Couple plans to return to the US after their dream life in France became a ‘nightmare’

This lady is hilarious. I like her!

[quote] While they were relatively happy during their first few months there, Joanna was continually bewildered by the rules and regulations when dealing with seemingly simple things, such as setting up a French bank account.

[quote] The fact that she struggled to pick up the language — Ed has learned some French since they’ve been living there — didn’t help matters.

[quote] “I have been so busy packing, unpacking, assembling furniture etc. that I haven’t really found time to hunker down and start (learning French),” she admits. “It was always on my list but (I) just couldn’t find the time.”

[quote] And although France is renowned for its famous cuisine, Joanna quickly came to the realization that she wasn’t a huge fan of the food in the country.

[quote] “People go, ‘Oh my god, the French food is so fabulous,’” she says. “Yeah, if you want to eat brie, pâté, pastries and French bread all day long,” she says. “But who eats like that?”

Even the French struggle with French bureaucracy. It’s something else, it infiltrates every layer of life.

Americans always think that life is better in another country, but it never is.

The USA really is the best, easiest and most convenient place to live.

The problem is that most of us are just spoiled.

[quote]The USA really is the best, easiest and most convenient place to live.

No it’s not, ya fuckin’ goanna.

The difficulty of setting up a French bank account may be due more to US bureaucracy than to French. US reporting requirements make many non-US banks unwilling to set up accounts for US citizens.

She seems rather naive for a septuagenarian. She kept their US apartment. Why didn’t she spend three months at a time in France under a tourist visa and see it how it went.

Ils doivent mourir dans un incendie de graisse

Wah wah wah

What a pair of idiots.

France really does sound like a nightmare.

I'm totally on this lady's side.

[quote] She’d eagerly looked forward to cooking meals in France beforehand, but Joanna says that she had trouble finding quality produce to cook.

[quote] “You go to the supermarket, and the produce is terrible,” she says. “You pick up a piece of celery and it falls over. It’s so limp. So old and so horrible. Who would eat this?”

[quote] According to Joanna, her enthusiasm for living in France wavered considerably at the beginning of this year, when she and Ed tried to arrange for their car, which they’d left behind in San Francisco, to be transported to France.

[quote] “I read so many things that said, ‘Yes, do it,’ or ‘No, don’t do it. It’s a nightmare.’” says Joanna.

[quote] “Then, ‘Yes, you can do it. It’s not a problem.’ Well, it wouldn’t be a problem if their systems were consistent and made sense. But they just don’t. You can get five different answers to one simple little question.”

[quote] This frustration proved to be something of a pattern for the pair, who also had issues attempting to find a doctor in Nîmes.

[quote] “You have to find a general practitioner who will take you on as a patient,” says Joanna. “Well, we went to like six doctors. (They all said) ‘We don’t take new patients… ‘We don’t take new patients. We don’t take new patients.’

[quote] “What? ‘Where’s the list that tells you which ones do and which ones don’t?’ They don’t have that. You’ve just got to figure it out yourself.”

This is COMPLETE bullshit:

_________________

“People go, ‘Oh my god, the French food is so fabulous,’” she says. “Yeah, if you want to eat brie, pâté, pastries and French bread all day long,” she says. “But who eats like that?”

She’d eagerly looked forward to cooking meals in France beforehand, but Joanna says that she had trouble finding quality produce to cook.

“You go to the supermarket, and the produce is terrible,” she says. “You pick up a piece of celery and it falls over. It’s so limp. So old and so horrible. Who would eat this?”

________________________

She is probably shopping at some crap grocer for working class folks. All European countries have industrial food in the offer. But not only that.

A friend is a medical student in Paris. His class is constantly meeting with university administrators and protesting about the sorry state of their education.

[quote] She’d eagerly looked forward to cooking meals in France beforehand, but Joanna says that she had trouble finding quality produce to cook. “You go to the supermarket, and the produce is terrible,” she says. “You pick up a piece of celery and it falls over. It’s so limp. So old and so horrible. Who would eat this?”

Yep. My friend goes to farmers markets on weekends out of necessity, because supermarket fruits and vegetables are so bad. Like Aldi bad.

[quote] “You have to find a general practitioner who will take you on as a patient,” says Joanna. “Well, we went to like six doctors. (They all said) ‘We don’t take new patients… ‘We don’t take new patients. We don’t take new patients.’

