Bobby and Ethel's kids

I’ve been fingering my ass all of my life!

I pick my nose,

...and don't even get me started on the Skakels...

Didn't Ethel's brother rape some girl when he was a teen?

And don't get me started on Chappaquiddick...

oh shit, more than rape, it was murder!!

"According to friends, Moxley began flirting with, and eventually kissed, Thomas Skakel, the older brother of Michael Skakel. Moxley was last seen "falling together behind the fence" with Thomas, near the pool in the Skakel backyard, at around 9:30 p.m.[5] The next day, Moxley's body was found beneath a tree in her family's backyard. Her pants and underwear were pulled down."

R5 I thought he beat the fuck out of her with a golf club?

Skakel family fun! Forgot all about them.

Good grief, what a gnarled mess...

"Skakel, 63, a nephew of Robert F. Kennedy's widow, Ethel Kennedy, was found guilty in 2002 of the 1975 bludgeoning death of Martha Moxley, who lived across the street from the Skakel family in wealthy Greenwich and whose body was found in her family's backyard. Both Skakel and Moxley were 15 at the time of her death.

"...The Connecticut Supreme Court overturned Skakel's conviction in 2018, after he had served more than 11 years in prison, saying his defense lawyer failed to present evidence of an alibi. A state prosecutor announced in 2020 that Skakel would not be put on trial again and the murder charge was dropped...

"...During trial, the state presented Moxley's diary as evidence of the rivalry between the two brothers. The month before her murder, she wrote "Michael was so out of it, he was being a real ass---- … He kept telling me that I was leading Tom on … Michael jumps to conclusions ... I really have to stop going over there."

[quote]"I really have to stop going over there."

That's a gut punch.

Camealot. RFK came a lot.

And so did JFK. But he said it was the only thing that relieved his back pain, so he gets a pass.

The four daughters have mostly stayed out of trouble-Kerry’s DUI being an exception.

Of the seven sons, only Chris and Max stayed out of trouble:

1.) Joe II flipped his Jeep at a high rate of speed, paralyzing his brother David’s girlfriend. This good Catholic also attempted to annul his first 10 year plus long marriage to his first wife (and mother of his children$, until she took to the media to bitch about him.

2.) David-drug addicted from his teen years, arrested and sent to rehab several times, died of a drug overdose.

3.) Michael-his marriage to Frank Gifford’s daughter collapsed when it was discovered that he was fucking their teenage babysitter. During the media storm, he crashed into a tree skiing and died.

4.) Doug-the youngest son, he assaulted a female maternity nurse when she tried to stop him from taking his newborn son outside the hospital, in January, in New York.

And I think we all know about RFK Jr.

Ethel should have become a nun so she could terrorize schoolchildren. Instead she gave birth to a litter of children who have terrorized spouses and domestics for decades.

Did Michael assault the nurse while holding his newborn?

Jackie and Eunice both kept their kids away from the RFK branch of the family.

When Bobby Shriver got into trouble as a teenager in Hyannis Port with Joe/RFK/David, Eunice and Sargent Shriver pulled him away from them.

Ethel is a Skakel and she raised her kids like a Skakel.

Meaning trash.

[quote]Camealot. RFK came a lot.

OH, DEAR

The mom of one of my close friends knew several Kennedy offspring. The rich Italians up in Boston, that were almost as wealthy as the Brahmin hate them.

A longtime family friend (lawyer) here in Louisiana supposedly saw Bobby holding hands and kissing with another man in Washington D.C back in the sixties. This could be suburban legend, it wouldn’t surprise me, but anything possible after all these years.

Ethel picked her nose and ate the boogers.

That explains everything.

R12: "Doug-the youngest son, he assaulted a female maternity nurse when she tried to stop him from taking his newborn son outside the hospital, in January, in New York."

He was probably screaming, "KENNEDYS DON'T GET COLD!"

Ethel will outlive probably half her kids. I hope she beat the shit out of RFK Jr. for all his Trump, brain worms bullshit. She’s 96 years old and still going strong.

Yes. Ethel gave up after Bobby died and was known for screaming at her maids especially racist things. Hickory Hill was known as Horror Hill and Jackie indeed tried to keep her offspring away. There are some good quotes in your run of the mill Kennedy bios.

