Christopher Columbus probably Spanish and Jewish, study says

Jews also claim Elvis through his mother.

Oy, now the figure most closely associated with colonial exploits and the destruction of indigenous peoples is Jewish?

R1, I don’t think Jews are ‘claiming’ Columbus.

It is fascinating how many media companies made this a priority story today. The BBC had it as their second story. The inference highlighted by R2 is clear.

It's a shanda for the goyim!

R2 I always knew he wasn’t Italian. He came from Italy after migrating there. He wasn’t FROM there.

This "study" hasn't been peer reviewed. And just because his dna corresponds to a type that is common in a region doesn't mean he is not from somewhere else. When I can't sleep I read about archaeology and dna, and this sounds more like a revelation made for tv than anything else.

“And just because his dna corresponds to a type that is common in a region doesn't mean he is not from somewhere else.“

That would literally mean he is genetically tied to the region his dna links to. Modern people don’t seem to understand how genetics and dna works. “White” isn’t one race.

Old news. Queen Isabella noted in her diary that he was cut.

Right-- he might be "genetically tied" to Spain, but his family might have lived in Genoa for generations. DNA isn't going to show where he grew up. I don't have a dog in this fight, but I am always skeptical of history tv shows that make major revelations based on data they won't share.

And just like that, Christopher Columbus became the first-ever Jew to believably play an Italian.

What are Italians really?

Last time I checked. Genoa was in Western Europe and full of people from all ports fucking and mixing DNA with locals.

R9 exactly. DNA shows what you actually are. Not where you moved to. That’s how it works.

[quote] all ports fucking

Pics please.

R13 misses the point, by a mile.

R15 no, you seem to be missing the point. Your dna is based on your ancestral lineage, not where you were born.

In 1800 if two Germans migrated to Italy and had a child their child is genetically German, not Italian.

r16 is correct. Some of you are fucking retarded.

R16 and 17 don’t get that the point here is that “actual” genes matter less. If his family lived in Genoa for generations and he was not a practicing Jew, then his DNA is not relevant to his own story—he’s Italian. You’re reading too much into a leading headline. Unless he never actually lived in Italy—pretending to be an Italian in Spain—this is a nothingburger. It wouldn’t inform any of the historical co text.

*context

R18 no, he’s genetically Jewish.

Which is meaningless out of context.

The Italians are gonna lose it. They’ve been fighting to protect his legacy in America and preserve his holiday as a slice of Italian tradition and all this time he’s a Jew?

R1 we also claim Jesus through HIS mother.

Jews were an integral part of Italy.

There were Jewish ghettos in Rome, Florence, Lucca, Venice...

[quote] If his family lived in Genoa for generations and he was not a practicing Jew, then his DNA is not relevant to his own story—he’s Italian.

Not ethnically. That's the whole point. I see this as just a curiosity and nothing political.

Sephardic?

Bullshit.

Oh, Gen Z is gonna loooove this.

Blaming Jews for massacring and raping Natives. Because of course. 🙄

The Jews in Italy consider themselves Italian. They're Italian. The mayor of Rome in the early 1900s was a Jew.

Primo Livi, Alberto Moravia, Rita Levi-Montalcini. Look them up.

They'll probably discover Columbus was queer too!

If this shuts all the idiot Italian-Americans up about worshiping this asshole, I'm all for it.

Spoiler: I'm sure it won't.

Bullshit.

All that has been determined is that Columbus was Western European.

Right on R11

The explorers started heading west because the Cape of Good Hope route had become too dangerous because of Barbary pirates, so it is all the muslims' fault.

The face of a DLer.

I grew up in an Irish/Italian/Jewish neighborhood in NYC the 70s. We all knew this back in the 70s.

They've discussed this for decades - the whole "I'm from Italy" thing was weird and not confirmed IIRC.

For Jews, everyone knows that 1492 was not just Columbus trip to the new world, but it was also the year that Jews were expelled from Spain.

There were a lot of conversos and others who hid their identity to escape Spanish Inquisition and the new laws.

I saw his segment on Finding Your Roots. He is a biological cousin of Shecky Greene.