Very real. My friend was diagnosed with a heart murmur and couldn’t find a cardiologist for 11 months. Not only that but his GP didn’t recommend anyone.

They sound insufferable.

If they had bothered to make just a few simple inquiries they would have found that few countries have a more massive bureaucracy than France. Anything dealing with the French government is made far more difficult than it has to be.

Yep, know another gay couple who sold everything they had in LA to move to Spain. Less than a year later, one of them is making boring armature YouTube videos about "what expats don't know about moving to Spain". As if everyone else is so delusional as they were. The funny part is they thought it would be a lot cheaper. That's all they talked about before they moved.

Now they realize it's only a lot cheaper if you live in the middle of nowhere. If you live in a big city, the food prices were almost the same as they paid in LA. Medical is cheaper, but bureaucracy is 3 times worse than in the U.S. Everything has a VAT tax, and Amazon is really, really expensive with import costs, customs, and other taxes.

These CNN longform articles, this one and the one about the fundie parents, are so BLOATED.

R11, do you shop at Aldi?

The produce there is quite good.

Their rent control apartment!

They sound impulsive and stupid for their age. Like they didn't do any research besides just plopping themselves into the realtor's office in Nîmes. They moved to France and expected to "make friends" but they don't speak French and never put in the time to learn?

They honestly sound like idiots. I lived in a non-English speaking European country (Netherlands) for 4 years and you can't live somewhere if you refuse to put in the effort to learn the language.

The Netherlands is also super heavy on bureaucracy and as long as you research what you need before hand and have it all ready to go - I found dealing with banks, immigration, local government etc. was very smooth and simple. These people obviously thought that because they were American they would get special treatment and the French people would speak English to them all the time.

French restaurant food often falls far below its reputation, but complaints about French supermarkets I don’t understand at all. The selection is ten times that of most US supermarkets, and I have never noted the quality problems she mentions. If she doesn’t like supermarkets, farmers’ markets are far more plentiful than in the US.

Moving to any country 1) in your 70s 2) when you don’t speak the language is going to be challenging. It’s a sign of how welcoming France actually is that she was able to function in English there. Trying surviving in the US on French alone.

Sounds like her dreams of being a septuagenarian Emily in Paris were a bust.

[quote]Sounds like her dreams of being a septuagenarian Emily in Paris were a bust.

Bang on R20.

Americans have a naive and romantic notion about France, which NEVER lives up to expectations.

We go to our local boutique wine shop and buy a $200 bottle of Cabernet along with a variety of expensive cheeses, and we imagine ourselves living in a French Chateau, sipping wine and eating brie all day long.

But when fantasy turns into reality, our dreams are often crushed.

Because the reality is that France SUCKS.

The couple is ridiculous.

Nimes France has a fabulous farmer's market and supermarket chains like Carrefour are high quality.

You can't complain about bureaucracy and the inability to make friends if you don't speak the language.

I lived nearly 4 decades in Italy. I know her type.

I have known many long term expats from the US and the UK who are so happy with their lives in Italy. Perhaps France is a more difficult nut to crack, but this lady seems clueless.

Im confused about the food issue too. Perhaps the city they chose is small and outside farmers markets they only have one grocery store?

Nevermind, sounds like R23 knows the city. Where the hell are they shopping?

Stay away from here please!

These two don't know that Europe rapidly industrialized and centralized food production over the last 25 years. So every country has several tiers of quality. But a city of 150K is large enough to have sellers of all the different tiers. In France, as in Switzerland, Germany, Netherlands, the quality food is the local/national food which is expensive, even though it is also subsidized to maintain all the agriculture and food production - old world style. So you can go to the shop for poor folks, or folks who don't care about quality, and the eggs are going to be industrial as will many of the vegetables, shipped in from the one country that is producing it. So you have to move up from industrial to better food. You can get the most sublime chicken in the world in France, but you'll pay through the nose for it.

[quote] So you can go to the shop for poor folks, or folks who don't care about quality, and the eggs are going to be industrial as will many of the vegetables, shipped in from the one country that is producing it. So you have to move up from industrial to better food. You can get the most sublime chicken in the world in France, but you'll pay through the nose for it.

This is why we have Wal-Mart in the US.

