Monsters: The Lyle and Erik Menendez Story

I had my fill of them when it was news. Their story doesn’t interest me like some true crime tales.

R1 - Amen. Of all the news stories - this has already been done to death. Seems like somebody from LA thought everyone else would be interested in this stuff.

They're not. Of course some young people don't know about it - so I guess there's an online audience.

I'm completely and totally done with this, Marilyn Monroe's death, OJ Simpson - and it goes on.

I didn't think I could stomach the Dahmer one but I may check this out

Might be worth it to see Nathan Lane as Dominick Dunne.

r4 I thought that too. I miss Dominick Dunne, I loved his writing and he always was an interesting interview.

Just started watching and it is pretty good with some humor. Lyle loves Milli Vanilli and played it at the parents funeral. Dr. Oziel is quirky. Erik's a mess and Lyle is an ass.

Kitty snatched Lyle's wig off! OMG

I’m watching it mainly for the great cast, especially Javier Bardem and Emmy winner Nicolas Chavez who did an excellent job as Spencer Cassadine on General Hospital.

They even have Zsa Zsa slapping the cop. I loved the 80's.

First thread was better

I’m enjoying it. This is a step up from the Dahmer show.

Erik shows D in the shower scene

I knew they said the father molested them, but Erik just said Lyle molested him?

It is so sordid. I may watch it some day but right now I have to find light things to watch. Or up the dosage of my anti anxiety meds.

What's with the heavy make-up? Lyle and Erik were both wearing a ton of foundation. It was distracting.

Full frontal nudity of Erik in the prison shower

r15 Lyle requests self tanner when he's in prison so maybe that's why his face looks like that

Watched first episode. It’s good!

Is Chloe good or serviceable?

That gay kiss was hot af.

I'm loving it, binging it now. Lightyears better than that Nicole Kidman trash they put out 2 weeks ago. As far as true crime goes it's right up there with the Betty B. story. The 80s was a messed up timea dn I remember it fondly. Love the Milli Vanilli interspersed throughout. Yes it's been talked about to death but still worth watching for Javier and Chloe.

Oh no, he angered the MAGATs!

[Quote]He’s going to hell, creating incest fanfiction of real life brothers is INSANE.[/Quote]

and I remember it fondly*

Javier Bardem really brings Jose Menendez to life in such a menacing way.

I'm good.

Why did he make Eric gay when he isn't in real life? Or is Eric actually bi? I'm very confused. Apparently he's married to a woman. I guess he could be bi, but I have a feeling this is another one of Murphy's creative choices.

I'll watch just for Javier Bardem.

I'll just "watch" the screengrabs, thank you.

I see Ryan Murphy is making up shit again.

R26, the first season of Feud was 97% pure fiction. They even presented a fake internet meme as fact. Murphy shouldn’t have a career.

And unfortunately people are going to watch this and think it’s factual. They already want these two pathological killers out of prison thanks to TikTok and Rosie O. Ryan Murphy is a sick pos.

Tracey Ullman should be the only one to ever portray Leslie Abramson.

The murders recreation is horrific.

And CGI’d.

I’ll watch it this weekend!

R26, according to the prosecutors he was hooking up with guys in prison

When in Rome you do as the Romans do.

There were hints that he was gay or bi before he went to prison, supposedly Jose knew and was furious

I was very young when this happened and I've never really delved into the story, but it's good so far.

R39, the show is inaccurate. You’re watch a soap opera. Keep that in mind. It’s fiction.

9 episodes of this crap?

R10 that thread deteriorated into bitch-slapping.

R36 But he ended up marrying a woman, so he's most likely bi, not gay.

This show is disgusting. Ryan Murphy turned it into an incest porno.

I just finished binging. I thought it was very well done.

Was Murphy suggesting they were fucking the mom too? Yeah lots of 'creative license' here; kind of hard to take it seriously as I get further in.

[quote]Full frontal nudity of Erik in the prison shower

More cock from Cooper Koch.

For those who have seen Episode 4 (with Dominick Dunne's cocktail party)....I hope you all picked up on who the brunette in the yellow dress was supposed to be. IYKYK

R45, you only saw 2 of 9 episodes.

Carrie Fisher R48?

You can DEFINITELY tell a gay guy created this. Stuffed Speedos, hung and ripped muscular men everywhere. It was a bit much. Great eye candy, but seriously?

I think the show is well done aside from doing too much with the gay baiting and incestuous vibes.

The acting is good too.

I've talked to that cutie who played the male hustler on Grindr before lol

Variety

It would be stronger if they cut out 1-2 episodes. The first half was better.

I’m tired of Ryan Murphy’s obsession with OJ. OJ25 is better than his show.

R53 Yes. The acting was the only good thing about this show, maybe in addition to the eye candy.

Do we actually know if Eric is gay in real life? Why did he marry a woman? And if he did hook up with men in prison, isn't that soemthing everyone does? How does that prove he's gay? Did he ever hook up with guys before going to prison? I know the show hints at it, but is that part true or made up?

^ Read the book "Blood Brothers" by Ron Soble and John Johnson, it talks about the gay stuff

If Erik married a woman while in prison I would think it would be a great arrangement if he is gay. You have somebody looking out for you, sending you care packages, and you don't have to have sex with her.

I don’t like Nathan Lane as Dominick Dunne.

I’m enjoying it. The hints of teasing homoeroticism in the first couple of eps make sense once you understand the show’s portrayal of the environment of sexual abuse Jose fostered. I like how the tone starts out pulpy, almost satirical, and then grows tragic. It’s a high-wire act and, unlike most streaming shows, it’s super fast-paced.

Chavez and Koch are both extraordinary.

This show and Murphy are being ripped to shreds.

R64 So was Dahmer but it still was popular and won awards.

[quote] Why did he make Eric gay when he isn't in real life? Or is Eric actually bi? I'm very confused. Apparently he's married to a woman. I guess he could be bi, but I have a feeling this is another one of Murphy's creative choices.

[quote] Do we actually know if Eric is gay in real life? Why did he marry a woman?

Listen, Rose, Eric being gay has been discussed for many years. Have you never heard of a gay man marrying a woman? Especially an incarcerated gay man?

What do you want - Eric to place his hand on a Bible and say, "I am gay"?

Review - The Independent

Ryan Murphy has long been fascinated by causes célèbres that bring together grisly true crimes and sensational media coverage, cases that draw into question our collective appetite for consuming horrors. But just how successfully he does that – and whether the resulting series are interrogative or just flat-out exploitative – can be pretty hit and miss.

Before the murder, the atmosphere in the family’s home is almost unbearably febrile. But moments of high drama sometimes come across as inadvertently camp: one scene in the first episode, in which Sevigny brutally whips a toupee from her son’s head, leaving him bald and morose, feels destined to become a meme. Sequences like this, interspersed with exposition-laden dialogue about the police investigation, mean the tone oscillates from silly to serious.

Thankfully, this latest in the Monster series lacks the gruesome excesses of Dahmer. But it also feels like a muddled mix of the best and worst of Murphy’s oeuvre. It’s likely to please his legions of fans, but may leave his detractors feeling a little queasy.

I really liked Ryan Murphy's Impeachment about Clinton and Lewinsky

I wonder why his Gianni Versace show didn’t get backlash from the anti true-crime crowd.

They didn’t watch it, R69. Netflix (as opposed to FX) tends to attract a more hair-trigger, low-information type of couch potato.

Vicki Lawrence plays a juror

I'm in the middle of episode 3. If I continue, it will be because I find Cooper Koch (Erik) so appealing.

I’m on Episode 2. These brothers were idiots!

Chloe getting shot in the first episode was pretty horrific

It's clear that Ryan Murphy has fantasized about Lyle and Erik being incestuous lovers, but since he was restrained by the real facts, he couldn't explore the kinky shit he really enjoys.

I always thought the excuse of the murders committed because of sexual abuse was just an excuse they came up with but this show pretty much endorses and supports it

R61 "You have somebody looking out for you, sending you care packages, and you don't have to have sex with her."

and you can still be a cocksucking homicidal maniac.

Our Dream Boy !

I liked Nathan Lane as Dominick Dunne, but all of those long summations at his dinner parties became silly.

I saw the "poster" for it while scrolling the other night. Those actors look like gay porn twinks and nothing like the real brothers. Yeah, it's some incest fantasy of Murphy's.

The question i still ask is were the parents really abusive or was it all just to get the money?

R78, Dominic Dunne actually did that. He was hosted by one of his wealthy hags, who'd host a dinner party so he could update people on what was going on at the trial as well as his own opinions and observations. He covered all the celebrity type crime or crimes of the wealthy or high society types, for Vanity Fair. I get why Ryan Murphy used it as a device to move the narrative along.

Kitty was a terrible mother.

The apoligist frau posters here recall the sociopath duo's femcel stans swarming the courthouse steps. Rending their plus size track suits screeching "their boys" innocence. Queuing up to marry the homocidal homosexuals. And you wonder why men hold you lumpen cows in contempt?

[quote]I always thought the excuse of the murders committed because of sexual abuse was just an excuse they came up with but this show pretty much endorses and supports it

Have you watched the entire thing? It seems that way up until the final episode.

The Hollywood Reporter.

[quote]Vicki Lawrence plays a juror

Does she play it as Thelma Harper?

"Good night, these two goons are going at it worse than Vint and Naomi!"

R81, the fraus aren't the ones who committed murder. 90% of homicides are committed by men, does that make it okay to hate men the way you hate women?

R76, it's kind of depressing how this show (and the Law and Order: True Crime one) just take them at the word and assumes they were telling the truth about everything. Like the abuse and that shit about Lyle's toupee getting ripped off which Erik probably just made up

She may as well have, R84.

Vicki played a juror in an episode of Murder, She Wrote.

Statement from Erik Menendez on the show.

R85, that statistic excludes trans women from the men!

Menudo boy band member claims he was raped by dad Jose Menendez.

He's claiming it now. Strangely, when they were facing the death penalty, he said nothing...

They don’t kill their parents over molestation. They were grown men. They weren’t trapped. They killed them over money. They’re sociopaths, as was the father. The entire family was fucked up in the head.

Hardly all women. Just the headless manatees on this thread .Sparkle on R85

Say what you will about this limited series, but Nicolas Chavez as Lyle Menendez is acting his tall beautiful ass off. I mean, if you saw him in General Hospital, you shouldn’t be surprised. The man is very talented.

Episode 1 is, at best, a guilty pleasure. Bardem and Sevigny are hammy—I blame the direction more than them. Everything seems a little over the top. Dallas Roberts is the least convincing therapist ever.

The Milli vanilla songs are a nice touch.

[quote]Dallas Roberts is the least convincing therapist ever.

Which means he's nailing it. Oziel was quack.

I've only seen ep 1, but it has Ryan Murphy written all over it: terrific actors and a great subject, but too broad by half. If Murphy is true to his past projects this will prove to be several episodes too long and the writing will deteriorate.

Javier Bardem is, as others have said, brilliant.

I thought the ending was great but by that point I was already SO over hearing Lyle having yelling/screaming outbursts. Enough.

Even as a preteen I used to mock the Milli Vanilli songs so it is funny they chose them, I don't know if Lyle actually did love their music.

Did Lyle really play “Girl I’m Going To Miss You” for his parents’ funeral slideshow? That seems like an odd choice…

That really was Lyle’s musical selection and it was played at the funeral, R101.

In spite of everything, I wish Nicholas Chavez and Cooper Koch luck, and better projects.

R103 They were both great in this. I was impressed by Koch in episode 5. Should land him an Emmy nomination.

That Episode 3 prison shower scene was HOT AS FUCK!

Episodes 1-4 are the usual Ryan Murphy mixed bag (I liked more than I didn't but rolled my eyes plenty). But Episode 5 is astonishing -- shot in one unbroken take, the camera gradually closing in on Cooper Koch, who's mesmerizing as he delivers what amounts to a massive monologue.

I'm pleasantly surprised by Ari Graynor, who's terrific as Leslie Abramson. So far there's much less of Bardem and Sevigny than I expected, but they're both excellent.

Anybody else think Murphy could have done an anthology series on LA alone? The riots, the night stalker (covered in AHS), River Phoenix......

