We haven’t seen a pardon as sweeping as Hunter Biden’s in generations

[italic]Trump will not be able to undo the pardon when he takes office. And its sweeping nature means the Trump Justice Department will not be able to reopen the long-running criminal probe of the president’s son, according to Samuel Morison, a lawyer focused on clemency who spent 13 years in the Justice Department’s Office of the Pardon Attorney.

Like Love, Morison said the only comparably broad pardon he could think of was the one that went to Nixon.

“It is an extraordinarily broad grant,” he said.

While the sweeping nature of the Hunter Biden pardon is almost without peer in modern American history, in another respect it does mimic a recent precedent started by Trump himself.

In Trump’s first term, he sometimes justified pardons of his political allies by saying they were the victims of unfair prosecution — a posture that broke norms. Past presidents, Morison said, had not generally claimed that pardon recipients were victims of miscarriages of justice; instead, they tended to emphasize that pardon recipients had accepted responsibility for their actions.

“It is to maintain trust in the criminal justice system,” Morison added.

But Trump deviated from that norm — and on Sunday, Joe Biden followed. He justified the pardon by saying his son had been unfairly “singled out.”

“I believe in the justice system, but as I have wrestled with this, I also believe raw politics has infected this process and it led to a miscarriage of justice,” the president said in a statement that accompanied the pardon.

Trump, for his part, is expected to harness the pardon power aggressively when he returns to office. Most notably, he has promised to pardon many of the people convicted for their roles in the attack on the Capitol of Jan. 6, 2021. In criticizing the Hunter Biden pardon on Sunday night, Trump again invoked Jan. 6 defendants, calling them “hostages.”[/italic]

There was a time when I thought something as drastic as this isn't how adults behave, but that was also when I thought being found liable for rape and convicted of multiple felonies would be disqualifying for a presidential candidate.

Those days are gone, so all bets are off. Lie about whatever you want. Shame no longer exists. Take and use as much power as you can for as long as ypu can. These are the new rules of the game and we are fools if we hold on to outdated norms of political behavior.

Exactly, R2.

Savor this "win," because it's the last one that Democrats will have in a very long time.

He’s got 49 more days. I hope Joe goes full on crazy and plays with that immunity power too. Fuck ‘em all and tear it all down.

Good. Now Biden needs to issue blanket pardons to every single member of the J6 Committee and most importantly, every single Federal employee!

That’s bullshit. The Repubs won’t let the worst nominations go through. The House Repub majority is so tiny it may not be workable until April.

A blanket pardon to the J6 committee is an interesting idea. Forget the federal employees though.

Bullshit is no more Dem victories.

Horseshit r3. The idea that any victory is permanent is silly. Yes, for now the Trump Cult is riding high and will be sure to do a lot of stupid crazy shit in the next few years, all of which you will cheer, but eventually it too will fall.

Constitution, shmonstitution.

Less than two until another important election. Keep that in mind.

..two years…

None of this matters. As usual, Democrats are held to impossibly high standards, and Republicans are held to no standard whatsoever.

The Republicans will break rules, change rules or make up completely new rules whenever and wherever convenient. Nothing Biden does will give license to ,or prevent ,Trump from doing exactly as he pleases.

turmp should fuck himself

We need more of this.

LOTS more.

Anything to piss off the MAGATS and make their heads explode, is fine with me.

Zzzzzzzzzz

Good for the Biden family! Love it.

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Trump is still not in jail for being the mentor of an attempted coup and his people are still talking about pardoning the insurrectionists of January 6th.

If republicans are so desperate for justice, they could start by respecting the law and justice system themselves first, instead of trying to weaponize the American constitution against Democrats.

good, good, good, good. Go, Joe! Fuck those motherfuckers - they sure as hell are going to do everything they can to fuck us.

GOOD

They gave him no choice. They were determined to break Hunter, and Joe along with him.

I do hope he goes, what is it the MAGAs say, “HAM”, for the remainder of his term. At least as far as what he can do to protect himself and the nation. The courts may hold, but I’m not willing to bet it all on the Aileen Cannon’s among them.

THIS is the crux of the matter: "Joe Biden’s 'full and unconditional pardon' of his son is deliberately vague. Donald Trump and his allies have long fixated on the president’s son, and Trump has repeatedly pledged to use his second term to investigate and prosecute members of the Biden family. Conservative commentators have engaged in parlor-game speculation that Hunter Biden could be charged with bribery, illegal lobbying or other crimes stemming from his foreign business activities and drug addiction."

It's why the pardon is one of the most sweeping in decades: Biden's acting to intentionally thwart Trumpist efforts to absurdly continuing attacking a mildly guilty guy whose crimes pale compared to, say, Charles Kushner (a.k.a. "Jared's daddy"), now appointed as our ambassador to France. The GOP would continue using Hunter as a kickball incessantly for the next four years, and we ALL know how long Trump holds onto grudges. (See, e.g., his whining about Hillary's emails earlier THIS YEAR.)

