I have no confidence that Democrats have learned their lesson

What policy shifts do you suggest? Economic isolationism? Mass deportation? A federal ban on abortion? Because that’s apparently what the fickle American people want right now.

The lesson is to NOT be Israel’s puppet and to leave that to the Rethuglicans.

There were millions of young democrats telling us they wouldn’t vote for Biden or Harris or any democrat this year because of the Palestinian conflict, to many protests happening in universities during the 1st semester even in red states….

Apparently they were not joking.

biden's foreign policy towards israel I didn't like.

Go woke go broke, writ large.

Not to worry, there won’t be one in four years thanks to you Trumptards.

R2, the students who hate Israel and stage the performative protests are not representative of young people as a whole.

For all of the "millions" of young people who hate Israel there are millions of other young voters who know that there is a war going on and are disgusted by the videos of people ripping down posters of kidnapped Americans and kidnapped babies.

If you want the Democrats to appease a small but very vocal minority of the country then enjoy the rest of your life under the Republicans.

I said this in another topic, but I'm getting a bit sick of seeing people saying Democrats need to essentially become more right wing. Or "well, if you insult the American people this is what happens!"

Did Trump or MAGA change following their 2020 defeat? Nope. Yet they still won in 2024.

The left have a problem with immigration in that they think ANY criticism of it is racist.

Someone posted in another thread that there were over a million illegal workers in the US and the economy would grind to a halt if they were all deported.

So the companies knowingly employing illegal migrants on the cheap do so knowing they could employ actual American nationals but don't because then they'd have to comply with employment legislation? And who is impacted mostly by this? Maybe the Latino voters who went to Trump?

Employment rights are a left wing issue - it's not difficult to piece together a policy on this that puts workers first.

Trolls be trolling.

[quote]The left have a problem with immigration in that they think ANY criticism of it is racist.

I kind of agree, but that's mostly because the majority of anti immigration rhetoric does have at least a whiff of prejudice at its heart. Much of it can be boiled down to: "you're not like me, you don't belong here like I do".

And I think it annoys people even more when it comes from those who are either immigrants or children of immigrants because it has a "I was happy to benefit from it, but let's raise the drawbridge now, because I don't want others here" feeling to it.

R10 thanks for articulating so well why people who think of themselves as liberal and progressive are really quite not as liberal as they think.

You don't see Latinos (for example) as American in the same way you are American. Whereas they see themselves as American in the same way you are. Essentially you think they should be grateful for being allowed to live in America which is why there was so much anger at a huge percentage of Latinos voting Republican.

A lot of left wing people think Latinos should have a particular view on a policy because of who their grandparents were, but wouldn't expect white people to vote based on who their grandparents were.

Why shouldn't the grand children of legal migrants consider illegal immigration to be bad, when it directly impacts their employment prospects?

r11 White liberals have really shown their true colors with how they've lashed out at Latinos, Arabs, and Black people since Tuesday. Especially all over DL. It's been interesting to witness because I've been saying for years that White liberals are just as racist because of how much they look down on us as pathetic and helpless. They think we need them and should be "grateful" for their supposed "allyship." Then when they see a lot of us not "falling in line" their "racist slips" start showing.

DL has been on one since the election and it's fucking gross, but I am not surprised. It's mostly White dudes on here. I'm not surprised in the slightest.

I agree Mao.

I’m British and see the same thing here and the abuse directed at Black and Asian conservatives who are called race traitors because they consider themselves British first. And it’s not as if their bad politics can’t be challenged easily.

Trump is proud of Scottish heritage, Biden is proud of Irish heritage, but Scottish and Irish American aren’t told to vote certain way.

Unfortunately they will never learn their lesson because too many women have been put in charge.

R11 Well, first of all I'm not American (nor do I live there), so that's irrelevant to my comment. And I wasn't talking solely about illegal immigration - some legal immigrants are also against legal immigration because they see it as competition.

That's not to say they're completely against any immigration of course, but they're often the first to speak up about drastically reducing numbers, even if they themselves benefited from it. Which just seems incredibly selfish to me.

T12 sweetheart without white liberals there would be no inmigrants, no gay marriage, no abortion rights and the lists goes on and on and on. There is a right to vote for whoever you want, but when you vote against the very ones that opened the doors to you, that still fight for you, guess what those very white liberals who are in the majority will say fuck you , you betrayed us by empowering the very people that treat you like shit, you are on your own now. The democrats have that right too. Do not expect democrats to simply say of, you slap me and I give you the other cheek.

R16 - telling people to be grateful isn’t a winning strategy. 🤷‍♀️

[quote]sweetheart without white liberals there would be no inmigrants

Incorrect. Reagan's policies actually helped to spearhead both legal and illegal immigration in this country with Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. Try again, r16.

[quote]no gay marriage, no abortion rights and the lists goes on and on and on.

None of these are exclusively race issues. That's your problem. You see yourselves as "our saviors" and it's time out for that. Sit down. Be humble.

We can’t learn any lesson a week after the election. That’s not how any of this works.

We don’t know what 2026 or 2028 will look like. There might be whole new coalitions. In 2022, bo one would have predicted Israel/Palestine would threaten to rip apart the Democrats. 2026 may be about hyper inflation or economic collapse or the lack of Social Security funding that will automatically cut benefits. People who are truly suffering are less willing to slop up the bullshit Republicans have been serving.

I have no confidence Republicans actually won

I gave $250 to Kamala and they spent 1M on Oprah and much more on other celebrities. I am pissed.

Until Senator Robert Byrd retired, West Virginia used to be as blue as it is red now. It was once the sight of actual battles leading to bloodshed between mine guards and unionized workers in the 1920s. It would go blue if there were Democrats in the Senate really pushing to get help for it, which is what Byrd did. But “life is old there,” like in the John Denver song, so on any other issue besides worker’s rights, they are behind the times. In order to bring them where they need to be with social justice, women’s rights, and gay rights, you’d have to meet them where they are with worker’s rights. They could earn $75,000 a year mining (and die early of black lung) but they can’t pay rent earning $8.75 at Family Dollar. Biden did support programs to retrain them and should not be criticized for ignoring Appalachian poverty. He didn’t ignore it. But the red state politicians know the workers there suffer from inflation disproportionately. A lot of red states have issues with homelessness, despair, and drug abuse, not to mention wealth inequality. Wealthy Republicans get away with blaming poverty on Democrats because they brand religion as something charitable and opposition to it as something evil, and they can get away with it in a culture like that. If you want to make it so they don’t get politically indoctrinated by the church, make it so they don’t need to rely on charity from the church.

Aside from what’s going on outside our country m,

It’s the economy, stupid! People are having a hard time with rent, groceries, and making ends meet. We have a generation that’s not going to have children, be able to buy a home, or have one dependable income job they can rely on and still have something left over to put in savings.

Trump is promising a chicken for every pot. (Eyeroll)

The immigration issue, trans agenda, and student loan forgiveness threw gasoline onto what was already a dumpster fire of an election. These are all issues that are sticking points with no clear solution from either party.

At least two generations have been indoctrinated. They will never see the truth, OP, even if you held their hand and showed the truth to them. The thousands of tantrum videos, the threats to kill people, the buzz cuts, the outrageous grandiosity are all evidence of people who have lost their grip on reality. They can't be saved.

Could you ever imagine adults in the past, up until approximately the year 2000 acting so blatantly, publicly and proudly like 10 year olds? I can't.

- Yuri Bezmenov

R10 It’s not.

From NYC to Massachusetts, the illegals and “asylum seekers” have disenfranchised the homeless, women who need shelter, and the low income neighborhoods where there’s a minority population.

Massachusetts dumping the migrants in Roxbury, the biggest black neighborhood in Boston, and you’re saying it’s construed as racism to further disenfranchise black neighborhoods? But according to white liberals, migrants will “flourish” these black communities with cheap labor and balance the economy.

This is ridiculous!

I guess the lesson you are talking about is:

Learn to lie and cheat like the republicans. Shamelessly mislead and use their supporters for their own personal gain. Create a propaganda machine to keep their followers in a delusional reality. Accumulate the kind of wealth that no one could ever spend in their (or any of their descendants) lifetime. And happily destroy the environment so that it becomes unlivable.

[quote] I gave $250 to Kamala and they spent 1M on Oprah and much more on other celebrities. I am pissed.

r21, Where is this information you're asserting here coming from?

Are there official, authentic Harris campaign screen shots of their Excel budget that show those expenditures?

The reason I'm curious is because you're the 2nd person besides a relative of mine who asked me about whether it's true that all of the A List celebrities (about whose presence throughout the Harris campaign I have my own ambivalent reaction to) were paid to endorse and for their presence.

I don't believe that, but I'm open to weighing that possibility it if there are some facts supporting it.

Otherwise, it's just more rumors spread by Trump voters who need to persuade themselves that they didn't just vote for the In-Coming Dictator, but that it's all the Democrats' fault.

Based on the comments I've seen on DL since election day, no one has learned much.

I'll take one issue (there are many) for now.

Democrats aren't trusted by a lot of minorities anymore. The DL instinct is to rant and rage at them and say they're stupid and should all be deported. (And that's some of the nicer stuff said!)

But the reality is that they just don't see the Democrats as speaking for them and I can explain why. It's not that hard. Democrats think they understand minority voters because they've been told a lot of shit by PhDs in areas that are, frankly, of questionable merit such as gender, black, latino, etc. studies.

Latinos do not think of themselves all as Latino. They certainly don't think of themselves as latinx or any other term popular in academia. They or their ancestors have come from a wide variety of countries. Just because they have darker skin and know Spanish doesn't make them all think of themselves as latinx fighting the oppressive white man. Those are the thoughts of the latina Ivy grad in latinx studies. Not of the 99% of other Latinos.

Regular blacks and latinos do not think of themselves as BIPOC. Another stupid term. This time coming from academics and activists on the Internet. Many of them white. Blacks do not see their struggle as identical to that of Latins, Asians, or any other group. Same for all these people. Ideas are being spoken for them that they do not actually relate to at all.

Now, you may say, ok, they may not like some of those terms and ideas, but surely that can't be enough to change a vote given the bigger picture?

The issue is that over time these things build up and that minority voter loses trust in the Democrats, especially when their financial situation is not improving, the Democrats are pushing stuff that is crazy to them (trans women in women's bathrooms), and other people are not talking like the usual politician (Trump). And what has been the Democratic response to this shift? Continued assumption that the minority vote is OWED to them because only they and they alone truly understand their plight and that any betrayal justifies lashing out with some of the most racist shit I've heard in some time.

That's just one issue.

Adding on to my r28, I'm glad some people are pointing out that Latinos are not all in support of letting every damn person in to this country. That's another assumption the Democrats have due to some academics telling them so. (It's competition for low paying jobs first of all. Plus the ones that did it the right way are offended by these mobs And there's also the issue mentioned previously about Latinos not seeing themselves as one unified unit. Illegals from one country are not the same as those from another.)

Since Tuesday Datalounge has turned against women, “liberals” and sung the praises of conservatives. We’re supposed to go even further right than MAGA in 2028. Become Maggie Thatcher with the mouth of Don Rickles Run the grand wizard and put him on Joe Rogan.’

If you people were Dems until Tuesday I’d write this off to a stage of grief.

But I’m not convinced that the reaction is coming from people who were here all along. It seems we’ve been flooded with new posters who have an agenda . I’ve had 2 suspensions since Tuesday. I see many of us OGs have too including the guy who starts the MSNBC threads.

[quote] Latinos do not think of themselves all as Latino. They certainly don't think of themselves as latinx or any other term popular in academia. They or their ancestors have come from a wide variety of countries. Just because they have darker skin and know Spanish doesn't make them all think of themselves as latinx fighting the oppressive white man. Those are the thoughts of the latina Ivy grad in latinx studies. Not of the 99% of other Latinos.

Latinos = Americans

r30, no one has suggested anything like going to the extreme right like MAGA. I don't know why you have had two suspensions, but really now.

To translate OP: The Democrats should hate everybody and lie to the electorate by promising them unworkable, unsustainable plans (or concepts of plans) that will benefit only the top 1% in the country.

Everybody sees what they want to see in the election results so “the lesson” does not exist.

My lesson? Incumbents don’t get re-elected after inflation.

That’s all.

No need to shift policies at all. Dems should stand for exactly what they stand for.

Wait two years, after Trump and the GOP overreach, and regain congressional power.

When do you ever see the GOP shift policies? Never, and here we are

[quote]And what has been the Democratic response to this shift? Continued assumption that the minority vote is OWED to them because only they and they alone truly understand their plight and that any betrayal justifies lashing out with some of the most racist shit I've heard in some time.

Period. r28 and r29 get it. Tuesday's results are a direct response to Democratic arrogance with regards to racial minorities.

Kendrick said it best, "Sometimes, you gotta pop out and show niggas."

Learn from your mistakes, regroup, and make flipping the script in 2026 midterms the goal. That's all you can do at this point.

The GOP of Trump is a completely different party than the party of Bush Jr,

Pelosi is clearly delusional and incapable of self reflection and the rest of the party is following suit.

[quote]The reason I'm curious is because you're the 2nd person besides a relative of mine who asked me about whether it's true that all of the A List celebrities (about whose presence throughout the Harris campaign I have my own ambivalent reaction to) were paid to endorse and for their presence.

Her campaign blew through over a billion dollars and remains nearly 20 million in debt according to Lindy Li.

"Another spending area likely to raise eyebrows is the $15 million the Harris campaign spent on event production, which went in part toward star-powered musical performances at rallies during the lead-up to the election, featuring the likes of Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, Christina Aguilera, and Ricky Martin."

"Harris paid $1 million to Harpo, a production company owned by Oprah Winfrey, who emerged as one of the vice president’s top celebrity allies, appearing at a town hall in September and the campaign’s final pre-election rally, in Philadelphia."

-The Daily Beast - Nov. 9 2024

AND she's still begging for money.

Here are some lessons that Democrats should learn from last Tuesday:

1) Shut off cable news.

2) Maybe it's time to stop being the adults in the room

3) You can't save everybody because most of them don't want to be saved

4) White women are going to always choose their own comfort

5) White liberals, most Latinos are not who you think they are

6) White liberals, black people are more politically savvy and not as monolithic as you think.

[Quote] You can't save everybody because most of them don't want to be saved

Love this. But one way we build coalitions is to fight for each other’s issues.

R18 they are not our saviors but they are our allies. I’m wait until gay rights are taken way and we get another pro8 etc. That is when your chinese ass will want white liberals and liberals in general to come out in large numbers in support.

