What periods of history are you looking at right now as we face Trump's second term?

I see it as Weimar Germany.

Divisive and damaging as Thatcher was, she wasn't stupid, sleazy and decadent. She had a robust intelligence, and so did most of her Cabinet appointees. They could stand up to sharp Parliamentary and journalistic questioning. Incredulity and ridicule was not the case, as with Trump right now. Trump's modus operandi is the most vulgar, ignorant and irresponsible I've seen in any western government in my too-long lifetime.

Thatcher?? Thatcher was actually smart.

We are being pyched jobed to the max. It’s a psyc war.

None of those cabinet people will be confirmed. This is some brainwash job they are trying to pull. It’s not even politics anymore. It’s just brainwashing through cell phones at this point. MK ultra type shit.

I see the thatcher comparison which was essentially Reaganism too but all seems a bit quaint to what they are trying to now.

We need to do something as a society before these evil fuckers get control of god knows what technology. Bad combo.

Orbán's Hungary, the present day

Yeah but Americans are not going to go along with this except for a faithful few fools who will follow him off a cliff. Except he doesn’t fall with them.

Third Reich

Thatcher's main crime was closing the coal pits. She didn't deprive queer people of their rights or threaten to remove abortion/contraception. AIDS was far better managed in the UK than in the US.

Lots of republicans end up with Alzheimer’s. I wonder if there is a connection.

The fall of Rome

[quote]Orbán's Hungary, the present day

R6 - this is what I'm thinking about too - Viktor Orbán and what he's done to Hungary. Trump has repeatedly said he wants to do most of the things which Orbán has done to ensure he remains in power in Hungry with no opposition able to be elected and no dissenters. Trump's administration nomination list seems to point to this direction so far. I think this is what we can expect to see from the Trump presidency. An attempt to recreate as much of what Orbán' has done as possible. Very worrying.

I’m looking back to his first term which was one consecutive failure after the other. Just like his business. His marriages. His friendships they are all failures. Even his kids. Every single one was a colossal failure. Remember Ivankas counterfeit shoe line?

Everything they try to do is a complete failure. He can’t even play golf after all these years. He’s failed at that too.

He failed at school. Not a single person likes him. Even his rallies were hollow at the end. They couldn’t even pay people to fill out the stadiums.

He’s no dictator. He inspires no passion. He was a protest vote. Not a savior in the night.

Trump is no Orbam. He is no Hitler. He is not even Ragan when it comes to genuine devotion.

He has no coalition, no respect. He has a fickle hold a small few. He has no hope to come out of this anything other than a two time failure.

No period of history for us to draw from, OP.

We are in a position we have never ever seen before to due advancements in multiple sectors, and if we’re around as a species in 500 years, they will probably answer similarly.

The things that have not improved or changed much are a head scratcher for me, in the sense that I suppose I wasn’t perceiving true human suffering, aptly.

I am now, and I hope all of us understand how fucked up we are to expect one side or the other to do right by us or others.

Sometimes… it is “both sides”.

Hear me out: The Q-Anon fucks and the hysterical Karens & Kens love to crow about child sex trafficking, and by doing so, truly distract themselves and even us, from “snapping out” of some online Zeitgeist about saving the children. But why just children?

There is a HUGE amount of people on this planet who are living their lives in actual bondage. They are very much, in all senses of the word, slaves. They’re exploited by everyone one down the chain, from country to country, bought and sold for free labor.

The United States is in on the action as well, but we frame these abominations which we actively participate in, as the “illegal immigrants” problem.

Those people, those immigrants, are here and in other places around the globe, like Europe, because they have NOTHING. They are where they are, because they provide sweat equity by being forced to toil in abhorrent conditions for hours that would break any of us in a few days.

We have a disgusting, deplorable problem in this country by refusing to acknowledge this. We’re sick for not ripping that fucking band aid off, denying their humanity by perpetually losing our own.

The illegals are here to make some very fucked up people a LOT of money, while subsidizing our way of life and comfort. Their existence will continue to be spoon fed to us by a corrupt government, institutions & media that tell us to just chew away the problem and spit them all out, but NOT one second before they can be used as bullshit wedge issues in politics, and provide their bodies with a dollar amount on each.

This is not the way a decent society is to conduct itself. This is an ABSOLUTELY horrific way to govern, and it’s a fucking pity that so many refuse to understand that our greed has created this problem on a global scale.

I hope that whatever advances are made long after we are gone, remedies this evil injustice.

I’m thinking back to the wars that were fought for us to be able to have freedom and guaranteed bill of rights.

And how quickly the republicans will sell us out.

For as long as we are human, we must keep the idea of liberty and personal rights as loud and constant message. Plaster it everywhere. We need to drape ourselves in the American flag and all it represents. Past and future. The good and the bad.

Don’t let these traitors take the flag that belongs to us. So do all the rights and freedoms that come with it.

