Obama and Pelosi did not want Kamala Harris to be nominee

[quote] “I think it was to say, F you to Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama and every representative that was pushing him out… and I think he was pissed,” Morgan told Cuomo.

This is quite an accusation.

He is basically saying that Biden sabotaged the Democrats and saddled us with a candidate that he knew was unfit to be President.

Biden did it to hurt our chances, knowing full well that it would help Donald Trump.

And it falls in line with Jill Biden wearing all red on election day.

If this is true, then I have lost all respect for Joe Biden.

Bullshit. That’s all.

[Quote] and saddled us with a candidate that he knew was unfit to be President.

No, with a candidate that couldn’t get elected. There’s a big difference.

What did the campaign acquire on a $20M spending spree?

[quote] What did the campaign acquire on a $20M spending spree?

[bold]Oprah and Al Sharpton.[/bold]

MSNBC told the Washington Free Beacon’s Chuck Ross for a report on Tuesday that the network was “unaware” that Rev. Al Shaprton’s non-profit organization had received $500,000 in donations from Vice President Kamala Harris’s campaign, during the same time period he interviewed her on the network.

“MSNBC was unaware of the donations made to the National Action Network,” the MSNBC spokesman told Ross some two weeks after the donation was first reported. Sharpton also did not disclose the donations to network executives, according to the spokesman.

Ross added that the spokesman “wouldn’t say, though, whether the left-wing network is taking any action against Sharpton for a move that appears to violate network policy. Other network hosts like Joe Scarborough have been publicly reprimanded for their failure to disclose making, rather than receiving, political donations.”

The Harris campaign made two separate $250,000 donations to Sharpton’s National Action Network, an anti-discrimination group, on Sept. 5th and Oct. 1, the second coming weeks before Sharpton interviewed Harris on the network.

MSNBC has punished hosts in the past for political activity, most famously Joe Scarborough and Keith Olbermann in 2010. Scarborough was suspended from his show for personal campaign donations made between 2004 and 2008 that he later claimed were made in his name by his wife. Olbermann was suspended for making donations to Democratic congressional candidates.

MSNBC did not immediately reply to a request for comment.

1. I think Kamala did a decent job overall. She had to takeover late as the nominee, but she beat Trump in the debate, gave a good speech at the DNC, raised a lot of money, and did a solid job on the campaign trail.

2. But yes, it would have been good if there had been a Democratic primary where Dem voters could have weighed in and where the party would have had more time to explore picking a new nominee between Kamala and anyone else who wanted to run. IMO, Biden should have announced a year or two ago that he would not be running again and allowed the process to happen in enough time.

This sounds very true. Biden really screwed the Dems when he picked her as the nominee ONE HOUR after he withdrew. He was clearly angry and bitter.

Kamala did the best job anyone could have done in the short time period, she wiped the floor with Trump in that debate. She raised record about of money, she used every possible tool in the book, stepped away from "woke", brought over 200 well known Republicans and brought everyone from the far left like Bernie and AOC to the right like Liz Cheney to her side, almost every possible celeb endorsement, Billionaire Mark Cuban, you name it only a very few missteps.

I literally cant imagine anyone else in the Democratic party at that time that could have run a better campaign with 3 months notice. At the end of the day, Trump appealed to the angry young male gamers, machismo Hispanic men and white women who wanted a daddy figure.

R8, 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[quote] Kamala did the best job anyone could have done in the short time period, she wiped the floor with Trump in that debate. She raised record about of money, she used every possible tool in the book, stepped away from "woke", brought over 200 well known Republicans and brought everyone from the far left like Bernie and AOC to the right like Liz Cheney to her side, almost every possible celeb endorsement, Billionaire Mark Cuban, you name it only a very few missteps.

[quote] I literally cant imagine anyone else in the Democratic party at that time that could have run a better campaign with 3 months notice.

I agree with you about all of this.

She surprised the hell out of me, in a very positive way.

But that's not what this article is about.

It's about the treachery of Joe Biden.

It's about how Obama and Pelosi wanted the process to play out, as democratically as possible.

With a fair and open caucus, and then a nomination with a unanimously elected candidate.

That's not what happened.

Biden forced everyone's hand.

By endorsing Kamala after only one hour, he shut down any discussion of other possible nominees.

Because any dissention would throw the party into even more chaos, women would be pissed, black people would be pissed, etc. etc.

So there was no discussion or debate.

And that was all because of JOE BIDEN.

[bold] I am the only one who can and did beat Trump - JOE BIDEN

Harris' insurmountable problem was that she couldn't separate herself from Biden, who the voters blamed for the cost of living crisis. Her campaign would have had to have been perfect to win, and while it was a good campaign, it was not perfect. She didn't even try to differentiate herself from Biden.

The Democrats really needed a Governor for 2024 - someone who couldn't be blamed for inflation or the border. So if Obama and Pelosi wanted a primary, I don't blame them. They are both astute enough to know Harris would struggle being Biden's VP.

R11 China Corana virus.

I listened to the Pod Saves interview with the campaign team. They said Kamala couldn’t separate herself from Biden on certain issues because then the response would have been “well where was that idea before?” Or “weren’t you supposed to be in the room?” Which to me is utter bullshit. It’s well known that Nancy Pelosi tells her members they shouldn’t hesitate to throw her under the bus if it helps them win. Clearly Kamala and her team had to tiptoe around Biden and his massive fucking ego. I expect many stories to come out in the next few years about Joe’s mental decline and insistence on sticking around despite literally every indication he should have stepped aside two years ago.

None of that matters, guarantee even if Kamala has successfully answered the way people said she should have done, she still would have lost the male Latino vote, the white women vote, and the incl male video gamer vote. Plus all of MAGA.

EXACTLY R15!!!

Biden’s actual trusted team should have refused that first car crash debate. They could have said they were taking a stance not to debate a man who incited violence after the last election and was facing criminal proceedings.

All this blaming when the one who truly deserves it is MAGA Merrick Garland who refused to do his job.

Why are some people just waking up to the fact that Joe Biden is a completely malignant narcissist?

The Democratic Party spent eight years accusing Trump of being a vain vindictive egoist unsuitable for the Presidency only to be undone by a vain vindictive egoist unsuitable for the Presidency.

Joe Biden’s campaign had internals showing Trump was going to win over 400 electoral votes, potentially taking Virginia, New York and New Jersey. He still refused to step down. It was known as far back as two years ago that Joe Biden would likely not be reelected because of his approval rating. He did not care.

The Democratic Party lost this election because Joe Biden was a bad President. Instead of openly challenging him to step down, everyone had to walk on eggshells around him like the little boy in that Twilight Zone episode who had to be indulged at all times. He held the Party hostage. The inability to oust Joe Biden revealed the systemic rot within the Party and the failure of leadership including Obama and Nancy Pelosi.

