‘I constantly was saying no’: ex-Abercrombie & Fitch boss accused of abuse at global sex events

Completely unsurprising. Is he a Trump voter now?

He's a lesser Peter Thiel. What do you think, R1?

I was in rehab with one of his models in 2013. He had aged out of his parents’ insurance.

[quote]Young men were injected with liquid Viagra

I guess he was looking for tops?

He has upper case gums and lower case teefs.

“Are we exclusionary? Absolutely!”

Jealous bitches?

I don't understand why he's barely let the plastic surgeons touch him. He could stand to have some more work done!

Anytime I hear this brand name, I immediately default to thinking about the MadTV skits.

Also, walking by their stores in the mall always gave me a headache because of that damn cologne. Can't stand the smell of it.

R3, any juicy stories?

Jeffries sounds sleazy as fuck

Jeffries got plastic surgery to try to look like Kiefer Southerland. Unfortunately his face looks like Laura Loomer’s instead. A and F always creeped me out with the models looking distressed and barely legal. A lot of people can’t handle power without becoming corrupt

And you thought it was just the actual store experience that involved “dancing in the dark”.

R10, the stories had come out by then.

Rehab Model said, yes, Jeffries was handsy. Worse, senior staff supervised models like mean girls. He also said it was a easy way to travel, but it didn’t pay enough and he aged out at 19. Opiates hit Burr Ridge white guys pretty hard.

My God imagine that face coming at you!

R15 HAHA he’s the one telling you you’re ugly get out. Guy must have a huge glass house.

It’s as if Eartha Kirt’s bleached butthole was really Charlotte Rampling’s face. Horrible. He should have died awhile ago.

“In a 2006 interview with Salon, Jeffries stated that his clothing line was exclusively for "cool" people. Moreover, he has said he did not want overweight or unattractive people to wear his clothes.”

He shouldn’t be wearing his clothes then.

R3, tell us more.

He just sounds like a horny old rich man. Tale as old as time. 24,000 pounds for seven nights is pretty damn good. Wipe away your tears.

no offence, but modelling IS a whore's business.

R20, exactly. Is this supposed to be some great scandal?

It’s not illegal to be sleazy and have unappealing personality traits. This story seems to be nothing more than a wealthy guy who can afford to have exacting tastes go to elaborate lengths to get what he desires.

He’s a revolting creep, but those pretty young things need to get a clue and learn to be able to differentiate between what is coercion and what is a transaction.

more of our young ones could learn a few life lessons from Barbara Payton

R23, there is more to it than that. Why do you think the FBI is investigating him?

I love the creepy freaks here who are excusing this. "I would have done the same things had I been rich and powerful! It's all the harassment victims' fault for complaining!"

Why go to a “sex event” with him in the first place?

So you're saying they were just asking for it, r27.

That is not what I meant r28. But at parties like that, boundaries are always crossed.

I can't muster the energy to feel sorry for those guys. They know the deal. Don't be a shirtless model if you don't want people to be attracted to you. Don't put a dick in your mouth if you don't want to suck it and if you take it in the ass from some old dude once, they'll expect it again and again. Grow up boys.

Being a shirtless model doesn't mean you deserve to be sexually assaulted

So, r30, unlike r29 you're clear they WERE asking for it.

Not asking for it. But shouldn't be surprised. The rumors were going around for years. Models talk. It was it is. They'll win in court because we are a litigation obsessed country. Someone should have just beat that creeps ass instead.

Stop! Stop! Get away from me with that huge check and Viagra injection and take your mouth off my dick or I'll send in one of the other hundred guys who wants this job.

Handsy? Unwanted sexual attention? Trying to be coerced into sex?

Every woman under 30 would like to have a word.

I'm guessing he just watched and didn't participate.

Attractive men seeking to make money off of their looks complaining that people wanted to use them for sex?

I’m shocked..

[quote] “I tried to say no repeatedly. And then I just got kind of convinced to do something. But I constantly was saying no, and I wanted to go.”

Oh, darlin’—you poor thing!

[quote] Jeffries stated that his clothing line was exclusively for "cool" people. Moreover, he has said he did not want overweight or unattractive people to wear his clothes.”

This gives him the Datalounge Lifetime Achievement Award.

[quote] During another, he says he was verbally abused by Mr Jeffries after saying "no" to a risky sexual act while on board the Queen Mary 2, an ocean liner which sails from England to New York. He says Mr Jeffries was drunk and tried to insert a "bleeding finger" into him.

Queen Mary!!

"Attractive men seeking to make money off of their looks complaining that people wanted to use them for sex?"

Or they could get jobs elsewhere, but then they'd have to work 4 times as hard for 1/4 of the pay they made for standing and modeling.

R40 - so he went on a 10 day cruise with Jeffries?

Sex and attractiveness is a currency - and that's basically all young people have to offer. The older people surrounding you and wanting to be with you is not because of your intellect.

I think women somewhat have a better grasp on this than young men. Unwanted sexual abuse/assault should never happen. However, to think that someone's going to fly you around the world or pay for an expensive cruise just because you're young and pretty and they just want to be around you - that's not reality.

Women know this and also know the pitfalls of using their sexuality. Young men are oblivious - in more ways than one. Their brains aren't as matured as women's at the same age and they usually have never been on the receiving end of an unequal power dynamic and being forced into sexual situations. All women know this game - learned the hard way unfortunately - at a much younger age.

Gimme a break. These guys were not Epstein's schoolgirls. They were hired for their looks, not skills, in a sexually charged atmosphere. They were well paid and none were held hostage but it was a major pervy operation. No doubt.

-Men who attended these events told the BBC Mike Jeffries and Matthew Smith would engage in sexual activity with about four men or "direct" them to have sex with each other. Afterwards, the men said staff at the event handed them envelopes filled with thousands of dollars in cash.-

[quote] so he went on a 10 day cruise with Jeffries?

7 days.

And he was paid $24,000 in cash.

They let themselves be injected with Viagra? No fucking sympathy, THEY WERE NOt FUCKING VICTIMS, they were complicit, and now looking for a payout, trashy trade rent boys who have aged out.

[quote] I think women somewhat have a better grasp on this than young men. Unwanted sexual abuse/assault should never happen. However, to think that someone's going to fly you around the world or pay for an expensive cruise just because you're young and pretty and they just want to be around you - that's not reality.

[quote]Women know this and also know the pitfalls of using their sexuality. Young men are oblivious - in more ways than one. Their brains aren't as matured as women's at the same age and they usually have never been on the receiving end of an unequal power dynamic and being forced into sexual situations. All women know this game - learned the hard way unfortunately - at a much younger age.

You're basing these sweeping unsupported claims on... what? Your vast world experience? Pardon me if I don't take that especially seriously.

We've seen in the #metoo years that this shit actually happens to women too, and they have successfully sued their harassers because of this. Unless you get clear consent, just paying for someone to accompany you on your expensive trip (especially if you say that its part of the job) does not mean you get to molest them.

[quote] Unless you get clear consent, just paying for someone to accompany you on your expensive trip (especially if you say that its part of the job) does not mean you get to molest them.

Any young attractive person who accepts a free trip and thousands of dollars in cash from an older stranger should know exactly what the deal is.

[quote]So you're saying they were just asking for it, [R27].

I always use this analogy. No one deserves to be punched in the face. But if I am a Yankees fan and go to a Red Socks game in Boston and cheer every time the Yankees score, I wouldn't be surprised if I got socked in the face.

It's called street smarts. If you don't want some sleazy old man touching your dick, don't go on a seven day cruise where there is no escape. If you want a professional relationship, don't answer a recruiter's WhatsApp messages saying someone wants to meet you at their place. That is not how models are hired. If you accept their offers, you are knowingly walking into a trap that you hope you get what you want in exchange for whatever it is that you have to do.

The cruise is one extreme and he really has no argument. What is trickier is the guys who accept invitations to parties not knowing they were sex parties. Here, I think the clear choice is simply to leave, but if you’ve been flown a long distance to an unfamiliar, perhaps foreign city, I can understand some reluctance to just walk out.

Look, he has every right to sue. It's just whenever these cases come up, the person REALLY has to play up the victimhood to make their case stick. And it always rings a little false to the people on the sidelines watching it all go down. But that's what you have to do in a court of law. The defense will attack your character anyway they can, so you can't give them a lead on it from the start.

The messier issue is “sex trafficking.” It’s one thing to take advantage of the local whores, but once you hire a staff to lure them away from home, you are in trouble and probably rightly so.

These two could very well end up looking at criminal charges, which their attorneys already told them. Getting indicted, etc. is a different story, but it would cause them a lot of difficulties. Being rich is not the total magic wand people on this board think it is.

