Laurence Tribe Says it's Not Over.....

Laurance Tribe is an impressive man but he is from an era which no longer exists. Part of the problem with the situation we are in right now is that we have never seen anything like it before. The wheels have come off. All the norms are gone and we are going to have to adjust and learn how to operate in this new world we are entering.

Tribe makes good points but they are old-fashioned ideas based on another time when there was more decency between people, more expectations of social contract and less information manipulation. I like his positivity though. I just think he's out of touch and out of his depth. Quite a lot of what he says is completely clueless and of a time long gone.

Right now I can't even deal with these small windows of hope. I won't get fooled again. I can't.

Does he have keys too?

It's not even a window of hope though R2. Did you watch?

R4

No, I didn't. Why? Will it make me feel better or worse? (Actually it was more because I don't like Velshi, or watching anything with him.)

Will it matter if I do watch?

I think. that's part of what I'm talking about. I don't even want to deal with mixed messages about the future. There are prognosticators everywhere telling competing stories.

Or better said, good or bad, I need to shut it all down for a while.

Or maybe I misunderstood what you were saying.

Will be trampled by trump,/nazis-why bother…

Dems will get power back in 2 years . It’s like clockwork.

We will be depressed for a bit but get reenergized soon enough. The next president will likely be Dem too because, like all other GOP presidents in my lifetime, Trump’s next tax cuts will leads us right into recession.

Hang tight

Please-Dems lost to disinformation-hate & Greed-‘’the last golden days of the 30’s’’

R5 - it's someone talking about ideals and standards that no longer exist. He's well-meaning but clueless. I watched it all and it hasn't given me any hope. He clearly doesn't understand what's happening because he's from a time when what's happened was impossible and unthinkable and morally reprehensible. He's from a time like when Nixon resigned. And looking back to that time - there was still a modicum of decency. Gone now. I wouldn't bother watching it. Don't waste your time. I didn't mean my post to be offensive and sorry if you were offended.

In fact it makes me wonder how many elderly politicians are like this - living on another planet - and reminds me that age limits in federal politics are imperative. We've got to do something about that.

well, as we can see from this thread, there is . . . no consensus

it'll all come down to individual people making good choices when necessary.

Not so much ignite as self-combust. If this is the DNC's big plan to recouping crushing losses then they'll only be slitting their own throats. Talk about not reading a room. They should focus on the classic liberal ideals of their party from yesteryear and drop all the crazy Far Left nonsense about open borders, defunding the police, free sex change for prisoners and illegals, and reinventing the Constitution. I miss the Democrats from the 60s-90s, before dementia set in.

R9

Thanks for that. I wasn't sure where you were going but I understand now. I agree completely, which is why I didn't watch. (excepting Velshi.)

What you describe is something that is very apparent to me - Democrats have been bringing knives to a gunfight for years. They repeatedly give the other side too much credit and don't realize - this is a simplification - you can't be nice and polite in the mean and irrational Republican environment - which is now America. Everything you wrote describes the current environment perfectly.

The old rules of civility and cooperation in politics are gone. Democrats should reevaluate their approach. But I don't have any answers.

I don't wish to get into an argument about this - and I have mixed feeling about him - great admiration mixed with some agita - Joe Biden believed in doing things the old way., but the new world doesn't accommodate or work with the old rules. Trump and his ilk blew up the old rules. The old world. Biden was an institutionalist. That approach is no longer workable.

We should have been euphemistically yelling fire in the crowded theater. I suppose we were and it didn't matter.

Sorry for the rambling post.

Our INSTITUTIONS will protect us.

R1 is correct. And the information manipulation will only get worse in the age of AI. Today's young voters are ill-educated and don't understand history. They have no critical thinking skills. They respond to 10 second sound bites. They wouldn't read a book, even if they knew what a book was. Sadly, unless there's a serious grassroots campaign to educate our youth, the lessons of history will soon be entirely forgotten.

[quote]Not so much ignite as self-combust. If this is the DNC's big plan to recouping crushing losses then they'll only be slitting their own throats. Talk about not reading a room. They should focus on the classic liberal ideals of their party from yesteryear and drop all the crazy Far Left nonsense about open borders, defunding the police, free sex change for prisoners and illegals, and reinventing the Constitution. I miss the Democrats from the 60s-90s, before dementia set in.

