Hey, DLers - Do You Have "Friends" Who Really Have Zero Interest in You?

Yes, this is unfortunately common. My observation is that it has become more common since the advent of social media, but I could be wrong.

How are you, OP? Did Thanksgiving go all right?

OP, that’s normal. People talk about themselves or about Trump.

NEXT!

R1 Thank you for asking! Yes, I had a good Thanksgiving.

With some people, I'm the one who goes on and on -- with others, I'm the quieter one. It depends on the personality of the person. My two best friends over the years are true introverts. It's actually difficult for me to draw them out -- they would prefer to listen. My sister, OTOH, rattles on for so long that back in the day, I used to put the phone receiver down, go to the bathroom, come back, and pick up the receiver without missing a beat. Every now and then, she would say, "You're not even listening to me!" And I wasn't. But I developed the skill of being able to repeat the last five or so words she said and repeating them back to her, so I convinced her I was actually listening.

With some people, the exchange is fairly equal. I like them the best, because they're interesting.

Suck it up, OP. Stop the self-pity and just meet some new people. You'll be glad you did.

R4 It's not self-pity. It's more bewilderment. It's not like I have this overwhelming need to spill my guts. It just seems rather odd to me, not to mention self-centered, to hang out with a friend and not have that friend want to even acknowledge your existence.

R4 I consider myself an "extroverted introvert." I mostly keep to myself, but in social situations, I make an effort to be more outgoing and talk to everyone, ask them questions, show interest in them. If I'm with someone who's introverted like me, I especially try to show interest, but I don't push to the point where I make them uncomfortable. I find that when you show interest in what's going on with them, they tend to appreciate it and open up more.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around people who are only interested in talking about themselves.

R4, not seeing any self-pity in OP's post--just frustration. And as far as just meeting new people: easier said than done, and even if done, many of the new people may be equally self-absorbed, because craven self-absorption seems much more common these days. But that's a valid and useful suggestion.

OP, if you have Meetups or social groups in your area, that might be a good start? I would not waste further time with the existing self-centered friend set. Your time is too valuable. Unless you find value in spending time with these gabbers? They might have good qualities, too.

Now I'm gabbing.

Social media has created an insufferable new breed of narcissism and self absorption.

R7 Thank you. I don't have this overwhelming need to be social, and I do have a couple of close friends who don't have an overwhelming need to make everything about themselves.

This most recent "friend" I saw had been texting me recently - "I haven't seen you in a while! Let's get together and have lunch!" They seemed anxious to catch up. But when we did get together, it was all about them. I tried to give them the benefit of the doubt, thinking that maybe they don't have a lot of people they can talk with and just want to have someone they can share things with. And that's fine. But shouldn't there be some give and take there?

I have a friend like this who, in truth, ought to know better. She’s a professor at Yale and while she otherwise has a pretty interesting life, lately illness and family deaths have turned her into a broken record. Over the past year I’ve gotten at least half a dozen invites to see me “the next time I’m in town” and then she doesn’t make it. I’ve learned not to change, say, a dental appointment to accommodate her schedule because she’ll change her schedule after I’ve changed mine.

Worse, when I see her, hear from her on the phone or get an email (her recent tales of woe exceed the limits of texting) it’s always the same damn stories. Five times this year I’ve heard that her Mom died. What’s odd is that the first time I heard, I sent flowers to the funeral. Then her old mentor @ Berkeley died. I knew that: his obit was in the NYT. And she told me that five times. I mean, sure, sad, but he was 92 and gaga. I’d have seen it as a blessing. Then there was another time she blew off lunch at the last minute because she was meeting with Hilary Clinton. Her damn knees still hurt - that’s a regular subject - but she doesn’t want the surgery now (in her 50’s) in case the knees fail and she needs it done a second time in her 80’s. Don’t get me started on her elderly cat stories because she doesn’t have to tell them to me. I could tell them to her by now.

After all this, I get, “So I guess you’re all right” (How would she know?) and then the conversation’s over, which by then is usually just fine by me. She’s supposed to be in town next Friday for an all-day meeting and dinner and asked if we could have breakfast at her hotel next Saturday. I said, ”fine, say 9 am?” and then heard “more like brunch? I’ll be exhausted.” I know I will be when she’s done.

I love her, she’s a good person, she does a lot but lately she’s been a pain in the ass and more to herself than me. Right now, my guess is a 50/50 chance I’ll see her on Saturday.

R10 Yes, "exhausting" is the key word here.

Having to listen to these people go on and try and maintain interest in what they have to say drains all my energy.

R10 This "friend" of yours sounds more like a narcissistic cunt than an actual friend.

And no one here gives a shit about the OPs pictures either. Such is life.