[quote] No. Trump does not accept admission of error or apology. He has no choice but to claim some kind of higher purpose, even if a 5 year old could smell the bullshit.

You don’t say.

^ oops

[quote] Being rich is not the total magic wand people on this board think it is.

I don't know what R46's problem is - you don't think almost all women haven't been put into a sexual situation or other with a differing power dynamic - particularly if we're talking just about physical strength difference of men versus women?

Young women get unwanted sexual advances/other all the time. Young men? Not really - and if it's coming from women, then because of the physical strength difference, it's not as threatening.

I don't have any clue what you're taking offense at.

R54 - And look what kind of state those people are in.

If you're directed to a mansion in the Hamptons to sign an NDA, have sex with other models and afterwards handed an envelope with thousands of dollars in cash, it's clear what the job is regardless of the title.

One time I whored accidently when my "trick" left me an expensive bracelet after I reminded him not to forget it. I felt so dirty, he's still in my spank bank.

NDA's don't cover illegal activity. Idiots think they do, that's why they are given one.

Shop bottom problems.

NDA’s may not cover illegal activity, but few people want to spend the money on lawyers to find out.

[quote] During another, he says he was verbally abused by Mr Jeffries after saying "no" to a risky sexual act while on board the Queen Mary 2, an ocean liner which sails from England to New York. He says Mr Jeffries was drunk and tried to insert a "bleeding finger" into him.

Sounds like someone before him had found a better way to refuse Jeffries’ advances. He should consider himself lucky he didn’t go in cock-first!

R61 - I think everyone is presuming he tried to put his finger in his ass - when he could have just cut his finger and drunkenly said - oh, kiss it and make it better. That's 'putting something in him' - which is what an attorney would say in a lawsuit to make it more scandalous and outrageous than it is.

People just don't go around with bloody fingers trying to stick it down someone's belt, pants, underwear and into his ass.

This guy is a creep - but c'mon.

All these years later I can still smell the heavy cologne stench coming out of the A&F stores. They really laid it on thick. If you went into an A&F store the stench was so strong it would stay in your nostrils for awhile.

I don't give a fuck about what folks say about A&F. It was the one and only brand to proudly exploit/display male beauty in a way only seen in middle American malls via female brands like Victoria Secrete. To see a ripped, shirtless man you'd have to head to the department store's underwear department. A&F had kids, teenagers, and adults proudly walking around with sex on a stick male models. My closeted ass loved it. People can call it wrong, but those same people have sons and daughters shaking their asses for pedo strangers on TikTok today, so what's worse?

I even ended up working there in high school Uh, the manager was this bad ass chick with a coffee addiction, she was engaged for years to a manager of another store, I think he was gay. The supervisors were mostly male and all former college jocks (baseball and lacrosse) or military, all of them didn't know what to do with their degrees from their no-name schools, so went to A&F/Hollister. Work at a store and talk of working their way up to corporate (yeah right). They were all fuckable like Corbin Fisher models (2000s era) and none of them lasted, besides one or two in the four years I worked at the store (high school and summers in college). But a new hunk was around the corner, ready to relive the glory days of D3 baseball or his love of Lill Wayne's new album.

Damn I miss old A&fF.

^^^

Tell us more! Any especially lurid stories of bukkake in the back room or behind displays? You on your knees servicing all these alpha-male bros?

They were all painfully straight and I found out towards the end of my time there, laughing and gossiping about me behind my backs. My attempts to remain in the closet weren't working on anyone. The supervisors would just do some minor flirting with the girls, but they'd spend their time with women their own age. We had one openly gay guy. He reminded me of SC's Curtis. He was cute, fit, out and proud college student. He didn't have time to waste on teenagers like me. But I lived to get shifts with him. My goodness, he could wear he hell out of a t-shirt, dark bootcut jeans, and flip flops.

So did I hookup with anyone? No. But, I did enjoy Black Friday, because corporate would send legit models to stand outside the store. Got to chat them up as they remained shirtless all day. Man I miss the 2000s sometimes.

This place LOVED the A&F models back in the day and only made light fun of Jeffries, whom I called Pinnochio because he wanted to be a REAL BOY so badly.

The closet really does twist people, doesn't it?

Just to go off on a tangent - R64, is right. It was hot to walk past the stores and catch a glimpse of the hot male beauty on display. Does anyone remember the reality show Make Me a Super Model hosted by Tyson? It was a in real time show where the models lived in an Upper East Side apartment and were voted off one by one, until one was crowned a super model. Anyway one of the contestants was a guy named Perry Ullman. He was so sexy to me, great face, nice guy. I remember walking past the Abercrombie on 5th ave and seeing him standing in the doorway shirtless with people taking pics with him. I must have walked past the door six times just to see him standing inside. I went to look him up now to see what he has been up to and found out he died January 2021. How sad. Try as I might, I can't find what he died from. At that time, it could have been Covid.

This is old news. There have even been documentaries and many interviews. Why is this popping up again?

R64, did they make you dance degrading dances?

r64, don't forget their catalogues which contained hot, naked men in homoerotic poses in a time where gay sex itself was still illegal in many states.

You were supposed to have to be 18 to get them, but I was a few years younger than that and shot so many teenage loads over those pages lol...

r26, you realize that some of us may have done things for "gifts" when younger, yes, and thus have a very different perspective than you Gen Z prudes? As a millennial, I find the constant victimhood of those younger than me to be both absurd and boring.

Yes, the guy is creepy and ugly, but I don't believe they were that naive. They may regret giving in, but they knew what they were doing. You have to be an idiot not to in these situations.

I sometimes find myself thinking these guys should puy on their big boy boots and move on. And I think maybe thats because Im gay and am slightly intrigued and a little excited by all of these things, like being paid thousands to be lusted after. BUT, heres the thing, try equate all of this with something similar that youd be disgusted by, like bare knuckle fights or dog fights etc..things I would absolutely hate to find myself attending and wishing I could escape. but being forced to stay. Also, imagine it wasnt sexual abuse but physical...would we think a few slaps or punches were ok as they got paid?

[quote] did they make you dance degrading dances?

Yes, the manager would spray cologne at his feet and say, “Dance, homo, DANCE!”

[quote] don't forget their catalogues which contained hot, naked men in homoerotic poses in a time where gay sex itself was still illegal in many states.

Forget? I have a complete collection in the attic. Someday, they’ll be worth a lot of money, but I’ll be dead..

I doubt anyone was “forced to stay.” They chose to stay.

But wow, they got to sail on the QM2. Something to tell their children about. 🙄🙄🙄

Liquid Viagra = Trimix = PNP

I think that many of the accusers are people who were either far too naïve to understand the dynamics of the modelling world, which is effectively an oversized prostitution racket, or are trying to get revenge because they swallowed the repugnance of putting out for that mummified lizard Mike Jeffries, and didn't get what they were expecting in return for their efforts. It would be worth noticing that some A&F models went on to become bona fide celebrities, but I am sure that many others who expected to become stars went nowhere and are not particularly happy about it.

Maybe I am a bit cynical, but the higher you are in the social hierarchy, the more careful you must be about how you behave, since every interaction poses a potential risk to your future reputation. After Me Too, every person they might have wronged in the past has an opportunity to get back at them, so they ought to be careful not to abuse their power... Well, at least those who are not powerful enough to act with absolute impunity, which is the majority of cases - the Thiel, Gates et al all-powerful predator crowd is truly very small.

I don’t know. I give potential victims the benefit of the doubt always, but based on their own interviews on the BBC podcast, most of these guys knew they were getting paid for sex and many had done it more than once. When the interview process includes oral sex with a noseless guy, you get a pretty good idea what you’re in for.

[quote] It would be worth noticing that some A&F models went on to become bona fide celebrities,

Really? Which ones?

R81: Ashton Kutcher, Olivia Wilde, Trevor Donovan, Jamie Dornan, Scott Eastwood, Taylor Swift, Penn Badgley, Channing Tatum, Jennifer Lawrence, Alexander Ludwig, Jesse McCartney, Karlie Kloss, Kellan Lutz, Taylor Kitsch and Chris Carmack are the most famous. And yes, I do realize that few of these are A-Listers, but they're still famous and work steadily as actors.

r82, I was only asking for information, not because I didn't believe you.

R72 attacks the victims while propping up and defending the perpetrator. If anything, Jeffries is the one playing the victim. Just like Kevin Spacey

R79 thinks rich sexual predators are the REAL victims 🙄

[quote][R26], you realize that some of us may have done things for "gifts" when younger, yes,

You are a whore, darlin'!

The A&F catalogs were in the format of a magazine which featured celebrity profiles and interviews. Some of the people on r82s list appeared in these profiles. I wouldn’t call them models.