If anything I'm hoping Joe goes even further! I'm not sure how much he can get done in the next seven weeks, but literally anything he can do that Trump CANNOT undo – period – is worth it, at least if it truly thwarts Trump's fascist aims.

[quote] It's why the pardon is one of the most sweeping in decades: Biden's acting to intentionally thwart Trumpist efforts to absurdly continuing attacking a mildly guilty guy whose crimes pale compared to, say, Charles Kushner (a.k.a. "Jared's daddy"), now appointed as our ambassador to France. The GOP would continue using Hunter as a kickball incessantly for the next four years, and we ALL know how long Trump holds onto grudges. (See, e.g., his whining about Hillary's emails earlier THIS YEAR.)

Biden has been in Washington politics for a VERY long time.

He knows how to play the game, which is why he has out smarted Trump at every single turn.

This is the reason why he is the only Democrat who has ever beaten DUMP.

R6 I have stopped believing Republicans will do anything to stop Trump. Sure, they might stop a few things from time to time, but they have all fallen in line 99% of the time and that's not going to change. They love the power and won't suffer any of the I'll effects of bad decisions so they don't care.

Insane

On the one hand, I could possibly rationalize this because the only reason he's being targeted is that he's Biden's son. On the other hand, he wouldn't have been able to commit the crimes he committed if he weren't Biden's son.

However, whether justified or not, Biden has now done something so far reaching that we're all going to suffer. cheeto and the rethugs will do as they always do - wait for the dems to do something, then carry it to an extreme which benefits them.

It's like virginity. The first time is always the one which take a lot of coaxing. But, after that, each time is easier and easier until you're just a whore, darlin'.

cheeto and the rethugs are going to start pardoning people right and left, rather than making presidential pardons an uncommon practice.

Has MTG released a statement?

They may have been determined to break Hunter, but he was enriching himself by using his father’s power and he did break the law and was convicted by a jury. And Biden did promise not to do this while he (and Harris) were running.

All-in-all, a good day for Trump.

For R24

Joe did this to benefit his son and his family. He isn't going to do anything on such a scale for the good of the country.

New angle: It’s Trump’s fault.

So what?

That's not an angle, r28, that's fact. It's no coincidence that Biden announced this the day after Kash Patel was nominated.

Biden has seen the writing on the wall over the past weeks. Trump has appointed only slathering cronies, publicly hell-bent on persecuting the "opposition" (Gaetz, Bondi, Hegseth, Patel). That would include himself and Hunter. I truly believe had Harris won, this pardon wouldn't have happened, and they would have been willing to see Hunter follow through with the legal system. I don't think Biden was lying when he originally said "no pardon".

Joe has now lost a wife and two of his four children early. He nearly lost a third, from serious addiction. I'm sure Hunter is always a knife's edge from relapse, he's a sitting target for those who want to persecute Biden and his family for beating Trump in 2020. He didn't want the persecution to continue so he used the standing power he had.

Trump would let his kids off for murder. Give me a break.

It is certainly an angle. The fact that you agree with it doesn't change its nature.

The fact is that Biden said he would not pardon Hunter before the election. Trump’s victory was always a possibility. If he meant to preserve the option to change his mind, he shouldn’t have said that. He didn’t.

^should have said that

[quote] They may have been determined to break Hunter, but he was enriching himself by using his father’s power and he did break the law and was convicted by a jury. And Biden did promise not to do this while he (and Harris) were running.

No Trump Cult member, including yourself, has any real moral belief about any of that. None of you actually give a shit about any of that, and will spend the next four years defending all of it as righteous, pure and true.

I am not a Trump cult member. I despise Trump.

That doesn’t mean I have to reflexively endorse everything Biden does.

[quote]The fact is that Biden said he would not pardon Hunter before the election. Trump’s victory was always a possibility. If he meant to preserve the option to change his mind, he shouldn’t have said that. He didn’t.

As stated in r30, it wasn't simply Trump's victory that spurred it. Sure, there was always the chance he'd win, and Biden could have hedged his bets and stated so. But I don't think he made this pardon decision until the past week or so, after seeing the fast parade of psycho clown appointments, most of them touting seriously crazy revenge and retribution agendas. I don't think anyone really foresaw that happening, Joe included. I'd bet that's what's behind this decision.

I am not at all surprised by Trump’s psycho clown appointments. It’s why so many people called Trump a threat to Democracy. Claiming surprise now is disingenuous.

r36 are you ruffled by the fact that Trump pardoned his criminally corrupt in-law Charles Kushner, then just appointed him as Ambassador to France, to boot?

Will you be just as outraged when he pardons all of the criminal J6 convicts, on January 20th?