I still can’t believe these 2 stupid fuckers did this.

In less than 8-10 years, both of them would have been out of the family home with good jobs & their own families to screw over, mind fuck, & abuse.

As far as the series is concerned, I actually like this depiction. It’s camp filled, funny and profoundly pathetic all at once.

The 2 leads hold their own, but we all know they don’t look a day below 30 IRL.

R107 actually that's good idea. He's already made a start.

R108, Chavez was 24 when he filmed this, LOL.

Didn’t know that, R110.

Regardless, it’s really good casting. They’re both a great fit.

R106 I thought the first half of the season was stronger than the second half, which I felt got a bit drawn out, repetetive and boring. Cooper Koch did amazing in episode 5, which was the stand out episode imo.

The gory liquid details of his father raping them. Is any of this verified or would that be impossible?

I finished it and I’m shocked that I loved it. Wow. Ryan Murphy delivered on this one.

And I just discovered that their defense attorney was Meadow’s fucking roommate Caitlyn on The Sopranos. Dear God, how did I watch her this whole time without picking up on that? I’m floored right now.

I totally agree r106! Episode 5 was absolutely riveting.

The show basically says that Erik is gay. He’s married to a woman so what does that mean?

Is he also the one friends with Rosie O and Kathy Griffin?

Is EP 5 really one 32 minute take or is there some digital trickery? Impressive.

Nicholas Alexander Chavez is just as good in some of his scenes. Maybe better. I can't look away.

Leave it to Ryan Murphy to have incestuous innuendo because the brothers were both hot.

Never change, Ryan Murphy. Never change.

Let me add to R106 and R115 that Episode 5 is a marvel. It is all one-shot. After 10 minutes I was wondering if they would keep it all one shot with gradual zooming into a close-up shot. And they did. Fantastic. And Cooper Koch should get some awards for that.

Am I the only one who thought it wasn't that great, and way too heavy on the incest? I didn't need to hear about all that fucked up shit. The monologue scene was painful to watch and added nothing to the story. I agree that the prison scene was hot, though. I had to shut it off for a minute to relieve myself.

[quote]I had to shut it off for a minute to relieve myself.

*fap* *fap* *fap*

I rather like this guy's review.

It's very entertaining. I love Ryan Murphy. I remember the trial on Court TV.

You agree with the prude? The show took a stance. It's a story about monstrous parents who create monsters. Take it or leave it. It think it's pretty strong insight into incest.

The best part of the entire series was Vickie Lawrence’s potty-mouthed tirade.

My comment at R125 is about R123.

What episode was the hot prison scene?

R126 I gotta agree.

LEAVE OUR BOYS ALONE !!! STOP BLAMING THE VICTIMS PEOPLE !!!!

R116 I have no idea. It's very confusing. My guess is he's bisexual, probably a Kinsey 1 or 2. The plot twist is that Lyle is apparently the one with a prison lover now.

R106, R115 and R117: I agree. It was an impressive performance by Cooper Koch. He should get some awards for that, or at the very least nominations. I agree with R118 too Nicholas was amazing too, they were both really good. They both deserve nominations.

Todd Bridges was in custody at the same time as the Menendez brothers (pretrial detainees). Todd said , IIRC, that Erik was nice / OK, but Lyle was more like a criminal.

People forget that the two brothers were in trouble with the law even before the murders. They had been burglarizing houses, which is weird considering the parents were wealthy.

[quote] They had been burglarizing houses, which is weird considering the parents were wealthy

You clearly know nothing about wealthy wastrel scions.

Is there going to be a Stevie Nicks song in all of this? We all know how Ryan loves her.

R133 That is pretty much how they came across on the show too. Erik was sweet and sympathetic, meanwhile Lyle acted more like a criminal. It's funny how Erik gave that statement though, saying they got Lyle all wrong.

Erik was the one who felt remorseful about the killing.

I wondered who the guy Eric met in prison was played by, and Twitter was also interested as well.

You old queens wished you had a glamorous life in Beverly Hills. Back in 1989 you were living in your hovels and wondering why your parents hated you.

R131 Gay for the stay.

[quote]I agree that the prison scene was hot, though. I had to shut it off for a minute to relieve myself.

That's okay, honey. Everybody has had to pee during a television show now and then.

Erik said in his testimony that he thought he was gay, but that he's attracted to women. So maybe he's straight after all. It's a shame because Erik was so cute, he still sorta is. I wish he was gay (or bi), oh well.

r141 He was JERKING OFF. MASTURBATING. HIS SPERM CAME ALL OVER HIS HAND AND A LITTLE BIT RAN DOWN HIS LEG.

And then he wiped his hand off with toilet paper and squeezed the tip of his DICK and the wiped up the rest of his sperm on his stomach and flushed it down the fucking TOILET.

And you know what?

He's going to do it AGAIN and AGAIN.

Rosie O did a Tik tok denouncing the miniseries despite her previous friendship with Ryan Murphy.

She said she spoke with both brothers and said the three are close friends.

That would have been an interesting coda scene

r144 "said the three are close friends"

She said she was close friends with the brothers?

R145 Rosie says she's "close friends" with every celebrity and notable she ever met. She claimed she was 'best friends' with Streisand since the late 90s / early 2000s. Notice how many times Streisand mentioned her in her memoir from last year ? Never. Shows what she thought of their 'close friendship' over the past 27 years.

Kim Kardashian and Cooper Koch visited the Menendez brothers and 40 other prisoners yesterday, to speak about 'prison reform'. How adorbs ! Bet you those prisoners were fantasizing about fucking Koch over Kardashain. They have taste.

R145 yes the three are close friends, she had Erik on her podcast last year and speaks to both regularly.

She said in her Tik tok even she is surprised by the friendship

So Chavez got away with 1 ass shot while Koch has to pretty much masturbate on screen?

What are you complaining about, R149? You didn’t get enough Chavez? He was practically half naked the whole time. If he wasn’t shirtless, he had a shirt so tight that he might as well be shirtless. Abs, arms, pecs, shoulders, thighs, calves, feet. It’s all Chavez eye candy from beginning to end.

Rosie says she's good friends with Madonna. Madonna doesn't have any close friendships. She's incapable.

R142, he got caught lying on the stand multiple times! 🤣

The acting in this thing is unusually terrible. For every skilled performer like Dallas Roberts or Jason Butler Harner, you have a performance like the one given by Chavez, who makes his repulsive character even more so with his slobbish histrionics, and Koch isn't much better to watch. They each cry a mimimum of twice in every episode, and the usual Ryan Murphy trope of homoeroticism and titillating nudity doesn't do much to cover for the inadequacies, making this yet another Ryan Murphy misfire. And just when you think the two central performances are the nadir, Ari Graynor, playing Leslie Abramson, walks into the series and really stinks it up.

It's hard to watch a show with characters as stupid as these two. It's like watching The Dummies' Guide To Leopold and Loeb. I know the real-life pair of murdering brothers weren't exactly great minds, but with the two incompetents playing them, they should sue the production for libel.

R153 Really? I thought Koch was impressive in episode 5. I agree about Chavez, but Koch was actually quite good imo.

ATTENTION! ATTENTION!

This is Miss Shuster!

Erik Menendez does not spell his name as "Eric." He spells it as "Erik."

And a swarm of killer bees are [sic] headed this way!

Watching episode 5 now, and Koch does redeem himself, partly, R154, but it took 5 episodes in.

R153 How can you watch episode 5 and call Koch a bad actor? He was universally praised for his performance in that episode.

R157, see R156.

R153, Ari Graynor didn't quite land for me in her early episodes; her vocal delivery felt mannered. However, I noticed a significant improvement in her performance starting around episode five. That said, she did come across as slightly too young for the role—Leslie Abramson was in her late forties and early fifties during the time of the case.

I've always appreciated Chloë Sevigny, and I think it reflects well on Ryan Murphy that he continues to cast her in such high profile projects. I only wish we had seen more of her.

Leslie Grossman, despite her limited screen time as Judalon Smyth, stood out to me. She’s a resourceful actress and was able to infuse her character with particularities, conveying much about her in just a few scenes. I loved her line readings when she was testifying and bribing Oziel’s daughter with the giant Hershey’s bar.

While I liked the series, they were better off without the incest stuff. I figured there must be some allegation from a news story or book that they were incestuous, but instead it’s totally made up. If Ryan Murphy and company wanted to make shit extra spicy, then the relationship between Erik and Craig should’ve been the conduit.

[quote]Rosie says she's good friends with Madonna. Madonna doesn't have any close friendships. She's incapable.

Let's not forget her 'close friendship' with Boy George in the 90s and early 2000s, until they collaborated on 'Taboo' for Broadway and that blew up their friendship.

Let's face it - Rosie is 'needy'. I think celebs play her game of 'friendship' only to help her feel wanted, and for whatever they can get out of her in the moment. For example, Streisand was offered to stay at her home in Florida back in 2006, when Streisand was on tour. She accepted (who wouldn't ?) and that was all Rosie could talk about on 'The View' when it happened; she had to let everyone know that Streisand was her friend and staying at her home in Miami. She said Streisand left her a hand-written thank you note, which Rosie found in her 'arts and crafts' room. Streisand never mentioned her stay at Rosie's in public. Never said anything about Rosie's home.

In 2000, when she traveled to Australia (March, 2000), her friend Olivia Newton-John offered Streisand her home to stay in for as long as she wanted (Streisand ended up staying a month). Did ONJ ever mention this in public ? Never. How did the public find out about this ? Streisand made it public as she was getting ready to leave, in an interview with an Australian radio show - publicly thanking ONJ for her hospitality and generosity. She also said in that interview that Olivia had a beautiful home filled with 'warmth and love', and she was 'stealing ideas' to bring to her home in Malibu. That's real friendship.

it's comical how hot the brothers are on the show vs how they looked in reality, almost as if Erik and Lyle were in charge of casting.

r153 You are mistaken

R160 incest with their parents is ALL OVER THIS STORY from their own statements to all the statements made in the first trial. It is hardly "made up".

Did you even read what you posted? If anything it buttresses that the incest angle is bullshit.

[QUOTE] Lyle Menendez did admit on the stand to sexually abusing his brother. He claimed he learned to do so from his father, whom the brothers claimed sexually abused them both starting when they were six. While he admitted this during the trial, Lyle barely held back tears as he apologized to Erik.

[QUOTE]Aside from this disturbing revelation, the narrative that the brothers had an incestuous romantic relationship with one another is not a common narrative or even a common rumor.

[QUOTE] In Robert Rand’s “The Menendez Murders: The Shocking Untold Story of the Menendez Family and the Killings that Stunned the Nation,” he details that one of Erik’s jurors during the first trial suggested the brothers were romantically involved. The juror proposed the theory that Erik and Lyle’s parents learned about their relationship, which was the real reason why the brothers killed their parents.

[QUOTE] The theory was ultimately thrown out

[QUOTE] Many also noted that Lyle was protective of his younger brother. But other than those details, the implication that the two had a romantic relationship seems to be a work of fiction.

Are you referring to incest ONLY as sexual contact FOR PLEASURE with family members? Alright then.

Because they were all SEXUAL ABUSING each other in that family, apparently.

r164 is 100% accurate

Rosie should have just STFU about Babs staying at her Miami house. If Babs had talked about it first ("Rosie was kind enough to let me stay in her Miami house when I was on tour"), then Rosie could have talked about it.

Celebrities don't want to be blabbed about, especially if it's about being someone's house guest.

For some reason I remembered Erik as the mastermind of the two. I can never keep the two straight.

Yeah, even though they look different, I had a hard time figuring out which one was Erik and which was Lyle. I think Lyle was the alpha dog of the two. (Lyle had straight hair, when he (Lyle) young; Erik has curly hair and is the one that most DLers (except the ones who want PROOF) suspect is gay.)

I still can't tell the Olsen twins apart and they're not even identical twins.

I watched their trial on Court TV way back. That was enough for me.

But you didn’t get to see them kissing on Court TV, R171.

R163, it's not for you to say that my impressions of this show are "mistaken." Obviously, you have a different opinion. Vive la difference!

the cousin did say their father showered with Erik and Lyle after tennis and that Kitty barred everyone else from going down that wing of the house

[Quote]For some reason I remembered Erik as the mastermind of the two. I can never keep the two straight.