Why empower our enemies instead of our allies? Our you going to do well with republicans? I doubt it.

I’m a white Cuban Latino. My parents live in freaking miami right next to allapatah and in her building for seniors above 65, if you find two blacks living there is too much. Why? Because the puerto rucan manager is a racist, and she does not want blacks living there.

My friend is renting an efficiency to a young woman that works for a pharmaceutical company in Miami. She said that she’s had gay guys applying to the job with outstanding experience and skill and if they are a little bit afeminate they do not get the job. She has seen hiring prejudice against gay men. My gay cousin’s friend is gay, recently came from Cuba. He began a temporary job in a flower warehouse, he only lasted two days. He knew it was because of the way he talks he just sensed that the supervisor did not like him.

Wait and see the horror that are about to be experienced by gays and blacks with maga, racist and religious nuts in power . Women will be find trust me.

Why why why? That is my question, why why why, how come, how is it possible that people actually put all of their well being on the hands of their very own enemies how do not want any good for you.

Chinito, this gay white Latino, might experience homophobia and mmmm? perhaps a little bit of xenophobia here and there, but racism, nope, nope. I can literally be sitting right next to nazis that they won’t even think I’m Latino. But those eyes!! Oh my god those eyes of yours, will make you such a nice target as if you were shouting from the top of lungs shoot me shoot me I’m here guys!!!

"When they go low, we go high ".

With attitude you're on a hiding to nowhere.

From Jack E Smith -

I, like many of you, have been contemplating our predicament since election night.

We are in a losing war for our democracy and I'm not sure we collectively know who our true adversary is.

It's not the voting blocks...white women, Latinos, Gen X. It's not MAGA. It's not even Trump.

It's an insidious power that has been hiding in the shadows for some time...and when the stakes were at their highest in this election, it fully revealed itself.

The American Oligarchy.

They control our Supreme Court, much of Congress, and the flow of information to the masses via legacy, mainstream and social media.

They decide the national conversation, how to keep us at each other's throats while they continue to amass wealth and power completely unchecked.

They put their thumbs on the scale of justice and poured billions into this election. They chose Trump because he was desperate and would capitulate to their demands. They chose a running mate to replace him in case he became too unhinged to control.

Consider how many disqualifying facts about Trump never saw the light of day...or didn't get the attention they deserved...or got drowned out by propaganda. They took a mentally spent buffoon and presented him as a hero to the masses.

Despite Biden successfully steering us out of a global recession and strengthening our economy, they maintained the national tone about the price of groceries being too high. Despite Trump's obvious mental decline, their media outlets remained reticent to press the issue.

We struggle to unite as a nation because they're too good at keeping us divided. We are drowning in disinformation because they control all of it.

They have successfully created imaginary villains for us to fight...each other.

It seems like we are a democracy careening towards fascism, when the reality is they're using the specter of fascism to keep us on edge while they turn America into a compliant oligarchy.

Whether you are a democrat, republican, independent or MAGA, we have a common foe.

Some of us just don't know it yet.

Give them time OP. It's only been a week since the election. and it's going to take time for them to stop pointing fingers, arguing with one another and blaming voters.

One suggestion: stop calling voters deplorables, racists, misogynists, Nazis . . .

R45 The author of that article is clueless.

I love this:

"Despite Biden successfully steering us out of a global recession and strengthening our economy, they maintained the national tone about the price of groceries being too high. Despite Trump's obvious mental decline, their media outlets remained reticent to press the issue."

Uh..."they maintained the national tone about the price of groceries being too high."?

Prices were/are too high. And people didn't need Trump to tell them that.

And "Despite Trump's obvious mental decline, their media outlets remained reticent to press the issue."

Same for Biden....the fucking PRESIDENT....and his mental decline.

[quote]That is when your chinese ass

I'm Black. And a woman.

[quote]I’m a white Cuban

We are not the same, sir.

And if you think we're a monolith, r43, you aren't an ally. We're not your political puppets and our votes (which are owed to no one red or blue), as you can see, do matter. Stop acting like you understand our concerns. You are no better. Because if you lash out at us when we don't do what you want us to do, congratulations, you're as bad as the White conservatives. The only difference is they're racism is more overt well, that was the case until Tuesday, now you're all losing your gotdamn minds. We see you. Trust.

White liberals are basically the "#niceguys" meme personified. All peaches and cream until they're rejected then WATCH OUT. Swear to god.

I mean, it hasn't even been a week yet and I've seen like 3 hard "Rs" dropped on DL already. And no let's not sit up here and act like those are "MAGAT invaders." No, those are WHITE LIBERALS who are mad and openly no longer giving a fuck.

[quote]Why shouldn't the grand children of legal migrants consider illegal immigration to be bad, when it directly impacts their employment prospects?

What the FUCK? Please read this back to yourself.

I once worked with an Italian woman (we were both college lecturers) and we went out for a drink one time and got talking politics. She was mid life, 50s, and told me her Italian mother in law was very right wing - to the right of Trump - because, when this woman was a child in the 1920s she and her siblings had no shoes, no money for shoes, and when Mussolini got into power he distributed shoes.

That's the basis on which many people decide their vote. Will the candidate put shoes on my feet, and food in my cupboard. That's the level of focus for millions of Americans, who are poor, working poor, just surviving. Look at the Trump rally attendees. Look at their clothes. Even in November many had no coat or padded vest, just a hoodie. Some just wore leggings, and a t shirt. The cheapest clothing you can get. And Trump was telling stories about how he heard a woman went to the counter either three apples and had to take one apple back because she could only afford two. Doesn't matter if that's a true story. Many in the crowd could relate to having to put some food items back on the shelf. If you don't have enough for a coat or weatherproof shoes or food you don't care much about Jennifer Lopez in Dior couture telling you how to vote.

Dr. Eddie Glaude, superbly, summed it up.

Running on how Trump is going to bring in fascism only to campaign with a woman who voted with Trump 93% of the time was asinine.

Then praising her father, who was responsible for the most destructive, heinous Republican administration until Trump came along, was equally ridiculous.

Her saying she wanted to put a Republican in her cabinet was the icing on the downturn. She was riding high until she went into overdrive trying to get votes from people who were never seriously considering voting for her. And depleting the goodwill she had among democrats and independents in the process.

You can't spend eight years complaining about how racist, misogynistic, homophobic and fascist Republicans are only to turn around and embrace them. Democrats STILL have not learned this lesson. I don't know who in her party thought that was a winning strategy, but they couldn't have been more wrong.

And I agree with the celebrity aspect. Having your big moment at the DNC obscured by rumors of a Taylor Swift/Beyonce appearance should have been a optimum moment of reflection and she should have pulled back from it, but she wound up going even further. Big mistake.

I don’t like Eddie Glaude but he’s absolutely correct.

I want the White, Vote Looter Criminal in charge. I’ll tell myself and everybody else it’s because of the economy. What I won’t admit to myself and out loud is no fucking way will I see a black woman as the POTUS.

[quote]Dr. Eddie Glaude, superbly, summed it up.

Man is he clueless and oh so arrogant.

[quote]What I won’t admit to myself and out loud is no fucking way will I see a black woman as the POTUS.

Bullshit.

Barack Hussein Obama, a black man, won the Presidency twice.

And all polling showed that Michelle Obama would have beat Trump easily.

AND the fact Trump outperformed expectations with all minority groups.

So, pray tell, r57, just what was so irresistible about Trump?

[Quote]no fucking way will I see a black woman as the POTUS

You're supposed to vote on their policies, not gicevthem a vote as a pat on the head for their racial identity or sex. Trump has appointed the first female White House Chief of Staff. Are you celebrating her appointment as a victory for gender equality? The very right-wing party in the UK has just appointed its fourth female leader. She's black, and very right-wing.

I have absolutely no confidence that the asshole commonly known as DeFucktardo, aka OP, will ever learn his lesson that he's not the political genius and strategist he seems to think he is.

Furthermore, I have absolutely no confidence that DeFuctardo, aka OP, is ever going to die in a grease fire.

Our "It's Defacto" troll has entered the chat.

Trump was "irresistible" because he doesn't make poor people and non-college educated people feel like shit on the bottom of some rich condescending liberal's shoe. And because he's funny, he makes the crowds laugh, makes them feel upbeat and proud.

Maybe the real lesson needs to be that we have to find a non-condescending way to persuade the uninformed.

A high school friend just posted what she called a peer reviewed study that showed that the Covid-19 vaccine increases strokes. It is actually not peer reviewed, and draws solely on VAERS data- which is raw, unverified reporting by anyone or any doctor to HHS. It doesn’t show correlation - if I OD’d and died of a heart attack after getting the vaccine, it might be reported as a heart attack after the vaccine. So the data is sketchy and who knows if anti-vaxxers are submitting.

This friend is bright. She used to live in SF and protested against Trump. Now she’s 100% in via RFK Jr.

I don’t have the amount of effort to gently persuade someone with calling her an idiot or a cultist. She would lash back and dig in deeper,

We face the same challenges. Yes, there is post-Covid inflation. Yes, the border is a problem. Trump makes it easy and simple and blames someone else.

Well, here we go again.

R27, it’s true that Kamala Harris’ campaign paid Oprah Winfrey $1 million. This payment was made to Winfrey’s production company, Harpo Productions, on October 15, 2024, following a town hall event she hosted for Harris in September.

Once Russia takes over both Democrats and Republicans will have learned their lesson.

You're wrong about Democrats "not serving their constituents", even the very dumbest should see that if they've bothered to look at the historic measures taken up by Democrats. The voters seem to think these things happen by themselves!

The unlearned lesson is the slavish devotion to massive vote losers like the attachment to Gaza/Muslim terrorists, and the toxic Trans Agenda. Both are rightly seen by average voters are nonsensical and poisoning the reputation of actual liberal progress.

Americans see government as a sort of rap video, or a poster you'd hang on your bedroom wall. They rhapsodize a mythical "badass" vibe while strangling their own economics and freedoms because they are just that brand of stupid.

Remember, the average American gets all of their political awareness from Facebook and TikTok, which are owned by mega billionaires or our foreign enemies/rivals. The results are predictable.

R48 you are not Chinese? You are black?? ufff, even worse.

of course we are not the same, the difference between you and me is that when white supremacists bring back black and white apartheid you gonna be sitting at the back of the bus honey.

A black woman and still supporting the agenda of white supremacist and in a gay site to boot. You should be ashamed of you.

[quote] you gonna be sitting at the back of the bus

r67 Yeah, we're not falling for the scare tactics anymore, babes. Either come correct with something substantial and stop embracing crazy mess like men in women's spaces, refusing to define what a woman is, chemically castrating and confusing kids, sending billions of dollars to other countries to fund endless wars, putting up illegals in fancy hotels and issuing prepaid cards to buy food, while our people stay struggling or keep losing elections. We're not with the bullshit, anymore. Make a decision.

Oh, and knock it off with using our racial identity to condescendingly put us down when we don't fall in line like how you want us to. That's not working anymore, either. Specifically with Black men. Truth hurts, I get it. But it is what it is. Calling Trump a fascist, felonious, dictator obviously didn't work, so look inward, fix the damn Democratic Party, and have this shit straightened out by 2026.

Don't know why that's not clickable, but here:

I have no concern all that Democrats [italic]have[/italic] learned their [italic]lessons[/italic] and my track record on these assessments is well known to you.

R68 who did you voted for? Kamala or Trump?

Note that mao, just like the Palestinian activists, is taking bold stances with the people who will feel guilt, not where it will make a real difference. How often did Trump have to answer activists?

Those who come from a place of powerless often like to attack their allies. Loading up the trains but never considering what happens when they get to the last car.

[quote]Those who come from a place of powerless often like to attack their allies.

r72 We're not powerless. I'm not powerless. And it was probably about the 2nd hard "R" dropped on this stupid site where I finally said, "fuck this shit" and decided to really go off on you people.

The comments here illustrate that the leftists are doubling down instead of looking at where they went wrong. The rest of the Democratic Party needs to speak up, confront them, and stop them from destroying our credibility.

r71 Not Trump, so calm down.

We are not the ones in power. We’re literally raging at the wind and waiting for the storm to pass. You attack the losers rather than siding with the winners. You expect them to be perfect, and expect zilch from the people who are driving this.

There is plenty of time for Democrats to soul search. We will change and probably won’t have to worry about pronouns or immigrants or micro aggressions again. Thing is - these were always distractions used for political purposes. Just like kicking people when they’re down.

Agreed, r76.

I’m spent, heartsick and dealing with being wrong.

Whatever VP Harris’s drawbacks were they were a quark next to the gargantuan drawbacks of Trump, especially after January 6th.

I was wrong to think Americans would reject Trump.

And now, I’m out, too. I don’t have the heart for it anymore.

What is the lesson they're supposed to learn. Everybody is just jockeying for their own interests. They made a pitch, a pitch that was their offer for how they were going to run things. Making sure their sponsors were going to be kept whole and then some. Actually this is not new humans are always deciding to usher in their own oprression. I see parallels to Brexit. It's not new it's just the same old with an updated context and message to fit the present. Americans did vote Regan and Nixon in too. Historically, rulers send the men to go die in a war, so in that context this, voting in the orange stain is really just the norm.

R76 as a democrat, I agree totally with you. Trump will do the dirty job that Democrats do not want to do.

[quote]We're not powerless. I'm not powerless. And it was probably about the 2nd hard "R" dropped on this stupid site where I finally said, "fuck this shit" and decided to really go off on you people.

Hey Teacake aka Mao you don't run this place. Fuck right off and smoke another rock.

Argue as you may here, but the bottom line is white anglo-saxon people will be the ones calling the shots and the discovery of this fact is lost on all "others". Oh there will be the upper echelon of tokens in Trumps crazy house cabinet, but all in all its white people that will be getting everyone else out, the ones that thought they were safe. Then the the real fun begins.

The only real hope over the next few elections for the Dems is that the country crashes and burns and things get really bad.

You know the exact same thing the enemies of America always hope will happen.

The gop are going to fix things so a dem win soon is going to be really difficult. There was only one truly bad outcome from this election that we may never be able to over turn—- a complete fucking sweep.

The SC is theirs for the rest of your life. We have God and goodness on our side they are just smarter tougher meaner and more determined.

Now watch all the dem infighting that’s going to happen.

There is no lesson to learn but one: Propaganda works and Americans collectively suck. I will do no soul searching nor should anyone else. We did all this bullshit 8 years ago. "White working class", too much LGBT, too much city talk, talk to salt of the earth, Cletus Safaris to the grease hold diners...

