Anne Applebaum nails why people vote for Trump.

Wow, she’s so profound.

Thanks for the link, OP. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

Three reasons:

1. Old-fashioned racism

2. They are a single issue voter, lower taxes at all costs

3. Painfully gullible about “build the wall”. Some people will buy any lie

Sorry R3, it's just the racism.

People who think they're going to get lower taxes are just as easily fooled as those waiting for the wall to be built. They are the people who believe that China will just eat all those "beautiful tariffs." They are the ones easily led by the nose to conclude that Ukraine really ought to be returned to Russia, and while we're at it, women really DON'T want control over their own bodies.

But even stupid people have some self-awareness. I bet if asked, at least half of his supporters would admit they're not geniuses, they just "have a feeling" or "know enough." The salve to ease their uneasiness about being less-than-smart? Simple, pure racism. As long as there is some worthless Mexican, or thuggish Black, or evil Chinese person crafting the next super-virus, then these simple, mouth-breathing, knee-jerk reacting "'Muricans" can keep pasting flag images over their trucks, going to their mega churches and spewing hatred. Talk about permission structure!

The icing on the cake? Watching Alex Wagner interview some of these people last night including a Guatemalan-American who immigrated here "30 years ago." This person said that the immigrants coming today aren't the same as him, they were "more violent, more criminal." Cubans are especially prone to this kind of "I got mine, good luck getting yours. And oh yeah, fuck you!" mentality. Everyone is a little bit racist, I mean... look here on Datalounge for fuck's sake! But I would bet that the majority of us here want the best these people can achieve for themselves and are generous to the degree that we each can be.

I think they like a loud-mouth short-fingered vulgarian clown who will do their bullying for them. Seriously.

R4, the way you explain it - and I agree with you - doesn't sound like racism though. It sounds like sheer envy and fear of loss. I can see racism (or xenophobia) in a way that people say: Immigrants and refugees are welcome as long as they don't threaten my well-being, and as long as I can keep all my privileges." To me this also explains why Anything-but-Democrats is a viable voting point for even the less enthusiastic Trump voter. Democrats are not seen as the party of opportunity. They are still seen as the party that hands out "my hard earned money to un-deserving people".

In the final analysis or bottom line, it REALLY is about racism, bigotry and xenophobia.

Some will deny it until their dying day, and I cannot say I blame them for doing so. They’re terrified of admitting they’re not as wonderful and as victimized as they claim to be, especially for those over the age of 50.

The idea that others want to hold them accountable as to why they support some of the worst parts of what makes being a human being difficult for others who are targeted by them and their party enrages them or scares them.

That’s all it is.

Decent folks want nothing to do with this man as their president regardless of their party allegiance, so if you know people who are voting for Trump, please understand that there’s some unrecognized and unhealed damage inside that person, and if you love them? Just don’t discuss politics because you will not change them or even help them. If you have wondered whether or not you want to remain in their lives due to the differences of opinion and the rancor it brews? Perhaps it’s time to let them go.

He’s a demagogue. What does a demagogue do?

They identify what most bothers and angers the lowest-information group in the country. Then they endlessly flatter that group by telling them they’re the greatest thing since sliced bread, and it’s very unfair how they’re being treated.

Then they identify a scapegoat they can blame for it all. This scapegoat is not the real cause but that doesn’t matter.

So they relentlessly flatter the uneducated and at the same time play on their fears. If you do this, they will blindly follow you to the end.

Many demagogues have risen to power this way in the past. Their followers are so stupid they’re basically immune to common sense, to being reasoned with.

And here we are.

Firstly, most people aren't left wing. And most are not socially progressive, or they have limits - for example, they may not have any issues with gays and lesbians, but dislike transgender activism.

To understand Trump's appeal, look at Western and Eastern Europe. Populist right parties are in government across Europe.

The AfD are winning unprecedented support in Germany. Biden and Zelensky blew up the Nordstream 2 gas pipeline that Germany co-owned with Russia, critical German infrastructure, causing huge energy price rises in Germany and beyond, destabilising the country. That was Germany's reward for giving Ukraine billions of euros of arms. They've now reduced the support to almost zero. Biden's behaviour to Germany has been disgraceful.

Poland and Sweden and Finland are on a war footing. Poland is right-wing, and anti-abortion. It's new Prime Minister is an establishment European Union bureaucrat - Donald Tusk. Guess what? He's just suspended the right to asylum in Poland. So that's Poland, withdrawing from international legal convention, because Russia is working with its client militia and despots in failed African States and in former Soviet States to promote migrancy into Poland.

TLDR: Europe is at war, and the US is in a proxy war with Russia, North Korea, and Iran. Most voters will not vote for a woman President at this time.

R9, meet r8. Rightwing populism in Europe is scapegoating immigrants to rise to power. It’s working.

