Well, damn, if that isn't the face of poetic justice, I don't know what is. Congratulations to Algeria's Imane Khelif on winning GOLD at the Olympics. What an incredible story. So amazing to see her triumph over the bigots and the Far Right trolls trying to hijack HER story for their demented obsession with a tiny percentage of the population.
LADIES (and gentlemen), Olympic GOLD Medalist Imane Khelif đ„
by Anonymous | reply 83 | August 12, 2024 11:02 PM |
"Khelif was born female but reportedly has XY chromosomes."
Oops, a loophole.
by Anonymous | reply 1 | August 10, 2024 12:27 AM |
Thatâs a man, baby.
by Anonymous | reply 2 | August 10, 2024 12:29 AM |
He's a cheat.
by Anonymous | reply 3 | August 10, 2024 12:29 AM |
Does this mean I can compete in 2028?
by Anonymous | reply 4 | August 10, 2024 12:35 AM |
Well, I've seen "rescue chick's" signature before, but I wasn't a follower so didn't realize she was a Fox News-talking-point-spewing pile of garbage. Anyway, by the time Imane and I are Rescue Chick's age, she will just be dust.
by Anonymous | reply 5 | August 10, 2024 12:43 AM |
jasper hit man
by Anonymous | reply 6 | August 10, 2024 12:49 AM |
So they both have XY chromosomes and are therefore male, r5?
by Anonymous | reply 7 | August 10, 2024 12:50 AM |
R7, yes, they both have XY chromosomes and are male. This gives them a remarkable advantage in a sport like boxing, since men have superior upper-body strength.
by Anonymous | reply 8 | August 10, 2024 12:55 AM |
Heâs male. 5ARD 46 XY. May have been raised as a girl due to underdeveloped genitalia. He went through a male puberty.
Not swyers syndrome either. Swyers women have no ovaries or testicular and have to have medically induced puberty. Also women with swyers have bone density issues which would be a no go in boxing
by Anonymous | reply 9 | August 10, 2024 12:57 AM |
Having DSD is not the same as being transgender. And fuck the right wing misogynists who suddenly care for womenâs sports. However, having DSD, internal testes, XY chromosomes should be disqualifiers. I do feel for those raised female in poor countries who didnât know they had a condition until they reached a certain level and raised suspicion. Sucks for them. But they do not belong in any womenâs sport and certainly not in boxing. Anyone pretending that a male puberty doesnât give an insurmountable advantage in sport is not being honest with themselves.
by Anonymous | reply 10 | August 10, 2024 12:59 AM |
XY = Male. The chromosomes donât lie.
by Anonymous | reply 11 | August 10, 2024 1:04 AM |
These are such garbage arguments that are ONLY motivated by Far Right nonsense. She is a woman. And, frankly, any genetic advantage she had didn't always serve her -- she was a prior 9th place finisher.
I'm constantly shocked at how many gay men and women on this board align themselves with the Far Right. Oprah was right about... you know.. tick-tock.
by Anonymous | reply 12 | August 10, 2024 1:12 AM |
[quote]Mokgadi Caster Semenya OIB (born 7 January 1991) is a South African middle-distance runner and winner of two Olympic gold medals[4] and three World Championships in the women's 800 metres
[quote]Following Semenya's victory at the 2009 World Championships, she was made to undergo sex testing, and cleared to return to competition the following year. The decision to perform sex testing sparked controversy in the sporting world and in Semenya's home country of South Africa. Later reports disclosed that Semenya has the intersex condition 5α-Reductase 2 deficiency and natural testosterone levels in the typical male range.
[quote]Semenya has said that she was born with a vagina and internal undescended testes, but that she has no uterus or fallopian tubes and does not menstruate. Her internal testes produce natural testosterone levels in the typical male range. Semenya has rejected the label of "intersex", calling herself "a different kind of woman."
All of sports is fundamentally about some people being born with physical attributes which make them "better" at that sport. Tall people have natural advantages in volleyball, rowing, and basketball, but fail miserably at gynmastics.
Semenya is probably an extreme example. She was actually medically tested and determined to have been a woman. Her physical advantages are not the product of intervention other than what any other athlete has access to.
Khelif - who knows.
