The Substance

She’s never been nominated for an Oscar. Wow. I thought she got one for GI Jane.

I think she's tremendous!

I am beyond excited for this film- this is probably the film I am most excited about this year

And she is on many of the critics at Goldderby's lists as a Best Actress contender

We know how that worked out for Toni Colette (Hereditary), but she was generally 10th or 11th at Goldderby, and these critics have Demi in the Top 5

She's had upper blepharoplasty. Bottom half of face looks different, as well.

Her work looks good. And she got her shit together, mental health wise. for a long while it was looking dicey.

Reportedly that douche Asston did quite the number on her. I have her book, it's on my to-read pile.

Has she ever said if she supports Trump? I seem to recall her being right-wing just like Bruce back when they were married.

Who would have thought there’d be a time when Demi Moore and Pamela Anderson would be considered as serious Oscar contenders?

I love it.

R7- Me too-- I suspect Pam gets in-

Has any actress aged better than Demi?

R9- I mean she has had TONS of surgery- (Yes, more than Nicole) but she looks otherwordly beautiful

[quote] Has she ever said if she supports Trump? I seem to recall her being right-wing just like Bruce back when they were married.

Would you fuck off already. Jesus.

[quote]She's had upper blepharoplasty.

What has she *not* had?

Everyone ought to go to her doctors. They are superb!

All this talk about body image and her entire body and face were made in a science lab.

R13- Agreed- other than the cheek/nabio area there (she pushed it- but stopped just in time) she looks UNREAL- stunning.

She was very pretty to begin with and probably didn't need a lot of the surgery she had.

No one asked for this but this film makes more sense and has more relevance than the CGI version of "Snow White".

I think she looks different and not for the better- so weird. And the film hasn’t even been released so how can you talk Oscar?

It was the hit of Cannes r18

Her sucked in cheeks look ridiculous in many pics.

[quote]Her sucked in cheeks look ridiculous in many pics

Some of that is shadow.

Scrolling down to the pic of her in that tan camisole, it does not look like her. She looks like one of the dolls she collects.

She looks great.

New York Times critics pick.

But be warned: This is a very gory and often bombastic movie.

I just got back from seeing this. I like body horror films but am certainly not an aficionado—I did love this film, though. Very stylistic and hyperreal. I never in a million years could have envisioned Demi Moore doing something like this. If you've seen Brian Yuzna's "Society" (1989), you'll get an idea of what some of film's special effects are like. It is outrageous and disgusting, but I also at times was very moved by it. It really is a story about hating yourself.

There is a brutal sequence in which the two halves of Moore's character (Moore, who at that point has been completely physically degraded to the point of looking like one of the hags in Ken Russell's "The Witches", and Qualley, her younger spawn) come face to face. Qualley beats Moore to a literal bloody pulp. The scene goes on and on and it almost made me feel sick, but it also brought a huge wave of sadness over me because it physicalized just how much this woman hated herself. I expected a lot of gruesome spectacles and nasty shit (which it delivers--trust me), but I didn't expect to be so moved.

R19 Which is no guarantee it will be well sold in this country!

Remember that pic (for W?) where they edited out half her waist? And she was already thin.

[quote]R10 she looks otherwordly beautiful

I wouldn’t go THAT far…

I don’t think I can ever feel really okay about Moore, as she was supposed to be a real meltdown of a demanding cunt around the time of STRIPTEASE. I lived in L.A. at the time, and everyone hated her.

Just a ruthlessly unpleasant person.

[quote] It was the hit of Cannes [R18]

That doesn't automatically mean it will be well sold in this country.

Demi's book was good. It was several years ago. Many of you hyperbolic Helen Kellers have never heard of photoshop. She doesn't look hypnotically beautiful in real life. Ashton did not destroy Demi. Demi has fought demons her entire life. She is interesting but very superficial. Demi has been a lesbian for years.

If she's a lesbian what does that make Ashton?

This film has across the board critical acclaim. Moore will definitely get an Oscar nomination.

Disgusting

[quote] She seems really grounded and normal

She's never been either one of those.

I thought this was a fun interview with Demi and Margaret that reveals some of their personality quirks for sure. I had no idea Demi had a massive doll collection or a collection of oversized items and miniatures. Margaret has always come off as a little quirky in interviews I've seen of hers, but genuine and sweet. She doesn't put on airs and is always polite and seems happy to be there. The world frankly needs more Margaret Qualleys and less Blake-condescending-horse-faced-cunt-Livelys.

Demi was hetero but now she's had a girlfriend for years. I guess I shouldn't say lesbian, rather, bi.

I really like Qually and it would be the reason I'd see this movie.

Demi keeps giving the same spiel about the meaning of the film like Faye Dunaway gave during the press junket she did for Mommie Dearest (“Only his knows what really happened between those two souls.”)

A lesbian.

USA Today.

I’ve booked to see it this weekend. Going to go to the evening show on Sunday as that audience always seems to be the best for this kind of thing.