Some of it is narcissism. Ok, a lot of it is narcissism. And some of it could be asymmetry. Not everyone has an equal amount of life stuff going on.

But yeah, after 15 minutes the friend ought to get a clue and take some interest in how *their* friend is doing.

My late mother used to say you can learn a lot about people who only talk about themselves - they're not interested in learning a lot.

R12, same thought here. So sick of these self-important My Life My Life MY LIFE people. Unless someone is going through a true crisis, there's no excuse for this level of selfishness.

You are describing my mother to a T. And yes I have a friend whom I have finally dropped after 20 years, because I was there for them during some of their roughest moments, just always hyping them up and there to make a bad situation bearable and cheer them up with finding the humor in a situation. But then they couldn't be bothered to pick up the phone to check in on me during Covid, during my divorce, during a health issue. And when I would talk to them it was always about their insane love life or their mother or their work. Never asking about me. And this used to be a true blue best friend. It's like I grew up and they never did.

OP, if you’re such a private person, is it better to put your attention on the other person? I mean, what do you want from them.

FYI: Someone fawning over photos on your phone was never going to happen.

What did you actually want to contribute? If you weren’t interested in this person and couldn’t contribute to their conversation, why do you consider them a friend?

You call yourself a cardboard cutout but it sounds like you’re choosing cardboard cutouts as friends. Why don’t you take the risk, put yourself out there, actually assert your personality, and develop relationships with like-minded people? Friendship is deep. What you’re describing sounds more like random acquaintances. Once you figure out the difference, hopefully you’ll make better use of your own time and develop some mutually beneficial relationships.

The problem here is you’re not really making the effort.

Sometimes it's nice to let someone talk as a distraction from one's own life and concerns. And we all go through periods where we might have more to hash out with a friend or need more attention. But friendship is ultimately a two way street.

Chose better friends.

I've never heard men go on and on about issues with their friendships that way I have on DL. You sound like a bunch of high school girls!

Grow up.

Why does the person have to ask you to tell them about your life? Pictures on your phone of a vacation isn’t talking about your life, vacation pictures are so uninteresting as to be a common subject of jokes about boring people over the years.

If you let people talk about themselves nonstop, most will. Since your a coy little thing who has to be cajoled into talking about yourself you’ve probably made friends with people who carry the conversation so you don’t have to.

[quote] In one case, I tried to steer away from the constant "me me me" trajectory of the conversation by opening up my phone and showing my friend some pictures of a recent weekend trip I had taken. They barely acknowledged the pictures, then went right back to talking about themselves.

OP, be wary of friends who might view your good fortune and "weekend trip" photos as assaultive. I have learned that you cannot be OK around 'friends' who are not emotionally and financially OK. Your friend probably told his other friend about you: "I just told that bitch I was fired and all he could do was show me pictures of his fabulous weekend vacation. He is such a show-off cunt! I hate her!"

I once dated someone who whenever I talked about work, said “I don’t understand what you’re talking about.” So I didn’t talk. He continued talking about himself.

I have a few people who are in my life via circumstance (neighbors, co-workers) who have told me they loved me and that I am their best friend, and yet could not tell you a single thing about me, not even my last name. And this is not because I'm shy or withholding, it's pure, impenetrable disinterest on their part. I could tell any one of these individuals that my parents were eaten by dinosaurs, and they would reply, "Yeah, I loved that movie Jurassic Park. I saw it around the same time I moved to Wichita. I had the nicest apartment there. But the water pressure wasn't great. One day I was getting ready for work...."

OP here. Just so everyone understands, the reason I showed this friend pictures on my phone wasn't in the expectation that he would fawn over them. I was simply trying to stop the constant "me me me" stream and see if we could get onto another subject...any subject.

But it didn't work, obviously.

And this wasn't a mere acquaintance. This is someone who had been my friend for many years and who moved to another city a few years, so we don't see each other as often as we used to.

R10 This is another thing that bugs the crap out of me. So your friend proposes getting together, you say "How about 9:00?" and she says, "More like brunch." Bitch, why didn't you say that to begin with? "Hey, let's get together for brunch. Say around 11:00." Easy.

A friend who was going to be in town texted me a few weeks ago and asked if I wanted to get together for lunch. I texted back, "Sure." Then he texted back, "Great. You choose the time and place." So I said, "How about 1:00?" Then they texted, "Can we do 2:00 instead? I have an appointment at noon and I may not be finished by 1:00."

What would have been so difficult about just texting something like, "Hey, I'll be in town on Tuesday. Wanna have lunch around 2:00?" It's like they want you to do all the legwork, but they still want final approval over everything.

People are fucked. End of story.

But you sound nice, OP, so maybe there's hope!

When people turn me from a friend into an audience, I ghost.

It becomes painfully obvious if any of the major losses or problems happen: loss of significant other or close relative, loss of job or large financial impact, health problems.

