Nick Kristoff -Here’s Why We Shouldn’t Demean Trump Voters

Does the gift link work here?

[quote]Here’s Why We Shouldn’t Demean Trump Voters

. . . because they are doing such a great job of it on their own.

While I get his point, it's become so hard not to think of anyone voting for Dump to be a deluded idiot. A deplorable.

I think his premise that liberals can “win over” Trump voters is misguided. They are lost until they snap out of it. If they ever do.

Seems only fair, since they are so thoughtful and considerate towards us.

Yes, r4, that's truly the problem. They are not willing to listen. They only believe what Fox tells them.

Here's why we shouldn't demean Nazis...

Right - so basically again - liberals have to take the high road. While Trump people make up lies, don't trust or read factual information, and try to intimidate others.

Be nice to the bullies. Fucking bullshit.

There are obviously a lot of non-MAGA types who are still voting for Trump as the polls show. But fuck that.

They deserve to be looked down upon - treasonous traitors who would seriously put us in concentration camps. What the fuck is he smoking?

Trump gets a lot of high income voters too.

NYT Op-ed: "We wanted to hear the real concerns of average Trump voters. That's why we went to a Klan gathering in rural Ohio. Every Sunday, it was going to church, then to a diner to have some apple pie, and then cross burnings. Now, the woke mob wants to take away all that."

Given what motivates a lot of them is hostility towards educated elites, animosity toward Jews and LGBT people, I’m not sure why I should feel compassion more than animosity.

Does the gift link I posted get around the paywall?

Fuck him and fuck respecting traitors.

More "be nice to MAGA" bullshit clickbait from the NYT. They can go fuck their feelings. Anyone STILL supporting Trump deserves our scorn and ridicule. It's a shame Covid didn't kill more of them.

Half of the country doesn’t side with Dump, half the people who actually vote do. And no, there’s no need to be nice to assholes calling you libtards and groomers. Fuck em. Ain’t gonna win em over, don’t want to.

One of my mom's friends voted for Trump, she's old, she doesn't watch Fox, she's one of the nicest people ever. It makes no sense, but you can't stereotype all these people or put them all in one basket.

R3, the "deplorable" label used against Trump supporters was a very well-developed marketing ploy aimed at presenting Democrats as morally superior to the masses of dispossessed people who are mistakenly believing that the cult of personality that Trump has successfully built around his public image, is a real challenge to the corporate elites that govern us. In reality, Donald Trump is part of these elites and most of his policies were aimed at increasing the scope of both their power and privileges. Furthermore, how can we believe Democrats who, for all their bombastic proclamations of social justice and sense of morality, have behaved in exactly the same way as every other corporate Republican neocon?

Finally, there are many members of minorities who support Donald Trump, with black, South Asian and Latin voters shifting their allegiance toward Trumpian Republicanism en masse, to the detriment of the arrogant Democrats, who refuse to acknowledge that they have constantly betrayed their electoral base and pedantically deem anyone who doesn't support them as intellectually deficient, bigoted and immoral. How are Latin, South Asian and black people hillbillies who hate minorities? Are we to believe that they lack agency and are easily manipulated into voting against their interests, as if they were children? Isn't this idea in itself extremely racist, not to mention condescending?

The truth is that there are millions of people whose lives are being destroyed by neoliberal economic policies and neoconservative geopolitical games, and they are desperately clinging to whatever little hope they can find. It's downright scandalous that those among us who are not that far from them in terms of economic opportunity would be disparaging them, when we can easily fall a few rungs in the social scale and end up in their position. As for the multi-millionaires and billionaires who "support" Democrats (while also making donation to Republicans, of course) talk about civic duty and moral integrity, attacking trade unions, evading tax and creating a neo-feudal system while presenting themselves as victims of various forms of discrimination, all I can say is that they are the only deplorable people I see in this entire situation.

We're being deliberately driven away from each other through a propagandistic onslaught that has been carefully designed to create groupuscules within the working class, so we won't see each other as equals and members of an oppressed class that is being bled dry so elites can increase the scope of their power as the America-led West dies. We're being convinced that participating in our own slaughter, makes us superior to those whose beliefs oppose ours, when in reality the uppermost strata of society have no other ideology than maintaining their position at any cost, and that cost is our very existence.

It's beyond tragic, if you ask me.

He's a garbage candidate for garbage people. Apparently the Nazis in Germany were super nice too.

r16 's friends mom has probably voted Republican all her life out of habit. She's one of the millions of low-information voters, who doesn't pay any attention to the news and just goes about living her life.

I stereotype every bullshit trolls like you serve us, R16. You were blocked a long time ago for being a MAGA shill. Try to improve your material in the future.

I'm frustrated with myself. Normally I'm a forgiving, open minded person. Not this election cycle. I can't help but judge people supporting Trump. Before we only thought we knew what a rotten president he'd be. NOW WE KNOW. Those voting for him are fools. And I don't need more fools in my life.

I'm not MAGA, shit-for-brains. I'm a Socialist, or a Democratic Socialist. I have never voted Republican in my entire life.

Trump derangement syndrome has eaten your brain. Donald Trump lives rent-free in your head.

Trump won't be around forever. Trump is temporary. Maybe you need to find an actual political philosophy.

Kristoff is a typical Liberal. I'm to the left of Kristoff. But he has a point, that he arrived at about 5 years later than the usual people whose opinions I respect. We need class solidarity in this country. What are workers? Some are Trumpers, some are never-Trump Republicans, some are Democrats, Socialists, Communists. If they could come together to organize, they could get somewhere in this society. But it's in the best interests of the elites to keep us divided. With us divided, they continue to keep their position over us.

The story about my mom's friend is true. You must honestly be stupid if you think everyone who votes for Trump is some stereotypical clone, a 45 year old guy and his wife from Ohio in a hard hat.

^That was for R20.

F U C K. T H A T!

It’s the other way around this time, and everyone knows it! Billionaire oligarchs and Yale/Wharton Elites talking down to and snickering at the Coach Walz’s of the world.

Everyman Middle America Friday Night Lights is going on to defeat the decadent scamming Start-up get rich quick off the backs of hard working Americans 🇺🇸

What is this HATE THE VOTE, LOVE THE VOTER horseshit??

