Israel turns Hezbollah pagers into little bombs and explodes them, injuring hundreds of fighters.

NY Times:

Large numbers of “wireless devices” simultaneously exploded across Lebanon on Tuesday afternoon, according to the Lebanese Health Ministry, a day after Israeli leaders warned that they were considering stepping up their military campaign against Hezbollah.

A Lebanese intelligence official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive matter, said that the blasts occurred after pagers belonging to Hezbollah members exploded across Lebanon. Lebanon’s health minister, Firass Abiad, said that hundreds of people had been injured in the blasts but that the authorities were still working to gather an exact figure.

The Israeli military declined to comment.

Lebanon’s Health Ministry said in a statement that many people had arrived at Lebanese hospitals after being wounded when their “wireless devices” exploded. The ministry warned citizens to stay away from similar devices until it was clear what had caused the blasts.

The Lebanese Red Cross said in a statement that 80 ambulances were responding to “multiple bombings” in southern and eastern Lebanon, as well as in Beirut, the capital.

How?

A friend of mine offers this speculation:

“ I would hypothesize the Israeli authorities have figured-out how to download onto ‘communications devices’ some sort of software hack, which causes the mechanism controlling the lithium-ion battery to somehow short itself. That could induce a typical failure mode for lithium batteries, where hydrogen gas rapidly evolves & bursts the battery’s container, then a spark ignites the hydrogen and lithium, transforming it into a small incendiary device. ”

Thanks r3.

Perhaps Israel had access to the supply chain if these were uniform devices distributed to Hezbollah fighters.

Does anyone know what brand and model of these pagers?

People still use pagers?

This is better than blowing up the head of Hamas inside the Iranian government’s high-security guest house.

Kvelling.

I suppose pagers might be used (ironically) as a security protocol to avoid having communications intercepted. The person paged can call back on any random number.

There was something like this in Zero Dark Thirty.

Don't FUCK with the Jews!!

They’re mostly not dead. Just maimed.

NYT: Lebanon's health minister, Firas al-Abyad, said in a press conference that eight people were killed in by exploding paging devies and at least 2,780 were wounded, including 200 in serious conditions.

It’s not just lightning that God can use to smite those who try to harm Israel. Pro-Palestinian Americans should take heed.

Nobody is going to kill pro-Palestinian Americans.

Hate Bibi. LOVE the IDF! 💙🇮🇱

[quote] Nobody is going to kill pro-Palestinian Americans.

Perhaps they’ll just be struck with cancer or some pestilence. I wouldn’t want to be in their shoes.

This is the work of Mossad, not divine intervention.

[quote] This is the work of Mossad, not divine intervention.

So divine inspiration. Either way is okay. It got the job done.

NYT: “Electronic pager devices also exploded in Syria, according to Iran’s Tasnim news agency and to Saberin News, an outlet affiliated with the Revolutionary Guards. Saberin reported that seven people were killed in Syria from the blast targeting their devices in the Seyedah Zeinab neighborhood, a Shia stronghold in Damascus.”

There goes the Middle Eastern beeper market. Presumably there's a very sad Turkish factory owner somewhere right now.

Halfway home and my pager's still blowin up... today I didn't even have to use my AK I gotta say it was a good day

The friend I mentioned above has speculated that Hamas on Oct 7 was using some new form of communication devices using frequencies not authorized for communications most likely supplied by Russia. That is how they surprised Israel on Oct 7. Perhaps Israeli has turned that communications technology into a weapon.

Now that is one hell of a spam text. BOOM

Film at 11

Times says pagers

“Three officials briefed on the attack said that it had targeted hundreds of pagers belonging to Hezbollah operatives who have used such devices for years to make it harder for their messages to be intercepted. The devices were programmed to beep for several seconds before exploding, according to the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter.”

r26 Hilarious its like his dick exploded.

I still use a pager, and I noticed it’s getting warm. I hope it doesn’t

Hearing reports they painted a road onto the cliffside too and dozens of Hezbollah armored vehicles smashed into it

Jesus! Did you see that?

Poor r28.

Clean-up on aisle r28!

Sources close to The IDF tell me they will be dropping anvils on Hezbollah fighters next week

[QUOTE]eight people were killed in by exploding paging devies and at least 2,780 were wounded, including 200 in serious conditions.

Considering where pagers are worn or kept, waistband or pocket, there's gonna be a whole lot of genital injuries. Modern warfare is amazing. I hope these guys haven't reproduced yet.

Dayum! Bitches be hard core!!!

Frankly, I am tired about worrying what these manbabies will do next. They ought to move back in with their mommies (if they ever moved out) and whine to them about how victimized they are. I'm sure mommy will take care of them while the rest of the world moves on with no big loss.

Sorry, wrong thread.

Good!

The interesting part is that they apparently exploded all at the same time. If it were a software update causing some form of hardware malfunction that led to a battery explosion/fire, I would expect more variance in timing of the actual explosions. I'd love to see the details of this hack if it was one, because that would seriously impress the hell out of me.

Or if they somehow actually supplied Hezbollah with pagers that were designed to also be bombs, then did the usual phone call IED thing, which is my guess, that would be impressive too, but for different reasons.

Nice job you guys!

They’re very wrong about it being malware, those pagers were rigged and those are actual explosives not lithium batteries, batteries just kind of burn very aggressively, these explosions look like small high-explosive charges.

Take with a grain of salt: "The rechargeable pagers were confiscated and held for some time before being released and shipped to #Lebanon. There, #Israel tempered the pagers and placed the 1-3 gram explosive device in each pager."

Some gruesome stuff here. Normally, I don't take pleasure in others' suffering. I feel bad for Russian soldiers caught up in Putin's evil war who got killed or maimed for a madman. (Not the Wagner professionals or released criminals) But I kinda chuckled at the last video.

Cynthia Nixon is going on hunger strike in solidarity with the exploded Hezbollah testicles.

This is a terrorist attack by Israel. Extraordinarily reckless approach to collateral damage of bystanders or family members.

Goats across the region are BAAAAA-AAAAA-ing in relief at knowing that they will be spared the romantic overtures from Hezbollah who were carrying their pagers in their front pockets.

According to *exclusive sources* for Sky News Arabia - the Israeli intelligence agency Mossad placed explosive PETN on the batteries of the pagers used by the Hezbollah and detonated it by raising the batteries temperature.

Hi, r43, forget to wear your pager today?

This is why you always need to read the fine print…

What did these clowns think would happen after the first three months were free?

Wow, it's good the Mossad did some weeding.

R43 is Hezbollah’s LGBTQ+ inclusion officer.

There's speculation that this shipment of pagers was confiscated in the UAE where goods shipped from Taiwan arrive for distribution in the Middle East. The explosive was applied there. The batteries were heated which caused the explosive reaction, so it's a combo of what r3's friend describes.

Mossad agents must have balls the size of church bells.

"injuring hundreds of fighters"

Whaa, I'm so sad for them.

Good triumphing over evil.

That’s movie plot level warfare

Another happy thought.

Israel killed a ten year old girl.

Hamas killed more than 1 child, R56.

Yes R57, in a terrorist attack, similar to this one.

Reminds me of the plot in THE KINGSMEN.

I'm sure the people standing right next to them when the little bombs went off who were killed or seriously injured can just be thought of as necessary collateral damage, right?

Since these are Hezbollah terrorists who chose to be terrorists and chose to have pagers used to aid their terrorism near innocent people, absolutely 100% of any innocent people being injured or killed is by definition the fault of the Hezbollah terrorists. Hezbollah deserves even more retribution against them for any innocent victims they caused to be injured by being near them or allowing the pager to be near them.

I hope everyone mentioning those who are innocent will appropriately blame the Hezbollah terrorists and not express their usual antisemitism by trying to blame Israel.

You aren't very good at trolling, r61.

Expect Hezbollah to declare pagers "too modern" and then return to using rotary telephones again. Meanwhile, the rest of the World continues to embrace technological advances rather than being stuck in the 1990s.

What is the past tense of smite? Smote? Smitted ? Smitten?

[QUOTE]I'm sure the people standing right next to them when the little bombs went off

Have you not seen videos of the explosions? One is linked upthread. The explosions are small and contained within a small area. The video upthread shows one going off in a market with three other men standing next to or close to the target. They were fine and moved away. And failed to render assistance.

Some observations via Twitter

Israel will be mapping out injuries, hospital admissions, social media posts, electronic communications, news footage, and medical records, linking them all to people who had these pagers today. Forget the injuries and deaths; Israel just created a massive and growing trove of information about both known and previously unknown Hezbollah militants, as well as their supporters, partners, friends, family members, colleagues, workplaces, vehicles, and homes.

They just created an incredibly dense and *up-to-date* social graph of an entire terrorist network, across Lebanon as well as neighboring countries. It is incredible what they just did.

(Imagine being in a dark room with a massive Christmas tree in it. The tree has thousands of electric lights strewn all over it, but they’re unlit because the wall plug is not plugged into the wall socket.)

(Now, plug it in.)

Israel's enemies are our enemies too so there's plenty of reason to celebrate the terrorist's just punishment. These terrorists would slit the throat of an American without hesitation and dance with the blood dripping from their hands.

For r61

Fuck around with the Jews and find out.

These assholes never learn.

Great move. That will certainly lessen the hate.

Mossad: from avenging Munich to creating eunuchs

R66, I find it hard to believe that they don’t already have most of this information. They’re just trying to force Hezbollah and/or Iran to attack.

Israel is, of course, perfectly capable of engaging in indiscriminate terror attacks on Lebanese civilians. However, they went to a great deal of effort to target Hezbollah fighters personally. It is unfortunate that a few innocent bystanders were injured or killed, but to call this “terrorism” displays a profound ignorance of the meaning of the word, and a cynical contempt for truth.

I feel that we (USA) will be the recipients of the revenge attack. Israel has the iron dome and we don't. And with the high holy days coming up, NYPD will be getting a lot of overtime.

[QUOTE]Israel has the iron dome and we don't.

What am I? Chopped liver?

Taking out fighters whose primary strategy is firing rockets indiscriminately into civilian populations, requiring the evacuation of entire cities is not terrorism. It is counter-terrorism

that's an ouchie

[quote] I feel that we (USA) will be the recipients of the revenge attack. Israel has the iron dome and we don't. And with the high holy days coming up, NYPD will be getting a lot of overtime.

Who would perform this hypothetical revenge attack?

Hezbollah operatives of the thousands of Americans who call regularly to globalise the intifada?

[quote] Have you not seen videos of the explosions? One is linked upthread. The explosions are small and contained within a small area. The video upthread shows one going off in a market with three other men standing next to or close to the target. They were fine and moved away.

You mean like the ten-year-old girl who was standing next to one of them, and was killed as a result? Or have you not been reading the news sites and just cherry-picking videos to watch?

She was murdered by remote control.

Do you also weep for the children killed by Hezbollah rockets and by Hamas, r79.

I don't put anything past those protestors. They have worked themselves into a froth over their Israeli hatred. I'm just being paranoid.

[quote] Hamas killed more than 1 child, [R56].

Oh, then that makes it okay, then.

Ok how? According to the laws of war, unintentional civilian casualties are acceptable, if efforts were made to minimize civilian deaths.

So what’s this R83?

The International Criminal Court has decreed that while Israel’s actions would probably qualify as an act of terrorism, they will let it slide given the impressive degree of hardcoreness.

Trying to work out what the people are upset about.

Are they sad that an Islamist terrorist organisation has suffered a serious blow

Are they sad that Israel have taken decisive action against an Islamist terrorist organised who have been attacking them daily for a year and who killed 12 Israeli kids playing football recently?

Are they upset that the Jews are one again meaning that Never Again means Never Again?

What R66 said, plus I would imagine this type of explosion might leave a distinctive type of scar which could be scanned for in future.

[quote] So what’s this [R83]?

Not okay. Also irrelevant.

R88 it’s completely relevant. Israel has no interest in minimizing civilian casualties, they’re intentionally killing children. That article details it. And you weirdos are cheering them on.

[quote] Some of the physicians said that the types and locations of the wounds, and accounts of Palestinians who brought children to the hospital, led them to believe the victims were directly targeted by Israeli troops.

That’s your case?

I don’t know how Dr Fozia Alvi can tell the difference between an intentional bullet and crossfire, or for that matter, who fired the bullet. However, even assuming that her assertions are correct, how is an illegal act by an individual soldier equivalent to a government policy of intentional, indiscriminate massacres?

Nobody is cheering on the deaths of children except those supporting Hamas and Hezbollah.

How is it relevant, by the way? Are you asserting that Israel intentionally killed the little girl in Lebanon because some Palestinian doctors in Gaza tell reporters that they believe some bullets wounds were intentional? If that your idea of logic?

Or does your argument really just consist of Jews bad. Muslims good.

Thanks for that possible explanation, R3. But the other thing I don't understand is, why are the exploding devices being referred to as "pagers" rather than mobile phones? How many people have "pagers" in 2024? Any explanation for this?

R91 it’s relevant because it’s indicative of the value they place on the lives of children who are not Israeli. They don’t care if they kill them. They will kill them intentionally, and in enormous numbers. The population of Gaza is 50% under 18, skewed much younger than most populations, and Israel indiscriminately drops tonne after tonne of explosives with no care for the children they are killing.

Israel killed the girl in Lebanon by indiscriminately planting a bomb on her father.

And commenters on here have been cheering on the deaths of Palestinian civilians (half of the civilian casualties being children).

R92, cell phones are easy to track. A number of people have been killed through cell phone tracing. The leader of Hamas now communicates only through letters. Since pagers are old tech, they may have been seen as safer.

[quote]But the other thing I don't understand is, why are the exploding devices being referred to as "pagers" rather than mobile phones? How many people have "pagers" in 2024? Any explanation for this?

From what I read Hezbollah discourages the use of smartphones for tracking reasons and issues pagers and flip phones to their members.

For r92:

We are talking about the exact opposite of indiscriminate killing. Israel went to great lengths to target only Hezbollah fighters. For you to assert that the unintended death of one girl show Israel “doesn’t care” about killing civilians demonstrates that you are not a rational person.

Am I wrong for hoping China did something similar with the millions of red MAGA hats it exported to the cult?

[quote] Israel killed a ten year old girl.

Hamas killed dozens, you moron.

Thanks, R95 and R96.