Some “friends” will offer to help but don’t mean it, some will ghost, some will say something socially appropriate and then move on. These are people to reconsider in terms of how much time and effort, if any, to expend maintaining this pseudo-friendship with.

R13 is one of those narcissistic cunts who only wants to talk about herself.

Yeah, well R26, there’s a good chance your friend is on another message board saying:

“We used to be such good friends and I hadn’t seen him in years, I was dying to know what he’d been up to but he didn’t offer anything, it was like he wasn’t even there and then he showed my some photos on his phone from a trip he took recently. I could’ve died it was so uninteresting. What happens to people…?”

Friends don’t let friends go on and on. They say, “All right, enough about you, I want to talk to you about…”

Also, with a friend you can be talking about anything and if you’re listening, share your own experiences on whatever they’re talking about, crack jokes, interrupt them to speak of your shared history together, ask them questions, etc., etc.

Maybe you need to engage more with your friends even if it is to say, “What’s going on with you? You’ve been talking about yourself non-stop. You didn’t used to be this way. What’s going on?”

That’s a friend.

R17, isn’t it true though that EVERYONE bails during a divorce? Rare is the friend that stands by you during a divorce. I was lucky I had my niece and one older friend who really stepped up.

Everyone else went AWOL.

R32 is a narcissistic cunt who only talks about herself.

This sounds like my sister, who, thankfully lives several states away. I was diagnosed with cancer this year and have undergone surgery and will be going through radiation treatments soon. Whenever I call her on the phone, all I hear about is how angry she is that the leaves from her neighbor's trees blow into her yard and how she has to clean it up or how her neighbors always park their cars in front of her house or how the string of lights on the Christmas tree she just put up don't work properly.

Never, ever does she ask me how I'm feeling or how I'm dealing with my diagnosis.

R35, I'm so sorry to hear that. I would be tempted to just punch and delete her. Hope you have friends who do better by you.

And I hope your cancer goes into quick and permanent remission.

Thank you, R36. I'm optimistic that my radiation treatments will get rid of the cancer for good.

As far as my sister goes, she's of the MAGA variety, so they tend to be a bit self-involved.

I can tell you this: me me me people don’t know that’s what they are. I was one for most of my life. I learned it after more than one trusted friend told me I was—and left the friendship.

And now, YEARS later, I’m still bad at conversation. I try, but a large part of the truth is that most people aren’t very interesting to me. I find it hard to be genuinely interested in drawing people out. It works best to have a common interest. That, or a physical activity you both like. Then you just do the activity, whatever it is, and go home and you haven’t strained yourself or them.

I have a friend who has done nice things like visit me twice when I was in hospital and buy me cute, wonderful gifts at Xmas, but she literally is on the autism spectrum, and absolutely never asks me a single thing about myself. I ask her about herself, which sometimes feels like an interrogation, and then there is silence, And now she has her first boyfriend at the age of 26-27 and they have gone desperately fast, her buying property in her name that he will live in within about eight months of meeting and engaged 1.5 yrs into the relationship. He doesn’t like me, so that endangers my relationship with her, as does the total desperado way she has conducted this relationship.

My mother in law hasn’t asked me a single thing about myself in thirty years. When I pointed this out once, she said I was making terrible accusations of her, when I was only making a statement or fact.

I have a few friends like this and I don't mind listening to them as I pride myself as a very good listener and I also don't like to talk about myself because I come from a complicated background and takes too much time to even talk about and I don't trust anyone so it takes forever for me to open up about myself.

Also how do you even tell your good friend that someone in their life is a user? My good friend has an ex who has his number and just knows how to press his buttons and "play" him. He'll keep saying this ex is turning his life around blah blah blah but half of it ain't true...coz we all know each other. How do I show him that the ex is no good?

R40 you could just myob unless asked?

OP must live in New Jersey.

Some of this is just poor conversation skills. Some of it is nervousness of having a silent moment. Some of it is that they think a conversation is really just a venting forum like group therapy. The concept of a back and forth conversation to gain information or share ideas is not something they were raised to understand.

Feeling this not only with 'friends' , but with family members i visited for the first tune since before the pandemic. ZERO questions about me or my life. It sure as Hell doesn't make me want to visit them again. (I'm talking brothers and sisters, not distant relatives. . . ). Really disappointing.

“The opposite of talking is waiting.”

I am very selective about who I spend time with. I have heard it all and seen it all, and don’t want to listen to a lot of BS. If I am made to feel invisible, I don’t spend time with them.

To be in love with one's self is a life long passion.

I've noticed this more in old friends (all who I adore and love) who now have kids. Thankfully, these cases are rather benign. Almost charming.

