Monsters: The Lyle and Erik Menendez Story Part II

Part I:

They were totally fucking

R2 I think so too. I think they had an incestuous relationship. There were rumors, and usually rumors have some root in the truth.

Where there’s still smoking dicks …

Exactly. Where there's smoke there's fire.

Never saw this little clip. Horrid.

I watched the whole series and after episode 4 it gets so dark and depressing that I found it very hard to watch. All four Menendezes are/were such terrible people I could not feel sorry for any of them, even though their lives were pretty hellish. I think this is the biggest problem with the series--there's no one either to root for (not even a charismatic anti-hero figure like a Walter White or a Tony Soprano). So after the first two episodes, which are very attention getting (the 1st with the recounting of the murders, and then the 2nd with the boys spending like crazy afterwards to enjoy their fortune like pigs in shit, and wearing barely anything) there's really nowhere for the series to go after that.

I don't think this is going to get much awards attention, although episode 5 may get a nomination for writing, and Cooper Koch may get a nomination for that episode (but I doubt he will win--any halfway decent actor might get a nomination for that kind of episode because it's so unusual and allows someone so much time to shine). This isn't really being talked up outside of Datalounge, and here it really only is because of the actors' hot bodies and the gay sex angle. Nicholas Chavez is absolutely beautiful but he's only adequate in the part, and it doesn't allow him that much to do.

I did think Bardem and Sevigny were quite good, but the screenplays don't allow for Kitty and Jose to be very humanized or developed.

We all know it was Danny and Jose Jr.

I don't watch tv shows or movies depending on whether there's a character I can "root for." It's all about the story. I thought this series was very good. Yes, they were all horrible people. It made for compelling watching. Javier Bardem was excellent, nobody can play a stone cold bastard like he does.

It's worth watching just to see Koch and Chavez stripped down. Oh yeah, and Javier Bardem.

R7 I agree that it felt very disjointed. I personally think the first half of the season was the strongest. Episodes 1 to 3 are my favorites. 4 was decent and 5 was great due to Cooper Koch and his brilliant acting. Episodes 6-9 got a bit boring and repetetive imo. I didn't feel like there was a need for Dunne either. What I don't agree with though is why you would need to root for Kitty or Jose. Why humanize them? Why not show them for the monsters they allegedly were?

You misunderstand me--I did not think they necessarily needed to be humanized for the sake of telling the story.

But I think their characters' flatness in the screenplays will make it unlikely either actor will be nominated for awards for these performances.

It was said in the other thread, but kind of far down, that this is told from 10 view points, so that's why it seemed disjointed. I pesonally like it like that, and I enjoyed Dominic's version. I was over Dunne for a while but this made me remember why he was invested in murder and justice.

I'm so confused over Erik's sexuality. He pings like crazy and he is into modeling and acting (or at least he was back then). And then there's this... he is a fan of reality shows and even Supernatural. Yet Lyle is the one who has had gay relationships in prison, not Erik? It's truly mind boggling.

r14 Doesn't seem the least bit gay in that

R11, why "humanize" their lying, murdering sons? Because you believe their lies? Same guys who lied and lied at every turn and said the mob killed their parents so they could go on a shopping spree?

R14, no, Erik had gay relationships in prison, too

I still can't tell them apart.

r18 I have trouble, also - but Erik had wavier (real) hair

In real life, Lyle would hide his hairline under his bangs to hide that he was wearing a wig.

Erik usually brushed his hair back so you could see his hairline.

I'm glad it's not just my sister. I was getting seriously annoyed she kept asking me who each one was. I told her, "Eriks has the curly hair, Jfc!" And blue eyes.

R17 How do you know?

How could Murphy have passed up the opportunity to have Chavez in a prison fuck scene?

I knew Vicki Lawrence was in it, but MAGA, bitch juror was nearly stroking out before I realized it was her. Too, bad her part was so short. She really did sound off like Thelma Harper.

WTF about her being "MAGA?" This took place thirty years ago.

I don’t think they are sociopaths. I think there was abuse. I don’t think they killed for money. I think they stayed for money. I do think the brothers were sexual with each other. I think both are likely bi.

I enjoyed the series for what it was. It was very entertaining. I do wish more of these types of series tried to get as much accurate as possible without making stuff up.

You don't think they're sociopaths?! Listen to the Dr. Oziel tapes.

R27 Very damaged, but not sociopaths.

If/when they come out I hope they're able to talk about everything. I doubt they'll talk about their sexuality though, since they are both married to women I highly doubt they will admit to being bi, which is a shame. Some fans claim Lyle is living life as an openly bi man in prison, but I have no idea if that is true or not. Either way he's married to a woman, so....

Didn't recognize Vicki Lawrence at first. She was good, though!

This is the Dominick Dunne's Power, Privilege, and Justice episode about the brothers

Thank you for the link r30. I've never seen that episode.

Chavez Is probably uncut.

Can you imagine how much "fan" mail they're getting now? I think it was the Barbara Walters interview from mid 90s that said something like they still got 1000s of letters back then. What a strange world.

I do agree with r28. I don't think they're sociopaths. I think they snapped for a variety of reasons.

They, and the actors, are hot. The brothers are still sexy. They, like a lot of inmates, are absolutely hooking up with males. Married to women in case they ever get out.