But, rather than automatically defending or attacking, real policies should be enacted.
by Anonymous | reply 13 | August 10, 2024 1:12 AM |
Michael Phelps won the genetic lottery, and, arguably, had an unfair genetic advantage over his competitors, but that doesn't fit into the Anti-trans loons' narrative, so no one cares.
by Anonymous | reply 14 | August 10, 2024 1:16 AM |
Youâre a liar R12/13/14.
Semenya is a male thatâs been proven. His DSD condition on affects MALES. He has no vagina he has underdeveloped genitalia and internal testes.
The Phelps argument is stupid. He competed in his correct sex class, his records have been broken multiple times and if a girl had the similar advantages that Phelps had, she still wouldnât beat any male that was on her level.
This is Semenyas condition.
by Anonymous | reply 15 | August 10, 2024 1:29 AM |
R13 Semenya fathered 2 children. She had working internal tested that put her through a male puberty. Thatâs beyond the natural advantage of height. In boxing itâs even worse. The body composition of a 150lb woman is different than that of a man. A woman can never have the same musculature at the same weight. Thatâs not to mention the larger lungs and heart. The denser bones. The much greater upper body strength.
by Anonymous | reply 16 | August 10, 2024 1:30 AM |
The delicate question is, "Who's going to play Imane in the made for tv movie?" Does the role go to a woman or man?
by Anonymous | reply 17 | August 10, 2024 1:38 AM |
Iâm a big boxing fan. My uncle has a gym. Katie Taylor is #4 in my list of all time great boxers. Sheâs a stunning fighter. She was instrumental is getting womenâs boxing into the Olympics. It took years to get paid her due and itâs still a pittance compared to the men. If she ever faced an XY fighter she would lose 9/10. Which means no money, no sponsorship, no belts, no career. As much as I loathe the right wingers (who used to laugh at womenâs boxing, boo during fights and try to get it banned) using it to further their cause, Iâm equally annoyed at so called progressives lying. I donât believe that a single one would look me in the eye and say they would let their sister/daughter into the ring with an XY fighter who had a male puberty.
by Anonymous | reply 18 | August 10, 2024 1:41 AM |
World's greatest woman beater in his weight class
by Anonymous | reply 19 | August 10, 2024 1:42 AM |
She looks pretty when she can put on makeup to cover her five o'clock shadow.
by Anonymous | reply 20 | August 10, 2024 1:53 AM |
XY is not a woman. Self defined gender is not a valid argument. Human rights to all. Women only in sports where women only want to compete with other women.
by Anonymous | reply 21 | August 10, 2024 1:56 AM |
Whatever whatever. I think that the females should refuse to box them. Any time a trans wants to dominate females in competition ( and itâs always males) say no. Make a big stink about it. These things donât wander off by themselves. Make them unwelcome. God knows THEY never feel I comfortable. Why canât they box agains men? Fuck them.
by Anonymous | reply 22 | August 10, 2024 2:13 AM |
God, I'm starting to wonder if Muriel is actually Rupert Murdoch. I can't wait until we have greater digital literacy and the Boomers have shuffled off this mortal coil.
by Anonymous | reply 23 | August 10, 2024 2:16 AM |
I'm left-leaning since birth, and I am uncomfortable with XY fighting XX. It's a common sense issue. The right-wingers have subsumed the issue into it's demonology playbook, but there's plenty of us normal folk who can see plain as day that it makes no sense to lump XY chromosome folk in with women in sports. This should never be allowed. How does this not compute for people?
by Anonymous | reply 24 | August 10, 2024 2:25 AM |
The women who were beaten by this person should be allowed to go to court where all relevant evidence is presented and if there has been fraud, then everyone responsible, including this person, be held accountable.
by Anonymous | reply 25 | August 10, 2024 2:27 AM |
[quote][R13] Semenya fathered 2 children. She had working internal tested that put her through a male puberty.
I hadn't found that information. Clearly, I was working off old information.
[quote]Thatâs beyond the natural advantage of height.
I concur and believe that Semenya should be stripped of Olympic and World titles.
But, my final position stands. They need to develop real policies that consider such situations and enforce them consistently. What we have now is not sustainable.