Fuck that bullshit. After 8 years of that nonsense, Harris runs a campaign designed to speak to the dignity of work and the decency of people in this country, and this country turned around and really revealed itself to the world as indecent.

To hell with soul searching. And Death to stupid little OPs like this one trolling around!!!!

Mao denies being teacake yet writes exactly like teacake.

[quote] The only real hope over the next few elections for the Dems is that the country crashes and burns and things get really bad.

Wow. Thank you for wishing us all the worst.

OP, judging from this astounding lack of common sense and most of the answers here, your vote of no confidence is completely justified. We're doomed.

Good luck, WeatherFairy, adapting to your apparently extended stay in the new order.

[quote]The only real hope over the next few elections for the Dems is that the country crashes and burns and things get really bad.

What a bizarre "hope" to have. So you hope for the worst so that you can be proven right and get back into power? This is not normal.

The OP's post seems to assume that the right have something to teach, and I do not think that's true. It's presumptuous.

Winning an election is not a validation of their beliefs.

I agree with the person above that mentioned Liz Cheney. It shows that some people somehow missed the entire anti-establishment feeling that's taken over America and most of the world right now. You couldn't have picked worse people to endorse Harris than Liz, Dick, and other Dubya folks. Really quite remarkable anyone thought it was a good idea to emphasize that support.

R85 dishonest as the day is long. I see you did not include my next statement. And for a good fucking reason.

I love it when the great political minds of DL get going. This was the same place, only a week, saying how she was going to flip Texas. And you all would say that her strategy was genius if she had won. She didn't. Stop the nonsense, and move the fuck on. We lost, and we won't lose forever. Go outside and play in the grass. Just stop this sitting shiva. It's been a week; no matter how much you rehash it, the outcome will remain the same. A bunch of Biden voters stayed home, and that's on no one else but them.

The next candidate must appeal to men, women, and POC, and young people. The only logical choice is a young Trans Woman of Color.

less than a week after their unexpected defeat, you're whining that they've not had an immediate volte-face? It's going to take some time for everyone to digest the loss, OP.

It was only a week ago when people were seriously posting that Texas and Florida would be winners for Harris. If you posted they were nuts, you were labeled a MAGA troll. Posters were also cancelling the NYT because they didn't predict a Harris blow out. Talk about living in a bubble.

Even with the bad polling in 2016, the aggregate polling in 2024 was far, far worse.

Nobody knows anything.

The only truly terrifying thing about Trump is that he is a walking national security risk. I guess we are going back to our undercover operatives being killed by our enemies at a much higher rate, but yeah, those eggs were so expensive in 2022!

A lesson from the UK

Labour under Jeremy Corbyn was a fucking horrible place. The online activists loved telling critics, life long Labour members and voters, to fuck off an join the Tories. And they did, and voted Tory. Labour had their worst election result in 2019.

And 4 months ago Labour doubled the number of parliamentary seats to win a landslide majority. The implosion of the Tories helped but this is how they did it:

1. They accepted the divisive Brexit result, i.e. the outcome of a referendum. This didn't please everyone but it was essential to rebuild bridges.

2. It made tremendous efforts to win back the working class vote by going out of their way to talk directly to them on things that mattered. Housing was discussed more than university tuition.

3. It realised the identify politics stuff wasn't popular away from a fringe movement so reversed the policies without admitting they had changed. That led to charges Labour were transphobic and were going to ban trans people from using toilets as one person told me but it worked. On race as well there didn't seem much "us and them". In areas with large muslim populations there was a sustained campaign against Labour and Islamist candidates won several seats. Bad for the country this was good for Labour as it distanced themselves from the extremist vote. Compare that to Nicola Sturgeon who was hanging outside mosques with SNP/Palestine flag leaflets - the SNP lost 80% of their seats.

4. The people who made Labour unpopular left or were kicked out of the party. Cutting Jeremy Corbyn and moving on was vital and people like Owen Jones, one of the most hated men in Britain, quit and used most of his Guardian articles to criticise Labour.

5. There were plenty of celebrity endorsements but Labour made more of a focus on endorsements from ordinary people. or those in particular roles - cancer patients, business leaders, environmental people. I think a video from Elton John introducing a speech was the most extravagant thing.

6. CRIME IS BAD. Don't make excuses for people. More police is good. The military is good.

7. There was optimism. Plenty of criticism of the Tories but VOTE FOR US BECAUSE THINGS CAN BE BETTER.

R96, that’s brilliant. It’s like a roadmap for Democrats.

[quote] And 4 months ago Labour doubled the number of parliamentary seats to win a landslide majority.

They did that, but got only 34% of the voters to vote for them. Because of the system in the UK, they could turn 34% support into a “landslide”.

If the Democrats were to get the same level of support in the U.S., with it’s two party system, there would be Republican supermajorities in D.C. and across the country.

How the Dems will win by following the Brit’s:

Accept what the GOP has done don’t fight it, be tough on crime, be pro police, and pro military., kick out the unpopular Dems, don’t do identify politics like the blacks, gays ,trans, Hispanic, stuff .

And get endorsements from people nobody knows

That does sound like a plan. I can feel my excitement for 2028 building already.

Although brilliant might be a touch too far :-)

[quote]Mao denies being teacake yet writes exactly like teacake.

He is unable to change his style of writing. You always know when it's him. If only the crack his mother smoked in the 80s had caused her to be infertile. Alas, it wasn't meant to be.

[quote]They did that, but got only 34% of the voters to vote for them. Because of the system in the UK, they could turn 34% support into a “landslide”. If the Democrats were to get the same level of support in the U.S., with it’s two party system, there would be Republican supermajorities in D.C. and across the country.

Labour won a landslide based on the voting system they were presented with. Their vote share increased marginally but was more effective as it wasn't centred in safe seats.

if the Democrats want to run a campaign that appeals to core voters in California and New York then that's just swell.

Or they can look at a nationwide campaign that clocks up the electoral college numbers so they can cross the line into the White House.

[quote]people like Owen Jones, one of the most hated men in Britain, quit and used most of his Guardian articles to criticise Labour.

That sniveling little virtue signaling twat should be ass raped by a gang of sweaty, swarthy Arabs.

[quote]Accept what the GOP has done don’t fight it, be tough on crime, be pro police, and pro military., kick out the unpopular Dems, don’t do identify politics like the blacks, gays ,trans, Hispanic, stuff .

A lot of voters like low crime levels and think the police do a hard job and need support. Kicking out Ilhan "Some people did something" Omar might lose some voters but would broaden the appeal to swing voters. And appealing to voters AS A WHOLE and rather speaking to different sections helps bring about a sense of unity over division.

[quote]And get endorsements from people nobody knows

I get why Beyonce wanted to speak at a Texas rally, but maybe if you want to appeal to a wider base get someone well known in Texas who did something remarkable like setting up a successful company or invented something or did something heroic? Maybe a firefighter who saved someone from a burning building and got lung cancer and was treated with Obamacare? That kind of story.

[quote] Labour won a landslide based on the voting system they were presented with.

They were able to get only 34% of the UK voters to vote for them. 66% voted for a different party. In the U.S., having 66% of the country voting against you would be a huge defeat. The Democrats can’t temporarily borrow the UK system.

R103 oh I realize a lot of voters support that sort of thing. And I am one of them.

I come from a family of military, firefighters, police. But give me a break this is not the Democratic Party not close. And there is no Democratic Party without identify politics, The party can’t function without minority and female support and gays

The Dems are not becoming the moderate party. They likely will go farther left. That is where the energy and the anger will be..

If the country flounders big time the Dems have a chance in 4 years, That is their only reasonable chance. If the country does reasonably well , at least as well as it has under Joe——the Dems will have no fucking chance no matter what they do.

[quote]They were able to get only 34% of the UK voters to vote for them. 66% voted for a different party. In the U.S., having 66% of the country voting against you would be a huge defeat. The Democrats can’t temporarily borrow the UK system.

YOU'RE NOT LISTENING SWEETHEART.

Labour broadened its appeal and ran an effective campaign that spread its votes around the country rather than clocking them up in Labour strongholds.

They looked at the voting system and planned around it.

If the Democrats want to carry on talking to California and New York voters then that's great, but broaden the message to the swing states and beyond. That might reduce the vote share in CA and NY as they lose some left wing voters to a protest candidate but if they still win CA and NY and take Pennsylvania then that's a success.

In the UK you don't have Jesus and God telling millions of people how to live their lives. That's a huge problem in the US.

R106, having a message that gets the support of only 34% of the electorate is a winning strategy in the UK. However, in the U.S., it would be a huge defeat.

Well there's nowt as blind as folk who won't see R108.

Enjoy life under Trump xx

Congressman Seth Moulton is courageous in showing that lessons can be learned. This may be the start of reforming Democrats’ position on biological men in women’s sport. Tom Suozzi of New York is also speaking out.

[quote] “We as Democrats are more concerned about offending people and just getting all our words right than actually having legitimate, serious debates about issues that matter,” Moulton said. “And I hate to say it, but if you look at exit polls ... the number-one issue for swing voters who chose Trump was actually the feeling that Kamala [Harris] was more concerned about trans issues than the middle class. So we ignore this at our peril.

[quote] “If we can’t come up with a position that the majority of Americans can buy into and agree with — a reasonable, rational position — then guess who’s going to win this debate?” Moulton added. “It’s going to be the Republicans, with their radical agenda that absolutely will take away rights from minorities all across the country. Civil rights and access to health care for trans people. Maybe the right to marry for gays — something that the majority of Americans agree with, but that the Republicans have made clear they want to take away.

[quote] “There are a lot of rights that are going to be imperiled here, if we don’t have a more cogent response. And we can’t have a reasonable position if we’re not even allowed to discuss it.”

Arrogant . Gotta be white and have a decent stock portfolio.

R110 Reforming?

There will be no sports issue soon in a few months at most this will be all settled. It won’t matter a damn what Dems think about it then.

MAGA if they accomplish nothing else will take care of this one.

[quote] There will be no sports issue soon in a few months at most this will be all settled.

That would certainly be enormously beneficial for the Democrats to have the Republicans take care of the issue for them, but it would have been good for the Democratic Party to show that it could reform itself by changing its position.

[quote]That would certainly be enormously beneficial for the Democrats to have the Republicans take care of the issue for them, but it would have been good for the Democratic Party to show that it could reform itself by changing its position.

Except Ilhan Omar, AOC, Pramila Jayapal will fight it as hard as they can.

Regarding the T issue... there is a biological difference between what these men want to be and what they actually are and that is a physical limitation that exists in reality. Because of that, there are of those of us, me included, who will never accept that trans women are actually women anymore than we will accept that the king is made of glass. And it's terribly unfair to women to have them in women's sports.

But OK, you object, there aren't that many of these people out there, so why does it matter? Because it's being DEMANDED to accept this idea. To state pronouns to make them feel better, to pretend that there is no difference, to be cool with this denial of objective reality. This is not just a matter of leaving them alone. Of course no one should be harassed for what is in their head or how they dress. No issue with that. It's the fact that it is being demanded of us to accept that which is just not so or else we are considered hateful bigots. All of it feels very 1984-ish given the reality of the situation. It's not a moral issue. It's about biology and denial of reality.

If the Dems wanted to place a man in a dress in a high admin position they needed to find men that did not look like a man wearing a women’s dress and calling himself a she.

They should have gone up the road to Delaware. The new trans state rep is actually a cutie. And she comes across not as a man wearing a women’s dress.

Optics do count

It’s too late now we are fucked boom boom long time as they said in icorps back in the day,

The Dems only lesson is to wait two years and then another two. The GOP will destroy itself.

Why do we never ask the GOP to “learn” any lesson?

Well, yes we just got knocked back to 2016, losing a little more ground in the process. But Trump’s first term ended with the economy in shambles, a public health crisis, his supporters smearing feces in the Capitol, and a ballooned debt and deficit. As always with Trump, they fall for the show until it finally leaves them broke.

Right now, the long term bond market is not on board with Trump’s proposed spending and tariffs. These are set by the market, not Jerome Powell. Because of this, and despite a lower Fed rate, mortgage rates just went UP.

Which means Gen Z can keep sleeping in their Gen X parents basements. Maybe they can blame it on the trans or the migrants They certainly will never blame it on Elon or Trump.

[quote] The Dems are not becoming the moderate party. They likely will go farther left. That is where the energy and the anger will be..

And we can now see where that will get them.

R103, that's probably living the dream.

[Quote] And all polling showed that Michelle Obama would have beat Trump easily.

R57 Bullshit! Polls mean nothing!

Michelle could have run with Kamala as VP and then Michelle could have resigned because she didn't want it anyway and then Kamala could have been President and then she could have appointed Gavin Newsom her new VP and Pete would Secretary of State/Chief of Staff and tonight's guest.

Did I forget anything?

Michelle Obama would've won against Trump, but she obviously doesn't want to get into politics and I can't blame her.

Michelle Obama is living her best life in Martha's Vineyard and the Hamptons with lots of parties and celebrity friends and I can't blame her one bit.

[Quote] The Dems are not becoming the moderate party. They likely will go farther left. That is where the energy and the anger will be..

and their popularity will go further south!

I admire Michelle Obama but I do not think it's a given she would have gotten more votes than Trump.

I agree with R127, she would have been a big motivator for black people and the coasts, but by the end of the campaign, I'm not sure she would have done any better than the Vice President in the PA and WI.

People seem to love her now, but I remember the way some democrats were treating her back in 2007/8.

Michelle's speech, speaking about her mother, at the DNC: "She and my father didn’t aspire to be wealthy—in fact, they were suspicious of folks who took more than they needed."

What a phony.

We are^ MAGAT Central these days.

Democrats should consider running Ben Affleck to win over the bro vote.

R130 = idiot.

Stop dreaming, Michelle Obama would not have won against Trump. It wasn't Kamala that lost us the elections, it's the perception of the general direction the country is going. No Democrat would have won this election. Accept it.

R83 Propaganda doesn’t always work though because the left has labeled Trump and his supporters as all racists, misogynists, bigots, homophobes, monsters, and evil villains who are going to all going to throw all minority groups into concentration camps and turn the US into a white version of Afghanistan and a little bit of Nazi Germany.

They’ve been saying that for almost 10 years.

Those insults have lost their meaning because they're hurled at anyone all the time. Right here, all you have to do is say something that doesn't completely align with Far Left thinking and you get called those things. It's meaningless and nobody gives a shit anymore.

