Monsters: The Lyle and Erik Menendez Story Part II

Part I:

They were totally fucking

R2 I think so too. I think they had an incestuous relationship. There were rumors, and usually rumors have some root in the truth.

Where there’s still smoking dicks …

Exactly. Where there's smoke there's fire.

Never saw this little clip. Horrid.

I watched the whole series and after episode 4 it gets so dark and depressing that I found it very hard to watch. All four Menendezes are/were such terrible people I could not feel sorry for any of them, even though their lives were pretty hellish. I think this is the biggest problem with the series--there's no one either to root for (not even a charismatic anti-hero figure like a Walter White or a Tony Soprano). So after the first two episodes, which are very attention getting (the 1st with the recounting of the murders, and then the 2nd with the boys spending like crazy afterwards to enjoy their fortune like pigs in shit, and wearing barely anything) there's really nowhere for the series to go after that.

I don't think this is going to get much awards attention, although episode 5 may get a nomination for writing, and Cooper Koch may get a nomination for that episode (but I doubt he will win--any halfway decent actor might get a nomination for that kind of episode because it's so unusual and allows someone so much time to shine). This isn't really being talked up outside of Datalounge, and here it really only is because of the actors' hot bodies and the gay sex angle. Nicholas Chavez is absolutely beautiful but he's only adequate in the part, and it doesn't allow him that much to do.

I did think Bardem and Sevigny were quite good, but the screenplays don't allow for Kitty and Jose to be very humanized or developed.

We all know it was Danny and Jose Jr.

I don't watch tv shows or movies depending on whether there's a character I can "root for." It's all about the story. I thought this series was very good. Yes, they were all horrible people. It made for compelling watching. Javier Bardem was excellent, nobody can play a stone cold bastard like he does.

It's worth watching just to see Koch and Chavez stripped down. Oh yeah, and Javier Bardem.

R7 I agree that it felt very disjointed. I personally think the first half of the season was the strongest. Episodes 1 to 3 are my favorites. 4 was decent and 5 was great due to Cooper Koch and his brilliant acting. Episodes 6-9 got a bit boring and repetetive imo. I didn't feel like there was a need for Dunne either. What I don't agree with though is why you would need to root for Kitty or Jose. Why humanize them? Why not show them for the monsters they allegedly were?

You misunderstand me--I did not think they necessarily needed to be humanized for the sake of telling the story.

But I think their characters' flatness in the screenplays will make it unlikely either actor will be nominated for awards for these performances.

It was said in the other thread, but kind of far down, that this is told from 10 view points, so that's why it seemed disjointed. I pesonally like it like that, and I enjoyed Dominic's version. I was over Dunne for a while but this made me remember why he was invested in murder and justice.

I'm so confused over Erik's sexuality. He pings like crazy and he is into modeling and acting (or at least he was back then). And then there's this... he is a fan of reality shows and even Supernatural. Yet Lyle is the one who has had gay relationships in prison, not Erik? It's truly mind boggling.

r14 Doesn't seem the least bit gay in that

R11, why "humanize" their lying, murdering sons? Because you believe their lies? Same guys who lied and lied at every turn and said the mob killed their parents so they could go on a shopping spree?

R14, no, Erik had gay relationships in prison, too

I still can't tell them apart.

r18 I have trouble, also - but Erik had wavier (real) hair

In real life, Lyle would hide his hairline under his bangs to hide that he was wearing a wig.

Erik usually brushed his hair back so you could see his hairline.

I'm glad it's not just my sister. I was getting seriously annoyed she kept asking me who each one was. I told her, "Eriks has the curly hair, Jfc!" And blue eyes.

R17 How do you know?

How could Murphy have passed up the opportunity to have Chavez in a prison fuck scene?

I knew Vicki Lawrence was in it, but MAGA, bitch juror was nearly stroking out before I realized it was her. Too, bad her part was so short. She really did sound off like Thelma Harper.

WTF about her being "MAGA?" This took place thirty years ago.

I don’t think they are sociopaths. I think there was abuse. I don’t think they killed for money. I think they stayed for money. I do think the brothers were sexual with each other. I think both are likely bi.