Don't worry, Ryan Murphy can't keep anyone straight.

[Quote] For some reason I remembered Erik as the mastermind of the two

It depends on what you mean by mastermind. But yes he shows Erik as coming up with the idea when watching some stupid movie.

R173 I’m afraid you’re mistaken

I wish they would stop using prosthetics for penises. They create some unrealistic expectations.

The cast is great although I’m surprised Javier did it since his character is so one note. Chloe will take any scraps she can get.

I do believe they were molested but I still think their motives were primarily financial - to get rid of the parents and inherit their money.

Older brother Lyle and Erik then.

Lyle and Erik in Monsters.

[QUOTE] the cousin did say their father showered with Erik and Lyle after tennis and that Kitty barred everyone else from going down that wing of the house

And, R174? How does that speak toward Erik and Lyle having a romantic incestuous relationship? If Ryan Murphy wanted to play that up, then he should’ve showed the boys making out with their father. I guess we won’t see that until Luca Guadagnino does his take on the Menendez saga.

Lyle and Erik now.

R169, don't feel too bad about that. Ryan Murphy can't keep them straight either.+

Erik looks better now. Lyle is unfortunate looking.

R177, you don't seem to understand what the word "opinion" means.

R164, Lyle was recorded saying that he made it up. There are articles about it back in 1994 and 1996. It was complete bs. It’s why they’re sitting in prison right now. Everything came out in the second trial.

The “he put pins in my penis” is the shit straight out of the satanic panic of the 1980s and early 90s. All that was left was claiming child sacrifice.

R160 Some people claim there were rumors during the trial that they were incestuous, so it wasn't completely made up. I do agree though that we should have seen more of Erik's gay tendencies. I think the reason we didn't is because Erik isn't actually gay in real life. Murphy just invented that for the show. In his testimony the real Erik says that he thought he might be gay, but that he's not. I think the relationships with Craig and the prison inmate were both made up by Murphy.

I remember back in 1990, before they were arrested / convicted, there were rumors going around that PLAYGIRL had signed a deal with them to pose nude for a pictorial. (Brothers posing nude together in PLAYGIRL back then was not exactly 'uncommon'). Once they got arrested, the rumors quieted down - thoough some say the reason they didn't pose nude was only because of their arrest.

I remembered this when I was watching episode 2 and Erik was posing in some sexy poses for the photographer with his new celebrity fame (while he was believed to be innocent). I'm betting this was Murphy's nod to the Playgirl offer. Maybe he couldn't come right out and recreate them signing with Playgirl and how the deal fell through if he couldn't get clearance from the magazine or the brothers ? (Keep in mind all the other stuff which is being recreated is all based on public record, while the PLAYGIRL deal was a private matter between the two parites).

R162 The real Erik was kinda cute.

R186 Why then are they both still claiming that they were abused?

What other defense do they have, R191?

The trailer is terrible - doesn't make me want to watch.

I was in my 20s when they were arrested and I definitely was attracted to Erik. The show is very creepy with all the family details.

So…. About the nudity…. Erik only?

Asking for a friend : )

Javier Bardem always looks like he could be a stone cold hit man or serial killer. He is mean ugly hot, like Oliver Reed and Eric Roberts.

These brothers are both sociopaths but Lyle is worse as he is more controlling and manipulative.

Why did Lyle lose his hair? It can't be alopecia since he only lost the crown hair. And is screwing a toupee into your skull really a thing?

The dad taking showers with Lyle and Erik is crossing a parent-child boundary. It's relevant to the brothers possibly having had an incestuous relationship. The taboo (sex between parent and child) is broken and then it seems okay to have sex with your sibling.

R188, you can watch the trial footage on YouTube. His sexuality came up at the trial, it wasn't something Ryan Murphy invented. He was being asked about it for a reason

R189, Erik took some shirtless photos for a gay photographer. I'm too lazy to look for them online but you can probably find them through a Google search.

I always enjoyed Dominick Dunne's comments on cases and I knew about his daughter, but he came off badly in this. Maybe he snubbed Ryan Murphy in the past and Murphy has a grudge.

[quote] Why did Lyle lose his hair? It can't be alopecia since he only lost the crown hair.

He was wearing a wig as early as high school. My guess is that the household was, indeed, extremely stressful. The mother sounded awful, as well.

I'm not condoning what they did, but they could have easily killed their father, only.

I don't think he came off badly at all, R202. I think Dunne was one of the very few sympathetic characters.

Just finished watching it. Loved sexy Paul Adelstein as the prosecuting attorney who bulldozed over Abramson and her killer clients, and Vicky Lawrence also kicks ass as the juror who wants to see the brothers get the dealth penalty.

Here's Adelstein nude for others who enjoy his sexy bearness.

This is horrible. The actors look nothing like them. Stopped after the first episode. Another Ryan Murphy I won’t be finishing.

[quote]Does she play it as Thelma Harper? "Good night, these two goons are going at it worse than Vint and Naomi!"

She almost caused a mistrial when she insisted that Leslie Lemoyne was the one who committed the murders.

I'm watching it now and just seeing Cooper Koch in a speedo with his big bulge is worth it. Have to rewind a few times.

Nathan Lane was very good as Dunne.

The line where Abramson tells Dunne that he should thank his daughter's killer for giving him a career was very wicked, and also true. It would be hard to reconcile that, I would imagine.

R200 I know. I've watched it. That part is true. However he said he only thought he was gay due to the abuse, he's attracted to women.

Leslie Abramson was such an abrasive cunt. Tracey Ullman brilliantly parodied her with her attorney character.

Just finished ep. 3. That shower scene was fucking HOTT

The actors did a great job but the storylines were messy. The second half of the series was derailed just like most of Ryan Murphy’s projects.

Where or when did Chavez get these acting chops? He was sleepwalking on GH for 5 years.

The sex abuse angle always sounded like some defense attorney bullshit.

R214 I thought Chavez single-handedly gave GH a shot of energy during his tenure, which, incidentally, only lasted 2.5 years. The Daytime Emmys and a legion of online Sprina lunatics can’t all be wrong (I mean, they can, but they’re not IMO).

They're both so hot

R216 Really? I thought he was AWFUL on GH. And YES, legions of online soap operas can be ALL wrong. I'm sure it helps that he's built like a Greek statue.

The actor playing Erik is a plank of dry wood.

R20 you need to get out more.

R43 that means shit. They’ve never consummated the marriage.

[quote]It's like watching The Dummies' Guide To Leopold and Loeb.

R153 nailed it. I just finished episode three, and I don’t know if I’ve even gonna bother to watch the rest of it.

Did the brothers really use that awful song at their parents funeral? That had me rolling on the floor.

Fun fact. They attended the same K-12 in Princeton NJ as Christopher Reeve.

I can't give this 9 hours of my life. Can someone guide toward the best Nathan Lane scenes? (I'm a huge fan). Other than the shower scene in episode 3, what are the hottest not to be missed moments/episodes? Thanks Dataloungers! (And yes, I'll watch all of episode 5).

R213 I agree. First half of the season was really good. Second half was boring.

R219 missed episode 5.

R225 The incest scenes in episode 2 were kinda hot, the kiss and then dancing together. Other than that there's not much, only a very brief shower scene with the brothers soaping each other up, and a one second BJ scene with Erik and his prison buddy.

[QUOTE] I can't give this 9 hours of my life. Can someone guide toward the best Nathan Lane scenes? (I'm a huge fan). Other than the shower scene in episode 3, what are the hottest not to be missed moments/episodes? Thanks Dataloungers! (And yes, I'll watch all of episode 5).

Who the hell just randomly watches pieces of something? If you can’t watch the whole thing, then you don’t deserve the best parts.

It’s on a streaming platform, broken up into nine episodes. Okay? You’re not in a movie theater forced to digest the whole thing in one sitting. You can pause and start it whenever you want, picking up exactly where you left off. One episode here, one episode there. You can be done in a week or two. Take two or three months—I’ve had get through TV seasons that way before. But pretend like you’re just soooo busy that you can’t watch it.

r229 Take a deep breath

It’s funny that Netflix can get away with a prosthetic penis because it’s fake, but they are usually oversized.

This shit is so fucking boring.

I like Nathan Lane as Dominick Dunne!

Cooper Koch and Nicholas Alexander Chavez recreating THE pic.

Agree r216!!

As shown in r234 post, I’ve always thought the real Menendez brothers were kinda unattractive. Ryan Murphy did them a favor casting Chavez and Koch to play them.

The fantasy escape/plastic surgery scene in Episode 3 is hilarious. I have to keep watching.

Erik and Lyle Menendez speak out for the first time in decades in the official trailer for “The Menendez Brothers,” a new documentary feature streaming on Netflix in October. The brothers were convicted of murdering their parents, Jose and Kitty, in 1996 in a trial that captivated the nation and which is currently the subject of Netflix’s narrative series “Monsters: The Lyle and Erik Menendez Story.”

“Everyone asks why we killed our parents,” Lyle says in an audio interview from prison. “Maybe now people can understand the truth.”

“What happened that night is very well known but so much hasn’t been told,” adds Erik. “We were not the ones who told the story about our lives. Two kids don’t commit this crime for money.”

The official synopsis for “The Menendez Brothers” documentary from Netflix reads: “In 1996, Lyle and Erik Menendez were convicted for the murders of their parents in what became one of the most famous criminal cases of the late 20th century. For the first time in 30 years, and in their own words, both brothers revisit the trial that shocked the nation. Through extensive audio interviews with Lyle and Erik, lawyers involved in the trial, journalists who covered it, jurors, family and other informed observers, acclaimed Argentinian director Alejandro Hartmann offers new insight and a fresh perspective on a case that people only think they know.”

Erik Menendez recently made headlines for slamming Netflix’s “Monsters,” which debuted Sept. 19 on the streaming platform. The show is backed by Ryan Murphy and is the second installment in the “Monster” anthology series, which kicked off in 2022 with a season about Jeffery Dahmer (played by Evan Peters). Nicholas Chavez and Cooper Koch star in “Monsters” as Lyle and Erik Menendez, with Javier Bardem as their father Jose and Chloe Sevigny as their mother Kitty.

In an online statement posted via his wife Tammi Menendez’s X account, Erik said that the drama series perpetuated “ruinous character portrayals” of him and his brother. The statement also accused Murphy of having bad intent due to the nature of the narrative that the showrunner created.

“I believed we had moved beyond the lies and ruinous character portrayals of Lyle, creating a caricature of Lyle rooted in horrible and blatant lies rampant in the show. I can only believe they were done so on purpose,” Erik wrote. “It is with a heavy heart that I say, I believe Ryan Murphy cannot be this naive and inaccurate about the facts of our lives so as to do this without bad intent.”

R235 Erik has always been cute imo.

Javier Bardem is really good in this but he needs to shut the fuck up about Israel.

[quote]Other than that there's not much, only a very brief shower scene with the brothers soaping each other up, and a one second BJ scene with Erik and his prison buddy.

Which episodes are these two scenes in ?

Erik menendez's opinion on gay people .....

He didn't think it was bad to be gay.

And he was confused as to whether or not he himself was gay.

But he admits to liking girls.

Watching and listening to his testimony, I believe him.

Why hasn't Menudo's Roy Rossello's claims of sexual abuse been taken into consideration for Lyle and Eric's case?

r242 It has been

[quote] Who the hell just randomly watches pieces of something? If you can’t watch the whole thing, then you don’t deserve the best parts.

Who knew there were such urgent moral strictures behind the proper watching of "Monsters: The Lyle and Erik Menendez Story"?

Every time I see Chloe on screen, I keep thinking she's portraying Jill Winebanks and not Kitty Menendez. And the actress portraying Abrams on the show is definitely the weakest link.

No matter what character Nathan Lane gets cast in, he always manages to play it the same. His Dominick Dunne portrayal is hardly any different than his character in 'The Gilded Age'.

Leslie Abramson was shrill and cunty. The actress playing her is too sympathetic.

Really, R245? He's clearly playing his GILDED AGE character for yuks -- the Foghorn Leghorn accent, etc. I normally love him, but it's awfully broad.