The scale of Trumpian abuse of power is breathtaking. Joe's walkback on Hunter is irritating (I'm a Biden supporter and that was my response) - but hardly noteworthy given what we're about to witness over the next four years. And - it was a deeply personal pardon. Hunter has severe issues that could kill him. His father is sparing him a serious politically-based persecution - which is what the POTUS power of pardon is for.

Biden must pardon Ella Emhoff for her knitwear fashion crimes.

He should do something to protect his student loan relief policies. Of course, Trump wants to overturn that.

[quote] R36] are you ruffled by the fact that Trump pardoned his criminally corrupt in-law Charles Kushner, then just appointed him as Ambassador to France, to boot?

Yes, of course.

The Hunter Biden witchhunt was total bullshit. He was charged with tax evasion, which millions of people get charged with every year and they don't have congressional hearings about it. Republicans behaved like obnoxious assholes over these charges and now they're pissed Hunter is pardoned? Good. Let them scream and yell, it was ridiculous to begin with.

I gave heard elsewhere the argument that what Biden did was wrong, but it is nothing compared to what Trump will do.

It is not a good argument.

We can criticize them both.

Biden has not ruthlessly threatened or gone after Junior Mint or Kicky Kushner, for all of the things they've done. Kamala didn't make legal persecution of Ivanka or Eric Trump a CENTRAL part of her recent election campaign, they way Trump and his proxies did with Hunter. And are STILL doing - Kash Patel has make it a central theme to go after Hunter and the "Biden Crime Family". He's now the nominee for FBI Chief.

You can criticize the Hunter pardon, sure, since it is a clear walkback. But don't even try to equate the two POTUSes and their agendas for family pardons. Or what is intended by them. Biden has prime reason to fear for his son's safety, mental and physical. Trump had no such fear from Biden or Harris, regarding his family or cronies.

Gee, R33 - and how are you going to feel when they start instituting their 100 day/Project 2025 plan which Trump claimed to know absolutely nothing about, even though he’s already appointed 4 of its strategists to his cabinet?

Huh? How do you feel about that?

[quote]“I have never seen language like this in a pardon document that purports to pardon offenses that have not apparently even been charged, with the exception of the Nixon pardon,”

Hold my quarter-pounder.

Biden should pardon Betty Broderick next.

OP, go suck trump's tiny pecker, good luck finding it.

The Hunter Biden investigation was not total bullshit. He made literally millions of dollars suggesting that foreign companies could gain access to his father by hiring him. It turns out this is not actually illegal, but it probably should be. Investigating his foreign business ties was perfectly reasonable.

Might prosecutors have graciously decided not to prosecute him on the lesser crimes that he did commit? Perhaps. But a party that just largely endorsed prosecuting Trump on falsification of business records should probably not criticize Republicans for not showing forbearance. If one side is going to pursue dubious criminal charges, it should expect the same from the other.

It is true that Hunter would probably not have been prosecuted if his father were not the President, but is it wrong to hold the President’s family to a higher standard? Not clear to me that it is. Especially when the family member based his career on his father’s power.

R46–Your argument is childish nonsense. Criticizing Biden is not endorsing Trump.

[quote]he wouldn't have been able to commit the crimes he committed if he weren't Biden's son

So you have to be a president's son to commit tax evasion and false statements?

Then I guess I'm in the clear to do those things all I want.

So were fucked R2. Jesus.

So, according to this article Biden is as corrupt as Trump. I'm not surprised that politicians are corrupt, but now they don't give a fuck that we know it. Fuck it, there are no heroes in politics. They all fucking suck.

r50, You make some good points. I thought the prosecution of Trump for falsifying business records was overkill. Not the other prosecutions but that one in particular.

My understanding is that the falsifying business records was included because it was so clearly linked to covering up the payments to Stormy Daniels as a way to avoid questions in the weeks before the election. But we also learned that Trump falsified business records on all of his real estate taxes to avoid taxes. There was an article recently that listed quite a few people in jail in NY state for that exact crime.

This isn't a "sweeping" pardon. Good lord, people need to chill over this.

R55 As someone who investigates financial crimes in the banking industry I can confirm there are numerous people who were customers of my financial institution who have been convicted of money laundering and tax evasion and other financial crimes and have not only been penalized with significant penalties but have received prison sentances. There are various factors involved and it is about the vastness of the activity/period involved, the dollar amounts involved, and also the number of criminal conviction counts. If Trump were a typical businessman and not a celebrity/politician, his fat orange ass would have been sentenced to 5-10 years in prison.

[quote]he wouldn't have been able to commit the crimes he committed if he weren't Biden's son.

Hunter wouldn't have been able to lie on the form you have to fill out when buying a gun, attesting that you were [italic]not[/italic] under the influence of drugs... unless he were Biden's son?