Me neither, OP. Democrats don’t ever learn, they simply instruct.

^^Sinply instructing

Oh, I agree...the centrist Dems will continue to control the party and complete its descent into the ground.

I think they continue to hope that "sensible" Republicans will come to their way of thinking.

They'll continue to ignore the working class and leftist voters while courting the college educated, urban elites who don't win elections

Progressives don't win because the progressives we get are mostly damaged goods. (Dennis Kucinich, Cynthia McKinney, etc etc)

I expect the Make Progressives Great Again people will control the Democratic Party.

The 99 Cent Store is now $1.25

Outrageous! It's the economy, stupid.

No, they have not. One visit to that site of delusion, Democratic Underground, boggles the mind.

[quote] I kind of agree, but that's mostly because the majority of anti immigration rhetoric does have at least a whiff of prejudice at its heart. Much of it can be boiled down to: "you're not like me, you don't belong here like I do".

It is prejudice, perhaps even racism. Black Americans are multi-generational Americans. Many can trace their American lineage back to the 18th century. But we're still being told to "go back to Africa" by the descendants of 20th century immigrants. The impression that this is a White European nation is the basis of anti-immigration sentiment. No one tells Elon Musk to go back to Africa.

This thread caption assumes there is a lesson for Democrats to learn. There is not. You can lead a horse to water...

Trump could and did say anything, regardless of truth or falsity, to frighten, cajole, embolden and galvanize his cult of personality. Whereas Democrats are held to exacting standards of truth, the ridiculously hypocritical reaction to Walz's military service record is just one example. Americans are like a battered spouse too afraid to leave their abuser.

“From our tower, as we see it. Salad for the masses. A salad of hope, of change, and of complete and utter bullshit. Watch us be doormats! Let us lead for way beyond our expected tenure to manipulate the system to provide us life long work because all we know is toiling in BS.”

[quote] It’s the economy, stupid!

Hardly. Social issues is what people were voting upon and this includes illegals and crime. The economy is doing great. Inflation is the problem. However, Trump has no policy except tariffs which will make things even worse and Elon said to expect financial hardships during Trump’s term. What’s coming out now is that Americans are fed up with the woke crap. The anti-trans sealed Kamala’s fate. She’s for the They/Them and wants Americans to pay for sex changes for criminals and illegals.

R132=Retarded racist MAGAT with micro peen.

The threat about males in women's sports thread got deleted like all the others about sex/gender clashes.

Meanwhile John Oliver has restated his support for males in female sports. For a lot of men who think they are progressive this is a fight they are not going to let the Democrats walk way from.

How do I get involved in the Democratic Party to help bring about change?

R131 the Dems should consider running the future Mr Taylor Swift a real man not someone who,plays a real man in the movies.

Don’t laugh it’s a better idea than Mrs Obama or Harris

Just look at the RAGE! People might get $10,000! Meanwhile, billions are stolen by the Elon Musks of the world (also an imiigrant) and used to d eceive the public, and that is perfectly all right with this people.

R151 that rage has been building since the summer and fall of 1981. It’s not about any $10,000.

The model for Republicans has been the same for 50 years. You have ten people - 2 rich, 8 middle class and poor. The job of the 2 rich is to fleece the 8 while convincing 6 that the other 2 are to blame. Time and time again.

It's a mass psychosdid, not any different from witch burning.

[quote] The economy is doing great. Inflation is the problem. However, Trump has no policy except tariffs which will make things even worse and Elon said to expect financial hardships during Trump’s term.

If people were voting on the economy, they weren’t voting based on future policy. They were voting for the candidate who agreed with them that the economy was bad and accumulated inflation is still terrible, and against the candidate who said that the economy is good and inflation is under control. Also, people wanted to punish the administration under which they have suffered so much with the horrible inflation.

Look, the number of Americans who voted for that buffoon rose among all ethnic, religious, and economic groups with the notable exception of Black women. I stand with those women.

We all know that Kamala Harris was the better qualified and sane choice, however she was tied to an unpopular president, and the voters blamed his Administration for the economy (risen rent, grocery and gas prices, and the cost of living) and immigration. The Democrats would have lost no matter who was the pick.

Bernie Sanders is right. The Democrats are no longer the party of working people. It needs to project an alternative vision to that of this filth coming into office in January that addresses the problems of an economy that has shifted since the Cold War and 9/11 where the older solutions no longer work. The Democrats also must stand for the vulnerable who include undocumented, hardworking migrants (while still guaranteeing secure borders and strict immigration laws), racial, ethnic, gender, and sexual minorities.

We're past the point of being shocked by what comes out of this buffoon's mouth. Fight back against what he and his ilk do. Find and articulate an alternative vision.

THey haven't suffered "so much" and Trumpp never had a single proposal to lower inflation, only to raise it. His reckless spending also boosted the national debt, which led to higher interest rates, which leads to choking off consumer credit. Anyway, grocerry prices have been rising steadily for thirrty years except for junk food. The only real difference between this inflation and what has gone before is that it affected junk food (white bread, eggs, doritos)

Agree with R155. This loss was pure backlash. An unhappy electorate delivering a message. If more was at stake (and obviously it was) they either couldn't be convinced of it or were so angry they didn't care. It is infuriating, but real. If a Republican had been President, same thing. You know that old line attributed (wrongly apparently) to Churchill: America will always do the right thing, after it's tried everything else. Here we are.

It doesn't mean the Democrats can't do some thinking about the future. Right now, it seems to me Republicans are the factory setting at the national level. Maybe the (proven in the polls) disapproval of how Congress functions is so set the thinking it vote for the Republicans, they'll do nothing and cost less (which isn't true, but the perception is real.) Once - look at this chart - Democrats by and large dominated the presidency, the House and the Senate for sixty years between 1933 and 1993. Before that, Republicans did for thirty years between 1901 and 1931. Since '93, it see saws back and forth but looking at it, Republicans have held the majority in the House or Senate and held the presidency 23 times since 1993 (up to but not including this past week), while Democrats have held one or more of the three 15 times.

[quote]Congressman Seth Moulton is courageous in showing that lessons can be learned.

The learning doesn't extend to college campuses, apparently:

As Democrats try to distance themselves from the insane gender ideology that has been enforced on their parties, there will be a lot of pressure put on them by captured organisations like the university above but also the likes of John Oliver mentioned up the thread who will never admit they were wrong about boys in girls sports.

If the Democrats are savvy they'll sever support for that as soon as possible they can focus on other things going into the 2026 elections.

Actually, we should hope Trump quickly blunders with inflation/the economy. If he fucks that up quickly, Dems will definitely take back the House in 26 and maybe the Senate.

Of course, if that happens, the government will grind to a standstill.

[quote] As Democrats try to distance themselves from the insane gender ideology that has been enforced on their parties, there will be a lot of pressure put on them by captured organisations like the university above but also the likes of John Oliver mentioned up the thread who will never admit they were wrong about boys in girls sports.

I guess even Russian trolls are paying their $1.50

Dems don't need to change a thing. The minute they give an inch, the GOP will blame the Dems when it all goes wrong ("Hillary was against gay marriage!).

Stay the course. Wait two years. Do not change anything about policy.

Trump got the same vote he got in 2020. 15 million people, mainly Dems, didn't show up this time like they did in 2020.

People don't show up unless they feel threatened. Obviously, everything feels fine for them now.

When tariffs make prices rise and the economy falters, they will feel threatened and come out to vote again.

[quote] Actually, we should hope Trump quickly blunders with inflation/the economy.

He probably knows though that he would be able to make up for that by delivering on his promise to crack down severely on illegal immigration. He’s likely to focus on immigration as the easier win.

Economy/inflation trumps (no pun intended!) everything. People freak out about money more than anything.

If they really go the tariff route, (which I'm mostly thinking WON'T happen...it's just so stupid) once coffee, chocolate, tea and fruit/veg double in price, the shit will hit the fan.

Of course, kicking out the illegals is going to make fruit/veg scarce and pricey so that's definitely in the future.

Certainly part of "the problem" is that the "Lesson" which Dems must learn is pointed out on threads like this - so many lessons, so many lessons contradicting each other.

Fuck all of that. Dems must and will go forward. MAGA doesn't reflect and lick its wounds and point out the inherent contradictions in what Trump says and what MAGA believes. MAGA "presents" in the new digital forms and delivery with performative "strength and authenticity"... MAGA doesn't lick its wounds and self-lacerate and attack teammates like is happening in social media like this thread.

MAGA lucked out with world-wide inflation - 2% in the popular vote, 250,000 voters in the Blue Wall. What if Dems would have lost by much, much more if they'd done some things listed on this thread.

Grow some cojones, Dems. Forward, not back.

What planet do you live on? MAGA pouted a lot in 20 and 22 and they're ALWAYS going after each other.

[quote]I guess even Russian trolls are paying their $1.50

If you really think a political party is going to do well pandering to gender extremists who think humans can change sex, men need abortions, women need prostate cancer checks, males should compete in female sports AND walk around naked in female locker rooms, that male rapists should be housed in women’s prisons and 4 year olds can choose a different ‘gender’ when they can’t write their own name or feed themselves, then good luck under successive right wing governments.

[quote]I guess even Russian trolls are paying their $1.50

Seriously, just go fuck yourself

^^ R169 somebody's got an obsession, maybe even a fetish.

R171 your diaper and tampon probably needs changing which explains why you are so irritable but in a thread about the Democrats making themselves electable it really is appropriate to bring up the weird stuff that most ordinary people find batshit.

[quote]MAGA lucked out with world-wide inflation - 2% in the popular vote, 250,000 voters in the Blue Wall. What if Dems would have lost by much, much more if they'd done some things listed on this thread.

This^^. Harris only lost the popular by 2.2%. That's not a giant loss by any usual measure, it only means a lot in this cycle due to who her opponent was. Her loss margins in the Blue Wall were also similarly small, and well within the margin of error in the polls. This wasn't a "giant blowout" by these standards. Dems knew they weren't winning the Senate, and hopefully will be within reach of the House majority when the final count is in.

The Dems aren't that far behind, there were errors that are correctable. A full on re-set isn't necessary here. Tweaking, and better tea-leaf reading (aka, read the public mood and react accordingly).

[quote] Meanwhile, billions are stolen by the Elon Musks of the world (also an imiigrant) and used to d eceive the public, and that is perfectly all right with this people.

What is it that Elon Musk is stealing, pray tell?

r173, people voted for a piece of shit rather than a Democrat. We need a full on re-set a la Bill Clinton or Barack Obama.

[quote] Her loss margins in the Blue Wall were also similarly small, and well within the margin of error in the polls. This wasn't a "giant blowout" by these standards.

That’s why they’re called battleground states. If there was a blowout, they wouldn’t be battleground states.

We don't need another Clinton.

We lost every battle ground state this year.

It wasn't close, either. No state went to a recount in the presidential race, Trump increased his margins across the board and millions of Dems stayed home.

So where's the win?

I feel like how I imagine the engineers of the Death Star probably felt when they, no doubt, kept sounding the alarm to Darth Vader about that weird vulnerability in the ship that would cause the whole thing to explode if hit but ended up just getting force choked whenever they'd bring it up.

POV: You're the DNC chair right now...

A FTM turned down R172 once. He never got over it. Still bitter that a shemale rejected him.

[quote]If there was a blowout, they wouldn’t be battleground states.

Truly I don't understand your point here. 2% loss... nationwide. You are agreeing that the characterization of the loss as "a blowout" is in error?

R172 Hon, it isn't that the topic was raised... Repubs spending $140 mil on the anti-trans ad with the dragqueens is significant just by the size of the ad buy and the focus group research that they did on it. The point is the intensity and form of your comment - i.e. you agree that trans folk are disgusting and evil and wanna beat the shit out of your children in bathrooms and athletic field. Eh?

No more fucking “centrists.” No one actually votes for centrists. They vote on fear

They vote in anger.

[quote] The point is the intensity and form of your comment - i.e. you agree that trans folk are disgusting and evil and wanna beat the shit out of your children in bathrooms and athletic field. Eh?

It’s ok to admit you were wrong in supporting males in female sports. It’s okay. It’s okay to say ‘i was wrong about giving children hormone treatment to stunt their growth’. It’s okay to say ‘actually women should have their own spaces which men can’t just barge their way in to’.

And it’s okay to say lesbians aren’t men in pink and gay men aren’t transphobic because they don’t want to put their dick into a ‘bonus hole’.

It’s okay to drop these quasi religious policies that most normal people hate. It’s okay. They people affected will cope.

^^ "quasi religious" ?? Ok, the internet, the death of reason, and no purpose in engaging. Ok, then.

But all will be well, and all will be well, and every kind of thing will be well.

The only lessons Dems need to learn is that creating fear makes people come out to vote. The fear can be made up or real (like a failing economy) but only fear will put fire under people.

I'm not sure that's as true as you think. Harris did a lot of fear creating and it didn't move the needle. And she wasn't making it up. We're about to enter a period that cannot be underestimated in its potential to do lasting harm all over the world.

If she couldn't beat this guy there was no coming back from the national mood in this one.

[quote] I'm not sure that's as true as you think. Harris did a lot of fear creating and it didn't move the needle.

She said Trump will be a fascist. America hasn't experienced a fascist that fell flat.

She said that Trump will pass an abortion ban. Trump claimed he wouldn't. His denial was enough for them.

She didn't say much else that would scare people. Hordes of Trans people coming take your children is apparently something to fear, just like the thought of gay marriage was

[quote] The anti-trans sealed Kamala’s fate. She’s for the They/Them and wants Americans to pay for sex changes for criminals and illegals.

Well, I guess the joke is on MAGA. Trannies can always get sex work. The rest of America will starve.

Should they be passing out food, OP? Sending $1,200/mo.? Free childcare?

Biden erased their student loans and got no thanks.

biden supported unions and helped expand coverage for overtime. but apparently the electorate, such that it is, didn't like that.

[quote]She didn't say much else that would scare people. Hordes of Trans people coming take your children is apparently something to fear, just like the thought of gay marriage was

pox on them. they voted for a hateful ignorant man. if I haven't learned my lesson at 55, then so be it

The Dems shouldn't make any change in their stances. Don't give an inch.

Wait for the house to burn down and then get elected in to rebuild it. The midterms will be brutal to the GOP and then we'll have threads like "I have no confidence the GOP hasn't learned its lesson."

What's old may be new again... Axelrod pushes for Rahm Emanuel as DNC chair

Well, Rahm knows how to raise money, that's a given. And they will need it.