“Predator” is a loaded word for people who pay whores.

Dude, read all the articles about him. He's a predator and a sex trafficker.

Sex trafficker, perhaps. But he was not moving around innocent, naive children. These guys knew or should have known what the deal was. To the extent any were promised modeling opportunities in exchange for sex, that was potentially illegal and certainly sleazy, but the word “predator” should be saved for innocent victims.

So, a decrepit, creepy multimillionaire has been accused of preying on young models and trafficking sex work for them.

I know: let's blame the models! They knew what they were doing!

He’s not “preying” on them. They are seeking to make money off their looks and he is obliging. They are free to refuse.

Follow-up to R82:

R90, I didn't know that only "innocent" people or "naive children" could be victims of trafficking and assault

^ These guys are victims R94 like I am a victim of explosive diarrhea after eating too much Taco Bell.

OP- He looks like he uses the same plastic surgeon as that other FOSSIL who preys on young good looking guys- Calvin Klein.

^ You think Mike Jeffries is a victim 🤔

Why is r97 and all of his other posts being so obtuse? Saying the models aren't victims is in no way saying Mike Jeffries is a victim. It could very well be that there are no victims.

Why exactly should they have known? It's quite clear that these creeps targeted people who were not particularly clued up and so easy to exploit. And it's not like they were being selected by some random creep on the street - they were being offered roles within a well known corporation.

But once again, it seems to be the whole DL thing of expecting young people to have the exact same level of knowledge that posters here have after their decades and decades and decades of 'living'.

I always thought modeling was a cover for escorting, how many male models have rentmen profiles?

[quote]I always thought modeling was a cover for escorting

Does Garrett Neff do escort work? (He has a live-in girlfriend, but lots of gay male friends.)

Mike Jeffries looks like he spent time in the belly of Chernobyl. He's like a Dick Tracy villain, also.

R100, there are legit models but some of them definitely escort. Or they "befriend" David Geffen and Peter Thiel

Cue: “He had sex with me and gave me thousands of dollars and make me feel like a whore!”

Response: “ “

[all together now]

R78 liquid viagra is Alprostadil to make erections.

Some of these male models eventually had to move back to the shit holes and suburbia where they came from, bitter that they didn't make it big, and not bright enough to get very far in life. Now their looks have faded and they're pissed they once had the taste of the good life and now it will be forever out of reach.

So - wham - let's sue them for money!!! And a sketchy attorney would jump at this for the 40% payout fee he'll get.

All he needs to do is file a lawsuit and drag their names through the mud with a lot of innuendo and little evidence - people will write checks quickly to end all of that. Both the models and attorney win!

I'd like to know how exactly they intend to prove all of this.

With their testimony, I imagine.

r106 is just ignoring the fact that the FBI are investigating

“Reportedly”

R108 - so? They're looking into allegations. They look into a lot of things.

I'm not saying there wasn't any shenanigans going on and that Jeffries is innocent - I fully believe he went after these guys. But these really sounds like a shake-down for money than anything illegal.

r110 So you don't think anything illegal took place and yet you won't say Jeffries is innocent?

Of course something “illegal’ too place. Prostitution is illegal, darlin’

R111 - making gross sexual advances by an almost 70 year old man to a 20 year old male model is not illegal, as disgusting as it sounds.

Prostitution is not illegal in the UK. Would he be liable in the US if he hired escorts for sex abroad?

Let me add - I think they're trying to get this lawsuit in before he dies and his estate is settled. He's already 80. I don't think you can sue dead people. That's why it feels even more like a cash-grab.

r68 unlocked a memory. I also remember Ben and gay Ronnie (who's now a magat) and their "bromance" which was quite new at the time.

You can sue a dead person’s estate.

r113 So say he's innocent then.

r115 You and the other idiots suggesting a cash-grab really need to think things through. They wouldn't have gone public if this was about getting money, as that's the only leverage they have. Now the story is out there, what reason would Jeffries have to pay up if your version is accurate?

R118, Cassie went public with Diddy case and got her money the next day. Jeffries probably isn’t paying because he wants to take his chances in court. Meaning he probably has enough evidence to prove all sex was consensual and can show he hired the boys for work and not sex. If the boys can play dumb and pretend they didn’t know what was going on, he can play dumb and pretend they were turned on by his great looks and personality.

[quote]Meaning he probably has enough evidence to prove all sex was consensual and can show he hired the boys for work and not sex

Are you Jeffries himself? You pretty much have to be with that attempt at spin. Why doesn't he share all this evidence now before it even gets to court?

And there's a massive gulf between a celebrity like Diddy and Jeffries.

R119, good luck with that since like 100 guys are involved in the lawsuit (I guess some DLers will claim all 100 are lying...)

R121 - where do you get 100? I read about 20.

The guy with the story of the bleeding finger got paid $24,000 for the 7 day cruise and had previously been an escort.

"Then aged about 20, Mr Milkie says he had been struggling to pay his rent after being invited to move to New York by an agent, who ran a house full of aspiring models. He says a housemate soon introduced the idea of escorting, and a contact later introduced him to Mr Jacobson."

Not sure how the fuck you can be hired as an escort knowingly and complain - but here they are.

Many Dataloungers want to believe all elderly men who harass young men are themselves victims if they're ever called into question ethically.

I was astonished a few years ago that even Kevin Spacey (of all people!) elicited sympathy here. If Jeffrey Epstein had hired boys as well as girls, HE would get sympathy here.

Pandering charges are also possible, even for Jeffries associates. PS - Certain posters here have obviously never had to deal with the FBI in person.

This twitter thread by Rianna Croxford, the reporter who broke this story, mentions 100 victims

But it's the fault of all 100 of them! Not Jeffries!

The article doesn’t mention any numbers. From the tweet it is not clear how many actual plaintiffs the attorney seeking designation as a class action actually has. 100 could be his estimate of the potential size of the class, not the number of people who are actually making the accusations.

Why we've never heard of such a thing!

R106 "Some of these male models eventually had to move back to the shit holes and suburbia where they came from, bitter that they didn't make it big, and not bright enough to get very far in life. Now their looks have faded and they're pissed they once had the taste of the good life and now it will be forever out of reach."

Google: Ryan Daharsh

I don't know why some people cannot follow a linear train of thought. No one is saying Jerffries is a victim. Very few people are saying the models are lying. They could be telling the truth 100% and have a case to bring to court. What the few of us with functioning brains ARE saying is that most of the models knew exactly what they were getting into and were willing to take the risk. And now all these years later, with blood in the water and sour grapes over a career that never took off, they are looking for a payday. But I don't think these men were traumatized by what happened to them to the point they are expressing. But they do have to sell the trauma to get a bigger payday.

^i.e. - it couldn't just be "he inserted a finger in me..." It had to be a bloody finger. He might as well have said a blood finger with a jagged nail that he inserted in me as he cackled.

There are certain people like the Rose McGowens of the world who would have voluntarily gotten finger-blasted by the entire board of a directors of Miramax on a conference table if it would have meant being the next Gwenyth Paltrow. They are opportunist who take advantage of both sides of the pendulum. They are victims, yes. But mostly victims of their poor decisions, traumatized by something they knowingly walked into in the first place.

Male models trade on their sexuality, desirability and looks. There isn't much talent involved other than being highly fuckable. If you want an above-the-board career, you don't accept 24k in cash to travel on anyone's boat.

You can fuck my ass & mouth but HANDS OFF THE TAINT.

r130 You like to complain about posters not being able to follow a linear thought, and yet you and others like you constantly doublespeak. "Very few people are saying the models are lying" immediately followed by accusing them of lying. Others saying that Jeffries did nothing illegal and yet saying he might not be innocent.

It's telling how the Jeffries defenders here never have the guts to actually say what they want to say outright.

" We're lecherous Old Kweens who fantasize about being Mike Jeffries. Getting beautiful young men to touch our wizened cocks and forcing them to debase themselves for peanuts."

Happy now R133 ?

R133, where do I say the models are lying? Explain.

And someone can be guilt of something that is not illegal. You are aware of this right? Someone could be guilty of cheating on their boyfriend but no laws were broken.

R133 - so, a guy who admits he turned to escorting when he was a male model, gets hooked up with Jeffries, gets paid $24k and all expenses to go on a week cruise on the Queen Mary - he's completely innocent, right?

As far as Jeffries comment to that model after he refused to perform 'you're worthless' - well, yeah - he damn straight wasn't worth the $24k he spent.

How exactly is this illegal and worthy of a lawsuit? The audacity to sign up to be an escort, take $24k, not put out, and then sue the guy?

r134, it's cool you have a daddy fetish. I am sure the few of them that will touch you appreciate it.