To cut through the bullshit.

Love it or hate it, Wal-Mart has good quality for low prices.

This is why so many Americans shop there.

I don't care for Walmarts produce myself. It looks gross.

They had the wealth, international travel experience and years of wisdom to know to do their research before moving yet they obviously didn't. Some people can't be helped.

I think the crux of their problem is that wherever you go in life you (unfortunately, in this case) take yourself along.

Americans are just spoiled, because we have so many more options than people in other countries.

People forget that we have the largest economy in the world, with the third most populous country in the world, behind China and India.

Of course we are going to have more choices and options for food, and doctors, and everything else, than anywhere else in the world.

There really is no comparison.

When you leave the US for another country, your choices and options will be greatly diminished.

LOL R31. You may be onto something there.

I cannot imagine moving to another country without learning the language first.

Apostrophe

This sounds like a THEM problem and not a France problem. I've shopped in France, Switzerland, Belgium and Scandinavia and French markets, even Aldi, and yes - Carrefour - are great. If she got some shitty celery that's on her for not trying that hard. Didn't have time to learn French because was unpacking/settling, FOR MONTHS? What about online programs and immersion schools? Surely the state dept might be of some help in getting her a liaison for the banking system. Or see if there is a financial advisor/power of attorney who could help that is bilingual.

Full stop.

Farms market.

Seriously R36. I studied a language with a small-class teacher for half a year just to go on an immersive 3 week vacation! And it paid off so much.

To put their complaints about medical in context, I have a friend in Lubbock, TX , just diagnosed with cancer. Finding one of the handful of Oncologists in West Texas, able to accept new patients is a real challenge. Access to medical care in non urban areas seems to be a global problem.

Non

She needs to [italic]get her knockers out [/italic]and return to that bank!

Doesn’t she know the lecherous French frog tellers are waiting for her to BLOW THEM??

I studied French through high school, college, and after. I've forgotten most of it now that I'm in my dotage but traveled in France a fair amount in my 20s and 30s.

I found that the French were much more welcoming when you started conversations in French. Although moving to France sounds so romantic, it's foolhardy to do that without studying the language first. French, and other languages, are even harder to learn the older you get. Many old brains don't have great memory retention for language. I found that out when I studied Spanish a few years ago. I got to a point where I simply could not remember new words. It shocked me. Funny thing, my French started to come back as I studied Spanish.

I read the article on CNN online and the comments were harsh. One criticism about the couple is that they sublet their rent-controlled apartment, which the commenter said was cheating the landlord. It does seem unfair. Buy a place in France while subletting a rent-controlled apartment elsewhere, especially when they planned to move to France permanently.

Learning a language n your 70s is pretty improbable so I forgive them for failing in that. But that does mean they shouldn’t have tried to live there full time. .

[quote] Of course we are going to have more choices and options for food, and doctors, and everything else, than anywhere else in the world.

Do you honestly hold this delusion? Have you ever set foot in a European grocery store? US grocery stores offer the most meagre variety of food imaginable.

[quote]Of course we are going to have more choices and options for food, and doctors, and everything else, than anywhere else in the world.

You really, really don't know what you're talking about.

They sound insufferable and living in an insufferable country.

r18 They had visited France before. So they had some familiarity. Although they should have seriously learned the language before.

I am seriously considering retiring abroad within the next 3 years. I'm down to 3 cities (Porto, Lyon and Gent). I'm fluent in French (lived there before), can get by in Dutch, and doing Duolingo Portuguese. Languages come easily to me as I have also picked Turkish and Chinese when I lived abroad previously. I would never move anywhere without having at least an A2 language level. I realize that as an American who has lived abroad and speaks multiple languages, I am in a much better position for success than these rubes in the article.

Our next plans are spending at least 2 weeks in each city with my husband and seeing how he likes each. We will try and shop in grocery stores, explore neighborhoods, take local transportation, look for physicians and specialists, etc. Try and live the life we would if we lived there.

Yes, bureaucracies can be a nightmare especially in a foreign language. You can also hire local attorneys/relocation specialists to handle the rough stuff for you (getting residence permits and visas, local IDs, negotiating rental leases, signing up for utilities, finding you an English-speaking CPA to file taxes in both home country and the US, etc).