He's playing Dunne much more naturalistically, with no shtick in sight.

Agree with r247

R241, I don't believe him. He lied about everything. He and Lyle tried to make it look like "the mob" killed their parents. He got busted by the prosecution for lying on the stand

I believe him

[quote] He and Lyle tried to make it look like "the mob" killed their parents.

This video is cool.

It shows 10 interesting facts about the Menendez case.

Who would have thought that they even have a connection to OJ Simpson, through Shapiro.

I think the weakest link is Chloe Sevigny. I just don't think she's believable as a rich, spoiled, neglectful Beverly Hills 80s housewife.

I think she's fine.

For some reason, I think Scarlett Johanson could have played Leslie Abramson.

Or Cheri Oteri.

[quote] For some reason, I think Scarlett Johanson could have played Leslie Abramson.

Or Rebecca Gayheart.

Glenn Close could have played Leslie, but is too old at this point.

[quote] I think the weakest link is Chloe Sevigny. I just don't think she's believable as a rich, spoiled, neglectful Beverly Hills 80s housewife.

On the other hand, she's entirely believable as The Father of Our Country!

[quote] Leslie Abramson Shows the Court Nude Photographs of the Menendez Brothers at 6 and 8 Years Old

She's really wacky.

I get what people are saying about her being abrasive.

Here she is trying to paint a picture, to gain sympathy from the jury.

But instead, she sounds angry. Like she's yelling at them.

Can we talk about the weird and almost creepy scene in episode 6, where José does Roman Empire cosplay with the rent boy to celebrate his signing of Menudo??

She doesn't sound angry at the jury to me, at all. She is expressing her anger about the (alleged) atrocious parenting.

Leslie did a good job as Erik's attorney. Erik ran out of money before his second trial. Leslie tried to stay on as his attorney and receive the court-appointed attorney's fee, but the judge said no. The Menendez brothers received less favorable pre-trial rulings during the 2nd trial. The trial was also not televised, IIRC, and was happening at the same time as the OJ trial, I think.

Abramson came up with a plausible reason for why they might have plausibly killed José in self-defense, but she could offer no reason whatsoever for why they were justified in any way in killing Kitty. It was (and is) indefensible for them to have murdered her too.

[quote] Abramson came up with a plausible reason for why they might have plausibly killed José in self-defense, but she could offer no reason whatsoever for why they were justified in any way in killing Kitty. It was (and is) indefensible for them to have murdered her too.

Just listening to her argue the case, it also seems like everything hinged on Eric being molested, which had nothing to do with Lyle.

So what was his defense for participating In the murder?

Thousands of wealthy L.A. kids had atrocious parenting but they didn't blow their parents' brains out. Jose imposed a value system on his kids. Money was the measure of success. And you could lie cheat and steal to get it. But succeed. Don't get caught. And after one fuck up too many he threatens them. "You're out of the will. It's over. You get nothing." The whole thing was pretty basic. They would have done better letting Shapiro try to make a deal for them. The fact t hat they lied and claimed the mafia probably did it, tells me this had nothing to do with abuse or fear of being killed. It was premeditated. and deliberate.

[quote] Just listening to her argue the case, it also seems like everything hinged on Eric being molested, which had nothing to do with Lyle.

Leslie was Erik's attorney, not Lyle's. That's why co-defendants have separate attorneys. You can be solely focused on your client. Leslie could have outright blamed the whole thing on Lyle, but I'm guessing Erik said no, don't do that.

Thanks for the explanation, R266.

I know nothing about the law and how it works.

Do you know what Lyle's defense was?

I think his defense was that he was abused, sort of like the battered wife defense.

The battered wife defense basically elongates the time you have to act (legally kill) in self-defense. The theory being that, after a protracted period of abuse, there's rarely a time that you ever feel safe. You're always on the defense. It's kill or be killed.

The Barbara Walters interview was excellent.

She really pulled no punches.

Having watched the whole show, it seemed kind of pointless. We’ll never know whether they were abused or made all that up. I can’t say that I have any kind of sympathy for them. They seem like aliens without a lot of real emotion.

FOR FIVE MINUTES!

This is what Ryan Murphy said about the criticism.

Lol at the interview R272.

Ryan Murphy: "We are presenting his (Dominic Dunne's) point of view, just like we're presenting Leslie Abramson's point of view. The show presents over 10 points of view of different events."

From a writing perspective, that's just insane!

Pick a lane, dear.

You drive in ONE LANE, Ryan Murphy. You can't drive in TEN LANES.

No wonder the show seems all over the place, in its storytelling. Because it IS all over the place!

It's evident that the actors really don't understand the story, either.

When the interviewer asked Nicholas Chavez about the "romantic relationship" storyline between Eric and Lyle, she said "Where does that come from?" And Nicholas responded, "That's an interesting question. I don't know."

Rofl. Poor guy.

I think Lyle was the leader, and poor Erik just stupidly fell in line and participated

R273, it’s not insane, in a NINE-HOUR dramatic narrative, to try to represent multiple points of view. Rashomon did it 90 minutes. Robert Altman did throughout his whole career.

And Chavez was smart to elide the “romantic relationship storyline” question as phrased because the show does not portray a romantic relationship between the brothers.

Daddy Menendez remembers his mother diddling his erect penis while he was still in diapers? Seriously.

So many posters seem to have missed the point. The show dramatizes multiple perspectives and the confusing inconsistencies of the story. There were some great performances, a terrific recreation of the era & a for once I don’t have to be funny Vicki Lawrence performance that captured the moment MAGA Karens burst forth.

WAIT...Vicki Lawerence is in this?

Yes, they really got the late 80s/early 90s look down.

I never cared for Milli Vanilli's music but this damn show has got me singing "Girl I'm Gonna Miss You" aaaaaack

Google : Bad intent

do you mean...

“We show all sides” is a cop out. I guess that included Ryan’s incest fantasy among the brothers.

I found it hard to believe that Erik had a sexual relationship with his father from age 6 to 18.

This is the best thing on TV for male eye candy. I almost want to watch it again just to see more of Nicholas Chavez’s muscles.

Bitch stole my act.

[quote] I found it hard to believe that Erik had a sexual relationship with his father from age 6 to 18.

Knowing that sexual abuse exists, what would make this more believable to you? If it was from ages 6 to 12?

If it did happen for 12 years, that is one fucked up family. The mom ignored it and the brother was clueless.

R282 That was one of Dunne's theories at the time. It wasn't pulled out of thin air. There were rumors during the trial that they were hooking up.

Ryan Murphy is not without his problems, but I don’t think he just pulls stuff out of thin air when he does these type of American Crime Story shows. Whatever he shows is based in something, whether it’s a theory, rumor, or conjecture.

R289 Exactly. People seem to think it's one of Murphy's incest fantasies when it's actually based on rumors/theories that were circulating at the time.

[quote] Ryan Murphy is not without his problems, but I don’t think he just pulls stuff out of thin air when he does these type of American Crime Story shows. Whatever he shows is based in something, whether it’s a theory, rumor, or conjecture.

But he liked it.

He LIKED it!

All that dirty touchin'.

R290, give me a break. There were no theories “floating around.” There was one juror during the first case who brought up the possibility of an incestuous relationship between them and it was shot down. Nobody bought it. There was nothing else in any news articles, nor in any of the hundred books written about the boys and the case. And nobody was on the streets or at the water cooler during these trials gossiping about the Menendez brothers having a romantic relationship.

I liked the series and I like Ryan Murphy, but I can also see that the brotherly incest angle is a figment of Ryan’s sexualized imagination because he wanted to see these two actors in a romantic entanglement. That’s all there is to it. It was the next best thing to having them fuck on his bed while he watched.

"Aunt and Cousin Share Disturbing Signs of Menendez Brothers’ Abuse."

This is very convincing.

^^^^^

Holy crap, that "lemon story" is crazy.

R285 that pose is an homage to Gosling

R292 I have seen several comments from people who followed the trial saying there were rumors they were hooking up. Some people obviously gossiped about it, and it wasn't just Dunne. It's probably both though, Murphy wanted the incest angle because it's a fantasy, but also because it was rumored/gossiped about.

How was this photo not a red flag to anyone?

Lyle looks absolutely miserable.

R293, no, it isn't. Both women come across as nuts. And the cousin changed her story on the stand, the prosecutors made her look like a liar

R297, lots of kids look miserable in family photos

[quote] Both women come across as nuts. And the cousin changed her story on the stand, the prosecutors made her look like a liar

That's their job.

But it doesn't mean that these women weren't telling the truth.

These are firsthand accounts of what they saw happening in the Menendez household.

You weren't there, and you're expecting people to believe you.

But these women WERE there, and you're expecting people NOT to believe them.

Reconcile that, asshole.

[quote] R297, lots of kids look miserable in family photos

Keep defending the pedophile, R299.

But focus your creepy eyes on where Jose's hand is at on Lyle's body.

That is NOT normal. That is telling behavior.

These two men were telling the truth on the stand.

They were molested as children.

That's a fact.

Another great article.

R300 I have read that a letter from their cousin resurfaced, where Lyle (or was it Erik?) detailed the abuse. There is also the Menudo member who has come forward about being molested by Jose. Shouldn't this be enough for a new trial?

R291 she NEVER said coming all over me.

Blasphemer!

R302, the letter is bullshit. That's why Erik never mentioned it at trial, and neither did the cousin

R300, just because they were there doesn't mean they are incapable of lying. Watch the trial footage. The prosecutors did a great job calling out the cousin on her inconsistencies

I watched all the episodes and all I can say I Javier Bardem can fuck the living shit out of me anytime he wants to.

I never realized how irritating it is to get mic'ed up and ready to do a television interview.

Barbara was very annoying.

I wonder if Eric or Lyle wanted to kill her at that moment?

That photo at R297 is weird. Dad with hand grabbing Lyle's entire crotch for a PHOTO.

R305, I recommend watching a movie called Jamón, Jamón, with Bardem and PenPen Cruz. He really fills out a bikini brief.

So no Lyle nudity in the movie?

R300 frau for brains ...fact.

R307, he isn't grabbing his crotch. But I guess people see what they want to see.

I'm starting episode 7. I hope Javier Bardem and Nathan Lane win something for this.

Based on the mixed public and critical reception, I would be surprised if it was nominated for anything.

the one episode where it is just Eric being interviewed by Leslie looked like one long shot, no edits. If it was that is fucking impressive. He should get an emmy nod.

FOR FIVE MINUTES!

[QUOTE] Based on the mixed public and critical reception, I would be surprised if it was nominated for anything.

If they removed the incest stuff and tightened other shit, this could’ve been an award-winning creation. It feels like Netflix took off Ryan Murphy’s guardrails and let him maximize the trashiness. There should’ve been a team of pros who came in and cleaned up the mess during post-production.

R313 Coooer Koch should get one for episode 5.

R314 It was all done in one take.

[quote]It feels like Netflix took off Ryan Murphy’s guardrails and let him maximize the trashiness.

Excuse me but the whole goddamn Menendez saga IRL was trashy AF.

God love you r316 for thinking there was any way to make this story "tasteful." 😂😂😂

The court testimony scenes were verbatim from the actual trial.

The brothers’ pathos well illustrate that they were both mini-sociopaths, essentially rendering them as 2 chips off the old block.

I 100% believe they were sexually & physically abused by their parents. I also believe that they figured killing them both in order to free themselves up from them, while simultaneously inheriting the estate, was a solid option & opportunity, when sizing up that they had little to lose.

And… they were correct when they hedged their bets, because had they not broken under pressure, they likely would’ve gotten away with it.

Either way, they’ve been locked up long enough. Justice has already been served, & I see no reason to keep them incarcerated.

That POS psychiatrist got up on the witness stand and testified against them.

The death scene of Dominique Dunne was not something I was expecting. Ryan Murphy is really going for shock value with this trashy show. I'm addicted.

[QUOTE] Either way, they’ve been locked up long enough. Justice has already been served, & I see no reason to keep them incarcerated.