My oldest friend - best friends since we were 12 - is one of the nicest humans on the planet. I love him and he me. But he and his wife had two kids later in life (we're both 44) and when we are able to have our tradition Sunday evening catch up calls, it really is all about him and the boys. I don't mind at all. His life is full and mine is not. Plus, I love his boys and like hearing their funny stories.

But I do sometimes think, "we just chatted for 2 hours and I quite literally didn't catch him up on one single thing in my life. And he never asked."

My two female best friends are in similar stages of life (married with youngish kids), so their lives take precedence over mine in terms of time talked about when we catch up.

The good thing is that if I ever said, "Hey. I need to talk about some stuff going on with me..." all three would stop everything and listen.

[quote] me me me people don’t know that’s what they are. I was one for most of my life. I learned it after more than one trusted friend told me I was—and left the friendship. And now, YEARS later, I’m still bad at conversation. I try, but a large part of the truth is that most people aren’t very interesting to me.

You sound like you're still a me me me person. Other people probably think you aren't very interesting and are politely putting up with your verbal diarrhea.

[quote] My late mother used to say you can learn a lot about people who only talk about themselves - they're not interested in learning a lot.

I have coworkers who talk a lot about themselves. One guy, who's been at the office longer than I have, knows less than I do about our other coworkers, etc. Why? Because he's always talking. I'm not going out of my way to learn about other people, but I do listen and observe.

So have you changed your ways, R38? Are you a better listener these days?

Conversation is a lost art, and many people are woefully out of practice or just completely unskilled at real life verbal conversation.

I don’t know. I’ll be criticised more I’m sure but I would just never gravitate towards or make time for such people anyway. I have one friend whom I’ve known for decades, who became a bit like this after she moved to NYC but I push back on it, we have fun with it and ultimately she’s a really funny person. We catch up at regular intervals every 10 weeks or so. I can hear her out and say to her, “Well, this sounds complicated because first you said this, then you said that so no wonder you’re dissatisfied…” or whatever it is. If she assumes the tone of an authority, I say, “Well, actually, my understanding is…” We are loyal, loving friends. Neither one of us disappears in the conversation. I love her, I’ve known her for over 30 years. You have to show up, meet people where they are. If you withhold everything, no wonder you’re dissatisfied. And if they’re not worthy of your friendship, again, what are you doing there? Pretending to be somebody’s friend? Doesn’t sound like you’re making any effort, you’ve just tapped out of the exchange - whatever it might be - and would rather have the conversation here that you weren’t brave enough to have at the time.

R48 makes some good points. People, friends, go through phases. I have a lovely friend who I see a couple of times a year, we’ve known each other nearly 20 years. Even though I don’t see her very often, I’m kind of honoured that when she is having a serious crisis - with her career or marriage - she reaches out to me and we get together immediately. And I give her all of my attention. I’m probably 10 years older than her so she knows I’ve been through things and, if I have any to offer, trusts my advice. I’m a good sounding board. I’m there for her. In that situation, I don’t need anything from her but she does inquire and always pays for the meal. She’s a bit self-obsessed but open, honest and fascinating.

She has 2 young girls so I often go out to her house and - again - I don’t really want anything from her other than the pleasure of her company. It doesn’t have to be about me at all, though it can be. I just say, let’s hang out. And if her girls want to put on a fashion show we do that. Or I’ll bring my stand mixer and bake with the girls. Or hang out with her husband in the back yard and get high and shoot the shit. They might not delve deeply into my current circumstances - or they might - but who cares? I’m present with them. I can hang out for two days and we always have a good time. I’m going this weekend.

So I don’t get this, nobody’s interested in what I have to say thing. Say something. Or make better friends. But backstabbing people after you’ve pretended to be their friend is a far worse trait, as far as I’m concerned.

So the point was, expecting someone with two kids and a husband, etc. to give you their complete attention is unrealistic. But you make adjustments, make time and be easy and forgiving with people and all kinds of lovely things can happen.

No-that would seem to be an oxymoron.

I have one friend who initially seems like a good conversationalist until you realize that every question she asks you serves as a gambit to hold your attention for yet another one of her boring stories. But she is sweet and clearly doesn’t realize she’s an attention hog.

Well that was long-winded at R52.

And no one is expecting complete attention from a frau with a husband and 2 kids.

Long-winded at R53, i meant.

Hey, R58 - I don’t have your problems.

Oh god I understand boring stories that no sane person would want to hear. But I read this entire thread anyway.

As the designated alcoholic who got better, I am the listener for most of my friends and they can meander. I can tell when one friend has been drinking because his punctuation is usually flawless.

We’re spread out across the country and everyone texts. Almost like christmas cards listing all the family achievements of the year.

r61 sad that texting has replaced conversation. That is one reason why people seem so bad at it now.