Now that’s what I like to see

Sort of gives a whole new meaning to the DL-ism - "Told you I was hardcore"

[quote] Hamas killed dozens, you moron.

And Israel killed thousands, dickhead.

And still Hamas does not surrender or release the hostages, r103. You care more about the dead Palestinians than it does.

R104 Israel has thousands of Palestinians held hostage in their prisons, taken from their homes with cause or charge or court date. Treat them equally.

Some ghouish shit by Mossad. I'm both appalled and applauding, as we further alienate ourselves from any perceived enemy when we can just blow them up remotely via pager or drone. We used to think the firebombers of Dresden had it rough...

It's a unique way to kill (or even just maim) people and also has the benefit of giving surrounding survivors permanent PTSD. Some little girl witnessing a guy blown up in her local grocery store: a win for Israel.

And Hamas decided to use terror attacks to achieve their release, r105. Let's see you treat them equally.

[quote]72 hostages were reportedly killed on October 7 or in Hamas captivity according to Israel. Some were murdered by Hamas. As of 1 September 2024, 101 hostages remained in captivity in the Gaza Strip, 97 of whom had been abducted on 7 October 2023, and the other four hostages captured earlier.

I wonder whether Israel would stop if the hostages were released.

Whenever the pro-palestinian people speak about the Israeli "genocide," they never seem to mention all the hostages killed and still held in captivity. Or, do they believe that Israel is lying about there being hostages.

[quote][R104] Israel has thousands of Palestinians held hostage in their prisons, taken from their homes with cause or charge or court date. Treat them equally.

Obligatory not r204 - but I do have a question. Are you suggesting that Israel took the "thousands of Palentinians hostage in their prisons,taken from their homes with (sic) cause or charge or court date" BEFORE the initial Hezbollah attack and taking of hostages?

This was pretty dastardly, tbh.

War is hell.

I'm distrusting of all media: prove to me that everyone that got blow up was a terrorist. No hear say.

Some of the TokTok’ed easily duped old hippie types seem to be going the “Israeli hostages are enjoying captivity. They’ve never had more fun” route of mental gymnastics.

[quote] Are you suggesting that Israel took the "thousands of Palentinians hostage in their prisons,taken from their homes with (sic) cause or charge or court date" BEFORE the initial Hezbollah attack and taking of hostages?

Yes it’s readily available information R108. Below article is from before Oct 7th.

Also R108 I’m guessing you meant Hamas and not Hezbollah (sic) ;)

Indiscriminate casualties are typically under the purview of terrorists and war criminals, but only we can call them "collateral damage."

The difference is that the suicide bombers of radical Islam intentionally kill civilians and do as much harm as possible. It's hard to imagine an attack less likely to harm bystanders than a small pager explosion. That video of the store demonstrates this. The man who had the pager on him was injured. Everyone else in the store was fine. And there were shoppers standing literally right next to the guy whose pager exploded! And I do mean literally! If it had been a Muslim suicide attack, most of the store would've been destroyed and all those people would've been killed..

"Here's something for your balls ... MOTHERFUCKER!"

R92 OH FOR CRISSAKES CAN YOU NOT GOOGLE?

The pagers that exploded had been newly acquired by Hezbollah after the group’s leader ordered members to stop using cell phones, warning they could be tracked by Israeli intelligence. A Hezbollah official told The Associated Press the pagers were a new brand the group had not used before.

At about 3:30 p.m. local time on Tuesday, pagers started heating up and then exploding in the pockets and hands of those carrying them — particularly in a southern Beirut suburb and the Beqaa region of eastern Lebanon where Hezbollah has a strong presence, and in Damascus, where several Hezbollah members were wounded, Lebanese security officials and a Hezbollah official said. The Hezbollah official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to the press.

The AP reached out to the Israeli military, which declined to comment. The explosions came hours after Israel’s internal security agency said it had foiled an attempt by Hezbollah to kill a former senior Israeli security official using a planted explosive device that could be remotely detonated.

Experts said the pager explosions showed signs of being a long-planned operation – though the means were not immediately known. Investigators had no immediate word on how the pagers were detonated or if explosives had somehow been sneaked into each pager.

Whatever the means, it targeted an extraordinary breadth of people with hundreds of small explosions — all at once, wherever the pager carrier happened to be — that left some maimed.

[quote] If it had been a Muslim suicide attack, most of the store would've been destroyed and all those people would've been killed..

If and would and would. You people exist on hypotheticals. Meanwhile real mass murder is happening in Gaza and you deny it. It’s upside down.

There is no such thing as God, R13. Idiot

[Quote] People still use pagers?

Only Dataloungers.

[quote]People still use pagers?

Dr. Bombay does.

[QUOTE]A Hezbollah official told The Associated Press the pagers were a new brand the group had not used before.

They're from a Taiwanese company. Yashar Ali is reporting that the company's website is down, though it's unclear if it was taken down before or after the attacks.

I'm so glad Datalounge exists. My first reaction when I heard of the exploding pagers was to laugh my ass off. It's hilarious. But here is the only place I could come and find really good humor about this.

When I saw "exploding pagers" I immediately thought of DL's eldergays. I assumed they were the only people who still used pagers, so they could page their friends to let them know when Designing Women came on one of the cable channels for old shows.

Jfc, why is the Hamas and Hezbollah apologist even in this thread? Is it just to scold us? Yeah, sometimes civilians get killed, but for your buddy terrorists, it's a feature, not a bug. I'm glad you care so much about this ten year old girl that you don't mind that the fucking people who killed her were the motherfucking TERRORISTS! Don't hold a terrorist pager and you won't be blown up. Now fuck off back to your queers for Palestine meeting and go spit on some Jewish students at Brown or whatever.

[quote] I'm glad you care so much about this ten year old girl that you don't mind that the fucking people who killed her were the motherfucking TERRORISTS!

I’m glad you agree with me that Israel are committing terrorism.

If they could do this with pagers, can mobile phones potentially be the next target? A lot of people would probably hold off buying a new one.

The justice meted out against Hezbollah was not indiscriminate.

[quote]Elijah J. Magnier, a Brussels-based senior political risk analyst, said he spoke with Hezbollah members who had examined pagers that failed to explode. What triggered the blasts, he said, appeared to be an error message sent to all the devices that caused them to vibrate, forcing the user to click on the buttons to stop the vibration. The combination detonated a small amount of explosives hidden inside and ensured that the user was present when the blast went off, he said.

The terrorist owner of the device had to press the button to trigger the explosion, ensuring that it would not detonate without the terrorist being present. Considering what happened to the terrorists and the injuries they caused to people nearby, the people of Lebanon will probably be less likely to associate with the terrorists or let family members be near them.

[quote]Jfc, why is the Hamas and Hezbollah apologist even in this thread?

His enduring and sick hatred of Jews keeps him motivated.

Israel is always getting those dumb muslim terrorists. Good for them.

The future of warfare is likely to focus less on firepower and more on the power of information and the way it connects a military’s forces through the concepts of command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance.

In the contest between those looking to hide their activities—whether at the tactical, operational, or strategic-levels of warfare—and those seeking to identify and track them, the balance by 2040 may shift to the "seekers," as increasingly advanced and accessible technologies provide them with continuous global surveillance capabilities.

This is some road runner Wile E Coyote shit

[quote] The terrorist owner of the device had to press the button to trigger the explosion, ensuring that it would not detonate without the terrorist being present.

Hmmmmm based on video evidence (in this thread) doesn’t look like the person wearing it had to push anything for it to detonate. Also someone else could pick it up lol. This argument holds no water.

What I read was that on command the pagers themselves began to overheat which caused the small explosive to go off. I like the concept of terrorizing the terrorists by marking them with a groin scar and making it difficult for them to create the next generation of terrorists. Brilliant. Just blow their dicks off.

Seriously, you don't fuck with the Jews.

They should all learn that lesson.

I believe this was more or less the plot device of Kingsman: the Secret Service, starring DL favorite Taron Egerton. Cell phones play a major role, but I won't insert spoiler here in case there's anyone on the planet who has yet to see the film.

[quote] And Israel killed thousands, dickhead.

R103 Go live in Palestine, stoopid.

Hey r136 why don't you take your "brilliance" to the State Department.

Israel killed innocent civilians and children with this. Israel is not going to be around much longer. No one wants to deal with them anymore.

R135, Israelis, not Jews, you stupid asshole, have already lost.

Call yourself an anti Zionist R140, your friends with the red triangles still think you’re a fucking Jew.

3-5 grams of highly explosive material were hidden as part of the battery cell.

Here is 5 grams of TNT

Imagine the shrapnel from a little metallic gadget exploding.

Done through a Hungarian shell company. Maybe paramilitary groups should inspect their hardware a bit more closely.

The world off warfare is changing so fast. I remember years ago when they got a terrorist/murderer sitting in the passenger seat in a car. The bomb fired from a drone cut through the roof just over the passenger, leaving the rest of them stunned but alive.

Now that all their pants got blown off, there's going to be a huge run on jeans. I think I know someone who can get them for them wholesale.

So Orban is supplying Hezbollah for Putin. And the EU and NATO still won’t expel him.

[quote] So Orban is supplying Hezbollah

Supplying them with pagers that detonate when given a signal from Israel. That’s not being supportive of Hezbollah.

This is very smart

Urban may have zilch to do with it. Mossad infiltrated the factory where these were made. Perhaps in Asia of course. The journalism on this seems slow. They have many unexploded pagers so why can't they trace the manufacture of this gadgets? Surely Iran is on it.

Orban - spell check

Are exploding fax machines next?

How are they going to fuck all those virgins in heaven if their dicks have been blown off?

Not far off… it was walkie talkies next.

What happens to air travel now?

^^”The Great Pager Detonation: The End of Phones and Computers on Airplanes?”

[quote] So Orban is supplying Hezbollah for Putin. And the EU and NATO still won’t expel him

I love this troll!

When the Jews say Never Again they fucking mean it.

Never Again motherfuckers.

R157 - The pager thing was definitely technically brilliant, but in the long run it is diplomacy at it's stupidest imaginable.

R155 - Having advised the US Federal government on safety standards, I can guarantee you there are discussions to ban ALL electronic devices from the cabin area going on right now. Possibly even banning them entirely in luggage. Whether that goes anywhere or not is another thing. There could very well be introduction of explosive sniffers in the inspection area, either on the usual stepped % basis, or at first 100%, which is going to make those lines reallly painful.

Hide your pagers! Hide your VHS! Hide your CB Radios! Hide your 8 tracks! Aint nuthin' safe no more!

Walkie talkies now. Hezbollah is going to distrust all communication devices. Is Israel getting ready to attack attack? Would be a good time for it.

I'm shocked they are using walkie talkies after the pager debacle, but I love it. Perhaps I could interest them in bulk cups and strings? Also, Hezbollah soldiers attempted to engage the IDF but instead of bullets flags reading “BANG!” came out of their guns

perhaps electronic gadgets would all have to be turned off and kept in a carbon fibre safe in luggage compartment.

Badass move tbh

First they came for the pagers and I said nothing because I was too busy laughing

Then they came for the walkie talkies and I said nothing again because I was still laughing

R165 Then they came for the solar heaters. Seriously. And next, the laptops.

"Lebanon's official news agency reports that home solar energy systems exploded in several areas of Beirut."

"The Lebanese Health Ministry says nine people have been killed and over 300 injured so far in the second wave of an Israeli intelligence operation to explode Hezbollah electronic devices."

War crime after war crime. When is the international community going to step in and stop Israel destabilizing the whole Middle East? This has already been described as violating the Geneva convention by political figures, and ofc you pro Israel losers cheer it on.

Hey R168, fuck off. Does Hamas not violate Geneva everyday? I know that the bombs they detonate everyday are a calming factor in a city on the edge.

R169 while holding the hostages is against the Geneva convention, it’s not a new war crime every single day like Israel is doing. It’s one crime that has been ongoing. Israel has had countless opportunities to have the hostages returned and hasn’t bothered negotiating. Israel has bombed schools, refugee camps, aid trucks, killed journalists, foreign aid workers, cut off water supplies, medical supplies, communications etc etc etc.

The reaction to this by the Israel haters confirms that ANY response will be condemned by them. They just want dead Israelis (and for most of the haters, substituting the word Jews for Israelis would be just as true of a statement).

As dramatic as this was—what will it accomplish?

NYT says speculation is that the bombs had been discovered so it was use it or lose it. Or that Israel hopes to convince Hezbollah to stop backing Hamas.

Yes I supposed you're right R171. They have no sympathy for any of Hamas' victims. I wish they would just go to Palestine where their objects of lust could light them on fire and toss them off buildings.

[quote] Israel has bombed schools, refugee camps, aid trucks, killed journalists, foreign aid workers, cut off water supplies, medical supplies, communications etc etc etc.

And now terrorist testicles.

Little Bombs Everywhere sounds like a Celeste Ng sequel.

R172, that really is the question here- where is this going?

[quote] Israel has bombed schools, refugee camps, aid trucks, killed journalists, foreign aid workers, cut off water supplies, medical supplies, communications etc etc e

Context matters. Israel is attacking Hamas who invaded and killed over 1,000 civilians. Hamas hides among civilians because they are cowards, because they think civilians are better off dead (“martyrs”) and because they make strategic use of the propaganda value of dead civilians.

r172, while this would be best used in the lead up to a more significant attack, this will still hurt Hezbollah. How can they trust their communication devices now? It also makes the people of Lebanon experience a taste of the terror that Hezbollah sends to Israel with its rockets. Yes, the Iron Dome is mostly effective, but Israelis have to still go for shelter etc. And it will make the non-Hezbollah average person not want to hang around anyone who is, because they could go boom. This is actually brilliant the more I think about it.

R171 I don’t think that’s honest sorry. I haven’t seen a single commenter on this website cheer on the deaths that occurred on October 7th, yet the deaths of Palestinians are regularly applauded, or even completely denied. One side of this is far more bloodthirsty than the other. Palestinians and Muslims are regularly dehumanized on this site, and you pay no heed to the war crimes committed by Israel (which is happening on an escalating and daily basis). I thought when I was younger that with all the education provided about the holocaust, that the dehumanization of a religious or ethnic group resulting in the mass murder of members of that group would never happen again, and yet here we are.

[quote] I'm distrusting of all media: prove to me that everyone that got blow up was a terrorist. No hear say.

By that standard, prove to me that ANYONE got blown up.

