Hello and thank you for being a DL contributor. We are changing the login scheme for contributors for simpler login and to better support using multiple devices. Please click here to update your account with a username and password.

Hello. Some features on this site require registration. Please click here to register for free.

Hello and thank you for registering. Please complete the process by verifying your email address. If you can't find the email you can resend it here.

Hello. Some features on this site require a subscription. Please click here to get full access and no ads for $1.99 or less per month.

Polls show an election that could be the 'closest since Bush v. Gore'

James Carville was on the Upper East Side of Manhattan recently when he kept being stopped by anxious New Yorkers begging the famed Cajun political sage for some kind of guidance about how the November election would turn out.

He had nothing for them.

“They firmly believed that I had some kind of secret knowledge,” said the veteran Democratic strategist. “It’s the hardest thing in the world to tell someone who thinks you’re omnipotent that you’re really not.”

The tough-to-swallow truth for anxious voters of all stripes is that no one can predict the future, especially in an election that right now feels like the closest in most Americans’ lifetimes, though the outcome could end up more definitive.

Just weeks before Election Day, the race between Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump is deadlocked, with polls showing razor-thin margins in key battlegrounds and nationally.

“The polls — public and private — are closer in this election than any I have ever seen,” said Dan Pfeiffer, a former aide to Barack Obama. “Everything is within the margin of error, so we are at a point where polls are incapable of giving you much information about which way the horse race is trending.”

NBC News’ latest poll shows the race split exactly 48%-48% — a “dead heat,” according to pollster Jeff Horwitt, a Democrat who conducted the survey with Republican pollster Bill McInturff.

And the story is the same in other polls and polling averages, with Quinnipiac University pollster Tim Malloy saying the race “can’t get much closer.”

After polling misses in recent elections, few analysts today are willing to stake a bet. And there is zero expert consensus about the outcome, let alone the kind of consensus view that defined the final days of the last four presidential campaigns — in large part because much of that conventional wisdom ended up proven wrong.

A whole industry has emerged to parse the data and filter it through complex probabilistic mathematical formulas. But in a country balanced on a pencil tip, able to fall any direction with a proverbial gust of wind, all the data in the world still has analysts searching for synonyms for “toss-up.”

“It’s now literally 50/50,” Nate Silver wrote on X Tuesday. Republican pollster Frank Luntz summed up the election with a single gif: A coin flip.

The dynamic has Republican strategist Matt Gorman looking back to the 2000 election, which essentially came down to 537 votes in Florida and an overtime legal fight that went all the way to the Supreme Court.

“It’s going to be the closest since Bush v. Gore,” said Gorman, noting the likelihood of similar post-election legal fights. “There’s just so much more likelihood and political incentive for either side to drag this out.”

“Hope you’re ready to be eating turkey in Erie County!” he joked about journalists and campaign operatives decamping to the northwestern Pennsylvania battleground to watch ballots be counted during Thanksgiving.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 322October 21, 2024 11:34 PM

le snore

by Anonymousreply 1October 19, 2024 4:11 PM

I like the ending of the article better, and I hope it turns out to be true:

[quote] “This race is remarkable for its closeness but also the insane stability of polls here in the closing weeks,” said Republican pollster Kristen Soltis Anderson. “This race just doesn’t seem to budge.”

[quote] But even as tight as the race looks now, none of that necessarily means the final result will look like today’s razor’s-edge polling. With the electorate teetering in either direction and the magnifying effect of the Electoral College, everything from a decisive Harris victory to a large Trump win is possible.

[quote] “I believe the polling that’s it nip and tuck right now,” said Carville, “but I don’t think it’s going to end up that way.”

[quote] He, and some others — but not all — think it’s more likely that seven battleground states mostly break in one direction or the other: “The most unlikely scenario to me is they break 4-3.”

[quote] But that answer doesn’t satisfy the anxious Manhattan liberals he encountered the other day. So he offers something else: “The Democrats have not lost a single election since the summer of 2022.”

[quote] “I don’t know what that means,” he said. “But it’s gotta mean something.”

by Anonymousreply 2October 19, 2024 4:13 PM

Outside of Gen Z males, and racist whites I don’t see how any competent adult can walk in that voting booth and bubble a dot next to Trump/Vance. America is mind blowing.

by Anonymousreply 3October 19, 2024 4:30 PM

Anybody who thinks they're going to wake up Wednesday morning, November 6th 2024 and think we have a new president is delusional.

We'll be lucky if we know the outcome of the election by Christmas.

by Anonymousreply 4October 19, 2024 4:31 PM

The EC vote takes place mid-December, so it definitely won't take until Christmas. I think we'll know by the end of Wednesday. Fewer mail-in ballots this time around, which is why it took so long last time.

by Anonymousreply 5October 19, 2024 4:40 PM

[quote]James Carville was on the Upper East Side of Manhattan recently when he kept being stopped by anxious New Yorkers begging the famed Cajun political sage for some kind of guidance about how the November election would turn out.

If find it impossible to believe that even one person would ask a backwoods buffoon like Carville for guidance on anything.

by Anonymousreply 6October 19, 2024 4:42 PM

With all of the effort Harris has put into this, from the successful Convention, the great debate performance, the shrewd social media blitz, it's amazing that she's only tied with Trump in the polls.

Remember a couple of months ago when this map was decidedly in her favor?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 7October 19, 2024 4:42 PM

Harris by 82 electoral votes and 10-14 million popular votes.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 8October 19, 2024 4:42 PM

[quote]Anybody who thinks they're going to wake up Wednesday morning, November 6th 2024 and think we have a new president is delusional.

True, since the term of the new president will not begin until January 20th.

by Anonymousreply 9October 19, 2024 4:43 PM

Never underestimate the power of misogyny. I made that mistake once.

by Anonymousreply 10October 19, 2024 5:03 PM

Polls schmolls, polls are wrong more than they're right.

by Anonymousreply 11October 19, 2024 5:07 PM

It's going to be Harris by a near landslide.

by Anonymousreply 12October 19, 2024 5:16 PM

I was reading an interesting piece online the other day saying the dems might take Ohio

by Anonymousreply 13October 19, 2024 5:17 PM

R13 back when I was in high school in the mid aughts it was commonly regarded that if you win Ohio, you win the presidency. That changed with Obama.

by Anonymousreply 14October 19, 2024 5:24 PM

R12, from your lips to God’s ear!

by Anonymousreply 15October 19, 2024 5:26 PM

Polls are limited with regard of what they can capture in an obvious turnout election. You'd be better off looking at trends: voter enthusiasm etc. and who has the best ground game.

Harris does

by Anonymousreply 16October 19, 2024 5:28 PM

[QUOTE] If find it impossible to believe that even one person would ask a backwoods buffoon like Carville for guidance on anything.

Something tells me that you say that about anyone with a Southern accent.

by Anonymousreply 17October 19, 2024 5:41 PM

Carville? Smart as a whip. Smarter than the people who let a rednecky-sounding accent fool them into thinking otherwise.

by Anonymousreply 18October 19, 2024 5:44 PM

People hear a southern accent and think the person cannot be smart. Black people do it too in regards to be slow witted or not street smart. Don’t underestimate that southern accent. They are just as intelligent as anyone else.

by Anonymousreply 19October 19, 2024 5:48 PM

R4, we don’t have a new president until January.

by Anonymousreply 20October 19, 2024 5:50 PM

Carville has been wrong for decades. He’s completely irrelevant and doesn’t even know where he is.

by Anonymousreply 21October 19, 2024 5:51 PM

Datalounge still hasn’t come to grips with how historically unpopular Biden is. That’s what’s hurting Kamala the most.

by Anonymousreply 22October 19, 2024 5:52 PM

Try again, dear/R22.

Can we get better trolls?

by Anonymousreply 23October 19, 2024 5:55 PM

R22 is right. He’s not trolling. Listen, the economy is doing good but people perceptions are different. For one everything is so motherfucking high even though the job market is good. And then Biden presented as weak and sort of mentally out of it; Americans are just so fucking basic they can disconnect that from inflation. Once you create a brand, good or bad, it’s hard to alter it. It can be done but it’s difficult.

by Anonymousreply 24October 19, 2024 5:59 PM

[QUOTE] Listen, the economy is doing good

Oh, dear.

by Anonymousreply 25October 19, 2024 6:06 PM

I will never understand how Jan 6th wasn't a disqualifying event as far as Trump goes. It would doom the entire Democratic Party for decades if a Democratic President had done what Trump did.

by Anonymousreply 26October 19, 2024 6:09 PM

No one is starving, people aren't going to vote for a senile monster who says he'll be a dictator on day one because they pay a little more at the grocery store than they did four years ago, get real.

God, I can't wait for the election to be called for her just because our stupid fucking trolls will finally shut the fuck up, if only for a week.

by Anonymousreply 27October 19, 2024 6:10 PM

A Democrat would could never do that shit because anti-government is not built into the Democratic brand. Everything is about branding. Furthermore Trump could only do that shit because he is white. White people made more of stank about Obama criticizing the arrest of Henry Louis Gates than they did about January 6th. Racism won’t end because white people wont be fair.

by Anonymousreply 28October 19, 2024 6:13 PM

Oh, shut the fuck up, you fucking lunatic racist at R28.

What a shitting troll.

by Anonymousreply 29October 19, 2024 6:24 PM

The real troll is hungry and bored I see.

by Anonymousreply 30October 19, 2024 6:27 PM

[quote] No one is starving, people aren't going to vote for a senile monster who says he'll be a dictator on day one because they pay a little more at the grocery store than they did four years ago, get real.

Bookmarking this for the day after election night.

by Anonymousreply 31October 19, 2024 6:30 PM

[quote] God, I can't wait for the election to be called for her just because our stupid fucking trolls will finally shut the fuck up, if only for a week.

This is a repeat of 2016 where everyone was told to shut up that Hillary was going to win. I’m calling it now, Trump will win the election.

by Anonymousreply 32October 19, 2024 6:31 PM

R6 James Carville is one of the most respected and brilliant strategists in the Democratic party. The DNC has near Nancy Pelosi level reverence for him.

by Anonymousreply 33October 19, 2024 6:32 PM

[quote] back when I was in high school in the mid aughts it was commonly regarded that if you win Ohio, you win the presidency. That changed with Obama.—Prince-Akeem

The only way you were in a high school 20 years ago was to apply for the assistant janitor job, you lying piece of shit.

by Anonymousreply 34October 19, 2024 6:33 PM

R30: Just another passive-aggressive know-nothing playing Hallowed Queen of Africa and everyone here sees it. What's your next moniker going to be, troll?

Keep at it with the whites but I see you for what you are, troll.

by Anonymousreply 35October 19, 2024 6:36 PM

R34 stay mad you old creep. Class of 2006 BHSEC stand up.

by Anonymousreply 36October 19, 2024 6:41 PM

I just doxxed myself in the illest way possible. Thank God social media wasn’t popping back then so yall still want know know.

by Anonymousreply 37October 19, 2024 6:42 PM

Prince Akeem, are you Matt?

by Anonymousreply 38October 19, 2024 6:42 PM

Anyways I’m pretty sure the OP would prefer for the thread to return back to his message and not about me. Fkin obsessed weirdos. This is not the Teacake show.

by Anonymousreply 39October 19, 2024 6:43 PM

[quote] James Carville is one of the most respected and brilliant strategists in the Democratic party.