We survive with this common goal and common mantra at the forefront. And we fight to liberate others as we go and to spread liberty and the pursuit of happiness as a fundamental right. We don’t have to live under these dictators any more. There are billions more of us than there are of them. Enough is enough. We need to liberate the whole word. One at a time if that’s what it takes.

[quote]She [Thatcher] didn't deprive queer people of their rights

Don't forget Section 28:

[quote]Clause 28, or Section 28 of the Local Government Act, was a law introduced by Margaret Thatcher’s Conservative Government in 1988. It followed controversies about sex education and objections, mainly from Conservative MPs, about the championing of gay causes by Labour-led councils. LGBTQ+ people were becoming more confident and visible in the worlds of pop music, television and film, but there was still a great deal of prejudice present in the national discourse. This law banned local authorities from ‘promoting homosexuality’. This meant for example that state schools and local councils could not teach about or discuss LGBTQ+-related topics.

[quote]Tory Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher said at the time: "Children who need to be taught to respect traditional moral values are being taught that they have an inalienable right to be gay. All of those children are being cheated of a sound start in life."

Don’t be afraid. Be brave and survive long enough for fortunes to turn.

But whatever you do, do not ever submit. Not in your mind. Not in your heart

Many people have tried to deny the human spirit and so far every one has failed. It endures and will endure and longs to be free. as we spread this message. And carry the light for others. We survive together.

This election will end up putting democracy and freedom as the most popular political issues for 50 years. It will bring about the greatest reforms in a century and a return to democratic from once everyone sees the horrors of a wannabe dictator in the flesh. He had to much cover last time. Now he has no one left to hide behind. He has no one left to blame.

The republican have overplayed their hand.

That’s why Jill Stien is at the ready because the replicant plan is falling apart. She is the back up plan for the foreign donors. If trump fails is all on her to drag the democrats from the “fake left”.

More anti-gay Thatcher:

I think Thatcher was bipolar or otherwise cray cray. She seemed to be detached from reality. And a pseudo-intellectual. And possibly a sociopath.

Thatcher and Reagan are rolling over in their graves over what has become of the pro-Russia conservative parties.

Thatcher voted to decriminalize homosexuality. She wasn’t a gay hater. Her speechwriter was also gay. She has blemishes on her record but so does the majority of the left pre-2010 when it comes to gay rights. Thatcher would be considered a Blue Dog Democrat in the US. She turned Britain completely around for the better in the end. The entire country was dependent on the state post-WWII. The UK was going under. She made the UK a financial powerhouse. Her policies hurt people but she did what was necessary to make the UK competitive in the coming 21st century. She even defended Labour which was dealing with what Democrats are dealing with now - far-left lunacy via progressives. Neo-communists. Labour went from having a fringe element to being almost completely overrun with them. The 80s were a really interesting time for Britain. Thatcher deserves way more credit that Reagan for toppling the Soviet Union. She had balls of steel and didn’t play the victim card.

[quote] I think Thatcher was bipolar or otherwise cray cray. She seemed to be detached from reality. And a pseudo-intellectual. And possibly a sociopath.

No, she was a politician and a leader who did what she said.

Thatcher’s daughter is a character. You would never believe she was Margaret’s daughter. She’s hilarious.

Sociopath for sure. There's a direct line between her cuntery and the Brexit she likely wouldn't want. Also, anyone who doesn't get how anti-gay Thatcher and her ilk were aren't with interacting with. That's some serious dumb.

I think this term will be where Trump's Roy Cohn side really comes out, so looking back on McCarthyism and the House Unamerican Activities Committee, the Rosenbergs, and all that might be helpful. There's going to be people made an example of, and we'll all fall over ourselves in 15-20 years about how wrong it was, but nobody will stop it. Fucking humans.

Franco or some guy with a Roman legion crossing some river.

And who could be more clueless after the absolute beating DL and the Dems just took to say in public that trump won’t get any of his noms thru the confirmation process?

The smart money would be on he might not get one approved.

Mussolini

Franco

Interesting podcast on this here that adds in Pinochet to the mix, among many other things.

Rome under Emperor Caligula

[quote]Also, anyone who doesn't get how anti-gay Thatcher and her ilk were aren't with interacting with. That's some serious dumb.

Indeed.

[quote]I never met her. Maybe Thatcher didn't hate gay people that she knew. This makes it more despicable that she was willing to throw us – including kids like me, desperate for help in 1988 when section 28 came in – to the wolves for the sake of a few poll points. What she did do was inflict huge damage on a community that desperately needed support, and smashed down any possibility of supporting confused children or educating them about how to not catch HIV.

[quote][quote]Most symbolically, they say, she was one of the few Tories to vote for the decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1967. Whoop-dee-doo. One of the arguments of that time was that gay people should be free from threat of prison so they could "seek treatment".

Thatcher put out those terrifying anti AIDS adverts on national television while Reagan was still pretending that the disease didn't exist. The ads were baroque and over the top but they did get across the message that AIDS was a disease that could infect anyone not just gay men.