No reason to keep them incarcerated? And what happens, after being released, the next time they get in a jam involving another human being? Might they decide murder is once again a “solid option and opportunity”? They haven’t even expressed any real remorse for the crimes they committed. Why wouldn’t they do it again?

They’ve been spared the death penalty and now they’re serving in the same prison together. That’s enough leeway as far as I’m concerned. Let them rot in there for the rest of their lives. If you can kill in cold blood once, you can do it again. And if you can shotgun your own parents to death, including coming back to finish the job when you saw one was still breathing, then there’s no limit to what you’re capable of doing. We’ve got enough psychos walking the streets.

So why didn't neighbors hear the gunshots? I know they were in a Beverly Hills mansion with a fair amount of land between each residence, but still.

They heard gunshots but didn't recognize them as gunshots...they live in Beverly Hills, they're not used to gunfire

Unless your name is Rose Niland, why wouldn't an adult recognize them as gunshots?

R327 Because the gunshots were fired inside the walls of the Mendendez mansion. Because by the time the noise traveled through the mansion walls and could be heard by the nearest adjacent neighbors -- inside the walls of their own mansions, each set on large lots and with various fences, walls and foliage separating the properties -- the shots were reported by some to sound more like a rapid succession of fireworks. That's why.

I actually thought someone had just farted, like some really wet farts. Maybe they had eaten a lot of Mexican food for dinner?

[quote]No reason to keep them incarcerated? And what happens, after being released, the next time they get in a jam involving another human being?

Umm....because they fucking WON'T?

Theres money to be madem baby

[quote]Unless your name is Rose Niland, why wouldn't an adult recognize them as gunshots?

Because none of the FUCKING BEVERLY HILLS NEIGHBORS regognized them as gunshots?

It was a different time and place.

Neighbors? In 12 years in Los Angeles, have you ever seen a neighbor?

Why did Eric take these photos?

The houses were right next to each other.

Has your prisspot ass never heard multiple gunshots?

Michael Franzese on Being Locked Up with Menendez Brothers

I binged the series this past weekend and I thought it was mostly good. Cooper Koch stood out from a mostly great cast, though I couldn’t stop seeing a young James Franco from certain angles. That fifth episode, the static shot dialogue between Koch’s Erik and the lawyer, was a bold move and one that payed off.

He didn’t overplay it, his body did as much of the acting as his voice and face did. About five minutes in I wondered if they were going to be brave enough to let the scene go where it wanted and not cut away. The simple, raw set up of that shot, with the almost imperceptibly slow tightening of the frame on Koch’s face only works if the material is good and the director really trusts the actor. That directorial choice was perfect for that part of the story and portraying the feelings of the character and I predict it will get Koch a lot of serious roles if he wants them.

There were some rough spots, sure, but I understand what Murphy was trying to do. Roshamon-like replaying of scenes reflecting the beliefs of different narrators was harder to follow than a traditional storyline but very effectively positions the viewer in the place Murphy wants them, unsure of what the truth is. Even in the last scene, we’re presented with an Erik who seems to be the instigator, counter to most of what we’ve heard and seen previously.

I believe the Dominic Dunne character was a lazy addition. He is an easy, and gossipy, way for the viewer to hear the rumors that swirled around the case but which weren’t presented in court. Lazy perhaps, but it is fitting that a society gossip maven like Dunne gives us a insider account of private gossip as well as taste of public opinion at the time, namely that people were tired of the case by 1996 and their thirst for celebrity court cases had just been more than slaked by the OJ trial eight months before.

Some of it was a slog, it probably could have been shorter, but it told the story artfully.

Watching. Was working my tail off when the actual event happened, but I remember headlines. Interesting to fill in some of the blanks. Javier Badem is good as Jose Menendez. Prosthetics/ make-up on several characters seems amateur.

[quote] Even in the last scene, we’re presented with an Erik who seems to be the instigator, counter to most of what we’ve heard and seen previously.

Watch the Franzese interview at R335.

He was locked up with Lyle and Eric and became close with them.

He seems to think that it was all Lyle's idea, and that Eric was just some broken little "puppy dog" who was controlled by Lyle.

I didn't get that impression from the stories I've read. But if he could fool a mob boss into thinking that he's innocent, then he must be a really good scam artist.

r336blahblahblhblahblh

tl'dr

Darlling

r336 = poisoned dragon.

r333 He was paid

[quote]I believe the Dominic Dunne character was a lazy addition.

Hey baby you can't have a high class scandal without Dominick Dunne. It was what what it was.

Poisoned Dragon is a shitty ass writer, so I doubt R336 is him/her/it.

R333 I have a hard time believing he's not gay after seeing those pics. I know he denies being gay, and is married to a woman, but still...

R280 Hell yeah. Why did I download that first record after watching that episode? I think I liked shitty pop music back then and all came rushing back to me thanks to Ryan Murphy.

^ wearing a prosthetic

[quote] Unless your name is Rose Niland

Who?!

Shit Ryan Murphy ignored because he went for titillation instead of facts.

trow-ma!

R348 DOLT. Google: DRAMA vs DOCUMENTARY

R350 Exactly. If people want something that's 100 % accurate they can always watch one of the dozens of documentaries already existing about the case. Apparently there will be a new documentary about the case on Netflix in a few weeks.

Ryan Murphy should’ve just made his own separate mini-series where Nicholas Chavez and Cooper Koch are gay lovers in the 80s-90s from rich families who murder their parents, live it up on their dime, get arrested and use their traumatized childhoods from abusive fathers as a defense during trial. He could’ve styled it after the Menendez case without actually using their names and without any incest. And we could’ve seen Chavez and Koch fuck—multiple times. You get a real gay crime thriller without the controversy. Everybody wins.

Bad case of : Innocent Victims Face

R352, I'm not sure if you're entirely serious, but regardless, I think your concept is an excellent one and would have no doubt resulted in a movie far more satisfying that this one is reported to be.

"ranker.com"

Really?

I'm so tired of the constant barrage of stories, articles, books about all things Dune. Didn't Griffin just write another book on his childhood? Can everyone just shut up about these people. They really made no contribution to anything.

R352 True, but the brother incest was kinda hot (not the abuse though). It got people talking too, which is what Ryan Murphy wanted. His goal was to be controversial and shocking. Also, I question whether those scenes were even written, or were they both improvised? I mean the party dancing scene. And then the kiss. Cooper Koch is seen breaking character after the kiss. He starts smiling.

[quote] Ryan Murphy should’ve just made his own separate mini-series where Nicholas Chavez and Cooper Koch are gay lovers in the 80s-90s from rich families who murder their parents, live it up on their dime, get arrested and use their traumatized childhoods from abusive fathers as a defense during trial.

[quote] R352, I'm not sure if you're entirely serious, but regardless, I think your concept is an excellent one and would have no doubt resulted in a movie far more satisfying that this one is reported to be.

Interestingly, Erik Menendez wrote a script in high school that played out EXACTLY as the murders of his parents.

It's called "Friends."

He co-wrote it with his best friend from school who turned him in, Craig Cignarelli.

Ryan Murphy should have bought the rights to the screenplay, and adapted it for Netflix.

[bold]Craig Cignarelli, Erik's friend and classmate at Calabasas High School, in Calabasas, California, said they wrote "Friends" together.

“I remember talking about the opening scene, in just the idea of, ‘We need to establish a crime. We need to have the protagonist gain an inheritance so he can actually fulfill his dream of creating this hunting ground for humans,’” Cignarelli told ABC News.

In that scene, the main character, Hamilton Cromwell, is described as a “sophisticated, good-looking” 18-year-old reading about the inheritance his father intended to leave him in his will. On a typed page about next scene, Erik included a handwritten note that said Hamilton is “immensely psychotic and extremely anxious to obtain his inheritance. A character worthy of Jekyll and Hyde.”

The Hamilton character then kills his parents in the next scene: “A gloved hand is seen gripping the doorknob and turning it gently. The door opens, exposing the luxurious sight of Mr. and Mrs. Cromwell lying in bed. Their faces are of questioning horror as Hamilton closes the door behind them, gently saying, ‘Good evening, mother. Good evening, father.’"Cignarelli said he and Erik wrote the killing scene as a way for their main character to come in to money.

“I guess there’s three ways to do it: You’re either going to win the lottery, you’re going to work very, very hard for one year and from 18 to 19, you’re going to earn $100 million, or you’re going to have to find a way to inherit it,” Cignarelli said. “And for us, the only option aside from winning the lottery, realistically, was to do an inheritance, and so we set that as the basic scene.”

On Aug. 20, 1989, the Menendez brothers opened fire on their wealthy parents inside the family’s Beverly Hills mansion, using shotguns they had bought just days before the murders. Prosecutors argued that Lyle and Erik were motivated by greed because they wanted to inherit the family fortune.

Cignarelli remarked on the screenplay's similarity to how the murders were carried out.

“The opening scene happened to coincide with what happened on the night of the murders,” Cignarelli said.[/bold]

R358 Is this the Craig that Erik was hooking up with? Did that actually happen in real life? Ot was that just another figment of imagination from Ryan Murphy?

Probably, R359.

Cignarelli seemed to be in love with Eric, but he still reported him to the police.

Coooper Koch speaks out about the criticism:

[Quote]“I sympathize with him, I empathize with him. I get it. I understand how difficult it would be to have the worst part of your life be televised for millions of people to see. It’s so exposing. I understand how he feels and I stand by him. In terms of approaching him and approaching the part, I just really wanted to do as much research and dig really deep into myself to really portray him with integrity and just be as authentic as possible to support him and also to support his family and all the people who stand with him.”

r361 "I just really wanted to do as much research and dig really deep into myself to really portray him with integrity and just be as authentic as possible to support him and also to support his family and all the people who stand with him.”"

Sure, Jan

R362 He also commented on the brothers' incestuous relationship:

[Quote]“I knew that this was a very controversial story, and that people were going to be upset and affected by what they were seeing. I think though you do have to put it into context of the situation, and that we’re sort of painting a picture based on what somebody else’s perspective was. It’s not necessarily the truth of what happened. That’s just what Dominick Dunne thinks and there I think are other places in the story where it’s sort of planted to give people all of these different perspectives and you know.”

[QUOTE] I'm not sure if you're entirely serious, but regardless, I think your concept is an excellent one and would have no doubt resulted in a movie far more satisfying that this one is reported to be.

I’m deathly serious. I’ve been thinking for a while now how much better this could be if Murphy stripped away the Menendez name and made something similar but different.

[QUOTE] Ryan Murphy should have bought the rights to the screenplay, and adapted it for Netflix.

Yes, R358. You’re spot on. But..

[QUOTE] True, but the brother incest was kinda hot (not the abuse though). It got people talking too, which is what Ryan Murphy wanted. His goal was to be controversial and shocking.

R357 hits the nail on the head. It had to be this way so Murphy could clout chase the Menendez name. He welcomes the controversy. He welcomed the fury from the Menendez fan base. He welcomes the upcoming documentary which will help fuel continued interest in Monsters. In the end, this is just the way Ryan Murphy wanted it.

I was a grad student at Princeton when Lyle was arrested. I remember the week before there was a big story about him on the front page of [italic]The Princetonian.[/italic] It was all about how he was going to buy a small buffalo-wings restaurant near campus called Mr. Buffalo and turn it into a nation -wide chain thanks to the money he had just inherited when his parents were mysteriously killed a few weeks before by mobsters. I remember thinking at the time, "Mobsters? Well, of course he must have killed him himself to get the money for this"; and sure enough, a week later he and Erik were arrested.

He was not nearly so handsome as Nicholas Chavez was, and since he was bald and wore cheap wigs to cover it up, it always looked awful.

R365, what did people on campus think about him?

[quote] [R365], what did people on campus think about him?

It was my first year there, and I was a grad student, so I didn't know his reputation among the undergraduates then. I know the other grad students and I talked about the newspaper story and agreed he probably did it. We were astonished he thought the buffalo wings shop in town was so good that he wanted to make a chain out of it--it was just okay.

Later I found out from undergrads who knew of him that he was considered a creepy jock (though that described a full third of the boys at Princeton), and that he had been in trouble before for plagiarism.

^ Thanks for the dish!

It's a weird show. Making a point of their awful taste in 80s pop music (as if it were indicative of why they became killers) makes it seem quite a lot like "American Psycho."