After we decide on a city, we will live in a metropolitan area for at least a year to continue to improve language abilities and explore the region more. A smaller market town may make better sense in the long-term, but that is after we both can get by in Portuguese, French or Dutch.

R32 that's a very slanted view. In fact I benefit from such better public facilities and services, and amazing qualities of food, in Switzerland, versus USA, which in many areas feels like faded glory.

Didn't know a "relocation specialist" existed as a job.

R48. Visiting is different from staying. They should have done some long-term stays before going for a long-term visa. They could do two three-month stays in a year in vacation rentals to see what it’s really like to spend every day in a country whose language you don’t speak.

R28: You must live in the South, where produce is terrible and bakery/deli stuff isn't very good. Walmart is awful.

R51 WE CAN TELL YOU ALL WHERE TO GO.

Who are these people?

They sound like idiots. Bureaucracy is a problem in every country. There probably are any number of resources online and in print (in English) for expats in France. They exist for just about any country of any size. It doesn't sound like they found them. It sounds as though they figured they could just helicopter in and they never visited long enough to disabuse themselves of this. My sterostype of Bay area types is that of self-absorbed people who can't do anything practical and I suspect that is them.

They wanted to live in Europe full time and thought their only choices were London or some random French city of 150k. That's their main problem. London is outrageously expensive not what I'd call a typical European city. They should have tried a different city in the UK or given Ireland a shot. I also don't understand why they would need to open a French bank account or import their US car all the way to France. It seems like these two are self-sabotaging.

[wuote] Joanna says that securing a visa proved to be complicated.

What did she expect? Does she think getting a long-term visa for any country, including the US, is like buying a movie ticket?

It’s gotten challenging to get medical care in NYC. I’ve had two primary care physicians quit their practices in the last four years and wait times for initial appointments with specialists can be months long. I tried to get an appointment for an annual physical with a primary care physician I had seen once before and the wait time was over three months.

It’s probably different if you have a long standing relationship with a primary care physician. I’m actually considering trying to re-establish a relationship with a primary care physician who is outside the city. I feel like my only option if I get ill suddenly is a doc in the box or ER. I doubt the PCP I sort of have now knows who I am. Fortunately I rarely get sick, but I’m not getting any younger so it’s concerning.

If you don't speak fluent French there is zero point moving to France as the French take pride in never speaking English.

They'd have been made much more welcome somewhere like Nerja on the south coast of Spain, which is full of British ex pats, or Mallorca.

[quote] Didn't know a "relocation specialist" existed as a job.

Is that good job - relocation specialist?

I also thought it strange that they wouldn't socialize with the ex-pat community in their town. Here they are, not French and not speaking French but they're too special to hang with other ex-pats? They have probably missed out on a wealth of info that would have eased their transition.

I have a friend who permanently retired to a charming town on a lake in Mexico. Her parents had retired there first and she became fluent in Spanish. She and her partner are delightful and mingle both with locals and ex-pats. They meet interesting people from all over the world and have quite the international friend circle.

The fact that the couple in the article are such snobs shows them to be lacking in the sense and adaptability it takes to plunge into new communities.

I hope they get busted and lose their rent-controlled apartment.

I suspect there's lots of Americans who retire in Mexico and never learn Spanish. But the French are different that way - they expect you to make an effort with French. Seems reasonable to me.

Quelle surprise.

They should hang out with Kevin Sessuns!

[quote]But the French are different that way - they expect you to make an effort with French. Seems reasonable to me.

When Americans do that with English it's considered racist.

A friend moved to England and it was a problem to find a rental. You need a British bank account to rent and a place of residency to get a bank account. I offered to pay it for her but I mustn't because it's against European money laundering laws. (Just as a reminder: if you're OVER a certain threshold, a couple of million, you can transfer any money into the UK - but paying three months' rent in advance: no.) I would guesssomething like that happened. But just as a side remark: Her husband didn't speak French and wore a Hitler stache and expected people to like him? (On second look: sorry - it's just the colour that's unfortunate.)

"because supermarket fruits and vegetables are so bad. Like Aldi bad."

R11 You sound insufferable. Are you a Whole Foods ONLY shopper.

This woman sounds exhausting.

You mean France didn’t take notice and take care of these two Americans for which they anticipated everything should be about them? Quel dommage! 😢

"Purr, purr Joanna!"