R36 IV Drug addicts and those who depended on the blood supply and those that exchanged sex for drugs?

It was always in the US an epidemic among the high risk

The "crisis period" of first century AD Roman empire, when emperors keep getting replaced after short stints.

We are already inside of this with the Trump/Biden/Trump election outcome. Trump may not make it through this new term, leading to Vance. Either way there will probably be some Democrat or other candidate who wins in 2028 and then only lasts four years. This rapid turnover of leaders leads to chaos and instability.

Thanks R18 - R9 is an idiot. Thatcher absolutely took away gay rights and pushed us backwards. I don't know what R9 is talking about.

And as much as Thatcher didn't restrict abortion rights - neither did Reagan. The freedom and laws were too new. Reagan wasn't ferverently anti-abortion either.

Was Thatcher apologist R9 alive during the 1980s? R9 should have a word with Russell T. Davies (b. 1963).

[quote]Records released by the UK’s National Archive show that Margaret Thatcher opposed AIDS education on the grounds that teenagers might learn about anal sex. In response to her health secretary’s plan for an educational ad campaign, she wrote back, “Do we have to have the section on risky sex? I should have thought it could do immense harm if young teenagers were to read it?”

Sorry to derail this US/Trump thread with UK/Thatcher stuff. That was my last post on this topic.

Well - when people like R9 just make up shit and say uninformed statements - they need to be corrected.

For the life of me, I'll never understand when people will just state a 'feeling' online as fact without doing a Google search to confirm their statement.

Nope - too hard. R9 just says what he thinks - not based on any information. And that's infuriating.

So it was thatcher who was anti actual aids education and Reagan who gave Koop freedom to say any damn thing he wanted about aids,

Go USA

"This election will end up putting democracy and freedom as the most popular political issues for 50 years. It will bring about the greatest reforms in a century and a return to democratic from once everyone sees the horrors of a wannabe dictator in the flesh."

You're giving Americans far more credit than they deserve. We are about to see Americans as the petty, vindictive cunts they really are, desperately hiding behind the facades of their faux patriotism and faux religious piety.

And Americans voted elected a petty, vindictive bitch not once, but twice, just to show the world how awful they really are.

And there’s always the example of the Ceaușescus in Romania.

I’m looking forward to the period of history when the pendulum swings back to a more moderate and sane view than the previous 8 years of radical far left activism.

[quote]when the pendulum swings back to a more moderate and sane view than the previous 8 years of radical far left activism.

... while virtually the entire Western world has swung to the right in national and local elections.

Animal Farm

Not true, r47. But you go on ahead with that confirmation bias.

R49: I am typing this from the Netherlands, where we currently have a right-of-center coalition in place led by noted right-wing provocateur Geert Wilders. If elections were to be held today, his party would secure an even bigger victory than in 2023. Also: heard of Brothers of Italy? Alternative for Germany? The Freedom Party of Austria? France's National Rally, which amassed 142 seats in the last election, the most of any single party? (It also won around 37 percent of the votes nationally, the most of any party). Are you familiar with the Sweden Democrats, a nationalist and right-wing populist political party that is currently the second-largest party in the Swedish parliament? Then there's Finland, Croatia, Switzerland (Swiss People's Party), Argentia (if you want to consider that part of the West), and Israel's neo-Messianic government of religious extremists (ditto). In Canada, the conservative party is expected to have a successful election next cycle, and many of them have given soft endorsement to people like Donald Trump.

In fact, Labour winning in the U.K. this year was considered an "outlier," as it was one of the only countries in Europe that bucked the trend. But by all means, keep denying that there's a trend at all.

Don't patronise me. It's not a clean sweep. EU Parliament moved slightly right. UK moved left. Ireland will stay in a centrist coalition. T

Right-wing parties are in the ascendancy across the West and beyond--it's not patronizing to point that out, nor "confirmation bias," just one of the facts of the world in 2024. Switzerland, Austria, Germany, Italy, and the Netherlands (for starters) all have right-wing ruling parties, as do Argentina, Croatia, Latvia, Slovakia (Robert Fico), Finland, and soon the United States.

Why are you posting links from almost a year ago ?

It's not a monolith. We disagree. Move on.

What does the date of the article matter? The political parties I mentioned are all currently in place. There's nothing in the article I posted that is no longer valid, or hasn't turned out to be correct, or that undermines the facts I stated. In any case, if you googled you'd find hundreds more recent articles reporting on the same developments.

Are we really arguing something this obvious? If you're going to contradict recent historical facts that are borne out by countless sources, at least come up with something less lame than the dates of articles.

No, I'm just letting you prattle on while I'm pointing out that all politics are local, giving examples of local variances. I'm just as alarmed as you are.

Gurl, I don't care about your politics. I just suck a dick.

R52 That's an excellent London School of Economics article. Thank you for linking it because I never would have found it on my own. Much food for thought.

MINE!