He's also tough and skilled, going back to his days with the early Bill Clinton campaign way back in 1992...then again, he's been around since 1992 and isn't exactly the kind of fresh blood the party might need right now.

The Dems will be split on whether to go with fresh faces or go back to skilled, experience operatives. Not sure which would work best.

I'm good with Rahm for now. Like I'm good with Newsom being a face out front. We need some old-school thugs to be up to bat ... for a while anyway. "Events" (like US troops attacking US Citizens) might suggest other leads. If things are more normal, and the Dems come up to the mid-term with a plan, then other faces might well be in front.

This is shit. Cartoonish. But the Dems have to move forward... and soon.

Me too

“ For all of the "millions" of young people who hate Israel there are millions of other young voters who know that there is a war going on and are disgusted by the videos of people ripping down posters of kidnapped Americans and kidnapped babies.“

The crowd who cares about such babies, who BY THE WAY are still alive for the most part, unlike the children of Gaza, vote Republican anyways.

It’s important to know your target audience, and generation Z does make a huge difference.

Kamala received almost 5 million votes less than Biden.

Kamala will move us forward. Newsom, privileged Getty heir, will not.

[quote] Kamala received almost 5 million votes less than Biden.

Biden 2024 would have underperformed Biden 2020 by a greater margin. Kamala Harris was our best chance in 2024 -- she came as close to victory as any Democrat could have in 2024. There will be much second-guessing over the next 2-3 years. If Democrats try to pin this defeat on a candidate (other than Joe Biden) instead of the message and method we will lose again.

Reading what I do on here, democrats have bought the GOP lies, hook line and sinker

My point is R201, she did because of the Palestinian war.

Biden would have also lost, for the same reason.

Well there are Dems on tv now pointing out how bad trump and trumps nominations are. That should help right the ship for 2928.

The gop on the other hand won’t give a shit because they are gearing up for recess appointments.

Winners claim the spoils the losers bitch and moan. As has always been the case

[quote]Well there are Dems on tv now pointing out how bad trump and trumps nominations are. That should help right the ship for 2928.

Aren't you the optimist.

Yes and some mistakes end up being the correct choice. It’s possible those alive today who post on DL will never live to see a dem potus.

The game is changing, the rules will be changed, the Dems will be long time fucked because they will have little voice in the rules or who keeps score. And this time the gop will control the military. And the Congress. They will not be leaving the WH.

F. U. C. K. E. D.

There’s one thing I'm sure of. Harris WILL NOT be running for President in 2028.

And if Gavin Newsom is the candidate get ready for another Republican president in 2028.

Jon Stewart will beat Vance in 2028. You heard it here first.

I have plenty of confidence that DeFuctardo is the OP.

His overpowering stench is all over it and all throughout it.

Did Gavin Newsom peak too early?

r210 do you check for this Defacto boogeyman under your bed before you go to sleep every night?

No need to. I know he's shacked up with your momma.

[quote] Winners claim the spoils the losers bitch and moan. As has always been the case

Not always and not this time. Trump bitched and moaned for 4 years about a stolen election -- lie after treasonous lie -- it did not seem to hurt him. It is not normal. However, I agree that if Democrats go into atomic grievance mode for the next four years we will lose.

R214 and now many Dems are complaining about a stolen election. And in 2028 whoever loses will be claiming it was stolen, As far as stolen elections we have crossed the rubicon on that and we are not crossing back.

The presidential elections wree definitely stolen in 2000 and 2004 and no reasonable person believes otherwise.

Well we can add jfk to the stolen election list. Thanks Chicago .

I guess the last legal election must have been Ike? Unless DL knows how that one was stolen as well.

Dems won't learn their lesson because both sides are on the same side, it's a class war. The rich want to stay in power at all costs and the working poor are the ones who are given distraction after distraction to make us think we have a chance to make something of ourselves.

Corporate dems will ALWAYS kiss the boot of whoever can protect their interests. I have no faith in them to do the right thing when they want the status quo to remain what it is. When Bernie suggested taxing millionaires, Obama was making midnight phone calls to get people like Jim Clyburn to endorse Biden during primaries when he was failing to secure delegates. They do things to manipulate an outcome and get us all riled up to fight other working class people so we don't focus on the true enemy, the class caste system.

It has only been a few weeks since the election. Dems have to, and I believe they will, review, regroup and will get it together. A long road ahead, but we can't give up. That's what the opponent is doing: wearing us down. I'm as discouraged as anyone, but will do what I can to stay focused and move forward from this setback (which is major).

R206, Again, Dems in Washington don't care about that, they break bread with these people every day. Their personal income will remain unchanged and even thrive under Trump because they'll pay less taxes while the rest of us working class will pay the price. They live in a bubble compared to us. It's why identity politics isn't working, it's political theater. If you get a man or a woman or disabled or trans or any of that in public office and they do NOTHING different but the Dems keep pushing that importance on people, it shows how out of touch they are with the needs of the vast majority of this country.

R219 I am curious as to specifically what you will be doing as you move forward to turn this ass kicking we got around?

I plan to wait for the gop to fuck things up. And if they don’t we are not going to win anything next time,

R219 is the stupid cunt that went running around saying we got this y'all, no we didn't, STFU r219, you are batshit crazy, get help, you sound like fucking idiot ?Sunny rich bitch Hostn¿, out of touch and in your fucking bubble.

Some major right-wing trollery going on right here.

I'm coming to the conviction that the Dems should step aside and let the destruction begin. Give the fools who voted Republican what they wanted. The Republicans will destroy the ACA, their round up of undocumented migrants will wreck the economy, as will tariffs. Tax breaks for billionaires will not address the woes of the lower middle and working classes. They'll vote for the Dems in two years' and four years' time.

How come people who were so sure biden was going to be the nom or Harris would win the election are now all of a sudden smart and will now tell us once again what will happen in the future?

[quote]Some major right-wing trollery going on right here.

No, it's just shit you don't want to hear. Go back to telling everyone how Gavin Newsom is a great candidate for president.

Nobody knows what the fuck is going to happen, you prisspot Chicken Littles.

I don’t think he is R226, BUT…

01 - KAMALA ISN’T HIM. 02 - THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY CANNOT BE TURNED INTO UNHINGED DEPLORABLE CENTRAL, IT CAN’T SUCCUMB TO RIGHTWING DEMANDS BECAUSE THAT’S NOT WHAT WE WANT

03 - The Democrats can’t keep endlessly pandering to nasty “independents” who feel so outraged to hear republicans getting called garbage, but who don’t say a single thing when republicans are out there calling Puerto Ricans garbage, or calling Mexicans rapists, or calling gays and lesbians groomers. These kinds of “independents” who have mostly voted conservative can go fuck themselves.

Both Kamala and Newsom were MUCH BETTER OPTIONS THAN DUMP or any other Republicans.

After what Trump did in 2021 and after becoming a convicted felon and even after going through an impeachment process in 2020 there’s absolutely NO JUSTIFIABLE REASON to vote for him, or worse, turn him into the president of the USA again. It’s a crazy act.

The Democratic party must stay loyal to its voters and its values of decency instead of trying to appease shameless racists.

^tl;dr

Trump should've just won in 2020 so we'd be done with him right now. Instead we have four years of fuckery coming to us.

R228 does not realize that the election is over the trump won again.

This is the only election Felonious Fatty has ever won (49.9% right now). The EC is not an election. He also lost the Reform Party nomination to Pat Buchanan in 2000. He is a loser.

The only lessons Dems need to learn is (1) scare the bejesus out of people--making it about kids is always effective; (2) talk directly about getting people affordable housing, groceries, healthcare, and childcare.

R233 It's medium not message... I think that's the lesson to be learned. Your #2 was Harris's pitch... relentlessly... staying on message no matter what.

But she sounded like a "politician".... that not only no longer works, it LOSES voters. People in this part of the 21st century want big personalities, speaking like a "regular" person, not a politician. TV hosts, podcasters, speaking "authentically"... I mean lying is fine and even expected., but the tone, presentation, affect have to be "authentic"... it's a different kind communication. I can't think of a big name Dem who has it... Newsom to a degree, Fetterman. It's why I think Jon Stewart would be a good candidate in 2028.

We're not going back... to politics as usual. Trump broke America (or America was already broken and Trump came to cash in).

This thread is so out of touch and has no clue what it's like to live around these Trumplicans. I'm sorry that your MSNBC corporate shill sellout pollsters failed once again. Anyone who knows the Trump base knew they were purposefully hiding their true votes until the time came so that their orange god didn't get sabotaged "again". Lemmings.

[quote]People in this part of the 21st century want big personalities, speaking like a "regular" person, not a politician. TV hosts, podcasters, speaking "authentically"... I mean lying is fine and even expected., but the tone, presentation, affect have to be "authentic"... it's a different kind communication. I can't think of a big name Dem who has it.

Bernie Sanders, AOC, Fettermen

Only problem is none of them are electable for the Presidency

R231 does not realize that the USA is full of racists, xenophobes and homophobes.

And the Democratic party is NOT the place for them.

What you were trying to imply is that people wouldn’t have voted for Trump if only the democratic party had been a little bit more racist, a little bit more homophobic….

BUT if people are willing to elect a convicted felon who sounds like a Russian asset, then they were not willing to vote blue at all.

If anything the Democrats lost a few million votes because of what’s happening in Palestine.

Netanyahu was able to screw the democrats.

A Trumptard calling anyone else a Lemming is laughable. Lololololol

Bill Clinton claims the Dems did not listen. He said they should have listened, He told the Harris campaign the trans issue was going to back fire on them. And they ignored him. They left the issue to the GOP

So now we find that we won’t listen in the future if we disagree with those telling us shit because they are obviously racists, bigots, and homophobes.

We only want the pure. Not like a major party trying to win but like a small religious sect whose goal is not winning but being correct and pure of thought,

The bad people should all go vote for someone else. We don’t need the votes.

‘The trans thing’ includes

Insisting humans can change sex

That biological sex is a spectrum

That males have no competitive advantage over women in sports

That any male who identifies as a woman should be treated as a woman legally and socially and access all women’s spaces

That homosexuality is a genital preference

There’s no need to abandon trans people completely but there is a middle ground in the issue. There is an opinion column in the NYT today about how trans issues and abortion issues align and it’s all about reproduction. Complete nonsense. What turns people off is allowing people with working penises who are attracted to females to call themselves women and enter women’s spaces and calling people transphobic if they don’t buy in100%. But trans issues over all are a sideshow. Pete Buttigieg sounds very sane in the NYT today. Possible head of the DNC? He needs to be out there a lot.

Since Trump is branding the Repubs as the party of chaos and incompetence, Dems should position as the sane party. drop any extreme positions and then come back strong in 2026. I don’t think all Republicans are happy with Trump’s first two weeks as President elect.

R41 What I found particularly frustrating is the number of Latinos who are first or second generation and choose to vote for Trump MP because he represents their conservative religious beliefs - anti gay, anti abortion.

It is sad that you do not like the freedoms women and gays have because your God taught you to hate, but if you vote against them, how can you not see you are also voting against yourself?

All “victims” don’t share similar belief systems. That’s just an ideology dreamed up by white progressives on elite college campuses. It doesn’t function in the real world.

The Latinos I know personally that voted for trump are not anti gay . Not in the slightest. But they are not going around demanding support for the trans. And they are fed up with gay driven epidemics.

They may or may not be anti abortion. They are certainly pro family in a big way. And they are concerned about the porous border and crime x7

. And none of them go to church

They are the future of the GOP at one time they were the future of the DEMs

Though flagellating Democrats is a delight for Republicans, Democrats, and the New York Times, the Trump administration is following a classically disastrous route. Which is ignoring the voters who put you in power.

If prices and housing costs don’t go down, his non-proselytized voters will rebel, if the macro economy fails to grow, those who held their nose for their pocketbook will be demanding something else. If the white women who thought they’d be find can’t get birth control for their daughters, they’ll get over worrying about bathrooms.

[Quote] The Latinos I know personally that voted for trump are not anti gay .

They’re also not going to care when gay marriage is threatened.

Dems have to keep to their principles.

Just going with whatever cultural issue the GOP digs up will not gain Dems any more votes. The GOP will just pivot and find another—happens time after time.

Dems don’t need to hate and demonize like the GOP does constantly.

[Quote] And they are concerned about the porous border and crime x7

And the GOP pretended crime was out of control and were letting in all at the border.

To piggyback on R28’s comment

The term “Latino” is itself a creation of Anglo-Americans to designate people of Latin America in a way that is more inclusive because they felt it necessary to lump Brazilians in with Hispanics. Latino has no real meaning.

Latinx… another great idea!

The lesson to learn is that hate wins votes. I hope Dems don’t go down that path.

Trump is also a cult figure. I doubt anyone else can excite the deplorables like he does

[Quote] Latinx… another great idea!

Spic is better!

There is also a lot of rose colored glasses, worn particularly by Gen Z. The amnesia is going to break when he gives another psycho inaugural speech, rambles in front of world leaders, and tries to deny real problems like Covid.

He got an exceptionally lucky period to be president in his first term and lost for failing at the one real challenge he faced. Maybe he’ll get that lucky again, but I’m skeptical. We’ll all pay for putting this idiot in the White House again,

R247 most people including the DL care about issues that impact them or their family or friends directly. I doubt that most Americans ever think about gay marriage in any way during a years time.

Although survey data shows that when asked by survey takers gay marriage gets more positive support than most issues Americans are asked about.

In fact gay marriage is one of the most popular issues in the US even among those identifying as GOP where it is almost half in favor.

Taking rights away once given ? That is a whole lot different than never giving the right.

Americans are more concerned with gay sexually transmitted diseases than gay marriage because one does not adversely impact them or their children in any possible way.

[quote]It’s the economy, stupid!

R250 Do you speak Spanish? Do you live or spend time in Spanish-speaking communities in the US (or anywhere in the Western Hemisphere)? "Latino" is the preferred term among all classes, all Spanish-speaking groups.. "Hispano" is sometimes used, but much more rarely . "Latinx" is an invention by the Academy, although largely adopted and disseminated there by latino academics. It has no meaning outside of the academy, and those who are moved by critical race theory, and as a conclusive critique (importantly) by the outrage-grievance industry who live to attack "woke" culture.