You must be posting from 1996.

by Anonymousreply 40October 19, 2024 6:44 PM

R38 No I am not. For the longest I thought Matt and Defacto were the same person but some of the comments I seen lately seem to suggest they are two different people.

by Anonymousreply 41October 19, 2024 6:45 PM

You wanna bring that bullshit up again?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 42October 19, 2024 6:51 PM

Gore. Won.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 43October 19, 2024 6:55 PM

Bard High School Early College, eh?

by Anonymousreply 44October 19, 2024 7:00 PM

[quote] [R13] back when I was in my 40s in the mid aughts it was commonly regarded that if you win Ohio, you win the presidency. That changed with Obama.

FIFY Teafake.

by Anonymousreply 45October 19, 2024 7:14 PM

I beez blatino, mafuckers!!!!!! Ole!!! 🌯 🫏 🌮

by Anonymousreply 46October 19, 2024 7:16 PM

[quote]America is mind blowing.

That is why I left. If Trump wins, I am definitely going after my Italian citizenship in five years. I already have just about five years under my belt.

The goop and gag of it all is that I have already submitted my overseas absentee ballot. I dropped it off at the consulate here and they mail everything back to the states to be sorted out. I am black and my election district is BUTLER, PA! of all places. I am probably the only if not one of the handful of black people in Butler PA voting for Kamala Harris. Go Kamala!

by Anonymousreply 47October 19, 2024 7:24 PM

R47 is leaving the US to live under the female Mussolini. Can’t make this shit up.

by Anonymousreply 48October 19, 2024 7:27 PM

[quote] That is why I left. If Trump wins, I am definitely going after my Italian citizenship in five years.

You left or are going to leave?

by Anonymousreply 49October 19, 2024 7:27 PM

Italy is no fan of gays. Good luck.

by Anonymousreply 50October 19, 2024 7:28 PM

r48 your ignorance is showing.

by Anonymousreply 51October 19, 2024 7:29 PM

R48 shut up 😆. Didn’t she just come to power. I don’t blame that poster. I wish I had the means and resources, my stankin ass would be in London. For one I need to stop getting fired from jobs because of my substance abuse. It seems like a whole right wing movement is growing in Western cultures. It’s because the results of imperialism and mass wealth inequality is now even affecting those who always had the complexion for the protection. Maybe we need to revise capitalism.

by Anonymousreply 52October 19, 2024 7:31 PM

My r52 was for r49.

by Anonymousreply 53October 19, 2024 7:32 PM

R51 = the irony.

by Anonymousreply 54October 19, 2024 7:32 PM

There’s no where to go. The UK fucked itself with Brexit. Italy is a backwards shit venturing into full-blown fascism like the rest of Europe. Your fucked no matter what. Even QAnon Canada is getting a Right-wing government. The world has simply gone to shit.

by Anonymousreply 55October 19, 2024 7:34 PM

Teacake already into the blow today.

by Anonymousreply 56October 19, 2024 7:35 PM

R56 no no my dear. I’m clean. I have to be. I am drinking some Irish coffee tho.

by Anonymousreply 57October 19, 2024 7:37 PM

r54 Meloni is not Mussolini. Italy is not a fascist country.

by Anonymousreply 58October 19, 2024 7:42 PM

R58 It's on its way.

by Anonymousreply 59October 19, 2024 7:44 PM

I esprinkle some carpet freshener on de rug and tell my son that de cocaine fairy has visited. Ees the only way I get him to help wit de chores.

by Anonymousreply 60October 19, 2024 7:47 PM

[quote] Harris by 82 electoral votes

Well we know it cannot be by that number. If all the non-battleground states fall into place, we start off with a 225 (Harris) to 223 (Trump) race, with 94 outstanding votes, including Nebraska-2. Giving Harris everything else, leaves her with 319 electoral votes, a 96 electoral vote edge. But no combination of loss(es) can bring that number down to 82.

by Anonymousreply 61October 19, 2024 7:48 PM

R60 Lame. Corny as fuck. My mom does not live with me. We don’t even live in the same state. Please don’t quit your day job cause standup ain’t for you boo.

by Anonymousreply 62October 19, 2024 7:49 PM

[quote]Italy is a backwards shit venturing into full-blown fascism

Your stupidity is almost charming.

by Anonymousreply 63October 19, 2024 7:50 PM

James Carville is a dinosaur and a fool. Landslide for women's reproductive freedom.

by Anonymousreply 64October 19, 2024 7:51 PM

Please don’t quit your day job cause standup ain’t for you boo.—Prince-Akeem

And lying ain't for you, *boo* since we see through all of them. So when you actually get another job, don't get fired from it for doing flake.

by Anonymousreply 65October 19, 2024 7:54 PM

I say "mafucking" all the time now, even when talking to my mom, thanks to Teacake.

by Anonymousreply 66October 19, 2024 7:59 PM

R65 Tell us why you mad yo. What happened? You the mafucker that made the post about your hookups standing you up?

by Anonymousreply 67October 19, 2024 7:59 PM

I want to go to mafuckin Floridahhhhhhh.

-r66’s mom

by Anonymousreply 68October 19, 2024 8:00 PM

Almost 1.4M people have already voted in GA since Tuesday. I wonder if this election there will be like Biden v. Trump or Abrams v Kemp II?

by Anonymousreply 69October 19, 2024 8:00 PM

It’s gonna be like Biden v. Trump. There is just too many black people and sane centrist white people in and round Philly and Atlanta/Savannah.

by Anonymousreply 70October 19, 2024 8:02 PM

Yeah, but they may be no match for the many more crazy white people.

by Anonymousreply 71October 19, 2024 8:05 PM

Stop trolling for WWs, Teacake.

by Anonymousreply 72October 19, 2024 8:05 PM

Un huh. So close it came down to a single state too close to call. The governor of the state determined the outcome.

The governor is the brother of one of the candidates.

Nothing to see here, folks.

Everything. Is. On. The. Level.

by Anonymousreply 73October 19, 2024 8:06 PM

R71 it’s not that many of them. Even with the low vibrational brothas who fuck Becky’s and exoticals in and around Atlanta as a booster lol.

by Anonymousreply 74October 19, 2024 8:07 PM

R72 Stop trolling for my attention.

by Anonymousreply 75October 19, 2024 8:07 PM

In the 2000 presidential election, she received international attention for her role as the elected Florida Secretary of State during the state's election recount, certifying George W. Bush's narrow victory (537 votes) over Al Gore and awarding him the Florida electors, which gained him the national election.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 76October 19, 2024 8:10 PM

The problem with Florida is that they had those stupid ballots which made hundreds of thousands of people in Democratic counties vote for the wrong person. They should have just had a state wide revote but that’s unconstitutional.

by Anonymousreply 77October 19, 2024 8:15 PM

"The EC vote takes place mid-December, so it definitely won't take until Christmas."

"True, since the term of the new president will not begin until January 20th."

Do you two honestly believe that if Trump loses this election, he and the Republicans will go quietly into the good night once and for all?

Do you have collective amnesia? Where were you in December of 2000 and January of 2021?

by Anonymousreply 78October 19, 2024 8:18 PM

On the flip side, due to different time zones & corresponding different poll closing times, the "early" initial call for Gore is thought to have depressed the last minute Bush vote.

by Anonymousreply 79October 19, 2024 8:19 PM

[quote]Katherine Harris

It's ironic that there are people who are scared that election officials in 2024 won't do their job and certify election results, yet some of those same people attacked Katherine Harris for doing what she was legally bound to do, certifying the state results after all the counties had certified their results. ("But that was different, somehow!!") Concern is always situational.

by Anonymousreply 80October 19, 2024 8:21 PM

R79 wait are you saying they called for Gore before everyone had finished voting?

by Anonymousreply 81October 19, 2024 8:23 PM

Yes, R81.

by Anonymousreply 82October 19, 2024 8:24 PM

Katherine Harris with her psycho eyes and fake tits.

by Anonymousreply 83October 19, 2024 8:31 PM

[quote] With all of the effort Harris has put into this, from the successful Convention, the great debate performance, the shrewd social media blitz, it's amazing that she's only tied with Trump in the polls.

It's because of paid advertising. Harris has been flawless at the convention, the debate, and the rallies, but her ads haven't been very memorable. She has mostly run positive ads and avoided sharp attacks on Trump, which I think has been a mistake. In Pennsylvania (and I assume other swing states as well), we're bombarded with non-stop Trump ads accusing Harris of destroying the economy, letting immigrants murder children, letting prisoners get free sex-change operations, wanting to ban fracking, and, of course, wanting to confiscate everybody's guns. When those messages are drilled into voters' minds repeatedly, they start to have an effect, even though they're all complete lies.

by Anonymousreply 84October 19, 2024 8:32 PM

R81 If I were Gore I would have sued NBC and the mainstream press. Cause it likely also caused his voters standing in long lines to go home.

All in all, presidential elections should be nationalized and no EC. Everyone knows the EC serves no purpose in today’s modern communication age but it won’t happen because there is always going to be one side it paralyzes.

by Anonymousreply 85October 19, 2024 8:34 PM

[quote] The controversy began on election night, November 7, 2000, when the national television networks, using information provided to them by the Voter News Service, an organization formed by the Associated Press to help determine the outcome of the election through early result tallies and exit polling, first called Florida for Gore in the hour after polls closed in the peninsula (in the Eastern time zone) but about ten minutes before they closed in the heavily Republican counties of the panhandle (in the Central time zone).

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 86October 19, 2024 8:34 PM

[quote] All in all, presidential elections should be nationalized and no EC. Everyone knows the EC serves no purpose in today’s modern communication age but it won’t happen because there is always going to be one side it paralyzes.—Prince-Akeem

Mafuckin!

by Anonymousreply 87October 19, 2024 8:36 PM

Hundreds of people, including many Republican staffers, descended upon South Florida to protest the state's recounts.

The demonstration was organized by these operatives, sometimes referred to as the "Brooks Brothers Brigade", to oppose the recount of ballots during the Florida election recount. The official canvassers, to speed up the process and meet their deadline, moved the counting process into a new room, and members of the media were restricted to a distance of 25 feet away.

Republicans objected to this change of plans. John E. Sweeney of New York, nicknamed "Congressman Kick-Ass" by President Bush for his work in Florida, set the incident in motion by telling an aide to 'stop them' and to "Shut it down."

The demonstration turned violent and, according to The New York Times, "several people were trampled, punched or kicked when protesters tried to rush the doors outside the office of the Miami-Dade supervisor of elections. Sheriff's deputies restored order." Democratic National Committee aide Luis Rosero claimed to be kicked and punched outside of Leahy's office.

Within two hours after the event, the canvassing board unanimously voted to shut down the count, in part due to perceptions that the process was not open or fair, and in part because the court-mandated deadline had become impossible to meet, due to the interference.

Sweeney defended his actions, arguing that his aim was not to stop the hand recount, but to restore the process to public view.

Other Bush supporters acknowledged they hoped to end the recount.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 88October 19, 2024 8:46 PM

I rather we didn’t have this issue, so go ahead and early vote if you can. And get all your friends and family to vote! Volunteer for phone banks, send post cards, show up to rallies and canvassing events!

by Anonymousreply 89October 19, 2024 8:47 PM

[quote] The problem with Florida is that they had those stupid ballots which made hundreds of thousands of people in Democratic counties vote for the wrong person.