He wouldn't have been able to not file his tax returns... unless he were Biden's son?

Let's be clear here. Hunter was prosecuted for these trivial matters — matters that no other person in the United States has been prosecuted for so aggressively that Congressional opponents blew up a negotiated settlement in which Hunter admitted guilt, paid fines and did community service in lieu of jail time, all out of political spite — [italic]because[/italic] he is Joe Biden's son.

Influence peddling, while unseemly, is not illegal. Or Jared Kushner would be in prison for taking $2 BILLION from the Saudi Royal Wealth Fund. His father would still be in prison. Ivanka would be in prison for the preferential treatment she received from the Chinese government, receiving IP protection that takes normies a decade or longer to receive, if they can even find the right law firm in China to represent them [italic]and[/italic] the right Chinese government official to bribe. Vanky got it done in record time. Don't try to tell me that it wasn't because she is Dotard's kid.

We still have no idea what crimes Junior High and butthead did during Shitler's first term. Christ, we have Junior on video using cocaine... and nothing. Not a peep.

But they bleat on and on about how Hunter called his father to impress business associates... but none of the associates have said that it worked. In fact, they say that Biden went out of his way to make sure they weren't thinking Hunter had influence. The MAGAts have tried to make Hunter an issue because they know that it hurts Biden in ways that most people cannot comprehend unless you've had a kid fall victim to addiction, watch him spiral out of control, and finally get his life together.

The only fault I'll issue to Biden here is that he fiddle-farted around too long and let this charade continue despite the fact that Hunter took responsibility, owned up to his "crimes", paid his back taxes, with interest and penalties, and both explained and apologized for the gun form lie that no one is prosecuted for unless the gun is used in another crime (and there have been absolutely no allegations that the gun was used for anything, let alone another crime). That Biden reached as far back as he did to shield Hunter was no admission of guilt, no cover-up, nothing other than simply putting Hunter out of reach for Trump and his band of lunatics.

Biden should be issuing these pardons like handing out candy on Halloween because the shitstorm that is coming from Trump and his goons is going to break this nation. Lord knows Trump is going to pardon some really bad people as though their murders, assaults, rapes, child sex trafficking and exploitation is nothing worse than... lying on a government form.

R57, are you equating money laundering and tax evasion with falsifying business records when you are the sole owner of the business? I don’t think they are at all the same.

Yes, r55, the hook for turning Trump’s misdemeanor into a felony was the uncharged crime of election interference. That certainly makes the crime more serious.

But it was a nonetheless a case that almost certainly would not have been prosecuted if the perpetrator had not been Trump and if he had not been guilty of other things that could not be prosecuted

I don’t mean to open an argument over whether or not he should have been prosecuted. I only brought it up to counter the argument that Hunter’s crimes were only prosecuted because he was a Biden. Sometimes, Presidents and their families are held to higher standards and sometimes people who skirt the edge of the law are held to account for minor crimes that can be proven.

[quote]The only fault I'll issue to Biden here is that he fiddle-farted around too long and let this charade continue despite the fact that Hunter took responsibility, owned up to his "crimes",

It’s actually worse than that. While running for re-election Biden made a big show of being Mr. “Let Justice run its course without fear or favor,” allowing the investigation and prosecution to proceed, then after the election he breaks his word and issues the pardon. That undermines justice far worse than if he had said nothing. Or even than if he had simply shut the whole thing down right at the get-go.

I have no problem with Joe Biden issuing this pardon. not the pardon itself nor the breadth of the instrument. If he had only pardoned the "crimes" that Hunter has been convicted of (and yes, we knew he was probably going to do that) then the FBI would have been turned loose on him all over again, this time under circumstances that his father could not address.

This was always a bullshit witch hunt. And if Trump can shatter every norm and break every law, then Joe Biden can do this.

Fuck the GOP. Fuck Trump.

R59 Both. Sole proprietors and business executives were prosecuted similarly. It was about the depth of the crimes. A so-called first offender of one or two counts probably wouldn't see prison, but a first time offender of multiple crimes over many years and numerous counts usually do get prison time as well.

Those who assert categorically that the investigation into Hunter was a witch hunt should consider how they would react if a Republican President had a son who was paid millions of dollars by foreign companies for no discernible reason other than the fact that his father was Vice President at the time. Would the Democrats not investigate that? And if in the course of that investigation, evidence of other crimes was discovered, would they drop the “minor” charges as a courtesy?

The Republican abuse was not conducting the investigation, but HOW it was conducted with leaks and credence given to unreliable witnesses, and baseless attempts to implicate the President without solid evidence.

Joe made the correct move. Hunter would be treated unfairly under a Trump regime, his prosecution has already been politically motivated. I hope Joe pardons as many people who Trump considers “enemies” or “undesirables” as he can.

