The Official Walz/Vance Debate Thread - Part II

The debate will change nothing.

They both did well but Walz got in the most quotable zingers.

A new day!

I like that too.

Vance is a piece of shit but he did better than I thought. I assumed he was a moron but he think he has no morals

JD Vance is the scum of the earth. Tim Walz delivered for the Democrats tonight and I can’t wait to vote for the Harris-Walz ticket on November 5th!

Ha!! A fort out of toothpicks!

Love Dana.

Obvious yes they must’ve prepped Vance to hammer the phrase “Kamala’s policies…,” but it made Vance come across as oblivious of the fact she’s not and hasn’t been President.

CNN is praising Vance's performance. Walz unprepared.

Trump has flooded the country with so many lies that many things have gone unreported.

Vance created jobs but they were shitty low paid jobs. The locals were soon replaced by migrant workers and then the company went bankrupt. And I guess his Catholic prayer app hired a few Indian teenagers from Fiverr!

In 2012, his record as a business man would have dominated the news cycle for days.

Rachel Maddow's summary : One candidate is slicker than the other and a more professional speaker, and the other candidate won.

Vance wasn't as rabid as expected, but he came across as all the more menacing for his calm demeanor.

Lawrence O’ Donnell said “Vance is the first Vice Presidential candidate in history to not know who won the last election”.

"Tim, I'm focused on the future"

Sure bitch, and I was focused on my salad, but at some time it's easier to cut through the shit and stop being a CUNT!

Meant Nicole, not Dana.

Sorry.

Not a game changer.

Can we get back to WML trivia and airport lounge pros & cons?

TIA

Truth Social is hopping!

[quote] airport lounge pros & cons

Now that's a true debate!

[quote] Tell me about your last Qantas flight.

Dump is his own worst enemy.

MSNBC showing Tim and Gwen getting pizza.

Tonight’s debate was a fresh breath of air. It was nice to hear them explain more about their respective platforms and what they would try to offer to the American people.

I think Walz is definitely more human, realistic, and a lot more likable than Kamala. He is not a “looney lefty” — neither was Vance far-right. Vance is much more generic republican than Trump or Pence was in 16/20. I think I actually like both of these candidates, with a slight more preference to Walz. If the democrats can figure out the inflation/costs problem and our diplomatic strategy to a more peaceful world, I would gladly vote for Harris-Walz.

I just wonder if Trump-Vance would actually do a better job at inflation and helping affordability. I don’t agree with their abortion stance, I don’t agree with a lot of what they say, but I really want what works regardless of a political affiliation. I just wish there were answers to this question.

???

[quote] Dump is his own worst enemy.

Step aside.

Bitch, I hope you’re being sarcastic, r21!

Vance is a goddamned loon!

What Walz needed to do was convince U.S. Americans that he had what it takes to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency- and he did that tonight.

Would someone please shit in my mouth?!?!?!

Nicolle Wallace and Symone Sanders are upset on MSNBC. They don't think Walz hammered Vance hard enough at all on the lies. They think the strategy was all wrong.

R21, other than generic rhetoric, what specific actions or policies has Trump or Vance suggested that will deal with inflation? The President has nothing to do with setting prices of goods and services. Trump had nothing to do with the price of groceries during his administration and Biden has had nothing to do with those prices during his administration. T

R2 I think Walz meant to say that he was friends with school shooting victims and he blundered said "friends with school shooters".

R21, do you even have a clue what the current rate of inflation is?

The DNC is working its loser magic. Harris grabbed euphoric momentum by taking the gloves off so of course panic and put them back on.

R21

[Quote] I just wonder if Trump-Vance would actually do a better job at inflation and helping affordability.

Why do you “just wonder” that, r21?

1. The immediate response by most of those who watched this whole thing was that Vance "won" the election. Much more polished, comfortable. Walz was, at first, uncomfortable and seemed a little out of his depth.

2. Most impact of the debate will come after a day or so passes, and the clips/memes/social media establish "the story" of the debate, including each tribe's promoted conclusions about it. (i.e. the Harris campaign isn't sure yet what the story is.. that needs spinning). Walz's virus moments: the ham-fisted awkward answers about when he was in China; and his passionate speeches about abortion and the election denials/insurrection.

3. I am thinking about the only folks that really matter: those slivers of undecided voters in the battleground states and those Harris voters that may not be that motivated to come out. The debate will not move either group much, if at all.

[Quote] was that Vance "won" the election.

We didn’t even get to vote? Christmas for Trump I guess!

R21 is reasonable trolling. Sound reasonable, pretend both sides have issues, the JUST ASK QUESTIONS about maybe it'll be ok if the Nazis win. And at least Walz is nice, unlike the Communist negress. How reasonable of me!!

"... was that Vance "won" the election"

He stared admirably at Walz for 2 hours like a student in a master class. He was quite impressed.

[quote] [R2] I think Walz meant to say that he was friends with school shooting victims and he blundered said "friends with school shooters".

And this goes to the "ad" that the Pussygrabber posted on his social media wannabe site. But there are two words I'd like to invoke when it comes to misspeaking in public.... "Tim Apple"

Or was it the one word, "Oranges." Oranges? Yes, Oranges. The beginning of something, oranges.

Or Covfefe?

Or is it the confusion of historical facts like General Washington needing to cross the Delaware in order to secure the airport on the other side?

Cunts be cunting

I thought it was amusing when Walz said thanks for watching even though Dancing with the Stars wasn't on.

Jake Tapper is working overtime driving home the idea that Vance won the debate.

What's Megyn cunting off about?

The MAGAts are losing their shit over Walz saying he was friends with school shooters. It was clearly a misstatement, but they're going to make something of it.

Kaitlan Collins is, at the moment, interviewing Donald Trump Jr.!

She’s peeved that Vance was fact checked R43.

Whenever I see a name like “Kaitlan” I assume trash parents who couldn’t spell.

Same as “Megyn”.

Funny to watch her drunken spiral on X, though.

The bleeding gash Megyn has really been losing it over the past couple of months.

Serious question from a “foreigner” who watched the debate and really really wants the best outcome for your country - when someone seeking your vote ends their speech/presentation/performance with describing the USA as the greatest country on Earth or similar - do you believe it? Does your heart swell with pride or do your toes curl with embarrassment?

I know that the responses will be specific to the DL demographic, but I’m still curious.

Just tried adding a comment to that X bit with Megyn. Apparently, one can't type the word "dildo" there. Maybe Elon doesn't need the competition?

[quote] Does your heart swell with pride or do your toes curl with embarrassment?

Neither. It is used so often that it's meaningless. I'm indifferent.

Honestly R50, I'd say a bit of both. I grew up being told just how fortunate I was to be an American. And after that bit of info, I was educated on just what made my American democracy so unique, the functions of government, and the duties of a citizen to uphold it. It was called "Civics" and is not really widely taught anymore. That's where my toes curl... because the weakness in my country comes from all sorts of ignorant, lazy people that believe the former, but have no will to hold up the latter.

CNN snap poll of debate watchers:

"Who won the debate?"

Vance 51%

Walz 49%

Five out of six undecided Pennsylvania voters say that Walz won the debate.

The embarrassment is when patriotism becomes hollow jingoism. Would a patriot not agree to certify the results of a fair election? J.D.'s red, white, and blue mask keeps slipping.

Vance earned his nickname 'Shady'. Dodging, lying, defending a horrible person. Slick and slimy. But nothing he said was memorable, just same old tired rhetoric.

And would someone please ask both Trump and Vance for specific facts on he created this incredible economy in 2016? No one ever questions or refutes it.

Rachel overdid it with the blush tonight. She looked like a circus clown.

Most illegal inmigrants that I have known live with four or more people in one house because they can not even afford to pay rent by themselves let alone buy a house and pay mortgage, not to mention the hassle of getting financed by banks.

R50 No. I don’t believe that.

However, this year I excuse it because Trump has painted the country as a hellscape. He’s lied and lied and disparaged everything that has made the country great. I’m okay with Dems taking back that language from Republicans.