No one is applauding or denying the deaths of Palestinian civilians, r179

[quote] One side of this is far more bloodthirsty than the other.

You can’t be serious. How did this war begin?

It is other Muslims who devalue Muslim lives by starting wars that will get them killed and by fighting from civilian areas.

Will their cell phones start exploding? Their TVs? Their vibrators? I hope so,

Season 1 the Wire was a slightly fictional rendering of a real life investigtion that had the BPD trying to take down a well organized drug organizations that had sworn off cell phones and had gone 100% to pagers for better security.

[quote] No one is applauding or denying the deaths of Palestinian civilians,

Ha. I guess you weren’t around for almost every single thread about this subject. There were several separate commenters calling for Gaza to be ‘nuked’. And I notice you didn’t address what I said about commenters on her denying the civilian deaths in Gaza, because it happens every day and you can’t backtrack on it.

[quote] How did this war begin?

It’s not a war, it’s one of the most heavily funded armies in the world destroying a poor country with a disorganized paramilitary force. And if you think Oct 7th happened with no preceding context, then you’re an idiot (sorry).

Question for you, you surely (as you should) take antisemitism very seriously. Do you take Islamophobia as seriously? I mean, both are hatred of a religious / ethnic group right? So both should be equally bad, right?

[quote]I mean, both are hatred of a religious / ethnic group right? So both should be equally bad, right?

It is wrong to assume that someone supports terrorism and hates Jews because they are a Muslim. However, when they tell you that they support terrorism and hate the Jews, it is perfectly reasonable to hate them.

R185 and what of people that hate Muslims? Like many Israelis do clearly, and commenters here. It’s the same yes?

Condemnation of Hamas and Hezbollah is not Islamophobia.

R187 i agree. Similarly condemnation of the IDF and the state of Israel is not antisemitism.

I am so fucking impressed with this operation at the same time I wonder if they should be tried for war crimes against humanity.

I wonder how many mom’s kids were killed or wounded?

Mom's kids?

Presumably, all the casualties had mothers.

[quote]It’s not a war, it’s one of the most heavily funded armies in the world destroying a poor country with a disorganized paramilitary force

Blowing up pagers is not destroying a poor country. Being responsible for a huge explosion in Beirut that devastated property and Lebanese lives was pretty destructive, though.

R189 - being a terrorist puts your whole family at risk - a risk they're willing to take.

Hezbollah doesn't care about the mothers and kids of their targets - so why the tears and the fake concern?

R170, so if Hamas steals aid while the people of Gaza are supposedly starving, do you count that as one crime or a crime for every day the intended recipients do not benefit from the stolen aid?

[quote]When is the international community going to step in and stop Israel destabilizing the whole Middle East?

When will the international community step in and stop Iran from destabilizing Lebanon and funding Hamas?

[quote]Israel is not going to be around much longer.

How many times have we heard that before?

ISRAEL is destabilizing the Middle East? Oh my sides - do you hear yourself?

That's the biggest thought turd I've read in some time.

Yes - Israel is responsible for the Syrian conflict, Iran/Iraq wars, Egypt's military crackdown, Lebanon's civil wars.

You can't be serious?

[quote]Arab citizens and singers have launched songs and videos, calling it '#Pager and Pegering,' celebrating Israel's successful targeting of over 5,000 Hezbollah terrorists in Lebanon with just a click from Tel Aviv. This is how you bring them home—by sending these savages to hell. Meanwhile, you will see protesters in London and New York tomorrow, chanting "from pagers to Nokia.. #Lebanon will be free."

R159 the ability to hide explosives within electronics is something aviation has dealt with for decades, long before even 9/11. Remember Pan Am/ Lockerbie?

That’s why there is security screen of checked and carry on bags and items, using X-rays and other technology that can identify explosives. This recent episode doesn’t change the threat level.

R191 was talking about Israel - Gaza. If you looked at the comment I was replying to that was clear.

Gaza is not a country.

[quote] [R185] and what of people that hate Muslims? Like many Israelis do clearly, and commenters here. It’s the same yes?

I don’t think many Israelis hate Muslims for being Muslim. There are millions of Israeli citizens who are Muslim. There is nothing in the Jewish religion that encourages hatred of Muslims.

Many Israelis hate the people who are trying to kill them. This is not surprising or wrong.

No doubt there are some bigots as there are in any population and, yes, they are to be condemned for being bigots.

As for people here, I think most would draw a distinction between peaceful, tolerant Muslims and those who believe in and practice jihad as a commandment to kill non-Muslims or to impose Islam on others by force. That is a hateful ideology and it is not wrong to oppose it.

[QUOTE]That’s why there is security screen of checked and carry on bags and items, using X-rays and other technology that can identify explosives. This recent episode doesn’t change the threat level.

Can this technology find 3 grams of explosives hidden inside a cell phone's guts?

R202 the answer seems to be no.

I also think it is perfectly natural to hate this version of Islam.

R192 the way to do away with terror groups is to give everyone a top notch military. If everyone had B52s the need for terror groups would be no more.

What you have is an innovative society like Israel surrounded by groups of disaffected people who elect terrorist organizations to rule over them and hide themselves in the civilian population, thereby putting their citizens at risk. Israel throws Pride parades and elects gay people to Parliament Arabs publicly execute gay people in the town square using medieval torture methods.

[quote] I don’t think many Israelis hate Muslims for being Muslim.

Ha my sides. See link below:

[quote] There are millions of Israeli citizens who are Muslim.

Yes who get the luxury of being forced to use different roadways and have limited access to purchasing land, I seem to remember historical similarities (see water fountains / buses).

[quote] There is nothing in the Jewish religion that encourages hatred of Muslims.

No, but it would describe Muslims (as well as all people that are not Jewish) as inferior.

[quote] Many Israelis hate the people who are trying to kill them. This is not surprising or wrong.

And many Palestinians hate the people who are trying to kill them. Again, unsurprising.

[quote] As for people here, I think most would draw a distinction between peaceful, tolerant Muslims and those who believe in and practice jihad as a commandment to kill non-Muslims or to impose Islam on others by force.

You’re being very generous tbh.

Ah, yes, the whole asymmetrical nonsense again. Let's just give the radical Islamic terrorists nukes to make things totally even. What could go wrong?

R172 They're preparing for larger scale operations. It accomplishes overwhelming the emergency infrastructure, creates paranoia and forces attention onto internal penetration by mossad, destroys communications infrastructure, forces scrutiny on tons of assets to make sure they aren't rigged which is a costly waste of time, kills and maims enemies, etc.

The Old Walkie-Talkie One Two Punch: Hand-held radios used by Lebanese armed group Hezbollah detonated on Wednesday across Lebanon's south, in Beirut suburbs and the Bekaa Valley, further stoking tensions with Israel a day after similar explosions by the group's pagers.

At least one of Wednesday's blasts took place near a funeral organised by Iran-backed Hezbollah for those killed the previous day when thousands of pagers used by the group exploded across the country and wounded many of its fighters.

A reporter in the southern suburbs of Beirut said he saw Hezbollah members frantically taking batteries out of any walkie-talkies on them that had not exploded, tossing the parts in metal barrels.

[quote] It accomplishes overwhelming the emergency infrastructure, creates paranoia and forces attention onto internal penetration by mossad, destroys communications infrastructure, forces scrutiny on tons of assets to make sure they aren't rigged which is a costly waste of time, kills and maims enemies, etc.

You’re describing a terrorist attack.

Terrorists get terrorized.

Ya reap what ya sow, terrorist pigs!

What the fuck do people call the massive low level fire bombing of the civilian areas of Tokyo carried out by 100s of U.S. planes that did not have to contend with the Japanese Air Force ?

100,000 civilians killed in one night.

Those pilots earned awards

[quote]Yes who get the luxury of being forced to use different roadways

Nope.

[quote] Yes who get the luxury of being forced to use different roadways and have limited access to purchasing land, I seem to remember historical similarities (see water fountains / buses)

You are confusing people in the occupied territories who are not citizens and are under military security control with the more than 2 million Arab citizens of Israel who have full civil rights.

For someone who likes to talk a lot about the situation you are remarkably ignorant. Why is that?

[No, but it would describe Muslims (as well as all people that are not Jewish) as inferior.

False. Judaism does not consider non-Jews inferior.

Ok R216.

Little terrorists everywhere!!!! Little terrorists everywhere!

Oh right R215, the segregated roads only exist in Palestinian territories, where Israel built roads on lands that don’t belong to them, in areas that have been occupied illegally by the Israeli military. Completely legit, mucho egalitarian. Forgive my ignorance 😉

Not what the poll is about, r217.

Interesting nonetheless R220, when the subject is superiority.

You are linking to an obvious anti-Semite’s spin on a poll, which is not the sort of source an objective person would refer to. The actual poll is about the relationship between the law and religion inside Israel. The fact that most Israeli Jews believe that certain laws IN ISRAEL should give preferential treatment to Jews is not evidence that Jews generally think they are superior to other people. Instead, I think it reflects a concern over maintaining Israel as a Jewish nation. The poll doesn’t provide any context for the question so I have no idea what it referring to. But, for example, it would not be surprising if Israeli Jews wanted to give preferential treatment to Jews in immigration law. Of course, the Arab nations all expelled all Jews in the last century, so it is pointless to look at how their laws treat Jews.

R222 it also very plainly asks if Jewish Israelis should be given preferential treatment, and they agree. It goes on to add suggestive context of why this may be, but when faced with the plain question, that’s how they answered.

[quote] Most Israeli Jews (79%) say Jews deserve preferential treatment in Israel. But they do not see an inherent contradiction between a Jewish homeland and a functioning democracy. Asked whether Israel can be both a Jewish state and a democratic one, majorities of all four Jewish subgroups say “yes.” However, Haredim are less certain than other Israeli Jews that democracy is compatible with Jewish statehood. While a slim majority of Haredim surveyed (58%) say Israel can be both a Jewish state and a democracy, about one-third (36%) say it cannot.

[quote] This may be because many Haredim believe that religious law (halakha) should trump democratic decision-making. To test this, the survey posed a hypothetical question: “And if there is a contradiction between halakha and democratic principles, should the State of Israel give preference to democratic principles or halakha?” In such a situation, 89% of Haredim say halakha should be given preference, and only 3% of Haredi respondents would defer to democratic ideals. By contrast, among Hilonim, an equally lopsided share (89%) say the state should give preference to democratic principles; just 1% of secular Jewish respondents would yield to halakha.

Also interesting:

[quote] Israeli Jews are divided on the question of whether Arabs should be allowed to live in the Jewish state. The survey asked Jews whether they strongly agree, agree, disagree or strongly disagree with the statement that “Arabs should be expelled or transferred from Israel.” Roughly half of Israeli Jews strongly agree (21%) or agree (27%), while a similar share disagree (29%) or strongly disagree (17%).3

I’m sure the Arabs living in Israel get treated really well!

Jfc, who keeps talking to R223? We don't care. We're happy that terrorists are killed. We don't care if their fucking girlfriends also are killed. Fuck Hezbollah and Hamas. You don't give a fuck about the hostages from October 7th, that's fair. We don't give a fuck about these people. The best part is that one of those walkie talkies went off at one of the scumbag's funerals! Anyone who is still hanging out with these chodes should probably rethink their life choices.

During peace negotiations, Israel suggested land swaps, giving Arab villages within Israel to Palestine in exchange for Israeli settlements. The Arabs in the aforementioned villages objected. However Arabs are treated in Israel, it still beats being an Arab under Palestinian rule.

Does the anti Israel troll identify as a far left Nazi or a far right Nazi?

So now you want to dig through the poll and highlight whatever sounds bad? You can play that game alone.

And their war is our war, even on DL.

What kind of shitty life choices have you made if you're at a funeral for someone who was killed with a bomb, and another fucking bomb goes off? I hope some of the people there took a long, hard, look at themselves and the company they keep. Soon these assholes will have to send each other smoke signals, and I'm here for it.

R227 no, it’s relevant to what we were discussing. How Arabs that live in Israel are treated and viewed by Jewish Israelis. The fact that it “sounds bad” has nothing to do with me and is just the reality, sorry!

Not matter what you think of the morality and ethics of this, you have to concede that this was an extremely unique approach that was both cunning and ingenious.

R231 with that logic you could say the same of Oct 7th.

As a followup, I don’t care much about the ingenuity of terrorism.

[quote][R231] with that logic you could say the same of Oct 7th.

Don't be absurd - there is no continuity of the logic.

I'm not "approving" of the tactic. I'm merely pointing out that using pagers of all things which are rigged to explode was a unique approach.

Prior to this, would anyone think that something as innocuous as a pager could potentially cause such damage. In the future, we're all going to be looking twice at the electronic devices we carry because, unfortunately, now that it's out there, you know some lunatic is going to copycat it.

It’s not absurd at all, it’s about intelligence operations.

And yes I agree, thanks to Israel now a new form of existential terror has been introduced to all citizens of the world.

You live in terror that Israel has intercepted your pager shipment and inserted explosives?

A building in Lebanon with several walkie talkies exploding

Skeptical of that video

No R236 but it’s a new type of warfare, and will surely have consequential security effects.

NYT is saying that the pagers appeared to show a message from Hezbollah leadership immediately prior to exploding so there were a lot of eye and facial injuries. That’ll be hard to cover.

So clever

Are vibrators still safe?

Pagers are going to be banned on planes from now on, right?

Is Israel suicidal?

Israel actually made the pagers using a Hungarian front.

I love how much this has captured DL's imagination. We all secretly yearn for those simpler pre-smartphone times when pagers were all the rage, don't we?

Go Israel. Get those mother fuckers.

Israel detonated Hezbollah’s pagers early over fears that terror group had uncovered plot: reports

Additional sources claimed the decision to launch Wednesday’s follow-up attack, which saw thousands of Hezbollah walkie-talkie radios explode, was also sped up over concerns that the terrorists would ditch the devices following Tuesday’s surprise attack, according to Axios

The exploding devices killed at least 26 people — including at least two children — and left more than 3,200 others wounded, according to Lebanon’s health ministry.

The AR-924 pagers involved in the first wave of attacks were allegedly hijacked by Israel before they were imported to Lebanon, the New York Times reported, citing US and other officials briefed on the operation.

R246 my wife listed her her pager number in her magazine personal ad all those years ago so I do have a bit of nostalgia personally.