It also revealed the degree to which Democrats are beholden to wealthy donors who have their own agenda. Wealthy donors who wanted to win certainly could have seen the writing on the wall a long time ago. That did not matter to them. What mattered to them is that they had the emperor’s ear now and could use them prospect of campaign contributions to influence his decisions. Why was Biden’s biggest bundler, Jeffrey Katzenberg, vouching for Biden’s fitness when Biden was certainly not capable of campaigning because of his cognitive decline? Seymour Hersch pointed out, why was Biden’s policy in Gaza to completely kowtow to Netanyahu? Why was he publicly calling for ceasefire (remember Obama had to publicly correct him) while not withholding arms shipments to Israel? Gaza is the biggest scandal since Iran-Contra and so few people are willing to call it that, especially a Democratic Party that has become enamored with the Pax Americana war machine and the Cheneys.

Merrick Garland is a terrible human being but why is Biden given a blank check for his appointment? Merrick Garland did us a favor by releasing the entirety of the Hur report which revealed Biden was unsuitable for reelection. Did Democrats heed this warning and push for his ouster?

Finally, much blame needs to be assigned to the online Bidenists who pushed the false narrative of Biden’s suitability for reelection even after the debate. They have EARNED us a second Trump Presidency. The only comfort I take in a second Trump Presidency is the misery it will bring these people, who need to be constantly reminded they are responsible for it every day for four years. They have truly earned the title “Blue MAGA” with their cult like devotion to a foolish and fickle leader who led them to their own destruction.

R19, get a blog. TLDR

R19. 👏

Such bullshit.

Harris came much closer to victory against Trump than Biden ever would have. His polling was abysmal and he is downright geriatric, it never would have improved. And there simply wasn't time for an open convention (aka a fight) in Chicago in late August and for us to STILL not know who our nominee even was, that late in the race -- let alone try to heal the wounds from such a fight.

The people saying this nonsense are people who do not understand how reality is. You wanted an open primary? Get a time machine and go back to Nov 2022 and convince Biden to drop out THEN.

And, hell, if we're getting a time machine let's change a whole lot more than this.

Ok, so open primary, Newsom gets nominated as Nancy wanted and then you have black women sit home, Trump wins 400 electoral votes anyway. The only one who polled better than Harris was Whitmer and you would have the same fracture. So Mr Billionaire Donor is talking shit.

Newsom could have selected a Black Black woman like Stacey Abrams as running mate.

Oh god, Harris ran an incredible campaign right off the bat. Anyone else would’ve floundered the first week or two assembling a team and a message and there wasn’t time for that.

Trump won because more stupid people voted, people who refuse to educate themselves on the issues and blindly believe that “Trump can fix it” by fiat.

R22 and R23, exactly. I also do not believe anything coming at us from Chris Cuomo, a hack who’s gone completely pro-Trump. Watching him now you might as well be watching Sean Hannity. No thank you.

I’m not convinced any Dem could have beaten Biden. But Biden withdrawing and then ending the contest in one hour was an obvious f u to the people who pushed him out. I was a Biden fan but he was no shape to run. And insiders most have known that years ago.

I want an insider to write a book about this mess.

…beaten Trump.

[quote] It's about how Obama and Pelosi wanted the process to play out, as democratically as possible.

Bitch, please.

Both parties are two sides of the same coin and in the end, it’s all about pleasing their corporate masters. Not really about the people, the voters. I’ve been trying to move on because no matter how much I complain, who’s listening? The politicians aren’t.

This Morgan douchebag probably voted for Trump. Stop falling for the lies.

Joe and Jill probably did too.

[quote] Ok, so open primary, Newsom gets nominated as Nancy wanted and then you have black women sit home, Trump wins 400 electoral votes anyway. The only one who polled better than Harris was Whitmer and you would have the same fracture. So Mr Billionaire Donor is talking shit.

I don't think he's talking shit.

It's clear that Nancy Pelosi wanted an open convention. She came out and said it.

Then she had to backtrack, because Biden endorsed Kamala so quickly.

When people started immediately jumping on the Kamala bandwagon, Nancy had to shut up about the open convention.

And I think Obama was also holding out for an open convention, which is why he didn't endorse for five days.

But he also saw everyone rallying behind Kamala, so he had to do the same.

Neither of these things changes the fact that even if they had their way, the person nominated at the open convention would have still lost to Trump.

No one could have put up a successful campaign against Trump, Putin, Musk, and the pro-Trump media in such a short amount of time.

It just wasn't possible.

But Kamala definitely did as well as anyone could have expected.

R17, Biden CHALLENGED Trump to the debate. He couldn’t refuse to go through with it.

R20

[bold]Meathead joins the chorus of Joe's Gotta Go[/bold]

And that's fine, we have a perfectly good VP to step in at any moment. Why to people keep playing this silly game, even if he only makes it 1 year into his presidency, it's fine, Democrats will be in charge. The country wont be run by lying orange turd, convicted felon trying to convert our country into a dictatorship using the 2025 plan.

[bold]Mighty Joe Biden: You Want My Crown? Come Take it From Me[/bold]

There's nothing worse than that stupid argument. Kamala is the most well position to win if not Biden. She has has experience as a VP which every few can claim. Plus she is the only one that will have access to the 100's of millions their campaign raised. Has nothing to do with who's turn it is, she the logic choice just given the facts as well. Anyone else will be an even bigger uphill battle.

Nothing worse than a nonexistent unicorn candidate that has not been named wants to even do the job and has the money to do it.

[bold]Mighty Joe Biden: You Want My Crown? Come Take it From Me[/bold]

Russian Trolls all over the DL at this hour. They suck at their job and just wasting time. If I were Putin I would have them "accidentally"fall out of that Troll Farm Window.

Is there a way to contact the head of the Troll farm and report their lazy asses?

[bold]Mighty Joe Biden: You Want My Crown? Come Take it From Me[/bold]

YES WE ARE, stop picking on us = Troll Farm Employee

Now lets get back to dividing America by posting fake outrage and Biden must go articles and keep seeding decent for stupid Americans to fight over.

[bold]Mighty Joe Biden: You Want My Crown? Come Take it From Me[/bold]

Can Biden haters Read?

If the election were held today, who would you support:

Biden 50% / Trump 48%

[bold]Mighty Joe Biden: You Want My Crown? Come Take it From Me[/bold]

Who cares, if Biden only lives a year or two, that's all we need to defeat Trump. We have a perfectly good VP to step in at the drop of a hat.

Bless you r25!

R35 = Mighty Joe Biden troll

Kamala was the only possible nominee. With Blacks being a significant part of the Dem base, they would have been horribly insulted and would have avoided voting of Kamala were not nominated. We saw exactly that when Hillary was defeated--Blacks did not come out for her because there was no Black person on the ticket. THIS is exactly the reason Biden chose Kamala as his running mate the first term

Doesn't matter. The price of eggs is TOO HIGH!

[quote]Both parties are two sides of the same coin and in the end, it’s all about pleasing their corporate masters

Not to mention self interest. We may never know how many potential 2024 candidates kept their mouths shut because because 2024 was going to be a tough battle, and - if history is anything to go by - 2028 will be a shoo-in for a Democrat after four years of Trump. If you were driven by self-centered ambition, you wouldn't have been putting your hand up for 2024.