OTOH, I’d never shit on the US. My grandparents all fled poverty and came here with nothing. No money, no education, no connections. Within 10 years they were married, they owned property, they were free to shed their religion and become agnostic, they had many rights that they didn’t have in the old country. The “old country” is now a great place to live. It does some things better than the US. So, of course, THE greatest is silly. But it was good to us and I hate to see Trump and his little chameleon shit on people doing what my grandparents did.

If we could oust the orange fucker for good I’d be happy with a compromise. I’m not a wordsmith but something that expresses dedication to the ideals of the country, solidarity and dedication to continue improving. I’d lose the religious nonsense and any suggestion that our pride of country means that all other countries are less than and lacking.

Interesting if true.

CNN controlled by major stock holder and Trumper John Malone. Aspires to be Rupert Murdoch.

R59 It’s more of their utter nonsense.

Illegals are freeloads on welfare who are taking all the jobs and not illegal because they “stay on work visas” but very illegal because they used Kamala’s secret app. They break into your home and slit your throat because they have weapons unknown to our military. They are diseased and dirty and can’t speak English. But they have hundreds of thousands in cash to buy homes. They came intentionally to outbreed whites and replace them but also all illegals are military aged men. They’re low IQ but the smartest people you’ll see. They look better than Hollywood actors, supreme specimens but they’re also infested with the aids. They were released from insane asylums but they filled 107% of the jobs created here.

None of it makes sense.

Vivian Hypocrite Vance-a smug piece of shit.

[quote] The MAGAts are losing their shit over Walz saying he was friends with school shooters. It was clearly a misstatement, but they're going to make something of it.

Some of them are probably the whiny Karen types who will drag someone to no end for a blunder or misstatement in oral communication. Years ago, when I worked in customer service for a health insurance company, I dealt with people who had meltdown and dragged me for mistakes or misstatements I made when going over or explaining policies or asking them questions. That job taught me to give people grace in many situations because we are human and can't be perfect all the time with our words.

In the past several years, I know MAGAts who will go fucking nuts on social media if a Democrat makes an honest mistake or misstatement at debates or speaking events. Funny thing most of these MAGAts make numerous grammar and spelling errors in their social media rants or other social media posts.

I'm sure Tim will fall on his sword over-apologizing while you know who would double down till death.

Commentators seem to be saying Vance won on "style," but why are they ignoring all of his lies? He lied all the way through the debate, including saying that he has never supported an abortion ban. Plus he came across as smarmy and fake. No wonder Republicans like him.

Walz may be a little sloppy, but he was effective on issues that matter to Democrats, especially in the second half and at the end when he asked Vance directly if Trump won or lost the last election, and JD would not answer. That was the big news of the night.

I agree with Rachel - one was more slick, and the other won.

JD Vance will say anything to get ahead. And I'm sure he expects Trump to keel over. THen the "tariff plan" will mysteriously disappear.

All I want is for Trump not to be elected. I'd settle for die but you can't have everything.

Vance is trying to appeal to the libertarian or Independent types who don't want abortion completely banned. Some Independent types aren't going to moved by Vance's phoniness and flip flopping on the abortion subject.

[quote]I'm sure Tim will fall on his sword over-apologizing

You are. I'm not.

Immediate polls show that CNN’s instant judgment that Vance won was wrong. I really think this election may break for Harris & Walz in a big way - for lots of different reasons.

My theory of the case is already coming forward on MSNBC’s late coverage. Shady JD’s tack to moderation is a lie and will be rooted out more ferociously than Tim Wolz would have ever been arrested if he had been at Tianamen Sq.

Tonight: “I’ve never supported a national ban on abortion.”

2022: “I would really like to see abortion illegal nationwide.”

Next? Let’s discuss the specific ways The Pussygrabber “improved Obamacare.”

Or peacefully led the transition of power.

I watched the undecided voters in CNN response. Some fat bitch who was also prego said she was so hopeful now that she heard JD Vance cares about her.

That's who our undecided voters think. No fact check, no question about what he's said in the past, so I call BS on undecided voters who claim they have been paying attention and just cant decide 😡

I'm not objective. But trying to put that hat on, I'd say that Vance appeared more polished, and more prepared with smooth statements. Walz appeared more sincere, more earnest, and more passionate about certain issues (women's reproductive rights, and the preservation of American election standards, where the loser shakes hands with the winner and doesn't try to undermine the entire process.

Some Vance answers were so false, I was stunned that he was able to say them with a straight face. "Trump saved Obamacare". "Trump only asked for a peaceful demonstration on January 6".

I think when the fact checkers get busy, there will be a much bigger Vance column than a Walz column.

MAGA and most undecided voters dont care about issues, they care about the most superficial of appearances. So Vance fit that bill for a lot of them. They are not going to go home and check the facts, they want all that served up on a platter and still complain no one is speaking to them.

[quote]The immediate response by most of those who watched this whole thing was that Vance "won" the election. Much more polished, comfortable. Walz was, at first, uncomfortable and seemed a little out of his depth.

Yes of course, many people are saying this, most people - who does this self-serving superficial vagueness remind you of? All the polish in the world wasn't enough to smooth over the brutal facts of J6, ooze though Vance did.

Walz wasn't out of his depth, he performed strongly and sincerely, emanating decency and commitment. He had a full detailed grasp of all policy issues. (For laughable contrast, recall Trump's last debate 'performance.') Walz presented as a mature worldly capable politician, up against a smug slick evasive ambitious pretender. He was by far the more impressive debater.

There really are only two categories of undecideds: the totally uninvolved (who frankly can’t remember whether they’re registered); and those cringingly embarrassed Republicans (who are afraid Santa Claus will tell their daddies how they vote).

I wouldn’t count on either.

I couldn't watch the debate - I was too nervous. I think I have PTSD after the Biden debacle. I'm sorry to hear that Walz didn't perform better, but I suppose next to smooth, lying sociopath Vance, well...that was always going to be tough.

As others have noted, these kinds of things don't really move the needle much one way or the other, but I do hope Vance's smooth performance (in contrast to Dump's cat eating rant) create an All About Eve situation in which Dear Leader thinks Sonny Boy is trying to take the MAGA throne & decides to put him in his place.

[quote]CNN is praising Vance's performance.

Of course it is.

[quote]Rachel Maddow's summary : One candidate is slicker than the other and a more professional speaker, and the other candidate won.

Honestly, Maddow's opinion on Walz is like asking a mother about her favorite son.

[quote] That's who our undecided voters think.

Oh, dear.

[quote] MAGA and most undecided voters dont care about issues, they care about the most superficial of appearances.

So they’re gay men.

Lol R79 imagining Dump as Bette Davis made me chuckle. Even in her cottage Bette has miles more charisma and grace than the Orange dude.

*dotage

I bet that look at R86 creeped out a lot of women.

[quote]My grandparents all fled poverty and came here with nothing. No money, no education, no connections. Within 10 years they were married, they owned property, they were free to shed their religion and become agnostic, they had many rights that they didn’t have in the old country. The “old country” is now a great place to live.

Exactly what is the problem. Nowadays even people with education are unable to own a home, raising children is expensive as hell. People are living miserable life and the corporations want to bring even more people into the country to further lower the wages and the living standards. Trump would never be an issue if the Dems haven’t made life of ordinary people miserable.

Interesting numbers from CNN poll: Walz improved his favorability rating to 59%. Vance improved his to 41%. Only 22% viewed Walz unfavorably. 44% saw Vance unfavorably. Walz (+37) Vance (-3).

I figured that Vance would not appeal to the average person. The beltway types creaming over how slick and experienced he appeared are not seeing this through the average person’s eyes. The average person knows that he went to Yale. They couldn’t find Yale on a map. “It’s in California…or Manhattan” But they do know what it generally means and what they saw was that smug little prick with a fancy degree who comes into their workplace as an exec and puts them through a bunch of BS before moving on and leaving the place far worse than he found it.

Looking around to see what the mainstream takes are… looks like this debate goes into the category of Veep Debates That Change Nothing.