I enjoyed the series for what it was. It was very entertaining. I do wish more of these types of series tried to get as much accurate as possible without making stuff up.

You don't think they're sociopaths?! Listen to the Dr. Oziel tapes.

R27 Very damaged, but not sociopaths.

If/when they come out I hope they're able to talk about everything. I doubt they'll talk about their sexuality though, since they are both married to women I highly doubt they will admit to being bi, which is a shame. Some fans claim Lyle is living life as an openly bi man in prison, but I have no idea if that is true or not. Either way he's married to a woman, so....

Didn't recognize Vicki Lawrence at first. She was good, though!

This is the Dominick Dunne's Power, Privilege, and Justice episode about the brothers

Thank you for the link r30. I've never seen that episode.

Chavez Is probably uncut.

Can you imagine how much "fan" mail they're getting now? I think it was the Barbara Walters interview from mid 90s that said something like they still got 1000s of letters back then. What a strange world.

I do agree with r28. I don't think they're sociopaths. I think they snapped for a variety of reasons.

They, and the actors, are hot. The brothers are still sexy. They, like a lot of inmates, are absolutely hooking up with males. Married to women in case they ever get out.

Erik is definitely bisexual. He had a relationship with his friend when he was a teen and then there's this, it's a quote from a book about the Menendez brothers. Just read it. He wrote poems to boys and girls he liked. I have no idea why he lied on the stand? Well, I guess he didn't lie when they asked if he's gay because he's not, he's bi. And it is possible he's had relationships in prison, we don't know everything. Heck, maybe he's a straight leaning bi, they exist.

Happy I got proof my gaydar is not totally faulty. Lyle and Erik are most likely both bi.

R34 Exactly. It's funny that LSA call them both ugly. They said they would be getting a lighter sentence if they were hotter. I was like huh?! They were attractive then and they're attractive now, even 30 years later. Erik is very popular on tiktok among gen Z.

Someone on Part 1 mentioned the book "The Menendez Murders" by Robert Rand. I always thought the boys made up the abuse allegations, until I read this book which, in graphic detail, depicts Jose drugging and raping a member of Menudo at the family home in Princeton. "Menendez & Menudo: Boys Betrayed" is on Peacock but you can find excerpts and trailers on Youtube.

That doesn’t mean he raped his own children, R38.

Robert Rand is a joke who is totally biased and the Menudo guy is full of it, too

Read Blood Brothers by Ron Soble and John Johnson instead

R38 Literally watched this doc yesterday. It was well made. I believe he abused that Menudo member. I also believe he abused his own sons. The showers with them and their dad, people not being allowed to walk down the hall when he was in their bedrooms etc. It all adds up.

Vickie Lawrence's scene reminded me of Julia Sugarbaker's jury duty screed.

[QUOTE] Literally watched this doc yesterday. It was well made. I believe he abused that Menudo member. I also believe he abused his own sons. The showers with them and their dad, people not being allowed to walk down the hall when he was in their bedrooms etc. It all adds up.

Why didn’t the boys tell their therapist? They were seeing him for years and never mentioned it?

R41 You “literally watched it, huh?

R43 Because they were afraid, probably. Oziel was close with their dad. That's what I've read anyway. And lets play devil's advocate here. Lets say they were never abused by their parents. Lets say they killed their parents for greed, because they wanted the inheritance, it's been more than 30 years. Are they a danger to society if they are let out? I don't believe they are.

[quote] Are they a danger to society if they are let out? I don't believe they are.

R45 You're entitled to believe that, but I'm perfectly fine with them both spending the rest of their lives behind prison walls without the possibility of parole. I'm inclined to believe there was abuse in that house -- verbal, emotional, physical/hitting, and [ital]perhaps[/ital] sexual. There were the two relatives, an aunt and cousin (?), who testified that the brothers had confided in them about sexual abuse years before the murders. However, the evidence much more likely points to money as being their motive. There was evidence that Jose had told them they were being disinherited, due to the fallout over the Calabasas burglaries and Lyle's Princeton plagiarism suspension. So, they needed to act before Jose and Kitty could execute new wills. That's why both parents needed to go -- if they just killed Jose, Kitty would be the surviving spouse for the marital estate. After the murders, there was evidence the brothers tried to have the parents' computer wiped, as they feared it might have drafts of new wills. Same with the safe weirdness, that it might contain updated wills. And let's not forget the brothers' prolific spending, which began literally days after the murders.