If Joe had not promised to have a woman Vice President and had instead chosen a seasoned Democratic governor under the age of 60 as a VP, we wouldn't be in this predicament.

I don’t know about their motives, but the Bidens did some baffling shit throughout her campaign, Joe siding with DeSantis, putting on the MAGA hat and grinning. Calling Trump supporters garbage. Then there was Jill’s voting attire. The Bidens have been in politics for decades, they know all about optics. And when the First Lady is casting her vote attired in all red it sends a weird message.

And Joes ebullient joy greeting Turnip as opposed to Barack’s “let’s get this shit over with” attitude in 2016 was very noticeable.

[quote] THIS is exactly the reason Biden chose Kamala as his running mate the first term

Biden chose Kamala has his running mate because James Clybourne demanded it in exchange for swinging the South Carolina Democratic machine into his column.

I have had it up to here with this nonsense about black voters holding the Democratic Party hostage. A record number of black voters shunned Kamala Harris.

...and you know what Harris's loss means?

No woman of color will be selected as the nominee for the Democratic Party for a generation.

No woman of color will be asked to be running mate.

That's the logical outcome of this discussion that we are being forced to rally around a coronated nominee because we can't afford to hurt black voters' feelings.

Please don't make me read the entire thread.

Who did Obama want as the Dem candidate? Who did Nancy want?

If they were supposedly so opposed to Kamala, they must have had someone else in mind.

There really was no outstanding alternative to Harris. The big mistake was Biden saying he’d pick a black female VP. Talk about identity politics. And then blacks didn’t really like her!

This is a bunch of bullshit, certainly the Biden/Harris bit.

I can’t believe how quickly the grab for power is happening in the Democratic Party, obviously trying to sully any attempt Harris makes for the nomination in 2028, which it’s already been reported a majority of registered Democrats already want.

Harris united the party, at least its supporters. I can’t believe how quickly the infighting has begun.

These people ousted Biden from the ticket which still may have been the dumbest thing to do. They were complicit in destroying Biden’s chances. But given the outcome, who’s to say Biden would’ve lost in the battle of two old white men, rather than boosting Trump’s chances with the added misogyny and racism that we all knew wouid come with the Harris nomination? We’ll never know but from the outset, given their lack of support for Biden, these people contributed as much to Trump’s win as the tech bros did.

R47 = Bidenists are just plain evil at this point.

[quote]I want an insider to write a book about this mess.

There will be an avalanche of them.

Apparently the voters didn’t want her either.

[quote]“But she was not ready for prime time, and then they rolled her out in prime time, and she got destroyed.”

I would hardly say that she got destroyed. Her campaign was a little over a 100 days and here are the current vote totals:

Trump - 76,861,090 votes (50%)

Harris - 74,368,622 votes (48.4%)

Stein - 775,502 votes (0.5%)

Kennedy - 752,265 votes (0.5%)

Other - 387,896 votes (0.3%)

Oliver (Libertarian guy) - 639,800 votes (0.4%)

Currently, Trump is winning by 1.6 points. While I understand that overall, national vote totals are not how we elect presidents in this country, it shows that she was not destroyed.

The key to this race is that a bunch of Biden voters stayed at home. Did the President endorse Kamala as a fuck you to Obama and Pelosi? Maybe. It appears he's still talking to and hanging out with Obama, not so much with Pelosi. But, as much as I love Pelosi, her dream man, Newsom, would not have won; he will never win. If Obama wanted someone else, it's not clear who that someone else was or is. I think it took Obama 5 days because he was waiting to see if anyone else would emerge. Who knows.

I hate relitigating this thing. She lost, he won, so let's move on, but here I am posting in this thread.

The real story of this election that no one seems to care about is what happened to 6 million Joe Biden voters?

Harris’s loss actually makes Newsom’s election more likely if not certain.

A lethal combination of machismo, theatricality and meanness calibrated for the internet age.

Forgive me -- I didn't read the thread -- but isn't News Nation a right-wing nut case media outlet?

Why are you even discussing this?

Play by play, Biden won the 2020 D nomination fair and square. He made a few big mistakes though.

1) Telling the world that only Black females will be considered for his VP. Those of us who do not watch right wing media, may have underestimated how that landed and how long it lasted. And it permanently undermined Harris as a "DEI hire" in the eyes of too many.

2) Taking the Presidency at age 78 and not committing to being a 1-termer due to the inexorable aging process. He just turned 82 and he seems even older. He was so fucking arrogant and in denial about that, and we all are paying a price for it now.

3) Creating and neglecting the 2021-2023 border crisis with the record-shattering surge of migrants, and (3a) giving VP Harris an empty role in the crisis that set her up for blame in the media,

4) Talking vague positivity about the strength of the US economy while people were struggling with the massive inflation spike of mid 2021 thru mid 2023. He needed to get honest and get in front of the inflation situation: it was global, it was real, and people were hurting from it.

Harris was the best choice possible from the vantage point of July 21, 2024. But she was weakened by all four of the above, and as the lesser half of the "Biden-Harris administration" she couldn't distance herself from Biden. She was a younger and female face representing continuation of the status quo, and this was not a "keep the status quo" electorate because Biden was not that good of a President.

R52, not unless the state of California makes a complete turnaround by 2028, which is unlikely.

Not so sure about all of this; I would imagine there is a rush for everyone to defend themselves, particularly Obama who still wants to be seen as a kingmaker & protect his legacy. Perhaps it's true, but they're all in ass-covering mode at this point.

Biden withdrew and picked Harris in a hour. Obama waited 5 days to support, it was obvious that Biden was doing a payback for his ouster,Anyone who runs for President is a narcissist so no real surprise.

At that late stage in the game who else would the nominee be? She was the only candidate who could claim his coffers and his delegates. Obama and Pelosi fucked over Hillary in 2016. What goes around comes around. Fuck them.

Kamela was certainly fit to be President. And much more obviously than Trump. Her problem was, she lost.

Whoever complains that we ran on saving democracy and didn't let democracy play out in a short primary all I have to say is that Republicans ran someone who engaged in treasonous insurrection and should have been disqualified from running. They weren't very democratic themselves. In fact there was nothing illegal about what Democrats did. Republicans on the other hand.

[quote]Kamela was certainly fit to be President. And much more obviously than Trump. Her problem was, she lost.

OUR problem is she lost

Obama and Pelosi deserve a big fuck you from all of us.

They were the ones who decided to play “queenmaker” in 15, anointing Hillary and denying Biden the nomination.

Obama was the one who told Biden to his face that Hillary would be his successor. The first woman following the first black man.

If Obama and Pelosi hadn’t been so arrogant we wouldn’t be where we are now. Trump would not have beat Biden in 16.

MAGATs get the majority of the blame for the state of our democracy, but Obama, Pelosi, Joe and Mika can all carry their share.

Biden fucked up being old school and protecting the executive and legislative branches from justice. Senators, congress people and the exiting president should all have faced Justice in the first two years of Biden's administration.

Only NYS succeeded in bringing Trump to face judement a tiny fraction of his crimes.