Wrong. They vote for Trump because he hates the same people they do.

R11, 'they' vote with Trump 'cos he's told them who to hate I think you'll find. (Remembering it's a cult)

Exactly r12.

The fact that Trump is a dimwitted racist doesn’t hurt, but he has scapegoated people that poor while already were suspicious of.

^^^ poor whites

R12 you underestime the innate hatred of most average humans. Look at your own families. Remember it was always there.

To dismiss the Trump voter as a stupid culty ignoramus who will do whatever "dear leader" tells them is an elitist conceit. Had an educated intelligent aquintance (holds two masters degrees) tell me "He's a dirtbag but he's our dirtbag". You are who you vote for.

R16 can’t deal with reality.

Lower taxes for RICH people and CORPORATIONS.

NOT for any of these toothless rubes.

MY goddamn taxes went UP under that cunt so he, smarmy Jimmy, Opus Dei and that whole fucking kkklan of kkkunts can just take the express hand basket to hell with a side of napalm.

R16, sorry but your "educated intelligent acquaintance" is "a stupid culty ignoramus who will do whatever "dear leader" tells them."

The racism and the xenophobia are a big part of it but I think Trump has been able to connect with men (and the women who love them) and people with traditional values in ways that the Dems have not.

It's:

#1. Racism.

#2. Sexism.

#3. Misogyny.

“ they may not have any issues with gays and lesbians…”

They may not have issues NOW but guaranteed 20 years ago they did. Their views changed so incrementally they didn’t notice/won’t remember. They now know some out gay, work with him, cousin came out, or maybe he’s their dentist and “he’s ok”. So they’ve moved on to the new phobia.

R3 That is overly simplistic and minimizes the cultural war we are in right now. Both sides are fighting a cultural war, except those on the left support policies have been proven to work. But this cultural war is fueled by misinformation and also inane dysfunctional liberal policies at the local level. It needs to stop. The reason why I say r3 is overly simplistic because it doesn’t explain all the young millenial and Gen z males planning to vote for Trump. They aren’t racist. Many only listen to hip hop with a plethora of black friends.

Nah - the real reason is that they've been fed a pack of lies for DECADES.

To admit they were wrong about Trump means that so many of their arguments with their families and co-workers and neighbors were for nothing and that they made an ass of themselves.

They just don't want to admit they were conned - it's that simple. That's why they refuse to look at facts and evidence.

To be honest, it is a cult. It is EXACTLY a nationwide cult. Trump is charasmatic like a cult leader with Fox news his deacon board. You have a lot of people who think they aren't being seen for whatever who feel "SEEN" finally. They cast themselves as outsiders and Fox and Trump meet them at that level. It's a very slippery slope but I have seen it happen time and time again.

It has nothing to do with intelligence, because I know smart people who have fallen for it. It is always starts with, "He's not my guy, but..." and before you know it they are diehard fans. FOX will say we are the only ones with the truth over and over again. You watch the channel and you feel this is the only place the truth is being said and everyone else is lying to me.

So like a cult, they separate people from reality, friends and family with them being the only source of truth and wisdom. You don't need the outside world, because they don't get us and they don't like you. But we get you. It is a fucking cult. And it defies logic, that is why logic will never win with them. I don't know what will. Whatever it takes to deprogram someone from a cult.

There are multiple segments of Trump supporters and not all are racist, white, or male. The more pertinent characteristics are stupid, greedy, or hateful. You won’t find a Trump voter who isn’t in one or more of those bind.

“I like his policies!” 🤡

[Quote] [R12] you underestime the innate hatred of most average humans

Well most humans, particularly uneducated ones, can go either way.

We are tribal creatures and are prone to fear and mistrust anyone who looks and/or acts differently. But that doesn’t have to translate into hatred.

But someone like Trump will take that mistrust and use it for scapegoating purposes. Who’s a better scapegoat than someone you’re already suspicious of?

These same poor whites might have initial anxiety about the Mexican boyfriend their daughter brings home, but familiarity will make the family more affectionate toward the boy.

What a demagogue does is bring uneducated people to the low road, urging the poor to blame, hate and fear people who are different.

Case in point would be Jews in Germany in the 20s-30s. There was some antisemitism but also many people interacted on a very friendly basis with their Jewish neighbors. But then along came Hitler.

R9 is Jill Stein.

Ukraine is saving Europe from fascist Russia dipshit. Take your "proxy war" bullshit to Glenn Greenwald's twitter account.

All Trump offers is white supremacy.

Whites are terrified that brown people are making power gains in the US

It is absolutely about racism. Racism and herd mentality, social pressure within their peer group and wanting to belong.

Trump has promised his supporters that he’s going to DEPORT 12M PEOPLE. Putting aside how crazy and impossible this is, think of the kind person this would satisfy - a very cruel, sad, stupid person who needs to fantasise about this to make themselves feel superior and powerful. That’s who these people are. Cruel, pathetic racists.