She's a former healthcare exec, complaining about bureaucracy !?

Having a great vacation in France does not mean you can easily get accustomed to living there. It's a culture shock more than anything.

The term, It's a great place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there, may apply here. At least for them.

[quote] Didn't have time to learn French because was unpacking/settling, FOR MONTHS?

That part was weird. She was probably looking for decor (Live Laugh Love) for months.

They should just move back to their rent-controlled SF place.

Sounds like the husband managed to learn some French.

I wouldn't be surprised if they are close to divorce, now.

Cheese-eating surrender monkeys.

[quote] I'm fluent in French (lived there before), can get by in Dutch, and doing Duolingo Portuguese. Languages come easily to me as I have also picked Turkish and Chinese when I lived abroad previously. I would never move anywhere without having at least an A2 language level.

You sound like a pretentious, insufferable, obnoxious asshole.

Hopefully, you'll move to Europe sooner, rather than later.

Good riddance!

[italic]Au contraire[/italic], R77. I think R49 sounds fabulous.

Come sit by me.

Shockingly, the comments on CNN.com are actually more savage than here on DL.

They are getting roasted in the comments. I predict CNN will shut it down.

It is like those NYT articles of people complaining they can't find anything "livable" in the UES for under 2 million.

R79 TELL me about it!

Crossing the border into Italy after a year in Nice was such a welcome relief.

R81 Italy really is a very welcoming country to Americans.

Moving to a different culture is extremely difficult. It takes years, even a full decade, to fully adjust. Going to another country in your 70's is just crazy, you're too set in your ways and you just don't have the mental agility to learn another language and understand the culture completely at that age. And Americans don't realize how good they have it until they don't have it anymore. There's no place like home.

Plus, in your 70s, you've got medical issues.

Yes, moving abroad in your 70s is pretty stupid.

Why would they want to send over their car? For all of that cost and trouble, they could buy a used car or a rent a car.

And imagine registering it and having everything to EU norms.

[quote] armature

Oh, DEAR

Yeah, I couldn't understand wanting to ship a car to France.

Also, why not choose a place where you don't need a car? Just rent one, if you absolutely need one for the day.

Joanna needs to reestablish herself in SF among her old friends. She will need them when Ed dies. If left a widow in France she would be eaten by wolves.

I'm at A2 in French and I would never dream of moving to a French speaking country. with my poor language skills-I feel I need to be in B2 for that. I would love to move to France, but Spain seems more hospitable. But I don't want to try to learn another language in my advanced age. If I had the money to live well in SF, I would.

They really sound almost too stupid to function. Why ship a car from the US to Europe? Also there's a huge population of English-speaking Brits in that area of France. They could have got them to help them. There's also no shortage of language schools that mainly cater to English speakers in order to get them some French language proficiency.

I'm half French and grew up in the UK. While I've spent a lot of time in France and speak French, I'd never just assume you could just "turn up" and everything's going to be beautiful. Their idiocy is astonishing.

Well, the French hate everybody so I can’t imagine living there. I might move if they ban cigarettes in US.

California has 54 electoral votes.

PA has 19.

[quote] I honestly don’t think we could have put in any more effort to acclimatize to the French way of life,”

It seems they did essentially nothing.

I agree with the person who said that French food is overrated.

^ How long were you in France?

The both sound like extremely spoilt, overprivileged and lazy cretins who have had everything handed to them in their lives, and have crumbled under the pressure of dealing with merely a few inconveniences, most of which were caused by themselves.

First of all, how arrogant are they to expect to move to a country where English isn't the national language, and refuse to learn the local vernacular? Most people in France speak some English, but pretending to live full time in France without learning any French is just ridiculous. They arrived to France with an imperialistic mindset, expecting everyone to bend backward for them just because they are American, and they've just realized that nobody is willing to fawn all over them just by virtue of being American. Isn't that precious of these two? Some people are sleeping in the streets, so toughen up and deal with situations like adults, you pair of old fools.

Second, Europe has EXCELLENT produce everywhere. I am sure that you can find places that are awful, but food standards are a million times higher than in the US, and anything you can find in a supermarket is very good. If you go to a farmer's market, the quality will be even higher. It sounds like these two didn't want to make the effort of going anywhere without their car, and they've paid the consequences.