To Ethel’s credit, she was extremely overwhelmed when Bobby was killed with an army to raise. Teddy tried to help, but had his own problems with Joan’s alcoholism and his own brood. It still doesn’t change her asshole, eccentric ways, but I wouldn’t have wanted to be in her shoes.

Which Kennedy was it that their kid was killed chasing after a ball?

There's a person named Eunice?

Eunice peaked at 107 in the most popular names list in the US in 1913, and Eunice Kennedy was born in 1921 (the fifth of Joe and Rose's 9 children). Oh and the name is making a bit of a comeback, believe it or not.

I think that when you religiously procreate to the extent of rearing about 53 kids, or roughly the guest list length of an Osmond Family Reunion, in all probability you are statistically apt to have at least a couple of vadge fruit who are a bit fcuked up or who engage in some seriously fcuked-up shit.

[quote]A longtime family friend (lawyer) here in Louisiana supposedly saw Bobby holding hands and kissing with another man in Washington D.C back in the sixties. This could be suburban legend,

Did it originate in Alexandria, or in Arlington?

R17 Greg?

R24, it was Kathleen Kennedy Townsend’s daughter and grandson who drowned going after a ball. Kathleen is Bobby and Ethel’s oldest child.

RFK Jr and David (who died of heroin in his teens) were both extremely fucked up by Bobby's death. RFK Jr encouraged his father to run, when he was initially reluctant because of his fear of assassination. Obviously Snr made up his own mind, but if you were a young teen that situation would do more damage than your brainworm.

After Bobby's death Lem Billings "looked out" for them, and took them on holidays that included extremely risky stuff like whitewater rafting on the Amazon (probably where the brainworm originated). He noted that Bobby Jr was into extreme risk-taking, which suggests to me he was feeling self-destructive in the wake of the assassination. Lem's "guardian duties" probably complicated an already volatile mix. Not surprising Jackie didn't want her kids anywhere near THAT.

It's no excuse for what Jr has become, but it's part of the explanation.

[quote] And don't get me started on Chappaquiddick

I had no idea what the reference to Chappaquiddick was referring to in All The President’s Men. I asked my father who eagerly gave me a potted history on all things Kennedy.

You're just too young, Token Aussie. It was front-page news here for days.

Father figure Lem Billings was a fucked up homosexual drug addict Ethel was/is an alcoholic unable to cope.

R32 it just about knocked the moon landing off the front page in Boston. It was YUGE.

From everything I've read, Ethel and Bobby left the maids and Ethel's exotic menagerie to raise the children and were not interested in doing it themselves. No wonder the kids turned out the way they did.

Ethel and Bobby were really terrible, terrible people.

R30 I totally forgot that tragedy in Kathleen Kennedy Townsend’s family! But it happened at the beginning of the pandemic so we were all otherwise occupied.

I understand that they're not even received by any family in Charleston!

If you have think Ethel is a nasty bitch, and her children are pigs; look for a copy of “The Other Mrs.Kennedy” by Jerry Oppenheimer.

Lots of interviews with abused assistants, domestics and shop girls. And Oppenheimer goes out of his way to paint Ethel as incapable of doing anything without being a thundercunt about it.

Shouldn’t be a “have” in my first sentence.

I don’t know about Bobby, by all accounts he loved his kids. After JFKs assassination he had the added burden of feeling responsible for JFKs wife and kids too. People forget, too, he was one of the youngest kids in the family. That’s a lot to have thrust upon you.

R41 Someone born with greatness, others have greatness thrust into them.

Boo hoo, R36. ALL rich people hire others to take care of and raise their children. And they don't turn out to be reckless murders.

[quote]I don’t know about Bobby, by all accounts he loved his kids.

So did Judy Garland. "Loving" you kids doesn't equate parenting your kids. Bobby was away most of the time when they were growing up.

[quote] Ethel and Bobby were really terrible, terrible people.

I believe he would have been a good president. But that nose-picking, extremely homely, First Lady... political cartoonists would have had a field day.

Will someone please explain Ethel's penchant for nose picking? I'm rather new here and Google is unhelpful.