Although there are lots of places on the planet where the people were relatively isolated until the 19th or 20th century and DNA can identify their geographical places of origins, none of that is true for the seacoasts of the Mediterranean, which have been heavily traveled at least since 1000 BCE. Wherever there are ships, soldiers, and merchants, gene sharing is a thing, and there is no definitive DNA characteristic that is going to tie someone to a specific place along those coasts. Many parts of Italy were settled by Greeks, and Greeks also settled in many parts of the Middle East along the coast. The Phoenicians, whose origin lay probably in the area currently known as northern Israel and in the country currently known as Lebanon, sailed all over the Mediterranean, and established colonies in Spain and in particular on the coast of North Africa as Carthage. During the Roman Empire, Roman legions were traveling constantly over the entire Mediterranean. Jews were active as merchants during the time of the Roman Empire and had established communities in Turkey, Greece, the Italian peninsula, and possibly the Iberian peninsula as well as North Africa. If these findings are verified by further research, and Columbus's DNA proves that he had at least some Jewish forebears and possibly mostly Jewish forebears, that doesn't establish a location for his birth. There are apparently records at least of his father in Genoa, a man named Domenico Colombo.

The Spanish Inquisition began 25 years after Columbus' birth so it's unlikely that his parents, if Sephardic, were Spanish Jews fleeing the inquisition, although there were occasionally other anti-Jewish hostilities in Spain before that. There's speculation, but I don't even know how it could be proven, that Columbus was living in Valencia that whole time, and continually imploring the King and Queen of Spain to finance an expedition to the "indies" from 1786 up until the very year that Jews were expelled from Spain. That seems unlikely to me. If staying in Spain as a converso in 1492 marked a person for suspicion under the auspices of Ferdinand and Isabella, why would someone in such a precarious position be constantly petitioning them for money? That seems incredibly dangerous and foolhardy to me. Plus, he was already married to a Portuguese noblewoman by that time, and certainly if his family had been practicing Jews, that would have been an impossibility - both on his family's religious grounds, and on the side of his wife's family.

[quote] I grew up in an Irish/Italian/Jewish neighborhood in NYC the 70s. We all knew this back in the 70s.

No, hon.

[quote] There were a lot of conversos

Oh, dear, you’re an idiot.

Jews are the original evil colonists! We told you!

They all look white to me

Spot on R36.

There was no country called "Italy" in the 15th century.

r46 we all know what is meant by "Italian."

Christopher Columbstein it is

He wasn't a Heeb.

What was Lieutenant Colombo trying to tell us all along

Whatever

R10- Whatabout me?

This story has been around for many years. I'm inclined to believe it. I grew up in CT and I believe I heard this in the 70s.

So, he was cut as well as syphilitic?

It would seem like a good case but unfortunately he kept up a large correspondence during his life with people in Genoa that a Catalan Jew would not have known.

The can't test his DNA because they don't know where his body is.

It's a weird holiday because it's federal but stores are open, some schools are open, a lot of offices are open. Confusing.

[quote] This story has been around for many years. I'm inclined to believe it. I grew up in CT and I believe I heard this in the 70s.

You heard a rumor in the 70s so it’s true. A rumor about a person centuries dead? Lemme guess, you also believe that Cleopatra was black.

There was an episode of The Sopranos where they celebrated Columbus as an Italian, had a protest or something—I don’t remember the details, it was one of their weakest episodes.

Those poor islanders - imagine not having the word for “Neapolitan dick” when they saw circumcised penises….

I don't know why Italians have always been proud of Columbus and celebrated him, he was a monster.

Netanyahu's dad thought it might be true.

The past is a foreign country, R61; they do things differently there.

The first federally declared individual Columbus Day came through tragic circumstances. In New Orleans in 1891, police chief David Hennessy was murdered under suspicious circumstances. 11 Italian Americans were arrested in connection with his murder. Most were common citizens and workers, but rumors spread that they were connected to what became known as the Italian Mafia (the term mafia actually came into common usage through this incident). Most of the 11 were eventually acquitted of the murder, but had been released from jail due to some other matters. A lynch mob had then been incited by political leaders with anti-Italian sentiments, and the mob raided the jail and killed the 11 Italians in what was the largest mass lynching in American history.

President Benjamin Harrison Made Amends Statue of Christopher Columbus, New York Statue of Christopher Columbus, New York Get the latest articles delivered to your inbox Sign up to our Free Weekly Newsletter

Afterward, anti-Italian sentiment increased to the level that Italy withdrew its chief diplomat to the United States and rumors of potential war between the U.S. and Italy circulated. President Benjamin Harrison, cognizant of the political ramifications both domestically and internationally, wanted to make some sort of amends. First, he provided reparations to the families of the men who were murdered.