Is Semenya different from Ts? I don't know. But, there are doctors, researchers, and developmental scientists who would have valid opinions on the matter who should be consulted. This is a medical and scientific question in the same manner that doping and steroid use is and should NOT be a political matter for further the agenda of either side.
by Anonymous | reply 26 | August 10, 2024 2:29 AM |
Where is the evidence that this athlete has an xy chromosome? I thought the only info we had was from the discredited Russian panelâwhy are we assuming it is legit, given that the Olympic committee threw them out?
by Anonymous | reply 27 | August 10, 2024 2:41 AM |
I hope he accidentally bumps into a 6'5" dyke with anger issues and she kicks his ass into oblivion. Kick him in the nuts for good measure because he has them.
by Anonymous | reply 28 | August 10, 2024 2:49 AM |
Shoulders of a linebacker.
by Anonymous | reply 29 | August 10, 2024 2:51 AM |
[quote] I do feel for those raised female in poor countries who didnât know they had a condition until they reached a certain level and raised suspicion. Sucks for them.
The way people all over social media think that Algerians are a bunch of poorly educated yokels who have no idea about typical menstruation unlike enlightened Americans is hilarious.
by Anonymous | reply 30 | August 10, 2024 2:55 AM |
Itâs largely NOT the âfar-rightâ, in American terms, denouncing Imane. Itâs more nuanced. Much of the support for Imane has been driven by anti-colonial, anti-French sentiments throughout Africa and the Middle East. The most chauvinist, macho, Muslim guys you can imagine were her biggest cheerleaders.
[quote] I donât believe that a single one would look me in the eye and say they would let their sister/daughter into the ring with an XY fighter who had a male puberty.
My mother had to stop horseplaying football etc with my brothers and I once we were barely pubescent, age 11 or so. It was just too dangerous for her.
Itâs a fucking joke.
by Anonymous | reply 31 | August 10, 2024 3:01 AM |
Iâm glad that all the people who diagnosed her as transgender a week ago (without bothering to do a one-minute Google search to determine whether it was even possible to change sex in Algeria) now have access to the boxerâs genetic chart and have developed world class expertise in the implications of that genetic makeup. Bravo!
by Anonymous | reply 32 | August 10, 2024 3:04 AM |
R27, both boxers (Khelif and Lin) were disqualified from a major tournament last year in the grounds that tests showed them to have XY chromosomes. Apparently they had been tested twice, in 2022 and in 2023, with identical results. They did not pursue appeals of the disqualifications. Obviously, they would have had every incentive to do so.
by Anonymous | reply 33 | August 10, 2024 3:05 AM |
[quote] Semenya is probably an extreme example. She was actually medically tested and determined to have been a woman.
A woman with internal testes, no ovaries (the organs that produce estrogen) and masculine levels of testosterone? Huh.
Caster is intersex. It doesnât matter, really, whether she categorises herself as a woman or a man, she can identify however she wants. In athletic terms, she should not compete against women.
The same applies to someone with a DSD like Imane.
by Anonymous | reply 34 | August 10, 2024 3:12 AM |
[quote] Where is the evidence that this athlete has an xy chromosome? I thought the only info we had was from the discredited Russian panelâwhy are we assuming it is legit, given that the Olympic committee threw them out
Because the IOC has probably less credibility than a âdiscredited Russian panelâ, being one of if not the most corrupt international organisations - more than FIFA, more than the FIA. Ask yourself why all those Chinese athletes who tested positive to performance enhancing drugs were allowed to compete in Tokyo.
And because the IOC refuses to nip this in the bud by doing a sex test.
by Anonymous | reply 35 | August 10, 2024 3:18 AM |
I stand with rescue-chick.
by Anonymous | reply 36 | August 10, 2024 3:19 AM |
Trans activists were the ones claiming people were going after him as transgender. No people could see an obvious male. He was tested by two separate labs, one in India and one in turkey and it was the same result. Both labs are independent of any sports organization but are certified by the court of sports arbitration and the world anti doping association.
When the story started to break the IOC tried to frame it as an anti trans issue but reversed course and said it was a DSD issue.