One more thing: The buffalo wings cafe was on Spring Street, and was called Chuck's. Lyle said he was going to re-name it "Mr. Buffalo" after he bought it and wanted to turn it into a chain.

Also; The murders were in the late summer, and the brothers were arrested in the fall semester.

It was a weird time to be at Princeton, because I think that was also the year a drunken undergraduate boy climbed up one night on top of the "Dinky" (the small train that ran between Princeton and Princeton Junction, from where you would catch the Amtrak to NYC), and the charge of the transformer on top of the train car electrified him and nearly killed him.Ii think he lost three of his limbs in the accident--it was really horrible. Then he recovered and came back and successfully sued the train company, even though he had been so shit-faced that he done something so stupid. The undergraduate students were always getting ridiculously drunk, though that was the worst thing that happened to one of them i think while I was there.

The rest of my time there did not have nearly so many dramatic events.

Here's the link to the triple amputee that was electrocuted.

There must be hours and hours of Nicholas and Cooper naked. Ryan probably never leaves his house.

Agreed, R369, a lot of Monsters reminded me of American Psycho. In a good way. I enjoy watching anything that shows the trashy excesses of the 1980s. And to be honest, I could watch Nicholas Chavez read the phone book - that is one smoking hot hunk of man.

[QUOTE] There must be hours and hours of Nicholas and Cooper naked. Ryan probably never leaves his house.

I always wondered if producers and directors purposely film shit they know won’t make it just so they can keep the footage as apart of their private cutting room collection. Like what if the Erik and Lyle shower scene was far longer and more raunchy when originally shot and we only saw the toned down version?

That shower scene was hot! So was the pool scenes, weightlifting scenes, etc...

[quote] dig really deep into myself

I would like to dig really deep into him too.

Interesting how the straight actor is always Ryan Murphy's new muse and not the gay one.

[quote] We were astonished he thought the buffalo wings shop in town was so good that he wanted to make a chain out of it--it was just okay.

Bad taste. They couldn't even pick the best Milli Vanilli song for their parents' funeral.

Apoligists feast your pervy eyes..

Bon appetit

It's raining menendez

Papi taught me hoe to play drop the soap.

^ Erik's prison friend is HOT

Why isn't he wearing a bath cap to keep his wig dry? More damn Murphy inaccuracies.

Take my wife's life please!

R381 Diddy?

I thought the song they played during the memorial was actually true. Now I find out it's taken from a book that is mostly just made up of lies and rumors. It would have been so funny and crazy if it was true.

Real ass. Fake cock.

R387 frau brain fart

If looks could kill

Bros before Hoes

Kiss me deadly.

R388 I actually thought it was real. The one when he's soaping it in anyway. I assumed the boner was a prosthetic.

Yikes... this is bad.

[Quote]Erik and Lyle Menendez’s family slams Ryan Murphy and his ‘Monsters’ series in new statement: “a phobic, gross, anachronistic, serial episodic nightmare… Our family has been victimized by this grotesque shockadrama. […] Perhaps, after all, Monsters is all about Ryan Murphy.”

That queer Nicholas Alexander Chavez said he kept rubbing one out during filming.

R393 been a long time since you've see one hun?

R384 Lyle's 6 pack. More Murphy inaccuracies.

R394 so they didn't get a percentage of the gross.... Yikes!

I don't get the brouhaha except that the public is incapable of understanding the narrative techniques of the series. The brother incest is just a throwaway.

And the brothers argued through the first trial their father was a monster. Convincingly. The series shows the father as a monster. Now they are saying the series is a travesty. You can't have it both ways, boys.

If those brothers might have touched each other tenderly a couple times, who cares. They were living a nightmare of cruelty.

Nathan Lane is so tone-deaf.

[Quote]“You know, he hasn’t seen the show. He’s Just criticizing it and condemning it without ever having seen it, so one has to take that with a grain of salt. Obviously, to have your life portrayed this way in a Netflix miniseries … he wasn’t one of the producers, so not everything might be flattering or make you happy. But I would say you should probably see it before you speak out again.”

R396 yes... lol.

R400, what's tone deaf about that? He's right.

In today's media zeitgeist, fine distinctions are completely irrelevant. Monsters: The Lyle and Erik Menendez Story is totally about brother fucking, because it says so online. Armie Hammer is a cannibal. Aliens from "Haitia" are eating our cats and dogs.

Damn, that actor playing the Menendez brother in the shower scene clip at R382 has a nice, big, beautiful one!

All actors these days wear prosthetics or have AI generated schlongs. It's written into their contracts. If you've actually seen or have a real cock ,you can spot faux dick easily. Only lumpen femcel fraus are duped. '

The prosthetic give away is a big bush (to hide where they attached everything) and the actor doesn’t move around a lot in the scene.

Was everyone who wrote or cast the show gay?

So the father fucked the boys as toddlers and after OMG! I didn’t know their back story just that they wanted parents money.

R394, they're grifters who defend murderers. Who cares what they think?

Was Aaron Taylor-Johnson's springy extra long noodle cock bouncing around in that fight scene a rubber cock?

I'm supposed to feel sorry that parent-murderers are being portrayed as gay?

[quote] R76, it's kind of depressing how this show (and the Law and Order: True Crime one) just take them at the word and assumes they were telling the truth about everything. Like the abuse and [bold]that shit about Lyle's toupee getting ripped off[/bold] which Erik probably just made up

But that's by far the campiest moment of both this miniseries and of the first miniseries with Jill Clayburgh as Kitty.

Surely you don't mean that should have been left out of either version?? The point of these shows is to entertain, not to document--these are not documentaries.

R405, You mean to tell me that wasn't Affleck's real cock in Gone Girl?

[quote]Apoligists

Oh, dear.

Is this a Ryan Murphy production, or a TEENAGE BROTHEL???!!!

Apparently the incesutous relationship was entirely made up.

[quote] Apparently the incesutous relationship was entirely made up.

Yeah, but at least Ryan Murphy has hours of jerk off material on film!

He'll be able to watch it for years to cum.

[QUOTE] But that's by far the campiest moment of both this miniseries and of the first miniseries with Jill Clayburgh as Kitty.

I honestly was losing interest until Kitty ripped the toupee off. I was like “Oh shit 😮” and couldn’t stop watching after that. It was one of the most shocking moments I’ve ever witnessed on television. I’m not sure I would’ve stuck it through if not for that scene.

"Cast of ‘Monsters’ talk Lyle and Erik Menendez series, controversy"

The boys look so cute!

Nicholas is adorable at R419.

I can't believe he's wearing those mom jeans with that coat!

He has GOT to be straight, because he's dressed horribly.

But that face...

It was every gay man's dream of what prison would be.

There is no such thing as BAD PUBLICITY.

I'm still confused about whether the parents were asleep on the couch when the brothers killed them or eating ice cream.

On the couch.

I think Jose was asleep, given the position of his body. Not sure about Kitty

Were there bowls and spoons scattered around the den?

Yes, whipped cream, syrup, chopped nuts, and maraschino cherries as well.

No one has mentioned that in the prison shower scene, Erik goes through a transformation of sorts. At first, he looks terrified that the other prisoner is going to attack him or abuse him. After a few moments, he seems resigned that the liaison is unavoidable, so his demeanor changes. He becomes a little temptress, smiling a bit, fluffing himself up, and flirting with his eyes. I'm guessing that when his father would abuse him, Erik would fight back or say no but ultimately would give in and let it happen. Part of Erik's guilt about the sessions with his father was that, as an adolescent, he would cum, implying that he liked it. That he found hard to reconcile. Was he gay or not?

[quote] It was every gay man's dream of what prison would be.

And Kitty ripping off Lyle's wig is every gay man's fantasy of what a bad mother would be!

[quote] That he found hard to reconcile. Was he gay or not?

It was on television, so as Donald Trump says, it must be so! No lies are ever told on television.

R430 The fact that he would cum during his sessions with his father and that he questioned whether he was gay or not are from the actual recorded court testimony, not the series.

[quote] Part of Erik's guilt about the sessions with his father was that, as an adolescent, he would cum, implying that he liked it.

This was part of a storyline on Law & Order: SVU.

The defense attorney was trying to argue that a woman who was raped, actually liked it because she had an orgasm.

I'm not sure how the case ended, though. Anyone else know how that episode was resolved?

I watched that, R431. The actual footage from the real trial.

It was heartbreaking.

The parents didn’t deserve their fate, AND I believe that they were monsters to their two sons, which is why the two boys also became monsters, & saw blowing their heads off as a solution to their problem.

A horrific story, all the way around.

r416 Yes, we knew that

Erik liked the sex with Jose and was a generous and talented bottom. I knew for years but said nothing. - Kitty the Ghost

All this discussion and no one has verified either sizemeat or stanksleeve status.

[quote]Erik goes through a transformation of sorts. At first, he looks terrified that the other prisoner is going to attack him or abuse him. After a few moments, he seems resigned that the liaison is unavoidable, so his demeanor changes. He becomes a little temptress, smiling a bit, fluffing himself up, and flirting with his eyes.

Jesus fucking Christ, R428. You're a special kind of tard.

Coch is very hot, and the better actor, but FUCK, Chavez is just BEYOND. That body, god damn!

Koch and Chavez are both gorgeous. Chavez especially.

Jesus Christ, [italic]I[/italic] can do a better Zsa Zsa Gabor impersonation than whoever they got to play her.

Has anybody noticed that the font / typeface and color scheme of this mini-series (OP's photo) is the same as Data Lounge's font and color scheme?

R428 He thought he was gay but now denies being gay and is married to a woman. Lyle is the one who had the prison lover back in 2014 according to radaronline. He is married to a woman too though. My guess is Lyle is bi and Erik is straight.

My guess is that Lyle is more sex-driven, hence, took a prison lover. Between the two, Erik pings more, even though he never took a prison lover.

R443 I was very surprised to find out Lyle was the one with a prison lover because I agree that Erik pings more. Erik was the one questioned about his sexuality during the trial and there must be a reason for it.

[Quote]Coch is very hot, and the better actor

At least you acknowledge this. Thank you. They were both good, but Coch was outstanding. Stunning performance in episode 5.

Why does Cooper Koch gets a full frontal and Nicholas Chavez doesn't? Unfair! Time to picket!

R436 Just check out twitter. It's there.

It's all so debauched and glamorous. Married guys taking prison lovers. New lovers and spurned lover with each change of prison or prison block. Like La Ronde. "Erik, I've taken a new lover. You simply must take a lover as well, beloved brother."

[quote] Erik was the one questioned about his sexuality during the trial and there must be a reason for it.

Yeah.

The reason is that his father has been having gay sex with Erik since he was 6 years old.

Crazy, isn't it, that he might have thought he was gay?

R449 But the dad also had sex with Lyle yet Lyle wasn't asked about his sexuality.

I haven't crushed this hard on an actor since I was a child and saw Jason Bateman on Valerie, and realised that I liked boys more than girls.

My next major celebrity crush was Ian Thorpe at the 2000 Olympics.

At 41, I'm feeling like a giddy teenager all over again every time I look at Nicholas Chavez. That body. Those eyes. Those lips. I'm getting hard just thinking about him.

[quote] But the dad also had sex with Lyle yet Lyle wasn't asked about his sexuality.

Juan Menendez stopped having sex with Lyle at 8 years old, according to court documents. He wasn't an adolescent capable of being sexually stimulated by the experience. So he probably didn't question his sexuality, since it wasn't sexual for him.

With Erik, the sex continued well into his teens, and high school. And then after he reached puberty, he was having orgasms from the experience. And that's what made him question his sexuality.

So there was definitely a difference between the two brothers, when it came to the sexual abuse.

Which is weird, because also in court testimony, Erik said that his father told him "Why can't you be more like Lyle?" Which he said was because Lyle "didn't cry" during the experience. But Erik did cry.

So you would think that Jose would set his sights on Lyle. But for whatever reason, he preferred Erik.

The whole thing is so twisted, I can't even wrap my mind around it.

In this interview, Nicholas seems very cold and somewhat distant.

I don't know what it is about him, but he's definitely not "warm and fuzzy" like Cooper.