All that said, even if abuse [ital]was[/ital] the motive, the remedy for that is not slaughtering your alleged abusers with multiple shotgun blasts throughout their bodies as they snooze on the sofa.

So we’re supposed to feel sorry for two young gay men who get fucked by Javier Bardem?

I don’t get it.

Thank you R46. I couldn't have put it better. If their dad had been produce manager at Von's, I don't think they would have been as compelled to kill him, and definitely not Kitty. The bottom line is they were greedy fucks who killed for money and I wouldn't feel safe as Mrs. Menendez if they got out and I had a life insurance policy. Their star-fucker-iness is also not unnoticed. They hate the show but want to meet the actors, they're besties with Rosie O (they're liars and will get cancer, though) and I sure don't hear about all the abuse victims they counsel in the pen. They can end their lives there. I know Erik's idiot wife spends most of her time running errands for him, sending him canteen stuff, doing whatever he wants. They live comfortably, which is more than most prisoners, so they can stay there.

Maybe Tori Spelling should have gunned down Aaron and Candy...

[QUOTE] Lets say they killed their parents for greed, because they wanted the inheritance, it's been more than 30 years. Are they a danger to society if they are let out?

🤣🤣🤣 Yes, they are a danger to society. What the fuck. If you can shotgun your parents to death in cold blood, including coming back for kill shots when you saw they were still breathing, then you can murder anybody over anything. They should’ve been executed! Their sycophants should be grateful they’re still alive.

[quote]Chavez Is probably uncut.

He's American so he's probably cut.

r44 is the troll who gets triggered whenever somebody uses the word "literally." It's 2024 babe, it's a part of modern speech. Get the fuck over it.

I always fantasized about gunning down my horrid, abusive stepfather. I didn't have the guts.

Yes, and if I did everything I’ve ever fantasized about, the state surely would’ve executed me by now.

I found this series really boring after maybe Episode 2. It was a struggle to get through it.

R55 oh ok

I do think they were abused but at the same time they were two grown men who could've moved out of the house and lived their own lives independent of their parents.

As horrible as it is, untold numbers of people experienced horrific abuse growing up but they got away and managed to survive on their own.

They were abused, and also didn’t want to be disinherited.

I really like it and I'm not done. I love Murphy and true crime, but I wasn't sure about this. I saw the one with my girl Courtney Love as their mom, and it was not good. I know how Murphy always starts strong and then devolves halfway through, but I actually watched 7 eps in one sitting. I love that they're showing it from so many points of view, and I didn't think I would love the Dunne parts, but I love those too. Did that bitch Abramson really make that crack about his daughter's murder giving him a career or something? The scene where he tells Leslie that either the abuse is real or that she coached a true psychopath into his testimony and that he didn't know which was scarier, was perfect.

R59 gets it. I felt the same way about everything you mentioned.

The only thing you left out was all the Nicholas Chavez eye candy.

Their stupid, histrionic yet fake, 911 call is so hilarious. If I were in prison with them, I would clown them about it every time I saw them.

A little off topic, I watched the E True Hollywood story about Poltergeist last month. I didn't realize that Dominique Dunne had a friend over that she was running lines with when she was killed. This guy actually heard them outside fighting and Sweeney killing her and didn't immediately call the police. It's just mindboggling to me that he just froze and didn't do something. I'm not saying he should have gone and fought the guy, but he should have done something sooner. I would probably not show my face and talk about it if I were him.

That guy was the actor David Packer, they were both filming the tv miniseries "V" (one of the greatest of all time, about an alien invasion) and he did nothing to help her.

Yes R63! That's who it was, thanks. Yeah I just couldn't believe he just kind of sat there while this was all going on. Like Dunne said, it took five minutes for him to strangle her, and before that they were loudly fighting. Maybe he was just frozen.