You now have the head of the IOC lying to the press and claiming there are no scientific tests that can truly determine male or female. The IOC also said because it says female on his passport then he is female.
by Anonymous | reply 38 | August 10, 2024 4:43 AM |
I remember someone commenting about a video where you could clearly see he was arranging his junk. And no, we're not talking camel toe. If I find it, I'll post it.
by Anonymous | reply 39 | August 10, 2024 4:49 AM |
I wonder: does the WNBA do sex testing? Griner looks and sounds XY for sure. There may be a number of intersex males in womenâs sports already, but the ones with more feminine features donât stand out like Semenya, Khelif, and Griner do.
by Anonymous | reply 40 | August 10, 2024 5:12 AM |
I refuse to believe anyone here really gives a fuck about boxing, but if there's a chance to punch down, it'll always be taken with feverish excitement.
by Anonymous | reply 41 | August 10, 2024 4:28 PM |
You're right, I am not a big boxing fan. But I give a fuck about fairness, R41. Which is what we are really talking about, and you know this.
Are you suggesting that we simply abolish gender distinctions in sports? There is a reason that sporting competitions have been divided along gender lines from time immemorial. And that reason is the overwhelming and numerous biological advantages that men have against women.
Navigating these matters requires a great deal of sensitivity, but also we must follow where plain common sense and reason leads. XY = male advantage. It's not bigotry, it's not a lack of empathy, it's not cruelty. XY= male advantage. And if we are going to ignore that, we may as well start allowing men and women to compete in all Olympic competitions. Women will lose every competition, every time, for the rest of human history, of course. But at least you, R41, will be able to celebrate the JUSTICE of it all.
by Anonymous | reply 42 | August 10, 2024 4:58 PM |
[quote]I refuse to believe anyone here really gives a fuck about boxing
Only a simpleton would believe that this discussion is about "boxing" nor is it about punching down.
The question is a broader one of fairness and equity. Sports isn't just about grit and training. I could train for my entire life and I'm NEVER going to break 10 seconds in the 100m. I am never going to come close to being copetitive in the 100 Fly even at the D2 or D3 level, let alone Olympics. Some people are physically superior.
The question is where to draw the line on "physically" superior. You cannot erase biology - men are generally taller and stronger. Years ago Serena Williams noted that she wouldn't even be ranked within the top 100 men professionally at a time when she was dominant among women.
The issue here isn't boxing. It's about whether Khelif should be allowed to compete against women. Is it a natural physical superiority enhanced by training. Top-class male marathoners: 70â85 mL/kg/min. The average adult: 30â45 mL/kg/min. That is a natural advantage. Being born a man, but competing against women is not. Whether being XY should be addressed by international sporting authorities, not left to whichever side screams the loudest.
by Anonymous | reply 43 | August 10, 2024 5:06 PM |
It's about concern trolling.
by Anonymous | reply 44 | August 10, 2024 7:16 PM |
Do all of you Gender Police think Khelif should have competed with her shirt off, like a man?
I thought not.
by Anonymous | reply 45 | August 10, 2024 7:34 PM |
I notice that the Khelif critics here are much better informed about this issue and the Khelif defenders are mostly just relying on "you're anti-trans," "you're a right-winger," "you're just punching down," etc.
by Anonymous | reply 46 | August 10, 2024 7:44 PM |
R45 Good point.
Next they'll be saying some butch lesbians need to be investigated.
by Anonymous | reply 47 | August 10, 2024 7:44 PM |
R46 Sure if "better informed" means copying from a few right wing rags.
It's not anti trans, as Khelif isn't trans (not sure if they understand that, though).
Right winger, yes. Punching down, yes.
by Anonymous | reply 48 | August 10, 2024 7:46 PM |
I feel bad for the boxer, but itâs unfair for someone with a DSD to compete against XX women. As for right wing pundits who canât name a non-intersex female athlete in boxing to save their lives, their manufactured outrage over this (and other trivial crap like âthe war on Christmasâ), I canât complain because it serves as the playpen that keeps toddlers of the right occupied so that the adults on the left can work on more urgent social problems like housing, education, healthcare, etc.
by Anonymous | reply 49 | August 10, 2024 7:47 PM |
R49, womenâs rights are not some âplaypenâ thing, though.