R15 et. al. As the dust settles I think post-game quarterbacking needs to, at least in part, be responsive to the data. Harris lost by 1.5% nationwide. Trump received under 50% of the popular vote. 250,000 voters in the Blue Wall s tates would have elected Harris. I do think she did a good job as candidate... but the campaign was not as capable as folks are given then credit. But it was a very, very close election and some small tweaks may have produced a different result.

Harris was tightly scripted and seemed too much like a politician (her answer on the View avoiding any criticism of Biden an example of how "careful" she was coached to be.) She was great on the debate, but in general needed to be more "authentic", because that was what the American voters in 2024 want. TV personalities, fluid speakers, entertaining.... podcast register that makes any content seem "regular" not bureau-speak representative of the Systems voters think is the problem... Go on Rogan? More than actually going on Rogan she needed not to be perceived as "afraid" to go on Rogan. It was symbolic of her remove from the every-day American. She would have (she, in fact, WAS) so much better in more informal situations.

That is what future candidates will need to do. One smart analyst pointed out that the long era of Obama was over. Soaring, inspiring rhetoric is no longer heard as anything other than "politico-speak" and the language of "them" not "us".... for 2028 Fetterman (WWE speech) is closer to the needed candidate than Shapiro (Obama, part II). Newsom is close to splitting the difference.

Last, the Harris campaign staffers (including Plouffe) were pathetic in the Pod Save America debrief this week. Self-justifying, defensive, argumentative.... they clearly didn't understand that the way elections used to won is no longer possible. The race they were trying to win was not the race that was actually being run...

R62 here adding to my own post.

Trump would not have beat Biden in the general.

And Hillary wouldn’t have beat him in the primary.

This is all crying over spilt milk. What's done is done. Time to stop finger pointing and to move forward.

R62 = the evil and delusion of Bidenists on full display

Trump Organisation guilty of criminal tax fraud, Trump himself guilty of fraud for Stormy Daniels, and Trump guilty of sexual assault. All NYS. Fuck the rest of the USA. Why weren't their own treasonous senators and congressmen prosecuted at the state level? Instead they were rewarded. Republicans are garbage.

R67 Moving forward without knowing what will work IN THE FUTURE is part of the problem. Harris ran in "the old style"... what IS the new style, what will work. Let's review what happened this time. I mean what the fuck, it's been a month. Unless we are smart about what can learn about this election... "going forward" won't help, and may just dig the hole deeper and five more power to The Edge Lord administration.

Not gonna lie, I am still shocked that 76 million people think it's okay that a convicted felon slash insurrectionist is okay to be President. The same people screaming about lawlessness in major cities and 'crooked Hillary' think that's okay. I'm old enough to remember congressional hearings about a blowjob, and here we are.

I am no Pollyanna by any means; I post on DL, but my God. I can wrap my head around people "not feeling" that Biden was a good president and I can understand people not being down with Harris for whatever reason, but what I can't get is Trump being the answer for those 76 million.

OP: Exactly what good does it do to rehash this shit over and over again? What's the fucking point? We lost. Move the fuck on. We have much bigger fish to fry, i.e. the potential loss of democracy for a dictatorship trio headed by a sexual pervert, an egomaniac immigrant, and a class clown son of immirgrant, than this constant navel gazing.

Who did they want?

Good post there at R65.

I still maintain that Harris lost mainly because she was "Biden-Harris" and this was a discontented electorate re: the incumbent and his administration. But your points about the changing ways Americans get and share information and form their world views... 100%. The next election will be won or lost not on CNN, and even not on "CNN plus all the other legacy media combined." That became all too clear in just the past few months.

R38 You’re not wrong. He needed to back down. Because there would be no other way. That’s why I will continue to say fuck him or the Biden family. Because he waited too late, his exact cause even quote unquote would be due to age and medical reasons. When a president cannot fully function, the VP steps up. If he stepped down in 2022, and assured he wasn’t going for a 2nd term as he promised, then we would have had a primary. And he would not have been “exposed”. It’s just a tragedy what happened.

WHY DIDN’T THIS ADMINISTRATION PROSECUTE TRUMP?

R52 It’s cute, dramatic, gives the liberal kids the THEE-TAH, and would be a great plot for an HBO drama, but if you think the governor of California can win in 2028 then the repubs will win every state in a Reagan-esque landslide.

[quote]Let's review what happened this time.

I tent to agree with this, courtesy of U. Illinois prof Nicholas Grossman. How to stop it from happening again, I don't know:

"What happened to America?

Part of the answer is that a bunch of people whose lives range from fairly comfortable and uneventful to wealthy and influential worked themselves into an insane lather of victimization by things that aren’t real, and that this justified a vicious, anti-democracy response."

Democrats have to realize that the American public is no longer enthralled with celebrities. It's not the 90s anymore. Social media and our 24/7 information culture have exposed most celebrities as being vapid cunts. The American public is much more cynical, they don't give a shit about George Clooney etc.

[quote]I literally cant imagine anyone else in the Democratic party at that time that could have run a better campaign with 3 months notice. At the end of the day, Trump appealed to the angry young male gamers, machismo Hispanic men and white women who wanted a daddy figure.

Absolutely. They wanted Daddy to come in and fix everything and make it better. They had no time for some uppity bitch from California.

[quote]"What happened to America? Part of the answer is that a bunch of people whose lives range from fairly comfortable and uneventful to wealthy and influential worked themselves into an insane lather of victimization by things that aren’t real, and that this justified a vicious, anti-democracy response."

Typical answer from an out of touch academic.

“If only we just used bigger and scarier words!”

My standby understanding is Trump's win was baked in and it wasn't Kamala lacking something. It was a legit, short, enthusiastic campaign and she is a qualified candidate. The missing democratic votes from Biden's election is a concerning mystery to solve.

I understand people seeing it completely differently. Trump made a massive fool of himself in his campaign, and 10 other fatal flaws and yet Kamala couldn't beat him. I think this about the cynicism of some American Republicans and the simpleness of other American Republicans. Simpleness = low IQ, low information, sexist, racist, emotional, herd-like, etc.

We can keep ignoring the main reason for Kamala’s loss at our own peril but it’s all about…

.[quote]I think this about the cynicism of some American Republicans and the simpleness of other American Republicans. Simpleness = low IQ, low information, sexist, racist, emotional, herd-like, etc.

You're vile. And talk about low IQ, that's you.

As if Inflation, chaos at the border, and a Democratic brand ruined by "woke" had nothing to do with it.

Biden was unpopular and Harris was more of the same. How many times are you going to list all of Trump’s faults. The voters didn’t care x100.

"Democrats have to realize that the American public is no longer enthralled with celebrities."

And yet Republicans and low IQ Americans just voted in the host of a TV game show called "CELEBRITY Apprentice," the same guy who has spent a personal fortune to keep his name in lights and in the newspapers and gossip columns ("best sex I ever had") for the last 40 years and to ensure his fake "bigger than life" personality has become a cult.