And was Kitty a blowsy, drunken, incompetent, pill head or a master assassin, coldly plotting to murder her own sons? It can't be fucking both, boys. That's always been the problem, why Kitty too? And that's how you know it's all bullshit. It's like Jodi Arias claiming she feared Travis, yet driving 9 hours to his house. The boat killing scenario was fucking preposterous. They couldn't get those assholes to do anything, but they were able to get them out on a boat? Come on!

^ Kitty told her shrink that she thought her sons were sociopaths and that she was scared of them.

Stop dumping on David Packer.

If it’s true Kitty knew about the abuse, how the fuck could she not, they had every right to hate/fear her. They endured abuse in order to be rich. Their parents threatened that which sent them over the edge.

They weren't scared of her, she was scared of them.

R67 Says who? A made up scene from the series? She SHOULD’VE been scared of them if she knew they were being raped and did nothing about it. They had a lot of friends/teachers/coaches saying they were not sociopaths.

R67, no, it's not from the series. Read the book Blood Brothers. Her shrink said this.

Kitty should have been scared. If you're going to rip off someone's toupee, then be prepared to pay the price.

r65 / r67 She also told her shrink that she was terrified of José, and that she always knew "something was off" in how he treated the boys even from a very early age.

Sounds like Murdagh family. They’re all awful. No sympathetic characters.

I could never keep the brothers straight. I thought Lyle was the lantern jawed short haired one and Eric the dark wig one. Then it was opposite. Now I’m back to which is which.

Ryan Murphy is being cunty again with the "poor, pitiful us".

[quote] I'm so confused over Erik's sexuality. He pings like crazy and he is into modeling and acting (or at least he was back then). And then there's this... he is a fan of reality shows and even Supernatural. Yet Lyle is the one who has had gay relationships in prison, not Erik? It's truly mind boggling.

If you put a 20-something man with a high sex drive into prison, he will find someone to fuck and cuddle. Lyle probably had a higher sex drive than Erik.

Also, these 2 were so young when they went into prison, they never had girlfriends or boyfriends. A 20-something would want to experience emotional closeness, as well.

R75 Good point. There's proof that they're both bisexual, with the book about Erik writing poems to boys and girls that he liked and the article about Lyle having a prison lover. I wouldn't be surprised if they fucked each other either, and the rumors were right.

There were no “rumors” about them fucking each other. Ryan Murphy completely made that up.

R76, IMO, Lyle having a prison lover doesn't necessarily mean he is gay or even bisexual. I think that people "make do" with their situations, especially young & horny men.

Erik, IMO, seems gay, not even bisexual. His wife is probably a very kind woman who offers him tons of emotional support and puts money in his commissary account.

R77 Wrong. There were rumors. It wasn't just something Ryan Murphy made up.

R78 True. Lyle never seemed gay or even bi to me, he never pinged. Erik did though. My gaydar is hardly ever wrong. The book apparently did say that he was into boys and girls as a teenager and he denied being gay when on the stands, so unless he lied I think he's most likely bisexual. On the other hand you have people saying Lyle is the one who is living openly as a bi man in prison. Who knows what's true. Will be interesting to see what happens if/when they finally do get out.

What episode had the frontal nude scene of Eric?

I'm on the episode where Lyle admits he poured cinnamon powder down his throat to make the semen taste better.

Does this show get less sordid??

^ The episode where Erik and Lyle visit an orphanage at Christmas time and sing Jingle Bells during the talent show, Rose.

And why would cinnamon powder make cum taste better?!

R70 All jokes aside, I really think that wig ripping debacle is what sealed her fate. A narcissist like Lyle being humiliated like that would make him seethe.

Carol at R82. I know you probably won't let the kids watch it, but the sordidness has a reason. Before I decided to watch this, I've been keeping up with the threads. A lot of them mentioned incest, prison sex, showers, etc and I was just rolling my eyes, because of course Murphy would be over the top on this with all kinds of tawdry scenes. But, the scenes aren't gratuitous, at least I didn't think so, and no one was more surprised than me about that. Because it's being told from all these different viewpoints, it obviously is going to look different for each one. It was, in fact, understated for a Ryan Murphy show. I hope it gets an award.