by Anonymous | reply 50 | August 10, 2024 8:17 PM |
R50 If Project 2025 are elected, theyâll implement a national ban on abortion beginning at conception and diminish the voting power of âchildless cat ladies.â If Harris/Walz are elected, theyâll restore womenâs reproductive rights and protect their voting rights too. So if youâre American and care about womenâs rights, vote accordingly.
by Anonymous | reply 51 | August 10, 2024 8:27 PM |
No R48 plenty of people here know how DSD conditions work. 46 XY 5-ARD isnât a right wing talking point. Two tests in 2 years at 2 different labs that arenât connected to any sporting body had the same result.
by Anonymous | reply 52 | August 10, 2024 8:53 PM |
R51, Iâm not right-wing. Thereâs no way in HELL that I would vote for Trump, or any Republican candidate.
by Anonymous | reply 53 | August 10, 2024 9:35 PM |
I'll just leave this here. Perhaps his attorney should have chosen a less inciteful term than "online lynching." Oh well, now let's sit back and watch the real games begin.
by Anonymous | reply 54 | August 11, 2024 4:34 PM |
R54. There really is no limit to your vileness, is there? There is a legitimate debate to be had about gender transitions and about whether women with XY ( which no one knows with certainty she has) should compete against XX women, but you revel in demeaning her by calling her a man even though that is what she has never known herself to be just so you can indulge your taste for cruelty. Repugnant
by Anonymous | reply 55 | August 11, 2024 5:01 PM |
Can she fix a Subaru?
by Anonymous | reply 56 | August 11, 2024 5:26 PM |
âClean Sportâ must require that male athletes not be allowed to compete in a women only sporting event.
by Anonymous | reply 57 | August 11, 2024 5:41 PM |
R55, if you had bothered to read about this man or if you had bothered to even read the thread, you would know Khelif has XY chromosomes.
"Khelif was one of two boxers to fail a gender eligibility test ahead of the 2023 World Boxing Championships. Those competitions are sanctioned by the IBA, and it was the same group that administered the tests. The IBA said that these tests revealed that Khelif has XY chromosomes, which are most commonly found in males."
You may want to know some of the facts before you allow your incredibly low EQ to overrule whatever modicum of common sense you may possess.
"
by Anonymous | reply 58 | August 11, 2024 6:05 PM |
[quote]Can she fix a Subaru?
Sheâs not a lesbian, because itâs illegal to be gay in Algeria. Similar to how being trans is illegal in Algeria.
by Anonymous | reply 59 | August 11, 2024 6:44 PM |
Where is the evidence that Caster Semenya "fathered" two children? I only see that the couple has two children, one of them conceived through artificial insemination. (I didn't see anything specifically about how they got the second one.)
by Anonymous | reply 60 | August 11, 2024 7:21 PM |
R58. So you are comfortable not only outing yourself as a vicious bigot but also as a moron with the gullibility of a child? I may well have read as much on the topic as you, but I realize the fact that somebody has posted something on the internet does not necessarily make it true. You may want to keep that in mind next time you attempt to read. (As you know, it was also widely reported she was transgender which, was also stupid.) Yes, she was disqualified, but the reason for the disqualification was never confirmed, and is often assumed to have been a failed testosterone test, and not a genetic test.
I know that between your enormous stupidity and your unbelievable foulness, you have much ground for self-hatred, but could you consider treating that self-hatred by some other means than stigmatizing someone you assume is different based on what you assume to be an inborn difference. You are repugnant.
by Anonymous | reply 61 | August 11, 2024 7:40 PM |
As far as rumors go, that Semenya fathered children is implausible because itâs much easier to go to a sperm bank than to harvest semen from the internal testes of an intersex person. But I guess if someone is determined enough to be the biological parent, who knows. Like R60 said, itâs never been reported by the media that Semenya literally fathered her child.
by Anonymous | reply 62 | August 11, 2024 7:50 PM |
R61, your posts reveal more about you than they ever will about me.
Has it ever occurred to you that Mr. Khelif and his ilk are only pretending to be "whatever" because they cannot compete and win against other males?
Have a lovely day and please don't bother to respond. Such sensitive unhinged types such as yourself are always in danger of stroking out. How sad to become so agitated when confronted by innocuous posts on the internet. What does that say about you, dear?
by Anonymous | reply 63 | August 11, 2024 9:17 PM |
[quote]you are comfortable not only outing yourself as a vicious bigot but also as a moron with the gullibility of a child?