R4 R9 There are a bunch of problems with the Kristoff article. First, his assumption there is ONE us and ONE them is false on the face of it. I am tired of the identity many in media construct with the "two tribes" ... first, that "working class" means white. I remember a 2016 analysis of Trump v. Clinton voters. The average income of Trump voters was higher than the average annual income of Clinton voters. "Oh those poor working class whites that feel the elite ignoring and making fun of them..." As though people of color were never working class.

Mar-a-Lago is full of very wealthy folk who are angry with grievance at the "elite"... as they arrive in their private jets and band new Cadillac Escalades (and thousand dollar hair dye jobs etc.). And these folk are never going to be "persuaded" by a kinder, gentler, more empathetic outreach to them.

There are, make no mistake about it, white working class voters who feel left out, angry about black and latino folks succeeded when they feel caught and poor and depressed. These Trump voters also won't respond to an effort to "understand" their plight... if that understanding is expressed by anyone among "the Enemy"... Fox, and rightwing radio, and their pastors have convinced them that nothing "the Enemy" does can change the world for them. I remember a real quote from a voter in South Carolina when there was a lot of conversation about repealing the Affordable Care Act... about the government's role in Health Care. "The goddamn government needs to keep its hands off my Medicare."

But still, Harris (or whoever a Dem leader is) needs to do the best they can for all Americans. The rich, the international corporations, the bandit Tech billionaires... are availing themselves of what a rigged economic system can offer them. That needs to change, and for one I think unions and collective bargaining is the strongest instrument to make a more equitable system. I think government MUST help unions strengthen. If successful I think and hope the MAGA voters' children may revise who they think the enemy is.

The gift link worked for me.

What an odd graphic to accompany the article. Very androgynous.

[quote] The average income of Trump voters was higher than the average annual income of Clinton voters.

I wonder how that would play out if you subtracted the very rich, most of whom vote Republican to cut taxes.

The median is probably much lower than the mean.

R29 Exactly my point... Kristoff talks about "Trump voters"... there a hundred different classifications as to who they are. Just as it's false to depict Harris voters as "Ivy league professionals living in wealthy suburbs or expensive urban environments"

The Democrats have messed up and are now reaping what they've sown.

Michelle Obama saying her parents distrusted rich people. Meanwhile, she has three homes, one on Martha's Vineyard.

Oprah running her mouth about income inequality. Meanwhile, she is an American success story.

The Democrats should have learned from Hillary that common folk DO NOT want to hear from celebrities. Celebrities are out of touch and not feeling the pinch at the grocery store or the gas pump. The Democrats have lost their way.

You should always let the people who call you a demon and threaten to kill you, have the benefit of the doubt!

Why, they might see the light and become your best friend.

Wouldn't you rather say you'd been "kinder than you felt like being" to the folks who will be loading you onto those boxcars, Liberals?

R31 Biden walking on a UAW picket line. Their Union President speaking at that same convention calling Trump a scab.

Or in summary: shut the fuck up.

And how are those policies of reducing government oversight working for some?

David Brooks did it first, Nick. In fact, he built a whole career on garbage like this. You're a bargain basement version.

[quote]Their Union President speaking

Those union leaders make huge salaries off the backs of the worker's dues.

I didn’t care for harpo being at the convention., Washington either, for that matter.

All I saw were current politicians who care about democracy.

It’s not our fault the politicians are well known when many people see them on Twitter, Instagram, etc.

R36 Research the proportion of CEO pay vs average worker in the company, and how the difference has exponentially increased in the last 40 years. Compare that to the difference between union leadership salary and average union maker salary.... it's virtually unchanged in 40 years.

But yeah, you make the union officer the villain and the CEO is (per your values, likely) the beloved "job creator"

r38, I said nothing about CEOs. But as modern Democrats do, you just throw a bunch of shit at the wall to see what sticks.

Trump voters are the enemy!

R39 You are scrambling. Nay, you are scrambled.

[quote] I said nothing about CEOs

Of course not. They are sacred beings, the Worthy Rich, who must never be questioned and mentioned only in a quiet and reverential whisper.

For they are the Magical Job Creators, to be offered tax cuts as a kind of prayer.

They are also disruptors!

Is Kristoff taking into account that Trump voters are basically a cult? I’m not exaggerating by asking that.

Everyone who voted for Trump in 2020 and who has voted Republican since 2016 deserves to be demeaned.

Ground into powder.

Time for reunion once this attempt to destroy the nation is taken care of. You don't get points for following the American Fascist Party.

MAGA is still pissed over losing the Civil War. We beat your racist asses then and we're going to do it again in November. This time we will be putting your criminal leader behind bars. And then you can slink back to your trailer down in the holler, having a conjugal with your sister-wives.

R31, isn't that a little pat? Michelle Obama's parents were very middle class. Her dad was blue collar. Oprah grew up without money. I can relate to both of them in that regard. My parents were rich. They worked hard. They set me up to have more than they did, and I do. Gratefully. That didn't erase how I grew up. My story to own. Their stories to own. Not yours. Cynicism hurts the cynic before it hurts anyone else.

[quote] [T]he liberal impulse has been to demonize anyone at all sympathetic to Donald Trump as a racist and bigot.

I don't quite understand why it is wrong to demonize racists and bigots.

The New York Times should now be considered in the same light as the New York Post. Cancel your subscription and let them know why.

[quote] Finally, there are many members of minorities who support Donald Trump, with black, South Asian and Latin voters shifting their allegiance toward Trumpian Republicanism en masse, to the detriment of the arrogant Democrats, who refuse to acknowledge that they have constantly betrayed their electoral base and pedantically deem anyone who doesn't support them as intellectually deficient, bigoted and immoral.

Regarding Black voters, "many" is a gross overstatement. Considering who Trump has always shown himself to be and the fact he is overwhelmingly favored by racists, it is astonishing that he has "any" Black supporters.

[quote]MAGA is still pissed over losing the Civil War.

You're not very smart, are you? The Republican Party was formed because there was no party that opposed slavery. In the mid-1960s, several key laws (Civil Rights Act of 1964, Voting Rights Act of 1965) almost didn't pass because so many Democrats voted against it.

[quote] Finally, there are many members of minorities who support Donald Trump, with black, South Asian and Latin voters shifting their allegiance toward Trumpian Republicanism en masse, to the detriment of the arrogant Democrats, who refuse to acknowledge that they have constantly betrayed their electoral base and pedantically deem anyone who doesn't support them as intellectually deficient, bigoted and immoral.