Also, they're whining because it took a lot of time for them to be able to bring their car from California? What sort of nonsense is this? Couldn't they have sold it in the US and bought something else in France? What sort of person wastes resources on something so capricious and then crumbles on the floor crying because they cannot get their car from another continent fast enough? Moreover, try to take your car to the US from another effing continent, and see how easy and fast the process is. Seriously, these two imbeciles are beyond exasperating.

Regarding their issues accessing a GP, all of Europe is defunding public healthcare because they want to privatize it, and the ones who are driving this are American insurance companies, which want to increase their power and revenue by exporting their horrible model to the EU. I have heard horror stories from the US healthcare system (long waits, people being refused treatment until they complete forms, people going bankrupt because their insurer refuses to pay for treatment), so I don't get what these two mummies are yakking about. I am sure that if you're wealthy enough you don't have to worry about anything, but the US healthcare system is nowhere near great.

And finally, they're complaining about the food? Do they realize that French people eat other things beyond pâté, baguettes, rich cheeses and elaborate dishes taken from the Escoffier and Troisgros cooking manuals? France is a multicultural, diverse and historically rich society - there are HUNDREDS of different options from which to choose every single day. Seriously, these two idiots must be the most sheltered, overpampered and weak individuals imaginable, and they have an embarrassingly parochial mindset.

I wouldn’t have thought it was possible to bring your personal automobile from one continent to another. Are the fuel formulations the same? Are parts and repairs easy to obtain? Does the car meet European emission standards?

This is one of the stupidest moves I’ve heard of. If the French government accommodated this request, that is surprisingly flexible.

I think it’s good neither achieved French proficiency. God knows what people are saying about them.

There’s much better dick in Spain.

They should have learned some French before moving and she can't find good produce? Really? Not buying it.

They "seem" like idiots?? Have you seen the photos of them? They ARE idiots.

If you wasn’t to change countries on a whim, you also probably shouldn’t have pets.

France's health care system relies on insurance, which is subsidized in various ways. Surely, a health care exec would understand how insurance works.

Beaches are much better in Spain and the sea is warmer. Set up home anywhere that Brits vacation and you'll be made welcome. Spanish people like speaking English with you.

Why did they move out of the country in the Biden administration? They should've split earlier, no?

I didn't read the article, did the car make the return journey?

r98 Give it a rest. Another reason to hate Europeans. Blaming their problems on some mythical Americanization.

[quote] “I think every married couple needs two places to live, because you’ve got to get away from each other,” adds Joanna, who previously worked as a healthcare executive.

They'll get divorced, I think.

Look at the body language (hands) in the photo at OP. They don't really want to touch each other.

I'm guessing that she has more money than he has. She will kick him to the curb.

Like most people, the best produce is in farmers markets-- not supermarkets. I have an acquaintance who has been living in France for awhile, she also doesn't like the food. Food is fresher, but the actual cuisine is mediocre and repetitive.

r98 don't you have an editor

Tomorrow’s headline:

“Couple plans to return to France after life in the U.S. became a nightmare”

I'm taking applications, R110. Judging by the fact that you don't know how to properly punctuate, I will be forced to reject yours. Good luck in all your future endeavours! I hope that you learn to write at some point in the future, as it will improve your professional prospects.

R107, if all it takes to wound your little national pride is stating a few facts, all I can say is that I feel sorry for you. I guess that this is yet another reason to look down on petulant, incongruously arrogant, functionally illiterate Americans. By the way, you shithead: Europe has many nationalities, cultures and languages. We "Europeans" are not a homogeneous mass of people.

You're an example of why these two decrepit old idiots have made a complete embarrassment out of themselves by whining over quotidian inconveniences, like a pair of spoilt little children.

Get a blog R112, R98.

They're not shopping for groceries properly or they're accustomed to overly engineered American produce. They did nothing to learn French. The French hate that. They said people are pleasant enough.. Nîmes is not a big city or international center. I can't imagine making friends there in my 70s with no French language skills.

They said their return would be decided after the election. After tonight, if I were them I'd stay in Europe but will anywhere be safe any more?

If they had multiple houses between them in the Bay Area, they certainly had the resources to hire fixers for all their bureaucratic needs. You can go to immigration attorneys or expat relo specialists who can guide you through the bureaucracy step by step. They know the tricks and pitfalls and often have relationships with the bureaucrats. DIY immigration is nuts.