What’s next IDF? This technology would really be devastating if paired with a Time Machine. But I’ll settle for exploding hash pipe Thursday.

But not MY hash pipe.

Maybe the muslim world, and the world in general, will finally figure out that the Jews aren't taking shit anymore. They enriched every country they lived in, economical, culturally, scientifically, artistically, and all they got was violence and death. No more! And no more living by other people's rules. Jews knows muslims are instructed in th koran to kill Jews, just like their prophet of peace did. I think October 7th was a turning point, a realization that peace is not possible with Islam, a lesson the West must learn one way or another.

This was attack was pure genius. 100,000 Israelis have been displaced for months because of hezbollah. It has to end.

Some of the terrorists who had their nuts blown off were cute

Hezbollah needs to get their SHIT TOGETHER if they let thousands of essential, supposedly secure communication devices, be hijacked and altered by MOSSAD IDF. Hezbollah is a mess.

They bought the pagers from Mossad. See r245.

[quote] Hezbollah needs to get their SHIT TOGETHER if they let thousands of essential, supposedly secure communication devices, be hijacked and altered by MOSSAD IDF.

Everyone associated with Hezbollah needs to be killed, hopefully brutally, or severely maimed, period.

I love the fact that their was no hijack of devices. They were designed, built, marketed and sold directly by an Israeli front company. Scathingly brilliant.

Guess there are not a lot of options if you want to order thousands of pagers.

Now that’s what I call a supply chain problem.

Too bad vaping isn't a thing in Muslim countries.

This article is behind a firewall. Can someone please post it?

Here you go.

A writer for Haaretz has a rather sour take on the whole thing. The operation itself was brilliant and must have required extensive preparation. But he also thinks that the whole "Hezbollah was about to discover the plan" line is false, because it came out only a few hours after the first explosions. The explanation itself seemed pre-prepared.

To him, the planners of the operation probably envisioned that the exploding devices would happen as Israel staged a massive military attack on Hezbollah, to capitalize on the confusion. Why didn't that happen? He thinks that the explosion orders were given to present the Israeli public with an exciting, meme-able win. Never mind that perhaps years of intelligence work had been thrown away for only limited gain.

^^Sorry, I posted the wrong link. Here's the correct one:

I’d like to see Hezbollah ask Netanyahu, “Do you expect us to stop fighting?” and Netanyahu to reply, “No, Hezbollah, I expect you to die.”

For you r262

The REMFs almost always see war as good guys vs bad guys

Alex at R266 is cute but I'll informed. It is not about land, it is about exterminating the Jews and returning the land of Israel to islamic rule.

The islamic foundational texts are rife with Jew hatred, mohammade ordered and participated in the massacre of a Jewish tribe, first raping the women in front of their husbands then beheading all the men. Women and children were made slaves.

This is why the muslim protestors and their useful idiots in the west are calling for the genocide of Israeli Jews.

R262–anyone can post the link to a paywalled article at archive.ph. You don’t need to be a subscriber.

Very Old Testament

The efforts the BBC are making to downplay the Hezbollah link are incredible

[quote]The dead and injured in Lebanon include fighters from Hezbollah – the Iranian backed armed group which has been trading cross-border fire with Israel for months and is classed as a terrorist organisation by the UK and the US.

[quote]But members of their families have also been killed or wounded, along with innocent bystanders. Elias Jaradeh described the wounded he treated as looking "mostly civilian".

"Mostly civilian". You mean terrorists weren't dressed as terrorists? Amazing that Hezbollah are claiming all the victims are their own and yet the English speaking media are trying to downplay it.

It is absurd to say that explosions of devices that Hezbollah fighters are supposed to carry at all times injured “mostly civilians.”

R275

And since you are not there and have no clue it’s absurd to claim you know who they did not kill or wound. There are setting loose IDEs into home and civilian environments in order to kill the few you want killed.

And when they remotely set off the IEDs or mines they have absolutely no idea who might get killed.

It was an act of terror. And I say that with great respect for what they pulled off and the terror and confusion they must be causing. Because after all having your enemy terrorized and confused is usually a good thing.

But anyone with half an ounce of common sense or honesty would have known kids and wives and grandparents were going to become Kia or wia.

The small explosions were a tool for triangulating the precise location of weapons caches and installation which the Israelies are even as we speak now systematically targeting. Lots of bangs in an area = target.

[quote]The Israeli military just said it has been striking intensively in southern Lebanon over the past two hours. Since the afternoon, Israeli warplanes have hit 100 rocket launchers — some of which were ready to fire imminently — and other military targets in Lebanon, the military said in a statement.

--NYT

Given how few people were killed of the people actually holding the terrorist issue pagers even with the pagers up to their faces the civilians injured must have beenthisclose.

These were not IEDs or mines. They are very small explosive devices that are in the pockets of fighters. Stop lying.

R276 is a camel fucker, the baby mama of a camel fucker or lusts after camel fuckers from afar, impotently breaking his flaccid cock.

R282, allegedly it's not just bodies, at least one person was still alive.

R283 I just read that after I posted, I don’t know what to even think about that it’s so inhuman. What is it going to take for international leaders to start taking proper action?

Hopefully this will be the start of some meaningful change.

“The resolution was adopted in the UN General Assembly after receiving 124 votes in favor. Fourteen countries voted against, including the United States, Hungary, Israel, Argentina, Czechia, Fiji, Malawi, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Tonga, and Tuvalu. Forty-three nations abstained from the vote.

The vote comes after the UN’s top court, the International Court of Justice, said in July that Israel’s presence in the West Bank and East Jerusalem is illegal and called on Israel to end its decades-long occupation of territories claimed by Palestinians for a future state.”

R282

🍆🐪🍆

Why does Lebanon continue to harbor Hezbollah? Which Middle Eastern countries aren't supporters of terrorism?

[quote] Hopefully this will be the start of some meaningful change.

Pfft!

R287, Hezbollah is now a part of the Lebanese government. Proxy wars have been the way to go all over the world for a long time. A lot of mistakes over the past few decades, both by the U.S. and Israel, have greatly strengthened the hand of Iran.

[quote]Meanwhile, here’s video of the IOF

Your credibility is immediately destroyed with that abbreviation.

Not actually—

Mainstream outlets starting to pick up on it now. What say ye, DL pro Israel commenters, about this? From the “most moral army in the world” or so I’ve been told.

[quote]Cynthia Nixon is going on hunger strike in solidarity with the exploded Hezbollah testicles.

Every raisin bagel across the planet will be sighing with relief at this news.

R70, Please review for homework: Who were targeted?

Kill all those terrorists.

Both "Sword of Gideon" and "Munich," each about Israel's vengeance for Munich 1972, are two of my favorite films. Same with the 4-part "Ghosts of Beirut ."

My point is that I would really like to see a movie about the ingenious conception and completion of these cellphone attacks, though I think the success will mean Mossad's up-close-and-personal attacks will continue with methods kept unknown.

Who's striking fear now, eh?

Lebanon was the last Christian majority country in the Middle East well into the 60s and 70s. It was once know as the Paris of the ME.

If the west doesn't want to learn an important lesson from the past 1,400 years, perhaps it will learn an existential lesson from the past 60 years before it is too late.

R294 I say, who cares? They're already fucking dead. Would you like the soldiers to kiss them gently and embalm them really quick? You people here who hate Jews, go ahead and hate them. You do anyhow, you don't need our opinions on them, you're not going to get me to say, "oh fuck, never mind, I didn't realize that those terrorists were hit in the eye with a piece of their pager! This changes everything!" and people that hang out with terrorists, and even their kids, are more than likely also terrorists or going to be terrorists. I'll start caring about the civilians and the kids there when Hezbollah does, which is to say, never.

r253 Just a small point of correction. The Koran doesn't instruct Muslims to kill Jews. Jews and Christians are referred to as "people of the Book" in the Quran and are considered a "protected class" (Dhimmi). Historically , they were frequently forced to live in defined parts of Muslim cities and to pay extra taxes, but otherwise were usually not molested. Throughout most of Muslim history, Jews were far better treated in Muslim countries than in Christian countries. It is only since the creation of the country of Israel and the displacement of Palestinians living in what is now Israel that the middle eastern Muslim countries ganged up on Israel and general anti-Jewish sentiment has been fomented in those areas.

That being said, I have no sympathy for the Hezbollah members who have been injured by their pagers . Hezbollah is a terrorist organization and has done terrible things for decades. In 1983, a Hezbollah suicide bomber blew himself up at the gates of an American marine barracks near Beirut, killing 241 US personnel. They are reaping what they have sowed.

Islamic Hadith:

“The Hour will not begin until you fight the Jews, until a Jew will hide behind a rock or a tree, and the rock or tree will say: ‘O Muslim, O slave of Allah, here is a Jew behind me; come and kill him – except the gharqad"

R301, And Reagan suffered no consequences for this sitting-ducks situation, even though Hezbollah had just 6 months prior bombed our embassy!

But I take issue, r301, with your condensed version of Islamic hatred of Jews. It began long before 1948.

The following is worth reading in full, but here anyway is the final point:

That when one cites that Jews could live and work in Muslim countries what is often overlooked is that such Islamic "tolerance" was because the Jews paid what amounted to "protection money," like merchants in a Mob neighborhood. They were Second-Class citizens.

This is why you don't carry devices in your shirt pocket over your heart.

Not r301 but must note that he did correctly state that non-Muslims, people of the Book like Christians and Jews, were tolerated as long as they paid a dhimmi tax.

What I take issue with is r301 ascribing Islamic militancy solely to the establishment of Israel in 1948. The anti-West Muslim Brotherhood was established long before that, in the 1920s, and carried out political assassinations against Egypt's ruling party. IIRC, there was another burst of Islamic militancy in the 1980s, + the Iran revolution in 1979 ousting West-backed Shah.

Some Muslim countries in the ME have accepted Israel's existence, mostly the Sunni ones. Shia Iran and its satellites want israel's total destruction. (Hamas is Sunni but ofc accepts Iran support).

Prospects for 2 state solution in Gaza/israel looking pretty dim at this point.

R306, to be fair, it's been decades since there have been any discussions about a two-state solution.

Since they made a deal and the Palestinians balked at fulfilling it.

[quote]It is only since the creation of the country of Israel . . . general anti-Jewish sentiment has been fomented in those areas.

Please see: Farhoud, Day of the Ditch, other various massacres in Islamic Spain, Damascus affair, Allahdad incident, throwing stones at Jews (why does that sound so familiar?), and the1912 pogrom in Fez for starters.

One purpose of the attack is now clear. The elimination of their communications system required senior Hezbollah leaders to meet in person. Israel blew them up.

Damage may have been far more extensive than previously acknowledged.

FWIW

R311 Lmao

Some on Twitter say they think the document I just posted is a forgery.

Someone says the account that originally posted it confirmed it is a forgery. Sorry.

As if we couldn’t figure that out..

[quote] Damage may have been far more extensive than previously acknowledged.

There have been some in the press who have acted like they couldn’t understand why Israel took this action. It was always clear. It was to reduce the effectiveness of a terrorist organization by literally killing or crippling its members en masse. It’s not rocket science to understand.

Actually, it appears that it was designed to force leaders of Hezbollah to meet in person and get blown up.

One of the people taken out by Israel today was someone who the U.S. had previously sanctioned for his involvement in the 1983 bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Beirut and the U.S. Marine Corps barracks.

This shows one again that Israel’s enemies happen to also be the enemies of the United States, and when Israel takes actions against them, it helps us.

They're going to start using their wives, children and extended families who are non-combatants to become message couriers. No landlines, no cell phones, no walkie talkies. Is there another alternative? I'm sure the leadership will encourage it. I don't know how the remaining able bodied fighters feel about it. Would they put supposed loved ones in danger?

Then their wives, children and extended families who are non-combatants are gonna be maimed or die.

In Lebanon, as Israel picked off senior Hezbollah commandos with targeted assassinations, their leader came to a conclusion: If Israel was going high-tech, Hezbollah would go low. It was clear, a distressed Hezbollah chief, Hassan Nasrallah, said, that Israel was using cellphone networks to pinpoint the locations of his operatives.

He had been pushing for years for Hezbollah to invest instead in pagers, which for all their limited capabilities could receive data without giving away a user’s location or other compromising information, according to American intelligence assessments.

Israeli intelligence officials saw an opportunity.

Even before Mr. Nasrallah decided to expand pager usage, Israel had put into motion a plan to establish a shell company that would pose as an international pager producer.

By all appearances, B.A.C. Consulting was a Hungary-based company that was under contract to produce the devices on behalf of a Taiwanese company, Gold Apollo. In fact, it was part of an Israeli front, according to three intelligence officers briefed on the operation. They said at least two other shell companies were created as well to mask the real identities of the people creating the pagers: Israeli intelligence officers.

B.A.C. did take on ordinary clients, for which it produced a range of ordinary pagers. But the only client that really mattered was Hezbollah, and its pagers were far from ordinary. Produced separately, they contained batteries laced with the explosive PETN, according to the three intelligence officers.

The pagers began shipping to Lebanon in the summer of 2022 in small numbers, but production was quickly ramped up after Mr. Nasrallah denounced cellphones.

Some of Mr. Nasrallah’s fears were spurred by reports from allies that Israel had acquired new means to hack into phones, activating microphones and cameras remotely to spy on their owners. According to three intelligence officials, Israel had invested millions in developing the technology, and word spread among Hezbollah and its allies that no cellphone communication — even encrypted messaging apps — was safe anymore.

Not only did Mr. Nasrallah ban cellphones from meetings of Hezbollah operatives, he ordered that the details of Hezbollah movements and plans never be communicated over cellphones, said three intelligence officials. Hezbollah officers, he ordered, had to carry pagers at all times, and in the event of war, pagers would be used to tell fighters where to go.

The little girl who died, did so because her father, who was supposed to carry the pager at all times didn’t and left his in the kitchen. She picked it up to bring it to him when it started beeping. He’s a failure as both an employee and a father.

[quote]I love how much this has captured DL's imagination. We all secretly yearn for those simpler pre-smartphone times when pagers were all the rage, don't we?

Getting pages from friends to meet at "the club" as they got ready for a night out, moussing their hair, watching Dynasty and then it was time to go!

Bye bye Mohammed!

BOOM!

[quote]The little girl who died, did so because her father, who was supposed to carry the pager at all times didn’t and left his in the kitchen. She picked it up to bring it to him when it started beeping. He’s a failure as both an employee and a father.