Deliberate only to the extent that Trump's winning strategy has been to dehumanize and degrade Blacks, browns, LGBTQ and women. We cannot triumph over red-hot racism with an olive branch. Deplorables hate Black people just for living and breathing. They don't believe we deserve a place in the country that the forced labor of our ancestors built.

R51 hasn't gotten the news that starting with Barry Goldwater in the mid 60s, the Republican party—now the MAGA party—has absorbed the butthurt Lost Cause demographic, while Democrats have embraced civil rights.

And if there is one thing that is certain on God's green earth, Goody r51, it is that those Republicans are EXACTLY the same as the Republicans who currently infest the land, shrieking of their God Emperor Trump and his sacred plan to restore the White Man to His Blessed Inheritance!

I hadn't even thought about Nick Kristoff in years. He sounds like he's posting from 2017.

The NYT is Trump’s personal PR machine.

[quote] Michelle Obama saying her parents distrusted rich people. Meanwhile, she has three homes, one on Martha's Vineyard.

Her parents were poor and came of age in the 40s, 50s and 60s so they DID distrust rich (white) people, how could they not? She is ultra-rich by her own intellect, determination, efforts, labor and sacrifice. She deserves 10 homes all over the world for enduring the derision of miscreants who aren't even half of her.

[quote]She is ultra-rich by her own intellect, determination, efforts, labor and sacrifice.

And everybody else deserves to reach for that. But new Democrats like Kamala Harris will not allow the freedom to reach that level.

Yes, yes, yes, unless Elon Musk gets a huge and completely unneeded, barely wanted tax cut, why they might as well call this a Bolshevik State and start sending us all to the Gulag!

[quote]Regarding Black voters, "many" is a gross overstatement. Considering who Trump has always shown himself to be and the fact he is overwhelmingly favored by racists, it is astonishing that he has "any" Black supporters.

R50 As a Black man, I'm looking forward to the results of this presidential election with Harris winning an overwhelming majority of Black votes, so the whole "Blacks are significantly shifting towards Trump and the GOP" will be rendered the bullshit it has always been. Oh, and I do agree with it being astonishing that he has any Black supporters. The only Black people he and his supporters want around are those two or three "Blacks for Trump" sign holders appearing at his rallies.

R51 thinks that if Lincoln were alive in 2024, he would be a MAGA Republican. Oh my sides! 🤣🤣🤣

Learn some history WITH CONTEXT, fool.

Here's the thing - we've had NINE years to try to break through to these Trumpers. Millions of discussions around family holidays, dinners, etc.

NOTHING gets through. And they mistake our kindness for weakness and use it against us at any opportunity.

It is NOT a rational difference of an opinion - they are FUCKING CRAZY and believe all sorts of conspiracies. Let's not forget the 2020's version of gay panic in that we're all GROOMERS and nothing should be spoken or talked about gay people existing.

Nick can fuck off - I don't care if he lives in rural Oregon and has a special place in his heart. He's a white straight male with I'm presuming a decent financial portfolio.

Nothing is ever going to happen to him. Trump coming back into office won't really impact him that much. So stop lecturing us about how to act around people who would have us killed. And no - that's not hyperbole.

And then there are the Dump voters who don't like him but simply want to put black people, brown people, LGBTers and strong women out of their sight and mind forever.

It's really that simple why some idiots vote for Dump, who they feel will ultimately accomplish those goals.

Focus on limiting the influence of Dumpsters by winning elections, and otherwise ignore their bullshit. If they break the law, send their asses to jail. You aren't going to "reach" them or any other such nonsense. They aren't going away, so all you can do is contain and marginalize them.

Is he writing from 2016? Anyone who still thinks this way isn't really paying attention.

Are these the voters we shouldn’t demean?

The “Gays for Trump” guy in R66 is especially reasonable.

I think he probably posts here, gets his ass handed to him, and then comes back for more. Over and over again.

Agreed, R52. They are not perfect, but on the world stage, Harris and Biden have been modeling rationality, responsibility, good governance, and humanity for four years. Obama did the same for eight years (though I think less of him as a person, to be honest). The MAGA people had every opportunity to witness this as much as we did, and they always responded with conspiracies, ugliness, and crazy extremist ideology. Their minds are sealed shut. They can't be reached.

Were they publishing articles back in 1978 on how misunderstood Jim Jones' followers were?

[quote]And everybody else deserves to reach for that. But new Democrats like Kamala Harris will not allow the freedom to reach that level.

We all know who R58 will be backing in November, but your attempt to divide Democrats into factions isn't going to work. There's no such thing as a "New Democrat" and no proof that a Harris victory will stifle the freedom of opportunity in this country. Just cast your vote for the orange asshole and stop throwing bullshit at the wall hoping it will stick.

I meant R62 .

R58 is a long time troll. We know he'll vote for Trump. For the third time.

Well at least they're not voting for black face Kamela-wasn't she Indian until recently-and white bread Walz who is as substantial as Wonderbread.

I can't believe any individual with a modicum of intelligence can't see how evil both candidates are. This might just be the lowest point ever in American history for a presidential election. The creature from the black lagoon returns to terrorize us and a candidate so inept she decays right in front of your eyes. A total horror show. There is a reason climate change is speeding up. The earth just wants to get rid of us. It has had it. Even if it has to cook us to death.

Off to the F&F hell with you, "independent thinker" @R74. You'll always have Jill Stein.

Oh, what do you know? That was R74's singular post. Pretty basic trolling.

you know what I am not going to let anyone, including Obama or Clinton tell me how to treat the Neo fascist, racist White Christian nationalists who are dedicated to demeaning me. They waste no opportunity to offend. Gay, Immigrant, Jew, Muslim, women, etc. Their entire existence is based on sowing division and hatred. And now your telling me to, "be polite?" Fuck off.

Of course it’s the NYT. About a year ago I kept getting promos to subscribe to the Boston Globe for cheap. I signed up and then canceled when the free trial expired. I am about to cancel my NYT digital and go back to the BG. ENOUGH already. They are fucking Trump apologists at this point.

r74 is just asking questions. Questions like, How can I whore for Trump in the most effective way? What if I pretend I'm actually mad about both candidates? What if I'm the kind of cunt who thinks every single thing Trump says about his opponents is always the simple godly truth? What if I pretend to be a complete moron, would that help?