I had friends and then I began to stop doing all the initiating and found that I have maybe two friends.

My husband and I have two friends, also a couple, that have become much more narcissistic and one-sided this past year. They have exhibited so many traits that you all have posted here. For me, the friendship has really gone downhill since April when we all took a trip to Rio together which just happened to coincide with one friend, Dave's, birthday. We spent the day of his actual birthday walking along Ipanema on a loose bar crawl for food and drinks. Instead of appreciating where he was, and enjoying our company, Dave cruised his socials and reported to our group each birthday wish he received and who gave it. He never really made an effort to be present with us, the people that were physically celebrating his birthday with him. Dinner that night was overshadowed by drama between Dave and his husband, which almost drove my husband and I to eat on our own. Later in the trip there was other conflict after which I was told "You don't understand how hard it is for us, because you treat us differently than your other friends."

Since that disastrous trip we've tried to maintain contact, after all shortly after Dave married they shared with me that they might as well move to NYC because they felt their friends here weren't paying them as much attention as they felt they deserved. Dave will text leading questions, that seem like ploys to be asked out for a drink or to meet up. Or, they will text "Meet for dinner?" basically leaving it up to me and my husband to figure out the details, which they inevitably try to tweak the time or place.

I will admit I probably do treat them differently now... keeping them at arm's length because they've turned into people I don't recognize or have much in common with anymore. If I didn't know them, and overheard them in a public place, I wouldn't give them the time of day. This saddens me a bit because I have some very good memories with them, particularly Dave whom I've known for over 20 years. But I guess people change and in the end, we all just have to take care of ourselves.

r64, if a friend texted me "Meet for dinner?" my response would be "When were you thinking" and see if it worked for me. I turn down more invitations than I accept if they are inconvenient or start becoming complicated. I think being less available to your friends in situations like that is a wake up call for some of them.

I am having dinner with a friend from high school who is in town until tomorrow and I regret agreeing to this two months ago. But I will go and be present and engaging and will lead the conversation without dominating it to draw him out.

"Meet for dinner?"

"Sure, when were you thinking?"

is usually followed by "Anytime works for me" and then things get annoying, because as someone said upthread, whatever time you offer, they tweak on a whim. Or instead of the time, the location.

The most egregious example of this ended with the reply, "Well we're out right now at *bar/resaurant* so we can't make it until 4pm."

I should have texted them the best response then: "You know it would have been nice if you just invited us out to join you where you're at!"

It sounds like the OP thinks mannerly conversation skills comprise not just travel photos, but travel photos on her phone.

If one can only offer that and a victimized complaint about the loss of friendly civility, one needs to work a little harder with a mirror in hand to solve for x.

R33 Oh wow, so it's a total thing, how everyone peaces-out when you get divorced? I suppose that makes me feel a little bit better to know it wasn't just me. It was shocking how everyone just...fell away.

There was a guy I was friends with at the Wall Street law firm where I first practiced. I was a first year. He was a third year. I’m older than he is by a few years because I was a retread. He was a nice guy, funny and self effacing.

He left and went to another wall street firm. About a year and a half later, I invited him to meet me at a Cosi between his building and mine, for lunch. We met and he was full of information about what he was up to. I listened with interest.

I started to update him about what I was up to, and after a minute or so, he said, “so anyway,” and continued talking about himself for the rest of the meal.

That was the last time I ever contacted him.

Yes, same with family. This time of year really smacks me in the face with it. I’m old. I think I’m done.

Yes. Lately I’ve stopped contact with a lot of “friends” and basically eliminated all contact with my family.

I have family members and friends who just send photos, no text. Pretty sure it’s a bcc thing with lots of recipients.

R68, DIVORCE = CANCER

R71 self isolation is never a good choice

R74 Cutting ties with toxic family members is often a very healthy choice.

R71, I have determined that we become more and more introverted and reclusive as we age. I used to be the world's biggest social butterly in my youth. At age 51 I probably do a thing once ever four months. And I say no to a hell of a lot. I also just do not crave interaction or relying on others. I don't want to date anymore. I really am set in my routines and I love being alone. I do realize there are people who are still social, and that 51 is not ancient. But if someone like I used to be could naturally evolve into a calm quiet homebody, than it makes me think perhaps it is a natural part of aging to not have so many friends, to want more peace and quiet, and to prefer one's own company more and more.

Self imposed isolation is never a good choice r76

Unless you’re a sociopath which you probably are r76

R76 early aging happens when you isolate.

Lol I for sure am not a sociopath. If anything, I'm a burned-out empath. I'm tired and craving peace. And had a marriage implode, some crazy relationships with stunted people, two narcissistic parents, etc. I just do not have the energy to invest in relationships anymore, only to find out this guy or that friend is a selfish, stunted emotionally invalidating disappointment.