Whoever invented the "butterfly ballot" (see the image at R86) should have been executed. It really is a stupid design. When I first encountered it (in 1992, I think), I was dumbfounded because I didn't realize you had to read both facing pages together. I looked at the left page and couldn't figure out why there were more holes to punch than there were candidates to vote for. I thought maybe you had to punch two holes, one for president and one for VP. I finally figured it out, but I can understand why some Florida voters were confused. If it hadn't been for those damn butterfly ballots, Al Gore would have been president.

by Anonymousreply 90October 19, 2024 8:49 PM

Roger Stone and Brad Blakeman take credit for managing the riot from a command post, although their accounts contradict each other. Republican New York Representative John E. Sweeney gave the signal that started the riot, telling an aide to "shut it down".

by Anonymousreply 91October 19, 2024 8:51 PM

I call bullshit. I do not believe it is as close as t he media wants us to believe. Women are pissed off. They outnumber men and t hey will vote. So will minorities Black and Brown. So will young people. The only reason to insist it's "So close" is because Trump's people will try to steal it like they did in 2016. Fuck Trump.

by Anonymousreply 92October 19, 2024 8:51 PM

Please just ignore the resident Prince Idiot. He REALLY wants your attention. Sad, really.

by Anonymousreply 93October 19, 2024 8:52 PM

Your bothsiderism is *adorable*, r80.

by Anonymousreply 94October 19, 2024 8:59 PM

I've had him blocked and it's heaven, r93.

by Anonymousreply 95October 19, 2024 9:01 PM

R92 The skeptic in me wants to co-sign this as well as the fact I know many in the media are on “our” side but then reason kicks in my big beautiful brain. There is not a conspiracy that would be able to dictate actual scientific polls. Plus one of my homies is a big honcho statistician for a very reputable poll agency. This thing is close as fuck. Just vote and she will win.

by Anonymousreply 96October 19, 2024 9:08 PM

Whatever. The media certainly has a vested interest in pushing the narrative of a close horse-race.

So over their tabloid bullshit. What happened to real news?

by Anonymousreply 97October 19, 2024 9:11 PM

[quote] Plus one of my homies is a big honcho statistician for a very reputable poll agency.

God, the lies, Teacunt. The lies.

by Anonymousreply 98October 19, 2024 9:12 PM

[quote]Women are pissed off.

It's not the women whom she has to worry about. It's the men. She's losing support in white, Latino and black men. And the Muslim population because of the fiasco in the Middle East.

I can't believe there are people who actually think a black woman running for President was going to automatically get a landslide of votes. In THIS country? Spend some time on Earth.

by Anonymousreply 99October 19, 2024 9:13 PM

R97 But the media won’t be able to falsify polls. I agree it makes better ratings for it to be close but they can’t just fake polls. I don’t know maybe they can….

by Anonymousreply 100October 19, 2024 9:14 PM

R98

The thirst, my god, the thirst. Get off my dick bitch. I’m not lying.

by Anonymousreply 101October 19, 2024 9:15 PM

"The only reason to insist it's 'So close' is because Trump's people will try to steal it like they did in 2016."

The only reason they insist it's "so close" is because that's what gets the clicks and views and keeps the money rolling in. Harris is going to win.

by Anonymousreply 102October 19, 2024 9:15 PM

R97 thinks the real news that Harris is running away with the race is being hidden.

by Anonymousreply 103October 19, 2024 9:15 PM

[quote] I’m not lying.

Proof that Teacake is lying.

by Anonymousreply 104October 19, 2024 9:17 PM

[quote] The only reason to insist it's 'So close' is because Trump's people will try to steal it like they did in 2016.

And how did they do that? We’ll wait.

by Anonymousreply 105October 19, 2024 9:27 PM

I’m Cuban, I have been living in the US for 30 years, I always saw the US and Americans so positive as being on another level, smart, advanced but not any more. Americans are as stupid as any Latin American country, if it weren’t for democrats this country would literally be a third world shit hole. I never thought I was going to even think of renouncing to my American citizenship but now I’m just waiting until the elections. If Trumps wins I’m moving to Spain and I will be very happy to see the collapse of the economy, Americans starving, losing their Medicare and other social services and benefits, everything getting expensive, price gauging, latinos and black men being treated worse than dogs, mass deportation including those with already American citizenship etc. They will deserve it.

by Anonymousreply 106October 19, 2024 9:28 PM

Gee thanks, r106.

by Anonymousreply 107October 19, 2024 9:42 PM

Your only post Señor r196?

by Anonymousreply 108October 19, 2024 9:44 PM

^ oops, r106

by Anonymousreply 109October 19, 2024 9:45 PM

[quote] Never underestimate the power of misogyny. I made that mistake once.

And Kamala is a much weaker candidate than Hillary.

by Anonymousreply 110October 19, 2024 9:46 PM

Isn’t the huge early voting a good sign for Democrats? The “close election” seems like media spin.

by Anonymousreply 111October 19, 2024 9:47 PM

Kamala doesn't have the Hillary 25 year baggage. Kamala is the shiny new thing. Trump is old news

by Anonymousreply 112October 19, 2024 9:47 PM

R110 That’s def not true. Kamala’s likability ratings are way higher than Hilary, especially among white women. We just didn’t think someone like Trump could be elected after 8 years of Obama. But manufacturing is not coming back. Politicians won’t be real about the shit and just fucking say it and if you have talker like Trump talking xenophobic shit, it registers. And that New York accent makes he seem smarter to basic white people in Pittsburgh and Detroit.

by Anonymousreply 113October 19, 2024 9:49 PM

R49 I already left, three years ago, at the end of Covid.

Living in America is like fever dream. Waking up from it is a revelation. I don’t care what you say about Italy, fascism, Meloni. I am no fan - BUT I’ve lived in both places and there is no comparison. America is fear. The more I am away the more I feel it when I go home. You physically experience the weight of the fear. Not to be too dramatic but it feels like a rot. A rot people have accepted because it’s overwhelming.. It’s sad and heavy.

Italy isn’t skipping through the lilies - it’s life with all of its existential drama/ trauma. But it’s adult. It’s NOT wrapped up in religion. Political leaders don’t have to confirm their belief in a sky god. There is still a humanity, empathy, earnestness. I love my country. I’m am proud to be an American. We symbolically represent something very important to the world. But the country is in a dark place right now.

by Anonymousreply 114October 19, 2024 9:52 PM

R106, you can always move back to Cuba!

by Anonymousreply 115October 19, 2024 9:52 PM

R114 👏. I know you exactly what you are talking about. There is a glorified ignorance in America. All through high school you hear about the dumbing down of America and anti intellectualism but you don’t really HEAR it. For one I’m a minority so I’m processing it differently than my peers, processing it at time when blacks are achieving unprecedented wealth and my own family moving upward economically. So I’m not really getting it. Hearing it from a bunch of white privileged people in big cities. I get the shit now though.

by Anonymousreply 116October 19, 2024 9:57 PM

R13 I have a feeling that OH will go blue, too.

by Anonymousreply 117October 19, 2024 10:00 PM

And if Trump is elected, it will be a devastating blow to the country, to the world. The world needs the idea of America to exist in its collective conscious. The idea of a place made up of all walks of life where human rights are upheld and expanded. If Trump wins, the country has stopped moving forward, it’s the beginning of the end. And everything America stood for becomes just another ideology that didn’t have legs to stand the test of time. I don’t know where the human experience goes from there.

by Anonymousreply 118October 19, 2024 10:03 PM

R115 sweetheart, i was born in Cuba with Spanish citizenship. I already fled a cesspool and if I have to do it twice I will.

by Anonymousreply 119October 19, 2024 10:31 PM

114 why Italy and not Spain? I think Spain is way friendlier with gays.

by Anonymousreply 120October 19, 2024 10:33 PM

[quote]r119 = already fled a cesspool and if I have to do it twice I will

Sure, Señorita Jan.

by Anonymousreply 121October 19, 2024 10:40 PM

Enough with your personal essay, Mr. Cuba. No one gives a shit about your timeline in life. We don’t need breathless updates or clarifications.

by Anonymousreply 122October 19, 2024 10:45 PM

r14 Which state would fulfill that role now ie bellweather and overtime do staes ever become bellweather again after previously losing that status as you say Ohio did?

Could Florida go dem?

by Anonymousreply 123October 19, 2024 10:56 PM

[quote] So I’m not really getting it. Hearing it from a bunch of white privileged people in big cities

Like yourself, Teacake?

by Anonymousreply 124October 19, 2024 11:23 PM

If this thing drags on for months and the Supreme Court ends up ruling like in the Bush-Gore situation, I will have a fucking coronary.

by Anonymousreply 125October 19, 2024 11:25 PM

R122 metete el deo en el culo.

by Anonymousreply 126October 19, 2024 11:25 PM

R124 Just like Trump. No matter how much you repeat a lie it doesn’t make it true. Carry on.

by Anonymousreply 127October 19, 2024 11:28 PM

[quote] If this thing drags on for months and the Supreme Court ends up ruling like in the Bush-Gore situation, I will have a fucking coronary.

It won't. President Biden will use his absolute immunity to summarily execute any person who contests Harris' victory.

by Anonymousreply 128October 19, 2024 11:31 PM

I am for Dark Brandon unleashed.

by Anonymousreply 129October 19, 2024 11:50 PM

R7 Turns out trying to win over suburban whites by adopting right wing policies isn't a winning strategy to motivate the left in 2024. Shocking I know.

by Anonymousreply 130October 20, 2024 1:23 AM

Spot fucking on.

Welp too late to do anything about their core campaign strategy so may God help us all.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 131October 20, 2024 1:27 AM

R118, get over yourself. America's dominance is down to its military might. You talk as if every G7 country or smaller democracy will wither with America in Trump's hands. It's just such an inflated conceit. The world will spin. The sun will rise. It will be different, it will be harder at times, but America is not the spiritual light of the world. Maybe, paradoxically, for the "shithole" countries, but everywhere else gets on with their own national lives every day. This fetish of the American dream/the greatest nation on earth is a fiction that has gone from tedious to laughable and is just arrogantly disrespectful. Mellow out a little. You're really not all that. The election won't save the world, but it may fuck it. Proud of that?

by Anonymousreply 132October 20, 2024 1:28 AM

[quote]why Italy and not Spain? I think Spain is way friendlier with gays.

You've obviously never been to Italy. I loved living there (many years), I'm in the US now, but can't wait to go back. I agree wholeheartedly with R114. And there is so much more I could add.

by Anonymousreply 133October 20, 2024 1:34 AM

Oh, r130/r131 - *always the negative Nellie. Now you just turn that frown upside down!

by Anonymousreply 134October 20, 2024 1:36 AM

[quote] America's dominance is down to its military might.

America’s dominance is not about our military might. It’s about our cultural preeminence. As long as we have the world’s leading culture and cultural exports, our position is secure.

by Anonymousreply 135October 20, 2024 1:39 AM

[quote] The election won't save the world, but it may fuck it.