Erik is definitely bisexual. He had a relationship with his friend when he was a teen and then there's this, it's a quote from a book about the Menendez brothers. Just read it. He wrote poems to boys and girls he liked. I have no idea why he lied on the stand? Well, I guess he didn't lie when they asked if he's gay because he's not, he's bi. And it is possible he's had relationships in prison, we don't know everything. Heck, maybe he's a straight leaning bi, they exist.

Happy I got proof my gaydar is not totally faulty. Lyle and Erik are most likely both bi.

R34 Exactly. It's funny that LSA call them both ugly. They said they would be getting a lighter sentence if they were hotter. I was like huh?! They were attractive then and they're attractive now, even 30 years later. Erik is very popular on tiktok among gen Z.

Someone on Part 1 mentioned the book "The Menendez Murders" by Robert Rand. I always thought the boys made up the abuse allegations, until I read this book which, in graphic detail, depicts Jose drugging and raping a member of Menudo at the family home in Princeton. "Menendez & Menudo: Boys Betrayed" is on Peacock but you can find excerpts and trailers on Youtube.

That doesn’t mean he raped his own children, R38.

Robert Rand is a joke who is totally biased and the Menudo guy is full of it, too

Read Blood Brothers by Ron Soble and John Johnson instead

R38 Literally watched this doc yesterday. It was well made. I believe he abused that Menudo member. I also believe he abused his own sons. The showers with them and their dad, people not being allowed to walk down the hall when he was in their bedrooms etc. It all adds up.

Vickie Lawrence's scene reminded me of Julia Sugarbaker's jury duty screed.

[QUOTE] Literally watched this doc yesterday. It was well made. I believe he abused that Menudo member. I also believe he abused his own sons. The showers with them and their dad, people not being allowed to walk down the hall when he was in their bedrooms etc. It all adds up.

Why didn’t the boys tell their therapist? They were seeing him for years and never mentioned it?

R41 You “literally watched it, huh?

R43 Because they were afraid, probably. Oziel was close with their dad. That's what I've read anyway. And lets play devil's advocate here. Lets say they were never abused by their parents. Lets say they killed their parents for greed, because they wanted the inheritance, it's been more than 30 years. Are they a danger to society if they are let out? I don't believe they are.

[quote] Are they a danger to society if they are let out? I don't believe they are.

R45 You're entitled to believe that, but I'm perfectly fine with them both spending the rest of their lives behind prison walls without the possibility of parole. I'm inclined to believe there was abuse in that house -- verbal, emotional, physical/hitting, and [ital]perhaps[/ital] sexual. There were the two relatives, an aunt and cousin (?), who testified that the brothers had confided in them about sexual abuse years before the murders. However, the evidence much more likely points to money as being their motive. There was evidence that Jose had told them they were being disinherited, due to the fallout over the Calabasas burglaries and Lyle's Princeton plagiarism suspension. So, they needed to act before Jose and Kitty could execute new wills. That's why both parents needed to go -- if they just killed Jose, Kitty would be the surviving spouse for the marital estate. After the murders, there was evidence the brothers tried to have the parents' computer wiped, as they feared it might have drafts of new wills. Same with the safe weirdness, that it might contain updated wills. And let's not forget the brothers' prolific spending, which began literally days after the murders.

All that said, even if abuse [ital]was[/ital] the motive, the remedy for that is not slaughtering your alleged abusers with multiple shotgun blasts throughout their bodies as they snooze on the sofa.

So we’re supposed to feel sorry for two young gay men who get fucked by Javier Bardem?

I don’t get it.

Thank you R46. I couldn't have put it better. If their dad had been produce manager at Von's, I don't think they would have been as compelled to kill him, and definitely not Kitty. The bottom line is they were greedy fucks who killed for money and I wouldn't feel safe as Mrs. Menendez if they got out and I had a life insurance policy. Their star-fucker-iness is also not unnoticed. They hate the show but want to meet the actors, they're besties with Rosie O (they're liars and will get cancer, though) and I sure don't hear about all the abuse victims they counsel in the pen. They can end their lives there. I know Erik's idiot wife spends most of her time running errands for him, sending him canteen stuff, doing whatever he wants. They live comfortably, which is more than most prisoners, so they can stay there.

Maybe Tori Spelling should have gunned down Aaron and Candy...

[QUOTE] Lets say they killed their parents for greed, because they wanted the inheritance, it's been more than 30 years. Are they a danger to society if they are let out?

🤣🤣🤣 Yes, they are a danger to society. What the fuck. If you can shotgun your parents to death in cold blood, including coming back for kill shots when you saw they were still breathing, then you can murder anybody over anything. They should’ve been executed! Their sycophants should be grateful they’re still alive.

[quote]Chavez Is probably uncut.

He's American so he's probably cut.

r44 is the troll who gets triggered whenever somebody uses the word "literally." It's 2024 babe, it's a part of modern speech. Get the fuck over it.

I always fantasized about gunning down my horrid, abusive stepfather. I didn't have the guts.

Yes, and if I did everything I’ve ever fantasized about, the state surely would’ve executed me by now.

I found this series really boring after maybe Episode 2. It was a struggle to get through it.

R55 oh ok

I do think they were abused but at the same time they were two grown men who could've moved out of the house and lived their own lives independent of their parents.

As horrible as it is, untold numbers of people experienced horrific abuse growing up but they got away and managed to survive on their own.

They were abused, and also didn’t want to be disinherited.