No, cunt, it will not help. Your attempt to pose as a complete moron is simply too convincing to help. You need a less stale act.

I’ve read kris for decades. He’s honestly losing touch with the world around him.

FOADIAGF.

Plenty more of these "Questions Of MAGAt Morons" on YouTube.

They are impervious to and scornful of facts and truth. They say such twaddle as (statements I've heard on various videos):

"He never lies."

"He loves America."

"He's way, WAY greater than FDR."

"He's the real President. He's in charge. We have two militaries, and Trump has the good one."

"I don't care if he kills somebody." A variation was "I don't care if he smokes crack with Hunter Biden."

"I'm for law and order, and he's for law and order." When reminded of Trump's felony convictions, the same MAGAt said, "I'm not electing a saint."

"The Bible should be taught in all schools." When told there's a book with a story of how a man's two daughters got him drunk to have sex with him, the response was to "Ban this book! Those are the Devil's words!"

So ANYONE who suggests that THESE MENTAL FREAKS just need to be HEARD and UNDERSTOOD and WTHEVER, can, in the immortal words of Shady Vance, "Go to Hell!"

Trump starts each rally claiming evil Democrat scum stole the election from him. He calls Democrats thieving cheaters. Trumpers regularly accuse Democrats of fraud, voting twice, grooming, ect. They're presented with honest information and they flat out ignore it. Yet, don't "demean" them, invite them over to sing Kumbaya.

[quote] Are these the voters we shouldn’t demean?

LOL!!! That shrieking queen IS Datalounge!

Hey MAGAts, Jesus, whose words you have pledged to follow was a radical liberal, brown, anti-rich exploiter, friend of whores and the disabled. So, fuck you and your apologists. Were he on earth today, your real God would condemn you and your false god. You deserve to be demeaned for your hypocrisy and sin. How about reading the First Commandment? You know, the one you insist on posting in schools.

[quote]“I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me."

Again, Trump voters are not one thing. Trump has a coalition...

However, some left him after Jan 6. If someone is still a True Believer after Jan 6 they cannot be "reached" by "us"... whoever "us" is.

I have MAGA in my extended family. Some of them are sweet folk, some are pretty much lost in the wilderness. I love them. I would never try to change their politics, at this point. I will vote, work, contribute, pray, light candles.... for a Harris win. A Harris administration will make life better for all these MAGA folk. That's a good thing.

Read the room, Nick.

The New York Times walked so r74 could run at the speed of light.

R61 Anytime someone like r51 posts shit like that, all you have to do is school them. Democrats were the more popular party in the 60s, even more popular than repubs in the aughts. Them backwater crackers voted for they mafuckin interests just as long as blacks had to sit in the back of bus and black men could be hung hollering at white women. Johnson passed the Civil Rights legislation, all that shit changed. And no it wasn’t democrats who almost ruined the bill. It was southern democrats. All the northern democrats were on board. There were more democrats in Congress at the time. Regular working class white people never voted Republican until they stankin asses decided to cut off their nose to spite their face. Repubs been bamboozling them since 1964.

Yes it does thank you R12.

Southern democrats, with some exceptions, were basically the Magas of the 60s. They just didn’t hate taxes.

True, as one anlyst well said: the fake left and liberal option was hijacked by the elites instrumentalizing minorities, both ethnic and sexual, against working class.

R11 Jews? The modern days anti semitism comes ftom the left.

They deserve nothing but scorn, sorry.

I will be the first to welcome people back from the cult since many of them are in my family but the delusions about trump do not merit empathy when I've been repeatedly attacked by them since 2015. If they all off themselves with a Jonestown moment, so be it. Leave me out of it.

They are in a hateful, nasty cult . Mock and ridicule is the only proper response

[quote] I'm not MAGA, shit-for-brains. I'm a Socialist, or a Democratic Socialist.

You’re a Socialist, shit-for-brains. They love dictators.

Fuck Trump voters and their feelings!

I, for one, plan to make them feel like shit after their Diaper Lord loses in November!

They aren’t all hillbillies. But the ones who aren’t vote for him are working through some childhood trauma.

[quote] Are we to believe that they lack agency and are easily manipulated into voting against their interests, as if they were children? Isn't this idea in itself extremely racist, not to mention condescending?

Yes. I am black so it goes without saying so is my mom. She is a diehard Trump supporter from the beginning. NOTHING he does will change her opinion of him. She is smart, has a JD, but she’s always considered herself an outsider, black sheep of the family. So she always subconsciously finds things that continue to alienate her. And Trump spoke right to that for her. She will literally cry over the man. It is a form of manipulation and very cult like. I’ve seen it get progressively worse, intense. So Trump supporters aren’t all hillbillies but a lot of them are damaged.

BTW, this is a woman who was part of Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow Coalition. So go figure.

R97, is your mom Condi Rice?

One should never, ever placate the supporters of fascism. Being demeaned is the least that they deserve.

The Trump voters who will get off easy are the ones who are going to die soon.

The younger ones? Not so much.

Such an elitist take.

“They’re poor and stupid and don’t know any better” is the textbook liberal mentality the writer is supposedly shaming.

R98 since when did Condi become a Trump supporter? Last time I checked, she released a long article bashing Trump isolationism. That was a week ago.

DUMP = DEATH

Here's what's wrong with that article, no mention of SHAME. A long time ago, that used to be something people actually felt when making a bad decision. Not MAGA, not even a concept they could ever think about. Nope, sorry, until I see some honest shame and regret I will not extend the olive branch.

It's like saying just let the guy who murdered all the school kids out because it just makes him want to do it more. Nope, he needs to be punished first then we will think about it.

There are a lot of well-educated and successful elites who are Trump voters. Why does the NYT assume the false premise set up 20 years ago by Republicans that all liberal are wealth and elitist? I know many working class Democrats and wealthy Trumpeters. In fact outside of a few places in this country, most wealthy are Trumpeters.

This is why ‘weird’ worked a much better than ‘basket of deplorables’.

The former attacks the leaders and their policies, the latter attacked the supporters. It’s also harder for those supporters to wear the term as a badge of honor. While plenty of counter cultural progressives would embrace ‘weird’, it was kryptonite to regressives.

Yep, he’s stuck in 2017. You don’t have to attack the voters to attack the candidates. Even if they are irredeemable, keep the focus on the ones leading them.

