Any DLers grow up in the Eastern Orthodox Church?

lots of people do, all the cool kids are doing it. . .

I know my rights.

Serbian dad, raised Serbian by my Italian RC mom.

Dad worked in a steel mill, and I think he always scheduled himself at work on Sunday. Never went to church. Mom took us, and we met with his sisters and mother. Fasting for Easter and Lent was a horror, as well as twice a year confession. Was an altar boy. Ran into one of our priests in a gay video arcade when I was in college. I thought he could give me some insight, but he ran like hell when he saw me.

Christianity is such a Borg, as it absorbs all the National Identities. Can you be Russian, Greek, Romanian, Serbian without all the church traditions, customs and food? I left the Serbian Orthodox Church and took all the recipes with me. This is also why Evangelical Christian crap is so appealing to them, it switches out the Christianity but keeps all the cultural crap.

Oh, and my mom saw through all this stupidity when she went to marry my day and asked for a dispensation as a Catholic. She was denied and EXCOMMUNICATED. She told them to go fuck themselves when Jackie Kennedy BOUGHT a dispensation to Marry Onassis. Christianity is all about the cash, the control and the cheese burek.

And this thread will sink like a brick

Lesss drama queeny than Catholicism.

Nobody really cares about divorce or abortion.

The orthodox take fasting to the next level. They practically go vegan during all of Lent, not just on Fridays.

[quote]They practically go vegan

NO, they go SCRUPULOUSLY vegan for 40 days.

You have no idea what eating PB&J on matzo for weeks on end is like?

I learned that whey was my spiritual enemy.

The only good thing was cocoa vinegar cake. Some days it was all I ate.

Vegan for 40 days? And here I thought having fish on Friday was asking a lot.

And if breaded, the breading had to be vegan. When we could afford it, I lived on fried shrimp.

[quote]How did it compare to being raised Roman Catholic?

How would someone raised Orthodox know, OP?

If so, do you have the kevorka?

Their services are a lot longer than Catholic mass.

The funerals take three hours, there’s lots of incense.

R10 Because a lot of “recovering Catholics” talk about it, so there’s at least some frame of reference.

r10, my mom was RC and she schooled us on what our parochial cousins were subjected to.

They also stand for the better part of the divine service, which is two to three hours.

Catholics point to the Orthodox churches and say, "See how much worse it could be?" By "worse," they mean longer and more boring.

George Stephanopoulous's father was a Greek Orthodox priest. And George has a master's in theology.

I was a heathen as a kid but the various Serb/Croatian/various Eastern European Orthodox churches were all around, as well as ethnic variations on Catholic churches.

I was raised Greek Orthodox and went to Sunday school which was followed by a regular church service. I have never had a religious feeling ever, it was just all nonsense to me, so when I turned 12 that was it, I said I was sleeping in every Sunday from then on.

I will say Greeks as a people aren’t prudish about sex, Greek priests were expected to marry and have families, etc. Easter is a bigger holiday than Christmas, and the traditional service for Easter is an evening mass and at the end of it, each person takes a lit candle with them and you are supposed to keep it protected and aflame until you get home, which represents keeping the light of Christianity alive in the darkness, etc. A lovely poetic ritual. But still bullshit.

Of course now the Russian Orthodox church is very repressive, a conservative political tool, which so far the other Eastern Orthodox denominations are resisting. There are two rival Eastern Orthodox Archbishops, the Russian extremely conservative, the other not. But as with Catholics, some in the the church hierarchy have been busy seeding the lower religious orders with reactionaries, which is unfortunate.

r16, if the church has any seating at all.

I went to a Russian Orthodox wedding where you had to either stand or kneel for the entire ceremony. No pews at all. Greek Orthodox isn't like that.

In the Serb Church we tend to be Pews, in the OCA/Russian doiscese they are Pewoclasts.

They revel in REMOVING pews. It is their way of being THE TRUE CHURCH.

Crow baring and burning the pews is an act of faith.

The kind of crap the Reformation got rid of.

An abundance of intact cocks.

I’ll add onto r20’s post—you can get married and divorced three times in the Greek Orthodox Church. A friend married and divorced a Greek girl, I remember thinking it was a smart rule, you’re allowed three fuckups before you’re considered a fuckup.

Still lots of swinging the incense during services.

How is whey vegan?

Pews are a Protestant innovation that often mess up the acoustics of the church.

[quote]Still lots of swinging the incense during services.