I really like it and I'm not done. I love Murphy and true crime, but I wasn't sure about this. I saw the one with my girl Courtney Love as their mom, and it was not good. I know how Murphy always starts strong and then devolves halfway through, but I actually watched 7 eps in one sitting. I love that they're showing it from so many points of view, and I didn't think I would love the Dunne parts, but I love those too. Did that bitch Abramson really make that crack about his daughter's murder giving him a career or something? The scene where he tells Leslie that either the abuse is real or that she coached a true psychopath into his testimony and that he didn't know which was scarier, was perfect.

R59 gets it. I felt the same way about everything you mentioned.

The only thing you left out was all the Nicholas Chavez eye candy.

Their stupid, histrionic yet fake, 911 call is so hilarious. If I were in prison with them, I would clown them about it every time I saw them.

A little off topic, I watched the E True Hollywood story about Poltergeist last month. I didn't realize that Dominique Dunne had a friend over that she was running lines with when she was killed. This guy actually heard them outside fighting and Sweeney killing her and didn't immediately call the police. It's just mindboggling to me that he just froze and didn't do something. I'm not saying he should have gone and fought the guy, but he should have done something sooner. I would probably not show my face and talk about it if I were him.

That guy was the actor David Packer, they were both filming the tv miniseries "V" (one of the greatest of all time, about an alien invasion) and he did nothing to help her.

Yes R63! That's who it was, thanks. Yeah I just couldn't believe he just kind of sat there while this was all going on. Like Dunne said, it took five minutes for him to strangle her, and before that they were loudly fighting. Maybe he was just frozen.

And was Kitty a blowsy, drunken, incompetent, pill head or a master assassin, coldly plotting to murder her own sons? It can't be fucking both, boys. That's always been the problem, why Kitty too? And that's how you know it's all bullshit. It's like Jodi Arias claiming she feared Travis, yet driving 9 hours to his house. The boat killing scenario was fucking preposterous. They couldn't get those assholes to do anything, but they were able to get them out on a boat? Come on!

^ Kitty told her shrink that she thought her sons were sociopaths and that she was scared of them.

Stop dumping on David Packer.

If it’s true Kitty knew about the abuse, how the fuck could she not, they had every right to hate/fear her. They endured abuse in order to be rich. Their parents threatened that which sent them over the edge.

They weren't scared of her, she was scared of them.

R67 Says who? A made up scene from the series? She SHOULD’VE been scared of them if she knew they were being raped and did nothing about it. They had a lot of friends/teachers/coaches saying they were not sociopaths.

R67, no, it's not from the series. Read the book Blood Brothers. Her shrink said this.

Kitty should have been scared. If you're going to rip off someone's toupee, then be prepared to pay the price.

r65 / r67 She also told her shrink that she was terrified of José, and that she always knew "something was off" in how he treated the boys even from a very early age.

Sounds like Murdagh family. They’re all awful. No sympathetic characters.

I could never keep the brothers straight. I thought Lyle was the lantern jawed short haired one and Eric the dark wig one. Then it was opposite. Now I’m back to which is which.

Ryan Murphy is being cunty again with the "poor, pitiful us".

[quote] I'm so confused over Erik's sexuality. He pings like crazy and he is into modeling and acting (or at least he was back then). And then there's this... he is a fan of reality shows and even Supernatural. Yet Lyle is the one who has had gay relationships in prison, not Erik? It's truly mind boggling.

If you put a 20-something man with a high sex drive into prison, he will find someone to fuck and cuddle. Lyle probably had a higher sex drive than Erik.

Also, these 2 were so young when they went into prison, they never had girlfriends or boyfriends. A 20-something would want to experience emotional closeness, as well.

R75 Good point. There's proof that they're both bisexual, with the book about Erik writing poems to boys and girls that he liked and the article about Lyle having a prison lover. I wouldn't be surprised if they fucked each other either, and the rumors were right.

There were no “rumors” about them fucking each other. Ryan Murphy completely made that up.

R76, IMO, Lyle having a prison lover doesn't necessarily mean he is gay or even bisexual. I think that people "make do" with their situations, especially young & horny men.

Erik, IMO, seems gay, not even bisexual. His wife is probably a very kind woman who offers him tons of emotional support and puts money in his commissary account.

R77 Wrong. There were rumors. It wasn't just something Ryan Murphy made up.

R78 True. Lyle never seemed gay or even bi to me, he never pinged. Erik did though. My gaydar is hardly ever wrong. The book apparently did say that he was into boys and girls as a teenager and he denied being gay when on the stands, so unless he lied I think he's most likely bisexual. On the other hand you have people saying Lyle is the one who is living openly as a bi man in prison. Who knows what's true. Will be interesting to see what happens if/when they finally do get out.

What episode had the frontal nude scene of Eric?

I'm on the episode where Lyle admits he poured cinnamon powder down his throat to make the semen taste better.

Does this show get less sordid??

^ The episode where Erik and Lyle visit an orphanage at Christmas time and sing Jingle Bells during the talent show, Rose.

And why would cinnamon powder make cum taste better?!

R70 All jokes aside, I really think that wig ripping debacle is what sealed her fate. A narcissist like Lyle being humiliated like that would make him seethe.

Carol at R82. I know you probably won't let the kids watch it, but the sordidness has a reason. Before I decided to watch this, I've been keeping up with the threads. A lot of them mentioned incest, prison sex, showers, etc and I was just rolling my eyes, because of course Murphy would be over the top on this with all kinds of tawdry scenes. But, the scenes aren't gratuitous, at least I didn't think so, and no one was more surprised than me about that. Because it's being told from all these different viewpoints, it obviously is going to look different for each one. It was, in fact, understated for a Ryan Murphy show. I hope it gets an award.