It's all so gross

R136, prostitutes have the right to say "no"....everyone does

Daddy but not necrophiliac . Tough luck R137.

R139 - then the prostitute needs to return the money. See how that works? But he didn't, did he?

R136

R141, not if they're assaulted

r140, I'm a millennial. Save your age-related insults for others. You're a bore.

R144 frau say what?

r135 Are you an idiot? How would you frame your words:

[quote]What the few of us with functioning brains ARE saying is that most of the models knew exactly what they were getting into and were willing to take the risk. And now all these years later, with blood in the water and sour grapes over a career that never took off, they are looking for a payday. But I don't think these men were traumatized by what happened to them to the point they are expressing.

as anything other than accusing them of lying? Once again, desperately trying to pretend you didn't say the exact things you said. In fairness, you are right to be utterly ashamed of defending that creep.

And go on then, say Jeffries is innocent.

r136 It depends on what was and wasn't agreed to at the time. Hardly a surprise that the idea of consent puzzles you.

R143 - and where does it say he was assaulted? He knew these events would be sexual - he refused on the QM2 and then it stopped. You're working overtime here trying to make up some stuff to support the defendants.

Yes - I believe there were a FEW who were naive and didn't know - but I doubt they would have in the 'database' they had of men.

"Keith Milkie says he attended numerous events hosted by Mr Jeffries and Mr Smith between 2012 and 2014. He says he understood these events would be sexual but that nothing Mr Jacobson said could "prepare you for what's going to happen" next. Then aged about 20, Mr Milkie says he had been struggling to pay his rent after being invited to move to New York by an agent, who ran a house full of aspiring models. He says a housemate soon introduced the idea of escorting, and a contact later introduced him to Mr Jacobson. Mr Milkie, who identified as straight at the time, says he found some of the events "uncomfortable" and "painful". On one occasion, in Paris, he says Mr Jeffries instructed him to have sex with another man, which he "did not want or enjoy". During another, he says he was verbally abused by Mr Jeffries after saying "no" to a risky sexual act while on board the Queen Mary 2, an ocean liner which sails from England to New York. He says Mr Jeffries was drunk and tried to insert a "bleeding finger" into him. "I was in the bed putting on a fake smile, crying on the inside," he says. "Here I am in the middle of the ocean having this person four times my age in that position of power and influence belittle me to death and literally call me worthless… simply because I said no to something." He says Mr Jacobson paid him about $24,000 (£18,400) in cash for the seven-night cruise."

R147 i'm cumming!

[quote] How exactly is this illegal and worthy of a lawsuit?

Prostitution is illegal almost everywhere in the USA.

Then arrest the perps for engaging in prostitution, i.e. the models.

By R149's definition, pervy Jeffries is just an innocent john.

R144 Old pervs being apologists for other old pervs is worse than a bore .You're a cliche.

Funny - the guy mentioned in the article was talked about on DL.

R151 - do keep up - they were paid. But your self-righteousness won't let you get in the way of seeing that. Someone says they've been victimized!!! Go back to sipping your Starbucks iced coffee at your Queers for Palestine protest.

Jeffries is now EIGHTY?

Clearly he was the original 65 But All My Friends Say I Look 23! DL'er.

The point is not that Jeffries is innocent. It’s that no one involved in this is innocent.

[quote] Then arrest the perps for engaging in prostitution, i.e. the models.

[quote] By [R149]'s definition, pervy Jeffries is just an innocent john.

WTF??? Johns are not "innocent" under the law. They are the ones who get arrested more often than the prostitutes.

Clearly some of the young men didn't know.

I'm less likely to be as empathetic about the guy who seemed to clearly understand he was in an escorting situation. Unless he was beaten, raped or otherwise abused, I think that was more of a professional disagreement.

But clearly some of the young men, some of the models, were not as aware of what was happening.

I know male and female formally beautiful people young people who were traumatised by sexual assault in the fashion business. Genuinely traumatised. The point is that these are professions and young people have a reasonable expectation to not be sexually assaulted under any definition of sexual assault, in the workplace. Yes most knew the score - quid pro quo - but in fact A&F direction did NOT give the reward, just took the quid. Watch the documentaries and read the first hand accounts. The guys really thought these were employment opportunities. They were NOT young men advertising to provide sexual services. They were not escorts and whores. But the context in which sexual favours were requested and delivered was PROFESSIONAL, in the young men's point of view, and they have a VERY valid argument that they were sexually harassed in the workplace.

R156 - not aware is different than not prepared. Once clothes come off and requests happen - you are aware of what is happening if you have functioning eyes and ears.

They were not underage. I could see this as coming as an unwanted life lesson and not knowing what to do. This happens all the time in life - particularly when you're young.

[quote]I constantly was saying no

Maybe try saying yes once or twice.

If you dive into the story you learn that the executives did NOT reward the sex delivered. Maybe they got cash. They NEVER got career opportunities. They were strictly considered sex objects but they were NOT told this. In fact, the opposite. That is sex trafficking.

Its true the young figured it out and some stayed in and some got out. But the point is, Jeffries and his pals did NOT simply call up a whore agency and hire beautiful young men. He operated under false pretences and also seemed to get off on the power dynamics and humiliation he delivered to these young men.

R160 - where does it say that?

"The former CEO of Abercrombie & Fitch has been accused of exploiting young men for sex at events he and his partner hosted in the US and around the world, according to a BBC investigation.

Most of the men also allege that a middleman, who was hired by the fashion brand’s former boss Mike Jeffries, sexually “auditioned” them by requesting or offering to perform oral sex on them, before the young men were introduced to him and his partner, Matthew Smith."

So they were sexually auditioned and still went? Look - some of these young guys are not telling the whole truth. We're conflating a few different issues here - was there allegations against Bruce Weber and coercion to have sex? Yep. But this is talking about their parties/holidays/etc.

If you're going into an office for a modeling gig with your portfolio - that's one thing. But this stuff isn't that - at all.

r161 Precisely. But, of course, pros know how to take care of themselves. Jeffries didn't want that. He wanted desperate guys he could control, using his corporation to bait them and then using employees of that corporation to manage the whole thing.

It's unbelievable anyone could try and defend Jeffries, but I guess it shows just how pathetically jealous some DLers are of attractive guys.

[quote] The guys really thought these were employment opportunities

Were they told they were going for an audition, or were they told the truth (at least partial truth) that they were being invited to a private party being hosted by someone who would be in a position to get them a modeling job?

r160

[quote]Some of the men alleged they were exploited or abused and several told the BBC the possibility of modelling contracts with A&F was raised before they met Jeffries and Smith.

Right there.

R165 - and right there "alleged". But it looks like a lot of them were auditioned and others say they knew what to expect.

Just because they said 'possibility of modelling contracts' - they could also say - you could meet the man of your dreams! Doesn't change the fact that most were auditioned and flown to parties/houses/holidays - knowingly and paid well.

I think we need to separate two things here - one is the predatory behavior to models on set (and after) by photographers and potentially Jeffries. Another is being selected, auditioned sexually, and flown for a specific period of time to a place for FREE and paid money to be hired 'companions'.

And it seems they were allowed to say no - which is referenced many times. Unlike sex trafficking where you are NOT allowed to say no.

r145, I'm not a frau either. I'm a gay man. Your insults continue to be way off the mark.

“Possibility of modeling contracts” sounds like “not an audition.” Sounds like ”meet the guy socially and it could lead to something” which should put most people on notice that this is an “off the books’ situation. Granted that many of these guys aren’t the sharpest tools in the shed.

r151, I'm not near as old as you keep suggesting I am. Nor am I a frau. I'm a gay millennial who thinks you're a terrible, prudish, unfuckable bore.

These guys were idiots then if they truly didn't know what was involved with this. Old men always want something when they give nice "gifts". (And before the next absurd attack comes, no, I've never given gifts, I've only received them.) You pick up on that early in life unless you're a total naive fool who doesn't notice how the world works.. It's up to each person to decide if the trade is worth it. But complaining about it afterwards? I'm sure it wasn't pleasant, but come on. That was years ago. Time to get over it.

r166 You make a hell of a lot of assumptions to try and excuse Jeffries. Telling. Simple question for you: why wouldn't Jeffries simply hire actual escorts?

[quote]unless you're a total naive fool who doesn't notice how the world works

And what if they are that naive? They deserve to be punished by being taken advantage of? Are you really that lacking in empathy?

I have a feeling one of those making the lawsuit either 1) 'found Jesus' and has regrets over what he had done or general homophobia or 2) has a girlfriend who's now egging him on - THAT WAS ASSAULT! He should PAY!