So, R78, your bullshit "theory" about Democrats being enthralled with celebrities is full of holes, and you are full of shit.

r86 Trump wasn't just a reality tv star. The public is just tired of celebrities in general, it's obvious. George Clooney, Lena Dunham etc. really hurt Democrats.

Meh r86.

I’m not that poster. But I agree with one layer, which is that when I saw the celebrities she had, I cringed a bit. I felt like, people are fucking POOR, most Americans cannot even afford tickets to see these people perform! But we’re supposed to listen to their politics, while *they* benefit from the very systems that oppress the rest of us? There is a huge hypocrisy in it. And I’m sure many felt it.

I guess all I’m saying is that I question if using them is an effective strategy for Dems moving forward is all. Kamala being caught paying them (I don’t give a shit, but it’s bad optics) and then ending up $20 mil in debt also will cause her career permanent damage because she’s twice run campaigns with financial problems. Rethugs will say “she couldn’t even manage a campaign budget without debt” and what’s the defense to that? I just don’t know if using celebrities works in this particular context anymore.

The "border crisis" is a made-up every big election-year crisis that will quietly go away now and won't show up again until '26. And let's fix inflation by bringing back the rich guy whose fucked up policies brought about inflation. And woke had nothing to do with $10 eggs. Now let's just sit back and watch as Trump takes credit for Biden's pretty damned good economy, but the voters didn't feel like it was good, so it's bad all bad.

Sometimes, I favor bringing back literacy tests to allow people to vote, but instead of literacy tests, use simple basic civics tests. If you can't pass them, you can't vote.

As for the celebrity thing, Democrats don't rely on celebrities. Many celebrities just flock to Democrats and they offer their time to help with voter engagement. There is nothing wrong with that. Chachi, Voight, and Kid Rock do it on the other side.

[quote]And yet Republicans and low IQ Americans just voted in the host of a TV game show called "CELEBRITY Apprentice,"

More clueless blather.

Love him or hate him, Trump was an ex-President.

Celebrity concerts did nothing to help Hillary win,. explain to us why you think it was a good idea for Kamala to do the same. And to spend tens of millions in doing it.

r89 - typical out of touch academic argument

[quote]The "border crisis" is a made-up every big election-year crisis that will quietly go away now and won't show up again until '26

R89 is so stupid he thinks the border crisis was "made up". As if the numbers were some sort of invention by the GOP. Good grief.

[quote]And woke had nothing to do with $10 eggs.

No one said it did. Got any other straw men to try out on us?

[quote]Now let's just sit back and watch as Trump takes credit for Biden's pretty damned good economy, but the voters didn't feel like it was good, so it's bad all bad.

If inflation starts to soar again, you as well as the rest of us, will be blaming it on Trump.

"The public is just tired of celebrities in general,"

And yet "the public" has no problem with Republican leaning celebrities like Brett Favre, Tom Brady. Patrick Mahomes, the late Chuck Woolery, Scott Baio, ad infinitum.

"George Clooney, Lena Dunham etc. really hurt Democrats." Lena Dunham? What outsized roll did she play in the Democrats loss? I think, R87, you're projecting your own dislike of certain celebrities and attempting to use it as a very lame excuse for Democrats losing earlier this month.

"But we’re supposed to listen to their politics, while *they* benefit from the very systems that oppress the rest of us? " First of all, Mary. Second of all, if you think you're oppressed now, just wait to Trump and Elmo and Rama-lama-ding dong curtail your civil rights, shred the social safety net to the point of non-existence and curtail your access to health care. You'll be cumming oppression, R88.

"[R89] - typical out of touch academic argument" R91: Typical armchair expert, self-appointed know-it-all and reactionary, knee-jerk wise guy.

[quote]If inflation starts to soar again, you as well as the rest of us, will be blaming it on Trump.

Sweet cheeks, I won't be blaming a thing on Trump for the next 4 years. I am a strong proponent of letting the voters get exactly what they voted for. You see, some of us are insulated from a lot of this nonsense. Let Trump burn it all down, I'll be just fine.

Wrong on all counts r93. You must not be paying attention to the current zeitgeist.

[quote] And yet "the public" has no problem with Republican leaning celebrities like Brett Favre, Tom Brady. Patrick Mahomes, the late Chuck Woolery, Scott Baio, ad infinitum.

Yes, that’s true. Because when the negative connotation of your party is that it’s a bunch of toothless hicks, it helps to have celebrities onstage to refute that. But when your party’s negative connotation is that it’s full of pampered coastal elites, having celebrities onstage is not helpful. More helpful would be finding average working class Americans who can speak firsthand as to how Democratic policies have improved their lives and will help others like them.

"You must not be paying attention to the current zeitgeist."

I've been on the DL for over 20 years, and this has to be the single most stupid, inane, inept, asinine posts in a sea full of bobbing turds of asinine posts.

"But when your party’s negative connotation is that it’s full of pampered coastal elites,"

But when your party's standard bearer is the epitome of coastal elites, a pampered, molly coddled, fat bloated , spoiled manchild whose daddy left him a hundred million (which he promptly squandered) Ivy League educated con artist/grifter who has never done a day of physical labor in his miserable life, it's okay to conveniently ignore that singular fact, right?

Harris raised and spent a billion dollars. 20 million is a small accounting error.

R93, I am r88. I stand by my sentiment. I’m not even saying that it’s accurate, but I am telling you that it is the *perception* that many have, logical or not. Of course I realize they use celebrities too. And of course u realize celebrities love our country and just want to help us win too. It’s complicated. I don’t blame celebrities for the oppression, but they DO benefit from it.

I am middle class. Maybe I’ll be ok? Maybe I won’t? I don’t know yet. But I work with incarcerated people, and I’m here to tell you I am on the frontlines in our systems, and yes, we are all oppressed. We could debate it all day. Do I think it’s going to get much worse now? Fuck yes! But I didn’t vote for this nightmare, and I fought it with everything I have. Did you (I hope)? Did you fight it? Or just post on DL non-stop and do no phone calls, no canvassing, no activism? I sleep at night knowing that I fought it. But will I be hurt once his policies go into effect? Of course! I’m self-employed, self-insured, and I have long-term health issues — so please back off with your snark because I did not vote for this shit, so don’t talk to me about cumming oppression because I’ve devoted my life’s work to trying to fix our broken systems.

But at the end of the day, I too look forward to these MFers getting what they voted for. I will *never* again engage in politics. It broke me. Our country as we knew it is over now, and it about killed me. I’m done trying to help, I’m right there with black women. I’m fucking done.

In regards to all the celebs— Internals, internals, internals. People do not watch legacy media. The KH campaign had to try SOMETHING. For the past 4 years regular Americans have been bombarded with non stop propaganda about migrants and trans people on social media, even non political fanfare—entertainment websites, gossip blogs. I sometimes play spades online on a site called pogo, you should look at the comments there and its people from all walks of life.

[quote]Obama and Pelosi deserve a big fuck you from all of us. They were the ones who decided to play “queenmaker” in 15, anointing Hillary and denying Biden the nomination.