Erik has found God? No wonder he denies being gay/bi.

Erik is gayer than a mustache full of cum.

[quote]Erik has found God?

Probably found him beneath his mother's dead body.

Erik's fucking wife is a dumb bitch too. The fact she's been bringing her kid to visit a prison for most of her life is sad. I was thinking her first husband/kid's dad, must be livid. But then I remembered that he committed suicide, so I guess the girl is just doomed. If you're afraid of men but want a husband, get one who is imprisoned for life. If you don't want to engage in icky prison phone/letter sex, get one that's gay.

According to Rosie, Lyle gets conjugal visits with his wife. I wonder if Erik gets the same with his wife?

Do prisons have a room with a bed where inmates have sex? I feel sorry for the person who has to clean up when they're finished.

Yes they have rooms. I actually know the guy who cleans after a conjugal with Erik and his wife. He says they’re his favorites because the room is always spotless.

Bullshit, R92.

R93 You missed the joke.

Point me to the joke, R94.

It was a joke, Rose.

R91 They actually have a little trailer. I watch a lot of those prison wife shows. There's a trailer with a kitchen, bedroom, bath, living room. The women get to bring groceries so they can cook for their man. They bring lingerie and whatever else, lube. The guards shake them down really well and then take them over to the trailer where their man awaits them. I think they have 48 hours or so. Your tax dollars at work. Fucking paying some dumb bitch to play house with her psycho boyfriend who is doubtlessly writing to 30 other chicks.

R92 Ha! they play cards all weekend.

I remember that a family member of a high-profile murder victim helped to put an end to conjugal visits. I thought it was Sharon Tate's family, but California has never outlawed conjugal visits.

I think they're called "prison hags." These severely damaged women who fall in love with prisoners. It's so fucked up.

Surely he has male lovers in prison.

HE'S TAKEN A LOVER!!!

Rosie should have been their defense lawyer. She does a far better job of defending them here than Leslie Abramson ever did. Rosie said that she told Barbara Walters that she was communicating with Lyle, and Walters warned her that he was manipulative and to stay away from him.

^ Barbara had more sense than Rosie

Rosie needs more friends IRL if she's reaching out to an imprisoned (life, no parole), claiming to be close friends.

Rosie got bamboozled.

NAC's body is insane.

That bulge in the speedo in episode 2 had to be cgi.

Those pecs!

Everyone gets the joke except for poor r92/r95, bless her little heart.

[quote] I think they're called "prison hags." These severely damaged women who fall in love with prisoners. It's so fucked up.

That's a cruel name to call Rosie.

Accurate, but cruel.

Speaking of getting bamboozled by a prisoner:

New Netflix series: Jailbreak: Love on the Run.

Story of 6'9" prisoner Casey White and prison guard Vicky White (no relation).

We had a couple of threads on this when it happened. Vicky quit her job right before she was about to get a pension, sold her house, and went on the run with Casey. Vicky ended up dying by suicide. Casey is back in prison, where he belongs.

In some photos, Casey White looks like Jon Hamm, in more recent photos, he looks awful.

My kitchen sink clogged today, but a friend came over an snaked out the drains for me. I bought him some great Texas BBQ for saving me a call to the plumber. Win win.

R103 Could it be that Lyle is closer to the person we saw on screen than they (Erik and Lyle) would like to admit?

I know Erik also denied being gay in that interview with Barbara Walters, which is interesting.

I wonder if Chloe enjoyed to-ast while on set?

[QUOTE] Speaking of getting bamboozled by a prisoner: New Netflix series: Jailbreak: Love on the Run.

Watched that right after Monsters. It was decent but not great.

The real Erik was kinda cute.

Both brothers were hot and you can tell they could throw a mean fuck. Cubans are known for big pinga’s.

The actors are also sexy as hell.

The brothers must be very charismatic in real life, because they have enchanted Rosie, Cooper and Kim Kardashian. I fear that none of us would be safe from their charms if we met them.

[quote] I fear that none of us would be safe from their charms if we met them.

DLers would have no chance, if meeting Erik. DLers would be withdrawing money from their accounts and putting money into his commissary.

I can think of better places to put it.

Erik was hot not Lyle

r116, it looks like he's smiling as he contemplates destroying Superman and bringing the entire city of Metropolis to its knees.

Can't wait for this fucking moron to have his ass handed to him next month! (recent polling shows his opponent Nathan Hochman up by 24 points)

What evidence did the defense present regarding the prolonged sexual abuse? The brothers' testimony, some family statements, anything else? Did they ever provide physical proof? Journal entries? Medical files from their childhood? Was it just the brothers' words?

New hearing is set. Great news! Hope they are free soon.

I'm still curious as to what kind of defense they're going to mount to justify murdering their mother.

Before someone makes yet another hysterical and sentimental insistence that "she must have known what was going on," and that "it is a mother's sacred duty to protect her children from being sexually abused by her husband" : there is nothing in the law that says that that's in any way, shape, or form a justifiable reason for pre-meditated murder. They're not going to get off unless they can prove she was an actual physical danger to them somehow. Saying she was buying a gun the week before is also not going to cut it--tons of women in california are always buying guns.

Watch them get out and kill again

Remember the King brothers (Alex and Derek), who killed their father when they were like 12 years old (close in age). A 40-year old man also got convicted. The brothers were incarcerated and released when around 19/20 years old. Older guy is still in prison.