Going to try to keep my eyes and ears open throughout but this just sounds like the most interesting film to emerge from this year’s Cannes and fall film festivals. By far.

Fun fact: Margaret’s mom dated Dennis Quaid in the early 2000s.

It’s an interesting film but also a bit silly in execution. The first half is softcore porn and the second half is body horror. My theater laughed A LOT during that final act, especially when the monster was born.

Demi is great but goes full camp once Elisabeth’s beauty is drained because Sue takes a few extra days (not when her finger ages but when half her body ages). That scene where Elisabeth is cooking tons of dishes while Sue’s interview airs on tv was really ridiculous and Demi was pretty cringy.

I don't think Demi will be nominated. It would take a track record of "She should have been nominated for XYZ" and that doesn't exist IMO. I'm guessing she's never come close in the nomination process. The opposite was true of Emily Blunt and Jennifer Jason Leigh, who were probably 6th place a few times. Or, in the case of JLC, in a hugely loved film that got nominations across the board and won Best Picture.

I say this as a Demi fan. Maybe she was on the cusp for A Few Good Men and GI Jane?

JLC won as a career Oscar. Demi COULD get a nomination as a thank you for her being a big star in the 90s but her fame stayed there pretty much. By choice mostly, as she stepped back from acting in the 00s onwards. She ended up becoming more a celeb than an actress once she married Ashton.

Jennifer Jason Leigh has been nominated for two Oscars.

The Hateful Eight wasn’t a horror either. Neither was EEAAO. One was one of Tarantino’s western tales and the latter was a sci-fi flick.

The film as a whole will be mostly ignored by Oscar. They rarely acknowledge horror, if ever, yet alone a hip body horror story that had very little dialogue and where half the film is softcore porn, with tons of gratuitous body shots from both Demi and Margaret, but mostly the latter.

The film looks like an homage to other horror films including THE SHINING, (men's bathroom scene, Kubrick used a red bathroom in the shining to chilling affect), CARRIE, (the ending) and another film I can't place.

Nothing about this film is like The Shining.

The mens bathroom scenes are similar

There was ONE mens bathroom scene. A woman going into the bathroom and overhearing her boss talking shit about her on the phone was like The Shining?

The red mens room scenes stood out for me in both films. if you don't see a similarity, this is not worth arguing with you about. You're unnaturally touchy about an inconsequential topic.

While I wasn’t grossed out by it (it’s a horror movie, folks), a large segment of the film played more like a long, highly stylized music video rather than a narrative- driven feature film. There wasn’t much ‘substance’. Old white men prey on and are obsessed with young white women. We all know this. Women obsess with maintaining their youthful glow, especially in Hollywood. We know this. The movie had NOTHING to say about facts we know. It just was an exercise in stylized horror. The acting as across the board average.

I cannot comprehend how this film won ‘ Best Screenplay’ at Cannes. There is practically no dialogue in this film, and what’s there is hardly award-worthy.

R51 there was ONE mens room scene in this

The bathrooms at the TV studio were all very reminiscent of the famous men's room scene in "The Shining". The hallway and carpeting is also a blatantly obvious nod, as is the hallway being drenched in a torrent of blood at the end.

I was shocked by the extent of prosthetics and monster makeup that both Demi and Margaret had to don in this movie. I didn't envision it going that far. It is very much redolent of what you see in "Society" (1989).

In addition to donning that grotesque monster suit for the finale, Margaret also had to wear prosthetic tits throughout the movie so that she'd have the "rack of a lifetime" (her words).

R54 the hallway? That isn’t the bathroom. The bathroom is seen ONCE and it isn’t red. It’s white.

Margaret shows her tits in this and yes her tits are amazing and perky and small. She wore something under her shirts to make them look bigger and even perkier.

Dennis Quaid give the best performance in the film.

I don't know whether Demi Moore will get an Oscar nomination, but whoever that actress is starring in The Substance might have a shot.

R56 you must be acting pedantic just for the sake of trolling here. Yes, the bathroom is white, but the stalls are bright red, and the framing/layout is very similar to the bathroom set in The Shining. Anyone with two eyes and a functioning cerebral cortex could recognize the similarity. The fact that the carpet in the hallway just outside that bathroom resembles the famous carpet pattern seen in The Shining would suggest the director knows/admires that movie, therefore any other similar visual motifs (i.e. the bathroom layout and choice of red stalls) are not a coincidence.

Her surgery looks pretty good but only because we’ve all been conditioned by the monstrosities of Meg Ryan, Nicole Kidman and the rest. Compared to those it’s great. But it still looks fake

[quote] Has she ever said if she supports Trump

Oh FFS.

Why would Demi Moore support Trump?

Hagsplotation is back!! I saw it last night and laughed so hard!

This should have been Madonna’s comeback vehicle.

r56 I think that poster might be brain damaged or something, I got zero The Shining vibes from that pretty generic-looking bathroom. And yes, there was only one short scene in it, I don't know why he's fixating on it so much.

It's the hallways that seem like they're from The Shining.