The things listed as "far left nonsense" sound more like far right GOP talking points than anything in the platform of the Democratic Party, which does not include or advocate for any of that. Lies and misinformation are huge part of the problem and it comes overwhelmingly from the far right side of the spectrum. They are the real threat to the country and don't care about the truth, but the people decided that's what they want. So we're all about to see what happens when extremist conservatives have control of all three branches of government.

As soon as he spoke the words "civil society," I knew his opinion wouldn't hold water.

DO NOT OBEY IN ADVANCE

Stop giving all of this power to Trump that he does not have. Make him fight for it. It will delay and fuck things up for him and raise awareness.

DO NOT OBEY IN ADVANCE

You all are cute if you think Democrats will ever win another election.

Dump told you “we will fix it so you never have to vote again”. Just like they did THIS TIME, yet no one wants to investigate it.

FFS, didn't 2016-2020 show that many of these "safeguards" depend on people behaving honourably, with no defence mechanism if they don't?

What reforms were passed after Nixon to ensure something like Watergate could never happen again? What reforms were passed after Reagan to ensure something like Iran-Contra could never happen again? What reforms were passed after W Bush to ensure something like Iraq could never happen again? What reforms were passed after Trump's first term to ensure something like..oh just about every-fucking-thing could never happen again?

The military hates Trump. So there's that.

I don’t think Democrats are going to get histrionic this time. We’ll just watch. Maybe speak out if it’s just too much. But other than that…

What Tribe is describing is like a return to the worst days of Trump's COVID crisis. The federal government was either doing nothing or doing things to make things worse. Much of our situations were dependent on which state you lived in and how your state government responded.

Some states are going to lay back and let Trump's government do whatever they want to do and some state governments are going to fight whatever proposals they can.

If it’s any institution that is wildly out-of-touch with accurate current voting and living-standard realities in our country, especially in these years, it’s Harvard University and its think-pool “expert” hacks, sorry.

[quote]What you describe is something that is very apparent to me - Democrats have been bringing knives to a gunfight for years.

I think R13 makes an incredibly important point that we all need to think about. We have to change our tactics completely to meet them on their own playing field or continue to lose.

Agree with R13 and R25. I think Harris understood some of that, which is why it was so refreshing to see some of her ads or SM posts in response to something trump did or said. She realized that Michele Obama’s 2016 ‘when they go low, we go high’ bullshit doesn’t work in today’s political landscape where trump and the GOP have no bottom, yet, there are no real consequences for being so nasty and hateful and mendacious. I think Harris should’ve gone harder, but the kind of aggressivess needed to play the same game as the right will only be accepted from a man, it will never be tolerated coming from a woman, especially a woman of color. Trying to maintain civility and decorum in politics now is seen not only as weak but out of touch. If the next Dem candidate understands these new rules and acts accordingly, I think we’ll have a shot. But believing that we need to play nice lest we alienate voters isn’t working at all. The question is whether it will actually happen. The Dems aren’t just great at shooting themselves in the foot, they’re also the masters of reloading the gun and shooting again. I’m just fucking tired of it all.

Thats adorable, that he believes that.

Don't forget all the material Jack Smith has on TRG, and other House repute can be used against TFG and his group of loons. Jamie Raskin or whomever in the Dems can use all that to stall any Project 2025 stuff coming down the pipes. Why Gym Jordan thinks Smith would 'purge' those thousands of documents is ridiculous...it's evidence baby.

My first national election to vote was in 1972. I voted for George McGovern. McGovern was thoroughly trounced by Richard Nixon. You wanna talk about "Dems in disarray?" But 21 months later, Nixon resigned in disgrace. I know Trump would never resign, but my point is, these things are cyclical and no one can accurately predict the future.

"Why Gym Jordan thinks Smith would 'purge' those thousands of documents is ridiculous."

Wishful thinking on Mr. Jordan's part, probably because Mr. Jordan's name is mentioned in those documents hundreds of times.