Reminds me of the old joke ... this is probably apocryphal, but supposedly a very drunk Talluluah Bankhead was attending Easter mass at St. Patrick's Cathedral and the cardinal proceeded down the aisle waving the censer. Tallulah was heard to comment, "Darling, I love your dress, but your purse is on fire."

r27, whey is the enemy. If it shows up in an ingredient list, not edible for Orthodox Lent.

I became a wizard with Texturized Vegetable Protein.

Funny story r29 but a cardinal only uses the thurible/censer at the altar. He processes/recesses carrying his crozier. The thurifer processes with the thurible.

Sounds kinky to me

R25, I know Catholics who each have more than one annulment.

Annulments are a nice little earner for the RCC.

No but I almost converted to Latvian Orthodox for some bimbo

[quote]Annulments are a nice little earner for the RCC.

In the EOC, you better have an "in" with the bishop to get an annulment. Plus, unlike the announcing of the marriage banns, an annulment is, like divorce, considered a capitulation to sin and is sealed and secret, as it is confessional.

My aunt had to hustle and get her daughter married, and after the miscarriage, negotiated the annulment.

The EOC, the RCC, are both corrupt. However, the EOC clings to suffering, while the rest of Christianity has moved on to Prosperity.

Damn that Protestant Work Ethic.

And the cousin in r35, went on to marry a RC, in the RCC, sin free.

All a scam.

[quote]Any DLers grow up in the Eastern Orthodox Church?

No, but my lover fucked one of their priests under the boardwalk at Coney Island.

r37, BFD, I have fucked so many RC Priests that I can tell you the differences between Jesuits, Dominicans and Franciscans.

In the 90s, I was in a relationship with a Greek stud. He was religious to an extent, but not overly-religious (he was very curious about other religions). His family and his church couldn't know he was gay, nor could they know he chose stripping in gay clubs as a living (he was in his 20s). Whenever he was in my town on weekends (he lived with his family about two hours away), he would join me to go to church (Roman Catholic). I used to attend mass every week at the St Francis Chapel in my city. He always told me the two services were almost identical. The only big difference he noticed was that we sat more through the mass, while the Greek church stood for most of it (so he stood against the wall in the back of the church, while we sat). He really felt accepted by the Franciscans and their services. He liked that we weren't as strict as the Greek Orthodox Church- especially at Easter. After the services, I introduced him to some of the priests in the chapel - he had great conversations with them about the Greek church and Catholic church (they loved talking to him, and explained there were very little differences).

He eventually moved to NYC, and I would visit him every other weekend. He always wanted to go to the Franciscan Chapel for services on Sundays with me. His parents were accepting that he was going to a Catholic church with me - they were thrilled that I was getting him to church each week. I think he was interested in possibly converting at some point.

Unfortunately, he died at a very young age in a tragic accident (he was 33). I do think he would've converted at some point in his life.

My grandparents came from Ukraine and were Greek Orthodox. My folks didn’t make us go to church except for the big holidays. And of course the funerals and weddings, which were never under 2 hours. The services we went to were in Ukrainian so I never really understood much. The entire experience was all just very… ritualistic.

[quote]I do think he would've converted at some point in his life.

But would he have come out?

"My grandparents came from Ukraine and were Greek Orthodox." - How did that happen, r40? Perhaps you mean they were Greek Catholic, which isn't actually Greek or Orthodox but is popular in Ukraine.

I grew up in the Eastern Orthodox Church, OP. The control is strong, but we don't have the concept of guilt in the same way that Catholics do. One good thing is that priests can marry (my great-grandfather was a priest), hence so many Greeks with "Papa" at the beginning of their surname. It also results in a lot less child sexual abuse.

"I think he was interested in possibly converting at some point." - I doubt it, r39.

R39 Is this story real? Most gay men aren’t this religious unless they’re mentally ill.

No, R42, they were Ukrainian Greek Orthodox. It’s a thing. I would know.

If you’re permitted to marry a second time in the Orthodox Church, the ceremony cannot be celebrated with the same solemnity as a first marriage. One more chance is all you get. If you’ve failed at marriage twice then you obviously aren’t called to it.

Which Church did your parents belong to, r46? I don't mean which general religion but which ecclesiastical administration? What was the name of it in Ukrainian?

Or was it the Orthodox church under the Ecumenical Patriarch, who is Greek, Battholomeo?

I worked for several years at a church goods store and R31 knows a hell of a lot more than I ever did. Fess up, R31, you must be an ex-seminarian at the very least!

Name a national Church that is directly under the Ecumenical Patriarch with no intermediate administration, r49. There is no such Church in Ukraine.

Moreover, the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople is not the head of something called the "Greek Orthodox Church", which in ecclesiastical terms doesn't exist.

I see Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, his most beatific oligarch, has checked in.