The NYT author needs to try getting out of his own bubble. Same editorial bullshit from late summer 2016 copied and pasted eight years later.

I’ve seen a fair number of Trumpers up close and personal. There’s a spectrum of all this - there are some halfway decent conservatives out there, and then there are batshit Magat cultists. I know how they are. The worst that our society has to offer. As someone else said upthread, I’m sorry Covid didn’t kill off more of them.

This is not a time for “understanding and reconciliation” and whatever other wishy-washy mumbo-jumbo some NYT soyboy (sorry…can’t help it in this case) says. When the enemy is on the ground flailing in agony - you don’t help them back up. You pull out your knife and plunge it into your enemy’s throat. Why is that so hard to understand for the editorial board retards at places like the New York Times? I want to relish the day this deranged right-winger Trumpist cult draws its final agonizing breath. Fuck them, fuck their feelings, fuck their whole fetid existence. Let them die. Right-winger trash like these do not get a free allotment of “understanding and compassion.” What the fuck do the editorial boards think this is - a fucking summer retreat in the woods?

Hell no, here’s a preferable option to give Trumpers and a fair number of right-wingers in general: “Slit your wrists, hang yourselves, or put a pistol down your throat and pull the trigger, you contemptible rat bastard filth. Fuck off and die in agony knowing that the rest of us will be better off with your corpses rotting at the sewer grates and being pissed on by stray dogs. For once in your fetid existences, do the right thing. Die.”

The only thing I’m sorry about is that far more Capitol rioters didn’t end up the same way as that traitor cunt Ashli Babbitt.

And nothing like of value will have been lost.

R51, About that "Republican Party origin" thing:

Which Party IN THIS CENTURY, parades with, waves, wears, and otherwise celebrates the CONFEDERATE FLAG of TREASON?!

Which Party's Presidential candidate bemoaned the fact that we don't talk in glowing terms anymore of Robert E. Lee?

Which Party wants to retain statues and namesakes commemorating Confederate traitors?

Oh they are who they are: deplorable. Most never voted before 2016, totally ignorant (which is why they are unaware that it was the Obama economy Trump took credit for). But they fell for flim-flam trickster Trump's latest scam. They're the same people dumping their meager earnings into lottery tickets or casino slots.

When Turd, Melontits and the Tard flee the country to avoid prosecution- they'll forever look like the fools they were.

R107, I thought I was too old to fall in love, but your post has me head over heels! 😉👠 Bring back pikes!

MAGAts aren't some misunderstood rebels without a cause; their cause is their god Trump, their declarations of being Christian notwithstanding. We understand them ALL TOO WELL.

If Trump loses, he could do worse for himself than start a MAGA Mega-Ministry. He'd rake in the fools' money.

A dogmatic Democrat told me thirty years ago that in his opinion Republican voters were either dupes or dicks. He has been proved correct.

Kristoff was a neocon and his morally degraded and should not be listened to. Trump voters need to be called evil and worthless to their faces.

It doesn't matter if you are a good person in your private life, and in a helping profession or something: if in your voting life you just want to watch the world burn - ie vote Trump - than you are evil, period.

R112 - I don't think Kristoff was ever a neocon. He has a very impressive journalistic resume about human rights abuses.

Just many of his points in this article are so self-serving and he can't see his own bias and privilege. He grew up in this town - but although it's technically rural, it's 30 miles from Portland. I would call that more on the ends of a metro area than truly rural. If you can get to the big city in 45 minutes - where jobs, healthcare and other items are available - you're not really talking about isolated rural people with no options or way into the economy the past 3 decades.

Second, he grew up there in that small town. A lot of the people he is talking about he has known his whole life. He's the success story of moving away and going to great schools - and living in Scarsdale, NY with his Goldman Sachs banker wife. He only recently sold his house a couple years ago in Scarsdale but still goes back to NYC for a week or two every couple of months. People you've grown up with in a small town will of course still talk to you and open up. But liberal strangers? Good fucking luck dude.

He also says that Democrats have become a party of looking down on the working class? WHAT? No - The Dem party has been supportive of worker's rights and wages for a century. It's looking down on these mean-spirited ASSHOLES who want to make the libs cry - those are the jerks we're looking down on.

He's being willfully dishonest in this probably required puff piece he had to put out this week. How about this - how about writing to Republicans and saying THEY need to listen more to US?

How THEY should stop the 'cry more libs' bullshit because it's alienating and stopping discussion? Nick fucked up big time with this stupid rant.

Just go to Boca Raton, or West Palm Beach, or Delrey FL and you'll see more Rich Trumpers than you'll ever want to see. I stated it before,even though I got my head cut off for it, there are even a good number more of wealthy Jews who are considering Trump, given the current administrations slow condemnation of what was going on on college campuses. But no one wanted to believe me. All those ugly duck-lipped custy old women down at Mar-a-lago aren't poor hill country people.

Kristoff was never a neocon.

Mel Brooks was right. Making Nazis a laughing stock is the best offense. Plus they suck at humor so it makes it even easier to point and laugh at them even more

The New York Times really wants this election. I’ve never seen them like this

[quote]I think his premise that liberals can “win over” Trump voters is misguided. They are lost until they snap out of it. If they ever do.

EXACTLY. If we were talking about the run-up to the election to choose Trump or Clinton, Kristoff MIGHT have a point. But anyone who would consider voting for Trump at this point in time, after all that he has said and done, is beyond reasoning and also amoral. And that holds true whether they are a "disadvantaged, working-class American" in the Midwest or a rich, elite person living in New York City

The silver linging in all of this is that Trump is 78 years old and he IS the party. There is no one who can sell his brand of crazy better than him, no one coming from behind that will fill the void once he is gone. He is truly one of a kind - thank god. And maybe when he is gone, we'll be on to something else, but the fever dream of this nightmare will be broken.

I hope you are right, r120. I see a number of wannabe heirs, but none with his “charisma.”

Someone once wisely said about the huge proliferation of Republican Chickenhawks in congress: No one who was actually ever in a war would so fervently push others into one.

R121 - the entire party is full of grifters and liars - they will still be here. The ONE thing though they've learned from Trump is that you have to control your message.

They can be all of that - but tighter in delivery and give no interviews or chances to be corrected.