But I hear you, R77 and R79. I'm sort of worried about the aging piece. I don't look older than my age. MY recent bloodwork was amazing, I'm really thrilled with the blood work. But I do feel out of sync with the outside world and I have aches and pains I would normally reserve for a 70 year old. They can't find anything wrong with me. But I am stiff and achy everywhere. Probably because putzing around my house as an early retiree is not enough exercise.

Ok now I am thinking I may need an intervention. Thanks for bursting my bubble, DL!

OP - I am sorry your friends deprive you of solitude without providing you with company.

As I get older (and still working full-time), I realize that there's only so much energy that I have. I am a good listener, but I'm tired of absorbing people's stuff.

Let me know when you guys are done talking so I can talk about me.

R80, were you ever in therapy? With two narcissistic parents, no wonder you’ve always been drawn to similar personalities. It would be the only dynamic you know.

Talk about zero interest. I met a guy who was interesting and fun to talk to a lot. We were in a car parked and talking and talking. He told me he was bisexual. I told him I found him attractive and he looked at me and said 'You're too ugly.' I was crestfallen. When he realized he said the worst thing possible he then said another worst thing possible 'I'll close my eyes and think of somebody else.' I said let's go home.

He then called me a short while later and I just said some pleasantries to be polite and not abrupt at which point he started telling me about his sexual feelings for his sister. I said I have to go and hung up the phone. We never spoke again.

R85 Jesus Christ. As soon as he said "you're too ugly," I'd have kicked him out of the car. And if it wasn't my car, I'd have gotten out and walked home.

Obviously, the guy was a complete nutjob, what with the incest story. Why would you even pick up the phone and talk to him after he insulted you so horribly?

Soooo much therapy, R84. It's what led to my divorce.

After decades of talk therapy I found new forms of deep healing in my 40s, with meds, Transcranial magnetic stimulation, yoga, meditation, neurofeedback and EMDR. I was starting to really feel empowered and powerful. I was connecting so many dots, really on a true healing journey. But my husband was not interested in my inner world, or that journey. In fact, the closer I got to the center of the tootsie pop, the more exasperated and agitated he began to act. He began pulling away and spending a lot of time away from the house. And when I was deep in a weeklong EMDR trauma intensive, my husband was told to follow a protocol, just for a couple weeks, where he was to ask me before coming towards me and touching or hugging me. He was to expect that I may be going inward and not very talkative or emotionally accessible. Because I was entering the belly of the beast. And guess what? He did not follow the protocol. He would swoop towards me swiftly, he would scowl at me and yell at me and follow me from room to room, demanding me to tell him if I was going to break up with him. I ended up in a fetal position on the floor a couple of those nights, just numb and forsaken. I have NO IDEA how I was with this man for 16 years, except that he was a real dear, as long as I kept things surface level and was unaware of my own internal landscape. The more empowered and self-aware I became, the more angry and verbally abusive my husband became.

And you are right, this exactly mirrors what my mother is like. When I asked for therapy as a teenager she told me just to by a CD and a cappucino once a week instead. She would get very agitated and angry anytime I started to explore the dynamics of the family or get wise to her failings. So I became a peace-keeper, sucking everything up and in, and holding it as long as I possible could until the inevitable occasional outburst. Then I would apologize for my tantrum, and start the clock back at zero, once again holding in all of my pain and anger as long as I could before the next "shameful" outburst. This, I can now see, was repeated in my marriage.

And this is why I prefer my own company these days. I don't want to trigger anyone every again, -- I don't have the nervous system capacity to handle it. I dated a few people after my separation and it was more of the same -- wounded men who have NOT been in therapy, ever, and have no self-awareness, feeling threatened by an emotionally literate adult with expectations for how they wish to be treated and for how communication should not hurt. This isn't rocket science - people who in 2024 still thing it's okay to play mind games, throw tantrums, minimize, gaslight and invalidate, or who people please but then don't follow through...just NO.

OP, perhaps it's YOU that is the problem? You sound far too needy and nothing but a hot mess worrying about what your supposed friends think, I think that's the problem.

Wow. Thanks for that, R87. Yeah, that makes sense that when the shift came in your 40s and you developed the tools and, frankly, the power to assert your true self that your husband felt threatened and was probably like, “I didn’t sign up for this.” What’s really disappointing is that the map was written for him, he was given directions on how he could accompany you on this journey and not only chose not to but may have consciously chosen to retaliate. It must’ve been very disappointing but fear is a very powerful thing.

