Cher reveals Lucille Ball’s advice pushed her to leave Sonny Bono

I’m guessing Gary stayed out of this one.

It’s time “Life with Lucy” and “Stone Pillow” be given blu-Ray second glances.

I wrote this piece when the horrible "Being the Ricardos" was released. In it, I compared watching various Lucy reruns while watching Sonny and Cher, before and after they broke up as a '70s kid...

Lucie Arnaz actually has pretty positive things to say about Gary. Lucie said he was a good step-dad and showed up for things. She said that Gary said "no" so that Lucy wouldn't have to say no and be the bad guy.

Cher tooting her own horn. Fuck this bitch.

Sonny wrote his memoirs while he was still alive, now Cher has written hers...

Sonny’s love seemed very transactional, given what we’ve heard from Cher and Chaz.

I thought Sonny was fine with Chaz's transitioning, despite being a Repug, but Cher had a big problem with it. I think if Chaz had been as pretty as E. Page, she too would have had no problem with it.

[quote]"Fuck him, you’re the one with the talent.’”

She gave me the same advice.

Sonny was very supportive of Chastity when she came out as a lesbian.

It was Cher who had a fit and I think went so far as to try and get Chastity put into ex gay therapy.

^ TRUE

Yup, Sonny was the one who accepted Chastity as she was when she came out as a lesbian.

I watched a couple of episodes of Chaz's reality show (he was transitioning, at the time). Somebody (not Cher) had donated the money for Chaz's medical transition. I was surprised Cher was not helping, financial. Well, strictly speaking, Chaz should have paid for it, himself. But considering how much $$$ Cher has, maybe she could have chipped in.

Also, Cher lost her court battle to gain a conservatorship over Elijah, the son with singer/guitarist Greg Allman. Elijah receives something like $10,000 per month for a trust that Dad Greg set up. Cher was trying to get control over that.

r6 Ok, thanks for that

Sonny and Chaz were not on speaking terms when he died, because he was standing with anti-gay legislation, despite his being personally supportive.

Can we just admit that Chaz is deeply mentally ill? I'm sure neither Cher nor Sonny was a walk in the park, but I don't think anybody would be able to consistently get along with Chaz for long. "I'm a lesbian, wait no, I'm a straight man!" Whatever.

Carol Burnett had told a similar story decades ago, shortly after Lucy died.

She had said that in the 60s, when CB was doing her show, Lucy invited both her and Cher to dinner at her home. CB had known LB over the years, but they were more acquaintances than close friends then.

Anyhow, at the dinner, Lucy turned the conversation about survival in Hollywood, and let the both of them know that they were far more talented than their spouses or the networks were telling them they were. Lucy shared her own experiences with them. LB said she would advise them to be strong business women if they wanted her help. CB said Lucy was telling them it was ok to start becoming independent successes and start to have control over their own finances and careers (really unheard of at the time) , and to protect themselves (more or less, don't trust anyone but yourself when it comes to a business partnership with your husband).

CB and Cher would get together with Lucy on a regular basis after that for lunch or dinner, and bring any questions they had. Lucy taught them how to deal with the bosses at CBS, and how to negotiate what was best for them (not best for their husbands). CB says this is how her longstanding friendship with Cher began, and grew even stronger when their marriages ended around the same time.

Cher, a strong businesswoman? HA!

Baby, don't go!

Lucy was such a badass. Great info R16.!

R16 Marlo Thomas said similar things about Lucy in her book. Lucy took her under her wing when she was doing That Girl.

For all the shit she gets about being difficult, it seems Lucy went out of her way to mentor the women who were coming up after her.

Lucky for Burnett and Cher, they were both employed at CBS - and Lucy knew just about everyone and everything there was to know at CBS. She was well-connected and knew how to be a winner, which was rare for a woman back then. They obviously followed her advice, and the three formed a powerful friendship.

Didn't Mary Tyler Moore also praise Lucy for her kindness and good advice? It was something like this... MTM heard laughing from an unexpected direction while she was filming Dick Van Dyke's show. Turned out Lucy Ball had sneaked in and was watching her from on the somewhere on the sidelines.

They met and Lucy praised her talent, told her she was very good, and continued from there.