You have just contradicted yourself. Which goes to show that you’re speaking from a position of insecurity and inferiority.

by Anonymousreply 136October 20, 2024 1:41 AM

r135 But isnt Bollywood now bigger than Hollywood?

by Anonymousreply 137October 20, 2024 1:43 AM

Fuck you and your inferiority accusations, R136. There's a little bit of MAGA in all of you, isn't there? You'll get what you deserve and wonder why and how and, amazingly, the rest of the thinking world will take no pleasure in it even so, even as we have seen from the outside all that you have and watched you throw it all away with both hands. Done trying to explain the obvious. Good night and more good luck than you deserve.

by Anonymousreply 138October 20, 2024 1:54 AM

Internal GOP polls show Trump losing much more than the regular polls.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 139October 20, 2024 1:58 AM

R139 He knows it. That’s why he is calling them fat now and telling them fat ass rednecks to go vote. But they like that real shit. It doesn’t offend like the PC left.

by Anonymousreply 140October 20, 2024 2:01 AM

R139, it makes sense of what he said at the Smith Dinner:

“I don’t know what’s going to happen three weeks from now,” Mr. Trump said at one point. “Isn’t it sort of exciting? Right? Isn’t it just exciting, what’s going on. It’s a process. It’s a rough process, too. Not so pretty. And yet, sometimes, very beautiful.”

No one would have advised him to say that. It's what's on his mind, though.

That and Arnold palmer's dick:

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 141October 20, 2024 2:03 AM

Please tell me he'll go away.

by Anonymousreply 142October 20, 2024 2:14 AM

[quote]Which state would fulfill that role now ie bellweather

Pennsylvania

by Anonymousreply 143October 20, 2024 3:42 AM

Ohio is gone.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 144October 20, 2024 6:02 AM

R131 I hear you and that was common rhetoric when I was in college but it seems like everytime the Democrats try to employ that tactic then more fringe elements come out the woodwork and then comes the purple haired freaks to try to hijack the movement, “well not just that but also THIS and THIS and THIS. The older I get, working in the real world, America really is center right. It’s just the economy yo and inflation. Plain and simple. Trump is so fucking dangerous and batshit we keep forgetting—this election was the republicans to lose.

by Anonymousreply 145October 20, 2024 6:12 AM

It's not close. Just that more Republicans answer polls than Democrats. And I suspect a lot of people are fibbing to set Turd up for a yuge fall. He'll protest, "But... the polls!" for months of litigation after his loss.

by Anonymousreply 146October 20, 2024 8:03 AM

I hope you're right, R146.

by Anonymousreply 147October 20, 2024 8:05 AM

Or vice-versa R146.

by Anonymousreply 148October 20, 2024 8:48 AM

That may be true in other years, R146, but I’ve heard Democratic professionals say the opposite this year, while arguing it’s evidence of an enthusiasm gap favoring Democrats.

by Anonymousreply 149October 20, 2024 10:42 AM

Trump could go on stage and promise to murder half of the country, admit to raping Ivana and Ivanka, and he would gain a point. NYT Headline - Trump heats up rhetoric as Kamala hides from media during close race.

by Anonymousreply 150October 20, 2024 10:44 AM

TIPP tracking poll now has Trump ahead by two.

by Anonymousreply 151October 20, 2024 11:36 AM

And if this holds up - and it's a very good pollster - Trump would have enough electoral votes to at least get a tie in the Electoral College. And a tie is almost certainly a win for him.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 152October 20, 2024 12:02 PM

He’s right. Some of what we are seeing in the polls since Oct 1 is Trump-friendly garbage polls “flooding the zone”…. but some of it is coming from the pollsters with a decent history and reputation. Emerson, Quinnipiac, NYT Siena etc.

I believe the tightening is real and that the polling average is accurate within 3 pts, which means either candidate's could win.

by Anonymousreply 153October 20, 2024 12:17 PM

And Prince-Akeeem at R14, I remember Ohio and Missouri being the two states that were most often described as the bellwether. As goes ___, so goes the election.

Everything is so changed now — this new cluster of battleground states, and even Florida being written off as too red to work for while North Carolina is an equally matched fight.

by Anonymousreply 154October 20, 2024 12:25 PM

R151 is posting that on various threads this morning. I smell an AGENDA.

by Anonymousreply 155October 20, 2024 12:34 PM

If Democrats lose I wonder what the party will look like in 4 years time. I’m guessing way more conservative which is where the country seems to be right now.

by Anonymousreply 156October 20, 2024 12:37 PM

TIPP some people love them. They dd call Trump and 2016 correctly. Some think TIPP has a right wing bias. But 538 lists them as the 120th best polling organization in the country. Which means they are not the absolute worst.

by Anonymousreply 157October 20, 2024 12:50 PM

R13 I think you mean Biden. Obama won Ohio twice …

by Anonymousreply 158October 20, 2024 1:03 PM

^Oops that should’ve been R14.

by Anonymousreply 159October 20, 2024 1:05 PM

The country is not conservative. The country is far to the left of both parties. That's why Trump has tried to tap into the anti-trade crowd. They never voted republican before.

by Anonymousreply 160October 20, 2024 1:12 PM

R160 is on the pipe.

by Anonymousreply 161October 20, 2024 1:14 PM

“ far to the left of both parties”

No not the country the DL

by Anonymousreply 162October 20, 2024 1:27 PM

If America goes down the tubes, the impact will be world wide. Get the fuck out of your bubble and fully appreciate how our economic stability and relationships in the international community affect the world, because it's true. There's a reason why Putin and Xi want the USA to weaken. It's not just about Ukraine. Right now, thanks t o Joe Biden's policies we have the strongest economy in the world. Janet Yellen deserves the fucking Noble Prize for what she has accomplished. As far fetched as it may seem to some, we provide stability in the world. Point to the Middle East or Russia and cite the volatility, but it would be much worse. And the thing no one seems to be talking about except in academia, is the fact that it is all about energy and climate change. If Trump and the rest of the dirty bastards have their way they will shit on all the rest of us, because they believe we are all scum, and only fit to serve their interests.

by Anonymousreply 163October 20, 2024 2:45 PM

Question from Europe: Every nationwide poll I've seen shows it's not even close. Why do Americans perceive that so differently? How should Trump manage to win? Can anyone give me a model calculation of which states he thinks Trump will flip so there is a plausible "road to victory" for him?

by Anonymousreply 164October 20, 2024 3:10 PM

R132 / R138 is exactly what I was talking about in my original post at r114. It’s completely representative of America right now. Someone can’t just respond to you if they disagree - they have to ATTACK you. Attack seems to be the only form of discourse. They make their points while calling you stupid, funny, get over yourself. And after all of that the poster's last sentence is in agreement with everything I said.

I said the IDEA of America is important to the world. I didn’t say it has to be America. But for the 20th century it was - the expansion of rights, and defending the ideals of democracy around the world (at least on paper). And with the election of Trump, America will be seen as going backwards, this great experiment.

And yes countries and cultures have existed for thousands of years before America and will continue to exist long after. The world will keep spinning. But there has never been another country founded on the premise (Yes the premise) that all men are created equal no matter where you come from. That is the foundation of America and what the expansion of rights has been working to achieve - this promise. And now the direction of that trajectory is on the line.

by Anonymousreply 165October 20, 2024 3:16 PM

[quote] Question from Europe: Every nationwide poll I've seen shows it's not even close. Why do Americans perceive that so differently? How should Trump manage to win? Can anyone give me a model calculation of which states he thinks Trump will flip so there is a plausible "road to victory" for him?

Read through the “Official Election Poll Thread: Part 4” thread. There’s enough there that it shouldn’t be too hard for a European to clue in on how it works and what the paths to victory are.

by Anonymousreply 166October 20, 2024 3:25 PM

Janet already has one in her house. She has sufficient.

by Anonymousreply 167October 20, 2024 3:26 PM

R152 The newly elected Congress settles the tie.

by Anonymousreply 168October 20, 2024 3:30 PM

No shit. And Republicans are virtually guaranteed to control a majority of the 50 delegations.

by Anonymousreply 169October 20, 2024 3:32 PM

I don’t think it’s close. Early voting is strong for Democrats. There will be no groundswell of support for Donald Dementia.

by Anonymousreply 170October 20, 2024 3:34 PM

Republicans aren't winning anything. Not the Senate, not hte House, not the Presidency. The public understands what they've done with the House the last two years: which is to say, nothing.

by Anonymousreply 171October 20, 2024 3:38 PM

[quote] Question from Europe: Every nationwide poll I've seen shows it's not even close.

I have no idea what you're seeing. All of the most recent nationwide polls either show Harris or Trump with small leads. In any event, we don't elect our presidents on a nationwide basis.

by Anonymousreply 172October 20, 2024 3:38 PM

[quote] And Republicans are virtually guaranteed to control a majority of the 50 delegations.

I don’t know what the expected count is, but Republicans are helped by having only one Republican running in Alaska this election instead of two rivals.

by Anonymousreply 173October 20, 2024 3:40 PM

r170 What do you mean that early voting is strong for Democrats? Votes aren't counted until Election Day (or after). Do you mean that in districts perceived as Democratic strongholds, an unexpectedly large number of early ballots have been turned in?

by Anonymousreply 174October 20, 2024 3:40 PM

Wasn’t this like the last time when they were promising some great Red Wave to sweep the nation? And that is when Trump was the incumbent and had a handful more of marbles.

by Anonymousreply 175October 20, 2024 3:41 PM

[quote] Republicans aren't winning anything. Not the Senate, not hte House, not the Presidency. The public understands what they've done with the House the last two years: which is to say, nothing.

It must be nice to have a brain like yours that can so easily and completely separate from, and deny, reality.

by Anonymousreply 176October 20, 2024 3:42 PM

R174 ballots can be tracked to the voter registration of the person submitting them. Local officials track it and release it—won’t include the actual voter or their actual vote. But it is a proxy.

by Anonymousreply 177October 20, 2024 3:45 PM

[quote]Datalounge still hasn’t come to grips with how historically unpopular Biden is. That’s what’s hurting Kamala the most.

That clip of her saying “nothing comes to mind” when asked if she would have done anything differently than Biden is a HUGE liability for her.

by Anonymousreply 178October 20, 2024 3:49 PM

173 if it goes to the House, Trump wins. The current breakdown is 26R, 22D, 2 even.

The fun part would be the Senate—as they elect the VP. And if no president is elected by the House, but the Senate does elect a VP, then the VP becomes acting President…until the House does choose.

by Anonymousreply 179October 20, 2024 3:50 PM

[quote] TIPP tracking poll now has Trump ahead by two.

This just boggles my mind.

This Presidential race should not be close at all.

Do people have amnesia about what the Trump years were like?

Every time the Democrats clean up the Republican mess, the public goes right back to the VOMIT that is the Republicans, because everything is good again.

That's when Republicans start to lie, and that's when the dumb fucks in this country start to believe those lies.

And this happens over, and over, and over again.

Reagan Bush ruined it. Clinton fixed it.

George W. Bush ruined it. Obama fixed it.

Trump ruined it. Biden fixed it.

And yet the voters keep returning to Republicans, as the Bible says "like a dog returns to its vomit."

by Anonymousreply 180October 20, 2024 3:51 PM

Lay, blah. We all know. What you don’t know is that’s not how many voters think. It’s a simple A or B…simple is as simple does. P.S. that applies to millions of Democratic voters as well. We are not a nation of rational political analysts.

by Anonymousreply 181October 20, 2024 3:54 PM

[quote] Wasn’t this like the last time when they were promising some great Red Wave to sweep the nation? And that is when Trump was the incumbent and had a handful more of marbles.