Well given he's a Hezbollah terrorist he's pretty much a failure as a human being, so no surprise his parenting is less than optimal

[quote]R321 He had been pushing for years for Hezbollah to invest instead in pagers, which for all their limited capabilities could receive data without giving away a user’s location or other compromising information

Imagine devoting one's life to figuring out ways to terrorize innocent people and brutally torture and murder them because they don't believe like you do. Terrorism is unequivocally evil.

^ And undeniably stupid and short-sighted.

Can you imagine the fear sweeping Lebanon? Part of the point, of course, to try to get average citizens to reject Islamists who are attracting death to their precarious state. How deeply entrenched are Hezbollah in Lebanese government?

Do alleged Hezbollah fighters claim day jobs?

The pro-Palestinian people are reminding me more and more of the people who stand outside abortion clinics with huge posters of mutilated fetuses screaming “Abortion is Murder!” They use the specter of dead children to try and bring a complete end to a very necessary process. They don’t care about the millions of women needing abortions who will suffer and sometimes die. They just care about their cause. They themselves aren’t pregnant and therefore have no dog in the race. But if faced with the terror of it all would probably pull the trigger if it came down to their own safety.

Great analogy R329. And very perceptive. I might steal it for my own use in future discussions on this matter if you dont mind

Yes r329 because committing mass murder to steal someone else’s land is certainly a “very necessary process.”

Talk about gaslighting — there’s nothing more fascist than Israel. Trump adores Israel and so do those protestors outside abortion clinics, you nitwit.

And of course v8fairy as braindead as usual.

[Quote] Can you imagine the fear sweeping Lebanon?

Yes that’s the usual goal of terrorism.

[Quote] Part of the point, of course, to try to get average citizens to reject Islamists

No it’s not, “of course.” The goal is to goad hezbollah into retaliation so Israel can commit mass murder in an entirely different locale, using laser guided bombs and missiles, of course, like the cowards they are.

R331 and R332 Go fuck yourself. You are not convinicing any of us and we don't give a shit about the fucking hezbollah terrorists.

R331 and R332 are pro-terrorists (Hamas lovers).

[quote] to steal someone else’s land

Land does not belong to any one ethnic group. People fight over it all over the world and throughout history. You’re just picking a side for your own reasons and covering your subjective preference in an objective costume.

Israeli soldiers have acted terribly, as happens in many wars. While that is troubling, I have not seen evidence that it is an Israeli military strategy. There is plenty of evidence that Hamas and Hezbollah expect their soldiers (and often their citizens) to act with cruelty and barbarity. For example, Hebrew translations of “take off your pants” or “women here” in Oct 7 guides.

Israel is held to standards higher than any other military force. Whereas Gazans performing sexual assault is an act of resistance.

“IED”

R280 do you have any fucking idea what IED stands for? —-Improvised Explosive Device.

You want to call me a liar when I refer to exploding pages and such as IEDs ?

REMFs

IED nano

Someone above mentioned the killing of the Lebanese mastermind of the bombing of the USMC Barracks. A terrible and large loss of Marines and sailors. And so glad they got him.

But here is the thing. That barracks was not at 8th and I. It was in Lebanon. They were not bombed because they were Marines they were bombed because they were Marines in Lebanon

And your point is R339?

[quote] You want to call me a liar when I refer to exploding pages and such as IEDs ?

Certainly not.

An idiot.

There was nothing “improvised” about those devices. They were designed and manufactured for a very specific mission.

The marines were in Lebanon as peacekeepers.

R339's point is Reagan did nothing about it. In fact, he was big on negotiating with terrorists.

Oh they lobbed a few fifteen inch shells at Beirut, but nothing major.

R342

And in VN the Marines were there to save democracy and provide freedom.

If we are going to deploy US troops into foreign countries we have to understand that our troops may be at risk. If foreign troops wanted to set up camp in the U.S. we would not be happy.

We may have great reasons for risking our troops by stationing them in countries that don’t want us. But at risk we put them.

The problem with the barracks bombing was not that those whose country we now occupy would possibly attack us.

The problem was that the orders coming down from DC was that those Marines and those particular guards would stand their post with unloaded weapons. The Marine guards would have stopped that truck cold if they had been armed.

The death of those marines and sailors rests with those that set the ROE.

R331 is either gullible enough or dumb enough to think this is actually about land and not some crazy crackpot version of Islam. Israel could reduce its footprint to the size of postage stamp and their terrorist neighbors would still want them dead. I don't get what is so hard to understand about that. With enemy neighbors like that I would be trying to get as big of a buffer zone as I could too.

R331 / r332 = 🍆🐪🍆

A good op-ed piece in the NYTimes by the famous Jewish thinker Michael Walzer about why this pretty much constitutes an appalling war crime on israel's part.

I used the "gift" function so I hope this should be aavilable to everyone here.

Israel’s Pager Bombs Have No Place in a Just War

By Michael Walzer

The exploding pagers and walkie-talkies targeting members of Hezbollah in Lebanon were certainly an espionage and technological coup. Few people on the spot or reading about them from far away could fail to be amazed. But the explosions on Tuesday and Wednesday were also very likely war crimes — terrorist attacks by a state that has consistently condemned terrorist attacks on its own citizens.

Yes, the devices most probably were being used by Hezbollah operatives for military purposes. This might make them a legitimate target in the continuous cross-border battles between Israel and Hezbollah. But the attacks, which killed at least 37 people and wounded thousands of others, came when the operatives were not operating; they had not been mobilized and they were not militarily engaged. Rather, they were at home with their families, sitting in cafes, shopping in food markets — among civilians who were randomly killed and injured.

Israel has neither confirmed nor denied responsibility for the attacks but is widely believed to be behind them. If those allegations are true, it is important for friends of Israel to say: This was not right.

The theory of just war depends heavily on the distinction between combatants and civilians. In contemporary warfare, these two groups are often mixed together in the same spaces — often, indeed, deliberately mixed together, because the killing of civilians invites moral condemnation. The war that Hamas designed in Gaza is a grim illustration of the strategy of putting civilians at risk for political gain. Still, a military responding to this strategy has to do everything it can to avoid or minimize civilian casualties. Israel claims to be doing that in Gaza, although serious criticism of its conduct there has appeared in media around the world, not to mention a case brought against Israeli and Hamas officials alike at the International Criminal Court alleging war crimes and crimes against humanity.

No similar claim of minimizing risk to civilians can be made for the decision to explode the devices. They were not distributed by Hezbollah in order to put its people at risk. This was not a plot to force Israel to kill or injure civilians. The plot was Israel’s, and the plotters had to know that at least some of the people hurt would be innocent men, women and children. (cont.)

(cont.) Israel’s recent assassinations of Hamas and Hezbollah leaders requires a more complicated, but still critical, political and moral response. These were men actively supporting terrorist attacks on Israel, who certainly knew themselves to be targets — I would say legitimate targets — of assassins who could be operating from close up or far away. But when a government authorizes the killing of men it is directly or indirectly negotiating with, such as the Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh in July, we have to conclude that the government isn’t committed to the negotiations’ success. That is politically and morally wrong, not only from the standpoint of the large number of Israeli citizens (including my friends in Israel) who are strongly, even desperately, committed to ending the war and bringing the hostages home, but also from the standpoint of all the victims of the Gaza war.

However, let me make a distinction here. Condemning an act of war is not the same as condemning the war itself. Hamas and Hezbollah are fighting against Israel for an immoral and unjust purpose: the elimination of the Jewish state. Long ago, Abba Eban called this the crime of policide. In his day, Israel’s enemies were motivated by a nationalist determination to reverse (literally) the nakba, the flight and expulsion of Palestinians in 1948 from what became Israel. Today, the goal is religiously driven and zealously pursued. That this crime has found supporters and apologists in the United States and Europe, often among secular leftists, is even more amazing than the exploding pagers. So it is important to distinguish the judgments we make about the conduct of war from the judgments we make about the decision to go to war.

Hamas’s terrorist attack on Oct. 7 was meant to start a war, and Israel’s response, though Hamas expected it and wanted it, was nonetheless justified. It is hard to imagine any country responding differently. Hezbollah in Lebanon joined Hamas almost immediately by lobbing rockets into northern Israel continually but also carefully, seemingly intending a limited engagement. In this way it has been supporting its Islamist ally, despite their Sunni-Shia differences, without committing itself to full-scale war.

Israel has helped maintain those limits with its own controlled responses, although it has not refrained from targeting Hezbollah commanders. The result has been the forced evacuation of destroyed towns and villages on each side of the Israel-Lebanon border, without significant damage to the rest of the countries. But the exchanges have become deadlier, and pressure has been building in Israel (which is, unlike Lebanon, a functioning democracy where political pressure is possible) to act in a stronger way to make the northern border communities safe. Perhaps the exploding electronic devices represented an attempt at strong action. I can’t believe it will make anyone safer. It invites retribution, and even if retribution is for the moment difficult, the desire for revenge won’t go away. (cont.)

(cont.) What the attacks demonstrate with blinding clarity is the importance of a political solution to the war in the north, which can only come along with some kind of cease-fire in the south. A catastrophic war with Lebanon is now the greater danger, but what began on Oct. 7 must be dealt with first to avoid it.

At this moment, any political proposal is bound to be called naïve. Leaders on both sides seem to believe that war is the only way forward. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel has said as much. Hamas’s leader, Yahya Sinwar, and the leader of Hezbollah, Hassan Nasrallah, are committed to a policy of doing whatever it takes to destroy Israel, even if what it takes is eternal war.

One war may be just and the other unjust, but today anyone who aims at continuing the fight must be condemned. The victims of the exploding pagers and walkie-talkies, the general amazement at what is possible in war today, the fear of what will come tomorrow — all this proves the necessity of a political solution. ###

I find Walzer’s argument intellectually incoherent. Hezbollah was engaging in attacks on Israeli civilians at the time of the pager explosions. Surely, fighting back is justified even at the cost of some civilian casualties. The argument that the fighters “were not on the battlefield “ is ridiculous. There is no “battlefield” in this fight.

He acknowledges that Israel’s bombing in Gaza is potentially morally justified even though it has killed far more civilians. Yet somehow this targeted attack is a war crime because he claims no attempts were made to distinguish civilians from fighters. This is factually inaccurate. The devices were military equipment personally carried by Hezbollah personnel. The size of the explosions was small enough to limit damage to people nearby as the videos show. This plot shows far more concern for avoiding civilian casualties than almost any other conceivable military action against these fights. Certainly more than launching missiles or dropping bombs.

Ultimately, his arguments are strategic (“I can’t believe it will make anyone safer. It invites retribution, and even if retribution is for the moment difficult, the desire for revenge won’t go away.) posing as a moral argument.

[quote] Israel has helped maintain those limits with its own controlled responses

lol. Graphic at the end of this article shows that Israel have launched attacks to Lebanon at a ratio of 5:1 versus those from Lebanon. As with everything in this conflict, Israel are the aggressors, and action is disproportionate.

Gay people actually defending Muslim terrorists? WTF?

R353, that not how this works. Lebanon started the attacks. Just because England had fewer casualties and less destruction than Germany doesn’t mean the British were the aggressors.

[quote] Lebanon started the attacks.

Israel started it back in ‘82.

Of course DL'ers are siding with the Islamic terrorists. They've been brainwashed by the extreme left. Islam good; Jews bad.

DL’ers are hardly monolithic R357.

Exactly, R358. Say it again for those constantly accusing most DLers of being pro-Hamas terrorist supporters over and over again when they disagree with someone else's opinion.

[quote] Lebanon started the attacks.

[quote]Israel started it back in ‘82.

Sarah started it when she made Hagar an outcast!

Just the title of the Op Ed piece told me Michael is an idiot. Just war? What privileged bubble is he mentally masturbating in?

[quote]Of course DL'ers are siding with the Islamic terrorists. They've been brainwashed by the extreme left. Islam good; Jews bad.

Only a very few R357, and I see R331/ R332 have already been downvoted into oblivion. And I suspect the very few here that ARE siding with Islamic terrorists are not DL'ers at all but trolls

r5

[quote]Perhaps Israel had access to the supply chain if these were uniform devices distributed to Hezbollah fighters.[/quote]

I think this is what happened. In my opinion, the extensive supply chains in our world are vulnerable to being disrupted. Perhaps, with the help of AI, it could become more financially viable to shift towards local manufacturing.

R363 that's exactly what happened - the Hungarian company that made the pagers was effectively a Mossad front.

But I dont think we need to worry about it unless you're a terrorist or associate with one

[quote] I see [R331]/ [R332] have already been downvoted into oblivion

What is this process? I am set on as “asbestos eyeballs,” but I can’t see them in my feed. I didn’t know people posts could be disappeared.

R365 Post something REALLY fucking idiotic / offensive and the post gets so many downvotes that it becomes invisible even to those with asbestos eyeballs. But if you hover over the post number in one of the replies/ insults aimed at the poster you will still see the original post

Differences of opinion are not allowed by our pro Israel commenters.

The only times I’ve been downvoted into a timeout were for pro-Israel posts, so the intolerance is bilateral. I disagree with the censored posts, but they should not be censored.

[quote]Just the title of the Op Ed piece told me Michael is an idiot.

He has a Ph. D., from Harvard, is Professor Emeritus at princeton's Institute of Advance study, and is an editor emeritus at Dissent Magazine. To date, he has written 27 books and published over 300 articles, essays, and book reviews in Dissent, The New Republic, The New York Review of Books, The New Yorker, The New York Times, Harpers, Quillette, and many philosophical and political science journals.

And your own credentials?

[quote]Just war?

Here you go, honey, since you don't seem to be well read:

[quote] princeton's Institute of Advance study,

Sorry, that should have read: "Princeton's Institute of Advanced Study."

U.S. warning citizens to leave.

“At this time, commercial flights are available, but at reduced capacity. If the security situation worsens, commercial options to depart may become unavailable.

If you choose to remain in Lebanon, be prepared to shelter in place should the situation deteriorate further.

The U.S. Embassy strongly encourages U.S. citizens in Southern Lebanon, near the borders with Syria, and/or in refugee settlements to depart those areas immediately.”

Lebanon was once a pretty lovely country, for the Middle East. A shame what happened.

That’s what happens when religious nutters and terrorists take over your country.