Good. Fuck the corrupt GOP if they have a problem with it. Hypocrites.

I don't know, R63. Did the Democrats investigate Jared taking billions from the Saudis while his father-in-law, a Republican, was president? Did they investigate Ivanka getting fast-tracked on Chinese patents while her father, a Republican, was president? Did they investigate Uday and Qusay Trump for the "alleged" bribes they were collecting from foreign government officials in the form of stays at the Trump Hotel?

Because if they did, I missed them.

Hunter was an addict. He committed crimes while an addict. He was convicted of those crimes. Pardoning him is the kind of enablement which helped him end up where he did in the first place. Joe's guilt over his parenting took precedent over sound behavior regarding his son, during the presidency and now. I hate Trump as much as anyone alive with half a brain, but what's wrong is still wrong even if it's a Democrat doing it.

R67, who the fuck cares at this point?

The Republicans engage in all sorts of villainy and corruption and always get away with it. I'm so sick of supposed "Democrats" so willing to throw others under the bus with their purity tests.

Well it would have been downright criminal to expose that ass and beautiful meat to the predation of violent criminals. I've asked Joe to send him to me under house arrest for a couple of weeks. I'll soon put young Hunter on the straight and narrow.

[quote] Did the Democrats investigate Jared taking billions from the Saudis while his father-in-law, a Republican, was president?

Yes, they did.

Btw, Jared is investing billions of dollars for the Saudis beginning after Trump left office. That’s a bit different from “taking billions of dollars” while Trump was President. I’m sure he’s collecting hefty fees, but he is actually investing their money in real estate projects which is his career. Hunter was being paid for nothing.

More pardons before ya' go, Joe!!!

I despise sanctimonious twats like R67.

Biden was absolutely justified in pardoning his son given the clown show the Justice Department is going to evolve to in the coming months. Lest we forget the clown train of pardons Trump in his final Presidential days. And what parent would leave their son incarcerated the crosshairs of Trump's vendetta of retaliation.

Jeffrey Toobin has just written a book on Pardons

(Wishful thinking?)

[gift link]

He should pardon people that Trump wouldn’t but we’re on his side. He’d be a doormat that actually gives more leeway than thought and intentionally. It would so confuse them.

This board is the exact reason we won't have Dem wins for a long time. Lemmings think this is a sports game and that your team got a win and it reflects on you. Trump fuckers and Biden fuckers all the same shade of FUCKED.

R53 Only sensible comment. These politicians are NOTHING like the rest of us and they will sell out for a dollar or a dime or to enhance their political interest. Biden's kicking us all in the teeth on the way out taking his convict addict kid and running. Trump is a dictator but Biden is a liar and worshiping any of these clowns is why we'll never see change.

You go, Dark Brandon!

But both sides! Both sides

LITERALLY could not care less about the fact that Biden did this. I hope he finds more people to pardon in the most sweeping manner possible. If we are a country with no standards, then let us be a country with no standards.

R63?

DIE IN A FUCKING GREASE FIRE!!!!!!!!

Guess what?

WE DON'T CARE ANY MORE.

I don't give a flying fuck if Democrats break every law in the book.

They would STILL be more honest than Donald Trump and his MAGAT cronies.

So NOTHING YOU SAY will make me feel bad about Joe Biden pardoning his son.

NOTHING!

No Choice: The son gave the father no choice in this legal issuance. The son was about to sign a book deal and told the father he was not going to censor himself. It isn't just what the son was charged with now, the wording of the father's legal issuance goes back 10 years which covers dirty dealings in another country that involved the father. As far as the gross personal stuff goes, one can feel sorry for the son when you consider what the father did to him and another sibling when they were young. Hunter Biden/Joe Biden/Ashley Biden

Good for him. I don't care that Biden formerly said he wouldn't pardon his son. He has the same right as anyone to change his mind. The game has changed, and the president (finally) knows it.

This is justified; it is not hypocritical; it is not merely self-serving. I don't endorse anyone saying this is an action that will have far-reaching consequences for Democrats. Having seen what Republicans are capable of and how their base approves of their actions reflexively, I would scoff at anyone holding Biden to a standard of perfection. He's done enough good for the country and is leaving with dignity; let him protect his family.

Do not give one flying fuck about this inane and ridiculous trauma. Do not give one flying fuck about some inane and ridiculous loss of innocence. Fuck off, fuck your mother's rancid twat, fuck your whining, fuck your preening, fuck your motherfucking purity. Nobody is impressed by one fucking minute of it. You yourself will have entirely forgotten this whole incident within three day.

I predict it, cause I know it.

The troll cursing at itself looks unhinged and disturbed. What a good look for the party of peace.

There's a party of peace? Oh, honey, you really are counting on that, aren't you?

This was about protecting his son - the middle finger to Trump was just a bonus.