Then, in 1892, he declared October 12 to be Columbus Day as a partial apology and to ease tensions between the United States and Italy and the Italian-American Community. The declaration successfully served its purpose, to the point that Italy gifted the U.S. with a statue of Christopher Columbus which was unveiled to massive celebration by Italian Americans. Other celebrations occurred through the years, mostly celebrated by Italian-Americans within their communities, particularly in New York City and San Francisco, California.

In 1966, journalist and politician Mariano Lucca from Buffalo, New York began the National Columbus Day Committee and lobbied Congress to declare a federal holiday in honor of Christopher Columbus. Lucca was the son of a Sicilian immigrant and came from the large Italian-American community in New York. Through his efforts, Columbus Day was finally declared an annual federal holiday throughout the United States, beginning in 1971.

[quote] the figure most closely associated with colonial exploits and the destruction of indigenous peoples

¿Que?

r63 I said I don't understand why Columbus is still celebrated in the present day. He's not someone who should be celebrated.

That is interesting about the origin of Columbus Day^^ I had always thought it came about because Catholics more generally wanted a federal holiday celebrating a Catholic “hero.”

I know his type!

I have it on extremely reliable source that Christopher Columbus was not a Jew and his penis was intact--as in--not mutilated!

No mail delivery tomorrow, boys.

Your Social Security check will be a day late.

Fuck Louis DeJoy

The “Christopher Columbus is a Jew” Study was sponsored by the Mel Gibson Foundation

Growing up I knew a Jewish family named Columbus.

I believe the claim is his name was Cristobal Colon.

Dominican Republic says they have his real remains in Santo Domingo, so what DNA exists in Seville is of no consequence.

Is the ethnicity of a man who conquered a land over 400 years ago on behalf of Spain a big deal?

And yes, hun, at r whatever, we learned in the 70s that while Columbus was from Italy, he was probably a Sephartic Jew. He was still “Italian. “

OP's article doesn't say Columbus was ethnically Spanish (beyond the title, which was not written by the same person who wrote the article). It says that these researchers believe he was born in Valencia and grew up in Spain.

[quote]But they now believe he lived in Spain - likely in Valencia - and was Jewish. They think he hid his background to avoid persecution.

"I can get the New World for you - wholesale!!!"

It's ok, r22, the Italians have still got Amerigo Vespucci (I mean actual Italians, not people in the US with an Italian background).

It's all guesswork anyway, and other scientists aren't convinced. All the supposed DNA of Columbus supposedly shows is that he was from the Western Mediterranean. Valence is just based on assumptions.

[quote]“The DNA indicates that Christopher Columbus’s origin lay in the western Mediterranean,” said the researcher. “If there weren’t Jews in Genoa in the 15th century, the likelihood that he was from there is minimal. Neither was there a big Jewish presence in the rest of the Italian peninsula, which makes things very tenuous.”

[quote]Given that there were no solid theories nor clear indications that Columbus could have been French, Lorente added, the search area narrowed still further.

[quote]“We’re left with the Spanish Mediterranean area, the Balearic islands and Sicily. But Sicily would be strange because then Christopher Columbus would have been written with some trace of Italian or the Sicilian language. That all means that his most likely origin is in the Spanish Mediterranean area or the Balearic islands which belonged to the crown of Aragón at the time.”

As for Columbus being Jewish, from the article at r79.

[quote]José Antonio Lorente, a forensic medical expert at the University of Granada who has led the research, said his analysis had revealed that Columbus’s DNA was “compatible” with a Jewish origin.

[quote]“We have very partial, but sufficient, DNA from Christopher Columbus,” he said. “We have DNA from his son Fernando Colón, and in both the Y [male] chromosome and mitochondrial DNA [transmitted by the mother] of Fernando there are traces compatible with a Jewish origin.”

It's not even 100% secure that the remains in Seville Cathedral are of Columbus. Then, the DNA is only partial and there are only traces "compatible" with a Jewish origin. From that shaky foundation, Lorente guesses that Columbus may have been Spanish because there weren't that many Jews in Italy at the time. The fact that he was legally Catholic and buried in a Cathedral means he must have hidden his Jewish origins. It's all very tenuous.