Just like the thugs want to do here.

Well. Even extensively published individuals can be questioned. Here's Michael Walzer's Dissent Magazine:

[quote]Although Dissent still identifies with the democratic socialism of its founders, including Lewis A. Coser and Rose Laub Coser,[4] its editors and contributors represent a broad spectrum of left positions: from the Marxist humanism of Marshall Berman and Leszek Kołakowski, to the social democratic revisionism of Richard Rorty and Michael Walzer …

(per Wikipedia)

I find it amusing. They asked for it, they got it.

I'm appalled anything thinks Israel is trying to goad Hezbollah into a war. Hezbollah has been firing missiles into Israel since October 2023. Israel fought back with a tightly targeted operation. It's a shame a little girl died. But a full-out war would have killed many more children.

If people are outraged about civilian deaths, they should encourage peace negotiations.

You fuck with the Jews and you find out. These asshole terrorists just need to realize that and move on.

No to negotiations. Kill and maim as many terrorists as they can.

That tough talk may make you feel good, but they’ve been fucking with the Jews forever, and will not stop. Iran and its proxies are not fighting for the Palestinians. They are fighting against the Jews. They hide behind saying they are against Zionists, not Jews. That is a cynical lie. It is hatred that drives them.

[quote] The only times I’ve been downvoted into a timeout were for pro-Israel posts, so the intolerance is bilateral. I disagree with the censored posts, but they should not be censored.

Just FYI, a single poster who disagrees with you can track all your post across Datalounge on any number of topics, FF those post and send you into timeout for 24 hours. I recently was debating one person in another thread and forgot to WW my own post to counterbalance their attack on me and I was sent into timeout. It’s happening more and more as people can’t handle a healthy debate and just want to silence you in revenge.

^^it's just a bullshit forum. Get a fucking life you dipshit.

Interesting that we have so many tough talking let’s kill the fuckers here who would never enlist to serve and or fight themselves. And of course that goes for those on both sides,

Um no, it's only one side that acts fucking militant about it. Queers for Palestine assholes would never actually GO there.

^ exactly, R383. Lots of Hamas and Hezbollah fan boys on here.

R383 we are a forum of talkers. We are not going any fucking place to do any fucking thing. We are not going to fight anyone ever. Not for our own country, not for the Jews, not for the anyone else.

The Greatest Generation of Tough Talkers

R319, Wait until Israel manages to poison their Carrier Pigeon feed!

Stop projecting, r385.

R382 you do realize many of the posters here were not allowed to serve in the military when we were the age to join the military?

I want this movie NOW!

R388

We have had military leaders that have had the top spot in their military service that were almost certainly gay men. Millions of gay men have found a way to serve.

And as far as lesbians serving ——the military has for a long time had softball teams that needed players.

Like Trump those that did not serve always have a reason why. Usually 2 or 3. But that does not stop trump like tough talk given on the Internet.

R387

Sorry I missed what you said while I was looking at my this month’s combat disability deposit from the VA you are so kind to help pay for.

And don’t think I am not happy to get and spend your tax dollars

Thanks again

R390, you’re suggesting that gays should have ignored the law and just joined? Effectively blaming gays for their own discrimination nice.

It wasn’t that easy. Not only did you have to lie to get in (until Don’t Ask Don’t Tell), but you could get kicked out if someone wanted to denounce you. This happened to a friend of mine.

Security clearances also could be denied if you were gay. The primary victims of the Red Scare were gays rather than communists. But you seem to think all these people just should have gritted their teeth and carried on.

R390 maybe people who had always been closeted could serve. But those of us who were already out in high school certainly couldn’t. Anyway it’s an ignorant and insensitive thing to post. You must be straight or very young and uneducated.

R393 Gays patriotic gays have been serving their country in the military since before there there was a country. At least one went on to get the #1 position in their service.

Since 1993 over 30 years , gay men and women have been able to serve. For going on two decades now they have been able to serve openly. I get it hardly anyone in america wants to serve their country on AD. They want the protections and they will bitch and moan if things go wrong but they are not going to do the fucking service.

And that is not just military it's also police fire peace corps america corps —-we are a country that needs immigrants to do the jobs the lazy cowardly me me fucks we already have won’t do.

This is where most gays and most straights and the entire Trump family all have something in common. More talk more bitching and complaining less doing anything.

The average age of a DL poster is over 50. Over twelve thousand gay people were discharged from the US military for being gay after 1993. I’ll add innumerate to insensitive and ignorant. Take your insults elsewhere.

[quote]R382 you do realize many of the posters here were not allowed to serve in the military when we were the age to join the military?

Respectfully ElderLez:

Agree with R60. This is monstrous . The film clip depicts terrified citizens, regular people. Why should they be killed ?

I’ve had arguments with fellow Jews who say, “ they’re all Hezbollah. They want to destroy Israel .” BS.

We are all people first. Would you like to be pigeon holed as a representative of the fucking US govt., and all the crimes US committed in the name of first .

I am an outspoken critic of Hamas, Hezbollah and the like . Other countries need not resort to inhuman tactics , like blowing up kids fingers at outdoor markets . Bombing them is not enough ????

“ if we don’t learn to live together as brothers , we will perish together as fools.” MLK

R397 sadly there has been war and combat since the beginning of human time. War and combat is part of our past and our DNA.

It’s also going to be a part of our future. It’s never going away. What we can hope is that it does not get totally out of hand like it has previously.

I mean no disrespect to the many, many gay people who have served R396.

Many of us on this site came of age post-Stonewall and were out of the closet, but pre- gay people being able to serve in the US military.

Don’t worry ElderLez, r394 just talked themselves into a corner and are now too embarrassed to admit they were wrong and now is just doubling down. Not only were gay people not allowed to serve in the military, those thought to be gay were routinely victimized.

As someone who was also out in high school, I could not join the military, nor could I apply for a job with any security clearance. My entire family was military, so I figured that I’d try for the CIA or State Department. I earned a minor in Russian politics, only to be rejected for any sensitive job because I could not pass a security clearance.

[quote] The film clip depicts terrified citizens, regular people. Why should they be killed ?

They weren’t.

It’s impossible to live in a war zone without being terrified. Why is it a war zone? Because they host an Iran-backed proxy army which most of them enthusiastically support. That army is firing missiles into Israeli cities making them uninhabitable.

“We are all people first” is a nice thought for another world.

R400 no corner at all. I realize it’s not an easy black and white issue. I served with gay men in combat I had friends that were kicked out because they might have been gay.

But most who don’t serve in our military also don’t serve any other fucking way. Other than taxes and talk.

We have a country of bitchers and complainers whose main contribution to making things better is bitching and complaining.

The US military has a great and significant recruiting shortage today. Most of the country today gay and straight agrees with the Trumps as far as military service.

They're all like bratty children who can't get along in that region.

It's just a shame there's no one who can take their toys off all of them and put them in time out.

R403 you are speaking under the premise of extremely broad and sweeping generalizations. You have no idea of how any of us "Serve" our country. You, having served yourself, should know the dangers of attacking from assumptions.

R404, Israel is trying their damnedest. It's amazing me to that the ONLY country that upholds the principles of freedom that the extreme left says they represent is the ONE country that is being attacked by the extreme left. The way they treat woman as chattel alone, bombs or no bombs, would seem the make the extreme left reconsider their position.

Weren't these the same people rending their clothes in the streets and pouring ashes over their head for the death of the Iranian girl Mahsa Amini in the months before Oct 7th?

Of the 37 people killed by the pagers and walkie-talkies exploding, 12 were civilians who were not Hezbollah members.

This is sick.

Yes R406, indeed they were. These people are also screeching about a woman's right to choose, just like how women can choose abortion in Iran. They want to abolish the death penalty and prisons in general. Just like in Iran. They want gay marriage legalized, just like in Iran. Oh wait, none of that goes down in Iran! It's almost like they're talking out of their asses.

R407 yes, we know, it's so sick. Please continue to pop in this thread and gnash your teeth and wail. We'll be waiting for you to come back anytime any Jewish people are killed in Gaza.

R406 Eh, they're no better, they're just richer and want money off the west, hence the 'western values'. They're no fools, I'll give them that.

Is America better than Iran R409 in your opinion?

[QUOTE]also don’t serve any other fucking way.

Wow. Incredibly presumptuous bordering on a mean-spirited superiority complex

R410. No. Next question.

Where do you live r412? And why?

[quote] Of the 37 people killed by the pagers and walkie-talkies exploding, 12 were civilians who were not Hezbollah members.

[quote]This is sick.

What a coincidence.

R410 are you fucking serious? Iran is a theocratic dictatorship, rating a 2/20 on the Democracy Index, lower than Russia, China, Libya or Zimbabwe. Only Afghanistan, North Korea, Myanmar, Laos, Yemen, Syria, Turkmenistan, Congo, Chad and the Central African Republic

Yes America is far from perfect but its sort of free for the most part and is more or less democratic. Not the best by any means, but far from the worst. But by any rational measure, its far far better than Iran. But if you think Iran is so bloody lovely you may as well go live there

I'm in the UK and I'm not gonna listen to loads of "U, S, A!" Trumpian type patrotism.

Yes, saying the U.S. is better than Iran is obviously an insane level of patriotism, dingbat r416.

R414 Oh damn. Now let's wait to hear, over and over, how sick it is that those Jewish people were just killed.

Yeah, R407 has nothing to say about that. But it includes children. And still nothing from the hamas dick riders in this thread. Which shows me what I already knew, R407 and her ilk give not a fuck about anyone being killed, really. They just don't like Jews. And on a site famous for looking at children and people with children, with some general derision and scorn (oh fank you, you fixded my burger), the whole fucking hand wringing about any children being victims rings incredibly hollow. But maybe I'm wrong, maybe they care deeply about children, let's go to any thread that mentions a child in a republican part of the state dying and see if there are numerous posts talking about how sad it is that a kid died.

Oh, just the UK which subjugated half the known world and six of the seven continents through violence, terrorism and death well up through the 20th century? A country who, through a racist right-wing party decided to go it alone, but ultimately shot themselves in the foot, forgetting they were an island with no real trade agreements to cover their citizens basic needs without having them pay an arm and leg to survive?That is where you've decided to call home with your strong beliefs r416? You're not gonna listen to us? Well, we definitely don't need to hear from you. Talk about hyporcrite.

Svetlana didn't get her Russian Cheerios this morning. Maybe she can push a dissident off a balcony to recover her mood.

Anyone who says the United States is no better than Iran is obviously trolling.

Oh christ, the pro hamas guy is also the "russian troll" guy? That never stops being clever.

Fuck I meant to say at R415 " Only Afghanistan, North Korea, Myanmar, Laos, Yemen, Syria, Turkmenistan, Congo, Chad and the Central African Republic are lower than Iran on the Democracy Index" And Iran is 2/10 not 2/20. Still a shit regime

And if you dont like the last democracy index I posted here's another from Freedom House. Iran rates 11/100 on that one (Not Free), again lower than all but a bunch of other total dictatorships and theocracies

R419 There was no deciding to call it home, I was born and raised here. Should I tell my mother off for giving birth to me on this island?

But it's funny because anti British comments exude from most Americans and then they get annoyed that the rest of the world doesn't exactly hold them in high regard.

And I didn't say Iran was better than the USA, I just meant both have blood on their hands and delight in warmongering.

A just war with islamic terrorist groups, R369? Yes, he's an idiot. I know history and I have what he doesn't, common sense.

R424, I am an American, but I don't live in America. I didn't leave over political beliefs. But as a grown ass adult I was able to move to a place that better suited who I am as a person. You are grown too. You don't have to tell your mother anything. But with your strong beliefs you could have made the choice to leave a country which is so diametrically opposed to your hatred of "warmongering countries with blood on their hands," as you put it - and there is none bigger than the UK. And we are talking 100s of years. But you didn't. Instead you sit on your ass and you type out hypocritical statements while choosing not to act on your personal beliefs when it comes to your own life.

R426 I’m staying where my job, family and friends are thanks. Which I think is eminently sensible and my choice. I don’t care where strangers live.

Some people on here so weird.

R427, given the choices you have made in your own life then, I would suggest you stop being so flippant with your commentary.

I'm not sure he's an idiot r425, but he's falling into a stupid intellectual trap: mistaking the letter of the law or some grand theory for reality. He seems willing to let big brutalities happen and focus on minor things based on who is following some legal code. It happens all the time in America's legal system, replacing actual justice with some convoluted legalistic bullshit. I can see why Israel has no intention of falling into that trap, especially when it's fighting for its existence.

[quote] when it's fighting for its existence.

lol. Killing kids en masse and committing war crimes day after day isn’t fighting for its existence.

It's fighting people who have been clear day after day, year after year, that their one and only goal is eliminating the state of Israel and the all the Jews in Israel r430. It's fighting for its existence against those people.

However, I'm not sure its actual tactics and strategy in Gaza right now are serving that goal. In fact, I'm not sure there is a strategy in Gaza right now. If there is, I'd love to know what it is.

[quote] It's fighting for its existence against those people.

No it’s not. They’re just killing kids and civilians en masse. Over 20,000 at this point.

[quote]lol. Killing kids en masse and committing war crimes day after day isn’t fighting for its existence.

Those kids would just grow up to be terrorists anyway.

And if they didn't, they'd be hightailing it to Western Europe to live on the dole for the rest of their lives.

It's really for the best.

[quote] But as a grown ass adult I was able to move to a place that better suited who I am as a person.

Well aren't you just so goddamned SPECIAL.

You couldn’t have a better illustration of why this fight rages on than r432 and r433, who each throw gasoline on the flames from different sides of the fire.

R435 you can’t honestly equate my comment which is saying 20000 murdered children is bad with the other commenter saying 20000 murdered children is good. I don’t know what is wrong with you people. You’re broken.

R431, Israel is not fighting for its existence. Iran has plenty of problems on its plate right now. It believes that Israel's demise is foreordained and will happen in 2040. It's got time, and I assume that the next ayatollah can kick the can further down the road when the time comes. Hezbollah has said that it will stand down if there is a ceasefire in Gaza. As for Gaza itself, I have no idea what is going to happen. I can't imagine that Israel has the ability or desire to occupy both Gaza and the West Bank.

R435, you said Israel is only killing civilians and children en masse, which is a ridiculous claim that requires some deep preconception to even state. In fact, you never actually said what you claim, which is that civilian and child casualties are bad,. Which you also frame as murder, as though there is clear intent to kill children and not the embedded, undifferentiated military fighters of Hamas. You are the one who is broken.