His answers are very robotic.

Interestingly, in the comments section people are saying that he would be a perfect Patrick Bateman in a remake of "American Psycho." So others must be getting the same vibe from him.

Dip?

Bro ya got cum on your face.

Killing in red .

Deadly whities

Chavez has an ego that’s out of control. He was pissed that he wasn’t the center of attention during that Today Show interview, thus his coldness. Ask the folks at GH- he turned into an asshole there. They don’t miss him.

R458 he's an ass

R458 There's also a controversy on Twitter about him sleeping around and cheating. Don't know if it's true, but it's what the girl who claims to be his ex girlfriend said. She said he slept with half the city lol (women only btw).

R453 I'm glad Cooper is the gay one. He seems so sweet and nice. No big ego on him, unlike NAC.

R452 I think he set his eyes on Erik when he got bored with Lyle because Erik was the quiet, shy and sensitive one. He probably figured he was easier to manipulate. Lyle was probably more masculine, hence why he asked Erik why he couldn't be more like Lyle.

R48 Nailed it. He's pissed Cooper is getting all the attention. Cooper is praised for his performance. Nick too, although not as often and as much as Cooper. Everyone is praising Cooper for his performance in episode 5. Not only that, but Cooper's character Erik was less controversial than Nick's character Lyle. Everyone is saying Lyle is portrayed as a complete OTT charicature. Last but not least everyone is asking Cooper about visiting Lyle and Erik in prison. All of this combined is definitely getting to him. He is pissed Cooper is getting recognized and praised instead of him. People are talking about an Emmy for Cooper for episode 5. No such chatter for NAC, only that he was "good".

Daddy Menendez was supposedly so domineering and abusive, yet all it took was for Lyle to say, "Daddy please stop" and just like that he stopped? And then moved onto Erik because Lyle simply asked him to stop? So then why didn't Erik simply ask Daddy to stop too? Lyle should've said to Erik, "Just tell him to stop! That's what I did and he stopped."

But no. We're supposed to believe that Erik got it for twelve more years, even into adulthood.

This is live audio of Erik’s testimony where he explained his story.

[quote]He's pissed Cooper is getting all the attention.

I don't agree. He may be ticked off that people don't know the difference between "based on a true story" and "documentary." He said in that interview that, as an actor, he takes a part and then leaves that character behind to move on to the next one. He's not the type to visit prisons and take on causes. And he's not going to take a controversial stand like, "I believe the killer," as Cooper has.

Lol at the comments here. Everyone is hating on NAC but loving Cooper. I have to agree with them, NAC does look annoyed and pissed off for some reason. He seems very cold and stand-offish. Cooper comes across much better, sweet and warm and kind.

So far I find it brutal although compelling. I definitely believe they were abused. But there were other ways to address that abuse than blow their parents heads off- understatement.

Here is NAC's ex girlfriend. NAC comes across like your typical toxic straight fuckboy.

I should say she claims to be his ex girlfriend. Don't know if it's true.

Lol at the comments here.

She doesn't name him, but it's kinda obvious it's him, isn't it?

[quote]Coch is very hot, and the better actor

[quote]They were both good, but Coch was outstanding. Stunning performance in episode 5.

If you two love him so much, can't you learn to spell his name right, for Christ's sake? I've never seen "Coch" as the correct spelling of that name.

They want his last name to be "Cock," of course, which explains the misspellings.

A young good looking guy is dating around. I’m shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

I hope Chavez has been watching Bardem closely while they've been on the press tour. Like Chavez, Bardem got his start mostly by being hunky eye candy, but he had genuine talent and is incredibly professional, and so he's had a long career even though he's not nearly as beautiful as he was thirty-five years ago.

Chavez isincreidbly gorgeous now, but so was Antonio Sabato, Jr., at his age, and now look where he is. He did not develop as an actor and has behaved badly with the press--no one wants to work with him.

Age is a monstrous leveler for the beautiful. You have to have more to offer than just a pretty face and sculpted abs if you want to sustain a career.

R449, most guys who were molested aren't gay and don't think they are. Thanks for reinforcing "Being molested makes you turn gay!" stereotypes

R452, maybe the reason you can't wrap your mind around it is because it didn't happen and they made it all up to get pity from gullible suckers

[quote] most guys who were molested aren't gay and don't think they are. Thanks for reinforcing "Being molested makes you turn gay!

You're a goddamned idiot.

Erik actually TESTIFIED IN COURT that he thought he might be gay because he experienced an orgasm while being molested by his father.

It really fucking ANGERS ME when people shout at and hurl insults at others, even though they are COMPLETELY WRONG.

You need to sit the fuck down, and shut the fuck up, you moron.

WTF is up with NAC? That was a horrible answer. I was cringing the entire time watching it.

[QUOTE] I hope Chavez has been watching Bardem closely while they've been on the press tour.

He can watch him like a hawk, he’s not going to be anything close to Javier Bardem.

[QUOTE] Chavez is incredibly gorgeous now, but so was Antonio Sabato, Jr.

Now you’re getting warmer.

The FUCKING MORON at r479 seems to think that if Erik said it, it must be true. Even though precious Erik was caught telling multiple lies on the stand

Why are you so keen to believe everything a murderer says? Do you honestly believe someone who is on trial for murder and facing the death penalty wouldn't tell lies to be seen as sympathetic or less responsible for his actions?

I can confirm that sexual abuse on a child or teenager is very confusing for the victim. You are being taught about sex (usually non-verbally) before you even know what sex is and you don't have any power. It's very common for victims to later jerk off to or fantasize about their perpetrator, because it ends up being your first sexual relationship, as awful as that sounds/is. I think on balance, this show will hopefully do some good to make sure people understand the long-term damage of sexual abuse within a family.

r479 " It really fucking ANGERS ME when people shout at and hurl insults at others, even though they are COMPLETELY WRONG. You need to sit the fuck down, and shut the fuck up, you moron. "

Go back and calmly read your own post. Recognize the hypocrisy?

Another great interview today where Cooper comes across as a total sweetheart and NAC a real asshole. Somehow I think this is actually who they are. BTW, Cooper confirms episode 5 was done in one shot which is very impressive.

Koch comes across as thirsty and a little too needy in these interviews. Pick me! Pick me! I think it’s a bad strategy to to proclaim innocence for either brother, regardless of the horrible circumstances. I also think it’s a bit much to go traveling to prisons with Kim Kardashian. NAC is smart to not put himself on record related to anything other than the show and the performance.

Does he want to be a serious actor or an Only Fans model?

Nicholas Chavez sounds like a child, trying to be smart.

He comes across as a pseudo-intellectual, always analyzing every little thing about his performance, down to the last detail.

It's exhausting and pretentious.

Cooper is far more natural and at-ease with himself.

Nicholas is trying way too hard.

R486 LOL. You must be a NAC stan because you couldn't be more wrong. Cooper comes across as warm and sweet and personable, everyone is saying so in the comments. Meanwhile NAC comes across as cold, arrogant and stand-offish. He has a horrible attitude.

I think NAC is hiding his anxiety with these short answers. Nothing wrong with that at this phase of his career.

No, I’m not a NAC stan. I’m just more in line with his approach in these interviews than Koch’s approach. NAC does seem a little standoffish, which I think comes from caution and maybe a little bit of nerves, but Koch is doing the exact opposite and it’s too much. The people who are calling Koch warm and sweet will use that against him at some point in the future. We’ve been down this road before with newcomers over sharing.

BERKING: FRAU INFESTATION.

I have read some stuff about NAC which isn't good. Nothing too bad, but not exactly great either. People who worked with him on the GH set claimed he was an asshole with a huge ego and then you have those tiktoks. I have a feeling this is just the tip of the iceberg with him, considering his recent attitude in interviews. Meanwhile this is what a person said it was like working with Cooper.

[Quote]Honestly one of the nicest actors I’ve ever worked with. There’s a reason his nickname was Super Coop on set🥹

[Quote]And his costar couldn’t be more bored looking. NAC seems to have had a personality change since his GH days.

Lol. It's funny because it's true.

Am I the only one who thinks that NAC's speedo is padded? See the Tumblr at R454. I'm guessing that NAC did not do any nude scenes because there's nothing to see.

NAC has signed.with a talent agency so he must be doing something right.

R495 Do we know if Cooper was wearing a prosthetic or not?

He was rubbing a piece of rubber. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Was there any evidence Jose ever hooked up with rent boys?

NAC is a total asshole. In a year, he’ll be a nobody again.

R500 Yup.

Up to episode 7 and everyone is killing it (no pun intended) in the acting. The kids. Bardem, Chloe, even Nathan Lane is bringing it.

Raft of the Medusa

Trying hard to look as butch Bradley Cooper ..super duper

The family that bathes together stays together.

"Even Nathan Lane"? Only on DL.

I also want José's rentboy inside me. Quite deeply.

R464 is a common story in family incest. The older child will be intimidated by the threat of "I will just go to your sister/brother" and they fear for their safety. It is confusing that Lyle would not think he would do it to Eric.

NAC got performer of the week. I think Cooper was better, especially in episode 5. Oh well...

The difference between Koch and Chavez in interviews about this series might be that Koch is openly gay and Chavez is definitely straight. Chavez might not want to be typecast in gay/adjacent roles and wants to be a movie heartthrob in straight romance roles. He would want to keep it low key and not be excited about the role in interviews. Koch has nothing to lose because he probably knows he’s not going to be the next Brad Pitt.

Erik praised Cooper's performance in episode 5 when they talked in prison.

Oh no! The coveted tvline.com performer of the week!

The long single shot scene in Season 5 is fine, and solved the problem of how to dramatize the narrative of Jose's long sexual abuse of Erik in considerable detail by pointedly NOT showing it, and just have Erik narrate it to Abramson. Cooper Koch is absolutely fine in this scene but it's not the bravura piece of acting I think people are claiming it to be. It seemed like a filmed scene from a play, and i kept thinking, "Well, he's fairly believable."

The problem with the miniseries, though, is it keeps changing tone so radically from episode to episode. I think that was Murphy's point: he wanted to show in episode two, for example, the worst side of the brothers when they're going hogwild buying the clothes and the watches and the corpse, and dressing sluttily in Speedos and underwear, while in Season 5 he wants to show the sobering side of the brothers' claims of sexual abuse. But the whole thing just doesn;t hang together--it doesn't fully take a point of view. And what is Nathan Lane's Dominick Dunne even doing in this series, providing his bitchy snobby insights into the case to Penelope Ann Miller? He seems like he wandered in from Capote vs. the Swans--there's not much point to including him.

This is always the trouble with Ryan Murphy's shows--they often have so many ideas, but he never sorts them out. He just piles on everything,.

R511 I wonder if they will win Emmys, and if so, who will win? NAC or Cooper? NAC's performance overall was better, but he has no scenes where he was truly incredible. Cooper has episode 5 where he was outstanding. It comes down to what is more impressive. Sometimes it's easier to judge a standalone episode than several episodes of a show. On the other hand: Cooper is openly gay. I really hope homophobia won't cost him, but you never know. Also, the Emmys are about politics. Was Cooper's support of the brothers smart? Or was it smarter to stay neutral, like NAC did? Will it affect their chances? Who knows. For some reason I think NAC is gonna win, since he has more buzz right now. I'm aftaid Cooper will be forgotten. On the other hand the whole show was controversial, so that might affect the acting awards too, maybe nobody from the show will win.

[quote]This is always the trouble with Ryan Murphy's shows--they often have so many ideas, but he never sorts them out. He just piles on everything,.

I agree 100 percent, and I would say that ridiculous series HOLLYWOOD was one of the worst examples of this. The stuff that he writes himself is never cohesive, he just seems to throw a hundred ideas at the wall simply for shock or "entertainment" value even if they don't hang together.

R512, Murphy deliberately doesn't take a singular point of view here. The episodes shift to different perspectives, and it's clear there's never any intention to declare, "This is what really happened." That said, the argument that the brothers killed their parents for the inheritance gets the last word, so make of that what you will.