One thing we've learned from the past 30 years - Republicans will not course-correct or accept fault/defeat or that they are/were wrong.

We have lifetime enemies - the suspicion has been confirmed. There's no being moderate on this issue - Republicans are not trustworthy and will stab everyone in the back who isn't part of their base.

Tell you what, Mr. Kristoff, you get Trump and Vance and all their little MAGAt friends to go a week without being complete fucking assholes, and we'll take your request seriously. Mmmmkay?

[quote] The silver linging in all of this is that Trump is 78 years old and he IS the party.

Silver lining indeed!

And then there's this shit:

[quote] Then her resolve strengthens when she hears liberals mock her faith — it was an evangelical church that helped her overcome homelessness — or deride her as “deplorable.”

Tell me a time when Joe Biden, or Kamala Harris, or Tim Walz or any top Democrat has said it's stupid to be Christian, or Evangelical, or have faith, or people who do are deplorables just by that fact alone.

I can say that, and do, and in many cases I'm right. But tell me how the Democratic Party itself and its leadership are demeaning this woman in Kristoff's story, and be fucking specific you asshole. (There, I even get to insult Kristoff without somehow speaking for the entire Democratic Party. See how that works, bitch?)

So sick of this shit, that every single liberal and every single Harris supporter has to be constantly walking on eggshells, terrified that some wingnut will "take offense," while every single one of them gets to lie and cheat and cunt to their heart's content, knowing that liberals are just supposed to accept that as the "national dialogue." Fuck that noise, and fuck you Kristoff.

No, see Trump's supporters have made it clear that feelings are to be fucked.

Of course it's a lie. What was she homeless for two days? Evangelicals are NOT out helping the homeless.

I'm reminded of a bigot back twenty years ago who said it was only right for her to hate gays because her daughter had AIDS, infected by her faithless husband. It was all a lie. Her daughter was a 400 pound cow who never had a boyfrirend and certainly never had AIDS. These people will say ANYTHING at all.

Another claimed her daughter was shouted down at Mills by classmates for using normal gender pronouns. Again a lie, but even if it had been true, Mills was for rich kids whose ideas of what is "left" are not genuine.

You have to understand these right-wing people lie all the time about everything.

R130 - well they read about something like that on Facebook, and I believe it!

"Mocking her faith" means to a MAGAt being for Equal Rights, being pro-Choice, being against tax monies going to private schools, being for Separation of Church and State, etc. It means, in essence, being a Liberal Democrat. Elmer Gantry would love her.

Someone has discovered that Trump's latest rallies are in historically racist towns. The NYT probably won't follow up. *sarcasm*

I cannot recommend highly enough the YouTube interviews with the MAGAts who attend. There are dishearteningly many of complete idiots, of deluded beyond even Trump's imagination.

Kristoff is ignorant.

Here is something important to bring up to your MAGA friends and acquaintances. Be gentle. But ask them, if they're so convinced that elections are rigged and stolen, then why bother to vote? Really. I would do everything in my power to sympathetically encourage them to stay home.

They demean themselves quite well. Us piling on isn't going to do a thing.

1939, Munich: "It's important to engage these disaffected good Germans, left behind economically by the punitive Treaty of Versailles. To disparage or demean them, to call them 'racists and bigots,' will not work to turn them away from their leader."

My husband's cousin is magat and I couldn't have one conversation with her without being called a libtard. All of the Democrats I know are quiet and keep their opinions to themselves unless asked, of course. I've found out who is deplorable simply through having conversations that go beyond the weather. I'm supposed to respect and understand people who have a huge chip on their shoulder and are so deluded that they ignore the character and many crimes of Trump? No, I will not. If they were regular Reagan/Bush Republicans, sure I'll leave them be. Trumpism is beyond the pale. I will NOT reign in my disgust and hatred of them. Why am I responsible for their low information/right wing brainwashing? Also, there are PLENTY of rich deplorables. They're not all economically insecure.

My MAGA cousin will not allow any political discussions at all. Neither pro nor con. She says it's all too complicated and she refuses to watch the news orv read anything that may enlighten her. She has new baby grandchildren. I asked how she will feel sending them to school for active shooter drills when they are six? I asked her how she would feel if her daughter who just had a miscarriage, was arrested and charged with a crime and had all her medical records exposed to determine whether or not she actually had a miscarriage. She says "Oh, like that's ever gonna happen!" I just shook my head and walked away. No logic to it. They're nuts.

Greedy and/or Gullible. That's the Trump voter.

The Gullible go to rallies; buy/wear/decorate with Trump crap; and hate facts, because they know so few.

Indeed, Persuasion Through Facts is what will get a MAGAt riled at you faster than a speeding bullet, because he or she has never, ever learned facts, cannot retain facts, cannot discern facts. They do not know, literally, what it means for something to be a "fact." They just know YOU are now making them feel as stupid as they are, something Trump does not do, for after every lie and every fabrication he will say, "You know that, right?" See? THEY'RE SMART. NOT LIKE EVERYONE SAYS....LIKE DUMB. WITH TRUMP THEY'RE NOT STEPPED OVER. THEY'RE SMART, AND THEY WANT RESPECT.

I've been listening to a podcast about how the press handled the rise of fascism r135, and pathetically that IS the attitude a lot of them took, even Jewish-owned newspapers for fuck's sake, both inside and outside Germany! There was this attitude for the "mainstream" press like the New York Times, that the REAL story wasn't the thuggishness and nastiness of the Nazis, it was the economic "reasons" for it all. Sadly, that has always been a weakness of many liberals, that everyone is essentially just an economic unit, responding to various pressures and if we all just show a little compassion we can reach them. Sorry, in some cases it ain't the economy, stupid, it's a ton of nasty horrible shit that is driving some people. Some people just really, really like being assholes.

[quote]Here is something important to bring up to your MAGA friends and acquaintances. Be gentle. But ask them, if they're so convinced that elections are rigged and stolen, then why bother to vote? Really.

I've found that asking MAGA family and friends to apply logic is a fool's errand.

R110, thank you, thank you. It’s nice being able to express my raw and uncensored thoughts about this somewhere. The pearl-clutching drips on Reddit or Facebook would ban me in an instant.

Oh this is nice. Surely, this is a response to an article in the NY post exhorting Trump voters to be understanding of Harris supporters. Perhaps try to look at issues through our eyes, a reach across the aisle kind of thing? Let's keep things civil and stop the name calling. Rght?

