bars has never been interesting to me. If their survival was contingent upon my attendance, bars would all go out of business immediately.

r88 My point is there isn't an interest in real lesbians or lesbian culture. It is in the context of "har har two women is hot". The OP is saying why this "love" for lesbians doesn't lead to straight men going to lesbian bars. Also why in the world would a lesbian want straight men patronizing lesbian bars to begin with??

The point is lesbians are responsible for the failure or success of lesbian bars. Stop blaming other groups.

Oh well yeah I agree with you R98. I don't think straight men are interested in lesbian culture either.

[quote]How is it that lesbian bars don't exist and they're actually dying

OP, are you drunk or drunk and stupid? If the don't exist, they can be neither dying nor thriving.

[quote]For a population whom everybody loves and fetishizes, especially straight men, I just can't make heads or tails over how much they don't struggling and don't exist?

You overestimate the love.

[quote]Meanwhile, gay men whom everybody else hates, have thriving businesses, bars, apps, neighborhoods.

You overestimate the hate of hay men.

And you overestimate the thriving of gay bars and gay neighborhoods.

The lesbian libido isn’t as high as a gay man. Outside of sport bars, people go to bars to fuck.

[quote]Only "sad" and "hilarious" to the freaks who got had by the anti-T cult.

So, insults and butt hurt aside, you can't deny my assertion, huh?

Look, I'm old and have worked in nightlife for many years. I see reality, unlike your fantasy-based hissy fits.

How can lesbian bars not exist AND be dying?

Something can’t die if it doesn’t exist.

[quote]Today, women only spaces have to include men dressed as women. We cannot have lesbian bars anymore. This wasn't the case when I started dating in 1997.

Well, HELLO, join the club. Gay men cant have gay spaces anymore either since it became fashionable in the 2000's for Bachelorette Party invading our space because "gay men like to dance, it's their safe space and gays will automatically be our besties" BS assumption.

My sister is a lesbian, and some of the wildest nights I’ve ever had have been as her guest at lesbian clubs. You girls really know how to have fun. Unfortunately, that was in the 90s. We’re older now and neither of us has been to a club in years. My sister has younger friends who hardly ever go out because the women’s scene has dwindled to almost nothing. They have friends round for dinner instead.

[Quote]I'm old and have worked in nightlife for many years

A scowling pot-bellied bull dagger in an Alpha Industries jacket doing security. And no doubt "manhandling" the young lesbos when frisking.

Totally unrelated but since I assume some actual lesbians are reading this, watching a really good dram/sci-fi series on Apple call Invasion. Has a surprising lesbian love relationship throughout it. Not the stereotype either, very subtle at first.

Cripes, who wants to sit home in their underwear and cruise Scruff? It was the drama and carnival-like atmosphere of the music, lights, crowds, etc. that was the attraction. And the thrill of being in a crowd of your own kind for once.

For what it's worth, I already have OP on block. I can see the threat title but his original thread starting post is not there. I think more of us should be blocking trolls and thus mass-starve them of the attention they seek.

Lesbian bars WERE dying, from 200 or so thirty years ago to less than twenty as of 20/20.

Like the stock market, the numbers go up and down:

2020 the year, oh dear! Not 20/20 the show, you know.

1. Lesbian life isn't centered around drinking and dancing. 2. Nonbinary men iand trans women have hijacked their spaces.

Thank you for your kindness, r7. I didn't mean to be offensive just sharing my experience. Gay men are always welcome to lesbian bars. It's they straight guys invading that make it shitty. Usually it's a solo guy so you think he's maybe a gay but no he's not. I've never met a straight guy at a gay man bar, only wonderful gay men. So in those spaces I know I'm safe because gay men don't want what I have and that makes me feel safe. Plus it's fun. And the one I like to go to does have the semi nude sexy guy videos on the TV screens dancing so that is good to keep the straight guys out. I've been to cities where there are men only clubs or nights and wasn't allowed in even though I was with my gay guy friends, Amsterdam, Mykonos and New Orleans. I do know that liquor sales are down. People don't buy booze as much as they did in the past and sales of those ready made seltzers are going strong. Some venues have a lesbian nights and that is usually a good time. But lesbians aren't usually outgoing but the younger ones are sweet and approachable. The first time I went into a lesbian bar no one smiled or spoke to me, I was wearing a dress so I'm thinking that was the reason. They probably thought I was a straight girl! That was back in the 90s and things were definitely different then. My best friends are gay men and straight women. Some of my gay guy friends complain to me that their straight girl friends try to hit on them when the cocktails take over and they don't like it either. I love my gay brothers and life would be so dreadful without them.

[quote]1. Lesbian life isn't centered around drinking and dancing.

To be honest, neither was it gay men. The bars were a place to meet one another before the internet. Drinking was the social lubricant to get people talking to one another. Many gay bars never had dance floors going on. Especially in older times where locations were more low key and under the radar instead of open to the street with rainbow flags everywhere.

Good discussion here on the /actuallesbians Reddit. OP wants to open a lesbian bar in her city. Lots and lots of advice ensues.

The problem with lesbians is they don't understand themselves and other women. They've always tried to imitate men, gay or straight, because deep down they are ashamed of being women who love women. Bars are a male thing. In straight bars, the only women you see are the slutty/loser types. Sometimes a woman will go there with her husband but most of the women who hang out in bars are low quality. Gay men love bars because they are men. Lesbian and bi women should focus on creating other spaces for women (if the government will let them) that don't have anything to do with bars. Stop trying to do what men do all the time. This is why most lesbians are miserable.

r115 and r116 A lesbian coffee shop would be a more profitable setting. Most women don't drink too much even if they wanted to due to body.

r116 We're always trying to imitate men? Deep down we're ashamed for being lesbians?