R438 I didn’t say that. You’re projecting.

Interesting that you’re more consumed with complaining about me and not a word about the your fellow pro Israel commenter that said it’s “for the best” that 20000 children have been murdered. Again, you are a broken person. And there is clear intent to kill children.

Why do these motherfuckers hate Jews so much? Seriously.

[quote]f "warmongering countries with blood on their hands," as you put it - and there is none bigger than the UK.

Listen cunt, for all the handwringing over the horrible British colonialism the truth is they made very comfortable and civilized societies.

History is a bloody awful mess. It was what it was.

I'm eternally grateful to be living in a first world, modern country.

R402 You can’t infer that each and every man woman and child in Lebanon , where the explosions occurred, were card carrying Hezbollah supporters.

Sorry. True they weren’t all killed. Just a limb or two blown off.

We cannot assume each person in a geographic terroritiry supports their government. Our country was wrong about the Vietnam war. But you cannot impute horrific governmental conduct to each American.

Your comment that my idealism is for another world . Maybe so. I have to hang on to ideals of MLK. I have to believe in shreds of hope. But that’s just me.

The exploding pagers were procured by Hezbollah for communications among their fighters. Anyone killed or injured by them was either near a Hezbollah fighter or took the pager away. This was about as targeted attack as could be.

R441, as dumb as your post sounds in ignoring the atrocities that occurred under British Rule, I agree in the fact that it's important to not be a hypocrite. People are screaming over what Israel is doing yet, as you put it they are "eternally grateful to be living in a first world modern country." These same people are saying that America is just as guilty as Iran, while enjoying all of the high-end privileges of living in a country far away from these crimes. Countries like Israel can't do what they need to do to live peacefully, all the while they are flippantly typing false narratives while living in a country that did what it needed to do, and they are JUST fine with that.

R442 Palestinians couldn't be more supportive of their government. When they had a chance at peace to elect whomever they wanted, they elected a Terrorist organization. Every single interview of anyone in the streets of Palestine shows someone wildly supportive of Hamas. EVEN in Afghanistan you had dissent against a just as evil Taliban. But in Palestine, there is no such thing. I think it's safe to assume most Palestinians support Hamas, even though Hamas is at the Four Season in Dubai living it up on their emergency aide dime while they are getting driven from the land to the sea.

R445, it's like that line in Heart of Darkness: "Exterminate all the brutes!"

[quote] Israel is not fighting for its existence.

Just for the ability to live without invading terrorist armies and a rain of missiles. No biggy.

How soon we forget Dr. Ashrawi R445

R404, That's the most concise and insightful book on world history ever written.

Congratulations.

R407, that's a Saturday night in Chicago.

BEEP BEEP

BEEP BEEP

LOL

Israel killed 50+ children yesterday in Lebanon.

^ Blame their parents for supporting terrorists. Cry me a river.

R453 no I’ll blame Israel for killing them, but thanks.

It's fucking war. Muslim assholes need to realize Israel isn't going anywhere. Fuck 'em if they can't deal with it.

Lebanon has been bombing Israel continuously since Oct. 7. Residents have had to leave their houses for months. Apparently the only solution for some is for Israel just to watch the bombs and hope the Iron Dome protects them. The Iron Dome that leftists want to cut off from US funding so that the bombs can just hit Israel and kill people.

To R452-"Que Sera Sera"-Whatever will be will be-I do not care!!

To R453-I totally Fucking agree with you!!

Myrtle Beach Bike week is next week-YUMMY

R456 Israel has been bombing Lebanon each month since October at a ratio of 5:1 tell the full truth.

R458 What's your point? Are you only supposed to respond with the exact number of missiles they lob at you? The point is to use more to try to make them stop.

So what are you pro-Hamas motherfuckers going to do? Go to Gaza and fight? You think they'd love your gay asses? Think again.

R459 my point is that by “forgetting” to mention that Israel is being far more aggressive, and also not mentioning that Lebanon has no Iron Dome, that you’re victimizing Israel in a situation where it is the aggressor. It’s dishonest.

50 murdered children and 100 murdered women in the last 24hours. Do you care?

To R461, Prime Minister Golda Meir was RIGHT, "Release the Boys" to destroy the enemies of Israel!!

I still do not care because the Arab world does not care about the scum Palestinian people.

R462 you are the type of person that enabled the holocaust to happen. You have accepted supremacy of one type of human over another based on their nationality or ethnic group, and you proudly do not care about them being slaughtered. You are disgusting.

^^^^ The Arabs are SCUM^^^ They will never change!! The Arabs are worse than the Germans circa 1933!!

If one doesn't learn from HISTORY one is doomed to repeat it!!

Arabs are just going to grow up to be terrorists. Maybe this will teach them to end this destructive conflict and join the modern world.

FFS Germany was bombed into oblivion and just ten years later they were an economic powerhouse.

To R465- They had to bring in "Turkish men" into West Germany (remember)??? to help rebuild& repopulate the German Economy. Now the "far-right fake German Nazis" want them to "go back to their own country. Germany is their home country!!

[quote]To [R461], Prime Minister Golda Meir was RIGHT, "Release the Boys" to destroy the enemies of Israel!!

[quote]I still do not care because the Arab world does not care about the scum Palestinian people.

R462 even more to the point is another Golda Meir quote, (the full quote is linked below)

[quote]Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us

If Palestinian people care so little for their women and children that they allow them to live in danger with and amongst active terrorist fighters than I dont see why the rest of us should care. I wish Israel was not killing women and children but it is an unavoidable outcome of the manner in which both Hamas and Hezbollah conduct war, embedding their military personnel and weaponry within the civilian population

R467 you are another example of a person that (with enough of your type) would set the conditions to allow the holocaust to happen. You’re also a total fucking idiot btw.

R468 do you even know what you are saying? Have you ever thought past your initial idea? The Jewish population, within the European cities that they were living in, were not terrorist cells constantly attacking the citizens around them trying to rid the world of Germans because Abraham told them to do so. The Germans were not defending themselves against a warring Jewish population hellbent on getting rid of them. The holocaust was ethnic cleansing, rounding up, of a certain portion of the population. That is NOT what is going on in Israel. If militant terrorist organizations weren't so hellbent on attacking Israel, decade after decade, they wouldn't be getting bombed into oblivion.

If you repeatedly, openly confessed, year after year that your intent was to get rid of me - and you actively pursued these intentions with constant attacks - if it's in my power, I am going to take your land and your toys until you change your mind and submit.

^ and if that means death to your women and children - then that is CLEARLY your choice. The mission is obviously more important than the welfare of their citizens. This has been proven over and over.

Fuck 'em bome bomb 'em

Arabs have alway been anathema to Western Civilzation.

Let hell rain down

[quote][R468] do you even know what you are saying? Have you ever thought past your initial idea? The Jewish population, within the European cities that they were living in, were not terrorist cells constantly attacking the citizens around them trying to rid the world of Germans because Abraham told them to do so. The Germans were not defending themselves against a warring Jewish population hellbent on getting rid of them. The holocaust was ethnic cleansing, rounding up, of a certain portion of the population. That is NOT what is going on in Israel. If militant terrorist organizations weren't so hellbent on attacking Israel, decade after decade, they wouldn't be getting bombed into oblivion.

[quote]f you repeatedly, openly confessed, year after year that your intent was to get rid of me - and you actively pursued these intentions with constant attacks - if it's in my power, I am going to take your land and your toys until you change your mind and submit.

blah blah blah fuckity blah blah blah

That was a fucking long time ago

I don't even understand what you are commenting on R472. You quoted me, but your childish response doesn't make sense.

Israel is at a very unique turning point right now. They have seemingly been given the global green light to go after and destroy the terrorist organizations on their border that have been plaguing them for years. There has been a lot of lip service "oh, you shouldn't" and a lot of protest from people who don't even belong in the conversation. But the pass they are getting from the countries that support them speak volumes. And even Iran, who has had several reasons to launch a serious counter-attack, has restrained themselves. It would be stupid for Israel to stop now. Maybe these terrorist groups will learn that the backing for their all-out religious war that they have been longing for is just not there - that the world has moved on.

[quote]R468 you are another example of a person that (with enough of your type) would set the conditions to allow the holocaust to happen.

Yet you haven't said a single thing that expresses empathy for the actual victims of the actual holocaust. And it sounds as if you don't want their descendants to win this war that Hamas has declared on them. It doesn't sound like the high road you might think you're taking.

(Didn't mean to write "actual" twice, but it helps emphasize the point anyway.)

A comment from the above link:

"The British Mandate of Palestine included Jordan. Arab Muslims represent 24% of the global population, and control 29% of the land on Earth.

Jews represent 2% of the global population, yet they control .002% of land, the size of New Jersey.

Maybe the anti colonialists should consider this point."

R478 great points. And in addition, the Jews are the indigenous people of that .002 of land, so they are returning to their rightful homeland, not colonizing it

R477, That is RICH! it was the intransigence of the Palestinian Arabs in Jordan as refugees and their attention to assassinate King Hussein, that prompted said King of JORDAN to expel the Palestinian Arabs, whereupon they landed in refugee camps.

The Arabs dubbed this event as "Black September." If you are not familiar with that term, I recommend you become so.

[quote] And even Iran, who has had several reasons to launch a serious counter-attack, has restrained themselves. It would be stupid for Israel to stop now. Maybe these terrorist groups will learn that the backing for their all-out religious war that they have been longing for is just not there - that the world has moved on.

Seriously? Iran and its proxies have been attacking Israel continuously and sending its drones to Russia for use against Ukraine.

You are completely brainwashed if you think Iran is ‘restrained’ in any way.

R481, I didn't say Iran wasn't doing anything. But if they were completely serious about defending the Palestinians, they would be declaring a war and and fighting at much more than 20% capacity. Even when they themselves launched a missile attack at Israel in retaliation for Israel's bombing of the Iranian Embassy in Damascus, they basically told Israel the time and date of the attack. They might has well have given them the coordinates of the guided missiles too. Israel even launched a missile attack INTO Iran to kill a Hamas leader. Israel has attacked Iran directly, two times. Iran doesn't want an all out war with Israel over Palestine. They are doing enough just to save face without committing much, other than supporting proxies. This is what I mean by restrained.

No, Iran's “restraint” means nothing. Shi'ite Iran is playing the long game. Their conventional military is pathetic, and they wont do anything that would trigger US or Israeli retaliation directly against it.

Iran's sole immediate concern is delaying until it can finish completion of a nuclear bomb. (It hopes for a Harris presidency, but that's neither here nor there to us.)

And Iran's long-term goal is destruction of Israel, and gaining dominance in the ME, displacing Saudi influence in the region.

Iran will do anything, including pretend to be our ally, to accomplish these goals.

^^^didnt mean to say “pretend to be our ally” above, because Ian is doing no such thing. Should have said, “Iran will do anything, including pretend to engage in meaningful diplomacy with us …”

Their restraint means a lot right now R483 if it means that Israel can successfully dismantle Hamas and Hezbollah in the meantime while they play their long game.

And economically, isn't the biggest ME fear Israel/US/France/UK building its own canal straight up through Palestine to undercut the massive profits of the Suez? That is the main reason for supporting a thorn in the side. Or is that just fake news?

Who the hell really knows? Maybe the longer game was to give Iran enough rope to hang itself knowing full well, flushed with cash, it would back its proxies against Israel, giving all the more reason to clear them out. Iran will drain its cashflow that way and full on sanctions will return before they can militaristically advance any further. But I'm just spitballin'.

R485, It's an old idea, once considered doing with US nuclear bombs, called the Ben Gurion Canal. It is not a current project.

I will add that it is difficult to find a source that does not view this story from the Palestinian POV, including the suggestion that Israel let October 7 happen in order to have a reason to seriously try to obliterate Hamas, which organization asked for a cut of the profits from any completed BGC.

Everything is a conspiracy about Gaza. Oil, a canal, limestone, gold.

Considering the rise of the population in Gaza since Israel pulled out it's a pretty ineffective genocide they've been committing over the past 2 decades.

^^The motherfuckers breed like rats.

[QUOTE]50 murdered children and 100 murdered women in the last 24hours. Do you care?

Where were you when Russia was raining down bombs on civilians in Syria, specifically targeting hospitals that put a big Red Cross on their roof hoping to avoid Bashir's Russian invitees for a killing field.?

Or Grozny in Chechnya where Putin murdered thousands upon thousands of Muslim civilians from the air in relentless bombings against civilian targets? I hope you exhibited the same type of humanity and "caring" while an elder care nursing home just got targeted in Ukraine the day before yesterday.

WHY DO YOU NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE MILLIONS PUTIN HAS MURDERED?

Seriously. Why not?

Sorry, that link at r490 doesn't seem to work.

This one has better images for the anti-semites and mass extinction enthusiasts on Datalounge.

1.9million refugees now in Gaza, out of a population of 2.1million.

Syrians and Chechnyans probably can't leave where their being bombed into extinction by their dictators.

R490 Russian and Iranian interests are closely intertwined - thats probably why the anti-semites and mass extinction enthusiasts on Datalounge dont care

This poorly-formatted but credible source takes us only to 2010.

It struck me that, while both sides use munitions and explosives, only pro-Palestinian Arabs terrorists are suicide-bombers.

And I believe only those who are pro-Palestinian terror organizations deliberately target civilians of nations other than Israel (Pan Am 103; US Embassy; Rome Airport; Bologna train station; "Achille Lauro"; etc.).

R495, suicide bombers have been around for a long time, possibly going back to the assassination of Czar Alexander II. The Iranians used them in the Iraq-Iran war. The alliance between Iran and Hamas probably brought them into the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

R474, the world has not moved on, in fact, the opposite is true. We know have groups in western countries threatening sharia, there a protesters in western cities calling for the genocide of Jews and the globalization of an intifada and jihad, they are waving flags of isis and hezbollah in huge protests across the west.

The western politicians, media, academics are encouraging, enabling and setting fire to this and, as usual, citizens are and will pay the price. Meanwhile, the so called peaceful muslim majority say and do shit. In their silence they tell us they are complicit. They want global islamization. Islam will be the spark of WW3.

Yohoo! R495, us 9/11 terrorists just want to destroy the west, and the western evil values, and islamize the world.