Jews Will Not Replace Us!

(oops - scratch that)

I assumed he was from the Bronx.

But was he white?

[quote] I don't know why Italians have always been proud of Columbus and celebrated him, he was a monster.

Because the US government made them. Look up the history of Columbus Day and you’ll understand. Italian-Americans were treated like shit. The US government decided to give them a day, Christopher Columbus Day. It was an olive branch.

These articles are all clickbait. No where is there any evidence that he was Jewish and the study wasn’t even peer-reviewed. They put out this shit to coincide with holidays. It’s stupid.

All this article says is he has some genetic markers that could be compatible with some Jewish origin, which could also just be shared genetic markers that Jews and a whole bunch of other Mediterranean ethnicities share. Historians have looked at this claim and the life/origins of Columbus extensively and concluded it is false. This claim isn’t new at all, it’s quite old and just is not supported by the evidence. There were some conversos amongst the crew and officers of his initial voyage for sure, but Columbus wasn’t Jewish. I really don’t get the obsession some people have with trying to make that into a thing.

Ah yes, this sudden emergent theory right at the most perfect political moment to frame Jews as responsible for moral atrocity. Right when public consciousness on the horrors of Columbus’s actions really enters the zeitgeist. Great way to solidify indigenous contempt to Jews by adding their greatest villain to their history as “suddenly discovered” to be one of ours. This could not be more convenient to a narrative that now centers whiteness with Jews as the primary perpetrators of it. “It was the Jews all along! What other horrors of history can we link to them? Trail of tears? Jim Crowe? Salem witch trials?”

OPhas been blocked because they are an asshole. Why are they an asshole? Because they COPY PASTE ENTIRE ARTICLES and make this place hard to read and navigate. OP is a self-serving cunt. 🚫

P.S. I checked, OP. You are the only one who does this annoying shit on the regular.

The tomb of Columbus/Colon, or rather the place where his remains lie was resolved in the same study: Seville.

A massive tomb in the cathedral of Seville has held what were thought to be his remains since 1899, but he got around in death as in life, before entombment in the cathedral, his remains - or what were thought to be- were variously in Valladolid, Spain, in Havana, in Santo Domingo, in the monastery of the Cartuja de Sevilla...

He was moved enough to create uncertainty about whose bones they were.

When I was a kid, I assumed Abraham Lincoln was Jewish. He looked kind of Jewish and all the Abes in my neighborhood were.

R84 is ridiculous. It was Italian-American businesss and cultural groups who sought out a “day” to show their pride. It only became a full federal holiday in 1971.

R91 - It became a full federal holiday on the 2nd Monday of October in 1971, but it had been commemorated previous to then.

[quote]During the latter half of the 19th century, the day had begun to be celebrated in cities with large numbers of Italian Americans, and in 1937 it became an annual federal holiday by presidential proclamation.

R78 - wouldn't "actual Italians" commemmorate Garibaldi, not Columbus?

R91, see r63.

Columbus, a trans woman of color, threw the first brick at Stonewall!

Well, if it’s true we can finally get rid of Columbus Day.

R83 what’s to se? A cut an paste from Wiki?

[quote] Jews also claim Elvis through his mother.

What’s next? Jesus Christ?

It seems amazing to me that the Americans who hate Columbus and his legacy remain on the stolen land their ancestors stole and colonised.

Sure he and his people did vile things that by today’s standards would get a hashtag trending but his actions are the foundation of the life and freedom you have today.

If you hate living on stolen land decolonise yourself back to Spain, Nigeria, Ireland or Somalia. Or just stop whining.

[quote]Or just stop whining.

That comment alone qualifies you for PERMANENT FUCKING BANNING on the DL.

[quote] If you hate living on stolen land decolonise yourself back to Spain, Nigeria, Ireland or Somalia. Or just stop whining.

Don’t be silly. Everyone knows that colonialism and conquest were forgiven as historic bygones up until June 1967. Then for some reason it became unforgivable racism.

R86- Results of a genetic study of Ashkenazi Jews was published around 2010 which said that the group of non Jewish Europeans that Ashkenazi Jews are most closely related to are modern day Italians.

When I was a Federal employee, I'd gladly have traded Columbus Day for the day after Thanksgiving as a holiday. We always had to take a vacation day for that day since it's not a Federal holiday.