The Harris campaign gets more substantive material to work with, though. I mean… ok so Walz fumblespoke and said “I’m friends with school shooters.” Obviously he meant the victims. But Vance stood there and refused to answer whether he’d have certified the 2020 election. That’s a magnitude more significant.

[quote]Trump would never be an issue if the Dems haven’t made life of ordinary people miserable.

Sure, Svetlana.

R50

I appreciate you asking this question because I imagine it seems highly peculiar from the outside.

As a history buff and fairly theatrical person, I’ve always been stirred by our collective history and our potential for good. I actually get a bit teary during the national anthem when it comes to “oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner yet wave…”. I’m proud of what our ancestors did during WWI and II.

But I am also clear-eyed and highly disappointed in our wasted potential, our greed, our historical need to overturn democratic elections in Central America and elsewhere, and other corrupt moments in our past and present.

So like others have said, it’s a double-edged sword.

What does it seem like to you?

[quote]Nicolle Wallace and Symone Sanders are upset on MSNBC. They don't think Walz hammered Vance hard enough at all on the lies. They think the strategy was all wrong.

I didn't catch Wallace's response, but I caught Symone's and agree with everything she said. At the end of the debate I felt it was a missed opportunity for Walz. He did his best, he came close to the finish line, but just never crossed it. Something was off. I shared Symone's frustration when she was talking tonight. Not even Maddow could really disagree with her.

Joe Scarborough pointed out this morning how distorted the news coverage is now, breezing past outrageous claims & lies by Trump & Vance and trying to equate the “issue” of whether Walz was actually in China during Tianamen Square 30 years ago when he was actually there a couple of months before that. The offense of his not being 100% accurate about an issue which has no importance to current issues equals dangerous lies about eating pets & stealing elections or grossly distorted positions on abortion, health care, climate, & immigration which are relevant & important right now! It was more important to ask a question about that trivial lapse than, for example, support for Ukraine? Really?? Of course, this has always been the case since Trump ran for President the first time. I just don’t understand why they threw out all of our previous moral and civic standards to appease a petty, ugly, & dangerous demagogue.

I am sincerely embarrassed to be an American and I have been for many years. But then again, I was in the US Army and stationed in West Germany in the late 70s, so I know something about living in another country.

Generally speaking, when I have the opportunity and I'm reasonably sure I won't get attacked in some way, when (always) a man says, "America is the best country in the world!" I roll my eyes and say, "How many other countries have you been to?"

This happened a few days ago while I was in line at a convenience store, but I changed my line slightly and said, "If you think America's the best country in the world, you don't get out much." We'd been talking about the hurricane and I said, "When I was stationed in Germany, one of the first things I noticed was that they bury the power lines underground. Then the power doesn't go out the way it does here." The guys couldn't attack me, because I'm a veteran which somehow makes me sacred, so they admitted that was a wonderful idea (since so many of us had lost power in the storm), and agreed that we should do that here.

Sometimes you just gotta hit 'em where they live.

[quote]He did his best, he came close to the finish line, but just never crossed it. Something was off.

I think someone in the previous thread touched on a possible reason. Walz just doesn't seem to have the mean gene, the nasty gene, to access in order to smash home an argument.

He came closest to it last night on abortion and J6. But I can see that the avuncular manner and powerful but soft voice don't resonate enough for some.

I also think Walz was loathe to break the mood of comparative civility in the debate, he didn't want to fall into that trap, be that guy. But who he is is the charming guy we've seen in all the meet-and-greet clips. Given whom he's up against, it's no bad thing he has forceful decency rather than the killer instinct. The substance of what he said is the important thing, and that he conveyed with authority.

Shady’s whole “Republicans have to do better on abortion and win back trust” sounds a lot like George W’s whole “compassionate conservatism” schtick from 20 years ago. That’s not what Dump voters want. They want yelling and name calling and insults.

[quote] I think someone in the previous thread touched on a possible reason. Walz just doesn't seem to have the mean gene, the nasty gene, to access in order to smash home an argument.

But he campaigned his way on to the ticket by labeling Trump & Vance as "weird."

[quote]I didn't catch Wallace's response, but I caught Symone's and agree with everything she said.

Whereas I agreed with the usually less-than-temperate Joy Reid, who said that Symone, like many Democrats, wanted Walz to be an attack dog during the debate .... but that's not what the tiny sliver of undecided voters want to see.

Apparently, pre-selection, Walz told the Harris campaign vetters that he wasn't a good debater.

[quote]Nowadays even people with education are unable to own a home, raising children is expensive as hell.

Homeownership is not much different that the recent historical norm:

In the United States, 65.6% of households owned a home in the second quarter of 2024, which is not statistically different from the fourth quarter of 2023. This rate has fluctuated between 63% and 69% since 1965.

[quote]Same as “Megyn”. Funny to watch her drunken spiral on X, though.

The dumb bitch has turned into Judge Jeanine.

R103 - but generalized high-level stats disguise details. What's the home ownership rate of people 45 and below?

How many of those households own multiple properties? And what is the affordability index for those who do own homes as a % of income?

Our housing market is NOT fine.

What I didn't understand was how Vance was able to get away with no specifics - Trump's economic plan, besides tariffs, what's the plan? We have to do better for women and earn trust back - like what? How do you plan to do that?

The press sits there and attacks Kamala for not having policies (she does) but there's literally nothing besides Project 2025 to go off of for Republicans.

The press sucks.

Because the press isn't interested in playing fair, R106, it's interested in ginning up a horse race. They're pursuing profit, not the truth.

Buttigieg helped Walz with debate prep. Just like he helped Kamala with hers.

Honestly if it was Pete up there he would have taken Vance down without breaking a sweat. He has a lot of experience in this area.

At what point are we gonna stop denying that Buttigieg has what it takes? And get over worrying because he’s gay.

[quote]But he campaigned his way on to the ticket by labeling Trump & Vance as "weird."

But even that word is mild compared to the personal slurs daily spewed by Trump. It's true that's the lowest bar imaginable, and Walz wouldn't want to get into that gutter.

I was glad and surprised when 'weird' took off, in all its understatement. Good to know the right word at the right time can hit home.

R50 here, R94. Let’s just say that I don’t think that any country can lay claim to be the greatest. It’s hyperbolic at best but I’ve had enough experience of being piled on here on the DL when expressing anything other than blind adoration for the USA to open that can of worms!

I find the USA fascinating and visit regularly - I’m finding this election completely engrossing and tbh fucking terrifying because when the USA coughs, we all catch cold.

Hoping for the right result next month!

I cringe, R50. Years ago, I read that the United States consumes 51% of the gross global product per year. Thus, obviously, leaving the remaining 49% for everyone else on earth to divide amongst themselves. (I’m sorry I can’t point to the source for that percentage number; it was a long time ago.)

If I had lived in another country when I learned that, the sight of American tourists in my country would not have gladdened my heart.

[quote]At what point are we gonna stop denying that Buttigieg has what it takes? And get over worrying because he’s gay.

How about if he first demonstrates he can win election to an office bigger than Mayor?

The impact of these debates is incremental, not these quick analyses/flash polls... most people (and critically, most of the very small number of undecided or unmotivated voters in battleground states who will decide this election) did not watch the VP debate. They will get some info from social-media memes, quick takes by voices in their news and cultural spaces, the pictures that get replicated in the substrata of the Public Sphere. For example for Gen Z it's video clips in TicToc ... for Wanda Ozempic in the 3 bed house in Bucks Country it's her Facebook feed... etc. I think Walz "wins" these narratives: kind, relatable, not weird and shady, the qualities reflected in R109's data. That being said, neither Trump nor Harris is "winning" this election yet. The story is yet to be told.

I find it hard to believe that the Dem Senate leads have narrowed. Who really has changed their minds? And why are the leads in the senate so much bigger than the top race? Do so many people really like the Dem senate candidates but still want to vote for Trump? That makes no sense. I think all these polls are nonsense.

R112 Yes, DL is weird. People will say they hate their city, they hate every US city, they are underpaid (while earning way more than they'd earn in London), the food is crap, the people are fat and awful, they want to move to Portugal and on and on. Then one outsider says something fairly benign and the wrath is unleashed!! Suddenly you're a vile POS who is lives in a shithole and you should pay reparations because WW2.