Trump wasn't then on the ballot. And if he wins this year, he will do so by getting the low proclivity voters to the polls. The kknd of voters who respond almost exclusively to him.

by Anonymousreply 182October 20, 2024 3:55 PM

[quote] Republicans aren't winning anything. Not the Senate, not hte House, not the Presidency. The public understands what they've done with the House the last two years: which is to say, nothing.

The public doesn't understand a goddamned thing.

YOU understand it. And I UNDERSTAND it. But the general public does not.

They are so easily swayed and manipulated by Republican lies, which are reinforced by the media.

Trump, Republicans, billionaires, and the corporate owned media all have a vested interest in the right-wing controlling our government.

It means big breaks for corporations, less regulation, greater wealth for the 1%, and less power to the people.

We are in an era right now, where if Trump wins, then the American poor and middle class will be in bondage for the rest of this century.

We will not be able to recover from the damage they will inflict on this country.

by Anonymousreply 183October 20, 2024 3:56 PM

[quote]Reagan Bush ruined it. Clinton fixed it. George W. Bush ruined it. Obama fixed it. Trump ruined it. Biden fixed it.

George W Bush didn’t win the popular vote in 2000, and neither did Trump in 2016. Obviously thats not how the President is elected. But the majority of voters did NOT want to put Republicans in control after two successful Democratic administrations.

by Anonymousreply 184October 20, 2024 3:56 PM

There are more Americans instilling as Republicans than Democrat, which is a first in decades. They’re also tied with new voter registration and Republicans are voting early. There’s simply no way of knowing how early voting fares one side or the other now that they’re almost even.

by Anonymousreply 185October 20, 2024 3:58 PM

The new voter registrations you're talking about are ininitessimal R185 and they don't reflect changes of the last couple months.

by Anonymousreply 186October 20, 2024 3:59 PM

R184, the entire country doesn’t vote, so that means nothing. There are a lot of people who sit out elections who would vote Republican if forced.

by Anonymousreply 187October 20, 2024 3:59 PM

R180, when Republicans shut down the government during the Obama years, Americans rewarded them the entire Congress. Never underestimate the stupidity of the American electorate.

by Anonymousreply 188October 20, 2024 4:00 PM

[quote][R184], the entire country doesn’t vote, so that means nothing. There are a lot of people who sit out elections who would vote Republican if forced.

If they don’t vote, then their opinions don’t matter.

by Anonymousreply 189October 20, 2024 4:01 PM

I think Democrats, and especially DL, are going to be dumbfounded if the fallout of Roe results in a Trump victory.

by Anonymousreply 190October 20, 2024 4:01 PM

R174, The percentage of Democrat's voting early is significantly higher compared to Republicans.

by Anonymousreply 191October 20, 2024 4:04 PM

It won't R190. The people are not as worthless as the republicans make them out to be.

by Anonymousreply 192October 20, 2024 4:04 PM

R185 is a laughable troll. His claim is so easily dismissed, it’s a wonder how he even passed troll school. Maybe he’s an unpaid intern.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 193October 20, 2024 4:04 PM

[quote] Do people have amnesia about what the Trump years were like?

From another thread:

[quote] A caller to Charlamagne’s show today made a similar comment to a caller today to Dan Abrams. Both talked about people crediting Trump for sending them checks during Covid. The Abrams caller, a Harris supporter from North Carolina, talked about how flesh with cash her friends were in ‘20 & how protected they were from evictions & student loan payments. She mentioned one friend, a waitress, who was making more money not working. That friends were saving money not eating at restaurants. Some could even afford to make charitable contributions. So it seems this is the great Trump economy many people are remembering.

by Anonymousreply 194October 20, 2024 4:04 PM

If the Democrats lose, which seems unlikely, they should over the next four years work on border security, and work on distancing themselves from the trans agenda. Those are their biggest liabilities which are exploited by the other side.

by Anonymousreply 195October 20, 2024 4:05 PM

Btw, block r185 and you’ll see his shit is all over these threads, including a bunch of recent posts.

by Anonymousreply 196October 20, 2024 4:06 PM

R190 explain how any fall out from Roe results in a trump win. Not whether trump can or does win but how his doing away with Roe helps him?

No one in their right mind would suggest trump picked up a significant number of new voters or that the Dems lost a significant number of voters because of Roe.

by Anonymousreply 197October 20, 2024 4:08 PM

[quote] That clip of her saying “nothing comes to mind” when asked if she would have done anything differently than Biden is a HUGE liability for her.

I just saw the Trump ad featuring that clip 3 times in less than an hour on TV. They're going to run that ad nonstop until election day.

I agree that it's a huge liability, which is frustrating because it's kind of an unfair question. It's asking Harris to betray her boss. The Biden administration has brought us back from COVID, saved us from a recession, brought unemployment down to record lows and the stock market to record highs. The U.S. economy is the envy of the world. Why should Harris want to change course?

That's the problem with this election in a nutshell: Biden has been an incredibly successful president (especially given the circumstances he's had to deal with), but many voters are too stupid to realize it. So they'll vote for Trump, even though his tariffs will send inflation skyrocketing.

by Anonymousreply 198October 20, 2024 4:10 PM

Notice also the weird use of the English language in R185. Not American.

by Anonymousreply 199October 20, 2024 4:11 PM

How many time are you going to repeat that post? By the way, it is grammatically incorrect.

by Anonymousreply 200October 20, 2024 4:13 PM

[quote]Polls show an election that could be the 'closest since Bush v. Gore'

Grinding out Republican polls by the hundreds is my primary GOTV strategy. In fact, it's my ONLY GOTV strategy.

by Anonymousreply 201October 20, 2024 4:15 PM

What is grammatically correct? This?

[QUOTE] There are more Americans instilling as Republicans than Democrat

Run this thru your ChapGPT again, Boris.

by Anonymousreply 202October 20, 2024 4:16 PM

[quote] Biden has been an incredibly successful president

His biggest failing, which - if Trump wins - may have made it impossible for either him or Harris to win, was his complete inability to use the bully pulpit, an enormous advantage for most presidents. He should've been out front, early, talking about how Covid would remain hanging over the economy, causing inflation. And that he was working to defeat inflation without - as nearly all expected - a deep recession. That he was working on a soft landing. That a soft landing was accomplished.

by Anonymousreply 203October 20, 2024 4:16 PM

That sound bite of Harris is nothing compared to Trump talking about Haitians eating dogs and cats. People are not going to put a mentally ill man back in office.

by Anonymousreply 204October 20, 2024 4:17 PM

R199 not R185 but I reread R185 several times and now I am wondering what country you come from and what your native language is?

Is your job to come to DL only to stir up problems among Dems during an election and attack them ? If so how is the pay? Because most here do that for free.

by Anonymousreply 205October 20, 2024 4:17 PM

[quote]and Republicans are voting early.

No. They’re not. Trump spent years convincing his supporters that early voting is fraudulent.

by Anonymousreply 206October 20, 2024 4:17 PM

[quote] People are not going to put a mentally ill man back in office.

I'm afraid you vastly overestimate your fellow Americans.

by Anonymousreply 207October 20, 2024 4:19 PM

I can't believe Elon is getting away buying votes and we're (Americans) are voting for a fascist who won't do anything for them.

by Anonymousreply 208October 20, 2024 4:21 PM

Elon is only paying people to sign a stupid petition. There’s no guarantee they will vote.

by Anonymousreply 209October 20, 2024 4:24 PM

The petition is something about “supporting the Constitution”. While he campaigns for the candidate who said he wants to terminate the Constitution.

by Anonymousreply 210October 20, 2024 4:27 PM

Have you "instilled" as a Republican lately?

by Anonymousreply 211October 20, 2024 4:51 PM

Early voting is widely expected to have a strong Democratic lead, and votes cast on Nov 5 are widely expected to have Republican lead. We saw this in 2020. Fox/Trump/et al have been demonizing and attacking early voting for years and years. So don’t look to the early voting clues as evidence of a Harris surge across all votes.

by Anonymousreply 212October 20, 2024 5:03 PM

I don’t understand these Muslims in MI refusing to support Harris/Walz. I mean, firstly, do they think Netanyahu is some puppet? Of the Democratic Party? Also, Trump has already said Netanyahu can do whatever the hell he wants - did they not hear that? Trump isn’t going to do anything for the Palestinians. He proved that in his first term. And then they’re saying to vote for Jill Stein? Again, was 2016 so long ago? She’s a total Russian plant.

I wonder if they’re just trolling or do they really think this is a winning strategy for Gaza? I’m assuming this is mostly Russian propaganda to siphon votes away from Harris. People can’t possibly be that stupid.

by Anonymousreply 213October 20, 2024 5:11 PM

[quote]People can’t possibly be that stupid.

Donald Trump won election in 2016 and he's neck and neck with Kamala Harris for next month's election.

People can indeed be that stupid.

by Anonymousreply 214October 20, 2024 5:15 PM

I ordered some food from Grubhub 45 minutes ago and "Instilled" hasn't come!

by Anonymousreply 215October 20, 2024 5:17 PM

R213 Because Harris is the one who's second in command in an adminstration that's been using their tax dollars to fund a genocide on their family and friends, not Trump. What's so hard to understand?

And I'm asking this in good faith: short of sending in US troops to aid Israel in burning children alive, which isn't happening under any circumstances, what could Trump possibly do for Israel that the Biden admin hasn't done already?

by Anonymousreply 216October 20, 2024 5:18 PM

Stack of mail-in ballots found in SoCal storm drain

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 217October 20, 2024 5:20 PM

First day of early voting in NV: much smaller lead for Ds than previously.

by Anonymousreply 218October 20, 2024 5:22 PM

R203, it wouldn’t have made any difference what Biden said.

With MAGA it is baked in that the economy sucks, inflation is sky high, crime rates are at an all time high and the border is wide open with the largest amount of illegal crossings in the history of the world - this is pumped into their brains non-stop by MAGA politicians and corporate media. Mike Johnson just said all these things again this morning as if they were true and Jake Tapper did nothing to counter with the truth. It doesn’t matter what Democrats do.

It works well for MAGA politicians because if the impossible happens - Johnson stating he thinks they’re going to take the WH, House and Senate - they can just immediately change their tune and presto! All of that will be fixed and their supporters will suddenly credit Trump with the success of Biden’s economy, same way they did in 2017 when Trump inherited Obama’s economy which under Trump’s management was running on fumes from late 2019 but apparently no one remembers that the real estate market was already tanking at least 6 months before the pandemic.

Stop thinking these people are rational. They are not. And their leaders are charlatans. It’s not Joe Biden’s fault.

by Anonymousreply 219October 20, 2024 5:23 PM

[quote]short of sending in US troops to aid Israel in burning children alive, which isn't happening under any circumstances, what could Trump possibly do for Israel that the Biden admin hasn't done already?

Ask Bibi Netanyahu, he's all in for Trump.

by Anonymousreply 220October 20, 2024 5:25 PM

R218, link?

by Anonymousreply 221October 20, 2024 5:26 PM

[QUOTE] Because Harris is the one who's second in command in an adminstration that's been using their tax dollars to fund a genocide on their family and friends, not Trump. What's so hard to understand?