[quote]That scene where Elisabeth is cooking tons of dishes while Sue’s interview airs on tv was really ridiculous and Demi was pretty cringy.

I agree, that whole segment was painful to watch. Demi is most certainly not a comedic actress, let's just put it that way.

This film has many similarities with Au hasard Balthazar and Goldfinger.

The Elephant Man, David Lynch's version is another reference..

Did the unknown Demi appear in Hustler magazine… or was it Oui?

Quaid was so happy to have a job. He's on the outs after aligning himself with maga.

Enjoyed watching her being interviewed on CBS Sunday Morning

Oui, I believe.

Margaret has a really goofy personality which is clear from the video at R36. She really vamped it up for her role in this movie, but it's obvious that she couldn't be more different in real life. I think she's beautiful but my inkling is that most boring hetero males would not classify her as attractive.

Demi is older and more attractive than Margaret, who is certainly pretty, but kinda basic. She resembles hot dad Paul more than mama Andie.

[quote]R73 Margaret has a really goofy personality which is clear from the video

I think she was raised on a rural, clothing optional (seriously) farm in N. Carolina. Her mom is kind of dippy.

Wikipedia says she was a debutante, so that would be an odd combination.

Let’s say “debutante” does not mean what it once did.

It’s kind of a shame that this goes so far off the rails and the writer/director completely loses control of the film in the last 20 minutes. I thought the first two hours were an absolute masterpiece.

But once you start so obviously referencing THE SHINING, THE THING and CARRIE all at once, it was really time to reign in it. Tim Bevan at Working Title is quite an experienced film producer. I’m surprised they weren’t able to convince the writer/director to show some restraint. The only thing it achieved in the end was very quickly convincing the audience not to take this film at all seriously.

It owes a lot to Aronofsky’s REQUIEM FOR A DREAM as well.

I thought Demi was great. As much as Notting Hill needed Julia Roberts, The Substance needed an actress of Moore’s stature to work. (I do wonder if this was offered to Madonna, as she, of course, is living it. Madonna probably said she wanted to play both Elisabeth AND Sue.) I thought Moore’s participation was quite canny of her because, for a while, it seemed like this could be a cult film favourite for the ages, a career topper that would lead future generations back to some of her biggest hits in the ‘80s and ‘90s. Unfortunately, given writer/director Coralie Fargeat’s determination to demolish her film - the end sequence really is the equivalent of a punk band destroying their instruments and equipment - I think if this film has any legacy at all it will be as a cinematic curio rather than a masterpiece on par with Cronenberg’s best work.

For those going on about the lack of dialogue in the screenplay, film is a visual medium. The Substance communicated a lot through its concept, action, imagery; the way the actresses treated each other, etc. Lack of dialogue was not the problem. Lack of restraint was.

I also don’t get the “soft porn” comments; obviously some people don’t see many films or understand “the gaze” of the camera. Just because there is nudity, it doesn’t make something porn. Fargeat was daring anybody to find the film at all erotic and the depiction of the network executive and the neighbour made it clear what she thought of that kind of attention and objectification of women. Even the two men Sue brought home were completely gormless and stupid; there was nothing erotic about her pursuits; she wasn’t even in pursuit of pleasure, she was seeking possession and an ego boost. The film’s point of view was pretty clear; Sue herself was a one-dimensional doll-like object rendered in pink and flesh tones. She was a blow up doll. I suppose the film was as critical of some women’s aspirations - ultimately diminishing themselves for men and the masses - as it was of men objectifying and hating women, especially mature women.

I felt a lot of empathy for Elisabeth and felt like the film had come to a full circle resolution once she decided to terminate the experience. I felt like it was sufficiently provocative and gave audiences a lot to think about up to that point. Everything that came after was just overkill, completely unfocused and was detrimental to the film. It just made everybody involved look like fools.

There was something about the relationship between Elisabeth and Sue - as two halves of a whole - that needed more attention. Elisabeth seemed quite accomplished at the film’s start, quite confident. I suppose, if anything, it was mostly a parable but she seemed quite warm and kind, and seemed to be helping women, generally. I didn’t see any of the appetites in her that Sue depicted later in the film. (And I LOVED the “Demi Cooking” scene and thought she was great. I imagine the Cannes audience must’ve been roaring with laughter throughout that sequence.) See a screenplay can be about ideas as well and this film certainly had a lot of them that were illustrated through imagery and action.

(cont.)

Maybe The Substance will be one of those films that you see once but think about forever. I still think it’s quite sad what Elisabeth did to herself when she was so accomplished before she took the substance. Ironically, I think just viewing this film has aged me. I’ve already caught sight of myself in the mirror a few times and I do not see myself the same way I did before I saw the film. I used to see my younger self. Now I just look old.

As for Oscars, there’s definitely a possibility if not a win for Hair & Makeup.