I cringe when I see it and i see it often. Sorry about that.

You're also right about the rest of the world catching a cold. Most Americans have no idea which is a real problem. If we paid more attention to the rest of the world, we would not so infantile as to blame our VP for gas prices, wars, hurricanes, inflation, the cost of housing. I tried to bring a coworker to the light by starting a conversation about how the EU and Australia had recovered from covid, their COL, cost of housing etc It was awful. He thought Australia was 'near England' and he thought that they earned 'way more than us, like waaaay more' and also that their governments gave them a house for free and also that they were 'fleeing here for a better life' Sigh.

Prance is not smooth, he’s an overly made up snake oil salesman begging to be punched in the face with those creepy side glances and lies lies lies.

"Commentators seem to be saying Vance won on "style,"

His style was staring at Walz almost the entire debate. I read it as admiration for someone he knows is winning against all odds. Who resurrected a doomed campaign from the ashes. A sort of suppressed, bitter smile on his lips.

[quote] Do so many people really like the Dem senate candidates but still want to vote for Trump? That makes no sense.

Your mistake is thinking that voters always make sense with their votes.

What I saw in the debate was Tim Walt being Tim Walt , his authentic personality and character, and it was very refreshing to see that natural demeanor in front of a camara in such an important national debate. He presented all the facts very straight forward and casual speech that average people can relate too.

But Vance was fake, that was clearly not his real self, it was too obvious, plus, he was always agreeing with everything that Tim was saying.

I'm reluctant to admit I haven't been following Walz's speeches since the convention. And when I saw Jim Gaffigan play him as a dork on SNL I was concerned. But I was stunned at his focus, articulation and enthusiasm. The first time I saw him as potentially 'Presidential'.

[quote]Commentators seem to be saying Vance won on "style,"

Because a pink tie will always trump policy details.

Tim is fantastic here. This is his natural setting. i hope the campaign floods the internet with appearances like this over the next few weeks.

Great video R124!

Maddow was spot-on when she said (quoting R9), "One candidate is slicker than the other and a more professional speaker, and the other candidate won." Shady JD is a Yale-educated liar who spent his undergrad and then law school days putting on airs as a superior intellect coming from an underprivileged background and is therefore unimpeachable. He's that smarmy, slick and polished chameleon who knows little about what he speaks and uses what he does know to cover up his underlying feelings and fears. IOW, style over substance every day of the week.

For example, his comments about earning women's trust on the abortion issue. No, it's not that Shady and Shitler's (and the entire Republikkkan mob's) stance is abhorrent to the majority of Americans; it's that they somehow lost "trust" on the issue... when they used every trick, con and every ounce of their legislative power to put three ultra-conservative unqualified justices on the SCOTUS for life with the widely expressed purpose of overturning Roe. (In reality, it goes far, far further than Roe, but that's an argument for another thread.) Shady didn't talk about it and made no case upon what this "trust" should be based; in a way, just a circular argument that we should trust DonOld to build trust. Nevermind that on every substantive issue, Mango Mussolini has done the exact opposite of what would earn him "trust". Succinctly: Squirrel!

There is a reason they call the R's "the face-eating leopard party." Shady and Shitler will lie and promise that they won't eat your face right before they take their sharpened knives and begin slicing off your nose, ears...

WaPo’s top headline: “Walz Struggles, Vance Tries to Recast Himself and Other Debate Takeaways”

Lying through your teeth nonstop is now recasting yourself, apparently. Fuck these people.

I don't know why, after nine years of this endless barrage of lies and mistruths, the mainstream media still seems unable to wrestle with them.

Has Trump ever admitted that Russia took out Facebook ads on his behalf in 2016? That throw away comment near the end seemed like it might be a new admission trying to get ahead of something.

The trust thing women was so creepy. Like if we can just get women to trust again maybe they’ll stop struggling and let us finish imprisoning them.

My wife was impressed with Bowman’s looks and went on and on about how her mother voted for John Lindsay for mayor based on his pretty face. But then she returned to Trump’s terrible current appearance and figures Vance ought to push Trump down the stairs to get elected.

Appropriate use of scripture by Walz

The public sphere substrata on God/Goddess and his/her rituals and scriptures.

Vance: "Christ have mercy" responding to Walz's saying his sun witnessed a shooting. (Catholic, and a little inappropriate... lines from the Mass about a shooting. A little arch and calculated. )

Walz: Quoting Matthew 25:10 ".. to least amongst us, you do unto me..." responding to MAGA;s dehumanizing refugees and immigrant. (Appropriate, and seemingly heartfelt - good Lutheran decency and compassion).

Again... this is why I think Walz win/will win the impact of this debate. Real looks better in the replays than slick and manipulative.

[quote]Bitch, I hope you’re being sarcastic, [R21]!

No, he's not being sarcastic. R21 is a MAGAt troll in the vein of Shady JD's performance last night. Sure, he "doesn't agree with their abortion stance" but has no problem with them implementing it. He wonders if, laughably, the Tangerine Tyrant would be better on inflation and affordability when a mere cursory review of the facts would scream an emphatic "Of course they wouldn't be better!" Don and the chameleon [italic]like[/italic] inflation and the unaffordability of homes. Inflation makes corporate profits soar (just look at the earnings reports of nearly every one of the S&P 500) and home ownership sliding further and further away from Americans portends enormous profits for Wall Street and private equity as they buy up all of the available housing stock and turn them into rentals.

But R21's pièce de résistance is his claim that if Democrats can figure out inflation, affordability [italic]and[/italic] somehow diplomatically solve all of the world's problems, he'll vote for them. The key here is to understand that inflation has been solved; the last reports are that inflation has fallen to the 1.5% - 2% range that makes for a stable economy. He's afraid that Kamala's approach to housing might work. So, he sets up an unachievable demand: world peace. IOW, there is no way for the Democrats to earn his vote. There is no offsetting requirement he has for Shady and Shitler to achieve anything, let alone "what works regardless of political affiliation."

I blocked R21 over a year ago when he said he would literally eat his own dog — and that was among the least offensive viewpoints he's vomited all over DL. Watching him troll has been entertaining, but like Shady JD, you cannot believe his faux reasonability for one second.

Yeah, R130, but to (too) many, Trump, warts & all, is the realest of them all.

^ Like a Beverly Hills Housewife in drag.

R124, great video. Can't see TFG in a million years having empathy for a dog...there's nothing in it for him. Everything in his life is transactional (money and what can you do for ME ME ME)...if he only knew huh.

R133, ugh, we could all live without JD Vance done up pretty by AI. Maybe they used a “10% younger Leonardo Dicaprio on his best day” filter.

Making J.D. Vance look thinner and more handsome seems like an odd thing for red-blooded heterosexual Rep. Mike Collins to spend his time on.

R50, regarding how I feel about the “USA, USA!” Crap: Total cringe.

I come from a long line of service members. My dad’s forebears fought for the colonies in the American Revolution and for the Union in the Civil War. My uncles served in WWII, my dad in Korea and my brother in Vietnam. There was none of this “rah rah” shit from them, ever.

No, I don’t feel the US is the best country. We have a lot of things going for us, but we’ve squandered too much and have coasted on goodwill from WWII too long.

Most of the rubes behaving in this way have never been abroad. They are perfectly content in their jingoism and ignorance. There are simply too many of these uneducated, happily stupid people to get real change and a GROWING UP around here.

I don’t hate the US. I live my country. I’m sad that we have chosen to waste our potential on dumb shit and appeasing hateful fukwits and conspiracy theorists.

R133 looks like a mashup with Abe Lincoln.

R97, when are there ever hurricanes in Germany? Never. Strong rain/wind storms but not hurrucanes.

I get patriotism. What I hate, even as an American, is some stupid fucking nonsense like "YOU can't criticize us, only WE can criticize us!" Oh fuck off with that stupidity.

Much more realistic, even if it's a future JD.

This one is hilarious.

