Poisoned letters of reference

Jesus! LET IT GO!

Seems to me one eye would be perfectly adequate for art history. It’s not like you wanted to become a pilot or a brain surgeon.

A good letter of reference is NOT all positive. As any admissions people will tell you, a good letter that creates a positive impression contains both positive and negative comments - a good critical assessment of someone's strengths and weaknesses.

Now, whether the “she lacks only an eye” comment was beyond damning is hard to say for certain. There are some comments that would be non-starters no matter how glowing for other grad school admissions. If a reference letter stated that an MBA candidate did not have leadership potential, that would basically disqualify a candidate from all top tier schools, no matter grades or GMAT scores.

Based on your writing skills, maybe she had a good point

Hard to believe an opinion about your taste would sink an otherwise solid application .

On the other hand, I can understand why admission to art history graduate programs are cutthroat. Talk about “the world is your oyster!” Golden ticket.

So in so has applied for a position with our company. Could you tell me about your experience working with him?

Is that fucker trying to get a job?! Ha ha!

Admissions offices want complete honesty in the letters, positive or negative. By looking at your portfolio, maybe they felt the same.

Do art historians have portfolios?

No.

About the worst thing that ever happened to me:

My family was the first Jewish one in a very waspy town. For a decade or so ur family was never really accepted in town, but it didn't really matter, and regardless, eventually many more Jews moved in. And I was something of an outcast just for being who I was: nerdy, really bright, socially awkward. In fact, all I had in school was the fact I was bright; otherwise, I didn't fit in anywhere.

April of my senior year: I was turned down by every school college I'd applied to. All of them. I cried for days. I didn't go to school for a week as all my classmates knew about what happened. I didn't attend my graduation. My family couldn't' figure out what had happened.

Turned out: The leader of the ant-semites was our next door neighbor, who was also the guidance counselor. Our family didn't realize how horrible the man and his family were, and how much he hated that we had opened the gates to Jews. As was the custom in our school, he wrote my college recommendation. I saw it years later when the school principal, a good guy, let me look at my file. The neighbor/counselor had written a letter basically saying that I was a psychotic, a liar, and I shouldn't allowed into any school. No one did.

I've always wondered how different my life would have been if I'd gone to one of those (Ivy) schools.

If the principal was a good guy—he would have known about the counselor and stepped in to write the letters himself.

Fail 0/10

I’m sure your career as a plumber worked out just fine.

Today teachers use AI to write letters. I know of only one other teacher who writes their own letters.

Criticism without appropriate instruction is abuse

How dare she do as you asked and give her unbiased opinion of you to graduate programs! Did she not KNOW she was actually supposed to lie about you by offering nothing to them but unstinting praise of you?

The monster!

[quote]whether the “she lacks only an eye” comment was beyond damning is hard to say for certain.

Agree with R3. Depending on context that might have meant that the student had hopelessly bad taste, or that the student's eye was undeveloped -- not an uncommon situation for many Art History graduates with a fresh degree. Depending on the type of study program or professional position sought, it's not necessarily an impediment. There are Miss Jean Brodie sorts of employers who might see it as opportunity.

[quote] Today teachers use AI to write letters. I know of only one other teacher who writes their own letters.

I'm a college professor myself, and that's just not true at all of me or of anyone I know.

[quote]Poisoned letters

This feels like an Agatha Christie plot point.

I'm on your team, OP. The professor should have disclosed that she was only prepared to recommend your application with qualifications, so you could suck another professor's dick for a glowing reference.

I'm an academic, and sadly, one never ages out of needing letters of reference. I think it would be obvious if someone were intentionally trying to sabotage another's chances in a letter, and such an act would reflect worse on the referrer than the referee. Besides, for most opportunities, letters are largely a formality.

OP. You're an embarrassment to your college, your family, and the DL. This post went nowhere. Big failure to you.

If she's not a rotting corpse by now...

Call me.

In the meantime, don't rack a slide.

OP, is this from your latest HuffPost Personal essay?

OP, if you don't like Stuart Davis she was correct.

OP I was recently asked to provide a reference letter for a former colleague (different office, same overall employer) who was imho not a good employee. I agonized a bit and then finally emailed to say he’d be better off asking someone else.