My favorite Lucy story is the one with her, Cher and Rosalind Russell at a party at Jack Benny's house when Nixon came on the television with a speech. Lucy, who was a democrat, started making obscene gestures and vulgar jokes throughout it cracking Cher and Rosaling up. Johnny Carson, who was a huge Nixon fan, was pissed and complained to Jack Benny, who told Lucy to bring themselves to the den. Johnny, being the prick that he was, wound up blacklisting Cher from the Tonight Show for his tenure because of this. As a result, she could only do the show when there was a guest host. He didn't dare try that shit with Lucy though.

I need to know where these “Cher and Lucy”quotes come from. I think Lucy thought Cher was a bimbo with no/very limited talent.

But more talent than Sonny Bono.

Lucy seemed a very decent sort, why is there so much hate for her on DL?

Johnny Carson. What an asshole. I never liked him and I liked him even less after how he treated Joan Rivers when she got a talk show.

You wrote that R3? It's really well written and interesting! Have you done other pieces?

R28 You look for piece, homosexual man? I not man, but youz close eyes and I can talk like manly man while bend over chair. Only cost youz five dollars.

R28 Rick has written the whole blog at that link. There are many, many entries. Go back and explore!

Cher is severely dyslexic. It wasn't that Lucy thought she was a bimbo R24, Cher herself thought she was a dumbdumb until she learned she was dyslexic. It can do that to you.

Somehow I picture Cher sitting in a chair against the wall afraid to converse with any of these people. I can’t imagine Lucy taking her seriously for a second.

Lucy could be tough and tactless, but also very nurturing. Having experienced several miscarriages, she was very protective of pregnant women. Both Janet Waldo and Carol Burnett were pregnant when they made guest appearances at different times, and Lucy made sure they always had chairs to sit in and didn’t overdo anything during rehearsal.

I’m other words, she told Peggy not to jiggle so hard before the cameras rolled.

It wasn't like Lucy was wrong.

Thanks for explaining who Lucille Ball was, OP. The original article assumed the reader knew who she was, referring to only as “Hollywood legend,” but OP took the time to identify her and I, for one, appreciate the thoughtfulness.

[quote] I need to know where these “Cher and Lucy”quotes come from.

From me, Doll. For some reason these broads confided in me. Do I look discreet?

Source, R16, source.

Lucy seemed like a closet lesbian. If course she would help other women and trash men.

Boot vhat if I'm a wooman R29!

R38 = overly sensitive, humorless homosexual

I'm getting ready to do that R30. I really liked what he wrote.

Rick here. Thanks! Here's a piece I wrote about Lucille Ball in one of her strongest roles, "The Big Street." It's not lovable Lucy, but she goes big here...

R3, Ricksrealreel, I love that handle. I really enjoyed the Columbo episode you wrote about and the Bogie and Bacall one, too. I really like how you explain the actors themselves and then delve into their work.

Rick here, thank you! Been doing the blog for over 8 years and enjoy writing about the stars as a movie fan, not a film scholar. Cheers!

Cher's memoir is #1 on the NYT's best seller list this week. Here's my take on Cher's finest two hours on film, "Moonstruck."

[quote]R16 Lucille Ball said she would advise them to be strong business women, if they wanted her help.

Yeah, with a little free pussy lickin’ and clam slammin’ thrown in on the first of the month, without fail!

Cher told Lucy she could fuck off with her “generous offer,” but the more vulnerable Burnett was set down a slippery slope into the depths of Sensual Sapphic Slavery - a sad, twilight hell from which she’s never truly escaped.

Obviously, R44

We all love Lucy and she is a legend but, truthfully , only for just that. I Love Lucy. I can't think of anything she did after ILL and the departure of Desi that was particular good or funny. Like Rita Moreno, she spent decades being a legend for being a legend. Even LB gave credits to Arnaz for being the businessman.