I think Walz did fine. He didn’t damage the ticket. They just need to get him back out on the campaign trail now and he’ll be fine.

Whatever some people’s initial impressions of Vance were, they won’t hold up under scrutiny. People see him for what he is. If anything, he hurts the ticket because voters are starting to wake up to the fact that, hypothetically, he might actually have to replace Trump. There’s no enthusiasm for that.

It seems that R140 has missed the point entirely. Thanks for sharing, though!

BTW, Germany has snow, snow, snow (and ice! and sleet!) out the ass all winter long. A hurricane isn't the only weather that can affect power lines!

And I dare you to take on a bunch of good ol' boys talking about "Amurica is the best country in the world!" like I did. You'd be running like a whipped pup with your tail between your legs.

R146 "The President" "Sir" arselicker

R146 not you obviously haha. He's such a creep in every sense

Joe Klein weighs in.

R151 the comments section is interesting. (Had to look up JK, I'm not American)

Karl Rove doesn't see the debate moving any votes.

R148 That's HOT!

R151 The comments are all Republicans and conservatives. Who is Joe Klein?

Joe Klein, a Harris supporter, is a legendary pundit, most famous, probably, for writing "Primary Colors."

[quote] Joe Klein, a Harris supporter, is a legendary pundit, most famous, probably, for writing "Primary Colors."

Also a legendary asshole who will always, always default to "both sides are equally at fault in every single situation." Classic Washington pundit bullshitter desperate to stay in good with every administration and possible administration and every political party and everybody with any political power. Not to be trusted, ever.

[quote] The comments are all Republicans and conservatives.

Mark Halperin, whose 2 Way channel seems to have a mostly republican audience, mentioned Klein's post-debate column on his show this morning.

Huh never heard of him or it but I’m very suspicious of an alleged pro Harris blog that has more comments from Trumpists and conservatives. They’re not there in good faith so he must be feeding them some red meat.

R159, please note this comment to another Klein column from last month.

[quote] Joe, you are a liar, and idiot and an arse. I don’t like to engage in ad hominin challenges but Joe you are the posterchild of the lying media who is the lapdog of the lying uniparty and the corrupt DC swamp who dutifully regurgitates their propaganda. You are a liar when you call President Trump a racist and a bigot. Do you have any evidence to substantiate you claims? You also regurgitate the corrupt media lies that “there were good people on both sides” in Charlottesville included neo-Nazis, Trump’s “bloodbath” comment wasn’t about economic impact to the auto industry, that there wasn’t extensive evidence of election fraud in 2020, that Jan.6 was an insurrection rather than a government false flag operation, that in the highly rigged three to one ABC debate that Trump lost, etc., etc., etc. I’ll concede that President Trump is boorish but the Trump supporters I’ve talked to have come to find Trump’s boorish personality to be a feature rather than a bug because he ticks off all the people we want to be ticked off. And your confusion over Comrade Harris’s flips and lies to try to become more electable while hiding her deeply ingrained Marxist “core values” demonstrates that you just aren’t intelligent enough to tell when a politician is lying. Comrade Kamala may actually be more intelligent than you which is hard to imagine for someone who can actually put whole sentences together. And whether you believe your lies or not you are an arse for not researching the truth and instead just regurgitating the deep state/corrupt media propaganda. But don’t worry, conservative voters are far more intelligent than you and don’t believe your lies. Get ready for MAGA 2.0!

Didn’t watch but did Vance really cause a drink because the fact checkers actually fact-checked?

By the end I was totally loving that old white man. He was hitting the Bible HARD, Im not religious, but he effectively spoke to an important demographic, who need winning over. If it were reversed, Walz/Harris, I wouldn't be worried, but this country is so damned misogynistic a lot of women over 35 aren't 'comfortable ' with her. It's bullshit, but it's still a hindrance. Seriously hoping the youth turnout is high, their reproductive rights are on the line.

What did he say?

From r130:

Walz: Quoting Matthew 25:10 ".. to least amongst us, you do unto me..." responding to MAGA;s dehumanizing refugees and immigrant. (Appropriate, and seemingly heartfelt - good Lutheran decency and compassion).

[quote] But don’t worry, conservative voters are far more intelligent than you

Objection! There is no evidence before the Court that any conservative voter is intelligent, your honor, or even more intelligent than a total Washington hack!

I agree with R130. I was raised Catholic, and I have never heard a single person use "Christ have mercy" in that way. It's part of the Kyrie Eleison, a call and response between the priest and the congregation during Mass. I have certainly heard "Lord have mercy" in conversation, though. We all have, since it's a very common phrase.

I believe James Donald Bowman "Vance" was shoehorning in a name-check of Jesus for the benefit of the Pseudo-Christ Fan Club (the Christian Supremacists) listening, and being very awkward at it. It reminded me of his "everyman" joke attempts at campaign rallies.

He’s also a new convert and he’s a political convert. It’s not sincere, just another manifestation of this unresolved trauma. Using terms out of context and in strange ways is to be expected.

Saying Christ have mercy as an expletive in that context is simultaneously taking the Lord’s name in name and also old womanish sounding and I say that as middle aged woman.

Here’s the Matthew verse in the context of the surrounding verses. Whether you are believer or not it is helpful for understanding the exchange. (Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Services is a fantastic organization)

R165 and others—Walz was born and raised Catholic.

Walz is an active ELCA Lutheran. Magats have been targeting his church for harassment.

R168 yes—that’s a line out of the Mass that no lifelong Catholic would ever use in conversation.

So not believable. If he’d said Judas H Priest, I’d cut *some* slack, since that’s the shortcut used by every Irish mum.

[quote][R2] I think Walz meant to say that he was friends with school shooting victims and he blundered said "friends with school shooters".

r29 Mother of Christ. What a horrible tongue slip. I thought I heard him say that. I was sort of half listening half doing housework.

Mother of Christ is not a thing. 😵‍💫

I think he meant that he knew many hunters, because he was talking about being a hunter in the past.

[quote]I am thinking about the only folks that really matter: those slivers of undecided voters in the battleground states and those Harris voters that may not be that motivated to come out. The debate will not move either group much, if at all.

r35 I honestly think it was a bit of a draw. No one won, but no one lost, either. They both did fine, to me. Then again, maybe our bar for "quality debates" is just abysmally low thanks to Trump setting a new substandard.

Honestly, it seemed like Vance and Walz agreed on a lot more issues than most people expected. You're probably right that this debate won't sway any undecideds. It was a breath of fresh air. I miss political professionalism and decorum and hate what Trump has done to the discourse in this country.

The debate was sound and fury, signifying nothing…

R176 - except that Vance lied about practically everything in his responses.

He's a VERY good liar - so he got style points. But it's scary at how good he is at lying - that's the worse part.

Walz is just a good guy - he doesn't have it in him to tear people apart.

r165, that makes me sentimentally cry. I WANT to wish that good christians would follow Christ's teachings, all we see in the US are the lowest rung of society giving "lip service" and it is so sad

[quote]. It's part of the Kyrie Eleison, a call and response between the priest and the congregation during Mass. I have certainly heard "Lord have mercy" in conversation, though. We all have, since it's a very common phrase.

Kyrie could be translated from the Greek as "god" or " Lord". so lord have mercy is appropriate

r178 What did he lie about specifically?

he lied as soon as he opened his mouth

r182 About what specifically, though? Can you please point out what you're talking about so that I can look into it?

Here you go r183, Rolling Stone did all the work for you.

Here you go. It's a gift article. Read the whole thing.

Well, the other unsaid thing that this debate proved that Kamala is truly the Alpha here. Her smooth effortless takedown of Trump in her debate shows how much her skills are really underplayed.

r185 Thank you. I like the NYT version better, they're more thorough. Although, there is one problem with their fact-check and it's about the bill that Walz signed on abortions in MN. It was an omnibus bill (SF2995) and I searched through it to find this:

[quote]EFFECTIVE DATE.This section is effective the day following final enactment. Sec. 56. Minnesota Statutes 2022, section 145.423, subdivision 1, is amended to read: Subdivision 1. Recognition; [bold]medical[/bold] care. [bold]A born alive[/bold] An infant [bold]as a result of an abortion[/bold] who is born alive shall be fully recognized as a human person, and accorded immediate protection under the law. All reasonable measures consistent with good medical practice, including the compilation of appropriate medical records, shall be taken by the responsible medical personnel to [bold]preserve the life and health of the born alive infant[/bold] care for the infant who is born alive.