[QUOTE]And I'm asking this in good faith: short of sending in US troops to aid Israel in burning children alive, which isn't happening under any circumstances, what could Trump possibly do for Israel that the Biden admin hasn't done already?

This could not have been said any better. Benjamin Netanyahu has made damn fools out of the Biden administration. There is absolutely nothing that would happen differently under Trump. They let that evil bastard Bibi do whatever the fuck he wants. Why would Muslims be gung ho about voting Democratic?

by Anonymousreply 222October 20, 2024 5:27 PM
Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 223October 20, 2024 5:27 PM

R220 Well that's more of a hypothetical than an established fact, unlike Biden admin's, to put it charitably, complicity in the genocide.

by Anonymousreply 224October 20, 2024 5:28 PM

[quote]There is absolutely nothing that would happen differently under Trump.

• While Biden is urging Netanyahu not to target Iran’s nuclear facilities in retaliation for Tehran’s recent missile attacks on Israel, Trump is urging him to “hit the nuclear first and worry about the rest later.”

•Biden wants to focus on day-after issues, like resuscitating peace negotiations that would lead to Palestinian statehood, something Netanyahu adamantly opposes. Trump is indifferent toward it, at best. His son-in-law and former top Mideast adviser, Jared Kushner, called that “a super-bad idea.”

• Netanyahu resented Biden’s decision to reinstate longtime American opposition to West Bank settlement expansion, which Trump lifted shortly before the 2020 election.

• After a year of intense bombing and war, Gaza is in ruins, but Kushner, a real estate developer bankrolled by the Saudis, sees an opportunity. He wants to “move the people out and then clean it up” to make way for the development of “very valuable” “waterfront property.”

Yeah, no difference at all.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 225October 20, 2024 5:30 PM

The only person who matters in NV is Ralston

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 226October 20, 2024 5:30 PM

Early voting seems much more interesting and positive than polls at this point, and it has actual data.

Something is happening -- it hasn't been talked about much -- but its mainly bad for Rs.

by Anonymousreply 227October 20, 2024 5:31 PM

Pull quote:

The Clark mail has posted: Dems won under 2-to-1, about 30,000-18,000. (I’ll round in the narrative part up here to make it easier to read, details in chart below.)

Dems have about an 1,800-voter lead statewide (this will change slightly with signature cures, but not by a lot). That is a huge difference from 2020, when the Dem lead statewide was 40,000 after one day.

by Anonymousreply 228October 20, 2024 5:32 PM

Damn, I'm in the wrong thread. Sorry.

by Anonymousreply 229October 20, 2024 5:32 PM

R218, it’s interesting how you fail to mention that most voters in Clark County vote by mail which skews Democratic.

by Anonymousreply 230October 20, 2024 5:33 PM

Well R216, the Israeli/Palestinian conflict did not begin last year. It’s been going on for nearly 5 decades or more. The U.S. has been provided security aid probably for all of that time. So the idea that we’re just all of a sudden going to cut off aid and desert the Israeli people overnight is pretty preposterous. But it’s more likely to happen under Harris than any other administration in U.S. history.

Do you consider Trump to be at all concerned about humanitarian aid to Gaza? They’d be lucky if he threw some rolls of paper towels at them. He doesn’t care. If given the chance, he’s going to support the hardline Zionists because they’re the ones keeping Netanyahu out of jail. And he’s all for a war with Iran.

Harris and Biden have an opportunity during the transition period - to a Harris administration - to play hardball with Netanyahu. Doing so before then is too politicised.

by Anonymousreply 231October 20, 2024 5:34 PM

R213 The Democrats always have a tougher sell and that’s why we have the more intelligent members of society on our side. Democrats present solutions to a complex world. Different groups and coalitions with different interests, occasionally conflicting. But it’s the best possible route. Republican philosophy is simple— Make money, don’t pay taxes, fuck bitches. It’s become even simpler now that they can ease off racism and bamboozle the jockey black and Latino alpha types, without offending their core white base. They are a polished, well manicured version of Cash Money Records.

by Anonymousreply 232October 20, 2024 5:34 PM

[quote] With MAGA it is baked in that the economy sucks, inflation is sky high, crime rates are at an all time high and the border is wide open with the largest amount of illegal crossings in the history of the world - this is pumped into their brains non-stop by MAGA politicians and corporate media.

Ah yes, R219, people are just imagining things.

by Anonymousreply 233October 20, 2024 5:35 PM

It’s even more interesting that you fail to note that my reference includes mail ballots.

by Anonymousreply 234October 20, 2024 5:35 PM

[quote] it wouldn’t have made any difference what Biden said.

Well, we'll never know. And I'm not talking - as are you - about the hardcore MAGAts. Clearly, nothing Biden could've said would've dented their thinking. But Trump's not in a position to win because of this group. It's because of non-MAGA Republicans & Independents.

by Anonymousreply 235October 20, 2024 5:40 PM

You reference did, not your post at R218.

by Anonymousreply 236October 20, 2024 5:47 PM

If you can’t Google a known entity like Jon Ralston, that’s on you

by Anonymousreply 237October 20, 2024 5:59 PM

Kamala wore a skirt today, for church. She’s going for it!

by Anonymousreply 238October 20, 2024 6:04 PM

[quote] Kamala wore a skirt today, for church. She’s going for it!

Did she wear panties?

by Anonymousreply 239October 20, 2024 6:06 PM

And minority men, like the Black man - who has always voted Democratic - just on MSNBC who said he's voting for the man who dodged the bullet, not the woman who dodged the question. And there's nothing Harris can do to earn his vote, as the ship has set sail on that.

by Anonymousreply 240October 20, 2024 6:12 PM

[Quote] Polls show an election that could be the 'closest since Bush v. Gore

Why do we care what the Polls say? Aren’t they DUMB? There are all those jokes about their dumbness.

by Anonymousreply 241October 20, 2024 6:17 PM

R235 that is because minorities have enjoyed a time of apparent equality to white people brought thanks to democrats. They are under the illusion that this going to stay this way and that nothing will change, that they have finally reached a status close to that of white peoples, specifically that of white men. We saw that openly wave of racism during Trump’s first term, in the second one it will be worse. Those are the very ones who will wish they didn’t voted for him. Sometimes in life people need to experience hardships to appreciate what they had.

by Anonymousreply 242October 20, 2024 6:31 PM

A lot of people are being vocal about who they want as president probably won't show up at the polls, probably aren't even registered.

by Anonymousreply 243October 20, 2024 7:05 PM

[quote] percentage of Democrat's voting early is significantly higher compared to Republicans.

Link.

by Anonymousreply 244October 20, 2024 7:08 PM

R242, that condescending attitude is really not helping.

by Anonymousreply 245October 20, 2024 7:08 PM

[quote] The Democrats always have a tougher sell and that’s why we have the more intelligent members of society on our side.

Talk about being a walking talking stereotype.

by Anonymousreply 246October 20, 2024 7:10 PM

R243, we don’t do probablies.

by Anonymousreply 247October 20, 2024 7:10 PM

[quote] The Clark mail has posted: Dems won under 2-to-1, about 30,000-18,000. (I’ll round in the narrative part up here to make it easier to read, details in chart below.)

The what now? And I’m not seeing a link.

by Anonymousreply 248October 20, 2024 7:11 PM

What weeks of early-voting data tell us about how Democrats and Republicans are turning out in 2024

As some battleground states start early voting, Virginia has been going for weeks. The data shows more interest in early voting from GOP areas this time.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 249October 20, 2024 7:13 PM

GOP Leads Democrats in Key Nevada County Amid Huge Early Voter Turnout

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 250October 20, 2024 7:14 PM

Remember when people reelected George Bush in 2004 and the UK headlines were how the US population could be this stupid?

by Anonymousreply 251October 20, 2024 7:16 PM

Can you read? Can you Google?

There is I’m early voting and mail-in in NV. Mail-in earlier on leans Democratic. In the aggregate, Democrats are well behind the trend in prior elections.

I swear, this is not rocket science. I guess this explains where we are…so many nice, well-intentioned folks who can comprehend much of anything.

by Anonymousreply 252October 20, 2024 7:16 PM

[quote] that condescending attitude is really not helping.

No one is suggesting it as a campaign slogan, and no major democrat is using it as one.

Are we not allowed to discuss the truth on discussion boards? Should we even think the truth for fearing of alienating voters? Or are we required to try to emulate their stupidity even in our private thoughts?

by Anonymousreply 253October 20, 2024 7:25 PM

"Remember when people reelected George Bush in 2004 and the UK headlines were how the US population could be this stupid?"

Remember September of 2008 when the stock and housing markets crashed, creating the Great Recession, and people were wondering why they voted for a moron like Dubya for president?

by Anonymousreply 254October 20, 2024 7:29 PM

Yes, R253, and the presumption of criminal innocence doesn't only apply to the judge/empaneled jury.

by Anonymousreply 255October 20, 2024 7:29 PM

R235, there’s no such thing as a non-MAGA Trump voter. There’s no “just visiting” border area of the MAGA party. If you’re voting for Trump, you’re buying into the MAGA bullshit.

The idea that there are still “Republicans” or independents who are holding their nose and voting for Trump, somehow avoiding the #ETTD taint is bullshit. They’re are licking his ass and enjoying the taste of it as much as any other Trump supporter.

We’re at the point now where this is all about turnout anyway. GOTV!

by Anonymousreply 256October 20, 2024 8:55 PM

[quote] there’s no such thing as a non-MAGA Trump voter.

For me, the MAGA voter is one who thinks Trump can do no wrong. They may represent 30-35% of the electorate. Trump is also getting the support of people who don't like him, maybe even hate him (I have a BIL who fits that bill), but are voting for him for various policy reasons.

by Anonymousreply 257October 20, 2024 8:59 PM

538 just updated their average of polls.

They now have Kamala at only +1.8 ahead of Trump.

At the end of August she was up +3.5

And RealClear now has Kamala at only +0.9

by Anonymousreply 258October 20, 2024 9:05 PM

Also from 538:

"Who Is Favored To Win The 2024 Presidential Election?"

In our simulations of the 2024 presidential election:

Trump wins 52 times out of 100

Harris wins 48 times out of 100.

by Anonymousreply 259October 20, 2024 9:07 PM

R259 that is a coin toss! Statistically,, it’s no different from 56 Harris, 44 Trump. That’s how it works.

Go work the margins, and stop the kvetching.

by Anonymousreply 260October 20, 2024 9:21 PM

[quote]GOP Leads Democrats in Key Nevada County Amid Huge Early Voter Turnout

Not all “registered GOP” are going to vote Trump. Many won’t.

by Anonymousreply 261October 20, 2024 10:26 PM

People have trouble accepting aging. As long as their faces stay plump (no full-length mirrors, please) and they can listen to oldies music on the radio, they think they're still young. They think Turd is still hosting "The Apprentice" and Melania is still a babe.

Trump is not who he was in 2016 or even 2020. If you were hiring for a CEO, Kamala would be the obvious choice. But the hillbillies think the monthly checks will start coming again from the genius billionaire.

by Anonymousreply 262October 20, 2024 10:44 PM

[quote] there’s no such thing as a non-MAGA Trump voter.