There are not the resources available to do this either proficiently - verifying illegal status and arranging extradition to another country, with appeals that could take years - or efficiently - the physical job of actually arresting, detaining, trying and deporting people on such a mass scale, let alone 12M people. So any attempt to do this would be absolute theatre and some of the people who actually voted for it, Latinos or Cubans, could actually get caught up on this exodus and find that none of their rights are being acknowledged. They are just a brown body required to quel the MAGA masses, etc. It’s appalling to think about and yet some people think it’s a positive thing, good for the country to tear families apart and decimate lives. That’s racism. Racism and sadism.

R24 That part too.

You can blame racism all you want but you’re going to be surprised when Trump does better with black voters than he did in 2016. If anything his share of the white vote is declining.

As far as xenophobia goes, he is doing better in Arizona and Nevada because he’s getting more of the Hispanic vote than any Republican ever has.

R33 100% correct. “Old old”white people and white women of all ages are truly going to be the saving grace this election. Harris will on.

R33 you are all over the political threads jazzing for your beloved leader. Nothing grosser than a right wing gay person.

I am r33 and I hate Trump. I just don’t think his appeal is all based on racism.

If Trump gets elected it will be because of white people and in particular white men. Don't blame minorities.

These fucking Mexicans out here in the Southwest love Trump unless they are just like uber educated or super morally righteous. Democrats need to stop lax immigration. Them stupid ass Mexicans come here illegally, have their little home improvement business and vote Republican to avoid taxes. And some of them are racists. It doesn’t win votes. Drop it.

And no I’m not saying most chicanos are illegals. I’m being real.

Another reason why the polls are so close is because Trump is doing better as a whole with all the minority groups when you add them all up. That’s why I keep spouting that Trump’s 10-13% support from black males is NOT unimportant. Trump is doing better with minorities than repubs usually do. All the fucking Filipinos, Mexicans, southern blacks. He doesn’t have the majority of their support but a significant one.

Just vote. Kamala will win.

r36, the ONLY other thing he has to stand on is he will lower taxes (mainly on billionaires) but so will harris, so what ever your point is, they are fools

He is not physically attractive or "charismactic" in anyway . These hateful Morlochs would vote for a pile of shit if he reinforced their bigotry and they have. Repeatedly.

[quote] but I think Trump has been able to connect with men (and the women who love them) and people with traditional values in ways that the Dems have not.

I guess grabbing “ ‘em by the pussy” has its usefulness after all!

Surely people who come here illegally cannot vote for a long ass time, if ever. It look my Canadian neighbor 19 years to become a citizen and he came here legally.

Latinos becoming evangelical seems to have a major impact on their voting in the SW. Also being 2nd or 3rd gen which many voting for Trump are.

I will grant that some immigrants who own stores in Trump areas put Trump signs and flags in the window to appease the locals and assimilate. Oy! But at least they cannot vote.

[quote] men (and the women who love them)

How sexist. He’s losing women by a wide margin. The women who support him were raised in the same environment as their husbands with the same religion and moral formation (or lack thereof). That’s why they support the tangerine dump. Not because they are passively following their husband. However, this year, there will be millions of households where the wife votes for Harris and the husband for Trump because the wife has had sufficient because she had more to lose - such as her life to sepsis while the doctors twiddle their thumbs.

They vote for them because Trump is so much like Jesus Christ. He's always saying the same things that Christ said. You know, like:

Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone.

For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and everyone who humbles himself will be humbled.

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you.

But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back.

Do not judge, so that you may not be judged.

Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Kidding! I'm not religious but believe in equality and compassion. Those who vote for trump would hire Satan to run their churches.

R9, all well and good but trumpers are voting for a rapist, abuser, and predator. Has nothing to do with left or middle or rational intelligence and everything to do with hateful, racist, misogyny.

R45 Don’t ever use Trump and Jesus in the same sentence again.

Are you a Christian, Teacake R47?

R47 yes very much so.

There is an element of Trump supporters who are not as you describe, and just get sucked in as I stated R25. Oddly enough they seem to be children of the 60s who are in their 70s, early 80s now and seeing an America that looks different than what they remember. And it scares them.

My mom is black woman, educated with a law degree. In the 80s she was even a part of Jessie Jackson's rainbow coalition. But within the family she has always seen herself as the outsider. She has been single ever since my parents divorced when I was little. And in the last ten years, watching FOX News, she has slipped into a cult like persona. Even though she says she is objective, Trump can do absolutely no wrong in her eyes. It defies reason and all logic. And now it's an "Us against them" mentality where to concede anything would mean giving up everything. And I must say since covid and spending time at home watching nothing but FOX, my husband's mom has become the same. It's a drug, and they need their daily hit of what FOX gives them.