If the narrative were more restrained, I would’ve thought Best Actress and Best Original Screenplay might’ve been possibilities. For those who remember Demi from the ‘90s and the Vanity Fair cover when she was pregnant, there is something so powerful about watching her assess herself nude in the mirror and it really made me think that there’d always been a kind of intelligence and daring in her work that led up to this moment. Unfortunately, that’s kind of squelched out by the film’s end but it certainly felt like there could be a viable awards narrative there. But no more.

I do think the LAFC will give her Best Actress though. She might get a GG nomination as well. She is the film. Without her participation, the film wouldn’t have any substance at all. She’s as good as Goldblum was in The Fly, in terms of asserting and maintaining a personality under all those prosthetics and stuff. But probably not an Oscar nom, certainly not after the way MUBI has fucked up the release.

I enjoyed Glenn’s cameo in the third act - maybe she’ll finally get her Oscar?

The more I read on DL about this movie, the less I want to see it.

Besides, I hate her plastic surgery. If I hadn't read/heard that was Demi Moore, I wouldn't have believed it.

Maybe she has a double...

One of the best movies of the year—it builds and builds to a wild climax. Definitely see it in a theater if you can.

If you’re uncertain, R82, I would avoid it. It would just be a grating experience for you.

There’s a lot to appreciate about it but if what you’ve heard makes you want to know less, it’s probably not for you.

Saw it over the weekend and LOVED it. All three main actors gave bravura performances. Demi straddled the line of drama and comedy so impressively, Margaret was radiantly bitchy and Quaid was disgustingly over the top (in a good way). A+ rating for sure. I really want to check out Fargeat’s “Revenge” now.

Is this a film it’s okay to bring my 8- year-old daughter to?

No..

Of course r86!

I liked this film much better when it was funny and called [italic]Death Becomes Her.[/italic]

If you want to scar your 8 year old for life, take her!

Her sunken in cheeks work doesn't become her.

Plastics.

[quote]r91 Her sunken in cheeks work doesn't become her.

Dr. Gary would like a word.

My favorite film of 2024 so far. I left the theater walking to my car giddy and laughing to myself. What a wild ride

I saw this movie this past Sunday . My first impression is this was a modern rendering of the plot line of Wasp Woman starring Susan Cabot. The old story line vanity/narcissism=death. It turned out to be much more intense and much more psychological. Demi was cast perfectly for this movie. It's been a while since a plot line has kept my attention throughout an entire 2 hour movie. Plotline spoke to fear of aging, misogyny in the Hollywood culture. I highly recommend this movie. However if you are squeamish just be warned the last 30 minutes of the film are rather intense from a "gore "perspective. She deserves an Oscar for her portrayal.

A lot of people, in other places, seem to automatically overlook the fact that in the film, Elisabeth Sparkle is turned onto “the substance” by a man. And though it isn’t specified, that young man looks very much like an Eastern European special the likes of which Kevin Spacey could never resist and is sort of coded as gay (he’s definitely wearing make up). Elisabeth meets his primary being, possibly an elder gay man, later in a cafe.

Dennis Quaid, who IRL is 70 and on screen, arguably looks about 70, but even if we give him the benefit of the doubt and say, like Moore (and a lot of actors), he’s playing 10 years younger and his character is 60, we never hear him voice concern about age at all.

So it could be read that there’s an entire gay male culture that is also taking the substance - and that is certainly a film I’d like to see.

I mention it because, while there’s a lot of discourse about external forces being the cause of the characters insecurities and extreme anxieties about age and beauty, Fargeat seems to be saying that, at their core, these myths become self-perpetuating, I guess like any internalised phobia or hate. You don’t have to look very far on this board (how tall can a bottom be?) to see that gay men, like Elisabeth in the film, perpetuate their own insecurities and self-hatred.

It’s such an incisive little inclusion in the film to meet that old man and having already encountered his pretty boy toy DNA double, to imagine what his life once was. I would imagine the middle of his life was very rough.

[quote] I don't know whether Demi Moore will get an Oscar nomination, but whoever that actress is starring in The Substance might have a shot.

That’s Demi Moore, hon.

Who plays that dishy doctor/nurse that gets her hooked on ‘the substance’?

A little known actor named Robin Greer. Made up to be very pretty in the movie.

R25, are there worms, maggots, or other wriggly writh-y things in it?

If not, I'll watch when it comes to one of my streamers.

[quote][R25], are there worms, maggots, or other wriggly writh-y things in it?

No, r100...much worse.

Mmmmmm, I'm gon' say that ain't possible, R101.

The Documenting Reality website doesn't even faze me, but anything vermiform activates something truly atavistic in me that decades of therapy have never been able touch.

Doesn't it always come back to...

R100, it’s like The Fly and The Thing, drenched in blood.

Did the hot doctor at the hospital who turned her onto “the substance” have AIDS? Or was that purplish mark on his hand supposed to be a birthmark. I thought it looked like KS. I think that character was definitely supposed to be gay (including the elder-queen version of him Elizabeth encountering the diner).

R105, Demi’s character has the same mark.