Biden refused to run in 2016. How is that Obama and Pelosi's fault? How did they "deny" him a nomination he didn't seek?

r97 you're losing this argument.

R102 Brilliant and strategic response! (This is why the Republic died....)

R97 You are winning by every measure.

Celebrities? Oh right MAGA and Trump hate celebrities... except all the "influencers" and podcasters that feed their conspiracy jones. I think "celebrities" worked on both sides.... Tucker Carlson sucking Putin's dick was the kind of "celebrity" stunt that made MAGA wet. White bros jerked each other off just at a whiff of Joe Rogan's troll bait. The "power" of celebrity has enhanced, not diminished, in the digital hell in which we find ourselves.

Selah.

Oh just shut up r103. The reasons have clearly been stated why celebrities aren't a good look for Democrats at this moment in time.

[quote]Sweet cheeks, I won't be blaming a thing on Trump for the next 4 years. I am a strong proponent of letting the voters get exactly what they voted for. You see, some of us are insulated from a lot of this nonsense. Let Trump burn it all down, I'll be just fine.

Well, listen to HER!

r105, that poster is ABOVE IT ALL. He won't be affected by any of it like the rest of Americans. He's ELITE, you see.

[quote]You see, some of us are insulated from a lot of this nonsense.

So ridiculous it's not even worthy of a MARY!

[quote] It also revealed the degree to which Democrats are beholden to wealthy donors who have their own agenda

Just like the Rethuglicans. Elon Musk just bought the Presidency.

WHET Tim Walz?

R98, I'm sure the thousands of us who donated money that we really could have used elsewhere are all very comforted to know that $20 million is "a small accounting error." In that case, I want my donations back, because that money mattered to me, even if it was nothing but an "accounting error" to Kamala.

R101 The story that Biden refused to run is false.

Biden had every intention of running until Obama sat him down and told him his time had passed and Hillary would get the party’s backing.

To save face everyone told the tale that after Beau died Joe’s heart wasn’t in it.

R111, everyone has different scuttlebutt on that… my understanding is Obama warned Biden in early 2015 that if he competes against Hillary it will be a fight, a lot of women leaders and party machinery will be on Hillary’s side, and I (Obama) can’t endorse either one of you against the other.

R111 Beau would have never smoked crack in the White House.

There are many solid points made in this thread: I hold Obama and Biden responsible for the current state of our country. It is often easier to address problems early on than to fix them after they have worsened significantly.

**Obama is at fault because he ignored Putin. Despite warnings from both McCain and Romney, he failed to recognize the threat Russia posed. His FBI was riddled with spies, and Mike Flynn, who was the Director of National Intelligence, was never suspected of espionage. After Putin's actions in Ukraine, Obama did essentially nothing. He overlooked Russia's destruction in Syria, along with the ensuing deaths and refugee crisis.

**Biden should not have run for a second term. Early in his presidency, there were rumors about his limited work hours and time set aside for naps. His counterparts in NATO and the G7 recognized his weaknesses at meetings, and leaders like Macron, Trudeau, and Meloni openly expressed their disdain after Harris lost.

**More importantly, Biden also ignored Putin. While Boris Johnson raised alarms, Biden declared that Ukraine was not a strategic interest for the U.S. Instead of taking decisive action, he offered minimal support to prevent Ukraine from collapsing. Just like in Syria, Putin realized he could devastate Ukraine and cause widespread destruction as long as he refrained from using nuclear weapons. I can't believe America made that deal.

**Most significantly, Biden failed to confront Trump and his supporters from Day 1. Instead, he allowed Trump to spread hate and grow his presence on social media. In contrast, Lula in Brazil handled it better; during the G20 meeting, he showed clear disdain for the situation as well.

God is there anything more irritating than a Russophobe.

You helped Trump win. Hope you’re happy!

[quote][R105], that poster is ABOVE IT ALL. He won't be affected by any of it like the rest of Americans. He's ELITE, you see.

You better believe I'm above it all. I vote Democratic because it's the right thing to do, not because it's in my best interest. I'm a gay man with some money in the bank, it doesn't make me special, but I don't care if eggs are $10 or Frosted Flakes are $20.

I'm not married and don't ever plan to get married, so if he appoints a cadre of conservative judges and marriage rights get taken away, no biggie on me. I'm not a woman, so I'll never need an abortion or some kind of female surgery that may be a little too close to an abortion. I follow the rules; no cops are gonna pull me over or stop and frisk me. I'm not an immigrant, illegal or otherwise, my people have been here since 1619. No one's sending me back anywhere. I'm not trans, they're not coming for me. My pronouns are not in question. If cops are out of control, it's not my problem.

I gave a fuck up until this election. My fucks are done. America has told us, loudly and clearly, who she is ,and I believe her. It sucks that some people are going to have a tough time these next for years, but it's not my problem.

[quote] I'm a gay man with some money in the bank, it doesn't make me special, but I don't care if eggs are $10 or Frosted Flakes are $20.

$10 eggs and $20 breakfast cereal would mean inflation through the roof.

But R116 would go about her merry way without a care in the world!

r116 you sound like a real cunt.

White gay men could get thrown under the bus at any time. Conservatives hate us too.

[quote]I'm not married and don't ever plan to get married

And none of us are particularlly surprised by this.

Kamala won! I suspect by at least 2 points. The election was rigged. Trump told us so himself, "We don't need the votes"..

You know what else makes me certain? He had zero reaction to "winning". You'd think he would have expressed some relief or happiness that he was now gonna get away with all of his crimes. But there was no gloating.

He already knew it had been fixed. Remember that aide pulling him offstage after his "confession"? He was told to STFU!

R94's/R116's cynical, why-not-rub-it-in attitude may be offensive to you, but it's an understandable reaction (or *one of the* understandable human reactions, at least temporarily) in the wake of the odious election outcome. I called an older, distant relative of mine on Election Day because it coincided with his birthday. He's a retired orthopedic surgeon who has invested well and is very comfortably off, with homes in three blue states. He and his wife always vote for Democrats, even if it may not always be in their financial interest to do so. His quality of life, safety, and comfort likely won't be very much affected in the foreseeable future; like R94/R116, he will be relatively shielded from the harms inflicted by the incoming administration. It is always red-state residents who vote against their interests who suffer the most and who would benefit the most from being well informed. This has never been as blatantly clear as in the aftermath of the 2024 election. It's little wonder some people tend to get cynical and adopt a nihilistic attitude: they've seen and experienced all of this before. Other posters have recently expressed similarly bitter views on DL (without disclosing anything about their own position in life or maybe putting it quite as bluntly) and many people agreed with them.

R116 Ho when them flights to Fire Island and Palm Springs become astronomical then you will care.

[quote] The "border crisis" is a made-up every big election-year crisis that will quietly go away now and won't show up again until '26

I completely and unequivocally disagree.

You are wrong, wrong, wrong.

Mass migration is an enormous problem created by climate change. It will be the #1 international problem for decades to come as people from the global south move to cooler climes.