I don’t think the letter you got was a poison pill. What else is an advanced degree good for but to develop your eye?

R10 Where did you end up going to college (if you did)?

(I am r20)

Another thing to consider is that graduate programs, especially in a field like art history, can be highly competitive.

Many years ago, a good friend of mine applied to eight top-ranked doctoral programs in art history (Italian Renaissance). He had an MA from a good school and was brilliant. Well, he was rejected from every program. It was devastating. The next year, his luck improved considerably, and he was accepted to one of the best. He's now a professor in a highly selective SLAC.

The point is, at this level, it's sometimes about dumb luck.

OP Is that why you became a flight attendant?

You lost me at "art history."

Do people spend actual money getting a graduate degree in art history?

I used to send out the rejection letters for positions in a small law firm and while my part of it was boilerplate, it could be interesting to read the cover letters applicants had sent.

One guy actually wrote that he never wanted to work for a little Hitler. I thought what a shame it was that he might have to wonder why he wasn’t chosen when what he’d done was so effectively poison his own chances to work for our little Hitler.

I used to advise my students (community college students looking to transfer to four-year-schools) that if they asked a professor for a reference and that person hesitated for [italic]even a brief moment[/italic] before saying yes, move on to someone else.

BTW, I wrote great letters of reference. I told my students that anyone who received an A in my class would get a good reference from me. I loved it when my students came back to me jumping up and down and yelling, "I got in! I got in!"

Years ago, I was at a motorcycle gathering in a bar/pool hall and one of my old students was there serving drinks. She came up to me to say hi and thank me for believing in her and helping her get into her current nursing program. I said, "Oh, come on, you probably don't remember anything from my class," and she denied it, and started to tell me a bunch of things I said that really made her think and changed her world view.

I really miss teaching (sigh). You can't teach in Florida for very long when you're out.

[quote]Poisoned letters

[quote]This feels like an Agatha Christie plot point.

Well, it was definitely a Seinfeld plot point - it's how George's fiancee died.

[quote] “she lacks only an eye”.

Art (applied) major here. This is a bad reference. Your "eye" is everything, in art. In fact, it says something about your judgment, in general.

I've written letters of recommendation for people. (Not re: art; I have an advanced degree in something else.) I don't put down any weaknesses, but I don't lie and I don't go overboard on the positives.

I’m not a very good writer… or rather, very subtle, when any of my past students ever asked me for a reference letter the glowing result would be proportional to just how sexy I thought they were. (All my students attained high talent because I taught them. Alas, some were just plain.)

When I had asked for letters of reference earlier in my own burgeoning career, someone had me proof the draft. I thought that was brilliant, and was a habit I took on myself. So the fact that these hot students of mine would read these saccharine, over-the-top drafts and not realize to just what degree of inappropriate carnal knowledge I desired… well, that makes me think I’m just not THAT good of a writer.

Did r34 get lost on his way to Penthouse Forum?

When I applied to law school, I asked a local lawyer/politician for a letter of recommendation. He told me to write it myself and send it to his office, and he would edit/polish it and send me a copy of the finished letter.

[quote]Today teachers use AI to write letters.

What about Yesterday teachers or Tomorrow teachers?

Tomorrow teachers won't need to write any letters of recommendation because all knowledge will be directly implanted into a student's brain.

It will be similar to SSD memory - stupid people will simply have both smaller capacity before their brains are full and will have slower read/write access speeds.

"Universities" will be an anachronism.

[quote] Do people spend actual money getting a graduate degree in art history?

If you're in a good program, they'll pay your tuition and room and board, and also give you a good stipend for several years.

Did you really not know that?

R39 What kind of job do you get with that degree?

You only need a BA in art history to be a cohost on The View. Just think of the opportunities for someone with a graduate degree.

R40, teaching, probably.

I've written many through the years, but what I'm seeing most commonly now for college admissions and even for jobs are computerized questionnaires with dialog boxes to elaborate on various points that are returned straight to the school or business when the reference writer is finished.

Letters for college admission have always how straight to the receiving school.

gone*

[quote] If you're in a good program, they'll pay your tuition and room and board, and also give you a good stipend for several years. Did you really not know that?