R170 - and you make a hell of a lot of assumptions to condemn him. He just happens to be the head of A&F. They said he had a database of men already - presumably all were escorts. Do keep up.

Just because your John is the head of A&F doesn't mean you're going to get a modeling contract. Again - read the articles - most were auditioned and told what to expect. Hey - some of them probably DID parlay that into some A&F work. But they did not say they were there for modeling.

R171 - sounds like most of them got paid and could say no. Are you lacking in reading skills?

[quote]presumably all were escorts

So your defence about making assumptions...is to make more assumptions. Can't actually answer the question about why he didn't just hire pros, can you?

And no, I'm not making any assumptions, I'm judging based on what's actually been detailed by multiple men all with very similar stories. You're the one literally making stuff up top try and defend Jeffries. Why? And now trying to hide behind homophobia, pathetic. Just ignore there are openly gay men also accusing him, right?

Seriously, why are you trying this hard to defend Jeffries? You're just making yourself look like a fool.

r171, I do at times struggle with empathy for morons, yes.

r174 So your line is that if someone isn't as world-weary as you expect them to be, they deserve to be abused. You're an irredeemable piece of shit.

Why were these young guys injected with "liquid Viagra"? Were Jeffries et al. so repulsive they couldn't get their dicks hard otherwise?

r175, to be clear, that isn't exactly what I said, is it? (And to be clear, I'm r169/r174, not the other one that replied to your reply of my post for some reason.) "Deserves" isn't what I said.

I'M NOT A FRAU! I'M A GAY MAN !

R167 Fail hun . You need to post in caps and use exclamation points. That is de rigueur for DL frauen .

R175 - naive people get taken advantage of all the time - then after they are less naive.

R173 - read all the articles - they were auditioned, there were databases of guys, many said they knew that it was sexual, they knew they would get paid. What other transactional word do you have for that than escorting? Are you dumb? I didn't presume anything - it's right there.

R152 don't snap your garters paw-paw or no fruit cup.

Whatever, r178. You're not worth my time if you still think I'm a frau after I corrected you. No patience for people who can't admit they were wrong. Ciao.

This clearly ELDER ABUSE!

R181 we've no patience for people who can't admit their fashion choices are wrong. Addio Casalinga.

r177 So go on then, explain exactly what your position is. You've already said you lack empathy for those you view as "morons". Do you think those people deserved to be abused just because they aren't world-weary. Explain yourself. Once again, a Jeffries defender trying desperately to avoid just stating their thought outright.

r179 The fact that you assume that just because some knew in advance it would be sexual and accepted that means it applies to everyone involved is what makes you an idiot, and is also where you're making stuff up. I also love that you claim "I didn't presume anything" - you do understand what the word "presumably" in your post at r172 means, don't you? And to think you're questioning the intelligence of others.

I also notice my questions about why Jeffries wouldn't just hire professional escorts and why some posters are so invested in defending him have gone unanswered. As has my challenge for the defenders to outright say they think he's innocent.

Oooh - R180 got offended so now he's back to trolling with offensive pics instead of sensible replies.

Stunning! Brave! Forceful!

Fucking weak and teenager behavior. I know you have a few more hours in your childhood bedroom before Mom screams 'Dinner' from the kitchen - but use it in more constructive ways.

R176 I think the answer to that is yes, they were in fact that repulsive. The guy with the prosthetic nose made out of leather is the stuff of nightmares.

Re the why not hire escorts question, that seems the logical thing for him to do and I think many of these guys did trick on the side. It was mentioned up thread, or on another, but it seems like Jeffries got off on pushing guys who weren’t into it, either straight or unwilling. That seemed to be his kink so hiring willing escorts wouldn’t do it for him.

R185 triggered

[quote] [R175] - naive people get taken advantage of all the time - then after they are less naive.

Yes: and when they get taken advantage of illegally, their predators can go to jail.

Would you be as heartless towards old people who get scammed financially? They're also naive people who get taken advantage of.

What is perplexing to so many of us here is why you seem to perpetually want to blame the victims in these situations instead of the predators when the predatory behavior is illegal. And Jeffries has been repeatedly accused of doing illegal things. Yet you just want to tut-tut his victims for not being smarter. What does that say about you?

R189 - if old people are auditioned, given free trips, and paid thousands of dollars - then I think your analogy isn't what you think it is.

Your whole basis of argument is that there were young male models who were flown on what they thought were potential modeling assignments, were assaulted, and not paid.

These trips and events weren't scheduled through a modeling agent/booker. They were through a 3rd party who paid their travel, were auditioned, and were paid.

"The night before the event, Luke says he was paid €3,500 (£2,950) in cash, which he believed was "general spending money" for the three days he was in Madrid. But he says the assistant was "vague" about the plan.

Anybody who gets flown to Madrid, put up in a fancy hotel and is given 3,500 euros - without talking to an agent or knowing what they are working on - should question it. But even so, he took the money and did not partake in the sexual favors. He said no - and that was fine.

[quote]You're the one literally making stuff up top try and defend Jeffries. Why?

Because I hate you.

Isn't it like a well known secret sites like Model Mayhem as basically escorting sites? Connecting you with models all around the world...

Old Saw:

Q: How can you rape a whore?

A: Stop payment on the check.

R129 exactly. Ryan had a huge advertizing moment back in the day. I get the sense he fell on to hard times. Think he had some kids. He looked a little rough and I wondered if he had a substance issue after his modeling career faded. I followed him on Instagram a few years ago and posted a few comments to his more recent workout photo shoots at the time. Out of the blue he DMed me and asked me if I was wealthy. Said he had on occasion let guys worship him for a few thousand dollars. Made it clear he was straight and wouldn’t engage in kissing, sucking, or fucking.

r190 literally arguing that anyone who doesn't know how a modelling agency works deserves to be sexually abused

Because they were partying and had Crystal Dick, R174.

I meant R176,

R194 Good thing you didn't take Ryan up on his offer of the Feds would be after you too.

I totally see now why Whoopi asked, "But was it Rape, Rape?"

Threads like these remind me that DL is full of fucking sexual predators who rigorously put the responsibility for stopping sexual abuse on the victims. Perhaps people are naive to this shit because they shouldn't have to fucking deal with it?

This is not how the real world works. This is not how sexual assault works. This is not okay.

These were adults who knowingly walked into a sexually charged situations for money r200. These were not even legit work functions where the person could be misled into believing they were being paid for anything else other than escort work. They did it on the promise of possible gigs in the future. They took the risk and lost because Jeffries is scum. These aren't your normal sexual harassment victims for which we normally have compassion. They could have easily said no, and it sounds like on most occasions they could have left. But they didn't. This is not even like a Weinstein situation where they would have been black-balled from the industry for saying no. They sound like whores suing their johns because they contracted an STD. If everything had worked out in their favor, we would never be hearing from them.

Thank you for illustrating exactly what I was talking about.

Now that I've seen their posting history, R201 is a great one to block. 🚫

[quote]These aren't your normal sexual harassment victims for which we normally have compassion

Oh please, I bet you're in other similar threads similarly blaming the victims based on made up bullshit that they somehow knew what they were getting into.

[quote]They sound like whores suing their johns because they contracted an STD

Well there's an interesting piece of projection. Just how many people have you infected?

I'm pretty sure this cunt is one of our sock puppet trolls given some of the trademarks.

Not a sock puppet troll at all. I escorted way back in the day in NYC in the 90s. I know this type of person because I came across them all the time. Things happened to me - I've been robbed, I've been taken advantage of, I was lied to. But I never considered myself a victim of the situation BECAUSE I put myself in the situation. It sucked the way certain things work out. But if you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas. I accept full responsibility for what happened to me. No, that does not NEGATE the assholery of the people who did those things to me. But I walked away with a lesson learned and not to be so stupid in the future.

Show a me a real victim, and I'll show real compassion. And there are several real victims out there who deserve all of our compassion. I just know the difference between a victim and an opportunist.

Wow, didn't think you could sound more pathetic and yet you managed it

^ BTW, those model houses as they are described were everywhere. It takes a certain type of young person to navigate that world without falling for the siren call of NYC nightlife and fame. Those models, male and female, filled the bars, the clubs, private events that needed beautiful place fillers. They were bartenders, hostesses, caterers and came across all types of people who would offer them money for whatever reason. Most of them wanting a fast track to fame and success, took it. Most of them partook in drugs, cocaine, ecstasy. I mean entire households of these models were being shipped off to private Saudi yachts for trips around the world. And at the time, theses models were the coveted ones because they had what seemed easy access to everywhere you wanted to be. And they knew it and acted like it. You would not be able to last a week without knowing what was really going on around you. And if you didn't want to be a part of it, you didn't do it. It was as simple as that. From the telling of these guy's story, they got off easy. At least they didn't get their passports taken.

yes r207, I can tell your heart is just BURSTING with compassion...