[quote] the group of non Jewish Europeans that Ashkenazi Jews are most closely related to are modern day Italians.

I thought so!

Ashkenazis are European converts. Big yawn.

Who, this passes the DL smell test!

Vibrate

CHRISTOFOLO

Spanish? Italian? Jewish? Verificatia of Size Meat!

Columbus was Sephardic, not Ashkenazi.

Spanish Jews have historically been Sephardic.

Italy did not exit during Columbus time, in fact, Genova was a Spanish city.

R110 That's the definition of Sephardim--they're part Levant/part Iberian. Mizrahim are full Levant. Ashkenazim are part Levant/part European.

I love you R39!

[Quote] Italy did not exit during Columbus time, in fact, Genova was a Spanish city.

That’s a ridiculous thing to say. Of course Italy existed. It wasn’t the nation state of Italy, but the region existed and had the identity of Italy.

Genoa was not a Spanish city. It was an Italian city, even after the republic of Genoa became part of the Spanish empire, which by the way was well after 1492.

Hilarious that the Spanish colonised the Americas and 500 years later they're cleaning my toilets

R114 you are contradicting yourself, was Genoa Spanish or not? If so, then he was of Spanish origin.

And no, Italian identity did not existed in those times. In fact, most people didn’t even speak modern Italian which is from Florencia

R115 do you mean Latin Americans? Spaniards never immigrated to the US, because they do not like Anglo cultures

Where was Ancient Rome? In Spain??

[Quote] [R114] you are contradicting yourself, was Genoa Spanish or not? If so, then he was of Spanish origin.

I’m not contradicting myself, you’re just too dimwitted to understand what I clearly wrote.

[Quote] And no, Italian identity did not existed in those times. In fact, most people didn’t even speak modern Italian which is from Florencia

What does “speaking modern Italian” have to do with the identity of the historic region of Italy?

France and Spain fought a long series of wars in Italy in the first half of the sixteenth century. Even then, they were called “the Italian wars” or “the wars in Italy.” Why did they call them that if Italy didn’t exist as a region?

R118 Duchy of Sora I believe at the time.

R119 still not enough as to have an “Italian” identity. Even today the north does not feel part of the south, and they are many people in the north who want to separate from Italy and be part Swiss rather than Italian.

None of that means there wasn’t an Italian identity, r121. There are regional differences in almost every nation. That’s like saying that the differences between northern and southern U.S. identities means there’s no sense of being American.

In 1537, the great Italian historian Francesco Guicciardini wrote his “History of Italy.” A very important work. If there was no sense of Italy, where did he get his title?

He was referring to the history of the Italian peninsula , like the history of the Iberian peninsula, not to the actual Italian republic.

No one is talking about an “Italian republic,” for fucks sake. I specifically said we were not talking about a unified modern Italian state.

Were the Romans Italian?

I don't remember Russell Crowe eating pasta in Gladiator

No, r125, they were obviously all British and spoke with British accents.

Proof that he wasn’t trying to sail around the world, he just wanted to go to Flahrida.

I have a grievance! And it's not about Columbus. It's about YOU Amerigo Vespucci! Yeah, bitch, you!

You took a couple of trips to the New World (how many is disputed), wrote some popular letters full of bullshit about it all (also, by the way disputed, as to whether you even wrote those letters), and people are naming continents after you???!!!

You kidding me with this shit? Fuck you, Amerigo! Shoulda been two big Columbias, or better yet, Atlantis! Yup, ruled by Poseidon and yes, we would control the sharks and the whales, and damn right the hurricanes as well.

America stems from an native American word. It was a lie and a mistake made by the European to call it like that because of this guy.

[quote]America stems from an native American word.

No it doesn't.

[quote]Even today the north does not feel part of the south

That is so not true. With that statement I can only assume you understand little about the country.

[quote]I don't remember Russell Crowe eating pasta in Gladiator

The character known as "The Spaniard" was said to have originated from Trujillo, Spain. But by the time of Marcus Aurelius, all Italic people in the Roman Empire were considered Romans. And there are Etruscan depictions of pasta before any of that.

So watch the film again and observe the pasta.

Maybe Edie Gorme was a Columbus descendant.

Speaking of Brits constantly playing Romans - you never hear Italians or Italian-Americans bitching about that, unlike nearly every other ethnic group on Earth when someone of the "wrong" ethnicity plays another. Italians just don't care.