Is the pardon really an "extraordinary political act" given what was likely to happen to Hunter Biden under the Trump 2.0 administration? No.

Again, we see rules and expectations of Democrats we'd never ask Trump or Republicans to adhere to in a million years.

Grow up!

He fucked up the country so bad it ran to Donald Trump. His first gift to The Donald.

Now he gives him the biggest happiest Christmas gift ever.

R14 says more of this, as the GOP dances in the streets after all 3 houses of Govt , firmly in hand and in charge of the SC for the rest of your life and Dems are ecstatic because a crack addict goes free with immunity.

More of this may be the best we have.

Jared Kushner received over $2 BILLION dollars from the Saudis after serving 4 years as a so-called presidential advisor.

The Chinese government granted a total of 41 trademarks to companies linked to Ivanka Trump by April of 2019. That was likely worth $50-100 million dollars.

As shitty as what Hunter Biden did, it was when his father was not in office .

People need to stop thinking that if something makes MAGAts angry, it's automatically a good thing. That's no different from right-wingers who act against their own interests and then crow that they've "owned the libs".

The concept of the “blanket pardon” is extremely dangerous. Until now, it had only been used to end the possibility of prosecuting Nixon. Now the precedent has been set that it can be used to protect favored people from any and all criminal liability for any and all crimes they may have committed on the grounds that any prosecution of them would be “political.”

In effect, this extends the President’s newly-created immunity to anyone the President wishes to cloak in its protections. All the President’s minions are now effectively immune.

That this perversion of the pardon power was carried out by someone who claims to be standing for the Constitution and the rule of law makes it more disturbing.

The counterargument is that Trump would have done it anyway. Maybe so. But now those who would denounce that abuse stand on far weaker ground.

When they go low we go low as well.

Biden lied then threw his party under the bus to save his drug addict son, and likely a major criminal as well, a son who certainly played his part well in trumps win,

The fact that Biden bypassed his advisors and pardon office and did this unilaterally despite his obvious personal entanglement justifies similar personal abuse of the pardon power by his successors.

As far as I’m concerned, Biden’s decision to run again, his unilateral decision to anoint Harris against the wishes of the party, and this pardon have completely eviscerated the standing of his Presidency.

Evidence that very old men should not be trusted with great power.

R96 Biden gave a wide pardon to Hunter because he is very concerned (and rightfully so) that Trump and whatever crooked AG he installs will find every thing under the sun, legitimate and illegitimate, to go after Hunter with. Democratic presidents do not sic their AG against their adversaries, Republicans have and now will.

Senior Staff: WTF do you mean he just by accident pardoned everyone?

[quote] as the GOP dances in the streets after all 3 houses of Govt , firmly in hand and in charge of the SC for the rest of your life and Dems are ecstatic because a crack addict goes free with immunity.

They were going to do that anyway, with or without the pardon.

[quote] People need to stop thinking that if something makes MAGAts angry, it's automatically a good thing. That's no different from right-wingers who act against their own interests and then crow that they've "owned the libs".

And? What's your point?

It gives THEM satisfaction, and it gives ME satisfaction.

Anything that pisses the MAGATS off is a good thing.

I really don't care what you think.

I want to see more of this.

[quote] The fact that Biden bypassed his advisors and pardon office and did this unilaterally despite his obvious personal entanglement justifies similar personal abuse of the pardon power by his successors.

What part of THEY ARE GOING TO ABUSE THEIR POWER ANY WAY do you not understand??

Trump, the right-wing Supreme Court, and Republicans WILL ABUSE THEIR POWER.

This is a given.

So we might as well do the same.

That is the name of the game, going forward.

Anyone who doesn't realize this is just a willful idiot.

[quote]The fact that Biden bypassed his advisors and pardon office and did this unilaterally despite his obvious personal entanglement justifies similar personal abuse of the pardon power by his successors.

MARY! Mary Mary. Nearly ALL of the recent Presidents have pardoned family members - what did you say when they did it, were you as hysterical then?

Jimmy Carter: pardoned his brother, Billy Carter.

George H.W. Bush: pardoned his son, Neil Bush.

Bill Clinton: pardoned his brother, Roger Clinton.

Donald Trump: pardoned his son-in-law's father, Charles Kushner. This guy is a CREEP deluxe, he hired a hooker to entrap his BIL and then sent the video to his own sister. A psycho.

[quote]As far as I’m concerned, Biden’s decision to run again, his unilateral decision to anoint Harris against the wishes of the party, and this pardon have completely eviscerated the standing of his Presidency.

We are fiddling away while Rome burns. While Trump sits down at MaL appointing rapid partisan hacks with no qualifications. Which act - a family pardon or demented chaotic leadership for four years - has more impact and effect on the American people and our future?