[quote]And at the time, theses models were the coveted ones because they had what seemed easy access to everywhere you wanted to be. And they knew it and acted like it.

And there it is, the core of it all. A pissy jealousy that the attractive person had an attitude with you, which has now rotted into defending a creep like Jeffries and declaring these guys deserved to be abused. You lot always expose yourselves.

r209 says the poster who essentially just argued 'did you see how she was dressed? She deserved it'.

You're being stupid R210. There was no jealousy over them because I saw the road they were heading down over and over again, and it never ended well. I traveled in different lanes as them. I worked in different fields that often times found me in the same circles.

I still can't understand after 200 posts how you are still equating saying someone is guilty means the other person is innocent. Your brain must be as smooth as a Walmart truck tire. Please sit down for a second and try to get it through your head that that isn't necessarily always the case.

r211 Oh do stop with your bullshit, no-one is buying it. You're just flailing around trying to grab onto any possible argument in a pathetic attempt to defend Jeffries. How many times do you want to embarrass yourself in the same thread?

Pretty young things being taken advantage of - who knew.

Bats in the belfry, r212. I have no fucks to give about that pond life, but it is good to get all these arguments on the record for those of you who are thinking these sick thoughts to yourselves.

R212, you say a lot of nothing. You're just following me around on this thread repeatedly commenting on what I have said while adding nothing of your own. I am speaking from experience. You are speaking what, I don't know. It's nice to have a fan. Even a dumb one.

Can't hear ya, luv, but I'm sure you'll invent another sock puppet I haven't blocked to make sure you are.

Annabella Sciorra a victim? Yes. Asia Argento a victim? No. That is how I see the world.

Still can't hear ya, but it sure does look you like you've posted a good third of the responses on this thread. I wonder what makes you feel so strongly about this topic?

I don't feel strongly. I am just stubborn. And I hate faux rage and bullshit tears. These kind of cases dilute the waters of cases of real victims. And people trying to lump them all into the same category is wrong.

And how can you still respond to me if you have me on block? Why would you want to? Why are YOU so invested is in ME, is the better question.

And this is how we know you're full of shit. If you actually believed any of what you said, you would've stuck to the same argument throughout. Instead, and anyone who checks your post history can see, it's moving on from one argument to the next, and when that all fails you resort to the ridiculous ad hominem attacks.

And of course, it's the kind of poster who can't possibly believe more than one person could disagree with them, so believes he's talking to only one other poster.

[quote]These kind of cases dilute the waters of cases of real victims.

Again, don't try and pretend you care about victims. Because if you did, you'd at least consider the fact you could be wrong, and some of these guys could actually be victims. But no. They all deserved whatever happened to them, they're all liars, and there can be absolutely no possibility you might be wrong at all. And if you are wrong? Oh you just accused a victim of sexual abuse of being a liar and deserving it.

Meanwhile, if we're wrong? We called a piece of shit a piece of shit. Because even in the best case scenario for Jeffries, even if every guy agreed to what he wanted, he's still a piece of shit.

Please don't gaslight me R220. There is nothing contradictory to what I have said in my post. And you are the one that has been throwing around ad hominem attacks with your school yard insults and vocabulary, with Ad Hominem being the shiniest tool in your toolbox.

[quote]But no. They all deserved whatever happened to them, they're all liars, and there can be absolutely no possibility you might be wrong at all.

I have NEVER expressed this opinion. All the rage has left you ringing in your ears and hard of hearing because I have never said anyone deserved what happened. I have expressed that they put themselves in a situation, a perilous situation, where it would probably happen. And for them not to know that, they are either stupid or got in over their head and it didn't pay off. Most likely the latter.

And I have never said Jeffries wasn't a piece of shit. He's gross as fuck. And I have said as much. That we can agree on.

But please don't DJT me by thinking you can keep repeating false claims and that they will eventually stick. Because what you've stated above is absolutely no true about anything I've posted.

You two assholes are ruining this thread ffs

Moderator: shut down this thread.

It has devolved into a shitfest between two kaweens.

Respectfully

I've blocked the Jeffries apologist.

R208 boy's gotta eat

Neither of those guys are Alec Baldwin, Helen Keller.

r227 The one of the right looks more like Richard Gere.

R68- He looks gay from outer space.

Not sure why we're talking about Alex Baldwin but I'll support any detour from the arguing.

[quote]The former CEO of fashion giant Abercrombie & Fitch and his British partner have been arrested and are facing sex trafficking charges, the BBC understands.

[quote]Mike Jeffries, his partner Matthew Smith and the couple’s alleged middle-man were arrested on Tuesday morning.

[quote]The FBI and prosecutor's office are expected to announce more details at a press conference shortly.

But DLers told me they didn't do anything wrong...

He wanted to look like Kiefer Sutherland. How creepy must this be for KS?

Huh. Somehow I missed this thread devolving previously into a bitchfest. And since R232 didn't bother to clarify the latest news, here's a longer Guardian article about it:

"The former Abercrombie & Fitch CEO Mike Jeffries was arrested on Tuesday as part of a criminal sex trafficking investigation by federal prosecutors and the FBI in Brooklyn, according to news reports.

Jeffries was arrested with his British partner, Matthew Smith, and a third man, Jim Jacobson, as authorities investigate allegations that the men sexually exploited and abused young men at parties they hosted in the US and around the world. Jeffries and Smith are expected to appear in court later on Tuesday.

Eight men told a 2023 BBC investigation that they had been exploited and recruited for sex events by the former fashion boss. Federal prosecutors began and investigation in January 2024, following a civil suit filed by victims last year."

Now I'm wondering if he'll be in the same jail as Diddy awaiting trial. That would be fascinating.

Also, quite the early arrest: it's not even 10:30am in NYC!

R233, where are you getting this bit about him wanting to look like Kiefer? I don't see it anywhere, plus they're really not that similar-looking. (Kiefer would never bleach his hair, for one thing, or at least not in his 50s or 60s.)

Don't call me,Mikey!

r234 I quoted the opening paragraphs of the BBC article in my post, which said exactly what the paragraphs you copied and pasted said, so how exactly didn't I "clarify" what the news was?

The creepy man used his power and privilege to get a hard dick in his ass. The over 18 wannabe models needed money and obliged. All are morally bankrupt. All are exhibiting low and base human behavior that has been going on forever. Charge them all for prostitution/paying prostitutes if you want. But the wannabe models certainly do not deserve an kind of payout. I have no sympathy for people who make stupid decisions. They must live with them, learn from them and hopefully not repeat them.

But my dick was saying Yes.

When Jeffries is finally jailed, it will be his asshole constantly saying no to his fellow inmates. They may not react so kindly.

R241 Sadly for Jeffries, cagemeat doesn't rape 80 year old blown out holes. There are tighter and younger things for them fuck. He will however be beaten senseless from day one just because his face is so irresistibly punchable.

Global sex events? And where was I?

Payday!

[quote]The creepy man used his power and privilege to get a hard dick in his ass. The over 18 wannabe models needed money and obliged. All are morally bankrupt.

JFC, victim-blame much? Middle American kids barely out of high school would have absolutely no clue how to handle a come-on by a pervy old CEO. It is APPALLING that you're claiming ANY of these kids are "morally bankrupt" solely for not being able to fend off the advances of an authority figure.

Curious about what he looks like now. Is there a recent pic? 80! With that light socket hairdo!

Bet they could FEND OFF you RUSSIE.

Stop the victim blaming. Sex trafficking is a crime.

The other guy arrested was the famous noseless faced man who was their procurer and “auditioned” the boys.

r245 This thread has already shown there are some vile pieces of shit posting here, including that cunt you're replying to. The inevitable reply to you will be something like "when I was 18 I fucked for money" as if that means everyone else is the same, or "they should've known what the deal was" as if being naive means they deserved to be sexually abused.

There are bad people on both sides of this tawdry take. Obviously Jeffries is evil. Perhaps these victims should shoulder some blame. Selling you body for sex is illegal. So if it is now considered being victimized for having your cock sucked on a yacht and making thousands, sign me up!

"I was constantly saying no until I could say no no more. How many times can you say no before you just have to say yes? After all, I was only in my 20s. It was almost like he had a gun to my head without the gun."

That's what I'm hearing. Look, I said no in my 20s. Wasn't hard to do at all.

R245 Any 18 or older male knows not to let some gross old man stick their dick in them. Shut the fuck up with your victim blaming nonsense. Unless they were drugged like Diddy did, or if they were young women, I would feel differently. These were physically stronger young athletes who could have said no at any time. Sorry, just not buying what you are peddling.