Erik has found God? No wonder he denies being gay/bi.

Erik is gayer than a mustache full of cum.

[quote]Erik has found God?

Probably found him beneath his mother's dead body.

Erik's fucking wife is a dumb bitch too. The fact she's been bringing her kid to visit a prison for most of her life is sad. I was thinking her first husband/kid's dad, must be livid. But then I remembered that he committed suicide, so I guess the girl is just doomed. If you're afraid of men but want a husband, get one who is imprisoned for life. If you don't want to engage in icky prison phone/letter sex, get one that's gay.

According to Rosie, Lyle gets conjugal visits with his wife. I wonder if Erik gets the same with his wife?

Do prisons have a room with a bed where inmates have sex? I feel sorry for the person who has to clean up when they're finished.

Yes they have rooms. I actually know the guy who cleans after a conjugal with Erik and his wife. He says they’re his favorites because the room is always spotless.

Bullshit, R92.

R93 You missed the joke.

Point me to the joke, R94.

It was a joke, Rose.

R91 They actually have a little trailer. I watch a lot of those prison wife shows. There's a trailer with a kitchen, bedroom, bath, living room. The women get to bring groceries so they can cook for their man. They bring lingerie and whatever else, lube. The guards shake them down really well and then take them over to the trailer where their man awaits them. I think they have 48 hours or so. Your tax dollars at work. Fucking paying some dumb bitch to play house with her psycho boyfriend who is doubtlessly writing to 30 other chicks.

R92 Ha! they play cards all weekend.

I remember that a family member of a high-profile murder victim helped to put an end to conjugal visits. I thought it was Sharon Tate's family, but California has never outlawed conjugal visits.

I think they're called "prison hags." These severely damaged women who fall in love with prisoners. It's so fucked up.

Surely he has male lovers in prison.

HE'S TAKEN A LOVER!!!

Rosie should have been their defense lawyer. She does a far better job of defending them here than Leslie Abramson ever did. Rosie said that she told Barbara Walters that she was communicating with Lyle, and Walters warned her that he was manipulative and to stay away from him.

^ Barbara had more sense than Rosie

Rosie needs more friends IRL if she's reaching out to an imprisoned (life, no parole), claiming to be close friends.

Rosie got bamboozled.

NAC's body is insane.

That bulge in the speedo in episode 2 had to be cgi.

Those pecs!

Everyone gets the joke except for poor r92/r95, bless her little heart.

[quote] I think they're called "prison hags." These severely damaged women who fall in love with prisoners. It's so fucked up.

That's a cruel name to call Rosie.

Accurate, but cruel.

Speaking of getting bamboozled by a prisoner:

New Netflix series: Jailbreak: Love on the Run.

Story of 6'9" prisoner Casey White and prison guard Vicky White (no relation).

We had a couple of threads on this when it happened. Vicky quit her job right before she was about to get a pension, sold her house, and went on the run with Casey. Vicky ended up dying by suicide. Casey is back in prison, where he belongs.

In some photos, Casey White looks like Jon Hamm, in more recent photos, he looks awful.

My kitchen sink clogged today, but a friend came over an snaked out the drains for me. I bought him some great Texas BBQ for saving me a call to the plumber. Win win.

R103 Could it be that Lyle is closer to the person we saw on screen than they (Erik and Lyle) would like to admit?

I know Erik also denied being gay in that interview with Barbara Walters, which is interesting.

I wonder if Chloe enjoyed to-ast while on set?

[QUOTE] Speaking of getting bamboozled by a prisoner: New Netflix series: Jailbreak: Love on the Run.

Watched that right after Monsters. It was decent but not great.

The real Erik was kinda cute.

Both brothers were hot and you can tell they could throw a mean fuck. Cubans are known for big pinga’s.

The actors are also sexy as hell.

The brothers must be very charismatic in real life, because they have enchanted Rosie, Cooper and Kim Kardashian. I fear that none of us would be safe from their charms if we met them.

[quote] I fear that none of us would be safe from their charms if we met them.