Anyway, Alex died this year of a drug overdose. He was 35.

Alex claimed that the 40-year old guy Ricky Chavis molested him, but Chavis was acquitted of that.

Brothers confessed, but later blamed Chavis for killing Dad.

The original jury convicted them but said that they weren't sure what happened. The brothers then entered a plea deal and served a few years, each.

[QUOTE] New hearing is set. Great news! Hope they are free soon.

May they continue to rot in prison for the rest of their lives.

R125 None, there was no evidence. Usually kids that are molested will have bed-wetting and anxiety and other symptoms. They had none. Also, I don't see that they were terrified of either of their parents. Kids who are terrified that their parents will murder them, don't generally do trouble making shit like breaking into houses.

R127 Exactly, there's no reason to kill her, or 14 million reasons to. If everyone was as afraid of Jose as claimed, then it would stand to reason that she was too. But of course they want to play it both ways; she was a useless alcoholic, pill head, blind to what was going on...but also, she was a cunning killer, about to assassinate the boys. She can't be both. That's always been the elephant in the room, why the fuck did you blow off your mom's kneecaps and face?

R129 Oh damn, I didn't know he died. He was a little scary to me, I know Tavis talked him into it, but he is not someone I would have adopted. He was the gay one who lived with foster parents, I think. The other turned out pretty hot and lives alone in the desert, or did. Sad. He must have a conscience, most people who would kill their parent/s would be pretty torn up about it and turn to drugs. Luckily, Lyle and Erik are psychoes and have no such problems.

R131, who is Tavis?

R132 Oh, sorry, I meant Chavis, Ricky Chavis, the guy who molested him.

r131 Sympathizes with molesters, apparently

You don’t deal with molesters by murdering them in cold blood, R134. Not unless you’re in fear for your life. But the only thing these boys were fearful of losing was their spot in daddy’s last will & testament.

Kim Kardashian Calls for Menendez Brothers to Be Freed: ‘They Are Not Monsters’

Well, OK then, Don't forget this cunt's father helped Uncle O.J. get away with double murder.

Kim K is not exactly the best judge of character.

Isn’t Kim a practicing attorney now? Will the boys get her to represent them at the new hearing?

This is interesting.

[Quote]Ryan Murphy says he’d be interested in extending ‘Monsters: The Lyle and Erik Menendez’ story with more episodes: “I think what I would be interested in doing, if [the actors] would agree to do it, is maybe one or two episodes that continue the story”

Does Nicholas Chavez want to come back for more? He probably figures he’s off to be the next great Hollywood actor and doesn’t need this Menendez stuff anymore.

R140 I'm not even sure how it will work. Is he going to age them? Will that be realistic?

Not sure is Chavez is uncut, but Koch definitely is based on the shower scene in prison and another movie he did having to do with drug smuggling. Don't remember the name. Both with full frontal and clearly he has a foreskin. Since he was born in America and isn't Latin or Black, and he was uncut, does this mean that non-Jewish boys are getting to keep their foreskins?

Circumcision is still the norm for white Americans.

Watch this. This guy served time with them. What he says is interesting.

R142 It was a prosthetic both times, hence uncut. He is cut in his actual nudes that were posted here.

r144 TL;DW

R146 Feom the other thread: It's weird that Ryan Murphy's portrayal of Lyle gets so much criticism when this guy who has served actual time with them said they captured his essence. He also said he thought Lyle was being very manipulative towards Erik, that Erik was following him. He also said the brothers did confess to him that they were abused. So there's that.

R147 You don't say, they confessed to a jail house snitch they were abused, AFTER the trial that they were found guilty in? How odd. It's definitely not a ploy to get him to do exactly this. How sad they never told anyone before they slaughtered their parents.

r148 You've missed a lot of information.

No, I haven't. They had a therapist for years who I'm sure they talked about their horrible parents with, since the parents are the ones who sent them there, however the crucial information that "broke" them never came up, until they made it up.

r150 Lots of people were told well before the murders

[QUOTE] Appellate attorney Cliff Gardner says the letter was written by Erik Menendez to his cousin, Andy Cano, in December 1988, about eight months before the crime.

[QUOTE] It's not dated

No date, no USPS postmark. That fucking letter could’ve been written God knows when.

Who knew that a former soap actor in a speedo could potentially change the course of criminal justice?

How convenient that Andy Cano is now dead and can't testify to the veracity of this letter

And strange that, while he testified at the trial, he never mentioned this letter....

R154 Maybe he forgot it. It happens.

[R145] Oh no!! A fake tool?? I guess the real thing wasn't "photogenic" enough?

Have you seen many of them, R156? They usually aren’t.

I didn't realize Erik and Kyle were the world's biggest Milli Vanilli fans.

They’re burnin up the charts again thanks to Monsters.

Andy Cano was cute.

Just finished the series. I really enjoyed it. No matter how their story is told, they are guilty AF, spoiled rotten brats that never wanted for anything. When they got cut off on their allowance, they became thieves. When they were going to lose their inheritance, they became killers.

r161 I don't disagree, but they were also abused

It all boils down to whether you think abuse is a motive for murder or an excuse for it. It might have been part of their motive, but not an excuse to not be punished.

[quote] It all boils down to whether you think abuse is a motive for murder or an excuse for it.

Not really, since Kitty didn't really abuse the boys. Unless you consider pulling someone's wig off at the dinner table grounds for pre-meditated murder...