R243 Religion/values and Latinos: first generation latino immigrants may represent the long-time hope and observation of the right wing that "oh, eventually they'll be Republican because of their religion and beliefs about abortion, family, and gays" etc. In fact first generation stayed with Dems and the shift was among second, third, fourth generation... who were simply more like white working class voters. Like white non-college-educated voters many second and third gen latinos are evangelical, and in that sense their "religion" motivated them... but no more so than white voters. In short: second and third gen vote just like similar demographics among white voters.

All the euroTrash leaders were kissing and licking his ass when congratulating him, they're scared as shit, and they should be, they corrupt as us the EU and of course pathetic Britain, he's coming for you!

R258 Put your dick back in your pants and sit down until you're called upon.

[quote]Since Trump is branding the Repubs as the party of chaos and incompetence, Dems should position as the sane party. drop any extreme positions and then come back strong in 2026. I don’t think all Republicans are happy with Trump’s first two weeks as President elect.

Anecdotally, the friends/family I've spoken to who voted for Trump (most holding their noses, but that's a different thread) are already annoyed with him and turned off by many of these loser Cabinet/staff picks. "Here we go again" is one refrain I heard - well yeah, it was chaos the first time why wouldn't it be for the second go-round?

I think the lot of them are surprised by how early and out-of-the-gate the mess has been. He's not anywhere near Inauguration and he's already effing up, and going to extremist margins.

r246 is fairly spot on: anyone who isn't hardcore MAGA - ie. the independent "swingers" or persuadable rightwing, is going to grow highly tired of the usual Trumpy antics this early-on, if the administration doesn't deliver on the things it promised to them.

Securing the border, getting grocery prices down, keeping inflation stable, trying to assist with lowering crime in many of the cities - if no delivery on most of these, while instead Trump & Co. seem to expend all their energy on their own kooky/retributive agenda, look for a lot of restlessness.

Again, not referring to hardcore MAGA which will follow DT off a cliff. I mean the middle-ground people who all swung over on Nov 5th.

Absolutely. And many of Trump’s ideas are very chaotic. Getting rid of Department of Education or changing Medicare rules really affects people’s lives. Even mass layoff of federal workers has real negative impact on many communities that voted for Trump.

[quote] (2) talk directly about getting people affordable housing, groceries, healthcare, and childcare.

Yeah, because that worked so spectacularly this last time.

People will learn that Trump will not be their savior--although the right wing media will spin every positive think like he's the second coming. Every negative thing will be because of the Dems, of course.

I've never heard anyone use Latinx in conversation who wasn't a republican making some stupid lie or other.

The is DL we don’t do that Latinx crap. We are far to busy discussing important things like how many colors in a flag and other really important issues that impact peoples actual lives..

Or the DL classic “ I am gay not a fucking queer”

We don’t go for silly labels

[quote]I've never heard anyone use Latinx in conversation who wasn't a republican making some stupid lie or other.

Democratic Senator and former Democratic Presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren uses it regularly:

Heartbroken and bitter from the political drama. And it’s not just directed towards the Republicans.

R267 God, it makes me wanna puke. And to think I voted for her once.

Now that Republican Evangelicals have dumbed down the electorate, Demcrats need to learn how to market to those people who have been voting against their own interests.

Marketing to toopids is the challenge to Democrats.

[quote]Demcrats need to learn how to market to those people who have been voting against their own interests. Marketing to toopids is the challenge to Democrats.

Bill Clinton understood it. “I feel your pain!” While hitting on ugly fat women and avoiding his bitch wife.

Obama spoke to the "working class" just fine, and he was always eloquent.

[Quote] Of course, kicking out the illegals is going to make fruit/veg scarce and pricey so that's definitely in the future.

to say nothing of the scarcity of people to clean your toilet

They have not learned their lesson. Someone is going to wind up Nancy Pelosi like the fake Julie Andrews in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and she's going to spew some preprogrammed music box shit and people will listen to her when she should just settle down to her muppet botox and be content with retirement.

As long as Democrat boomers are alive, the Democrats will be a shit show.

The party needs to listen to Bill Clinton more and progressives a lot less. Clinton was warning the Harris campaign but they did not listen.

The big move to Trump came from young voters 30 and under. Maybe the younger Dem voters are completely out of step with where most of their generation is. So listening to them isn’t a great idea either.

Clinton is a nonentity

R277 and Harris lost so maybe Clinton was correct.

I doubt that Bill Clinton voted for Hillary.

[quote]The big move to Trump came from young voters 30 and under. Maybe the younger Dem voters are completely out of step with where most of their generation is. So listening to them isn’t a great idea either.

The new CBS poll shows that 65% of people under 30 approve of how Trump is handling the transition. That's the highest of any age group. It's 59% approval across all ages, so yes, that age group seems to be on the move.

Democrats continue to do a great job serving their constituents as well as the moronic GOPs/MAGAs and non-voters, it is just that nasty, racist fear-mongering and convincing voters their kids will be "transed" (kind of true) are far more effective ways to get votes!

R280 Digital media. We are increasingly trained by our phones to train Big Data to train us. Gen Z is the canary in the coalmine... A.I. will be the final solution. I am old enough not to see The End.

Kamala will have learned the lesson that you can run for office for 8 years. The day after the inauguration, she should announce that she is running for the Democratic nomination. She can exert the same effect over the midterms, which most certainly will be ANOTHER referendum on Trump.

Who knows, maybe she can raise TWO billion this cycle.

[quote] The day after the inauguration, she should announce that she is running for the Democratic nomination

The party will dump her faster than it did Biden in 2024, and faster than it did the rest of the pack in favor of Biden in 2020. The party will dump a loser and go for whomever they think has the best chance of winning.

The Party is now going to have its own internal civil war for a while. In time new dem leaders will emerge. They are not gathering to support Harris.

Gavin Newsom is hot, but his spouse just bought a $9 million house. Completely out of touch if he wants to be the nominee of the working class.

[quote]Completely out of touch if he wants to be the nominee of the working class.

All the "working class" sees Mar-a-Lago as the just deserts of their Hero. I think folks on the left (the credentialed subgroup) simply misunderstand the psychology of "the working class"...

R286 That's because the whole "nominee of the working class" thing is utter bullshit. Politicians are all in for the money, the power and the historic relevance, all of them. Kudos for the Newsoms to get the house they wanted.

The lesson is that the country is racist and sexist as fuck,

Funny that the GOP labels itself as the party of the working class when everything it it does when it’s in power is for the uber wealthy

[quote]The new CBS poll shows that 65% of people under 30 approve of how Trump is handling the transition. That's the highest of any age group. It's 59% approval across all ages, so yes, that age group seems to be on the move.

Gen Z is truly awful.

[quote]Funny that the GOP labels itself as the party of the working class when everything it it does when it’s in power is for the uber wealthy

Of course, but the GOP is effective at convincing people that "Democrats only care about trannies and illegal immigrants. We care about you!" Their policies are awful, but their messaging is great.

[quote]Of course, but the GOP is effective at convincing people that "Democrats only care about trannies and illegal immigrants. We care about you!" Their policies are awful, but their messaging is great.

With the Democratic Party having firmly adopted the anti-Spock philosophy of "the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many," it's not hard for the GOP to convince voters of what the Democrats care about.

Democrats are just bad at the messaging. Biden did a fantastic job and people will find that out as Trump takes credit for all of his success in Trump's first two years,, Economic polices are like air craft carriers it takes a long time to turn. Gas Prices, Food prices, all set up by Trump on his first exit but blamed on Biden. Obama said it best. Of course Trump had a good economy his term, it was Obamas.

ALL of MSNBC, David Pakman, and Brian Tyler Cohen, who among them cover millions of Democratic voter groups is pushing the demands of the Gender Identity Movement EVEN HARDER, now with the election of Congressperson McBride, even though they would have done much the same anyway!

All are demanding MAGA Mike Johnson to "tell me what a woman is!"

The problem is that American voters need no help telling us what a woman is and this will keep losing elections for Democrats for years to come!

MORE TRANNIES!

R294 This is more than just being bad at messaging. There have been real and tangible consequences implemented on a sociopolitical scale that doesn't go unnoticed to the average citizen.

A perfect example of this is the haphazard way with which DEI has been adopted in the workplace and technology. This is not an argument against DEI. I do find it necessary, but I don't think it's been applied in a way that nurtures unity and inclusion but the exact opposite. The Democratic party has been at the forefront of this movement because they've built their platform on it.

Even AI programs that generate images have fallen prey to this and what it's done is caused DEI, as a concept, to be tainted and an easy target for naysayers. See the below linked reddit thread for a snippet involving AI outright refusing to generate images of White people when prompted.

There is an effective way for these matters to be introduced on governmental and social level. Sadly, the Democratic party just went overboard and lost both the plot and this election as a result.

Democrats just went overboard on their woke ideology. Probably because they only talk to themselves. The end result is real damage to the Party. It’s scary when a psychopath like Trump is more connected to average people than most Dems.

MSNBC thinks doubling down on trans issues is a good idea? wow…they NEVER get anything right.

You can’t tell which way a train is heading by looking at the tracks. Only Republicans were campaigning on woke ideology, by highlighting and magnifying comments from years ago.

Harris didn’t run issues or identity politics so that was a positive. However, the core woke belief that POC identify as victims and share political beliefs is just WRONG.

…run on woke issues…

Populism is pervading everything now... including threads like this.

The American/Western Democratic experiment is (was?) that all humans have rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Who deserves those rights, in the experiment, are not only for those that win the approval and support of the majority in a culture.

What an idea..................... it was.

[quote]Harris didn’t run on woke issues or identity politics so that was a positive.

She did by default.

This is Kamala just 4 years ago.

This is Marxism defined.

[quote] Who deserves those rights, in the experiment, are not only for those that win the approval and support of the majority in a culture.

Should a small minority be allowed to dictate to the majority what the culture should be?

[quote] by highlighting and magnifying comments from years ago.

Not true. The trans/identity movement has been unbelievably vocal for the past 4 years and the Dems have done nothing but encourage them, suggesting that anyone who disagrees is an utter idiot, a phobic, a racist and a Nazi. Right here on the DL the TQ+ screaming has been deafening, and that's happening now. And don't you dare say anything against it or you'll go to thought prison. Sooner or later that had to give and this GOP victory may be the first step toward disassembling all that nonsense.

Democrats need to learn how to run campaigns based on fact free PR.

Fixed unclickable YouTube short video from r303 is below:

Sidebar Tip: If on a desktop computer, click on the comments, then click on the time it was posted (i.e. 4 years/months/days/etc ago), it will then go to the default YouTube view. Use the share link from that page instead to share on DL.

If you're wondering how I'm getting the actual link even though it's not clickable, I'm using the "Inspect Element" option on my browser from a desktop computer and finding the actual YouTube link from. You are welcome.

BTW if trump is nominating Russian spy’s and assets how come the nsa and the fbi and the cia could not figure that out. And have the DOJ arrest them?

Don’t the Dems care anymore? Or is it incompetence?

R304 Aarggh! This is our disease. The idea that "a small minority" living their life imposes that life on the "majority"....

Our country is Christian! The majority is Christian! The majority wants Christianity in the schools! Jews and Buddhists are a minority, and their objection to Christianity in schools oppresses the majority!! Make America Christian Again!!!

Our country is heterosexual! The majority is heterosexual!..... etc. etc., figure it out.

[quote]BTW if trump is nominating Russian spy’s and assets how come the nsa and the fbi and the cia could not figure that out. And have the DOJ arrest them?

They have, Comrade, have you missed the briefings and memos?

I wonder if he is going to nominate Manafort when Tulsa Gabardi implodes.

[quote] This is Kamala just 4 years ago. This is Marxism defined.

Medicare and SS are marxism too. Is it so terrible?

I like how MAGAs demonize words for things they unrelated to.

Stop with the Marxism, you are embarrassing yourself with the smart kids.

Funny how they switched to Marxism from demonizing Socialism when people made the connection to the Social Safety Net. Socialism is not bad. Like Jessica Rabbit, Murdoch wants you to think it is.

R312

They won or did I misremember? And you are giving advice on things they did wrong? I’d concentrate on the losers that really need the help. The winners don’t give a fuck what the losers are thinking about them.

Giving advice on what the Republicans lied and cheated about.

R314 odd we have had so few threads about Trump and how he has lied and cheated , here on the DL during the last 12 months. Thanks for pointing this out.

With every post I can smell the dem turn around that is coming.

Oh Gavin Newsom really loved that Kim G:

“He’s terribly lonely, the job’s over his head, his wife left him and he’s drinking,” said one political observer who wanted to remain anonymous. “I think we’ve all known someone who’s been there.”

I like how MAGAs demonize words for things they unrelated to. Stop with the Marxism, you are embarrassing yourself with the smart kids. Funny how they switched to Marxism from demonizing Socialism when people made the connection to the iosm/Social Safety Net. Socialism is not bad. Like Jessica Rabbit, Murdoch wants you to think it is.

You're wrong.

The smart kids know the difference between Marxism and Socialism. The smart kids understand the meaning of that video. Watch it again.

In the video at R307 Chuckle Head Harris is arguing for Marxism: "Equitable treatment means that we all end up at the same place".

No Honey, that's not the way the world works.

[quote]I like how MAGAs demonize words for things they unrelated to. Stop with the Marxism, you are embarrassing yourself with the smart kids. Funny how they switched to Marxism from demonizing Socialism when people made the connection to the iosm/Social Safety Net. Socialism is not bad. Like Jessica Rabbit, Murdoch wants you to think it is.

You're wrong.

The smart kids know the difference between Marxism and Socialism. The smart kids understand the meaning of that video. Watch it again.

In the video at [R307] Chuckle Head Harris is arguing for Marxism: "Equitable treatment means that we all end up at the same place".

No Honey, that's not the way the world works.

The only lessons to be learned are

- Joe Biden was a failure

- Joe Biden withdrew too late

- Democrats can’t run a female

- Republicans won - again- by going negative and making promises they can’t keep (America will be great again - what does that even mean?).

- republicans are well on their way to authoritarian rule and now have a “mandate”

What lesson is there to learn?

That ever since Reagan got rid of the Fairness Doctrine that Democrats have been running against MAGA Media?

That ever since news morphed into entertainment and Murdoch took a washed up Reality Show Star and rolled his bag of shit in the sugar of MAGA politics that the Democrats need to turn Kamala into a Democratic Brand?

This^

At a certain point, you have to start looking forward. We’ll see what Trump accomplishes, if anything. It’s going to be a real test to see if Americans want this sense of righteousness even if he fails. That’s my concern is that people have been trained to think Democrats are evils and are terrible at governing. So even if Trump is bad, a majority will keep voting Republican out of a sense of righteousness and false superiority. They’ve really honed in on making Democrats the “enemy within.”