Yes, the last word is what matters the most. The prosecutor in the second trial who destroyed the boys’ defense and Vicki Lawrence’s heart attack inducing diatribe in the jury room strikes me as the final impression that Ryan & Co. wanted us to walk away with. Not to mention the final scene with the family on the boat, which clearly shows the boys as cold blooded premeditated murderers whose lives were never in danger. Case closed.

It was just boring.

hum hum

hum

[Quote]But the whole thing just doesn;t hang together--it doesn't fully take a point of view. And what is Nathan Lane's Dominick Dunne even doing in this series, providing his bitchy snobby insights into the case to Penelope Ann Miller? He seems like he wandered in from Capote vs. the Swans--there's not much point to including him.

This. It felt very disjointed. And I agree with you about Dominic Dunne. He was not needed.

[Quote]This is always the trouble with Ryan Murphy's shows--they often have so many ideas, but he never sorts them out. He just piles on everything,.

This.

[quote] [R511] I wonder if they will win Emmys, and if so, who will win? NAC or Cooper?

Neither will.

Currently "Monsters" only has a 46% rating on rottentomatoes. That means critically it's a turkey.

I love Kitty. Her only problem was she didn't nip it in the bud. I mean who doesn't resent their calcium being stolen?

R515 and R516 Exactly. This might explain why he has taken the stance he has about the brothers, he refuses to visit them and he didn't ask them to contribute to the overall facts before he made the show either. I don't think he believes they were abused.

R521 It's too bad, because the show had potential. I will say that although the story/plotting was a bit of a mess, strong performances from NAC and Koch saved it.

[quote] The stuff that he writes himself is never cohesive, he just seems to throw a hundred ideas at the wall simply for shock or "entertainment" value even if they don't hang together.

I think he has ADHD.

If it was just one Ryan Murphy series that had this problem, then it could be excused.

But it's EVERY Ryan Murphy production that is like this.

That's not a fluke. That's a pattern.

Normally, Hollywood would dismiss him as a hack, but I guess his IDEAS are good, and get enough positive feedback (at least in the beginning), that he is allowed to continue to come up with new shows.

This has been the #1 show on Netflix for over a week. That’s why he’s allowed to keep working. Murphy has crafted some of the most biggest docudramas in history, and Monsters is another notch on his bedpost.

[quote] Monsters is another notch on his bedpost.

So is Nicholas Chavez.

[quote] Murphy has crafted some of the [bold]most biggest[/bold] docudramas in history,

Fuck off, R528. I originally typed something else with “most” in it, changed my mind to “biggest” and forgot to delete “most” with the rest of my edit.

[quote]Murphy deliberately doesn't take a singular point of view here. The episodes shift to different perspectives, and it's clear there's never any intention to declare,

But does this show make it clear that different perspectives are being presented, an that not everything we're seeing could have actually happened? (I haven't seen any of it yet.) Because if it's not clear on this point, that's just bad writing and direction.

[quote]I think he has ADHD. If it was just one Ryan Murphy series that had this problem, then it could be excused. But it's EVERY Ryan Murphy production that is like this.

Maybe, but I don't think so. I think Murphy throws every possible idea into his shows, no matter how outrageous, because it's easier to fill out a series that way, even if the result is incoherence. For example, it's easy to include scenes of the brothers being sexually intimate with each other if the attitude is, "Well, we're not saying that ACTUALLY happened, we're saying that it MAY have happened."

And in this particular case, of course Ryan Murphy was not going to do a series about the Menendez brothers with two hot, young guys in the leads but without including scenes of the two of them being sexual with each other.

Accuracy be damned. I want to see those two get it on!

The two episodes of the brothers lying about the murders are the equivalent of the chicken fights/Conway Twitty inserts in Family Guy. They needed to find 9 episodes of shit and boy did they get it.

Was the dad just finger banging them or fucking them?

[quote] Chavez is definitely straight.

Definitely?

[quote]But does this show make it clear that different perspectives are being presented, an that not everything we're seeing could have actually happened? (I haven't seen any of it yet.) Because if it's not clear on this point, that's just bad writing and direction.

Bingo.

R530, given that a number of posters on this thread understand that the series shifts perspective, yes. Those that didn't understand this while watching it can't be helped, apparently.

^^Tell that to the many critics on rottentomatoes who complained about this, r537.

Understanding that it takes this approach and criticizing it for taking this approach are two different things.

[quote]Given that a number of posters on this thread understand that the series shifts perspective, yes.

But do they understand this because the writing and direction of the series itself makes it clear, or just because Murphy and some of the other people involved have stated that this is the case? Because those are two very different things.'

[quote]Understanding that it takes this approach and criticizing it for taking this approach are two different things.

This is also very true. Again, what I'm hearing about this Menendez series reminds me of HOLLYWOOD, where from one moment to the next, the perspective shifted from the way things were in Hollywood back in the day and the way they might have been if societal attitudes towards people of color and gay people were far more accepting at that time. Incredibly annoying.

I'll just say this and wrap up my side of this conversation. I watched the series in full before reading any commentary here or anywhere else, and it was clear to me that multiple perspectives were portrayed over different episodes. I wasn't confused by the shifting narrative. I thought this was an enjoyable show. Not the best, but worth a watch anyway.

[quote]what I'm hearing about this Menendez series reminds me of HOLLYWOOD, where from one moment to the next, the perspective shifted from the way things were in Hollywood back in the day and the way they might have been

Which, R540 should be an obvious clue to you that Monsters is as big a work of fiction as Hollywood is.

[quote] This is also very true. Again, what I'm hearing about this Menendez series reminds me of HOLLYWOOD, where from one moment to the next, the perspective shifted from the way things were in Hollywood back in the day and the way they might have been if societal attitudes towards people of color and gay people were far more accepting at that time. Incredibly annoying.

Fellow Travelers was very guilty of this.

"Erik, come here! I need to check your penis."

Why would Momma Menendez need to check Erik's penis when (according to the boys!) Daddy was already having sexual contact with Erik, and Momma knew about this contact? Why couldn't/wouldn't Daddy Menendez simply do the penis checking whilst he was diddling Erik?

I was too busy checking out his hole.

R420 HA! I said the same thing. That dude's straight as an arrow—zero fashion sense--as opposed to Cooper who ALWAYS looks good.

R428 Because the prison scene was Ryan Murphy bullshit.

R442 My guess is they're"Gay for stay"

Is it true Erik was hooking up with his male friend when he was a teen, I think his name was Craig? Or is that another thing Ryan Murphy made up?

We should do a poll on how many DLers believe Jose molested them. Was that cinnamon anecdote from the third episode legit or more Murphy fantasy?

While not great by any means, this was a mostly compelling watch and definitely better than HOLLYWOOD. I wanted to like that one, but by the end I had migraines from all my heavy eye rolling.

I wonder what happened to the $14 million Menendez estate. Did Kitty’s and Jose’s siblings fight over it?

How would young kids pre-Internet even know about the "cinnamon trick" (assuming it's even a thing...I'd never heard of it).

R480 He gave the right answer. Why should an actor answer that question???

The purpose of the whole show is to film Cooper with a semi, so Ryan Murphy can fap on it.

R556 That wasn't even real, it was a prosthetic. Besides... Cooper is not Ryan's new muse, NAC is.

With homocidal homos incest is best.

My biggest problem with Ryan Murphy productions are all the BAD WIGS!

Art imitates life.

Is he bonking NAC, R556?

[quote]I wonder what happened to the $14 million Menendez estate. Did Kitty’s and Jose’s siblings fight over it?

R553 well the boys spent a shit-ton of it right after they slaughtered them, legal fees and other expenses took the rest. There's nothing left.

R560 He has been bald since he was a teenager. Well, he started to lose his hair as a teenager. It's not a huge shock that he's completely bald now.

True, R542. But as someone else pointed out, recognizing that these stories are told from different, shifting perspectives doesn't mean one has to agree that's an effective method of storytelling.

[quote]With Erik, the sex continued well into his teens, and high school. And then after he reached puberty, he was having orgasms from the experience.

Erik was a strong and athletic teenage boy. He was a tennis champion. He could have easily fought off his dad. Something is not adding up. Maybe he was abused when he was younger and lied about it lasting into his teen years to help his defense?

He was terrified of his father and felt helpless. They were in a long term sexual relationship and I’m sure Erik was confused that he sometimes enjoyed the sex with his father.

he could've beat his Dad up and flown away like Jenny did

Yeah, he could have hidden broken glass in his rectum, or something, if he really didn't like it. I totally blame him!

[Quote]How would young kids pre-Internet even know about the "cinnamon trick" (assuming it's even a thing...I'd never heard of it).

I wondered the same thing, r554. People bang on that pineapple juice masks the flavour, but I've never before seen cinnamon used for that purpose.

For those of us who haven't seen this thing yet, what is "the cinnamon trick?"

Erik would put cinnamon in his father's coffee so when Jose forced Erik to blow him the semen wouldn't taste as bad

This was talked about during the first trial, and sales of cinnamon rose dramatically.

Why would you want to mask the flavor?

The pretence was that Erik was gay and while he hated the fact it was he father, he did find pleasure in the acts. Yes he probably could have beat him off (no pun intended) but there is the intimidation factor as well. Couple that with the mind fuck of if it is so bad why does a part of me enjoy it.

I wonder if they'd kept their mouths shut and didn't go on that wild spending spree if they might have gotten away with it.

[QUOTE] This was talked about during the first trial, and sales of cinnamon rose dramatically.

My dad was a cinnamon salesman back then. He said when that testimony got out, he was rolling in dough. The streets were paved in “brown gold” as they called it. It was enough money to put my older brother through college. Then things slowed down and he retired after Big Cinnamon consolidated the industry in the 2000s.

Was Jose finger banging the menudo boys?

Oh wow r575 you're so funny!

All they had to do was secretly videotape the sexual abuse and use the tapes as leverage against the father.

R573 This was a comment on the statement from his daugher. Seems like others picked up on the fact that he's gay.

[Quote]Lmaoooo. And he know he 💅

Didn't Kitty also have an accent? Chloe just played the part as Chloe and it was really distracting.

How wasn't Erik leaking all over the tennis court? I read on DL that years of bottoming causes incontinence.

R580 Yes, Kitty did. Chloe ALWAYS plays Chloe. That's kinda her thing.

What in the hell kind of accent would Kitty have?

I thought she was born and raised in California? Kitty Andersen.

r576 Just the one

r579

*stepdaughter

R583 He says here his dad was Cuban, as we all know, but the other side of his family are Scandinavian.

R582, I am confused too. Why does a Swan suddenly show up in LA?

I can't watch movies with sexual abuse of child by a parent. It's too horrible and I don't want that garbage in my head.

New interview.

New thread:

I believe they were abused but I think the motive for the murders was money, not abuse. They were afraid they were going to be cut off, so they killed their parents. They had to kill both or Kitty would get the money.

A thread where one person commented over 300 times. WOW.

Why do you care, R592?

Do you know how pathetic you sound?

I mean, who has that much time on their hands, to be able to track someone down like a stalker, and then literally sit there and COUNT how many times they've posted on one thread?

I know you're trying to make that person look bad, but you're making yourself look even worse.

You're a lonely and sad person with no life, who has time to stalk people on this website, and then count how many times they've posted, and then harass them about it.

You need psychological help. Seriously.

R593 - I am not R592. It took me 30 seconds to block you R593 and see you are insane OCD and well deserve the blocking. Bye bye, low iq troll.

r594 I have to say, perhaps you are just envious that this thread has so much discussion, but your embarrassing "Cute Dermatologists at Doctorly" thread was a complete failure? You might want to think before you throw around the words "troll" and "low iq."

I thought it was a Datalounge requirement to throw around the words "troll" and "low iq."

In fact, I do NOT recommend blocking R593 because it's self sabotage. The entire site slows down to a crawl. R593 is the type of person who gets attracted to a thread and then posts many dozens of times to it, 50 times, 100 times, just spewing spewing spewing. It's not insane in fact, but it is one of the most shocking display of oversharing. I had no idea! It's ENDLESS.

r597 I think your meds are off, sweetheart.

I meant MEDS are OFF, ALL CAPS

Why come to a thread you have no interest in just to complain? I don't get it. There are so many threads and topics here I have no interest in, that's why I ignore those threads.

sock puppets to boot. sad