R164 Don't bother. R161 is really buying their story and will never see them for the disgusting, greedy, killers they are.

[quote] It all boils down to whether you think abuse is a motive for murder or an excuse for it. It might have been part of their motive, but not an excuse to not be punished.

R163, it's not one or the other. The brothers murdered their parents in cold blood and deserved severe punishment for that, regardless of any abuse they suffered. The question is whether they should be serving life without parole. If the abuse claims are true, it would be a mitigating circumstance that should reduce their sentence. They've served more than 30 years already. If the abuse really happened, then they should be released.

If the claims are true ...

No they shouldn't R166. You can't just fucking blow someone away and then spend all their fucking money because they abused you. If you could, then everyone in prison should be released because odds are many of them are also abuse victims. However, walking the streets are a million other abuse victims, because they chose healthier coping mechanisms. Lyle and Erik had shrinks and help at their disposal, but they chose to blow away their parents instead. They should never get out. You don't get to fucking brutally murder someone and think you will ever touch grass again.

I love how the people who want them released talk like they’re a couple of 80 year old men in wheelchairs. They’re still relatively young because they went in young. They’re fully capable of killing again.

Maybe they won’t get together and use shotguns this time. Maybe it will just be one of them killing a spouse or neighbor. They’re not exactly good at conflict resolution. Whoever springs them will have the new victim’s blood on their hands, cause it wouldn’t have happened if they were still locked up.

[quote]Not really, since Kitty didn't really abuse the boys. Unless you consider pulling someone's wig off at the dinner table grounds for pre-meditated murder...

How dim does Eric have to be to not know the brother he practically spent 24 hours with was wearing a wig?

With the good ones, it’s hard to tell.

R167, there is deep disagreement about this point even now, as you can see from the comments in this thread. The jury in the second trial was not permitted to hear whatever evidence exists about the abuse. Had they done so, it's possible the brothers would have received a less severe sentence - or they might not. We'll never know because that claim was suppressed, something that would likely not happen today. That alone is reason enough to at least re-consider the sentences.

Also, while there's no way to know for sure, if the Menendez brothers had been the Menendez sisters, there's a reasonable likelihood they would have been convicted of lesser crimes because girls automatically get more sympathy and more benefit of the doubt when it comes to abuse, even more so in 1990 than today. Everyone knows that, and it isn't fair.

If released, here's my gut feelings:

Lyle: Would somehow end up getting in trouble, again. Not murder, but I think he may end up back in the courts system and then jail or prison. I can see him getting into drugs, thefts, etc. Maybe even assault.

Erik: He's technically married to a woman and seems to have a low sex drive. Yes, I think he's gay. He may just live his life quietly as a closeted gay man married to a woman. I think he would be able to stay out of trouble, with the law, at least.

R172 “ seems to have a low sex drive”so

How do you know this?

R173, that's just my gut feeling. My theory is that Lyle is not gay, but has a higher sex drive than Erik. Hence, Lyle's prison relationship with a man.

Erik (my theory), on the other hand, is content with his marriage to a woman. Yes, I think Erik is gay, not bisexual or straight.

My speculations ...

R174 why do you think Erik has a low sex drive?

R171, if they had been the Menendez sisters they probably wouldn't have a bunch of delusional TikTok fangirls slobbering over them

r176 and?

^ The only reason TikTok fangirls (and some gay men) believe their bullshit is because they were good-looking guys

Bigger cock- Erik or Lyle?

I say Erik.

R171 Yes, the jurors didn't hear the evidence because that Cano guy, despite testifiying, forgot to mention it. That's how compelling it was, it totally slipped his mind.

I don't believe a girl would have just been acquitted, especially if she was spending money like a drunken sailor like those two. Stacy Lannert killed her molesting father and she still served 18 years. Unlike them, however, she actually speaks about it and helps others. It's not just an afterthought. She alos reported the abuse to several people.

Oh I forgot, Lannert was also accused of kiling for money, and it wasn't millions. So, no, I don't think women would get off easier. Chauvinist.

Latoya Jackson got molested by her own father and her mother knew about it. She didn't blow them away.

Yeah if these assholes got released they'd be doing anything for money. They'd make the talk show rounds and hang with their buddy Rosie O'. Maybe hit New Zealand for some LOTR filming action like the west memphis creeps. They'd probably start some kind of foundation with the goal of getting rich but the facade of being some kind of molestation support groups. And Erik's wife would be terror struck that she might have to fuck him, or maybe not, she knows he's gay. They could have separate rooms and he could go on grind'r each night.

[Quote]Latoya Jackson got molested by her own father and her mother knew about it. She didn't blow them away.

Latoya never blew nobody away. She's the untalented one.

Kim's starting to get a Gypsy Hag Face.

r183 You seem quite invested in this

New Menendez documentary just dropped on Netflix.

I wish there would be some sort of crossover episode between this show and the Betty Broderick story. I’d love to see Meredith Baxter Birney Lesbian Taylor Burton Clinton play an 80 year old Betty, who confuses Lyle for Dan and Erik for Linda…..

r188 and then Erik sleeps with that hot youngest son of Betty's

R187 Meh, it was ok. Erik Tells All a few years ago was better.

I'd let them double penetrate me.

They’re never getting out.