There is no way to format a strike through like it's written in the bill so I had to bold the portions of that section that are stuck out of the bill. So, they struck out the portions of this bill that state "An infant as a result of an abortion who is born alive shall be fully recognized as a human person, and accorded immediate protection under the law. All reasonable measures consistent with good medical practice, including the compilation of appropriate medical records, shall be taken by the responsible medical personnel to preserve the life and health of the born alive infant care for the infant who is born alive."

To where is now says, "An infant who is born alive shall be fully recognized as a human person, and accorded immediate protection under the law. All reasonable measures consistent with good medical practice, including the compilation of appropriate medical records, shall be taken by the responsible medical personnel to care for the infant who is born alive."

In other words, doctors are, indeed, no longer legally required to provide life-saving care to infants who are born alive as a result of botched abortions in the state of MN. Vance didn't lie about that.

^ Or am I reading that wrong?

Kimmel got Haley Joel Osment to be his Vance.

Wow he looks a lot like him

R181 - did you not watch the debate? It was obvious if you saw any of his previous interviews or have watched politics.

He lied about abortion. He lied about the ACA and trying to save it when they literally pushed over 90 times to kill it - John McCain stepped in to save it before he died.

He lied about Haitians and immigrants being responsible for high housing prices?? He lies about how there was already a law against pre-existing conditions - it's part of the ACA that he tried to kill.

He lied about being for IVF when he JUST voted against a bill to protect it a couple of months ago. He lied about a peaceful transition of power under Trump.

He lies really well - but it's still lies. A LOT of them - whoppers.

r191 I took most of his statements that you listed as being stated in a misleading way and/or exaggerating truths. I mostly rolled my eyes at it when I heard it because how he worded it, while clever, was not factual.

The NYT article posted by r185 listed his outright lies and I agree with all of their assessments except for the abortion topic. I looked into this further and this is what the original stipulation read for MN regarding infants born alive as a result of abortion:

[quote]145.423 ABORTION; LIVE BIRTHS. Subdivision 1.Recognition; medical care. A born alive infant as a result of an abortion shall be fully recognized as a human person, and accorded immediate protection under the law. All reasonable measures consistent with good medical practice, including the compilation of appropriate medical records, shall be taken by the responsible medical personnel to preserve the life and health of the born alive infant.

They changed it to say this:

[quote]145.423 ABORTION; LIVE BIRTHS. Subdivision 1.Recognition; care. An infant who is born alive shall be fully recognized as a human person, and accorded immediate protection under the law. All reasonable measures consistent with good medical practice, including the compilation of appropriate medical records, shall be taken by the responsible medical personnel to care for the infant who is born alive.

That does read like, to me, they removed the requirement that infants born alive [bold]specifically as a result of a botched abortion[/bold] are legally required to receive life-saving care. If I'm reading that wrong, please correct me. I understand there is already a law that doctors have to provide medical care to every human, but, a fetus is not recognized as human. If it's born alive as a result of an abortion, it sounds like it's still treated as a fetus and therefore is no longer protected under law to receive life-saving care.

I'm pro-choice. So, if I'm reading it that way, you can best believe that the most aggressive pro-life voter is reading it the same and feeding into the "Democrats are extreme baby-killers" narrative. The MN government also listed that stipulation as part of an improvement to abortion care. What is a good argument to counter a pro-lifer with when (not if, when) they bring up this section of the bill Walz signed? I'm asking sincerely. Because I can't think of a good retort and like to shut-down people with hard facts.

Not sure you all saw the same debate I did but Vance won like it or not. 99% of the world doesn't have the same access to the profound opinions of the DL as we do.

R193 - here's another take

R193 - and another

[quote]Magats have been targeting his church for harassment.

How very Christian of them.

r193 I think it was a draw.

Yeah,couldn’t watch it since Biden disaster and I was right about one this too.Dems R Doomed.

I too am like totally undecided and sure that everything is terrible for Dems forever and ever amen, like192, and like totally not already convinced that Trump is God's chosen instrument and JD Vance is Trump's chosen instrument.

This things I believe!

Also, Dems are dooooommmmeeedddd, as Lord Jesus Christ and Laura Loomer have commanded!

r199 You're...not helping this conversation, at all.

Please don't doubt my sincere faith in Trump, Vance, and the one true Prophet Laura Loomer r200. That would be cruel and crazy.

Also, hold me, David, the abortionist is coming to get me. I can feel it!!

r201 No. I asked a serious question at r192 of how that section of the bill reads and how to defend it. You are providing, as Walz would say, a damning non-answer. How do you interpret that bill amendment on the born-alive stipulation?

Walz was the 'winner' because he was a big question mark for a lot of Undecideds, and he demonstrated himself to be intelligent, experienced, empathetic, diplomatic, open-minded and focused. Harris/Walz bagged a megaton of votes last night.

Shady was just Turd's asslicker. Nothing to offer anyone except another shameful Trump administration: 2016 Part Deux.

Just stop, please—the kids of Cider House.

r204 Why? Do you not understand the question?

I was abused, and aborted!

[quote] That does read like, to me,

This reads to me like you're an idiot.

r207 You are saying a lot of nothing and being purposefully obstinate. I'm not doing this today. You're blocked. Don't have time. I asked a basic question regarding this bill amendment and you outright refuse to answer it either to get on my nerves, deflect, I don't what the hell you're doing, but I'm not giving you more energy.

Just as well r208, you are tedious. Not that you'll see this apparently, and that's fine too. You may just be a very stupid person and that's unfortunate, but honestly not my problem.

Evangelicals for Harris ad

Wow!!!

damn, those ads are great r210.

You aren't fooling anybody, r193.

Walz is probably hungry, I noticed he has really been losing weight recently. Since Harris chose him the guy has been on the move. I sometimes wonder what the candidates family really thinks, I wouldn't want to move into the White House in the middle of my Senior year of high school.

I'm sure they won't move Gus and disrupt his comfortable setting. They have family in the area who can help. And you saw how happy he was fir his dad.

I did r215. When I was in high school my dad's company transferred him to Florida. This was in the 80's and I was excited because when our family used to go on spring breaks to Florida it was so fun. But living your daily life there was a different story, I was a fish out of water in high school there and really missed my old school and friends. I know his family is excited for him but him being VP is a definite change in lifestyle no matter how down to earth you are.

R214, VP's live at 1 Observatory Circle. I hope Gwen, Tim and Gus live together once he's installed as VP. They seem a very close knit family.

Don’t forget Hope, r217!

I just can't believe the moderators didn't burst out laughing when Jaydine gaslit his ass off claiming that Trump saved Obamacare/ACA.

It takes a true sociopath to lie with that much ease and not even break a sweat. And those are the most obvious, easily disprovable lies. We do keep records of this stuff, Jaydine.

[QUOTE]Walz is probably hungry, I noticed he has really been losing weight recently. Since Harris chose him the guy has been on the move. I sometimes wonder what the candidates family really thinks, I wouldn't want to move into the White House in the middle of my Senior year of high school.

Someone so dark aped should try to claim why this about Gus Walz?

A 17 year old child will be newly surrounded by people who think they're "funny" by having cashier icons, and actually receiving scads of money?

Fucking Cunt....

We're all gathering from your fuck.

R219 I burst out laughing at the old wind bag's discursive answer

Hi JD @R222! Now get off DL and go tend to Usha's sexual needs.

J.D. prefers tending the the couch's needs.

R218, Hope works in Bozeman I think you'll find.

Vance has set a scary precedent imo.

I look back and imagine George W telling major whoppers which contradict his actions. “Sweden is responsible for Afghanistan”, “I never wanted to invade Iraq, I was completely against it, Christ have mercy, but Nancy Pelosi insisted we must” Then being declared a resounding winner.