$lava Bogu!

OP, you sound like you're looking for somebody in particular.

The one that I know of hasn't shown up in this thread yet.

Kiril isn't the Ecumenical Patriarch, r53.

You are correct. Bart is Ecumenical Pat. I never said he was

R53

So why jump in with some irrelevant comment about Kiril in response to mention of the Ecumenical Patriarch?

Can you really grow up in a church? Do you wash in the holy water?

r57, the Ukranian OC wants to break from the ROC. It is the reason, I thought, r51, chimed in.

The Russians are bombing their own churches in Ukraine, or so they can think.

But, r59, there's still no national church anywhere that is directly under the Ecumenical Patriarch (who would call himself a Roman before calling himself a Hellene), and Zelenskyy banning the ROC still won't make the Orthodox Church in Ukraine Greek. In any case, this is only a recent issue and r40 is talking about something that happened decades ago. It's still not clear to me how his grandparents from Ukraine could have been Greek Orthodox unless they were ethnic Greeks. Or perhaps they emigrated to somewhere in the US where the only Orthodox church was the one run by the Greeks.

Lots of people use the shorthand Greek Orthodox for all Eastern Orthodox Churches.

Really don't care, except that Ukraine is also breaking away from the corrupt Russian Orthodox Church as well. Putin is corrupt, Kirill is corrupt, and they are old KGB friends. Kirill is just as much an oligarch as the Nickle King, the Real estate King and the Caterer before Putin killed him. I pity those poor pravoslavni who donate to the coffers of a billionaire Patriarch. The reason Democracy failed in Russia is that the absurd levels of corruption are accepted.

If anyone uses the term "Greek Orthodox" to refer to the Albanian Orthodox Church, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church or the Ukrainian Orthodox Church then they are wrong. Moreover, an Orthodox Christian from Ukraine would 100% not refer to him/herself as Greek Orthodox unless he/she was ethnic Greek. None of this has anything to do with the issues r61 is trying to introduce.

Sweetie, the non-Orthodox do not care about your nomenclature. They are all Greek Orthodox to some, if not many.

Sweetie, r40 claims to be Orthodox.

Also sweetie, this thread is about what it's like to grow up Orthodox. If you're not interested in what it's like to be Orthodox then go away.

Cradle Orthodox, adult atheist.

r61 r63, sweetie.

This internecine bickering is very Eastern Orthodox.

Although the Orthodox Church has many nationalist "faces", they are all in "communion" with one another, meaning that they can attend services in another Orthodox church than the one they were raised in and have access to all the sacraments, etc. Because there is no central church, with a supreme leader, as the Roman Catholic church has in the pope, there are times, like the present, in which orthodox churches of another nationality will be at odds with one another, and members might refuse to attend the churches listed under the names of their current political enemies. My community doesn't have a large population of Russian Orthodox, so people from Russia who want to attend an Orthodox service here go to the Greek Orthodox church, and basically so do the small populations of Ukrainian Orthodox, Romanian Orthodox, and other non-Greek Orthodox people.

I was raised Catholic, but I was surprised to read that the Orthodox do not believe in original sin - at least in the sense that all subsequent people (following Adam and Eve) are supposed to feel guilt and need to atone for it. That is a fundamental precept of Catholicism and Protestantism, so it's rather shocking to realize that that there is another theological possibility.

The other surprising thing I learned is that among very observant Orthodox, more than half the days of the year are fast days. Every Wednesday and Friday, in the year, during Lent, and during Advent. Fasting is mostly avoiding animal products (meat, fish, cheese, eggs and the like).

Catholic theology teaches that because the schism between Roman Catholics and Orthodox was so broad that there were many ordained priest, bishops and archbishops in each, who had the power to ordain future priests, sacraments performed by priests in one church would be valid for the other. (in other words, a Catholic could attend an Orthodox service in Greece or somewhere where Catholic churches would be difficult to find, and take communion). However, the Orthodox don't believe that Catholic sacraments are valid for them, nor would they offer communion or other sacraments to someone that they knew was Catholic.

One of the coolest events in many communities I've lived in has been when the Greek Orthodox churches offer a "Greek dinner" as a fund-raising event. In addition to the meal itself, which is often some variation of lamb, served with rice or orzo, mizithra cheese, greek salad, and the like, and an assortment of delicious Greek pastries like baklava, there are often displays of Greek dancing and Greek musicians playing.

To get back to our DL roots, some very fine looking Greek dancers!!! I love their costumes.....that hint at prized beneath.

^prizes

This thread is all Greek to me.

Wasn't there some crazy breakaway "Greek Catholic" group that was ultra-conservative?