Cool, so I guess sex trafficking is fine as long as the victims are male!

You can always count on service providers to go back to notable men for a second payout

R254 Adult men who are willing and able to fuck for money? That'd be a yes from me, dawg.

R254 I wouldn't award them a dime. They were paid handsomely at the time AND got to bust nut.

Do you guys think Bob Mizer's Athletic Guild models were victims? Was it sex trafficking when they had their infamous pool parties? Were parties at the Playboy mansion with fucking in the grotto considered sex trafficking?

These guys were obviously complete and total scumbags. The thing that gives me pause is that most of them were auditioned by performing sex acts on their procurer days or weeks before agreeing to show up. That should have given them a pretty good idea of what was expected of them.

Some of you need to learn to read, a lot of this was NOT consensual

r260 Facts don't matter to those posters. They hate those young men for some reason (likely jealously that they are attractive), and nothing will convince them otherwise. It's utterly pathetic.

Schadenfreude. It tastes so good and sweet.

I hate the times we live in. The only upside is seeing all the taste-makers, gate keepers and self described "KOoL KiDZ", being removed from their positions of authority in disgrace, their legacy in tatters and jail time waiting for them.

If drugs are guns were used, then of course it is rape or assault. But some of the stories I read were just parties and yachts.. Can't paint every situation with the same brush. I hope they throw the book at him anyway, he is atrocious to look at.

[quote]R245 This thread has already shown there are some vile pieces of shit posting here, including that cunt you're replying to.

Yes, I see what you mean. R251, R252 AND R253 are all similar. Same poster? (I'm about to block all of them and will see for myself, but just to let the other non-trolls here know about it.)

[quote]Some of you need to learn to read, a lot of this was NOT consensual

They know how to read. They're merely sexual assault apologists and enablers.

Just blocked them. Surprise, surprise, half the thread suddenly disappearing. Gee, how shocking.

Pouf-Diddle, Harvey Weinstein! Hugh Heffner! Bill pudding pops Cosby.

This 👇 bastard had protests at his fucking memorial service and his ancestors got a close up look of just how little people think of him.

In their final acts and on their way out, their legacy is removed with the truth. Who is next?

Hey, who’s the cute light skinned brother from the US Attorneys office?

So glad this prick is going to jail and at 80-Congratulations!

He is 80 now, so he was doing all this bullshit in his 60s and 70s? Ridiculous.

Imagine looking like Rocky Dennis.

Imagine paying someone to make you look like Rocky Dennis and describing yourself as a "cool kid" in your sixties and seventies.

How can I apologize for him?

Cum aboard we're expecting you

^ lol

Meanwhile in Rice Lake, Wisconsin….

So much sociopathic victim blaming. Not to mention the possibility of underaged victims. Mike Jeffries and the guy with no nose are a couple of disgusting pieces of shit.

When are they gonna get Anthony Watson?

Any late edition A&F Quarterlies skyrocketing on eBay?

He looks like an old lady now

Ugly people have always tried to find different ways to get what they need.

USA TODAY weighs in with this opinion piece:

Yikes. But lord bless his full head of silver hair. It's like Miranda Priestly.

As well as stupid people such as yourself, R281.

Is "liquid Viagra," that's injected a thing:?

His face has that 'puppet' look. Ick.

In the pic at r282, he actually looked okay. A bit craggy but normal. The plastic surgery and fillers really disfigured him

“I need a lift, I really want to go for the geisha look. But with Anne Heche hair…”

R265/R266-a classic outrage signaler. Fuck off, cunt.

According to this story, the men were first paid for sex by the recruiter then those that passed the “audition” were invited to travel.

[quote] From 2008 to 2015, Mr. Jeffries and Mr. Smith employed Mr. Jacobson to act as a recruiter, according to the indictment. Mr. Jacobson paid men to engage in sex acts with him; he would then choose the ones who would travel to events in New York City, the Hamptons and elsewhere across the globe for the purpose of engaging in commercial sex, prosecutors said.

I’m sorry, but these men are whores and this prosecution is bullshit. They are not underage. Why is the federal government wasting tax dollars prosecuting this?

Oh of course, the FBI must be wrong and r290 is right. Moron.

R290, geez, read some articles about this. Some of the victims were passed out when he took advantage of them. And you need to look up the definition of sex trafficking

Whores!

Funny how r290 didn't bother posting other quotes from the same article

[quote]The men said Mr. Jeffries threatened them, warning that failure to comply with requests for certain acts during the events could harm their career prospects, prosecutors said.

[quote]The men were pressured to consume alcohol, Viagra and muscle relaxants during the events, and they were forced to engage in sex acts without their consent, according to the indictment. The victims, at least one of whom was as young as 19, were also not able to leave the events without Mr. Jeffries’s and Mr. Smith’s approval, prosecutors said.

These are the three men that r290 thinks are innocent and being victimised.

Sex-trafficking requires the use of force, fraud or coercion to compel a person to engage in sexual activity against their will.

Prosecutors should not use it as a fallback if they can’t prosecute a rape as rape.

I simply do not believe that guys who had already taken money for sex and then are invited to travel to meet their customers powerful friends are victims of sex trafficking. It demeans actual victims to use that law.

If they were drugged and raped, prosecute that.

r295 Read the indictment, fuckwit. They used fraud by not telling the guys sex would be involved and giving them fake itineraries that were made to look like they'd just be doing modelling stuff. They used coercion by forcing the guys to give up their property, including wallets and phones, and locking them away, and if a guy refused to do something they'd threaten their career prospects. And then there's the forced drug injections and forced sexual stuff. So, every single one of the things you mentioned actually happened.

Now, even if we grant your premise that these guys were escorts - so what? Escorts are still allowed to say no. Escorts are allowed to leave when they want. Escorts should not be threatened. Escorts cannot be drugged against their will. You seem to think that as long as you pay someone you can do anything you want to them.

And, of course, most were not escorts. Because these fucks didn't want pros. The no-nose creep dangled the chance of modelling opportunities and say he'd pass their name along but only if they did something for him first. That in no way means they should be treated in the way they were treated. It doesn't give carte blanche to the creeps. And you're a vile person for thinking otherwise.

R296, amen!

They gave one of the guys an injection in his dick (to get it up and stay hard) and he had a bad reaction and they wouldn’t take him for medical help.

These guys are monsters.

You do realize that an indictment is the prosecution’s allegations, not proven facts? Of course the prosecutors are going to frame the case as a violation of the law. They have to. That doesn’t mean their allegations are fair or accurate descriptions of what happened or why.

You say they are “not escorts.” I say if you take money from an ugly old man for having sex and then agree to meet his friends, you are a whore.

Yes, whores can say no. They can be raped. That doesn’t make them victims of sex-trafficking,

You have a different definition of “force” than I do. I suspect these guys were actually free to say “fuck you’ and walk away. They decided not too and then regretted their own decisions when the payoff they hoped for (but apparently were never promised) didn’t materialize. Boo hoo.

[quote] They gave one of the guys an injection in his dick (to get it up and stay hard) and he had a bad reaction and they wouldn’t take him for medical help. These guys are monsters.

Maybe. But not sex-traffickers and not the legitimate focus of federal law enforcement.

Not to mention that the witnesses are suing the accused in a parallel proceeding.

r299 Ah, I see, so the stuff in the indictment that backs up your opinion of them being escorts is 100% fact, but the stuff in the same indictment that contradicts your opinions is just opinion and spin? You can't have it both ways.

How exactly could they walk away when their personal property was taken from them and hidden away? Oh, but you can ignore that bit because the indictment isn't accurate. Except, again, for the bits you agree with.

Thanks for showing us that you're an idiot to be safely ignored.

Yes, r302. When a prosecutor includes evidence that undermines his or her own case, it’s a pretty safe bet that it is uncontrovertibly true.

How handy for you, I'm sure that's just what the legal procedurals you're obsessed with taught you.

It's almost as if the FBI might have a better handle on what count as trafficking than you.

[quote] Thanks for showing us that you're an idiot to be safely ignored.

If this conversation is your idea of ignoring an idiot, I can see why you are confused about a great many things.

[quote] It's almost as if the FBI might have a better handle on what count as trafficking than you.

So if the FBI charges you with treason for criticizing Trump next year, no one would have the right to criticize the arrest?

They said MLK was a communist and a threat to national security. Who are we to disagree?

I’m guessing that Mr. Jeffries could have hired some muscles to intimidate his victims.

R306, Trump isn't president now. You actually need evidence to arrest someone

R300, yes, they are sex traffickers. What part of the definition of trafficking do you not get?

r306 You're embarrassing yourself now

I understand the definition just fine. It’s the application to this mess of a case that I object to.