R106, not exactly. Elizabeth had a grouping of three brown moles that Sue also had (albeit on a different part of her body). The gay doctor/elderqueen had a purplish birthmark (or Kapoai sarcoma?) on his hand.

OMG. Give Demi Moore an Oscar!

They'll have to nominate her, r108, but will she win?I don't think I've seen an actress so fearless in a role...maybe Bette in Baby Jane. I watched this and it looks a bit...boring...sorry Angelina.

R46 JJL has only been Oscar nominated once.

This is easily the best movie I've seen this year. I think some people felt it went too far in the last act, but I applaud the gall the writer/director had. Everybody here went all in and committed to everything. While there's commentary on female beauty standards for sure, the base of the story is universally human. It is a story about self-loathing and how we pay the price for hating and abusing ourselves. Anyone can relate to this. I too found it strangely moving.

Yes, r111, how we kick ourselves...and kick and kick...

It’s been 5 days since I’ve seen it and I feel like I might go again this weekend. It really stays with you.

I was concerned that the final 20 minutes kind of eclipses the rest of it but I’m still thinking about the whole thing. The ending might be even more funny the 2nd time around because it really is unhinged. It would’ve been funny if the Monstro waded out into the studio audience and tried to kiss Dennis Quaid. lol

Your reviews here have given me a 756 inch movie boner!!!!

Shit- I KNEW that this was THE film of 2024...

I’m definitely going to see it again tomorrow.

I’m seeing it tomorrow

Just saw it again. It's an amazing movie. Other people in the theater were very vocal in their reactions to the last fifteen minutes. It's a wild ride. Not to be a spoiler, but I felt such pathos for the "third version" of the character toward the end.

[quote]but I felt such pathos for the "third version" of the character toward the end.

I think you're supposed to, r117. After all, she didn't ask to be "born".

^Exactly.

It's too disturbing to be enjoyed

It's being called a Body Horror film. No thanks.

That description is accurate. It ain't a feel good experience

It takes you on a roller coaster of disgust, anxiety, fear, laughter and pathos.

I loved it but it was a lot more gory than I expected. I’d say it was gorier than Terrifier 2 but there was a point to it.

Demi Moore Is Done With the Male Gaze

I want Elizabeth Spankle’s apartment. It’s a cross between the 70s and the future.

I can’t wait to buy this film. I hope he doesn’t take long to at least come to streaming. I wonder if Demi will become a future scream queen. She had a tv series coming up. Her photoshoot for Interview magazine is wild.

I wanted to do this, but Gary talked me out of it.

The New York Times articles now have moving images for the top image. Same as for the interview with Natasha Lyonne.

[quote]I loved it but it was a lot more gory than I expected. I’d say it was gorier than Terrifier 2 but there was a point to it.

Yes, r124, but will the Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences see it that way?

[quote]I wonder if Demi will become a future scream queen

I hope she has more varied opportunities, r127. I'd like to think that this film transcends the genre. Actresses of this age deserve better than the actresses of yore got. Hags!

[QUOTE]Demi Moore Is Done With the Male Gaze

I read her Guardian interview and I understand the point of the film. But is the headline subtly out her, too?

^outing

I could see Demi being a big ol lez. She has always had dykey truck driver energy.

Demi is a hardscrabbke girl. They all have butch energy.

Hardscrabble

It’s not credible that Moore is done with the male gaze while she’s had lots of visible surgery on her face, is acting even now in a movie in which she’s naked or barely clothed a lot of the time, is pictured in a revealing leotard, and is obsessing about how her butt looks. Why didn’t she instead do a movie that has nothing to do with her body or looks, but is about something substantive instead?

Contrast - Frances McDormand has made (and is still making) a brilliant career in roles that don’t pander an ounce to looks or sexiness. One can’t take one’s eyes off McDormand, she’s such a compelling actor, and one can’t forget her movies or her roles. In my opinion, McDormand is the true role model for women in film.

British TV & film feature women and men of all ages, types of looks and bodies and builds, and races. We see their wrinkles, crooked teeth and love handles. This is also true of TV/cinema in several European countries. It’s actually a relief to watch normal-looking people so we can focus on the story and the acting.

Genius alert at R137

[quote]but is about something substantive instead?

You haven't seen The Substance, have you, r137?

Massive eyeroll at R137. And we can all tell you haven’t actually seen The Substance.

The whole post is actually giving FRAU also.

It totally deserves Oscar noms for Demi, screenplay and the special effects.

At Goldderby, despite the film having very weak notices from that festival- they all have Amy Adams in the Top 5 for Nightbitch- I do not see this happening once the film releases--- Demi was only in 2 lists the other day, and is now in 4 or so-- They have around 16 critics over there. I hope that she makes it, as well as Pam Andersen- if that film releases in time

Pamela Anderson is not going to be nominated for an Oscar. While the film is an obvious departure for her and the “Oscar hopeful” line helps with promotion, the real word out of Toronto was the film looks cheap and the script really wasn’t very good. There’s probably an audience for it but it’s not really an awards worthy film.