The difficult thing is that you do the work and develop an awareness but it doesn’t necessarily change the patterns or dynamics. It’s like you really have to cycle through it a few more times - hopefully not to the same extent - for it to really take hold and manifest change in your life. The good thing is that you recognise it sooner and lose less of yourself in the process. So, don’t give up entirely. But I agree, it’s the relationship you have with yourself that matters, it’s great to enjoy your own company. The hardest thing is to establish that independence, to recognise its value and to value it enough not to give it away. I think when you meet the world on your own terms and know that you are enough, that’s when things get interesting - interesting perspectives, interesting pursuits and an interesting sense of place in the world. Wisdom traditions always refer to the doing without knowing, acting without expectation, embracing the uncertainty and existing in the moment. It’s not a state one can exist in all the time but when you recognise it, it can be powerful in the way it opens us up to all possibilities. It’s the loving ourselves and just being content with that, that is so vital to our existence.

Divorce is such a Mt. Everest, such a trial by fire, anyone who’s been through it knows…I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. But we’re members of that club. 😊 Take care, all the best to you.

You are a true gem, R89. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen and respond with such care. You are right, having hard-won awareness and new tools means little until they are pressed into action and honed on the battlefield of life, so to speak. I'm still in my cocoon, but you've inspired me to aim a little higher today. Wishing you the very best, too!

Me when I agree to have drinks with my narcissistic friends.

It's interesting to see this all from the vantage point of an older dad with a young child (turning 7 now).

Young kids are naturally a bit narcissistic. More than a little bit, in most cases. One of the 100 things a good parent would do for and with their kid, is to model non-narcissistic conversation patterns and to model being curious enough and caring enough to be interested in your friends' and family members' interests and viewpoints and what's going on in their lives. In other words... helping a child learn how to be a good friend and/or a good loved one, and hopefully a good romantic partner to someone, further down the road.

But there's been something of a societal failing toward adult narcissism going on, for decades now, and social media has seriously accelerated it. At some point, more and more people's capacity to care about others' perspectives and thoughts and lives, or even take some interest, has become like an atrophied set of muscles. More and more of us adults just aren't even capable of it, and aren't even capable of *wanting* to be capable of it. Still, as a parent, if you believe in doing your best to raise a good kid and a future grownup who's capable of healthy relationships.. you've got to put in the effort, patiently and tenaciously, despite what you see in the larger world. Including all the shitty parenting and shitty lack-of-parenting that is a part of how this all has been happening.

Also, good dental and financial habits, Torta!

r92, good point about young kids being naturally narcissistic.

When people get really old they revert to being like toddlers and become extremely self-centered. They only want to talk about things that pertain to them/their experience/their interests. They may remember that it's your birthday (or not) but they don't really care. They care if they are getting a piece of cake.

When you’re old, you’ve remembered enough birthdays (other people’s) and don’t give a shit.

R10 So she’s dealing with family death and an illness and you can’t give her support and cut her some slack? Some friend you are.

[quote] Then there was another time she blew off lunch at the last minute because she was meeting with Hilary Clinton.

R10, are you for real?! You really expected your friend to turn down a meeting with Hillary Clinton because she made prior plans to have lunch with you?

The day will come when a very true to life bright lover or best friend will be yours for a reasonable cost.. Programing and yearly tune up will be extra but there will be monthly payment plans.

Real people are over rated and as DL constantly points out a giant pain in the ass.

A special friend who is always interested in what you say no matter how stupid or boring it is and is always ready to fuck and cleans the apt while you are away.

A better tomorrow

Don't you warn your good friend or friends if someone is taking advantage of them?

Yeah R99, that never works. Every time I tried that I am the one who gets burned and slowly ghosted out if their life.

I am a true elder. People in general don’t give a fuck about anyone else. Family members, neighbors , best friends, colleagues … etc. I could cite many examples but it’s too boring.

I didn’t use to feel this way . As Sweeney Todd sings , “ You are young. Life has been kind to you . You will learn.”

R100 are you saying that when you stick your nose somewhere it was not asked to be and you warn friends about people you think they should dump they end up ghosting you.

And you try this not once but every time with the same results..

What have you leaned from this?

I like R100. You care about your friend. I'm sure the friend will realize one day what you warned him/her about was true...you were looking out for them. You have a good heart.

I have this bi friend. He hooked up with this illegal immigrant from poland. She tried to trap him with a baby, claiming it was his...it wasn't. That was over 10 years ago. this woman is still in his life, she has keys to all his places, summer house, and he lets her live in his condo for 1200 when it can be rented for 5000.

This woman is pure trash and user. She drinks, smokes, does drugs and steals from her work (bartender). He doesn't fuck her anymore but she's trying to win him back...and she tries all kinds of ways like telling him to do a threesome with her best friend or she tells him to fuck her best friend etc...they are all using him and he's a fool when it comes to the vagina.