I wonder how he feels about his former students that are now on the Supreme Court.

r29 But Nixon only went when the Republicans turned on him. Do you see this Republican party turning on Trump?

If he crashes and burns the US economy like he did with Covid in 2020 and Pukes lose big in 2026 congressionals, yes.

R16 - Those were just words to the wise, hon. No worries. You just keep doing you and you'll see the further sad results. Read the room. It really couldn't be any plainer.

trump is a monster - no morals, no value, no empathy, no sense of decency. That fact that over half of American voters think putting this monster back in office is more important than preserving our democracy tells me that we have lost. I will fight, I will resist, but int he end, I really do believe that the American experiment in democracy is over. We will be a banana republic at best, a fascist state at worst.

R34 - Dear Hysterical Harriet. You're right, all is lost. Best to end it now.

I'll admit it. I didn't watch the Tribe video.

But I don't need to, to know r1 is 100% correct.

Mickey and Grace say it’s not over….til it’s over!!

The "American Experiment" has issued a finding - We're Fucked.

The USA is over. Done. Finis.

In a way, it's apt that all it took to bring us down was a sordid, 4 times bankrupted, adjudicated rapist, insurrectionist who attempted to LOOT 80,0000,000 American votes and, then in a cosmic, existential joke and hoax of epic proportions, Americans put that same person back into power.

What the American voters just did was expose the reality that the USA always was a fragile thing with a soft underbelly.

Sure, we strutted our hegemonic way around the globe (and before, too) WWII, but all it took was the creation of the internet, Putin and his Russian Troll Farms when Hillary ran to be the POTUS, and Trump to bring the whole house of cards down.

Well, when Asians say, "May you live in interesting times" that has certainly been my experience.

[quote]The Constitution is not just a “remarkable piece of prose,” says Tribe, and he underscores the prominent role that state legislatures will play in resisting Trump. Civil society, like journalists and educators, will also play a crucial role in creating a cultural- political resistance to any attempts to erase democratic norms. “It’s not over,” says Tribe. “We are about to see all of the institutions activated in a way that we haven’t had to see before.”

Fat fucking chance, Laurance. You sound like my 6th grade Social Studies teacher who would trot out nonsense such as this, or that flowery quote of Churchill that “democracy is the worst form of government – except for all the others that have been tried" when he wanted to sound (rather than be) erudite.

Merely assuming that the US is great and good will do nothing, nor leaning on the insights of founding fathers. Look at where the US is. It's not on the edge of a renaissance. Quite the opposite.

R39, I think it’s denial. They’re all in denial.

It's OVER!

"The Resistance" should have gotten off their fucking asses and VOTED!

“The resistance” voted. R41.

[quote]What the American voters just did was expose the reality that the USA always was a fragile thing with a soft underbelly.

Certainly true of all democracies, which need to rely on a degree of convention and goodwill. To my mind, the US has effectively been "over" since Citizen's United and we are seeing the consequence of free and unfettered money completely manipulating the system.

There's truth, I think, to the idea that the states will become the bastions of progressive governments. Demographic shifts mean the best the Democrats can really hope for in the Senate is a slight majority (where Senators who have eked out a win in a red state will prevent any meaningful legislative change). The presidency will certainly shift back to the Democrats, but how transformative they can be with an intransigent Senate remains to be seen.

We can't afford to wait four years.

It definitely appears that we are entering the death throes of American democracy. I know sounds hysterical, but it’s just where we are right now.

It’s hard to believe. There doesn’t seem enough obvious fury to stop these maniacs. Complacency. Me too. As long as I’m reading with tv in background I can forget. And I’m afraid of being targeted. Something happened 2 years ago that threw me and I wondered about it since. It takes a lot out of me at this age to fight.

Unfortunately, R46, we'll have to wait for him to take office and start implementing his extremist agenda for people to take notice. Remember how the "Muslim ban" and the whole "kids in cages" thing went in his first administration. He'll fuck up, go too far and the misguided people who voted for him will eventually regret their decision. It will happen and the wait won't be long.

I wonder how many posters in this thread are replying to their own posts...