First, anti-sex trafficking laws have traditionally been applied to pimps who lure women into prostitution and take the money for their work, not to the men who hire the prostitutes. Second, there is typically genuine threats of violence and coercion involved, not “they took my coat and hid it.” Finally, the “victims” of sex trafficking are supposed to be trafficked against their will. I object to applying that label to these guys who went voluntarily and then at best changed their mind at the last minute, or at worst are engaging in after-the-fact regrets.

Obviously, an ambitious prosecutor believes these facts can be interpreted as a violation of sex-trafficking laws. That doesn’t mean they should be.

^ You don't even know the full facts of the case, but you're siding with these sleazeballs because...reasons

So now your ultimate argument is to suggest I must be a sleazeball myself to object to this prosecution. I think that says more about the quality of your arguments and your ability to put them forward than it does about me.

Besides, what’s more likely here—I am an international sex trafficker or you are a whore?

There is a predatorial subset in our community, and this is a prime example.

R313, you're the one tripping over yourself to defend sex traffickers without even knowing the full extent of the evidence against them

Exactly why do you think these guys are being unfairly targeted? Jeffries is a rich white man, guys like him usually get a free pass in the legal system

I think he behaved very badly, but no worse than many other rich men who lure attractive young women to their yachts and parties. I think they are being targeted for criminal prosecution in part because they are gay.

By way of contrast, let’s look at two other recent high-profile sex-trafficking cases: Sean Combs is accused of compelling participation in his “freak-offs” with violence and by threatening to withhold drugs that he was supplying to addicted women or cutting them off from the financial support they depended on. Jeffrey Epstein trafficked in underage girls. These are appropriate targets of federal law enforcement. Do you think Jeffries would be facing sex-trafficking charges if the wannabe models at his parties were women.? I don’t.

"cutting them off from the financial support they depended on"

According to your own logic, that makes them "whores" who were doing this for the money and don't deserve any sympathy

"Do you think Jeffries would be facing sex-trafficking charges if the wannabe models at his parties were women.? I don’t."

MOST sex abuse and trafficking cases that are brought to trial involve female victims. Male victims are less likely to come forward....because of people like you

^very weak

Your own arguments are weak. You never looked at the data to determine that most sex trafficking cases have female victims?

Irrelevant.

No, it's not. You clam prosecutors only brought these charges because Jeffries and co. targeted men....when, in reality, most cases that are prosecuted have female victims

I’m not saying cases are only brought when the victims are men. I’m saying THIS case would not have been brought if the victims were women.

Alleged victims.

The World of Secrets podcast, produced by the BBC, has a whole season devoted to this story.

[quote]Besides, what’s more likely here—I am an international sex trafficker or you are a whore?

How very intriguing that you felt the need to add the word "international" in there. The fact that you limit your sex crimes domestically doesn't make you an angel.

You're all through this thread attacking the victims, so don't try and pretend your opinion was swayed by pretending this is an unfair prosecution. You decided the victims deserved it from the start, and are now just using that as a shield to defend sex abusers.

r317 Ah, resorting to whataboutism, the admission of idiocy.

For the record, I am not any kind of sex trafficker. Will you tell us you're not any kind of whore?

Saying guys who take money for sex are whores, and that they knew or should have known that they weren’t being invited to these parties for their wit, is not attacking victims. It’s denying that they are “victims.”

That is not inconsistent with criticizing the prosecution on other grounds.

Sure you aren't. And I've never taken money for sex. Was that meant to be some clever comeback?

And now you've gone from claiming your issue was with the trafficking accusation alone to insisting that the guys involved were not victims at all. That says it all about what kind of person you are. Even if they were escorts - and your insistence on using the word "whores" is another good example of what kind of person you are - the stuff done to them would still make them victims. Only sexual abusers like Jeffries and yourself would think otherwise.

But since you think this prosecution is so flawed I'm sure you'll have no problem saying it won't even make it to trial, right? So you'd agree that if it does go to trial, you're a moron? You'd have no problem agreeing to that, right?

Of course it is going to trial.

I’m not sure why you think that my making more than one argument somehow invalidates them all.

There is no meaningful difference between “whore” and “escort” in this context. The point is these were not naive kids. They knew what they were doing. They chose to put themselves in this situation. For profit or advantage.

You have absolutely no way of knowing if they were naive or not. You have no way of knowing if they knew what they were doing, nor what they did or did not choose to do. And that's because you want to believe they deserved it all. You made your mind up and nay contradictory facts are dismissed as prosecutors lying. It's pathetic.

Explain why exactly it's just so impossible for you to consider that the victims are actually telling the truth. Do you have some kind of secret evidence that proves otherwise. Why should so many different men with near-identical stories be ignored?

And yes, your choice to continually use whore really does tell us what kind of person you are. I suspect you're so concerned about this case because you're worried about precedents being set.

The issue is not what happened at the parties. It’s why they chose to attend the parties at all after being invited by a man who had paid them for sex. If you choose to believe they were babes in the woods, that’s your choice.

We toss the word “whore” around rather freely on Datalounge. My use of it says nothing about my character, but your continuous attacks on me say something about yours.

R316 stop typing. Just stop typing.

R329 seems to think only innocent, angelic people can be abused

So many pretty young things - how could anyone resist?

[quote] R329] seems to think only innocent, angelic people can be abused

No, but I do think that when it comes to criminal prosecution for a crime defined by “against their will,” the fact that these men knew what they were doing and chose to be there is key.

r335 apparently talked to ALL the victims and knows all about them

And, no, trafficking doesn't have to be "against their will" for it to be trafficking

It has to be through the use of “force, fraud or coercion.”

^ Yep, and the fraud and coercion are pretty clear

Not true. The only suggestion of coercion is “they hid my stuff”. Pretty thin. The fraud allegations are that the men, who were recruited by being paid for sex, were not told “the full extent and nature of the sexual activity that would be required.” Again pretty weak for sex-trafficking when the men had previously engaged in sex for money. Also, the defendants are accused of causing “men to believe that attending the Sex Events could yield modeling opportunities with Abercrombie or otherwise benefit their careers.” For this to be fraud the prosecution would have to prove that this was a lie.

Obviously, the allegation that on “more than one occasion” men were raped or drugged and sexually assaulted are allegations of serious crimes and, as I said, should be prosecuted as rape. The defendants are not charged with rape. Why is that?

"For this to be fraud the prosecution would have to prove that this was a lie."

It was. They never had any interest in helping these guys with their modeling careers. You don't even know the full extent of all the charges but you're determined that you know more about prosecuting crimes than the FBI

You don’t know that no one who attended these parties was ever hired. That’s what the plaintiffs in the civil suit allege. They don’t know either.

The Jeffires fanboy here is just making stuff up and pretending it's fact, and then dismissing actual facts as spin and lies. It's pathetic.

Any way we can pull this thread back from the brink? The case is going to be fascinating but the catfighting is unbearable.

r343 Fair point and I apologise for my extended role in that.

Will be interesting to see if the no nose guy turns on Jeffries. Or if any of the staff employed to handle these rape parties do so. And who are these people who have jobs to supply lube and poppers and tell guys to douche or shave or wear this costume, etc? How exactly does someone recruit for a role like that?

Girls! Girls!! Stop fighting - you're both pretty!

If that were true, certain posters here wouldn't be so jealous of attractive people that they cheer on them being sexually abused

You’re right R344. There was a large cast of enablers lower on the totem pole that should be coming forward anytime now.

Until reading about his recent court appearance, I never knew that Jeffries was still married…to a woman. She showed up with their adult son to the hearing. They must be so proud…and trrrified the money will dry up.

R347 The totem pole looked a lot like a cock.

The only thing he said 'no' to was the food.

His lawyers are now saying he has dementia.

Why did he get all of those surgeries to look like Ellen DeGeneres?

r351 Anyone still think he's innocent?

I’ve obviously heard of early onset Alzheimer’s, & standard Alzheimer’s, but late onset Alzheimer’s?! If I thought about it at all, I would’ve presumed that would apply - if at all - only to one who was in deep old age.

Using the "I'm just a sad old man!" routine, like the Golden State Killer

That old man has sucked quite the large amount of young white cock.

Oops, I forgot trafficking all those aspiring male models!

Sort of makes you wonder whether the models that ended up in the catalogs were the ones who put out to get the gigs or whether it was the desperate wannabes who were never going to make it as models were the ones who put out to try to get ahead.

Of course, he's still a sex pest and gross, either way.

Isn’t that convenient?

[quote]His lawyers are now saying he has dementia.

A brilliant ploy!

I was just checking to make sure they were all healthy!

R344, ask Diddy about that. I don’t think it’s difficult.

I have dementia, too.