[quote] “We have the MAGA coalition,” one Trump official said. “But we also know that it is not enough. And so we need to form a broader coalition, mostly with people who have never voted before.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 263October 20, 2024 11:50 PM

We will win the House but we will be down one in the Senate unless we can flip a seat. We need a win in Maryland, and we need all the incumbents to be re-elected and that will put us down one because of West Virginia. We can only break even and hold what we have if we flip a seat. Maybe God will be kind and shit on Ted Cruz.

by Anonymousreply 264October 21, 2024 1:39 AM

The irrelevant Polymarket is showing their bettors are favoring Moreno in Ohio, but they are probably going to lose that bet. It's possible for Brown to lose, but seems unlikely. I think that's the only incumbent defeat they foresee, other than the obvious loss of Tester (and I'm not counting WV since I'm only referring to incumbents running for re-election).

by Anonymousreply 265October 21, 2024 1:52 AM

R264, we’re also in danger of losing the Michigan & Pennsylvania Senate races. I seriously doubt Cruz will lose. But I’d be most surprised if Maryland ends up in the Republican column.

by Anonymousreply 266October 21, 2024 1:55 AM

McCormack, the R Senate candidate in PA, is going to flame out even worse than Dr. Oz.

by Anonymousreply 267October 21, 2024 2:01 AM

R264^ your nightmare: the new House fails to choose a president after a non-majority vote in the EC, and the new Senate elects JDVance as VP. He would be the be acting Pres. on Jan. 20

by Anonymousreply 268October 21, 2024 2:08 AM

McCormack would have to count on Trump's coattails.

by Anonymousreply 269October 21, 2024 2:08 AM

The AtlasIntel poll now has McCormack in the lead, R267. I don’t remember Oz ever having a polling lead in ‘22.

by Anonymousreply 270October 21, 2024 2:11 AM

Prof. Marvel had a lead… until that October tornado surprise.

by Anonymousreply 271October 21, 2024 2:13 AM

The Atlas poll is garbage.

by Anonymousreply 272October 21, 2024 2:13 AM

If Casey doesn't hold PA, there's no chance Harris takes it.

by Anonymousreply 273October 21, 2024 2:19 AM

Sorry, I didn't see R272. Does seem unlikely Casey won't hold PA.

by Anonymousreply 274October 21, 2024 2:20 AM

[quote] will be down one in the Senate unless we can flip a seat. We need a win in Maryland, and we need all the incumbents to be re-elected

Won't happen because Jon Tester won't be re-elected in Montana. The polls have Tester down by 7 or 8 points.

by Anonymousreply 275October 21, 2024 2:54 AM

These fuckers:

Miriam Adelson and Elon Musk Hope Israel, and $175 Million, Will Swing the Election for Trump

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 276October 21, 2024 3:17 AM

Evil evil creeps who should be deported.

by Anonymousreply 277October 21, 2024 3:25 AM

Israel is as bad as Russia when it comes to election interference.

Same difference.

by Anonymousreply 278October 21, 2024 3:27 AM

Miriam Adelson sucks cocks in hell.

by Anonymousreply 279October 21, 2024 3:36 AM

David Pakman on the MAGA manosphere and "toxic masculinity":

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 280October 21, 2024 3:49 AM

So in an effort to highlight his claim that Kamala Harris never worked at McDonald’s, Trump pretended to work at a closed McDonald’s where he served pretend orders to supporters pretending to be customers. Hopefully the fries weren’t cold.

Got it ! 👍🏼

by Anonymousreply 281October 21, 2024 3:57 AM

I heard that Kamala Harris isn't black and she never worked at McDonald's and that she was born in Kenya...

by Anonymousreply 282October 21, 2024 4:06 AM

She’s not black. She’s actually a Hindu who wants to destroy all cows.

by Anonymousreply 283October 21, 2024 4:10 AM

The White House will smell like curry if Kamala Harris gets elected!

by Anonymousreply 284October 21, 2024 4:12 AM

She now is become Death, the destroyer of worlds!

by Anonymousreply 285October 21, 2024 4:13 AM

R165, I wrote the attack you cite. I thought about it and yes, I came at you hard. You wrote what you wrote so it's not for me to argue the semantics. If you intended to talk about the country's significance in the world conceptually, I'll take you on faith, while asking for clemency since it didn't read that way to me. But, you get to call the shots on your intention, 100%.

Where I was coming from was truthfully more frustration than disdain, however it sounded late at night and with so much on the line for all of us. I will not deny the country astounds me. I have theories, most of which would probably offend or confound you, about why it is the way it is, but whatever the reason I am still sadly amazed that Donald Trump could be performing as well as he is at all, let alone after his behaviour through the campaign. So add that to the pile of school shootings and gun issues and racism and racial divide and abortion and poverty rates and I hope you will cut me the slack of having my head explode at your assertion that your home country "symbolically represent(s) something very important to the world" because as an outsider, well... there are representative democracies all around the world and have been for centuries. The United Kingdom, as an example, was a constitutional monarchy by the time of the American Revolution. In America as late as 1789 only 6% of the population was eligible to vote because the right to vote was limited to property-owning or tax-paying white males. I'm not even going to tackle the rest of the problem with all men being created equal.

I'm honestly not cunting on you here - since I'm writing this I get to assure you in complete honesty there's no scorn, just an outsider's weariness, but I'm not gonna pretend in being rude and unnecessarily forceful in my response that I don't think there are significant gaps in your position as per R114 and R165.

This morning in the WaPo, Max Boot wrote:

"American voters tend be pretty parochial in their approach to elections, focusing on domestic issues above all. I’m not sure if enough of them are fully aware of the stakes in this presidential election. The choice between Vice President Kamala Harris and former president Donald Trump is a referendum not only on America’s future but also on the entire world’s.

The United States remains by far by the most powerful country in the world: It spends more on defense than the next 10 countries combined, and its economic output accounts for roughly one-quarter of the global total. What America does matters. A lot.

In the 1930s, the United States pursued a policy of protectionism and isolationism. No coincidence, World War II soon followed. Germany’s and Japan’s neighbors were too weak to deter and defeat those fascist dictatorships on their own. They desperately needed American help, and they did not receive it until it was nearly too late.

After 1945 in the United States, the greatest generation sought to rectify that mistake by constructing a new world order based on free-trade pacts and security alliances. That approach was staggeringly successful: Democracy and prosperity spread around the world. Great power conflict has been averted. The United States has been the biggest beneficiary among major nations of the international system that it created along with its allies: U.S. gross domestic product per capita in 2023 was $73,600, compared with just $39,800 for Russia and $22,100 for China."

This is a clinical, accurate description of the state of things that did not stir in me any desire to come across the table at Max Boot the way I did in response to you, lacking as it did the romanticism about the facts. Often I find, even on liberal bastion DL, many of you confuse force with strength when it comes to America's place in the world and place in history. That perception fuelled my response to you, R165, and I actually feel bad that it felt like or was an attack, so I apologize for that.

by Anonymousreply 286October 21, 2024 12:27 PM

R284 You know it’s funny when racist white people like Loomer say idiotic shit like that. What exactly would be wrong with that though? Curry smells mad good.

by Anonymousreply 287October 21, 2024 12:40 PM

Yes R257 - made up MAGA policy reasons. /smh

by Anonymousreply 288October 21, 2024 1:05 PM

[quote ]but are voting for him for various policy reasons.

People who say they are voting for the orange dotard for "policy reasons" are just dressing up their ignorance of the economy, what it is and what controls it, inflation what it is and what controls it.

Strictly going by the publicly available numbers, The Dump administration failed on every metric of the economy. Every single one.

If they say "The Border" Dump's border policy was non existent beyond a promise of a neve built wall that Mexico would pay for and ineffective and ultimately dangerous as well as ineffective punitive measures such as family separation etc. What he tried on the border failed. What he promised on the border never happened.

so this "policy fig leaf" people like to throw up is either to disguise ignorance or simply liking the grievance driven energy of Dump and his ilk.

All to say Dump has NO POLICIES of any kind.. It's all what his whim is that day and what matches his deep need for revenge

Call these policy queens out, they are as fraudulent as Dump himself.

by Anonymousreply 289October 21, 2024 2:25 PM

R289 is exactly right.

That's why this linked thread was created. To set the record straight.

Some FACTS:

[bold]Here's Donald Trump's RECORD for people who tell you that "he was a good President"

Trump’s continuously repeated falsehoods about his record as president have convinced many people who find him to be a horrible person, but nevertheless support him because of what Trump says about his term in office.

“Yes, I know, he’s 78, he’s not as sharp as he used to be, he lies all the time, he has cheated on his wives, he makes racist comments, he is a convicted felon, and he tried to carry out a coup after he lost the last elections. But he was a good president,” a Republican friend told me recently.

Let me share with you some facts to help fight political amnesia. In fact, Trump was one of the worst presidents in recent history. Here are the facts:

A larger deficit

On the economy, Trump left the biggest deficit in U.S. history.

Under Trump, the national debt grew much faster than during his successor Joe Biden. Like most populists, Trump cut taxes and spent as if there were no tomorrow, leaving a national debt that will have to be paid by our children and grandchildren for decades.

The national debt rose by almost $7.8 trillion to $28 trillion during Trump’s four years in office, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. The debt has kept growing since, but at a significantly slower pace.

As for the country’s economic growth, the U.S. economy under Trump grew by an overall 6.8%. By comparison, it grew by 8.4% in the Biden years.

On the jobs’ front, Trump left office with 3 million fewer jobs than there were when he entered the White House. Granted, that was largely because of the pandemic, but Biden has added nearly 16 million jobs since then.

Granted, inflation was lower under Trump than under Biden. The pandemic disrupted supply chains from China and made consumer prices soar in America in 2021 and 2022. But inflation has since fallen to 2.4%, close to its pre-pandemic levels.

A weakened democracy

On democracy, Trump undermined democratic institutions and the rule of law like no other American president in recent memory. He is the first U.S. president I can remember who tried to stage a coup d’etat to stay in power.

Trump falsely claims to this day that he won the 2020 election, even after more than 60 courts and the conservative-majority Supreme Court found his objections to be unsubstantiated.

Then, he tacitly tried to incite rebellion on Jan. 6, 2021, when he waited for hours before trying to stop a pro-Trump mob from invading the U.S. Capitol in hopes of overturning the election result. He continues to praise the violent rioters who injured more than 100 police officers, calling them “patriots” and government “hostages.”

Emboldening dictators

On foreign policy, Trump weakened America’s standing in the world by picking fights with the closest U.S. allies while at the same time embracing dictators such as Russia’s Vladimir Putin and North Korea’s Kim Jong Un.

Trump withdrew from the Paris Climate Accord and threatened to abandon the U.S.-European NATO military alliance. Trump’s threats to leave NATO significantly damaged the group’s unity and probably encouraged Putin to plan his 2022 invasion of Ukraine.

Trump deserves credit for the Abraham Accords to help establish diplomatic ties between Israel and some Arab countries. But if you look at the world in terms of superpower-led blocs, Trump left power in 2020 with a weaker Western alliance and a stronger China and Russia.[/bold]

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 290October 21, 2024 2:32 PM

More fun facts from the above linked thread:

[bold]Reproductive rights

On abortion, Trump appointed three conservative Supreme Court judges who played a crucial role in overturning Roe v. Wade, a ruling that had made abortions legal in the country for nearly 50 years. As a result, some states banned abortions, and some women reportedly died because they could not get proper medical care to end their pregnancies.