Trump created the permission structure and it was normalized by the media, that allows the hate and vitriol and violence directed at us and other marginalized groups in this country. Fuck them.

Do you sense a pattern?

[quote] Here is something important to bring up to your MAGA friends and acquaintances. Be gentle. But ask them, if they're so convinced that elections are rigged and stolen, then why bother to vote? Really.

Actually, the better question for them would be: “So why do you think I, your liberal acquaintance/family/whatever, feel the need to vote?”

R145 Shut the fuck up. Elections are only stolen when repubs lose or when dims in Florida attempt to recount the votes. It’s un-American to recount votes. Goddam commie.

R146, Amen, Dee!

When he is re-elected, President Trump (he's President now, of course, but he can't do much while he's working on revealing the Damnocrat traitors of the Deep State pedophile network) will make it un-American to vote.

I'm good with that, because I trust Trump to rule America as a vessel of Our Lord Jesus Christ, Who gave us two genders and two pronouns, just like the animals on Noah's Ark.

I guess Mr. Kristoff has chosen to ignore the hostility Trump supporters have for the media, especially any outlet seen as liberal/progressive. If Trump wins, its only a matter of time before a journalist publishes an article that the now emboldened MAGA mob deems "too crtitical" or "fake news" and then comes the hate speech, death threats and intimidation. That "let's be nice" and "can't we all just get along" bullshit will go out the window when press freedom is curtailed. And we all need to remember those who attempted to normalize Trump and his followers as if this was still pre-2016 America, rather than recognizing the consequences of enabling people who would gladly shit on the constitution and basic rights for the whims of one man. So fuck him, his rabid supporters and anyone else coddling them or downplaying their threat they pose.

[quote]I've found that asking MAGA family and friends to apply logic is a fool's errand.

Exactly. MAGA is a religion, with a vengeful god who triggers the libs more than any other person alive at its center. When was the last time you reasoned someone out of their religious belief? There's no logic here, it's all affect, all the time.

The media doesn't seem to be concerned about the fact that if the Neo Fascists get in, t hey will censor, suppress and arrest. But then I think about it and maybe they aren't concerned because the fascist take over is already happening..

Some of the media are very concerned. Those of you complaining about “the media” being pro-Trump or indifferent sound just like the MAGAs.

Why do you think they created a belief in “fake news?”

They didn't "create a belief in fake news" it has always been a part of our dialogue in this country since before the Lindbergh baby was kidnapped. I will keep complaining about the Media. The Legacy Media, the corporate Media WTF ever you want to call it. the plain facts are glaringly obvious. The lack of balance, the lack of context, the misleading dishonest fact free bullshit they get away with has more and more people walking away from the "mainstream media." They have marginalized themselves. They let Trump get away with anything he wants. They have legitimized the candidacy of a convicted felon and adjudicated rapist. They bullied Biden relentlessly. They assign no such scrutiny to Trump. They are pushing the Putin/Fascist line. Wake the fuck up.

Trump and MAGA used “fake news” as a means of discrediting accurate reporting and conditioning his supporters not to believe anything critical of him. Whether they originated the phrase or resuscitated it is not the point

When they act like this, it's hard not to disparage them

Trump's appeal is based on the idea that God has blessed him with wealth and that if you support him maybe God will bless you with wealth. It's the religion of people with half a brain, nothing else. You'd think that with all his bankruptcy and his business incompetence people would wake up, but such people aren't smart enouugh to wake up. And he pretends to hate "liberal billionares" but of course doesn't name any.

Small town people have to get over their feeling of moral superiority to city people. It's wrong and they are vicious small-minded animals, more like livestock than people. That said, Trump's base is not small town proles but the courthouse crowd and arrogant segregated suburbanites. The idea of anybody in a small town thinking Trump cares about them is ridiculous. The idea that he will bring about the end of the world for the Second Coming is also ridiculous. Tonight I was coming home and a pickup truck with American flags and a Trump sticker pulled out of a driveway in my lane, forcing me to stop. It then sat there even though the lane next to mine was also free. I figured she wanted the third lane, which had cars in it but wasn't entirely blocked. So after about thirty seconds I I gave the lady the finger and she gave me the finger, and we sat there for a full two minutes until a car in the next lane also stopped. Then she pulled out and traveled half in both of our lanes before suddenly turning right at the next intersection. These rage-filled lunatics are scum: each and every last one of them wiht a giant sense of entitlement and a rabid hatred of ANYBODY else.

During her vice presidential tenure her staff had a 92% turnover rate. She as a prosecutor made San Francisco the city that DL has constantly praised! The dem nominee is a horrible joke. Better than Dump but that's a bar as low as it fucking gets. How she's just the thing shows how very very stupid Dems have become.

R157, do you wash your hands after using a public urinal?

R157,do you ever get “SSSS” on your airplane boarding pass?

One final question, R157: Who's the most annoying basic bitch appearing on the big (or small) screen today ?

r157, is Julie your best friend?

[quote]What an odd graphic to accompany the article.

If I ever see somebody wearing that necklace, I'm going to demean the fuck out of them.

Poor R157. A child left behind.

For R157: Какой рецепт пельменей самый вкусный?

Thanks to Mammella now billions will go to criminals who never paid into a fucking thing in their lives when states are cutting services by the billions and all the very very stupid Mammellites think this is fine and dandy. They and you have all had political ideology lobotomies.

Not one of their lying preductions about Biden came true. And yet they are doubling down on bad predictions. Republicans don't have a brain in their heads. Most dogs have more sense than a typical republican.

Harris leading 58-25 among voteors making less than 20K.

It's well to do old farts voting aginast oscial security and "godless" Democrats. They don't care that Trump wanted them to drink bleach for covid. THey don't care that Trump ran up $5 trillion in debt. They don't care that the country is being rapidly reduced to third world status by republican criminals. THey got theirs and they are determined nobody else will. They are despicable and evil to a person.

We should demean Trump voters. They deserve it for putting our democracy at risk. Plus they're weird and vindictive. We don't put other cults on a pedestal; why start now?

[quote] And everybody else deserves to reach for that. But new Democrats like Kamala Harris will not allow the freedom to reach that level.

What is your support for this astonishing statement?