Having little language skills is obviously a hurdle but not insurmountable, but on the other hand, the processes can be difficult in Anglosphere countries as well. Bureaucracy is bureaucracy, I permanently moved from the USA in my 30s and felt I was almost too old. I’ve lived in France and the UK. I can’t imagine immigrating to France DIY in my 70s. They should have just done the ‘faux-pat’ thing. I have a retired friend from SF who lives the max allowable time in London per year in shirt term lets. He experiences life here on his American passport and without moving all his finances and legalities. It’s the more sensible approach than completely uprooting. You do need special long term travel insurance, but otherwise it seems fairly straightforward.

[quote]Didn't know a "relocation specialist" existed as a job.

Unfortunately it does, R51. "American expats in..." online groups are proliferating with Americans who are planning "scouting expeditions" to find their new home city in a country they have never so much as visited before. And they want to bring two parents in the 80s with significant mobility issues and children with various psychiatric diagnoses and learning disabilities, oh, and two lovably rambunctious Great Danes with extreme allergies.

Planning their "campaign" of ticking off 15 cities in 12 days like a military operation, looking for their "perfect match" city that feels exactly right, shocked that the public schools lack special programs for American expat children who, like their parents, don't speak a word of the language. They want a relocation agent to rent or buy an apartment because 4 hours in the city they fell on love with were not enough to conquer the ins and outs of the local real estate market, and because they are convinced the price for Americans is inflated. They want someone (with faultless English) to orchestrate the delivery of shipping crates of huge American furniture that will not fit in their new home, to arrange private van transfers to deliver from the airport the whole family --and the dogs!-- to their new life....to arrange 1000 details for a seamless transition to a country that shockingly doesn't roll out a red carpet to another group of clueless Americans moving on a whim and expecting to be treated like a 1950s Fortune 100 CEO relocation.

[quote]Americans are just spoiled, because we have so many more options than people in other countries.

[quote]Of course we are going to have more choices and options for food, and doctors, and everything else, than anywhere else in the world.

[quote]There really is no comparison.

[quote]When you leave the US for another country, your choices and options will be greatly diminished.

Weep for the poor primitives in other countries, R32.

I thought the article was badly written. Or maybe I find it hard to believe anyone could be that stupid. They’d been living in London and already spent months in Nimes before moving there so there was some experience. She said the people were friendly. The limp celery quote was bizarre, even a tourist fresh off the plane knows about weekly markets and Nimes has a covered daily market. What was the reason for importing their car vs buying new/used? The writer doesn’t say. Did they apply for a VLS-TS visa before arriving? The writer doesn’t say. Finding a doctor was the only valid complaint but did they have immediate medical concerns? Learning French, well she’d never be fluent but the translate apps are really advanced nowadays. The article had a lot of gaps but it’s easier to frame it as delusional Americans.

Agreed, R119, the article was badly written and would have been much more credible had the author dogged the subjects for some explanation of some of their odd choices. But I believe the couple were exactly that fucking stupid.

Like too many English-speaking immigrants to Europe, I believe they sought affirmation, the way American tourists often seek acknowledgement as though they had some something special for the country they visit (think Carnegie and his libraries in the States, or those GIs at the end of WWII doling out chocolate bars to children. from the back of a Jeep.) They wanted to feel a little special, as though their mere presence was an act of philanthropy. They thought not speaking French would merely be a point of lightly amusing tales, not something that would effectively isolate them from the everyday life they sought to join. A bright and cheery 'Bonjour!' on entering a shop isn't always sufficient to fit in seamlessly and be the talk of the town and those posh Americans who moved in and made such a beautiful garden.

They wanted everyone to bend over backwards offering to help them with the mundane things of everyday and the frustrating in any country need to register and enroll and apply for various things.

They brought over their car because that's what Americans do. Import a monster pickup truck for the US because it's a recent model with limited mileage and will need a couple thousand Euros in modifications and many more thousands in import fees? Shit yeah! The better to drive through some tiny village or pueblo and show them who you are; the better to drive to Costco to load up on super bulk packages of buerre de cacahuète and those big bundles of 36 rolls of Bounty Select-a-Size paper towels and the special toilet paper they like. Too many Americans don't actually want to move to another country because they want to fit in, they move because they want to stand out, and complain bitterly when they can't find they favorite packaged bread stuffing mix for Thanskgiving dinner, or when they find they can't buy Ibuprofin capsules by the thousands but only in small packages of 12 and only after speaking with a pharmacist.