But most of all I look to 2028 and it’s going to be a shitshow. All of the MAGA loons now know that the only thing between them and a position in the mainstream of politics is a few debating lessons. Come out, say you voted for things you never voted for. Say that you’re pro choice when there are 500 clips that prove otherwise. Say you’re against things when you wrote the Bill to pass them. Do it all with a smile and you will be totally sane washed and accepted by polite society. MAGA and the far right with let you away with it because they know you’re lying to get power and then you’ll rule with your true beliefs.

The R primary is going to be disgusting.

Dear R192 who is probably a troll. It means that if a woman gets an abortion because her fetus did not develop a brain past the brain stem and is not viable and the resulting baby takes one breath before dying after birth the Doctor is not required to do CPR and put it on life support.

And ff I have a family member who had a tragic miscarriage of a very wanted baby in the hospital before viability and the doctors let her hold her baby while it took its few breaths rather than attacking it with machines (adding cruelty to tragedy) and if the law had been left to read the other way she would have never been able to. So women are angry and JD Vance can take a long walk off a short pier.

Is that overly roasted pig, Carl Rove, @ R153 waiting to receive a holy communion wafer, or his next cock? Another fucking porker that needs to slip and fall in a raging, epic, grease fire.

R227 is correct. My cousin had the same experience. She couldn’t imagine a scenario where the baby was taken and hooked up to die alone on a machine. During her second pregnancy she was told that the pregnancy was not viable. She chose to terminate. She couldn’t imagine going home and living with the anxiety of wondering when she would miscarry while people noticed her bump and congratulated her. She can’t listen to political discourse on abortion, she says the pro life side talk about it like a bunch of self righteous teen boys.

What kind of sick fuck thinks torturing a non-viable neonate is pro-life? Is the JD supposed to stand for Jeffrey Dahmer? Maybe he’d like a camera to document that the ribs got cracked and multiple punctures made and none of that palliative care nonsense happened before the non-viable neonate died.

What’s up next? Mandatory insertion of pacemakers into people terminally ill with cancer for shits and giggles.

Magats are fucking sociopaths and proud of it. Any more questions R192? Would you like to discuss this more? Because I am here for that. Let’s talk about it.

they only care about owning the libs, doesn't matter anything else

[quote]—He's no Shapiro

As you keep regurgitating, r222.

and that eye roll R232 getting a little old don't you think?

[QUOTE]—He's no Shapiro

Correct, Walz isn't slick or with the bucket-load of self-promotional agenda.

[quote]and that eye roll [R232] getting a little old don't you think?

It still serves its purpose.

it does R235 it shows how unoriginal the poster is and how inept they are art downloading.

I like Shapiro and Walz. I don’t get the hate

R234 yet I feel that Shapiro's family would have his back unlike Walz's family

[quote]I like Shapiro and Walz. I don’t get the hate

r237, the only one who is hating on Walz is r236. She's still butt hurt over it not being Shapiro and won't let it go.

LoL, r238, You lose us at NY Post. Try to be a little more subtle with your troll links.

R234 no he isn't slick; he's a 'knucklehead'

He’s OUR knucklehead. And he has no ambition beyond getting her elected and supporting her to a successful term. That is all. He’s the Ur-VP.

[Quote] Now get off DL and go tend to Usha's sexual needs.

btw Mate, Gwen looks like she could use a good rogering

I feel like we're about to have a new Teafake character. This one is Australian ^.

Kristen Wiig Begged for 'SNL' Return Over Tim Walz Wife Video

[quote]Dear [R192] who is probably a troll.

r227 Thank you for the explanation and clarification of what that means. I'm not a troll. Frankly, you could've left that little dig out and just cleared it up. I was already irritated enough trying to figure that out, so the condescension was highly unnecessary. Respectfully. I genuinely did not understand what the benefits of removing that wording would be.

[quote]Any more questions [R192]? Would you like to discuss this more? Because I am here for that. Let’s talk about it.

r230 Okay, you need to calm the fuck down, ma'am. As I already explained, I'm pro-choice but reading that section of the bill gave me pause because I didn't understand the benefits of modifying the wording to remove the "as a result of an abortion" and "preserve the life and health of the infant." I also am savvy enough to reason that if I read it the way I did initially, aggressively pro-life people would definitely do the same, but I had sense enough to question it to gain more understanding, whereas they would just write those who support the measure off as "barbaric baby killers."

You gain more flies with honey. I understand this topic makes people on both sides of the matter, but you will never, I repeat, NEVER, change the view of a pro-lifer to being pro-choice with that attitude. I am proud to say that I've personally managed to sway people who were previously pro-life over to being pro-choice because I was able to explain to them the gravity and truth of these situations. I just didn't know how to best to defend that amendment to that specific bill in a way that made sense and was backed up by facts.

You can go on labeling these people as evil and psychopaths, but you have to understand the place they are coming from. They are, for the most part, coming from a place of being concerned about ending the lives of babies and many aren't even aware that these situations involve cases where the mother absolutely wanted her baby but something went horribly and tragically wrong. If you're not able to have these conversations without the nasty attitude, then stay out of it. Again, you could've just explained/clarified it and went on about your damn day without the funky-ass attitude. (Yes, I now have one as well because I don't appreciate the insinuation as someone who is pro-choice and am genuinely pissed the fuck off).

^ *this topic makes people on both sides of the matter emotional

Is what that should say.

Yeah, but you know the difference between God and Elder Lez. God doesn't think he's Elder Lez.

That’s silly

r249 99% of the time, I don't have an issue with ElderLez and most off her posts are helpful, informative, and non-combative. But that was some bullshit.

Yeah, I tend to agree, R251. But you can't argue she lacks self-confidence either way. It's the curse of being authenticated. You always know who's playing the trumpet again.

I like the nightlife, I like to boogie

These are the types of situations that likely apply, here, which is what I was suspecting when I read that amendment but still was unsure. And yes, they are incredibly heartbreaking. There is no medical technology available that can save a previable baby born this pre-term. The technology is, however, being worked on (see the next video).

Hopefully this will become a reality someday.

these are EXTREMELy rare cases

I see fake me using a capital I in place of a lowercase case l for the letter after E is back at R253.

You know who does understand that distinction in the wording? JD Vance understands it. R173 other posters did try to explain it to you nicely without going into the gory details and you didn’t listen to them. At the risk of sounding like Roxanne Gay, refusing to look something up your self, demanding other people educate you, arguing with the people you’ve asked to educate you that they haven’t done a good enough job and then when someone does get through to you that “well you could have been nicer about it” is EXHAUSTING.

this lesbian drama is becoming more convoluted than the women's basketball threads of yore!

[quote]other posters did try to explain it to you nicely

r257 Where?? I didn't bring that specific issue up until r187 and not only did no one try to explain it, but one poster (who is now blocked) just dismissed the question and wrote me off as "an idiot" for asking for clarity. I did look it up, that is how I found the actual bill in the first place. My question was how to explain that this was actually beneficial to both the mothers and babies it affects in a way that would persuade pro-lifers to understand that the provision wasn't a move out of "barbarism" but healthcare. Yes, the gory details are actually necessary when having these conversations. You have to incorporate the emotional impact this has on families because these people are coming from a position of "protecting babies and preserving families."

With all do respect, I'm not particularly interested in how "exhausted" you are with explaining this. As far as we know, there was no gun to your head forcing you to not only respond to my query, but do so in a way that was highly disrespectful. There was no excuse for that.

How are you on this site and ignorant of the Roxanne gay exhaustion reference?

r260 I don't pay that much attention to every single DL reference (that being one of them). You would've done better referencing Vivian Vance's "having had sufficient."

Anyway, just keep in mind, these are people who sincerely believe that full grown babies are being "ripped apart in the womb" at the behest of "heartless moms who don't want them" and by "psychopathic murderous doctors." They reach their extreme positions by being fed hyperbole and misinformation. You have to meet them where they are at, and provide cold, hard, disturbing facts so that they have a better understanding of how their position does the exact opposite to their stated goal (i.e. protecting babies and families).