[quote] While Trump sits down at MaL appointing rapid partisan hacks with no qualifications. Which act - a family pardon or demented chaotic leadership for four years - has more impact and effect on the American people and our future?

Republicans have been doing this all along.

Deflection.

They scream about minor offenses by Democrats, while they commit the most heinous shit imaginable.

They're fucking awful, but they're very good at making it seem like Democrats are the bad ones.

R96 👏

The whole premise behind highlighting and prosecuting Hunter Biden was to give significant more weight to a Democrat politician family member bad actions, to counter the bad and illegal activity by Trump and his family bad actions that are massively worse.

Exactly r103. Spot on. It's not that Hunter is innocent - he isn't, not by a long shot - but that his persecution by the opposition was of such an obvious and enormous personal level.

You didn't see Biden or Harris make the Trump Family crimes the central piece of their campaigns. Biden just spent four years in office - how much of it was spent berating Don Jr, chasing the crimes of the Kushners, or setting the DOJ dogs on Ivanka for her China business dealings? Absolutely 0%.

Waaahhh- no fair!

The Republicans are loving this. Watching Biden attempting to outTrump Trump. And the Dems tripping over all their left feet trying to make excuses. At this point both parties are circuses. But the American people are watching all of this from the premium priced seats which they can't afford so they are being forced to put it on their credit cards. But I'm an elder gay so I don't give a fuck. You get to a point where you realize everything becomes six of one half a dozen of the other in a democracy like ours.

R106, we're not making excuses. If you don't already understand that this is a president taking steps to batten the hatches and mitigate future damage before the assured chaos and years-long revenge fantasy of the next Trump administration, I don't think I could convince you. It's similar in principle to his authorizing Ukraine's use of US long-range missiles in their war. Yes, it's on an entirely different scale, but it's the same defensive maneuver. I only wish Biden would do more to prepare the ground and create some more safeguards before he leaves office.

But I'm sure if you watch TV plenty of Dems are making excuses. Of course there are those who don't and feel betrayed. But you've got the lunatic Democrats like Whoopie who say 'Stop calling it a lie!' It's not a lie!' And as you know this pardon goes back to '14 pardoning crimes we don't even know about. And where were all the people before the pardon who were saying he was targeted because he was a Biden. I don't know of any. Because they're now saying the DOJ was being weaponized. Which is what Trump was always saying and Dems denied it.

And yes I've loathed Trump since '80 and I can't even look at his name on the ballot. But I held my nose voting for Harris and it WAS a vote not for her but against Trump. I was suspended on this site many times for harshly criticizing her before the election. Although an asshole said it was because of my harsh rants against current trans ideologies. But it happened as well right after my Kamala rants. Some people on DL are so stupid. As I've said before I thought gay men took no bullshit and had the ability for more nuanced thinking but boy have they turned into Dem ideologues. Magas-Trump can do no wrong. DL Dems-Kamala can do no wrong. Jesus Christ. Now they've got to figure out who the people were who Kamala made very rich who were trying to lose her campaign.

' I only wish Biden would do more to prepare the ground and create some more safeguards before he leaves office.' How? He ignored his best military advisors and his withdrawal from Afghanistan started his administration off on a very bad foot. Nice of him to support the Ukraine but throwing money at things is not always the best strategy.

R108, DL's resident, arrogant, pompous, know-it-all blowhard is in the house, ready to lecture us mere morons with his/her/its vast of knowledge of anything and everything.

You're an anonymous poster on an internet message board, asshole R108. Nobody knows or cares who you are (or who you seem to think you are).

Can it with the "I'm vastly superior to you clowns" attitude.

[quote] DL's resident, arrogant, pompous, know-it-all blowhard is in the house,

Just the one, dear?

R109 you're just pissed because R108 was right.

I feel bad for R108 because often times here, truth tellers get censored and shouted down.

They get called all sorts of names like Troll, or Boris, etc.

And now when it turns out that he/she was right, they get trashed again.

Because you all hate being called out when you're wrong.

Well too bad!

R108 had no right to trigger DL members by saying things they disagree with. The FF is there to avoid upsetting progressives. R108 s not the victim here.

Jill Biden says: "Of course I support the pardoning of my son."

Go, Jill!

Time to give ZERO FUCKS about what Republicans think.

This place lost it's spark and color when Trump won in 2016 r108. It had been declining before but that was the point this site took a dive off a cliff and descended into a geriatric schoolmarm orgy of shitlibbery. Trump broke some of you and you've been in rage fog ever since. Both parties love genocide, both parties love corruption and the ruling class. Americans are screaming for real political representation.

Putin hacked Trump into office in 2016. He lost in 2020. And Elon Musk hacked him into office in November. Turd didn't 'break' anybody. He's a slo-mo car wreck. Not even in office yet and the sleazy scandals are already starting.