R48, that's funny that you say that, but I don't think it's entirely accuarate. In recent years many critics and film scholars have come late to an appreciation for Lucy's Mame. At the time it was too difficult to detach Lucy from television Lucy. People weren't prepared for Lucy to play a sophisticated society New York society women who could also sing and dance! With some distance people have begun to appreciate what Lucy did in Mame and it has become a sleeper holiday classic, one which millions of families enjoy every year around this time. With that said, I do agree that Lucy's oeuvre is rather limited, but I don't blame that on her, I blame that on certain people around her who offered her poor guidance in terms of roll selection. Had she taken some of the rolls she was offered we might have a completely different conception of Lucy as an actor and might think of her more along the lines of some of the cinematic greats: Rowlands, Magnani, Moreau. What could have been...

[quote]R49 Had she taken some of the rolls she was offered we might have a completely different conception of Lucy

All the rolls that Lucy passed on were given to Vivian Vance. It was in her contract that she had to eat them.

All of Lucy's TV projects, with the exception of Life with Lucy, did well in the ratings at the time, including the notorious Stone Pillow. She wasn't just a one trick pony. She had a long and successful career. It's just that I love Lucy has managed to remain iconic and beloved all of these years.

I think Julia Louis Dreyfuss is the modern-day equivalent of Lucy. Several successful solo projects, but she will of course be most remembered for Seinfeld, which is on a whole different level.

HA HA, good one, R49!

[quote]roll selection

I always select the onion roll, you know, the one with pieces of cooked onion in it. If the host isn’t serving onion rolls, I say, MAKE THEM.

I good back roll beats a front tuck roll every time.

R50 made me cackle out loud on the subway.

Bravo!

[quote]Hollywood comedian, who was in sitcom I Love Lucy with her husband, told singer: ‘You’re the one with the talent’

Hogwash!

First of all, Sonny was the songwriter/producer who wrote all their songs and came up with the TV show that was a smash hit.

Secondly, Cher left Sonny for (then closeted) record mogul David Geffen and the two became an item for about a year and a half after that, believe it or not.

He was the one who encouraged her to leave Sonny at the height of their success in the early '70s and pursue a solo career.

Geffen also was the one who influenced Cher to trash Sonny during their bitter divorce, even saying that Cher was Sonny's slave.

She then left Geffen for Gregg Allman, whom she married and had another kid in the late '70s.

Sonny was the songwriter for most of their '60s hits. He wrote one in the '70s. After he and Cher split, he never wrote any more hits for anyone. After his solo variety series bombed after half a season, his showbiz career consisted of a few B movies and Aaron Spelling guest star shots. Cher decided to leave Sonny before she met Geffen. He just knew how to extricate her from a contract from Cher Enterprises that was 95% his, 5% his lawyer, and Cher was an employee. Fred Silverman was the one who came to Sonny and Cher with the offer of doing a summer replacement series, which led to a regular series. Sonny indeed handled the business, not always in Cher's favor. But she's always given him credit for having the vision to make them famous. Particularly the second time around, "El Primo," as Sonny called himself, was riding for a fall with his hubris.

R56, you may want to learn the truth in R57’s post.

R56 - there are all kinds of talent. Sonny did have songwriting and showbiz talents, but he needed a partner like Cher - who could actually sing his songs and bolster his rather one note stage persona with more charisma and comedic ability than he possessed.

Cher was neither an extraordinary singer or beauty - but her look and voice are both very distinctive, incredibly suited to her era and she obviously worked to make more the most of them. Like many stars she is more than the sum of her individual parts and obviously could sustain and grow a career once out of Sonny’s orbit. He couldn’t do the same away from her.

I wasn't aware of the horrible legal set-up of the Sonny & Cher business model. She was right to break up with him both professionally and personally. And Lucille Ball was right, she was the one with the talent, Sonny was basically the b-grade sidekick talent wise.

Cher and Lucy had common ties. Cher's mom appeared on I Love Lucy and The Lucy Show. Lucy, Carol and Cher were buds, Lucy worked with Cher on her special. Links in the next few posts.

Cher's mom and Lucy.

Lucy and Cher's mom

Cher's mom

Cher, Elliot Gould and Lucy

Sorry for the dup, this is the other link I meant to post.

Cher's mom.

R64, Elliott Gould was long past his use at that time. Hot new star to basket case in 18 months,

Elizabeth Ashley said Lucy and Debbie Reynolds tried to talk her out of marrying George Peppard

EG never had a basket.