On crime, hate crimes increased by 28% during Trump’s term and hate-motivated murders, mainly committed by white supremacists, reached their highest number in 28 years, according to FBI statistics.

Trump has exacerbated racial hatred in the country since he started his 2016 campaign falsely declaring that most Mexican undocumented immigrants are “rapists” and are “bringing crime” to America. In 2017, he said that there were “very fine people” among white supremacists and the anti-racism demonstrators who were protesting against them in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Trump’s racist statements have worsened since. He recently falsely claimed that Haitian immigrants are eating the pets of Americans in Springfield, Ohio. In an Oct. 7 radio interview, Trump said that unauthorized migrants who committed violent crimes have “bad genes,” a language reminiscent of Adolf Hitler’s efforts to dehumanize Jews.

Also, in 2020, the last year of the Trump presidency, there was the biggest one-year increase in the number of murders since the 1960s, according the Politifact fact checking website. In addition to the pandemic and the George Floyd riots, Democrats attribute the 30% rise in murders to the relaxation of gun control laws under Trump.

False border promises

On immigration, Trump never completed the border fence nor got Mexico to pay for it, as he had promised in his 2016 campaign. Trump now claims to have built much of the current 654 miles of border wall, but most of it was already in place and repaired or upgraded during his years in office, according to Customs and Border Protection data.

On the COVID-19 Pandemic, Trump scorned face masks and at one point asked Americans to inject themselves with disinfectant to fight the virus. Scientists say many of the 400,000 Covid deaths during his presidency could have been averted if he had exhorted people to get vaccinated.

The list of Trump administration failures goes on and on. So if you are planning to vote for Trump because of something specific he has promised, and you are willing to believe a compulsive liar, go ahead. But please don’t tell me he was a good president: he was a disaster on virtually all fronts.[/bold]

by Anonymousreply 291October 21, 2024 2:32 PM

Get a fucking blog, Karen. Jesus.

by Anonymousreply 292October 21, 2024 2:37 PM

[quote]A Democrat would could never do that shit because anti-government is not built into the Democratic brand. Everything is about branding.

Idiot.

by Anonymousreply 293October 21, 2024 2:38 PM

We still have no clear idea of how much money Trump and his family stole from the US Treasury while they were in office.

For that reason alone, he should be barred from entering the Oval Office again.

by Anonymousreply 294October 21, 2024 2:40 PM

He should be executed for treason.

by Anonymousreply 295October 21, 2024 2:45 PM

This discussion is much too intelligent for your feeble little diseased MAGAT brain, R292.

Perhaps you should go get fucked by a chainsaw instead, you FUCKING CUNT.

by Anonymousreply 296October 21, 2024 2:48 PM

R296 would like to speak to the manager.

by Anonymousreply 297October 21, 2024 2:49 PM

Most companies allow employees to refuse to deal with customers who talk like that.

by Anonymousreply 298October 21, 2024 2:51 PM

In October 2016, Pussygate had just happened. I wonder how many people had already early-voted when that broke? And his molestation victims had just spoke out but people thought it was a political stunt. Stormygate had yet to happen...

Women don't like affairs and rape. They came out in 2020 and fired him, and I hope they come out even stronger in 2024.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 299October 21, 2024 3:02 PM

The daughter of Michigan’s only president, Gerald R. Ford, has endorsed Vice President Kamala Harris.

The youngest child of the late Republican president, Susan Ford Bales, issued the endorsement Monday, Oct. 21, saying that while she and Harris may disagree on policy, the Democratic presidential candidate will “defend the rule of law and our Constitution.”

Like her father, Ford Bales is a registered Republican.

by Anonymousreply 300October 21, 2024 3:16 PM

Early voting wasn't a thing the way it is now back in 2016. It was absentee voting and you needed a medical condition, were in the miliary, or out of the control to apply. Early voting became a nationwide thing thanks to the pandemic, so r299, we're living in different times than 8 years ago. White women broke for Trump in 2020 in huge numbers.

by Anonymousreply 301October 21, 2024 3:24 PM

No one cares about daughters of former presidents. lol The Fords weren't even Republicans of today. They were old Rockefeller Republicans, very progressive. Reagan changed all of that.

by Anonymousreply 302October 21, 2024 3:25 PM

R291 You put in all that effort, but guess what? People will ask themselves: was I better under Trump/Pence or was I better under Biden/Harris.

And they'll vote accordingly.

by Anonymousreply 303October 21, 2024 3:41 PM

For better or worse…

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 304October 21, 2024 3:48 PM

[quote][ R291] You put in all that effort, but guess what? People will ask themselves: was I better under Trump/Pence or was I better under Biden/Harris. And they'll vote accordingly.

I am not r291, but keep in mind , conversations like these and the details that r291 has listed HELP people remember what it was really like under Dump/Pence and that can move a voter. There are persuadable arguments for a sane vote (Harris Walz) and tools to dismantle delusions like "things were ok under trump"

So I agree with your point but disagree that facts are of no consequence WHEN people are reminded of them.

by Anonymousreply 305October 21, 2024 4:54 PM

Let me tell you something. When I read that Adelman and Elon are shelling out all these millions I have to wonder how much of it is going into Trump's pockets. Because $175 Million would be way too much for Trump to ignore. It would certainly claim Lara's attention. And let's not even think what Melania would do for $175 Million.

by Anonymousreply 306October 21, 2024 5:16 PM

R305 exactly who are they making these reminders and arguments to? Does anyone really think a lot of DL are voting for trump?

They are making their long argument that there is a heaven at a born again Christian convention. A waste of time.

by Anonymousreply 307October 21, 2024 5:22 PM

r306 here again: Also wanted to point out how Clinton's loss in 2016 and Brexit were both caused, essentially, by people embracing the incorrect notion of the inevitable. People in the UK didn't get out to vote "remain" because it was fucking raining that day.

Both Trump and Brexit are products of intense Russian influence

People, enough people are more aware now

by Anonymousreply 308October 21, 2024 5:25 PM

[quote] conversations like these and the details that [R291] has listed HELP people remember what it was really like under Dump/Pence and that can move a voter.

It’s silly to suggest that people lack information about Trump or his administration, or they have faulty memory of it. Individuals had individual experiences and feelings which are going to differ from person to person. During his administration, you had people who have stated that faced every day with dread and had to get psychoanalysis, while others happily went about their lives (until Covid struck). That huge difference in viewpoints is the same now as it was then, and the list of things that cause some to draw up their escape plans and double their dose of Xanax is still going to be dismissed or downweighted by his voters. Different people can look at the same thing and see it differently.

by Anonymousreply 309October 21, 2024 5:28 PM

R286, I am not some nationalist beating my chest about the greatness of America. As you stated, it's greatness speaks for itself given the facts you mentioned. I probably wouldn't be confounded or offended by what some of your theories maybe as to the current state of the country. I have my own, which probably surpass yours in insight and depth given my first hand experience of the place having lived there most of my life. I now live abroad, outside of America. And the position on America's importance in the world was not something I grew up with. Yes, theoretically I heard it growing up, being "the greatest" yada yada yada. But the point of view I stated was expressed to me, here in Italy, in class with students from all around the world. So that is the reason why I said it is a world view. People from other first world nations are distressed by what they see happening in America. Because as you say, what happens there does affect the rest of the world.

As as far as the IDEA of America and what it stands for, it is exactly that. The idea of it is important. I am not talking about how it has historically been practiced. I am black - so I am very well aware of the uneven application of the idea to the nation itself overall. BUT historically, in its progression, America has been a place, that through the expansion of rights, has tried to move closer to its ideals. A Trump win would represent a cap on that expansion and a move backwards.

And it's not just about Democracy, as in the other nations you have pointed out, that existed way before America. It is about a nation that isn't founded on any homogeneous culture, religion, hierarchy of nobility or class system. That people from all around the world can come to America from whatever culture, background, religion and reinvent themselves without the limitations mentioned above. No matter how rich you are in GB, to this day, if you aren't born into nobility, you don't have access to that world. This again is the IDEA. Not the practice, by far, in the United States. But the IDEA that a country like America exists is important to the world.

by Anonymousreply 310October 21, 2024 5:55 PM

[quote]No matter how rich you are in GB, to this day, if you aren't born into nobility, you don't have access to that world.

That's just laughable it's so untrue. You have this romantic view of worlds that don't exist any more. Enjoy your point of view, Ashley Wilkes.

by Anonymousreply 311October 21, 2024 6:05 PM

R308, you are not R306. I am. But I agree with you post at 308.

by Anonymousreply 312October 21, 2024 7:55 PM

[quote]No matter how rich you are in GB, to this day, if you aren't born into nobility, you don't have access to that world. This again is the IDEA. Not the practice, by far, in the United States. But the IDEA that a country like America exists is important to the world.

I think we have reached apotheosis of totally uninformed, chauvinistic American commentary on the UK with this post. The fact that you streamed the complete episodes of Downton Abbey does not mean you are an expert on British society. Social mobility in the UK is higher than in the US based on any reputable study, and, our civil rights are at least as well respected in the UK as in the US.

Only a very small position of the UK population is noble. So, you are essentially saying that 95 percent or so of the UK population lives in some kind of serfdom, which is absurd.

by Anonymousreply 313October 21, 2024 8:55 PM

I know, R313, but she says it so wistfully, like she writes with a feather. You can almost hear the scratch on the parchment. Very Lucy Honeychurch.

by Anonymousreply 314October 21, 2024 8:58 PM

Meanwhile back on planet Earth, early voting has broken all previous records.

Keep pushing that horserace nonsense, OP. Lord knows we all need the pointless stress right now.

by Anonymousreply 315October 21, 2024 9:02 PM

Now to make sure GOP doesnt steal it.

by Anonymousreply 316October 21, 2024 9:05 PM

Why are you blaming the op, R315?

This is an NBC News article.

by Anonymousreply 317October 21, 2024 9:21 PM

[quote]Why are you blaming the op, R315?

Why am i blaming you? Because sharing this horserace nonsense makes you an active participant in passing on false narratives.

by Anonymousreply 318October 21, 2024 9:30 PM

[quote] Because sharing this horserace nonsense makes you an active participant in passing on false narratives.

Stating or suggesting that polling is invalid because you don’t like the results is definitely promoting a false narrative.

by Anonymousreply 319October 21, 2024 9:51 PM

R313, Silly, I didn't say serftdom. I just said it's something you can never access no matter how much money you have. Even though a ton of what's left of the nobility is poor as shit. It's still not something you can buy your way into.

by Anonymousreply 320October 21, 2024 10:12 PM

R318, if this "this horserace nonsense" serves to keep Democrats from being complacent, let's keep it up by all means.

by Anonymousreply 321October 21, 2024 10:49 PM

R320 doesn't understand the peerage, either.

by Anonymousreply 322October 21, 2024 11:34 PM
Loading
Need more help? Click Here.

Yes indeed, we too use "cookies." Take a look at our privacy/terms or if you just want to see the damn site without all this bureaucratic nonsense, click ACCEPT. Otherwise, you'll just have to find some other site for your pointless bitchery needs.

×

Become a contributor - post when you want with no ads!