R322 never voted GOP since my first election which was Johnson. But after being on DL as long as I have I understand why many refuse to vote Dem and stay home or vote green or gop.

Many progressives I swear are only Dems seemingly in order to drive votes away from the Dems and to the GOP.

The lesson to learn is Americans will believe lies.

Tell them to get elected and regain power

Dems need to go progressive. This “We’re moderates” shit is a losing strategy

Americans as a whole are not progressive. This is a conservative country that favors capitalism unequivocally above all other systems, with no interest in let's all be equal and more like every man for himself. You say Socialism and people hear that they are coming for their money to help the lazy.

R325 maybe I miswrote but the problem is not progressive policies it’s progressives. They disgust the majority of people.

Harris outperformed Bernie Sanders in Vermont. No, the road to winning is not to go left.

[Quote] You say Socialism and people hear that they are coming for their money to help the lazy.

Americans don’t know what socialism is. It’s just a bad word they can’t actually define

[Quote] Harris outperformed Bernie Sanders in Vermont. No, the road to winning is not to go left.

Being a centrist party has won the Dems such great support…

Dems are called socialists and marxists by the right constantly.

Actually being socialist will help regain the support of the working class

The lesson Dems need to learn is the country is still a horribly racist, sexist, and homophobic nation.

Whites are petrified of minorities gaining power and will fight tooth and nail to keep it

[quote]At a certain point, you have to start looking forward.

And yet Trump said THEY ARE EATING THE DOGS.

[quote] Actually being socialist will help regain the support of the working class

That's laughable. The American working class abhors the very idea Socialism. They want their 3 cars plus the Dodge Mega Cab RAM 3500 and a weekend cabin by the lake, and no taxes.

R334, the working class wants affordable healthcare, housing, education, child care. Socialism will get them that.

Capitalism has failed them

Socialists are pussies and they all need to be shot the worthless ducks. Fuck them all they accomplish nothing.

Kill them all

[quote] the majority of anti immigration rhetoric does have at least a whiff of prejudice at its heart. Much of it can be boiled down to: "you're not like me, you don't belong here like I do".

Exactly, R10. The DL turns very anti-immigration at the least provocation, even setting aside a substantial measure of professional shit-stirrers.

Another interpretation: 'you're not like me, and, no, you can't have the job I don't want." And 'you can't want more for your family because then I'll look bad not wanting better for my family.'

[quote]- Joe Biden was a failure

NO, stop trying to gaslight us just because you are pissed off we lost. He was the ONLY one who has ever defeated Trump. That included everyone on the GOP side who ran against him as well.

Should he have dropped out from running sooner? Sure, but then no one expected a twice impeached 1 term president to run again. but he was not a failure, he accomplished a lot more than Trump did in his first time.

Biden was both a success and a failure, and not entirely one or the other. He could be both humble and proud to a fault. He could be very effective and blind to changing times and situations.

Yes, it's too bad that grandpa didn't recognize that it was time to give up the keys to the car sooner. It's too bad that those close to him didn't step in to take away the keys when it was clear he couldn't see his own shortcomings. But all of this was half-hidden under the rug until the first debate with Trump where he was shown as a drooling old fool by the biggest and most dangerous buffoon of our lifetimes. Continuing to try to cover up by insisting that 'Uncle Joe' was the greatest president ever, accomplishing Herculean feats one after another is fucking ridiculous. Likewise, it's fucking ridiculous to say he was an all around terrible present, the worst ever. Unfortunately Trump's taste for mutually exclusive superlatives and distaste for the least bit of nuance in undertsnading affects both his supporters and his detractors.

[quote]Dems need to go progressive. This “We’re moderates” shit is a losing strategy

“We’re moderates” doesn’t work because nobody believes it. Every Democratic policy is “Tranny this” and “Palestine that.”

[quote] “We’re moderates” doesn’t work because nobody believes it. Every Democratic policy is “Tranny this” and “Palestine that.”

No, that's the purposely conflation of progressive policies with Democratic politicians. Most Dem politicians have said little about trans and Palestine. The GOP pretends progressive and Dems are one and the same.

That said, Dems have to stand for something. Being against the demonization of an LGBTQ group and the massacring of thousands of civilians with American weapons aren't extreme stands.

You're really going to tear the Jewish vote from the Democratic party? That seems like a TERRIBLE idea.

R342, Jews aren't stupid. The most ever, 80%, voted for the Dems this election.

[quote] the massacring of thousands of civilians with American weapons aren't extreme stands.

It’s called war dipshit. And the only “massacring” that has occurred was on October 7th when over 1200 civilians were deliberately targeted and slaughtered.

R344, why is one called war and the other, terrorism?

[quote] Most Dem politicians have said little about trans and Palestine.

Saying nothing speaks volumes. If a politician doesn’t do the right thing and publicly support Jsrael’s right to defend itself from terrorism, or speak out against biological men in women’s sports, it will be interpreted that the candidate is on the wrong side of the issues.

The difference is easy to spot. R345. One of those wears a uniform and one does not. One has tanks and jets and one does not

R347, sadly, that's the only difference. Developed countries with militaries cast off any guilt by claiming "It's war!" yet thousands of people are being killed.

[quote] Saying nothing speaks volumes. If a politician doesn’t do the right thing and publicly support Jsrael’s right to defend itself from terrorism, or speak out against biological men in women’s sports, it will be interpreted that the candidate is on the wrong side of the issues.

Neither is the "right thing."

Everyone believe any developed country has the right to defend itself from terrorism. But when the response is so lopsided, with the slaughtering of thousands, it becomes terrorism too. As for the trans issues, we see with the Nancy Mace nonsense, it's actually about hating and demonizing trans, not just about trans in sports.

[quote]Every Democratic policy is “Tranny this” and “Palestine that.”

NO, that is the MAGA sale pitch,

Actually, it is Civil Rights this and Israeli and Palestinian PEOPLE that.

Do you think that Civil Rights and Israeli and Palestinian PEOPLE are what was going to drive enough voters to a dem win this year?

R345 There's a difference, idiot. Like the difference between men and women. Google it.

r351, the spin on Gaza, totally ignoring Putin and the Pandemic were beautiful campaign pivots that did bring undecided to vote MAGA.

Well, after they put down their dog.

The main lesson Dems need to learn is that Melania will offer her used pussy to anyone who will pay her

Justin Trudeau is man enough to divorce his wife.

Now Gavin Newsom should take his lead and put to bed that fake marriage, but he is being a pussy.

Is Melania Women ENOUGH to divorce Dump? That's the real question.

Melania does not need to divorce Trump as her every love is reimbursed according to the numerously revised and renegotiated prenup.

The difference between real Melania and fake Melania is all a negotiation.

[quote]The difference is easy to spot. [R345]. One of those wears a uniform and one does not. One has tanks and jets and one does not

One invaded a country and deliberately targets civilians. One uses rape, torture, burning people alive and kidnapping etc as weapons of war and gleefully posts videos of this online. One is driven by religious ideology and a disregard for their civilians whom they use as human shields. One declares their intention to annihilate an entire people they object to on religious grounds and so on.

This narrative that the terrorists are so defenseless is laughable but it also begs the question of why they invaded Israel on October 7th if they have so little means to defend themselves? I mean can’t the Muslim Brotherhood set them up a bit better?

This thread Demonstrates how the Democrats are expected in to be surgically precise as to what they do and say as to appeal to this group or that without offending and chasing away other groups. It’s like threading a needle with your eyes closed.

These days Republicans can act like asses, be vulgar and espouse the most horrible, irrational and regressive views imaginable. They don’t have to offer ANY policies that will logically make voters lives better and they still win almost everything. A huge percentage of the American electorate is just not reachable through logical, thought out policies that offer any benefits and protections they pay their taxes for. These people are happy to mindlessly eat the shit sandwiches and wallow in the misery the Republicans offer them. I don’t know how to fix this.

R358 your answer has absolute shit to do with the quote you used.

[Quote] One invaded a country and deliberately targets civilians. One uses rape, torture, burning people alive and kidnapping etc as weapons of war

You just described most armies

I invaded a country and we the US targeted one hell of a lot of civilians. Many of which men, women, and children we burnt to a crisp. But we were not terriorists because we did wear uniforms. Although we tried to hide that fact often.

We did not use rape as a weapon of war.

We did kill evil terriorists and later realized they were the freedom fighters.

For those that have never been there it comes down to only two things that are important , incoming and outgoing. The rest is bullshit, excuses, and detail. And there are no good or bad guys just us vs them.

Back to the REMFs

The lesson Democrats need to learn is that they need a message distribution vehicle like Murdoch/Fox/OAN/Newsmax that is not tied to broadcast rules.

The Republicans do run on something (tough on crime, anti-immigrant, bringing down inflation, lower taxes). Plus they run on fear that Democrats will ruin all those things and are weak and woke. It’s very successful. Agree that Democrats try to hard to appease every group which is impossible. Just run on four or five things that appeal to most voters.

Tough on crime

Secure border

Bring down inflation

Lower taxes

There are four good ones to start with. Five would be something to do with national security..

Crime is down

Trump fucked up the border bill.

Inflation is at pre Pandemic levels.

And we know that when Trump means lower taxes, it is lower taxes for the rich.

The Democrats lost because of the Murdoch/OAN/Newsmax/Fox-advertising/Marketing/Analytics consortium that had a client base of one person.

The American Rescue Plan Act and the Paycheck Protection Programs were enough to get Biden Reelected, but it seems that the Murdoch/OAN/Newsmax/Fox-advertising/Marketing/Analytics consortium can bury TWO FUCKING BILLION DOLLARS IN DIRECT RELIEF TO STATES AND COUNTIES.

Want to know why you feel odd about Bidenomics and the economy? IT'S BECAUSE YOU STILL HAVE A JOB.

Oops two fucking TRILLION DOLLARD.

[Quote]Democrats are expected in to be surgically precise as to what they do and say as to appeal to this group or that without offending and chasing away other groups.

R359 No one expects this Democrats to do this. The party has just restructured its platform this way for some weird reason. Now, Democrats have painted themselves into a corner trying to appeal to every fringe group who isn't even a large percentage of the entire country let alone their constituents.

I know it's been said to death since the election (because it's true) so I repeat it, but giving too much attention to specific group who had absurd and objectively harmful demands that most people in not just the US but the world find ridiculous, messed the Democrats up. Significantly.

They should stop giving that fringe group so much attention moving forward. It's doing more harm than good.

^ *I won't repeat it

[quote]The Democrats lost because of the Murdoch/OAN/Newsmax/Fox-advert - ising/Marketing/Analytics consortium that had a client base of one person.

So intellectually lazy blaming it all on Fox and company.

[Quote] We did not use rape as a weapon of war.

Ask the Vietnamese what American soldiers did

Dems have to find better ways of scaring people. 12 million didn’t come out to vote because they were scared enough.

Only when the economy tanks (like with every GOP president) will people be scared emough

R372 Using fear to manipulate the behavior of people in your favor is what dictators and abusers do. Strong, effective, leaders with attractive policies to the common man don't need to resort to such tactics.

r370, intellectually lazy to blame a 24/7/52 propaganda machine that repeats lies and misinformation while making billions of advertising dollars?

It's not lazy, it's connecting the dots on the OBVIOUS.

No R374 "It's the economy, stupid".

Democrats are still acting like it’s 2014. If you’re going to wrestle a pig, you have to get down in the mud. You don’t get points (or votes) for being ethical and “staying above the fray.” Also, break down your messaging so that the GED crowd can take it in. Felonious Fatty was actually voted into office…just like Hitler. Let that fully sink in.

r375, Like the TWO TRILLION DOLLAR ARPA and PPP that saved the economy and MAGA FOX-Advertixing/Marketing/Analytics had people standing around with thumbs up their asses, not feeling the recovery, because of the price of EGGS?

You mean the MAGA Propaganda machine did not tell people they kept their jobs because of Biden and the Democrats?

Just MAGA shit about eggs?

R371 do you really not understand the difference between armies that use rape as a weapon of war and armies that did have some rapists in it.

Please tell me you are smart enough to see the difference?

[quote] Dems have to find better ways of scaring people.

Democrats running a campaign of fear, and only fear, in 2024 was unsuccessful. It would be better to try a campaign that gives voters a positive reason to vote for the Democrat rather than relying only on fear of Trump.

[quote] Also, break down your messaging so that the GED crowd can take it in.

It’s important that Democrats address them that way publicly, although I’m certain working class people already know that’s how Democrats see them. I’m sure they’ll find it endearing.

The new admin is busy putting together two lists

Things we can do that our voters and those that were almost with us will really like.

Things we can do to demoralize and weaken and crush Dems for decades to come. The enemy within.

I’m sure. The first list will have Latinos, Blacks, and Gays for Trump waaaay ahead of the billionaire class.

[quote]Democrats running a campaign of fear, and only fear

That is Fox/MAGA propaganda.

I only wist Democrats had run a campaign of fear. But instead we went with the kum-ba-ya hope message.

Silly Democrats will have more actual fear to run on in 2028

[quote] Democrats are expected in to be surgically precise as to what they do and say as to appeal to this group or that without offending and chasing away other groups.

Voters hate that. It’s better to pick a side, and hopefully the right one. For example, supporting Israel is not only the morally correct thing to do, it will also gain more votes than being anti-Israel.

[quote]I only wist Democrats had run a campaign of fear. But instead we went with the kum-ba-ya hope message.

“Trump is literally Hitler, Mussolini, and Stalin and will send millions of people to concentration camps, kumbaya. Oh Lord, kumbaya.”

I only recall hearing the first part of that lyric from the Democrats, repeatedly.

Yeah, like Trump’s dual position on abortion cost him votes? No one in this race was anti-Israel, though r384 sees anyone who thinks Palestinians should be able to live is someone who hates Israel.

This is an unfair, asymmetrical standard because Republicans and there voters value tribalism over all else. Democrats were going after mispronouncing “Kamala,” while Republicans were admitting to making up stories and eager in their desire to vote for the felon.

You don’t win asymmetrical battles by speaking to fairness. You have to throw out the rules and play a game that favors your team.

And r385, that tune came from Trump’s chief if staff and vice president elect.

If the Dems ran on anything it was Donald Trump. Other than that I am not so sure I could name 2-3 things that stand out to me with the Dem campaign.

Fear of Donald (which I thought made a lot of sense at the time) seemed like their main message.