If you don't realize that, you're completely oblivious to the wY the world is right now. (That absolutely does not mean Trumop should have won, btw--by any means!--, but it means EVERY presidential candidate who wants to win is going to have to deal with it in the decades to come.)

r115 - I am NOT a Russiaphobe - I am a Russophile; love Russian art, literature, folkart, Swan Lake. When I visited Russia, I visited the Tetrakivov Gallery (the best collection of Russian art as opposed to imported art), attended a performance of Russian folkloric dances, and had a great time with the Russians themselves. Lovely people, with a great sense of humor--laugh-out-loud funny.

But I am a Putinphobe, most people who know about him are.

[quote]Mass migration is an enormous problem created by climate change.

Not it's not.

The mass migration to our southern border has nothing to do with climate change. It has to do with intractable poverty, despotic regimes, crime, lack of opportunity. Issues that have existed for decades.

The impoverished southern hemisphere is motivated to migrate to the economically comfortable northern hemisphere. That's the truth now and for the last 70 years. It's an ironic revenge for how colonization (formal and economic) took wealth from the south to build these comfortable societies in the north.

Climate change will, certainly, provoke waves of migration unimaginable to us now. But that's not happening yet.

Fuck Nancy Pelosi. Prehistoric cunt.

[quote]Lena Dunham? What outsized roll did she play in the Democrats loss?

What a delightful Freudian slip.

Migration caused by climate change will be a huge issue in the future. I don’t think it is currently. Liberal parties should have taken migration more seriously. Instead they gave the issue to populists and the right wing.

[Quote] and saddled us with a candidate that he knew was unfit to be President.

[Quote] No, with a candidate that couldn’t get elected. There’s a big difference.

She was unfit and unelectable

Ha! XL Parker House Roll

Kamala was completely unfit to be president.

First, she was complicit in the the cover up of Biden’s mental decline. It was absolutely foreseeable that he would drop out of the race. She had four years to think up an effective campaign.

She didn’t. She also didn’t invoke the 25th Amendment to remove Biden from office and take over as President.

She is not leadership material.

[quote] “Pelosi told her California delegation, there will be a conference, there will be a caucus, there will be a convention,” Morgan said, a point touched upon by many Republican politicians and commentators during the process.

Pelosi should be at home knitting. Obama is not so detached from reality that he believes it would have been advisable to leapfrog over the Black female VP to anoint some random white dude as a successor to an unpopular random white dude. Obama is an inspiring dude but not a savvy political mind. If you lose Black women, you lose Black people and you lose the race.

[quote] It's about the treachery of Joe Biden.

His treachery began in 2022 when he didn't set things in in motion to pass the torch.

[quote] It's about how Obama and Pelosi wanted the process to play out, as democratically as possible.

It's about hubris, Obama and Pelosi are not Kingmakers. Obama gave us HRC and then Biden. If that was his best he should have outsourced -- or begged Michelle to run. Pelosi just wanted her golden boy Newsom, who would have gone down in flames. You know Newsom and his arrogance in flagrantly thrusting same-sex marriage into the national spotlight is one of the reasons we got a second term of Bush in 2004. We need leaders not egos, that only works for Deplorables and Rethuglicans.

[quote]If you lose Black women, you lose Black people and you lose the race.

Blacks didn’t like Kamala Harris. In the run-up to the 2020 primaries, Blacks overwhelmingly supported Biden while Harris polled very low. She dropped out before any primary votes were cast.

[quote] Blacks didn’t like Kamala Harris. In the run-up to the 2020 primaries, Blacks overwhelmingly supported Biden while Harris polled very low. She dropped out before any primary votes were cast.

False! Harris won more Black men and women (86%) than Trump won white men (60%). There is too much freely available information to just make shit up.

Read.

This thread... just bullshit trolling and that's supposed to be "real" or "facts"....

r137 needs to re-read.

Yes let's believe NewsNation?????? THE white supremist NewsNation??? TROLL POST

"Since its launch, NewsNation has been criticized for a rightward tilt in its guests and for hiring former Fox News Channel chief and White House Deputy Chief of Staff Bill Shine as a consultant."

Didn’t Kamala lose some black vote that Biden had had?

r141 Yes.

[quote]Harris underperformed with voters of color − particularly Latino voters − but also Black voters in urban centers such as Philadelphia, Detroit and Milwaukee. Harris carried Black voters 86%-12% and Latino voters 53%-45%, according to CNN exit polls. [bold]But in the 2020 election, Biden won Black voters by a wider 92%-8% margin over Trump, and Latino voters 65%-32%.[/bold]

[quote] [R137] needs to re-read.

Bitch, this is all I needed to read to know what was being said:

[quote] Blacks didn’t like Kamala Harris...

This statement is dumb, condescending and patently false. The rest of what was written was bullshit referring to a point in time as inconsequential as the brand of Trump's adult diapers.

Months ago when she was pushed forward as the Democratic nominee, I kept warning how Black people weren't feeling her as much compared to past Democratic candidates who have won the presidency; especially Black men.

The bubbled DLer response: "Bullshit!!" "Troll!"

She lost. Exit polls show that she underperformed with Black voters compared to her colleagues in the past and that Trump improved his numbers with not just Black voters, but every minority group in the entire country. A country that even saw true blue states such as CA and NY shift more to the right the election.

The bubbled DLer response to actual numbers and exit poll data: "Bullshit!"

How Sway?

I think back at moments when, if I allowed it, I thought there was a possibility that she would lose.

1) The View. A softball to confirm the "Harris Movement" was young and new... "I can't think of anything in the Biden Admin that I would do differently." Conclusion: she is Biden, no matter how unpopular he had become.

2) Obama's "speech" to black men a few days after the convention. Hectoring. Guilt producing. Insulting. "Black women have been raising us up for a long time...now it's time for us have her back." The response of the crowd was... lukewarm. Why was Obama, the master of inspiring rhetoric, falling flat? He, an elite, was lecturing black men on what to do. In retrospect... the age of Obama was over before 2024.

Soaring rhetoric? Nah. It's the era of podcasters and trolls. Is this good? No. But you need to run the race that IS, not the race you WANT.

What have the Obama’s done since leaving the White House except buy houses and hang with rich people? That’s fine for them, but they’re in no position to lecture regular people.

Obamas

[quote]2) Obama's "speech" to black men a few days after the convention. Hectoring. Guilt producing. Insulting. "Black women have been raising us up for a long time...now it's time for us have her back." The response of the crowd was... lukewarm. Why was Obama, the master of inspiring rhetoric, falling flat? He, an elite, was lecturing black men on what to do. In retrospect... the age of Obama was over before 2024.

Not to mention, he was raised by his white mother/family.

R145. They had to do something. They were throwing sticks at walls. No one from this administration would have beat Trump. I don’t think it came across as bad as the media portrayed. The were silence I the room because there was probably confusion. A democratic candidate only polling in the mid 60 percentage with black men is a democratic candidate dead in water. They knew this. It’s sad and frustrating that black men would choose a candidate like Trump to be the one to finally make in roads with the black community. It’s much more complicated. And people see all these black queens shoved down our throats while any exhibit of traditional masculinity is criticized.