A lot of Americans and Brits move to (Continental) Europe because it seems cheaper, or the sun, or the food, or the people they find so charmingly quaint. In the end, they find themselves lonely and 'homesick' for a place they never stopped thinking of as home, Rather than adapt, they resent every tiny 'inconvenience' as if it existed only to ruin their ill-conceived dream.

If they've got any brains left they'd better keep their asses in France. The French bureaucracy will probably seem like a cake walk before long.

R120 pretty much sums up a lot of expats in many places. I traveled through some expat destinations in Central America and there were lots of sad looking Americans who clearly lived there. When I lived in Thailand, a good place to visit was one that was said to have very few fat, grey-faced, depressed Europeans hanging around.

They should stay put. Who would want to MOVE to Trump's America?

What a stupid bitch is this woman. Note that there is not one quote from the husband.

When you move at such a late age you also gave the risk your spouse will die. If she feels isolated now, how would she feel as a widow in France?

Guess what, given the choice of living with soft green peppers or rotting pumpkin, we've decided to stay!

"Non, vous changez. Je suis américain." That's our new motto!

Love,

Joanna and Ed

If they’re unhappy, move back. They tried their adventure, and it’s ok. It’s a revolving door of Americans where I live.. Over my decades here I can’t tell you how many other Americans I knew who proclaimed they were ‘here for life’ are now long gone. Most are gone by year three. I don’t fault them, at least they tried to follow a dream. It just doesn’t always work out for a variety of reasons including everything from ‘Eat, Pray, Hate’, to family obligations with ageing parents, to relationship break-up, to career prospects. Moving p, especially to a new country and culture, is a life stressor, and many have mental health problems. People often think it’s going to give them a shiny new life, and it falls short. This is the dark side of ‘Emily in Paris’ but with SSRIs. Expat groups are filled with many sad stories.

I thought about doing a partial retirement overseas, in a country where I'd already lived. I expected it would last as long as people came to visit and my health and mobility were in good shape, but then I decided to continue working. Now, even though I'm in good health, I'm not so sure I'd do it, partly because I have family responsibilities and fewer people I know overseas are still around. You can't do this sort of thing on a whim, unless you are extremely adaptable and these people are at the wrong polar end of that.

"If she feels isolated now, how would she feel as a widow in France?"

Especially as a widow who doesn't speak a word of French because she was so busy assembling Ikea furniture for years.

Yes, R129, "Where does the time go?!'

[quote]But they say they feel pretty resigned to the notion that they’ll likely be returning home in the not-too-distant future.

As an American living in Europe for years, the best thing to do is walk away when a fellow immigrant refers to his home in the present tense as the country he emigrated from (exceptions for the freshly arrived and those whose immigrant status is on temporary basis.) They will bore you to tears with comparisons in a search for co-conspirators until you want to smack them as say, 'Just leave if it's a fucking hardship for hyou, if everything is better in your eyes in the place where you no longer live.' Why spend years --or in the case of these two, months-- making which place is better comparisons? The British can be whiny about missing food dishes and products from the UK, but Americans seem to have a gene that requires them to rank everything as if it were a contest, a tallying up that always serves a bigger agenda.

[quote]Americans seem to have a gene that requires them to rank everything as if it were a contest, a tallying up that always serves a bigger agenda.

It's the whole greatest nation on earth bullshit. The myth is in your DNA. You think the world revolves around you. Yes, you have much, but no one thinks they're your servant.

[quote] The article had a lot of gaps but it’s easier to frame it as delusional Americans.

I agree it’s not well written, but they are delusional Americans. There is no context in which importing a car makes sense. There is no context in which it is reasonable to expect obtaining a long-stay visa or bringing in a pet to be easy. There is no context in which you expect an active social life if you can’t communicate with the people around you and you prioritise decorating over learning the local language.

Yeah - let's ship the car across the country and then across the Atlantic. That's gotta be cheaper than the dealer in town.

Why didn't they just buy an apartment in France and go there when they felt like. SF and Nice, for example.