How anyone can trust a person like this is beyond me...esp after lying about the baby being his...she's not even good looking.

my fav is when I send a congratulatory message to someone about something and the message gets 'read' or 'seen' but not replied to.

does that happen regularly among different people r105? If a simple Thank you (or even TY) response is too much, you're better off without people like that in your life.

Not regularly, R106, but it's happened with a few self-centered people I've known.

R97 Are you for real? Do you honestly think Hilary called her at 11 am to have lunch and she called me to cancel at 11:15?

[quote]are you saying that when you stick your nose somewhere it was not asked to be and you warn friends about people you think they should dump they end up ghosting you.

NO R102, you are projecting. I am talking about when a friend says "what do you thing about X? Be honest, he did XYZ and I am not sure if I can trust him" So if you ask for my opinion I will give it in the most gentle way I can. But then inevitably they get back together and I am the bad one.

That's why now I just don't bother when ask. " I don't know X well enough, you have to make that decision"

Op you have 3 choices

1) drop such friends

2) continue with status quo and be a doormat

3) tell them to their face that you would like them to inquire about your life and current experiences too. You can do this with kid gloves or like a bitch, your choice. See what happens in any case.

Sometimes I will throw out a joke to break their monologue. "but enough me, let's talk about me" Sometimes they pause and get it, sometimes they don't.

if these are really close friends, maybe tell them how you feel. Otherwise see them rarely, in company and leave early

No. Drop those you do. IF they notice, then address it. Otherwise, drop 'em, ghost 'em, if you will. You don't need such people in your life

You know what you did. You don’t know what your friend did. But people complain because they can’t drone on boring people to death showing fucking vacation pics absolutely no one wants to see.

Then complaining on line no one wants to hear their stupid boring stories.

The battle of those who need to talk about themselves to people who obviously just don’t care. Kind of a stand off of the needy.

R114 A what now?

Yeah, OP, I'd probably want to stick a fork in my eye if someone started showing me vacation photos. That's what Instagram is for.

no, but I'm trying to help a friend get rid of rift raff...how do you protect your friends? the users? using them for money...

how to make them see that?

Op those aren’t friends.

Yes and I wonder why I maintain contact. It's a very surface level relationship because they don't listen and show no interest in anything other then the sound of their own voice. Ergo, I share nothing of interest with them.

All I want to do is talk about my parents and what shitty horrible narcissistic people they were who hated me because I was gay. This caused me to be socially retarded as they used to say and I am left with the wreckage of their treatment towards me. I only want people in my life who will put up with my constant complaining about how shitty my parents were and nod sympathetically and occasionally interject with your parents sound like they were horrible!

But who wants to deal with that? Nobody! So I'm alone and watch old movies. I'm very lonely but relationships must be on my terms. Otherwise what's the point? Honestly I'm hollowed out and have nothing to give of any positivity therefore nobody has anything to share with me. I totally get that it's my fault but it's really my parents fault. Thank god my dick never pointed me in the direction of a vagina. They were evil but I've kept my evil to myself. Having children is criminal. My mother would say not having children is selfish. And I would think just the opposite. It's the most selfish thing one can do. So I don't wonder why I have no friends. Sad but true. I've just accepted it. I'll be alone on Christmas so I'll watch A Charlie Brown Christmas, listen to Leontyne Price and Elizabeth Schwarzkopf sing Christmas carols and watch Scrooge which I saw as a boy at Radio City. Not that life was any happier then with those two monsters but that movie gave me a few moments of happiness in my unhappy youth.

R120: I love you. I get you. I have finally stopped pretending everything is ok. I accept my life is a world of shit now. It’s easier to not fight it.

I’m alone in my apartment having been forced out of my home by my ex. Isolation is comforting . I just woke up at 2:37, and didn’t know if it was am or pm.

I’m eating applesauce and frozen berries . I dread the forced socializing I’ll do on the 25th and 26th. Acceptance is the answer . Don’t fight the depression . Don’t justify to others. Just wait it out til we all turn to worms

DL were happy comes to die.

“Match people’s energy” is one of the things I learnt this year. It doesn’t mean you can’t be the first to reach out or make an effort. It simply means you put in and give back as much as you receive.

Once the balance starts to feel off over a long stretch of time, you can stop giving because you’re clearly not receiving.

A friend who hypes you up, makes plans, invites you for lunch? Great! Match his energy by doing the same. Those who suck the life (and time) out of you without giving back? Bye!

Alone at the holidays there could be a good reason

One thing is obvious when reading here on DL it’s full of unhappy, depressed self described mentally ill people, full of people with no hope, no love, no future, and many wanting to die.

But the good thing is to realize that all of these bad things that are crippling peoples lives are someone else’s fault.

Friends, family, co workers, Reagan, former lovers, bosses, and or Trump it’s their fault all the fucking time. Shrinks I bet have a name for this.

Have a happy holiday.