R43, Mama wash terrif, she really wash! She wash just fabuloush! She always made ush hot fudge shundaesh with percoshet jimmiesh on them before we'd go to bed!

[quote] You're just too young, Token Aussie. It was front-page news here for days.

Yeah. The thing is, Spare Aussie, I am certainly not young now. I learned about the culture surrounding the Kennedys from hearing the “where were you when…” conversations among my parents generation, then watching All The Presidents Men and JFK (my dad took the whole family to see this in the city) in my early teens.

And people younger than me still only know vague references to Jackie and Marilyn and Grey Gardens - and then mostly due to their style.

It shows how generational political power has such a short half life.

One of the keys to understanding the wild RFK clan is Ethel. The Skakels made the Kennedy look tame in termsvv c of reckless entitlement.

R45 Kittydyke there's an old Kennedy family photo going around that shows Ethel jamming her left index finger in the direction of her left nostril. If I can easily find it I will post a link.

Ethel Mertz?

[quote] I don’t know about Bobby, by all accounts he loved his kids.

That doesn't mean he was necessarily a good parent.

See also: Elizabeth Taylor. She adored her children, who adored her in turn; but by their own accounts she was pretty useless as a parent.

It's hard to be a good parent when you're constantly obsessed with having your own desires met, which is why so often movie stars and politicians make for bad parents.

Here's the nosepicker

Is Martha’s mother still alive? She was old then-poor thing.

R51 you really can’t compare Elizabeth Taylor to Bobby Kennedy. Taylor had many vacuous movie star pursuits like furs, jewelry, yachts and spending money like water when her kids were growing up. She wasn’t perfect as a parent, but her kids didn’t end up in the tabloids like Bobby and Ethel’s. Bobby wanted to help people, and carry on the family tradition, so he ran for Senator and potus. I think he and Ethel probably made a good team with their kids, educating, loving and doling out the discipline with them when they were young. But they grew up. When he was killed, Ethel no longer had that partnership, and the males just ran wild. She just didn’t have the patience or understanding to deal with them. If he lived, his sons would have turned out much different. People should think long and hard before they have 11 kids.

Well said, r54. All of Taylor’s kids grew up very well adjusted (at least, they seem to be). And an interesting note—it was the males in the Kennedy family that turned out to be problematic. The women are all accomplished and seemingly well adjusted.

Of course, R55, because they were humored at best, ignored at worst. No attention, but no pressure or expectations either...

If so, why didn't the girls wind up like the boys? One word - Lem Billings

Ethel sounds like a terrible mother. I’m sure she thought Bobby and servants would insulate her from real child-rearing.

R50

Honestly I thought Ethel looked great with more makeup. I thought Kim Novak was prettier in Vertigo as the shopgirl with extra makeup. Sometimes it’s quite striking.

[quote]Here's the nosepicker

How...unfortunate. 😆 Thanks r52!

R51 see R43

[quoe] "Loving" you kids doesn't equate parenting your kids. Bobby was away most of the time when they were growing up.

So was every other political parent in US history. It doesn't make you a "terrible person".

If you are gruesomely assassinated when your eldest kids are teenagers, and their mother and most other family members of that generation collapse with grief (because JFK had happened only five years before), the impact on those kids is hardly your fault. Or, arguably, their mother's. Nearly all families as rich as the Kennedys had maids and nannies raise the children in that age (and probably still do).

Nobody who could make up that speech he gave the night of MLK's assassination could be a terrible person. Watch the video: no notes, and no teleprompters in those days. The folded up paper in his hands is the speech he was meant to give that night.

r63, you keep equating being a good liberal Democrat (which RFK was) with being a good parent, and that's just not a true equation.

Whatever RFK did when MLK or his brother were assassinated had almost nothing to do with his parenting. You're really confusing the issue here.

I never said anything about being a good parent. I said he was not a "terrible person" as R36 averred.

And that all politicians are absent parents, so why pick on RFK in particular?

YOU are confusing the issue.

There was a separate "waterfront" program at the compound to teach RFKs' kids swimming and sailing. It was headed by a man named Sandy Isler and was needed because Ethels' tribe wasn't welcome in the yacht club program due to bad behavior. Really bad behavior.