Ah, but you're wrong, R39. If you are a good [italic]student[/italic], with amazing references, a high GPA, and a top GRE score (assuming they still give/give credence to GREs) then you have a shot at a teaching/research assistantship.

But if you're not a stellar candidate, you won't get a cent. If you want to attend that school regardless, and they've admitted you, you can still go -- but you'll pay your own way.

I have heard that there are grad programs that don't admit any students they can't financially support, but I don't know that for certain. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to which schools those might be.

PhD students don’t pay tuition at any major university. They earn a stipend and employed as TAs.

R29. Virtually all the elite schools (Ivies, Chicago, Stanford, Northwestern, MIT) only admit MA/PhD students they can guarantee multi-year support to—this is true in the traditional academic, scholarly fields. In the professional programs (medicine, law, business), this is less the case, the assumption being that, almost as soon as pro grades get their first jobs out of grad school, they start earning enough to pay off loans in a few years (whether this is true or not is arguable). It’s less an issue at public universities because they are usually so large that assistantships are plentiful, to staff introductory (sometimes intermediate) courses that regular faculty can’t cover (or prefer not to).

I’m sure OP will make a fine candidate, I mean, she’s ok and all. The overwhelming stench of her feet shouldn’t inconvenience you too much, and she only makes the distinctive sharp wretching sound a few times a day.

“It’s less an issue at public universities because they are usually so large that assistantships are plentiful, to staff introductory (sometimes intermediate) courses that regular faculty can’t cover (or prefer not to).”

Correction: Harvard and Stanford, et al. handle it the same way as Berkeley and UCLA. You describe a dichotomy that does not exist.

Self interest. If universities made people pay for PhDs they would cease to exist.

[quote] What about Yesterday teachers or Tomorrow teachers?

Oh, heave forbid, I FORGOT A COMMA.

r50 is correct.

[Quote] Oh, heave forbid,

No problemo!

If this is your yearbook picture ,she kinda had a point.....

Stealth Sauron thread

Licking your ass is like poison

Poison I say

When I was a student working toward my master's degree, I was employed by the University as a student advisor that lived with them. My tuition, room and board were paid for. I received a stipend for living expenses as well. I still had some money saved from it when I was graduated.

Most top universities, at least for the traditional arts, sciences and humanities, do not grant separate master’s and PhD degrees. “Getting into grad school” means a PhD program, where the master’s is a courtesy degree as part of the “pathway.” You don’t pay tuition.

[quote]Tomorrow teachers won't need to write any letters of recommendation because all knowledge will be directly implanted into a student's brain.

Those would be Future teachers as the technology isn't here yet.

[quote]...she ended it “she lacks only an eye”.

OP, are you Sandy Duncan?

Sandy Duncan has an eye. She just lacks a second one.

This thread brought up an old hurt. A teacher I idolized was entrusted with writing a simple recommendation for me for a performing arts school. Somehow I had gotten a copy of it, but hadn't looked at it in adulthood. Re-reading it many years later, I realized he had written a lot of good things about my approach to work, but he did not say one word about my having any performing talent.

I know him well enough to know that he did that on purpose and that there were classmates of mine whose talent he would have described in those terms, as the very first thing in the recommendation. At the time, I wanted nothing more than praise from him. It was almost sadistic, he cast me in leading roles in shows and then during notes after rehearsal, I would never get one positive note of any kind during the entire rehearsal and performance process. Still I'd sit there during notes and listen to him talk about how great other people were, how talented they were.

It all seems so small now, and stupid of me (even as a young person) to put my self-esteem so much in the hands of a teacher. But that's what I did.

Things are better now.

r40 a friend of mine has a PhD in art history and a very cushy curatorial position at a top American museum.

Op that’s awful. Who cares if what was years ago it’s still on your mind and that was down right petty. She should have just told you no and explained why. I imagine most bad references are instances like that because employers have to be very careful with what they say. They can be sued into oblivion. They can’t bad mouth you unless you did something criminal. But generally don’t choose people from former companies who will say bad shit about you. But like I stated, even if they get a hold of your supervisor or HR they cannot, by law, bad mouth you.

[quote][R39] What kind of job do you get with that degree?

You can get a job as a nuclear physicist with that degree, Rose.

R4 😂. Cunt of the highest order you are.