He's getting everything he deserves and soon he'll be dead. It's entertaining.

HUNTER'S COCK MUST BE FREE

To the poster who said Hutner was guilty of enriching himself off his father's job....that is not what he was convicted of. Tax evasion and gun possession - even after the charges were initially dropped.

"...and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offences against the United States, except in cases of impeachment."

US Constitution, Art II, Sec.2

That's it. 21 words. I don't hand-wring over it.

I can bemoan, banter, bewitched, bothered and bewildered about whether or not I think the President SHOULD grant, or has denied, a pardon, but to what avail?

My own personal opinion doesn't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world, but, as an American, do I agree with Biden pardoning his son?

You're Goddamn right I do. And all the false outrage by Trumpers is laughable.

And yes, I'd feel the same way if that despicable, gelatinous agglomeration of shit-cells Trump pardoned his child(ren) for a federal crime(s).

The Pardon Power doesn't require a moral test, or moral consideration, before its exercised by the POTUS.

Should it? Probably, but that ship done sailed and it ain't coming back.

I'll laugh out loud when, on January 20th, 2025, even though his indictments will by then dismissed and he isn't in any legal peril, Trump, for good measure and to troll, grants himself an Art II Pardon, even prospectively to include him committing crimes in the future while he's in office.

Truly, that would be of a piece with his famous remark, "I could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and wouldn't lose any voters" or whatever the fuck he said.

The USA! USA! is done. Over. Turn in your scorecards.

I find it apt that the whole house of cards was exposed and brought down by Grifting Carnival Barker Trump who wouldn't know truth, honor or real courage if they come up to him and introduced themselves.

'Both parties love genocide, both parties love corruption and the ruling class. Americans are screaming for real political representation.'

I agree with you. Something has been broken. And I don't think it can be fixed. But as I said I'm too old for it to matter. Though I might still with great misfortune live a longer life than I ever wanted to. As sleazy as Trump is he has tapped into something very important in the American psyche busting open wide all our failures and rot on both sides. We have ended up deserving him and I'm not going to start crying, cutting out of my life people I love and have been good to me who voted Trump, and hate half the country for voting for him.

Tell it to the Marines, r36.

Trump is about to dismantle our federal government, and you care more about the freedom of Hunter Biden, pursued as a private citizen---and not for treason---by the full force of the United States government and whether or not President Biden broke his promise not to pardon his son.

Well, ain't you just a pillar of the community.

I actually saw a magat I knew from high school who I’ve now blocked post a fake picture of hunter biden as a child molester saying how angry he was that Biden pardoned his son for child molestation. It’s like they live in their own reality

I do believe Hunter needs a pardon as I wouldn’t want him harmed of killed but I still think he’s a spoiled brat hypocrite who took advantage of his own father’s good will and made fools of us Dems. He’ll end up OD on heroin when he gets his dead dads money/insurance payouts.

He is still by default infinitely better than any of the Trump children.

TL;DR === OP, Ford's pardon of Nixon was HUGE!

I hope Biden fires up the autopen and turns on the pardon minigun.

R125 I am playing miniature golf later.

Nah, this is Democrats finally - FINALLY - playing by the same rules Republicans do. Fuck the high road. It gets you nowhere with them. The upside is MAGATs like to focus on shit like this which hopefully means they’ll be distracted from doing other, more harmful shit. I want Joe to pardon anyone else the MAGAT brigade has vowed to fixate on.

Too bad Biden can't pardon Trump's cronies on the condition that they turn evidence on his orange idiot ass.

I don’t mind.

Now that several weeks have passed and the dust has settled - I can 100% see why Biden did this and made it go back 10 years. Once Kash Patel was announced as FBI Director and they are still talking about "Hunter's laptop" and had expressed that they were going to rigorously pursue Hunter - well you can understand. Whether or not he was guilty of anything it doesn't really matter. It was the harassment they intended. He would have had to spend millions of dollars defending himself against the possible charges and prolonged court cases over years and years which significant disrupt lives and cause a great deal of stress and angst - not to mention continuous public scrutiny. I'm pretty sure that without the pardon they would never have rested until Hunter had committed suicide.

So now that it's a few weeks on, I can understand why Biden did it.

biden should troll magats by pardoning reps and senators for being taitors

Trump is basically a con-man failed corrupt businessman who has been able to fabricate a contrived public persona as a successful and smart businessman on his Apprentice reality TV show. At least 1/3 of the public who voted for him see him wholesale as that person. He has always gone after his adversaries and perceived enemies. The reality is that he sicked his AG Bill Burr on his adversaries and in his second term he will have no guardrails or pushback. Biden pardoning his son makes sense since he understands Trump will be relentless in a never ending pursuit of destroying Hunter in order to punish Joe Biden.

When we do it, it is the correct thing to do. When they do it , it is the evil thing to do.