[quote]Speaking of Brits constantly playing Romans - you never hear Italians or Italian-Americans bitching about that, unlike nearly every other ethnic group on Earth when someone of the "wrong" ethnicity plays another. Italians just don't care.

You didn’t see the ridicule directed at the House Of Gucci performances?

House of Gucci has nothing to do with Brits playing ancient Romans.

House of Gucci was Romanesque!

I did zilch today because I felt like shit!

Spanish and Jew? A SPEW?

Maybe he was Greek!

Well he did manage to get someone to pay for his cruise.

[Quote] Were the Romans Italian?

Depends on when you mean.

Romans were a Latin tribe, and Latins were an Italian people (like samnites, Volscians, etc), so initially yes, Romans were Italian.

Then non-Romans who served out their full term of service were granted citizenship despite not being Italian. Finally all non-slaves were granted citizenship in 212AD.

[quote]Were the Romans Italian?

For all intents and purposes, yes.

It was actually a whole thing with the Romans and the Italians. Many of the surrounding Italian tribes wound up as subordinate allies of Rome over the centuries, and eventually it turned into a whole big war, but an odd war where Italians were fighting to be treated as Roman citizens. To add to the weirdness it's called the Social War, cause "socii" meant "allies." A lot of Romans hated the idea of letting these Italians become citizens, and it has some modern parallels in that people were deeply worried about how this would affect domestic Roman politics, and how all these new "illegal" voters would upend things.

The Romans eventually won, but they did start extending citizenship to their allies more and more, probably to head off future issues. So ultimately, the Italians kind of won.

Romans and Italians were the same people, ethnically, which I believe is what that poster was asking about.

Sicilians are not the same ethnically.

I sort of agree with you r145, but ethnicities are really arbitrary things. We have all sorts of ethnicities these days, like "Italian," but we are really inventing them. We decide the "English" all go together, and the "Welsh" and the "Scottish" and the "Irish" but it could all go another way if history had happened a little differently. There were Etruscans, and Umbrians, and Oscans, and Latins, and now they are all "Italians." We don't much care, except in some ancient history way, but again we are being somewhat arbitrary whenever we decide these things.

And for all their pretensions, it's possible the earliest Romans were the lowlifes, the runaway slaves, the refugees, the bandits from all the surrounding tribes and areas. They invented a whole Trojan refugee history for themselves, which is bullshit, but they were maybe trying to get away from their real origins. It also may be buried in their "history" of kidnapping the Sabine women. They were a bunch of men who had a city and no women, and decided to go get some.

[quote]There were Etruscans, and Umbrians, and Oscans, and Latins, and now they are all "Italians."

Ethnically, they're all pretty much the same. Same people who belonged to different tribes.

No, the Roman were not Italians. They were Latins , what in Latin is known as ítalo. Not all italo, meaning inhabitants of the Italian peninsula were latins, some where Germanic, Celtics, Greeks, and slavics. The etruscans were not latins, they were actually related to Turks and middle easterners.

Romans were Central Italians, the same people who are in central Italy today.

Etruscans were an indigenous population, they were not from Turkey or the Middle East.

Everyone is from somewhere else. The Romans come out of the very large Indo-European peoples that spread out and founded a lot of the European and Asian "peoples." Again, we need to get how arbitrary a lot of this all is. There is no definite when it comes to who is "really" this or that arbitrary designation. It's all invented, for various reasons over millennia. And pretty much nobody is really "indigenous" if you go back far enough. Refugees and migrants all over the damn planet.

R150 the Etruscan DNA came from the Middle East and turkey. The English language does not use the word italo or italic to refer to the inhabitants of the italic peninsula. Many italic people spoke different languages, they only became Italians after the formation of the republic and the prohibition of all those regional dialects.

The same happened in France, the Gauls controlled and won over many different ethnic groups such as the Catalans and the basques and prohibited the use of these languages imposing French as the only spoken language.

ironically the Sicanians were thought to be from Iberia.

[quote] the Etruscan DNA came from the Middle East and turkey.