They voted trump for a lot of reasons and some'of those reasons can be seen every week on the threads of the DL.

[quote]Democrats were going after mispronouncing “Kamala,” while Republicans were admitting to making up stories and eager in their desire to vote for the felon.

pretty much

The RW propaganda machine is huge. It's not just Fox. It's all over the internet, nearly all of talk radio, and in churches. It's all lies and deception, and it specifically tells it's consumers to NEVER watch or believe the FAKE MSM. Truthful reporting is labeled lies by people they claim are intent on destroying the country, Marxists, and demons. Add in Putin's troll farms, and it's really no longer a contest. This shift won't be overcome by Democrats changing the message.

To be fair lots on DL tell us to ignore MSM ( not the fun kind the media kind)

But you point out why it may be many elections with the GOP in power. Not only do they won the House, the Senate, the WH, the SC, they also have the media that counts. And soon msnbc I hear.

And they are coming out to make sure the next election will not be close. This could go on for decades.

I agree

The GQP is now the Fascist Party. Ignore that reality at your own peril.

r385, no actual fear. Like Trumps bungling and inability to make a profit from COVID killed an extra 300 Americans in the Pandemic. Many of them screaming to their graves NOT to get the vaccine.

No actual shit he did, not proposed shit.

They did well with the abortion stuff, but they should have expanded it to the REVOCATION OF THE RIGHT TO PRIVACY.

Trump's corrupt Supreme Court opened up the way for not only abortion Bans but killing gay marriage, killing all forms of contraception (because in Evangelical biology ALL contraception is ABORTION) and on and on. Once the Trump/McConnell/Leo/Crow court killed Roe they killed every stare decisis decision based on Roe and there are HUNDREDS.

Now lets talk about Chevron...

Dems mounting a major move to take down the GOP by being even more Debbie Downers than ever before. Because this is the message Americans are waiting to hear.

No Americans are waiting for Democrats to take credit for the ARPA and PPP and all the shit it prevented in RED STATES.

if only Harris had made that clear , the Dems would have won the WH, Senate, House, because that was what Americans were waiting to hear says R395

[Quote] Using fear to manipulate the behavior of people in your favor is what dictators and abusers do. Strong, effective, leaders with attractive policies to the common man don't need to resort to such tactics.

And here we are…

[quote] And here we are…

Yes, fear didn’t work, and now we have Trump as a consequence.

Democrats didn't use fear, and here we are.

But never forget, Trump never stops criming.

The right has a propaganda infrastructure Kim Jong-un would envy and tens of millions of religious zealots who believe the Democratic Party is literally Satanic on their side. Plus QAnon and other conspiracy theory lunacy is rampant. These voters sit atop a mountain of bullshit, lies, and fantasy. The electorate in the USA has become further and further detached from reality every election cycle. This is not something that can be overcome anytime soon.

[Quote] Yes, fear didn’t work, and now we have Trump as a consequence.

Um, Trump and the GOP always uses fear and they win with it

[bold] IN SPRINGFIELD THEY ARE EATING THE DOGS, THEY ARE EATING THE CATS [/BOLD] - That's all I need hear, you got my vote! MAGA!!

[quote] Um, Trump and the GOP always uses fear and they win with it

Democrats running on a campaign of fear in 2024 didn’t work for them though.

[quote]Democrats didn't use fear, and here we are.

They tried: he's Hitler, a Nazi, it will be the end of democracy etc.

He still won.

They didn't do the appropriate comparison with death camps and piles of dead bodies compared to pandemic piles of frozen corpses.

Murdoch knows it's all about the visuals.

[Quote] They tried: he's Hitler, a Nazi, it will be the end of democracy etc.

Americans don’t respond to things they’ve never experienced.

[quote] Americans don’t respond to things they’ve never experienced.

Actually, they did respond to things they never experienced. They responded to Democrats’ off-the-chart hyperbole about Hitler and concentration camps by chucking all of the party’s message and the standard bearer since they knew that wasn’t their experience of when Trump was previously president. Democrats should have known that kind of scare message wouldn’t work when it was about someone who the electorate already knew what he would be like as president.

Democrats could have still run on real world fears, like abortion, civil rights, and tariffs, but once they crossed the red line into calling their opponent literally Hitler, they couldn’t be taken seriously. When comparing anyone to Hitler, just don’t.

R407 - wasn't it Trump's ex-administration staff who had worked closely with him in his first administration and would no longer have anything to do with him and people like Vance who labelled Trump as a dictator and a Hitler wannabe?

[quote]Democrats running on a campaign of fear in 2024 didn’t work for them though.

Because fear is not what motivates, them, it's hate. How many times does it have to be said? [bold]IN SPRINGFIELD THEY ARE EATING THE DOGS, THEY ARE EATING THE CATS. [/bold]

They don't fear the immigrant, they hate them. BIG DIFFERENCE!

[quote]Because fear is not what motivates, them, it's hate.

Spot on R409.

They did not fear Kamala, they HATED her just like they hate all woman, even other women hate each other, the voters have proven this to be true.

To be fair, they also hate immigrants, people of color, and LGBTQ especially T.

They also hate those with a college degree, people who live on the west coast and science.

[quote]They did not fear Kamala, they HATED her just like they hate all woman, even other women hate each other, the voters have proven this to be true.

Then explain to us how Hillary Clinton won the popular vote.

They HATED Hillary, she still lost, that's what counts. [bold]#HATE, #WINS

^ More people voted for Hillary than Trump.

I

^^Popular votes don't matter.

Hillary had been demonized for30 years by the right. By the time she ran for President, there was a long history of hate for her. The only reason she got the popular vote was slightly more Democrats came out to vote than Republicans.

[quote] The only reason she got the popular vote was slightly more Democrats came out to vote than Republicans.

100% of her vote margin was from the excess Democratic votes in California.

You all are still focusing on THEY & THEM and I’m not talking pronouns. Finger pointing and projection. MAGAts did what you couldn’t, made people believe they could make their everyday lives better. They focused on the economy and inflation. Until progressive liberals give up on wanting a Drag Queen Story Time in every kindergarten classroom and demanding pronoun declarations begin every interaction and pushing for the completely implausible reparations and calling every white person a “racist Nazi” and every man a “misogynistic rapist”, until you give all that shit up YOU WILL CONTINUE TO LOSE!

The current loser becomes the future winner by looking inward not outward, you already know what the other side did, now is the time to own and correct your mistakes.

[quote] They HATED Hillary, she still lost, that's what counts. #HATE, #WINS

They hated Trump, but Harris still lost. There doesn’t seem to be a correlation in this case.

[quote]MAGAts did what you couldn’t, made people believe they could make their everyday lives better.

So TRUE. That's why we voted for Dump, because you know what makes our lives better? Knowing Donald Trump would do something about eating the dog and eating the cats. Our lives are so much better now. - MAGAts.

R422 say what you will, but he won… so yes the majority believed he would improve their lives.

Republicans did NOT FEAR Nancy Pelosi, THEY HATED HER.

Harsh reality, if Democrats want to win, they need a HATE campaign not a fear campaign, not a love campaign, not a human rights campaign, not a save Democracy campaign. Hate works in America. That's the cold hard facts.

r407, Democrats’ off-the-chart hyperbole about Hitler and concentration camps by chucking all of the party’s message and the standard-bearer since they knew that wasn’t their experience of when Trump was previously president?

And yet we see Trump fulfilling the Fascist Neo-Nazi Manifesto known as Project 2025.

Republicans never fixed their mistakes or introspected over it. They just double down on lying.

Get Gavin Newsom a divorce from the Robot Spouse.

I took a break from DL before the election and just returned. The average poster here absolutely learned nothing. They are still in the same loops they were before. Now on the road to defeat in 2028. Trump Derangement Syndrome is very real.

[quote]Republicans did NOT FEAR Nancy Pelosi, THEY HATED HER.

And they hated her because they feared her. They just didn't hate her for no reason. She is a very high-profile, smart woman who had a ton of power as Speaker, and was never afraid to use it. She never cowered to men around her, either. She was intimidating.

R430 “had” a ton of power

Keyword. She’s not a player anymore.

Uh, that's what I wrote r431.

Hate and Fear are intertwined with MAGA world. Btu lets be honest, HATE is more powerful than fear, and hate is the one tool Dems are afraid to actually use and build a campaign around. Yet this the most powerful took MAGA uses on a regular basis.

You don't go to a gun fight with a butter knife. Dems will never learn.

Dems got way too cocky with the Kamala “nomination”. They thought they had it in the bag early on. When the “kamala is brat” shit took off, I knew we’d lost already.

You didn't know any such thing R434. You saw a metnally ill mentally incompetent running for president who proved every day he had zilch to offer the American people, and you assumed people wouldn't want such a person in charge of nuclear weapons. But here's the thing, the average Trump voter doesn't even know what n uclear war would be like. We have forgotten all of history with these people.

R435 learn to type. She lost.

HATE WINS! = Lesson Learned.

If anything describes DL it’s hate and fear fear and hate,, R433

Fear especially.

Datalounge is a relic of the past, most posters are at least 65 and older and wildly out of touch. How many old school Democrats were claiming blue wave, blue wave? This isn't 2008, a change didn't come, people are tired of playing nice either way.

R429 It's comical the meltdowns happening and all of them blaming the kids. If we don't have an honest discussion on what the Democrats are doing wrong then this party will be done come midterms let alone 2028. These posters will die watching MSNBC alone and never look in the mirror.

Nothing is ever done r440. That's what makes this whole thing so hysterical. Who the fuck knows what the great and good Americanus Doofus will be obsessing about in 2026. Yes, you can run up and down the entire country screaming out that you hates them trans bitches in sports too, only to discover that suddenly nobody gives a fuck.

Hey, remember when Critical Race Theory was the ultimate debbil, and if only them thar Demoncrats could stop being all Marxist Black Professors everything would be great?

[quote] If we don't have an honest discussion on what the Democrats are doing wrong

Yes, lets be very honest about that. Critics of the Democrats need to stop with their RHINO Monday morning quarterbacking about how Democrats are out of touch excuse. The HONEST truth is HATE WORKS. Trump and Republicans know this, tapped into this, they ran on this and it's THE MAIN REASON Republican won. They hate immigrants they hate woman, they hate equality, they hate LGBT, they hate diversity, they hate Democracy.

Until you admit the Democrats need to run a hate campaign and not a fear campaign you are just as out of touch as those you so smugly accuse of being so.

[quote]It's comical the meltdowns happening and all of them blaming the kids.

Well, the majority of young white males put Trump into office so......

Agree about the hate, and like in a weird rom-com, the obvious hate object has been right in front of us all this whole time: the motherfucking pain in the ass constantly obnoxious Rich. Try it. We've tried so much else. Just whip up a frenzy of absolute hatred for the rich, just for the laughs if nothing else. I know people think we have, but really, deep down, we know we have barely tried. We know we can all do better here. We really do.

You are still behind the curve R444. The ultra rich are only a very small group most people dont see in their daily lives. Republicans run on a whole platter of groups to hate. You are just nibbling at the appetizer.

You think small numbers are a problem in whipping up a frenzy r445? Like the Trans? See, we're not even trying here.

But that' s just it. Nobody would miss the rich if they were gone, but their removal would mean big changes for the better in politics, culture, and the economy.

Do you want to win, or just do what's right? HATE is NOT based on logic. Hating the rich may make more logical sense, but hating immigrants hits were haters see it in their daily lives. It's an emotional response to simplistic observations. So even though it will kill our economy if Dump exported 10 million people overnight, the hate works.

If you want to win, you need to pick several groups where people can easily and viscerally respond in agreement without logic or facts. That's why the 30 million spent on anti-trans worked so effectively. Most Americans have probably never met the 0.0001% of trans. All they know is they see a man in a dress and lipstick with an odd voice and they don't like it.

Most people have never met ANY of their hate objects. In fact, that's usually one of the key factors. We haven't made a concerted hate-the-fucking-rich campaign in a long time. We used to be pretty damn good at it, as a party. We should exercise those muscles again. Nothing else seems to be working at all, really.

Well, I had a friend here in CA who was always complaining about how the illegal immigrants were taking up all the medical resources every time I gave him a ride to a health clinic. Never mind he was worth about 2 million on paper. He still used the system as if he were broke. When I pointed out just become there were a lot of people who were Hispanic in the waiting room, it does not mean they were illegal, he just rolled his eyes and went on to say how Calif is a nanny state.

We are no longer friends, but that sums up the hate that people on the right run with. I later saw a post on FB where he went totally MAGA in 2016.

And your friend sounds like a truly wonderful hate object r450. Damn, spread his fucking, fucked up story all over the country with a $30 million ad campaign, and well, shit, we're halfway there.

The rich are such fucking cunts. No, I know, not all of them, but really enough of them that they are just begging to be treated like they want every other group to be treated.

[quote]Do you want to win, or just do what's right?

We want to WIN, that's the entire name of the game in politics. Winning is Everything, as they say. When you win, then you can "do what's right" and implement your agenda; when you lose, you do nothing.

Politics is about winning; activism and organizing is about doing right. In the best of circumstances the two converge, sometimes they don't and compromises must then be made, to enable both.

"The Latinos I know personally that voted for trump are not anti gay . Not in the slightest. But they are not going around demanding support for the trans. And they are fed up with gay driven epidemics."

WTF are you rambling on about? What gay driven epidemics are you talking about? AIDS was 40 fucking years ago.

And besides, even at the height of the AIDS/HIV epidemic there was a very simple way of avoiding AIDS/HIV, just like there's a very easy way to avoid an unwanted pregnancy: keep your dick in your pants.

Hidden agenda much?

Didn't the Fox/OAN/Newsmax propaganda run Monkey Pox 24/7 a while back?

We are just bigoted filler to them.

[quote]Just whip up a frenzy of absolute hatred for the rich

And insult our donors? Are you nuts?

Not the same r455, can you name a Billionaire donor who personally gave over 200 million dollars to Kamala? how about foreign nations?

[quote]The HONEST truth is HATE WORKS.

The hated of Trump is larger than every other hate out there, by far, yet it didn't work for the Democrats this cycle. Why were you so wrong?

Not wrong at all r457. Trump is just one single politician. The hate that works is generally about a group of people like Immigrants, gays, people of color, etc. People you might actually see in your daily life.

You are really missing the point here. What Trump did was tap into the hate that "those people" are taking away with is rightfully yours. Like jobs, medical care, benefits, your neighborhoods. Trump is just one person, the middle right does not hate him.