R186 I seem invested in this? No, no, my friend. I don't give a shit, I'm not the one caping for them claiming they were abused, poor, souls. I'm merely pointing out the obvious, these fucks never mentioned abuse before and had they gotten away with their dastardly deed, they never would have mentioned it then, either. It's easy to see who these fucking idiotic, one sided, docs like "Making a murderer" or the stupid Adnan shit. All of these people are guilty. All these docs are made by white, liberal, women who want to be lauded for doing such a service. I notice they don't fucking help any black guys, though. Maybe they should find someone who is actually innocent and focus on them.

R193, you need to see the docu that became available today on Netflix

Is it a black guy being helped? Finally? Good. Do you want to expand on that? Don't make me guess.

Or is it a white chick who gave her kid up for adoption and then became distraught the kid ended up dying in a fire or whatever that daughter of the fire shit is. I guess, sorry about your luck, you should have kept your kid or gotten an abortion.

r192 Definitely have a shot at it

Monsters took the air out of the documentary. It feels rushed. No multi-part treatment, they’re just squeezing everything into a two hour film.

One of the weakest documentaries I’ve seen on Netflix. I expect that kind of stuff from other services but I always thought Netflix docs were a cut above the rest.

Dream on R197.

They’re never getting out.

R199 You do? Why? They make hour stories into 5 part docs and are always incredibly biased.

r200 I don't dream about it, nor even really think they should - but they definitely have a chance of getting out.

They both still look very sexy.

No they don’t R202.

Well, I think we can all agree. Either they have a chance of getting out or they don't.

r204 Definitely do

r205 Best post in the thread! :)

Erik was traumatized by the court microphone because of the shape of it. This is a sign of trauma. He's uncomfortable having the microphone in front of his mouth.

Diva Erik! That was his own attorney questioning him (Leslie) and he needs a break!

R209 Did you read that on web sleuths? Or eyes for lies? Let's analyze his body language! And free Adnan!

Erik is an artist. Of course he's gay.

All y’all are gonna need a support group when it’s confirmed those fuckers are never getting out.

Most of us don’t give a damn about the actual Menendez brothers. We’re here because of the hot actors who portrayed them.

LOVED that sassy prosecuting attorney's snarky demeanor (in the documentary). Girlfriend was giving me serious Amy Poehler vibes!

Another observation from the documentary: Lyle can't spell. How the hell did he get into Princeton?

r213 Does anyone truly care? They 100% certainly have a shot at getting out, but doesn't really impact any of us here, does it?

r216 " How the hell did he get into Princeton? "

You clearly weren't paying attention throughout the documentary.

You're certainly acting like it does R217.

[quote] Another observation from the documentary: Lyle can't spell. How the hell did he get into Princeton?

The same way Trump got into Penn.

$$$$$$$

I didn’t notice the spelling. What was misspelled?

Both were hotter than I thought, then and now. Big dick energy. Erik is likely a 4 or 5 on the Kinsey scale.

r219 Not in the least - just saying there's certainly a shot

R221 In his letter to Erik, Lyle wrote "please detroy" (instead of "please destroy") and "our families secrets" (instead of "our family's secrets").

Oh, dear.

I can believe Lyle is dumb.

R216 is one of them most naive comments on DL in a while.

*the

r223 Oh helllll no. Those errors alone deserve extended prison time.

*Those errors alone means HE deserves extended prison time.

(clearly, I have no room to talk this morning)

R224 He probably is. Erik is dyslexic, so he has an excuse. What is Lyle's? Is he dyslexic too?

R229 Probably, or he just omitted several letters by accident?

Why is Erik talking so much about his wife? I thought he was gay?

The dad seemed very invested in Lyle's masculinity. They could've saved some bullets and just had Lyle come out as a huge Liza fan. Ol Jose would've dropped dead on the spot.

^ Both Jose and Kitty were afraid that Erik was gay. Kitty pressured him to get a girlfriend

Erik Menendez having a wife is the weirdest thing.

r231 Yes, you've said that multiple times - and in the other thread.

.....

I'm bad, I want to be the cream center to the incestual Menendez, sandwich cookie. Not the real life freaks, the sexy, tv freaks.

Something about Lyle in “Monsters” reminds me of the bully in “Donnie Darko.”

They're never getting out.

[quote] Something about Lyle in “Monsters” reminds me of the bully in “Donnie Darko.”

And something about Kitty Menendez reminds me of Charita Cho!

They definitely have a shot at getting out. I hope not, but they have a shot at it for sure.

Nope R241.

Definitely a chance, sadly - r242

Nope R243.

Definitely a shot r244, no doubt about it.

I don’t want them out but R245 is right. There’s definitely a chance that it happens.

Nope.

We heard you the first 8 times, weirdo.

Nope. Never getting out.

Who knows - maybe one day they'll get out - unlikely, but a possibility.

[quote]Erik is an artist. Of course he's gay.

I wasn't sure what I was expecting to see at R212 but he actually did a good job for someone with no formal training.

Then again he's been in there for 35 years so at this point he would be good enough to pull that off.

I made it up to the episode including their first trial and stopped watching. I didn't dislike it, but I just lost interest.

If you liked it, why would you lose interest, R252?

r241 - R250 reminds me of Vanessa and Nola on GL wearing identical dresses on GL.

No, you take off your dress!

As an Angeleno, there are more important things on which the D.A.'s office should spend their time. JMO.

None of those things involve a Netflix international hit show.

Milli Vanilli is hotter than ever thanks to Monsters

Reply 241, you say shot, a lot. You do know they shot their parents? If so, you are quite funny.

"Blame It(the shootings) On The Rain"

Erik Menendez and Lyle Menendez are reflecting on their harrowing testimonies.