Sounds like this Mikey Madison chick i. a real frontrunner for Anora-

Jennifer Connelly could have played this lead too. I really wish she would be utilised better since her Oscar win ages ago.

This is Demi’s version of Seconds - the old Rock Hudson movie

It was shot in France and a film reviewer I listen to regularly noted that the stalls in the bathroom were French because the doors went all the way down to the floor, which isn't a thing in the US.

Demi said in an interview that she's often mistaken for either Jennifer Connelly or Courtney Cox.

It's amazing how they got France to look like LA. The scenes of Demi and Margaret walking along the sun-soaked, palm tree-lines streets look just like LA.

*lined streets.

The stitches around/under her areola look hideous. However ... they are better than others I have seen before. The amount of money she has spent on cosmetic surgeries has to be nothing less than shocking. What an ego, WOW.

Ray Liotta was supposed to be in this but he, like, died.

Ray would have been equally amazing in the role. He was the type of actor who was born to play sleazebags. Plus, the amount of work he had done to his own face would have ironically lent itself to the film and the part.

Someone I know saw the movie and hated it. She said the whole movie made her feel anxious and nauseated that another human would present a view on an obviously mentally ill individual as some kind of normal way of being.

R154 that’s what films should do. Provoke feeling and thought.

It’s not presented as a normal way of being. Elisabeth Sparkle is simply a deeply insecure woman who is willing to go to extreme lengths to be young and “beautiful” again.

I hate to tell you this but It is pure shit and will be forgotten by next Friday.

[quote]I hate to tell you this but It is pure shit and will be forgotten by next Friday.

I hate to tell you this, r157, but...no.

[quote]made her feel anxious and nauseated that another human would present a view on an obviously mentally ill individual as some kind of normal way of being.

I don't know what she saw, r154, but it wasn't The Substance.

I got the impression Sparkle was seduced in a moment of weakness by a predatory type who saw her break down crying in the Dr's examination room. Elizabeth resisted then got drunk (alone) on her birthday. Drunk, lonely and depressed on her birthday, she called the dealer.

The Substance cost Elizabeth and ultimately her surrogate a lot. But the price is never discussed.

EliSabeth!!!!

I love how present-day Elisabeth keeps checking for the 7 days as herself to be over so younger her can go have fun. It’s so tragic.

I wonder if Demi had concerns about the thematic overlap with “Death Becomes Her” considering Bruce was in DBH.

[quote]R152 Ray Liotta was supposed to be in this but he, like, died.

Untrue.

Gary talked him out of it.

This doesn’t normalise insecurity at all.

The sequence I keep returning to is when she’s getting ready for her date. I think it hits so hard because it’s that moment in the film where you feel like, this could be me. And also, it’s shocking, how low her self-esteem is - but given the comparison she’s now making to her younger, synthetic self, completely understandable.

The entire texture of the film is so rich with meaning and implication.

It’s so sad when ElisaSue Monstro says “It’s me! It’s Elisabeth! It’s Sue!” Naturally, we’re appalled as viewers because of the way it looks, but the whole thing is just so tragic.

It says I AM NOT A MONSTER, just like the Elephant Man

I’m reminded of the Proust quote, “Let us leave pretty women to men with no imagination." This explains my lifelong hot crush on Salome Jens.

I love the look of this.

It should be said that Elisabeth isn’t a victim, not someone you root for. She’s a victim of her own narcissism and lack of self-worth. A lot of films would keep beating the drum about the dreaded man or patriarchy making her feel shame but in the end it’s clear that it’s her. She values nothing but her looks. She has no family and no friends. It was all about her job and her ego. Unfortunately that’s how most people are living their lives today.

[quote]Nothing about this film is like The Shining.

Long-ass blood-red hallway with graphic carpet? Like, hellloooo.

Big nod to "Carrie" as well.

The shadow on her face while on the phone is an homage to another film too.

What film?

Mary Poppins, Rose!

R172 that account is deliberately obtuse and contrarian

[quote] British TV & film feature women and men of all ages, types of looks and bodies and builds, and races. We see their wrinkles, crooked teeth and love handles.

That’s why I love Midsomer Murders.

I'm not going to root for Sparkle. I emphasize with her. She got herself in real trouble hating herself and using a substance to add meaning to her empty life.

[quote]r177 = I emphasize with her

What do the two of you emphasize?

Empathize. Cunt

We share in your emphasis, R179.

Where is the proof of this alleged lesbianing?

Moore's rumored partner, stylist Masha Mandzuka

Lezzies like bush, hence why Demi sports one now.

Bush hides canyon gash.

Reports are that people are throwing up and walking out of screenings!

Really? Is it that gory?

It’s maybe the goriest film I’ve ever seen. Gorier than Terrifier 2

R187-- are you fucking kidding me?? Gorier than Terrifier 2????? THE BEDROOM SCENE??

I thought it was

Well holy shit. I have not seen this film yet-

^See it!

I'm scared.

^Be brave.

[quote] are you fucking kidding me?? Gorier than Terrifier 2????? THE BEDROOM SCENE??