[quote]That’s critical counsel because too often since 2016, the liberal impulse has been to demonize anyone at all sympathetic to Donald Trump as a racist and bigot. This has been politically foolish, for it’s difficult to win votes from people you’re disparaging.

Author is being waaaaay disingenuous. We know that there's no way to "win" their votes.

When will people wake the fuck up with this "political" bullshit?! When your leader, and his appointees and supporters, are openly racist, misogynistic, homophobes, that is NOT A DIFFERENCE IN "POLITICAL VIEWS" OR "OPINION". It is an extreme difference in human values and morals. Also, playing nice with racists is disgusting. To literally believe that one race is superior and should subjugate racial minority groups? We left that kind of moral failure BACK IN THE LAST MILLENNIUM.

As Germans would say: if there’s a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.

It's astonishing what a sorry bunch of writers the nation's most prominent newspaper employs for its opinion section.

Over and over we've been told to listen to MAGAs and try to understand their grievances; that that have legitimate complaints about the economy that we should respect: it's harder and harder to achieve what their parents did, etc.

Yeah, everybody complains about that. But if you want to change that you vote for Democrats who work for organized labor, corporate responsibility, higher minimum wage, stronger social safety nets, etc. MAGAs vote for Republicans, who are for the opposite! They vote for trickle-down economics and lower wages every time. Why should we respect those choices? When we try to lay it out to them, we get irrelevancies thrown back at us.

All too often it seems their only solution to economic decline is racial and sexual discrimination: close the border, do away with affirmative action. Sorry, MAGAs, even if you're white and male the Republicans will still screw you.

The Media Still Needs Training On How To Deal With A Powerful Black Woman

What kind of condescending garbage is this? First she's half Asian, a quarter Irish and a quarter Jamaican. She's a woman of color but why is she labeled as black? Why is she labeled even as a woman? That shows you the racism and the misogyny of the extreme left which has taken over like a horrible plague. Like the idiot extreme leftist who said JD Vance wanted the world filled with white children! Despite JD's idiocies this person didn't even know all his children are biracial!

Then powerful is another question. She's certainly ruthlessly ambitious but that does not necessarily mean powerful, thoughtful and smart. In fact I'd put her in the aggressive dimwit category.

R92 what where they chanting n Charlottesville, troll?

^with torches fire 🔥 like in Frankenstein

Have you met a Trump supporter, r174, maybe a politician, farmer, businessman, or another species of Right-Winger?

Because THEY are the racists. (Hint: Birther. Hint: Border Family Separations. Hint: Threatened Camps and Deportation. Hint: Black Jobs.)

THEY are the misogynists. (Hint: Anti-Choice. Hint: JD Vance.)

Moreover, you seem to ignore a common meaning of "powerful." A Vice-President of the United States running to become President on HER terms, HER advocacies, HER abilities, is in a position of power. If elected, she will form HER Cabinet. Power.

In fact, if you would switch out the pronouns in your last paragraph to masculine, you are exactly describing Trump.

[quote]MAGA is still pissed over losing the Civil War.

[quote]The Republican Party was formed because there was no party that opposed slavery. In the mid-1960s, several key laws (Civil Rights Act of 1964, Voting Rights Act of 1965) almost didn't pass because so many Democrats voted against it.

I would say both of those statements can be true, and both the Republican and Democratic parties have changed greatly over the decades.

People are very angry about inflation and the billions spent on criminal illegal immigrants. Hey how about trying the legal way? Of course it takes too long and you don't get all the financial perks and sympathy.

Another stupid Kamela remark. We need to recover from the last 10 years. Hey you clown Dems were in power for more than half of those 10 years! How can one person be so stupid and not know recent history. She acts like she had absolutely nothing to do with the last four years. Distance yourself from Biden! Nice very obvious trick which the whole world can see.

To say Trump would be worse which is true still is damning with faint praise.

[quote]Another stupid Kamela remark. We need to recover from the last 10 years. Hey you clown Dems were in power for more than half of those 10 years!

If you think the Dems were "in power" for that long, you're the one who's making stupid remarks.

Were you born stupid, R179, or did you have to attend a special school to learn to become so ignorant?

I'm very unhappy about the immigrant situation, but I'm still a staunch Democrat because I'm able to prioritize, which apparently you are not.

"Billions" are not being spent on illegal immigrants, but again, where did this problem begin> Could it be during GWB's first term, when 11 million people invaded the country and not one employer was prosecuted? Repatriations were up under Obama. The right creates a problem, and then they blame it on the left. This has been the story for 20 years.

And of course a bipartisan broder bill was ready to implement but Republicans backed out after Trump told them to because he wanted to run on immigration and solving the problem would not be useful to him. How can you support such a man?

By definition, trump supporters have so completely demeaned themselves , that any attempt to further demean them is arguably impossible. You can't get 11 ounces of water in a 10 ounce glass. That's one reason you shouldn't listen to Nick Kristoff on this issue.

The other reason that this "Neville Chamberlaineque" approach Kristoff is advocating is so dangerous has to do with the viral nature of grievance politics and the fact that weak-minded people often harbour grievances that are stronger than their capacity to resolve them.

Profiteering con men like Trump strongly appeal to these weak minded/strong grievance types of people because they know that grievance is a powerful motivating mechanism if you can assign fault to an outside factor ( democracy, immigrants etc) and affirm they have been mistreated, not misguided, you will create a cult of personality impervious to any test of facts or competence in the "leader" exploiting them. It's the only gift this trump creature has.

So that's why whe shouldn't demean ourselves by listening to Nick Kristoff on this issue

R179, have another shot of vodka. You sound triggered. Things not going well for your Trumpian overlords?

I have people in my family who are Trumpers. Cousins. And they are totally ignorant when it comes to politics. They do not even see the relationship between public policies and their lives. We have tried to be reasonable with them, non accusatory or argumentative. I've gotten "granular" describing how a specific policy helps or harms. But they refuse to accept it. One of them works for a mere pittance at some sys glass factory, and makes minimum wage, and get food stamps, and she is filled with grievances about co-workers ( "the Blacks" who "constantly get away with things and refuse to work, they're so lazy!" ). I get exhausted trying to be reasonable. So I did something bad. I agreed with her and told her it's very discouraging and I had to wonder why people even bother to vote. If the voting is so rigged and corru0pt, why bother, right? I hope it works.

^^Trump can claim he's not racist, but racists flock to him like moths to a flame.