I is Teacake and I be a mafuckin badass hood rat yo!

R149 Harris barely loss. Had she run in a primary, honed her message, been more distanced from Biden, been able to be looser and more assertive, adapted more to social media etc.... she might easily have won. The "black queens shoved down our throats" isn't analysis, it is dried piss.

[quote] 2) Obama's "speech" to black men a few days after the convention. Hectoring. Guilt producing. Insulting. "Black women have been raising us up for a long time...now it's time for us have her back." The response of the crowd was... lukewarm. Why was Obama, the master of inspiring rhetoric, falling flat? He, an elite, was lecturing black men on what to do. In retrospect... the age of Obama was over before 2024.

I don't disagree with you. Obama is a man of hope, inspiration and accomplishment. Quietly and with some humility doing the work without the victory lap. A Black man who has labored to belie common, stereotypically racist beliefs about Black men.

On the other hand, Trump brazenly exhibits all the common, stereotypically racist characteristics whites have long accused Black men of possessing. He is a lifelong underachiever, lazy, arrogant, immoral, combative, perpetually aggrieved, lacking humility and always claiming that people are out to get him. The hallmark of Trump is that things are "rigged" to ensure his failure, and that he is being unfairly persecuted not because he is a criminal but just because people don't like "Trump."

Trump's character, messaging and presentation is completely consistent with what young men of color are constantly told they CANNOT do if they want to succeed. Refined, bougie (i.e. corny) Black men like Obama are not their role models. They like ugly caricatures of power and authority like Trump. They can appreciate that he arrived where he is in life with little or no effort, and zero humility. Trump is the first, maybe the most prominent white man to ever flagrantly wear his staggering mediocrity, dubious character, paranoia and demand for loyalty over integrity as a badge of honor. He is comfortable knowing the civilized world loathes him as long as he has the adoration and loyalty of his gang.

It's very depressing but I see why he appealed to young un-/undereducated men of color. They feel aggrieved, they feel persecuted, they don't want to forebear and labor for respect and acceptance that will always be withheld by the majority culture. They are suspicious of authority, contemptuous of law enforcement and believe -- perhaps correctly -- that they will be targeted for punishment and contempt because of who they are regardless of what they do.

Trump has made himself a kindred soul of the feared urban man of color. His grotesque "swagger" resonated with them and he got some of their votes.

Obama and Pelosi - two of the biggest narcissists in politics. Fuck them and the rest of the cabal including that weak-minded, jerkoff Plouffe. Time for Pelosi and Schumer to step down. The truth is the United States will never elect a woman. Of any color, ability or achievement. That's the real truth.

r152 yea but look at where he did the best among black men. Not so much urban. Suburban black men in North Carolina and Wisconsin. I completely disagree with you r153. Never let one factor among many allow you to reach massive generalizations. I think some of you partially, at least to a subconscious degree, thought the country(ie white women) would want to amend their sins from 2016, when all the data demonstrated how deeply unpopular this administration was. Ok, rewind back to 2016. Both candidates were household names. One a larger than life business mogul, another deeply connected to the Beltway and feminist icon. Now you have 8 years of the incumbent president, and the country wanted an anti-establishment candidate. Yes sexism played a role, but the democratic candidate was literally the poster girl of DC politics. Now factor in the swing states. They hate Washington much more so than they should. This year we have another candidate-- a woman who is the sitting VP of a deeply deeply unpopular administration. It IS racism that someone like Trump could ever come to fruition. That a multimillionaire could release a full page ad in the Post calling for 5 black teenagers to be hung and then get their own show on NBC a decade later. That he would not be tried upon immediately causing an insurrection. That instead of actually gaging the seriousness of Trump's rhetoric back in 2016, news agencies, cough Morning Joe, would use him for ratings. Reverend Wright told no motherfucking lies in his sermons.

[quote] [R152] yea but look at where he did the best among black men. Not so much urban. Suburban black men in North Carolina and Wisconsin.

He won Black men, or kept them from voting, in urban centers -- Charlotte, Detroit, Philly, Pittsburgh, Atlanta and Milwaukee -- where the numerically meaningful Black electorate resides. Even so, you shouldn't take the term "urban" so literally. "Urban culture" exists in cities, suburbs and rural areas. The young Black men who vote for Trump are united by ideas and experiences irrespective of geography.

Harris was an excellent candidate, but the situation in blocking Republicans at every level is so dire that anyone with a grain of sense would vote for any Democrat with body heat.

We cannot afford to be nit picky purists. Some other time maybe when we have that luxury, but not now.

r155 I agree with you about urban culture; you're right. Also words have power. Trump did not win black men anywhere. He made significant gains. To be honest, democrats have taken for granted that blacks vote 90% democratic in nearly every election. Perhaps these new coalitions forming will make the party more working class again, and whites will see the harm in voting against their economic interests.

Working class? All income levels below $100k went for Trump, all over $100k went Harris. MAGA is the opiate of the masses.

r158 anyway around the paywall?

[Quote]And people see all these black queens shoved down our throats while any exhibit of traditional masculinity is criticized.

R149 Black men are sick of being emasculated by society and Black women. Especially if they're more blue collar. This is why the Democrats are losing Black males to either political apathy or the right.

The societal emasculation goes back to slavery days, honestly. I've seen and heard a lot of Black men labeling the Democratic party as the party of women, gays, and "Autobots" (IYKYK). That's how I knew there was blood in water for Dems several months ago.

I'm not sure what would make a black man feel emasculated for supporting decency to others. It's actually the antithesis of what most MAGAs think of a black man. If they acted in any way disrespectful they would be crucified by MAGA

[quote] I'm not sure what would make a black man feel emasculated for supporting decency to others. It's actually the antithesis of what most MAGAs think of a black man. If they acted in any way disrespectful they would be crucified by MAGA

MAGA is openly hostile to Black men, Black women and the Black family. Using "woke" as a pejorative, resoundingly rejecting 50 years of imperfect affirmative action after 400 years of oppression and exclusion, and banning critical race theory and any discussion of structural racism, the intergenerational caste system of Amerikkka and white privilege because it might make little WHITE kids feel bad about themselves. Hurting white kids' feelings is of greater concern than cops killing 12 year old Tamar Rice for playing with a toy gun in a public park -- a fate that will never befall a white kid. Any Black person who supports Trump because of this foolishness of being "emasculated" need only look at Tim Scott -- almost 60 and forced to marry that homely white lady just to maybe possibly almost be Trump's head valet.

If Biden had announced halfway through his term (with Covid/shutdown still in the nightly news) that he was not running for re-election, it would be blood in the water. Mass frenzy by the media, a confirmation that his presidency was a failure, and he’d be a lame duck president not able to accomplish anything.

Two years, because that’s the ridiculous amount of lead time candidates need to get up and running.

Likewise, Trump can’t run again and it will be entertaining in a sick way to see his potential successors hovering around, humiliating themselves to kiss the ring.

Pelosi probably wanted her hometown boy, Gavin Newsom.