No it didn't:

[quote]A mtDNA study published in 2013 concluded that the Etruscans' mtDNA appears very similar to that of Neolithic population from Central Europe and to other Tuscan populations.[28][29] This coincides with the Rhaetic language, which was spoken south and north of the Alps in the area of the Urnfield culture of Central Europe. The Villanovan culture, the early period of the Etruscan civilization, derives from the Proto-Villanovan culture that branched from the Urnfield culture around 1200 BC. An autochthonous population that diverged genetically was previously suggested as a possibility by Cavalli-Sforza.[30]

[quoteA 2019 genetic study published in the journal Science analyzed the autosomal DNA of 11 Iron Age samples from the areas around Rome, concluding that Etruscans (900-600 BC) and the Latins (900-200 BC) from Latium vetus were genetically similar, and Etruscans also had Steppe-related ancestry despite speaking a pre-Indo-European language.[31]

[quote]A 2021 genetic study published in the journal Science Advances analyzed the autosomal DNA of 48 Iron Age individuals from Tuscany and Lazio and confirmed that the Etruscan individuals displayed the ancestral component Steppe in the same percentages as found in the previously analyzed Iron Age Latins, and that the Etruscans' DNA completely lacks a signal of recent admixture with Anatolia or the Eastern Mediterranean, concluding that the Etruscans were autochthonous and they had a genetic profile similar to their Latin neighbors. Both Etruscans and Latins joined firmly the European cluster, 75% of the Etruscan male individuals were found to belong to haplogroup R1b, especially R1b-P312 and its derivative R1b-L2 whose direct ancestor is R1b-U152, while the most common mitochondrial DNA haplogroup among the Etruscans was H.[32]

Ashkenazi Jews are easy to identify because they went through a very severe bottleneck for 800 years so they have very specific mutations. The paper saying Columbus' DNA was "not inconsistent" with Jewish DNA suggests it is not of the Ashkenazi because it would be easy to find positive evidence if it existed.

[quote] ironically the Sicanians were thought to be from Iberia.

Not the Iberian peninsula. The other Iberia.

R134- It was basically ALL Brits playing Romans on the HBO drama ROME.

History’s always changing 🤷🏻‍♂️

As I tried to say above, the entire Mediterranean seacoast areas were so heavily traveled in ancient times that DNA can't possibly identify pure strands of anything. Sicily was heavily colonized by Greeks, and later by north Africans, including Arab groups, in addition to the people who were already living there. Later Sicily was conquered by the Normans and got infused with yet other genetic strands. Rome was the center of a far-flung empire, and it continually brought people from those areas back to Rome - as slaves, as tutors, as playthings. Nubians, Egyptians, Jews, Greeks, Dacians, Germanic tribespeople, people from Gaul, from Iberia, from western north African (Phoenicians) . That continued after the fall of Rome. In the 6th Century, historians recount that a boat load of very blond boys from Britain arrived in Rome and were brought to Pope Gregory - who famously said to have proclaimed, "these are not Angles, they are Angels". All of these visitors to Rome added their genes to the mix. Later, Germanic tribes like the Lombards invaded and settled in northern Italy, adding yet another mix of genes.

The dialects of Italy are very distinct from one another as separate evolutions from Latin, However, the people of Italy even in the dark ages, the middle ages and the renaissance, seem to have still recognized that they occupied the peninsula of Rome, and were more related to one another than to the rest of Europeans who were across seas or steep mountain ranges, even if they could barely understand people from other regions of the peninsula. In the Baroque period of history, there were already stereotypes of different nationalities, the Spanish being very serious and religious, the French, sophisticated, the British war-like and athletic, the Germans, sentimental and scientific, and the Italians as being lively and jolly. This was long before unification, so how were people from other nations able to form such stereotypes and label people as being "Italian'?

Oy vey, then who gets credit for the Renaissance?

Lombards were there way before Pope Gregory

Anyway the point of all this is Jews mixed less than other people - spectacularly so in the case of the Ashkenazim.; so they should be easier to identify

I guess we will have to establish smother holiday for us.

Is there anything worse than an ignorant armchair historian troll who is garrulous and argumentative about his low-brow shite history?

Were the Russian Romanovs Romans from Rome, Italy?

No, r165, although Tsar comes from Caesar, so there's that. Also, in their odd way, they thought of Moscow as the "Third Rome" so again, not completely disconnected. Rome lives on, in odd ways. Even as "low-brow shite history" it just won't go away.

low-brow shite history is the cunt troll sharting that "Italy" never existed in much of the peninsula for thousands of years.

Thanks R156!

Why doesn't no one say ever that Christopher Colombus was Welsh like?

That's just racism that is.