DLers would have no chance, if meeting Erik. DLers would be withdrawing money from their accounts and putting money into his commissary.

I can think of better places to put it.

Erik was hot not Lyle

r116, it looks like he's smiling as he contemplates destroying Superman and bringing the entire city of Metropolis to its knees.

Can't wait for this fucking moron to have his ass handed to him next month! (recent polling shows his opponent Nathan Hochman up by 24 points)

What evidence did the defense present regarding the prolonged sexual abuse? The brothers' testimony, some family statements, anything else? Did they ever provide physical proof? Journal entries? Medical files from their childhood? Was it just the brothers' words?

New hearing is set. Great news! Hope they are free soon.

I'm still curious as to what kind of defense they're going to mount to justify murdering their mother.

Before someone makes yet another hysterical and sentimental insistence that "she must have known what was going on," and that "it is a mother's sacred duty to protect her children from being sexually abused by her husband" : there is nothing in the law that says that that's in any way, shape, or form a justifiable reason for pre-meditated murder. They're not going to get off unless they can prove she was an actual physical danger to them somehow. Saying she was buying a gun the week before is also not going to cut it--tons of women in california are always buying guns.

Watch them get out and kill again

Remember the King brothers (Alex and Derek), who killed their father when they were like 12 years old (close in age). A 40-year old man also got convicted. The brothers were incarcerated and released when around 19/20 years old. Older guy is still in prison.

Anyway, Alex died this year of a drug overdose. He was 35.

Alex claimed that the 40-year old guy Ricky Chavis molested him, but Chavis was acquitted of that.

Brothers confessed, but later blamed Chavis for killing Dad.

The original jury convicted them but said that they weren't sure what happened. The brothers then entered a plea deal and served a few years, each.

[QUOTE] New hearing is set. Great news! Hope they are free soon.

May they continue to rot in prison for the rest of their lives.

R125 None, there was no evidence. Usually kids that are molested will have bed-wetting and anxiety and other symptoms. They had none. Also, I don't see that they were terrified of either of their parents. Kids who are terrified that their parents will murder them, don't generally do trouble making shit like breaking into houses.

R127 Exactly, there's no reason to kill her, or 14 million reasons to. If everyone was as afraid of Jose as claimed, then it would stand to reason that she was too. But of course they want to play it both ways; she was a useless alcoholic, pill head, blind to what was going on...but also, she was a cunning killer, about to assassinate the boys. She can't be both. That's always been the elephant in the room, why the fuck did you blow off your mom's kneecaps and face?

R129 Oh damn, I didn't know he died. He was a little scary to me, I know Tavis talked him into it, but he is not someone I would have adopted. He was the gay one who lived with foster parents, I think. The other turned out pretty hot and lives alone in the desert, or did. Sad. He must have a conscience, most people who would kill their parent/s would be pretty torn up about it and turn to drugs. Luckily, Lyle and Erik are psychoes and have no such problems.

R131, who is Tavis?

R132 Oh, sorry, I meant Chavis, Ricky Chavis, the guy who molested him.

r131 Sympathizes with molesters, apparently

You don’t deal with molesters by murdering them in cold blood, R134. Not unless you’re in fear for your life. But the only thing these boys were fearful of losing was their spot in daddy’s last will & testament.

Kim Kardashian Calls for Menendez Brothers to Be Freed: ‘They Are Not Monsters’

Well, OK then, Don't forget this cunt's father helped Uncle O.J. get away with double murder.

Kim K is not exactly the best judge of character.

Isn’t Kim a practicing attorney now? Will the boys get her to represent them at the new hearing?

This is interesting.

[Quote]Ryan Murphy says he’d be interested in extending ‘Monsters: The Lyle and Erik Menendez’ story with more episodes: “I think what I would be interested in doing, if [the actors] would agree to do it, is maybe one or two episodes that continue the story”

Does Nicholas Chavez want to come back for more? He probably figures he’s off to be the next great Hollywood actor and doesn’t need this Menendez stuff anymore.

R140 I'm not even sure how it will work. Is he going to age them? Will that be realistic?