This is how I've been able to change the view of a few pro-lifers who, honestly, held their positions out of lack of thorough education and grave misunderstandings. Some of whom were raised Catholic ffs, (I'm agnostic). You will not reach these people with hostility and condescension. It will go through one ear and out the other and they will double-down. Seems like you'd want to avoid that to get more people to vote to preserve a woman's right to choose now that this issue has been turned over to the states. Call me crazy.

That said, I've had sufficient of this discussion. I understand that bill amendment better now and can defend it to those who will just take JD Vance's word, skim through it, and believe he was being anything but disingenuous due to their own lack of knowledge of these very sensitive matters and real-life tragedies. Thank you.

trollin trollin trollin!!!

I am Team ElderLez on this one.

Let's just let it go? Does the site have to be about Team anything?

R245 If Kristen Wiig ends playing Gwen Walz on SNL, she would probably Gwen as some kind of dumb simpleton. Gwen should be left alone when it comes to SNL.

I am Team R264

I agree. Too many threads are ruined by two posters just going after each other. If someone attacks me on here, I'll respond once or twice and then leave them to their own devices.

Wouldn't this be fun?

Seems like wishful thinking.

Basically, JD just changed the slipcovers...

R265 She's fair game as she has appeared and spoken on the campaign trail. She's a public figure.

Yeah, r268 is wishful thinking.

The media has already forgotten about it and has moved to sanewashing the whole thing.

WE are the ONLY way to stop these thugs. It’s up to US to stick the knife in his proverbial throat and END his reign of terror once and for all by voting for Harris.

Hopefully, getting cunt punted in November will send him over the edge and into the pit of hell FOR GOOD.

I love when JayDine tries to act all manly & alpha when all of America knows his proclivities

A lot of America alas sees a “sane” version of trump, even though he ain’t.

Re: R270, Vance at the debate was indeed ninety minutes of attempted gaslighting. Which never works when you can smell the gas through your screen.

and some of that smell R275 may have been emanating from Walz who came across as the very definition of 'gas bag' i.e. someone full of hot air or inclined to make a lot of empty talk.

Someone who talks a lot without saying anything of substance.

My personal favorite bit of bullshit Vance tried peddling was that illegal immigrant children were smuggling in the fentanyl that's killing anyone it touches, no mention of China, of course.

[quote]and some of that smell [R275] may have been emanating from Walz...

Not close to Vance slickly smilingly attempting to smooth over J6. Breathtaking that he sought to sanitise that mountain of psychopathic ordure. He had to in order to please his criminal daddy, but it's usefully on record for ever.

R268 You just know that Thiel and Musk and all those tech&crypto guys backing Trump/Vance would like another better than to see Trump go.

BTW: Vance's Machiavellian performance at the debate was masterful.

^ would like nothing better than

From the NYT live election blog:

Asked about his position in Georgia this November, Trump said he was confident he could win the state and offered a rare admission of his loss. “I won easily in 2016. We actually were very close last time,” he said.

This is why you don’t make deals with the devil, JD.

Gee, r276, whose side are you on? Oh, wait...

R282 why is it about sides? His avoidance in answering the question was obvious. Walz's wavering reply to the question has been widely discussed in the media. The moderator felt the need to restate the question as she felt he hadn't answered it.

[quote]and some of that smell R275 may have been emanating from Walz who came across as the very definition of 'gas bag' i.e. someone full of hot air or inclined to make a lot of empty talk.

[quote]Someone who talks a lot without saying anything of substance.

Whatever, r283.

R284 the irrelevant series of details Walz gave that had nothing to do with the question that was asked is worthy of the eyeroll.

[quote]Someone who talks a lot without saying anything of substance.

Well, Walz's running mate does the same thing. Big time.

On the other hand, except for the question about Jan 6th, Vance answered all of the questions directly.

Problem is, a lot those answers needed massive fact checking.

I love Walz. I think he was the right choice. But his answer about the dates of his China trip was monumentally inept.

That being said, it is chump change compared to the existentially poisonous gaslighting of the little weasel Vance. That anyone would suggest that it's a "both sides" prevarication is nuts.

America really is in an abusive relationship with MAGA.

[Quote] But his answer about the dates of his China trip was monumentally inept.

A simple 'I misspoke' would have sufficed which is eventually what he said when the question was put to him a second time

He said he wasn't a good debater.

Panel of black women react to the Walz/Vance debate

Walz wasn’t great in the CNN interview either but he is fantastic on stage in front of 10,000 people. He seems to be totally comfortable speaking to the people and his colleagues. TV, where there is no crowd, and he had no control over the questions trips him up. I think they are both doing great. I’m genuinely in awe of Kamala’s DNC speech and her debate and of the way Walz came out in Philly and lit up the stage. I hate that they have to be this good just to get it to a toss up. I certainly couldn’t do what they’ve done and I think most people feel that way which is reflected in Walz’s favorability. If they win, he can get some media training before January but he should never be polished up like Vance.

I honestly don't care what a panel of black women think about the debate.

Those voters in Ohio sound stupid. They didn't know who they were voting for! Were they high?

[quote]Tim Walz has a tendency to misspeak.

With Trump, that's not a tendency, it's a lifelong mission statement. It's intrinsic. Go for Tim by all means - but Trump's misspeaking list goes into volumes, and will continue, will worsen. He's a convicted felon (with more to come) for a reason.

JD Vance didn’t replace Tim Ryan as senator of Ohio. They both ran for the open seat of Rob Portman in ‘22.

^ He's such a smarmy pri*k.

JD Vance had no record to run on, so he couldn't be attacked for that. And, he was backed by millions from Thiel and the MAGA billionaires. Tim Ryan ran one of the stupidest campaigns ever. He ran against China, not the Republicans. His message was exclusively limited to China and its unfair business practices ( no one cared). His speeches in Congress were fire-breathing condemnations of Republicans and heir abuse of power. Then, when it came to the campaign...nothing. The Dem base did not feel the need to go out to support a campaign like that, whereas, no one knew anything about Vance.

Yes, ^^^ that.

But I also remember thinking at the time that Tim Ryan comes across as a raging asshole who just happens to be right on most of the issues. The Dem base did not feel the need to got out to support that either.

No, Laura Looney at R299. We have sufficient.

Of course, R299. Everyone knows how shallow "the gays" are. Like a pack of squealing teenage girls.

Tim Ryan was never going to win his '22 Senate race. In Ohio. Where the top of the ticket - Republican DeWine - won by 25%.

[QUOTE]But I also remember thinking at the time that Tim Ryan comes across as a raging asshole who just happens to be right on most of the issues

Could you post a link or two that demonstrate how Tim Ryan came across as a raging asshole to Ohio voters?

Empiricism counts, even in small amounts -- if you dare to participate.

SNL Opener Kamala ad Doug watch the VP debate

Ryan also never spoke about Roe being overturned. It had just happened earlier that summer and he never spoke of it.

With Democrats running nationwide on Dobbs, I find that hard to believe, R309.

My memory is that Ryan played that Manchinesque role of "oh I'm an independent, not like all those woke Democrats".... and unfortunately he was just kind of gruff and annoying. No, a progressive Dem wasn't going to get elected in Ohio, but it would have helped to have a candidate who didn't annoy.

Didn't Ryan make alot of noise about replacing Pelosi too? Or was that someone else. I think that was a major mis step at the time

73% of the responders chose Vance as the winner

[quote] Didn't Ryan make alot of noise about replacing Pelosi too?

He did, but that was in a different election cycle.

At this point, that debate matters not at all. The focus shifts back to the principals. Walz did no harm, that's the important thing.

R315 I want to believe this... but something nags at me. The very slim demographic of voters who are undecided or able to be moved... don't like Trump's craziness. Vance successfully showed that "the MAGA Mind" could be courteous, "normal".... like they say, he sane-washed Trump. I don't think viewers like Vance more than Walz... but Vance did give a "permission structure" for those voters on the fence to think, "oh, Trump isn't THAT crazy"...

“alot”? People are still doing that?