Oh, hell yes!

R32 BEAST!? How dare you!

Someone has triggered Eileen Davidson R195 and I don't know why or if she is even in the correct thread.

Sub.

Stance.

I'm thinking of going again (third time). It's that good.

My date wouldn’t let me drive him home after The Substance because we haven’t been seeing each other long enough for him to throw up in front of me. He literally just walked home in the rain to vomit with dignity.

Some of you guys are too squeamish. It's just a movie.

R198 is killing me. This film is so good that this bitch keeps going back for more!!!

(I was in love with this film when I saw the trailer) I am planning to watch at Christmastime to get me in the spirit! :)

I was once in a band called “Vomit with Dignity.”

Hold my hair, r202.

If people walked out of our screening as far as I’m concerned we don’t have enough movies where that might happen.

I don't know if I can wait. Terrifier 3 and The Substance are my "Wait until Christmas" films- I do this every year. And my binge series I have never seen will be The Bear- Babygirl looks like a great Christmas film too-

Strange Darling is my Thanksgiving film. (This one sounds amazing)

And I am watching Longlegs for Halloween-

Fargeat always knew her movie would end with a monster — a “Picasso of male expectations,” as she calls it. The rejection that motivates Elisabeth to consume the Substance also fosters Sue’s addiction to remaining young, which is why Sue defies the mandate to switch bodies with Elisabeth every seven days. Elisasue is the product of minds and bodies stalked by external valuations.

Like many great movie monsters, Elisasue wants only to be loved. Fargeat drew inspiration from The Elephant Man, David Lynch’s 1980 tragedy about a deformed 19th-century Englishman who is treated as a freak-show spectacle until a sympathetic doctor takes him in. “He’s monstrous, but you want to hug him,” Fargeat says, and the same applies to Elisasue.

Fargeat made mood boards featuring stills from Lynch’s movie as well as various human-animal sculptures she found online and the work of Colombian artist Fernando Botero, whose sculptures often feature women with exaggerated proportions. In her eyes, Elisasue is to The Substance what Quasimodo is to Victor Hugo’s The Hunchback of Notre-Dame

This thing is probably the biggest pile of shit I've ever seen. I honestly don't remember ever seeing a worse movie. It's at least in the top 3. I would call it a style over substance except the style was beyond terrible too. The whole extreme close-ups, plastic fake look, loud sound effects was already done a million times and million times better. And it dragged on and on. This should have been an hour and 45 minutes movie tops. Can't imagine someone filming this crap, thinking they did something clever, original, shocking or provocative. At least not someone over the age of 15.

The queens at awards watch want the Spanish tranny to win best actress

R58 He played a cartoon villain. And not an original one. The one that we have already seen hundreds times before.

R207, a party of one.

I hated the last 20 minutes - the director tried waaay too hard to shock the audience with the whole monster sequence. I wasn't even grossed out by it because it felt so cartoonish.

When Margaret Qualley started spitting out teeth I thought the movie would end with her body falling apart live onstage and I'd much prefer to see an ending like that one.

OTT for sure but I was intrigued and interested with this film.

She needs to stop with the plastic surgery. But good luck to her.

R211 I kind of agree. I thought the scene with the blood in the studio was preposterous and tedious. The ending you thought would happen was kind of what I was suspecting too, but we just have to get the “big Hollywood effects ending.”

However, all that said, I did like the final scene, at her star. I thought it was a funny coda.

R154 Yes, we all live in glass condos overlooking our billboards in Beverly Hills, that's a totally normal way of being. We all have made millions off our looks and bodies over the years and now are willing to give away half of our lives and sleep for 26 weeks a year. Totally normal way of being. Your friend is not smart and perhaps a shallow person herself? No one fucking thinks this is a normal way of being, it's why it's such balls out movie.

It was gory but not in a torture porn way and not in a way to make anyone puke, for fuck's sake. Or actually, I did almost puke at the beginning with the close up of Quaid eating shrimp, that was fucking gross and so is shrimp. It was more making me look away at her getting that shit injected into her scabby spine. The last scene wasn't gross, it was ridiculous. The fight scene though...damn, I haven't seen a beatdown like that, and been so uncomfortable with a movie beating since Gandolfini fucked Patricia Arquette's shit up in "True Romance". My boyfriend put this in our shared file on my laptop so I literally watched it on my lap, if I had been further away, it may not have made me so squeamish.

R205 He also put "Longlegs", "Strange Darling", and "Maxxxine" on it. I watched "Longlegs" so far, meh. A little too Cage-y for me, and kind of ridiculous, it defies belief, but I digress. I've heard really good things about "Strange Darling" though, I really look forward to it. I was a Kyle Gallner non fan until "Dinner in America" which is an overlooked but great little film. If you like Gallner, you should watch it now, you don't have to wait for a holiday.

I love you, R207!!!

I made it though half the movie. Boring!! And so fake looking! And if I'm going to watch Margaret Qualley naked (or not), there sure are a lot better contexts within which to do it.