R50 Question: was your dad’s family liberal. And when I say liberal, I mean just regular American democrats. It sounds like your mom internalized some type of complex and it affected her worldview in a pathological way. Was she shunned by blacks for marrying white?

[quote] America that looks different than what they remember. And it scares them.

That's been my impression of the over 70 MAGAts too. It's sad because most are quite well off. They had a good public education, college didn't cost as much as a house, they were homeowners in their 20s, final salary pensions, contraception was available freely, a working class person would live in major cities etc They are scared shitless by Fox who tells them that young people and brown people and uppity women are ruining everything. When in reality they are the most fortunate humans ever to live imo. Think about other countries in the 60s-70s when they were in their prime. Where was better - Europe? Nope. Australia? Nope. Japan? Nope.

The level of political polarization by 2016 was the opportunity for this huckster to emerge. Neither political party was listening to nor addressing the very real problems people faced in their lives. Political polarization has deepened since then.

Political affiliation has replaced religion as the locus of people's beliefs. They view their politics and that of the opposition in Manichean dualities.

This political polarization has forced many to lose faith in liberal democratic governance. They look to a savior who will restore law and order and provide a hopeful future. And they are willing to resort to violence as a means to their ends.

Rather than providing solutions to the complex realities that have uprooted their lives, people look for a Boogeyman who is the cause of their misfortune. Their savior has stoked their ignorance and fear into hatred of migrants from the global south, those who transgress their sexual and gendered norms, the so-called elites, and political opponents.

Rather than cherishing and upholding the rule of law, the democratic process, and individual rights and liberties, they look to a strongman to restore law, order, and prosperity. That is their priority.

This is how fascism comes to power.

Vapid and trite observation from Anne Random.

Trump has been a successful president and presidential candidate.

His role is to restore white supremacy as the default.

He has no previous experience in public service nor military service. He disparage the military.

He was born to wealth and blew through his fortune several times over, ask Mel why she won't campaign with him.

He has three baby mamas and one of them he had buried in a golf course located in New Jersey.

He recorded boasting of assaulting women and has been found liable rape and defaming his victim.

He was a close association and frequent guest of Jeffrey Epstein.

It's not coincidence orange replaced President Obama.

Orange role, which he has successfully fulfilled, is to reinforce true American values: the lowest white is worth more than the highest achieving, most accomplished black.

Trump has been a successful president and presidential candidate.

His role is to restore white supremacy as the default.

He has no previous experience in public service nor military service, he disparages the military.

He was born to wealth and blew through his fortune several times over, ask Mel why she won't campaign with him.

He has three baby mamas and one of them he had buried in a golf course located in New Jersey.

He was recorded boasting of assaulting women and has been found liable rape and defaming his victim.

He was a close associate and frequent guest of Jeffrey Epstein.

It's not coincidence orange replaced President Obama.

Orange role, which he has successfully fulfilled, is to reinforce true American values: the lowest white is worth more than the highest achieving, most accomplished black.

^ Musk tweeted out that Kamala’s celeb supporters were on the Epstein/Diddy lists. Such projection and distraction. Springsteen and Eminem were nowhere near either but we have photographs of Trump! Don’t believe your lying eyes, believe us. It’s such a cult that l wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some mass suicide event before Trump kicks the bucket.

Names are to be unsealed from a lawsuit filed by Virginia Giuffre, an alleged trafficking victim, against Epstein's former girlfriend, Ghislaine Maxwell. Giuffre alleges that Maxwell arranged for the then 17-year-old to have sex with Epstein and other prominent men, including Prince Andrew. Andrew has denied the allegations and settled with Giuffre out of court in February 2022.

Among those already associated with the late financier is Donald Trump who, according to one political commentator, is said to have previously called Epstein, who was later to become a convicted sex offender, a "terrific guy."

I look forward to a flavor-aid event within the maga cult.

R51 It's baaaack

I disagree, R22.

I regularly follow stories that have the possibility of effecting culture, in order to find upcoming “cracks” in the political landscape & its veneer. I read comments regularly wherever these stories are platformed.

The Sean Combs & Mike Jeffries developments have revealed plenty of opinions by MANY who are now turning on the LGBTQ community, claiming they were sold a bill of goods under the premise of equal rights and gay marriage. They are beginning to express the same shit they expressed way back when: Homosexuals are sexual deviants who are coming for America’s children.

If Trump wins, be on the lookout for “in your face” virulent homophobia. It has a stronghold in many parts of Europe thanks to Putin, and it is about to blatantly resurface in the United States. This is how they worm their way into the African American communities, as well as other communities of folks who identify as culturally traditional, due to religious beliefs.

It’s ALL coming back around, and in all honesty, who the fuck is daft enough to believe that “it” ever left?