Settle down, Beavis.
by Anonymous | reply 64 | August 11, 2024 10:08 PM |
Itâs called DSD instead of intersex because of the connotation that someone is equal parts of both sexes. Semenya is male and his DSD condition has to do with the underdevelopment of his genitalia. Males with this condition can father children and donât have a female reproductive system.
Semenya hasnât confirmed or denied the children but confirmed he has internal testes.
by Anonymous | reply 65 | August 11, 2024 10:28 PM |
Khelifs trainer confirms XY chromosomes and high testosterone
by Anonymous | reply 66 | August 11, 2024 10:31 PM |
Documents in the case, including the two test results, are said to have been seen by at least one sports writer, so they are likely to become public.
by Anonymous | reply 67 | August 11, 2024 11:01 PM |
O shocker! The cheat is a liar too?!!?? đČ
by Anonymous | reply 68 | August 11, 2024 11:10 PM |
R63. Ah, I see. Her family hatched a plan from birth to pass their son off as a woman in the hope of giving their son an edge as a future boxer. This is brilliant! Why didnât this occur to me? Especially, given the precedent of the Obamaâs falsifying those sins birth certificate for a planned presidency.
I also realize now, despite what scientists say, a person with XY chromosomes can never grow up with female sex characteristics. I still think you are a reprehensible human being, but i do at least now recognise your intellectual brilliance. Do you teach? And in which subject? Science, history..?
by Anonymous | reply 69 | August 11, 2024 11:11 PM |
Are we even sure Khelif has a DSD? The male circumcision rate in Algeria is 98%. With a rate that high, surely there are some âslip-upsâ here and there. Just sayinâ.
by Anonymous | reply 70 | August 11, 2024 11:55 PM |
Nobody knows anything other than that she has been identified as female from birth, not transgender., and met the requirements to compete as a woman at the olympics. Whether she has any sexual abnormality, no one knows.
by Anonymous | reply 71 | August 12, 2024 12:41 AM |
[quote]Semenya hasnât confirmed or denied the children
Untrue. Semenya and wife have spoken to the press about using artificial insemination for at least the first one. I suppose they didn't bother saying it for the second one because it was just the same thing again.
by Anonymous | reply 72 | August 12, 2024 12:51 AM |
But they didnât say if it was casters semen r72.
by Anonymous | reply 73 | August 12, 2024 1:12 AM |
Unbelievable.
"A female boxer who trained with Imane Khelif has come forward to assert that Khelif 'is a man.'
Joana Nwamerue says the Algerian team tried to convince her that Khelif was simply a woman whose chromosomes had been altered by living in the mountains."
by Anonymous | reply 74 | August 12, 2024 9:58 PM |
Reduxx is ran by a mega homophobe - specifically anti gay men. I've had run-ins with her on Twitter. Heh.
by Anonymous | reply 75 | August 12, 2024 10:20 PM |
[quote]Joana Nwamerue says the Algerian team tried to convince her that Khelif was simply a woman whose chromosomes had been altered by living in the mountains.
Trans men will be flicking to those mountains now.
by Anonymous | reply 76 | August 12, 2024 10:42 PM |
^^flocking
by Anonymous | reply 77 | August 12, 2024 10:43 PM |
Imagine going to all the trouble of taking hormones and getting surgery when you could just go for a hike instead.
by Anonymous | reply 78 | August 12, 2024 10:46 PM |
Remember the part in âHeidiâ when she gets masculinized by the Alps and joins the Swiss bobsled team and wins gold? Itâs like that.
by Anonymous | reply 79 | August 12, 2024 10:52 PM |
R76 if they get their wish they'll also be flicking soon.
by Anonymous | reply 80 | August 12, 2024 10:54 PM |
No itâs not r76. Itâs a female/feminist issues page
by Anonymous | reply 81 | August 12, 2024 10:55 PM |
Where exactly are these Algerian mountains?
by Anonymous | reply 82 | August 12, 2024 10:58 PM |
Why respond to the "Imane Khelif is a women" troll, who has the intelligence of a gnat and the debating skills of a sloth.
by Anonymous | reply 83 | August 12, 2024 11:02 PM |