Anyone who has the ability to fly could drop bombs and kill 1000s. Even some on DL could, It takes someone very committed to wear an explosive vest that will kill the bomber and 20 others.

They are both forms of killing , often killing civilians, that makes no difference to the dead.

[quote]It takes someone very committed to wear an explosive vest that will kill the bomber and 20 others.

Questionable framing r499. Usually suicide vest bombers have been carefully selected and “trained” by others, more skillful, who then use the trainees as just another weapon.

R499, it is not commitment, it is brainwashing from the islamic cult and profound stupidity from centuries of incestuous breeding.

I think you're mistaken, r499. Russia and rogue Middle Eastern governments exacted death on civilians from countries all over during the 70s thru the 90s. Europe had a scourge of bombings on their transportation systems Civilians were never avoided by Hezbollah, Hamas, or Iran. Civilians were valued deaths because our brand of "humanity" did not matter to them and they knew it would be touchy.

Also, remember that the USSR funded the Red Brigade in Italy, ETA in Spain, and the IRA in Ireland and the UK -- all groups who intended to commit mayhem among civilians.

And don't forget how Iran, Syria, and Russia are buddying up to rain terror from the skies upon civilian apartment high rises all over Syria and Checnya where hundreds of thousands of Muslims have perished under Russian bombs. Nobody seems to give a shit about them. Do you?

It did not and does not matter to their own as they embed themselves and terrorize civilian populations who'd just not rather have them there. but they can't deny fellow Muslims, even those who wouldn't give flying fuck whether Lebanon's kids live to see another day.

Lebanon is sadly stuck, but apparently content that major players have been eradicated. Gazans have been terrorized by the richy riches who take aid and live splendidly in wealth in Qatar or UAE high rise penthouses, untouched while "their people" struggled for clean drinking water in Gaza. Complete and total oppressive usurpers living a high life, albeit a militarized one at the expense of lesser.

And Israel and Ukraine are supposed to welcome them with open minds, hearts, and the females lying prone, legs apart taking it up the ass?

No.

R502, please post links to where you get your information. I'm not questioning the veracity, it is information the western propaganda machines aren't pumping out.

"Propaganda only works if people don't realize it's propaganda."

(People still think that the MSM media, the NYTs, WaPo, MSNBC, The View and Rachel Madcow have been telling them the truth. LOL.).

R503 - You are a fucking kidding me, right? If you're an ignorant idiot, I cannot dig you out of your hole. If you don't know common knowledge and history, you expect me to do the leg work to "prove" it to you? Are you idiot enough to even ask? Shit.

I was keeping up with the news beginning in the early '70s when I became verbal enough to read and understand. And you expect me to teach you four decades worth of information? Stupid, fucking twat. Get out.

I left enough clues and verbiage for you to do it on your own, precious Snowflake. LOL. 😆

I wish you well, R504

“It is not commitment, it is brainwashing” R501

R500 “just another weapon”

Exactly a suicide bomber is just another weapon. Like the Japanese that when losing in WW2 relied heavily on acts of suicide from its troops and airmen to try and win.

And while you see their willingness to die as brainwashing I am thinking of the young 18 year olds that left small boats to hit Iwo or Omaha beaches knowing that they were almost certainly going to be killed.

Being in combat and knowing what you are going to do has a high chance of killing you is not all that different than being a suicide bomber.

They are though a lot different than being a remf who does nothing but talk.

Why, r505? You're the person wallowing like a stuck pig that doesn't know how to get out of its own mud.

Like I said, you have enough clues to investigate, but it's up to you to climb out of your willful ignorance

[quote] Gazans have been terrorized by the richy riches who take aid and live splendidly in wealth in Qatar or UAE high rise penthouses, untouched while "their people" struggled for clean drinking water in Gaza.

Palestinians are being terrorized by Israelis. And have been for decades.

Commitment and brainwashing aren't antonyms, they aren't mutually exclusive. You can be brainwashed to the point you are 100% committed to a stupid ideology - like a suicide bomber. When you in fact should just be committed to a facility for deprogramming.

R595 is a Hezbollah cock sucker and terrorist.

If you block the bitch, it cleans up the thread and some others as well.

[QUOTE]Palestinians are being terrorized by Israelis. And have been for decades.

Please tell us about Palestinian terror upon Jordan. Abdullah I was assassinated by a Palestinian who wanted to take over the country. His son Hussein (father of current King Abdullah II) only survived because a military badge deflected the bullet.

Abdullah II absolutely freaked the fuck out when Trump suggested giving him the West Bank and its Palestinian population. Nor does Egypt want them anywhere near its population and built an actual 10 mile steel wall reinforcing itself against Gaza and its terrorists.

Stable Arab states cannot deal with the Palestine issue, fearing their own countries might be overrun by an organized terrorist faction driven by Iran.

Why don't you get that Hamas/Hezbollah antipathy is coming from inside their own house? Seriously, READ SOME FUCKING HISTORY.

Exactly r497. The majority of Western citizens don't want this shit in their countries, but the government and other elites have turned this into a shitshow.

[quote] Islam will be the spark of WW3.

Richard Nixon, of all people, said that the great conflict of the 21st Century will be the West vs. Islam.

R511 look over there!

Tricky Dick may have been a paranoid criminal, but he wasn't stupid. Especially when it came to foreign relations.

Yes Nixon was a scumbag, but he was excellent at foreign relations. You have to give him that.

CNN: Hezbollah says it has launched long-range missiles toward Jerusalem.

^Pringles can full of firecrackers.

In a way, the victims of the attack on Israel by the Palestinians on 10/7 have not died in vain. Their deaths have given Israel the clear and irrefutable moral and legal right to destroy everything in Gaza and Lebanon connected to or supporting terrorism.

R519, what happened that day was horrific. It haunts me. To kill and rape all those young people at the music festival, to record it with pride, to execute young people who have done nothing to you really has been disturbing. There is much evil in this world.

[quote]Palestinians are being terrorized by Israelis. And have been for decades.

Palestinians have indeed been hurt by the Israelis, but more so by Hamas and their own corrupt leaders. The call has been comingn from within the house for some time.

Turning against their masters?

[QUOTE]Some Hezbollah loyalists directed their anger at Iran which has not come to their aid after weeks of punishing airstrikes. “Iran sold us out,” I heard one man say, a phrase that was widely repeated on social media among Hezbollah sympathizers.

R521 no the primary source of the Palestinians suffering is Israel. They’ve displaced 1.9m people over the last few months, fully destroyed 75% of all structures in Gaza, and have been keeping them under subhuman conditions for decades. Stealing their land and homes, terrorizing them constantly.

It strange because if my neighbors took hostages and then the police were attacking my building trying to get the hostages out, I’d blame my neighbors.

R523

Brown people = good

White people = bad

While frigging her impotent dicklet fantasizing about how all those brown studs will fuck her fat carcass I’d only they hear her advocating for them on a back water swamp website

R524 would you say, by your own logic, that Israel are to blame for the deaths on Oct 7th because of their land grabbing and decades long political persecution of Palestinians?

White people are funny. They will be the first to tell you that these brown people are WHITE! if you dare say Cleopatra was black. But then say white people are attacking brown people if it's Israel against Palestinians. They'll be the first to tell you South Americans are considered white, but scream about brown people crossing the border and taking our jobs. Would you guys get it straight?

R525: I am on neither side of this conflict, but Israelis are as "brown" as any other people in the Middle East. The majority (55%) of Israelis are of Mizrahi (Middle Eastern, North African, and Asian) descent.

The phrase "brown people" (referring to people as varied as Bangladeshis, Moroccans, and Venezuelans) should really be retired.

No, you don’t shit where you eat R526. Even if we all hated the police and thought that somehow kidnapping random people was justified because we had such a warped sense of right and wrong, bringing the hostages into our home is a dick move.

Also, Gaza has been all Palestinian for years. It’s over in the West Bank where the land thefts are happening so your premise is garbage.

Is R526 a left wing nazi or a right wing nazi?

R529 so there’s no commonality between the West Bank and Gazan people? Who are all Palestinians? lol.

Also Israel has thousands of Palestinians in their prisons that they have arrested and held without charge, functionally hostages. And they had these pre Oct 7th. I guess they shouldn’t “shit where they eat” right?

If you want to blame Palestinians for what has happened in Gaza, then blame Israelis for what happened in Israel. Have some intellectual honesty.

There’s a lot of commonality between all people everywhere.

And I am not inconsistent. I’m fine with Hamas bombing the Israeli prisons their “hostages” are held in.

R532 you are completely inconsistent. Israel have bombed 75% of structures in Gaza. Was every single one of these structures housing hostages?

Those structures were housing tunnels and military assets. There were 350 miles underneath. The entrance to the tunnel where they killed 6 hostages a few weeks ago was a child’s bedroom.

Who knows? Israel is upfront with where the prisons are. Hamas holds hostages all over, under, within and throughout civilian areas. Like I said it’s a dick move. If I were a Gazan I might be making plans to remove the foreign backed Hamas oppressors.

R535/Elderlez. Do "ordinary" Gazans, not necessarily aligned with Hamas, have any firepower to do this, turning arms against something so powerful and paralyzing? It seems only internal Hamas factions will have any leverage, and they're, seemingly, fucked.

[quote] Who knows?

Well, Israel should for one R535, if they’re bombing hospitals and universities and schools (an international war crime remember). There’s been very little offered in terms of evidence for all these “there was a tunnel under that 800year old building” to be honest.

[quote] Israel is upfront with where the prisons are.

You’ve got to be kidding me. So the known location of a prison excuses the fact that they’re holding thousands of people illegally without charge or a set court date? Israel doesn’t tell families where these prisoners are located and denies access to families and lawyers. How is this any different to hostages held in Gaza? And there are thousands of them. You claim that you’re being consistent, if you are upset by the hostages held in Gaza then you must criticize that Israel is holding many times more people in almost identical circumstances.

Israel went to a music concert and randomly abducted people? Oh my sides, so silly you are R537. Do you even read what you write?

It’s a problem for sure R356, but everyone sleeps. You only need a few motivated ladies and some sharp knives to take out the leadership. It is so hard to imagine what a person would do in such an impossible situation, but I think many Gazans have had it with the Hamas.

R538 are you dense? Why would the method of abduction matter when people are abducted? Why does it matter if they’re taken from a music festival or from their homes in the middle of the night? Israel has taken thousands of Palestinians (many children) from Gaza and the West bank, taken them without charge, across territorial lines, away from their homes and families, and imprisoned them in jails with no set court date, or access to lawyers or visitors. These people are hostages, and your pretending it doesn’t matter because there wasn’t a music festival involved is equal parts stupid and reprehensible.

The Nova music festival was a drugged-out psychedelic rave (though there were live music acts there as well). Not that it matters; obviously, no one deserved to be slaughtered and what happened there was horrific, but if you paid attention you'd notice the different language used by various media outlets. Since "rave" sounds druggy and hedonistic, pro-Israeli outlets tended to favor "music festival," while others opted for "rave." We process these words and meanings differently; they have different connotations--wholesome and innocent, versus less so. This may seem trivial and nonsensical to you, but it all makes a difference in how people perceive these things.

^ I cannot wait for the responses.

FWIW, I was in Israel on October 7. First visit since 1998 (Netanyahu was prime minister back then as well), and all hell breaks loose. My friend and I flew in from Amsterdam on Transavia Airlines for a 12-day trip and just barely managed to get a flight out to Dalaman, Turkey, with Pegasus Air on October 9 (the day we were due to leave). The Dutch airline left us high and dry, as it cancelled all flights to and from Tel Aviv on Oct. 7.

I made one comment to an Israeli guy while I was there about how I found it odd that young Western Europeans fly into Tel Aviv to party for a weekend while having no awareness of, or no interest in, the local political situation, and he appeared to take it personally. All I meant to say was: Berlin, Madrid, Tel Aviv, Barcelona: it's all the same to them. After the October 7 Nova Festival massacre, I reminded him that the festival was held only 5 kilometers from the Israel-Gaza border, and he practically accused me of saying the punters "had it coming." People will reflexively get defensive and just hear what they want to hear. I was a tourist there as well, but I was born in the country and therefore a lifelong Israeli citizen, even though my family and I left for the Netherlands when I was three years old.

[quote]I made one comment to an Israeli guy while I was there about how I found it odd that young Western Europeans fly into Tel Aviv to party for a weekend while having no awareness of, or no interest in, the local political situation, and he appeared to take it personally.

Questioning the judgement of people who were just brutally raped, kidnapped or murdered is too hard for the fellow countrymen of many of the victims to hear while processing/dealing with what has just happened. Your comment probably came too soon for the Israeli man to hear while he was in shock and mourning the victims of the horrific attack.

Sorry, R543, I actually made that comment several days *before* October 7. Most of the attendees of the Nova Festival were actually Israeli, not foreign (though there were a few, of course). I was talking about the year-round trend of affluent young *Europeans* flying to *Tel Aviv* to party there for a few days and the apparent complete lack of social or political awareness of some of them (yes, what else is new, I know).

Keep exposing yourself, r544.

R544, I thought both of your comments were made after October 7th. Still, my reply was mainly addressing this last part of your post:

[quote]After the October 7 Nova Festival massacre, I reminded him that the festival was held only 5 kilometers from the Israel-Gaza border, and he practically accused me of saying the punters "had it coming." People will reflexively get defensive and just hear what they want to hear.

R544, Personal decisions — good, bad, indifferent — have nothing to do with whether people live or die in a war. It’s always about bigger factors. Part of the whole Western mindset is being oblivious to other people’s problems. Sure it’s sad, but it’s their own fault.

Here we go: The WH says Iran is preparing an "imminent" ballistic missile attack against Israel.

Done, r548.

This will not stand. Israel knows exactly where and what to hit. Did the Iranians learn nothing from when Israel destroyed their nuclear facilities?

Apologies! That involved Iraq (r549)! Nonetheless, Iran might just have blundered immensely.

R559 Israel did, however, destroy a few Iranian nuclear scientists, the last one the head of Iran's nuclear program, via remote-controlled machine gun mounted on a Nissan truck or SUV. So there's that.

[quote]Israel did, however, destroy a few Iranian nuclear scientists, the last one the head of Iran's nuclear program, via remote-controlled machine gun mounted on a Nissan truck or SUV. So there's that.

Sweet.

Beep beep

Beep beep

Boom