In Netflix's new documentary Menendez Brothers, the siblings shared rare insight into the 1989 murders of their parents José Menendez and Mary Louise "Kitty" Menendez, as well as the trials that followed. It was during their first trial that began in 1993—the brothers were ultimately convicted in 1996—Lyle and Erik detailed being sexually abused by their father, which they said ultimately led to the murders.

While on the stand at the trial, Lyle admitted that the abuse—he recounted José had sexual contact with him and also raped him between the ages of 6 and 8—let to his own molestation of his younger brother when they were adolescents.

"Yes," a tearful Lyle replied to his lawyer Jill Lansing asking if he "did something" to Erik in video from the trial. "I took him out to the woods, and I played with Erik…in the same way. And I'm sorry. I'm sorry."

And the moment was especially poignant for Erik, now 53, as he looked back on his brother's apology all these years later. "I remember when he apologized to me on the stand for molesting me," Erik explained in the documentary. "That was a devastating moment for me."

He added, "He had never said he was sorry to me before."

During his testimony, Lyle, now 56, also shared that he had told his mother Kitty about their father's abuse, but that she hadn't expressed concern for the issues.

"She told me to stop it and that I was exaggerating," Lyle said during the trial. "And that my dad has to punish me when I do things wrong. And she…she told me that he loved me."

But despite that, Erik in particular wanted to set the record straight about how much he loved his mother and how guilty he still feels over her loss.

"I miss my mother tremendously," he said in the documentary. "I wish that I could go back and talk to her and give her a hug and tell her I love her and I wanted her to love me and be happy with me and be happy that I was her son and feel that joy and that connection. And I just want that."

The brothers also discussed the difficulty in laying out so much of their life during the trial, with Lyle saying that he "deeply did not want to talk about anything that happened in our past."

But as defense experts Dr. Ann Burgess noted in the documentary, after meeting with the boys—Lyle and Erik were 21 and 18 respectively at the time—shortly after the murders, "I had said there has to be something going on in the family for this to have happened."

"That is not something that they need money, or any other motive, or revenge, or all of the other motives that we could think of," she continued. "I said, ‘Something is very wrong in the family.'"

At least I never diddled Tina. Of course, she would later become such a whore at Chadwick that I probably would have had to wait in line…….

Top LA prosecutor backs Menendez brothers being released on parole

Looks like these murderous fuckheads are getting out afterall.

Come again, R249?

Fucking California. We’re lucky they did as much time as they have in that state. Anywhere else, they would’ve been executed by now.

watch them get out and kill again...then everyone who championed their release will cry about how they were led astray

Where's that autistic guy (r249) who said that they were never getting out?

If their wives have life insurance...they could kill again. I wonder how the gay Erik will enjoy living with that weird creep who married him. She may expect him to put out.

[quote] watch them get out and kill again...then everyone who championed their release will cry about how they were led astray

Ryan Murphy had better watch his back!

Funny, R269. But in the end, Murphy is the one who will have gotten them released.

[quote]Ryan Murphy had better watch his back!

They already had a possible resentencing in the works prior to the series but its release gave it a massive push. They would be thanking him and he knows it.

If money was their motive all those years ago, they won't kill again. They'll be millionaires not long after release doing interviews and appearances.

They’re cold blooded murderers. Why would anyone want to give them money? They’ll be as successful doing interviews and appearances as OJ Simpson, who would’ve been flat broke if not for his NFL pension.

The mother was a miscast. They showed the photos of her at the end and I gasped. Creative licensing was certainly taken on this project.

Then Susan Smith should get out too. She only killed kids, none of the kids had multi million dollar jobs and weren't alive long enough to be missed.

I'm late to the party but only because I had a lot of work to do. I'm now on episode 5 and it seems like the entire bottle episode of Erik talking to Leslie about the abuse in a single long continuous take was purposely rehearsed and cleverly calculated for Emmy nominations.

Ryan Murphy may have done the brothers a favor by indirectly giving their case a second look but he also did them a major disservice by depicting them in an incestuous manner based on either his own twisted, fantasies, heresay or yellow journalism.

Kim Kardashian larping as a wannabe lawyer and attaching her name to their case through the innocence Project (when she is really only doing it for herself and no-one else) most likely isn't helping either.

I kind of agree that episode 5 is the weakest, R276. It feels like an obvious bone to the critics.

Erik is portrayed very consistently as a victim throughout the series. It’s much more interesting when Lyle surprises the legal team by delivering a sympathetic testimony, then blows it by bragging to his “biographer” about how the jury ate it up.

Episode 5 got the Menendez brothers released from prison.

Please, Cooper @R278, go back to texting Kim K. Your performance did not single-handedly change the course of justice.

So I finally finished watching this and, like Murphy’s other shows based on real events, enjoyed it a lot. Yes, of course they are heavily fictionalized and yes he does tend to push his POV. So what? It’s entertainment. I enjoy it.

I always thought the brothers were lying, I mean to me it was very clear. I was laughing when angry old lady juror got real — right before her heart exploded! I agree with everything she said.

But the show itself really does drive home how opaque this all was to everyone watching from the sidelines. All we had were our opinions. That’s still true. The only people who really knew for sure were Jose and Kitty, who can’t come to the phone right now because they were blown to pieces by their sons, and Lyle and Erik, the trigger men who have, shall we say, a transactional relationship with the truth.

Well— now that I know how hot they are— I say…

FREE LOS MENENDEZ!!!!