Nobody wanted these terrors around their children. Try "Torn Lace Curtain" by Frank Saunders. He was there and it's all true.

Jackie made a big point of trying to keep her kids separate from RFK's because she thought they were holy terrors.

Of course she wasn't an attentive mother herself.

What kind of behavior, R66?

I don’t know that I would agree with that assessment of Jackie’s mothering style R67. By almost all accounts Jackie was an attentive mother and involved in her children’s lives and they in her’s. Even at the height of her jet setting period with Onassis the kids were traveling with her a lot of the time.

Now, her sister was another story. Lee was an extremely selfish and uninvolved mother to the point of borderline negligence. Her kids were both reported to have said they felt like their aunt Jackie was far more of a mother to them than Lee.

For one, they buried a kid up to his neck and left him for the tide to come in.

And even then there were drugs.

Years ago, someone on DL told a story about Ethel going to local gas stations for gas, only to have the attendants ask her "Do you have any cash today?" before letting her have any gas. Apparently known for not paying her bills.

There were also stories that she would return obviously worn clothes to the stores for a refund.

Apparently she let the pets pee and poop all over the house (Hickory Hill).

BTW, Hickory Hill had originally been purchased by JFK and Jackie when they were first married and expecting a child. But Jackie had a miscarriage in 1955 and the second child, a girl to be named Arabella was stillborn. They sold Hickory Hill to RFK & Ethel.

Ethel sounds like a real cunt! I'd like to be her friend!

[quote] By almost all accounts Jackie was an attentive mother and involved in her children’s lives and they in her’s.

Not according to the biographies I've read.

Onassis used to fly into the country just to watch the children compete in their athletic matches when he was their stepfather, and he was astounded Jackie would almost never come to see them. "Doesn't she care?" he would say.

Jackie and Ethel were always cordial with each other, but they were never close.

The Other Mrs.Kennedy has a ton of stories about Ethel not paying her bills.

She was notorious for going into Saks, purchasing clothes, wearing them, then returning them for cash.

The last time she did this, she bought a dress and wore it to an event, and a picture of her wearing the dress appeared in The Washington Post. The saleswoman clipped the picture out of the paper and saved it at the store.

A week later, one of Ethel’s maids attempted to return the dress, which had a stain on it. The store refused to take it back. Several days later, another maid showed up at Saks with the same dress, which had been dry cleaned and was on the dry cleaner’s hanger. The store refused to take it back and the maid argued.

The saleswoman who sold the dress wrote a note to Ethel , with the photo from the Post attached, to explain why it wasn’t going to be taken back;”I am sorry Mrs.Kennedy, but the dress has been worn and dry cleaned, and we are not a consignment shop. It does look great on you!”

There was also the time Ethel and her brood went to Aspen for Christmas, and at the last minute , contacted a local caterer to prepare the family’s Christmas Eve dinner. It took 2 years and a small claims lawsuit for the caterer to get paid.

Ethel was put on a very tight financial leash after Bobby died, and wouldn’t economize. She didn’t even have money for basic necessities; the roof at Hickory Hill was so degraded in the 70s that you could see the sky from inside the house through the holes in the roof. Ethel didn’t have the money to pay for a new roof, and Bobby’s mother and surviving siblings wouldn’t pay for it either. Finally, Jackie heard about it and paid for the new roof.

I think Stephen Smith, husband of old Joe's daughter Jean, was in control of the Kennedy family finances.

R18. There was definitely some gay chatter about RFK Jr. in the 1970s, supposed gym sauna episodes.

^ must have been when he was strung out on heroin.

Yes, r77. And the government suppressed the photos of RFK getting rushed to Walter Reed to have a gallon of semen pumped from his stomach, too

R79, I know you’re trying to be funny, but the “government” doesn’t give a shit about the Kennedy off-spring.

Wow Jackie sounds generous-Hickory Hill-Grey Gardens. It was Ari’s money yes but still she didn’t have to help.

Jackie Kennedy with all her faults was a much better person than her Kennedy sisters in laws.

They, especially Ethel, were quite mean to her but Jackie basically ignored them.

When Bobby was shot, John and Annie Glenn were babysitting the Kennedy kids. John Glenn told the kids their dad had been killed.