And it was sooooooooooo streeeeeetched out!! This could/should have been 1/2 hour on YouTube.

It's a pity none of you read. I cut my teeth on science fiction stories (some of which pretty much came true). The 40s and the 50s (and I guess the 60s as well) were full of quite prolific sci-fi writers with uncanny imaginations. And as far as I'm concerned, my head creates a better movie while I'm reading than I could ever see on the big screen --especially now.

Crack a book sometime. I've attached a short story from the 1940s (scroll down at link) for your enjoyment. And remember, the original Twilight Zone was for the most part written by those same sci-fi writers. That's why it was/is still so good.

I heard from a lot of friends. The movie starts out really good then gets ridiculous.

Why don’t you watch it for yourself and then form your own opinion, R218?

But R218 is right. Though you should still watch it!

It’s currently at $66.5 mill box office on a $17.5 mill budget and got rave reviews. Critical and commercial success may equal Oscar gold for Demi.

Demi Moore is fantastic in this and it's far and away her best performance. The scene where is she is getting ready for her date was so perfectly done and Moore didn't say a single word the entire scene but you knew exactly what Elisabeth was thinking.

I too felt the film should have ended with Sue's body falling apart on stage...

R221 meaning the majority of the human race has no taste whatsoever

r223- Karla Sofia Gascon

I liked it. But I feel like it could have been better. It’s a great idea for a movie. Maybe it’s focused on body horror and I was looking for more of a psychological thriller. .

R215 = Demi's slightly-tipsy publicist who REALLY needs this film to do well critically and at the box office for personal financial reasons who'll be damned if he'll allow an armchair critic's message-board comment trying to ruin everything sit there uncontested.

R223 is a vulgarian.

R154, your “friend” sounds retarded.

Your friend is correct, this ain't a feel good experience. It is ugly in most ways.

R228 She really does. It's like she's never seen psychological horror or any type or documentary. I guess she likes movies about happy and normal people, i.e chick flicks.

[quote]Jennifer Jason Leigh has been nominated for two Oscars.

Just the one, R46.

I have seen The Substance four times and it gets better each time. My favorite movie of the year. Demi deserves a nomination for this (and I would vote for her to win if I was in the Academy).

Hi Substance troll

R233

I liked it, but it’s basically a very long Twilight episode. I won’t be surprised if Demi is nominated or if it’s completely forgotten about after Critics Choice. It’s not for everyone.

The last half hour was a mess.

R222, I agree. I think if Demi gets any traction this awards season it will be for the scenes where she is getting ready for the date.

[QUOTE]The last half hour was a mess

Yes, completely by design. I’m surprised people don’t understand why the movie had to go there at the end. It fully committed to its own rules.

It’s crazy how you see Demi now at an opening of an envelope. Every time I see her, her face is different.

I’m afraid I don’t understand why it had to have such an over the top climax R237.

I did love the ending with her star on the walk of fame though. It started there and it ended there. Perfect bookends.

[quote]I’m afraid I don’t understand why it had to have such an over the top climax [R237].

Think Day of the Locust.

Congrats to Demi on her Gotham and independent Spirit nominations! She’ll get a Globe nod next week.

Yes, I have no doubt the GG’s will nominate her. I’m a different year or if they could get away with labeling the movie as a comedy she would win there.

I’ve been looking at Oscar predictions this morning and I was surprised by how many don’t have her in their top 5.

Really smart conversation between Guillermo del Toro and the film's director.

I'd vote for her and the director.

Demi has not missed any of the critics awards so far, if I’m counting correctly. She has either been nominated in a slate of five or appeared as a runner-up everywhere except for the Boston Film Critics.

Critical darlings can always fall off by the wayside (I’m thinking Sally Hawkins in “Happy-Go-Lucky”) but this bodes well for her chances for her first Oscar nomination.

I’d vote for this for Best Picture.

I’ve seen a lot of the films in contention and there’s a lot of shit.

Pundits keep talking this down by saying it a horror film. They’re wrong. It’s a STATEMENT film. If voters just see it they won’t be able to get it out of their heads.

It should get like 6 or 7 nominations. Get with it, Academy. You don’t need to nominate shit like Conclave and Sing Sing for everything.

Five Golden Globe nominations!

Would the haters care to explain that?

R247 Masses love shit. Not that hard to explain

Well it got 5 GG nominations including one for Margaret Qualley so we live in hope.

Good to see Demi and Coraline get CC nods! I liked that film.

And Margaret, R250!

r250 Yes! They played that so well together.

The filmmakers should be lauded for their brave statement that people should be nicer to women.

Dennis Quaid gave one of the worst performances I’ve ever seen, although I’m sure he was directed that way.

who’s that guy that showed that hairy ass? i had to hit pause in order to fully contemplate that beauty

R255, you should see Fargeat’s first feature, Revenge.

[quote]who’s that guy that showed that hairy ass?

Hugo Diego Garcia, a French and Spanish actor/director of Italian descent. SO hot in that brief scene.